List your Pros and Cons of the 2009 Broncos

[Tned]

Ok, things are kind of slow, so why don't we list what we think the Broncos are doing well and what isn't going quite so well:

Pros:

Defense overall. Playing very well, getting turnovers at key times (prevent a score, following a Bronco turnover, etc)
Front seven. It isn't quite the 'garbage' that Mark Schereth and many others thought it would be. This front seven has been able to get pressure in nearly every game.
Smart QB play, very few mistakes.
Buckhalter being more productive than I expected.
Pass protection. Ok, after the Baltimore game this might be questioned, but in the first six games an immobile Orton has had lots of time to throw the ball.
Variety of play calling. While most of it has been of the short passing variety, the play calling has been changed up from week to week, such as which WR seems to be 'featured' each week (this could also be which WR is given to the Broncos by the defense, based on them 'taking away' other WRs in the game).
McDaniels not afraid to show his emotion. He clearly knows football and has the team running well, but he also isn't afraid to act his age -- a 33 year old who has had his dream come true.
Prior to Baltimore, the defense completely shutting down opponents ability to convert third downs in the second half.


Cons:

Lack of mid-to-deep passing threat, allowing defenses to clog the short lanes.
Ineffective short yardage runs, whether on the goal line, in the redzone or between the 20's.
Seemingly unprepared and lacking intensity in the Baltimore game.
Three punt/kick off returns in last two games.
Sub par punting by two different punters.
Return game (other than Royal's two returns for TDs in SD)


Ok, ran out of steam on the Cons,and I know there are some more, but that can get us started.

What are your pros and cons through the first seven games?

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Pros:

Defense! We finally seem to have one again. I love that they get pressure on the QB and cause turnovers and that they play with intensity.

It's not the same old, same old. You really don't know what to expect from week to week and at any given time we could win or lose. The newness is just kind of fun.

Cons:

The offense still hasn't come into its own. It seems like guys like Marshall, Royal, and Scheff who we all saw make big plays last year just aren't getting their chance in the new scheme. They've become "average". The O-line appears to be having problems adjusting to the new scheme, too. They just aren't as dominant as they were last year.

STs. Even though Eddie Royal had a huge game vs the Chargers, we've given up STs TDs in two consecutive games - not good. Prater has only been okay this year and Berger doesn't seem to be any better than Kern, and with less leg. I don't know how to fix the STs because it's been a mystery for years, but this is still our achilles heel.

[broncophan]

looks like you have most of the things covered.....

Pros:

We are 6-1
We have a 2 + game lead in the division
Dumerville is having a helluva season
We have a "leader" as a coach.....who has high expectations from his players
Not alot of injuries.....for the most part
Did I mention that we are 6-1?

Cons:

Still have a tough schedule ahead of us..
Still need to get Royal and others involved more on offense

[underrated29]

cons:

1. we have only 3 running plays.
2. we seem to refuse to attack vertically
3. the new block scheme (our guys arent built for it), i thought we did things to our players strengths, not what the coaches infuse us to do?
4. predictablility on offense. VERY PREDICTABLE!
5. Punter- he will get a blocked punt for a td against pitts

6. running the 5-2 as our base Defense. The middle is wide open and will get exploited soon!
7. lack of pressure without blitzing
8. the power run game, when teams strait up blast us, they get through.


PROS:
Everything i listed above as a Con, can be fixed!! And most relatively easily.

I just hope the coaches see the same thing I do, and opposing teams do.

[Dreadnought]

cons:

1. we have only 3 running plays.
2. we seem to refuse to attack vertically
3. the new block scheme (our guys arent built for it), i thought we did things to our players strengths, not what the coaches infuse us to do?
4. predictablility on offense. VERY PREDICTABLE!
5. Punter- he will get a blocked punt for a td against pitts

6. running the 5-2 as our base Defense. The middle is wide open and will get exploited soon!
7. lack of pressure without blitzing
8. the power run game, when teams strait up blast us, they get through.


PROS:
Everything i listed above as a Con, can be fixed!! And most relatively easily.

I just hope the coaches see the same thing I do, and opposing teams do.


I mostly agree, though I'm not convinced we can attack vertically. Add to the Cons our offense is very slow out of the gate most games. I'm not sure if its poor preparation or poor game planning. Also, whle I am delighted to see us play with some fire -esp. on defense - being such an emotional team is a sword that cuts both ways. If we string a couple of losses together it could all go badly south on us.

