Come ON you guys!

[gnomeflinger]

Okay, so we lost 2 in a row. Yes, we made mistakes (thank you defense :rolleyes:), but good grief! We are eight games in - there is still a lot of football left to play. Maybe I'm just the eternal optimist, but I'm not frustrated yet. I think we can still pull out a winning season. If the team loses the next 4 games, I might rethink this. :) It was a disappointing loss, but look at the bright side. We lost to the Steelers, and not the Chefs. :D

[Superchop 7]

I will COME ON when we get a legit QB !!

[Dortoh]

I will COME ON when we get a legit QB !!

http://aka.zero.jibjab.com/assets/production/01/10/62/08/67217y.png

[gnomeflinger]

Eff you. I don't need a rainmaker in my thread, TYVM.

[Nomad]

Do you live in Quincy gnomey? The maps show some of Wa getting the game!!

[Dortoh]

Eff you. I don't need a rainmaker in my thread, TYVM.


Get'em Gnomey

[gnomeflinger]

Do you live in Quincy gnomey? The maps show some of Wa getting the game!!

No, close. I'm in Wenatchee, which is about 30 miles away.

[Dortoh]

This is a feel good thread so here goes.

This defense still is lights out top 5

We can always find a new punter

I'm sorry I got nothing on the offense right now Gnomey I'll try again later :)

[Nomad]

No, close. I'm in Wenatchee, which is about 30 miles away.

Looks like you're close gnomey!

I can take a lose gnomey as long as the BRONCOS don't give up which I believe they did in the last quarter of the last 2 games!! Other than that, looking forward to the Redskins game!!:salute:

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I will COME ON when we get a legit QB !!

Nate Jackson was on as guest with Mike Evans today on FM104.3thefan, and he had nothing but good things to say about Kyle. He also said that Kyle is NOT throwing down the field BECAUSE HE CAN NOT - he is NOT throwing down the field because Coach McD does NOT think he can - he is NOT throwing down the field because that is the design of the offense. It was great to hear a player's perspective on this.

[gnomeflinger]

I agree. McD has the potential to be a great coach, and with the defense, dropped the ball last night. Orton needs to take a chance and throw the ball down field. I rescind my first post. If we lose to Washington, that's bad. Real bad. But the Broncos can fix themselves. Orton needs to get his confidence back up, and the next game will be gravy.

[gnomeflinger]

Nate Jackson was on as guest with Mike Evans today on FM104.3thefan, and he had nothing but good things to say about Kyle. He also said that Kyle is NOT throwing down the field BECAUSE HE CAN NOT - he is NOT throwing down the field because Coach McD does NOT think he can - he is NOT throwing down the field because that is the design of the offense. It was great to hear a player's perspective on this.

Interesting. But that's what practice is for. :)

[Lonestar]

Well unless something happened WAS, had a real decent D it has been the O that has been a real issue.

So WAS may not be the push over we think it was.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

[Dortoh]

Well unless something happened WAS, had a real decent D it has been the O that has been a real issue.

So WAS may not be the push over we think it was.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

Washington push over = no
Washington = pittsburgh D = no
Washington = Average AFC team = no

Denver 42
Snyders 10

[gnomeflinger]

I still think just for kicks, they should try in practice. It's better to try and fail, then not try at all.

But I won't pretend to be an expert. I'm just a cheerleader. :lol:

[KCL]

Okay, so we lost 2 in a row. Yes, we made mistakes (thank you defense :rolleyes:), but good grief! We are eight games in - there is still a lot of football left to play. Maybe I'm just the eternal optimist, but I'm not frustrated yet. I think we can still pull out a winning season. If the team loses the next 4 games, I might rethink this. :) It was a disappointing loss, but look at the bright side. We lost to the Steelers, and not the Chefs. :D

You haven't played the "chefs" yet.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Interesting. But that's what practice is for. :)

Practice is for the QB/offense to practice the plays which are in the upcoming game plan. If there are no downfield passes, it will not be practiced.

[gnomeflinger]

Oh well, it was a nice thought. Maybe Kyle throw one on a fluke, during a Hail Mary moment. :D

[topscribe]

I will COME ON when we get a legit QB !!

Chop, you're giving the term "one-dimensional" a new meaning . . . :laugh:

-----

[topscribe]

Nate Jackson was on as guest with Mike Evans today on FM104.3thefan, and he had nothing but good things to say about Kyle. He also said that Kyle is NOT throwing down the field BECAUSE HE CAN NOT - he is NOT throwing down the field because Coach McD does NOT think he can - he is NOT throwing down the field because that is the design of the offense. It was great to hear a player's perspective on this.

Yes it was, although I believe they should redesign the offense, then, to heave
it deep just a couple times a game or so. That should do it . . .

-----

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Yes it was, although I believe they should redesign the offense, then, to heave
it deep just a couple times a game or so. That should do it . . .

-----

I agree - but Mike Evans also said that it takes approx. 5 seconds for the QB to set up/throw it downfield, and with the way the OL has been the last two games, it would not work.

[KCL]

Yes it was, although I believe they should redesign the offense, then, to heave
it deep just a couple times a game or so. That should do it . . .

-----

So why exactly doesn't Orton air it out? I have read so many post about him not doing it...personally myself I love to see a QB throw it down field...something I haven't got to witness lately....unless I'm watching other teams play.

[topscribe]

I agree - but Mike Evans also said that it takes approx. 5 seconds for the QB to set up/throw it downfield, and with the way the OL has been the last two games, it would not work.

During the first drive (but not much after that), Orton had that kind of time.
Personally, I would have done it the first play of the game. Even if it wasn't
competed, it might have served notice . . .

(But then, maybe I'm all wet.) :whoknows:

-----

[scott.475]

No, close. I'm in Wenatchee, which is about 30 miles away.

The jewel of the Cascades...siiiighhh...

Heya gnomey. :salute: Your all class.

[broncophan]

I'm not too worried...although we do have some issues....but if we lose at Washington....then I will say the broncos have serious issues.....

Regarding Orton.....McD has to let him try to throw down field.....I have heard others say he can't throw downfield.....and I cannot believe that,

How do you become an nfl qb and not be able to throw downfield.??

[Tned]

I agree - but Mike Evans also said that it takes approx. 5 seconds for the QB to set up/throw it downfield, and with the way the OL has been the last two games, it would not work.

Some argue that the lack of downfield throws are allowing defenses to collapse the field, having more defenders near the line, which also allows a more agressive pass rush, as teams don't need to have as much deep protection.

Is the pressure preventing the deep ball or is the lack of the deep ball allowing more pressure on the QB? Who knows.

[Dortoh]

I agree - but Mike Evans also said that it takes approx. 5 seconds for the QB to set up/throw it downfield, and with the way the OL has been the last two games, it would not work.

Exactly why you do it on 1st and 10

[broncofaninfla]

Orton's passes sail when he throws anything over 15 yards. He can't consistently throw the deep ball which means defenses won't ever fear our offense with Orton under center. Add to that, our running scheme doesn't fit our current skill set on offense. Our offense is pretty harmless right now and puts way too much pressure on our defense.

