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View Full Version : Selvin a Change of Pace Back and Kuper a Tackle



TXBRONC
01-17-2008, 10:39 PM
I saw this article on TheSportingNews.com and thought I pass it along. According to Rasizer Selvin might be seen by the coaching staff as a change of pace back instead of an every down back. So if Henry is let go which still don't happening then we are left without a stud buffalo. If that's the case I could see Shanahan drafting a running back and possibly early.

I also found the comments no Kuper interesting. He could possibly be competing to for a starting position at either tackle spot. That of courses seem to be contingent on Hamilton coming back. Personally I would like to see him replace Holland because I just wasn't that impressed with him.

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=337987

Broncos Team Report
Posted: January 16, 2008
Lee Rasizer
For Sporting News

PERSONNEL ANALYSIS:

The insertion of Bob Slowik as the head of the Broncos defense in the wake of Jim Bates' resignation will likely signal a move toward a more aggressive, blitzing scheme. That was Slowik's modus operandi when he was with Green Bay, and it fits with the philosophy espoused by previous coordinators under Mike Shanahan. It also fits into Denver's one defensive strength at cornerback. Still, Slowik will need some more playmakers in the front seven to accomplish the main objective, which is slowing down the likes of LaDainian Tomlinson, Larry Johnson and an improving Raiders rush game. Denver went to eight men in the box in the second half of 2007, and with crowding the line of scrimmage a strength of safety John Lynch, and Champ Bailey and Dre' Bly able to handle single-coverage responsibilities behind an eight-man front, that philosophy also figures to continue in the short term. ...

The Broncos have plenty of holes to address, and in the near future, running back could become another. Travis Henry will need to significantly restructure his contract to come back. And if he doesn't, or Denver simply decides to move on without him after an injury-filled season, the team doesn't have another every-down back on hand. Coach Mike Shanahan prefers Selvin Young as a change-of-pace option, getting 12-15 touches per game in the vein of ex-Bronco Tatum Bell. Andre Hall also has skills but is a smaller back whose game isn't predicated on pounding between the tackles.

SCOUTING REPORT:

The Broncos failed to deliver on their promise to get tight end Daniel Graham more involved in the passing game. But with Tony Scheffler emerging as a force at the position, he's not necessarily needed in that role. But Graham did deliver as a physical presence in the run game, and his absence at the end of the season was reflected in a statistical downturn in rushing. Graham has a nasty streak when locking on an opposing lineman and doesn't merely want to use body positioning to turn potential tacklers away from the play. He wants to mash them and often succeeds with exceptional upper-body strength and playing with a balanced base.

YOUTH MOVEMENT:

The anticipated return of center Tom Nalen and guard Ben Hamilton, coupled with Matt Lepsis' retirement, will create uncertainty on the offensive line. But one player who has hoisted himself firmly into the mix with his late-season showing is guard Chris Kuper. Kuper subbed at left guard, where Hamilton (post-concussion syndrome) normally resides, and his size, competitiveness and footwork impressed Denver coaches. Kuper played both tackle spots in 2007, and it wouldn't be surprising if he's allowed to compete for a starting job either against Ryan Harris on the left side or Erik Pears on the right.

Hawgdriver
01-17-2008, 10:45 PM
The running back issue doesn't surprise me, but Kuper moving to bookend does. I think a stud RB can make a difference in 08, but I'm still concerned about the long term outlook for the line.

TXBRONC
01-17-2008, 11:00 PM
The running back issue doesn't surprise me, but Kuper moving to bookend does. I think a stud RB can make a difference in 08, but I'm still concerned about the long term outlook for the line.

I'm not quite as concerned about the offensive line right now because really starting to look like Hamilton and Nalen will be back. If that holds true I think our offensive line will be solid.

Like you I think a stud running back could make a big difference immediately. I think Henry is that kind of back when healthy but that was problem he couldn't stay healthy enough to remain on the field.

Skinny
01-18-2008, 08:06 AM
I would feel more comfortable with Kuper at LT and bring in Harris on the right side. It's the same way Lepsis was groomed into a fine LT. No reason to change that process now ... no rush.

...LT......LG......C.........RG........RT...
Kuper, Hamilton, Nalen, Myers, Harris ... ??

Go Kupes!

TXBRONC
01-18-2008, 08:18 AM
I would feel more comfortable with Kuper at LT and bring in Harris on the right side. It's the same way Lepsis was groomed into a fine LT. No reason to change that process now ... no rush.

...LT......LG......C.........RG........RT...
Kuper, Myers, Nalen, Hamilton, Harris ... ??

Go Kupes!

I would make one switch. I would put Hamilton back at LG.

Skinny
01-18-2008, 08:37 AM
Good eye TX ... fixed ...

atwater27
01-18-2008, 09:42 AM
It is so funny to me that both Selvin Young and Andre Hall are already written off as "injury prone" and "unable to carry a full load" and worse. it was their ROOKIE YEAR!!!
Watch how things turn out in training camps and preseason! Give the guys a chance! Selvin did nothing but produce with over 5 yards a carry! Andre did nothing but have a monster game in his only start!
CHRIST!

NameUsedBefore
01-18-2008, 11:36 AM
Blitz-happy teams usually don't do well in the playoffs. It's a nice stop gap, but sooner or later we're gonna have to actually put some talent on our defensive-line.

BOSSHOGG30
01-18-2008, 11:40 AM
It is so funny to me that both Selvin Young and Andre Hall are already written off as "injury prone" and "unable to carry a full load" and worse. it was their ROOKIE YEAR!!!
Watch how things turn out in training camps and preseason! Give the guys a chance! Selvin did nothing but produce with over 5 yards a carry! Andre did nothing but have a monster game in his only start!
CHRIST!

It has nothing to do with just their rookie year... it goes way back to high school and college.

mclark
01-18-2008, 11:53 AM
I agree with most of the article. We need a workhorse back: think Michael Turner, free agent. Hall and Young are very interesting change-of-pace backs.

