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Ravage!!!
11-23-2009, 05:35 PM
History regurgitated: Denver's done

By Gene Wojciechowski

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=4680541&sportCat=nfl

DENVER -- Remember the Denver Broncos?

They had a six-pack of wins to start the season. Beat the likes of Cincinnati, Dallas, New England, San Diego. Had a 3½-game lead in the AFC West.

That was before the abduction. Someone replaced those Broncos with these Broncos. These Broncos play like they have an endorsement deal with Sominex. They slept through Sunday's 32-3 loss to the San Diego Chargers, and no one is sure when -- or if -- they'll ever awaken.

I'll beat the holiday rush. The Broncos are History Channel. They're done. I'm declaring them unofficially eliminated from the playoff equation with a half-dozen games remaining.

"We definitely have to find some answers fast," said Broncos safety Renaldo Hill.

Why bother? The Broncos' record says 6-4 --wild-card material -- but their November says 0-4. The way they're playing these days, I'm surprised they didn't lose on their bye week.

The Chargers, once 2-3, have overtaken Denver in the AFC West standings. Just like they did last season. The Broncos missed the playoffs in excruciating fashion in 2008; they'll miss them in excruciating fashion in 2009.

"We knew it was a long season and things happen," said Chargers running back LaDainian Tomlinson.

This is true. For example, not every Broncos player grabbed a feather pillow and had nap time Sunday. Wide receiver Brandon Marshall's mouth was wide awake during and after the game. During the game he did a verbal scorch job on rookie running back Knowshon Moreno, whose second-quarter fumble at the Chargers' goal line cost Denver a touchdown. And afterward, Marshall aimed fingers at himself and at his teammates.

"I don't regret anything," he said. "This is a playoff game. There were guys who were on the sideline who weren't angry, who didn't have a lot of emotion and they need to look at themselves in the mirror.

"This is a game where you've got to have it."

The Broncos didn't have anything, especially it. Marshall was good for three catches and 26 yards. Moreno finished with 80 yards and that killer fumble. They had the ball nearly 16 minutes less than the Chargers.

"This is probably the most frustrating game I've played in," Marshall said. "I approached it like a playoff game."

So did the Chargers, who somehow lost to the Broncos a month ago in San Diego. But the Chargers, who have won five in a row, aren't the same team. And the Broncos, unbeaten in September and October, have misplaced their mojo.

"We can't sit back and mourn," Hill said.

Mourn, no. Yell at each other, yes.

Moreno's fumble could have cut a 13-0 Chargers lead to 13-7 at halftime. Marshall knew that, which is why he confronted the rookie.

"Maybe I handled it wrong; we'll see," Marshall said.

"Nothing big, just everyone heated," Moreno said. "Nothing long-term. Just heat of the moment."

As the afternoon temperatures dropped from the low 50s to the 30s, so did the number of Broncos fans at Invesco Field. There were blotches of empty seats as early as halftime, but the actual "I'm getting out of here" moment came late in the third quarter.

That's when the Broncos, trailing 20-3 and in full desperation mode, went for it on fourth-and-5 at the San Diego 40-yard line -- and whiffed.

Commence the evacuation.

From first place to frustration; that's the Broncos. They did it in less than a month and with stunning ease.

"I'll start as I have the last few weeks," said Broncos coach Josh McDaniels, before detailing --again -- the list of weekly errors by his team. The short version: They're shopping at Costco and buying mistakes in bulk.

At least this time the Broncos aren't waiting until the final three weeks of the season to wet themselves. Like Thanksgiving Day turkeys, the Broncos are cooked.

Speaking of Thanksgiving, the Broncos play again Thursday, this time against the New York Giants.

"It's probably the best thing about this," McDaniels said.

Sure it is. Hello, 6-5.

Then the Broncos go to Kansas City, where the Chiefs just beat the Pittsburgh Steelers. Six and 6.

Then they travel to Indianapolis for a Manning-oscopy. Six and 7.