[EastCoastBronco]

I will COME ON when we get a legit QB !!

So he's only legit when we win? Nice work Choppy!

[topscribe]

Orton's passes sail when he throws anything over 15 yards. He can't consistently throw the deep ball which means defenses won't ever fear our offense with Orton under center. Add to that, our running scheme doesn't fit our current skill set on offense. Our offense is pretty harmless right now and puts way too much pressure on our defense.

Go back and look at Orton's first three passes Monday. They were all over 15
yards. Then go back and look at the previous seven games, which you
apparently missed.

Everybody, except for you and a couple others on this board, has seen that
what you are saying is not true.

-----

[topscribe]

Some argue that the lack of downfield throws are allowing defenses to collapse the field, having more defenders near the line, which also allows a more agressive pass rush, as teams don't need to have as much deep protection.

Is the pressure preventing the deep ball or is the lack of the deep ball allowing more pressure on the QB? Who knows.

In his presser just a few minutes ago, McDaniels said the safeties at times were
playing 30-35 yards deep. Same thing at Baltimore: Both Orton and McDaniels
said the safeties were playing deep.

They said they had a couple deep calls planned, but it "wasn't there."

One thing, and only one thing, will draw the safeties up, and soften the pass
rush, to allow deeper passing: an effective running game.

-----

[TXBRONC]

Exactly why you do it on 1st and 10

Spot on self appointed expert. :2thumbs:

[KCL]

Exactly why you do it on 1st and 10

And hope it doesn't end up being 3rd and 10...:eek:

[broncofaninfla]

Go back and look at Orton's first three passes Monday. They were all over 15
yards. Then go back and look at the previous seven games, which you
apparently missed.

Everybody, except for you and a couple others on this board, has seen that
what you are saying is not true.

-----

I see a QB with a limited skill set who deep balls sail and until the plays are called and Orton effectively executes them our offense will suffer.

[KCL]

With all this negative talk about Orton...how the hell did Denver manage to win their first 6 games?

[topscribe]

With all this negative talk about Orton...how the hell did Denver manage to win their first 6 games?

Orton might as well have gone over and sat down and watched the games. The
Broncos didn't even need a QB. The defense did it all.

Those long drives (e.g., 90- and 98-yarders)? That was Champ and B-Dawk.

Next question? :coffee:

-----

[broncofaninfla]

Go back and look at Orton's first three passes Monday. They were all over 15
yards. Then go back and look at the previous seven games, which you
apparently missed.

Everybody, except for you and a couple others on this board, has seen that
what you are saying is not true.

-----

Not true, Ortons first three pass were completed for 13, 14 and 20 yards, ALL were thrown well short of 15 yards with the additional yards coming after the catch. The 4th pass was for 6 yards, dink and dunk...........

[jhildebrand]

Here is why people should remain positive; or for you cynical folks, not be so negative:

We just played two of the best Defenses in the league. Each of those D's have a monster at DL, LB, and S. Most teams we play won't have 1/2 of that.

Second, both teams were in the AFC CG last year and could be again this year.

Third, while everybody is down on Orton let's remember that this team employs a different game plan for each opponent. Not to mention this is still a new staff, a new team, a new philosophy. I am certain we haven't even seen half of the plays McDaniels' offense is capable of.

Fourth, we saw McDaniels take an inexperienced (career journeyman IMHO) Cassell and get hot at this point in the season. I am sure Orton's experience favors him to fare a bit better.

Fifth, we have KC twice and Oakland at home still on the schedule.

Step away from the bandwagon's ledge come into the bar and have yourself a :beer: or :wine: or :shots:

[Ravage!!!]

With all this negative talk about Orton...how the hell did Denver manage to win their first 6 games?

Defense.

Cinci we scored no TDs other than the lucky one.

Cleveland and Oakland...well.

Dallas scored in the first quarter, and didn't score the remaining three... took us until the last drive of the game to finally get in the endzone with a REMARKABLE play by Marshall.

NE was held to zero points in the second half, and again it took us the half to score 10 points to tie the game and go into OT.

SD we had two kick returns for TDs.

Now.. let me say, that I don't blame our offensive woes completely on Orton a single bit. I think he is what he is, and was what we thought he would be..... a simple game manager that does what he can NOT to lose games. But that doesn't help the cause when your team IS down and needs the QB to put some points on the board.

Right now... if the defense gives up points in the second half... we are in trouble.

[topscribe]

Not true, Ortons first three pass were completed for 13, 14 and 20 yards, ALL were thrown well short of 15 yards with the additional yards coming after the catch. The 4th pass was for 6 yards, dink and dunk...........

Oh? So after Royal went to the ground to catch those balls and the defender
touched him, he got up and ran some more?

Hmmm . . . has there been a change in rules? :confused:


I was actually talking about the first three passes in this video:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009110900/2009/REG9/steelers@broncos#tab:watch


The first pass went 31 yards in the air (21 yards down and 27 yards across the field).

The second pass went 25 yards in the air (16 down, 19 across).

The third pass went 27 yards in the air (24 down, 12 over).

On none of those yards did the receiver gain more than 2 yards after the catch.


Oh yes . . . the 6-yarder. Well now, that is proof of a rag arm, isn't it? :rolleyes:

-----

[KCL]

Defense.

Cinci we scored no TDs other than the lucky one.

Cleveland and Oakland...well.

Dallas scored in the first quarter, and didn't score the remaining three... took us until the last drive of the game to finally get in the endzone with a REMARKABLE play by Marshall.

NE was held to zero points in the second half, and again it took us the half to score 10 points to tie the game and go into OT.

SD we had two kick returns for TDs.

Now.. let me say, that I don't blame our offensive woes completely on Orton a single bit. I think he is what he is, and was what we thought he would be..... a simple game manager that does what he can NOT to lose games. But that doesn't help the cause when your team IS down and needs the QB to put some points on the board.

Right now... if the defense gives up points in the second half... we are in trouble.

So in other words...your wins have just been flukes and Denver sucks...:eek:

[jhildebrand]

Defense.

Cinci we scored no TDs other than the lucky one.

Cleveland and Oakland...well.

Dallas scored in the first quarter, and didn't score the remaining three... took us until the last drive of the game to finally get in the endzone with a REMARKABLE play by Marshall.

NE was held to zero points in the second half, and again it took us the half to score 10 points to tie the game and go into OT.

SD we had two kick returns for TDs.

Now.. let me say, that I don't blame our offensive woes completely on Orton a single bit. I think he is what he is, and was what we thought he would be..... a simple game manager that does what he can NOT to lose games. But that doesn't help the cause when your team IS down and needs the QB to put some points on the board.

Right now... if the defense gives up points in the second half... we are in trouble.

Not to mention Matt Light went down allowing Dumervil to get pressure.

[Ravage!!!]

So in other words...your wins have just been flukes and Denver sucks...:eek:

No. I'm saying our defense have won the games... but Orton doesn't play defense.

I'm saying we have won with some a lot of luck. A win is a win, but its not the offense that is winning the games.