We need a real left tackle: think Jordan Gross, free agent.

Kuper, Holland, Hamilton can fight it out for the guard spots. I really don't want Pears AND Harris starting. Hamilton should move in to center when Nalen finally does step down.

We need help at DT, linebacker, safety.

MHCBill
01-18-2008, 11:55 AM
Blitz-happy teams usually don't do well in the playoffs. It's a nice stop gap, but sooner or later we're gonna have to actually put some talent on our defensive-line.Did you happen to see the Broncos/Packers Super Bowl?

Denver was a blitz happy team when we won back to back super bowls.

Personally, I like an aggressive defense that attacks the line of scrimmage and the QB.

You have to take the good with the bad that we will get burned now and again, but I'll take that over what I just witnessed this year. It was horrible! It was a basically wait and see approach to how long it takes for the other team to score on our D.

I'm glad we're going to attack. We have the corners for it. Use them.

Biggest hurdle to still overcome is size and strength on the Dline during non-passing situations.

See sig below... get bigger and stronger on the defensive line.

mclark
01-18-2008, 11:59 AM
Did you happen to see the Broncos/Packers Super Bowl?

Denver was a blitz happy team when we won back to back super bowls.

Personally, I like an aggressive defense that attacks the line of scrimmage and the QB.

You have to take the good with the bad that we will get burned now and again, but I'll take that over what I just witnessed this year. It was horrible! It was a basically wait and see approach to how long it takes for the other team to score on our D.

I'm glad we're going to attack. We have the corners for it. Use them.

Biggest hurdle to still overcome is size and strength on the Dline during non-passing situations.

See sig below... get bigger and stronger on the defensive line.

Blitz-happy is fine...IF you blitz successfully. I don't want a passive (ball-control!) defense. With the cornerbacks we have, we should be blitzing. I remember Darrent Williams turning games around with his blitzing. Yes, I'll be happy to see us more aggressive on defense.

Keep the opposition guessing.

DenBronx
01-18-2008, 12:01 PM
am i the only one that just doesnt seem comfortable with our current o-line? i'd like us to make a run at a couple of proven vets in free agency. i think if nalen was going to retire he would have announced it as soon as the season was over like lepsis did so the team could begin looking for his replacement. my concern though is his play is on the decline and he has been injury prone the last couple of years. i think age has alot to do with it. id like to see nalen retire now.

BOSSHOGG30
01-18-2008, 12:26 PM
am i the only one that just doesnt seem comfortable with our current o-line? i'd like us to make a run at a couple of proven vets in free agency. i think if nalen was going to retire he would have announced it as soon as the season was over like lepsis did so the team could begin looking for his replacement. my concern though is his play is on the decline and he has been injury prone the last couple of years. i think age has alot to do with it. id like to see nalen retire now.

Kuper is a rising star and very young. He held his own against Kevin Williams and Pat Williams in the Vikings game.

Holland is still young and was arguably our best offensive lineman in 2007 and he was new to the system. He should only get better in 2008.

Nalen and Hamilton are both very good and if I have to convince you other wise something is very wrong. I'm not sure if Nalen will be back, but Hamilton said he will be back and he can play guard or center.

Myers is a very good back up and he actually didn't play bad in the starting lineup when called upon.

Harris was a rookie last season and he didn't play bad when called to action. He is very versatile and could play either tackle or even guard.

Overall I'm more than comfortable at the guard position. We are ok at center for now, but we need to look for a replacement in the near future, unless Shanahan has plans for the guy he is holding on the practice squad. Tackle is more of a concern because we don't know exactly what we have in Pears or Harris and we lost Lepsis. We are even talking about moving Kuper to tackle. Kuper is athletic enough to handle it, but we can't rely on that fact. So except for the LT position we are looking very good and we are very young, so we should have the same guys for the long haul.

HolyDiver
01-18-2008, 01:04 PM
Selvin Young is not small.............is not slow...........and is not an injury waiting to happen, like so many feel. I think he's a very good, all-round, tough, instinctive runner with good vision and good game speed. .............He's 6' 210..............What the hell is wrong with that? ................Plus, he finished the year strong.

HolyDiver
01-18-2008, 01:06 PM
2007 Game Log Rushing Receiving Fumbles
WEEK OPP RESULT ATT YDS AVG LNG TD REC YDS AVG LNG TD FUM LST
1 @BUF W 15-14 2 7 3.5 4 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
2 OAK W 23-20 (OT) 3 43 14.3 40 0 1 1 1.0 1 0 0 0
3 JAC L 23-14 2 7 3.5 6 0 2 37 18.5 20 0 1 1
4 @IND L 38-20 8 81 10.1 32 0 2 19 9.5 11 0 0 0
5 SD L 41-3 1 0 0.0 0 0 4 20 5.0 9 0 0 0
6 Bye
7 PIT W 31-28 2 1 0.5 2 0 1 16 16.0 16 0 0 0
8 GNB L 19-13 (OT) 18 71 3.9 18 0 6 49 8.2 24 0 0 0
9 @DET L 44-7 6 12 2.0 6 0 2 15 7.5 9 0 0 0
10 @KC W 27-11 20 109 5.5 34 1 3 20 6.7 11 0 1 0
11 TEN W 34-20 14 54 3.9 9 0 2 9 4.5 5 0 0 0
12 @CHI L 37-34 (OT) Did Not Play
13 @OAK L 34-20 7 28 4.0 9 0 2 17 8.5 10 0 0 0
14 KC W 41-7 17 156 9.2 50 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
15 @HOU L 31-13 8 34 4.3 20 0 5 8 1.6 5 0 0 0
16 @SD L 23-3 10 39 3.9 10 0 2 8 4.0 5 0 0 0
17 MIN W 22-19 (OT) 22 87 4.0 20 0 3 12 4.0 8 0 0 0


Twice, had 20 carries or more this year................He's definately good for 25 carries a game. Last game of the season against the Vikings, he had 22 carries and 3 receptions...............25 touches and he did just fine with that.

