4th and 2....WORST PLAY EVER!

[Gamechanger]

Hope you have a great birthday but your Colts lose!

:pound:

Best Birthday Ever

[Overtime]

Brady is still > Manning.

3 Super Bowl Rings to Mannings 1.

/end thread.

**** Manning, **** the Colts.

[KCL]

Brady is still > Manning.

3 Super Bowl Rings to Mannings 1.

/end thread.

**** Manning, **** the Colts.

In the past..in the past...this is NOW...:laugh::laugh:

[Devilspawn]

In my job's FF league, I was down 74 points coming into tonight's game.

Moroney - 10
Moss - 32
Manning - 33

Score: Me 126, Loser 125.

Thanks Belichick. Couldn't have done with without you.

On to real football, that was absurd. Russell, Simms, Gradkowski yes. You go for it when those are your opposing QBs. Wow!

[Gamechanger]

Brady is still > Manning.

3 Super Bowl Rings to Mannings 1.

/end thread.

**** Manning, **** the Colts.

one question:

http://i25.tinypic.com/oqvabp.jpg

:D:D:D

[shank]

^lol

[Gamechanger]

On to real football, that was absurd. Russell, Simms, Gradkowski yes. You go for it when those are your opposing QBs. Wow!

I was dumbfounded myself, jeez, Boston will be burnt down tomorrow

MED WHERE ARE YA?

[KCL]

That was one hell of a comeback...great football by the Colts.

[Overtime]

one question:

http://i25.tinypic.com/oqvabp.jpg

:D:D:D

nope just speaking the truth.

brady is 7-4 against Manning (regular and post season).

Brady is 14-3 in the Post Season (2nd only to Bart Starr).

3-1 in Super Bowls.

and is the best clutch QB in the league.


enjoy your win gamechanger, because I'm a laugh my ass off when Brady owns the Colts in the playoffs.

[Gamechanger]

enjoy your win gamechanger, because I'm a laugh my ass off when Brady owns the Colts in the playoffs.

I will, you guys enjoy your Broncos wi-NAH DANG IT

I can't say congrats this week can I?

:tsk:...............:pound:

[CrazyHorse]

Manning's soon going to have the single season streak too!

[CrazyHorse]

Brady is still > Manning.

3 Super Bowl Rings to Mannings 1.

/end thread.

**** Manning, **** the Colts.

By that logic Trent Dilfer > Dan Marino...

[dogfish]

lol @ belly's arrogance biting him in the ass. . . . :lol:

[CrazyHorse]

nope just speaking the truth.

brady is 7-4 against Manning (regular and post season).

Brady is 14-3 in the Post Season (2nd only to Bart Starr).

3-1 in Super Bowls.

and is the best clutch QB in the league.


enjoy your win gamechanger, because I'm a laugh my ass off when Brady owns the Colts in the playoffs.

Manning has a perfect record in the Superbowl 100 % Brady is 75%.

[Gamechanger]

By that logic Trent Dilfer > Dan Marino...

yep it is, but don't tell him that!! :D


Manning has a perfect record in the Superbowl 100 % Brady is 75%.

:laugh:

[BroncoBJ]

In the past..in the past...this is NOW...:laugh::laugh:

In the past ... Brady 3 Superbowls, Manning 1.

Lets fast foward now...


NOW: Brady 3 Superbowls, Manning 1.

:lol:

I guess its still the same. Crazy isn't it? But I like the call on the field. I don't understand how people said it was stupid. If they got it, he'd be a genious.

And plus... whats the difference.. Giving Manning 2 minutes to go 70 yards? or 2 minutes to go 30 yards? Its all the same to him. The guy is like a robot. :lol:

Either way, it was a hell of a game to watch. :salute:

[KCL]

jc..my point is no matter how many SBs Brady has won compared to Manning...all that is in the past and wasn't a factor in the game tonight....right?

[BroncoBJ]

jc..my point is no matter how many SBs Brady has won compared to Manning...all that is in the past and wasn't a factor in the game tonight....right?

That is right. But Brady still has more SB's then Manning does right now. :lol:

Brady will always be better then Manning though. no doubt. But right now, the Colts are better then the Pats. :salute:

til the playoffs :lol:

[KCL]

That is right. But Brady still has more SB's then Manning does right now. :lol:

Brady will always be better then Manning though. no doubt. But right now, the Colts are better then the Pats. :salute:

til the playoffs :lol:

Don't make me neg you...:lol:
How's my little hop scotch buddy on the other board? :lol:

[BroncoBJ]

Don't make me neg you...:lol:
How's my little hop scotch buddy on the other board? :lol:

:lol: Not sure. Hes actually behaving. I'm shocked consider how Hitler is over there running ship.

I havn't been over there really. My latest suspension gets up on thanksgiving and I'm off probation on xmas.

They were really nice about letting me come back on hollidays. :salute:

[KCL]

Oh my...you got banned from there...LMAO.
Remember when he (I always thought he was a she) had IP and couldn't
send PMs....:lol:

[ursamajor]

Brady is still > Manning.

3 Super Bowl Rings to Mannings 1.

/end thread.

**** Manning, **** the Colts.

So Bradshaw was better than Elway?

[ursamajor]

nope just speaking the truth.

brady is 7-4 against Manning (regular and post season).

Brady is 14-3 in the Post Season (2nd only to Bart Starr).

3-1 in Super Bowls.

and is the best clutch QB in the league.


enjoy your win gamechanger, because I'm a laugh my ass off when Brady owns the Colts in the playoffs.