You asked how we won games with all the negatives on Orton, and thats how. Defense and luck.

Orton, as of right now in his NFL career, is 3-12 if a team scores a TD and a FG (10 points) in the second half against him. Thats when he was in Chicago, and the two games here (since its only been two games while in Denver that teams have scored 10 points in the second half). So he (orton) is what he is. A guy that will not lose games by being sure not to throw the INT, but won't be a guy that can score in the second half to win you games.

[jhildebrand]

So in other words...your wins have just been flukes and Denver sucks...:eek:

Winning with defense is not a FLUKE. Just ask Trent Dilfer :cool:

[topscribe]

Winning with defense is not a FLUKE. Just ask Trent Dilfer :cool:

Why does Trent Dilfer's name keep popping up, other than a subtle way to denigrate Orton?

-----

[KCL]

No. I'm saying our defense have won the games... but Orton doesn't play defense.

I'm saying we have won with some a lot of luck. A win is a win, but its not the offense that is winning the games.

You asked how we won games with all the negatives on Orton, and thats how. Defense and luck.

So you won the games due to the play of your defense...so do you also think you lost the last 2 because of Orton? I know I have read through some of the threads and it seems that way to me...not you in particular...but in the Steelers game I know your D gave up some big plays.Their WR pretty much were wide open...and they were able to run at will most of the time.

[Ravage!!!]

Why does Trent Dilfer's name keep popping up, other than a subtle way to denigrate Orton?

-----

Because Dilfer is known to ahve won a Super Bowl with Defense, and NOT his superior QBing prowess. Right now taht is what Denver is winning with.... Defense and not our offensive.

[KCL]

I will add that I know the D was on the field for too long in the second half.

[KCL]

Because Dilfer is known to ahve won a Super Bowl with Defense, and NOT his superior QBing prowess. Right now taht is what Denver is winning with.... Defense and not our offensive.

Hey if the Chiefs D were winning it for us...I wouldn't be complaining.

[Ravage!!!]

So you won the games due to the play of your defense...so do you also think you lost the last 2 because of Orton? I know I have read through some of the threads and it seems that way to me...not you in particular...but in the Steelers game I know your D gave up some big plays.Their WR pretty much were wide open...and they were able to run at will most of the time.

Great question. Someone tried to say it was our defense that lost that game against Pittsburgh, despite just holding them to 7 points in the first half. But our offense didn't score a single offensive TD. They scored on the opening drive, and from that point... flopped.

Our defense, in the second half, was on the field nearly 25 minutes. We punted 7 times. Second half drives

4 plays- Punt.
4 plays- Punt.
3 plays- Punt.
1 play INT.
3 Plays Punt.
3 Plays INT.

So is it the defense that couldn't get Pitt off the field, or is it the fact that we still had 6 possessions in the second half can couldn't STAY on the field?? If we didn't score a single TD, offensively, I would have to say its the offense that was/is struggling.

[KCL]

Great question. Someone tried to say it was our defense that lost that game against Pittsburgh, despite just holding them to 7 points in the first half. But our offense didn't score a single offensive TD. They scored on the opening drive, and from that point... flopped.

Our defense, in the second half, was on the field nearly 25 minutes. We punted 7 times. Second half drives

4 plays- Punt.
4 plays- Punt.
3 plays- Punt.
1 play INT.
3 Plays Punt.
3 Plays INT.

So is it the defense that couldn't get Pitt off the field, or is it the fact that we still had 6 possessions in the second half can couldn't STAY on the field?? If we didn't score a single TD, offensively, I would have to say its the offense that was/is struggling.

See post #48

[Ravage!!!]

Hey if the Chiefs D were winning it for us...I wouldn't be complaining.

the "only" complaints some people have is that we know the defense can't continue to win games for us. We just can't keep expecting to shut teams completely out in the second half. We know that we won't continue to have the luck of the deflected passes, Marshall grabbing away INt balls and taking them to the house, and multible ST TDs.

So I think its just a matter of "yeah, thats working now, but what happens when we meet a team that isn't shut out?" Our questions were answered on that.

[KCL]

I hear part of what you're saying Rav...I miss the days of Green/Roaf/Shields/Holmes and Gonzo....Trent had some terrific seasons in Kansas City...even though we didn't go anywhere with it...it sure made for some enjoyable games to watch as a Chiefs fan!

[KCL]

the "only" complaints some people have is that we know the defense can't continue to win games for us. We just can't keep expecting to shut teams completely out in the second half. We know that we won't continue to have the luck of the deflected passes, Marshall grabbing away INt balls and taking them to the house, and multible ST TDs.

So I think its just a matter of "yeah, thats working now, but what happens when we meet a team that isn't shut out?" Our questions were answered on that.

Well if your D is able to make them go 3 and out..then yea it will be up to Orton and the O to take advantage of that...one thing that drives me nuts is when a defense gets a pick or recovers a fumble and the O does nothing with it..:tsk:

[Ravage!!!]

I hear part of what you're saying Rav...I miss the days of Green/Roaf/Shields/Holmes and Gonzo....Trent had some terrific season in Kansas City...even though we didn't go anywhere with it...it sure made for some enjoyable games to watch as a Chiefs fan!

I know what you mean. I should just be happy with the wins, now. But I want our team to be able to compete with the better teams in the NFL. Going into the season I knew/felt we would be a 4-6 win team. But if we were only a 4-6 win team, I would still be 'bothered' by our offense.

I'm just not one that can turn that off simply becuase we got the W. Those problems are still there either way :beer:

[topscribe]

Because Dilfer is known to ahve won a Super Bowl with Defense, and NOT his superior QBing prowess. Right now taht is what Denver is winning with.... Defense and not our offensive.

Right. As I mentioned, forget having a QB out there. We don't need a QB. The
defense has done it allllllllll.

Damn the 90- and 98-yard come-from-behind drives. Damn the 100+ QB rating
the first six games. That's Trent Dilfer out there. He didn't do anything.

Damn the (lack of) running game and breakdowns in pass protection. It's allllllll
on the quarterback. If he can't pass with 300-pounders on top of him, he's
worthless.

In fact, let's cut alllllll of the offensive players, which will bring in more
superstars for defense. They'll take care of it.

I enjoy your posts, Rav. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/laughing-478.gif

-----

[Ravage!!!]

Well if your D is able to make them go 3 and out..then yea it will be up to Orton and the O to take advantage of that...one thing that drives me nuts is when a defense gets a pick or recovers a fumble and the O does nothing with it..:tsk:

I HATE that... or a good k/o or punt return and the offense has to just punt it away.

[KCL]

I HATE that... or a good k/o or punt return and the offense has to just punt it away.

or a lousy punt from the other team that gives you great field position and you come up empty...or throwing a pick or fumbling the ball in the redzone...:laugh:

[Ravage!!!]

Right. As I mentioned, forget having a QB out there. We don't need a QB. The
defense has done it allllllllll.

Damn the 90- and 98-yard come-from-behind drives. Damn the 100+ QB rating
the first six games. That's Trent Dilfer out there. He didn't do anything.

