Bates out as Broncos defense coach

[Denver Native (Carol)]

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/jan/08/boss-defense-exits-broncos/

Boss on defense exits Broncos
Rocky Mountain News
Originally published 01:19 p.m., January 8, 2008
Updated 01:19 p.m., January 8, 2008


Jim Bates, the Broncos’ embattled assistant head coach/defense, is leaving the team, a source told the Rocky Mountain News today.

Faced with being reassigned within the coaching staff, Bates has decided to leave the team.

Bates, who replaced Larry Coyer in the offseason, comes after a season in which Denver went 7-9 and the defense fell from No. 15 in the NFL in yards allowed to 19th and ranked 28th in scoring allowance per game.

[Stand Ablaze]

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_7913261
By Bill Williamson The Denver Post

The one-year experiment between the Broncos and defensive coach Jim Bates is over. And perhaps the only surprise was that it took nine days to make it official.

Bates released a statement through the team saying he was no longer employed. It's believed the two sides reached a settlement on the two years remaining on Bates' contract.

"I'm very thankful for the opportunity and very saddened that things did not work out," Bates said in a statement. "I had the opportunity to stay, Mike has been very fair with me, and the final decision, for the Broncos and for me, was to step aside."

A likely replacement to run the defense will be Bob Slowik. He was promoted to defensive coordinator last year after Bates was hired and made assistant head coach in charge of defense. Slowik also coached the secondary.

Bates' system never took off in Denver. Players had difficulty adjusting to it from the previous season and never felt comfortable. The Broncos allowed 409 points, the fifth-most in team history.

[MOtorboat]

There you go BG7...Denver Post...

[G_Money]

PRAISE JEEBUS!

But...Slowik...

~G

[NightTrainLayne]

Is Slowik really that much of an improvement?

I'm fearful that we've got another "one-year experiment" on our hands.

[broncogirl7]

Awesome!!! It wasn't in the Post about 30minutes ago. Freaking awesome! I am sooo excited about who we might get...

[MOtorboat]

Awesome!!! It wasn't in the Post about 30minutes ago. Freaking awesome! I am sooo excited about who we might get...

Don't get too excited. Slowik is the probable successor.

[claymore]

A likely replacement to run the defense will be Bob Slowik. He was promoted to defensive coordinator last year after Bates was hired and made assistant head coach in charge of defense. Slowik also coached the secondary.

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

[broncogirl7]

Slowick isn't confirmed yet...I want a younger, exciting coach. Ken Norton, Jr. maybe!!

[Bronco9798]

Slowik,,oh well. Go get a young guy with some ideas Mike.

[BOSSHOGG30]

If Slowik become the new Defensive Coordinator we are screwed! Not a bad secondary coach, but no success as a defensive coordinator.

Call Ken Norton Jr. please Shanny.

[Broncolingus]

Not surprising, although, ALL of the problems weren't his.

I'm already concerned if Slowik is really the final choice.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Sorry guys - both Stand Ablaze and I started similiar threads, and I wanted to merge mine under his, but did not work right.

[HolyDiver]

Ken Norton Jr. Please !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CoachChaz]

Either way, we can get away from Bates' crap. I'm on board for praying Ellis slides to us. Him and Thomas can be nasty together.
________
XZ 550 (http://www.yamaha-tech.com/wiki/Yamaha_XZ_550)

[atwater27]

OUTSTANDING!!!! I say Shanahan and Bowlen have someone good in mind to replace him, otherwise they probably would have given him one more season.

[G_Money]

At least CALL Ron Rivera. It gives us a double-bonus of pulling him away from SD where he's just helping out.

Norv Turner won a playoff game so they'll be fooled into thinking he's The Man for the job, so Ron won't want to stay there as a LB coach and D assistant. Give him back a higher-profile gig, since he's still looking to be a HC, and that'll give us a few years with a guy who knows what the heck he's doing.

~G

[Lonestar]

Is Slowik really that much of an improvement?

I'm fearful that we've got another "one-year experiment" on our hands.

I agree another mikey yes man.. When will this clown learn not to hire yes men?

We need a real GM that can hire quality coaches and players..

[Lonestar]

At least CALL Ron Rivera. It gives us a double-bonus of pulling him away from SD where he's just helping out.

Norv Turner won a playoff game so they'll be fooled into thinking he's The Man for the job, so Ron won't want to stay there as a LB coach and D assistant. Give him back a higher-profile gig, since he's still looking to be a HC, and that'll give us a few years with a guy who knows what the heck he's doing.

~G


Probably a good choice, but then anyone but one of mikeys yes men..

[BOSSHOGG30]

Did our special needs I mean teams coach walk out with Bates?

[OB]

:pray: God please send us a DC that can do something with the talent we have and be able to find talent that we dont have Amen


:shots: for everyone if you do big guy :D

[Lonestar]

Did our special needs I mean teams coach walk out with Bates?


One could hope lets see he did not develop Hixon for one.

Our team has been for years NST Not Special Team.

[JONtheBRONCO]

Slowik... Maybe, it is a young man's game.

[GEM]

One could hope lets see he did not develop Hixon for one.

Our team has been for years NST Not Special Team.

It's sad to watch him on the Giants now, isn't it?

[Lonestar]

It's sad to watch him on the Giants now, isn't it?


Someone really needs to get hired to evaluate talent. We have wasted so many choice and then allowed many that were good to slip away.. Maybe they just need good coaching..

[BOSSHOGG30]

That last part of the article scares me...

"Bob Slowik, who served as defensive coordinator/defensive backs coach last season, now will oversee the entire defense."

[yardog]

That last part of the article scares me...

"Bob Slowik, who served as defensive coordinator/defensive backs coach last season, now will oversee the entire defense."

I don't think we are any better off with Slowik. Boy I hope I'm wrong.

[yardog]

Some Slowik history.

Bob Slowik Must Be Fired

On January 16, 2004 Green Bay Packers coach Mike Sherman fired defensive coordinator Ed Donatell, making him the official scapegoat for his team's 4th-and-26 meltdown against the Philadelphia Eagles in the Packers' 20-17 loss of last year's NFC divisional playoff game.

To replace Donatell, Sherman promoted defensive backs coach Bob Slowik.

Slowik, who previously coordinated middling defenses in Chicago and Cleveland, drew up a high-pressure, high-risk, blitz-heavy scheme that was to be the identity of the 2004 Packers defense. After giving up 5 TD passes in the first half vs. Indianapolis in Week 3, his scheme was abandoned. Still, his defense gave up 5 TD passes in the first half in Week 13 against Philadelphia.

But twice giving up 5 TD passes in the first half is not why Bob Slowik must be fired. Nor is it his glaring lack of takeaways, or the insanely high opponents' passer rating. No. Bob Slowik must be fired because he schemed a defense that set many records -- in a bad way -- in the history of the Packer franchise.

Bob Slowik All-Time Records
Bob Slowik's defense is one for the history books. In a really, really bad way.

Record Slowik
Record Broken
Record
Fewest Opponent Turnovers, Season 15 16 (1995)
Fewest Passes Intercepted By, Season 8 13 (1980, 1995, 1998)
Fewest Forced Fumbles, Season 11 12 (1995)
Most First Downs Allowed, Passing, Season 228 188 (1995)
Most Yards Allowed, Net Passing, Season 3,943 3,762 (1983)
Most Yards Allowed, Passing, Game 464 448 (2004)
Most TD Allowed Passing, Season 33 31 (1986)
Highest Opponents' Passer Rating, Season 99.1 86.1 (1958)



Close-But-No-Cigar Bob Slowik All-Time Records
Thanks to Rich Wingo, Ezra Johnson, Estes Hood, and Ken Stills, Slowik finished second all-time in these categories:

Record Slowik
Record All-Time
Record
Most First Downs Allowed, Season 354 366 (1983)
Most First Downs Allowed, Penalty, Season 28 29 (2002)
Highest Completion Percentage Allowed, Season 60.6 63.45 (1989)



Likely Bob Slowik All-Time Records
Here are a few other likely records that I could not verify. Please send me an email if you have source info.

Fewest fumbles recovered, season
7. 2nd-lowest in NFL.
Opponents' 3rd down conversion percentage, season
47.3. 2nd-worst in NFL.
Opponents' passing yards/attempt, season
7.61. 4th-worst in NFL.
Opponents' passing yards/completion, season
12.6. 3rd-worst in NFL.
Most passing TDs allowed, first half
5. But you knew that.
Most passing TDs, first half
5. Indianapolis franchise record.
Most passing TDs, first half
5. Philadelphia franchise record.
Most completions, start a game
14. Philadelphia franchise record. Confirmed.
Most passing yards, game
464. Philadelphia franchise record. Confirmed.

[HolyDiver]

I don't think we are any better off with Slowik. Boy I hope I'm wrong.


Slowik could more easily be MOLDED, into fitting a certain scheme that Shanahan is looking for. While Bates was probably more set in his ways................But I agree that Slowik needs to go as well.

[NightTrainLayne]

If Slowik is going to be the guy we should have just let him take the reins last year.

If Bates was chosen over Slowik a year ago, someone else is lurking out there better than Slowik now.

[Bronco9798]

Slowik is nothing but a candidate right now.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

I have been listening to Scott and Al on AM950thefan, and Al is promoting to bring back Greg Robinson.

[slim]

Booo Slowik

Hooray beer!!!

[Bronco9798]

I have been listening to Scott and Al on AM950thefan, and Al is promoting to bring back Greg Robinson.

Broncos offense disguised Greg's schemes back in the day. Robinson liked to blitz, but we we're lucky our Offense always jumped out to early leads or Robinson would of been exposed.

[NightTrainLayne]

I have been listening to Scott and Al on AM950thefan, and Al is promoting to bring back Greg Robinson.

Doesn't anyone have any imagination or creativity anymore? He couldn't even run the UT defense adequately.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Good thing we traded up to get Moss in the 1st round of the 2007 NFL Draft so we would have the type of DE that Bates needs. What a waste of a couple picks!

[MATTYMORG]

Need someone new. I doubt Slowick will be the man. The Rocky Mountain News made it sound like he is the guy, but The Post said he is a likely candidate. Let's all pray the Broncos look elsewhere cuz there are a lot of options out there right now when it come to DC. As a fan of the Broncos I really hope they take a look at some of the names that have been mentioned in this thread.

[Bronco9798]

Good thing we traded up to get Moss in the 1st round of the 2007 NFL Draft so we would have the type of DE that Bates needs. What a waste of a couple picks!

Think about Sam Adams and the other scrub retreads we brought in as well. What a colossal mistake last year was.

[atwater27]

Good thing we traded up to get Moss in the 1st round of the 2007 NFL Draft so we would have the type of DE that Bates needs. What a waste of a couple picks!

Players are players. System schmystem.

[CoachChaz]

Have we seen enough of Moss in any system to call him a waste yet?
________
Gg50 (http://www.ferrari-wiki.com/wiki/Ferrari_GG50)

[frauschieze]

Good thing we traded up to get Moss in the 1st round of the 2007 NFL Draft so we would have the type of DE that Bates needs. What a waste of a couple picks!

Good thing we got rid of Warren to a division rival.

We could play this game all day.

Me? I'm going to do my happy dance because my late Christmas present from the Broncos just showed up.

[G_Money]

Then let's go with a "Get the lead, then pressure the crap outta the other team" approach again.

I'm not averse to creating a juggernaut offense and a blitz-heavy D - it'd give our ball-hawking corners and potentially ball-hawking new safety (see how optimistic I am about the draft?) something to do, and it'd help disguise some of our weaknesses and youth.

I don't mind trying to replicate the Colts and their approach. With Cutler, Marshall, Stokley and co we have a good start in place.

Better than mediocrity on both sides of the ball, anyway.

Robinson is far from my first choice, but I'm far more for a blitzing D than 60 minutes of non-blitzing Prevent base-package worthlessness.

