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View Full Version : Peyton Hillis needs to fight for a spot on Sundays



Lonestar
11-18-2009, 03:37 PM
By Jeff Legwold
The Denver Post

Posted: 11/17/2009 01:00:00 AM MST


Peyton Hillis (Denver Post file photo)Welcome back and keep the queries coming

Today's comes from Bret Swigle:

Q: Do you have any idea why Josh McDaniels will not give Peyton Hillis a chance to get on the football field. (McDaniels) was high on him in training camp, Hillis had a couple of special-teams mistakes, and now he is nowhere to be found. Josh has to realize from watching him last year that he is a talented football player. Hillis can block, run, and catch. I may be totally reaching, but my gut tells me that Josh is a stubborn guy who doesn't like to change his mind if someone gets in his doghouse. When your offense can't move the ball, it's time to swallow some pride and put the best players on the field. What's your opinion on Josh's ability to evaluate talent and his willingness to utilize it?

A: Bret, this is a common question these days. Because Hillis led the injury-riddled Broncos in rushing last season, plenty of folks wonder why he's fourth on the depth chart at running back and second on the depth chart at fullback — linebacker Spencer Larsen started there Sunday against the Redskins.

Basically the issue for non-starters comes down to special teams and practice through the week. In Hillis' case, the Broncos are not going to carry four running backs on the 45-man gameday roster very often, so that means Hillis has to get himself past one of the other three guys at the position in order to be in uniform.

With Larsen being involved with so many things on special teams, it's going to be difficult for Hillis to get in the mix there or as the lead fullback. He did when Larsen was hurt, but Larsen is one of their best tacklers on special teams so he will always be difficult to dislodge.

The Broncos say while Hillis hasn't been able to vault over anybody in front of him at running back, there's no given order when each week begins. The guys who have the best week of practice, and have significant roles on special teams, will be in uniform.

That's their position, and they appear to be truthful in that regard. They gave Hillis an opportunity to be the kickoff returner early in the season, and he lost a fumble against Cleveland and hasn't had a return since.

That was an ill-timed mistake, because the special-teams units have taken a lot of heat about mistakes this season. So, patience is not at a premium there and that means there is opportunity for the guys who perform when the heat's on.

It may sound like a quick trigger to pull a guy after one lost fumble, but Correll Buckhalter fumbled on his second carry Sunday and didn't get another carry in the game, so mistakes matter to this staff and there are consequences.

Hillis has to convince them he's ready for more duty, especially on special teams, and he's going to have to do it Wednesday through Saturday. He was held out of the Steelers game because he had missed a week of practice to return home and deal with a death in his family, and he was an inactive for the Redskins game.

They award black jerseys to the players who've been particularly good in practice the previous week, and Hillis has not been awarded one of those yet this season while a player in a similar situation as far as the depth chart, Jarvis Moss, has been given one several times this season.

It's a new staff, and it expects different things. Players have to adjust.

Hillis' position is difficult because Buckhalter and LaMont Jordan have been around the league for some time. They know all the little things coaches want to see — how to run in practice, how to jump out of line and into the play when they ask somebody to run something. They're proactive because they know what it takes to get on the field.

Hillis is going to have to push harder and not let the frustration get to him. He may not break through every time, but he has to continue to make their decisions difficult.

As far as McDaniels overall as the team's personnel chief, I think he has a clear idea of what he wants in players. He has shown himself to be quick to lean on older players in free agency, and sometimes that can create salary cap issues if the signings don't consistently work out or there is a rash of injuries.

Running back J.J. Arrington, for example, came for his visit in March on crutches and never played a down for the Broncos despite having signed a deal. So although he's not on the roster, he's still counts against the salary cap.

McDaniels does draft a short board, like Bill Belichick, which means the Broncos simply remove the players they don't want, or believe don't fit their profile or their schemes, even if they have given those players draftable grades.

That works too, but sometimes teams who use the practice reach some because they don't have enough, say, third-round grades on the board when their turn in the third round comes, so they take a player with a fourth-round-or-later grade.

