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R3N
10-18-2009, 10:52 PM
I'll start off by saying I'm a die-hard Vikings fan. What brings me to your forums today is a certain CB we have on our roster, that was a former Bronco. His name is Karl Paymah. He is probably the worst thing I've ever seen in pass coverage. My question to all of you is, was he as bad as I make it seem, when he was a Bronco? Because in all honesty, this guy really sucks. He can't tackle for shit, he can't play man coverage, and he can't play zone coverage. He was forced into action today because our usual starter (Antoine Winfield) went out early with an injury but after today I pray to God he never takes the field for another defensive series with the Vikings. He was thrown at all day, and he made 1 play the entire game, which he started 97% of the defensive snaps.

Please tell me there is some hope for this lost cause. :tsk:

girler
10-18-2009, 10:54 PM
I'll start off by saying I'm a die-hard Vikings fan. What brings me to your forums today is a certain CB we have on our roster, that was a former Bronco. His name is Karl Paymah. He is probably the worst thing I've ever seen in pass coverage. My question to all of you is, was he as bad as I make it seem, when he was a Bronco? Because in all honesty, this guy really sucks. He can't tackle for shit, he can't play man coverage, and he can't play zone coverage. He was forced into action today because our usual starter (Antoine Winfield) went out early with an injury but after today I pray to God he never takes the field for another defensive series with the Vikings. He was thrown at all day, and he made 1 play the entire game, which he started 97% of the defensive snaps.

Please tell me there is some hope for this lost cause. :tsk:

Well... he's got a cool name. :noidea:

Slick
10-18-2009, 10:54 PM
I'll start off by saying I'm a die-hard Vikings fan. What brings me to your forums today is a certain CB we have on our roster, that was a former Bronco. His name is Karl Paymah. He is probably the worst thing I've ever seen in pass coverage. My question to all of you is, was he as bad as I make it seem, when he was a Bronco? Because in all honesty, this guy really sucks. He can't tackle for shit, he can't play man coverage, and he can't play zone coverage. He was forced into action today because our usual starter (Antoine Winfield) went out early with an injury but after today I pray to God he never takes the field for another defensive series with the Vikings. He was thrown at all day, and he made 1 play the entire game, which he started 97% of the defensive snaps.

Please tell me there is some hope for this lost cause. :tsk:

He sucks, and he will probably continue to suck. Don't tell NUB I said that.

Day1BroncoFan
10-18-2009, 10:55 PM
He sucks. You have no hope other than cutting him. He sucked here.

KCL
10-18-2009, 10:56 PM
Quit your bitching, your team is undefeated...:laugh:

GEM
10-18-2009, 11:01 PM
I watched him get his ass handed to him today and just said, Thank goodness he's gone.

On the other side, Foxy looked pretty decent for Baltimore.

R3N
10-18-2009, 11:01 PM
Hey! so is yours :salute:

GEM
10-18-2009, 11:02 PM
Hey! so is yours :salute:

KCL is a Chiefs fan.;)

KCL
10-18-2009, 11:02 PM
Hey! so is yours :salute:

:lol: No it isn't and I want Jared Allen back...:tsk:

R3N
10-18-2009, 11:02 PM
I watched him get his ass handed to him today and just said, Thank goodness he's gone.

On the other side, Foxy looked pretty decent for Baltimore.

Foxworth only looked decent for Baltimore cuz Sidney Rice was owning Frank Walker all game on the opposite side. ;)

R3N
10-18-2009, 11:03 PM
:lol: No it isn't and I want Jared Allen back...:tsk:


Oo ur a cheifs fan. keep on truckin man :cool:

Lol, JA is my favourite Viking. U cant have him back

GEM
10-18-2009, 11:04 PM
Foxworth only looked decent for Baltimore cuz Sidney Rice was owning Frank Walker all game on the opposite side. ;)

I wonder why....never even heard the name Frank Walker before. :laugh: If Foxy is their best CB, they have issues.

GEM
10-18-2009, 11:04 PM
Jared Allen is a freakin beast! He's fun to watch.

R3N
10-18-2009, 11:05 PM
Jared Allen is a freakin beast! He's fun to watch.

Even funner now that he's in the NFC eh? :laugh:

KCL
10-18-2009, 11:06 PM
Jared Allen is a freakin beast! He's fun to watch.