After that, they play Oakland. Seven and 7. Maybe.

A trip to Philly won't be much fun. Seven and 8.

Then the Chiefs come here. Eight and 8. Maybe.

Anyway, it won't be enough. Not with the Steelers, Baltimore Ravens, Houston Texans, Jacksonville Jaguars and Miami Dolphins in the playoff martini shaker. And not the way the Broncos are phoning it in these days.

Actually, that's not fair. Kyle Orton and his sprained left ankle limped off the Broncos' sideline to replace starter Chris Simms with 4 minutes, 19 seconds remaining in the first half. Simms was only in the lineup because Orton's ankle was the size of a state fair pumpkin. It was Simms' first start since September 2006, and he played like it.

Simms was awful. He completed 2 of 4 passes for 10 yards, was sacked twice and fumbled once before McDaniels handed him a boarding pass to the bench.

"I just didn't have the greatest day of my life," Simms said.

What does it say about the state of the Broncos when a quarterback playing on one ankle and barely any practice time is better than Simms playing on two ankles and with a full week's worth of prep time?

And yet, when asked if getting the hook in the second quarter surprised him, Simms said "I wasn't expecting it."

The Broncos think they can fix whatever is wrong. But here's the problem: They can't even articulate what's wrong. And if they could, they don't seem capable of being able to repair it.

"It's going to take all of us being honest with ourselves," Hill said.

Honestly? It's over.

Northman
11-23-2009, 05:39 PM
I know Wojo is jerking off to himself now.

Dirk
11-23-2009, 05:40 PM
I felt a lot of love in that article for the Broncos. :banghead:



Let's see if a quick slap of reality will help them rebound!

Traveler
11-23-2009, 09:12 PM
Where was Wojo during Denver's early season wins? Dude has always hated on Denver for some reason.

broncophan
11-23-2009, 10:01 PM
I don't know Wojo....but hard to argue with what he wrote.....

Ravage!!!
11-23-2009, 11:10 PM
I was around for Denver's first six wins, and there isn't much I can say he's wrong on. Why is it someone can't criticize a team if they weren't around BRAGGING about you first?

dogfish
11-24-2009, 01:04 AM
oh noes! some sportswriter said we're done! may as well not even play the rest of 'em fellas. . . .

shank
11-24-2009, 01:48 AM
http://weng.ikm04.dk/pic/ohnoes.jpg

EastCoastBronco
11-24-2009, 07:46 AM
The guy pretty much hit the nail on the head if you ask me. The Broncos are back to playing mediocre, uninspired football again. The damn offence left town 2 weeks ago and the defence caught the next train out. My ability to be optimistic is pretty much gone. Flame me all you want but watching that mess Sunday reminded me so much of the "old" Broncos that I barley watched the 4th quarter. Once again we have pissed away a great start and placed ourselves in desperation mode. I don't want to hear all the reasons why. I have spent the last 4 weeks trying to explain to the doubters why they should still have faith. I'm tired of it. I'm not going to the dark side and start ripping my team and my QB and coach. I'm just going to sit on the fence for a while and hope the scenery doesn't get any worse...
Mediocrity is back...with a vengeance.

jhildebrand
11-24-2009, 12:32 PM
Their season is far from done. If we have learned anything we should have learned you are as never as good as you think when things are good and you are never as bad when you are losing. We should also realize the season can turn in an instant. Denver needs to find a way to win 4 games with 3 winnable games on the schedule. I wouldn't be as quick to write this team off as Wojo.

claymore
11-24-2009, 12:37 PM
The guy pretty much hit the nail on the head if you ask me. The Broncos are back to playing mediocre, uninspired brand of football again. The damn offence left town 2 weeks ago and the defence caught the next train out. My ability to be optimistic is pretty much gone. Flame me all you want but watching that mess Sunday reminded me so much of the "old" Broncos that I barley watched the 4th quarter. Once again we have pissed away a great start and placed ourselves in desperation mode. I don't want to hear all the reasons why. I have spent the last 4 weeks trying to explain to the doubters why they should still have faith. I'm tired of it. I'm not going to the dark side and start ripping my team and my QB and coach. I'm just going to sit on the fence for a while and hope the scenery doesn't get any worse...
Mediocrity is back...with a vengeance.