Requiem / The Dagda
01-18-2008, 01:15 PM
Kuper would be a mauler at RT; but I still think this is Denver's way of being pansy's and not taking advantage of a top tier OT draft class.

HolyDiver
01-18-2008, 01:17 PM
Kuper would be a mauler at RT; but I still think this is Denver's way of being pansy's and not taking advantage of a top tier OT draft class.

If our Defense wasn't so bad, then we COULD draft a Tackle...........We just happen to need Defense more.

lex
01-18-2008, 02:10 PM
Kuper would be a mauler at RT; but I still think this is Denver's way of being pansy's and not taking advantage of a top tier OT draft class.


I had that same thought. I kind of wondered if they would go after a guard since so many others are going after a tackle. But with Oher and Loadholt going back, the tackle class isnt looking as good as it once was. Its still good. I wouldnt mind Otah in 1 or Williams in 2 but it doesnt look like its going to be like that.

Maybe theyll sign Foneco, and target Sims in the 2nd instead of Corey Williams and drafting a tackle?

lex
01-18-2008, 02:11 PM
If our Defense wasn't so bad, then we COULD draft a Tackle...........We just happen to need Defense more.

I disagree. If we lose Cutler, then where are we? And yes, our tackles were that bad this year.

HolyDiver
01-18-2008, 02:23 PM
I disagree. If we lose Cutler, then where are we? And yes, our tackles were that bad this year.

I agree it's a concern.............but do you really think a rookie will be better than a player that has STARTED two straight seasons? ..................Now, perhaps so.............but there is no guarentee.

NameUsedBefore
01-18-2008, 02:24 PM
Did you happen to see the Broncos/Packers Super Bowl?

Denver was a blitz happy team when we won back to back super bowls.

Personally, I like an aggressive defense that attacks the line of scrimmage and the QB.

You have to take the good with the bad that we will get burned now and again, but I'll take that over what I just witnessed this year. It was horrible! It was a basically wait and see approach to how long it takes for the other team to score on our D.

I'm glad we're going to attack. We have the corners for it. Use them.

Biggest hurdle to still overcome is size and strength on the Dline during non-passing situations.

See sig below... get bigger and stronger on the defensive line.


That defensive line actually had stars on it.

Our's does not.



(Not to mention something about one of the greatest offenses ever to help out)

BOSSHOGG30
01-18-2008, 02:25 PM
Selvin Young would make a good back up to Andre Hall and Jamaal Charles or James Davis.

HolyDiver
01-18-2008, 02:31 PM
Selvin Young would make a good back up to Andre Hall and Jamaal Charles or James Davis.


You and Jamaal Charles..................He's only 205 Boss.............A homerun threat for sure, but, can he pound the ball in short yardage situations?

BOSSHOGG30
01-18-2008, 02:35 PM
You and Jamaal Charles..................He's only 205 Boss.............A homerun threat for sure, but, can he pound the ball in short yardage situations?

Clinton Portis doesn't have problems scoring TD's. Charles has plenty of pop. I think you undermine his running ability... your putting to much emphasis on size. He, Hall, and Young would be dangerous!

G_Money
01-18-2008, 02:36 PM
Selvin Young is not small.............is not slow...........and is not an injury waiting to happen, like so many feel. I think he's a very good, all-round, tough, instinctive runner with good vision and good game speed. .............He's 6' 210..............What the hell is wrong with that? ................Plus, he finished the year strong.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/2007-08-31-930527044_x.htm


Dogged by injuries throughout his five years at Texas, Young's phone never rang on draft weekend, so, he signed as a free agent with the running-rich Broncos, in part, he said, because he knew he'd get a fair shake in Denver.

He didn't leave his bravado at the border, either.

"Of course, I felt like I was the best running back coming out of this draft," Young said. "But I got my whole entire career to prove that and not let someone else decide."

Young wrote out a list of 35 goals when he got to Denver, things like "be coaching every day, finishing every run, never leaving a yard on the field."

"I've been checking them off pretty steadily without any setbacks so far," he said. "I had a feeling if I were able to accomplish every goal that without a doubt I would be able to make the team, and I don't have any blank spots on my goals."

He also is free of pain for the first time since his senior year in high school.

"I had more fun than I've had playing football in the last five years. I'm healthy, I can run, I can do things on the field without being hampered by injuries," he said. "It feels good. It almost feels like I'm starting football all over again."

That was before he got injured again playing for the Broncos.

I'm really not sure how you can expect a guy who can't stay healthy with limited carries in 5 + years of college and the pros to somehow magically remain healthy with an increased workload.

I'd use him exactly as Shanahan seems to want to: a back who can do great things in space, is a good receiver out of the backfield, and an emergency backup in case your #1 RB goes down. Limited touches, maximum contribution, and we're not nearly as worried about how to survive him going down for a few games as we would be if he was the primary starter.

~G

BOSSHOGG30
01-18-2008, 02:39 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/2007-08-31-930527044_x.htm



That was before he got injured again playing for the Broncos.

I'm really not sure how you can expect a guy who can't stay healthy with limited carries in 5 + years of college and the pros to somehow magically remain healthy with an increased workload.

I'd use him exactly as Shanahan seems to want to: a back who can do great things in space, is a good receiver out of the backfield, and an emergency backup in case your #1 RB goes down. Limited touches, maximum contribution, and we're not nearly as worried about how to survive him going down for a few games as we would be if he was the primary starter.

~G


What are you doing G! I said the same thing about Travis Henry and I never heard the end of it. Your a brave man.

G_Money
01-18-2008, 02:45 PM
When Travis got here I assumed he would do better in our running system because we're better at creasing the front line of the other team than the orgs he'd played for before. Travis has a punishing running style, but Walter Payton ran for year after year after year because he hit the other guy before that guy hit him, and it was my assumption that Henry would benefit from having more room to see the hit, adjust and hit the other guy without eating all the punishment himself.