~G

[joshxhannah]

either ryan boy please.

[Mike]

I didn't read through the whole thread but did anyone notice this?

----------------------------------------------------
Boss on defense exits Broncos
Rocky Mountain News
Originally published 01:19 p.m., January 8, 2008
Updated 01:42 p.m., January 8, 2008

Jim Bates, the Broncos’ embattled assistant head coach/defense, is leaving the team, a source told the Rocky Mountain News today.

Faced with being reassigned within the coaching staff, Bates has decided to leave the team.

"I'm very thankful for the opportunity and very saddened that things did not work out," Bates said. "I had the opportunity to stay, Mike has been very fair with me, and the final decision, for the Broncos and for me, was to step aside."

Bob Slowik, who served as defensive coordinator/defensive backs coach last season, now will oversee the entire defense.

Bates, who replaced Larry Coyer in the offseason, comes after a season in which Denver went 7-9 and the defense fell from No. 15 in the NFL in yards allowed to 19th and ranked 28th in scoring allowance per game.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/jan/08/boss-defense-exits-broncos/

------------------------------------------

:censored:

[Bronco9798]

Then let's go with a "Get the lead, then pressure the crap outta the other team" approach again.

I'm not averse to creating a juggernaut offense and a blitz-heavy D - it'd give our ball-hawking corners and potentially ball-hawking new safety (see how optimistic I am about the draft?) something to do, and it'd help disguise some of our weaknesses and youth.

I don't mind trying to replicate the Colts and their approach. With Cutler, Marshall, Stokley and co we have a good start in place.

Better than mediocrity on both sides of the ball, anyway.

Robinson is far from my first choice, but I'm far more for a blitzing D than 60 minutes of non-blitzing Prevent base-package worthlessness.

~G

I'm with you. 97 and 98 offense would be hard to carbonate, but if this offense get on track and play to it's potential, it could be done. With that said, I really wouldn't want Robinson back in Denver. Those were times that would be hard to duplicate. Robinson cold of got really exposed if we didn;t make teams one dimensional back then.

[Bronco9798]

I didn't read through the whole thread but did anyone notice this?

----------------------------------------------------
Boss on defense exits Broncos
Rocky Mountain News
Originally published 01:19 p.m., January 8, 2008
Updated 01:42 p.m., January 8, 2008

Jim Bates, the Broncos’ embattled assistant head coach/defense, is leaving the team, a source told the Rocky Mountain News today.

Faced with being reassigned within the coaching staff, Bates has decided to leave the team.

"I'm very thankful for the opportunity and very saddened that things did not work out," Bates said. "I had the opportunity to stay, Mike has been very fair with me, and the final decision, for the Broncos and for me, was to step aside."

Bob Slowik, who served as defensive coordinator/defensive backs coach last season, now will oversee the entire defense.

Bates, who replaced Larry Coyer in the offseason, comes after a season in which Denver went 7-9 and the defense fell from No. 15 in the NFL in yards allowed to 19th and ranked 28th in scoring allowance per game.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/jan/08/boss-defense-exits-broncos/

------------------------------------------

:censored:

You probably need to read more. :D J/K...

[BOSSHOGG30]

I bet Defensive coordinators all around the league are dreaming of coming to Denver..... We only fire them every year or two, so who wouldn't want to come to Denver now? (sarcasm)

[Lonestar]

Slowik could more easily be MOLDED, into fitting a certain scheme that Shanahan is looking for. While Bates was probably more set in his ways................But I agree that Slowik needs to go as well.


YEP ASS KISSER.. not doubt in my mind..

I just added this to masons blog I wonder how long it will stay there

Another stupid move by mikey, he needs to get rid of the yes men and hire more qualified coaches, once hired allow them to do their job as well as give them the players to do so..

Bates was a proven winner till he came to DEN and was micro managed by the mastermind..

We need a Proven GM to hire qualified coaches and players.. the mikey experiment in having total is now 13 years old and we have been backsliding for near a decade.

I really thought he was making progress last year in Hiring Jim Bates. Guess it was just lip service.

There is no doubt in my mind that Bates was a big reason we got 3 out of four choices last year on Defense otherwise the mastermind would have went heavy on offense again.

God forbid that slowic replaces him..

I can hardly wait to hear the EOY press conference about being just a player or two away from being a Superbowl team AGAIN. More BS.

[slim]

YEP ASS KISSER.. not doubt in my mind..

I just added this to masons blog I wonder how long it will stay there

Another stupid move by mikey, he needs to get rid of the yes men and hire more qualified coaches, once hired allow them to do their job as well as give them the players to do so..

Bates was a proven winner till he came to DEN and was micro managed by the mastermind..

We need a Proven GM to hire qualified coaches and players.. the mikey experiment in having total is now 13 years old and we have been backsliding for near a decade.

I really thought he was making progress last year in Hiring Jim Bates. Guess it was just lip service.

There is no doubt in my mind that Bates was a big reason we got 3 out of four choices last year on Defense otherwise the mastermind would have went heavy on offense again.

God forbid that slowic replaces him..

I can hardly wait to hear the EOY press conference about being just a player or two away from being a Superbowl team AGAIN. More BS.

You wouldn't happen to have a brother in Arizona named zambini, would you?

[BroncoJoe]

You wouldn't happen to have a brother in Arizona named zambini, would you?

I was just going to ask that!!!

[WARHORSE]

Im looking at the defense, and a big fat DT would be critical to helping us move towards a much more flexible defense. I believe we would have a team that would be able to play both the 3-4 and the 4-3 for periods of effectiveness.

Along with a Vince Wilfork type: 6' 2" 325 and superstrong, (Dorsey?)Crowder and Thomas would fit perfectly at DE in a 3-4, with Williams, Dumerville, Moss and Winborn playing at LB. The pressure could come from anywhere.

More important than who we get to be our Defensive coach I think is who we pick up in the draft. They must be able to contribute right away, and effectively.

[tubby]

Bring back Coyer.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q224/jribbens02/coyer2.jpg

[Bronco9798]

I liked Coyer, personally. I wanted him to stay over Bates.

[Lonestar]

I bet Defensive coordinators all around the league are dreaming of coming to Denver..... We only fire them every year or two, so who wouldn't want to come to Denver now? (sarcasm)

Right on the money with this..

Who would want to come here after being blamed for all of mikeys failures each year Robinson left, Rhodes left, coyer fired and now Bates. Two of the four very respected DC's and Head coach material.

No decent Defensive guy would touch the kiss of death position in DEN..

Mikey has neglected the defense on draft day one outside of the LB position for almost ever. It is not the coaches fault given the players they have to work with..IMO

Lets see take the job and be fired on or two years later.. or go to a good team within a great organization. Where they want some one to suceed.

That is a real hard decision..


I would have loved to be a fly on the wall listening to the conversations of all the folks that mikey has fired or let go.

[Skinny]

Bring back Coyer.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q224/jribbens02/coyer2.jpgHELL NO!!!!!!!

(No offense tubby!) :D

[tubby]

I liked Coyer, personally. I wanted him to stay over Bates.

I liked him too.

Remember how bad Hoe hated him? I tried to get him to chill out by posting that picture of Coyer smoking a pipe.

[underrated29]

Bring back Coyer.
]




NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. That mans defense NEVER adjusted during the game. Once a team figured out where to strike it was game over. Tampa had a good defense all year. but in the playoffs the got whupped by the giants. The giants. Eli manning should have been destroyed.


NNNNOOOOOOOO coyer please......

[Lonestar]

You wouldn't happen to have a brother in Arizona named zambini, would you?


not that I know of..

[BOSSHOGG30]

So will Shanny still talk to the media on Thursday?

[Lonestar]

Im looking at the defense, and a big fat DT would be critical to helping us move towards a much more flexible defense. I believe we would have a team that would be able to play both the 3-4 and the 4-3 for periods of effectiveness.

Along with a Vince Wilfork type: 6' 2" 325 and superstrong, (Dorsey?)Crowder and Thomas would fit perfectly at DE in a 3-4, with Williams, Dumerville, Moss and Winborn playing at LB. The pressure could come from anywhere.

More important than who we get to be our Defensive coach I think is who we pick up in the draft. They must be able to contribute right away, and effectively.


considering doom and moss would not know a LB if one bit them in on the ass. I like the idea..

[Bronco9798]

So will Shanny still talk to the media on Thursday?

Of course He will...

[dogfish]

well, i hope everyone who called for bates' head is going to be real happy when slowik takes over. . . what we'll end up doing is trading a coach who was successful in several other jobs and had a bad (admittedly, really bad) year here for a guy who hasn't had notable success anywhere-- not exactly an upgrade IMO. . . keep dreaming of rex ryan and whoever else, but slowik is probably who you're getting. . . :coffee:



hey, then after he stinks it up and gets canned, we can GO BACK AND START ALL OVER AGAIN FROM SCRATCH ON THAT SIDE OF THE BALL YET AGAIN. . . .


IMO the bottom line is that we're not going to be successful on that side of the ball until we get some NFL-caliber defensive tackles, and preferably a weakside linebacker who knows how to play-- regardless of who the coordinator is. . . buddy ryan couldn't put together a quality defense with starters like ian fold, nick ferguson, alvin mckinley and john engelberger. . .

[Lonestar]

well, i hope everyone who called for bates' head is going to be real happy when slowik takes over. . . what we'll end up doing is trading a coach who was successful in several other jobs and had a bad (admittedly, really bad) year here for a guy who hasn't had notable success anywhere-- not exactly an upgrade IMO. . . keep dreaming of rex ryan and whoever else, but slowik is probably who you're getting. . . :coffee:



hey, then after he stinks it up and gets canned, we can GO BACK AND START ALL OVER AGAIN FROM SCRATCH ON THAT SIDE OF THE BALL YET AGAIN. . . .


IMO the bottom line is that we're not going to be successful on that side of the ball until we get some NFL-caliber defensive tackles, and preferably a weakside linebacker who knows how to play-- regardless of who the coordinator is. . . buddy ryan couldn't put together a quality defense with starters like ian fold, nick ferguson, alvin mckinley and john engelberger. . .


I suspect you right. The mastermind stikes again..

[NightTrainLayne]

The way I'm interpreting this, it appears that Bates resigned rather than Shanny firing him. Anybody else see it differently?

[Lonestar]

The way I'm interpreting this, it appears that Bates resigned rather than Shanny firing him. Anybody else see it differently?

bate was givne another job like water boy.. declined to take it..

Saves them a ton of money,for him not to be demeaned..

[Broncolingus]

well, i hope everyone who called for bates' head is going to be real happy when slowik takes over. . . what we'll end up doing is trading a coach who was successful in several other jobs and had a bad (admittedly, really bad) year here for a guy who hasn't had notable success anywhere-- not exactly an upgrade IMO. . . keep dreaming of rex ryan and whoever else, but slowik is probably who you're getting. . . :coffee:



hey, then after he stinks it up and gets canned, we can GO BACK AND START ALL OVER AGAIN FROM SCRATCH ON THAT SIDE OF THE BALL YET AGAIN. . . .


IMO the bottom line is that we're not going to be successful on that side of the ball until we get some NFL-caliber defensive tackles, and preferably a weakside linebacker who knows how to play-- regardless of who the coordinator is. . . buddy ryan couldn't put together a quality defense with starters like ian fold, nick ferguson, alvin mckinley and john engelberger. . .

To lengthen my message I am going to say this was a Good Post because saying 'GP' is not long enough...

[Broncolingus]

bate was givne another job like water boy.. declined to take it..

Saves them a ton of money,for him not to be demeaned..

...or holding Shanny's cord for his headset.

[G_Money]

Awesome report card on Slowik's performance with Green Bay in 2004:

http://dack.com/archive/bob-slowik-must-be-fired.html


To replace Donatell, Sherman promoted defensive backs coach Bob Slowik.

