More than just scheme???

[gobroncsnv]

Well, we still have Nolan, yet our D has been figured out... Don't get me wrong, I still want the guy to stay, as much as anyone else on the boards. But just like Coyer, if you don't get the man some players, ultimately, you get "figured out"... teams realize that they can beat you up front because you don't yet have the players you need to consistently win at the LOS. So here I am, AGAIN, asking that we get some REAL butt-whoopers to play our front line on D. 'nuff said.

[Dirk]

Well, we still have Nolan, yet our D has been figured out... Don't get me wrong, I still want the guy to stay, as much as anyone else on the boards. But just like Coyer, if you don't get the man some players, ultimately, you get "figured out"... teams realize that they can beat you up front because you don't yet have the players you need to consistently win at the LOS. So here I am, AGAIN, asking that we get some REAL butt-whoopers to play our front line on D. 'nuff said.

Yeah, that's a glaring issue. D-line is a MUST this off season if we are to stay a 3-4 defense. :coffee:

[claymore]

Nolan is the best coach we have. I darn sure hope he stays.

[Dreadnought]

I can't argue with you. Nolan worked a near miracle early this season, and the guys on hand played their asses off. It just appears they aren't good enough

[skycoyote]

The Broncos missed out on all the good inside linebackers last draft, instead we got another hybrid rushing DE/LB (jack), like we need another one, and a undersized cornerback that only comes up to Randy Moss' belly button. Ok, this year they have got to go after Terrence Cody. The Broncos need to get bigger on both sides of the line. Also, it should be obvious to everone that they need a quarterback. I think Orton will be a quality backup, but face it, he is not going to worry defenses with his arm. Rookie Matt Stafford threw 5 td pass yesterday, Orton will never throw that many. Point is the Broncos need a "franchise" quarterback.

[UnderArmour]

The Broncos missed out on all the good inside linebackers last draft, instead we got another hybrid rushing DE/LB (jack), like we need another one, and a undersized cornerback that only comes up to Randy Moss' belly button. Ok, this year they have got to go after Terrence Cody. The Broncos need to get bigger on both sides of the line. Also, it should be obvious to everone that they need a quarterback. I think Orton will be a quality backup, but face it, he is not going to worry defenses with his arm. Rookie Matt Stafford threw 5 td pass yesterday, Orton will never throw that many. Point is the Broncos need a "franchise" quarterback.

Cutler will be a free agent in 2014!

[Medford Bronco]

Yeah, that's a glaring issue. D-line is a MUST this off season if we are to stay a 3-4 defense. :coffee:

Same old story. D Line needs to be addressed

[weazel]

you can't turn a team around in one off-season! Give this team time... Shanahan left this team with 2 or 3 legitimate defensive stars and a bunch of spare parts that weren't taught a damn thing the last few seasons. The DL still needs some players, we could use a couple LB's but the DB's aren't bad at all if given help by the DL.

The offense should be moving the ball better and a QB is something they have to look at in the off-season. Simms has to go, what a waste of ******* money. The OL needs work. We need some big boys in the middle, our guards and center need to be bigger and stronger.

Nobody should have expected this team to be turned around in one or even two off-seasons. It takes time, drafts, FA signings to fix what was wrong here. Hopefully the coaching staff stays and continues what they started with core players and some new signings and kids from the draft.

off-season needs
DL
OL
QB
LB

go Broncos...

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Getting Ayers wasn't a bad idea because he can play OLB and DE in the scheme, and getting Smith proved to be a smart investment considering we had to bring back Ty Law and our other corners have been struggling to date. Denver didn't need an ILB, and last week was a particularly weak class. Davis and Williams have done well for us this year. If we have the opportunity to get one next year, go for it.

I'd rather see us rebuild up front first, then add a linebacker to the mix. We have plenty of solid DL and LB options in this draft. Building the secondary up in youth was a priority last year due to the age of our starters. I assume we'll be addressing the DL early this coming year.