Not trying to be negative. Most of the stuff I say is in jest anyway..... But for some of us that really never bought into most of the wins, and the fast start, this is how we felt.

Dr Velcro
11-24-2009, 12:47 PM
This guy cannot make it so cut and dry.


He is NOT Ms Cleo....

He cannot predict the future....none of us can.
As usual, we have yet another writer bashing the Broncos...again.
The most beloved team in the NFL to speak ill of.

Whatever.

broncofan7
11-24-2009, 12:48 PM
Not trying to be negative. Most of the stuff I say is in jest anyway..... But for some of us that really never bought into most of the wins, and the fast start, this is how we felt.

Wojo hit the nail on the head--8&8 is how we will finish---which means we will have closed out the season 2-8. Josh will get 2010 to turn the trend in the opposite direction--but if you look at what we may lose this off-season

1) Champ --salary concerns
2) Dawkins--neck injury--how serious is that?
3) Center--weigman will be gone--can hamilton take the reigns or do we get someone else?
4) Will Marshall be a hassle to sign (if a new CBA is ratified and FA is active) or will he be back?


Orton simply is not dynamic enough to win games on a consistent basis unless we literally win the turnover battle every week and hold teams under 17 points. It sure would be nice to have that 2nd first rounder this year too...we paid an AWFUL price for a CB who is not even our nickel anymore.........

Dr Velcro
11-24-2009, 12:54 PM
Broncofan7 should meet Broncogirl7

:D

broncofan7
11-24-2009, 12:54 PM
Their season is far from done. If we have learned anything we should have learned you are as never as good as you think when things are good and you are never as bad when you are losing. We should also realize the season can turn in an instant. Denver needs to find a way to win 4 games with 3 winnable games on the schedule. I wouldn't be as quick to write this team off as Wojo.

Face it--during our winning streak--we handled only the browns and raiders well--we were extremely lucky against Cincy--lucky against NE and Dallas. The two ST TD's against Sd on the Monday night game-were simply an aberration--anyone who was being objective knew that it just didn't seem 'right' even when we were 6-0.


We have lost 30-7, 28-10, 27-17 (to Washington--allowing them a SEASON HIGH!) and 32-3 AT HOME in a game for first place--the team has lost faith in McDaniels--and from looking at the TV this past Sunday--and listening to how quiet the stadium was--many of the hard working, ticket paying fans have as well.

broncofan7
11-24-2009, 12:56 PM
Broncofan7 should meet Broncogirl7

:D

I'm already married--and yes to a Bronco fan. thanks for the love connection though.....

claymore
11-24-2009, 01:03 PM
Wojo hit the nail on the head--8&8 is how we will finish---which means we will have closed out the season 2-8. Josh will get 2010 to turn the trend in the opposite direction--but if you look at what we may lose this off-season

1) Champ --salary concerns
2) Dawkins--neck injury--how serious is that?
3) Center--weigman will be gone--can hamilton take the reigns or do we get someone else?
4) Will Marshall be a hassle to sign (if a new CBA is ratified and FA is active) or will he be back?


Orton simply is not dynamic enough to win games on a consistent basis unless we literally win the turnover battle every week and hold teams under 17 points. It sure would be nice to have that 2nd first rounder this year too...we paid an AWFUL price for a CB who is not even our nickel anymore.........

We finish 8-8 or worse 6-10 if we dont get any worse. We have declined since the bye. I think the defense is spent, and have already packed it in. Unless we can get this offense fired up we are hosed.

We cannot rely on luck plays to win games.

JMO...