Damn you Carl Peterson :rant:

GEM
10-18-2009, 11:08 PM
Even funner now that he's in the NFC eh? :laugh:

I enjoy watching NFC games. They don't have as much impact on my Broncos. I do LOVE, LOVE, LOVE seeing Cutler getting sacked or throwing INT's. :D I'd truly love to see Jared Allen manhandle that little pansy. :D

R3N
10-18-2009, 11:23 PM
In due time, Cutler will be looking through the turf.

Day1BroncoFan
10-18-2009, 11:25 PM
I like seeing cutler on his butler.

Shazam!
10-18-2009, 11:25 PM
Jay Cutler sucks. I hate how he seeps into nearly every ******* thread. **** him.

ikillz0mbies
10-18-2009, 11:26 PM
this thread is funny. i don't think i've ever seen a thread where a new member signs up only to complain how bad a former bronco is. and yes, paymah is terrible. he can't tackle and is always lost in coverage. foxworth isn't great either, but if i would have to pick the better of them, i would say foxworth is better than paymah.

all in all though, i'm glad they're both gone from the team. the broncos defense had players that can't tackle a piece of paper to a broncos defense with players that know their assignments, aggressive, and can make tackles.

R3N
10-18-2009, 11:27 PM
Ye, the thread is kinda lame but I had to vent my frustration and find some answers on that fool.

KCL
10-18-2009, 11:28 PM
Ye, the thread is kinda lame but I had to vent my frustration and find some answers on that fool.

Have you tried talking to Childress? :laugh:

R3N
10-18-2009, 11:30 PM
Nope, but if i did, i'd tell him to stop being so conservative and of course, to cut paymah.

KCL
10-18-2009, 11:32 PM
Nope, but if i did, i'd tell him to stop being so conservative and of course, to cut paymah.

It looks like things are going well and he has it under control...good win today..The Vikes dodged a bullet with that missed FG.

R3N
10-18-2009, 11:34 PM
We dodge bullets weekly. Apperently though I'm the only sane Vikings fan that realizes we should be 4-2. Most others were already posting "Suber Bowl!" after week 2. It's pathetic.

ikillz0mbies
10-18-2009, 11:35 PM
It looks like things are going well and he has it under control...good win today..The Vikes dodged a bullet with that missed FG.

No not good. I had the Ravens kick on my fantasy team and I needed all the points I can get haha.

KCL
10-18-2009, 11:41 PM
No not good. I had the Ravens kick on my fantasy team and I needed all the points I can get haha.

oops..sorry about that...I do not like Baltimore...:lol:

honz
10-18-2009, 11:56 PM
The next time Paymah finds the ball in the air will be the first time.

shank
10-19-2009, 12:00 AM
for a while, i really thought that paymah was going to develop into a good corner for us...

Lonestar
10-19-2009, 12:05 AM
I can remember back when we drafted them, Williams, Paymah and Foxworth..

hearing how great they were and that Paymah had the biggest upside..:laugh::laugh::laugh:

how many times did we hear that over the years.. only to almost never have a rookie get a second contract..


and y'all wonder why this team needed an almost total rebuild?

Requiem / The Dagda
10-19-2009, 12:15 AM
^ . . . and away from the Shanahan bashing. . .

No, there probably isn't much hope for you as a Vikings fan to assume that Karl will get much better. Being close to Skol country, I've heard a lot of fans wondering about how he'd do for the team, and quite frankly I can't believe people had relatively high expectations for him. He was a good press guy in coverage because he has decent size, but it doesn't seem like he has been able to transition well to the pros. Karl has been, and always will be a subpackage defender. Congratulations on another come from behind victory. I've grown to dislike the Vikings being around this area, but credit needs to be given when it is due.

Welcome to the forums, by the way. Feel free to post whenever you'd like!

Lonestar
10-19-2009, 12:20 AM
hey dream the fact are what they are.. mike wasted alot of coin in the draft and for the most part his FA were not all that much better..

his only salvation were his last couple of drafts..

Shazam!
10-19-2009, 12:23 AM
I can remember back when we drafted them, Williams, Paymah and Foxworth..

hearing how great they were and that Paymah had the biggest upside..:laugh::laugh::laugh:

how many times did we hear that over the years.. only to almost never have a rookie get a second contract..


and y'all wonder why this team needed an almost total rebuild?