[underrated29]

I see

NT
C
CB
cb
G
NT
lb
rb

[CoachChaz]

Gotta change the d-line. And preferably with a NT that can play more than 2 or 3 plays in a row. When Cody does that...let me know.

[gobroncsnv]

Same old story. D Line needs to be addressed

Like 10 years running now...

The point of the thread is that some were saying we just lacked a good scheme... I never did buy that, just at face value. Coyer has some players, and now his D is among tops in the league. Doesn't hurt to have a great offense, but his D is pretty good in it's own right. They stopped the Ravens, even though the Crows had the ball 5 minutes more... TOP may be a reason to lose, but it's not an excuse.
I'll say it again... I - WANT - NOLAN - TO - STAY!!! Get the man some players like he's had when he's been successful. I am AMAZED at what he was able to get out of the bunch we now have. But seasons are long, and there's a lot of film on us now. We are getting all blocked, and moved out of the way. It's more than just a time of possession thing, because teams are scoring on us in all 4 quarters. (Redskins, anyone???)
Schemes are great, they put players IN POSITION to make plays, but it still comes down to players making plays, kind of like not running past the ball on an on-side kick.

[Ravage!!!]

Yet Ayers didn't even play this weekend against a division rival in a HUGE game, and we had to bring in a CB from the retirement home because Smith can't take over the nickle. So was Ayers really the right pick? Not sure. Never going to judge a rookie on one season, but he SHOULD be starting with a defense that is this void of talent up front.

[Peerless]

Yet Ayers didn't even play this weekend against a division rival in a HUGE game, and we had to bring in a CB from the retirement home because Smith can't take over the nickle. So was Ayers really the right pick? Not sure. Never going to judge a rookie on one season, but he SHOULD be starting with a defense that is this void of talent up front.

But wouldn't you rather watch Jarvis Moss perform an athletic off-sides splits, while falling on his ass and trying desperately to get back to his LOS?



Me either..

[Dean]

I agree with you for the most part. However, those players running past the ball are assigned to block the recieving team's players. Josh Barrett missed the ball but I don't think that it had gone 10 yards, yet. It would have been nice to have had someone to tackle the Chargers lineman who came up with the ball. It looked to me like he could have run it in.

[dogfish]

Gotta change the d-line. And preferably with a NT that can play more than 2 or 3 plays in a row. When Cody does that...let me know.

i can't lie, i'd take cody, even as a rotational player. . . but am i alone in thinking that we might need the help at DE more than at nosetackle? without having watched games over and specifically looking for it, it kinda seems to me that we're getting beat in the B gaps more than the A gaps, and those are the five-techs' responsibilities. . . i don't think fields is a differencemaker by any means, but IMO he's mostly been adequate. . . and i still think baker's going to be a player for us down the road. . .

i don't know if suh will be in our reach or not (depends on how many more games the bears can lose, i suppose), but it looks like there are going to be some decent options available for the five-tech, including guys like cameron heyward, arthur jones and jared odrick. . .

[sneakers]

I see

NT
C
CB
cb
G
NT
lb
rb

Get in line on that one, it seems half the teams in the league are looking for that.

[JDL]

I am just trying to think where we are ABSOLUTELY set for the next 3-4 years.

QB - no
RB - maybe (questionable)
WR - yes (assuming Marshall resigning)
TE - maybe (Graham is signed til 2011, Scheffler is probably a goner before long and Quinn has done nothing.)
LT - yes
LG - no
C - no
RG - maybe (Kuper is adequate imo)
RT - yes

DE - no
NT - no
DE - no
OLB - yes (assuming Doom is resigned)
ILB - no
ILB - no
OLB - no
CB - maybe (Goodman and Bailey work though Bailey's needs to be renegotiated and he still has not regained pre-injury form, I really wouldn't be surprised to see him traded by McDaniels if he wants a contract extension.)
S - maybe (Dawkins is already slowing as this year has progressed, young guys and Hill haven't really been impact players yet)

What I find frustrating is that with all those draft picks we don't have very many maybes. Most every position is in desperate need of an infusion of youth. I actually like McDaniels the coach, but I am starting to get very concerned that we basically turned over personnel decisions to McDaniels. We should have have kept the Goodmans as they had far more to do with the recent upswing in drafted talent than Xanders and Xanders appears to be nothing more than a yes man to McDaniels and contract negotiator.