Damn the (lack of) running game and breakdowns in pass protection. It's allllllll
on the quarterback. If he can't pass with 300-pounders on top of him, he's
worthless.

In fact, let's cut alllllll of the offensive players, which will bring in more
superstars for defense. They'll take care of it.

I enjoy your posts, Rav. http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh256/AZDynamics/Smilies/laughing-478.gif

-----

You keep talking about those drives. Great. They were great. But.. it took us a entire half to score 10 points to TIE the game, and we did that because the defense kept THEIR team to ZERO points. If they kicked a single FG in that ENTIRE second half...we lose. Period.

Not to mention, you want to bring up these two drives, but neglect to mention the FIVE punts we had. So why did we 'need' those drives? Because the offense couldn't get any points on the OTHER friggin attempts.

Its ludicrous to suggest that our defense isn't winning these games.

Also.. if you would like to take a moment and actually READ instead of making your smart-allic posts that are entirely meant to goat and bait people into arguing with you, you will see that I don't blame Orton entirely for the offensive woes. I blamed the OFFENSE. But yes... Orton is for sure, a PROBLEM with the offense. :coffee:

[KCL]

Or going to the AFCCG and losing it to the Bills who choke in the SB...AGAIN...:lol:

[Ravage!!!]

or a lousy punt from the other team that gives you great field position and you come up empty...or throwing a pick or fumbling the ball in the redzone...:laugh:

Ugh.. the turnovers in the red-zone are for sure a heart-breaking/hair pulling moment. I think those are the times I come the closest to putting footwear through the television.

[KCL]

Ugh.. the turnovers in the red-zone are for sure a heart-breaking/hair pulling moment. I think those are the times I come the closest to putting footwear through the television.

Oh no shit...get all the way down the field and choke the ball away...:rolleyes:

[jhildebrand]

Why does Trent Dilfer's name keep popping up, other than a subtle way to denigrate Orton?

-----

I brought it up to highlight the point that teams can win a Super Bowl without a Jay Cutler/Brett Favre/John Elway type quarterback.

In no way is it a shot at Orton. How could it be? Dilfer is a Super Bowl winning QB!

[topscribe]

You keep talking about those drives. Great. They were great. But.. it took us a entire half to score 10 points to TIE the game, and we did that because the defense kept THEIR team to ZERO points. If they kicked a single FG in that ENTIRE second half...we lose. Period.

Not to mention, you want to bring up these two drives, but neglect to mention the FIVE punts we had. So why did we 'need' those drives? Because the offense couldn't get any points on the OTHER friggin attempts.

Its ludicrous to suggest that our defense isn't winning these games.

Also.. if you would like to take a moment and actually READ instead of making your smart-allic posts that are entirely meant to goat and bait people into arguing with you, you will see that I don't blame Orton entirely for the offensive woes. I blamed the OFFENSE. But yes... Orton is for sure, a PROBLEM with the offense. :coffee:

My, aren't we sensitive today? :look:

Yes, I can look back to Elway's 47 come-from-behind games and thank the
DEFENSE for not allowing any more points than they did. So I can give the
defense credit in that case, too.

But it took more than those drives for Orton to have a 100+ QB rating during
that stretch. Oops . . . well, I guess maybe the defense did that, too?

Orton did not play a good game Monday. I have already said that elsewhere.
But when the offense cannot muster a running game and the protection
breaks down like it did, that presents a problem for Orton.

My problem with your approach is that you blame some of it on the offense
and some of it on ORTON. Your "analyses" begin and end with Orton.

And when I take issue with that, you take up your accusations of "goating"
and "baiting" "people." Sorry I hurt your feelings. I'll move on to those who
don't mind disagreeing. I don't want to upset you anymore.

-----

[topscribe]

I brought it up to highlight the point that teams can win a Super Bowl without a Jay Cutler/Brett Favre/John Elway type quarterback.

In no way is it a shot at Orton. How could it be? Dilfer is a Super Bowl winning QB!

Thank you. I understand now.

I guess it should have been left you in the first place to respond to me. :nod:

-----

[Ravage!!!]

My, aren't we sensitive today? :look:

Yes, I can look back to Elway's 47 come-from-behind games and thank the
DEFENSE for not allowing any more points than they did. So I can give the
defense credit in that case, too.

But it took more than those drives for Orton to have a 100+ QB rating during
that stretch. Oops . . . well, I guess maybe the defense did that, too?

Orton did not play a good game Monday. I have already said that elsewhere.
But when the offense cannot muster a running game and the protection
breaks down like it did, that presents a problem for Orton.

My problem with your approach is that you blame some of it on the offense
and some of it on ORTON. Your "analyses" begin and end with Orton.

And when I take issue with that, you take up your accusations of "goating"
and "baiting" "people." Sorry I hurt your feelings. I'll move on to those who
don't mind disagreeing. I don't want to upset you anymore.

-----

Thats ok. I don't care if you have issues with it. Have all you want.

Orton is NOT a good QB. He's an average (at best) QB , and one that will make a very solid back-up within the next couple years. So yeah, my 'analysis' complained about our lack of offense, and Orton is the QB of that lame duck offense. (and the QB rating, is the most ridiculous stat in football)

[topscribe]

Thats ok. I don't care if you have issues with it. Have all you want.

Orton is NOT a good QB. He's an average (at best) QB , and one that will make a very solid back-up within the next couple years. So yeah, my 'analysis' complained about our lack of offense, and Orton is the QB of that lame duck offense. (and the QB rating, is the most ridiculous stat in football)

"So it is written. So it shall be done."

-----

[Ravage!!!]

Thats ok. I don't care if you have issues with it. Have all you want.

Orton is NOT a good QB. He's an average (at best) QB , and one that will make a very solid back-up within the next couple years. So yeah, my 'analysis' complained about our lack of offense, and Orton is the QB of that lame duck offense. (and the QB rating, is the most ridiculous stat in football)


"So it is written. So it shall be done."

-----

Mark it down. Keep it in records... I'll stand by this statement. I have no doubts

[jhildebrand]

Orton is NOT a good QB. He's an average (at best) QB , and one that will make a very solid back-up within the next couple years. So yeah, my 'analysis' complained about our lack of offense, and Orton is the QB of that lame duck offense. (and the QB rating, is the most ridiculous stat in football)

Dont you think it is a bit early to proclaim anything so definitive on Orton, Rav. Like you and most everybody else, I find I also have the tendency to make similar strong declarations about Orton.

But I need to remind myself that Orton was 10-5 as a rookie, sat out 06, went 2-1 in 3 games in 07 and won 9 more games in 15 appearances last year. Not to mention he had a change in coordinators. Now he is with a new team and a new system and is only 8 games into it and has a 6-2 record in large part because of the Defense but ultimately didn't lose games for us! His record shows he knows what it takes to win in the NFL even if it isn't always pretty or exciting.

Orton is young. He and Philip Rivers are within 6 months of one another. I think I need to see at the least a full season from him before writing the book on him-especially if McDaniels is the one limiting the offense. So many proclaimed Cassell as the real deal in a simiar amount of time last season and look how that seems to have turned out.