Blah Blah Blah. Give Manning Moss, and the a-hole-ish desire to run up the score, and Manning could throw for 70 tds in a season.

Brady enjoyed the benefit of having the far more complete teams. Even this year, the Pats are a more complete team than the Colts.

Manning is SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO O Much better than Brady, it is not even funny. And Brady is a pvssy. Manning has never missed a start, played with a broken jaw etc. Prolly would play on a torn ACL. Just tape it up :lol:

BTW the Brady Bunch are winless in SBs in which they didnt cheat.

FYI When Manning had that 49 td season, he sat out alot of 4th quarters. F'n scary to tell the truth.

[WTE]

:pound:

Best Birthday Ever

Happy belated birthday GC.

I've never seen a more bone-headed decision in my life.

However, I have stopped loathing in my self-pity.

Tonight, I will watch the Browns/Ravens just to remind myself how lucky I am not to be raised as a Browns fan.

[KCL]

Happy belated birthday GC.

I've never seen a more bone-headed decision in my life.

However, I have stopped loathing in my self-pity.

Tonight, I will watch the Browns/Ravens just to remind myself how lucky I am not to be raised as a Browns fan.

What was the NFL thinking making the Colts and Pats the Sunday night game and the Browns on MNF? That would be like having the Chiefs or some team like that on Monday night.BORING!!!

But who knows may be worth watching if the Browns could somehow pull off a win.

[Ravage!!!]

I guess its still the same. Crazy isn't it? But I like the call on the field. I don't understand how people said it was stupid. If they got it, he'd be a genious.

And plus... whats the difference.. Giving Manning 2 minutes to go 70 yards? or 2 minutes to go 30 yards? Its all the same to him. The guy is like a robot. :lol:

Either way, it was a hell of a game to watch. :salute:

TERRIBLE call.. absolutely terrible. Coaches should NOT be making calls like that. Belicheck did the SAME thing in the Super Bowl.. in which they LOST. Going for it on your side of the field..... dumb. Dumb. Dumb call by a brilliant coach.

[Shazam!]

...but if they get it, Belli is a genius.

[Medford Bronco]

I was dumbfounded myself, jeez, Boston will be burnt down tomorrow

MED WHERE ARE YA?

lol Med has bigger problems like no job right now:tsk:

The "Genius" had a brain fart though

[WTE]

lol Med has bigger problems like no job right now:tsk:

The "Genius" had a brain fart though

Exactly Med. It's only a game.

There's much more important things in life.

Good luck in your job search. You have a lot of good people here rooting for you.

[jhildebrand]

Brady is still > Manning.

3 Super Bowl Rings to Mannings 1.

/end thread.

**** Manning, **** the Colts.

I would strongly disagree. Brady has no rings without his best weapon: A video camera!

In fact, I don't think it is brought up enough when people discuss his GREATNESS. He was one QB with the spygate and a different without.

[Dr Velcro]

Fair and balanced I go.....

First, Med....all my best, dear. Keep your head up.

Second, where I think it's great that we snapped out of it like that, it should have NEVER gotten to that point to begin with. WE WERE LUCKY. We had a call in our favor with that reception NOT being a 1st down in the 4th.

There are some issues that need to be addressed in Indy. We've got NO run game. I'm shocked that we got off the runs we did. Where has that been all season? The D looked rough. 2nd string needs hard core work. Rooks are rooks, but I think we could have done better than that. We have nothing going on to cover guys like Moss.

Dallas Clark was covered all day long & a lot of pressure was put on Wayne & Garcon to show. Thank goodness for them. We need more chain-moving options. Mix it up. We have the tools, why aren't we doing it?

I'm glad the "go for it" backfired, but it should have never gotten to that point.
We have too many games on the line, we've had a light season and this nail biter crap will cost us in the end.

I'm happy to have gotten this win & these guys got it shoved back into their faces.

I do not like nail biter games....not with this team.

Ray Lewis has a way to get the Ravens psyched. They are hungry for us & if we don't pull it together, Peyton's stats & this easy season won't mean a damn come play-offs.

Lost too many play off games cuz of this kind of mess.

Nope, not buying it. Love my team, but I'm also a realist & know that
we've had it very easy this season.

There...I said it.

[BroncoBJ]

TERRIBLE call.. absolutely terrible. Coaches should NOT be making calls like that. Belicheck did the SAME thing in the Super Bowl.. in which they LOST. Going for it on your side of the field..... dumb. Dumb. Dumb call by a brilliant coach.

I agree with the call though. I'm the type of guy who enjoys gambles. If they punted they would have gave the Colts plenty of time left to go down the field and score anyways. You know the Colts can score at will. :lol: And if you get the 1st down, then the Colts have ZERO chance to come back and win pretty much since you'll just take a knee. I'd rather give the Colts 30 yards to score then 70 and would've hoped they scored with like a minute left or something so then the Pats could've had time to get a FG. So its a risk but I agree with it. If they were up by 2, then I wouldn't have agreed with it. But it is what it is. I'm just glad it wasn't the Broncos and McDaniels who did that or else this whole forum would want him fired ( Not just half of the forum) :lol:

And Bill went for it in the SB but it was in Giants territory I thought? .. It was too long to kick a FG, and too short to punt I believe. And it was like 4th and 10 or something and they went for it.