[Buff]

Pros:

Offense, Defense, Coaching

Cons:

Special Teams

[Iron Horse72]

Ok, things are kind of slow, so why don't we list what we think the Broncos are doing well and what isn't going quite so well:

Pros:

Defense overall. Playing very well, getting turnovers at key times (prevent a score, following a Bronco turnover, etc)
Front seven. It isn't quite the 'garbage' that Mark Schereth and many others thought it would be. This front seven has been able to get pressure in nearly every game.
Smart QB play, very few mistakes.
Buckhalter being more productive than I expected.
Pass protection. Ok, after the Baltimore game this might be questioned, but in the first six games an immobile Orton has had lots of time to throw the ball.
Variety of play calling. While most of it has been of the short passing variety, the play calling has been changed up from week to week, such as which WR seems to be 'featured' each week (this could also be which WR is given to the Broncos by the defense, based on them 'taking away' other WRs in the game).
McDaniels not afraid to show his emotion. He clearly knows football and has the team running well, but he also isn't afraid to act his age -- a 33 year old who has had his dream come true.
Prior to Baltimore, the defense completely shutting down opponents ability to convert third downs in the second half.


Cons:

Lack of mid-to-deep passing threat, allowing defenses to clog the short lanes.
Ineffective short yardage runs, whether on the goal line, in the redzone or between the 20's.
Seemingly unprepared and lacking intensity in the Baltimore game.
Three punt/kick off returns in last two games.
Sub par punting by two different punters.
Return game (other than Royal's two returns for TDs in SD)


Ok, ran out of steam on the Cons,and I know there are some more, but that can get us started.

What are your pros and cons through the first seven games?

Good post, that's about what I came up with.

[Lonestar]

two weeks ago there were few cons.. everything was hunky dory..
:dancing: :dance:
we Play one damned fine football team and they hang one on us and now the sky is falling..


fair weather fans..:noidea:


getting ready for :flame:

[Dreadnought]

two weeks ago there were few cons.. everything was hunky dory..
:dancing: :dance:
we Play one damned fine football team and they hang one on us and now the sky is falling..


fair weather fans..:noidea:


getting ready for :flame:

No, I've been pretty consistent. Apart from a couple of games I've been unhappy with this offense most of the Season, and especially the passing game. The defense has been lights out 6 of seven games - which I've happily acknowldged - but I dislike our passing attack.

[broncophan]

two weeks ago there were few cons.. everything was hunky dory..
:dancing: :dance:
we Play one damned fine football team and they hang one on us and now the sky is falling..


fair weather fans..:noidea:


getting ready for :flame:

Hey..........I only included 2 cons.......our tough schedule..........and get Royal more involved in the offense.....don't include me as a fair weather fan....:D....

Now....if the steelers, skins, and chargers "hang one on us".......then I will have some serious concerns...:salute:

[Nomad]

cons:

1. we have only 3 running plays.
2. we seem to refuse to attack vertically
3. the new block scheme (our guys arent built for it), i thought we did things to our players strengths, not what the coaches infuse us to do?
4. predictablility on offense. VERY PREDICTABLE!
5. Punter- he will get a blocked punt for a td against pitts

6. running the 5-2 as our base Defense. The middle is wide open and will get exploited soon!
7. lack of pressure without blitzing
8. the power run game, when teams strait up blast us, they get through.


PROS:
Everything i listed above as a Con, can be fixed!! And most relatively easily.

I just hope the coaches see the same thing I do, and opposing teams do.


Pretty good!

Adding to the cons, I will say lack of sure tackling. I'm tired of the attempt of arm tackling up high, the bumping off the ball carrier, going for the 'sportscenter' hit and missing, and trying to strip the ball letting the carrier get 10 extra yds instead of 2....just go back to basics with target, explode, wrap up(grab cloth), and drive to the ground!!


Adding to the pros, I like the way BRONCOS seem to have their fire back (well not last Sunday) and they seem to be playing as a unit.

[Tned]

two weeks ago there were few cons.. everything was hunky dory..
:dancing: :dance:
we Play one damned fine football team and they hang one on us and now the sky is falling..


fair weather fans..:noidea:


getting ready for :flame:

Did you read any of the thread, or just make assumptions? What is "sky is falling about this thread?"

P.S. Would you like to add anything of substance to the thread?

[TXBRONC]

Did you read any of the thread, or just make assumptions? What is "sky is falling about this thread?"

P.S. Would you like to add anything of substance to the thread?


Lack of mid-to-deep passing threat, allowing defenses to clog the short lanes.

I have a question about this one con that you have in your opening post. Are talking about personnel or do you mean in terms of play selection:questionmark:

[Tned]

I have a question about this one con that you have in your opening post. Are talking about personnel or do you mean in terms of play selection:questionmark:

I just mean the lack of it. Why it isn't happening is still up for debate. Against Baltimore, there wasn't much time to throw, but in the first six games that wasn't really a problem.

