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TXBRONC
11-03-2009, 09:31 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_13699235

Broncos' lone loss magnifies weak spots
By Lindsay H. Jones
The Denver Post
Posted: 11/03/2009 01:00:00 AM MST

After the Broncos' first six games, all wins, quarterback Kyle Orton liked to say there was no better time to take a hard look at the game film than after a victory.

Perhaps the Broncos — from coaches to players — hadn't been critical enough.

The Broncos' 30-7 loss Sunday at Baltimore revealed offensive flaws (and defensive too) that were easily overlooked during their 6-0 start.

"Losing a game really makes the mistakes that much more glaring, and the need to fix things more urgent," Denver coach Josh McDaniels said Monday. "It will be easy for us to see what we didn't do well."

Consider:

• The Broncos couldn't run the ball effectively: Running backs Knowshon Moreno and Correll Buckhalter combined for only 55 yards on 18 carries.

• The Broncos couldn't throw downfield: The longest pass play was 23 yards, and that came in the final minute.

• They struggled to throw short: Orton threw two screen passes that resulted in negative yardage, and he averaged only 4.1 yards per pass.

Denver's offensive ranking fell to the middle of the NFL pack this week, from total yards per game (344.6, 14th) to rushing yards per game (123.1, 11th) to passing yards per game (221.4, 15th). Not exactly the production anyone envisioned for a unit with a strong offensive line, a solid group of receivers, productive tight ends and a No. 1 draft pick at running back.

"No excuses," receiver Eddie Royal said. "We've just got to come out and play better. We know that."

That process began Monday, when players and coaches returned to Dove Valley for film study, meetings and conditioning work. The team will have its first practice in preparation for Monday night's home game against defending Super Bowl champion Pittsburgh on Wednesday.

"We are certainly going to have to improve on what we didn't do well yesterday or else it is going to continue to repeat and carry over to the next Denver Broncos McDaniels said what happened in Baltimore won't change how he game plans, even with Pittsburgh and its fast, physical defense coming to town. But it does mean a closer examination of what works and what doesn't.

McDaniels' offense is built on short passes, including screens to receivers, running backs and tight ends, and on crossing and slant routes that allow receivers to find space in the middle of the field.

If those elements are working — along with decent production from the running game — Orton will occasionally take the big shot downfield. When the staples of the offense sputtered through Sunday's game, the Broncos failed to find a way to improvise and adjust against a stingy and energized Ravens defense.

"Certainly, the quarterback is not absolved from any responsibility offensively. He could have played better, but everybody I would feel the same about," McDaniels said. "It wasn't like we had 20 guys on offense or 20 guys on defense play really well and a couple of guys ruined it for us."

Expect that overall philosophy to remain the same. Coaches and players said Monday it was the execution, not the plan, that failed Sunday.

"We've all got to look at ourselves and see what we can do to make ourselves better so we can make the team better," receiver Jabar Gaffney said.

Said McDaniels: "I have game planned a lot of years against a lot of good defenses. We need to have a good plan each week. That certainly gives your team the best chance to win. Then we need to get our players to execute that plan, against whatever defense we are playing, better."

Lindsay H. Jones: 303-954-1262 or ljones@denverpost.c

red98
11-03-2009, 12:10 PM
Expect that overall philosophy to remain the same. Coaches and players said Monday it was the execution, not the plan, that failed Sunday.

Yeah right. The game plan, adjustments, play calling and execution all sucked.


The line sucked, marshall ran bad routes, Orton really sucked, etc..

McKid better start trusting KO to take risks or this is going to be a waste of a great D.

Traveler
11-03-2009, 12:22 PM
"We've all got to look at ourselves and see what we can do to make ourselves better so we can make the team better," receiver Jabar Gaffney said.

:ahhhhh:If I hear this phrase one more time, I think I'll lose it. One of the most annoying phrases in the NFL.

Poet
11-03-2009, 12:26 PM
Yeah right. The game plan, adjustments, play calling and execution all sucked.


The line sucked, marshall ran bad routes, Orton really sucked, etc..

McKid better start trusting KO to take risks or this is going to be a waste of a great D.

