If I am Josh McDaniels this is what I have to do

[DenverDude88]

We have a few problems here

We have to cut Hamburger- His punting is awful, there is a reason no other team has signed him!

Ben Hamilton- He also has to go is a huge liability.

Our running game- we use to be a run first team. What happened

One of the biggest decisions that needs to be done is Bench Kyle Orton! This is a must. If he wants to give the broncos the best chance of winning this year this needs to be done. We need to put Brandster or Sims in. At least they can throw the ball down the field and make plays. I do not care if they throw a couple interceptions as long as they stretch the field, it is better then orton not making any plays and throwing interceptions. This needs to be done because our secondary is not getting any younger.

I think if the broncos make these moves we will be in much better shape!
Agree or Disagree?

[Dirk]

I too think we need to stretch the field. If not, then defenses will continue to bring the pressure because there is no threat not to.

But, remember...we are 6-2. It's not like we are 2-6. We lost to 2 of the most physical teams in the league.

Orton's interceptions (one on a route being disrupted by the umpire) were caused by pressure. The offensive line at this point is the biggest and most glaring issue.

Bench Orton? I don't think so at this point. Remember, this is a year where we were supposed to suck. No one thought they would be where they are today.

Did they bench Warner after 5 turnovers? No.

If McD will open up the offense and make the defense stay honest, it will go a long ways.

[Dirk]

Just to clarify...I'm not saying Orton is a Warner. Just sayin

[Dzone]

Orton is every bit as bad as advertised. The offensive line is highly overrated.
Im sure Washington is licking thier chops at getting to play Denver this week.:D

[scottieboy561]

if i had to pick any 2 loses this season it would be these two.

Baltimore is a GOOD team that came off there bye we had to expect there defense to show up sooner rather than later. the thing that really killed us in that game was the kickoff in the 3rd thought that really knocked us down

Pittsburgh- come on there the deffending champs for a reason. they ran the ball well and dont have many major holes anywhere on there team except there o line which we did get pressure on

we just need to run the ball better that will open up ortons short game

[claymore]

if i had to pick any 2 loses this season it would be these two.

Baltimore is a GOOD team that came off there bye we had to expect there defense to show up sooner rather than later. the thing that really killed us in that game was the kickoff in the 3rd thought that really knocked us down

Pittsburgh- come on there the deffending champs for a reason. they ran the ball well and dont have many major holes anywhere on there team except there o line which we did get pressure on

we just need to run the ball better that will open up ortons short game
LMAO! Our line is not built for what McDaniels is trying to make it do. We cannot run on good defenses.

[TXBRONC]

We have a few problems here

We have to cut Hamburger- His punting is awful, there is a reason no other team has signed him!

Ben Hamilton- He also has to go is a huge liability.

Our running game- we use to be a run first team. What happened

One of the biggest decisions that needs to be done is Bench Kyle Orton! This is a must. If he wants to give the broncos the best chance of winning this year this needs to be done. We need to put Brandster or Sims in. At least they can throw the ball down the field and make plays. I do not care if they throw a couple interceptions as long as they stretch the field, it is better then orton not making any plays and throwing interceptions. This needs to be done because our secondary is not getting any younger.

I think if the broncos make these moves we will be in much better shape!
Agree or Disagree?

If Berger stays or if he go I really don't care because punters are a dime a dozen.

Replacing Kyle Orton right now would be a mistake. I like Brandstater's measurables but there isn't any evidence that he's ready to challenge. Not every 6th round draft picks turns out to be Tom Brady. That being said Brandstater may not even develop starting quarterback. Orton may not be the long term answer but if McDaniels replaces him now he would be inviting disaster.

In short I could not disagree with you more.

[EastCoastBronco]

Grab hold of my hand and take a walk with me. Not a long walk. Just back to the end of September...We had just handed the Raiders a loss in their own back yard and were looking down the barrel of a nasty 5 game stretch. Remember? Let me refresh your memories. Dallas (Quality team #1), New England (Quality team #2), San Diego (Quality team...eh, not so much), Baltimore (Quality Team #3), and last but not least Pittsburgh (Defending Super Bowl Champs).
Now, no lying allowed, how many of us thought that we would be coming out of that hellish stretch of games at 5-0? Be honest now. Yeah...That's what I thought. At best I was hoping that we'd come out of it at 3-2. Guess what? That's what we did.
Here's my theory on why everyone is starting to panic. Why our current version of 3-2 in that stretch is freaking people out. If we had dropped one to Dallas, then beat New England, San Diego, then dropped one to Baltimore and beat Pitt last night not one person on these boards would be in "Titanic" mode right now. Why not? We'd still be 3-2 in that same stretch. But because we dropped 2 in a row, the flares have started going up.
Back to reality... Any way you slice it, dice it, slap chop it, we came out of those 5 games as good as we could have hoped. Better, actually, given the stinking pile of mediocrity we were at seasons end last year. After a stretch of mediocrity like this team has suffered through, when you get to 6-0, luckily or not, peoples expectations start heading into unrealistic territory. We start getting visions of Lombardi trophies and trips to Disneyland instead of simply focusing on the week to week. Let's not kid ourselves. We are definitely in a rebuilding phase. Our defence has made a turnaround that NONE of us saw coming and has played better than anyone of could have hoped for. The offence (and our punter) is definitely our weak link. The punter needs to go. The offence will get better and their confidence will grow.
Washington will be a good test. It's a game that last year we would have likely lost because we used to suck at preparing for teams that were inferior to us. We don't anymore. Of all the strides this team has made this year, the one that I am happiest with is that we are no longer mediocre.
The first half of the seaon is over and we're 6-2. That's a damn good start. We are a good team. Not a Superbowl contender yet but we are getting there.
Bring on the second half of the season...one game at a time...