Slowik, who previously coordinated middling defenses in Chicago and Cleveland, drew up a high-pressure, high-risk, blitz-heavy scheme that was to be the identity of the 2004 Packers defense. After giving up 5 TD passes in the first half vs. Indianapolis in Week 3, his scheme was abandoned. Still, his defense gave up 5 TD passes in the first half in Week 13 against Philadelphia.

But twice giving up 5 TD passes in the first half is not why Bob Slowik must be fired. Nor is it his glaring lack of takeaways, or the insanely high opponents' passer rating. No. Bob Slowik must be fired because he schemed a defense that set many records -- in a bad way -- in the history of the Packer franchise.

Bob Slowik All-Time Records

That was a really bad D, if you look at the records he managed to set or almost set for the Pack.

I will not be a happy camper if he gets the DC job in truth instead of just name.

But Bates had to go. After a performance like that, with no solutions as the season wore on and none likely to come, he just couldn't stay.

~G

[G_Money]

bate was givne another job like water boy.. declined to take it..

Saves them a ton of money,for him not to be demeaned..

Yeah, the word is he was offered *a* job in the defense, but not the one he had, and rather than be demoted he resigned.

Way to save Bowlen 2 mil, Shanny. Now stop screwing up the DC position and get a real coordinator in here. Slowik doesn't count.

~G

[BroncoJoe]

I doubt Ryan (the one from Oakland) will get a HC job, even though he's interviewing. He might be intriguing - Raider D was descent in 2006 - fell a bit this year.

[slim]

I doubt Ryan (the one from Oakland) will get a HC job, even though he's interviewing. He might be intriguing - Raider D was descent in 2006 - fell a bit this year.

Well, the raiders had a worse run D then we did this year...just saying. :elefant:

[Lonestar]

Awesome report card on Slowik's performance with Green Bay in 2004:

http://dack.com/archive/bob-slowik-must-be-fired.html



That was a really bad D, if you look at the records he managed to set or almost set for the Pack.

I will not be a happy camper if he gets the DC job in truth instead of just name.

But Bates had to go. After a performance like that, with no solutions as the season wore on and none likely to come, he just couldn't stay.

~G


G you just can't make a silk purse out of sows ear.. With the total lack of talent on the DLine what does anyone expect..

Mikey has not spent a first day pick on good DL guy since price.. What did he have to work with.. Just what was available.. I Know in my heart if Bates was not here last year we would not have had 3 of 4 pick on the DL.. And we would have been just a bad with what we had, if not worse..

They could have picked up a couple of DT during the year Tank from CHI would have helped I'd guess that mikey said no.. due to issues..

[G_Money]

G you just can't make a silk purse out of sows ear.. With the total lack of talent on the DLine what does anyone expect..

Do we know there was a lack of talent on the DL?

I mean, if the next guy comes in and uses Crowder, Thomas, Moss, Dumervil, Peterson and McKinley and we ownz0r the opposing team (or even hold our own), was that just because the rooks are a year older or is it that Bates never got anything out of the guys he was given?

Many of us thought Crowder and Thomas were very good picks (with Thomas a potential 1st rounder if he hadn't been dumb), and some believed Moss had the potential to be great. Dumervil's a sack machine.

With more blitzing and less "hold your guy there while the RB gashes us for seven yards, never stunt, don't blitz the LBs or safeties or corners, always play predictably" playcalling perhaps the line wouldn't have looked as bad.

Bates couldn't stop the run with 7 in the box.

He couldn't stop it with 8 in the box.

He had two all-pro corners and HOF safety and he refused to blitz.

He let opposing QBs get comfortable.

And he went through 16 DL without ever significantly modifying what he wanted those DL to do.

You can't coach the talent you want to have, only the talent you do have. Here's hoping our next DC does a better job of getting the most out of what's on the roster instead of pining for what he wishes was on it.

~G

[slim]

Do we know there was a lack of talent on the DL?

I mean, if the next guy comes in and uses Crowder, Thomas, Moss, Dumervil, Peterson and McKinley and we ownz0r the opposing team (or even hold our own), was that just because the rooks are a year older or is it that Bates never got anything out of the guys he was given?

Many of us thought Crowder and Thomas were very good picks (with Thomas a potential 1st rounder if he hadn't been dumb), and some believed Moss had the potential to be great. Dumervil's a sack machine.

With more blitzing and less "hold your guy there while the RB gashes us for seven yards, never stunt, don't blitz the LBs or safeties or corners, always play predictably" playcalling perhaps the line wouldn't have looked as bad.

Bates couldn't stop the run with 7 in the box.

He couldn't stop it with 8 in the box.

He had two all-pro corners and HOF safety and he refused to blitz.

He let opposing QBs get comfortable.

And he went through 16 DL without ever significantly modifying what he wanted those DL to do.

You can't coach the talent you want to have, only the talent you do have. Here's hoping our next DC does a better job of getting the most out of what's on the roster instead of pining for what he wishes was on it.

~G

You are correct. That is the only good news if Slowik takes over. At least Slowik will blitz once in awhile. If the front four can't get it done you have to try something else...try anything. Bates did nothing.

[WARHORSE]

One thing I liked this year was the fact that we adjusted. To be honest though, Im wondering if it came at the command of Shanahan rather than Bates after the first few games.

I really liked Coyer, but like some have mentioned, didnt like his lack of gametime adjustments or scheme tweaks to keep teams off-balance.

Seems to me the Ryans are good fits for our personel ability, but only with a real boost coming from the position of DT. Without that, I dont think it will matter who you bring in.

[Lonestar]

Do we know there was a lack of talent on the DL?

I mean, if the next guy comes in and uses Crowder, Thomas, Moss, Dumervil, Peterson and McKinley and we ownz0r the opposing team (or even hold our own), was that just because the rooks are a year older or is it that Bates never got anything out of the guys he was given?

Many of us thought Crowder and Thomas were very good picks (with Thomas a potential 1st rounder if he hadn't been dumb), and some believed Moss had the potential to be great. Dumervil's a sack machine.

With more blitzing and less "hold your guy there while the RB gashes us for seven yards, never stunt, don't blitz the LBs or safeties or corners, always play predictably" playcalling perhaps the line wouldn't have looked as bad.

Bates couldn't stop the run with 7 in the box.

He couldn't stop it with 8 in the box.

He had two all-pro corners and HOF safety and he refused to blitz.

He let opposing QBs get comfortable.

And he went through 16 DL without ever significantly modifying what he wanted those DL to do.

You can't coach the talent you want to have, only the talent you do have. Here's hoping our next DC does a better job of getting the most out of what's on the roster instead of pining for what he wishes was on it.

~G

Overall I agree but I suspect we are not gonna be better next year Without One more Stud DT wherever they get them..

Sure with another year under their belt as well as weights, coaching and film work in the off season should make a world of difference.
Thomas ran down in the end of the season and did not have a clue in the beginning of it..

The one thing is who if anyone is the DL coach? I would think if anyone is gone it would have been him first..

players play coaches coach I saw very little playing near the LOS..

Some of it scheme I'm sure but I'll wait till next year have been doing that since 1960 so it is not new to me..

I hope your correct that it was all coach.

I wrote the season off in about week 3, was criticized for calling it a rebuilding year then..

[Stargazer]

Slowik will bring sexy back!

[Lonestar]

Reporting
Gary Miller DENVER (CBS4/AP) ― Denver Broncos defensive boss Jim Bates resigned on Tuesday after the team limped to a 7-9 record in his first year on the job.

Bates' departure was expected. The Broncos finished 19th in overall defense and 30th against the run.

"I had the opportunity to stay," Bates said in a written statement. "(Coach Mike Shanahan) has been very fair with me, and the final decision, for the Broncos and for me, was to step aside."

Bates, whose title was assistant head coach/defense, had success with his system with the Green Bay Packers and Miami Dolphins, but the Broncos were unable to master it.

Bates said he was "very saddened that things did not work out."

CBS4's Gary Miller has learned that Bates was offered the job as linebackers coach, but declined.


Miller also has learned that defensive coordinator/defensive backs coach Bob Slowik will be the head of the defense

[MyBroncosFootball]

I agree that we need a new defensive coordinator but we can't keep changing every year. That is one of the reasons why we are inconsistant.

[yardog]

Didn't we have a STud DT? That didn't fit the scheme and was traded.

[BOSSHOGG30]

If Slowik is the Head Coach next season, I say we trade D.J. Williams, Champ Bailey, and anyone else that we can on defense and we better use the draft and the trades to build a very good offense because we will need to score a whole lot of points.

[G_Money]

Didn't we have a STud DT? That didn't fit the scheme and was traded.

To be fair, he wasn't exactly a Pro-Bowler in Oakland - that team sucked against the run too.

~G

[Bronco9798]

DENVER (CBS4/AP) ― Denver Broncos defensive boss Jim Bates resigned on Tuesday after the team limped to a 7-9 record in his first year on the job.

Bates' departure was expected. The Broncos finished 19th in overall defense and 30th against the run.

"I had the opportunity to stay," Bates said in a written statement. "(Coach Mike Shanahan) has been very fair with me, and the final decision, for the Broncos and for me, was to step aside."

Bates, whose title was assistant head coach/defense, had success with his system with the Green Bay Packers and Miami Dolphins, but the Broncos were unable to master it.

Bates said he was "very saddened that things did not work out."

CBS4's Gary Miller has learned that Bates was offered the job as linebackers coach, but declined.

Miller also has learned that defensive coordinator/defensive backs coach Bob Slowik will be the head of the defense.

[claymore]

We were this close to seeing Bates linebacker system. SOB

[Bronco9798]

that was already posted, but had to bold that last line.

[Lonestar]

If Slowik is the Head Coach next season, I say we trade D.J. Williams, Champ Bailey, and anyone else that we can on defense and we better use the draft and the trades to build a very good offense because we will need to score a whole lot of points.

I agree I guess it is now wait till mikey is fired before this team can excel.

When is pat gonna learn?

[yardog]

I can see your point G but I still think we traded or released good talent that could have played a lot better in a different scheme.

[slim]

Miller also has learned that defensive coordinator/defensive backs coach Bob Slowik will be the head of the defense.

Meh, he was already the DC this past year, so I'm not sure that really means anything. Well see.

[Bronco9798]

So Slowik is now in charge of the defense. Interesting.

[slim]

So Slowik is now in charge of the defense. Interesting.

But what does that mean exactly? Bates was the Assistant HC/Defense and Slowik was the DC. Now Slowik is the Assistant HC/Defense and we will bring in another DC? Or does it mean something esle? At this point, I don't think anyone knows.

[Bronco9798]

But what does that mean exactly? Bates was the Assistant HC/Defense and Slowik was the DC. Now Slowik is the Assistant HC/Defense and we will bring in another DC? Or does it mean something esle? At this point, I don't think anyone knows.

I think you're right.

[G_Money]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I can see your point G but I still think we traded or released good talent that could have played a lot better in a different scheme.
I agree.

But in a way I'm glad they're gone. It's all on Bates this way, instead of us blaming "underperforming Browncos" or whatever.

If the reward from us trading Warren to Oak-Town is one less year of the scheme we were in, then I'm happy Shanny shuffled the DL deck almost off the table.

I was deluded when Bates was brought in that we were close to being ready, and that a good draft and FA period would bring us some immediate playoff success. We were not close, and we did not have the right scheme. And once that scheme was shown not to be the right one, we were unable to locate even the semblance of any other worthwhile scheme.

So now we try again. I don't like that we have our 3rd DC in 3 years, but I'd rather be on #3 than proceeding with an unworkable scheme and throwing more draftpicks and FAs at the problem in utter futility.

~G

[NightTrainLayne]

But what does that mean exactly? Bates was the Assistant HC/Defense and Slowik was the DC. Now Slowik is the Assistant HC/Defense and we will bring in another DC? Or does it mean something esle? At this point, I don't think anyone knows.