[Gamechanger]

Med, sorry to hear that, its tough, I've been doing the same, footballs been my therapy though

Doc V, I will agree that we are running (LOL) on luck, and granted, I would have loved it if we had a shoot-out esque game

Manning could have lost that game, those two picks were insane and boneheaded, I agree

I wouldn't say that we DON'T have a running game, we've ripped off a few long ones this season, however, the RG carousel between Pollack and DeVan does not help our cause

the Pats have the best defense against the tight end, but Dallas still had a few big gains

both Collie and Garcon hit the wall last night, Bodden and Garcon was having one hell of a dogfight, but drops are drops too

defensively, we weren't getting gashed on the ground, admit it, and we were getting pressure

obviously, our weakness is our secondary, but you must give credit to Powers, fo what it's worth he's been playing like a vet this year, he has lined up with the best this year, he bottled up Welker for the most part and I knew Moss was going to be Moss so I wasn't too surprised, but remember this, before the 4th and 2 play, had Powers held onto the ball, we wouldn't have this discussion, and it would probably be for the worse

Belichick was bold, yes, but bold doesn't mean smart all the time

there's still a lot of football, we can shake the cobwebs out

as for Baltimore, i'm not real worried, Ngata is not in full health and the Raven's offense does not scare me

I'm a realist too, but we still have a great QB under center and plenty of games to come

i'm calm

[Dr Velcro]

Dude, I'm calm too.

I know we're going to play offs.

Our D looks better than it's looked in a long time. Meeks is gone!

This was a lucky win. This next game will be THE test on our offense.
After this next one, my panties won't be in such a bind.

[Gamechanger]

"i'd rather have an ugly win than a pretty loss any day"- Reggie Wayne

and i'm not overlooking the Ravens, but i'd say Houston will be a bigger test

[BroncoWave]

Brady is still > Manning.

3 Super Bowl Rings to Mannings 1.

/end thread.

**** Manning, **** the Colts.

That is such a super lame argument it's not even funny. I guess Trent Dilfer was also a better QB than Dan Marino. As far as pure QB play is concerned, I have never seen a better one than Manning, and it's really not even close.

[Medford Bronco]

That is such a super lame argument it's not even funny. I guess Trent Dilfer was also a better QB than Dan Marino. As far as pure QB play is concerned, I have never seen a better one than Manning, and it's really not even close.

The only one to me is Joe Montana.

Good argument though.

and if they think Doug Williams is better than Jim Kelley
or Mark Rypen is better than Mario LMAO:lol::lol:

[KCL]

The only one to me is Joe Montana.

Good argument though.

and if they think Doug Williams is better than Jim Kelley
or Mark Rypen is better than Mario LMAO:lol::lol:

Jim Kelley...poor guy...:lol:

[Overtime]

I love all the Brady haters in here, but i'm not gonna waste my time continuing to argue.

Brady is a better QB than Peyton Manning is. Brady is one of the best clutch QB's to ever play the game, and to say Brady is a cheater is ridiculous. Brady plays QB, he doesn't operate video cameras. Belichick got caught having one of his guys taping, and Belichick paid the price, and it's over and done with.

Peyton Manning is just absolutely overrated, he couldn't even beat the Sparklers last year in the playoffs....how pathetic was that?

[BroncoWave]

The only one to me is Joe Montana.

Good argument though.

and if they think Doug Williams is better than Jim Kelley
or Mark Rypen is better than Mario LMAO:lol::lol:

I never saw Montana play but from what I've read about Bill Walsh he turned just about every QB he coached into a star, and Montana was surrounded by talent so it's hard for me to determine if he was really as good as many people say he was.

[Gamechanger]

I love all the Brady haters in here, but i'm not gonna waste my time continuing to argue.

Brady is a better QB than Peyton Manning is. Brady is one of the best clutch QB's to ever play the game, and to say Brady is a cheater is ridiculous. Brady plays QB, he doesn't operate video cameras. Belichick got caught having one of his guys taping, and Belichick paid the price, and it's over and done with.

never seen Brady lead THREE 4th Qtr. comebacks of 17+ points



Peyton Manning is just absolutely overrated, he couldn't even beat the Sparklers last year in the playoffs....how pathetic was that?

but you guys laid an egg en route to the playoffs AGAINST those Sparkler's

how pathetic is that?

:confused:

















:lol:


















:laugh:


















:pound:

[BroncoWave]

I love all the Brady haters in here, but i'm not gonna waste my time continuing to argue.

Brady is a better QB than Peyton Manning is. Brady is one of the best clutch QB's to ever play the game, and to say Brady is a cheater is ridiculous. Brady plays QB, he doesn't operate video cameras. Belichick got caught having one of his guys taping, and Belichick paid the price, and it's over and done with.

Peyton Manning is just absolutely overrated, he couldn't even beat the Sparklers last year in the playoffs....how pathetic was that?

It has nothing to do with hate. You are only calling the people who disagree with you "haters" because you can't come up with anything relevant to say.

And your theory is false because I hate Manning way more than I do Brady, but looking at it objectively (which you can't seem to do) Manning is a far superior QB. If you go back to 01 and trade Brady for Manning, I guarantee you he wins more Super Bowls.

Winning a Super Bowl has to do with SO MUCH more than with who is a better QB it's not even funny. You also have to factor in your defense (advantage pats), how good your coaching is (advantage pats), and who you get matched up against in the playoffs (push). To base your whole argument on playoff record and Super Bowl wins is ridiculous at best.

[Medford Bronco]

I never saw Montana play but from what I've read about Bill Walsh he turned just about every QB he coached into a star, and Montana was surrounded by talent so it's hard for me to determine if he was really as good as many people say he was.

I hear you but he had 11 tds and 0 picks in Super Bowls.

This guy never choked ever in SF.
I am far from a fan as well. 1990 Super Bowl is a sore spot with me.