Overall, however, McDaniels can't be judged in that regard until he has the opportunity to work a few drafts and see what roles those players have in the future.

http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_13804264

claymore
11-18-2009, 03:43 PM
We should trade Hillis for 2 x 7th round picks, and a game managing FB before everyone finds out he has diabeetees.

I dont know about that, but something is missing.

broncofaninfla
11-18-2009, 03:54 PM
I dont know about that, but something is missing.

I'll never buy that Lamont Jordan can contribute more to this team than Peyton Hillis, I agree there is more to the story. If we are not going to play the kid, cut him so he can sign with somebody who will play him. The kid has shown he can play in this league, I wish he would get a chance with us but McD looks like he will stick with the fumbling tandem of Buck and Moreno.

rcsodak
11-18-2009, 04:19 PM
I'll never buy that Lamont Jordan can contribute more to this team than Peyton Hillis, I agree there is more to the story. If we are not going to play the kid, cut him so he can sign with somebody who will play him. The kid has shown he can play in this league, I wish he would get a chance with us but McD looks like he will stick with the fumbling tandem of Buck and Moreno.

He's holding him back as a secret weapon. He'll have the freshest legs and a mountain on his back.

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
11-18-2009, 04:35 PM
Peyton Hillis is athletic, the problem is that he's dumb as a rock.

"Blockin in the back is a penalty!?!? Since when!?!?

GEM
11-18-2009, 04:45 PM
If you're telling me that Hillis can't take Jordan's place there is either some favoritism going on or Hillis just isn't that good.

Requiem / The Dagda
11-18-2009, 04:48 PM
Hillis isn't as good.

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
11-18-2009, 04:51 PM
If you're telling me that Hillis can't take Jordan's place there is either some favoritism going on or Hillis just isn't that good.

I never understood why we took Jordan over Darius Walker in the first place. Darius is the man.

Requiem / The Dagda
11-18-2009, 04:54 PM
I never understood why we took Jordan over Darius Walker in the first place. Darius is the man.

Jordan spent time in the system.

Buff
11-18-2009, 04:56 PM
I'm convinced Lamont Jordan is a charity case. Did anyone see him catch that kickoff on Sunday? What does he weigh these days, 325?

Hillis has looked bad everytime they've given him an opportunity this year. But anyone who saw him play in New York against the Jets last year or in Atlanta against the Falcons knows that there's more to his game than he has shown this year.

It's on Peyton to pull his head out of his ass and perform.

claymore
11-18-2009, 04:58 PM
I'm convinced Lamont Jordan is a charity case. Did anyone see him catch that kickoff on Sunday? What does he weigh these days, 325?

Hillis has looked bad everytime they've given him an opportunity this year. But anyone who saw him play in New York against the Jets last year or in Atlanta against the Falcons knows that there's more to his game than he has shown this year.

It's on Peyton to pull his head out of his ass and perform.

He may need to buy into the system.

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
11-18-2009, 04:58 PM
It's on Peyton to pull his head out of his ass and perform.


Precisely, and before he does that McD is not obligated to even have him dressed. No player belongs on the field if they're not going to play. That's been his philosophy the whole time; Like when he showed Marshall that the team could win without him and that turned out beautifully.

Superchop 7
11-18-2009, 04:58 PM
I have seen him play live.

The kid is a beast.

Whatever Josh, keep your Simms and your Bergers, winning is overrated..............

Dreadnought
11-18-2009, 06:21 PM
I'm convinced Lamont Jordan is a charity case. Did anyone see him catch that kickoff on Sunday? What does he weigh these days, 325?

Hillis has looked bad everytime they've given him an opportunity this year. But anyone who saw him play in New York against the Jets last year or in Atlanta against the Falcons knows that there's more to his game than he has shown this year.

It's on Peyton to pull his head out of his ass and perform.

I'm convinced Jordan is only on this roster because he is a former Patriot. 325 sounds about right, but he plays a lot slower than that.

