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BroncoSojia
11-26-2009, 04:40 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4691944


DENVER -- Josh McDaniels' trash talk is the talk of the league.

The Denver Broncos' brash -- some would say cocky -- coach exchanged taunts with a group of San Diego Chargers linebackers during warmups Sunday, at one point telling them, "We own you!"

Then, he watched those very players lead the Chargers' 32-3 beatdown that knocked Denver out of first place in the AFC West.

His words reverberated across the NFL, with fellow coaches saying they had never heard of this happening before and at least one star player suggesting they should be allowed to fight back with fists and not just their mouths when taunted by an opposing coach.

According to players who were either involved in the heated exchange or who witnessed it, the main target of the 33-year-old McDaniels' taunting was outside linebacker Shaun Phillips, whose sack and strip of Chris Simms on his first dropback set the early tone for San Diego's statement victory.

"As a coach, I hope he has that mindset, but to say you own us? You beat us one time," said Phillips, who is five years younger than McDaniels. "How much has he really done in this league? He had a team 6-0 and now he's looking up at us in second place."

Denver rookie safety David Bruton said he didn't see anything wrong with his coach jawing with the opponent.

"It shows that he cares and is fighting for his team," he said. "Our coach is an emotional coach, he is a very fiery coach. He has a lot of passion for the game and for the Broncos. What he did wasn't Woody Hayes. Hayes would reach up and hit you on the side of the head."

Which is what Pittsburgh Steelers safety Ryan Clark suggested players should be allowed to do when coaches taunt players from the other team.

"Honestly, my thought on that is, I would like to petition Mr. (Roger) Goodell and say, if a coach can talk to me like that, I should be able to fight him," Clark said. "I don't know where he's from, but where I'm from, when somebody talks to you like that, they've got a problem with you. And we should be able to fight

"If a player talks that way, you get to hit him. When a coach talks that way, you don't really get to strike back. Who wants to have verbal jabs with a coach? That's no fun. Let's fight."

Earlier this month, Goodell, the league's commissioner, fined Tennessee Titans owner Bud Adams $250,000 for making obscene hand gestures at Buffalo Bills fans.

But McDaniels' trash talk won't cost him anything in fines.

"No, it's not anything we are reviewing," league spokesman Greg Aiello told The Associated Press.

Penalty or not, Tennessee Titans linebacker Keith Bullock said coaches have no right to razz opposing players.

"The coach had his opportunity when he was younger to have his time out there and obviously it's over," Bullock said.

As if taking a cue from their coach, the Broncos let their emotions get the best of them Sunday, unraveling with silly penalties and sideline spats in a reversal of their 34-23 win at San Diego a month earlier.

After taking the league by storm with six straight wins, including one over his mentor, New England's Bill Belichick, after which he did his best Tiger Woods' fist-pump over and over, McDaniels finds himself trying to straighten out a team that's lost four straight heading into the Thanksgiving night game against the New York Giants (6-4).

He acknowledged his team lost its poise last week but he declined to discuss his own pregame chatter with the Chargers. After the game, he told the Denver Post that he didn't want to make an issue out of it and, besides, he said, they started it.

Denver defensive end Vonnie Holliday gave a passionate defense of his coach this week only seconds after ripping on his teammates for all their "jaw-jacking" during the game.

"The thing about Josh is that he's a very competitive guy, too. He's right there in that fire with us. When we go out on that field, he's right in it with us. Emotionally, he's as charged as we are, and as a player you love that in your coach," Holliday said.

"I think that's great that as a coach he can do that. I'm sure it's probably frowned upon or somebody's going to say something bad about it. But as a player, I didn't know that had happened, but I wish I had seen it. It might have gotten me going a little more."

Broncos fullback Peyton Hillis said, "I don't think it's any different from a player going up against another player. Before the game and during the game you are enemies. At the end of the day, the coaches aren't going to shy away from an opponent."

Coaches have been known to crack an occasional quick joke with opponents before a game, but they usually don't put themselves in position to get razzed by a rival. And if they do find themselves targeted by taunts, they tend to walk away and let their players handle things themselves on the field rather than provide any more motivation for the competition.

