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Overtime
10-27-2009, 09:38 PM
lulz, looks like some Bears fans are finally seeing the light. :laugh:


http://boards.chicagobears.com/forums/thread/1872419.aspx


Really what has this guy done...average ratings, too many picks, but ALWAYS someone else to blame for losses...receivers, o-line,...he had great receivers in Denver with a terrific...his numbers:

07' 63.3% 14 picks Rating 88
08 62.3% 18 picks Rating 86

Why wasnt his ratings higher even though the defence lost the games....

Now 09

65% 10 picks rating 82...right about his average.

Can someone tell me one reason why this guy is supposed to be the "all star quarterback" Unproven and overrated..ohhh ya the rocket arm in company with Jamarcus Russel and Byron Leftwich....

The reason Orton is shining in Denver because all that was needed was a smart quarterback who could actually hit these receivers without throwing picks. I think McDaniels was smart and saw this well in advance.

Wake up Chicago...take the red pill!!!

Denver Native (Carol)
10-27-2009, 10:00 PM
from same thread

In Defense of Kyle Orton

Bear Brethren,

It is a wonderment to observe the new disciples of JayC working themselves into a lather in an attempt to convince themselves that he is the godsend, the final puzzle piece that has given our Bears the franchise quarterback for which we have so long dreamed. And it is fitting that they must also continue to denigrate the skill and ability of the now departed Kyle Orton in order to lift our new celebrity superstar up to an even loftier pedestal. It is the Chicago Way. And as Nelson Algren conjectured, Chicago is a rigged game, and boy have we ever been snookered.

We begin by questioning the objective analytical abilities of Bear fans and football experts. Apparently most of them are ignorant of Kyle Orton’s incredible success at the collegiate level while playing for Joe Tiller the master of "basketball on grass" at the quarterback factory of the Big Ten that is Purdue University in West Lafayette, Indiana. He represented the next in a long line of great Qbs from Len Dawson through Bob Griese, Mike Phipps and Drew Brees. If not for one disastrous play during his final year he may have won the Heisman and been a top draft choice. Cutler was recruited by no Big Ten school even though he came from Indiana.

Orton’s lack of arm strength is some kind of urban myth perpetuated and embellished by the jealous and mis-informed. His only interception this year has been a 65 yard "Hail Mary" that he put right on target. At the tender age of 18 he out dueled a 28 year old strong armed pro Jon Kitna in a test of distance. Yet KO’s critics maintain Cutler is superior. Orton has set records for his error free passing, but it is Cutler who is lauded for his accuracy.

While with the Bears Orton had the opportunity to play under the tutelage of Ron Turner whose offensive genius and imaginative play calling are challenged perhaps only by no one other than our own beloved John Shoop. I think RT deserves much of the credit for hiding KO’s talents under a bushel basket and destroying his professional reputation. And despite every obstacle, being thrown into the fire and then ignored, operating behind a substandard O-line, fighting through painful injury and being deprived of quality receivers, he still managed to lead them, especially at home, to an incredible record of victories. Conversely, our new franchise quarterback and first time Pro-Bowler has never achieved a winning record as a starter in college or the pros.

This blind devotion to a player who has yet to live up to his promise is hard for me to swallow. I know some of the Bear beat reporters have been so enthralled that they’ve acted like teenagers on a first date. But I would expect true fans not to be as gullible. But what is even more difficult to understand is the need to besmirch Kyle Orton. His critics must be blind to the talent I have been observing for the past seven years. Perhaps it is his cow-eyed resemblance to Gomer Pyle. Maybe it was his low key manner in a very edgy town. All I know is that I saw a smart, tough, gutsy, talented quarterback who the Bears were lucky to pick up on the fourth round and who has continued to learn and improve just as his maturity and experience have grown.

But what rankles me most is that the discussion continues as though this was a heads up deal. It was not. Even if JayC is a superior QB to KO, and I maintain that he is not, he is not better by a first round draft choice, and certainly not two of them. Jerry Angelo has mortgaged the Bear’s future on the Arm of Mr. Cutler, a bad bet in a rigged game. The Bears had no first rounder this year and will have none next. The Broncos had two in ‘09 and will have two more in 2010. Who in their right mind can say the Bears made out in that deal?

I had looked forward to a healthy Kyle Orton leading the Bears to a championship season. I now hope for the best but with less confidence. Like many of you I wish Kyle Orton much success in Denver. But unlike you, I think Chicago got the short end in this deal and will be paying for it long into the future. Uh, oh, I just heard "Old Noodle Arm" got named AFC Offensive Player of the Week. Well GOLLLLL-Y.

__________________

Red Zone Efficiency (last 2 years)
Kyle Orton: 20 TDs, 1 Int
Jay Cutler: 24 TDs, 7 Ints

topscribe
10-27-2009, 10:02 PM
lulz, looks like some Bears fans are finally seeing the light. :laugh:


http://boards.chicagobears.com/forums/thread/1872419.aspx



I don't remember Russell passing for 4,500 yards and going to the Pro Bowl. The
Bears fan is delusional.

I'm not unhappy over the trade and Orton's being here instead of Cutler, but
Cutler is not any JaMarcus Russell by any stretch of the imagination . . .

-----

MileHighCrew
10-27-2009, 10:21 PM
I would never ever compare Cutler to Russell. Cutler is far superior to Russell and I would like to think I wouldn't have cheered so hard for someone as I did for Cutler if he displayed the same lack of star power as Russell has shown. I think Broncos fans are too smart to have been fooled by Cutler if he was indeed Russell.

broncobryce
10-28-2009, 01:13 AM
wow. I'm drunk but Cutler is not Russel. Russel is more like Leaf and Cutler is more like Jeff George with a tinch of Favre thrown in. But too bad its the bad favre, No MVPS

Shazam!
10-28-2009, 01:22 AM
Russell? No. George? Maybe.

Northman
10-28-2009, 05:21 AM
And it is fitting that they must also continue to denigrate the skill and ability of the now departed Kyle Orton in order to lift our new celebrity superstar up to an even loftier pedestal.

You mean Denver isnt the only place where fans haggle their former QB? lol

Dirk
10-28-2009, 06:10 AM
We definately got the better deal at this point.


Headlines after the season will be, "Chicago traded to get a franchize QB, what they didn't know was they already had one."

claymore
10-28-2009, 07:09 AM
If Orton keeps progressing we got the deal of the century.

Tned
10-28-2009, 07:28 AM
If Orton keeps progressing we got the deal of the century.

We are all so drunk with the 6-0 start (I'm among the drunk), that we haven't really asked the real question.

Is Orton a great/franchise QB, or like many hoped in the off season, is Orton proving to be a great system QB?

For us, it might not matter, because the results might be the same, but lets remember all the off season press, where many 'experts' predicted that Orton could do very well in McDaniels QB friendly system. The system that requires a smart QB, that could protect the ball, but was very QB friendly.

Think of all those posts (asinine, really) where posters were trying to make a case for Brady not really even being that good or having a strong arm, but instead a product of the system (this was mostly people trying to convince themselve we were going to be ok with Orton).

NightTrainLayne
10-28-2009, 09:09 AM
For us, it might not matter, because the results might be the same, but lets remember all the off season press, where many 'experts' predicted that Orton could do very well in McDaniels QB friendly system. The system that requires a smart QB, that could protect the ball, but was very QB friendly.

I'm sorry Tned, but I don't remember any "expert press" predicting that Orton would do well at all. All I remember is experts passing judgement that McD made one of the dumbest trades of all time.

I'm sure there were one or two, but for the most part it was pretty overwhelming on the other side.

Reidman
10-28-2009, 11:38 AM
We are all so drunk with the 6-0 start (I'm among the drunk), that we haven't really asked the real question.

Is Orton a great/franchise QB, or like many hoped in the off season, is Orton proving to be a great system QB?

For us, it might not matter, because the results might be the same, but lets remember all the off season press, where many 'experts' predicted that Orton could do very well in McDaniels QB friendly system. The system that requires a smart QB, that could protect the ball, but was very QB friendly.

Think of all those posts (asinine, really) where posters were trying to make a case for Brady not really even being that good or having a strong arm, but instead a product of the system (this was mostly people trying to convince themselve we were going to be ok with Orton).

Good point Tned..

Hmm Cutler could possibly be playing mistake-free football if he had just swallowed his pride and stuck around....who knows. Makes no difference now though...Orton's here, he's not..we're 6-0 and they're 3-3..

Dortoh
10-28-2009, 11:43 AM
I always thought bears fans were more NFL educated then that.

Denver Native (Carol)
10-28-2009, 11:48 AM
I always thought bears fans were more NFL educated then that.

They should be - after all - they were rated a 10

Tned-Mobile
10-28-2009, 12:21 PM
I'm sorry Tned, but I don't remember any "expert press" predicting that Orton would do well at all. All I remember is experts passing judgement that McD made one of the dumbest trades of all time.

I'm sure there were one or two, but for the most part it was pretty overwhelming on the other side.

Two separate issues. Yes, most 'experts' stated trading Cutler was a bad move by the rookie head coach. That was pretty much a given, based on the "you don't trade a franchise QB (yes, I know many Denver fans 'now' don't consider Cutler a franchise QB)".

However, many experts, whether on Sirius NFL radio, SI, ESPN, NFL Network, felt that while Orton was a downgrade in talent at QB, he had a very good chance to do well in McDaniels 'system', as he was smart and didn't make a lot of bad decisions.

Many of these I saw on TV or heard on the radio, but I will try and find some print tonight when I get home. I'm sure it won't be hard.

Northman
10-28-2009, 01:13 PM
Hmm Cutler could possibly be playing mistake-free football if he had just swallowed his pride and stuck around....

A ******* men.

Northman
10-28-2009, 01:13 PM
They should be - after all - they were rated a 10

Bhwahahahahhahahaa. Nice one Carol.

Denver Native (Carol)
10-28-2009, 02:08 PM
I will have to admit that I am somewhat surprised that this is going on with the Bears only playing 6 games so far.


http://boards.chicagobears.com/forums/thread/1874874.aspx

When I said at the beginning of the season that this was an 8-8 Bears team, at best, I got ripped and called a troll. Now, it seems fans are jumping on the 8-8 bandwagon. Humm...

When I said (during the preseason) that Cutler has yet to prove anything in a Bears uniform yet I was told I knew nothing about QBs. Humm...

Now, for saying the thing the burns Bears fan's ears I am sure to be ripped again. Kyle Orton was better for our team than Jay Cutler. How can I make such an outrageous claim!? Easy. This team lacks LEADERSHIP.

Orton understands that it takes a TEAM, not a PLAYER to win ball games. When he is credited with having few picks (1) this season he is the first to say "thanks to my Oline"... And his team loses he does the opposite -- "I failed the team". Of course this hasn't happened yet in Denver. Where are all the fans who posted that the "GUARANTEE" Orton will look silly after the Broncos play New England and Baltimore??

This Bears team LACKS LEADERSHIP. Defensively we see it with Urlacher gone and offensively we see it with Orton gone. Jay Cutler is a selfish player and his post-game demeanor make it obvious. An echo-bot of Lovie Smith. Yes, it's Cade McClown time.

QB is the undisputed offensive leader of a team on the field and that is the role Cutler has a problem with. I don't think his abilities are in question. Yes, he has the arm. Yes, he has the mobility. Yes, he has the physical attributes. He lacks the mind. As others have tried to share with Bears fans -- CUTLER IS A MENTAL MIDGET.

At the core this is the same Bears team that Orton operated with last year. Hester was EVEN LESS experienced at the receiver position, the Oline had many of the same degenerates... The D...

Some people may be surprised to learn that a D plays better when they have more confidence in the offense. Not necessarily that the offense will sore a ton of points but that the offense will not LOSE the game for the team. That when the offense gets into the redzone -- they will score points! When the D starts seeing a offense that cannot MANAGE A GAME (ala Orton) it is easy for them to get frustrated.

A D that is frustrated and lacks confidence in the offense will take it upon themselves to make the difference. They will go for strips -- and miss tackles. They will go into soft coverages (iZones, trying to tempt offenses into throwing picks) -- and allow offenses to pick them apart. They will panic. They will know that in order to win a game THEY are going to have to score. Lovie always preaches scoring on defense. Which is GREAT -- except when it is a necessary part of your offense!

Yes, Ron Turner is to blame. Yes, the Oline is to blame. Yes, Lovie is to blame. Yes, the D is to blame. And yes, JAY CUTLER is to blame. This team lacks leadership, plain and simple.

We traded a LEADER with good physical skills for a PEA-BRAIN with great physical skills. The problem is we don't need a cannon arm to win games. We need some solid leadership. OOPS BEARS FANS! We made a mistake! Jay Cutler is not the answer. Until this team has leadership it will always be a fill-in-the-blank.

GOOD ________ , BAD ________

Tned-Mobile
10-28-2009, 03:01 PM
I will have to admit that I am somewhat surprised that this is going on with the Bears only playing 6 games so far.



Think about the Broncos forums over the years. Whether it was fans turning on Griese or Plummer or Cutler or Orton this summer before he ever played a game or booing Orton at Invesco after a bad 'practice', it's the same thing. Our fans even turned on Elway at times. How many of us remember fans calling into KOA talking about how he couldn't win the big game, we would be better off trading him while we could get something for him.

It's no different.

If the Broncos had started 1-3 or Orton had thrown a few picks, what would this forum be like?

Remember, we still have a "Postive Only gameday thread up every week", because the fans had turned on Orton and McDaniels so much in the preseason, that it was requested as a refuge. Thankfully, a 6-0 start has made it unnecessary, but if we were 3-3, a large contingent of fans would be shredding Orton, just like some fans are shredding Cutler on the Bears forum.

I don't find it at all surprising. It's the nature of fans.

Northman
10-28-2009, 03:22 PM
I will have to admit that I am somewhat surprised that this is going on with the Bears only playing 6 games so far.


http://boards.chicagobears.com/forums/thread/1874874.aspx

When I said at the beginning of the season that this was an 8-8 Bears team, at best, I got ripped and called a troll. Now, it seems fans are jumping on the 8-8 bandwagon. Humm...

When I said (during the preseason) that Cutler has yet to prove anything in a Bears uniform yet I was told I knew nothing about QBs. Humm...

Now, for saying the thing the burns Bears fan's ears I am sure to be ripped again. Kyle Orton was better for our team than Jay Cutler. How can I make such an outrageous claim!? Easy. This team lacks LEADERSHIP.