I rewatched both the 2008 Falcons and Jets games during the bye week, and those told me that its McD needs to get his head out of his Ass, not Hillis. We haven't seen running like that since, well, Hillis was lined up as RB. It increasingly looks like pure McDaniels stubbornness to me.

Ravage!!!
11-18-2009, 06:31 PM
The answer was same as the question.

The question is whether Hillis is in the doghouse and if McDaniels has a hard time letting people OUT of the doghouse once in.

So how is it that not being ahead of Jordan isn't because of being in the doghouse and not getting out?

NO ONE can convince me for a second that Hillis hasn't proved to be much more valuable than Jordan. Hillis got in the doghouse for fumbling? How come our rookie isn't DEEP in the doghouse then? Because he was drafted by this staff? I don't know. Just another favorite player that won't be on the roster next season.

Buff
11-18-2009, 06:32 PM
I'm convinced Jordan is only on this roster because he is a former Patriot. 325 sounds about right, but he plays a lot slower than that.

I rewatched both the 2008 Falcons and Jets games during the bye week, and those told me that its McD needs to get his head out of his Ass, not Hillis. We haven't seen running like that since, well, Hillis was lined up as RB. It increasingly looks like pure McDaniels stubbornness to me.

I think it's probably a little of both. McDaniels probably doesn't need to take such a hard line and keep him off the field entirely, but Hillis has to understand that you can't fumble away opportunities and commit stupid penalties. Especially when you're a 7th round pick and a bit of a "tweener."

Dean
11-18-2009, 07:05 PM
Hillis is listed as the third kick return man. I don't see LaMont Jordan listed anywhere. So, is the statement about contribution to special teams real or just a ploy to defelect scrutiny?

If Hillis just can't cut it, tell us so. I have all the smoke that I need.

broncofaninfla
11-18-2009, 08:45 PM
I think it's probably a little of both. McDaniels probably doesn't need to take such a hard line and keep him off the field entirely, but Hillis has to understand that you can't fumble away opportunities and commit stupid penalties. Especially when you're a 7th round pick and a bit of a "tweener."

You can throw the fumble theory out. Moreno and Buck have been laying in on the turf all season long. Hillis lost one fumble and it came on a kick off return, WTF was he doing returning kicks? He needs to be running and catching the ball.
His lack of playing time was ok when we were winning but we've lost three in a row and he has been inactive for two of those. Our stubborn rookie coach needs to rethink things, watch last years game tape and figure out a way to get this kid some reps to help this team win again. That can't happen with him on the bench.

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
11-18-2009, 08:50 PM
The only thing I miss about Hillis was the Mile High Salute.

I love the guy, but I don't kid myself - He's dumb as a rock.

I refuse to be ridiculous.

Lonestar
11-18-2009, 08:52 PM
The only thing I miss about Hillis was the Mile High Salute.

I love the guy, but I don't kid myself - He's dumb as a rock.

I refuse to be ridiculous.


and you know this how?

broncofaninfla
11-18-2009, 09:16 PM
The only thing I miss about Hillis was the Mile High Salute.

I love the guy, but I don't kid myself - He's dumb as a rock.

I refuse to be ridiculous.

OK, I'll take the bait. How is Hillis dumb as a rock? This based on his academic achievements or your perception of him from your living room?

Requiem / The Dagda
11-18-2009, 09:20 PM
If Peyton Hills offered something unique in order to help the Broncos win, I doubt McDaniels would be holding him back. Some people post really funny stuff.

horsepig
11-18-2009, 09:46 PM
When I see Jordan able to pull up his own jock strap, I'll bite on the Hillis v Jordan debate.

In the mean time I really miss Hillis's 17 yard break outs. How about some of the beautiful catches he made out of the backfield? The short yardage TD's.

McD watches lots of game tapes, does he just look the other way, was he up getting coffee? Did Hillis say something nasty about Josh's wife?

You tell me why Jordan is ahead of Hillis on the depth chart.

WARHORSE
11-19-2009, 04:20 AM
Hillis began the year on STs. And I can understand that if you dont have a starting role that your special teams play determines whether you suit up or not.

