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WARHORSE
01-10-2008, 09:17 PM
Due an option bonus of $6 million this year, consider the baby factory with a bad limp gone.

Give that $6 million to Barber or Turner as a first installment, or Faneca.

BOSSHOGG30
01-10-2008, 09:19 PM
Yeah I think he is gone too...

Selvin Young and Andre Hall might not be work horse runningbacks, but they are dangerous, and with the RB draft class being one of the best I remember someone really good is sure to slide.

TXBRONC
01-10-2008, 09:20 PM
I don't think so.

Watchthemiddle
01-10-2008, 09:21 PM
I don't think so.

Me either. WOuldn't the cap hit be worse then the actual bonus?

TXBRONC
01-10-2008, 09:25 PM
Me either. Wouldn't the cap hit be worse then the actual bonus?

From my understanding which I admit is limited we would take substantial cap hit.

sanluis
01-10-2008, 09:30 PM
Me either. WOuldn't the cap hit be worse then the actual bonus?


It might only reduce the hit by the base salary of the 08 season. I believe T. H. was given 12mil at signing. Denver will only be able to spread that over 2007 and 2008 season depending on when he is cut. So 6mil in dead cap might hit the 2008 # if T.H. is cut. But if you don't like him and think you can get a runner like Turner then I could see pulling the trigger. Why give another 6 mil to T.H. if you r not happy with his performance. It will be a hard call in March.

Does anyone have his contract summary?

Watchthemiddle
01-10-2008, 09:30 PM
From my understanding which I admit is limited we would take substantial cap hit.

Thats not worth it if you ask me. As much as I would love an every down, hard nosed play 16 game RB....( which Henry could be but gets hurt too much ) I say we keep him.

No sense in taking a hit for nothing. Atleast with giving him a bonus, he is still on the team and can contribute.

MOtorboat
01-10-2008, 09:32 PM
Um...doesn't he take a bigger cap hit if he cut him...just a thought...

sanluis
01-10-2008, 09:35 PM
Thats not worth it if you ask me. As much as I would love an every down, hard nosed play 16 game RB....( which Henry could be but gets hurt too much ) I say we keep him.

No sense in taking a hit for nothing. Atleast with giving him a bonus, he is still on the team and can contribute.

I don't think it would be a 6mil hit. You might even save 500k becuase the signing bonus and the roster bonus would cancel each other out. Saving Denver what ever T. H. base salary is for the 2008 season. This assumes Henry received a 12 mil signing bonus and that Denver is able to spread that bonus over the 2007 and 2008 season.

So I think that Denver will save a little bit of cap 500 to 600 K if they cut him.

sanluis
01-10-2008, 09:38 PM
Um...doesn't he take a bigger cap hit if he cut him...just a thought...


No, I think Denver saves a little money if my numbers are close.

Stats
01-10-2008, 09:43 PM
That would be the best thing ive heard in a long time. To me the most frustrating part of last year was watching Young and Hall do extremely well, and then not get any carries the next week because the pot smoker was back.

broncofanatic1987
01-10-2008, 09:50 PM
Don't get your hopes up for Henry being released. Who's out there that would replace him? Why wouldn't the Cowboys lock up Barber? Why wouldn't the Chargers lock up Turner? Who's to say that either would choose Denver over other teams that will be able to offer more money?

Henry is a perfect fit for the offense. If he can stay healthy, he will have a big year. If the Broncos don't think Henry will stay healthy and decide to cut him, Shanahan will likely be forced to return to the RBBC, which is what he was trying to avoid by bringing Henry to the Broncos in the first place. Despite what people like to say about the Broncos' ability to produce running backs, they haven't had an elite one since Portis. Henry has been the closest they've gotten to an elite back since getting rid of Portis. The others have been just a bunch of pretenders. A healthy Travis Henry could gain 1,500 yards. He was on pace to get that this season before he got hurt.

I won't be surprised if the Broncos do get rid of Henry, but it isn't something to hope for. They're not likely to find an upgrade unless they draft one at the #12 spot.

Skinny
01-10-2008, 10:04 PM
Don't forget to throw in the $25,000 Mikey got hit with by the League when Henrys drug suspension was being appealed.

I don't know ... Not going to say it is'nt going to happen because it very well could (release or trade). But Mikey really took a stand for Travis during this drug test thing and went to bat for him. Mikey put his reputation on the line for him and i just find it funny that after all that ... he gets rid of him ...

But then, it could be a numbers thing ... you never know with Mikey ...

Unless WAR knows something he is'nt telling us ... :ear: :call: :call2:

Lonestar
01-10-2008, 10:05 PM
It might only reduce the hit by the base salary of the 08 season. I believe T. H. was given 12mil at signing. Denver will only be able to spread that over 2007 and 2008 season depending on when he is cut. So 6mil in dead cap might hit the 2008 # if T.H. is cut. But if you don't like him and think you can get a runner like Turner then I could see pulling the trigger. Why give another 6 mil to T.H. if you r not happy with his performance. It will be a hard call in March.

Does anyone have his contract summary?
Player Base Salary Sign Bonus Other Bonus Total Salary Cap Value
Henry, Travis $ 595,000 $ 6,000,000 $ 100,000 $ 6,695,000 $ 1,895,000

Lonestar
01-10-2008, 10:08 PM
I'm pretty sure I heard mikey say today that several players would be talked to about contract re-do concerning their limited playing time this past year..

walker, Thenry, lynches names were on the list..

TXBRONC
01-10-2008, 11:38 PM
That would be the best thing ive heard in a long time. To me the most frustrating part of last year was watching Young and Hall do extremely well, and then not get any carries the next week because the pot smoker was back.

Young and Hall's carries diminshed because they kept getting banged up.

Rick
01-10-2008, 11:45 PM
He ended up getting hurt but can't ignore the fact that before getting hurt he was leading the league in rushing.

Tned
01-11-2008, 12:02 AM
Due an option bonus of $6 million this year, consider the baby factory with a bad limp gone.

Give that $6 million to Barber or Turner as a first installment, or Faneca.

Are you sure about this? I don't believe Henry is due any bonus this year, at least based on everything I have read. According to RotoWorld, he is a bargain in '08: 2008: $730,000 (+ $100,000 workout bonus).

In '09, they say he has a $6 million guaranteed-for-injury option bonus due 3/1, but I am not sure what that means.

When I rean the numbers in another thread (based on the info that is available) it was going to cost around $7.5 million more in cap room to release him then keep him.

G_Money
01-11-2008, 12:15 AM
He ended up getting hurt but can't ignore the fact that before getting hurt he was leading the league in rushing.

Travis Henry, first 6 games (when he led the league in rushing):

139 yards, 6.0 ypc against the 25th ranked rushing defense by ypg (Buffalo)
128 yards, 4.9 ypc against the 31st ranked rushing defense by ypg (Oakland)
35 yards, 3.2 ypc against the 11th ranked rushing defense by ypg (J-ville)
131 yards, 5.0 ypc against the 15th ranked rushing defense by ypg (Indy)
65 yards, 4.1 ypc against the 16th ranked rushing defense by ypg (SD)
51 yards, 3.0 ypc against the 3rd ranked rushing defense by ypg (Pitt)

That doesn't look like world-class performance to me. If you rank the defenses by ypc his only impressive performance of the season was against Indy, who only gave up 3.8 ypc on the season. The Bills and Oak-town were two of the 5 worst rush Ds in the league for yards per carry.

Henry might still do things, but he didn't do anything special this year - even when he WAS healthy.

~G

Tned
01-11-2008, 12:22 AM
Travis Henry, first 6 games (when he led the league in rushing):

139 yards, 6.0 ypc against the 25th ranked rushing defense by ypg (Buffalo)
128 yards, 4.9 ypc against the 31st ranked rushing defense by ypg (Oakland)
35 yards, 3.2 ypc against the 11th ranked rushing defense by ypg (J-ville)
131 yards, 5.0 ypc against the 15th ranked rushing defense by ypg (Indy)
65 yards, 4.1 ypc against the 16th ranked rushing defense by ypg (SD)
51 yards, 3.0 ypc against the 3rd ranked rushing defense by ypg (Pitt)

That doesn't look like world-class performance to me. If you rank the defenses by ypc his only impressive performance of the season was against Indy, who only gave up 3.8 ypc on the season. The Bills and Oak-town were two of the 5 worst rush Ds in the league for yards per carry.