[Ravage!!!]

Dont you think it is a bit early to proclaim anything so definitive on Orton, Rav. Like you and most everybody else, I find I also have the tendency to make similar strong declarations about Orton.

But I need to remind myself that Orton was 10-5 as a rookie, sat out 06, went 2-1 in 3 games in 07 and won 9 more games in 15 appearances last year. Not to mention he had a change in coordinators. Now he is with a new team and a new system and is only 8 games into it and has a 6-2 record in large part because of the Defense but ultimately didn't lose games for us! His record shows he knows what it takes to win in the NFL even if it isn't always pretty or exciting.

Orton is young. He and Philip Rivers are within 6 months of one another. I think I need to see at the least a full season from him before writing the book on him-especially if McDaniels is the one limiting the offense. So many proclaimed Cassell as the real deal in a simiar amount of time last season and look how that seems to have turned out.

No. I think you can see it or you don't. Seems to be a lot of people making the declarations on Cutler around here :laugh:

But seriously, no. I think I've seen enough of Orton's 'skills' to honestly feel that he is just an average athlete FOR the NFL (not saying that making the NFL makes him an average athlete). I've seen nothing from him that would make be believe that he's anything other than simply a very careful QB that will do what he can to NOT throw an INT, even when that means checking down very fast and hitting the easy dump.

He also can not throw on the run. In today's NFL (unless you are a Peyton Manning)...you better be able to throw on the run. Orton misses by a mile when/if he is on the move.

QBs have to have the ABILITY to take a team on his shoulders, and Orton hasn't shown that kind of skill-set at all to me. He's a Brad Johnson type of QB. Can you win with a Brad Johnson? Sure.. he did win one. But its SOOOO much harder to win (especially consistently win) when you have that kind of QB. Orton will make a very good back-up, but even as a starter he's just the kind of QB that is a 'place holder.'

[topscribe]

How Good is Kyle Orton, Anyway?

by Emmett Smith on Nov 9, 2009 9:30 AM MST

The other day, I was ambling about in some stat sites. An article went up
about Orton and I decided to gather some stats and some research together --
the better informed the argument, the more cogent it can become. I also
recognized that I would need a bit of help putting together all the stats, since
I wanted to find the bad as well as the good. I gave a yell to TJ
'lebowskibronco' Johnson, who was kind enough to pitch in on this article. It's
from both of us.

I appreciate the recent post by Broncos Cheer regarding Kyle Orton. I loved
the following discussions, and many posters made excellent points on both
sides of the issue. Several folks were arguing against the long-term position of
Kyle Orton as the QB of the Broncos, and that's a legitimate concern. I'm very
upfront about my disagreement with that position, despite my enjoyment of
the arguments on both sides. However - in my own mind, this issue can be
aided by being subjected to a small amount of logic, a little history and the
value of observing progressions. Kyle Orton's career is an obvious progression
that will shed a lot of light on what his future with the Broncos will be.

Progression - Random House Dictionary has this to say:
pro⋅gres⋅sion
/prəˈgrɛʃən/ Pronunciation [pruh-gresh-uhn], noun

1. the act of progressing; forward or onward movement.
2. a passing successively from on member of a series to the next; succession;
sequence.
3. Mathematics. a succession of quantities in which there is a constant
relation between each member and the one succeeding it.

Orton's career has been a long and continuous progression from mediocrity to
high-quality play and yet many (perhaps most) fans, still view him as an
unknown quantity at best and a known-but-unacceptable quantity at the
worst. It's been my impression, in listening to fan comments here and
elsewhere, that many of the people who still doubt Orton always did - before
there was really any evidence on which to base an opinion. In this article, I
won't speak to that group. It's not because I don't respect them (I
emphatically do), but because against ignorance, as it has been said, the
gods themselves contend in vain. I have found that you cannot change
anyone's mind if they have a prejudice. For the vast majority, who tend to
open minds, I'd like to add some facts that seem to Bear on the situation.

(The rest of the article can be accessed on the next page. (http://www.milehighreport.com/2009/11/9/1121962/how-good-is-kyle-orton-anyway#storyjump))

Retrieved from MileHighReport.com (http://www.milehighreport.com/)."
"By The Fans, For The Fans....Your Source For Denver Broncos News and Comment"

-----

[jhildebrand]

No. I think you can see it or you don't. Seems to be a lot of people making the declarations on Cutler around here :laugh:

But seriously, no. I think I've seen enough of Orton's 'skills' to honestly feel that he is just an average athlete FOR the NFL (not saying that making the NFL makes him an average athlete). I've seen nothing from him that would make be believe that he's anything other than simply a very careful QB that will do what he can to NOT throw an INT, even when that means checking down very fast and hitting the easy dump.

Would your opinion change if McDaniels came out and said that Orton and the offense have only utilized 40% of the playbook? I am not saying that is the case, just a hypothetical question.



He also can not throw on the run. In today's NFL (unless you are a Peyton Manning)...you better be able to throw on the run. Orton misses by a mile when/if he is on the move.

QBs have to have the ABILITY to take a team on his shoulders, and Orton hasn't shown that kind of skill-set at all to me. He's a Brad Johnson type of QB. Can you win with a Brad Johnson? Sure.. he did win one. But its SOOOO much harder to win (especially consistently win) when you have that kind of QB. Orton will make a very good back-up, but even as a starter he's just the kind of QB that is a 'place holder.'

I saw Orton make some pretty nice plays and throws in the Chicago Atlanta game last year. I remember one nice deep throw to go ahead late in the game.

Do you not feel Orton put the team on his shoulders in either the Dallas or New England game? He did have two 90+ yard drives in the Pats game.

Also, I know the QB position is now a polarizing issue around here. It seems most the pro cutler camp are anti orton. Meh. Not sure you can do about it but I will say Cutler never did show he could take a team on his shoulders and make it happen and he has twice the tools Orton does.

[frenchfan]

During the first drive (but not much after that), Orton had that kind of time.
Personally, I would have done it the first play of the game. Even if it wasn't
competed, it might have served notice . . .

(But then, maybe I'm all wet.) :whoknows:

-----I do agree Tops...

The problem is that I don't know if Orton can or not throw it deep : we never call those kind of plays... :rolleyes:

Damn, I wish we throw it deep on the 1st play of the game against Skins.
I watched the Steelers game and I was thinking why don't we try it? Especially at the end of the game... It was over anyway, why don't try something? No... we tried a WR screen on 3rd and 10... :tsk:
Yeah, Orton wasn't in a good day... But I'd have love to see some deep trhows attempt... Just for the fun... :D

This is the only critisism I have about McD right now : too conservative and predictable play calling on O...
Our D let us in the game for a while, but our O killed us on monday...

Losing against the 2 bests D of the league isn't a shame... But our O was a concern during this 2 games : bad play calling, bad execution, bad O-Line... yeah, Orton isn't made to throw on the move...

[topscribe]

I do agree Tops...