Holy overreactions batman!

red98
11-03-2009, 12:41 PM
Holy overreactions batman!

Pointing out how bad a game the coaches and offense had is an overreaction?

Poet
11-03-2009, 12:44 PM
Pointing out how bad a game the coaches and offense had is an overreaction?

No, but the "waste of a good defense" seemed to come from the "sky is falling" type of thinking. It was more of a joke than anything else.

red98
11-03-2009, 12:52 PM
No, but the "waste of a good defense" seemed to come from the "sky is falling" type of thinking. It was more of a joke than anything else.

Doh!, got ya King.

I don't know if it's trusting KO more or not, that's JMHO. I don't think the sky is falling, I just hate to see a great D done in by a bad O.

I'm sure McKid will come up with something.

weazel
11-03-2009, 01:12 PM
Doh!, got ya King.

I don't know if it's trusting KO more or not, that's JMHO. I don't think the sky is falling, I just hate to see a great D done in by a bad O.

I'm sure McKid will come up with something.

I dont know, I think it was more frustrating last year watching the offense score and then watching our helpless defense give up a TD 90 seconds later.

I can watch a struggling offense much longer than watching a struggling defense. The offense can usually find something while the defense just gets tired and worse.

red98
11-03-2009, 02:21 PM
I dont know, I think it was more frustrating last year watching the offense score and then watching our helpless defense give up a TD 90 seconds later.

I can watch a struggling offense much longer than watching a struggling defense. The offense can usually find something while the defense just gets tired and worse.

I hate both. Our offense didn't score all that often last year anyway.

Superchop 7
11-04-2009, 03:11 AM
Maybe they will get rid of their skirts this week and play like men.

NameUsedBefore
11-04-2009, 03:42 AM
Boo self-criticism! Boo, hiss.

Nomad
11-04-2009, 07:29 AM
And they have to match the intensity and agressiveness of the other team as well, the Ravens punched us in the mouth and we just stood there and in the 4th quarter the BRONCOS gave up. You won't win games like this either!!
Actually I believe they gave up when they left Denver!!

gobroncsnv
11-04-2009, 08:04 AM
I can watch a struggling offense much longer than watching a struggling defense. The offense can usually find something while the defense just gets tired and worse.

At least when this year's offense struggles, it's not baking turnovers on every drive. That's how you lose 50 to something in a must win game. And even MORE of a waste of a good D, because of the short fields you keep giving the other team.

No, I don't enjoy a 30-7 loss. No question, our D was just out on the field too much, and I can't think of a better way to expose any weakness on that side of the ball.

I DO think McD will have more answers for this week's game. Don't know that we'll win, but I'm thinking we'll be "readier" this week.

Tned
11-04-2009, 08:13 AM
I dont know, I think it was more frustrating last year watching the offense score and then watching our helpless defense give up a TD 90 seconds later.

I can watch a struggling offense much longer than watching a struggling defense. The offense can usually find something while the defense just gets tired and worse.

If the offense is struggling, but the defense is dominant, you know you are still in the game. One or two good drives, or a defensive turnover and you are there.

If the offense is playing well, but the defense is struggling, then you know the offense likely has to score anytime they touch the ball, and if they don't, that could be a loss.

If I have to take one side of the ball struggling, I will take the offense, if the defense is good enough to keep it a low scoring, defensive game.

Lonestar
11-04-2009, 10:00 AM
Well I for one do not think ONE bad game out of seven is worh all the hand wringing I have seen so far on this forum.

Y'all fail to see that this team is still a work in progress. We have been in this new scheme for 7 games now at full game speed, many of the players such as BM are just now figuring it out and it is becoming second nature in reacting to the plays opposed to THINKING about it before reacting to it.

REMEMBER the only offensive player that really KNOWS the scheme is Gaffney. It is second nature to him alone.

That despite 3 losses BAL is a damned good team, we did not lose to OAK, KC, STL, or TB but to a team that IIRC was in the AFCCG last year, their backs were to the wall, at their staduim in an early game and the sum total of those 3 losses was 11 points.

While we have things to fix. Last few years teams that would have been a 3-60 loss.