Henry might still do things, but he didn't do anything special this year - even when he WAS healthy.

~G

Agreed, if the Broncos weren't backed in a corner with his contract (cap hit they would take if they released him), I wouldn't be surprised if they let him go. But, the fact that next year he will make little more than the league minimum, he will probably be on the team, even if another back wins the starting job.

BroncoAV06
01-11-2008, 12:32 AM
There are drawbacks to signing bonuses for the owner, however. Because the bonus is guaranteed to the player, if the player is released, traded or waived, all of the bonus money that was being prorated throughout the length of the contract is accelerated to the present year. So, if our team released its star player after the third year of his contract (before June 1) for whatever reason, the entire remainder of the bonus, almost $6.3-million, will have to count toward the cap the next year (if the team releases the player after June 1, only the yearly $1.57-million will count the next year, and the remainder will count the subsequent year).
http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/question644.htm

Was looking for something else but came across this. It explains the salary cap and bonuses in basic terms. Found it interesting myself.

As for Henry I think he will be a Bronco next year, Shany did go out on a limb for him. I think alot of it will depend on how the reworking of his contract goes. Healthy Henry was a good RB but the question is, is was what the Broncos are left with.

I thought Dallas extended M. Barber earlier this season? Am I just going crazy?

G_Money
01-11-2008, 12:33 AM
Agreed, if the Broncos weren't backed in a corner with his contract (cap hit they would take if they released him), I wouldn't be surprised if they let him go. But, the fact that next year he will make little more than the league minimum, he will probably be on the team, even if another back wins the starting job.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinkin' too. IIRC we can cut him in 2 years with no penalties, but the next two seasons there's a cap hit. We might be willing to suck it up for a year (ie, cut him after the upcoming season) but I don't think it's happening with 2 years left in the red.

They're definitely gonna try to re-work his deal, though - it'd help now and help make him tradable if that comes up later.

I think he's more likely to re-negotiate than Javon is, FWIW.

~G

Tned
01-11-2008, 12:40 AM
http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/question644.htm

Was looking for something else but came across this. It explains the salary cap and bonuses in basic terms. Found it interesting myself.

As for Henry I think he will be a Bronco next year, Shany did go out on a limb for him. I think alot of it will depend on how the reworking of his contract goes. Healthy Henry was a good RB but the question is, is was what the Broncos are left with.

I thought Dallas extended M. Barber earlier this season? Am I just going crazy?

I did a breakdown/explanation of how signing bonuses work (a little convuluted, but I attempted to show how the signing bonuses and typically escalating salary make it very hard to cut a player early in his contract, but there will be a point where it becomes a break even, or savings to cut him.


No, the 4.5 / 4.5 savings isn't correct, here's why.

Signing bonuses are handled in a certain way, and it was agreed to, mostly because until recent years, the NFL didn't have any guaranteed salary in their contract. So, before signing bonuses, a player could sign a 10 year, $50 million contract, and if after year one, the player was injured or played bad, the team could cut him, and not pay him any of the $45 million left on his contract.

So, the players union and NFL agreed on the concept of signing bonuses. The way a signing bonus works is it seperates when the cash is actually paid, from when it counts against the teams salary cap. So, just for a hypothetical, lets look at a player that signs a 5 year, $30 million contact, that includes $10 million in signing bonuses.



Bonus Bonus
Year Salary Paid Cap Total Cap
1 $2.0 $10.0 $2.0 $4.0
2 $2.5 $2.0 $4.5
3 $4.0 $2.0 $6.0
4 $5.0 $2.0 $7.0
5 $6.5 $2.0 $8.5


Ok, if you look at the above example (uses an escalating base salary figure, which is common in modern contracts), you will see a couple things, first, in year one, the player is paid $10 million in bonus money. This is cash that is physically given to him. However, only $2 million of that counts against the cap in year one, this is the prorated nature of the cap that accomplishes two things. First, it gives the player cash up front, and second, it penalizes a team that wants to cut a player after the first year or two of his contract.

At any point in that contract, if the player is cut or traded, all remaining money in the "bonus cap" column is counted towards the next seasons salary cap. So, in that example above, if the player was cut after season one, then then there would be $8 million of prorated signing bonus that hadn't been counted against the cap ($2 million x 4 years) that would have to be counted agaisnt the cap or escalated. That is $3.5 million more than the $4.5 million cap figure the player would have counted in year two of his contract if he stayed on the roster.

Then, if the player was cut after year two, then the team would have to escalate the last three years ($2 million x 3 years) or $6 million to count against the cap, vs. the $6 million ($4 million in salary, and $2 million in prorated cap) that the player would cost to keep him on the roster, so year three would be a wash in terms of keeping the player or releasing him.

Then, if he was cut after year three, then there is only $4 million left in uncounted bonus money ($2 million x 2 years) that would have to be escalated and counted, but because the salaries increase at the back end of contracts, it would cost $7 million ($5 million in salary and $2 million in cap) to keep the player on the roster, therefore, there is a cap savings of $3 million by cutting the player after the third year.

It is important to understand the seperation of when signing bonuses are paid and when they count against the cap. I will do the above breakdown, but with Lepsis' contract in my next post.

sanluis
01-11-2008, 12:46 AM
Player Base Salary Sign Bonus Other Bonus Total Salary Cap Value
Henry, Travis $ 595,000 $ 6,000,000 $ 100,000 $ 6,695,000 $ 1,895,000
Thanks Jr!

Here is a little more complete summary.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=NFL&id=2271

3/5/2007: Signed a five-year, $22.5 million contract. The deal included an $8.5 million signing bonus and contains $12 million in total guarantees. Also included is a stipulation requiring Henry to pay back $6 million of his signing bonus if he's suspended for drugs at any point during the deal. 2007: $595,000 (+ $100,000 workout bonus + $35,000 per-game roster bonuses), 2008: $730,000 (+ $100,000 workout bonus), 2009: $1.375 million (+ $6 million guaranteed-for-injury option bonus due 3/1 + $100,000 workout bonus), 2010: $2.4 million (+ $100,000 workout bonus + $500,000 roster bonus), 2011: $3.9 million (+ $100,000 workout bonus + $500,000 roster bonus), 2012: Free Agent


The 12mil in guarantee money is what would count against the cap. Denver would be able to spread it over the 2007 and 2008 season unless they waited until 6-1-2008 to cut him. Then they could spread the remaining unpaid bonus over 2008-09. I don't see anything about a 6mil bonus being paid this March?:confused: So there is no offset. Maybe Denver could go after 6mil for the Drug issues during the season. The thing is I don't think Henry missed any time due to the appeal with the win in court. So I think that is off the table.

So long story short cutting Henry right now would cost 12mil-the 8.5 mil paid in 2007 -730K due in salary for 2008 =for a total of 2.77 mil. That is a big chunk of change. So Henry is probably staying in Denver at least one more year IMO. The difference being the lack of a 6mil March 1 roster bonus.

Come June 1 cuts things could change obviously being able to spread the cap hit. Even so Bowlen would be out a bunch of cash. :eek:

Tned
01-11-2008, 01:00 AM
Thanks Jr!

Here is a little more complete summary.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_contract.aspx?sport=NFL&id=2271


The 12mil in guarantee money is what would count against the cap. Denver would be able to spread it over the 2007 and 2008 season unless they waited until 6-1-2008 to cut him. Then they could spread the remaining unpaid bonus over 2008-09. I don't see anything about a 6mil bonus being paid this March?:confused: So there is no offset. Maybe Denver could go after 6mil for the Drug issues during the season. The thing is I don't think Henry missed any time due to the appeal with the win in court. So I think that is off the table.

So long story short cutting Henry right now would cost 12mil-the 8.5 mil paid in 2007 -730K due in salary for 2008 =for a total of 2.77 mil. That is a big chunk of change. So Henry is probably staying in Denver at least one more year IMO. The difference being the lack of a 6mil March 1 roster bonus.

Come June 1 cuts things could change obviously being able to spread the cap hit. Even so Bowlen would be out a bunch of cash. :eek:


Actually, there would be no spreading it over '07 and '08.