The problem is that I don't know if Orton can or not throw it deep : we never call those kind of plays... :rolleyes:

Damn, I wish we throw it deep on the 1st play of the game against Skins.
I watched the Steelers game and I was thinking why don't we try it? Especially at the end of the game... It was over anyway, why don't try something? No... we tried a WR screen on 3rd and 10... :tsk:
Yeah, Orton wasn't in a good day... But I'd have love to see some deep trhows attempt... Just for the fun... :D

This is the only critisism I have about McD right now : too conservative and predictable play calling on O...
Our D let us in the game for a while, but our O killed us on monday...

Losing against the 2 bests D of the league isn't a shame... But our O was a concern during this 2 games : bad play calling, bad execution, bad O-Line... yeah, Orton isn't made to throw on the move...

Yes, he can throw it deep. He threw it 74 yards as a high school senior, and
he put it 65 yards in the air in that Hail Mary pass against New England, for
instance . . .

-----

[frenchfan]

Yes, he can throw it deep. He threw it 74 yards as a high school senior, and
he put it 65 yards in the air in that Hail Mary pass against New England, for
instance . . .

-----Yeah... That's why I don't specifically put the blame on him but on the play calling...

Damn... being down by 11 with less than 3 minutes to play and we tried a WR screen??? :shocked: I mean... WTF ???
Don't care if we were intercepted, but at least, try something...

I think Kyle has a decent arm... I just haven't seen him throwing deep yet (except the hail mary against the Pats indeed).

Let's see what we'll do vs the Skins ;)

[broncofaninfla]

I really think Mcd isn't calling the deep balls because Orton just can't safely deliver them. His mid to deep passes sail on him, he just doesn't seem accurate throwing anything over 15 yards.

[frenchfan]

I really think Mcd isn't calling the deep balls because Orton just can't safely deliver them. His mid to deep passes sail on him, he just doesn't seem accurate throwing anything over 15 yards.May be that's true... May be not...
Fact is I haven't seen him trying... So I can't judge... I would like to see it rather than making speculations... that's all...

If he can't, then it will be a huge problem for our OL... We couldn't play against good D such as Steelers or Ravens for sure...

:beer:

[topscribe]

I really think Mcd isn't calling the deep balls because Orton just can't safely deliver them. His mid to deep passes sail on him, he just doesn't seem accurate throwing anything over 15 yards.

See, that's what I'm talking about. I have responded to you specifically with
examples of what I discovered of Orton throughout his career. Time after time,
Orton has delivered lasers of 20-30 yards. He has already demonstrated that in
games that I otherwise would assume you have seen. I have provided McDaniels'
and Orton's explanations.

Here, I'll try again. See the first three passes:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009110900/2009/REG9/steelers@broncos#tab:watch

The first pass went 31 yards in the air (21 yards down and 27 yards across the field).

The second pass went 25 yards in the air (16 down, 19 across).

The third pass went 27 yards in the air (24 down, 12 over).


Next, the Ravens game:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009110100/2009/REG8/broncos@ravens#tab:watch

At 1:38, The pass to Marshall that resulted in an interference call went 32
yards in the air, right on the money.

At 00:21, The pass went 27 yards in the air.

At 00:34, 16 yards . . . on the run

At 00.42, 22 yards

At 00. 54, this was the TD pass to Scheffler that went about 37 yards in the air


Now the NE game:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009101110/2009/REG5/patriots@broncos#tab:watch

At 00:50, 21.5 yards in the air, a laser

At 1:10, 23 yards

At 3:30, 22.5 yards in the air, on the run


Finally, in the Cincinnati game:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009091303/2009/REG1/broncos@bengals#tab:watch

At 00:16, this is the pass Marshall dropped. It went 51 yards, on the money.


Of course, there's that Hail Mary pass that went 65 yards in the air.


As a bonus, here is a small sample of what I saw of Orton last year:

eQS6-v75qms


Now, all those who claim Orton cannot pass beyond 15 yards have offered is
their saying that he can't pass beyond 15 yards. No documentation: just their
proclamations.

This belief is the product of one of 3 kinds of minds: uninformed, closed, or dull.

-----

[claymore]

See, that's what I'm talking about. I have responded to you specifically with
examples of what I discovered of Orton throughout his career. Time after time,
Orton has delivered lasers of 20-30 yards. He has already demonstrated that in
games that I otherwise would assume you have seen. I have provided McDaniels'
and Orton's explanations.

Here, I'll try again. See the first three passes:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009110900/2009/REG9/steelers@broncos#tab:watch

The first pass went 31 yards in the air (21 yards down and 27 yards across the field).

The second pass went 25 yards in the air (16 down, 19 across).

The third pass went 27 yards in the air (24 down, 12 over).


Next, the Ravens game:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009110100/2009/REG8/broncos@ravens#tab:watch

At 1:38, The pass to Marshall that resulted in an interference call went 32
yards in the air, right on the money.

At 00:21, The pass went 27 yards in the air.

At 00:34, 16 yards . . . on the run

At 00.42, 22 yards

At 00. 54, this was the TD pass to Scheffler that went about 37 yards in the air


Now the NE game:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009101110/2009/REG5/patriots@broncos#tab:watch

At 00:50, 21.5 yards in the air, a laser

At 1:10, 23 yards

At 3:30, 22.5 yards in the air, on the run


Finally, in the Cincinnati game:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009091303/2009/REG1/broncos@bengals#tab:watch

At 00:16, this is the pass Marshall dropped. It went 51 yards, on the money.


Of course, there's that Hail Mary pass that went 65 yards in the air.


As a bonus, here is a small sample of what I saw of Orton last year:

eQS6-v75qms


Now, all those who claim Orton cannot pass beyond 15 yards have offered is
their saying that he can't pass beyond 15 yards. No documentation: just their
proclamations.

This belief is the product of one of 3 kinds of minds: uninformed, closed, or dull.

-----

Orton isnt even middle of the pack QB in a pass first system. he is 18th in the NFL (tied with Cambell) for passes longer than 20 yards (which doesnt factor in YAC).

Spin it how you want but Orton isnt good. He is a place holder.

[topscribe]

Orton isnt even middle of the pack QB in a pass first system. he is 18th in the NFL (tied with Cambell) for passes longer than 20 yards (which doesnt factor in YAC).

Spin it how you want but Orton isnt good. He is a place holder.

Spin? All I did was to provide some examples. That is spin?

Shit, when has providing facts become "spin"? If I tried to twist the facts, that
would be "spin." All I did was to present them.

I provide video proof, and you say, "oh, that's just spin." Do you have a problem
with vocabulary?

-----

[broncofaninfla]

See, that's what I'm talking about. I have responded to you specifically with
examples of what I discovered of Orton throughout his career. Time after time,
Orton has delivered lasers of 20-30 yards. He has already demonstrated that in
games that I otherwise would assume you have seen. I have provided McDaniels'
and Orton's explanations.

Here, I'll try again. See the first three passes:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009110900/2009/REG9/steelers@broncos#tab:watch

The first pass went 31 yards in the air (21 yards down and 27 yards across the field).