Despite the titles Bates was the "head" of the defense. . .so if whatever the title Slowik will be running the show defensively based on this article.

[slim]

Well, we have nowhere to go but up...:elefant:

[Stargazer]

We were this close to seeing Bates linebacker system. SOB

No patience...:tsk:

[G_Money]

Despite the titles Bates was the "head" of the defense. . .so if whatever the title Slowik will be running the show defensively based on this article.

Until Shanny says it, I'm assuming the Slowik reference was a writer putting his own assumptions into the artice. Yes, Slowik is the de-facto "Head of Defense" until proven otherwise.

But it could be proven otherwise in very short order.

~G

[slim]

Until Shanny says it, I'm assuming the Slowik reference was a writer putting his own assumptions into the artice. Yes, Slowik is the de-facto "Head of Defense" until proven otherwise.

But it could be proven otherwise in very short order.

~G

That's exactly what I was thinking. :elefant:

[claymore]

As most of us have had several jobs in our life, I think it is fair to understand that Slowik might have a chest full of ideas after seeing his boss's screw things up for years. This is a huge promotion for him if he gets it, and I am sure he will work night and day to fix the problem.

OK, thats my glass half full scenario.

[Stargazer]

Here you go Jim. Two rookie ends, 1 washed up DT via trade, another rookie DT. Your MLB is gone. Make these geezer safties work. I did get you another old CB. Will that help? By the way I blew our wad on offense this offseason. Make it work Jim! Make it work in 1 season!

[NightTrainLayne]

Until Shanny says it, I'm assuming the Slowik reference was a writer putting his own assumptions into the artice. Yes, Slowik is the de-facto "Head of Defense" until proven otherwise.

But it could be proven otherwise in very short order.

~G

We can only hope and pray. . .

[dogfish]

But what does that mean exactly?


i just hope it doesn't mean we're screwed. . . . :fear:

[G_Money]

Here you go Jim. Two rookie ends, 1 washed up DT via trade, another rookie DT. Your MLB is gone. Make these geezer safties work. I did get you another old CB. Will that help? By the way I blew our wad on offense this offseason. Make it work Jim! Make it work in 1 season!

Or:

"Here you go, Jim: 1 stud LB, 2 pro-bowl corners, 1 HOF safety who's good in the run game. We'll need some help on the DL, so I'll let you get whoever you want in the draft, and even though we missed on Kerney I did try there. I'll trade draft picks to other teams to get the guys you want, trade our current DT to a hated rival if you don't like him...whatever you want, big guy. Adams, Rice, whoever you want. Shuffle mid-season? Sure. As long as there's improvement...wait, where's the improvement...?"

It wasn't like Bates walked into a perfect situation, but he knew that. He knew HE was supposed to be the major improvement, and that didn't pan out.

~G

[Stargazer]

It wasn't like Bates walked into a perfect situation, but he knew that. He knew HE was supposed to be the major improvement, and that didn't pan out.

~G

Takes more than one season to make the switch. When his defense was abandoned mid-season it was the beginning of the end for Bates in Denver. And, unfortunately Shanahan didn't have the patience to ride it out. I totally do not agree with it, but oh well. Yay!:tsk:

[TXBRONC]

Don't get too excited. Slowik is the probable successor.

With Bill Williamson as the reporter of this articlie I don't know if would put a lot of stock into it.

[NameUsedBefore]

I really wanted to keep Bates around for one more year, just to see... but now that he is gone, nothing we can do. Slowik, though... can't say I've been a fan of his since, uh, ever.

[Stargazer]

can't say I've been a fan of his since, uh, ever.

Who has!:laugh: But, he'll bring sexy back!

[G_Money]

Takes more than one season to make the switch. When his defense was abandoned mid-season it was the beginning of the end for Bates in Denver. And, unfortunately Shanahan didn't have the patience to ride it out. I totally do not agree with it, but oh well. Yay!:tsk:

Okay, but if it takes more than one season, shouldn't we be making progress in that season?

If the Bates D had to be abandoned mid-season, then the first thing I'd ask him in the off-season is, "So, since you've only really ever used your system, and we abandoned it during the year, what are you gonna bring to the table next season if you come back? I mean, do you have an alternate system, or a way to get the 5 key guys you apparently need to run this system? Because we can't go back out there with no system and no adjustments next year..."

The players can say "we just didn't perform in the system, it's our fault" all they want, but we can't flush all the players. We don't have the cap space or the time for that kind of immediate turnover, nor are we guaranteed of getting in new guys who CAN perform. Bates didn't find a DL he liked during a whole season of dropping and picking up more than a dozen guys. One week's starter was the next week's roster cut.

So if we weren't gonna get better-fitting personnel, and we weren't gonna have a different scheme run by Bates, then Bates had to go. If there are a dozen guys in the world that can run your scheme and all of them are under contract to other teams or otherwise unavailable, then your scheme will not work here.

And you have to move on.

~G

[mclark]

Either way, we can get away from Bates' crap. I'm on board for praying Ellis slides to us. Him and Thomas can be nasty together.

I'm leaning toward Ellis also, especially now that our DT no longer have to be huge blobs sucking in blockers.

[jlarsiii]

Okay, but if it takes more than one season, shouldn't we be making progress in that season?

If the Bates D had to be abandoned mid-season, then the first thing I'd ask him in the off-season is, "So, since you've only really ever used your system, and we abandoned it during the year, what are you gonna bring to the table next season if you come back? I mean, do you have an alternate system, or a way to get the 5 key guys you apparently need to run this system? Because we can't go back out there with no system and no adjustments next year..."

The players can say "we just didn't perform in the system, it's our fault" all they want, but we can't flush all the players. We don't have the cap space or the time for that kind of immediate turnover, nor are we guaranteed of getting in new guys who CAN perform. Bates didn't find a DL he liked during a whole season of dropping and picking up more than a dozen guys. One week's starter was the next week's roster cut.

So if we weren't gonna get better-fitting personnel, and we weren't gonna have a different scheme run by Bates, then Bates had to go. If there are a dozen guys in the world that can run your scheme and all of them are under contract to other teams or otherwise unavailable, then your scheme will not work here.

And you have to move on.

~G

That is one way to look at it, but you are making a huge assumption there. I would guess that Bates knows a thing or two about defenses and when they dumped his scheme midseason I would have to think that he tried several different strategies. What, exactly, can you do when you still have to devote 8 guys in the box to stop the run? That doesn't leave a lot of room for variation.

What if maybe, just maybe, our personnel really do suck and suck badly? That is my guess. Whether it was guys that were too old or guys that were too young and inexperienced either way we just sucked it up this year. Our d-line was mediocre and that is an extreme compliment, our lbs were horrid except for DJ by the end of the season, and our vaunted top notch secondary sure didn't show it on the field.

Bates was the fall guy, but they all need to share the blame. And as far as Slowik is concerned how come he wasn't canned as well. If his title was DC or co-DC shouldn't he be just as responsible for this awful d? Now he could be running the show. . . wow that will be one heck of an upgrade apparently. . . . . . . .

[topscribe]

With Bill Williamson as the reporter of this articlie I don't know if would put a lot of stock into it.

Over the years, I have found Williamson to be quite reliable.

-----

[mclark]

That is one way to look at it, but you are making a huge assumption there. I would guess that Bates knows a thing or two about defenses and when they dumped his scheme midseason I would have to think that he tried several different strategies. What, exactly, can you do when you still have to devote 8 guys in the box to stop the run? That doesn't leave a lot of room for variation.

What if maybe, just maybe, our personnel really do suck and suck badly? That is my guess. Whether it was guys that were too old or guys that were too young and inexperienced either way we just sucked it up this year. Our d-line was mediocre and that is an extreme compliment, our lbs were horrid except for DJ by the end of the season, and our vaunted top notch secondary sure didn't show it on the field.

Bates was the fall guy, but they all need to share the blame. And as far as Slowik is concerned how come he wasn't canned as well. If his title was DC or co-DC shouldn't he be just as responsible for this awful d? Now he could be running the show. . . wow that will be one heck of an upgrade apparently. . . . . . . .

'Fall Guy'? Actually our defense came out lousy in the first preseason game and got worse. We unloaded Warren for nothing, because he didn't want to be a passive load of blubber in the middle holding blockers. Then a whole string of mediocre veterans came and went.

Our offense wasn't terrible the first half of the season; but our defense was. If our defense would have contributed anything in the first half of the season we might have made the playoffs. Instead, our defense could not compete, and eventually are offense also imploded.

Bates did a lousy job. Do you fire a guy when he does a lousy job? Yes. The Bates Experiment was a hideous failure.

Let's move on.

[mclark]

The kiss of death for Bates was not having a real, experienced middle linebacker ready to go. In his system, the DTackles hold the offensive linemen and the middle linebacker makes all the tackles. But DJ Williams wasn't ready for that role. He eventually did make all the tackles but he had trouble reading what holes the runners were filling, so our run defense was terrible.

Bates System doesn't call for great defensive tackles -- it calls for big defensive tackles who are good at holding and it calls for ferocous linebackers. We didn't have the ferocious linebackers we thought we did.

It's a whole different ballgame in the middle than on the outside. It's like saying 'oh, he can play second base, let's put him at third base.' Sometimes it works; but it usually doesn't.

Yes, DJ Williams is a great athlete and a good linebacker. But he was asked to do the improbable when he was moved inside, without experience playing there.

[BigDaddyBronco]

One down now it's O'Brien's turn!

[mclark]

One down now it's O'Brien's turn!

One at a time....moving toward some new blood in Denver.

The message: Being mediocre is not acceptable.

[G_Money]

One at a time....moving toward some new blood in Denver.

The message: Being mediocre is not acceptable.

Somebody should tell Shanny that applies on the offensive side of the ball too - but one thing at a time.

~G

[MHCBill]

Low blow G!

Numerous injuries along the offensive line...

First year starter at QB...

Druggie running back...

#1 WR out most of the year...

Playing from behind constantly...

[G_Money]

They were playing from behind because they couldn't get a lead.

They couldn't get it in the end-zone.

By the end of the year they were throwing it from the 21 trying to score rather than trying to get INTO the red-zone because their efforts inside the 10 were so pathetic.

Yes, they had injury issues, and doped-up RB issues, and youngsters.

But the play-calling in critical situations was atrocious - carrying on a problem from the previous season.

We better get that fixed. Cutler had 3500 yards, Marshall had 100 catches, our running game was top-10 in ypg and top 5 in ypc...

And we were abysmal at putting early points on the board or closing teams out late, and sustaining success throughout the game was beyond us.

We need more talent on the OL, and more health, but I'd hate to see Shanahan scape-goat the injury bug and ignore the 2 year dearth of critical play-calls that have dogged us.

Special Teams and Defense both had coaches that let them down...and so did the offense.

~G

[MHCBill]

Agreed, but the players need to play better too.

Coaching needs to improve and players need to improve.

This season there's enough blame to go around.

[mclark]

Hemmerdinger? What has he given us in his tenure? I really can't see his effect on anything? (I realize, it's Shanny's offense.)

[broncofanatic1987]

I can't believe they only gave the guy one year. That's ridiculous.

I hope Shanahan is right about Slowik. They promoted Slowik to DC when they brought in Bates, presumably to discourage anyone from trying to steal him away, so hopefully he can get the job done.

To tell the truth though, this is more of an indictment on the players than Bates. It takes a lot of talent to execute a system like Bates' because it focuses on execution rather than complicated formations and blitzes. The Broncos don't have the talent to execute the scheme so he gets the ax. What a shame. I thought they would try to get more talent on the defense, but I guess I was wrong.

This could mean that defensive tackle and linebacker won't be as big of a priority as we thought they would. It will depend a lot on what kind of scheme Slowik intends to use. I remember reading one article that indicated he uses more blitzes. I would say that everything is wide open for the Broncos in free agency and the draft now that Bates is gone.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Well...at least we all know for sure now. Maybe a Rivera or Norton can come in. I just hope the new guy actually tries to apply some pressure.