Well, does anyone any standout ST plays involving Hillis? I dont remember many tackles or anything, so, if by chance the coaching staff is attributing some of the special teams screw up to Hillis........well, that would explain alot.


With that being said, the guy was far more productive than Knowshon or Buck.


Just speakin the trut. :coffee:

broncofaninfla
11-19-2009, 06:26 AM
If Peyton Hills offered something unique in order to help the Broncos win, I doubt McDaniels would be holding him back. Some people post really funny stuff.

He offers power running and a better set of hands than any RB on our roster.

I agree, some people DO post some funny stuff, especially when they talk about Moreno like he is the second coming of TD when he stats don't come close to what Hillis did as a rookie.

Dirk
11-19-2009, 08:31 AM
Either way, I would like to see Hillis with some play time.

I also agree that if McD isn't going to play him, I'm sure Kubes would love him down in Houston! Let the kid go so he can play if you aren't going to play him.

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
11-19-2009, 08:40 AM
and you know this how?

Every time the man has ever talked on camera he made himself look like a caveman. On the field he looks like a knuckle dragger. Doesn't change the fact that he's a versatile and talented running back. Probably the trick up McDaniels' sleeve. You know there's not a single white running-back starting in the NFL?
He's an excellent FB but in McDaniels' system fullbacks hardly touch the grass, and he's been dealing with a family emergency lately so he hasn't been dressed.

dogfish
11-19-2009, 10:41 AM
Hillis isn't as good.

post reported

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
11-19-2009, 11:14 AM
Either way, I would like to see Hillis with some play time.

I also agree that if McD isn't going to play him, I'm sure Kubes would love him down in Houston! Let the kid go so he can play if you aren't going to play him.

Too bad the trade deadline is week 6, could have had some high draft picks possibly.

Requiem / The Dagda
11-19-2009, 05:33 PM
He offers power running and a better set of hands than any RB on our roster.

Then why is he not on the field?

The coaches have a chance to evaluate their players on a weekly basis. Performing in practice and on Sunday's. I'll take Peyton not getting reps at running back, full back or special teams as of late (along with being inactive) as being indicative that he is not doing what is necessary of him week in and week out to prepare and play a role on this team; not some fairyland MMQB talk that the coach doesn't like him as a player.


I agree, some people DO post some funny stuff, especially when they talk about Moreno like he is the second coming of TD when he stats don't come close to what Hillis did as a rookie.

I've been a Moreno fan a long time, I think he is going to be a great player. Knowshon is the league's leading rookie rusher and is on pace for a season of total offense well over a thousand yards. Moreno hasn't played in as many games as Hillis did as a rookie, yet still has more yardage then him on the ground, and isn't far away in receiving.

Keep in mind that the only reason people talked about Hillis as a potential back is because he had taken over when a half other dozen went down last year. He was evaluated as talent scouts as a fullback coming into the NFL. Better, more talented running backs forced his change in college, and the lack of them on a roster last year allowed for him to get a once in a life time opportunity. It is clear that McDaniels, nor the other coaches are finding him suitable to play special teams, let alone offense.

He isn't seeing time for a reason, and it goes far beyond an assumed "dislike" of him. That'd be a Simpleton's reasoning.

Requiem / The Dagda
11-19-2009, 05:34 PM
Yeah, I'm sure we're going to get draft picks for a fullback who tore his groin up last year and hasn't seen any major playing action in any game this year. Go for it!

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
11-19-2009, 06:10 PM
Yeah, I'm sure we're going to get draft picks for a fullback who tore his groin up last year and hasn't seen any major playing action in any game this year. Go for it!

When shanny lands a job next year he'll give his right nut for peyton hillis.

Ravage!!!
11-19-2009, 07:25 PM
When shanny lands a job next year he'll give his right nut for peyton hillis.

Considering Hillis is a stud, and succeeded under a coach that always has a good running game.... I'm guessing Hillis would give his to be on Shanahan's team.