The second pass went 25 yards in the air (16 down, 19 across).

The third pass went 27 yards in the air (24 down, 12 over).


Next, the Ravens game:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009110100/2009/REG8/broncos@ravens#tab:watch

At 1:38, The pass to Marshall that resulted in an interference call went 32
yards in the air, right on the money.

At 00:21, The pass went 27 yards in the air.

At 00:34, 16 yards . . . on the run

At 00.42, 22 yards

At 00. 54, this was the TD pass to Scheffler that went about 37 yards in the air


Now the NE game:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009101110/2009/REG5/patriots@broncos#tab:watch

At 00:50, 21.5 yards in the air, a laser

At 1:10, 23 yards

At 3:30, 22.5 yards in the air, on the run


Finally, in the Cincinnati game:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009091303/2009/REG1/broncos@bengals#tab:watch

At 00:16, this is the pass Marshall dropped. It went 51 yards, on the money.


Of course, there's that Hail Mary pass that went 65 yards in the air.


As a bonus, here is a small sample of what I saw of Orton last year:

eQS6-v75qms


Now, all those who claim Orton cannot pass beyond 15 yards have offered is
their saying that he can't pass beyond 15 yards. No documentation: just their
proclamations.

This belief is the product of one of 3 kinds of minds: uninformed, closed, or dull.

-----

Unfortunatly I can't view those here but will later on this evening on my personal PC. I will say what I've seen from Orton as a Bronco is his deeper balls sail. Some have been on the money others not. I've said a dozen times before I WANT TO EAT CROW ON ORTON but to date I am not very impressed. But with that being said, I'm not very impressed with this offense as a whole. Our current scheme is too conservative and not tailored to our current skill set. Mcd's stubborness to play it his way instaed of what we are built to do has resulted in a very stale, limited and predictable offense.

[claymore]

Unfortunatly I can't view those here but will later on this evening on my personal PC. I will say what I've seen from Orton as a Bronco is his deeper balls sail. Some have been on the money others not. I've said a dozen times before I WANT TO EAT CROW ON ORTON but to date I am not very impressed. But with that being said, I'm not very impressed with this offense as a whole. Our current scheme is too conservative and not tailored to our current skill set. Mcd's stubborness to play it his way instaed of what we are built to do has resulted in a very stale, limited and predictable offense.

I keep hoping its by design and he has games we must win and he is saving something. I dont think thats the case though.

[TXBRONC]

Orton isnt even middle of the pack QB in a pass first system. he is 18th in the NFL (tied with Cambell) for passes longer than 20 yards (which doesnt factor in YAC).

Spin it how you want but Orton isnt good. He is a place holder.

I think Tned said it best that Orton is a solid quarterback for this system but throwing the ball down the field isn't his strength. It's easy to find example of completing a pass of more 30 yards but that doesn't he's consistent about it.

[topscribe]

Unfortunatly I can't view those here but will later on this evening on my personal PC. I will say what I've seen from Orton as a Bronco is his deeper balls sail. Some have been on the money others not. I've said a dozen times before I WANT TO EAT CROW ON ORTON but to date I am not very impressed. But with that being said, I'm not very impressed with this offense as a whole. Our current scheme is too conservative and not tailored to our current skill set. Mcd's stubborness to play it his way instaed of what we are built to do has resulted in a very stale, limited and predictable offense.

Well, I agree with you on the offense. I will admit that Orton certainly has to
play better than he did Monday night. But they also need to shore up their pass
protection, and they need dramatically to improve their running game. Until they
do that, I fear for the future. I really do.

Their taking Hamilton out of the starting job indicates they are taking measures
(although I don't know how good Hochstein is going to be). I hope so because
something has got to be done with the juggernaut teams the Broncos still
have to face . . .

-----

[topscribe]

I think Tned said it best that Orton is a solid quarterback for this system but throwing the ball down the field isn't his strength. It's easy to find example of completing a pass of more 30 yards but that doesn't he's consistent about it.

Your right, although I provided more than a couple examples. But one has to
research it more deeply, see what he has done over his entire career.

Such as I have done . . . :coffee:


P.S. You really admire Tned, don't you?


-----

[jhildebrand]

McDaniles and Orton said after the game that they had some long passes ready to be called but Pittsburgh had Safeties 35 yards deep. It just wasn't there.

The only way to change that is to get an effective and dangerous ground game.

Running 14 times against the Steelers was a recipe for disaster. The team that stuck to the run won!

[topscribe]

Yeah you did a lot deep research. :lol:

By the way who is that has Tned's name in their signature?

Yes, I did do a lot of deep research. Sometimes seems like wasted time on this
board . . . :tsk:

And yes, I do admire Tned, a lot, for what he has done here. But I don't
particularly consider him an authority on football matters, a least any more than
several other members here . . .

-----

[TXBRONC]

McDaniles and Orton said after the game that they had some long passes ready to be called but Pittsburgh had Safeties 35 yards deep. It just wasn't there.

The only way to change that is to get an effective and dangerous ground game.

Running 14 times against the Steelers was a recipe for disaster. The team that stuck to the run won!

It couldn't have been for the entire game the safeties were 35 yards off the ball. All three of Ortons picks came within 10 to 15 yards of the line of scrimage.

http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_13767542

I don't have the coach's game film, but it didn't look to me as if Polamalu and Carter were playing 35 yards off the line of scrimmage very often. In fact, we can document where they were the three times they intercepted Orton:

• In the second quarter, the line of scrimmage was the Broncos' 42-yard line. Carter intercepted Orton's pass at the Broncos' 48.

• In the fourth quarter, the line of scrimmage was the Broncos' 9. Polamalu intercepted at the Broncos' 23.

• Later in the fourth, the line of scrimmage was the Broncos' 37. Carter intercepted at the Broncos' 45.

That's three interceptions by safeties 6, 14 and 8 yards from the line of scrimmage. So just how many shots at a deep throw did McDaniels give Orton?

[topscribe]

It couldn't have been for the entire game the safeties were 35 yards off the ball. All three of Ortons picks came within 10 to 15 yards of the line of scrimage.

http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_13767542

I don't have the coach's game film, but it didn't look to me as if Polamalu and Carter were playing 35 yards off the line of scrimmage very often. In fact, we can document where they were the three times they intercepted Orton:

• In the second quarter, the line of scrimmage was the Broncos' 42-yard line. Carter intercepted Orton's pass at the Broncos' 48.

• In the fourth quarter, the line of scrimmage was the Broncos' 9. Polamalu intercepted at the Broncos' 23.

• Later in the fourth, the line of scrimmage was the Broncos' 37. Carter intercepted at the Broncos' 45.

That's three interceptions by safeties 6, 14 and 8 yards from the line of scrimmage. So just how many shots at a deep throw did McDaniels give Orton?

You probably need to take that up with McDaniels and Orton.

Jhildebrand was only repeating what they had said . . .