[gobroncsnv]

Either way, we can get away from Bates' crap. I'm on board for praying Ellis slides to us. Him and Thomas can be nasty together.

Why would we need ANYONE else on our D now that Bates is gone? If he was the problem, why draft anybody???

I just hope the team continues with going after better dlinemen... getting rid of a DC won't help a bit if we keep asking them to make silk purses out of sow's ears. And for what it's worth, your scenario was made possible by Bates convincing Shanny to go after Thomas. We didn't make any strong moves via the draft on Dline until Bates was here. Let's just hope the team has sense enough to continue in that direction.

[broncosfanscott]

Well, that experiment is over. Can honestly say I am not surprised, yet other coaches are to blame as well and need to get their act together.

[BANJOPICKER1]

Dont worry,,Shanny is already looking at the Browns for a new guy,no worrys!:laugh:

[Hawgdriver]

OUTSTANDING!!!! I say Shanahan and Bowlen have someone good in mind to replace him, otherwise they probably would have given him one more season.

Yeah, last year his name was Jim Bates. I hope the Broncos at worst did no harm. I wouldn't be surprised if we go from 31st to 32nd next year, but I'll remain positive about the successor. This turmoil on defense won't help win championships...but neither will Jim Bates, apparently.


Jaded SOH (single orange horse) seeks SDC (single defensive coordinator) who is new and exciting...who's willing to adventure a little...

The Broncos need to put a stop to all these one-night stands.

But I still have faith in Ted, Mike, and Pat, and I'll go where they lead.

[dogfish]

Jaded SOH (single orange horse) seeks SDC (single defensive coordinator) who is new and exciting...who's willing to adventure a little...


you forgot to add "willingness to work with crappy front seven a must". . .

[Simple Jaded]

Until Shanny says it, I'm assuming the Slowik reference was a writer putting his own assumptions into the artice. Yes, Slowik is the de-facto "Head of Defense" until proven otherwise.

But it could be proven otherwise in very short order.

~G



I hope you're right, cause Slowik SUCKS!!!!!!

Doesn't really matter, Shanahan will no doubt wipe his ass with Slowik this time next year.

Dead Coordinator walking......

[omac]

I hope if Rex Ryan doesn't get picked up as a head coach for Baltimore that he considers going here. I know our guys don't play 3-4, but we were willing to make a drastic change in the way we did things when we brought in Bates, so maybe nows a good a time as any.

If he fixes one of the worst defenses in the league in Denver, other teams will look at him as a really good head coach candidate.

[TXBRONC]

I hope you're right, cause Slowik SUCKS!!!!!!

Doesn't really matter, Shanahan will no doubt wipe his ass with Slowik this time next year.

Dead Coordinator walking......

Slowik might not become the defensive coordinator. Hell it might be the defensive line coach who moves up to defensive coordinator.

[Bronco9798]

I believe you all are not seeing this thing like I am. Slowik is in charge of the Defense and is the DC. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think this is the only move we'll see as far as the DC position. It is Slowik, period. maybe I'm wrong, who knows.

[Lonestar]

They were playing from behind because they couldn't get a lead.

They couldn't get it in the end-zone.

By the end of the year they were throwing it from the 21 trying to score rather than trying to get INTO the red-zone because their efforts inside the 10 were so pathetic.

Yes, they had injury issues, and doped-up RB issues, and youngsters.

But the play-calling in critical situations was atrocious - carrying on a problem from the previous season.

We better get that fixed. Cutler had 3500 yards, Marshall had 100 catches, our running game was top-10 in ypg and top 5 in ypc...

And we were abysmal at putting early points on the board or closing teams out late, and sustaining success throughout the game was beyond us.

We need more talent on the OL, and more health, but I'd hate to see Shanahan scape-goat the injury bug and ignore the 2 year dearth of critical play-calls that have dogged us.

Special Teams and Defense both had coaches that let them down...and so did the offense.

~G

if it was not for elam we could have had a 2-14 season..

No ability to score consistently inside the ten dooms you to FG when the other team is scoring TD's..

[dogfish]

I believe you all are not seeing this thing like I am. Slowik is in charge of the Defense and is the DC. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think this is the only move we'll see as far as the DC position. It is Slowik, period. maybe I'm wrong, who knows.




i HOPE you're wrong, but unfortunately that's how i'm reading it as well. . . . :mad:

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Definitely worth the change then...

[hamrob]

Either way, we can get away from Bates' crap. I'm on board for praying Ellis slides to us. Him and Thomas can be nasty together.Why Ellis? I don't see it with him. He's 6'1" 280 and has limited growth potential. Do you really think he translates well to the Pros?

I'd rather not take the chance. Not with the LB depth and the potential for a quality Tackle or Phillips in the 1st round.

[Lonestar]

Hemmerdinger? What has he given us in his tenure? I really can't see his effect on anything? (I realize, it's Shanny's offense.)


I think he was the prime mover fro getting JAy and the other players last year in the draft and bates was the mover and shaker for last years Defensive fest..

Both were very untyipcal for mikey to do..

I'll bet this year we suck in the draft or should I refer to it as mikeys DAFT, with noone to reign him in it is back to him alone calling the shots..

God I hope I'm wrong here..

[Lonestar]

Yeah, last year his name was Jim Bates. I hope the Broncos at worst did no harm. I wouldn't be surprised if we go from 31st to 32nd next year, but I'll remain positive about the successor. This turmoil on defense won't help win championships...but neither will Jim Bates, apparently.



The Broncos need to put a stop to all these one-night stands.

But I still have faith in Ted, Mike, and Pat, and I'll go where they lead.


you forgot to add "willingness to work with crappy front seven a must". . .

Add to that have ability to live down being the scape goat guy after one season..

[Bronco9798]

i HOPE you're wrong, but unfortunately that's how i'm reading it as well. . . . :mad:

Yeah, its obvious to me. It's all Slowiks. I see people still throwing names out there. I don't think that is the case. It's Slowiks show now.

[BOSSHOGG30]

What a slap in the face now that I think about if for Bates. Please tell me Denver didn't really think the guy would be able to make this defense good over night. It kind of bothers me to see this happen because it really leaves me to believe that our organization has no idea what they are doing. We are changing defensive coordinators about as much as Kenny Lofton changes baseball teams. What ever happened to the stability that we use to pride ourselves on? We need to hire ourselves a guy and stick with him for awhile. It really bothers me that they bring in a highly respected man like Bates and then things don't work out after only one year and then they have the nerve to ask him if he wants to be the linebackers coach. What the hell! Come on Denver get your **** together.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

aGREED, I wasn't on teh fire bates wagon for just that reason. We gave away Warren and that upset me, it was for the system. Now we abandon that and have no Warren.

[Simple Jaded]

Slowik might not become the defensive coordinator. Hell it might be the defensive line coach who moves up to defensive coordinator.


I believe you all are not seeing this thing like I am. Slowik is in charge of the Defense and is the DC. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think this is the only move we'll see as far as the DC position. It is Slowik, period. maybe I'm wrong, who knows.


I don't know, TX, I'm seeing the same thing as Bronco9798.

If so, this will fail miserably and then it might be time for a change at the top.

Slowik SUCKS!!!!!! If a Coordinator as accomplished as Bates can't do anything with this defense, what can we expect from a Nobody like Slowik?

If all you want to do is blitz from the time you get off the bus, you should've just kept Coyer!

This is a terrible decision......

[TXBRONC]

I don't know, TX, I'm seeing the same thing as Bronco9798.

If so, this will fail miserably and then it might be time for a change at the top.

Slowik SUCKS!!!!!! If a Coordinator as accomplished as Bates can't do anything with this defense, what can we expect from a Nobody like Slowik?

This is a terrible decision......

All I'm saying is this based on an article by Bill Williamson, who hasn't been the most reliable source information in the past.

[Lonestar]

I don't know, TX, I'm seeing the same thing as Bronco9798.

If so, this will fail miserably and then it might be time for a change at the top.

Slowik SUCKS!!!!!! If a Coordinator as accomplished as Bates can't do anything with this defense, what can we expect from a Nobody like Slowik?

If all you want to do is blitz from the time you get off the bus, you could've just kept Coyer!

This is a terrible decision......

a nobody Db coach in GB who did not have a great rep..

Mikey hired another butt kisser..


Now he is surrounded with them, all is well in Broncoville..

[Simple Jaded]

a nobody Db coach in GB who did not have a great rep..

Mikey hired another butt kisser..


Now he is surrounded with them, all is well in Broncoville..


I kinda think so too, this is nothing more than Shanahan hiring a guy that'll do it exactly the way Shanahan wants it.

But Shanahan would've been better off making himself the DC, I am certain he'd be better than Slowik......Slowik SUCKS!!!!!!

No doubt the Broncos will be adding more Montae Reagor's!

Yah! Sedrick Ellis AND Marcus Thomas!!!!!! Whoot, Whoot! :rolleyes:

Championship......

[Timmy!]

YES! What a great early birthday present. No Slowik please.

[Lonestar]

I kinda think so too, this is nothing more than Shanahan hiring a guy that'll do it exactly the way Shanahan wants it.

But Shanahan would've been better off making himself the DC, I am certain he'd be better than Slowik......Slowik SUCKS!!!!!!

No doubt the Broncos will be adding more Montae Reagor's!

Yah! Sedrick Ellis AND Marcus Thomas!!!!!! Whoot, Whoot! :rolleyes:

Championship......


actually Monte played pretty damned good for INDY..

another of mikeys mistakes he drafted the kid and never gave him playing time in the 4 years he was here because they had old expensive FA vets in place..

[claymore]

If Pat Bowlen has the chance to bring in a telented coordinator that matches up with our Defensive personell I think he will. But I believe Slowik is the best chance we have right now. Plus he knows the players, they respect him etc.............

I like the fact that they swapped LB coach as well. Maybe tackling will be higher on Ryans list.


According to an NFL source, the Broncos also reassigned linebackers coach Joe Baker and are expected to replace him with Jim Ryan, a 10-year Denver linebacker who has been an assistant coach since 2005. Ronnie Bradford, a 10-year NFL defensive back and former University of Colorado star, is expected to receive a promotion to replace Slowik as defensive backs coach.
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_7916530

[WARHORSE]

Slowick is the guy and Im thinking this will be a pretty good defensive team if we can get some help on the Dline.

One thing Shanahan believes in is coaches learning as they go. As a a veteran of that type of mindset, Shanahan can and will put his trust in the hands of a man who shows himself able to learn.



Looks like Slowick fits that picture.

[Bronco9798]

If Pat Bowlen has the chance to bring in a telented coordinator that matches up with our Defensive personell I think he will. But I believe Slowik is the best chance we have right now. Plus he knows the players, they respect him etc.............

I like the fact that they swapped LB coach as well. Maybe tackling will be higher on Ryans list.

We have our Coordinator. His name is Slowik.

[NightTrainLayne]

We have our Coordinator. His name is Slowik.

Yep, that's the only way to read it. . .God help us.

[Bronco9798]

Yep, that's the only way to read it. . .God help us.

I know, people still running around here wanting this guy and that guy. I just shake my head. WTF are they thinking?

[BOSSHOGG30]

Should I go ahead and start a thread titled: Wonder who will take Slowik's spot in 2009?

[Bronco9798]

NTL already started a Fire Slowik thread.

[slim]

Good Lord...why all the doom and gloom. Give Slowik a chance. Based on everything I have heard about him, he runs an more of an attack style defense. So we can expect to see ALOT more blitzing. I think that is a good thing. Also, maybe now we can fully utilize the talents of a guy like Marcus Thomas.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Good Lord...why all the doom and gloom. Give Slowik a chance. Based on everything I have heard about him, he runs an more of an attack style defense. So we can expect to see ALOT more blitzing. I think that is a good thing. Also, maybe now we can fully utilize the talents of a guy like Marcus Thomas.