After DWill's tragic demise, they had to go sign a FA CB, and not one of their other two draftees was capable of being a FT Starter. Pathetic.

Requiem / The Dagda
10-19-2009, 12:43 AM
hey dream the fact are what they are.. mike wasted alot of coin in the draft and for the most part his FA were not all that much better..

his only salvation were his last couple of drafts..

Which wasn't the point of the thread. Karl Paymah and him sucking was the point of the thread. We could do without the underhand Mike Shanahan sucks statements in the guise of legitimate concerns regarding Karl.

Lonestar
10-19-2009, 12:46 AM
Which wasn't the point of the thread. Karl Paymah and him sucking was the point of the thread. We could do without the underhand Mike Shanahan sucks statements in the guise of legitimate concerns regarding Karl.


the point of the thread was to discuss if he sucked and to do so needs back ground especially for those that do not know the history..

if you do not want to read my stuff ignore it.. it will not hurt my feelings..

Shazam!
10-19-2009, 12:56 AM
Paymah was drafted by the Broncos and Shanahan. Unfortunately, it is relevant.

dogfish
10-19-2009, 01:04 AM
I'll start off by saying I'm a die-hard Vikings fan. What brings me to your forums today is a certain CB we have on our roster, that was a former Bronco. His name is Karl Paymah. He is probably the worst thing I've ever seen in pass coverage. My question to all of you is, was he as bad as I make it seem, when he was a Bronco? Because in all honesty, this guy really sucks. He can't tackle for shit, he can't play man coverage, and he can't play zone coverage. He was forced into action today because our usual starter (Antoine Winfield) went out early with an injury but after today I pray to God he never takes the field for another defensive series with the Vikings. He was thrown at all day, and he made 1 play the entire game, which he started 97% of the defensive snaps.

Please tell me there is some hope for this lost cause. :tsk:

so you want us to lie to you?


sorry, but to put it bluntly your coverage is screwed if you have to rely on paymah. . . the guy actually has legitimate physical skills to go along with a good frame, but he has next to nothing in the way of instincts or recognition/diagnosis ability. . . he plays tentative and is lost in any kind of zone or off-man coverage. . . you'd probably be just as well off bringing somebody up from a practice squad-- at the very least you could find a less physically gifted player who would make mistakes at full speed. . .

good luck with it, though. . . i like the vikes-- they were my "second favorite" team back in the days of anthony carter, zimmerman and mcdaniel, chris doleman, keith millard, jesse solomon and joey browner. . . and AD is my favorite non-bronco player in the league. . . i'd like to see you guys or new orleans represent the NFC this year. . . .

BCJ
10-19-2009, 01:34 AM
I have been wrong a few times and Paymah was one of them. I loved how he played against the Cards in Cutler's first win. When we lost our starting CB DW to lead poison, I was relieved that we had at least a good one to replace him with. He just never improved. I admit i was wrong on Karl.

TXBRONC
10-19-2009, 07:29 AM
Quit your bitching, your team is undefeated...:laugh:

Congratulation on the Chiefs getting their first victory of the year. :salute:

TXBRONC
10-19-2009, 07:34 AM
I'll start off by saying I'm a die-hard Vikings fan. What brings me to your forums today is a certain CB we have on our roster, that was a former Bronco. His name is Karl Paymah. He is probably the worst thing I've ever seen in pass coverage. My question to all of you is, was he as bad as I make it seem, when he was a Bronco? Because in all honesty, this guy really sucks. He can't tackle for shit, he can't play man coverage, and he can't play zone coverage. He was forced into action today because our usual starter (Antoine Winfield) went out early with an injury but after today I pray to God he never takes the field for another defensive series with the Vikings. He was thrown at all day, and he made 1 play the entire game, which he started 97% of the defensive snaps.

Please tell me there is some hope for this lost cause. :tsk:

I don't recall him being a bad tackler, BUT he's way to stiff in the hips so no matter what kind of coverage you all run you better hope that the four can continue but pressure on the quarterback otherwise......

Traveler
10-19-2009, 08:36 AM
Word was when Paymah was drafted that the scouts liked his measurables, but he might not have the football smarts or instincts to become more than a servicable backup at best.