God it would be nice to be the Pittsburgh Steelers... most of all they don't waste 1st rd picks very often. I mean if nothing comes of Ayers or Smith (used a 1st rd pick to draft him)? Add on McBath and Quinn in Rd 2. I mean it is early of course and Pryce is an example of a late bloomer... but we honestly have not seen much from this draft class yet.

Just a big IF right now, but if McDaniels is a piss poor draft manager (and some of his trades were EXTREMELY questionable) and draft prospect evaluator then we are in big trouble. We got some productive FAs but they are stop gaps and can't solve fundamental talent issues on the team. This is the point in the season we DESPERATELY need the young guys' energy to help boost an older starting unit and it hasn't happened other than Moreno who is finally starting to find the 2nd level of defenses and make more of an impact rushing. We need a TON more of that right now.

[Elevation inc]

we need a DE, C, G, CB, ILB

baker is gonna be a beast in a year or 2 at NT

[KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128]

[QUOTE=JDL;831065]I am just trying to think where we are ABSOLUTELY set for the next 3-4 years.

QB - no - yes, kyle practices 15 hours on thurs and wed, he will learn this offense incredibly well and master it, and when he gets older brandstater may have his chance
RB - maybe (questionable)- Next year moreno will be a beast
WR - yes (assuming Marshall resigning) Marshall will
TE - maybe (Graham is signed til 2011, Scheffler is probably a goner before long and Quinn has done nothing.) quinn is a rookie 3rd string TE, of course he's done nothing, scheff loves being a bronco and TE's don't get paid as much as you may think, he will get more receptions as Daniel is more of a blocking TE
LT - yes - definitely
LG - no -sadly, you're right.
C - no - see above response
RG - maybe (Kuper is adequate imo) He's fine
RT - yes - we'll see how that works

DE - no - true
NT - no - at least he's big
DE - no - as long as he holds his assignment we'll get pressure off the edge from olb's
OLB - yes (assuming Doom is resigned) - hope so
ILB - no - DJ is fine!
ILB - no
OLB - no - our olb's are cheating around blocks and messing up assignments but they're not physically mismatched, so again we're fine.
CB - maybe (Goodman and Bailey work though Bailey's needs to be renegotiated and he still has not regained pre-injury form, I really wouldn't be surprised to see him traded by McDaniels if he wants a contract extension.)
S - maybe (Dawkins is already slowing as this year has progressed, young guys and Hill haven't really been impact players yet) - we'll see how that pans out

What I find frustrating is that with all those draft picks we don't have very many maybes. Most every position is in desperate need of an infusion of youth. I actually like McDaniels the coach, but I am starting to get very concerned that we basically turned over personnel decisions to McDaniels. We should have have kept the Goodmans as they had far more to do with the recent upswing in drafted talent than Xanders and Xanders appears to be nothing more than a yes man to McDaniels and contract negotiator.

God it would be nice to be the Pittsburgh Steelers... most of all they don't waste 1st rd picks very often. I mean if nothing comes of Ayers or Smith (used a 1st rd pick to draft him)? Add on McBath and Quinn in Rd 2. I mean it is early of course and Pryce is an example of a late bloomer... but we honestly have not seen much from this draft class yet.

Just a big IF right now, but if McDaniels is a piss poor draft manager (and some of his trades were EXTREMELY questionable) and draft prospect evaluator then we are in big trouble. We got some productive FAs but they are stop gaps and can't solve fundamental talent issues on the team. This is the point in the season we DESPERATELY need the young guys' energy to help boost an older starting unit and it hasn't happened other than Moreno who is finally starting to find the 2nd level of defenses and make more of an impact rushing. We need a TON more of that right now.