[KCL]

I hear you but he had 11 tds and 0 picks in Super Bowls.

This guy never choked ever in SF.
I am far from a far as well. 1990 Super Bowl is a sore spot with me.

Plus he came to KC and was able to take the Chiefs to the AFCCG...even though we didn't win...no QB has been a leader since..well maybe with the exception of Trent Green.

I loved having him as a Chief...that was very exciting....we haven't been back to that
game since the Montana days!

[KCL]

I am not a Brady or a Manning hater...would love to have either one be
the QB for Kansas City.

[Ravage!!!]

Peyton Manning is one of the BEST QBs to EVER play the game.... PERIOD. PERIOD. To state that he's "over rated" is one of the most ignorant comments you can make regarding a player's talent.

[Medford Bronco]

I am not a Brady or a Manning hater...would love to have either one be
the QB for Kansas City.

Why wouldnt you?

The last great QB in KC Bill Kenney;) JK KCL

I Liked Trent Green when he was not concussed.

[KCL]

Why wouldnt you?

The last great QB in KC Bill Kenney;) JK KCL

I Liked Trent Green when he was not concussed.

Med...go back and read post #44

[Ravage!!!]

I agree with the call though. I'm the type of guy who enjoys gambles. If they punted they would have gave the Colts plenty of time left to go down the field and score anyways. You know the Colts can score at will. :lol: And if you get the 1st down, then the Colts have ZERO chance to come back and win pretty much since you'll just take a knee. I'd rather give the Colts 30 yards to score then 70 and would've hoped they scored with like a minute left or something so then the Pats could've had time to get a FG. So its a risk but I agree with it. If they were up by 2, then I wouldn't have agreed with it. But it is what it is. I'm just glad it wasn't the Broncos and McDaniels who did that or else this whole forum would want him fired ( Not just half of the forum) :lol:

And Bill went for it in the SB but it was in Giants territory I thought? .. It was too long to kick a FG, and too short to punt I believe. And it was like 4th and 10 or something and they went for it.

If Peyton could score at will, the Patriots wouldn't have been dominating that entire game.

With 70-80 yrds to get to the end-zone, there are a LOT more opportunities for the defenders to make a play, the offenders to blunder a play, or a penalty to kill the drive. Giving him 30 yrds, is like saying "here." Instead of making you go 7 plays to get the game winning TD.. we'll give you 2. They would have been better off not to play defense after making that stupid choice, and letting the Colts score on the first play.

**Side note** It was in the third quarter, the patriots were on the Giants 31. Would have been a 46 yrd FG, but opted to go for 4th and 13 instead with there 7-3 lead (dumb dumb decision)

[ursamajor]

Ok, now for the real,

Going for it on 4th and 2 was the right call. The Patriots only chance was to keep the ball out of Manning's hands. More than a minute, even if they punt it, Manning is the deadliest passer to have ever played the game, and he had the Pats D worn down. When the game is on the line, you have to put it in your best player's hands, and for the Pats that was Brady. It was the right call. 2 yards on that play, and the Pats would have won.

It was the right call, cuz I honestly believe that since Peyton had his rhythm, had they punted, he still would have thrown the TD.

[ursamajor]

If Peyton could score at will, the Patriots wouldn't have been dominating that entire game.

With 70-80 yrds to get to the end-zone, there are a LOT more opportunities for the defenders to make a play, the offenders to blunder a play, or a penalty to kill the drive. Giving him 30 yrds, is like saying "here." Instead of making you go 7 plays to get the game winning TD.. we'll give you 2. They would have been better off not to play defense after making that stupid choice, and letting the Colts score on the first play.

**Side note** It was in the third quarter, the patriots were on the Giants 31. Would have been a 46 yrd FG, but opted to go for 4th and 13 instead with there 7-3 lead (dumb dumb decision)

Im pretty sure the AFC Championship game in '06 was still on Bill's mind. You have to keep the ball out of Manning's hands. It was the right call.

[ursamajor]

Brady is one of the best clutch QB's to ever play the game

The Hell he is. He had a clutch kicker. And if he is so damned clutch, why the hell could he not gain 2 measly yards?

Brady is much more overrated than Manning is. I dont know how you can call Manning overrated. He is the greatest pure passer to have ever played the game. He has surpassed Marino. I never thought anyone would, but Peyton has.

[Ravage!!!]

Im pretty sure the AFC Championship game in '06 was still on Bill's mind. You have to keep the ball out of Manning's hands. It was the right call.

It was NOT the right call. Peyton had NOT been playing that great all game long. The defense and Patriots had been DOMINATING this game.. and although you 'feel' the chances of Manning going 70-80 yrds is the SAME as going 30.... NO WAY is it the same. Not even close.

Even if you felt the odds are the same.. you MAKE Peyton go 70-80 yrds instead of 30 to BEAT you. It wasn't like he just had to go from his own 20 and get into FG range... he would have to go 70-80 yrds and put the ball in the endzone to beat you. More chances for a finger deflection, another dropped pass, a holding call. Anythign could have stalled or killed their drive.

Instead of being down just 1 game and a defeat over the Colts.. now you are down THREE... and no way to take this game back. Now instead of playing them at home, you play them at THEIR turf again. This gives the Colts the confidence the next time they play you.

No.. this was NOT the right call. This was not the call you make to put your team in the best chance to win. I know Belicheck is a great coach, but his arrogance cost his team with this. This is a time when you don't want your HC to COST you games, and Bill cost his team this game and will have major playoff implications down the road.