Cleveland Browns coach Eric Mangini said he couldn't recall a coach ever getting into it with opposing players during warmups, "and even if that was the case, you have a game to play, so you just focus on that."

Some coaches said the bigger issue is when players spill onto the opposing sideline during play, which can lead to scuffles like the one earlier this month involving Washington cornerback DeAngelo Hall and members of his former team, the Atlanta Falcons.

"The referees are great at running in there and (breaking things up), but there's not a place for it," Minnesota Vikings coach Brad Childress said. "Typically, those guys can tumble into your bench or sideline, but you're more worried about getting 'em off the ground or finding out if any of your guys got hurt. It's split-second stuff.

"It has to do with the emotions of the game, too. But as competitors, you have to be able to control that emotion. There's not a lot of place for it. You get off-centered that way too easily."

Titans coach Jeff Fisher, the elder statesman among NFL coaches, said he's never heard of a coach taunting the other team's players before or after a game.

"I personally feel like I have a great deal of respect for them. I'll do a lot more of the other, just talking," he said.

And what does he think of McDaniels' trash talking opponents?

"Good luck in free agency."

Northman
11-26-2009, 04:47 PM
I agree with Bullock. Talk is cheap no matter how you slice it. Shut up and prove how you good are with the playing and coaching. If not, ****.

weazel
11-26-2009, 04:51 PM
Which is what Pittsburgh Steelers safety Ryan Clark suggested players should be allowed to do when coaches taunt players from the other team.

"Honestly, my thought on that is, I would like to petition Mr. (Roger) Goodell and say, if a coach can talk to me like that, I should be able to fight him," Clark said. "I don't know where he's from, but where I'm from, when somebody talks to you like that, they've got a problem with you. And we should be able to fight

yeah, well not everyone is from the hood. this league has too many scumbags. What he meant to say is if this happened where he's from, he would have shot him in the back while driving by in a '69 impala. You know, like a real man.

That being said, the coach shouldn't be smack talking on the field, its ridiculous.

SR
11-26-2009, 04:51 PM
Not the smartest thing to do BEFORE a game, but I like his passion and fire. I like that he gets amped up and acts like a little kid when he celebrates. After a while, I got tired of the TV cameras panning over to Shanny after Denver scored or made a good play and seeing no emotion in Shanny.

As far as our four game skid...a coach can only do so much. Players are the ones that have to make it happen. We're going against a TOUGH as nails opponent tonight and I think we can swing it. I'm waking up at 2am to watch it, so we better effing do something!

Poet
11-26-2009, 05:11 PM
Coaches should not talk shit to opposing players. At that point you don't get to have any credibility if you tell your players to cool off or to shut up and you give the other team motivation.

Northman
11-26-2009, 05:22 PM
Coaches should not talk shit to opposing players. At that point you don't get to have any credibility if you tell your players to cool off or to shut up and you give the other team motivation.

Yea, its just not setting a good example. Ive always been one to believe you let your playing doing the talking and your coach should not be jawing with opposing players.

Poet
11-26-2009, 05:34 PM
yeah, well not everyone is from the hood. this league has to many scumbags. What he meant to say is if this happened where he's from, he would have shot him in the back while driving by in a '69 impala. You know, like a real man.

That being said, the coach shouldn't be smack talking on the field, its ridiculous.

Uhh...........

I mean............

In the quote he said the words fight and fist.......

Damn......

I understand that the NFL has a lot of problem guys, and I understand that a lot of the guys in the NFL are tatted up, have dreads or haircuts that resemble rappers or 'thugs', but I don't really think you can make this leap...

LordTrychon
11-26-2009, 05:45 PM
Uhh...........

I mean............

In the quote he said the words fight and fist.......

Damn......

I understand that the NFL has a lot of problem guys, and I understand that a lot of the guys in the NFL are tatted up, have dreads or haircuts that resemble rappers or 'thugs', but I don't really think you can make this leap...

Yeah... "I want to be able to punch people when they say something inconsiderate." screams sunday school teacher to me. :laugh:

;)

Poet
11-26-2009, 05:48 PM
Yeah... "I want to be able to punch people when they say something inconsiderate." screams sunday school teacher to me. :laugh:

;)

But it's a far cry from "I'm going to ******* shoot that *******.":salute:

camdisco24
11-26-2009, 06:05 PM
Ryan Clark really made himself sound like a fool with his statments. If you want to make yourself sound like trash, just saying something like he did. So pathetic....