KCL
11-24-2009, 01:04 PM
We finish 8-8 or worse 6-10 if we dont get any worse. We have declined since the bye. I think the defense is spent, and have already packed it in. Unless we can get this offense fired up we are hosed.

We cannot rely on luck plays to win games.

JMO...

clay..is this guy related to you? :D

claymore
11-24-2009, 01:08 PM
clay..is this guy related to you? :D

Hell no, I couldnt spell the guys last name. I didnt read the article BTW.. Probably a bunch more shit thats already been said.

broncofan7
11-24-2009, 01:12 PM
We finish 8-8 or worse 6-10 if we dont get any worse. We have declined since the bye. I think the defense is spent, and have already packed it in. Unless we can get this offense fired up we are hosed.

We cannot rely on luck plays to win games.

JMO...

I really believe that we will win tight, hotly contested home games against Jokeland and KC........

weazel
11-24-2009, 01:20 PM
wow Marshall sounds mad! I wonder if he went home and beat his girlfriend?

slim
11-24-2009, 01:21 PM
Boys, we are a six game winning streak away from 12-4 :drinking:

weazel
11-24-2009, 01:23 PM
boys, we are a six game winning streak away from 12-4 :drinking:

lmao

broncofan7
11-24-2009, 01:38 PM
Boys, we are a six game winning streak away from 12-4 :drinking:

and I am one lottery ticket from being retired.........

KCL
11-24-2009, 01:44 PM
Hell no, I couldnt spell the guys last name. I didnt read the article BTW.. Probably a bunch more shit thats already been said.

:lol:

I meant Broncofan7 not the writer of the article.

slim
11-24-2009, 01:45 PM
and I am one lottery ticket from being retired.........

C'mon, let's try to keep it realistic in here :drinking:

shank
11-24-2009, 01:52 PM
we've gone on just as many 6 game win streaks this season as we have 4 game losing streaks.

Dr Velcro
11-24-2009, 02:16 PM
and I am one lottery ticket from being retired.........

You are two nuts, a bolt and several cards shy a full deck from being Broncogirl7.

slim
11-24-2009, 02:37 PM
I feel sorry for the New York G-spots.

Goldenrod is gonna have a little something for them :shocked:

Northman
11-24-2009, 02:41 PM
I was around for Denver's first six wins, and there isn't much I can say he's wrong on. Why is it someone can't criticize a team if they weren't around BRAGGING about you first?

Its called lack of balls.

Ravage!!!
11-24-2009, 02:50 PM
Its called lack of balls.

No its not. Its nitpicking at someone's comments because they don't have a retort.

The boards have been pretty empty and slow since the 4 game slide. Haven't noticed?

What difference does it make. A person criticizes this team if we are winning, gets bashed and hammered. They criticize this team if we are losing, they get bashed and hammered. Doesn't matter if you were around or not. Has nothing to do with balls. Has everything to do with the posters knowing the criticism is correct.

jhildebrand
11-24-2009, 07:00 PM
Face it--during our winning streak--we handled only the browns and raiders well--we were extremely lucky against Cincy--lucky against NE and Dallas. The two ST TD's against Sd on the Monday night game-were simply an aberration--anyone who was being objective knew that it just didn't seem 'right' even when we were 6-0.


We have lost 30-7, 28-10, 27-17 (to Washington--allowing them a SEASON HIGH!) and 32-3 AT HOME in a game for first place--the team has lost faith in McDaniels--and from looking at the TV this past Sunday--and listening to how quiet the stadium was--many of the hard working, ticket paying fans have as well.

Any return in the NFL takes some degree of luck. I completely disagree with you on the Dallas and NE games as being lucky. The only thing lucky against NE was Matt Light got hurt which allowed Doom to do his thing.

You do realize Orton had a 92 and 90 yard scoring drive against NE right :confused: That is the difference between the winning Broncos and the losing Broncos-the offense could sustain drives.