[ursamajor]

It was NOT the right call. Peyton had NOT been playing that great all game long. The defense and Patriots had been DOMINATING this game.. and although you 'feel' the chances of Manning going 70-80 yrds is the SAME as going 30.... NO WAY is it the same. Not even close.

Even if you felt the odds are the same.. you MAKE Peyton go 70-80 yrds instead of 30 to BEAT you. It wasn't like he just had to go from his own 20 and get into FG range... he would have to go 70-80 yrds and put the ball in the endzone to beat you. More chances for a finger deflection, another dropped pass, a holding call. Anythign could have stalled or killed their drive.

Instead of being down just 1 game and a defeat over the Colts.. now you are down THREE... and no way to take this game back. Now instead of playing them at home, you play them at THEIR turf again. This gives the Colts the confidence the next time they play you.

No.. this was NOT the right call. This was not the call you make to put your team in the best chance to win. I know Belicheck is a great coach, but his arrogance cost his team with this. This is a time when you don't want your HC to COST you games, and Bill cost his team this game and will have major playoff implications down the road.

U know, that was the 40th time that Manning led the game winning drive in the 4th. Im willing to bet that the vast majority of those were not from 28 yards out.

That being said, more than 65% of the Pats plays went for more than 2 yards. It was the right call.

[MOtorboat]

Clearly the road to the Super Bowl goes through Indy...

[Overtime]

Clearly the road to the Super Bowl goes through Indy...

until they go 1 and out after the bye week in the Divisional Round of the Playoffs. :elefant:

[jrelway]

it was the wrong call guys. you punt the ball and make manning go the distance. fumbles, INT's are all a possiblity. you dont give manning a short field like that to work with. especially when hes on fire.

[Ravage!!!]

U know, that was the 40th time that Manning led the game winning drive in the 4th. Im willing to bet that the vast majority of those were not from 28 yards out.

That being said, more than 65% of the Pats plays went for more than 2 yards. It was the right call.

heh.. % don't mean squat.

Hell... I don't care if you went for it on 4th down 6 times in THAT game and converted them EVERY time... you do NOT go for it on fourth down from your own 28 yrd line, up by only 6 points. HORRIBLE call.

[ursamajor]

heh.. % don't mean squat.

Hell... I don't care if you went for it on 4th down 6 times in THAT game and converted them EVERY time... you do NOT go for it on fourth down from your own 28 yrd line, up by only 6 points. HORRIBLE call.

Your team has 28 yards to hold them to a fieldgoal or a TO on Downs.

Manning was hot. He would have had 2 minutes to drive the field. Your best player on either side of the ball is Brady. You have to put the ball in his hands. It was the right call. Had they punted, everyone would be saying it was the wrong call. Peyton was on fire in the 4th. He would have drove the ball on them and scored. Like he has done countless times. Then everyone would have been saying "Bill should have put the ball in Tom's hands, and let him get those 2 yards, then run out the clock. What an idiot to kick to Peyton with so much time on the clock."

[ursamajor]

The Pats were up by 17 points in the 4th. Then they give up 2 tds in that quarter leading up to the 4th and 2. You really having faith in them to keep Peyton from scoring with more than 2 minutes to work with? I wouldn't. It was the right call.

[Devilspawn]

Your team has 28 yards to hold them to a fieldgoal or a TO on Downs.

Manning was hot. He would have had 2 minutes to drive the field. Your best player on either side of the ball is Brady. You have to put the ball in his hands. It was the right call. Had they punted, everyone would be saying it was the wrong call. Peyton was on fire in the 4th. He would have drove the ball on them and scored. Like he has done countless times. Then everyone would have been saying "Bill should have put the ball in Tom's hands, and let him get those 2 yards, then run out the clock. What an idiot to kick to Peyton with so much time on the clock."
I look at it this way. On the Pats 28 yard line, Manning can get the ball into the end zone on no more than 5 plays. On his own 28, it'll take him twice the amount of plays, maybe more. The more plays he has, the better the Pats' chances of creating a turnover. Plus you take away the option of the run, which when Addai got his hands on the ball, gained a CHUNK of yardage. Manning will be throwing all plays except for a delayed draw that gets what, 10, 12 yards?

But that's coaching in the NFL. The higher the risk, the more you look like a genius or doofus if you succeed or fail.

[Shazam!]

Going for it on 4th and 2 was the right call.

Oh lord. You have got to be ****ing kidding me.

If they didn't make it, they are better off giving Indy 28 yards as opposed to 60+ for the leading score? Puhleeze. Brady or no, this was the worst call of the year for Belly.

Sure, Indy is Indy and Manning is Manning. But the loss of confidence in their defense has gotta kill some of those players. Colts or no.

If he makes it, he's the boldest Coach in the NFL. But he didn't. It cost them. It was something I haven't seen from Belly in a long time. A bad coaching decision. And for people to say it's all good? Pfffft.

I don't claim to be an expert, but this is basic, basic Football 101 here. I question these people's knowledge of the game. I don't care if you're a fan, a self proclaimed expert, stat master or a jerkoff analyst for ESPN. That was a horrible, horrible call, and the worst of the year.

[WTE]

Yesterday Belichick was on his weekly radio show on WEEI. He was asked if he thought about just letting Addai score so the Patriots would still have time to get a game-winning FG.

Belichick replied, "No, you make them earn the go-ahead score instead of just giving it to them."

Well, if that's his reasoning why didn't he punt the ball and make Indy "earn" the go-ahead score by driving the distance of the field.

Of course the announcers on WEEI never challenged him on that.