Anyways... I hope McD doesnt do much of this trash talking before the game anymore. I love the passion, but I dont want our coach to have a scumbag reputation.

weazel
11-26-2009, 06:08 PM
I stand by what I said... I mean, even Marvin Harrison is being looked at for shooting someone and the "circumstantial" evidence added up...

The league has too many scumbags and turns people off.

Poet
11-26-2009, 06:11 PM
I stand by what I said... I mean, even Marvin Harrison is being looked at for shooting someone and the "circumstantial" evidence added up...

The league has too many scumbags and turns people off.

Uhh, most fans don't care if their team has scumbags. That's sad, but it's true.

Italianmobstr7
11-26-2009, 06:32 PM
Mcdaniels said the Chargers players were razzing him before the game first. He's allowed to talk back if he feels it's necessary. **** Shaun Phillips and the Chargers. They've been starting shit with us before almost every game, like when they got in our face before the first game this year. They're classes ****s and if McD wants to talk trash then he should, IMO.

weazel
11-26-2009, 06:36 PM
McD better not hang out in SD, Clark will be waiting to stick a shiv in him.

elsid13
11-26-2009, 06:45 PM
Mcdaniels said the Chargers players were razzing him before the game first. He's allowed to talk back if he feels it's necessary. **** Shaun Phillips and the Chargers. They've been starting shit with us before almost every game, like when they got in our face before the first game this year. They're classes ****s and if McD wants to talk trash then he should, IMO.

No, he should walk away and have his team get even. Talking shit is for losers, kicking the shit out of someone is for winners.

jrelway
11-26-2009, 06:52 PM
coach should not be talking smack to opposing players. let the players do that.

Dreadnought
11-26-2009, 07:25 PM
Bush league, all the way. Pfaugh

broncophan
11-26-2009, 07:27 PM
The coach talking trash to the opposing team is just not a smart thing to do.....and it makes you really look like an ass when your team gets its ass beat like the broncos did last week.

Hope McD keeps his passion.......but no more trash talking

Poet
11-26-2009, 07:28 PM
Bush league, all the way. Pfaugh

Yup. Next time a Bronco gets a 15 yard flag McDaniels is going to have a hard time blowing up at him.

EastCoastBronco
11-26-2009, 07:41 PM
I think it's great. This whole story is from the same media that was kissing his arse a month ago for fist pumping the north stands. Fickle bunch of ******** that they are...
You go McLovin. There's a lot about the way the Broncs have been performing lately that's pissed me off but you are not part of it. I just hope, in 2-3 years time, when we are destroying teams regularly, that you will still be calling opposing linebackers out...
Go get em Kid...

broncophan
11-26-2009, 07:45 PM
I think it's great. This whole story is from the same media that was kissing his arse a month ago for fist pumping the north stands. Fickle bunch of ******** that they are...
You go McLovin. There's a lot about the way the Broncs have been performing lately that's pissed me off but you are not part of it. I just hope, in 2-3 years time, when we are destroying teams regularly, that you will still be calling opposing linebackers out...
Go get em Kid...

3 of our last 4 losses.....we got outcoached at halftime....the last loss......we just were not ready.


If we credit McD and his staff(and the players) for the wins.....they have to take the blame for the losses as well.

Dzone
11-26-2009, 08:03 PM
If they were still winning, I would be all for him talkin it up like that. It would be kind of funny for a coach who is 11-0 talking shit, He would be unlike any coach in history and everybody would be digging it..but he got dismantled in that game.He didnt back it up so he ends up looking like a chump. Doing that is only cool if you win.

spikerman
11-26-2009, 08:10 PM
Just to echo other sentiments. If he's going to talk **** (and he shouldn't) he'd better make sure that his team is capable of backing it up (they weren't). One interesting thing alluded to in the article is that this type of stuff may turn off free agents. I am very concerned about the immediate future of this team and this incident doesn't give me a warm fuzzy.