If he is cut before June 1st, then the full hit (around $9 million) will count against '08 cap. If he is cut after June 1st, then the $9 million can be spread over '08 and '09, I believe it would be 1/3 ($3 million) in '08 and 2/3 ($6 million) in '09.

I could have the 1/3 2/3 reversed, but I believe that the 1/3 is the current year, and the 2/3 can be counted the following year (at the teams option, meaning if they have cap room, they can choose to take the full hit in '08).

Another important thing to remember is that teams are allowed a certain number of 'June cuts' (I think it is 2 or 3), that they can designate as a june cut, but release sooner. So, the Broncos could cut him in April, and designate him a June cut, and still spread the money.

sanluis
01-11-2008, 01:26 AM
Actually, there would be no spreading it over '07 and '08.

If he is cut before June 1st, then the full hit (around $9 million) will count against '08 cap. If he is cut after June 1st, then the $9 million can be spread over '08 and '09, I believe it would be 1/3 ($3 million) in '08 and 2/3 ($6 million) in '09.

I could have the 1/3 2/3 reversed, but I believe that the 1/3 is the current year, and the 2/3 can be counted the following year (at the teams option, meaning if they have cap room, they can choose to take the full hit in '08).

Another important thing to remember is that teams are allowed a certain number of 'June cuts' (I think it is 2 or 3), that they can designate as a june cut, but release sooner. So, the Broncos could cut him in April, and designate him a June cut, and still spread the money.

That is true. I think were I was getting crossed up is that I thought Denver already counted 8.5 mil to this years cap and didn't spread it over the 5 years. Leaving only 3.5 mil of guaranteed money to be accelerated. Can teams even do that? Chose to count more cap up front or do they have to spread it evenly over the term of the contract? If a team had the space it could be a good strategic move and set the team up better in later years while the players would still get their money.

I have heard of players with structured contracts that spread payments to reduce the cap hit and end up being paid well after they have left the game.

I wonder how Henry's contract is structured?

Timmy!
01-11-2008, 01:33 AM
Babies Daddy will be a Bronco next season.....

In-com-plete
01-11-2008, 07:45 AM
Travis Henry, first 6 games (when he led the league in rushing):

139 yards, 6.0 ypc against the 25th ranked rushing defense by ypg (Buffalo)
128 yards, 4.9 ypc against the 31st ranked rushing defense by ypg (Oakland)
35 yards, 3.2 ypc against the 11th ranked rushing defense by ypg (J-ville)
131 yards, 5.0 ypc against the 15th ranked rushing defense by ypg (Indy)
65 yards, 4.1 ypc against the 16th ranked rushing defense by ypg (SD)
51 yards, 3.0 ypc against the 3rd ranked rushing defense by ypg (Pitt)

That doesn't look like world-class performance to me. If you rank the defenses by ypc his only impressive performance of the season was against Indy, who only gave up 3.8 ypc on the season. The Bills and Oak-town were two of the 5 worst rush Ds in the league for yards per carry.

Henry might still do things, but he didn't do anything special this year - even when he WAS healthy.

~G

:confused:

Ok let me get this straight. Through 6 weeks in the season Henry was leading the league in rushing.....and that's not special? Did you know that at that point in the season he was on pace for 1464 yards? You know where that would have put him? 10 yards behind LT for the rushing title. Huh. You know, you're right. Nothing special.

A couple weeks ago, I commented on how fans will judge talent and how good/bad a player is based on whether they like them or what kind of person they think the player is. Sauerbrun is a perfect example. Plummer another. I think that's what's going on here with #420...errr...I mean #20.

TXBRONC
01-11-2008, 08:21 AM
Travis Henry, first 6 games (when he led the league in rushing):

139 yards, 6.0 ypc against the 25th ranked rushing defense by ypg (Buffalo)
128 yards, 4.9 ypc against the 31st ranked rushing defense by ypg (Oakland)
35 yards, 3.2 ypc against the 11th ranked rushing defense by ypg (J-ville)
131 yards, 5.0 ypc against the 15th ranked rushing defense by ypg (Indy)
65 yards, 4.1 ypc against the 16th ranked rushing defense by ypg (SD)
51 yards, 3.0 ypc against the 3rd ranked rushing defense by ypg (Pitt)

That doesn't look like world-class performance to me. If you rank the defenses by ypc his only impressive performance of the season was against Indy, who only gave up 3.8 ypc on the season. The Bills and Oak-town were two of the 5 worst rush Ds in the league for yards per carry.

Henry might still do things, but he didn't do anything special this year - even when he WAS healthy.

~G

I don't agree anytime you're leading the League in rushing that's pretty good. It doesn't matter what they is ranked and by the way the Bill couldn't have been ranked 31st at that time because it was game of year. Also the Pitt numbers Henry didn't play but about half the game.

Skinny
01-11-2008, 09:38 AM
Shanahan still mulling running back options

By Brian Howell
Longmont Times-Call
1/11/08

ENGLEWOOD - Mike Shanahan knows Selvin Young won't be the featured running back for the Denver Broncos, and Travis Henry isn't assured of being back in 2008.

Heading into the offseason, the Denver Broncos head coach isn't sure who will be carrying the ball full-time next season.

"To tell you who's going to be our No. 1 running back next year, I could b.s. you, but I wouldn't be telling the truth," Shanahan said Thursday at his final press conference of the season. "There's a lot to weigh with who's out there (in free agency) and what (Henry's) status is physically, is there any adjustment with the signing bonus."

Less than a year ago, Henry appeared to be the long-term answer. He signed a five-year, $22.5 million contract last March. His first year with the Broncos, however, was marred by injuries, and he's got off-the-field baggage. He won a hearing in midseason to avoid a one-year suspension for marijuana.

Henry is due a $6 million bonus in March if he's on the roster, but the Broncos could look to restructure his deal.

"There's a lot of money involved," Shanahan said of Henry. "You look at the money involved, and you have to make a decision that you think is best for your organization."

Shanahan did say that when he evaluates Henry, he'll take into consideration the first four games of the season, when Henry was healthy and rushed for an NFL-leading 433 yards. He spent much of the rest of the season injured, rushing for just 258 yards in the final 12 weeks.

"He never got back in football shape," Shanahan said. "I don't think he ever got healthy."

Henry's health paved the way for Young, an undrafted rookie who wound up leading the team with 729 yards rushing. He averaged 5.2 yards per carry, but he, too, battled injuries, and Shanahan is concerned the 5-foot-10, 207-pounder won't be able to handle the load of running 20-25 times a game for 16 weeks.

"Definitely not," Shanahan said. "Any time a guy gets hurt as many times as he did, you know there's no possible way he's going to carry it 20-25 times a game. The body just wouldn't hold up."

Shanahan is excited about Young, though. He showed on many occasions his breakout speed.

"You are looking at a guy that you know has big-play potential," Shanahan said. "You give him the ball 15-20 times a game, he's going to average 5 yards a carry."

http://www.timescall.com/sports_story.asp?id=5784

Fan in Exile
01-11-2008, 09:51 AM
Travis Henry, first 6 games (when he led the league in rushing):

139 yards, 6.0 ypc against the 25th ranked rushing defense by ypg (Buffalo)
128 yards, 4.9 ypc against the 31st ranked rushing defense by ypg (Oakland)
35 yards, 3.2 ypc against the 11th ranked rushing defense by ypg (J-ville)
131 yards, 5.0 ypc against the 15th ranked rushing defense by ypg (Indy)
65 yards, 4.1 ypc against the 16th ranked rushing defense by ypg (SD)
51 yards, 3.0 ypc against the 3rd ranked rushing defense by ypg (Pitt)

That doesn't look like world-class performance to me. If you rank the defenses by ypc his only impressive performance of the season was against Indy, who only gave up 3.8 ypc on the season. The Bills and Oak-town were two of the 5 worst rush Ds in the league for yards per carry.

Henry might still do things, but he didn't do anything special this year - even when he WAS healthy.

~G

This is pretty superficial. You're ignoring what our O-line was doing. That's not to say that he gets a free pass, or I wasn't hoping for more but you can't put it all on Henry, not with the turnover on the O-line.

Tned
01-11-2008, 10:01 AM
That is true. I think were I was getting crossed up is that I thought Denver already counted 8.5 mil to this years cap and didn't spread it over the 5 years. Leaving only 3.5 mil of guaranteed money to be accelerated. Can teams even do that? Chose to count more cap up front or do they have to spread it evenly over the term of the contract? If a team had the space it could be a good strategic move and set the team up better in later years while the players would still get their money.