[CoachChaz]

Is it possible to maybe give Melvin Bullitt a little credit for stepping up and making a big defensive play? Call Bill all the names you want, but 9 times out of 10, I'm betting Brady to Faulk nets more than a yard and a half...no matter the situation.

So how about a little love for the Aggie. God knows all of us could use some.

[Gamechanger]

Is it possible to maybe give Melvin Bullitt a little credit for stepping up and making a big defensive play? Call Bill all the names you want, but 9 times out of 10, I'm betting Brady to Faulk nets more than a yard and a half...no matter the situation.

So how about a little love for the Aggie. God knows all of us could use some.

"Silver" Bullitt is getting better every game he's played, and he's deserving of all the credit he gets

3 game saving picks last year

2 game changing tackles this year

but because of Bob's contract, he's only an unsung hero

and fwiw, he's the only Aggie i like

[CoachChaz]

"Silver" Bullitt is getting better every game he's played, and he's deserving of all the credit he gets

3 game saving picks last year

2 game changing tackles this year

but because of Bob's contract, he's only an unsung hero

and fwiw, he's the only Aggie i like

Cant imagine why (sarcasm)

I remember when A&M was recruiting him. Damn I feel old.

[Ravage!!!]

Your team has 28 yards to hold them to a fieldgoal or a TO on Downs.

Manning was hot. He would have had 2 minutes to drive the field. Your best player on either side of the ball is Brady. You have to put the ball in his hands. It was the right call. Had they punted, everyone would be saying it was the wrong call. Peyton was on fire in the 4th. He would have drove the ball on them and scored. Like he has done countless times. Then everyone would have been saying "Bill should have put the ball in Tom's hands, and let him get those 2 yards, then run out the clock. What an idiot to kick to Peyton with so much time on the clock."

No. No. So you are saying its "smarter" to try and stop Manning for 28 yrds, instead of manning for 70-80. Makes no sense.

Terrible call. IDIOT for not KICKING the ball. IF Manning drives 80 yrds and puts the ball in the endzone to beat you, THEN... Then you gave your team every chance possible to make a single stop. At 28 yards, that nearly same as putting the ball at the spot for the 'lame' NCAA overtime shootout.. Terrible choice.

It just has absolutely NOTHING to do with odds or percentages. It doesn't have anything to do with you feeling the best player on the field is Brady. Because Brady wasn't the one running. He wasn't the one blocking, and he wasn't the one making tackles. What you are saying, is that your defense can't make a stop against Manning while THEIR defense can make a stop against "the best player on the field." If Brady was the best player, then your defense should be able to make a stop against the 'second best.' I don't care if you have Adrian Peterson in the backfield and have already converted 6 4th down tries. NO WAY do you take the chance on this.

WTE has a great quote from Belicheck regarding letting addai get in the endzone..Belichick replied, "No, you make them earn the go-ahead score instead of just giving it to them."

:lol: (laughing simply because its fun to go back and forth like this, but I know we aren't changing each other's mind... no matter how wrong you are on this):D

[BroncoWave]

Ravage, it's just not as simple as "give Manning 28 yards vs. give Manning 70 yards".

While going for it has higher risk, it also has much higher reward. They probably convert that play for over 2 yards well over half the time, so why not play the odds and try to keep the ball out of his hands altogether? By punting, you are guaranteeing giving Manning to score. By going for it, you're probably giving yourself at least 50/50 odds (and that's being very lenient to the Colts) of keeping the ball out of Manning's hands for good.

While it may have seemed stupid there is a reason coaches with balls (Belichick) have 3 rings and coaches with no balls (Herm, Marty) have no rings and are out of the NFL. Sometimes you just gotta take chances to win. They might not always work out but it instills confidence in your players and, IMO, makes you a better team for it.

I bet if the Pats are in the same situation next time they play the Colts, BB does the same thing and I would all but guarantee it would work.

[Poet]

I think it's a bad call. If you don't make that play you lose. Manning is one of the best of all-time and he's going to score there, that's why you're doing it in the first place because you're scared he's going to go 70. Going for it on 4th down is always a risk because things like someone tripping, a bad hiked ball, or whatever just losses you the game. You factor in that it's a passing play and the fact that the Colts had some success with their DE lead pass rush and I don't like it.

[Ravage!!!]

Ravage, it's just not as simple as "give Manning 28 yards vs. give Manning 70 yards".

While going for it has higher risk, it also has much higher reward. They probably convert that play for over 2 yards well over half the time, so why not play the odds and try to keep the ball out of his hands altogether? By punting, you are guaranteeing giving Manning to score. By going for it, you're probably giving yourself at least 50/50 odds (and that's being very lenient to the Colts) of keeping the ball out of Manning's hands for good.

While it may have seemed stupid there is a reason coaches with balls (Belichick) have 3 rings and coaches with no balls (Herm, Marty) have no rings and are out of the NFL. Sometimes you just gotta take chances to win. They might not always work out but it instills confidence in your players and, IMO, makes you a better team for it.

I bet if the Pats are in the same situation next time they play the Colts, BB does the same thing and I would all but guarantee it would work.

Its NOT a guarantee that Manning scores from 70-80 yrds out. Thats absurd. It has NOTHING to do with the ODDS of you getting two yards. It has EVERYTHING to do with football Smarts.... which Belicheck (of all people) blew on this call.

EVEN if they converted that play,and went 60 yrds.. I STILL would have called that to be a DUMB DUMB call. DUmb. Thats not smart football. You MAKE Manning go 70-80 yrds and put the ball in the end zone. You MAKE him have those 12 plays with no penalties, no dropped passes, no mis reads, no mis-throws, and no mistakes. You MAKE that team MAKE the plays for 80yrds and not give them OVER twice that in FREE yardage.