I wasn't thrilled about his signing but I wasn't despondent either, and I was hoping that we were finally getting away from an inferior RBBC and into something else.

Little did I realize that Henry runs with his eyes closed and our line no longer opens holes like it used to.

~G

HolyDiver
01-18-2008, 03:13 PM
Clinton Portis doesn't have problems scoring TD's. Charles has plenty of pop. I think you undermine his running ability... your putting to much emphasis on size. He, Hall, and Young would be dangerous!

I'm being sarcastic about his size.................People complain about Young being 210.

BOSSHOGG30
01-18-2008, 03:23 PM
I'm being sarcastic about his size.................People complain about Young being 210.

It has a lot more to do with the running style versus the sheer size. Brandon Jacobs is a big boy, but his runs high. If he can’t keep his pads low he will have bad knees as well as other problems.

Travis Henry is built low to the ground and is solid muscle, but he runs are violent and he digs his cleats into the ground and will lock his joints to gain leverage, this usually results in injury.

Barry Sanders wasn’t the biggest back, but he knew how to fall and avoid big hits.

xzn
01-18-2008, 03:31 PM
Even if Harris and Pears are ready to take over for the long haul we still need to address OT in either the draft or FA since we have virtually no depth at that position. I'd like to see us get a servicable veteran who will not break the bank and a mid-round guy with upside. For example, someone like Todd Steussie in FA and the OT from Vanderbilt.

If we could somehow get Gross even better but the Panthers will probably re-sign him and I'm not sure the other OTs in FA fit our scheme.

xzn
01-18-2008, 03:34 PM
Selvin Young is not just a COP back he is also a very capable receiver out of the backfield or even split out in the slot in multiple WR formations. Besides that he is very aware on the field as it relates to pass block responsibilities and all this makes him an ideal third down back.

If we keep Travis we are set. If we do not than we still need to go get a feature back who can handle 20+ carries per game and slam it in between the tackles in short yardage and goaline.

BOSSHOGG30
01-18-2008, 03:37 PM
If everyone likes Selvin Young so much, or can even muster enough to say he is a decent runningback, what does that mean Jamaal Charles would be since he was the starter over Young?

xzn
01-18-2008, 03:45 PM
Dude, Jamal Charles would look nice in predominantly orange togs... but how highly do you think he'll be taken in April?

BOSSHOGG30
01-18-2008, 03:47 PM
Dude, Jamal Charles would look nice in predominantly orange togs... but how highly do you think he'll be taken in April?

2nd to 3rd round... 2nd based on his amazing 40 time he should display at the combine. But maybe he pulls a hammy or something and then teams will start to question him.... you never know.

xzn
01-18-2008, 03:51 PM
It all depends on what we do with T-Hulk. If we keep him I can't see us spending a first day pick on an RB. Conversly, if we trade him.... well it's really simple math isn't it?

HolyDiver
01-18-2008, 04:58 PM
2nd to 3rd round... 2nd based on his amazing 40 time he should display at the combine. But maybe he pulls a hammy or something and then teams will start to question him.... you never know.


I like Charles...............I just don't think we need him.

TXBRONC
01-18-2008, 09:00 PM
Selvin Young is not just a COP back he is also a very capable receiver out of the backfield or even split out in the slot in multiple WR formations. Besides that he is very aware on the field as it relates to pass block responsibilities and all this makes him an ideal third down back.

If we keep Travis we are set. If we do not than we still need to go get a feature back who can handle 20+ carries per game and slam it in between the tackles in short yardage and goal line.

Yes he's very good receiver coming out of the backfield, but from what I'm gathering the coaching staff is thinking he's not kind of back whose going to be able to give you 20-25 carries a game without his production declining.

omac
01-18-2008, 09:26 PM
If everyone likes Selvin Young so much, or can even muster enough to say he is a decent runningback, what does that mean Jamaal Charles would be since he was the starter over Young?

With all his injuries in college, I don't think we've seen Selvin's full potential yet. Maybe he's an even better back, who knows? Or maybe he's always gonna have injuries ....

No matter, hopefully we don't get any rb's in the first day, we have bigger needs.

Lonestar
01-18-2008, 10:01 PM
Yes he's very good receiver coming out of the backfield, but from what I'm gathering the coaching staff is thinking he's not kind of back whose going to be able to give you 20-25 carries a game without his production declining.

You heard correctly I think it was during mikey's press conference.. or it was reported somewhere.. I heard/saw it also..

Lonestar
01-18-2008, 10:05 PM
With all his injuries in college, I don't think we've seen Selvin's full potential yet. Maybe he's an even better back, who knows? Or maybe he's always gonna have injuries ....

No matter, hopefully we don't get any rb's in the first day, we have bigger needs.

I hope not either but many on here believe we need premier RB..

I think everyone is indeed concerned that Young does not have the body type to withstand a 16++ games season ad give them consistent production for 20+ carries a game..

I would think IF they get better/bigger OLINE in here that he might be able to handle more than he did this year.. Getting tackled from behind is far less punishing than getting nailed head on in the hole or back field.

Scarface
01-19-2008, 08:44 AM
I agree with most of the article. We need a workhorse back: think Michael Turner, free agent. Hall and Young are very interesting change-of-pace backs.

We need a real left tackle: think Jordan Gross, free agent.

Kuper, Holland, Hamilton can fight it out for the guard spots. I really don't want Pears AND Harris starting. Hamilton should move in to center when Nalen finally does step down.

We need help at DT, linebacker, safety.

Last year Michael Turner was the pipedream that annoyed the hell out of me because I knew we'd never sign him. This year he may be a realistic option we have a chance of signing since we won't have to give up draft picks to a division rival. A 2 back rotation with Turner and Young would be fun to watch.

xzn
01-19-2008, 01:26 PM
Yes he's very good receiver coming out of the backfield, but from what I'm gathering the coaching staff is thinking he's not kind of back whose going to be able to give you 20-25 carries a game without his production declining.