-----

[Dortoh]

Orton is > Jake Plummer only in that he can read both sides of the field.........well up to 8 yards anyway.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

It couldn't have been for the entire game the safeties were 35 yards off the ball. All three of Ortons picks came within 10 to 15 yards of the line of scrimage.

http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_13767542

I don't have the coach's game film, but it didn't look to me as if Polamalu and Carter were playing 35 yards off the line of scrimmage very often. In fact, we can document where they were the three times they intercepted Orton:

• In the second quarter, the line of scrimmage was the Broncos' 42-yard line. Carter intercepted Orton's pass at the Broncos' 48.

• In the fourth quarter, the line of scrimmage was the Broncos' 9. Polamalu intercepted at the Broncos' 23.

• Later in the fourth, the line of scrimmage was the Broncos' 37. Carter intercepted at the Broncos' 45.

That's three interceptions by safeties 6, 14 and 8 yards from the line of scrimmage. So just how many shots at a deep throw did McDaniels give Orton?

Listen to what Orton said in his press conference yesterday. He stated that the downfield pass was called a couple of times, but at those particular times, they did not get the defensive look they were hoping for.

[Dortoh]

In his presser just a few minutes ago, McDaniels said the safeties at times were
playing 30-35 yards deep. Same thing at Baltimore: Both Orton and McDaniels
said the safeties were playing deep.

They said they had a couple deep calls planned, but it "wasn't there."

One thing, and only one thing, will draw the safeties up, and soften the pass
rush, to allow deeper passing: an effective running game.

-----


http://scottthong.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/iraqiinformationminister.jpg

[TXBRONC]

Listen to what Orton said in his press conference yesterday. He stated that the downfield pass was called a couple of times, but at those particular times, they did not get the defensive look they were hoping for.

Take it up Krieger this it what he observed from being at the game. All that excerpt is telling us that the safeties were not 35 yards off ball on every play.

[topscribe]

Take it up Krieger this it what he observed from being at the game. All that excerpt is telling us that the safeties were not 35 yards off ball on every play.

That's what Carol said. That's what McDaniels and Orton said.

So we're all in agreement. What's the controversy here? :confused:

-----

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Take it up Krieger this it what he observed from being at the game. All that excerpt is telling us that the safeties were not 35 yards off ball on every play.

Apparently that is how Kreiger viewed it, but both Coach McD and Kyle explained it differently, and I feel they know more about the X's and O's than someone in the press.

[TXBRONC]

Apparently that is how Kreiger viewed it, but both Coach McD and Kyle explained it differently, and I feel they know more about the X's and O's than someone in the press.

McDaniels and Orton didn't claim that the safties was lined up 35 yards off every play.

[jhildebrand]

It couldn't have been for the entire game the safeties were 35 yards off the ball. All three of Ortons picks came within 10 to 15 yards of the line of scrimage.?

I never implied that they were deep all game. I simply repeated what Orton and McDaniels said.

This team has gone deep this year. You have to make the call when the opportunity is there.

Unless you think they should audible to a deep play at will?

One pick to Moreno was due in part to Moreno running into the back judge. IMHO Orton shouldn't have thrown the ball in the first place but the collision did play a role in the INT.

[TXBRONC]

I never implied that they were deep all game. I simply repeated what Orton and McDaniels said.

This team has gone deep this year. You have to make the call when the opportunity is there.

Unless you think they should audible to a deep play at will?

One pick to Moreno was due in part to Moreno running into the back judge. IMHO Orton shouldn't have thrown the ball in the first place but the collision did play a role in the INT.

I'm not saying you are implying that were deep the entire game not am I suggesting that we audible to a deep play at will.

Well maybe they're missing to many opportunities right now?

[topscribe]

I never implied that they were deep all game. I simply repeated what Orton and McDaniels said.

This team has gone deep this year. You have to make the call when the opportunity is there.

Unless you think they should audible to a deep play at will?

One pick to Moreno was due in part to Moreno running into the back judge. IMHO Orton shouldn't have thrown the ball in the first place but the collision did play a role in the INT.

I believe Ravage was right when he said elsewhere that McDaniels was probably
exaggerating for effect. But that only emphasized that the safeties were very
deep on the plays in question.

Regarding the intercepted pass meant for Moreno, I don't think Moreno
actually ran into the judge, but it looks as if he hesitated so not to run into
him. Orton couldn't do anything about it because he was throwing for where
he thought Moreno was going to be. Moreno just needs to understand the
referee is part of the field and to keep running, even if it means running into
the ref.

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[Ravage!!!]

Teams and QBs go deep all the time... at will... when they get single coverage on an outside reciever. Thats why QBs like to see a blitz, because they know that isolates a WR with one on one coverage..and they go deep with it.

[jhildebrand]

I believe Ravage was right when he said elsewhere that McDaniels was probably
exaggerating for effect. But that only emphasized that the safeties were very
deep on the plays in question.

Regarding the intercepted pass meant for Moreno, I don't think Moreno
actually ran into the judge, but it looks as if he hesitated so not to run into
him. Orton couldn't do anything about it because he was throwing for where
he thought Moreno was going to be. Moreno just needs to understand the
referee is part of the field and to keep running, even if it means running into
the ref.

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Moreno ran into the judge. There definitely was contact.

[topscribe]

Moreno ran into the judge. There definitely was contact.

Either way, that would explain it . . .

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[Lonestar]

Either way, that would explain it . . .

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you know for some there is "no excuse for failure"..

However, to the logical "there are reasons for it"..

[frenchfan]

I believe Ravage was right when he said elsewhere that McDaniels was probably
exaggerating for effect. But that only emphasized that the safeties were very
deep on the plays in question.

Regarding the intercepted pass meant for Moreno, I don't think Moreno
actually ran into the judge, but it looks as if he hesitated so not to run into
him. Orton couldn't do anything about it because he was throwing for where
he thought Moreno was going to be. Moreno just needs to understand the
referee is part of the field and to keep running, even if it means running into
the ref.

-----Moreno also blow awfully missed a block allowing Pitt's to quickly put pressure on Orton... The kid has things to learn for sure... That's NFL...
I think he is talented and he'll succeed, but he's a work in progress for now...

BTW I was very disappointed by our running game these last 2 games... I know we faced 2 great D, but that's no real excuse... Good O can find a way to run on good D (even if it's obviously more difficult).

Well... hope we'll rebound against the Skins or it will become a huge concern IMO... The pb is that Skins has a good D too...

[TXBRONC]

Moreno also blow awfully missed a block allowing Pitt's to quickly put pressure on Orton... The kid has things to learn for sure... That's NFL...
I think he is talented and he'll succeed, but he's a work in progress for now...

BTW I was very disappointed by our running game these last 2 games... I know we faced 2 great D, but that's no real excuse... Good O can find a way to run on good D (even if it's obviously more difficult).

Well... hope we'll rebound against the Skins or it will become a huge concern IMO... The pb is that Skins has a good D too...

Not to be dismissive of the Redskins defense but they did play five straight win less teams and could only muster two wins. So while the defense has played well they must be having a lot of problems in every other area.

[topscribe]

you know for some there is "no excuse for failure"..

However, to the logical "there are reasons for it"..

I'm serving notice that I'm stealing this from you . . .

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