[Ravage!!!]

I'm pretty sure everyone knows my stand on Orton. That being said, there is no reason to sit him and start anyone else at this juncture. Orton has proved to be EXACTLY what was said about him....a short pass 'game manager' to the extreme. No wonder the guy doesn't throw any INTs... jeez. But there is absolutely NO signs to believe that our 6th round pick is anything more than a 6th round pick flyer. You don't take a 6-2 team and hand it over to some unknown dude. That would be about as dumb as trading away a quality player at that position.

[Dortoh]

I'm pretty sure everyone knows my stand on Orton. That being said, there is no reason to sit him and start anyone else at this juncture. Orton has proved to be EXACTLY what was said about him....a short pass 'game manager' to the extreme. No wonder the guy doesn't throw any INTs... jeez. But there is absolutely NO signs to believe that our 6th round pick is anything more than a 6th round pick flyer. You don't take a 6-2 team and hand it over to some unknown dude. That would be about as dumb as trading away a quality player at that position.

Agreed Orton sucks period but bench him and McD loses the lockerroom. For whatever reason the players like Orton. Not to mention there is really nothing behind him on the bench.

Ben needs to find a seat on the bench he has been a great Bronco but his time has passed.

The ratturds and steelers are both excellent teams who are simply better then us right now.

We still have a good shot at making the playoffs and that IMO is a huge accomplishment for this team in year 1 of the McD era.

If its 3rd and more then 5 NEVER again call a mother ******* bubble screen period end of story. :mad:

[Watchthemiddle]

This thread is a typical knee jerk reaction.

WE ARE FREAKIN 6-2. You don't just start benching players when that happens. If so, see 2006 Broncos season. We started off fast, jumped out to a 7-2 season, then had a stretch of two bad games, sat Plummer and down went the season to finish 2-3 behind CUtler and bounced from any kind of playoffs.

We didn't lose to KC or the Browns, we lost to Pitt and B-more. That sucks, but it's not the end of the world. We thought we had a good defense, but after these last two weeks we have seen what a GREAT defense is. We thought our O-line was the best in the league, but after these past two weeks, I am starting to think differently.

I'll admit Orton is not going to give you flash and glitz and glamour, but he will win you games. At this point, we need a game manager because after what I saw last night on defense, we need to keep them off the field until they can fix their problem. Offense didn't help either.

[claymore]

This thread is a typical knee jerk reaction.

WE ARE FREAKIN 6-2. You don't just start benching players when that happens. If so, see 2006 Broncos season. We started off fast, jumped out to a 7-2 season, then had a stretch of two bad games, sat Plummer and down went the season to finish 2-3 behind CUtler and bounced from any kind of playoffs.

We didn't lose to KC or the Browns, we lost to Pitt and B-more. That sucks, but it's not the end of the world. We thought we had a good defense, but after these last two weeks we have seen what a GREAT defense is. We thought our O-line was the best in the league, but after these past two weeks, I am starting to think differently.

I'll admit Orton is not going to give you flash and glitz and glamour, but he will win you games. At this point, we need a game manager because after what I saw last night on defense, we need to keep them off the field until they can fix their problem. Offense didn't help either.

If Orton could keep the offense on the field I would agree with you. I dont know if it is Orton, or the system / playcalling, but its not working.

[honz]

http://www.k-state.edu/thetaxi/pictures/brothers/jumping_bridge.jpg

[Watchthemiddle]

If Orton could keep the offense on the field I would agree with you. I dont know if it is Orton, or the system / playcalling, but its not working.

I think it's a combination. How dominate was our offense on that first drive and even the first quarter? ORton was on fire, something like 13/16 for 130 yards. The int for a td killed us, but we were moving the ball. THen it's like the playcalling got dumb. It's almost like we are now being out coached on both sides of the ball. Where is the adjustments we were all so proud of during the first 6 games? Offensively and defensively. Where is the wild horses? Sheffler only had one catch if I remember correctly. Royal and Marshall tore it up, but that's about it. WHere is the wheel route to a RB hooked up with an LB?

[JONtheBRONCO]

8 more games left.

[UnderArmour]

Kyle Orton needs to start throwing it deep and hoping for pass interference calls like he did with Chicago.

[weazel]

If I am Josh this is what I have to do...

start scouting college players, we need some players in the draft...