Some believe it is play calling, some think Orton is accurate on the deeper passes. I think it's a combination of the two.

I don't think Orton is accurate on the deep throws, but he has shown reasonable accuracy on the mid-range (maybe 15-30 yards or so), but they seem to mostly be throwing screens and short crossing routes and short outs.

[TXBRONC]

I just mean the lack of it. Why it isn't happening is still up for debate. Against Baltimore, there wasn't much time to throw, but in the first six games that wasn't really a problem.

Some believe it is play calling, some think Orton is accurate on the deeper passes. I think it's a combination of the two.

I don't think Orton is accurate on the deep throws, but he has shown reasonable accuracy on the mid-range (maybe 15-30 yards or so), but they seem to mostly be throwing screens and short crossing routes and short outs.

I agree with the thinking that it's combinantion play calling and a lack of accuracy on the deeper routes.

[Slick]

I just mean the lack of it. Why it isn't happening is still up for debate. Against Baltimore, there wasn't much time to throw, but in the first six games that wasn't really a problem.

Some believe it is play calling, some think Orton is accurate on the deeper passes. I think it's a combination of the two.

I don't think Orton is accurate on the deep throws, but he has shown reasonable accuracy on the mid-range (maybe 15-30 yards or so), but they seem to mostly be throwing screens and short crossing routes and short outs.

I think Josh is simply playing the the strengths and staying away from the weaknesses of his QB.



As far as the topic of pros and cons...

Pros:
We seem to be extremely well coached, especially the defense.
We have won games I didn't think we'd win.
Orton has been taking care of the football.
The veterans we've signed have actually made an impact this year.
Brian Dawkins.
Ryan Clady.
DJ Williams has excelled in the 3-4 He's even looked good blitzing which was not a strong suit of his in the past.
Dumervil seems to have made a smooth transition.
After a slow start, Marshall has come on strong.
Mike Nolan.

Cons:
Too many screens in the Ravens game, but overall I think the playcalling has been fine.
Special teams is still struggling.
The running game in general.
Ben Hamilton gets owned when we play a big fatty. Casey Hampton coming up this week.
Why didn't we keep Colquitt?
Slow starts on offense.
Not using Sheffler enough.
What happened to Hillis?

[Dreadnought]

I just mean the lack of it. Why it isn't happening is still up for debate. Against Baltimore, there wasn't much time to throw, but in the first six games that wasn't really a problem.

Some believe it is play calling, some think Orton is accurate on the deeper passes. I think it's a combination of the two.

I don't think Orton is accurate on the deep throws, but he has shown reasonable accuracy on the mid-range (maybe 15-30 yards or so), but they seem to mostly be throwing screens and short crossing routes and short outs.

Thats really all you need, too. Home run balls are nice as a luxury, but you can win without them. The Mid-range stuff is an absolute necessity, and you will not consistently win without that. Thats your 3rd and 10 third down conversion and 2 minute drill staple, and without the threat of it the shorter range passing is worthless. I agree Orton can throw those passes tolerably well, but we have to start doing it more. Pass blocking needs to step up, but we already knowe these guys are capable pass blockers, which implies to me that Orton needs to be more decisive.

[Cugel]

Pros:

1. Mike Nolan -- He's been as good as he was in winning the head coaching job in the first place in S.F. He might not be a great Head Coach, but he's a hell of a good DC!

2. McDaniels coaching. I've criticized his player personnel decisions (bitterly) but you can't fault his coaching (at least until the Baltimore game where they came out flat). His play calling and defense have been sound and he's made great adjustments at half-time in most games. Proof: Dominating teams in the 2nd half.

3. Lack of turnovers. Don't turn the ball over and you have a chance to win.

4. Sound defense. They're no longer playing like the 2000 Ravens after being lit up like a Christmas Tree by Joe Flacco, but overall it's still a solid performance against some good offenses. They are still on pace to have a very good year.

5. Re-emergence of Brandon Marshall. Just when they were going to have to put his picture on a milk carton, he re-emerges as the Broncos top WR.

6. Generally good OL Play up till the Ravens game -- despite the immobility of Orton.

CONS:

1. Lack of a deep passing game. This is a critical problem because of Orton's lack of a strong arm. He doesn't stretch the field which enables defenses to crowd the box with 8 defenders and dare him to throw deep.

The Broncos have avoided getting behind in games so he hasn't HAD to throw deep much and that helps a lot. The running game hasn't been GREAT but it's been adequate and better than last year re: injuries.