Dzone
11-26-2009, 08:18 PM
maybe thats what you get with a 32 year old coach. or is that 33? whatever. Its probably not the classiest thing, And when you get beat, it is not looked at with favor. Its only cool when you back it up. but jumping around and fist pumping after victories is very cool.

weazel
11-26-2009, 09:05 PM
3 of our last 4 losses.....we got outcoached at halftime.

yup, reminds me of the last 5 seasons with Shanny

EastCoastBronco
11-26-2009, 09:07 PM
You guys missed the goddam point. A month ago the media was loving him for that outspoken, fist pumping attitude. Now they are using it as a negative.

You figure it out...

Shazam!
11-26-2009, 11:47 PM
He's young. He's 33. He's really firey and passionate and I like that.

He was reacting from SD trash talking.

Was it wrong? Yes.

I think it's a rookie mistake from a young coach, and he'll learn from it.

tomjonesrocks
11-27-2009, 12:09 AM
There's no way to know how bad this was without knowing exactly what was said and how it was delivered. On the other hand, the team got crushed so it adds more embarrassment to a loss that doesn't need any more embarrassment.

I think it's safe to say we won't see McD doing that again.

NightTrainLayne
11-27-2009, 12:23 AM
None of us saw this happen. Sometimes stuff gets blown way out of proportion when it's out of context.

Just from watching McD from his press conferences and the "mic'd up" stuff, I could see this going down something like Phillips saying something to McD, and McD quickly and with a big smile saying "we own you guys."

Is that trash talk? I guess it could be, but I seriously doubt that he was in their face butting chests, point his finger in Phillips' face saying "we own you guys".

From what I've seen, his personality would certainly lend itself to the former (good-natured response to Phillips) more than it would the latter (actual trash talk).

rcsodak
11-27-2009, 12:24 AM
Just to echo other sentiments. If he's going to talk **** (and he shouldn't) he'd better make sure that his team is capable of backing it up (they weren't). One interesting thing alluded to in the article is that this type of stuff may turn off free agents. I am very concerned about the immediate future of this team and this incident doesn't give me a warm fuzzy.

I don't buy that at all!

I see AND hear nothing but love for this guy from the team.

Players WANTED to be in denver because of Shanny, and I think a new breed will WANT to be in denver because of McD.

Hell, see BMarsh run halfway up the field to thank McD for that play call? BMarsh? THAT, should tell you more than something that Fisher has to opine, IMHO!

dogfish
11-27-2009, 12:29 AM
would i rather he keep that stuff to himself? yea, probably, but it's really much ado about nothing-- a meaningless incident blown way out of proportion in the internet age. . .

Timmy!
11-27-2009, 12:43 AM
"We're just trying to win the ************* game!!!!!"

:lol:

tomjonesrocks
11-27-2009, 12:58 AM
"We're just trying to win the ********* game!!!!!"

:lol:

so funny...NFLN is getting some heat for this--this is starting to go viral already. Can't believe the NFLN was incompetent enough to go out of their way to queue that up unedited. We can look forward to another excuse for some to exhibit some fake outrage...:laugh:

shank
11-27-2009, 01:30 AM
so funny...NFLN is getting some heat for this--this is starting to go viral already. Can't believe the NFLN was incompetent enough to go out of their way to queue that up unedited. We can look forward to another excuse for some to exhibit some fake outrage...:laugh:

it's total bullshit that someone asked mcd about it in the post game presser. like it's his ****** fault. that reporter is going to pretend like the NFL culture doesn't include curse words? **** you dumbass...

i wish mcd woulda said, "**** that, next question."

ursamajor
11-27-2009, 03:44 AM
That is old school. Reminds me of a certain coach who told Hornung and Starr that he hoped they came to play, cuz we are gonna kick you a$$.

I see nothing wrong with it. Just have to back it up.

Northman
11-27-2009, 06:50 AM
The funny thing is, reading some of the responses on the Giants forum they were all wishing Coughlin was throwing F-bombs at his players instead of playing pocket pool all night.

Poet
11-27-2009, 11:15 AM
That is old school. Reminds me of a certain coach who told Hornung and Starr that he hoped they came to play, cuz we are gonna kick you a$$.

I see nothing wrong with it. Just have to back it up.

Those were different times and different days.