Orton understands that it takes a TEAM, not a PLAYER to win ball games. When he is credited with having few picks (1) this season he is the first to say "thanks to my Oline"... And his team loses he does the opposite -- "I failed the team". Of course this hasn't happened yet in Denver. Where are all the fans who posted that the "GUARANTEE" Orton will look silly after the Broncos play New England and Baltimore??

This Bears team LACKS LEADERSHIP. Defensively we see it with Urlacher gone and offensively we see it with Orton gone. Jay Cutler is a selfish player and his post-game demeanor make it obvious. An echo-bot of Lovie Smith. Yes, it's Cade McClown time.

QB is the undisputed offensive leader of a team on the field and that is the role Cutler has a problem with. I don't think his abilities are in question. Yes, he has the arm. Yes, he has the mobility. Yes, he has the physical attributes. He lacks the mind. As others have tried to share with Bears fans -- CUTLER IS A MENTAL MIDGET.

At the core this is the same Bears team that Orton operated with last year. Hester was EVEN LESS experienced at the receiver position, the Oline had many of the same degenerates... The D...

Some people may be surprised to learn that a D plays better when they have more confidence in the offense. Not necessarily that the offense will sore a ton of points but that the offense will not LOSE the game for the team. That when the offense gets into the redzone -- they will score points! When the D starts seeing a offense that cannot MANAGE A GAME (ala Orton) it is easy for them to get frustrated.

A D that is frustrated and lacks confidence in the offense will take it upon themselves to make the difference. They will go for strips -- and miss tackles. They will go into soft coverages (iZones, trying to tempt offenses into throwing picks) -- and allow offenses to pick them apart. They will panic. They will know that in order to win a game THEY are going to have to score. Lovie always preaches scoring on defense. Which is GREAT -- except when it is a necessary part of your offense!

Yes, Ron Turner is to blame. Yes, the Oline is to blame. Yes, Lovie is to blame. Yes, the D is to blame. And yes, JAY CUTLER is to blame. This team lacks leadership, plain and simple.

We traded a LEADER with good physical skills for a PEA-BRAIN with great physical skills. The problem is we don't need a cannon arm to win games. We need some solid leadership. OOPS BEARS FANS! We made a mistake! Jay Cutler is not the answer. Until this team has leadership it will always be a fill-in-the-blank.

GOOD ________ , BAD ________


Its really unfortuante for Jay. He came into the league and played well for the most part yet still had some things to work on but the media jumped on the bandwagon and made him to be bigger and better than he really is at this point in his career. What makes things worse is Chi-town traded for Jay because they believe they can win now. But with the early struggles they will lash out and either come to the conclusion that it was the actual team around Orton that needed improvement or that Jay isnt the answer at QB. I was listening to some talk radio this morning and they did say something interesting that was brought up in your post there. They talked about how JeMarcuss Marshmellow was interviewed and he essentially threw everybody else on his team under the bus by saying he doesnt think he is the problem.

Although Russell is hardly the only problem the raiders have he does contribute to them. And the talk show hosts said that is not a good sign of a QB who is expected to be a leader on that team. They also threw Jay's name in there as Jay rarely takes any accountablility for his bad play. I think that is one thing that bothers Bears fans as well. Still early for both QB's but it will be interesting how it plays out if the attitudes dont change. I know its popular to blame McDaniels for looking into the trade with Cassell but its a known fact that Jay has a bad attitude and pouts when things go bad both on and off the field. Maybe it was his attitude that concerned McD from the beginning and thus prompted the inquiry. Either way, i just see more and more as time has gone on that makes me believe that Jay was the bigger problem and it seems to be continuing in Chicago.

Cutler5280
10-28-2009, 03:55 PM
that draft class of Quarterbacks is trash !!
:defense::salute:

Denver Native (Carol)
10-28-2009, 04:31 PM
Think about the Broncos forums over the years. Whether it was fans turning on Griese or Plummer or Cutler or Orton this summer before he ever played a game or booing Orton at Invesco after a bad 'practice', it's the same thing. Our fans even turned on Elway at times. How many of us remember fans calling into KOA talking about how he couldn't win the big game, we would be better off trading him while we could get something for him.

It's no different.

If the Broncos had started 1-3 or Orton had thrown a few picks, what would this forum be like?

Remember, we still have a "Postive Only gameday thread up every week", because the fans had turned on Orton and McDaniels so much in the preseason, that it was requested as a refuge. Thankfully, a 6-0 start has made it unnecessary, but if we were 3-3, a large contingent of fans would be shredding Orton, just like some fans are shredding Cutler on the Bears forum.

I don't find it at all surprising. It's the nature of fans.

It was understandable that so many fans turned on Orton and McDaniels so much in preseason, because so many were upset that Cutler was traded, and there were even a handful who were upset because Shanahan was fired. But from everything I read in Chicago, they were thrilled to have Cutler, he threw out the first pitch at the Cubs game, etc., etc. He was the franchise QB they had been waiting for. After all of that hype, that is why I am surprised that after 6 games, some are already throwing him under the bus.

Overtime
10-28-2009, 05:05 PM
FWIW, I do know one game that Russell was > Cutler.

the 31-10 thrashing they gave us in Mile High last year.

Russell looked like a Pro Bowler that day.

Tned
10-28-2009, 05:09 PM
FWIW, I do know one game that Russell was > Cutler.

the 31-10 thrashing they gave us in Mile High last year.

Russell looked like a Pro Bowler that day.

Yea, that was the game Culter played on defense. Right?

Overtime
10-28-2009, 05:54 PM
Yea, that was the game Culter played on defense. Right?

i'm talking about comparing QB's to QB's. Cutler couldn't put up more than 10 points against the Raiders.

LordTrychon
10-28-2009, 05:59 PM
And Leaf> Flutie, Gannon, and McNair too.

WTE
10-28-2009, 06:10 PM
http://cache3.asset-cache.net/xc/73930748.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=E02C08B9E51E47AA663950FFC5B7BAA6E30A760B0D811297

Lonestar
10-28-2009, 07:01 PM
Think about the Broncos forums over the years. Whether it was fans turning on Griese or Plummer or Cutler or Orton this summer before he ever played a game or booing Orton at Invesco after a bad 'practice', it's the same thing. Our fans even turned on Elway at times. How many of us remember fans calling into KOA talking about how he couldn't win the big game, we would be better off trading him while we could get something for him.

It's no different.

If the Broncos had started 1-3 or Orton had thrown a few picks, what would this forum be like?

Remember, we still have a "Postive Only gameday thread up every week", because the fans had turned on Orton and McDaniels so much in the preseason, that it was requested as a refuge. Thankfully, a 6-0 start has made it unnecessary, but if we were 3-3, a large contingent of fans would be shredding Orton, just like some fans are shredding Cutler on the Bears forum.
I don't find it at all surprising. It's the nature of fans.

I think most reasonable fans seeing us with a 3-3 and if we did not lose badly, would not have an issue with it..


Bears fans were expecting a super bowl, most of us were not..

Tned
10-28-2009, 07:05 PM
I think most reasonable fans seeing us with a 3-3 and if we did not lose badly, would not have an issue with it..


Bears fans were expecting a super bowl, most of us were not..

I didn't realize this was in smack, which I don't post in. So I'm out of this thread.

WTE
10-28-2009, 08:10 PM
I didn't realize this was in smack, which I don't post in. So I'm out of this thread.

You're right Tned. This Smack Section sucks. The world is too PC these days for a Smack Forum to exist without hurting someone's feelings.

I'm out of here too.

Northman
10-28-2009, 09:25 PM
i'm talking about comparing QB's to QB's. Cutler couldn't put up more than 10 points against the Raiders.

Except in the first matchup when we trounced them 42-17 or something to that effect. It was an up and down year last year and a lot of it was based on how the defense played at any given moment.

Reidman
10-28-2009, 11:00 PM
There's one other thing to consider when talking about the Bears...

What the hell has Matt Forte done this year?? I think he may have had one or two solid games but for the most part has looked the part of a bust. We all know without a solid running game, the passing game is doomed from the start since teams are not respecting the run and bringing loads of pressure on Cutler...

Jay will make his mistakes regardless of what the defense is doing based on his gunslinger mentality, but it doesn't help that he lacks an efficient back right now. If Forte can pull his head out and start playing the way he did last season, I think the Bears could finish strong...

GEM
10-29-2009, 04:51 AM
There's one other thing to consider when talking about the Bears...

What the hell has Matt Forte done this year?? I think he may have had one or two solid games but for the most part has looked the part of a bust. We all know without a solid running game, the passing game is doomed from the start since teams are not respecting the run and bringing loads of pressure on Cutler...

Jay will make his mistakes regardless of what the defense is doing based on his gunslinger mentality, but it doesn't help that he lacks an efficient back right now. If Forte can pull his head out and start playing the way he did last season, I think the Bears could finish strong...

Mr. Rocket Arm wannabe isn't going to hand off to a RB when he could fire it downfield for an INT.

Cutler...coach and rb killer.

Nah, seriously...

Between Cutler wanting to throw it downfield every play and the (horrendous) play caller in CHI, they have dropped Forte from their game plans. He is averaging 15 attempts per game over the past 6 games. The guy can't get into a rhythm and RB's need that.

The play callers and coaches there have put too much on their QB's shoulders and have forgotten what a balanced offense is.

Northman
10-29-2009, 06:04 AM
I think it is kind of funny. But i blame the coaches for Forte's lack of touches. When Chicago got Cutler they wanted to have a Qb who could wing it down the field but havent been smart enough to utilize the running back except in a couple of games. They are just making the same mistakes they did when they got Grossman.

CoachChaz
10-29-2009, 08:18 AM
There's a lot of things Chicago needs to do. Forte needs to run the ball at LEAST 20 times a game. The have to establich the grounf game first. They also need to put Chris Williams at left tackle and let him grow in that spot. The one thing Cutler misses more than Brandon Marshall right now is Ryan Clady. They also need to keep Cutler in a shorter passing game. Hard to do when you have 2 regulars (Hester and Knox) that pretty much only know how to run a 9 route.

They're just nowhere ready to be a playoff team like many "experts" suggested and even if they correct all the issues...they still have to pray Cutler figures it out

Gamechanger
10-29-2009, 11:37 AM
i would blame the coaching, Cutler needs a competent coaching staff who will stick by him and will keep him in check with the mistakes

(waits for the Broncos fans to say "but he could have had that with McDaniels")

but didn't McDaniels entertain a trade for Cassel? that's not sticking by with a QB, that was a debacle in itself

i'm speaking on a staff that will decipher his mistakes and show him his wrongs

Cutler can and will be a star but his main problem were how the coaching handled him

Shanahan let him sling it all around
and Lovie is doing the same

Cutler is messing up, yea, but its not his fault the coaching staff conform to him and his arm

topscribe
10-29-2009, 11:50 AM
i would blame the coaching, Cutler needs a competent coaching staff who will stick by him and will keep him in check with the mistakes

(waits for the Broncos fans to say "but he could have had that with McDaniels")

but didn't McDaniels entertain a trade for Cassel? that's not sticking by with a QB, that was a debacle in itself

i'm speaking on a staff that will decipher his mistakes and show him his wrongs

Cutler can and will be a star but his main problem were how the coaching handled him

Shanahan let him sling it all around
and Lovie is doing the same

Cutler is messing up, yea, but its not his fault the coaching staff conform to him and his arm

Well, once again, that is not entirely true. McDaniels said he did not place any
calls about Cassel, that he and Xanders received a call, they listened, and
then declined and hung up. Until substantial evidence comes in to prove
otherwise, I am going to fly in the face of his many accusers and stand fast
on this.

I don't even believe that this issue is what incited Cutler's demand to be
traded. I believe it was McD's refusal to allow Cutler to be "the man." McD's
policy is that the QB is part of the team, not the team itself. This is supported
by the fact that Cutler would not return even Mr. Bowlen's calls.

Regarding Cutler's present situation, I believe his coaching is ruining him. They
have made him "the man," which Cutler is not yet mature enough to assume.
They also have him winging it and forcing it down the field instead of looking
for the open man, as Denver's coaches have Orton doing.

Finally, as previously mentioned, Chicago has all but deserted the running
game. I don't know how Orton could be as good as he is without the threat of
Bucky and Knowshon coming out of the backfield. By the same token, the
Bears are wasting Forte to the same degree as they are Cutler.

Cutler has the same potential, the same immense skills he has always had. But
if he is not coached to bring them out, I fear he may go the same path as
did Jeff George. That would be a shame. It really would.

-----

NightTrainLayne
10-29-2009, 11:57 AM
i would blame the coaching, Cutler needs a competent coaching staff who will stick by him and will keep him in check with the mistakes

(waits for the Broncos fans to say "but he could have had that with McDaniels")

but didn't McDaniels entertain a trade for Cassel? that's not sticking by with a QB, that was a debacle in itself

i'm speaking on a staff that will decipher his mistakes and show him his wrongs

Cutler can and will be a star but his main problem were how the coaching handled him

Shanahan let him sling it all around
and Lovie is doing the same

Cutler is messing up, yea, but its not his fault the coaching staff conform to him and his arm

Here's the question I have: Is Cutler un-coachable? I don't know the answer to that, but if so, then it does fall on his shoulders. NFL coaches the caliber of Shanahan, and Lovie Smith aren't really known for their inability to coach talent.

topscribe
10-29-2009, 12:05 PM
Here's the question I have: Is Cutler un-coachable? I don't know the answer to that, but if so, then it does fall on his shoulders. NFL coaches the caliber of Shanahan, and Lovie Smith aren't really known for their inability to coach talent.

That is a possibility I didn't mention . . .

-----

Dirk
10-29-2009, 12:07 PM
Again, Cutler is Cutler. He is making the same mistakes in Chicago that he made in Denver. And the mistakes he made were with a better o-line in Denver. He makes poor judgement calls because he believes he can put the ball anywhere he wants.

How many times did he throw an INT in the redzone in Denver? Same 'ol same 'ol.

I am not saying Cutler doesn't have talent. The guy does for sure. I am just saying that is his playing style. Can a coach "coach" it out of him? :whoknows:

Gamechanger
10-29-2009, 12:17 PM
Here's the question I have: Is Cutler un-coachable? I don't know the answer to that, but if so, then it does fall on his shoulders. NFL coaches the caliber of Shanahan, and Lovie Smith aren't really known for their inability to coach talent.

I don't believe he's un-coachable, but I do believe because of his skill set he's appeased on plays, and the book is prematurely opened up

an example of this was last year when Favre went to New York

Denver Native (Carol)
10-29-2009, 02:49 PM
Well, once again, that is not entirely true. McDaniels said he did not place any
calls about Cassel, that he and Xanders received a call, they listened, and
then declined and hung up. Until substantial evidence comes in to prove
otherwise, I am going to fly in the face of his many accusers and stand fast
on this.