In the end, I hate decrying luck because every team that wins has luck! Shall we take away Washington's "lucky win?"

Cugel
11-24-2009, 07:14 PM
Their season is far from done. If we have learned anything we should have learned you are as never as good as you think when things are good and you are never as bad when you are losing. We should also realize the season can turn in an instant. Denver needs to find a way to win 4 games with 3 winnable games on the schedule. I wouldn't be as quick to write this team off as Wojo.

If the Broncos had shown some signs of life in the last month -- such as making an EFFORT then I would agree with you.

But, it isn't the LOSSES, but the WAY they lost. Right now the Broncos are a warmed over corpse and Brandon Marshall is absolutely right. There were a bunch of guys on the sidelines mailing it in for what essentially was a playoff game for the team.

Where was the passion? Where was the intensity in the 2nd half? They came out and laid down and died.

They HAD to win that game -- and they didn't even give it an effort. The entire second half they looked like they were waiting for the gun to go off so they could get into the locker-room, dress quickly and get out of town.

And it was a home game!

I can't imagine what team in the NFL they could beat with that kind of EFFORT!

I keep thinking that they SHOULD beat the Chiefs and Raiders at home, but not if they're going to go on scoring 3 points a game and just mailing it in!

You can't beat one single team in the NFL without a total effort for 60 minutes -- not Cleveland, not the Rams, not the Lions, not the Chiefs and not the Raiders! NOBODY! :coffee:

Cugel
11-24-2009, 07:21 PM
You do realize Orton had a 92 and 90 yard scoring drive against NE right :confused: That is the difference between the winning Broncos and the losing Broncos-the offense could sustain drives.

The difference between the 6-0 Broncos and THESE Broncos is that the defense was giving up 11 points a game -- which would be 2nd best in football history since the 16 game season! The 2000 Ravens surrendered 166 points. 11 ppg = 176 points -- better than the 2003 SB Champion Bucs who won with Brad Johnson at QB.

Well, I said it then: "if the defense continues to play like this they can beat anybody."

But, they DIDN'T continue to play like that. Instead they are giving up 29 points a game over the last 4 losses.

If the offense gets better they might not get blown out. But, this offense is NOT designed to win games 30-28. They are too conservative. Orton is a "game manager" who's not supposed to make mistakes and won't turn the ball over.

That's fine as long as your defense isn't giving up long TD drives.

But, as I've said all season (and gotten ENDLESS FLACK from the HOMERS for saying it) "what happens when the defense slips? Can this offense pick up the slack and fuel a come-from-behind win?"

Answer: NO. :coffee:

jhildebrand
11-24-2009, 09:59 PM
The difference between the 6-0 Broncos and THESE Broncos is that the defense was giving up 11 points a game -- which would be 2nd best in football history since the 16 game season!:

I would argue the offense is the D's problem. Even in our losses, the D has kept us in the game late into the third or 4th quarters.

Again, the offense just needs to find a way to sustain some drives and get some points on the board. 3 points, 7 points, but get points and give the D some much needed rest.

The points the D is giving up is late in the game after they have been on the field almost the entire second half. The TOP in the Pitt and Wash games was 8 minutes out of 30 for Denver. ANY D will get blown out when they are on the field that long.

broncofaninfla
11-24-2009, 10:39 PM
I would argue the offense is the D's problem. Even in our losses, the D has kept us in the game late into the third or 4th quarters.

Again, the offense just needs to find a way to sustain some drives and get some points on the board. 3 points, 7 points, but get points and give the D some much needed rest.

The points the D is giving up is late in the game after they have been on the field almost the entire second half. The TOP in the Pitt and Wash games was 8 minutes out of 30 for Denver. ANY D will get blown out when they are on the field that long.

