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TXBRONC
11-12-2009, 11:42 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_13767542

Krieger: Deep ball high on Orton's wish list
By Dave Krieger
Denver Post Columnist
Posted: 11/12/2009 01:00:00 AM MST


There's a new voice calling for the Broncos to throw the ball down the fieldKyle Orton's.

It is his coach, Josh McDaniels, who seems reluctant to let him try.

Granted, this requires a little tea-leaf reading.

The only times we actually see Orton and McDaniels talking is on the sideline during games. Sometimes it looks as if they're yelling at each other, but we can't hear what they're saying.

McDaniels assures us that what you say is more important than how you say it, and that Orton has a thick skin, so I guess we have some idea what they're saying.

But I wasn't even asking Orton about that Wednesday when he volunteered that it would be great to make a few plays down the field.

He was arguing that what the Broncos did to themselves was more important than what the Ravens and Steelers did to them the past two weeks. So I asked him what's at the top of that list.

"We've got to stay balanced," he said. "We've got to find a way to run the ball. We've got to find ways to make plays in the passing game. We made chunk plays, I think, in the passing game last week, the 20- and 25-yard plays.

"But we've also got to find ways to make bigger plays, no question about it. It's tough to always rely on eight-, 10-play drives to score points. So it'd be great to find ways to score in three- or four-play drives."

Maybe he was thinking of the four-play, 80-yard drive that gave Pittsburgh the lead for good Monday night — an 18-yard pass play, a 24-yard running play, a 35-yard pass play and a 3-yard touchdown pass.

The conventional wisdom, of course, is that Orton can't make the long throws, so when Orton says the Broncos need more long pass plays, "no question about it," you have to wonder just what he's trying to say.

So I asked his coach whether it's worth throwing the ball down the field a few times just to keep the safeties honest, even if those balls aren't caught.

"It's easy to say that," McDaniels replied. "When (Steelers safeties) Troy Polamalu and Tyrone Carter are 35 yards deep during the course of the game and you threw for 190 yards in the first half or whatever it might have been (actually 163), we were having success doing what we thought we should do to win the game.

"There's plays that we have in our offense, and we always will, where if nobody's back there, that's where we're going, and if somebody is back there, we're not going to go there.

"So we're going to continue to coach and do the things we've done to be successful. We're not going to change that."

I don't have the coach's game film, but it didn't look to me as if Polamalu and Carter were playing 35 yards off the line of scrimmage very often. In fact, we can document where they were the three times they intercepted Orton:

• In the second quarter, the line of scrimmage was the Broncos' 42-yard line. Carter intercepted Orton's pass at the Broncos' 48.

• In the fourth quarter, the line of scrimmage was the Broncos' 9. Polamalu intercepted at the Broncos' 23.

• Later in the fourth, the line of scrimmage was the Broncos' 37. Carter intercepted at the Broncos' 45.

That's three interceptions by safeties 6, 14 and 8 yards from the line of scrimmage. So just how many shots at a deep throw did McDaniels give Orton?

"We had a couple called — we didn't get the looks that we wanted and we didn't throw them," Orton said.

Two? Two field-stretching calls with checkdowns if they don't get the defensive look they want? Out of 54 plays?

That might help explain why more than half of the Broncos' pass plays this season — 54.7 percent — have gone for 10 yards or fewer, according to a breakdown by my colleague Jeff Legwold.

Orton agrees with his coach that certain conditions are required to throw the deep ball.

"You've got to have time to throw it down the field," he said. "You've got to have the run, hopefully, to set up the coverage that you want to throw it against."

Still, with a receiver the size of Brandon Marshall, you'd think you might take a shot at a jump ball every now and then just to give him a chance to make a play.

In any case, I asked Washington coach Jim Zorn if he saw things in the Broncos' game film of the last two weeks that he could use against them Sunday.

"I wouldn't want to answer that question in great detail," he said.

"I hope we can."

Dave Krieger: 303-954-5297 or dkrieger@denverpost.com or twitter.com/DaveKrieg

Dirk
11-12-2009, 12:05 PM
Obviously we aren't coaches and don't know everything...but no threat downfield equals a lot of crowding the line and giving less chance for short completions and runs. At least that's how I see it.

TXBRONC
11-12-2009, 12:32 PM
Obviously we aren't coaches and don't know everything...but no threat downfield equals a lot of crowding the line and giving less chance for short completions and runs. At least that's how I see it.

I don't think Krieger is calling McDaniels out as liar but all three of Kyle's interceptions were within 15 yards of the line of scrimage and at that it was the safties that made all the picks.

topscribe
11-12-2009, 12:36 PM
I don't think Krieger is calling McDaniels out as liar but all three of Kyle's interceptions were within 15 yards of the line of scrimage and at that it was the safties that made all the picks.

http://broncosforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=816040&postcount=91

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NightTrainLayne
11-12-2009, 12:37 PM
I don't think Krieger is calling McDaniels out as liar but all three of Kyle's interceptions were within 15 yards of the line of scrimage and at that it was the safties that made all the picks.

That's where the balls were intercepted. That doesn't mean that's where the safeties lined up before the play. .. at the pre-snap read.