We need some big guards,
we need a young QB to groom,
we need a true NT

[Zweems56]

We have a few problems here

We have to cut Hamburger- His punting is awful, there is a reason no other team has signed him!

Ben Hamilton- He also has to go is a huge liability.

Our running game- we use to be a run first team. What happened

One of the biggest decisions that needs to be done is Bench Kyle Orton! This is a must. If he wants to give the broncos the best chance of winning this year this needs to be done. We need to put Brandster or Sims in. At least they can throw the ball down the field and make plays. I do not care if they throw a couple interceptions as long as they stretch the field, it is better then orton not making any plays and throwing interceptions. This needs to be done because our secondary is not getting any younger.

I think if the broncos make these moves we will be in much better shape!
Agree or Disagree?

I fully understand any repercussions that may come with this statement, but..... You must be as high as a ******* kite. Dude is playing lights out for 6 straight games, has a Hiccup, and now we have to bench him?

[topscribe]

LMAO! Our line is not built for what McDaniels is trying to make it do. We cannot run on good defenses.

The personnel is suited for zone blocking, and McD is trying to make a gap-
blocking line out of it. Until they get more beef especially at LG and center, they
are going to struggle at gap-blocking, IMO. I like most of what McD has done,
but he has tried to fix what wasn't broken in that area, IMO.

-----

[weazel]

The personnel is suited for zone blocking, and McD is trying to make a gap-
blocking line out of it. Until they get more beef especially at LG and center, they
are going to struggle at gap-blocking, IMO. I like most of what McD has done,
but he has tried to fix what wasn't broken in that area, IMO.

-----

I had this same conversation with by buddies watching the game last night. I totally agree.

[titan]

I really like McDaniels and the changes he's brought to the Broncos but nobody is perfect. I'm starting to see one of his flaws - he's too impulsive. Examples:

Trades Cutler when there are communication problems. Yes McD wasn't the only one involved in this decision, but cooler heads would have worked harder at a solution.

Sees a player he likes in the draft and does anything to get him, possibly wasting draft picks. The trades to get Richard Quinn and Alphonso Smith, for example.

Brett Kern has a bad game vs the Chargers and McD cuts him, bringing in an inferior punter (Berger) as the replacement.

Jack Williams gets burned in the Baltimore game and McD cuts him, signing the vet Law and playing him significantly last night even with just a few days practice.

Again there's alot of good with the broncos this year (who would have expected a 6-2 record after 8 games) but I'd like to see McD consider the long term impact of a change before pulling the trigger.

[LawDog]

Jack Williams gets burned in the Baltimore game and McD cuts him, signing the vet Law and playing him significantly last night even with just a few days practice.


I like Ty Law - and he kind of fits into the mold of veteran players that make up our secondary this year. However, to make this move on Friday, and to put Ty covering the slot which he has never done, feels like a poor decision to me. Certainly Pitt has been a pass-happy team this year so I can understand the thinking, but it easily could have been disasterous. Fortunately, despite looking somewhat bewildered, Ty played pretty well under the circumstances. And the one TD to the slot occured when Ty was not in and covering.

The mid-season personnel decisions have not really worked out that well - see Berger - but let's see what happens down the stretch...

[topscribe]

I like Ty Law - and he kind of fits into the mold of veteran players that make up our secondary this year. However, to make this move on Friday, and to put Ty covering the slot which he has never done, feels like a poor decision to me. Certainly Pitt has been a pass-happy team this year so I can understand the thinking, but it easily could have been disasterous. Fortunately, despite looking somewhat bewildered, Ty played pretty well under the circumstances. And the one TD to the slot occured when Ty was not in and covering.

The mid-season personnel decisions have not really worked out that well - see Berger - but let's see what happens down the stretch...

Were I not a Broncos fan, I would have found amusing Ty's looking around and
shrugging his shoulders. But, as you said, he did pretty well, considering . . .

-----

[rationalfan]

I really like McDaniels and the changes he's brought to the Broncos but nobody is perfect. I'm starting to see one of his flaws - he's too impulsive. Examples:

Trades Cutler when there are communication problems. Yes McD wasn't the only one involved in this decision, but cooler heads would have worked harder at a solution.

Sees a player he likes in the draft and does anything to get him, possibly wasting draft picks. The trades to get Richard Quinn and Alphonso Smith, for example.

Brett Kern has a bad game vs the Chargers and McD cuts him, bringing in an inferior punter (Berger) as the replacement.

Jack Williams gets burned in the Baltimore game and McD cuts him, signing the vet Law and playing him significantly last night even with just a few days practice.

Again there's alot of good with the broncos this year (who would have expected a 6-2 record after 8 games) but I'd like to see McD consider the long term impact of a change before pulling the trigger.

these examples as evidence of rash decisions might be true. but i think it's foolish to assume these were issues that weren't discussed and thought about prior to the final acts. simply because we hear about something on tuesday doesn't mean it wasn't discussed on Friday, or the prior month.

i'm not defending mcdaniels, just pointing out that everything he does seems methodical and an aspect of a larger system that doesn't rely on whimsy.