- I think you're judging far too soon, and If in a few years it becomes apparent that Mcd is no good at talent evaluation (like his predecessor) we can always hire a GM or president for personnel decisions, you're exaggerating.

[LRtagger]

What I find frustrating is that with all those draft picks we don't have very many maybes. Most every position is in desperate need of an infusion of youth. I actually like McDaniels the coach, but I am starting to get very concerned that we basically turned over personnel decisions to McDaniels. We should have have kept the Goodmans as they had far more to do with the recent upswing in drafted talent than Xanders and Xanders appears to be nothing more than a yes man to McDaniels and contract negotiator.


Not sure exactly how you can already have come to that conclusion. McDaniels is the kind of coach that likes to bring rookies along slowly. Obviously he hasn't done that with Moreno because typically running backs can jump right into the NFL...but looking back, it probably would have been a good idea to move Moreno along more slowly as well.

Aside from Moreno, none of the other rookies we drafted have had any sort of significant playing time. Ayers comes in in certain situations, and he has progressed significantly since camp.

People need to realize this new regime does not run things like Shanny. Not only that, but people also need to get used to the fact that we aren't going to have 5 or 6 rookies play/start (much less contribute) like we did in 08. 2008 was a total fluke and is not typical of ANY nfl team.

Moreno and Ayers have potential to be very good players. Smith is still up in the air, but we have't seen enough of him to judge. He has the skillset to be very good. McBath has been very good in relief of Dawkins. He doesn't bring the same type of leadership and intensity as Dawk, but I don't think you can expect that out of any rookie. I think its great that Smith and McBath are transitioning to the NFL by learning from two of the greatest DBs of all time. The potential is there for them to develop into great players.

Quinn is questionable, but he can be a solid replacement for Graham. Bruton has been an absolute ANIMAL on special teams...which is exactly what he was drafted for. Olsen is the future at LG imo. But we haven't seen him play much, so again, you can't call it a failure or a great pickup yet (remember in 2007 when everyone said we should cut Ryan Harris?). McKinley has shown flashes of great speed and agility, but he is still very raw. I doubt he turns into anything special besides a 4th WR. But I will take a #4 WR as a 5th round pick all day.

Then Tom B who I was very high on and still am. He can potentially be our starter in two years. Worst case he is our backup - which isnt a bad deal as a 6th rounder...considering what our current backup has co

Then of course Schlueter who we cut. But you can't expect to find a Peyton Hillis in the 7th round every year.

[GEM]

OK draft guys...who is the best NT coming out in the draft? How high do you have him? Any way of getting him and do you want him? I think that is the most glaring issue.

[NightTrainLayne]

OK draft guys...who is the best NT coming out in the draft? How high do you have him? Any way of getting him and do you want him? I think that is the most glaring issue.

I'm with Dogfish on this one. I think we're ok at NT. Fields is adequate, and if Baker comes along and improves we already potentially have that spot down. I'd rather go DE if we are hitting the Defensive line (Suh, McCoy)

Edit: you specifically asked "draft guys" of which I am most certainly not, so feel free to disregard my input. :D

[weazel]

Nolan is the best coach we have. I darn sure hope he stays.

with the way our D has played the last few games I dont think we have to worry about him being lured away

[weazel]

OK draft guys...who is the best NT coming out in the draft? How high do you have him? Any way of getting him and do you want him? I think that is the most glaring issue.

you don't need the "best" NT... the most effective NT at the pick you want to use is how we will go...

the problem with an NT is half the league needs one and there aren't enough "great" ones. Makes you think we should go 4-3...