Slowik can't be any worse than Bates... (I hope anyways), but it really isn't anything against Slowik... it is more against the organization as a whole... How many defensive coordinators are we going to go through before we actually stick to one and give him time to groom the defense?

[Bronco9798]

Slowik can't be any worse than Bates... (I hope anyways), but it really isn't anything against Slowik... it is more against the organization as a whole... How many defensive coordinators are we going to go through before we actually stick to one and give him time to groom the defense?

I guess if they would do their job we wouldn't be going thru this. PRODUCE RESULTS and yes, you may keep your job. Screw it up, and out you go.

[Watchthemiddle]

Slowik can't be any worse than Bates... (I hope anyways), but it really isn't anything against Slowik... it is more against the organization as a whole... How many defensive coordinators are we going to go through before we actually stick to one and give him time to groom the defense?

I agree. This revoloving door at DC doesn't do anything for anyone. System after system after system...there is no stability anywhere.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Slowik can't be any worse than Bates... (I hope anyways), but it really isn't anything against Slowik... it is more against the organization as a whole... How many defensive coordinators are we going to go through before we actually stick to one and give him time to groom the defense?

Agreed. A lightbulb should have gone off in Shanny's head when Bates wanted to get rid of Warren and start Amon Gordon because Warren didn't fit or want to fit in Bates scheme.

I really think that Shanny turned over the defense, and defensive front seven personnel decisions over to Bates which doesn't seem like Shanny's modus operandi. With Slowik as the DC, Shanny is wanting more control.

Shanny's biggest weakness, as I've said over and over, is his lack of patience. If the defense struggles, Slowik will be gone and they'll be looking for another guy for 2009.

I'm not a fire Shanny guy, but Bowlen should really pay attention to the offseason and next year and see if Shanny has the same impact to the players and coaches as he once did. Coaches can become stagnant and their methods (and playcalling) can grow old.

[NightTrainLayne]

I will hope for the best, but Slowik's track record as a DC is infinitely worse than Bates' was.

This year I have really grown to detest Slowiks use of our corners, playing them so far off the line in order to see the play develop and supposedly make plays on the ball. However, how many ints did our CBs have this year? I think teams took advantage of this all year.

If our Dline can improve and play at a much higher level this technique might be much more appropriate. Slowik's success and/or failure will depend on the Dline as much as Bates' failure did.

We'll see. Hopefully I'm wrong, and hopefully our offense can start putting up 30 points a game and take some of the pressure off the defense. . .but if 16 point 4th quarter leads aren't safe then I don't know how many the O will have to score to win for us, unless the D really improves.

[G_Money]

Good Lord...why all the doom and gloom. Give Slowik a chance. Based on everything I have heard about him, he runs an more of an attack style defense. So we can expect to see ALOT more blitzing. I think that is a good thing. Also, maybe now we can fully utilize the talents of a guy like Marcus Thomas.

Yes, he does blitz more (or at least he did). He likes the blitz. So how effective was his style?

Slowik ran GB's 2004 D.

It ranked:

- 25th in total yards allowed
- 14th in rush yards
- 25th in pass yards (31st in opp. passer rating)
- 23rd in points

I already posted how historically bad it was in Green Bay history earlier on this thread, but to recap:


Record --------------Slowik Record---Broken Record
Fewest Opponent Turnovers, Season 15 16 (1995)
Fewest Passes Intercepted By, Season 8 13 (1980, 1995, 1998)
Fewest Forced Fumbles, Season 11 12 (1995)
Most First Downs Allowed, Passing, Season 228 188 (1995)
Most Yards Allowed, Net Passing, Season 3,943 3,762 (1983)
Most Yards Allowed, Passing, Game 464 448 (2004)
Most TD Allowed Passing, Season 33 31 (1986)
Highest Opponents' Passer Rating, Season 99.1 86.1 (1958)


He was the DC for Cleveland in 1999.

It ranked:

- 31st in total yards allowed
- 31st (thats DEAD LAST) in rush yards at almost 500 yards worse than the next worst team (tied for last in ypc at 4.5)
- 11th in pass yards (but 31st in pass completion %)
- 29th in points

Those are his two one-year stints at DC in the last decade (before getting the title but apparently not the job with us last season).

Both were historically bad jobs after which he was summarily fired. :shocked:

His record doesn't exactly speak to the ability to get the most out of his players or shut down the other team.

Here's hoping he's learned something...somewhere...

~G

[Bronco9798]

Let the past go. Bates had a great rep in Miami and GB, look what he did here. He set us back, not forward. Slowik gets a clean slate now. Let's see what he can do.

[NightTrainLayne]

Let the past go. Bates had a great rep in Miami and GB, look what he did here. He set us back, not forward. Slowik gets a clean slate now. Let's see what he can do.

Do you have a copy of Shanny's pre-prepared remarks for tomorrow's presser or what?

[atwater27]

I bet Slowik is the token "defensive coordinator" until we sign someone else.

[G_Money]

Honestly, if Slowik really does have the job then I'm looking forward to seeing the personnel used differently.

I WANT more blitzes. I want more stunts. I want different coverages, press and off. I want to show the opposing QB different things. It should at least help us see what we actually have on defense, and what need areas we have that aren't obfuscated by running just one type of scheme. It should be an interesting contrast and compare with the Bates Method, at least.

Bob's record doesn't suggest a guy who confuses the other team's QB, and he's had problems with both the pass and the run in previous stints. He had to give up the blitz in GB, so I'm not really sure what D he'll run here.

But he has to know that whatever he ran the last two times didn't work. From 1999 to 2004 he had time to come up with a better plan, and his team went from getting destroyed by the run to getting destroyed by the pass.

Maybe this time is the time he puts it together, at least enough for us to win. I have all offseason to dream that it's so.

~G

[CoachChaz]

Seems like his old defensive schemes became predictable. if he can insert the element of suprise into his schemes, then he can create some confusion.
________
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[NightTrainLayne]

I bet Slowik is the token "defensive coordinator" until we sign someone else.

I don't think they would be shuffling the other assistants right now if they were going to hire someone else. If they were looking for someone else I'm guessing they'd wait to see what assistants the new guy wanted to bring in.

That's why I said earlier that there's really no other way to read this news. Slowik is the new "head" of the defense.

[Bronco9798]

I don't think they would be shuffling the other assistants right now if they were going to hire someone else. If they were looking for someone else I'm guessing they'd wait to see what assistants the new guy wanted to bring in.

That's why I said earlier that there's really no other way to read this news. Slowik is the new "head" of the defense.

It's been repeated and repeated. It's so obvious. People just fail to see it.

[underrated29]

I will give slow a chance. I happen to be a fan of sending 5. Esp. with our corners. If he want them to have a cushion thats fine. Champ had like 10 ints when he was able to see the play.

Buton 3rd and short they need to be right up there in the mans face. Give them no room to run or throw.

[Bronco9798]

Here's of my opinion of what happened.

Bates was the head of the defense. Slowik was the DC last year. You had two guys wanting to do different things. It's probably what some of the problem was this past year. Two guys trying to run a defense with two different styles. Of course, Slowik had to go with what Bates said. Slowik tells Shanny behind doors that he can't run this system. We need to make changes. Shanny agrees, they throw out Bate system after week 6 and gradually play a system more familiar with Slowik.

Shanny now sees he can't have a guy who runs the defense another called the DC. He likes Slowiks style better and is now going with Slowik as the DC this year. One person, one scheme.

In a nutshell, that's what I say happened.

[shank]

Shanny agrees, they throw out Bate system after week 6 and gradually play a system more familiar with Slowik.

because we all saw how successful the adjusted scheme was!

i'm definitley not happy that we didn't give bates another year and i too see it as weakness in our management and believe it WILL hurt us in the future. rhodes and coyer had statistically solid defenses with a couple (albeit glaring) problems and were shown the door. despite these problems we still were winning football games. bates comes in as a highly touted mind, is given quite a bit of control (but there were more than 1 offseason's worth of changes to be made) and put into a situation of failure. the fact that we abandoned his scheme only to find very limited success shows that bates wasn't the problem! it was our players underperforming regardless of assignment.

i am worried about what this means for the future as far as aquiring players because it seems that they didn't want to go another offseason getting defensive players for bates to work with and slowik offered to run the defense with what we have currently or with few changes. we need new bodies and i fear that we won't get them now; and don't see many good coaches wanting to come here from now on unless we already have the exact personel they need to succeed.

[CoachChaz]

...if true, shouldn't Shanny have seen that neither system worked?
________
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[Bronco9798]

...if true, shouldn't Shanny have seen that neither system worked?

I agree, i just think Shanny preferred Slowiks style over Bates. I think Shanny always had Slowik in mind to run this defense eventually, not Bates. Slowik was being set up (in a good way) to succeed Bates. It just happened sooner than expected.

[slim]

Yes, he does blitz more (or at least he did). He likes the blitz. So how effective was his style?

Slowik ran GB's 2004 D.

It ranked:

- 25th in total yards allowed
- 14th in rush yards
- 25th in pass yards (31st in opp. passer rating)
- 23rd in points

I already posted how historically bad it was in Green Bay history earlier on this thread, but to recap:




He was the DC for Cleveland in 1999.

It ranked:

- 31st in total yards allowed
- 31st (thats DEAD LAST) in rush yards at almost 500 yards worse than the next worst team (tied for last in ypc at 4.5)
- 11th in pass yards (but 31st in pass completion %)
- 29th in points

Those are his two one-year stints at DC in the last decade (before getting the title but apparently not the job with us last season).

Both were historically bad jobs after which he was summarily fired. :shocked:

His record doesn't exactly speak to the ability to get the most out of his players or shut down the other team.

Here's hoping he's learned something...somewhere...

~G

Yeah, not a great track record. But some of those were REALLY bad teams. I think that Cleveland team was 2-14.

He had some success his first two years in Chicago, but really trailed off the final few years there. But those teams were largely bereft of talent, IIRC. So, was he part of the problem? IDK, maybe. He certainly wasn't the solution.

BTW, they brought Bates into GB (2005) to replace Slowik and the defense was only marginally better under Bates (looking at points allowed). Not really sure what that means, just thought it was interesting.

[NightTrainLayne]

Yeah, not a great track record. But some of those were REALLY bad teams. I think that Cleveland team was 2-14.

He had some success his first two years in Chicago, but really trailed off the final few years there. But those teams were largely bereft of talent, IIRC. So, was he part of the problem? IDK, maybe. He certainly wasn't the solution.

BTW, they brought Bates into GB (2005) to replace Slowik and the defense was only marginally better under Bates (looking at points allowed). Not really sure what that means, just thought it was interesting.

Didn't GB's defense jump up into the top ten or something after he took over? I'm pretty sure it improved rather dramatically.

[slim]

Didn't GB's defense jump up into the top ten or something after he took over? I'm pretty sure it improved rather dramatically.

Yeah, in yards per game. But I was only looking at points per game. They went from 23rd under Slowik to 20th under Bates (I think).

[broncofanatic1987]

Here's of my opinion of what happened.

Bates was the head of the defense. Slowik was the DC last year. You had two guys wanting to do different things. It's probably what some of the problem was this past year. Two guys trying to run a defense with two different styles. Of course, Slowik had to go with what Bates said. Slowik tells Shanny behind doors that he can't run this system. We need to make changes. Shanny agrees, they throw out Bate system after week 6 and gradually play a system more familiar with Slowik.

Shanny now sees he can't have a guy who runs the defense another called the DC. He likes Slowiks style better and is now going with Slowik as the DC this year. One person, one scheme.

In a nutshell, that's what I say happened.