[Watchthemiddle]

So McDaniels was a mastermind the first 6 weeks, but forgot how to coach in the last 2? :confused:

My major complaint has been getting rid of Kern. Field position is one of the most overlooked components of a game and we got killed in that area last night.

If we aren't going to put up many points and have to punt often, we need a punter that can punt the ball deep and pin the opposing teams offense.

Two weeks in a row now, that area has been dreadful.

[TXBRONC]

Kyle Orton needs to start throwing it deep and hoping for pass interference calls like he did with Chicago.

Who knows maybe Orton will even complete a few deep passes.

[Lonestar]

I have been looking hamilton to be replaced for years. That is now a no brainer.

New punter should be gone.

Casey W may be ok with a mean nasty stronger OLG that is about 20-25 lbs bigger. Right now the two of them are the achiles heel to this oline.

Need someone (RRB's)that can pick up the blitz.

It would not matter IMHO if manning was behind that line last night he would have been on his ass also. We could have Jay back there with all of his arm and he would not have time to throw deeper routes.

I have been saying for years you win or lose at the LOS. Right now on O we are losing there.

We alos need some more beef at NT. He is playing great but is still undresized when we play the teams with the monster Olines.

Josh said he wanted to get bigger, stronger and faster when he got here. While we have made great strides in getting there, considering how bad we really were, we still have a ways to go.

For those that thought super bowl this year yes indeed the sky is falling.

To those that were more realistic we have come along way, but just starting this trip. If we get a good draft and have another year in the system we should be pretty well off in 2010.

Only a dunce would set KO at this point.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

[claymore]

I have been looking hamilton to be replaced for years. That is now a no brainer.

New punter should be gone.

Casey W may be ok with a mean nasty stronger OLG that is about 20-25 lbs bigger. Right now the two of them are the achiles heel to this oline.

Need someone (RRB's)that can pick up the blitz.

It would not matter IMHO if manning was behind that line last night he would have been on his ass also. We could have Jay back there with all of his arm and he would not have time to throw deeper routes.

I have been saying for years you win or lose at the LOS. Right now on O we are losing there.

We alos need some more beef at NT. He is playing great but is still undresized when we play the teams with the monster Olines.

Josh said he wanted to get bigger, stronger and faster when he got here. While we have made great strides in getting there, considering how bad we really were, we still have a ways to go.

For those that thought super bowl this year yes indeed the sky is falling.

To those that were more realistic we have come along way, but just starting this trip. If we get a good draft and have another year in the system we should be pretty well off in 2010.

Only a dunce would set KO at this point.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

So Basically exactly what we needed last year, but now we need Offensive lineman, and a QB too.

[Dortoh]

So Basically exactly what we needed last year, but now we need Offensive lineman, and a QB too.


Not to pile on but we need a punter now also :laugh:

[The Glue Factory]

Not to pile on but we need a punter now also :laugh:

Not that Kern was doing a fantastic job either. At least Berger can do something besides boom it into/through the end zone. Too many times this season and last any punt less than 40 yards was a guaranteed touchback for the opponent. I'd rather have a punter be able to drop it inside the ten and give our coverage a chance to down it rather than launching it into the endzone with a snowballs chance in h#ll of being downed.

Having said all that we still need a better punter.

[Ravage!!!]

I don't agree. I don't think you would have seen the pressure on Manning or Cutler. Doesn't have to do with the deep routes per se, it has to do with the THREAT of the deep routes or the threat of getting beat. Right now teams are just 'waiting' and taking that calculated risk on Orton beating them.

he will.. eventually. We'll probably go deep this coming weekend because we are playing the Redskins. Orton will be a team with a deep ball, because right now teams are willing to take that chance by pushing their safeties forward. So don't be shocked to see Royal or Marshall going deep come Sunday.


Honestly. I feel Orton just needs to have an INT or two in an game, and us win. Maybe this will relieve some of the fear he has for putting the ball downfield and the fear he has of throwing the INT. I think, right now, he plays it SO safe, that its TOO safe. A QB has to take chances.

[underrated29]

just look at the sig.


No we should not bench KO.
No our Oline is not overrated. We have a super solid OL. Problem is Josh has it running something it is not.


Think of it like this. To pull a tree stump out of the ground you would use a big heavy duty truck. Not a Porshe.

This is what Josh has our OL doing. He has our lighter quicker guys who are used to blocking an area, try to power, hold up 1 on 1 and grade the road. Its not what we are nor built for.

I have no problems moving to the power game from the zbs, i really dont care what system we use. But fact of the matter is- we are not playing to our strengths! We are making us something we are not, and the offense as a whole is suffering from it. ITS PATHETIC.


Then there is the issue of us only have a grand total of 3 running plays. I have been bytching about this since the 3rd week. And Josh is to cocky, to confident, to blind, whatever, but i can only assume we will have these 3 for the rest of the year.


