Justin Smith...how pricey in FA?

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Justin Smith, UFA, Cincinnati Bengals
Smith is an intriguing player. He’s consistent, experienced, and has a powerful motor. With 81 total tackles and 7.5 sacks in ’06, Smith showed that he was a high level end, and that he was coming into his own as a defensive leader on the Bengals. He’s been unable to have similar success this season, with just two sacks to go with his 75 total tackles. It doesn’t help that the defense around him has been porous. He won’t command elite dollars, but he could be valuable to a handful of teams and may find a suitor willing to open the checkbook a little bit.

What do we think of Smith? I see him as a very solid, affordable option at DE to pair up w/ Crowder on running downs while Mos grows into the spot and since Elvis is not an everydown DE. At 6'4" 275 and only 28y/o when the season begins, I think it would be very wise for Shanny to look at a solid veteran presence which he shouldn't need to overpay for.

http://www.bengals.com/team/player.asp?player_id=10

http://www.nfl.com/players/justinsmith/careerstats?id=SMI446020

[Jwalk - JayCutty6Goes - CasinoRoyal]

I really dont think we need any more big time DE's, How about some DT's??

[UnderArmour]

Maybe if you'd posted this about Justin Smiley...

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I really dont think we need any more big time DE's, How about some DT's??

MORE Big time DEs??? When did we get the first one?

[mopatt24]

I'm all for brining him in, if we can afford him and a DT who can complement him

[Lonestar]

MORE Big time DEs??? When did we get the first one?


DT make the DE's and we have plenty of them waiting to become studs..

Moss, Dumervil, Crowder and a few more currently on the roster..

[Scarface]

I didn't want to overpay Smith last year and def. don't want to do it this year.

[MHCBill]

Someone tell me who spent BIG free agent dollars on a DT and the DT was worth the money?

Teams don't let good DT's go.

[Lonestar]

Someone tell me who spent BIG free agent dollars on a DT and the DT was worth the money?

Teams don't let good DT's go.

Your absolutely correct any that do get cut loose are probably not who we want.. Kennedy? Warren? Last but not least Sam Adams who was what we wanted just over the hill..

The good ones either are not available or so pricey because they are a scarce commodity they can name their price.. They will have many suitors for them..

DEN does not have that aura they used to have a place where VETS wanted to come, mainly to win a S/B or because Mikey took it easy in practice because many teams now do it..

mikeys luster has worn thin and is now tarnished in the NFL many do not hold him in high regard that Pat does.. He may be a mastermind but he is also a micro manager and IMO a lousy at best GM.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

DT make the DE's and we have plenty of them waiting to become studs..

Moss, Dumervil, Crowder and a few more currently on the roster..

Moss...hurt and unproven. Crowder looked solid. Dumervil is awful vs the run...and who are the FEW MORE?????

[nevcraw]

He is going to be looking for kerney type $$$. Not sure he will match that output though.
We could have used Kerney this year, but he would not been as good with our DT's as he has been in Seattle.

Both if these guys are John Engleberger but only 1000 times better.

[Lonestar]

Moss...hurt and unproven. Crowder looked solid. Dumervil is awful vs the run...and who are the FEW MORE?????


moss should be a good DE given a bit of time he should have put on some weight in the off season as well as get some time with the coaching staff to watch films.. Same goes for crowder he will get better each year for awhile..

We have yet to see doom against the run with a solid middle Spell that DT, he was however drafted to be a 3rd down type DE Spell that passing therefore the run is less an issue than one is making it out to be..

[SmilinAssasSin27]

moss should be a good DE given a bit of time he should have put on some weight in the off season as well as get some time with the coaching staff to watch films.. Same goes for crowder he will get better each year for awhile..

We have yet to see doom against the run with a solid middle Spell that DT, he was however drafted to be a 3rd down type DE Spell that passing therefore the run is less an issue than one is making it out to be..

But that was also my point. UNTIL THEN, we could use a solid vet presence on the outside who has some size. I don't think he'll warrant the money anywhere near what Kerney did.

I'm not gonna hang up if we don't get Smith, but I also think he's a viable, inexpensive option...especially since he could teach the rooks.

[silkamilkamonico]

But that was also my point. UNTIL THEN, we could use a solid vet presence on the outside who has some size. I don't think he'll warrant the money anywhere near what Kerney did.

I'm not gonna hang up if we don't get Smith, but I also think he's a viable, inexpensive option...especially since he could teach the rooks.

Justin Smith is going to want a big contract and a long term deal.



.....NO.