Right. He is an ideal "third down" back. Not a feature back. If we keep Henry I think we have that guy, at least for a couple of years. I could see taking a second day flyer, but I doubt we go RB on the first day unless someone slips and is just an unbelievable value pick.

Lonestar
01-19-2008, 04:04 PM
Last year Michael Turner was the pipedream that annoyed the hell out of me because I knew we'd never sign him. This year he may be a realistic option we have a chance of signing since we won't have to give up draft picks to a division rival. A 2 back rotation with Turner and Young would be fun to watch.


I'll bet SAN tags him this year after all LT is getting a lot of miles on him..

lex
01-19-2008, 04:05 PM
Right. He is an ideal "third down" back. Not a feature back. If we keep Henry I think we have that guy, at least for a couple of years. I could see taking a second day flyer, but I doubt we go RB on the first day unless someone slips and is just an unbelievable value pick.

Except, Henry didnt stay healthy last season and he is one fun night away from peeing hot again. Plus he is coming up on 30.

xzn
01-19-2008, 04:16 PM
Except, Henry didnt stay healthy last season and he is one fun night away from peeing hot again. Plus he is coming up on 30.

Which is why I could see us "taking a second day flyer". But RB is not a priority for our first two picks on Day One.

UNLESS, there is an unbelievable value...

Watchthemiddle
01-19-2008, 04:23 PM
Which is why I could see us "taking a second day flyer". But RB is not a priority for our first two picks on Day One.

UNLESS, there is an unbelievable value...

Tell that to Shanahan. We all know he has man crushes on RB's and if he can grab a stud early, I see him doing so.

He takes a lot of pride in our running game and how it has dominated the NFL now for 10 seasons.

I could see him passing on our "real" needs and go for a RB.

All that said, I hope he realizes that he doesn't need to get one early, because he has had so much success finding RB's in later rounds.

lex
01-19-2008, 04:26 PM
Which is why I could see us "taking a second day flyer". But RB is not a priority for our first two picks on Day One.

UNLESS, there is an unbelievable value...


It makes more sense to draft a RB one day one and sign a DT and Safety than it does to draft one the second day. BTW, if youre going to draft a RB you might as well either draft a good one or get by with one since those are basically the two schools of thought. If youre going to draft one in the 4th, why not wait until the 7th or sign a UFA and save the draft pick for something else since youre basically committing to the idea that you dont need THAT great of a RB?

xzn
01-19-2008, 06:26 PM
It makes more sense to draft a RB one day one and sign a DT and Safety than it does to draft one the second day. BTW, if youre going to draft a RB you might as well either draft a good one or get by with one since those are basically the two schools of thought. If youre going to draft one in the 4th, why not wait until the 7th or sign a UFA and save the draft pick for something else since youre basically committing to the idea that you dont need THAT great of a RB?

You take a mid-round RB to compete with Andre Hall.

lex
01-19-2008, 11:14 PM
You take a mid-round RB to compete with Andre Hall.

NO! Thats a waste of a pick. Since one of the beliefs is that we can plug anyone in there and he will do well, why would you waste a mid round pick if you are of that belief?

Simple Jaded
01-20-2008, 12:01 AM
"......and it fits with the philosophy espoused by previous coordinators under Mike Shanahan"


Is "Espoused" another word for: "Do it my way or you're fired!" ??????

Simple Jaded
01-20-2008, 12:20 AM
Also, if the Broncos are lucky enough to land Jordan Gross, they should leave him at RT where he's most comfortable.

And I actually like the idea of Kuper starting at LT a hell of a lot more than I do Harris. But any plan that leaves Ben Hamilton starting anywhere should be discarded......

broncogirl7
01-20-2008, 02:20 AM
Tell that to Shanahan. We all know he has man crushes on RB's and if he can grab a stud early, I see him doing so.

He takes a lot of pride in our running game and how it has dominated the NFL now for 10 seasons.

I could see him passing on our "real" needs and go for a RB.

All that said, I hope he realizes that he doesn't need to get one early, because he has had so much success finding RB's in later rounds.

That will totally piss me off if he does that...
We must remain positive that he will do the right thing and go for defensive tackles, linebackers, ect. Let's work on the lines, Shanahan.

Bozo Jr.
01-20-2008, 03:50 AM
That will totally piss me off if he does that...
We must remain positive that he will do the right thing and go for defensive tackles, linebackers, ect. Let's work on the lines, Shanahan.

I totally agree. We lost in the trenches on both sides of the ball all season!! So working on the lines must come first. Then take a look at OLB's, and a good safety. IF we can't pick up a solid safety, I wouldn't be completely crushed as I haven't ruled out Abdullah from winning the starting spot in '08. If Henry doesn't restructure, then I think we can comb the free agents for a dependable RB, and a possible WR to replace Walker. Michael Turner, and Bryant Johnson look swell to me!

:salute:

lex
01-20-2008, 09:49 AM
That will totally piss me off if he does that...
We must remain positive that he will do the right thing and go for defensive tackles, linebackers, ect. Let's work on the lines, Shanahan.

If we go after defensive tackles thats only going to extend the learning curve yet another year for an already young defensive line. I used to be a proponent of getting a DT but given how this season went, Id rather go after upgrades that would be more immediate.


Its important to revisit our history and what has worked for us. When we won SBs we had an elite running game which included an elite RB. Our running game meant we could go up against the best defenses in the NFL on the road in the playoffs and still be able to run the ball. We dont have that now. The idea that we are just as well off with anyone in there is a myth. There is a big difference between Terrell Davis and the other low round picks we have plugged in there. We got lucky with Terrell. The RB matters and its important for us to be able to run the ball on the best teams in the most dire of circumstances. When we won SBs, we didnt have elite DLs. They were dominant at times but they werent dominant. We had CBs that were good but not great. We had a good defense that was helped by having a dominant running game.

gobroncsnv
01-20-2008, 02:30 PM
Then again, there's not too much of a learning curve on Dline if you get the right guys. Julius Peppers, Warren Sapp, and many others had great rookie years. The learning curve thing is important, but if a kid comes out with strength and speed in his corner, I could live with that.

xzn
01-20-2008, 02:54 PM
NO! Thats a waste of a pick. Since one of the beliefs is that we can plug anyone in there and he will do well, why would you waste a mid round pick if you are of that belief?