I would love to see a FB lead blocker, a run up the gut, a toss, an off tackle run, a pitch wide, a counter, a draw, or even a screen up the middle (ya thats a pass). Anything like that, or all of that. I dont care. BUt when we run a trap to the RG, or the trap to the LG or the sweep to the right we get stuffed because its the only plays we run and we run them out of the same formations!!!!

[topscribe]

It would not matter IMHO if manning was behind that line last night he would have been on his ass also. We could have Jay back there with all of his arm and he would not have time to throw deeper routes.


Sounds as if you know your football . . .

-----

[horsepig]

if i had to pick any 2 loses this season it would be these two.

Baltimore is a GOOD team that came off there bye we had to expect there defense to show up sooner rather than later. the thing that really killed us in that game was the kickoff in the 3rd thought that really knocked us down

Pittsburgh- come on there the deffending champs for a reason. they ran the ball well and dont have many major holes anywhere on there team except there o line which we did get pressure on

we just need to run the ball better that will open up ortons short game

Just what the hell were the schedule makers doing? Not only did they saddle us with this schedule, but check this little tidbit out: SD/bye, Balt/bye, Pitt/bye, Wash/bye. Four games in a row we play teams with two weeks to prepare.

[underrated29]

we will beat washington, and the giants, lose to indy, not sure about the bolts- maybe a win, sweep the faiders, drop on to kc (never win in dec there), final game against the birds- we will rest players and lose to them.

So imo we should put up 5 more wins. Screw the schedule makers- next year we wont get this hellish schedule. Lets kick em in the face now.

[Ravage!!!]

Just what the hell were the schedule makers doing? Not only did they saddle us with this schedule, but check this little tidbit out: SD/bye, Balt/bye, Pitt/bye, Wash/bye. Four games in a row we play teams with two weeks to prepare.

Well.. we came off our bye week and played Baltimore..how'd that help us out? :shocked: :lol:

[T.K.O.]

berger SUCKS !

[NightTrainLayne]

Just what the hell were the schedule makers doing? Not only did they saddle us with this schedule, but check this little tidbit out: SD/bye, Balt/bye, Pitt/bye, Wash/bye. Four games in a row we play teams with two weeks to prepare.

Washington played the Falcons this weekend.

It was still a brutal stretch. Especially giving Pittsburgh an extra week to game-plan on us and see during their week off exactly how we attacked the Raven's defense, or more appropriately how the Ravens attacked us with their similar personnel.

[T.K.O.]

beat washington !;)

[weazel]

I'm swearing off Berger's

[HORSEPOWER 56]

After taking the evening to cool off, here is my take on things:

1) Orton is what he is and we've hitched our wagon to him this year. It probably wouldn't be a good idea to pull or bench him unless this gets out of control and we're 6-6 come week 13 or something which I doubt.

After re-watching the game on my DVR, I saw some good things and some really bad things. On the positive, Orton actually looked pretty good in the first half on most of his throws. He was throwing with power and zip. You could hear the smack of the ball on the WRs' hands and pads. I see no reason why he can't stretch the field a little more, he just needs to calm down. The first pick wasn't any more his fault than Moreno's it was an illegal contact call that wasn't made on the Steelers' D-lineman that dropped into coverage bumping Moreno some 7 yards off the LOS and screwing up the timing that caused it.

His second pick however was absolutely atrocious. The Steelers completely bit on the Play Action and there was no one within 5 yards of him he just sailed it high and it got picked off. After he took his first real sack, he was never the same. Same could be said of him in the Baltimore game (which was our first offensive play).

Can we win games with him? Obviously we have won 6 games with him. The real question is, can we beat good teams with him now that opposing defenses have figured us out? That my friends, I'm not so sure of. Either way, we need to get the ball to our playmakers. Marshall, Royal and Scheff MUST touch the ball a lot if we want to win.

2) The defense played a great game. Pittsburgh's offense only really had one successful drive (the first TD drive) and after that they were just killing time on a gassed defense late in the second half. Had the defense not spent the majority of the time in bad field position after continuous 3 and outs, they probably would've finished as well as they started.

In the second half, they were tired and got sloppy. That silly counter play to Mendenhall that we were eating up in the first half started being really effective in the second half. It was the same play over and over. The defense was tired and out of position. No one was setting the edge as they had in the first half and guys looked slow.

They gave up 21 points all in the second half but got 7 of them back and took points off the board with the pick in the end zone. All in all, great job to them. The score reflects very negatively on them and it shouldn't.

3) We need to show some kind of committment to the run - not just use it to try to set up the short play action passing game. Not running the ball makes us too one dimensional and we just don't have the type of QB to pass 75% of the time and win. I don't know how to fix it, but it needs serious attention. We need to get Hillis involved, too. We are wasting his talent as a runner and reciever with him standing on the sideline. GET HIM INVOLVED!

4) The punting game is terrible and needs fixing right now. No more delays. Berger gets one more game to shape up as far as I'm concerned. If he stinks it up vs Washington then he's gone.

[TXBRONC]

we will beat washington, and the giants, lose to indy, not sure about the bolts- maybe a win, sweep the faiders, drop on to kc (never win in dec there), final game against the birds- we will rest players and lose to them.