I have heard of players with structured contracts that spread payments to reduce the cap hit and end up being paid well after they have left the game.

I wonder how Henry's contract is structured?

I'm not sure if they had the option of counting the full $8.5 million bonus in '07, but if they did, it would be a very unusual move.

The article that Skinny posted says he is due a $6 million bonus this year, which is cotrary to what Rotoworld list (not due that $6 million until march '09).

If that is accurate, that he has another $6 million bonus due in March, that might push Shanny to release him.

underrated29
01-11-2008, 10:20 AM
I didnt read all these pages, but i dont see it unless we draft a PIMP back who falls to us. There is no one out there that we could trade for or sign in FA. Turner imo is not that good, i have yet to see a lot of his action, but i think he is overrated. And i highley doubt he would come here.

Barber, to me is not a great fit here. He is an awesome back, breaks tackles and has a good stiff arm, but he is a bouncer. He likes to bounce and or take his runs outside. We need a person to plow the road. To run it right up their gut.

I think henry is that guy. I think with him healhty and our Oline healthy. And dare i say a few more offensive opportunities (defense actually gets off the field.) THen it in the BOOKS he will destroy.

I see that travis will restructure, we wont get a faller back in the draft. And after next year, everyone will say wow, i cant believe i didnt like henry.

BOSSHOGG30
01-11-2008, 10:44 AM
Too many good runningbacks available this year....

Free Agents:
Marion Barber
Michael Turner
Julius Jones

Good quality backs:
Darren McFadden
Jonathon Stewart
Rashard Mendenhall
Jamaal Charles
James Davis
Felix Jones
Kevin Smith
Mike Hart
Ray Rice
Tashard Choice
Matthew Forte
Chris Johnson
Dantrell Savage
Rafael Little
Thomas Brown
Yvenson Bernard
Albert Young
Timothy Hightower
Amir Pinnix
Xavier Omon

tubby
01-11-2008, 11:11 AM
Albert Young rules.

mclark
01-11-2008, 11:19 AM
Let's make the move for Mike Turner this year.

mclark
01-11-2008, 11:21 AM
I didnt read all these pages, but i dont see it unless we draft a PIMP back who falls to us. There is no one out there that we could trade for or sign in FA. Turner imo is not that good, i have yet to see a lot of his action, but i think he is overrated. And i highley doubt he would come here.



Why wouldn't he come here? Is Denver despised throughout the league? Does Turner despise us? Isn't our money green?

mopatt24
01-11-2008, 11:31 AM
Why wouldn't he come here? Is Denver despised throughout the league? Does Turner despise us? Isn't our money green?

Actually, we were going after Turner last off season until SD put that high tender on him. He was a target. I dont mind him in orange and blue, but I hope we do FA right and maybe taking Mendenhall in the second, if he slides

G_Money
01-11-2008, 11:33 AM
This is pretty superficial. You're ignoring what our O-line was doing. That's not to say that he gets a free pass, or I wasn't hoping for more but you can't put it all on Henry, not with the turnover on the O-line.

Travis Henry averaged 4.1 ypc.

Selvin Young averaged 5.2 ypc.

Henry had Nalen still in the game when he was rushing, while Young got Myers in the middle.

Now Selvin ALSO feasted on bad defenses. 81 yards / 10.1 ypc against Indy (who were good on D this year) but 265 yards / 7.2 ypc against the atrocious KC D, and 71 yards / 7.1 ypc against the abysmal Oak-Town D accounted for all of his games over 4.3 yards a rush. Which is one reason why I'm not content to leave Selvin as the starter if Henry goes.

There were OL woes, to be sure. But Henry was supposed to be a bull who could make his own yards after contact. Even before his knee injury he didn't do that. The times when he did were in the pre-season, which definitely got my hopes a bit too high.

We should have Hamilton and Nalen back next year, but I don't know how much Tom has left in the tank and Hamilton isn't exactly a road-grader in Rush offense. I certainly don't expect them to be the reason for a significant improvement in the run game, though I'm grateful both look to be returning.

So if it's not them, then it'll have to be the back running the ball who makes the difference. And Henry hasn't shown here that he can be a difference maker - not yet.

~G

mclark
01-11-2008, 11:41 AM
Actually, we were going after Turner last off season until SD put that high tender on him. He was a target. I dont mind him in orange and blue, but I hope we do FA right and maybe taking Mendenhall in the second, if he slides

If we were going after him last year, we should really be going after him this year (now that he's unrestricted, and considering the year we just had).

mopatt24
01-11-2008, 11:55 AM
If we were going after him last year, we should really be going after him this year (now that he's unrestricted, and considering the year we just had).

It'll make since

underrated29
01-11-2008, 11:57 AM
I still think turner is overrated. But even if we were to pursue him, we dont have enough money in our free space to compete with the other teams that are also going to be in the market for him, imo. That is even if we dump walker and henry for cap space.

Broncolingus
01-11-2008, 11:59 AM
Henry can stay but only at a much less $$$ figure...

Agree Selvin is not a feature back and won't be able to stand a 16 game season at 20-25 carries per game.

Hall looks promising but is unproven...

Henry, when healthy, would be the answer for a power runner in the red-zone...

Denver's priorities before HB, however are:

1. O-line
2. Solid FB

Lonestar
01-11-2008, 12:13 PM
I still think turner is overrated. But even if we were to pursue him, we dont have enough money in our free space to compete with the other teams that are also going to be in the market for him, imo. That is even if we dump walker and henry for cap space.

I believe the number I saw earlier this year was we had 16.7 mil under the cap with all the exsisting players contracts..


While I'm not thinking we should pursue him money should not be an issue..

G_Money
01-11-2008, 12:14 PM
Ok let me get this straight. Through 6 weeks in the season Henry was leading the league in rushing.....and that's not special? Did you know that at that point in the season he was on pace for 1464 yards? You know where that would have put him? 10 yards behind LT for the rushing title. Huh. You know, you're right. Nothing special.

I don't agree anytime you're leading the League in rushing that's pretty good. It doesn't matter what they is ranked and by the way the Bill couldn't have been ranked 31st at that time because it was game of year. Also the Pitt numbers Henry didn't play but about half the game.

Um...your opposition in a small sample-size example goes a very long way toward determining your standing. That's why you have to look at who he was playing when determining his actual effectiveness versus what the yards # column says. Especially in football, where every game is weighted so heavily because there are so few of them.

You don't go by where they were ranked at the time, because again the sample size is small. The larger the number of games played, the more accurate the averaged rankings will be.

So you look to the single-games to determine how to rate each individual performance, and the sum rankings to make overall assessments.

You want to know who had a great year this year? Brian Westbrook.

- He finished 3rd in the league in rushing, with 1333 yards, at 4.8 ypc.

- He did it playing the following ranked ypg rush Ds: #1 once, #4 twice, #6 twice, #8 once, #10 once.

He also missed a game, so pretty much half his games were against top 10 Ds, and he still came within a few yards of the NFC rushing title - while playing on a team not known as a rushing powerhouse. That's a pretty good year.

Do most RBs struggle against better Rush Ds? Yes.

Do all RBs pad their stats against lesser teams? Yes.

But if you want to know who the great RBs are, you look at how they do against good Rush Ds. Are they better than the norm? Normal? Worse?

I come from baseball analysis. Sample size and number-crunching are the norm there while football is more a sum-total game. But just saying, "Hey, he was leading the league after 5 games, he could have challenged for a rushing title" is spurious analysis. He had 3 good games and 2 bad games, and two of the good games were against what proved to be two of the worst Rush defenses in the league. After those 5 weeks he only had bad games, injured or not.

You have to look at WHY he was leading the league after 5 weeks (Adrian Peterson had a bye, Westbrook missed a game AND had a bye, et al) before proclaiming him the future rushing champion.

As Selvin Young and a host of others later proved, putting up a ton of yards against Oakland isn't a great accomplishment. Henry only did what every other starting back in the league did to that team.

Which doesn't make him a bad RB - it just doesn't make him a great one, either.

~G

silkamilkamonico
01-11-2008, 12:44 PM
Say no to Turner. He's TBell version 2.