MOtorboat
11-19-2009, 09:26 PM
Considering Hillis is a stud, and succeeded under a coach that always has a good running game.... I'm guessing Hillis would give his to be on Shanahan's team.

Define "succeeded."

I'm sure Olandis Gary has something to say about that.

rcsodak
11-19-2009, 10:21 PM
Hillis is listed as the third kick return man. I don't see LaMont Jordan listed anywhere. So, is the statement about contribution to special teams real or just a ploy to defelect scrutiny?

If Hillis just can't cut it, tell us so. I have all the smoke that I need.

I doubt there is a listing on the roster for 'gunner', or ST, coach. If I remember correctly, a while back, Hillis was on ST and committed a 15yd penalty. Yet ANOTHER no-brained mark against him.

Part of his problem, imho, is he's pressing to make his mark so he CAN get back onto the field. But when he screws up because of it, he's only hurting his chances...and his team. He needs to get back to what he did last year, and just go out there, and play tough and SMART, and things'll work out for him.

I don't believe McD purposefully holds better players out if they'll help the team win. Just as when he had BMarsh on the sidelines earlier....he was taking a roster spot from somebody who knew the scheme better and tried harder. As did he learn from it, so will Hillis....hopefully.

rcsodak
11-19-2009, 10:23 PM
and you know this how?

He biased against Arkansans. :coffee:

rcsodak
11-19-2009, 10:50 PM
If Peyton Hills offered something unique in order to help the Broncos win, I doubt McDaniels would be holding him back. Some people post really funny stuff.

Well, I'll bite.

Show me a better pass catcher out of the backfield.

Do I need to remind you of how he was labeled as having better hands than Alstott? You do remember him, right? Considered the best pass catching FB.

To me, he's like (former Tampa Bay teammate) Mike Alstott, actually a little faster than Mike. He could be a household name in this league because he has some of the best hands I've ever seen."

Pittman should know, since he spent all those years on the same team as Alstott.

MOtorboat
11-19-2009, 10:52 PM
Well, I'll bite.

Show me a better pass catcher out of the backfield.

Do I need to remind you of how he was labeled as having better hands than Alstott? You do remember him, right? Considered the best pass catching FB.


Pittman should know, since he spent all those years on the same team as Alstott.

It really is unfortunate that he has proven those who said that wrong, isn't it.

I'll trust McDaniels and his talent evaluation, myself.

rcsodak
11-19-2009, 10:58 PM
It really is unfortunate that he has proven those who said that wrong, isn't it.

I'll trust McDaniels and his talent evaluation, myself.

When/how did he prove them wrong?

Update me, Mo.

Dean
11-19-2009, 11:01 PM
It really is unfortunate that he has proven those who said that wrong, isn't it.

I'll trust McDaniels and his talent evaluation, myself.

Sorry, I must have missed where he proved he was not an exceptional receiver out of the backfield. Could you point out those games.

I think McD has made some good talent evaluations but then I am not an ostrich. My head is up and I see some that don't look all that well evaluated. Sorry, I couldn't resist the ostrich reference.:D

dogfish
11-19-2009, 11:41 PM
Well, I'll bite.

Show me a better pass catcher out of the backfield.

Do I need to remind you of how he was labeled as having better hands than Alstott? You do remember him, right? Considered the best pass catching FB.


Pittman should know, since he spent all those years on the same team as Alstott.

alstott the "best" pass catching fullback? not so much. . .

you remember a guy named larry centers? yea, he had 800 career receptions to alstott's 300. . . ;)


a better illustration of your point might have been shanahan's statement that hillis had the best hands on the team. . . .

Dreadnought
11-20-2009, 06:41 AM
alstott the "best" pass catching fullback? not so much. . .

you remember a guy named larry centers? yea, he had 800 career receptions to alstott's 300. . . ;)


a better illustration of your point might have been shanahan's statement that hillis had the best hands on the team. . . .