The sky is not falling.

Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

TXBRONC
11-04-2009, 11:01 AM
Well I for one do not think ONE bad game out of seven is worh all the hand wringing I have seen so far on this forum.

Y'all fail to see that this team is still a work in progress. We have been in this new scheme for 7 games now at full game speed, many of the players such as BM are just now figuring it out and it is becoming second nature in reacting to the plays opposed to THINKING about it before reacting to it.

REMEMBER the only offensive player that really KNOWS the scheme is Gaffney. It is second nature to him alone.

That despite 3 losses BAL is a damned good team, we did not lose to OAK, KC, STL, or TB but to a team that IIRC was in the AFCCG last year, their backs were to the wall, at their staduim in an early game and the sum total of those 3 losses was 11 points.

While we have things to fix. Last few years teams that would have been a 3-60 loss.

The sky is not falling.

Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

Not exactly, Daniel Graham spent the first five years of his career in this exact same offense.

broncohead
11-04-2009, 01:18 PM
We don't take any shots downfield and only did when it was to late to come back. When we throw 3-5 yard passes it's easy for defenses to everything infront of them. After throwing a few short passes take a shot up the sideline or deep middle. Keep the D honest.

Lonestar
11-04-2009, 03:15 PM
Not exactly, Daniel Graham spent the first five years of his career in this exact same offense.

Picky picky so now we have grahm that learned a new offense when he came to DEN. Relerarning this one that no doubt has a few wrinkles in it like actually running a route unlike 98% of the time in NE. So we have 2 on offense if they are on the field doing something besides blocking DE's. And then if lonnie might be on the field. About 2.25 guys Out of the 20 some odd on offense that might be almost comfortable as we speak with the scheme.

Sorry but when it gets to 6 or maybe 8 of the guys on the field on Offense than you may have an almost legit argument. It takes only a fraction of a second indecision that can FUBAR a play by one person instead of up to 7-8 that are now still learning the play book and having it down PAT.

Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

Lonestar
11-04-2009, 03:22 PM
We don't take any shots downfield and only did when it was to late to come back. When we throw 3-5 yard passes it's easy for defenses to everything infront of them. After throwing a few short passes take a shot up the sideline or deep middle. Keep the D honest.

Did you ever think they do not call the play deep because none of the WR have that timing down with Orton. Like they do on the bread and butter of the scheme nor even if they did our OLINE could pass protect long enough to have a reasonable chance of pulliing the play off.

It takes 7 players to complete a Pass the oline, QB and a Reciever. Wihout them all doing their part it does not happen and the longer the pass the harder it gets.
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T.K.O.
11-04-2009, 03:56 PM
lone loss makes broncos the only team in the league with 6 wins....pretty awesome for a team that was'nt expected by many to even reach the 6 win mark !
but seriously lets try and remember that the 3-3 ravens had lost to 3 good teams by a combined total of 11 points ....7 of which were from favre miracle last second td toss.
were still a very good team with a bright future:salute:

TXBRONC
11-04-2009, 05:14 PM
Picky picky so now we have grahm that learned a new offense when he came to DEN. Relerarning this one that no doubt has a few wrinkles in it like actually running a route unlike 98% of the time in NE. So we have 2 on offense if they are on the field doing something besides blocking DE's. And then if lonnie might be on the field. About 2.25 guys Out of the 20 some odd on offense that might be almost comfortable as we speak with the scheme.

Sorry but when it gets to 6 or maybe 8 of the guys on the field on Offense than you may have an almost legit argument. It takes only a fraction of a second indecision that can FUBAR a play by one person instead of up to 7-8 that are now still learning the play book and having it down PAT.

Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

First of all how the hell would what the rest of offensive players know and not when come to the offense? Are you in the meetings? Do you go out and practice with them? As we speak you don't know ish. Therefore when you actually know exactly each player is in their develop then come back and tell me until then step off.

TXBRONC
11-04-2009, 05:16 PM
We don't take any shots downfield and only did when it was to late to come back. When we throw 3-5 yard passes it's easy for defenses to everything infront of them. After throwing a few short passes take a shot up the sideline or deep middle. Keep the D honest.