But Baltimore showed exactly how you beat the Broncos and every other team is going to try the same thing. Put pressure in Orton's face, stuff the box and jam the short and intermediate routes over the middle, and dare him to take a chance throwing downfield.

It's exactly like a hitter in baseball. Until you prove you can hit the curve-ball you'll see nothing but curve-balls!

2. No running game inside the 20. Can't punch it in from inside the ten. This has been a problem for years. Neither Buckwalter nor Moreno has been the answer so far.

3. OL hasn't been able to keep pass-rushers off Orton the way they did last year with Cutler. True, Cutler was stronger, quicker in the pocket and had a better pocket presence than Orton, but Orton has the same offensive line that only surrendered 11 sacks last year. He shouldn't be getting sacked as much as he is.

This year they've given up 11 in 7 games! That's more than double the number of last year and it's an increasing problem. The Broncos are trying to adjust by quick opening routes and moving the pocket to try and relieve the pressure on Orton, but neither tactic worked in the Baltimore game. They have a lot to work on. Orton may have to get rid of the ball quicker -- but that also will diminish the already negligible deep passing game, and defenses will crowd closer and closer to the line of scrimmage.

Thus, it's as if the Broncos are facing a red-zone defense all the time with the restricted field.

Overall, it's been a very successful transition so far as getting everybody on the right page and ready to play Sundays (Baltimore excepted).

[Slick]

Nice post Cugel. I'd like to see us try to get the TE's more involved as well. Make those linebackers and safeties think about defending a TE instead of pinning their ears back or crowding the line of scrimmage against the run. Getting Sheffler off loosened up the Charger defense. He doesn't have to run deep seams or corner routes all the time. Just get him the ball from time to time. Keep the defenses honest.

[honz]

Pros: We are awesome.

Cons: We only play once a week.

[Cugel]

Nice post Cugel. I'd like to see us try to get the TE's more involved as well. Make those linebackers and safeties think about defending a TE instead of pinning their ears back or crowding the line of scrimmage against the run. Getting Sheffler off loosened up the Charger defense. He doesn't have to run deep seams or corner routes all the time. Just get him the ball from time to time. Keep the defenses honest.

Getting the TEs more involved in the passing game WOULD be key, but it's tough to get them out in patterns when you need Graham standing there to block or else Orton gets flattened!

The Post article this morning pointed out that Graham has been a key reason why the Broncos have been successful -- his blocking gives them essentially another OL, because he's one of the best blocking TEs in football.

But, when he's staying in to keep pass-rushers off Orton he can't stretch the defense.

The Broncos need to be able to run the ball better. That's really the only answer. If they can run the ball more effectively that opens up the passing game a lot.

Problem is, defenses keeping 8 in the box will stuff the run. So, to run effectively, you need a deep passing threat to make the safety and CBs play deep. If they do that then the middle of the field opens up.

If they DON'T then you have a problem. Right now the Broncos have a problem. What McDaniels will do I have no idea, but you can bet he's working on it right now.

They're going to have to take some shots down the field to at least get the CBs and FS to go deeper.

[Lonestar]

Hey..........I only included 2 cons.......our tough schedule..........and get Royal more involved in the offense.....don't include me as a fair weather fan....:D....

Now....if the steelers, skins, and chargers "hang one on us".......then I will have some serious concerns...:salute:


all three have a lot of talent.. although the coaching in WAS and SAN sucks but sometimes even coaches can step up for a game.. and the players do a better job than we do..

I suspect all three games will be close wins.. although PIT may pull one out..

[Lonestar]

Did you read any of the thread, or just make assumptions? What is "sky is falling about this thread?"

P.S. Would you like to add anything of substance to the thread?


YES I did read the posts in front of mine..

and stand on the premise that prior to the loss, very few cons have been noted except for the Debbie downers that are always here..

almost everyone was giddy with the 6-0 record and talking playoffs and super bowls..

now most have come off the band wagon to take shots.. yest here have been some consistent folks that were not happy with this or that.. ... but many more have come out of the closet.. after the loss.

I'm thinking Josh is getting the big bucks and he already knows what has been wrong and what needs to correct it..

afterall I have yet to hear a presser from him or any of the players that said anything but, we have a lot of things to work on..

[Tned]

YES I did read the posts in front of mine..

and stand on the premise that prior to the loss, very few cons have been noted except for the Debbie downers that are always here..

almost everyone was giddy with the 6-0 record and talking playoffs and super bowls..

now most have come off the band wagon to take shots.. yest here have been some consistent folks that were not happy with this or that.. ... but many more have come out of the closet.. after the loss.