You could be right, but Shanahan should have seen that problem coming before he hired Bates. If Slowik fails to produce a good defense this year, Shanahan should be headed out the door right after Slowik in 2009.

My guess is that Bates didn't have complete control over personnel decisions and was handicapped when Gerard Warren was traded. Warren should have been told that he better get off his butt and get the job done or they would let him rot on the bench. Warren might not have liked the system because he wasn't going to get all of the sexy stats that he wanted, but he probably would have played well enough to give the defense a chance to be good. It takes talent to run a scheme like Bates' because it relies on execution rather than confusing formations and blitzes. Without Warren, the Broncos didn't have the talent at the tackle position to execute the defense. It also didn't help that another former first round pick in Jimmy Kennedy didn't workout either, but the Broncos should have seen that coming since he wasn't good against the run in St. Louis either.

I'm not happy that Bates was fired after only one year, but I hope Slowik can get the job done. Even though he hasn't been able to do it anywhere else before. Maybe things will be different in Denver for him.

[slim]

You could be right, but Shanahan should have seen that problem coming before he hired Bates. If Slowik fails to produce a good defense this year, Shanahan should be headed out the door right after Slowik in 2009.

My guess is that Bates didn't have complete control over personnel decisions and was handicapped when Gerard Warren was traded. Warren should have been told that he better get off his butt and get the job done or they would let him rot on the bench. Warren might not have liked the system because he wasn't going to get all of the sexy stats that he wanted, but he probably would have played well enough to give the defense a chance to be good. It takes talent to run a scheme like Bates' because it relies on execution rather than confusing formations and blitzes. Without Warren, the Broncos didn't have the talent at the tackle position to execute the defense. It also didn't help that another former first round pick in Jimmy Kennedy didn't workout either, but the Broncos should have seen that coming since he wasn't good against the run in St. Louis either.

I'm not happy that Bates was fired after only one year, but I hope Slowik can get the job done. Even though he hasn't been able to do it anywhere else before. Maybe things will be different in Denver for him.

I completely disagree with this. Bates was given free reign over the defense. All of the acquistions that were made (including the draft and trade of Warren) were done at his urging.

Here, read this. http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_7916530

[CoachChaz]

You could be right, but Shanahan should have seen that problem coming before he hired Bates. If Slowik fails to produce a good defense this year, Shanahan should be headed out the door right after Slowik in 2009.



Couldn't agree with this more. If Slowik fails, I think Shanny has done enough to prove that he is no longer capable of running the show.
________
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[Skinny]

"I won't be playing a down," Bates said. "It's going to be the Denver Broncos defense. All I am is the head with a bunch of great coaches who put it all together. I'll be the decision maker, but the end result will be how our guys on the field come together as a Denver Broncos defense."

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_5796213

[BigDaddyBronco]

Couldn't agree with this more. If Slowik fails, I think Shanny has done enough to prove that he is no longer capable of running the show.
If Slowik fails, then Bowlen should have a nice long talk with Shanny and introduce the idea of a real GM. If Shanny balks then Bowlen should look to change the organization.

[Bronco9798]

You could be right, but Shanahan should have seen that problem coming before he hired Bates. If Slowik fails to produce a good defense this year, Shanahan should be headed out the door right after Slowik in 2009.

My guess is that Bates didn't have complete control over personnel decisions and was handicapped when Gerard Warren was traded. Warren should have been told that he better get off his butt and get the job done or they would let him rot on the bench. Warren might not have liked the system because he wasn't going to get all of the sexy stats that he wanted, but he probably would have played well enough to give the defense a chance to be good. It takes talent to run a scheme like Bates' because it relies on execution rather than confusing formations and blitzes. Without Warren, the Broncos didn't have the talent at the tackle position to execute the defense. It also didn't help that another former first round pick in Jimmy Kennedy didn't workout either, but the Broncos should have seen that coming since he wasn't good against the run in St. Louis either.

I'm not happy that Bates was fired after only one year, but I hope Slowik can get the job done. Even though he hasn't been able to do it anywhere else before. Maybe things will be different in Denver for him.

I believe you were the one that asked me if I was in on Shanny's conversations with Bates when I said it was Bates that made the changes with Warren and bringing the people in we did. Read that article that was posted in the Denver Post and I think I was pretty accurate when I said that.

[NameUsedBefore]

I think Slowik is a pretty solid players coach, especially with defensive backs, but the guy has historically been a raw egg when it comes to being the head honcho. I still think this was a mistake on the part of Shanahan, but like others have said I think a lot of politics probably had something to do with it more than the abilities of Bates.

[shank]

I think Slowik is a pretty solid players coach, especially with defensive backs, but the guy has historically been a raw egg when it comes to being the head honcho. I still think this was a mistake on the part of Shanahan, but like others have said I think a lot of politics probably had something to do with it more than the abilities of Bates.

kind of like what (might of?) happened with coyer and his support of players that shanny wanted gone?

[slim]

You guys are right; there is probably a conspiracy here. Of course, the fact that this was the worst Broncos defense I can remember probably had nothing to do with it.

[NameUsedBefore]

I'm sure that plays a part, but I'd still say most coaches would've given Bates another year given the nature of how schemes are slowly implemented. Not to mention the players Bates was working with weren't exactly up to any high calibur to say the least.

[Lonestar]

I have not read much of the past days post here so IF I repeat what some one has already said It must mean we think alike..

I believe that Bates was brought in as a suggestion from above after years of yes men under mikey I truly believe that Pat whispered in his ear things have to change..

Mikey had already made slowlic DC so he he brought in Bates a proven commodity a Assistant Head Defensive Coach much like he did Humdinger.

Make no illusions that Bates did not have a huge impact on who was drafted last year because it was UNPRECEDENTED.. 75% of the players selected where DL. An area totally an after thought for the last decade on draft day let alone on DAY ONE..

dorsett davis 2002 #3 choice @ 96
toviesssi #2 2001 @ 51
hayward #3 2001 @ 87
reagor #2 1999 @ 58
pryce #1 1998 @ 28

two real players for this team in 10 years folks. One for INDY.

But Bates wanted more and they went shopping for DTs that are extraordinarily hard to find in FA, unless they are over the hill or misfits.

Great DT are drafted not found in someone crap pile.

So we got part of what we needed to build on for the year and had to do with leftovers for the most part for the rest of the DL. Were they Bates choices most likely, but from a less than deep talent pool. I think he tried real hard to make something out of not much.. Without solid DT play and the almost rookie force at DE this team we now know was doomed for failure.. Couple this with slowlic being in the middle causing problems undermining the real genius and whispering in mikeys ear about how he could do it better..

Couple that with a loss of a all pro MLB to injury it was just to much ground to make up in one year. Throw in trying to teach DJ the position, the disappearance of gold and Johns Injury and the hand writing was on the wall about the collapse of this defense..

Now this gave mikey a clear chance to get rid on another NON YES man in his closet and allow him to gain TOTAL control once again..

See Pat your idea about bringing in an outsider did not work again, it did not with Ray Rhodes a proven Defensive genius, former head coach PHL or now with Jim Bates a twice proven MIA/GB DC and interim HC in MIA.

Pat when are you gonna learn that I am the mastermind here and it has to be done my way.. Or the highway..

[Hawgdriver]

How nice would it be to be in the situation where we're not wondering how we'll make it through the morass of personnel and staff issues to a winning season, but instead looking forward to another chance for a Lombardi trophy.

In the words of Borat, "very nice."

I am trying to put the firing of Jim Bates in a context I can understand. I think it is a mistake to let the man go after being given only a year to make his vision a reality. But there is much more to it.

For starters, is it a 'political move' to take the heat away from Ted, Mike, and Pat? Has Bates been scapegoated a la Coyer?

It seems hard to imagine that Pat met with Mike and Ted, and asked, "so, why the losing season?" and Mike answered, "oh, boy, let me tell you about this guy Bates...boy, did he screw the pooch..." I mean, I don't think these guys are worried about keeping control, which is the usual motive for a scapegoating. Maintain control and defer blame...but I don't see that is the case here. I honestly don't think these guys are worried about the blame game. I guess I don't have any support for that, so make of it what you will.

I think it's more likely that they simply decided it could never work, even if given another year. Perhaps there was some underlying friction among the staff, players, and Bates, and things could only continue to get worse with that friction escalating (particularly among the staff, which would then trickle down to players.) Since this year left a bad taste in everyone's mouth, what better way to wipe that taste away than making sweeping changes? Prime the players and staff for a rebirth in the following year? I think there is some value in decisive personnel change, as long as it doesn't happen too often. The negative effect is that overall efficiency and results suffer from a drop in player expertise within a system, and have consistency issues.

But the power of that decisive change alone, without considering who the actual replacement is, might outweigh the negative effects. It sends a message throughout the organization that we need to see results now. No, we won't tolerate a year of crap, even if you have excuses. We accept no excuses, let your results speak. The Broncos have been consistent in applying this principle, which is good. However, if a coach is put in a position where it's impossible to actually succeed, then that approach can be quite disheartening for that coach.

Slowik offers something of a compromise, since he and the existing staff already have the framework of relationships with players. If the staff stays, then many of the position coaches will continue to groom young players. However, in many ways Slowik is still a symbol of the status quo.

Think about this: if the decision to fire Bates was really made during the bye week, and week 8-17 ball is what we'll get, then what does that say about Slowik's ability to turn poo into poo-ola?

The overall difference shows little change. Bates averaged about the same in yards per game allowed, but allowed more points. However, the teams in those first five weeks were stronger teams than Denver would face during the remainder of the season. If you look at the last five games of a "Slowik" defense, the Broncos allowed 23 pts per game, and 305 yds per game, but that average would be significantly higher without the KC game, in which Denver allowed 129 yards. Injuries played a factor. The transition mid season certainly didn't help. It appear that at worst, if the second half of the season is a glimpse of what Slowik will do, it's certainly no worse than Bates.

We need at least an above average defense to contend. Can Slowik do this? It would be much easier with someone at the point of attack that could disrupt the run, a leader to bring cohesion to this defense in transition, and improvements at the safety position. If we can find those players, then Slowik will look like a genius.

[Bronco9798]

He got fired cause his defense sucked. Bring on the next guy now.

[mclark]

Bates was fired because he did a lousy job. Yes, he didn't have all the players he wanted. What DC does? You do your job with what you have to work with, you make adjustments, you exhibit improvements even if you don't have the best personnel -- and when you do it as badly as Bates did you can't cry when you get fired. Time to move on.

***

I read on this board yesterday that Champ Bailey called Bob Slowik the 'best coach he's ever seen.'

Today I ran across this article on the collapse of a Chicago Bears' defense.

"LB Brian Cox, who remains close to former Bears defensive coordinator Bob Slowik, said coaching was never the problem. He said Slowik is as brilliant a defensive mind as Jets defensive coordinator Bill Belichick, a man with twice the reputation."

___

I remember at Green Bay, the secondary players mutinied against Slowik because he blitzed on about every play. Apparently they felt he was hanging them out to dry and they were getting burned to regularly.

----

It's kind of hard to know what we get in Slowik, the great teacher who positive affected Chamb and Cox so much, or the blitz happy fool who was driven out of Green Bay.

At least, I hope, we are done with the passive ball controll defense that used to pray that they could hold opponents to a field goal most of the times the other team took possession of the ball.

[Simple Jaded]

Brian Cox is full of sht!!!!!!

[DenBronx]

I read on this board yesterday that Champ Bailey called Bob Slowik the 'best coach he's ever seen.'

I remember at Green Bay, the secondary players mutinied against Slowik because he blitzed on about every play. Apparently they felt he was hanging them out to dry and they were getting burned to regularly.




sounds like a controdiction to me. it's hard to belive that champ would say that because theres nothing special about slowik. i would hate it if he were to become the DC. if players have rallied against him in the past then they are bound to do it again....please shanny fire slowik. if your going to fire bates then slowik must go too. start fresh with some new aggressive leaders and play callers.