Well, that plus he actually did it on the field, in real live game situations. Hillis was brilliant as a receiver in 2008; no way around that stone cold fact. And our receiving out of the backfield has been for crap this year. No real escaping that either. So either this offensive system sucks or its a fundamentally good system but McD is using the wrong personnel in the wrong ways. Either/Or. I am prepared to listen to arguments for either of those scenarios

broncofaninfla
11-20-2009, 10:01 AM
Yeah, I'm sure we're going to get draft picks for a fullback who tore his groin up last year and hasn't seen any major playing action in any game this year. Go for it!

He tore his hammy, just sayin....

Grover
11-20-2009, 01:11 PM
This week's practice reports are showing that both Jordan and Buckhalter had "limited participation" due to injuries. I'd think that would indicate that Hillis will at least be active this week. And getting back to the original point of the article, if Hillis practices well then I think this is a great game to get him going on offense.

Requiem / The Dagda
11-20-2009, 01:35 PM
Well, that plus he actually did it on the field, in real live game situations. Hillis was brilliant as a receiver in 2008; no way around that stone cold fact. And our receiving out of the backfield has been for crap this year. No real escaping that either. So either this offensive system sucks or its a fundamentally good system but McD is using the wrong personnel in the wrong ways. Either/Or. I am prepared to listen to arguments for either of those scenarios

It doesn't have to be either of those answers. It also could be that his system is fundamentally good, but players are still adjusting to it. Which I assume is the case, because it is the most logical answer for our successes and troubles as of late. Young and new players have completely taken over this roster with the addition of many off-season veterans. There were barely many "good" leftovers. Everyone is still working together as unit trying to get better, and hopefully they will. Onto Hillis:

Hillis has shown an inability to come in and contribute on this roster. What he did under Mike is inconsequential if he is not putting forth the effort to make it on the fields on Sunday's. If Hillis was dazzling in practices and showing the coaches what he can do (as most of you say he can) -- why wouldn't he be on the field? This has yet to be answered, outside illegitimate McDaniels bashing and assumptions.

At any case, Moreno is also a good pass catcher out of the backfield, he will continue to get better in time and illustrate that as he did at Georgia where he was one of the most phenomenal players to ever tote the rock there. And Dogfish is right as usually, Larry Centers caught 101 and 99 passes respectively as a fullback for the Phoenix Cardinals in the 95 and 96 seasons respectively. He continued to have success throughout his career catching the ball.

I'm not saying Hillis can't contribute, I'm sure he can. I'd like to have another option outside LaMont Jordan at back on this team; but if he isn't showing the progress necessary to compete week in and week out to be active, he doesn't belong on that list. Period.

Dreadnought
11-20-2009, 01:47 PM
It doesn't have to be either of those answers. It also could be that his system is fundamentally good, but players are still adjusting to it. Which I assume is the case, because it is the most logical answer for our successes and troubles as of late. Young and new players have completely taken over this roster with the addition of many off-season veterans. There were barely many "good" leftovers. Everyone is still working together as unit trying to get better, and hopefully they will. Onto Hillis:

Hillis has shown an inability to come in and contribute on this roster. What he did under Mike is inconsequential if he is not putting forth the effort to make it on the fields on Sunday's. If Hillis was dazzling in practices and showing the coaches what he can do (as most of you say he can) -- why wouldn't he be on the field? This has yet to be answered, outside illegitimate McDaniels bashing and assumptions.

At any case, Moreno is also a good pass catcher out of the backfield, he will continue to get better in time and illustrate that as he did at Georgia where he was one of the most phenomenal players to ever tote the rock there. And Dogfish is right as usually, Larry Centers caught 101 and 99 passes respectively as a fullback for the Phoenix Cardinals in the 95 and 96 seasons respectively. He continued to have success throughout his career catching the ball.

I'm not saying Hillis can't contribute, I'm sure he can. I'd like to have another option outside LaMont Jordan at back on this team; but if he isn't showing the progress necessary to compete week in and week out to be active, he doesn't belong on that list. Period.