I don't even believe that this issue is what incited Cutler's demand to be
traded. I believe it was McD's refusal to allow Cutler to be "the man." McD's
policy is that the QB is part of the team, not the team itself. This is supported
by the fact that Cutler would not return even Mr. Bowlen's calls.

Regarding Cutler's present situation, I believe his coaching is ruining him. They
have made him "the man," which Cutler is not yet mature enough to assume.
They also have him winging it and forcing it down the field instead of looking
for the open man, as Denver's coaches have Orton doing.

Finally, as previously mentioned, Chicago has all but deserted the running
game. I don't know how Orton could be as good as he is without the threat of
Bucky and Knowshon coming out of the backfield. By the same token, the
Bears are wasting Forte to the same degree as they are Cutler.

Cutler has the same potential, the same immense skills he has always had. But
if he is not coached to bring them out, I fear he may go the same path as
did Jeff George. That would be a shame. It really would.

-----

This morning on Vic/Gary on ESPN radio, they talked with Chris Collinsworth, and Chris said that when Cutler was traded, he could not believe it, and wondered what in the heck Coach McD was doing/thinking. Then Chris said he sat down with Coach McD, and even though Coach McD did not outwardly say it, Chris said he got the opinion that Jay did not completely believe in Coach McD's system - did not buy into it.

I truly believe that Jay would have been much better off with Coach McD as his coach, IF he could have not only withstood the criticism from Coach McD, which the coach admits that he is very hard on Kyle, but Kyle knows that the intent is for Kyle to be a better QB. But I really don't think that Jay would have been able to put up with coach McD yelling at him on the sidelines, and, unlike Kyle, would not have just stood there, and listened. Coach McD is not a coach that will baby players.

Lonestar
10-29-2009, 03:48 PM
This morning on Vic/Gary on ESPN radio, they talked with Chris Collinsworth, and Chris said that when Cutler was traded, he could not believe it, and wondered what in the heck Coach McD was doing/thinking. Then Chris said he sat down with Coach McD, and even though Coach McD did not outwardly say it, Chris said he got the opinion that Jay did not completely believe in Coach McD's system - did not buy into it.

I truly believe that Jay would have been much better off with Coach McD as his coach, IF he could have not only withstood the criticism from Coach McD, which the coach admits that he is very hard on Kyle, but Kyle knows that the intent is for Kyle to be a better QB. But I really don't think that Jay would have been able to put up with coach McD yelling at him on the sidelines, and, unlike Kyle, would not have just stood there, and listened. Coach McD is not a coach that will baby players.

I would believe that in a heart beat.

I have said almost from the get go that after watching all the jay tape that Josh came to the conculsion that jay could be great if he wanted to play in his scheme.

I also believe that jay let it be known that he was a pro bowl franchise QB and he would fight Josh to implement the scheme as it does not favor a "rocket arm gunslinger". That his stats that bumped his salary numbers up this past year would not do the same in 09. Thus he would be working off a 1 million dollar contract this coming year. When Josh would not re-do the contract the "call" became his out from DEN.

I think everyone believes that jay if he could restrain himself in this system could be great.

But that was not to be. He opted for promise of a new contract and a free flowing offense that he could sling away.

Sent Via Blackberry by altell.

Dirk
10-29-2009, 06:11 PM
First, when Cutler was named to the Pro Bowl I was happy of course because he was a Bronco, but didn't think he deserved it over Rivers. This inflated his ego I believe.

Second, his performance in the PB IIRC was not a PB performance. Even though it was just a PB. Didn't he get picked off in it also? I don't watch the PB so I may be mistaken but I think I read that.

Anyway, the point is, that he "believes" he is Elite because he went to the PB. Rivers deserved it over him.

I don't take anything away from him and only want him to lose bad this year for the 1st round pick. Then he can go gangbusters as long as he loses to us.

topscribe
10-29-2009, 06:27 PM
This morning on Vic/Gary on ESPN radio, they talked with Chris Collinsworth, and Chris said that when Cutler was traded, he could not believe it, and wondered what in the heck Coach McD was doing/thinking. Then Chris said he sat down with Coach McD, and even though Coach McD did not outwardly say it, Chris said he got the opinion that Jay did not completely believe in Coach McD's system - did not buy into it.

I truly believe that Jay would have been much better off with Coach McD as his coach, IF he could have not only withstood the criticism from Coach McD, which the coach admits that he is very hard on Kyle, but Kyle knows that the intent is for Kyle to be a better QB. But I really don't think that Jay would have been able to put up with coach McD yelling at him on the sidelines, and, unlike Kyle, would not have just stood there, and listened. Coach McD is not a coach that will baby players.


I would believe that in a heart beat.

I have said almost from the get go that after watching all the jay tape that Josh came to the conculsion that jay could be great if he wanted to play in his scheme.

I also believe that jay let it be known that he was a pro bowl franchise QB and he would fight Josh to implement the scheme as it does not favor a "rocket arm gunslinger". That his stats that bumped his salary numbers up this past year would not do the same in 09. Thus he would be working off a 1 million dollar contract this coming year. When Josh would not re-do the contract the "call" became his out from DEN.

I think everyone believes that jay if he could restrain himself in this system could be great.

But that was not to be. He opted for promise of a new contract and a free flowing offense that he could sling away.

Sent Via Blackberry by altell.


Reading these posts, it just dawned on me:

Jay Cutler is a supremely gifted quarterback.

Kyle Orton is a football player.

-----

WTE
10-29-2009, 06:38 PM
Reading these posts, it just dawned on me:

Jay Cutler is a supremely gifted quarterback.

Kyle Orton is a football player.

-----

Such great smack talk going on in this thread.

http://www.alphamom.com/postpartum-mom/smackdown_yawn.jpg

LRtagger
10-29-2009, 06:39 PM
If the Broncos had started 1-3 or Orton had thrown a few picks, what would this forum be like?


Most of the clowns that dogged the team all offseason have shown their true colors and are nowhere to be found.

Yes if we were 1-3, 2-4, whatever...there would be turmoil on the forum - but it would be primarily driven by people who are not posting right now. There are a couple guys that were having a hard time with the offseason and have admitted they were wrong....but a MAJORITY of the negative attitude came from a select few that are either banned or too embarrassed to post anymore. It's sad.

topscribe
10-29-2009, 06:47 PM
Such great smack talk going on in this thread.

Never even realized this was in the Smack forum.

I just tried to enter what I viewed as a truism . . .

-----

WTE
10-29-2009, 07:02 PM
Never even realized this was in the Smack forum.

I just tried to enter what I viewed as a truism . . .

-----

Diluted Smack.

Purified Smack.

Call it anything you want.

When it's overly edited and altered it's just sucky smack.

topscribe
10-29-2009, 07:19 PM
Diluted Smack.

Purified Smack.

Call it anything you want.

When it's overly edited and altered it's just sucky smack.

You lost me there . . . :confused:

-----

Poet
10-29-2009, 07:20 PM
Jay Cutler is either going to be an elite monster (and he never was elite, just pretty good) or Jeff George.

And Forte is overrated and Chicago's offensive line blows. Are they an above average team? I think they are when they have some semblance of health. I did overrate them a bit, but I think they are a 9-7 team in a respectable division.

I think Cutler will be ok, but people looked at Cutler's numbers and acted like they were all him. He played one one of the better offensive lines in recent memory and had a very good group of WRs to throw the ball to. Hell, he even locked onto Brandon Marshall over 110 times.

Now he has WRs with great speed across the board. What that means is that he needs to stop throwing it down the field as much because none of them can run a route to save their life and try to get them in space. Oh wait, I don't think he's allowed to audible much. :D

That last bit was just my dislike for the guy coming out. He's a good QB.

Denver Native (Carol)
10-29-2009, 09:34 PM
Never even realized this was in the Smack forum.

I just tried to enter what I viewed as a truism . . .

-----

I did not think this thread was started in Smack, but I may be wrong. :whoknows:

ursamajor
10-30-2009, 06:13 AM
i would blame the coaching, Cutler needs a competent coaching staff who will stick by him and will keep him in check with the mistakes

(waits for the Broncos fans to say "but he could have had that with McDaniels")

but didn't McDaniels entertain a trade for Cassel? that's not sticking by with a QB, that was a debacle in itself

i'm speaking on a staff that will decipher his mistakes and show him his wrongs

Cutler can and will be a star but his main problem were how the coaching handled him

Shanahan let him sling it all around
and Lovie is doing the same

Cutler is messing up, yea, but its not his fault the coaching staff conform to him and his arm

It is funny you mention coaching GC. I have lost all faith in Lovie's ability to reach, and develop players. This comes from the Benson situation. And because of Benson, I am now having some serious respect for Angelo's ability to acquire talent. My biggest knock on him was Benson. Looks like Benson isnt a bust. Looks like Lovie screwed the pooch in developing him on and off the field.

Hell maybe Rex could have been something really special too in the right hands. Kyle (who I always respected) and Cedric are proving to be.

Fire Smith, Hire Holmgren!

Northman
10-30-2009, 06:19 AM
Most of the clowns that dogged the team all offseason have shown their true colors and are nowhere to be found.

Yes if we were 1-3, 2-4, whatever...there would be turmoil on the forum - but it would be primarily driven by people who are not posting right now. There are a couple guys that were having a hard time with the offseason and have admitted they were wrong....but a MAJORITY of the negative attitude came from a select few that are either banned or too embarrassed to post anymore. It's sad.


Spot on.

Denver Native (Carol)
10-30-2009, 10:22 AM
It is funny you mention coaching GC. I have lost all faith in Lovie's ability to reach, and develop players. This comes from the Benson situation. And because of Benson, I am now having some serious respect for Angelo's ability to acquire talent. My biggest knock on him was Benson. Looks like Benson isnt a bust. Looks like Lovie screwed the pooch in developing him on and off the field.

Hell maybe Rex could have been something really special too in the right hands. Kyle (who I always respected) and Cedric are proving to be.

Fire Smith, Hire Holmgren!

I really feel that Coach McD would have been a perfect coach for Jay, as far as taking Jay to the level where he wants to be; however, I don't feel that Jay would have accepted that Coach McD will not baby a player, nor would Jay have accepted Coach McD's criticism to make him a better player. I feel Jay wants to be handled with "kid gloves", and Lovie seems to fit in that category. Would Holmgren fit in that category - if not, hiring him, or a coach like him may not be what Jay would want, or moreso accept.

Northman
10-30-2009, 02:12 PM
I really feel that Coach McD would have been a perfect coach for Jay, as far as taking Jay to the level where he wants to be; however, I don't feel that Jay would have accepted that Coach McD will not baby a player, nor would Jay have accepted Coach McD's criticism to make him a better player. I feel Jay wants to be handled with "kid gloves", and Lovie seems to fit in that category. Would Holmgren fit in that category - if not, hiring him, or a coach like him may not be what Jay would want, or moreso accept.


Great post. And the more i think about it the more im starting to agree with JR about the money thing. I dont think thats the sole purpose of Jay wanting to get out of dodge but i do think Jay was worried about his stats being in McD's system. Although Orton has proved you can still put up a lot of numbers i think Jay thought it would drop off for some reason. I think Jay is in a hurry to be put into Peyton status so much so that he wants to be in an offense that will let him chuck it 75% of the time. Problem is, without any balance with a running game or solid defense your not going to win very many championships. If Lovie was smart he would begin to utilize Forte more and use short screen passes and hook patterns early in ballgames to get Cutler in a groove before taking shots down the field. Right now Lovie is just doing Jay no justice at all by letting him wing it down field every other down. The Bears are just not the Colts or the 99' Rams. If Lovie gets fired you can bet your ass that Jay will try to force the Bear organization to hire Shanahan at all costs.

ursamajor
10-31-2009, 02:07 PM
Great post. And the more i think about it the more im starting to agree with JR about the money thing. I dont think thats the sole purpose of Jay wanting to get out of dodge but i do think Jay was worried about his stats being in McD's system. Although Orton has proved you can still put up a lot of numbers i think Jay thought it would drop off for some reason. I think Jay is in a hurry to be put into Peyton status so much so that he wants to be in an offense that will let him chuck it 75% of the time. Problem is, without any balance with a running game or solid defense your not going to win very many championships. If Lovie was smart he would begin to utilize Forte more and use short screen passes and hook patterns early in ballgames to get Cutler in a groove before taking shots down the field. Right now Lovie is just doing Jay no justice at all by letting him wing it down field every other down. The Bears are just not the Colts or the 99' Rams. If Lovie gets fired you can bet your ass that Jay will try to force the Bear organization to hire Shanahan at all costs.

I dont know if it will be Shanahan, but at least Mike can do one thing really well (Offense) Lovie cant do anything well. Im still hoping it is Holmgren. Either of them will be able to develop Jay. But at least Holmgren can put together some solid defenses. Or knows where to go to find a guy that can.

Overtime
10-31-2009, 02:21 PM
I dont know if it will be Shanahan, but at least Mike can do one thing really well (Offense) Lovie cant do anything well. Im still hoping it is Holmgren. Either of them will be able to develop Jay. But at least Holmgren can put together some solid defenses. Or knows where to go to find a guy that can.

well we know Jay does a few things well

Chokes
Throws Game costing INT's
Fumbles at the best possible time (well it's the best possible time in my mind).

:elefant:

Lonestar
10-31-2009, 02:39 PM
I dont know if it will be Shanahan, but at least Mike can do one thing really well (Offense) Lovie cant do anything well. Im still hoping it is Holmgren. Either of them will be able to develop Jay. But at least Holmgren can put together some solid defenses. Or knows where to go to find a guy that can.

if your looking for D Shanny is NOT the way to go..

he had proved time and again that he just is not interested in having a strong DC that will not roll over and give it up... he went through 4-5 good ones that would not put up with his O is the only way to win attitude..

We are going to draft offense and LB's day one figure out who you want cause I love fast LB's.. the rest of the D I'll get from the garbage heaps..

Shazam!
11-01-2009, 02:18 AM
I dont know if it will be Shanahan, but at least Mike can do one thing really well (Offense) Lovie cant do anything well. Im still hoping it is Holmgren. Either of them will be able to develop Jay. But at least Holmgren can put together some solid defenses. Or knows where to go to find a guy that can.

Be wary of Shanahan, but maybe being fired and having time to reflect on things could be good for him.