[dogfish]

OK draft guys...who is the best NT coming out in the draft? How high do you have him? Any way of getting him and do you want him? I think that is the most glaring issue.

you'll get a better answer from coach or dreamero, but i'll field this in the interim. . .

ndamukong suh from nebraska is generally being rated as the top defensive tackle of the coming class, but he doesn't have the size to play the nose in a 3-4. . . alabama's terrance cody is a born nosetackle, a 365 pound monster. . . he's generally considered the top pure NT of the group, but like most prospects he has question marks-- as coach alluded to, at that weight conditioning and stamina are major concerns, as is the possibility that he'll balloon up further once he gets paid. . . west will tell you that there's no reason to worry about that, but he's also an alabama homer. . .

as i said in my earlier post, i won't cry at all if we do end up getting cody-- there's always risk involved, but that pick would have major upside as well. . . he'll never be more than a two down player in the NFL, but he has the potential to be a beastly anchor in the middle of someone's run defense for the next decade-- think jamal williams or kris jenkins. . . most people have cody projected as a first round pick, with definite top 10-15 potential. . . he's a guy whose grade is probably going to vary pretty significantly from team to team (michigan's monster NT alan branch was considered a top ten pick a few years back, and took a post-combine nosedive down to the top of the second round). . . with a premium on NTS this year with lots of needy teams, i don't see cody falling like that barring some unforseen occurance or revelation. . . you can't predict this stuff accurately with so much time still to go, but if i had to guess i'd say chicago's pick will be high enough to put him in our range. . . IF mcdaniels is interested, which is pretty questionable IMO. . .

dan williams from tennessee is another widebody who's been getting some press-- you can ask smiley about him, he's our resident vols expert. . .

[Dzone]

Yet Ayers didn't even play this weekend against a division rival in a HUGE game, and we had to bring in a CB from the retirement home because Smith can't take over the nickle. So was Ayers really the right pick? Not sure. Never going to judge a rookie on one season, but he SHOULD be starting with a defense that is this void of talent up front.
I totally agree. Smith cost us a first round pick and is rarely seen anymore. Ayers is slow to fit in and isnt even suiting up. Thats pretty bad for a first round pick. Well, thats actually 2 first rounders. Ayers may be headed down the same road as that guy from Florida. I dont even remember his name. #94. He has been a complete bust. We havent seen much of anything with smith..Lots of wasted first rounders with this franchise.

[gobroncsnv]

I thought Ayers didn't play because he was nicked up??

[Dzone]

Oh that tall skinny linebacker from florida,#94 got an offsides penalty Sunday. Thats about the most we have ever seen out of that guy in the 3 years he's been here after being a first round pick.

[rcsodak]

Oh that tall skinny linebacker from florida,#94 got an offsides penalty Sunday. Thats about the most we have ever seen out of that guy in the 3 years he's been here after being a first round pick.

Good grief. If you're going to bag on a player, on your own team, at least know his freaking name!
It's MOSS!
And he's learning a new position, LB, scheme, after suffering through numerous other schemes since his arrival. At 6-7, no less.
He may succeed, he may not. But he's the ONLY one receiving high regards in practices, so at least he's trying.

[dogfish]

face it RC, all we do is draft busts!


*sobs*

[Dzone]

Good grief. If you're going to bag on a player, on your own team, at least know his freaking name!
It's MOSS!
And he's learning a new position, LB, scheme, after suffering through numerous other schemes since his arrival. At 6-7, no less.
He may succeed, he may not. But he's the ONLY one receiving high regards in practices, so at least he's trying.
Believe me, if Moss was any good, nobody would be forgetting his name. I honestly drew a blank on the guys name. Thats pretty bad. He might be good in practice, but he hasnt done sh*t in a game and hes getting paid first round money. MOSS IS A BUST..maybe we can trade him for a 5th round pick. Either that or hes going to be outright cut next year.

[Poet]

You wanna know how important a 3-4 NT is? You're a good one of those away from having an elite defense that can play at a high level the entire year.

[rcsodak]

face it RC, all we do is draft busts!


*sobs*

Dang....I guess so. :tsk:

[Requiem / The Dagda]

This defensive tackle class is probably one of the greatest all-time if some expected juniors declare.