Jones, no.....

Barber on the other hand......would solve all our problems I believe.

Italianmobstr7
01-11-2008, 12:44 PM
Barber is a 3rd down/short yardage RB, and Dallas is going to lock him up. Jones sucks, I don't know what to think about Turner. I don't think he's our style of RB.

HolyDiver
01-11-2008, 12:49 PM
I think we should get rid of Henry as long as it doesn't kill our cap.............Young could be our feature back and Hall could come in for 5-8 carries a game..............Draft a Runningback in the 5th round................I like Chauncy Washington from USC............A 220+ pound back with good running instincts.

CoachChaz
01-11-2008, 12:53 PM
I think we should get rid of Henry as long as it doesn't kill our cap.............Young could be our feature back and Hall could come in for 5-8 carries a game..............Draft a Runningback in the 5th round................I like Chauncy Washington from USC............A 220+ pound back with good running instincts.

I like Washington too, but i think we could get him later than the 5th

BOSSHOGG30
01-11-2008, 12:57 PM
Travis Henry will not return to the Broncos next season unless he accepts a substantial paycut.

Henry is due to make $6.7M in 2008, but it's clear that the Broncos have soured on him after an injury-plagued, scandal-ridden season. If Henry does not return, the Broncos will seek out another "lead, power-type back."
Source: Denver Post

BOSSHOGG30
01-11-2008, 12:59 PM
Broncos coach Mike Shanahan doesn't believe Selvin Young is an every-down running back.

Shanahan pointed out the big-play potential but warned that Young is ideal for 10-15 carries a game because his body won't hold up to the pounding of a full load. As if to prove his point, Shanny noted that Young will undergo minor knee surgery this week.
Source: Denver Post

HolyDiver
01-11-2008, 01:00 PM
I like Washington too, but i think we could get him later than the 5th

We don't have 6th round picks though, right? ............Don't think he'll last until the 7th..............Texans would grab him just as quickly as we would.

HolyDiver
01-11-2008, 01:03 PM
Broncos coach Mike Shanahan doesn't believe Selvin Young is an every-down running back.

Shanahan pointed out the big-play potential but warned that Young is ideal for 10-15 carries a game because his body won't hold up to the pounding of a full load. As if to prove his point, Shanny noted that Young will undergo minor knee surgery this week.
Source: Denver Post


Knee surgery? ...............He should just suck it up, like me. ...............But seriously, I somewhat disagree with Shanahan..........and that rarely happens............He, to me, is capable of handling more like what Portis did..............20-22 carries a game................Young also caught alot of passes, so, he was a busy guy for his first year.................I really think he'll be fine but having Hall and drafting a guy like Washington would take alot of the pressure off of him..............Give him 18-20 TOUCHES a game.

CoachChaz
01-11-2008, 01:04 PM
We don't have 6th round picks though, right? ............Don't think he'll last until the 7th..............Texans would grab him just as quickly as we would.

I guess I'll disagree with you on this. I think he'll last til the 7th if not until FA.

HolyDiver
01-11-2008, 01:07 PM
I guess I'll disagree with you on this. I think he'll last til the 7th if not until FA.


That would be great if he did. I think the guy is SEVERELY underrated.................6'1'' 220 running a 4.6 flat. Faster in pads type of player like TD...............Could be a potential feature back for us............A more durable Selvin Young.

G_Money
01-11-2008, 01:14 PM
That would be great if he did. I think the guy is SEVERELY underrated.................6'1'' 220 running a 4.6 flat. Faster in pads type of player like TD...............Could be a potential feature back for us............A more durable Selvin Young.


Chauncey Washington. What a story this young man is. He suffered through years of difficulty to make the starting line up. He was injured in his freshman year, followed by two years of academic ineligibility.

He finally gained eligibility in 2006, had some good games but was hampered by injuries. 2007 figured to be his breakout year. Instead, he started the year off on the injury list, after one play in the preseason final scrimmage game at the Coliseum. He had a breakout game against California, racking up 220 yards and a touchdown in a rain-soaked stadium. Chauncey Washington was again injured in the UCLA game and has been slowed down for the Rose Bowl practices. Look for Washington to have a big game in the Rose Bowl, his last in a long Trojan Career.

Can you please point me toward the durability aspect of his game?

I like his potential, but not as a feature back. Getting him in the 7th or FA is still fine with me, but I wouldn't pin several hundred carries on him as my first option.

~G

HolyDiver
01-11-2008, 01:17 PM
Can you please point me toward the durability aspect of his game?

I like his potential, but not as a feature back. Getting him in the 7th or FA is still fine with me, but I wouldn't pin several hundred carries on him as my first option.

~G

Man, alot of backs get dinged up.............Terrell Davis, was drafted in the 6th round, because he was injured his senior season...............Things happen, sometimes all at once................i purely go by gut instinct and not stats and articles.................Not saying that you are either. I watched him play in several games............and I liked what I saw....end of story.

Lonestar
01-11-2008, 01:23 PM
Broncos coach Mike Shanahan doesn't believe Selvin Young is an every-down running back.

Shanahan pointed out the big-play potential but warned that Young is ideal for 10-15 carries a game because his body won't hold up to the pounding of a full load. As if to prove his point, Shanny noted that Young will undergo minor knee surgery this week.
Source: Denver Post

This stuff was all in his press conference.

I think the RB coach Bobby might be telling mikey this. I would believe him more than jsut mikeys assesment.

Although We have to remember that young was rookie last year. He played a short college schedule at Texas and if I remember correctly he was hurt part of his last year.. Did not get into the swing of things in the Bronco system till after the draft..

All of these things may or may not play out in his development into STUD buffalo, TD was about the same size I think his heaviest playing weight was 212. Poortis about the same in the 210 range..

Personally I'd like to see him get up above 212 in the 215 or 218 range I think he could maintain most of his speed and add to the durability issue.

TD was not a speedster by any means he just got past the LOS untouched many times even though the D were playing the run..

IMO our OLINE does not scare anyone like the Superbowl models did..

HolyDiver
01-11-2008, 01:31 PM
When TD was drafted, he was listed at 6' 200 pounds.................He later in his career was playing at 215, according to him. Young is listed at 207-210, depending on what site.............So, another 5-8 pounds puts him at 215...............I think he would be fine there...............Just my opinion, I don't wanna piss anyone off.

G_Money
01-11-2008, 01:31 PM
He's just had what, ankle, hamstring, hip, and shoulder injuries?

And that's all without being the featured back.

I'm not a guy who needs a back to be totally healthy his whole career to feel good about his pro health prospects. One of the backs I'm thinking could drop is Tashard Choice, and I believe he'd be a GREAT fit in our O - but the kid damaged his knee this year. That injury history isn't holding me back from having him in my group of potentials.

I do what you do - I look at a guy and say, "man, I love the way he runs. That guy could be a monster here..." but at some point we should probably be realistic about injury concerns. Washington isn't a one injury guy. He's a guy who's twice had academic issues (ie, can't make it to basket-weaving on time and risks his football career over it) and when he is on the field he gets dinged up. His college injury history is actually a LOT like Selvin Young's, who says he wasn't really healthy since high school.

Travis Henry gets banged up too, and Henry got a big contract and has had himself a nice career in the pros. Washington could do quite well for himself in the big leagues...but I don't expect it to be a fully healthy experience for him either way.

And TD was a 6th rounder because he was injured, he couldn't get Garrison Freakin' Hurst outta the lineup, he'd transferred schools and he ran a poor 40 time at the combine. It was a perfect storm for us w/ TD. I'm hoping for the same perfect storm for a coupla other backs that could fall to us 2nd day, but a) it'd have to happen and b) we'd have to take em.

We'll see - maybe we'll like a guy like Washington lower down in the draft (or undrafted) more. ;) I like the way he runs and I would be fine with adding him. But I wouldn't call him a healthy Selvin Young without a few uninjured years toting the rock, since he hasn't had one of those yet in college.

~G

BOSSHOGG30
01-11-2008, 01:53 PM
Turner is probably saying to Shanny, "Please man, would you go out and get me an elite back I can show my stuff with... you're making me work to hard with these late rounders, undrafted free agents, and free agent trash... At least get me a 2nd round quality back.... Look what I did with Clinton Portis."