[Poet]

Justin Smith is a GOD AWFUL FOOTBALL PLAYER. He is literally one of the absolute worst players on our team. He has a great motor, but most of his tackles come from behind the RB after the RB just ran by him. Hell,look up at his game logs throughout his career for sacks. He averages around 7-9 a year, and the majority of the time they come in clumps. Seriously, if you want an overpaid defensive lineman with only one pass rush move who can have 2 or three good games a year and a defensive lineman that wants Pro Bowl money then have at him. He is a BAD player.

[nevcraw]

But that was also my point. UNTIL THEN, we could use a solid vet presence on the outside who has some size. I don't think he'll warrant the money anywhere near what Kerney did.

I'm not gonna hang up if we don't get Smith, but I also think he's a viable, inexpensive option...especially since he could teach the rooks.
Did he not get franchized by Cinci last year Paying him top 5 $$$ at position? Doesn't bode well for the inexpensive theory..He will be looking for similar in the FA market.

[shank]

But that was also my point. UNTIL THEN, we could use a solid vet presence on the outside who has some size. I don't think he'll warrant the money anywhere near what Kerney did.

I'm not gonna hang up if we don't get Smith, but I also think he's a viable, inexpensive option...especially since he could teach the rooks.

Ebenezer Ekuban Dawg.

we already have it.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Isn't he a FA as well?

[shank]

Isn't he a FA as well?

i didn't think so... but if he is he'll be a lot easier and cheaper to keep around than to bring smith in. i think ekuban will be good to have back. he is good at everything, but great at nothing, but he fills the veteran, solid player, consistent effort role that you are talking about.:salute:

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I like him too, but the injury would be a big concern.

[Stargazer]

i didn't think so... but if he is he'll be a lot easier and cheaper to keep around than to bring smith in. i think ekuban will be good to have back. he is good at everything, but great at nothing, but he fills the veteran, solid player, consistent effort role that you are talking about.:salute:

We'll see. He will be returning from an injury. He might not make the team.

[joshxhannah]

I like smith if the price is right... thats the problem. He's a high motor mediocre talent (thats better than what we have). Solid against run and pass, if the price was right i'd be all for it. I'd much rather see us send a package of players and picks to tenn. for haynesworth. We need someone with a bad attitude on this D. (or if dorsey slips past the top 5... i know it will never happen, but a man can dream).

[Poet]

I like smith if the price is right... thats the problem. He's a high motor mediocre talent (thats better than what we have). Solid against run and pass, if the price was right i'd be all for it. I'd much rather see us send a package of players and picks to tenn. for haynesworth. We need someone with a bad attitude on this D. (or if dorsey slips past the top 5... i know it will never happen, but a man can dream).

Justin Smith is as solid against the pass as Rosie O"Donnel is skinny.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

So as a first hand observer, are you saying that there is no way that the other 3 nameless DLine players get him double teamed...resulting is lesser production? Or do you just believe that he is THAT bad?

[Poet]

So as a first hand observer, are you saying that there is no way that the other 3 nameless DLine players get him double teamed...resulting is lesser production? Or do you just believe that he is THAT bad?

I have seen Justin Smith get crushed by poor offensive lineman for years. And for the record Justin Smith has/had (hopefully had) Geathers playing the other end and Geathers is a very nice pass rusher. Justin Smith has one move, in fact as a first hand observer I can tell you that teams don't bother to double Justin Smith. Doubling Justin Smith is like jumping a kid on crutches. Why would you waste the time of other people when a single person could do it? The man has gotten blown up by tight ends for years.

Here, I will just go ahead and break down Justin Smith as a player so I can make myself clear my friend.

Justin Smith has one pass rush move, the bull rush. And while that works great in college when you are regularly playing against people who do not have NFL talent, it fails miserably when you go against a real lineman in the NFL.

Justin Smith was drafted to be a sack artist and is far from it. Justin Smith has never had a season where he had a double digit sacks. That is a fact. http://www.nfl.com/players/justinsmith/profile?id=SMI446020

Now, this is where you are kind of forced to take my word for it or disagree, beacuse this is just my observations from watching him play. He rarely collapses the pocket. This is terrible, because he really was drafted to be a pass rusher. His pass rush attempts usually end with him being inches behind his side of the original line of scrimmage. This is actually the most pathetic thing of all, because he does have a motor. He can play almost every single last snap of the game for us because as far as stamina and work ethic goes, he is elite. But think about that for a second and you will get my point. Almost every single last time he plays against a guy who is in there almost as long as he is, who is probably more tired than he is, and he STILL cannot beat him.

As far as Justin Smith goes for run defense, he is average. The majority of his tackles stem from him getting burned by the running back and then 5-8 yards down the field he shoe string tackles said RB. But to be fair, Justin Smith is not terrible or bad against the run. I have seen him stuff elite RBs, and I have seen him make nice plays against RBs a fair amount of the time. But every year it seems he gets a very high amount of tackles, so he is consistent in that area. The reason why Justin Smith was so tauted by the Bengals for a few years is that every season you think he is just coming into his own as a great defensive player. Sigh, it never happens that way, never at all.