Shanahan's biggest problems in his later Denver years if he didn't learn from them were in this order-

1-Neglecting the defense
2-Poorly motivated, some times flat teams
3-Bad conditioning, weak practices
4-Lack of adjustments
5-Some absolutely horrendous free agents
6-Always finesse, never physical enough

I wanted him fired in 2007. Look at the Broncos now.

Lonestar
11-01-2009, 02:30 AM
Be wary of Shanahan, but maybe being fired and having time to reflect on things could be good for him.

Shanahan's biggest problems in his later Denver years if he didn't learn from them were in this order-

1-Neglecting the defense
2-Poorly motivated, some times flat teams
3-Bad conditioning, weak practices
4-Lack of adjustments
5-Some absolutely horrendous free agents
6-Always finesse, never physical enough

I wanted him fired in 2007. Look at the Broncos now.

but, but, but, but Veteran FA's loved to play in DEN for him..


I would have dropped him as a GM 5 years ago..

ursamajor
11-01-2009, 08:30 PM
well we know Jay does a few things well

Chokes
Throws Game costing INT's
Fumbles at the best possible time (well it's the best possible time in my mind).

:elefant:

I know it. I remember hearing the same things about Favre and P. Manning. Spooky.

Shazam!
11-05-2009, 02:09 AM
I know it. I remember hearing the same things about Favre and P. Manning. Spooky.

Please stop. That's like saying the same about Jake Plummer with Manning and Farve because he threw a lot on INTs too. Cutler in no way, shape or form has done absolutely nothing to deserve mention with two of the greatest QBs of all time. Stop playing with yourself.

ursamajor
11-05-2009, 01:17 PM
Please stop. That's like saying the same about Jake Plummer with Manning and Farve because he threw a lot on INTs too. Cutler in no way, shape or form has done absolutely nothing to deserve mention with two of the greatest QBs of all time. Stop playing with yourself.

I remember Manning having the stigma of choke artist once upon a time. He threw over 80 ints in his first 4 years, and had a winning percentage of .500 over the same span. No one is playing with themselves here, thanks.

Shazam!
11-05-2009, 01:49 PM
Your analysis is totally wrong as usual. It is the same as saying Jake Plummer is one of the best QBs of all time because he threw a lot of INTs.

Despite any winning percentage stat you may cling to in desperation, Manning was in the Playoffs in his 2nd Season. He was in the Playoffs 2 out of his first 4 years and 3 out of 5.

Manning is twice as smart as Cutler will ever be.

Again. Stop playing with yourself.

Gamechanger
11-05-2009, 08:56 PM
ehh, even in the playoffs, Manning still had his off days

it wasn't until 03 till he won his first playoff game (HEHEHEHE)

i'm not putting Cutler on that echelon yet, if he gets himself straightened with a better coaching staff, he could be mentioned with those like Roethelisberger

to shoot a fair one though, I see him like Romo, IF i were to compare him to someone

WTE
11-05-2009, 09:05 PM
The Colts are about to be Explosed!

Gamechanger
11-05-2009, 09:09 PM
The Colts are about to be Explosed!

*sniff, sniff* you smell that?

http://gispro.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/bullshit.jpg

WTE
11-05-2009, 09:22 PM
Did Gamechanger just fart or was that Bush?

http://www.healthfreedom.ws/articles/images/bush_fart.jpg

Overtime
11-05-2009, 09:48 PM
Cutler is a failure. 11 TD's and 11 INT's through 7 games? 4-3? what a sack of fail.

Gamechanger
11-05-2009, 09:53 PM
yep, it was Bush, about as rancid as your prediction

Shazam!
11-05-2009, 11:31 PM
ehh, even in the playoffs, Manning still had his off days

it wasn't until 03 till he won his first playoff game (HEHEHEHE)

i'm not putting Cutler on that echelon yet, if he gets himself straightened with a better coaching staff, he could be mentioned with those like Roethelisberger

to shoot a fair one though, I see him like Romo, IF i were to compare him to someone

My point is that Cutler has done nothing to warrant any kind of comparison to two of the greatest QBs of all time. A cannon arm is meaningless, just look at Jeff George. By reasoning the complaints of his INTs to comparisons to Manning or Farve is ridiculous. Both Manning and Farve had their teams in the playoffs within 2 years (sorry, Farve's year in Atlanta can't count with less than 10 pass attempts and not the starter). Cutler did nothing, was ineffective when his team needed him the most, throwing more INTs than TDs against some pretty lame teams in 2008. All the excuses are always lined up for him by the homers, the defense, OLine, WRs, coordinators, coaching, you name it. He sucks. Now if he had Montana's brain... hell, if he had Kyle Orton's brain, he'd be the next John Elway. He makes too many boneheaded mistakes and is a selfish, whiny bitch to top of the package of ugly.

ursamajor
11-06-2009, 04:13 PM
ehh, even in the playoffs, Manning still had his off days

it wasn't until 03 till he won his first playoff game (HEHEHEHE)

i'm not putting Cutler on that echelon yet, if he gets himself straightened with a better coaching staff, he could be mentioned with those like Roethelisberger

to shoot a fair one though, I see him like Romo, IF i were to compare him to someone

My point is, that Peyton's detractors like to throw all of that crap around early in his career. Either out of jealousy, or hate of the Colts. Look what he developed into. A lot of Jay's haters, and detractors throw the same crap out there about Jay. I'm willing to wait to see what he what he develops into.

ursamajor
11-06-2009, 04:17 PM
Cutler is a failure. 11 TD's and 11 INT's through 7 games? 4-3? what a sack of fail.

Warner must be a failure as well right? Best receiving tandem in football, and 11 tds and 11 ints through 7 games? 4-3? What a sack of fail :rolleyes:

ursamajor
11-06-2009, 04:18 PM
My point is that Cutler has done nothing to warrant any kind of comparison to two of the greatest QBs of all time. A cannon arm is meaningless, just look at Jeff George. By reasoning the complaints of his INTs to comparisons to Manning or Farve is ridiculous. Both Manning and Farve had their teams in the playoffs within 2 years (sorry, Farve's year in Atlanta can't count with less than 10 pass attempts and not the starter). Cutler did nothing, was ineffective when his team needed him the most, throwing more INTs than TDs against some pretty lame teams in 2008. All the excuses are always lined up for him by the homers, the defense, OLine, WRs, coordinators, coaching, you name it. He sucks. Now if he had Montana's brain... hell, if he had Kyle Orton's brain, he'd be the next John Elway. He makes too many boneheaded mistakes and is a selfish, whiny bitch to top of the package of ugly.

Jay has done nothing other than have similar stats. If you want to feign objectivity, then please base your posts more on reality, than hurt feelings.

ursamajor
11-06-2009, 04:24 PM
Cutler is a failure. 11 TD's and 11 INT's through 7 games? 4-3? what a sack of fail.

Wowsa! I would hate to see what your opinion of a QB that had 7 tds and 11 ints with a 4-3 record in 7 games. Lay it on me. How sucky is THAT QB?

Shazam!
11-06-2009, 08:41 PM
Jay has done nothing other than have similar stats. If you want to feign objectivity, then please base your posts more on reality, than hurt feelings.

The only thing I agree with you on is Jay has done nothing.

You compare him to some of the greatest QBs of all time and he hasn't won shit.

It is you who should try to feign objectivity and get back down to earth.

Ravage!!!
11-06-2009, 09:40 PM
The only thing I agree with you on is Jay has done nothing.

You compare him to some of the greatest QBs of all time and he hasn't won shit.

It is you who should try to feign objectivity and get back down to earth.

No he wasn't.

Manning was said to not have the ability to "win the big game." THat followed him all the way through college. Then once he hit the pro's... he again put up impressive numbers, but continued to lose in the playoffs.... not "able to win the big game."

In fact, Manning's first three trips TO the playoffs... he lost in the very first game. In 6 out of 9 trips to the playoffs, Peyton has lost in the first game. Not until he finally went to the SB in his NINETH year, did Manning finally break the "inability to win the big game" stigma. Manning's playoff record, is 7-8 (including the SB win) **a LOSING playoff record**.... FOUR of those 7 wins, came in the ONE year he went to the Super Bowl.

Steve Young didn't win the 'big game' but ONE time despite accumulating a 95-33 regular season record. In his 8 years starting, he went to the playoffs 7 of those years. YET.. his playoff record (including the SB win) is 8-7. (just a 53% winning percentage)

Elway.. was getting CLOBBERED in the Super Bowls. Many (out side of the denver fan-base of course)... continued to say Elway didn't play well in "big gmaes and could never win the big-one."


Point being ONE thing. People forget the 'label' "inability to win the big game" simply by them performing well in ONE of those games. Ursa wasn't comparing Cutler to the greats. He was comparing the MYTH that they couldn't win, or, couldn't win the big game simply because they hadn't done it YET. People want to claim/say/state/ that Cutler will never win the SB, is a loser, is "whatever" simply because he hasn't done it YET. Just as they said Manning wasn't a big game player, just as they said Elway and Young would never win a Super Bowl.

Northman
11-06-2009, 11:16 PM
People want to claim/say/state/ that Cutler will never win the SB, is a loser, is "whatever" simply because he hasn't done it YET.

Unfortuantely, its a double edged sword. For those who say he will never win one there is already people saying he will win one. Only time will tell but he could very well either end up like Peyton Manning or end up like Jeff George. So far in his career either one of those senario's is a real possibility for him.

Lonestar
11-06-2009, 11:46 PM
Unfortuantely, its a double edged sword. For those who say he will never win one there is already people saying he will win one. Only time will tell but he could very well either end up like Peyton Manning or end up like Jeff George. So far in his career either one of those senario's is a real possibility for him.


many folks staked their bets on jay being the next John or in some case better than John.. and pride Goethe before the fall..

jay just may come around down the road when he gets a group of near HOF players around him..:D

but IMO jay is more likely to be Jeff George than Peyton or John..

Shazam!
11-07-2009, 01:55 AM
It is simply INSANE to compare Jay Cutler to Hall of Fame QBs. Doing so is just being a blind homer. Even when comparing him to other Qbs labeled as 'they can't win the big one', those guys won HUGE games practically by themselves and were in the Playoffs. Cutler hasn't even done that.

By the same rationale, with his excellent winning percentage and high TD to INT ratio, I could say Kyle Orton is just like Joe Montana. He makes few mistakes, plays smart, wins games, was a leader and wasn't the best physical specimen.

...but that would be a total lie. See where I'm going with this? Both statements are equally ridiculous.

Devilspawn
11-07-2009, 03:08 AM
Was this thread meant to insult Cutler? I ask because... who loses when being compared to Russell?

Northman
11-07-2009, 10:57 AM
Was this thread meant to insult Cutler? I ask because... who loses when being compared to Russell?


You know, im trying to remember. Didnt the faid pass up on Young or Leinart at some point in that draft? I cant remember who they took first that year.

Ravage!!!
11-07-2009, 11:10 AM
It is simply INSANE to compare Jay Cutler to Hall of Fame QBs. Doing so is just being a blind homer. Even when comparing him to other Qbs labeled as 'they can't win the big one', those guys won HUGE games practically by themselves and were in the Playoffs. Cutler hasn't even done that.

By the same rationale, with his excellent winning percentage and high TD to INT ratio, I could say Kyle Orton is just like Joe Montana. He makes few mistakes, plays smart, wins games, was a leader and wasn't the best physical specimen.

...but that would be a total lie. See where I'm going with this? Both statements are equally ridiculous.

Shaz.. AGAIN.... you aren't reading what is being said.

Ursa wasn't comparing the PLAYER simply because he used those names.. he was saying he heard the SAME things about Manning (and someone else) bfore they won the big game. Peyton was said to play bad and lose the big game.... BEFORE he was able to win the big game. So if one says "he can't win the big game" and someone replies "well, they said the same thing about Manning." Thats not a comparison. Thats not saying "he's just as good as Manning" comment. That is a "lets wait and see, because the same things were being said about Manning as well." Meaning.. if THOSE comments can be made about some of the GREATEST QBs to ever play (and they were TRUE at the time), why couldn't a 'wait and see' approach be made with someone as "lousy" as you and OT wish to believe Cutler is???

Now if you want to go on and say that Cutler is never going to win a playoff game and doesn't have the talent to GO to the playoffs and doesn't have the talent to win a Super Bowl. Thats fine. Thats your opinion and you are welcome to stick to it. But you will probably get more of the "lets wait and see."

Devilspawn
11-07-2009, 01:49 PM
You know, im trying to remember. Didnt the faid pass up on Young or Leinart at some point in that draft? I cant remember who they took first that year.
Vince Young at least led his team to the playoffs. he had some win streak, I think it was 10 games. Leinart hasn't played a full season yet so I can't decide.

We took Huff that year, who's finally emerging as a fine safety, just not a #7 pick worthy safery.

Northman
11-07-2009, 01:56 PM
Vince Young at least led his team to the playoffs. he had some win streak, I think it was 10 games. Leinart hasn't played a full season yet so I can't decide.

We took Huff that year, who's finally emerging as a fine safety, just not a #7 pick worthy safery.

Yea, i was just trying to remember if Oakland passed on any of those guys for Huff. I couldnt remember.

Poet
11-07-2009, 02:37 PM
Yea, i was just trying to remember if Oakland passed on any of those guys for Huff. I couldnt remember.

They took a SAFETY at 7? DS, it's ok man, at least it wasn't Dan "Big Daddy but not in the nati because it's racist" Wilkinson.

Devilspawn
11-07-2009, 04:17 PM
They took a SAFETY at 7? DS, it's ok man, at least it wasn't Dan "Big Daddy but not in the nati because it's racist" Wilkinson.
Big Daddy. I remember him.

The Bills took a safety with the next pick, Donte Whitner, who I believe was tazed by police earlier this year.

The Raiders were sorely lacking in both safety positions. The problem after drafting Huff was that they put in at Strong Safety, which was the only DB position he didn't excel at. He did play well there, he had some solid games vs. Tony Gonzalez, Antonio Gates and others. But he should've been inserted as a free safety, which is where he is now.

I think that the Raiders would've taken Vince Young if Tennessee didn't. They should've taken Haloti Ngata.

Overtime
11-07-2009, 10:30 PM
Jay Cutler will never be a HOF QB. He'll never be a SUPER BOWL WINNING QB.

at the most he'll play in a Super Bowl and choke it away, and that's as close as he'll ever get, but that's if he's really lucky.

/end thread

claymore
11-07-2009, 10:37 PM
Same was said about Elway. Now he owns a steak house.

Poet
11-07-2009, 10:38 PM
Same was said about Elway. Now he owns a steak house.