Yeah.. Belicheck goes for it again, because he's too stubborn to admit he made a mistake. He even tried to suggest it was the ref's fault for them not "getting those two yards" on this one. He made the mistake in the Super Bowl by NOT kicking the FG and going for it on 4th and 13 instead! That lost him THAT game as well.

I don't care if you are playing the best QB on the planet. You MAKE him have to play perfectly and not have something happen. You make his YOUNG WRs not bobble, drop, or fumble a pass. You MAKE his OL keep him upright without too much pressure and not holding despite knowing that the defense is coming HARD. You MAKE them move2.5 TIMES the amount of yardage that you gave him...because despite you convincing yourself "he would have scored anyway.... the % just don't show that.

IF.. IF you are right about Manning scoring from 80 yrds back JUST as easy as 28 yrds back..... then why not simply let Manning score on the first play from scrimmage?? It would save clock and let Brady go back down into FG range. Thats all he would have needed, a FG. THen he would have had 2 minutes for Brady to move the ball down the field. Instead, Beliecheck wanted to MAKE the Colts earn the TD....but its smarter to do that from 28 yrds back than 80?? Thats absurd. The % most certainly do NOT hold up at all.

Manning, as great as he is, doesn't score on every drive. He doesn't score every time the ball is in his hands, and wasn't scoring at will in that game. THe Pats dominated that game. Belicheck choked, and made a TERRIBLE decision. One that cost his team in the playoff picture more than anything else.

[Overtime]

Yesterday Belichick was on his weekly radio show on WEEI. He was asked if he thought about just letting Addai score so the Patriots would still have time to get a game-winning FG.

Belichick replied, "No, you make them earn the go-ahead score instead of just giving it to them."

Well, if that's his reasoning why didn't he punt the ball and make Indy "earn" the go-ahead score by driving the distance of the field.

Of course the announcers on WEEI never challenged him on that.

I'm not gonna say Belichick "threw" this game, but an interesting perspective to look at is if he has to play Indy again in the playoffs, then he'll be more prepared and the team will be motivated to beat them next time.

Funny thing is Pats will beat Indy in the playoffs if they meet, and I'm gonna love every minute of it.

[CoachChaz]

I wouldnt have done it but I can see the logic. You've been passing all over the Colts all day...2 yards to Faulk is like pissing in the ocean and hitting water...Manning still had to go 28 yards and you did stop him on 7 drives in the game so far, including 2 INT's.

He gambled and played with the odds and lost. Not the dumbest decision ever...but I wouldnt have done it

[Ravage!!!]

I'm not gonna say Belichick "threw" this game, but an interesting perspective to look at is if he has to play Indy again in the playoffs, then he'll be more prepared and the team will be motivated to beat them next time.

Funny thing is Pats will beat Indy in the playoffs if they meet, and I'm gonna love every minute of it.

They have met 14 or 16 times. Belicheck isn't throwing a game to be 'more prepared.

He blew the call. Ask Belicheck if he would rather face Manning at home or in Indy in the playoffs.

Plus.. how do you figure his team will be more motivated to win in the playoffs because they blew a call in this one? More motivated than simply wanting to win in the playoffs to begin with, because Manning took advantage of the GIFT he was handed by a terrible decision from your own coach???

Doesn't make any sense.:coffee:

[BroncoWave]

It's pretty simple. If you think you have a better chance of gaining 2 yards than you have of stopping Manning from going 70, you have to go for it. And the way the Pats offense had moved the ball in the game and the way Manning was heating up, it's entirely possible that the odds of gaining 2 were higher than those of stopping Manning from going 70.

Regardless, the odds weren't that much different for it to be as horrible a call as you are claiming. If you look at the Pats' 4th% against the Colts over the past several years, the odds are pretty staggeringly in the Pats' favor.

[Medford Bronco]

It was not only a dumb call but pretty stupid odds wise.

even HOF coaches can f up some times

[Ravage!!!]

it ALL comes down to where the ball was. I don't care if you converted 10 4th down tries before that one. You still don't go for it on your own 28 when only up by 6 points.

[ursamajor]

No. No. So you are saying its "smarter" to try and stop Manning for 28 yrds, instead of manning for 70-80.

No, I am saying it is smarter to keep the ball out of Peyton's hands when he is using your defense like toilet paper.

And as for the whole "possibility of an interception or fumble if you punt it" argument...there is also the possibility that your punter loses the handle, shanks the punt, or the punt gets returned for excellent yardage or a TD. THe Patriots best player is not their punter. Their offense is better than their punt coverage team. There Offense is better than their defense. There is no player equal or better at their position on defense as Tom is @ QB. BUt you think the smartest thing to do would be to rely on the 2 phases of the game that they are weaker at?

Down by 3 with with 3 seconds left, I dont care if there are 3 bodies on Michael Jordan, and Luke Longley is wide open, I am putting the ball in Jordan's hands.

Who cares what transpired the 3 quarters prior. This is the 4th qtr. The championship rounds. Peyton was zoned in and on fire. 2+ minutes, 1 timeout. Unless your defense is the 85 Bears, or the 2000 Ravens, I am guaranteeing you that Peyton scores that TD even from 80 yards out, 10/10 times. Your only hope ONLY HOPE one more time ONLY HOPE is to keep the ball out of his hands. This isn't JaMarcus Russell we are talking about, it is Peyton Manning. You have got to keep the ball out of his hands.