I'm thinking Josh is getting the big bucks and he already knows what has been wrong and what needs to correct it..

afterall I have yet to hear a presser from him or any of the players that said anything but, we have a lot of things to work on..

Is it fair to say that this is your list of Pros and cons:

Pros:

Cons:

Since we are trying to have a discussion about where the team stands after seven games, I'm just making sure I am following your input to this thread.

[Tned]

Getting the TEs more involved in the passing game WOULD be key, but it's tough to get them out in patterns when you need Graham standing there to block or else Orton gets flattened!

The Post article this morning pointed out that Graham has been a key reason why the Broncos have been successful -- his blocking gives them essentially another OL, because he's one of the best blocking TEs in football.

But, when he's staying in to keep pass-rushers off Orton he can't stretch the defense.

The Broncos need to be able to run the ball better. That's really the only answer. If they can run the ball more effectively that opens up the passing game a lot.

Problem is, defenses keeping 8 in the box will stuff the run. So, to run effectively, you need a deep passing threat to make the safety and CBs play deep. If they do that then the middle of the field opens up.

If they DON'T then you have a problem. Right now the Broncos have a problem. What McDaniels will do I have no idea, but you can bet he's working on it right now.

They're going to have to take some shots down the field to at least get the CBs and FS to go deeper.

Prior to the Baltimore game, the pass blocking was not a problem. Without looking at the stats, I think the bulk of sacks came against Dallas and Baltimore.

Also, there were a number of games prior to Baltimore where Graham was involved in the passing game.

Monday will likely be another tough game for our line, with Pitt being both a good rush defense and having a good pass rush. However, this line has faced quite a few good pass rushing teams and held up well.

[Slick]

You don't have any pros and cons Jr? It's not like this is a "rake the team over the coals" thread.

[topscribe]

Pros:

1. Mike Nolan -- He's been as good as he was in winning the head coaching job in the first place in S.F. He might not be a great Head Coach, but he's a hell of a good DC!

2. McDaniels coaching. I've criticized his player personnel decisions (bitterly) but you can't fault his coaching (at least until the Baltimore game where they came out flat). His play calling and defense have been sound and he's made great adjustments at half-time in most games. Proof: Dominating teams in the 2nd half.

3. Lack of turnovers. Don't turn the ball over and you have a chance to win.

4. Sound defense. They're no longer playing like the 2000 Ravens after being lit up like a Christmas Tree by Joe Flacco, but overall it's still a solid performance against some good offenses. They are still on pace to have a very good year.

5. Re-emergence of Brandon Marshall. Just when they were going to have to put his picture on a milk carton, he re-emerges as the Broncos top WR.

6. Generally good OL Play up till the Ravens game -- despite the immobility of Orton.

CONS:

1. Lack of a deep passing game. This is a critical problem because of Orton's lack of a strong arm. He doesn't stretch the field which enables defenses to crowd the box with 8 defenders and dare him to throw deep.

The Broncos have avoided getting behind in games so he hasn't HAD to throw deep much and that helps a lot. The running game hasn't been GREAT but it's been adequate and better than last year re: injuries.

But Baltimore showed exactly how you beat the Broncos and every other team is going to try the same thing. Put pressure in Orton's face, stuff the box and jam the short and intermediate routes over the middle, and dare him to take a chance throwing downfield.

It's exactly like a hitter in baseball. Until you prove you can hit the curve-ball you'll see nothing but curve-balls!

2. No running game inside the 20. Can't punch it in from inside the ten. This has been a problem for years. Neither Buckwalter nor Moreno has been the answer so far.

3. OL hasn't been able to keep pass-rushers off Orton the way they did last year with Cutler. True, Cutler was stronger, quicker in the pocket and had a better pocket presence than Orton, but Orton has the same offensive line that only surrendered 11 sacks last year. He shouldn't be getting sacked as much as he is.

This year they've given up 11 in 7 games! That's more than double the number of last year and it's an increasing problem. The Broncos are trying to adjust by quick opening routes and moving the pocket to try and relieve the pressure on Orton, but neither tactic worked in the Baltimore game. They have a lot to work on. Orton may have to get rid of the ball quicker -- but that also will diminish the already negligible deep passing game, and defenses will crowd closer and closer to the line of scrimmage.

Thus, it's as if the Broncos are facing a red-zone defense all the time with the restricted field.

Overall, it's been a very successful transition so far as getting everybody on the right page and ready to play Sundays (Baltimore excepted).

Baltimore seldom had more than seven in the box, and they played their safeties deep much of the game.

-----

[LordTrychon]

afterall I have yet to hear a presser from him or any of the players that said anything but, we have a lot of things to work on..

Does that make him a debbie downer as well?