McCoy from Oklahoma and Suh from Nebraska are my favorites, but they would be ends in a 3-4. I think both of them would do well in that regard, but they are not nose tackles.

People always rave about Terrence Cody, but I think he has to get in much better shape and not take plays off to be a difference maker in the NFL. Conditioning will help. We're at the #10 pick right now (from Chicago) and I don't know if that is where I'd take a player like him. I'd move down (if possible) if that were the scenario. However, a lot of teams want to build their defensive line, so I actually expect him to go pretty high.

Arthur Jones is an interesting prospect, but a torn meniscus is going to shelve him for Bowl Season and probably up to the combine. It is a shame. I really want to see him in Mobile. Geno Atkins can be grouped with him, he could have went first round had he not torn up his knee last year, don't think he would play NT here.

Boo Robinson is a legit prospect at NT, he is worth it in round two. I like Vince Ogohbaase playing end in the NFL, I think he can make an impact. Dan Williams is another guy that comes to mind, but not until a bit later. Some other potential guys out there, but those are the big names.

This class could rival 2001's DT class. I'm pleased either way if we can get any of these guys. I think McDaniels realized how weak the defensive line was last draft and knew that this year would be the right time to get a premium player. We have a top ten pick as of now and we have plenty of options. We are sitting good.

[Dean]

As Dog alluded to and illustrated by the bottom table in this football outsiders link, the problem isn't the nose. The 4.5+ yards per carry come at defensve left end and at right OLB.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl

[Elevation inc]

OK draft guys...who is the best NT coming out in the draft? How high do you have him? Any way of getting him and do you want him? I think that is the most glaring issue.


we dont need a NT...we need a better better DE's. Thomas should be playing DE not NT, baker should be backing up fields, peterson shouldnt be a every down player he should be used in pass rush situations, not on run downs becasue he has been getting washed up lately....holliday and le kevin smith should be let go end of the year.

and we need to draft a guy like suh, mccoy, odrick, heyward, lawrence marsh, vince ogohabasse....all these guys dont just stuff the run but they can diusrupt plays consistently in the backfield, something our current 3 man rush only dreams about...

our 3-4 man rush's do little top cause penetration, we need to start adding DE's that can chnage that, so we dont have to just blitz to get sacks....elvis is getting double teamed over guys like peterson and mcbean that shouldnt happen when the scheme goes correctly.....

teams are simply shutting down elvis with double teams, and the rest of the DL isnt picking up the slack, becasue outside of peterson on ocassion, the others do little to cause problems in the backfield......

[CoachChaz]

This defensive tackle class is probably one of the greatest all-time if some expected juniors declare.

McCoy from Oklahoma and Suh from Nebraska are my favorites, but they would be ends in a 3-4. I think both of them would do well in that regard, but they are not nose tackles.

People always rave about Terrence Cody, but I think he has to get in much better shape and not take plays off to be a difference maker in the NFL. Conditioning will help. We're at the #10 pick right now (from Chicago) and I don't know if that is where I'd take a player like him. I'd move down (if possible) if that were the scenario. However, a lot of teams want to build their defensive line, so I actually expect him to go pretty high.

Arthur Jones is an interesting prospect, but a torn meniscus is going to shelve him for Bowl Season and probably up to the combine. It is a shame. I really want to see him in Mobile. Geno Atkins can be grouped with him, he could have went first round had he not torn up his knee last year, don't think he would play NT here.

Boo Robinson is a legit prospect at NT, he is worth it in round two. I like Vince Ogohbaase playing end in the NFL, I think he can make an impact. Dan Williams is another guy that comes to mind, but not until a bit later. Some other potential guys out there, but those are the big names.

This class could rival 2001's DT class. I'm pleased either way if we can get any of these guys. I think McDaniels realized how weak the defensive line was last draft and knew that this year would be the right time to get a premium player. We have a top ten pick as of now and we have plenty of options. We are sitting good.

I've been saying all year that I'd like to see him play more than 2 plays in a row before I spend a ton of money on him.