HolyDiver
01-11-2008, 02:10 PM
Turner is probably saying to Shanny, "Please man, would you go out and get me an elite back I can show my stuff with... you're making me work to hard with these late rounders, undrafted free agents, and free agent trash... At least get me a 2nd round quality back.... Look what I did with Clinton Portis."


Mendenhall then........

Tned
01-11-2008, 02:32 PM
Travis Henry will not return to the Broncos next season unless he accepts a substantial paycut.

Henry is due to make $6.7M in 2008, but it's clear that the Broncos have soured on him after an injury-plagued, scandal-ridden season. If Henry does not return, the Broncos will seek out another "lead, power-type back."
Source: Denver Post

Yes, based on these reports of the $6 million bonus being in '08 rather than '09 (which is what Rotoworld says), then I agree he is likely gone.

Doing rough math, he was guaranteed $12 million, of which $8.5 million was paid up front (signing bonus), plus another $700k or so in salary/bonus. So, he has been paid about $9.2 million of his $12 million guaranteed. This means, even if he is released, we will likely have to cough up $2.8 million in cash or so, to conclude his guaranteed portion of his contract.

Then, there is the cap. 1/5th of his signing bonus has already been counted, which leaves about $6.8million left that will be escalated to '08 or '08/'09 when he is cut.

So, it looks to me like if he is cut, he will have to be paid $2.8 million in cash, and will count $9 million towards our '08 or '08/'09 (released after June 1st) cap.

If he is kept, and paid $6 million, and if it is classified as signing bonus (prorated for life of contract in terms of cap), then he will be paid roughly $7 million in cash (bonus + salary), and count about $4.2 towards the '08 cap.

So, cut him: $2.8 million in cash and count $9 million against cap
Keep him: $7 million in cash, and count $4.2 million against cap, but adds further cap burden to future years.

Bronco9798
01-11-2008, 02:34 PM
I see the Broncos asking Henry to restructure and he will after Shanny had supported him during the drug thing. I think they push all that money back and restructure.

On the other hand, the Broncos will ask Javon the same thing, he will refuse.

underrated29
01-11-2008, 02:43 PM
I see the Broncos asking Henry to restructure and he will after Shanny had supported him during the drug thing. I think they push all that money back and restructure.

On the other hand, the Broncos will ask Javon the same thing, he will refuse.



I agree on all accounts.

I think you're right on the second account.

But i hope you are wrong on the second account.

Bronco9798
01-11-2008, 02:45 PM
I agree on all accounts.

I think you're right on the second account.

But i hope you are wrong on the second account.

I just don't see JW saying OK. His me me attitude will give him a ticket out of Denver with Shanny. Shanny will even sit on him awhile before trading him.

sanluis
01-11-2008, 02:54 PM
Yes, based on these reports of the $6 million bonus being in '08 rather than '09 (which is what Rotoworld says), then I agree he is likely gone.

Doing rough math, he was guaranteed $12 million, of which $8.5 million was paid up front (signing bonus), plus another $700k or so in salary/bonus. So, he has been paid about $9.2 million of his $12 million guaranteed. This means, even if he is released, we will likely have to cough up $2.8 million in cash or so, to conclude his guaranteed portion of his contract.

Then, there is the cap. 1/5th of his signing bonus has already been counted, which leaves about $6.8million left that will be escalated to '08 or '08/'09 when he is cut.

So, it looks to me like if he is cut, he will have to be paid $2.8 million in cash, and will count $9 million towards our '08 or '08/'09 (released after June 1st) cap.

If he is kept, and paid $6 million, and if it is classified as signing bonus (prorated for life of contract in terms of cap), then he will be paid roughly $7 million in cash (bonus + salary), and count about $4.2 towards the '08 cap.

So, cut him: $2.8 million in cash and count $9 million against cap
Keep him: $7 million in cash, and count $4.2 million against cap, but adds further cap burden to future years.

Thanks Tnedator!

It all comes down to that 6mil. If it is this year or next and how agreeable Henry is to restructuring his deal.:salute: Sure seems like a lot of Money!:shocked:

Lonestar
01-11-2008, 02:54 PM
I just don't see JW saying OK. His me me attitude will give him a ticket out of Denver with Shanny. Shanny will even sit on him awhile before trading him.

I think mikey will drop him in heartbeat if a good offer comes in..

His first interview was constant drum beat, I'll play elsewhere because I can still play.

Bronco9798
01-11-2008, 03:05 PM
Yes, based on these reports of the $6 million bonus being in '08 rather than '09 (which is what Rotoworld says), then I agree he is likely gone.

Doing rough math, he was guaranteed $12 million, of which $8.5 million was paid up front (signing bonus), plus another $700k or so in salary/bonus. So, he has been paid about $9.2 million of his $12 million guaranteed. This means, even if he is released, we will likely have to cough up $2.8 million in cash or so, to conclude his guaranteed portion of his contract.

Then, there is the cap. 1/5th of his signing bonus has already been counted, which leaves about $6.8million left that will be escalated to '08 or '08/'09 when he is cut.

So, it looks to me like if he is cut, he will have to be paid $2.8 million in cash, and will count $9 million towards our '08 or '08/'09 (released after June 1st) cap.

If he is kept, and paid $6 million, and if it is classified as signing bonus (prorated for life of contract in terms of cap), then he will be paid roughly $7 million in cash (bonus + salary), and count about $4.2 towards the '08 cap.

So, cut him: $2.8 million in cash and count $9 million against cap
Keep him: $7 million in cash, and count $4.2 million against cap, but adds further cap burden to future years.

Unless he restructures, right?

BOSSHOGG30
01-11-2008, 03:08 PM
I'm crossing my fingers.... Bye Bye Henry

WARHORSE
01-11-2008, 03:13 PM
I think one thing we have to remember is this: Henry lost his starting spot to Young, and Young is not an everydown back in the eyes of Shanny. (Count me as one of that belief as well)

There are alot of questions about Henry, and unless he takes a big pay cut while realizing hes not guaranteed the starting role, Denver will cut him after June 1, unless they feel it best to take the cap hit this year.

In realizing this, our cap number as it stands has Henrys contract taken into account.

Should McFadden and Stewart both come out, and Im pretty sure they will..........this draft will be knee deep in good RBs.

Who might look for a RB?

Houston
Tampa Bay
Seattle
Cleveland
Detroit
Arizona
Jets
Atlanta
Cowboys
Carolina

BOSSHOGG30
01-11-2008, 03:15 PM
Some have mentioned they aren't sold on Kuper or even Holland... Go back and watch the Vikings game... Kuper dominated Pat Williams, and Holland held his own against one of the top DT in the game, Kevin Williams. I for one am excited about our guard play.

Myers didn't do back for a young back up who was moved to center. If Hamilton comes back he might be asked to move to center, unless Nalen comes back as well then Shanny might move Kuper to tackle. But any way you look at it we are solid in the middle. We just need one more tackle.

Bronco9798
01-11-2008, 03:17 PM
Henry will restructure and stay in Denver, my opinion.

BOSSHOGG30
01-11-2008, 03:18 PM
I think one thing we have to remember is this: Henry lost his starting spot to Young, and Young is not an everydown back in the eyes of Shanny. (Count me as one of that belief as well)

There are alot of questions about Henry, and unless he takes a big pay cut while realizing hes not guaranteed the starting role, Denver will cut him after June 1, unless they feel it best to take the cap hit this year.

In realizing this, our cap number as it stands has Henrys contract taken into account.

Should McFadden and Stewart both come out, and Im pretty sure they will..........this draft will be knee deep in good RBs.

Who might look for a RB?

Houston
Tampa Bay
Seattle
Cleveland
Detroit
Arizona
Jets
Atlanta
Cowboys
Carolina

Plus you have to figure of those 10 teams, that Michael Turner, Julius Jones, and Marion Barber will find homes.. so really that means when you look to the NFL Draft only 7 teams will be jocking for runningbacks. Someone is going to slide pretty far and pretty much every team in the NFL will be loaded with at least one special runningback.

WARHORSE
01-11-2008, 03:23 PM
Some have mentioned they aren't sold on Kuper or even Holland... Go back and watch the Vikings game... Kuper dominated Pat Williams, and Holland held his own against one of the top DT in the game, Kevin Williams. I for one am excited about our guard play.