One day I'll eat that steakhouse. (No typo).

red98
11-07-2009, 11:04 PM
Same was said about Elway. Now he owns a steak house.

2 stake houses.

Poet
11-07-2009, 11:51 PM
2 stake houses.

Whoa....I got my work cut out for me.

red98
11-08-2009, 12:03 AM
Whoa....I got my work cut out for me.

It's all about attitude...

Poet
11-08-2009, 12:04 AM
It's all about attitude...

Eye of the tiger!

Overtime
11-08-2009, 12:36 AM
Same was said about Elway. Now he owns a steak house.

Cutler doesn't have the maturity or leadership qualities of Elway. Elway had the leadership qualities right out of Stanford.

Cutler ain't got shit

claymore
11-08-2009, 12:37 AM
Cutler doesn't have the maturity or leadership qualities of Elway. Elway had the leadership qualities right out of Stanford.

Cutler ain't got shit

No he didnt. Elway was a mess when he got here. AND His numbers were SHIT!

red98
11-08-2009, 12:41 AM
No he didnt. Elway was a mess when he got here. AND His numbers were SHIT!

Please refrain from comparing John "the GOAT" Elway to anyone with less standing than our Lord, Jesus Christ. TIA

claymore
11-08-2009, 12:44 AM
Please refrain from comparing John "the GOAT" Elway to anyone with less standing than our Lord, Jesus Christ. TIA

The "Goat" wasnt as good as we remember him. The Goat wasnt near as good as Cutler in his first 3 years, and the "Goat" would have been traded as fast as Cutler was (In his first 3 years).

red98
11-08-2009, 12:54 AM
The "Goat" wasnt as good as we remember him. The Goat wasnt near as good as Cutler in his first 3 years, and the "Goat" would have been traded as fast as Cutler was (In his first 3 years).

Only if McKid was the man in charge Clay...



(Seriously, Elway's career cmp percentage was in the 50s, I think, when Shanny took over and his TD/int ratio was pretty bad too, not to mention his record for most sacks ever, etc. and all the haters were wrong.)

Overtime
11-08-2009, 01:36 AM
Elway took us to the playoffs his 2nd year....something Butthurtler has yet to accomplish (in the middle of his 4th year). :coffee:

Shazam!
11-08-2009, 02:24 AM
The "Goat" wasnt as good as we remember him. The Goat wasnt near as good as Cutler in his first 3 years, and the "Goat" would have been traded as fast as Cutler was (In his first 3 years).

C'mon now. You're saying Cutler is better. You're friggin' nuts.

1-Elway had played in Dan Reeves' stagnant offense that was more conservative than... me.

2-Many of his teams had a bunch of nobodys on them. There were only a handful of decent players with very few standouts. Denver's OL has been far and away superior to any of the OLs in Elway's early years, with the only good player on the Line of note was Keith Bishop. You couldn't compare someone like Kartz to Nalen, or Kay to Sharpe, that's a joke.

3-If he played under any kind of offensive coach, he'd have career numbers that are much, much higher. He was capable of so much more in his early years. Look what a guy like Jim Fassel did for him in one year. It's no coincidence that he had his best year statisticly under a new coordinator/QBs guy with an offense that was tailored more to his talents, and he was in his early thirties then.

4-Elway had a leadership quality, an aura that rubbed off on the team. Cutler has exhibited practically no leadership other than a penchant for pouting and whining.

5-He wouldn't have had to mount so many comebacks if Denver wasn't always coming from behind.

6-They wanted to play this power running game with mediocre Backs.

I would say I wish Shanahan took the job in 1993 when he was first offered it, but then he never would've learned what he did in SF which was vital to making him the coach he became.

Poet
11-08-2009, 02:25 AM
C'mon now. You're saying Cutler is better. You're friggin' nuts.

1-Elway had played in Dan Reeves' stagnant offense that was more conservative than... me.



:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

That's getting sigged.

Shazam!
11-08-2009, 02:42 AM
I'd like to see how Cutler would've fared in the 80's. To say in other eras of the NFL the D's were much tougher, bigger and physical is an understatement. They were brutal and able to do much more and the rules didn't have them handcuffed. Cutler could've cried himself to sleep on the sidelines.

Overtime
11-08-2009, 02:49 AM
I'd like to see how Cutler would've fared in the 80's. To say in other eras of the NFL the D's were much tougher, bigger and physical is an understatement. They were brutal and able to do much more and the rules didn't have them handcuffed. Cutler could've cried himself to sleep on the sidelines.

most likely some guy like Lawrence Taylor woulda squashed him, and he'd been carried off on a stretcher, sent to some mentally retarded hospital and put into a hospital room, propped up in a corner somewhere and left as a vegetable.

he wouldn'ta survived a full season.

Poet
11-08-2009, 02:54 AM
I would have enjoyed watching Cutler meet someone like Jack Lambert or Reggie White.

Medford Bronco
11-08-2009, 09:15 AM
I'd like to see how Cutler would've fared in the 80's. To say in other eras of the NFL the D's were much tougher, bigger and physical is an understatement. They were brutal and able to do much more and the rules didn't have them handcuffed. Cutler could've cried himself to sleep on the sidelines.

He would have cried even louder than he did last year.

He would have gotten his ass kicked and had his red zone turnovers go up even more. and still has not made the playoffs since high school.

With Elway it was not about numbers. It was about getting it done in the clutch and not choking in big moments ala Jeff George.

and once Elway got a real offense his last 6 years starting with the firing of Reeves his numbers got much better

check out his td int ratios from 1993 on

Medford Bronco
11-08-2009, 09:16 AM
I would have enjoyed watching Cutler meet someone like Jack Lambert or Reggie White.

You mean throw a pick to them or Mel Blount and it ended up in the end zone.

also no "Brady Rule" to protect him. Just ask Terry Bradshaw about getting his ass kicked on the field with no fairy flags to help him

EMB6903
11-08-2009, 11:21 AM
I'd like to see how Cutler would've fared in the 80's. To say in other eras of the NFL the D's were much tougher, bigger and physical is an understatement. They were brutal and able to do much more and the rules didn't have them handcuffed. Cutler could've cried himself to sleep on the sidelines.

this thread is still alive?

NFL players are now bigger stronger and faster, there is no doubt about that, rules are definately more lenient towards the quarterback but dont act like Cutler is some *****... Hes physically as tough as any quarterback ive ever seen, this is the same guy that lost 30 pounds battling uncontrolled diabetes for half a season... thats UNHEARD OF

hes definately a vagina off the field but the guy lowers his shoulder way more then he slides, He does not shy away from contact.

Overtime
11-08-2009, 12:44 PM
but dont act like Cutler is some *****...

uh yeah he is...mentally and physically.

ursamajor
11-08-2009, 07:29 PM
He'll never be a SUPER BOWL WINNING QB.

LOL. So long as Lovie remains the coach of the Chicago Bears, I suspect that you will be right.

Gamechanger
11-08-2009, 07:41 PM
I think Lovie has sealed his fate

but Tommie Harris is a dumbass too

Poet
11-08-2009, 07:47 PM
I think Lovie has sealed his fate

but Tommie Harris is a dumbass too

You ever look at a group of guys and go "I don't think many of them are actually stars, I think they're mostly a bunch of above average players surronded by above average plays,"? Because great players tend to step up and that entire defense is just ass. Like they have so many injuries I understand that they can't be the all-star cast of old, but still. They have no secondary and HOF linebacker is never on the field. I mean Briggs is still a beast but that's all they have.

Hell, their SB year they needed infinite help from their special teams to win games that they should have had little trouble winning. I guess the more I look back at the team the more obvious it is that they got lucky their frail players didn't start keeling over sooner. Now that I think about it, they may have been a two year fluke....

Overtime
11-08-2009, 07:57 PM
LOL. So long as Lovie remains the coach of the Chicago Bears, I suspect that you will be right.

he could have Bill Belichick as his head coach and it still wouldn't happen. It doesn't matter who Cutler's coach is, he'll never win a Super Bowl.

ursamajor
11-08-2009, 08:58 PM
You ever look at a group of guys and go "I don't think many of them are actually stars, I think they're mostly a bunch of above average players surronded by above average plays,"? Because great players tend to step up and that entire defense is just ass. Like they have so many injuries I understand that they can't be the all-star cast of old, but still. They have no secondary and HOF linebacker is never on the field. I mean Briggs is still a beast but that's all they have.

Hell, their SB year they needed infinite help from their special teams to win games that they should have had little trouble winning. I guess the more I look back at the team the more obvious it is that they got lucky their frail players didn't start keeling over sooner. Now that I think about it, they may have been a two year fluke....

No, the only person that could actually coach, got fired, and now works for the Chargers. That is what happened to the Bears defense.

Lovie blows. Under him Orton looked average (Proven he isn't) Benson looked like a bust (Proven he isn't) Berrian looked mediocre (Proven he isn't) Gage looked like he belonged on a practice squad (Shown he is better than that).

If it happens once, it is a coincidence. But over and over? It is more than a trend. It is undeniable fact that Lovie (Turner too) makes really good players look really bad.

KCL
11-08-2009, 09:02 PM
It doesn't matter who Cutler's coach is, he'll never win a Super Bowl.

You don't know this for sure...Cutler is young and still has several years left to play...provided he stays healthy.

Dreadnought
11-08-2009, 09:20 PM
No, the only person that could actually coach, got fired, and now works for the Chargers. That is what happened to the Bears defense.

Lovie blows. Under him Orton looked average (Proven he isn't) Benson looked like a bust (Proven he isn't) Berrian looked mediocre (Proven he isn't) Gage looked like he belonged on a practice squad (Shown he is better than that).

If it happens once, it is a coincidence. But over and over? It is more than a trend. It is undeniable fact that Lovie (Turner too) makes really good players look really bad.

I've come to Agree. Turner has that same family magic brother Norv does, and after watching today's game I swear to G-d body snatchers have replaced your defense with Bob Slowick's. That defense is just heinous all of a sudden. Sad thing is Cutler played extremely well today and it won't do a damned bit of good, because the rest of that team has totally gone off the rails now.

Gamechanger
11-08-2009, 09:44 PM
No, the only person that could actually coach, got fired, and now works for the Chargers. That is what happened to the Bears defense.

why was Rivera fired again?

ursamajor
11-08-2009, 09:47 PM
why was Rivera fired again?

Lovie had a problem with him. Intimidated was what the problem was I believe.

GEM
11-09-2009, 12:31 AM
One day I'll eat that steakhouse. (No typo).

I'll probably get shot for saying this here.....the food at Elway's isn't that great. Stopped in a couple times for lunch and wasn't much impressed.

Overtime
11-09-2009, 12:34 AM
I've come to Agree. Turner has that same family magic brother Norv does,

i was thinking more along the lines of Paul Hackett/Jimmy Raye magic....:D

BCJ
11-09-2009, 01:29 AM
he could have Bill Belichick as his head coach and it still wouldn't happen. It doesn't matter who Cutler's coach is, he'll never win a Super Bowl.

but, but he is the franchise QB.

Overtime
11-09-2009, 01:41 AM
but, but he is the franchise QB.

oh snap that's right...how could I forget...i mean after all so was Todd Blackledge in 1983. :rolleyes:

Medford Bronco
11-09-2009, 11:44 AM
oh snap that's right...how could I forget...i mean after all so was Todd Blackledge in 1983. :rolleyes:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

and so was Heath bar Shula of the Skins:laugh:

Medford Bronco
11-09-2009, 11:44 AM
but, but he is the franchise QB.

yes maybe on EA sports:laugh:

Lonestar
11-09-2009, 02:16 PM
While I have not seen his stats other than the most important one ANOTHER LOSS. Looks more and more like we won big time on this one.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

Watchthemiddle
11-09-2009, 04:00 PM
But but but..he has a howitzer.

But but but...he can scramble

But but but..he wen't to the Pro Bowl

But but but...he was a first round draft pick

No if's, and's, or butt's about it...Cutler has been overrated since day one.

How many times did the Bears offense punt yesterday? How many times did Scrambling rocket arm Cutty get put on his back?

Cutler is a defensive killer. Not in the sense of he is going to pick one apart, but in the sense that he is going to get his OWN defense killed because he can't keep his offense on the field.

The Bears fans are starting to see the light that many of us here have seen since draft day.

Overtime
11-09-2009, 05:46 PM
The Bears fans are starting to see the light that many of us here have seen since draft day.

Ok even I think this statement is a little unfair. Since draft day??? No. But I do think Bears fans are understanding what we saw from Jay in his first 2 1/2 years as a starter.

that was a little harsh Watch...even by my standards, and I'm always the first ******* to throw Cutler under the bus.

ursamajor
11-10-2009, 12:05 AM
But but but..he has a howitzer.

But but but...he can scramble

But but but..he wen't to the Pro Bowl

But but but...he was a first round draft pick

No if's, and's, or butt's about it...Cutler has been overrated since day one.

How many times did the Bears offense punt yesterday? How many times did Scrambling rocket arm Cutty get put on his back?

Cutler is a defensive killer. Not in the sense of he is going to pick one apart, but in the sense that he is going to get his OWN defense killed because he can't keep his offense on the field.

The Bears fans are starting to see the light that many of us here have seen since draft day.

:drum:

I wonder what the result would have been tonight with a 236 yard 2 td 0 int effort form the QB.

:coffee:

And for the "Butthurtler" moniker that others use here, I hear Jay's name in the mouth of a few embittered Broncos fans far more than I hear Jay comment on McDaniels or the Denver Organiation. Who is Butt Hurt?

red98
11-10-2009, 12:20 AM
:drum:

I wonder what the result would have been tonight with a 236 yard 2 td 0 int effort form the QB.

:coffee:

And for the "Butthurtler" moniker that others use here, I hear Jay's name in the mouth of a few embitter Broncos fans far more than I hear Jay comment on McDaniels or the Denver Organiation. Who is Butt Hurt?

Trading Cutler was the worst mistake this franchise ever made. That doesn't mean McKid can't overcome it, or that fans shouldn't be bitter that Jay wanted out, but it's still their worst move ever.

Shazam!
11-10-2009, 03:00 AM
Had Jay been playing tonight, he would've thrown 4 INTs. We know Jay Cutler all too well when he's running for his life.

Poet
11-10-2009, 03:07 AM
Had Jay been playing tonight, he would've thrown 4 INTs. We know Jay Cutler all too well when he's running for his life.

Yeah, I agree on this. Jay Cutler would have been embarrassed against that defense.

Shazam!
11-10-2009, 03:19 AM
Yeah, I agree on this. Jay Cutler would have been embarrassed against that defense.