We have the 24th ranked offense in the NFL - and with damned good personnel at most positions. A line that gave up 11 sacks last year. A superior set of pass receivers. Guys who can run the ball (whether Moreno, Hillis, or Buck). A QB a lot of guys think is a solid starter. To me that would in combination mean that criticism of McDaniels' decision making here is not "illegitimate" at all. Or who does deserve blame for the fact our offense sucks so badly? Eventually you run out of targets.


If Hillis was dazzling in practices and showing the coaches what he can do (as most of you say he can) -- why wouldn't he be on the field?

Well, that kind of inclines me to think McDaniels is simply stubborn and perhaps doesn't know his business. Back to that 24th ranking again. Hillis is more of a proven commodity - again based on what he did in 2008. Now, as you indirectly (if unwittingly) implied there, it could just be that our offense has taken a major backwards step this year. That might also explain Moreno's anemic 3.9 YPA and terrible 5.5 YPC as a receiver. I'll even grant that Moreno showed flashes against the Skins, but he has been nothing near as special as his college hype indicated he might be - but this offense is awful, and there is no way to color that.

Requiem / The Dagda
11-20-2009, 01:59 PM
We have the 24th ranked offense in the NFL - and with damned good personnel at most positions. A line that gave up 11 sacks last year. A superior set of pass receivers. Guys who can run the ball (whether Moreno, Hillis, or Buck). A QB a lot of guys think is a solid starter. To me that would in combination mean that criticism of McDaniels' decision making here is not "illegitimate" at all. Or who does deserve blame for the fact our offense sucks so badly? Eventually you run out of targets.

Denver has a pretty talented offense, but it isn't the same set of players that was on the field last year. It definitely isn't the same offensive line who has had multiple different starting line-ups this year. We do have a good corp of receivers, and we have some talented runners. Either way, none of that has to do with Peyton Hillis and his lack of play on Sunday's.


Well, that kind of inclines me to think McDaniels is simply stubborn and perhaps doesn't know his business. Back to that 24th ranking again. Hillis is more of a proven commodity - again based on what he did in 2008.

Numbers don't make you a proven commodity. Tatum Bell and Olandis Gary prove such a rule. Players, good players, consistently see the field on Sunday. Hillis was excused two weeks ago at Pittsburgh because of his grandmother passing away. It is entirely possible that he has not been focused sense. That is a natural thought. However, for him to consistently not see time on the field signals to me a much larger problem; that has more to do with his preparation, work ethic and attitude attending meetings and practices than it does McDaniels not knowing his stuff or being stubborn.


Now, as you indirectly (if unwittingly) implied there, it could just be that our offense has taken a major backwards step this year. That might also explain Moreno's anemic 3.9 YPA and terrible 5.5 YPC as a receiver. I'll even grant that Moreno showed flashes against the Skins, but he has been nothing near as special as his college hype indicated he might be - but this offense is awful, and there is no way to color that.

Our offense is doing better turnover wise, but it doesn't seem like we're making the proper strides as far as point efficiency goes. As stated earlier, I think a lot of it is this team being young and full of newcomers learning a new system. Injuries to the offensive line and a shuffling of the line-up has impacted our pass and run blocking.

As far as the whole Hillis debate goes:

He has the opportunities during the week to prepare and show he is ready for the game. It is quite obvious he hasn't done that. Players can get in doghouses based on what they do or do not do. However, I don't see that as stubbornness on the behalf of McDaniels. I'll go on a limb (not really) and say that people who end up getting in the house are probably there for good reason. Hillis is neither the answer or solution to all of our problems, but if he shows up during the week and performs, he should see time on Sunday. With Buckhalter and Jordan dinged up, this may be his week.

Ravage!!!
11-20-2009, 02:03 PM
Doesn't mean that there isn't a bias... whether in doghouse or whatever reason. Once you get on a person's bad side (for whatever reason that may be)... it can be hard to get on the good side.

You can't convince me that Hillis all of a sudden isn't a hard worker, isn't a good player, and can't be better than the likes of Jordan.