I disagree. "Anyone" is a mid-round pick, not just "anyone".

lex
01-20-2008, 03:04 PM
I disagree. "Anyone" is a mid-round pick, not just "anyone".

Theres no half-pregnant. Either the quality of the RB matters or it doesnt.

Stargazer
01-21-2008, 04:39 AM
Tell that to Shanahan. We all know he has man crushes on RB's and if he can grab a stud early, I see him doing so.

He takes a lot of pride in our running game and how it has dominated the NFL now for 10 seasons.

I could see him passing on our "real" needs and go for a RB.

All that said, I hope he realizes that he doesn't need to get one early, because he has had so much success finding RB's in later rounds.

I agree if he sees a RB to take early, he will do it.

But, the problem with the great success at finding RB's later in the rounds. Well, TD was a 6th round gem. Portis was taken in the 2nd. Anderson went for 1500 yards, but it turns out he was a 1 year wonder. So really the Broncos have had only great success with one RB in regards to late round prospects. And what further throws that logic somewhat out the window. Signing Henry. An injury-prone, aging RB to a hefty contract.

There's definately been a lack of talent at the RB position where only 2 RB's have had truely great success. Shanny needs to just go out and draft a special RB high. The late rounders have had success because of the scheme, not because of individual great talent.

Stargazer
01-21-2008, 05:38 AM
And I will never buy the plug & play theory. And Shanny always finds late rounders/UDFA to run the ball. The only players that have impose fear in a defense have been TD & Portis. TD was a gem, like how Tom Brady was a gem for NE in the late rounds. Players like these do not come around often late in the draft. Portis, who had lots of talent coming out of the draft showcased his great skills & talent in the NFL.

I'm just tired of the mantra that Shanny finds dumpster players who he makes successful. Get some real f'n talent back there and stop dumpster diving. If this offense is predicated on the run. Which I do find bizare this team hardly ever spends a top pick on a RB. Stop looking at the leftovers. And start drafting a RB who is talented with gifted skills. Who have the real great potential of dominating in the NFL with our scheme which is running the football.

gobroncsnv
01-21-2008, 08:05 AM
But even in a crappy year like the one just finished, we ended the season in the top 10 for rushing. And a lot of that was in spite of oline troubles, needing to introduce them to each other, week in, week out. RB is not our biggest problem. The best thing we could do to help out our rushing attack would be to improve on time of possession... and that means getting better on both sides of the LOS, particularly on Dline. If we can't stop the other guys, we don't get as many opportunities to run the ball.

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
01-21-2008, 08:33 AM
Hall is Mike from last yr and Young cant carry the load

Npba900
01-21-2008, 05:44 PM
But even in a crappy year like the one just finished, we ended the season in the top 10 for rushing. And a lot of that was in spite of oline troubles, needing to introduce them to each other, week in, week out. RB is not our biggest problem. The best thing we could do to help out our rushing attack would be to improve on time of possession... and that means getting better on both sides of the LOS, particularly on Dline. If we can't stop the other guys, we don't get as many opportunities to run the ball.

I think finishing in the top 10 rushing was more of a reflection how the running game was operating in between the 20's; However, are running game was not nearly in the top 10 inside the Red Zone!!!!

broncogirl7
01-21-2008, 06:00 PM
I don't get people not having faith in Selvin. He had a pretty damn good year.
140 carries for 729 yards. Give the guy the ball more and I think he will get a 1000yard season next year.

Npba900
01-21-2008, 06:25 PM
I don't get people not having faith in Selvin. He had a pretty damn good year.
140 carries for 729 yards. Give the guy the ball more and I think he will get a 1000yard season next year.

Shanahan has elaborated that Selvin is not an every down back due the number of times Seldon was dinged up last season.

broncogirl7
01-21-2008, 07:04 PM
Shanahan has elaborated that Selvin is not an every down back due the number of times Seldon was dinged up last season.

I also think one of the reasons Shanahan doesn't express complete confidence in Selvin is to basically keep him guessing and trying to do better.
It's a management technique, I don't like it but it is what it is...

gobroncsnv
01-22-2008, 12:28 AM
I think finishing in the top 10 rushing was more of a reflection how the running game was operating in between the 20's; However, are running game was not nearly in the top 10 inside the Red Zone!!!!

Hence my alluding to oline troubles. I think our line improves next year. We get some guys back, and the ones that got to play this year gained some good experience. Without good blocking, pretty much every "great" running back turns ordinary. A team needs more than "skill" positions, and pretty much, it holds true that the better you are at the line of scrimmage, it improves everyone else. Faster than anything else.

HolyDiver
01-22-2008, 08:40 AM
Nalen will be 37 and Hamilton 31..............We will have to replace these guys eventually,might as well do it now. I hope they both retire..................Myers and Kuper did great in their first years starting. I was very pleased with both of those guys................Seems like some here are never happy..............Can't have Hall of Fame players at every position.

gobroncsnv
01-22-2008, 11:19 AM
Nalen and Hamilton have both indicated that they are returning. They were pretty solid chunks in our line. Our biggest concerns would have to be at tackle, IMO.

mclark
01-22-2008, 11:22 AM
I'll bet SAN tags him this year after all LT is getting a lot of miles on him..