I'm sure there are reasons why they haven't taken more shots down field.

Ravage!!!
11-04-2009, 05:50 PM
Did you ever think they do not call the play deep because none of the WR have that timing down with Orton.

No. They threw the deep ball to Edwards one week after he move to the Jets.. and did it with a rookie QB.

They threw the deep ball to Crabtree in San Fran in his first week back, and he miss all of TC, pre-season, and the first 5 games of regular season.

Not to mention, broncohead simply TAKE SOME shots downfield to keep the defense honest. You don't even have to complete those deep balls to keep the safeties from playing like LBs.

Ravage!!!
11-04-2009, 05:53 PM
If rookie QBs can come in and learn and entire new system, and start for an NFL team.... then I think its time we leave the "they are learning a new system" reasoning at home and left behind.

TXBRONC
11-04-2009, 07:25 PM
If rookie QBs can come in and learn and entire new system, and start for an NFL team.... then I think its time we leave the "they are learning a new system" reasoning at home and left behind.

To know all the ins and out they say it takes a quarterback about 3 years to have a system down pat. That being said, after 7 months the players should have decent grasp of the system. I don't mean that as any inditemet of any one player especially Ortorn since he's quarterback. There are a lot reasons why they are not going down field with ball.

Lonestar
11-04-2009, 08:01 PM
To know all the ins and out they say it takes a quarterback about 3 years to have a system down pat. That being said, after 7 months the players should have decent grasp of the system. I don't mean that as any inditemet of any one player especially Ortorn since he's quarterback. There are a lot reasons why they are not going down field with ball.


First of all how the hell would what the rest of offensive players know and not when come to the offense? Are you in the meetings? Do you go out and practice with them? As we speak you don't know ish. Therefore when you actually know exactly each player is in their develop then come back and tell me until then step off.

Seems like you answered the above response two posts later..

Just like YOU do not know crap about the players niether does anyone else on this forum..

But if you have ever played a team sport and football in particular you KNOW that on every play everyone on your side has to do their jobs exactly!!! unless some moron across the LOS does something wrong..



No. They threw the deep ball to Edwards one week after he move to the Jets.. and did it with a rookie QB.

They threw the deep ball to Crabtree in San Fran in his first week back, and he miss all of TC, pre-season, and the first 5 games of regular season.

Not to mention, broncohead simply TAKE SOME shots downfield to keep the defense honest. You don't even have to complete those deep balls to keep the safeties from playing like LBs.


I'm sure there are reasons why they haven't taken more shots down field.

seems to me that your last comment supports your rebuttal of my post..

.

TXBRONC
11-04-2009, 09:53 PM
No. They threw the deep ball to Edwards one week after he move to the Jets.. and did it with a rookie QB.

They threw the deep ball to Crabtree in San Fran in his first week back, and he miss all of TC, pre-season, and the first 5 games of regular season.

Not to mention, broncohead simply TAKE SOME shots downfield to keep the defense honest. You don't even have to complete those deep balls to keep the safeties from playing like LBs.

As mentioned in a earlier post I'm sure there are a lot reasons why they haven't taken shots down field not the least of which is Orton's lack of accuracy on long passes.

gobroncsnv
11-04-2009, 10:34 PM
Last QB Denver had with a consistently accurate long ball was Elway... none since. We can't seem to find a 30+ yard pass where the receiver doesn't have to break stride in some way to get to the ball.

broncohead
11-05-2009, 11:39 AM
Did you ever think they do not call the play deep because none of the WR have that timing down with Orton. Like they do on the bread and butter of the scheme nor even if they did our OLINE could pass protect long enough to have a reasonable chance of pulliing the play off.

It takes 7 players to complete a Pass the oline, QB and a Reciever. Wihout them all doing their part it does not happen and the longer the pass the harder it gets.
Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel

Well the offense hasn't really looked bread and butter all season tbh. It's been lackluster. Throwing 5 yard passes and screens all game really makes the opposing defenses job real easy as seen last game.

gobroncsnv
11-05-2009, 07:38 PM
bad blocking helps a defense look better also.