[rcsodak]

As Dog alluded to and illustrated by the bottom table in this football outsiders link, the problem isn't the nose. The 4.5+ yards per carry come at defensve left end and at right OLB.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl

What I see from that, coach, is most yards given up are at BOTH tackle positions.
They give up the LEAST on the LDE side.

All I know, is I'm tired of seeing rb's take a step toward the LOS, then bounce around the RDE and run til monday. They're so intent of blocking in, from the outside, that they open up the edge for big yards

[Lonestar]

I have been nagging for years to beef up the LOS. When everyone was singing the praises of how great our RB's were they were happy witha between the 20's offense.

We need some beef at LG and Center although if it is wiegman and kuper he is not run over like hamilto and casey were. Big NT were back in the pocket for the past 3 years perhaps not getting sacks. But I have to wonder how many hurries resulted in non completeions.

We have really not had a legit DT on this team since aLB for most of his career was drafted as a DE and then because we sucked so bad at DT was moved there. Now price took a a lot of games off so many that Rod and Mike called him out MANY times.

That folks is the best we had in the past decade.

I've heard this is a GREAT DL draft I suspect we will pick up a couple to work into the mix.

I wonder why carter has not developed at NT. He is big enough and led the nation in negative yards in college.

I see a couple of DL types taken in rounds 2-4 this year.

Our OL needs a Big 315+ mean nasty OLG having a stud there. Will take pressure off of casey.

I was thinking Polumbus was a road grader in this last game but hear several folks not happy with him.

If he is not a long fix for ORT then we need to find someone to take harris spot as he has missed 3-4 games this year and had back surgery the year before.

Unlike like some fans I see orton as a long term fix at QB not gonna throw long all the time in the NE scheme anyway and thus his arm is fine for what we need from him. Ball control moving the cahins and NO turnovers.
Probably need another WR to replace marshall and a TE for Tony

Imho we have enough LB and unless your going to demote the leading tackler really have no where to put one.
DB's are fine for a couple of years with more OJT the young kid we have there should be fine next year.

So NT, DE, WR, OG or TWO and anothe reciving TE. Should about do it.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel

[Lonestar]

Just FWIW wehave just played 3 of the biggest OLINEs since the by in the NFL and just perhaps that is a small reason our DL has got practically no penetration.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

[elsid13]

I've been saying all year that I'd like to see him play more than 2 plays in a row before I spend a ton of money on him.

That the only Sabin and his staff can keep him fresh. I know folks are projecting him as first rounder, but I wouldn't be surprised if drops into the 2nd or early third area. I think Al Woods, Dan Williams or Phil Taylor might be better value later in the draft.

[horsepig]

Believe me, if Moss was any good, nobody would be forgetting his name. I honestly drew a blank on the guys name. Thats pretty bad. He might be good in practice, but he hasnt done sh*t in a game and hes getting paid first round money. MOSS IS A BUST..maybe we can trade him for a 5th round pick. Either that or hes going to be outright cut next year.

He has a lot of upside. Get this guy involved!

Speed, size, and athleticism. Play him or throw in the towel, at this level you rarely tget better sitting on your ass.

I see his long tall frame and think , this guy can create a lot of problems far any offense. Play him now, or just cut him. I think he could become a Ted Hendricks type.

[jhildebrand]

Yet Ayers didn't even play this weekend against a division rival in a HUGE game, and we had to bring in a CB from the retirement home because Smith can't take over the nickle. So was Ayers really the right pick? Not sure. Never going to judge a rookie on one season, but he SHOULD be starting with a defense that is this void of talent up front.