[shank]

I like him too, but the injury would be a big concern.

last i had heard everything was going well and he planned to be back at 100%..

but i guess every player always says that so you never really know for sure. i hope eb is back and healthy next year cause he was a solid producer for us in 06 and will help out in run defense to some extent.

plus, from king's description, smith sounds like he's not as good a player, because we all know that ebenezer was solid against he run and did get decent pressure when his assignment was to get after the qb, qbs just always stepped up into the pocket away from him and doom because we had weak-ass DTs in 06 as well.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I have seen Justin Smith get crushed by poor offensive lineman for years. And for the record Justin Smith has/had (hopefully had) Geathers playing the other end and Geathers is a very nice pass rusher. Justin Smith has one move, in fact as a first hand observer I can tell you that teams don't bother to double Justin Smith. Doubling Justin Smith is like jumping a kid on crutches. Why would you waste the time of other people when a single person could do it? The man has gotten blown up by tight ends for years.

Here, I will just go ahead and break down Justin Smith as a player so I can make myself clear my friend.

Justin Smith has one pass rush move, the bull rush. And while that works great in college when you are regularly playing against people who do not have NFL talent, it fails miserably when you go against a real lineman in the NFL.

Justin Smith was drafted to be a sack artist and is far from it. Justin Smith has never had a season where he had a double digit sacks. That is a fact. http://www.nfl.com/players/justinsmith/profile?id=SMI446020

Now, this is where you are kind of forced to take my word for it or disagree, beacuse this is just my observations from watching him play. He rarely collapses the pocket. This is terrible, because he really was drafted to be a pass rusher. His pass rush attempts usually end with him being inches behind his side of the original line of scrimmage. This is actually the most pathetic thing of all, because he does have a motor. He can play almost every single last snap of the game for us because as far as stamina and work ethic goes, he is elite. But think about that for a second and you will get my point. Almost every single last time he plays against a guy who is in there almost as long as he is, who is probably more tired than he is, and he STILL cannot beat him.

As far as Justin Smith goes for run defense, he is average. The majority of his tackles stem from him getting burned by the running back and then 5-8 yards down the field he shoe string tackles said RB. But to be fair, Justin Smith is not terrible or bad against the run. I have seen him stuff elite RBs, and I have seen him make nice plays against RBs a fair amount of the time. But every year it seems he gets a very high amount of tackles, so he is consistent in that area. The reason why Justin Smith was so tauted by the Bengals for a few years is that every season you think he is just coming into his own as a great defensive player. Sigh, it never happens that way, never at all.


Tell me how ya really feel.

thanx man. Dude gets so much fan fare around these parts, but I haven't seen enough of him.

[joshxhannah]

I disagree completely with him being as bad as king says. Do i want to pay tons of $$$ for him? Absolutely not! But do i think he's a substantional upgrade over ebeneezer engleburger and other elite talent like that? of course i do, and the bengals appeared to think even higher of him than i do because of the tag. I would like to see him in a broncos uni, but i wouldn't break the bank for him. He's above average, in my opinion, and again i see him as solid against run or pass. We currently have 1 pass rush specialist playing every down, and an injuried unproven pass rush specialist, another rookie who has shown flashes, and then 4-5 poor quality D ends. I'd like to see an above average every down DE, and if the price is right, smith fits that bill.

[Poet]

I disagree completely with him being as bad as king says. Do i want to pay tons of $$$ for him? Absolutely not! But do i think he's a substantional upgrade over ebeneezer engleburger and other elite talent like that? of course i do, and the bengals appeared to think even higher of him than i do because of the tag. I would like to see him in a broncos uni, but i wouldn't break the bank for him. He's above average, in my opinion, and again i see him as solid against run or pass. We currently have 1 pass rush specialist playing every down, and an injuried unproven pass rush specialist, another rookie who has shown flashes, and then 4-5 poor quality D ends. I'd like to see an above average every down DE, and if the price is right, smith fits that bill.

Do you know why they franchised Smith? They couldn't find a single person that the thought could start, and they didn't want to franchise Steinbach because they have a ton of depth for their offensive line. So they where faced with an ultimatum, franchise a DE that some people loved, or franchise and waste even more money (in their mind) on Steinbach. As soon as they tagged Smith it was known that Smith would have to have a huge year for them to give him a long term deal. The only reason they even bothered tagging Smith was once again it appeared like he "turned" the corner and was headed towards being the monster that he was supposed to be.

Look, I actually have started to develop a soft spot for the Broncos, and I wouldn't wish this guy on you.....Cleveland yes, Broncs no!;)