They are going to make a backup running back their franchise player? I don't see it. If they do, I'll salute you.

mclark
01-22-2008, 11:26 AM
Last year Michael Turner was the pipedream that annoyed the hell out of me because I knew we'd never sign him. This year he may be a realistic option we have a chance of signing since we won't have to give up draft picks to a division rival. A 2 back rotation with Turner and Young would be fun to watch.

And Turner might not cost as much this season with so many good backs in the draft. Teams may not choose to bid up Turner's price.

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
01-22-2008, 11:31 AM
Turner value has went away. Ill ratha draft one

HolyDiver
01-22-2008, 11:34 AM
Shanahan has elaborated that Selvin is not an every down back due the number of times Seldon was dinged up last season.

Shanahan might have said that to encourage Young to add weight in the offseason..........I think he has plenty of confidence in Selvin.

MHCBill
01-22-2008, 11:36 AM
Turner value has went away. Ill ratha draft one
Where did Turner's value go?

mclark
01-22-2008, 11:40 AM
Turner value has went away. Ill ratha draft one

Please explain how Turner now has no value.

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
01-22-2008, 11:41 AM
Turner is not as hot as he was last yr/ When Tenn was willin to give up a 1st for him/ In a draft with all these studs who will be cheaper ill pass.

MHCBill
01-22-2008, 11:43 AM
Turner is not as hot as he was last yr/ When Tenn was willin to give up a 1st for him/ In a draft with all these studs who will be cheaper ill pass.Sorry, doesn't really explain where Turner's value has gone.

Just another typical response. I think I'll say "Turner's value is gone...", but you have no proof or evidence to support your claim.

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
01-22-2008, 11:44 AM
Please explain how Turner now has no value.

Not 0 value. Turner or Barber? Turner is goin to play for the team that gambles and pays him alot. That wont be us/ Look at Travis

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
01-22-2008, 11:46 AM
Sorry, doesn't really explain where Turner's value has gone.

Just another typical response. I think I'll say "Turner's value is gone...", but you have no proof or evidence to support your claim.

Last yr around this time everybody was on Turners Jock/ Now? hardly no1.

Zweems56
01-22-2008, 05:49 PM
Last yr around this time everybody was on Turners Jock/ Now? hardly no1.

Thats because its not officially the offseason yet. As soon as the superbowl is over and the draft starts coming up, people will jump all over his jock yet again.

tubby
01-22-2008, 05:54 PM
Thats because its not officially the offseason yet. As soon as the superbowl is over and the draft starts coming up, people will jump all over his jock yet again.

Your logic has no place in this thread, Zweems.

You found your little buddy.......:heh:

Zweems56
01-22-2008, 05:55 PM
Your logic has no place in this thread, Zweems.

You found your little buddy.......:heh:

Tell me about it...

Lonestar
01-22-2008, 05:58 PM
Nalen will be 37 and Hamilton 31..............We will have to replace these guys eventually,might as well do it now. I hope they both retire..................Myers and Kuper did great in their first years starting. I was very pleased with both of those guys................Seems like some here are never happy..............Can't have Hall of Fame players at every position.


37 is getting close to hanging them up 31 has many good years ahead of him.. In many cases having savvy old timers on the OLINE is real good because that generally means they know each other moves it is automatic verses that split second of hesitation when thinking about what is he gonna do. One of the reason KC's OLINE and running game was so good for so long..

Yes it is time to get some backups there to take over in the next few years.. BUT OLINE is not somewhere that when the 40 times goes down it makes a difference, this is an experience spot that the more you have the better you get..

tubby
01-22-2008, 06:01 PM
Tell me about it...

:snicker: is now :heh:

Lonestar
01-22-2008, 06:02 PM
They are going to make a backup running back their franchise player? I don't see it. If they do, I'll salute you.

I was listening to the game on the radio, teh annoucers actually made a BIG thing was made about tuner being LOUSY at pass catching that was the reason that splores came in on 3rd and long..

As good as he is, I would not want to spend a ton of money on a one dimensional RB..

Zweems56
01-22-2008, 06:03 PM
:snicker: is now :heh:

THANK YOU! I've been doing :lol: :heh: is so much better!

tubby
01-22-2008, 06:15 PM
THANK YOU! I've been doing :lol: :heh: is so much better!

heh

:heh:

SmilinAssasSin27
01-22-2008, 11:47 PM
I will agree that Turner's value has decreased...and support the argument.

1) The draft is STACKED w/ very good RBs and they won't cost nearly as much.

2) He'll be expensive. At least it won't take draft picks like last year, but he'll want PAID.

3) His performance. He showed he's "good." He looked below average vs NE in the playoff when the stage was set for him to blow up. He didn't...and it will cost him. The 3rd RB, Sproles, took the limelight from him cuz he actually showed up to play.

Stargazer
01-23-2008, 04:09 AM
And Turner might not cost as much this season with so many good backs in the draft. Teams may not choose to bid up Turner's price.

Why go the Turner route when you can find a good RB in a deep draft class this year? Who will most likely come cheaper. Who has no NFL wear and tear. Who is younger at the position?

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
01-23-2008, 06:41 AM
I will agree that Turner's value has decreased...and support the argument.

1) The draft is STACKED w/ very good RBs and they won't cost nearly as much.

2) He'll be expensive. At least it won't take draft picks like last year, but he'll want PAID.

3) His performance. He showed he's "good." He looked below average vs NE in the playoff when the stage was set for him to blow up. He didn't...and it will cost him. The 3rd RB, Sproles, took the limelight from him cuz he actually showed up to play.

:beer::beer:

MHCBill
01-23-2008, 09:25 AM
I'm not neccessarily saying we should pursue Turner, but the statement was made that his value has gone down.

I say not.

One game does not make your value go down.

Turner is better than any running back on our current roster in my opinion. Does that mean I think we should sign him as a free agent? No.