[ursamajor]

I think it's a bad call. If you don't make that play you lose. Manning is one of the best of all-time and he's going to score there, that's why you're doing it in the first place because you're scared he's going to go 70. Going for it on 4th down is always a risk because things like someone tripping, a bad hiked ball, or whatever just losses you the game. You factor in that it's a passing play and the fact that the Colts had some success with their DE lead pass rush and I don't like it.

True, if you dont make that play you will probably lose. If you punt, you will probably lose. If you make that play you win.

so lose lose or win. I guess since Bill didnt want to loose like a simp, (punting it would be the same as just bending over) it was a bad call.

[Ravage!!!]

making a team go 70-80 yrds is in NO WAY... the same as giving them a TD. Its in, NO WAY, the same as making a team go 28 yrds. There is NO WAY.. you can say "giving the ball to Manning 70-80 yrds away from the endzone, is nearly the same as GIVING him a TD." Thats absurd.

[Ravage!!!]

Unless your defense is the 85 Bears, or the 2000 Ravens, I am guaranteeing you that Peyton scores that TD even from 80 yards out, 10/10 times. Your only hope ONLY HOPE one more time ONLY HOPE is to keep the ball out of his hands. This isn't JaMarcus Russell we are talking about, it is Peyton Manning. You have got to keep the ball out of his hands.

Uhmmm..... absurd. :lol: FUNNY... but absurd.

You can't tell me that Brady is the best player on the field if Manning scores 10/10 times from 80 yrds out. Sounds like the greatest player EVER to strap on a chin strap if its a 10/10 guarantee. Wow!

Sounds to me that Manning has gotten in the head of you and Belicheck.

[dunk7]

I think it was the right call based on the momentum of the game...Pats had no momentum and it was Hoodies hail mary to try and save the game. The only reason I don't call the play is based on the timeout/challenge situation. I think Faulk had the first down and if challenged I think we'd be calling Belicheat a genius.

[T.K.O.]

i missed the game but saw the highlights....or lowlights depending.....and it looked like they made the 1st down ,its not at all unusual for the refs to spot the ball as a 1st on that play i kinda think bill got robbed...but fortunately i dont care if the pats or colts win. so i didnt lose any sleep over it,i am however a bit bummed about the recent events in the afcw:mad:

[sanluis]

Division rival game coming up and you guys would rather talk about this ...:rolleyes:



I wonder why :lol:

[Ravage!!!]

Division rival game coming up and you guys would rather talk about this ...:rolleyes:



I wonder why :lol:

yeah.."rather" is the word.


The difference is... Bronco fans have the ability to actually have more than a single train of thought. We can have more than one conversation.

:coffee:

[Overtime]

jesus christ, are we still arguing this? :coffee:

[weazel]

Brady is still > Manning.

3 Super Bowl Rings to Mannings 1.

/end thread.

**** Manning, **** the Colts.

nope...

Manning plays QB the way it is supposed to be played. The Colts barely need an offensive coordinator. He reads the game like no other.

He has to be considered one of the best QB's that has played the game.

I have one argument against Brady being one of the best... Matt Cassel looked just as good as him in the same offense... Matt cassel looks like Chris Simms with the Chiefs.

if this has been stated, sorry. I didnt read the thread after this post.

[sanluis]

yeah.."rather" is the word.


The difference is... Bronco fans have the ability to actually have more than a single train of thought. We can have more than one conversation.

:coffee:

You do, but not most!


More than a single train of thought??? No, It appears they don't !!


:lol:

[ursamajor]

making a team go 70-80 yrds is in NO WAY... the same as giving them a TD. Its in, NO WAY, the same as making a team go 28 yrds. There is NO WAY.. you can say "giving the ball to Manning 70-80 yrds away from the endzone, is nearly the same as GIVING him a TD." Thats absurd.

I agree, but we are not talking about "a team" we are talking about Peyton Manning who just brought his team back from a 17 point deficit. "A team" yes you punt. Peyton Manning...you keep the ball away from him.

[Poet]

Tom Brady isn't as good as Peyton Manning. Tom Brady is so valubale to his team that a backup could come in and win 11 games and put up good stats. I'm sorry, Brady is an elite QB, but Manning is far superior.

[ursamajor]

You can't tell me that Brady is the best player on the field if Manning scores 10/10 times from 80 yrds out.

LOL, I never said Brady was the best player on the field. I said he is the best player on the Pats. Manning was the best player on the field, and the league for that matter.
Over 2 minutes, with a time out, I am not conceding the ball to be put in Peyton's hands with so much time on the clock.

[BroncoWave]

Math shows that Belichick made the right call:

http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/6424/math-shows-belichick-barely-made-right-call

[Ravage!!!]

:lol: Then how did he lose??? Math doesn't have a damn thing to do with it. Percentages don't have anything to do with it. It ALLL comes down to what yrd line that ball was on.

[Ravage!!!]

I agree, but we are not talking about "a team" we are talking about Peyton Manning who just brought his team back from a 17 point deficit. "A team" yes you punt. Peyton Manning...you keep the ball away from him.

This is what I don't get.

Peyton Manning has to have the balls CAUGHT by the rookie Wrs that dropped balls, stopped short, made different reads than Manning all night long. OL hold. Penalties are made. RBs drop/fumble the ball.

You are going against the TEAM of the Indy Colts that your TEAM had been dominating allllll game long.

[BroncoWave]

:lol: Then how did he lose???

Because neither options yields a 100% chance of winning and this just happened to fall in the fortunate 20% losing range, just as punting the ball could have done.