Myers didn't do back for a young back up who was moved to center. If Hamilton comes back he might be asked to move to center, unless Nalen comes back as well then Shanny might move Kuper to tackle. But any way you look at it we are solid in the middle. We just need one more tackle.



Agreed.

As long as Shanny feels good about them, fine. Another position not to concern ourselves with. Im really hoping we already have a new LT in Harris. If not, it may be Pears on the left, Harris on the right.

WARHORSE
01-11-2008, 03:25 PM
Plus you have to figure of those 10 teams, that Michael Turner, Julius Jones, and Marion Barber will find homes.. so really that means when you look to the NFL Draft only 7 teams will be jocking for runningbacks. Someone is going to slide pretty far and pretty much every team in the NFL will be loaded with at least one special runningback.


Would you rather have Barber, Turner or draft pick in second round?

BOSSHOGG30
01-11-2008, 03:27 PM
Would you rather have Barber, Turner or draft pick in second round?

Barber won't be available.. He stays a Cowboy... so he is out of the equation.

Turner will be available, but he will cost a lot... So I stick to the 2nd round and back.... James Davis shouldn't have come out so early... he will really slide, but he is incredible, so he might be the steal of the draft.

WARHORSE
01-11-2008, 03:28 PM
Henry will restructure and stay in Denver, my opinion.


One would think so after the way Shanny stuck by his side. My hope is that he doesnt stay though, it was terrible going through the season with him holding a clipboard.

WARHORSE
01-11-2008, 03:29 PM
Barber won't be available.. He stays a Cowboy... so he is out of the equation.

Turner will be available, but he will cost a lot... So I stick to the 2nd round and back.... James Davis shouldn't have come out so early... he will really slide, but he is incredible, so he might be the steal of the draft.



I guess deep down, thats what we are all hoping for.....a late round pick that comes in and blows us away.:beer:

BOSSHOGG30
01-11-2008, 03:31 PM
I just can't believe how many good runningbacks this draft has... Some of these players are stupid for coming out so early. James Davis and Jamaal Charles could of been 1st round picks next season. Now you looking at Charles as a 2nd or 3rd rounder and Davis as a 3rd or 4th rounder.

G_Money
01-11-2008, 03:31 PM
Davis and Choice are two guys who could fall and are terrific fits for our offense. Don't forget Kubes runs our offense, though, and he's looking for a back. Hope he takes somebody earlier so that one of "our guys" can fall to us on the 2nd day.

Aside: Can you imagine what a guy like Mendenhall would do for Kubes, running behind that OL and FB?

Just sayin...

~G

BOSSHOGG30
01-11-2008, 03:35 PM
Davis and Choice are two guys who could fall and are terrific fits for our offense. Don't forget Kubes runs our offense, though, and he's looking for a back. Hope he takes somebody earlier so that one of "our guys" can fall to us on the 2nd day.

Aside: Can you imagine what a guy like Mendenhall would do for Kubes, running behind that OL and FB?

Just sayin...

~G

You know Kubes is going to find his guys... he has a knack for it... I would be nervous if I was a Texans fan.. But unfortunately I'm not and therefore I always get nervous around draft time....Please Shanny get this year right.

G_Money
01-11-2008, 03:35 PM
I just can't believe how many good runningbacks this draft has... Some of these players are stupid for coming out so early. James Davis and Jamaal Charles could of been 1st round picks next season. Now you looking at Charles as a 2nd or 3rd rounder and Davis as a 3rd or 4th rounder.

Earlier this year they were talking about what a suck class of RBs this was gonna be with Mike Hart rated the best senior. Now I'm looking at it and I seriously can't believe the number and quality of juniors who are coming out and the strength of the class in general. It's terrific for us (assuming we get the right one...or one at all...) but strange for them, as you say.

I hope we scoop somebody up, though, because with this many juniors coming out next year's seniors are gonna be thin as well, and I don't think the junior class next year matches up with this year's.

~G

BOSSHOGG30
01-11-2008, 03:36 PM
Earlier this year they were talking about what a suck class of RBs this was gonna be with Mike Hart rated the best senior. Now I'm looking at it and I seriously can't believe the number and quality of juniors who are coming out and the strength of the class in general. It's terrific for us (assuming we get the right one...or one at all...) but strange for them, as you say.

I hope we scoop somebody up, though, because with this many juniors coming out next year's seniors are gonna be thin as well, and I don't think the junior class next year matches up with this year's.

~G

Yeah it will the next good group to come out won't be for another year or two. Led by Knowshon Moreno.

Bronco9798
01-11-2008, 03:40 PM
And you watch, we won't touch a RB day one. It will come late in day 2, if at all.

underrated29
01-11-2008, 03:42 PM
Would you rather have Barber, Turner or draft pick in second round?

While i would rather that we keep henry. In response to your question

ID go with the 2nd rd pick 100%. Lendale white was a projected 1st until his tits got bigger, portis was a 2nd rdr. And imo both those guys are or will be better than the above players you mentioned.

I doubt stewart falls to rd two, but i dont think it would be to far fetched. Just going off of memory here, i think that most of the later teams have rb;s and subsequently we might only see 2 taken in the first. dmac and stewart. (or another rb i dont yet know about, or combine warrior instead of stewart).

WARHORSE
01-11-2008, 04:00 PM
Watching Jamaal Charles run, I think hes a special player in the right backfield. He can run with authority in tight spaces. He makes guys miss in the hole. Not one, but sometimes two and three and four guys to gain positive yardage. The only thing I dont like about him, and it would not be something I would be concerned about here, is the fact that he runs out of bounds alot.
I can understand not taking undue punishment, but sometimes I just think his ability can do more if he were to hit it up between a couple of defenders instead of going out.

If he came to Denver, I think hed be a star. This guy can run the rock.

One thing I look for when looking at college RB prospects, is can they run in hard traffic with authority. Not necessarily running through guys, but still running with authority. Vision in the hole is something you have or you dont I believe. You'll see alot of highlights of college kids running in wide open spaces when they havent even been touched going through the line of scrimmage. Big deal is what I think. This guy is different.
This guy has it.

If you want to see a guy who doesnt have the most ability, but knows how to run, watch this video of Jamaal Charles. He has his wide open runs, but keep watching cause its the highlights from mid video on that impress me. He runs with vision and lean, and he still can put on weight with his style, as well as learn some things. Impressive.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bgOdDkjUo1s

BOSSHOGG30
01-11-2008, 04:05 PM
Speaking of Jamaal Charles... Here are some offical 100 meter times

Here is some interesting 100meter times for you....

Reggie Bush 10.42
Ted Ginn Jr. 10.5
James Stewart 10.5
Jamaal Charles 10.1

BOSSHOGG30
01-11-2008, 04:06 PM
And for those who don't know much about track... A tenth of a second in the 100 meter race is a lot!

Bronco9798
01-11-2008, 04:07 PM
Shanny won't take a RB with the first pick.

BOSSHOGG30
01-11-2008, 04:09 PM
Shanny won't take a RB with the first pick.

James Davis and Jamaal Charles won't even go in the 1st round. He doesn't have to. He can wait till the 2nd round if he wanted Charles and the 3rd or 4th round if he wanted Davis.

WARHORSE
01-11-2008, 04:09 PM
While i would rather that we keep henry. In response to your question

ID go with the 2nd rd pick 100%. Lendale white was a projected 1st until his tits got bigger, portis was a 2nd rdr. And imo both those guys are or will be better than the above players you mentioned.

I doubt stewart falls to rd two, but i dont think it would be to far fetched. Just going off of memory here, i think that most of the later teams have rb;s and subsequently we might only see 2 taken in the first. dmac and stewart. (or another rb i dont yet know about, or combine warrior instead of stewart).

No way Stewart falls should he come out. No way. Someone midfirst to late first will take him, or someone will trade back into the first to take him. I think hes the most complete back in the draft, including McFadden.

Alot of guys will groan at the thought of taking a RB in the second round here, myself included. Simply because at this point, we have so many needs. But its more going to be determined by who is selected where, and how many RBs are left, and what does the Denver F.O. think about each guy. Should Stewart fall as you suggested, he would be the steal of the century in Denver. My opinion.

WARHORSE
01-11-2008, 04:10 PM
Shanny won't take a RB with the first pick.