So imo we should put up 5 more wins. Screw the schedule makers- next year we wont get this hellish schedule. Lets kick em in the face now.

I know KC has been a difficult place for Denver win in but I think we'll have good shot at beating them on their turf. Our final game for the season is against the Chiefs at home.

[weazel]

After taking the evening to cool off, here is my take on things:

1) Orton is what he is and we've hitched our wagon to him this year. It probably wouldn't be a good idea to pull or bench him unless this gets out of control and we're 6-6 come week 13 or something which I doubt.

After re-watching the game on my DVR, I saw some good things and some really bad things. On the positive, Orton actually looked pretty good in the first half on most of his throws. He was throwing with power and zip. You could hear the smack of the ball on the WRs' hands and pads. I see no reason why he can't stretch the field a little more, he just needs to calm down. The first pick wasn't any more his fault than Moreno's it was an illegal contact call that wasn't made on the Steelers' D-lineman that dropped into coverage bumping Moreno some 7 yards off the LOS and screwing up the timing that caused it.


Thats odd, he was throwing high and wide the first 10 throws. The people I was watching with were commenting on how well the Denver receivers were getting hands on the errant throws. Orton was very lucky to not be picked off twice in the first ten minutes when Pitt players had easy grabs but dropped the ball.

Royal made an absolutely beautiful save when the ball was thrown behind him and he had to twist around in the air and save the ball from landing in the CB's hands.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Thats odd, he was throwing high and wide the first 10 throws. The people I was watching with were commenting on how well the Denver receivers were getting hands on the errant throws. Orton was very lucky to not be picked off twice in the first ten minutes when Pitt players had easy grabs but dropped the ball.

Royal made an absolutely beautiful save when the ball was thrown behind him and he had to twist around in the air and save the ball from landing in the CB's hands.

Honestly, I think a lot of it was ball positioning. He spent considerable effort trying to keep the ball away from defenders by doing a lot of "back shoulder" stuff. His first "bad" pass was the one he kind of threw up for grabs to Royal on 3rd down in the middle of double coverage. Had Polamalu not been so eager to knock somebody out, it would've been a pick.

[topscribe]

Thats odd, he was throwing high and wide the first 10 throws. The people I was watching with were commenting on how well the Denver receivers were getting hands on the errant throws. Orton was very lucky to not be picked off twice in the first ten minutes when Pitt players had easy grabs but dropped the ball.

Royal made an absolutely beautiful save when the ball was thrown behind him and he had to twist around in the air and save the ball from landing in the CB's hands.

I think the point HP56 was making was that Orton is capable of throwing the
ball deep. And he is. He did it often for Purdue, and he hasn't yet gotten so old
that his skills have deteriorated.

But you are right in that Orton did not have a good game yesterday. Indeed,
he generally stunk the place up. But then, I have seen QBs have terrible
games, from Unitas to Namath to Elway to Brady to Manning. Not that Orton
is in their class, but after seeing what he has done over his career, added to
his first six games here, I'm not jumping off the bandwagon, regardless of
remarks that I am an "Orton lover."

I am standing firm, after a game where Orton stunk up the joint, saying that
Orton is a good QB. I'll leave it to others to blow back and forth like the page
from a newspaper in a whirlwind, and then to think they know what they're
talking about . . .

-----

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Were I not a Broncos fan, I would have found amusing Ty's looking around and
shrugging his shoulders. But, as you said, he did pretty well, considering . . .

-----

I thought his QB wristband with the plays on it was just classic. I'd giggle every time he'd look around then stare at his wristband like "what do I do? What's the damned play?" :laugh:

[T.K.O.]

orton looked pretty bad last night....i still dont buy into the "he cant stretch the field" theory.
we could not establish any running game,that is a qb killer.
our o-line was dominated...thats a qb killer and the playcalling on offense looked timid at best.
i realize their may have been some downfield plays called that we just didnt have time to execute,but man ....the entire offense looked weak and out of synch.
i hope the trip to washington wakes this team up....with sd breathing down our necks all the sudden we cant afford anymore weak efforts.
on the other hand i can easily see us beating the redskins and the bolts losing to philly....if that happens all we need to do is whip the bolts in denver to regain a 3 game division lead in 2 weeks !:beer::salute:

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Not that Kern was doing a fantastic job either. At least Berger can do something besides boom it into/through the end zone. Too many times this season and last any punt less than 40 yards was a guaranteed touchback for the opponent. I'd rather have a punter be able to drop it inside the ten and give our coverage a chance to down it rather than launching it into the endzone with a snowballs chance in h#ll of being downed.

Having said all that we still need a better punter.

I would've preferred to see every punt last night boomed into the endzone. Forcing a team to go 80 yards is way better than giving them the ball on the 40 which I think was their average starting position on all but one punt.

[Northman]

I too think we need to stretch the field. If not, then defenses will continue to bring the pressure because there is no threat not to.

But, remember...we are 6-2. It's not like we are 2-6. We lost to 2 of the most physical teams in the league.