TXBRONC
11-12-2009, 12:39 PM
That's where the balls were intercepted. That doesn't mean that's where the safeties lined up before the play. .. at the pre-snap read.

Yeah and it doesn't mean that they were 35 yard off of the ball before the play.

NightTrainLayne
11-12-2009, 12:45 PM
Yeah and doesn't mean that were 35 yard off of the ball before the play.

Yes, I know. What I'm trying to say is that possibly, the Ravens and Steelers happened to find a weakness in what we were asking Orton to do in reading the field, and pre-snap showed safeties deep a lot and moved up as we moved to snap, effectively taking away the deep pass because Orton would check it off the list before the snap.

I don't know. Television coverage is horrible for seeing anything in the secondary before the ball gets there. But in the article posted Krieger is trying to argue against McD saying that the safeties were "lined up" deep by documenting where the interceptions happened. .. that is not necessarily where they lined up.

Dortoh
11-12-2009, 12:47 PM
"Cutler is our QB"

Just saying.

TXBRONC
11-12-2009, 12:50 PM
"Cutler is our QB"

Just saying.

I don't think the article is a knock on Orton. I was getting out the article that Kreiger was saying that Denver needs to find away to start stretching the field a bit more.

claymore
11-12-2009, 12:51 PM
Yes, I know. What I'm trying to say is that possibly, the Ravens and Steelers happened to find a weakness in what we were asking Orton to do in reading the field, and pre-snap showed safeties deep a lot and moved up as we moved to snap, effectively taking away the deep pass because Orton would check it off the list before the snap.

I don't know. Television coverage is horrible for seeing anything in the secondary before the ball gets there. But in the article posted Krieger is trying to argue against McD saying that the safeties were "lined up" deep by documenting where the interceptions happened. .. that is not necessarily where they lined up.

If the game didnt make me sick to my stomach id go back and watch it again. Thinking back on it, I cannot remember the safties being that far back at any given time.

Ravage!!!
11-12-2009, 12:51 PM
Yeah and doesn't mean that were 35 yard off of the ball before the play.

I think people are taking the '35 yrds' thing too literally. McDaniels may have used that number when talking, but what safeties play 35 yrds off the ball??? That would nearly be lining up for a punt return. That would mean, that if we had the ball on our own 20 yard line, their safeties would be lining up on THEIR own 45! NO WAY IN HADES the Pittsburgh Steelers safeties were playing 35 yards back on ANY play (not to mention EVERY play). You might line that far back if its the last play of the game.

Safeties in general line 15 yrds off the LoS... why would they be lining up 35 yrds back when Polomunnunununu is an integral part of their run defense and blitze packages??? :confused:

McDaniels was exaggerating. He probably thought that saying 35 yards was enough of an exaggeration that people would get it.

TXBRONC
11-12-2009, 12:52 PM
Yes, I know. What I'm trying to say is that possibly, the Ravens and Steelers happened to find a weakness in what we were asking Orton to do in reading the field, and pre-snap showed safeties deep a lot and moved up as we moved to snap, effectively taking away the deep pass because Orton would check it off the list before the snap.

I don't know. Television coverage is horrible for seeing anything in the secondary before the ball gets there. But in the article posted Krieger is trying to argue against McD saying that the safeties were "lined up" deep by documenting where the interceptions happened. .. that is not necessarily where they lined up.

I agree it may very well be that the Steelers and Ravens found weakness in what Orton is being asked to read in the pre-snap.

Requiem / The Dagda
11-12-2009, 12:56 PM
Look at the bright side, if we still had Jay Brimley as QB he'd probably have eight times as many interceptions as abORTON.

claymore
11-12-2009, 01:00 PM
Look at the bright side, if we still had Jay Brimley as QB he'd probably have eight times as many interceptions as abORTON.

And half the Touchdowns! :werd:

Requiem / The Dagda
11-12-2009, 01:03 PM
And half the Touchdowns! :werd:

WhAT? (http://boards.ign.com/football/b5105/186336176/p1/)

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/small/0812/jay-cutler-you-sucked-ass-wtf-demotivational-poster-1230537360.jpg

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Lord_Zath/jay-cutler-sack.jpg

claymore
11-12-2009, 01:06 PM
WhAT? (http://boards.ign.com/football/b5105/186336176/p1/)

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/small/0812/jay-cutler-you-sucked-ass-wtf-demotivational-poster-1230537360.jpg

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Lord_Zath/jay-cutler-sack.jpg

Peace Out Cutler...... I hope you enjoy your mad poon, probowls and Millions of Dollars.

claymore
11-12-2009, 01:07 PM
WhAT? (http://boards.ign.com/football/b5105/186336176/p1/)

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/small/0812/jay-cutler-you-sucked-ass-wtf-demotivational-poster-1230537360.jpg

http://www.msprotege.com/members/Lord_Zath/jay-cutler-sack.jpg

LOL, lets find a forum and pretend to be girls. :D

topscribe
11-12-2009, 01:08 PM
I don't think the article is knock on Orton. I was getting out the article that Kreiger was saying that Denver needs to find away to start stretching the field a bit more.

I don't always agree with Krieger, but I do here. That needs to happen, IMO.

It will help if they can begin to have some success running the ball . . .

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