Requiem / The Dagda
11-20-2009, 02:06 PM
You can't convince me that Hillis all of a sudden isn't a hard worker, isn't a good player, and can't be better than the likes of Jordan.

And I can't prove to you that he is doing all the necessary things to make it on the field on Sunday's either. I'm not at the practice and don't have that kind of access. Only the coaches and players do. What I can tell you is that LaMont Jordan is probably favored over Hillis due to McDaniels knowing what he can do (which doesn't seem to be much) and system familiarity.

pnbronco
11-20-2009, 02:12 PM
They award black jerseys to the players who've been particularly good in practice the previous week, and Hillis has not been awarded one of those yet this season while a player in a similar situation as far as the depth chart, Jarvis Moss, has been given one several times this season.

It's a new staff, and it expects different things. Players have to adjust.

Hillis' position is difficult because Buckhalter and LaMont Jordan have been around the league for some time. They know all the little things coaches want to see — how to run in practice, how to jump out of line and into the play when they ask somebody to run something. They're proactive because they know what it takes to get on the field.

Hillis is going to have to push harder and not let the frustration get to him. He may not break through every time, but he has to continue to make their decisions difficult.



For me it's just what the writer said here. He is a good player but has not learned the little things that coaches want to see. I have not worked in a place yet that I didn't out work a co-worker but they got the praise because I'm kind of slow in learning the little things that fluff your performance.

I'm from a small town and where I grew up hard work got noticed, not so much when I moved to Denver. So IMO that's what's going on here.

Ravage!!!
11-20-2009, 02:14 PM
And I can't prove to you that he is doing all the necessary things to make it on the field on Sunday's either. I'm not at the practice and don't have that kind of access. Only the coaches and players do. What I can tell you is that LaMont Jordan is probably favored over Hillis due to McDaniels knowing what he can do (which doesn't seem to be much) and system familiarity.

Of course. I mean, thats the point, isn't it? We would like to believe that Jordon is selected because he has something that Hillis doesn't have. But he hasn't shown a DAMN thing, and we KNOW what we saw from our young stud last year. So it does bring up the question.. WHAT is it that Jordan is showing over Hillis? What is keeping Hillis off the field? I know we all have to take the word of the coaches when they say they are putting the best player on the field, but we are all also smart enough to know that sometimes thats not the case.

So if it is purely based on something Jordan brings to the table.... then when do I get to see it? Because right now, I DO know, that we have one HELL of a talent not getting in the game and is being wasted.... system or no system. Seems a 'system' that is based around tiny passes and bubble screens could benefit BIG from a player like Hillis. Or at least, more than what we are seeing from Jordan's contribution.

Dean
11-20-2009, 06:08 PM
I am not sure that once you have been designated a fourth string running back that many opportunities come to prove your worth.

Normally, you will get absolutely no reps with the ones. You will only line up with the twos if there are injuries and most of the time be going against the first string defense while those that are first and second on the depth chart go against the defensive back ups.

Once at the bottom of the depth chart, short of injury, your opportunities will be fewer. Those opportunities will come with a weaker line in front of you and against stronger opposition. It is a pretty slippery slope to climb. How often can you remember a #4 RB from any team rising purely on his own merit to get game time?

Elevation inc
11-22-2009, 03:09 AM
well bucky is iffy for today, and jordans been ruled out, so looks like hillis may get a few carries, hope he breaks one to get back in good graces....

broncofaninfla
11-22-2009, 10:09 AM
We can guess and debate as to why Hillis is getting playing time but the bottom line is he isn't and we've lost three in a row and our running game is struggling. The guys we have went with to date have been laying the ball on the turf too much this season and are as much a liability to the team as an asset. Hillis was a special player for a us last season and hasn't been given a true chance to contribute this offense this season. He has shown he can contribute at this level but can't do so by sitting on the bench. There is no excuse to not give this guy some game reps to help this team win.

broncofaninfla
11-23-2009, 12:55 AM
Hillis didn't get any carries, Moreno fumbled yet again and oh yeah...we lost again.