We don't live in fantasyland where to some Cutler sits on the throne.

...and your opinion, as a Bengals fan, counts 2x as much.

ursamajor
11-10-2009, 04:52 AM
Yeah, I agree on this. Jay Cutler would have been embarrassed against that defense.Uhm ok? (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2009092011/2009/REG2/steelers@bears)

You sure about that? (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2007102112/2007/REG7/steelers@broncos)

ursamajor
11-10-2009, 04:56 AM
Had Jay been playing tonight, he would've thrown 4 INTs. We know Jay Cutler all too well when he's running for his life.
Must not have actually watched Bears and Steelers. Jay was running for his life. WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY YYYYYYYYYY More than Kyle was tonight.

How did this become a Orton/Cutler comaparison again?

claymore
11-10-2009, 07:56 AM
Had Jay been playing tonight, he would've thrown 4 INTs. We know Jay Cutler all too well when he's running for his life.

He would have also thrown some TD's too.

Either Orton or the Offensive Coordinator is crap.

Our line is highly over rated as or this system does not fit us.

We are not built to run the ball out of the Shotgun.

We need to adjust formations and playcalling that utilizes the talent we have.

I hate this offense. Not the players, but the boring 3 yard passes and -3 yard runs.

Gamechanger
11-10-2009, 11:13 AM
Had Jay been playing tonight, he would've thrown 4 INTs. We know Jay Cutler all too well when he's running for his life.

he's 2-0 against Pittsburgh though :confused:

ursamajor
11-10-2009, 11:48 AM
he's 2-0 against Pittsburgh though :confused:

Hey GC, now that Manning is a Machine, how worth it is it now, with what you get to watch Manning do, to have endured his growing pains in his early years? The "Playoffs?!!" rant. The "Cant win in the playoffs" hyberbole, etc

Poet
11-10-2009, 11:52 AM
he's 2-0 against Pittsburgh though :confused:

I watched both games (this year) and Pittsburgh wasn't getting after him like they got after Orton.

Then again, I really hate Jay Cutler, so I'm inclined to say he sucks at pretty much everything.

Shazam!
11-10-2009, 12:51 PM
Hey GC, now that Manning is a Machine, how worth it is it now, with what you get to watch Manning do, to have endured his growing pains in his early years? The "Playoffs?!!" rant. The "Cant win in the playoffs" hyberbole, etc

Once again, you essentially compare Cutler to one of the greatest QBs of all time. Manning was to the playoffs multiple times in his first few seasons. Cutler has not. You're delusional.

Gamechanger
11-10-2009, 12:53 PM
Hey GC, now that Manning is a Machine, how worth it is it now, with what you get to watch Manning do, to have endured his growing pains in his early years? The "Playoffs?!!" rant. The "Cant win in the playoffs" hyberbole, etc

it was worth every season to watch a franchise mature under a QB like Manning, and in 2006 finally seeing it pay off, and still seeing him in his prime, I take nothing away from it

and though Cutler has made an ass of himself a few times to the media, who hasn't? Manning sure has, Brady definitely did, and don't get anyone started on Favre (DISCLAIMER: I'm not making comparisons, so don't cherrypick)

I believe he'll mature, he's still young and he's still got time, he's starting over, just like Manning did when Dungy came to Indy in 2002

Gamechanger
11-10-2009, 12:55 PM
Once again, you essentially compare Cutler to one of the greatest QBs of all time. Manning was to the playoffs multiple times in his first few seasons. Cutler has not. You're delusional.

no he's not

and essentially, this is Cutlers second rookie season under a new system

Shazam!
11-10-2009, 01:17 PM
Oh please. PLEASE! This is un ****ing believable! There is nothing to compare Cutler to Manning. Nothing. Manning's been to the playoffs early in his career. Cutler has not. Manning is nowhere near a similar QB either.

Cutler has potential. So did 1,000 other QBs before Jay Cutler made the NFL what it is today. What a joke. All Cutler ever gets is excuses. It's pathetic.

Gamechanger
11-10-2009, 01:33 PM
if you can show me where I said anything about his skillset, record and resume' and COMPARING it to Manning, I will stop posting from here on out

Poet
11-10-2009, 01:44 PM
He would have also thrown some TD's too.

Either Orton or the Offensive Coordinator is crap.

Our line is highly over rated as or this system does not fit us.

We are not built to run the ball out of the Shotgun.

We need to adjust formations and playcalling that utilizes the talent we have.

I hate this offense. Not the players, but the boring 3 yard passes and -3 yard runs.
Your offensive line isn't overrated but they have stumbled. You haven't played the defenses like Pitt or Baltimore, next time your line will play better.

No team is really built to run the ball out of the shotgun but it will get better. I hate to beat a dead horse, but you are not a high powered offense. Your team is rarely ever (like all teams) going to drop big numbers on Pittsburgh or Baltimore. That's why they're Pittsburgh and Baltimore.

If you perform like this the NEXT time you run into Balt or Pittsburgh, then be worried.

Northman
11-10-2009, 05:43 PM
no he's not

and essentially, this is Cutlers second rookie season under a new system

Your smoking crack. I cant believe you have lowered yourself to this type of trollism.

Shazam!
11-10-2009, 07:35 PM
if you can show me where I said anything about his skillset, record and resume' and COMPARING it to Manning, I will stop posting from here on out

I wasn't directing it at you I was directing it at Ursa's posts that insinuates Cutler is the equal to any QB, HoFer or no.

'He throws a lot of INTs, but so did Manning and Farve' is ridiculous. Those guys were clutch already, been to the playoffs, won divisions, all early in their years. Cutler has done nothing of the sort, and when Denver needed him late in 2008 with their 'high powered offense' (to some) he shit his pants. He's into his 4th season and all there are is cries of who's to blame and excuses.

It is simply INSANE to compare Jay Cutler to Hall of Fame QBs. Doing so is just being a blind homer. Even when comparing him to other Qbs labeled as 'they can't win the big one', those guys won HUGE games practically by themselves and were in the Playoffs. Cutler hasn't even done that.


By the same rationale, with his excellent winning percentage and high TD to INT ratio, I could say Kyle Orton is just like Joe Montana. He makes few mistakes, plays smart, wins games, was a leader and wasn't the best physical specimen.

...but that would be a total lie. See where I'm going with this? Both statements are equally ridiculous.

I said this last week, and if someone can compare Cutler to Manning or Farve by his INTs, then this comparison is equally valid... because they're both ridiculous.

Gamechanger
11-10-2009, 08:43 PM
Your smoking crack. I cant believe you have lowered yourself to this type of trollism.

http://i27.tinypic.com/2evr9qr.jpg

but seriously, I say Cutler can still shine, but i'm speaking from an outside perspective

Shazam!
11-10-2009, 10:10 PM
but seriously, I say Cutler can still shine

I don't dispute that. I do have a problem with comparing him to HoF QBs who have excelled in the pressure cooker, playoffs and have had way more success at the same point in their careers as Cutler.

Despite stats, he has shown nothing but bad decisions and immaturity, that's jus the start of it. We have seen him fail and **** up time and time again. Some speak like we never saw him play. Unfortunately, Broncos fans know more about Cutler than Bears fans, we've seen him play 3x as much. Bears fans talk like we know nothing about Cutler.

ursamajor
11-10-2009, 11:37 PM
I don't dispute that. I do have a problem with comparing him to HoF QBs who have excelled in the pressure cooker, playoffs and have had way more success at the same point in their careers as Cutler.

Despite stats, he has shown nothing but bad decisions and immaturity, that's jus the start of it. We have seen him fail and **** up time and time again. Some speak like we never saw him play. Unfortunately, Broncos fans know more about Cutler than Bears fans, we've seen him play 3x as much. Bears fans talk like we know nothing about Cutler.

Blah Blah Blah. Here is a little perspective, Manning had a .500 record in his first 4 years and over 80 ints. I knew watching him, that he was something special though. I know watching Cutler that he is something special. People who dont allow their hurt feelings (this is why Stink's arguments carry no weight with me), and look at things objectively think the same. The writing is on the wall.

Cutler has a receiving corps that was considered by most to be the worst in football. A converted DB/Returner who showed promise at times, but was very raw. A 5th round rookie. A 2nd year player that had no catches his rookie season. A horrendous O-Line. As inept an OC as they come. Yet Jay is still on pace to throw for more than 4000 yards, and 28 tds. Yes he is on pace to throw for 24 ints as well. But hey I still love his play on field. He tries to make things happen. You think trying to be a game manager would have given him a better chance to win against Cincy and AZ?

Oh yeah, I wonder if Manning ever had a 24 int season in his first for years.

BTW, according your logic of post season success, Dilfer was a better QB than Marino. I bet they are firing up Trent's bust for Canton as we speak :rolleyes:

MOtorboat
11-10-2009, 11:38 PM
Blah Blah Blah. Here is a little perspective, Manning had a .500 record in his first 4 years and over 80 ints. I knew watching him, that he was something special though. I know watching Cutler that he is something special. People who dont allow their hurt feelings (this is why Stink's arguments carry no weight with me), and look at things objectively think the same. The writing is on the wall.

Cutler has a receiving corps that was considered by most to be the worst in football. A converted DB/Returner who showed promise at times, but was very raw. A 5th round rookie. A 2nd year player that had no catches his rookie season. A horrendous O-Line. As inept an OC as they come. Yet Jay is still on pace to throw for more than 4000 yards, and 28 tds. Yes he is on pace to throw for 24 ints as well. But hey I still love his play on field. He tries to make things happen. You think trying to be a game manager would have given him a better chance to win against Cincy and AZ?

Oh yeah, I wonder if Manning ever had a 24 int season in his first for years.

BTW, according your logic of post season success, Dilfer was a better QB than Marino. I bet they are firing up Trent's bust for Canton as we speak :rolleyes:

You keep telling yourself that. ;)

ursamajor
11-10-2009, 11:50 PM
You keep telling yourself that. ;)

So Cutler has an amazing corps of WRs? Great O-Line? Awesome OC?

Or Manning didnt have a .500 winning percentage in his first 4 years? He didnt have over 80 ints in that same span?

Not sure where your sarcasm is being directed at.

Or are you just hyper posting 1 liners to pad your post count? In order to make up for lost time due to the ban.

MOtorboat
11-10-2009, 11:53 PM
So Cutler has an amazing corps of WRs? Great O-Line? Awesome OC?

Or Manning didnt have a .500 winning percentage in his first 4 years? He didnt have over 80 ints in that same span?

Not sure where your sarcasm is being directed at.

Or are you just hyper posting 1 liners to pad your post count? In order to make up for lost time due to the ban.

You keep telling yourself that. ;)

ursamajor
11-11-2009, 12:24 AM
You keep telling yourself that. ;)

:laugh:

Shazam!
11-11-2009, 02:02 AM
Manning had a .500 record in his first 4 years and over 80 ints.

Manning made the playoffs in two of those seasons. What don't you understand about that?!


People who dont allow their hurt feelings (this is why Stink's arguments carry no weight with me), and look at things objectively think the same.

Umm. You're not objective whatsoever.


BTW, according your logic of post season success, Dilfer was a better QB than Marino. I bet they are firing up Trent's bust for Canton as we speak

Comparing Dilfer to Marino is ridiculous, equally ridiculous is comparing Cutler, who hasn't won a thing his whole career to HoF QBs.

However, while you made up this analogy that makes no sense, like your Cutler is as good as Farve and Manning...

Question for Dan Marino- "What was the biggest disappointment of your great NFL career?

Dan Marino- "I never won a Super Bowl."

Question for Trent Dilfer- "If you could, would you trade your career for Dan Marino's?"

Trent Dilfer- "No."

...and that's exactly how those questions would be answered.

You talk about how Broncos fans have such hurt feelings and how 'we're personally hurt for his rejection of McDaniels' (PLEASE) and bullshit stuff like that, but you're the complete opposite. Your face is planted firmly on Cutler's ass 24/7. All we hear all day is Cutler's sooo great, deserves comparison to HoFers, etc. etc. This is while not accomplishing shit, mistake prone play, bad character traits, immaturity, etc. etc. etc. The endless list of excuses year after year, defense, WRs, RBs, OLine, bad blocking, INT wasn't his fault, Coaching, coordinators, the list goes on and on.

You talk like we don't know Jay Cutler. NEWSFLASH- We all know more about Cutler than you do. I know for fact I've seen him play more than you. And that's just me.

You may not like all the negative things people have to say about Cutler on this BRONCOS BOARD, and that's understandable, because I suppose you can't comprehend how it was to have your QB QUIT ON YOU because the bad bad man, that little coach hurt his feelings. But trust me, your swinging from his balls posts are equally nauseating or worse.

ursamajor
11-11-2009, 04:19 AM
Manning made the playoffs in two of those seasons. What don't you understand about that?!



Umm. You're not objective whatsoever.



Comparing Dilfer to Marino is ridiculous, equally ridiculous is comparing Cutler, who hasn't won a thing his whole career to HoF QBs.

However, while you made up this analogy that makes no sense, like your Cutler is as good as Farve and Manning...

Question for Dan Marino- "What was the biggest disappointment of your great NFL career?

Dan Marino- "I never won a Super Bowl."

Question for Trent Dilfer- "If you could, would you trade your career for Dan Marino's?"

Trent Dilfer- "No."

...and that's exactly how those questions would be answered.

You talk about how Broncos fans have such hurt feelings and how 'we're personally hurt for his rejection of McDaniels' (PLEASE) and bullshit stuff like that, but you're the complete opposite. Your face is planted firmly on Cutler's ass 24/7. All we hear all day is Cutler's sooo great, deserves comparison to HoFers, etc. etc. This is while not accomplishing shit, mistake prone play, bad character traits, immaturity, etc. etc. etc. The endless list of excuses year after year, defense, WRs, RBs, OLine, bad blocking, INT wasn't his fault, Coaching, coordinators, the list goes on and on.

You talk like we don't know Jay Cutler. NEWSFLASH- We all know more about Cutler than you do. I know for fact I've seen him play more than you. And that's just me.

You may not like all the negative things people have to say about Cutler on this BRONCOS BOARD, and that's understandable, because I suppose you can't comprehend how it was to have your QB QUIT ON YOU because the bad bad man, that little coach hurt his feelings. But trust me, your swinging from his balls posts are equally nauseating or worse.I said a few bitter fans-namely those that throw out the most asinine comments. Jay had issue with the coach, not the fans, not the organzation. It is his career, just like every player in every sport, it is his prerogative to take it in the direction he chooses. If he doesnt want to play for a certain coach, and has the opportunity to go elsewhere, it is his right. I dont see you trash talking Marshall, and his antics were far more reprehensible. Still cant believe he punted that ball in practice.