Not to mention we went to Ty "father time" Law when there was a guy like Josh Bell out there. Oh wait, Shanahan guy. My bad. :tsk:

Did Law even play in the SD game? :confused:

[jhildebrand]

we dont need a NT...we need a better better DE's. Thomas should be playing DE not NT, baker should be backing up fields, peterson shouldnt be a every down player he should be used in pass rush situations, not on run downs becasue he has been getting washed up lately....holliday and le kevin smith should be let go end of the year.

and we need to draft a guy like suh, mccoy, odrick, heyward, lawrence marsh, vince ogohabasse....all these guys dont just stuff the run but they can diusrupt plays consistently in the backfield, something our current 3 man rush only dreams about...

our 3-4 man rush's do little top cause penetration, we need to start adding DE's that can chnage that, so we dont have to just blitz to get sacks....elvis is getting double teamed over guys like peterson and mcbean that shouldnt happen when the scheme goes correctly.....

teams are simply shutting down elvis with double teams, and the rest of the DL isnt picking up the slack, becasue outside of peterson on ocassion, the others do little to cause problems in the backfield......

Fields is productive when given the opportunity. Opportunity being the operative word.

[rcsodak]

I have been nagging for years to beef up the LOS. When everyone was singing the praises of how great our RB's were they were happy witha between the 20's offense.

We need some beef at LG and Center although if it is wiegman and kuper he is not run over like hamilto and casey were. Big NT were back in the pocket for the past 3 years perhaps not getting sacks. But I have to wonder how many hurries resulted in non completeions.

We have really not had a legit DT on this team since aLB for most of his career was drafted as a DE and then because we sucked so bad at DT was moved there. Now price took a a lot of games off so many that Rod and Mike called him out MANY times.

That folks is the best we had in the past decade.

I've heard this is a GREAT DL draft I suspect we will pick up a couple to work into the mix.

I wonder why carter has not developed at NT. He is big enough and led the nation in negative yards in college.

I see a couple of DL types taken in rounds 2-4 this year.

Our OL needs a Big 315+ mean nasty OLG having a stud there. Will take pressure off of casey.

I was thinking Polumbus was a road grader in this last game but hear several folks not happy with him.

If he is not a long fix for ORT then we need to find someone to take harris spot as he has missed 3-4 games this year and had back surgery the year before.

Unlike like some fans I see orton as a long term fix at QB not gonna throw long all the time in the NE scheme anyway and thus his arm is fine for what we need from him. Ball control moving the cahins and NO turnovers.
Probably need another WR to replace marshall and a TE for Tony

Imho we have enough LB and unless your going to demote the leading tackler really have no where to put one.
DB's are fine for a couple of years with more OJT the young kid we have there should be fine next year.

So NT, DE, WR, OG or TWO and anothe reciving TE. Should about do it.


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I don't see BMarsh going anywhere, jr. Sheff? Who knows. He does good things when he's schemed into the gameplan.

Remember....McD schemes against the opposing D. We're seeing something completely different than what we're used to. Unless we either find a "moss" or "welker" on the team, no more 1500yd receivers.

[rcsodak]

Not to mention we went to Ty "father time" Law when there was a guy like Josh Bell out there. Oh wait, Shanahan guy. My bad. :tsk:

Did Law even play in the SD game? :confused:

Hmmmm....26, right? I saw him waving at a couple wr's as they passed him on sunday. He must've known them. :shrug:

[rcsodak]

Fields is productive when given the opportunity. Opportunity being the operative word.

When is Fields not being given the opportunity? He's the starting NT, no? :confused::confused:

[Lonestar]

I don't see BMarsh going anywhere, jr. Sheff? Who knows. He does good things when he's schemed into the gameplan.

Remember....McD schemes against the opposing D. We're seeing something completely different than what we're used to. Unless we either find a "moss" or "welker" on the team, no more 1500yd receivers.

If the price is not right on either of them then IMO they are gone. BM has a bunch of issues that he has to deal with the latest getting into a schuffle on the sidelines without having all the facts. He siad after hearing them he would not got in his grill.

It has been one thing after another with him. As a RFA this year I believe they would allow him to leave and getting a 1st and a 3rd for him.

I know that Josh game plans agsinst the weaknesses of the team we play each week but I feel that Tony S is leaving also. There has ti be more to him not being involved than "game" planning.


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