Orton's interceptions (one on a route being disrupted by the umpire) were caused by pressure. The offensive line at this point is the biggest and most glaring issue.

Bench Orton? I don't think so at this point. Remember, this is a year where we were supposed to suck. No one thought they would be where they are today.

Did they bench Warner after 5 turnovers? No.

If McD will open up the offense and make the defense stay honest, it will go a long ways.


And here endeth the lesson. You can put Brandstater at QB and this team will not make the SB. There is still some work to be done but the team has already acheived more than the negative nancys want to admit.

[TXBRONC]

And here endeth the lesson. You can put Brandstater at QB and this team will not make the SB. There is still some work to be done but the team has already acheived more than the negative nancys want to admit.

I don't think we have a Super Bowl caliber team right now but I do believe they should make the playoffs.

[Northman]

If I am Josh this is what I have to do...

start scouting college players, we need some players in the draft...

We need some big guards,
we need a young QB to groom,
we need a true NT

I told McDaniels not to piss me off. I am a great punter. He was trying to trade me in the offseason but got no calls. And when i demanded a trade he ignored me. So i stole his cobra with Aids in his office and then he cut my ass. What a douche.

[Northman]

I don't think we have a Super Bowl caliber team right now but I do believe they should make the playoffs.


As long as they beat the teams they should beat it should be no problem.

[Dortoh]

After taking the evening to cool off, here is my take on things:

1) Orton is what he is and we've hitched our wagon to him this year. It probably wouldn't be a good idea to pull or bench him unless this gets out of control and we're 6-6 come week 13 or something which I doubt.

After re-watching the game on my DVR, I saw some good things and some really bad things. On the positive, Orton actually looked pretty good in the first half on most of his throws. He was throwing with power and zip. You could hear the smack of the ball on the WRs' hands and pads. I see no reason why he can't stretch the field a little more, he just needs to calm down. The first pick wasn't any more his fault than Moreno's it was an illegal contact call that wasn't made on the Steelers' D-lineman that dropped into coverage bumping Moreno some 7 yards off the LOS and screwing up the timing that caused it.

His second pick however was absolutely atrocious. The Steelers completely bit on the Play Action and there was no one within 5 yards of him he just sailed it high and it got picked off. After he took his first real sack, he was never the same. Same could be said of him in the Baltimore game (which was our first offensive play).

Can we win games with him? Obviously we have won 6 games with him. The real question is, can we beat good teams with him now that opposing defenses have figured us out? That my friends, I'm not so sure of. Either way, we need to get the ball to our playmakers. Marshall, Royal and Scheff MUST touch the ball a lot if we want to win.

2) The defense played a great game. Pittsburgh's offense only really had one successful drive (the first TD drive) and after that they were just killing time on a gassed defense late in the second half. Had the defense not spent the majority of the time in bad field position after continuous 3 and outs, they probably would've finished as well as they started.

In the second half, they were tired and got sloppy. That silly counter play to Mendenhall that we were eating up in the first half started being really effective in the second half. It was the same play over and over. The defense was tired and out of position. No one was setting the edge as they had in the first half and guys looked slow.

They gave up 21 points all in the second half but got 7 of them back and took points off the board with the pick in the end zone. All in all, great job to them. The score reflects very negatively on them and it shouldn't.

3) We need to show some kind of committment to the run - not just use it to try to set up the short play action passing game. Not running the ball makes us too one dimensional and we just don't have the type of QB to pass 75% of the time and win. I don't know how to fix it, but it needs serious attention. We need to get Hillis involved, too. We are wasting his talent as a runner and reciever with him standing on the sideline. GET HIM INVOLVED!

4) The punting game is terrible and needs fixing right now. No more delays. Berger gets one more game to shape up as far as I'm concerned. If he stinks it up vs Washington then he's gone.

This is simply awesome :salute:

[dogfish]

i think we should bench clady and dumervil. . . .


*farts*

[gobroncsnv]

Just wondering why Pitt's d wasn't "gassed" in the first half, given our TOP...

[Fan in Exile]

Just wondering why Pitt's d wasn't "gassed" in the first half, given our TOP...

Probably because it was the FIRST half.

[Tned]

I don't think we have a Super Bowl caliber team right now but I do believe they should make the playoffs.

If you make it to the playoffs, anything can happen.

[TXBRONC]

If you make it to the playoffs, anything can happen.

True, but at the same time there a lot of teams capable getting to the playoffs but that doesn't mean that they're good enough to get to the next level. The Broncos 2002-2004 were that kind of team in my opinion.