We have more pressing needs and I would be more than happy entering next season with Hall, Young, and either a vet back-up or a late round pick.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-23-2008, 09:31 AM
I think his overall production was a bit disappointing compared to 2006. His play, or lack thereof, allowed Sproles to enter into the mix. Once that happened he saw an even more diminished role. In a season where LT was banged up, he had 9 fewer carries than in 2006 and his average ypc was down from 6.3 to 4.5. Still solid, but the 6.3 had folks drooling.

I'm not saying he sux or wouldn't help, but I definitely see where his value was at it's peak 12 months ago.

atwater27
01-23-2008, 09:34 AM
Hall is Mike from last yr and Young cant carry the load

Wrong
Hall is Hall from last year and Young was a rookie too. Your extrapolation is dead wrong.

atwater27
01-23-2008, 09:41 AM
Last yr around this time everybody was on Turners Jock/ Now? hardly no1.

Turner will get paid. But unlike yourself, his money will actually be real.

atwater27
01-23-2008, 09:46 AM
Turners ypc went down because Gates was injured and Rivers was injured. The Pats loaded up for the run all game. So did the Colts. The Chargers also barely used the guy all season. Sproles has stolen carries from him because of his 3rd down back type ability.
I'd take Turner in a heartbeat. He is an absolutely perfect fit in Denver. Unfortunately, we have bigger needs on defense for it to be a smart move, unless it was for the right price. he will command big bucks.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-23-2008, 09:50 AM
I think he still gets paid, but he'd have made more last year. Weak draft RB class and he was awesome in 2006. For whatever reason his numbers were down...they were down. If dude is the monster everyone thinks he is, he wouldn't have had FEWER carries during a season in which LT was banged up. LT set the frickin TD record last year and he still managed over 500 yards. Ya don't think people filled the box in 06? Gates ain't a blocker. His absence is nullified by the acquisition of Chambers and emergance of Jackson. they were dangerous thru the air more so this year than in 06.

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
01-23-2008, 09:53 AM
Turner will get paid. But unlike yourself, his money will actually be real.

:lol::lol::lol::laugh:

haroldthebarrel
01-25-2008, 11:44 AM
Why cant we get a real offensive tackle.
Look how Roaf alone transcended the Chiefs offense. Look what Thomas did to the Browns.
I want dominance in the trenches. I want people who can push away the other if needed.

And I want a system with talent. I am tired of scheming around instead of having talent that are able to make a play on broken plays.

haroldthebarrel
01-25-2008, 11:46 AM
Why pursue Turner when you have a draft class with almost legendary quality at rb.

Is it just me or do other see the comparison between Ray Rice and Terrel Davis?

Zweems56
01-25-2008, 01:50 PM
Why pursue Turner when you have a draft class with almost legendary quality at rb.

Is it just me or do other see the comparison between Ray Rice and Terrel Davis?

TY harold. Been preaching it. Rutgers homer here though :heh:

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
01-25-2008, 01:57 PM
Why pursue Turner when you have a draft class with almost legendary quality at rb.

Is it just me or do other see the comparison between Ray Rice and Terrel Davis?

No worries turner aint on our radar. This class is wayyyyyyyyyy 2 deep. Its so many backs in this class thats better prospects than turner. After all turner is famous for one run.

EMB6903
01-25-2008, 02:09 PM
Theres not a chance we go after Turner with this Class coming up. Who ever thinks this is crazy.

Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal
01-25-2008, 02:10 PM
Wassup son^^

Npba900
01-26-2008, 07:27 PM
Why cant we get a real offensive tackle.
Look how Roaf alone transcended the Chiefs offense. Look what Thomas did to the Browns.
I want dominance in the trenches. I want people who can push away the other if needed.

And I want a system with talent. I am tired of scheming around instead of having talent that are able to make a play on broken plays.

Scheming and using trick plays to hide your lack of talent is so Late 1990's, teams today are like packs of wolves, they will spot your weakness's and rip you apart! Shanny can ill-afford to resort to trick plays inside the Red Zone in 2008 b/c like in 2007 it just won't work.

Hopefully, Denver goes after Gross really hard during FA. Gross will soldify Cutlers blind side and bring veteran leadership. Also, let's not forget there will be 2nd tier FA guards and tackles who won't command much money at all and they're only 26-30 years old and they maybe better than some of the current O-lineman we have now.

Shanahan may need his head examin if he thinks "Harris" is the answer for 2008!

HolyDiver
01-28-2008, 03:05 PM
Scheming and using trick plays to hide your lack of talent is so Late 1990's, teams today are like packs of wolves, they will spot your weakness's and rip you apart! Shanny can ill-afford to resort to trick plays inside the Red Zone in 2008 b/c like in 2007 it just won't work.

Hopefully, Denver goes after Gross really hard during FA. Gross will soldify Cutlers blind side and bring veteran leadership. Also, let's not forget there will be 2nd tier FA guards and tackles who won't command much money at all and they're only 26-30 years old and they maybe better than some of the current O-lineman we have now.

Shanahan may need his head examin if he thinks "Harris" is the answer for 2008!


Pears was the answer in 2006.................Starting Left Tackle after Lepsis went down and he didn't do bad at all. I think Harris is even a step above him................So, I'm not on the O-line panic bandwagon like alot of you.

MHCBill
01-28-2008, 03:53 PM
Scheming and using trick plays to hide your lack of talent is so Late 1990's, teams today are like packs of wolves, they will spot your weakness's and rip you apart! Shanny can ill-afford to resort to trick plays inside the Red Zone in 2008 b/c like in 2007 it just won't work.

Hopefully, Denver goes after Gross really hard during FA. Gross will soldify Cutlers blind side and bring veteran leadership. Also, let's not forget there will be 2nd tier FA guards and tackles who won't command much money at all and they're only 26-30 years old and they maybe better than some of the current O-lineman we have now.

Shanahan may need his head examin if he thinks "Harris" is the answer for 2008!Gross is a premium Right Tackle... average left tackle. He will not be protecting Cutler's blind side.

Pears, Harris, and Kuper will be battling it out at LT. Assuming Hamilton and Nalen are back healthy.