Our conservative offense puts too much pressure on our defense. Most of this is on scheme and coaching. The talent is there on offense there but the understanding and focus by coaching to develop a scheme to fit that talent isn't. Our rookie coach seems to be either lost in tailoring a winning scheme for the roster he orchestrated and accepted for this season or naively stubborn.

rcsodak
11-24-2009, 11:15 PM
Broncofan7 should meet Broncogirl7

:D

Sure they're not one in the same? :confused:

KCL
11-24-2009, 11:16 PM
Sure they're not one in the same? :confused:

Not unless she was banned...:lol:

rcsodak
11-24-2009, 11:30 PM
The difference between the 6-0 Broncos and THESE Broncos is that the defense was giving up 11 points a game -- which would be 2nd best in football history since the 16 game season! The 2000 Ravens surrendered 166 points. 11 ppg = 176 points -- better than the 2003 SB Champion Bucs who won with Brad Johnson at QB.

Well, I said it then: "if the defense continues to play like this they can beat anybody."

But, they DIDN'T continue to play like that. Instead they are giving up 29 points a game over the last 4 losses.

If the offense gets better they might not get blown out. But, this offense is NOT designed to win games 30-28. They are too conservative. Orton is a "game manager" who's not supposed to make mistakes and won't turn the ball over.

That's fine as long as your defense isn't giving up long TD drives.

But, as I've said all season (and gotten ENDLESS FLACK from the HOMERS for saying it) "what happens when the defense slips? Can this offense pick up the slack and fuel a come-from-behind win?"

Answer: NO. :coffee:

PManning is a "game manager". He "manages" the game like no other.

He calls most of his own plays. He "manages" how defenses play every down.

"Game manager" is NOT a bad moniker, fyi.

rcsodak
11-24-2009, 11:33 PM
Our conservative offense puts too much pressure on our defense. Most of this is on scheme on coaching. The talent is there on offense there but the understanding and focus by coaching to develop a scheme to fit that talent isn't. Our rookie coach seems to be either lost in tailoring a winning scheme for the roster he orchestrated and accepted for this season or naively stubborn.

Goes to my point on the running game.
Until they're able to run AT WILL, not every now and then, they will continue to have 3 & outs. If they could run the ball, there's no reason Orton couldn't be having 70% completions.

MOtorboat
11-27-2009, 02:22 AM
I was around for Denver's first six wins, and there isn't much I can say he's wrong on. Why is it someone can't criticize a team if they weren't around BRAGGING about you first?

Good call on that whole Cutler thing, btw...

McDumbass, wasn't it?

dogfish
11-27-2009, 02:40 AM
7-4. . . TOAST!


we're finished. . . don't bother even playing the rest of the season. . .

Northman
11-27-2009, 06:46 AM
No its not. Its nitpicking at someone's comments because they don't have a retort.

The boards have been pretty empty and slow since the 4 game slide. Haven't noticed?

What difference does it make. A person criticizes this team if we are winning, gets bashed and hammered. They criticize this team if we are losing, they get bashed and hammered. Doesn't matter if you were around or not. Has nothing to do with balls. Has everything to do with the posters knowing the criticism is correct.


Your right. We're done. 26-6

jhildebrand
11-27-2009, 12:26 PM
I would argue the offense is the D's problem. Even in our losses, the D has kept us in the game late into the third or 4th quarters.

Again, the offense just needs to find a way to sustain some drives and get some points on the board. 3 points, 7 points, but get points and give the D some much needed rest.

Funny how things work :laugh:

I am still a bit purturbed that McDaniel's cant realize the run is what gets us into the RZ and goes to three straight passes :tsk:

We still had a few too many three and outs in the second half that all three plays were passes, IMHO.

This team will run more and more and that should bode well for us. I see them stealing the game in Philli and finishing strong!

Poet
11-27-2009, 01:40 PM
@ Northman, oh dear.

TXBRONC
11-27-2009, 08:10 PM
oh noes! some sportswriter said we're done! may as well not even play the rest of 'em fellas. . . .

I didn't know sportswriters determined who goes to the playoffs and who doesn't?