Say I am swinging from his nuts, that's fine. Many a fans in Denver were swinging from Elway's nuts before he had ever even played a down. And rightfully so, you could see that he was a special talent. News flash Shazam, the rest of the world doesn't agree with you, Cutler is a special talent.

Oh, and name me one QB that played their way into the HOF in 4 years.

You and I both know that your hate is due to Cutler not being a Bronco anymore, not his lack of skill

From your thread "Flood the Broncos Inbox Damnit"


lol

Even if everyone just sent something like this-


KEEP CUTLER.

would make some kind of statement.

Northman
11-11-2009, 07:28 AM
Im said a few bitter fans-that throw out the most asinine comments. Jay had issue wit the coach. It is his career, just like every player in every sport. If he doesnt want to play for a certain coach, and has the opportunity to go elsewhere, it is his right. I dont see you trash talking Marshall, and his antics were far more reprehensible.

Say I am swinging from his nuts fine. Many a fans in Denver were swinging from Elway's nuts before he ever even played a down. And rightfully so, you could see that he was a special talent. News flash Shazam, the rest of the world doesn't agree with you, Cutler is a special talent.

Oh, and tell me one QB that played their way into the HOF in 4 years.

You and I both know that your hate is due to Cutler not being a Bronco anymore, not his lack of skill

From your thread "Flood the Broncos Inbox Damnit"


My only arguement with this Ursa is for every fan who thinks that Jay "has something special" there are a few of us who think he doesnt or hasnt shown it yet. Does he have physical talent? Yea. But i can point to many things that shows him more in the vein of Jeff George or Daunte Culpepper rather than Peyton Manning or Dan Marino. Fact is, i agree with you on this. After 4 years you cant label a QB a HOF'r and Cutler is no different. You say Shazam is butthurt of Jay not being a Bronco anymore. I say he just sees flaws in his game that he has not been able to overcome. Will Jay ever get out of it and into HOF status? Maybe. But so far in a new city i see the same problems i saw in Denver with his mechanics and taking care of the ball. And i see the same type of fans making the same excuses.

Peyton in his 2nd year went 13-3 with the 17th ranked defense. Sure, he had a young guy like James and Harrison that year. But, their defense was far worse than what Jay has at least according to the rankings. Do i think coaching is part of the problem there? Yea. But coaches dont turn the ball over. Coaches dont throw off their back foot. The thing is, great QB's are able to make players around them better. Right now, Peyton can make even the average receiver look like an allstar. Elway made quite a few receivers look better than they really were. I said at the beginning of the year that your Oline didnt give Orton enough time and a lot of you Bears fans scoffed and laughed at me saying Orton just wasnt very good. Even going as far to say that once you signed Pace that you had "fixed" the holes and shored up the line.

Now all of a sudden your line sucks? Which is it? I pointed out last year your defense was aging and starting to give up points and wasnt quite as good as it had been. Again, i was told that "we are healthy now and it will be dominate again". Well, you are ranked 11th and to my knowledge only Urlacher is out right now. I said you had no receiving core but was told Jay will just click with Bennett and Hester will finally have a guy who can get him the ball. As you've pointed out Hester is having a great year. And now Knox is showing signs of playing well. Jay's numbers are pretty high in terms of yardage but what are we not talking about?

Oh yea, the 12 Int's and 4 fumbles. 16 turnovers from ONE guy in his 4th year. Now, to be fair. Manning had 26 TD's, 23 Int's and 7 fumbles his 4th year however, he also had the 31st defense in the league. In the two years prior to that the Colts went 13-3 and 10-6 with a defense ranked 13th and 15th and those are pre-Dungy years so this is a case where the QB was able to carry his team when needed. Jay has rarely been able to show that he can be relied upon to carry the team when needed. Sure, he'll get a pass from me last year in some games because the defense was so bad. But, with the 11th ranked defense his excuses are starting to dwindle away. Can he be a HOF'r? Maybe. But so far in his short career i dont see the same command, persona, or character that i see from guys like Manning or Brady. Leaders dont pout on the bench when things look bleak. When the question is asked of your QB does the team have any leadership and you reply with "I dont know". Doesnt tell me personally that Jay Cutler is HOF material.

Do i want Jay to fail? Yes and no. His attitude has turned me off to him the last couple of years. It pisses me off that he cant get over minor issues and shrug them off. But moreso, i want him to fail because i dont want Denver to look back and say they "needed" him. I dont care what team you are, you never want to have to regret a player leaving that you had strong hopes for. But at the same time i really dont care about Jay Cutler. I care about the Broncos and we are 6-2 right now with a team that wins and loses as one. There is no comparing themselves to HOF'rs to the media before they even get to the playoffs, there is no crying and whining about the opponents QB's smack talking with him. This team just goes and plays.

Shazam!
11-11-2009, 10:08 AM
I agree with all the above North.

As far as my Thread about contacting the Broncos about keeping Cutler, that was when there was still a chance of him staying, before all the bullshit played out with his agent, him not returning calls from McD or Pat, etc. If you don't want to play for my team then don't let the door hit you on the way out. Marshall can be brought up, but that issue was nowhere near as big as Cutler's was. Stars don't whine and bitch about a team listening or even considering offers. Marino and Elway were considered for trades in their careers, I don't recall them stamping their feet and throwing hissy fits. Sure it bothered them and they made it publicly known, but they didnt essentially quit on the team because of it.

I've always said Cutler is talented, but at this point in his career, he is not comparable to HoF QBs who have done more for their teams in the same span. Any stats can be thrown out and they are irrelevent. Farve and Manning produced playoff teams and carried them when needed in their first years. Cutler has not. When Denver needed Cutler the most, good Jay didn't show up. Bad Jay did and he laid down like an old carpet, despite how bad the defense was.

Again, sure Broncos fans may not be objective with Cutler but neither can a Bears fan who thinks Cutler is the be all end all of NFL QBs, be they current future or enshrined HoFs. Many of us may not be objective, but weve seen him play far more than any Bears fan could have and we know what he's capable of, his strengths and weaknesses. His excuses are all exhausted.

Also, the references to 'experts and analysts' and what they have to say is meaningless. For every one there is on ESPN that showers Cutler with praise, there is another who is objective and will say for all his physical talents, he is a mistake-prone QB who makes boneheaded plays. ESPN is a joke anyway.

ursamajor
11-11-2009, 04:39 PM
Peyton in his 2nd year went 13-3 with the 17th ranked defense. Sure, he had a young guy like James and Harrison that year. But, their defense was far worse than what Jay has at least according to the rankings.

That is does make for good smack fodder North. And I am sure it was encouraging. But thoughts on it have always been that old question;

What is the difference between the team that loses the Super Bowl, and the worst team in the NFL? Draft Picks.

Northman
11-11-2009, 04:49 PM
That is does make for good smack fodder North. And I am sure it was encouraging. But thoughts on it have always been that old question;

What is the difference between the team that loses the Super Bowl, and the worst team in the NFL? Draft Picks.

Im not actually following you here. You lost me. Im not trying to smack with you as i think your one of the better Bears fans out there. But like everything else, i think some Jay fans mistake actual criticism of Jay's weaknesses vs just flat out hating on him. Like i said, the kid has talent but there are quite a few things that he hasnt overcome that leaves me to question if he ever will. When i look at guys like Manning, Brady, Ben, etc they pretty much overcome the more trivial stuff by their 3rd year. But, who knows. Maybe next year Jay will be a blossoming flower.

ursamajor
11-12-2009, 07:02 AM
Im not actually following you here. You lost me. Im not trying to smack with you as i think your one of the better Bears fans out there. But like everything else, i think some Jay fans mistake actual criticism of Jay's weaknesses vs just flat out hating on him.

My one handed pecking over the last few posts, have made for some painful reads. My bad. And I'm not trying to smack with you either. It is more painful to watch your team lose in the playoffs, than to miss them. It is most painful to watch them lose the superbowl. That is what my post meant

As for Jay...I do realize that he has a way to go before he is an elite talent. My love for his play stems from his heart, and the fire he plays with. Yes he has some bad tendencies that he needs to iron out.

That being said, I cant think of any QB that was a finished product in 4 seasons. When I speak of Great QBs like Manning, it is to illustrate the point that even the best of the best had some growing to do early on.


Like i said, the kid has talent but there are quite a few things that he hasnt overcome that leaves me to question if he ever will. When i look at guys like Manning, Brady, Ben, etc they pretty much overcome the more trivial stuff by their 3rd year. But, who knows. Maybe next year Jay will be a blossoming flower.

Brady didn't have a season with a QBR north of ninety until his 5th year.

Manning had 23 ints his 4th season, and another 19 in his 5th

Devilspawn
11-12-2009, 10:50 PM
Seems like the biggest difference between Cutler and Russell is that Cutler looks awesome when he's sucking. Russell doesn't have that talent. Cutler wins.

slim
11-12-2009, 11:01 PM
Seems like the biggest difference between Cutler and Russell is that Cutler looks awesome when he's sucking. Russell doesn't have that talent. Cutler wins.

Cutler sucks ass, but comparing him to Russell is an insult.

Devilspawn
11-12-2009, 11:05 PM
Cutler sucks ass, but comparing him to Russell is an insult.
So you do get the point.

Gamechanger
11-12-2009, 11:06 PM
that bear o-line looks like their about to go into hibernation

slim
11-12-2009, 11:08 PM
So you do get the point.

Not usually, but I think I do in this case.

Medford Bronco
11-12-2009, 11:32 PM
After tonight that was worse than any Jemarcus performance.

Jay is so freaking overrated it is not even funny.

Maybe the one pick where Hester fell down but the two in the end zone are inexcusable..

Maybe its Jay Red Zone Pick Cutler the fraud. :lol:

MOtorboat
11-12-2009, 11:34 PM
After tonight that was worse than any Jemarcus performance.

Jay is so freaking overrated it is not even funny.

Maybe the one pick where Hester fell down but the two in the end zone are inexcusable..

Maybe its Jay Red Zone Pick Cutler the fraud. :lol:

Oh, boy, there are a lot of people here, a lot, who look like complete idiots right now...

Overtime
11-12-2009, 11:35 PM
yeah I have yet to see JaMarcus Russell throw 5 picks...

Russell > Cutler.

Medford Bronco
11-12-2009, 11:36 PM
Oh, boy, there are a lot of people here, a lot, who look like complete idiots right now...

Jay sucks. That was embarassing

and I am not an idiot if that was what some are implying.

Reidman
11-12-2009, 11:46 PM
Oh, boy, there are a lot of people here, a lot, who look like complete idiots right now...

I was seriously wondering earlier today if we could have won the last two games if we still had Mr #6.... mainly because we've lacked any down field offense... but watching Cutler self destruct in the redzone reminded me why we all got so frustrated late in games with this guy. 300+ yds doesn't amount to jack shit if you can't score inside the 20...guess McDaniels might have known what he was doing after all.....

Medford Bronco
11-12-2009, 11:48 PM
I was seriously wondering earlier today if we could have won the last two games if we still had Mr #6.... mainly because we've lacked any down field offense... but watching Cutler self destruct in the redzone reminded me why we all got so frustrated late in games with this guy. 300+ yds doesn't amount to jack shit if you can't score inside the 20...guess McDaniels might have known what he was doing after all.....

wow a novel concept a coach wants to get rid of the overreated turnover maching at QB

Medford Bronco
11-12-2009, 11:49 PM
My one handed pecking over the last few posts, have made for some painful reads. My bad. And I'm not trying to smack with you either. It is more painful to watch your team lose in the playoffs, than to miss them. It is most painful to watch them lose the superbowl. That is what my post meant

As for Jay...I do realize that he has a way to go before he is an elite talent. My love for his play stems from his heart, and the fire he plays with. Yes he has some bad tendencies that he needs to iron out.

That being said, I cant think of any QB that was a finished product in 4 seasons. When I speak of Great QBs like Manning, it is to illustrate the point that even the best of the best had some growing to do early on.



Brady didn't have a season with a QBR north of ninety until his 5th year.

Manning had 23 ints his 4th season, and another 19 in his 5th

comparing Jay to Brady and Manning at the same stage of the careers is laugable.

Brady won 2 Super Bowls in his first 3 years starting and Manning besides the bad pick year was in the playoffs all the time. Something Jay has not done since HS and is not doing this year.

BroncoBJ
11-12-2009, 11:50 PM
:lol: .. Hilarious. I was scared he woudl throw a TD there at the end and win the game. :mad: But with thier next 2 games Philly and the Vikes.

Look like 4-7 will be here shortly.

Heres to a top 15 pick. :salute:

:lol: 17 interceptions.

But Jamarcus could never throw that many. He usually throws it away from every player around.

Devilspawn
11-12-2009, 11:56 PM
but jamarcus could never throw that many. He usually throws it away from every player around.
bingo!

Ravage!!!
11-13-2009, 11:07 AM
Ursa... There is no way to defend that many INTs. Just can't do it, no way, no how.

But I know this. I know when we made the 'big trade' for Champ Bailey, Champ was made to look like a CHUMP that first season we had him. ESPECIALLY on the prime time games we played that year. Any Sunday Night, Monday Night, or thursday games we had that year, Champ looked TERRIBLE. Ask Chad Ochocinco hwo much he liked playing Champ that season. People were laughing at us for trading away Portis for a "CB".. and those prime time games that first season was making those comments look right.

Champ was already considered a great player (and not just a great talent) when he was traded, and he couldn't "live up" to the hype. Champ himself said that he was trying to hard because of all the trade media. No reason to believe that someone that is trying to establish themselves, and live up to the 'high profile' trade... is suffering the same.

That being said... you guys are going to be FINE (better than fine) in the long run. So just grin and bear the gripes for now...take it and wait for the coming year.

ursamajor
11-13-2009, 03:44 PM
yeah I have yet to see JaMarcus Russell throw 5 picks...

Russell > Cutler.Im none to happy about the game. That being said, are you going to add every QB that has a *ugh* 5 pick game to that list of QBs that Russell is better than?

ursamajor
11-13-2009, 03:51 PM
Ursa... There is no way to defend that many INTs. Just can't do it, no way, no how.

But I know this. I know when we made the 'big trade' for Champ Bailey, Champ was made to look like a CHUMP that first season we had him. ESPECIALLY on the prime time games we played that year. Any Sunday Night, Monday Night, or thursday games we had that year, Champ looked TERRIBLE. Ask Chad Ochocinco hwo much he liked playing Champ that season. People were laughing at us for trading away Portis for a "CB".. and those prime time games that first season was making those comments look right.