[DenBronx]

i know i'm double posting but i just cant get over the reports that slowik is going to take over as DC. this is a nightmare people....might as well pack it up for 2009 then. this sucks....


...with all the aggressive candidates out there you would think that shanahan would pull the trigger to get one. this team is soft on defense and needs a coach with some nasty in him.

coyer was bad
bates was horrible
and slowik is terrible.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I hope we blitz every play. It'll be a nice change.

[DenBronx]

I hope we blitz every play. It'll be a nice change.

we will get eatin alive by teams like the pats and colts....not smart at all. we have to get an elite front 4 or this is never going to work.

[slim]

sounds like a controdiction to me. it's hard to belive that champ would say that because theres nothing special about slowik. i would hate it if he were to become the DC. if players have rallied against him in the past then they are bound to do it again....please shanny fire slowik. if your going to fire bates then slowik must go too. start fresh with some new aggressive leaders and play callers.

Oh, Champ said it. No question about it.

I don't see what all the hubbub is about. Bates didn't get it done. Now it's Slowiks chance. We'll see what he can do. Seriously, you can't tell me he will be worse than Bates.

[Skinny]

...with all the aggressive candidates out there you would think that shanahan would pull the trigger to get one. this team is soft on defense and needs a coach with some nasty in him.Who would want to go to Denver with a one year window though DB?? What candidates?? I'm curious to see who is available and would actually be willing to take the DC job ...

Mikey probably really did'nt have no choice but to promote from within ... again (Coyer) ...

If we're talking about looking at a LB Coach or a Secondary, D-line Coach we're probably better off with someone who has some knowledge of what we do have and some cohesiveness with the current Staff and players.

At least with Slowik, all the time that Bates spent evaluating talent in camp and Pre-Season can be spent on alignments, coverages, blitz packages, etc ...

[SmilinAssasSin27]

we will get eatin alive by teams like the pats and colts....not smart at all. we have to get an elite front 4 or this is never going to work.

But MAYBE we'd be able to beat teams like the Lions and Bears...MAYBE!

[WARHORSE]

If we keep the offense where its at, but pick up an extra Otackle and RB in FA, then I hope we can use the entire draft on defense, with the exception of one pick that possibly goes to any position where we think a stud is there for taking. Let a return man come from a defensive position. Then, let Shanny spend alot of time working with the defense.


That would help Slowick be a success......we do want him to be a success dont we?


I hope hes the most successful DC we've ever had.

[Lonestar]

If we keep the offense where its at, but pick up an extra Otackle and RB in FA, then I hope we can use the entire draft on defense, with the exception of one pick that possibly goes to any position where we think a stud is there for taking. Let a return man come from a defensive position. Then, let Shanny spend alot of time working with the defense.


That would help Slowick be a success......we do want him to be a success dont we?


I hope hes the most successful DC we've ever had.


under mikey that wil not be hard..

the bar is set real low..

[Skinny]

If we keep the offense where its at, but pick up an extra Otackle and RB in FA ...I would throw a WR in there too WAR ... just in case Javon's knee acts up again (if he still here). His absense really hendered the Offenses ability to stretch the feild and open things up for Jay in the passing game ... not to mention making Jay zone in on one receiver in BMarsh, a major factor in Marshall having 100 receptions ...

[gobroncsnv]

Oh, Champ said it. No question about it.

I don't see what all the hubbub is about. Bates didn't get it done. Now it's Slowiks chance. We'll see what he can do. Seriously, you can't tell me he will be worse than Bates.

I don't see how he will be better than Bates or Coyer if we don't get the LOS problems addressed. The DC's name won't matter until that gets fixed.

[TXBRONC]

I don't see how he will be better than Bates or Coyer if we don't get the LOS problems addressed. The DC's name won't matter until that gets fixed.

I agree, it's obvious that it wont matter who the defensive coordinator is if the defensive line win the battles at the line of scrimage on a consistant basis.

[G_Money]

For a positive slant at what looks like the start of the Slowik regime, look at it this way:

- Slowik likes to blitz. We have been an anti-blitz team the last two years and it's killed us, and we won our Super Bowls being a blitz-happy team.

- Generally the only way you beat a great QB is to put him on the turf a lot, because there isn't a QB alive who doesn't rattle when he gets pounded. The great QBs in the league right now all have great lines, so you're not gonna beat them playing straight up - we're gonna have to get QB pressure to win big, and we just haven't done that without blitzing. Some teams can - we never have.

- The defense is not huge, but the returning positions we have (CB with Bailey and Bly, LB with Williams and Winborn/Webster fighting over a slot, DL with Dumervil and Peterson and Marcus Thomas and Crowder) all have speed for their position.

- Speed doesn't win smash-mouth football, but it's great in a blitz package.

- We also have good man-to-man corners, which means you CAN leave them out on an island for most of the game without getting creamed. More pressure on the QB would lead to hurried throws and more INTs as well.

I'm down with the type of theoretical defense Slowik would run. I don't know that he's the man to run it here (in fact, I have oodles of doubts) but if Shanahan wants to reconstruct our championship teams with a great pass-catching TE, some great receivers, and a whole bunch of points from the offense letting the defense pin their ears back and tear into the opposing team's backfield, then I'm all for that.

Things we're missing to do that:

1) mega-back in the backfield. We won when TD was the best back in the league, not with a rotating scrub-a-thon at the position. We'll want to address this eventually, unless Young gets healthy and stays healthy with a lot more carries.

2) Better OL. We won when Zimm and Jones came here and John wasn't getting creamed every other play. I believe we'll address this in the off-season, both FA and the draft. We have to. Hopefully Harris really is the guy that Lepsis thinks he is, and we can add one or two more pieces to the front-line puzzle.

3) Ability to stop the run. You can't run-blitz the whole game, and the other team never HAS to throw if they can put together 17 play drives using the ground game like J-ville did to us this year. When the offense can't get on the field they can't score, so we have to be able to stop guys on 3rd and short. We should patch the LB core in the draft, I'm hoping (which would theoretically involve getting at least one LB who can fill a hole at the line of scrimmage instead of 5 yards downfield) but we're gonna HAVE to find a way to use the tackles we have and whatever we can scrape up to do at least a moderate job of stopping the ground game.

4) Safeties. If you force someone to throw the ball, then you need to be able to defend the pass. Paymah's proving to be a decent talent as a nickel back and we have LBs that can cover tight ends in the intermediate distance, but we need our roaming safeties to do damage, I'm not a fan of Hamza yet in the pass game, and even if Lynch comes back it's by far the weakest part of his game.

If we start addressing these issues in the offseason, installing a blitz-happy DC could work. The offense has to put TDs on the board, though, so don't forget:

5) SCORE IN THE RED ZONE, YOU LOBOTOMIZED GERBILS. Make 'Dinger stop brutalizing us inside the 20. We have to get those 7s instead of 3s. Otherwise WE'RE the ones playing from behind who become one-dimensional.

The blueprint from the last SBs can still work in the modern day. Offense hasn't changed that much, and the rules aren't that much worse (though they do hamper CBs quite a bit more now).

But we have to start following that blueprint. If installing a blitzing defense via Slowik's promotion is the first step in our new blueprint, fine - I can be patient and wait for the next steps. All I ask for is progress.

If it's just a sign that Shanny wants to move deck chairs on our sinking ship, then that's a different matter entirely.

Welcome to the offseason. March 11th is the start of the FA signing period, and the draft starts April 26th - feel free to mark your calendars accordingly. :D We have a lot more to see between now and May, so pull up a chair.

And you thought last year's FA market was an active place for us...

~G

[mclark]

Things we're missing to do that:

1) mega-back in the backfield. We won when TD was the best back in the league, not with a rotating scrub-a-thon at the position. We'll want to address this eventually, unless Young gets healthy and stays healthy with a lot more carries.

2) Better OL. We won when Zimm and Jones came here and John wasn't getting creamed every other play. I believe we'll address this in the off-season, both FA and the draft. We have to. Hopefully Harris really is the guy that Lepsis thinks he is, and we can add one or two more pieces to the front-line puzzle.

3) Ability to stop the run. You can't run-blitz the whole game, and the other team never HAS to throw if they can put together 17 play drives using the ground game like J-ville did to us this year. When the offense can't get on the field they can't score, so we have to be able to stop guys on 3rd and short. We should patch the LB core in the draft, I'm hoping (which would theoretically involve getting at least one LB who can fill a hole at the line of scrimmage instead of 5 yards downfield) but we're gonna HAVE to find a way to use the tackles we have and whatever we can scrape up to do at least a moderate job of stopping the ground game.

4) Safeties. If you force someone to throw the ball, then you need to be able to defend the pass. Paymah's proving to be a decent talent as a nickel back and we have LBs that can cover tight ends in the intermediate distance, but we need our roaming safeties to do damage, I'm not a fan of Hamza yet in the pass game, and even if Lynch comes back it's by far the weakest part of his game.

If we start addressing these issues in the offseason, installing a blitz-happy DC could work. The offense has to put TDs on the board, though, so don't forget:

5) SCORE IN THE RED ZONE, YOU LOBOTOMIZED GERBILS. Make 'Dinger stop brutalizing us inside the 20. We have to get those 7s instead of 3s. Otherwise WE'RE the ones playing from behind who become one-dimensional.

The blueprint from the last SBs can still work in the modern day. Offense hasn't changed that much, and the rules aren't that much worse (though they do hamper CBs quite a bit more now).

But we have to start following that blueprint. If installing a blitzing defense via Slowik's promotion is the first step in our new blueprint, fine - I can be patient and wait for the next steps. All I ask for is progress.

If it's just a sign that Shanny wants to move deck chairs on our sinking ship, then that's a different matter entirely.

Welcome to the offseason. March 11th is the start of the FA signing period, and the draft starts April 26th - feel free to mark your calendars accordingly. :D We have a lot more to see between now and May, so pull up a chair.

And you thought last year's FA market was an active place for us...

~G

1. Michael Turner as the mega-back.
2. Jonathan Ogden and Alan Faneca added to our offensive line via free agency.
3. Draft a DT, MLB, Safety (in best-available-player order).
Ellis, Demps, Ezra Butler, Beau Bell. Or
Phillips, Balmer or Pat Sims, Butler, Bell. Or
Laurinitis/Connor, Balmer or Pat Sims, Marcus Griffin....
4. See Phillips scenario above.
5. Turner running in the red zone behind re-made offensive line. Cutler rolling out and passing. Put in the moving pocket.

[G_Money]

1. Michael Turner as the mega-back.
2. Jonathan Ogden and Alan Faneca added to our offensive line via free agency.
3. Draft a DT, MLB, Safety (in best-available-player order).
Ellis, Demps, Ezra Butler, Beau Bell. Or
Phillips, Balmer or Pat Sims, Butler, Bell. Or
Laurinitis/Connor, Balmer or Pat Sims, Marcus Griffin....
4. See Phillips scenario above.
5. Turner running in the red zone behind re-made offensive line. Cutler rolling out and passing. Put in the moving pocket.

I like all of that, but the utter lack of a moving pocket the last couple of years is just inconceivable to me. Why do all boots have to be naked boots and rollouts provided with very little protection?

Just move the stupid pocket and let your QB get some space. It just doesn't seem to be any part of our current protection package though, and I think we're the poorer for it.

~G

[mclark]

I like all of that, but the utter lack of a moving pocket the last couple of years is just inconceivable to me. Why do all boots have to be naked boots and rollouts provided with very little protection?

Just move the stupid pocket and let your QB get some space. It just doesn't seem to be any part of our current protection package though, and I think we're the poorer for it.

~G

Couldn't agree more, especially when you have a smaller, more athletic offensive line. Keep them moving, giving them blocking angles on the bigger defenders. Especially, also, when your quarterback has about a 125 rating when throwing on the move outside of the pocket.