I agree. No way.

WARHORSE
01-11-2008, 04:11 PM
Speaking of Jamaal Charles... Here are some offical 100 meter times

Here is some interesting 100meter times for you....

Reggie Bush 10.42
Ted Ginn Jr. 10.5
James Stewart 10.5
Jamaal Charles 10.1


Im havin a hard time eating that one. He doesnt play that fast. Not near it.

BOSSHOGG30
01-11-2008, 04:12 PM
Im havin a hard time eating that one. He doesnt play that fast. Not near it.

Who? Jamaal

WARHORSE
01-11-2008, 04:12 PM
James Davis and Jamaal Charles won't even go in the 1st round. He doesn't have to. He can wait till the 2nd round if he wanted Charles and the 3rd or 4th round if he wanted Davis.


Im not a big Davis fan, but Jamaal may fall to the third.

WARHORSE
01-11-2008, 04:13 PM
Who? Jamaal


Yeah. You dont see him blazing corners and outrunning everyone. That comes with crazy speed.

underrated29
01-11-2008, 04:14 PM
agreed again as well.

but dont forget that lendale white was projected a top 10 pick. Alan branch (dt) was also projected top 15. both of them fell to the 2nd. Like i said far fetched, but not unheard of.

I do agree with you again though, that there is pretty much no way he makes it past 15..err id for now even say 8. But until i get some time and all the sites release some good scouting reports on it i can only go by word of mouth from people on here.

BOSSHOGG30
01-11-2008, 04:15 PM
James Davis video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeovxDqZYyA

BOSSHOGG30
01-11-2008, 04:17 PM
Jamaal Charles 100 meters at 10.1 link

http://www.mackbrown-texasfootball.com/index.php?s=&url_channel_id=40&url_article_id=2271&url_subchannel_id=&change_well_id=2

You can also find video's of him on youtube in the NCAA national track and field tournaments from his freshman year.

WARHORSE
01-11-2008, 04:19 PM
James Davis video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeovxDqZYyA


Reminds me of Mike Bell with good hands.

Not bad.

BOSSHOGG30
01-11-2008, 04:22 PM
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=12359

Here is a better article on the Jamaal Charles 100 meters because it tells you the Tedd Ginn and Reggie Bush times.

MOtorboat
01-11-2008, 04:25 PM
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=12359

Here is a better article on the Jamaal Charles 100 meters because it tells you the Tedd Ginn and Reggie Bush times.

Charles disappears in games...

WARHORSE
01-11-2008, 04:27 PM
Jamaal Charles 100 meters at 10.1 link

http://www.mackbrown-texasfootball.com/index.php?s=&url_channel_id=40&url_article_id=2271&url_subchannel_id=&change_well_id=2

You can also find video's of him on youtube in the NCAA national track and field tournaments from his freshman year.


Impressive.

I dont see it on the field, but its straight line speed. Impressive.

BOSSHOGG30
01-11-2008, 04:29 PM
Charles disappears in games...

Yeah like the games they don't give him the ball. Look at the games this year where he has at least 20 or more carries. Hard to do anything if your team isn't giving you the football.

Arkansas State 112
TCU 134
@UCF 153
Nebraska 290
@Oklahoma State 180
Texas Tech 174
Arizona State W 161

tubby
01-11-2008, 04:30 PM
Jamaal Charles is awesome. I would love to get him in the 2nd round.

WARHORSE
01-11-2008, 04:30 PM
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=12359

Here is a better article on the Jamaal Charles 100 meters because it tells you the Tedd Ginn and Reggie Bush times.


This isnt encouraging to me, because when he hits the combine, his draft position will move up.

Bummer. So much for thinking third round.

BOSSHOGG30
01-11-2008, 04:32 PM
This isnt encouraging to me, because when he hits the combine, his draft position will move up.

Bummer. So much for thinking third round.

I still think he falls to the 2nd round though. Darren McFadden and Jonathon Stewart should be picked before him. Charles reminds me of Clinton Portis.. and he may fall to the 2nd round just like Portis did. Every team will like his speed, but they won't like his size, so he should drop.

WARHORSE
01-11-2008, 04:33 PM
I still think he falls to the 2nd round though. Darren McFadden and Jonathon Stewart should be picked before him. Charles reminds me of Clinton Portis.. and he may fall to the 2nd round just like Portis did. Every team will like his speed, but they won't like his size, so he should drop.



Youre probablky right.
Makes you wonder about great backs like Felix Jones and Ray Rice, huh?

BOSSHOGG30
01-11-2008, 04:33 PM
Plus this helps:

NCAA | Stewart declares for NFL Draft
Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:18:28 -0800

ESPNews reports University of Oregon junior RB Jonathan Stewart declared he will enter the 2008 NFL Draft.

WARHORSE
01-11-2008, 04:39 PM
Plus this helps:

NCAA | Stewart declares for NFL Draft
Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:18:28 -0800

ESPNews reports University of Oregon junior RB Jonathan Stewart declared he will enter the 2008 NFL Draft.


WOOT!!!!!!!:elefant:

BOSSHOGG30
01-11-2008, 04:40 PM
If Charles was brought in to Denver he would give us that toss sweep back we use to do with Portis... Linebackers and defensive ends aren't fast enough to get to the outside and then throw in Marshall's run blocking skills.. it is one on one with the safety for Charles and I like his skills to get around him.

BOSSHOGG30
01-11-2008, 04:42 PM
I should post this for niner because I know he would say this if he was here...

Henry will be a Bronco next year so we aren't taking a runningback in the 1st day of the draft.

WARHORSE
01-11-2008, 04:43 PM
If Charles was brought in to Denver he would give us that toss sweep back we use to do with Portis... Linebackers and defensive ends aren't fast enough to get to the outside and then throw in Marshall's run blocking skills.. it is one on one with the safety for Charles and I like his skills to get around him.

I like the comparisons to Davis better. :coffee:

I loved the way he was patient, waiting for his blocks, and then he would hit the cutback seam for a homerun.

Bronco9798
01-11-2008, 04:43 PM
We're not taking a RB in the 1st round. End of story..Will never happen this year.

WARHORSE
01-11-2008, 04:44 PM
I should post this for niner because I know he would say this if he was here...

Henry will be a Bronco next year so we aren't taking a runningback in the 1st day of the draft.

He may be right.

Im thinking Denver will have three first day picks before its over.

Bronco9798
01-11-2008, 04:45 PM
The Broncos have absolutely no reason to take a RB in the 1st when there are so many "Need" areas.

CoachChaz
01-11-2008, 04:49 PM
The Broncos have absolutely no reason to take a RB in the 1st when there are so many "Need" areas.

Amen, Reverend Kev

G_Money
01-11-2008, 04:53 PM
No 1st round running backs.

...

But the delightful thing is that the first 4-5 rounds should be sprinkled with absolutely quality backs. Should make for a fun coupla days.

I just want one...

~G

WARHORSE
01-11-2008, 05:01 PM
We're not taking a RB in the 1st round. End of story..Will never happen this year.


Unless we swapped our 12 with Dallas for their two, or something along those lines, I agree.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-11-2008, 05:05 PM
I doubt he goes anywhere.

Tned
01-11-2008, 07:15 PM
Youre probablky right.
Makes you wonder about great backs like Felix Jones and Ray Rice, huh?

Has Jones declared yet? Not too many of Arkansas' games were televised this year, but the ones I watched him in, he was dynamic. Last year too. Both the run game and the return game.

BOSSHOGG30
01-11-2008, 07:31 PM
Has Jones declared yet? Not too many of Arkansas' games were televised this year, but the ones I watched him in, he was dynamic. Last year too. Both the run game and the return game.

I don't think he did yet. He is probably waiting to see what McFadden does.

Tned
01-11-2008, 07:32 PM
I don't think he did yet. He is probably waiting to see what McFadden does.

Hopefully he isn't following McFadden to the piano bars or Escalade dealerships :lol:

BOSSHOGG30
01-11-2008, 07:32 PM
Charles disappears in games...

Junior running back Jamaal Charles has declared himself for the 2008 NFL draft this April.

Charles stock has been on the rise after the speedster ripped off 897 yards rushing and 10 touchdowns in his last five games.
Source: ESPN.com

What does he do when he doesn't disappear... that is scary!