[T.K.O.]

the skins may be a tougher game than their record would indicate.
i was surprised to see how close they are defensivly to the broncos....and there's always haynsworth to worry about.
we better bring our best effort or s.d. will be looking to tie up the division the week after:shocked:



Team G Pts/G TotPts Scrm Plys Yds/G Yds/P 1st/G 3rd Md 3rd Att 3rd Pct 4th Md 4th Att 4th Pct Pen Pen Yds ToP/G FUM Lost
1 New York Giants 9 22.7 204 482 272.3 5.1 15.9 33 106 31 7 10 70 48 409 25:37 19 9
2 New York Jets 8 16.8 134 488 273.4 4.5 16.2 39 108 36 0 8 0 50 436 29:20 10 8
3 Denver Broncos 8 15.5 124 481 280.2 4.7 16.4 39 108 36 3 7 43 41 405 30:14 16 7
4 Green Bay Packers 8 21.5 172 476 282.9 4.8 17.4 36 105 34 5 13 38 40 299 27:58 14 6
5 Pittsburgh Steelers 8 17.4 139 474 284.9 4.8 17.1 47 111 42 4 5 80 46 372 27:50 11 5
6 Washington Redskins 8 19.2 154 482 286.2 4.8 16.0 40 111 36 1 6 17 51 350 31:32 14 4
7 New England Patriots 8 14.4 115 468 291.8 5.0 16.9 39 100 39 3 9 33 51 430 26:35 18 8
8 Indianapolis Colts 8 13.5 108 519 303.4 4.7 18.0 52 118 44 5 10 50 52 439 30:55 10 6
9 Carolina Panthers 8 24.5 196 470 303.9 5.2 17.6 37 94 39 4 7 57 48 368 29:34 15 6
10 Philadelphia Eagles 8 19.1 153 527 304.5 4.6 18.5 40 115 35 6 14 43 46 341 31:51 16 7
11 San Diego Chargers 8 22.4 179 506 309.8 4.9 19.1 46 107 43 5 9 56 49 394 32:16 11 4
12 Baltimore Ravens 8 19.2 154 489 320.6 5.2 18.1 37 106 35 5 9 56 47 316 31:19 10 4
13 Seattle Seahawks 8 20.9 167 492 322.5 5.2 17.6 42 110 38 2 4 50 59 516 31:41 16 6
14 Cincinnati Bengals 8 16.9 135 486 325.5 5.4 17.5 37 101 37 3 7 43 57 470 28:60 11 4
15 Chicago Bears 8 23.9 191 506 326.0 5.2 19.9 46 109 42 2 6 33 37 328 30:14 12 6
16 New Orleans Saints 8 21.8 174 518 331.6 5.1 17.5 37 111 33 7 13 54 57 489 27:07 10 8
17 Houston Texans 9 20.9 188 530 332.2 5.6 17.7 41 109 38 4 10 40 62 470 27:30 15 9
18 Minnesota Vikings 8 21.8 174 490 332.6 5.4 18.5 36 102 35 5 9 56 50 444 28:20 19 7
19 San Francisco 49ers 8 21.8 174 520 334.2 5.1 18.0 49 122 40 3 7 43 65 515 30:19 12 4
20 Dallas Cowboys 8 19 152 506 336.5 5.3 19.2 35 101 35 4 7 57 48 416 29:41 11 5
21 Arizona Cardinals 8 20.5 164 499 340.4 5.5 16.4 37 113 33 4 10 40 54 450 29:04 12 5
22 Miami Dolphins 8 25.5 204 477 341.4 5.7 18.6 35 100 35 4 7 57 37 264 27:20 7 3
23 Jacksonville Jaguars 8 24.8 198 503 362.0 5.8 19.5 44 103 43 4 7 57 33 295 30:25 11 5
24 Atlanta Falcons 8 20.8 166 523 369.9 5.7 20.0 54 112 48 6 11 54 54 432 31:18 15 11
25 Buffalo Bills 8 21.1 169 568 372.4 5.2 20.1 44 121 36 9 16 56 64 546 34:13 9 3
26 Detroit Lions 8 29.6 237 491 373.0 6.1 21.1 35 91 38 4 6 67 54 473 29:57 16 5
27 Oakland Raiders 8 25.1 201 534 373.2 5.6 21.0 42 110 38 7 10 70 39 288 33:22 15 5
28 St. Louis Rams 8 27.6 221 524 373.4 5.7 22.2 53 107 50 1 4 25 40 321 32:31 8 3
29 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 8 28.9 231 504 379.9 6.0 20.0 44 102 43 3 6 50 48 438 31:52 6 3
30 Kansas City Chiefs 8 25.6 205 519 388.5 6.0 18.8 49 117 42 2 6 33 60 427 30:51 14 6
31 Tennessee Titans 8 29.8 238 533 390.2 5.9 21.2 40 109 37 7 9 78 39 295 32:58 12 5
32 Cleveland Browns 8 26.1 209 555 409.1 5.9 22.4 45 113 40 5 10 50 52 428 34:23 9 8



Hall of Fame
Record & Fact Book
Rule Book

[Tned]

True, but at the same time there a lot of teams capable getting to the playoffs but that doesn't mean that they're good enough to get to the next level. The Broncos 2002-2004 were that kind of team in my opinion.

I disagree. We didn't match up well against Indy in those years, but could have advanced against other teams, including New England. If the bracket had worked out where another team like NE played and beat Indy (which they were capable of), we could have advanced far. Indy was simply a team we didn't match up with, more so than any other team in the NFL.