Champ was already considered a great player (and not just a great talent) when he was traded, and he couldn't "live up" to the hype. Champ himself said that he was trying to hard because of all the trade media. No reason to believe that someone that is trying to establish themselves, and live up to the 'high profile' trade... is suffering the same.

That being said... you guys are going to be FINE (better than fine) in the long run. So just grin and bear the gripes for now...take it and wait for the coming year.

These damn growing pains suck :mad:

Indy is only a few hors drive from Chicago. Maybe Jay should intern as Peyton's personal assistant this offseason, and try to pick Manning's brain.

But hey if you are going to go, go big. 5 picks hellz yeah, let your balls hang out.

Woosa. Woosa.

I am at a loss for words about how I feel about 5 picks. Ill leave it to the best at venting when your QB takes a dump on the field.

Qwq7BYOnDrM

Poet
11-13-2009, 03:52 PM
Ursa, if it makes you feel any better, I remember watching Akili Smith play.

ursamajor
11-13-2009, 03:54 PM
Ursa, if it makes you feel any better, I remember watching Akili Smith play.

It doens't. You know that. Im not saying that Jay is hopeless. But Im not happy right now.

Ravage!!!
11-13-2009, 03:58 PM
These damn growing pains suck :mad:

Indy is only a few hors drive from Chicago. Maybe Jay should intern as Peyton's personal assistant this offseason, and try to pick Manning's brain.

But hey if you are going to go, go big. 5 picks hellz yeah, let your balls hang out.

Woosa. Woosa.

I am at a loss for words about how I feel about 5 picks. Ill leave it to the best at venting when your QB takes a dump on the field.

Qwq7BYOnDrM

Yeup.. it was tough to watch for sure. But when you think about it, his really BAD games have come this year on the 'thursday' night or sunday night games.... Nine picks in just the GB and this game...and I don't think its a coincidence.

*shrugs* No excuses for him. But there just aren't that many high media trades....the two biggest I can think of was Champ for Portis, and this one. So I can only try to draw comparisons between the two. Champ played terrible that first year on prime-time games.... and he said himself that he tried too hard to try and justify that trade to everyone... media, fans, teammates....that he just couldn't relax. Wasn't until the next season when things settled for him. I think the same will be with Jay.

Gamechanger
11-13-2009, 06:31 PM
even though five picks are inexcusable on STATS, they could be understandable somewhat

three of those picks were because receivers ran the wrong routes or couldn't finish the routes

the first and the last one WAS on him

as I said before also, two of their starting linemen (Pace, Kruetz) are on the back-9 of their careers

if anything, offensively, I'd blow up the Offensive scheme, too predictable, too vanilla, personnel not good enough

another thing, IF Lovie is fired, they should be sure to keep Marinelli, that defensive line was playing lights out last night

Ravage!!!
11-13-2009, 06:43 PM
even though five picks are inexcusable

three of those picks were because receivers ran the wrong routes or couldn't finish the routes

the first and the last one WAS on him

as I said before also, two of their starting linemen (Pace, Kruetz) are on the back-9 of their careers

another thing, IF Lovie is fired, they should be sure to keep Marinelli, that defensive line was playing lights out last night

yeah.... three could be blamed on others.. but, even as much of a Cutler advocate I am.. I know better than to do that around here.

I know you can't, but how many INTs has Cutler had on just the late games this year? I know 9 from just the GB and SF game, and I believe the other prime-time game he had a bad game. In fact, many articles talked about how the prime-time games had been brutal on Jay this year. GB-4, Atlanta-2, and now San Fran-5

So that means Jay has thrown 11 out of 17 INTs in just three of the games. Thats 64% of the total INTs were thrown in just 33% of the games. Meaning, he averages just 1 INT a game outside the Sunday Night games.

As long as Chic doesn't have any more Sunday Night or monday night games.. I think he'll be fine :D

Poet
11-13-2009, 06:46 PM
Ravage, when he's bad he's REALLY bad. As it stands right now Jay Cutler isn't going to win you many games is and LOSING you games. Jay Cutler isn't even a top 15 QB this year.

Ravage!!!
11-13-2009, 06:56 PM
Ravage, when he's bad he's REALLY bad. As it stands right now Jay Cutler isn't going to win you many games is and LOSING you games. Jay Cutler isn't even a top 15 QB this year.

I'm not saying anything to the contrary to that. But I know (feel very confident anyway)... that it won't be the same going into the last part of the season and won't be the same next year.

It just sounds like excuse making, but I don't have a worry in the world about him being the kind of QB that Chicago wants him to be. I just don't. Cutler will be fine in the long run.

Despite everything.. I honestly do think that players try to 'prove' that they are worth the trade. Champ said it happened to him, and he was already a proved CB. So I think Jay has taken that same blow. But I personally have no worries about him rebounding after this year.

Day1BroncoFan
11-13-2009, 07:23 PM
Jay Intler is my hero.

Really though, I like he's having a bad year. I have not seen him do anything that make me think his career will be any different from this year. He has played like this since he started in the NFL. May be he'll improve, may be he won't. I just don't think he deserves all the hype he gets.

Lonestar
11-13-2009, 08:25 PM
Jay is jay this is nothing new. He has been a red zone disaster from day one.

For that matter so was jeff george.



Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel

slim
11-13-2009, 08:37 PM
The Jay/Russell comparison is not a bad one....except that Russell keeps himself in much better shape.

topscribe
11-13-2009, 10:24 PM
yeah.... three could be blamed on others.. but, even as much of a Cutler advocate I am.. I know better than to do that around here.

I know you can't, but how many INTs has Cutler had on just the late games this year? I know 9 from just the GB and SF game, and I believe the other prime-time game he had a bad game. In fact, many articles talked about how the prime-time games had been brutal on Jay this year. GB-4, Atlanta-2, and now San Fran-5

So that means Jay has thrown 11 out of 17 INTs in just three of the games. Thats 64% of the total INTs were thrown in just 33% of the games. Meaning, he averages just 1 INT a game outside the Sunday Night games.

As long as Chic doesn't have any more Sunday Night or monday night games.. I think he'll be fine :D

Makes sense. For instance, two of Orton's picks could be blamed on others,
but I know better than to do that around here.

So, outside this last Monday night, how many picks has Orton had? Zero,
unless you count the Hail Mary pass in the NE game. So that means Kyle has
thrown 3 out of 3 picks in just one game, meaning he has NO picks outside
the Monday night games.

As long as Kyle doesn't have any more Monday night games . . . oh wait . . .
there was San Diego, wasn't there?

-----

Shazam!
11-14-2009, 03:42 AM
These damn growing pains suck

Wait, wait. What?

Jay had his growing pains in Denver. He is now in his 4th season.

You really need to get back down to earth.

ursamajor
11-14-2009, 03:01 PM
Wait, wait. What?

Jay had his growing pains in Denver. He is now in his 4th season.

You really need to get back down to earth.

Even the best were still having growing pains in their 4th and 5th years. My feet are firmly planted on terra.

You would have been screaming for Manning to get benched in his 4th year.

Denver Native (Carol)
11-14-2009, 04:46 PM
Even the best were still having growing pains in their 4th and 5th years. My feet are firmly planted on terra.

You would have been screaming for Manning to get benched in his 4th year.

My son and I were talking about Cutler earlier today, and we both agreed - i.e. he has all the physical talents in the world to be a franchise quarterback, but unless he changes, he will never make it, because he has the one trait that will keep him from being a franchise quarterback - at this point --------


HE IS UNCOACHABLE

Shazam!
11-14-2009, 11:20 PM
Even the best were still having growing pains in their 4th and 5th years.

A ton of QBs didn't refine their game until later in their careers, but they also had undoubted flashes earlier on, winning games by themselves and making the playoffs. Cutler has done none of these things. He has shown more negatives then positives, and even in 2008, his Pro Bowl year, he didn't deserve it. He was thoroughly outplayed and not just statisticly by Rivers, we all here knew it.


You would have been screaming for Manning to get benched in his 4th year.

Please stop comparing the two, deny it all you want but that's what you continually do. Cutler is not even close to Manning on any level in any way, and you're playing with yourself if you seriously believe that. Cutler is barely Jake friggin' Plummer let alone Manning. You're just being a homer.

Poet
11-15-2009, 12:48 AM
I'm going to compare Cutler to Palmer.

Both have strong arms, can be accurate, both were pretty mobile and both had great receivers to throw to and both had a great offensive line. Palmer had the advantage of being able to sit an entire year and he had a real mentor in Jon Kitna. Cutler has had much easier competition but Palmer had a HOF WR (this is my opinion and not a main talking point, let it alone if you disagree) and more well rounded and developed talent to play with.

Now I'm not going to slaughter Cutler for his paly style because it works. Guys like Favre and Tarkenton have shown you CAN win with his style.

Jay Cutler isn't a leader. For a long time Carson Palmer wasn't. I won't kill him for that either. Drew Brees was not a leader in SD, Big Ben has only recently become the leader in Pitt, Tom Brady wasn't a leader up until a few years ago. It takes a lot of time to earn it. Hell, Eli Manning was only considered a leader after he won his Super Bowl.

This is why I will kill Jay Cutler; I've seen Carson Palmer win a game for Cincinnati only to watch the defense or the special teams piss it away. I've seen Peyton Manning and Tom Brady come back in the fourth quarter and just end the game. I've seen Ben Roethlisberger make it feel like a game winning drive was inevitable. Every guy on that list at one point or another has put the fear of god in his opponents.

Jay Cutler puts the fear of god in his coaches. Does he have great talent? Jay Cutler probably has the best arm in football. Actually, JaMarcus Russell may have him beat, which proves my point. And no, great arms aren't that overrated because being able to throw the deep ball IS important.

Jay Cutler has more talent than Carson Palmer, especially after Palmer's knee surgery. But Palmer has been a class act in a city with one of the worst owners ever and he was surronded by the "criminal cats" for years and he never said anything. He has handled the circus that is Chad Johnson better than anyone has ever handled a screw ball WR and he has put up remarkable stats when you consider his offensive line has sucked from 06 onward.

This isn't a "LOL PALMER PWNS CUTLER" post. My point is that if I took every other great QB in this game and compared them to Cutler you're going to see the same things.

Now don't tell me that Cutler's screwed in Chicago with the guys he has. He plays in the weak conference in a division that LOOKED like it was strong when in reality it's never been anything but a one horse race. As bad as Cutler's line has been look at Aaron Rodgers' (who honestly has done amazing this year).

I don't want to hear about the lack of WRs either. Manning, Brady, Palmer, Brees, Ben etc etc etc spread the ball around. Cutler locked into Marshall (which is ironic because I think he's pretty damn overrated too, still top ten, not top five) and it padded their stats.

It is mental, and he's been spoiled. In college he didn't win because he played on an awful team, that's fine. In the pros it was San Diego's division, not his fault... but then when it came time for him to start to carry his squad he failed. Yes, he had a terrible defense, but his divisoin was so bad that if he beat, what, the Raiders or the Bills you won the division? So despite the division being served up for you Jay Cutler played a monumental role in the team's failure.

That's fine. It really is. Ben Roethlisberger has only recently become an actual QB. It was 2007 before he actually averaged over 20 throws a game and most of his throws were screens, short routes, playaction passes or things of that nature. Now he's beastly and honestly he scares the hell out of me.

Will Jay Cutler be fine? I think he will. Will I ever root for him? I will root for Jay Cutler if a tradegy befalls him that I wouldn't wish on anyone. For example I hate Barry Bonds and Brett Favre but I was cheering for them fiercely when their fathers passed. That's pretty much it.

In essence I think he's going to be good, maybe even great, but right now he's a VERY poor man's version of Tony Romo.

jhildebrand
11-15-2009, 02:41 AM
Cutler just got paid.
He will be in Chicago for a while.
He is still new in the locker room and can't really make waves even after the Urlacher issue.
Cutler had problems with Ron Turner. Cutler's dad still has issues with Ron Turner as was reported immediately following the trade to Chicago.
Cutler had a good relationship with Jeremy Bates and even that was notoriously contentious

Maybe, just maybe, Cutler is INT-ing Ron Turner and Lovie Smith right out of Chicago!

Northman
11-15-2009, 08:39 AM
It doens't. You know that. Im not saying that Jay is hopeless. But Im not happy right now.


And you shouldnt be. As a fan when you make a trade for what is supposed to be "the" guy to run your team you should expect better than this. I know the defense hasnt played spectacular all year round but when you defense does show up and you Qb cant make the plays necessary to win the ballgame (especially when your team desperately needs to get a win) it just does not bode well. Generally with Qb's you start to see a progression on their performance and unfortuantely for Jay he has been regressing and not learning from his mistakes. Still a lot of football left but one does have to wonder if Jay will ever be "that" guy.

broncophan
11-15-2009, 09:02 AM
And you shouldnt be. As a fan when you make a trade for what is supposed to be "the" guy to run your team you should expect better than this. I know the defense hasnt played spectacular all year round but when you defense does show up and you Qb cant make the plays necessary to win the ballgame (especially when your team desperately needs to get a win) it just does not bode well. Generally with Qb's you start to see a progression on their performance and unfortuantely for Jay he has been regressing and not learning from his mistakes. Still a lot of football left but one does have to wonder if Jay will ever be "that" guy.

That's O.K.................

The contract extension that Cutler was signed to a few weeks ago should make Bears fans feel pretty good about the future....:D

Medford Bronco
11-15-2009, 09:37 AM
That's O.K.................

The contract extension that Cutler was signed to a few weeks ago should make Bears fans feel pretty good about the future....:D

A future of 7-9 seasons:lol:

Lonestar
11-15-2009, 11:22 AM
IIRC the defense is getting old and with giving up a couple day one picks for jay and the OLT that has been geting beat like a rented mule, this team is in a world of hurt.

Jay has all the tools except IMHO between the ears. His EGO will be his downfall just like jeff george, unless he finally "gets it".

But so far I don't see it happeing.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel

Medford Bronco
11-15-2009, 11:40 AM
IIRC the defense is getting old and with giving up a couple day one picks for jay and the OLT that has been geting beat like a rented mule, this team is in a world of hurt.

Jay has all the tools except IMHO between the ears. His EGO will be his downfall just like jeff george, unless he finally "gets it".

But so far I don't see it happeing.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel

George actually played in Bowl games and did make the palyoffs with Atlanta and the Vikings.

When is Mr Overrated ever getting there :confused:

He is in his 4th year and still makes rookie mistakes

jay Red Zone Interception Ann Culter