That seems to a have been the correct scouting report on Paymah. He'll occasionally make a play, but he shouldn't be counted on as a starter.

TXBRONC
10-19-2009, 09:34 AM
Paymah was drafted by the Broncos and Shanahan. Unfortunately, it is relevant.

He didn't ask who drafted Paymah so no it's not relevant.

weazel
10-19-2009, 11:19 AM
Paymah is freaking awesome!! but you guys can keep him...

LOL

Foochacho
10-19-2009, 12:41 PM
He had a few good moments. I think I remember him being good on special teams. Definitely not a starter though.

Buff
10-19-2009, 12:47 PM
He's fast and has size, but other than that he was completely worthless...

Don't feel too bad though, Dominique Foxworth, who we drafted the same year as Paymah, wasn't any better and the Ravens gave him like $16 million guaranteed this off season. So it could be worse.

Dortoh
10-19-2009, 12:51 PM
for a while, i really thought that paymah was going to develop into a good corner for us...

It happens to us all. I was a huge fan of Lenny Walls the tallest CB in the world :laugh:

weazel
10-19-2009, 01:09 PM
It happens to us all. I was a huge fan of Lenny Walls the tallest CB in the world :laugh:

currently playing for the Winnipeg Blue Bombers of the CFL...

KCL
10-19-2009, 01:11 PM
currently playing for the Winnipeg Blue Bombers of the CFL...

He also played for the Chiefs...although that isn't saying much!

broncofaninfla
10-19-2009, 01:17 PM
I'll start off by saying I'm a die-hard Vikings fan. What brings me to your forums today is a certain CB we have on our roster, that was a former Bronco. His name is Karl Paymah. He is probably the worst thing I've ever seen in pass coverage. My question to all of you is, was he as bad as I make it seem, when he was a Bronco? Because in all honesty, this guy really sucks. He can't tackle for shit, he can't play man coverage, and he can't play zone coverage. He was forced into action today because our usual starter (Antoine Winfield) went out early with an injury but after today I pray to God he never takes the field for another defensive series with the Vikings. He was thrown at all day, and he made 1 play the entire game, which he started 97% of the defensive snaps.

Please tell me there is some hope for this lost cause. :tsk:

You can pretty much figure any player that was cut from our defense on last years team doesn't even belong in the NFL.....they were that bad.

Cugel
10-20-2009, 05:40 PM
:lol: No it isn't and I want Jared Allen back...:tsk:

Is it just me or is Jared Allen having an even better season than before? He's just a terror out there on the field. He destroyed the Green Bay OL on Monday night and forced a bunch of sacks and a safety, then went out and dominated again this Sunday against the Ravens. He now has 8 sacks and 3 forced fumbles.

Good thing for the Chiefs that Carl Peterson is no longer their GM! :beer:

Northman
10-20-2009, 05:43 PM
IWhat brings me to your forums today is a certain CB we have on our roster, that was a former Bronco. His name is Karl Paymah. He is probably the worst thing I've ever seen in pass coverage.

Yes, he is bad. I watched the Ravens/Vikings game and when i saw him covering one of the wideouts on a TD i started laughing immediately. He has a cult following for some reason in Bronco Nation but he is bad as advertised. Im starting to notice that with Foxworth who i had some loyalty too but its becoming abundantly clear Foxy is garbage. Paymah is close behind. I feel your pain.

Northman
10-20-2009, 05:45 PM
I wonder why....never even heard the name Frank Walker before. :laugh: If Foxy is their best CB, they have issues.

Well babydoll, i can tell you this. When i hear Raven fans defending walker for being at least physical and prefer him to Foxy that ought to tell you something. :lol:

Italianmobstr7
10-20-2009, 05:52 PM
Foxworth really isn't bad. Paymah is pretty much trash. Decent special teamer I guess, but probably a DIME CB at best.

LRtagger
10-20-2009, 07:13 PM
wait until the team you're playing gets into the redzone and they score every time on first down by just throwing a fade to whoever Paymah is covering. He has the worst ball skills ever. The guy wasn't a TERRIBLE nickle corner, but if you have him in for your base D you are screwed.

CrazyHorse
10-20-2009, 08:52 PM
Jared Allen is a freakin beast! He's fun to watch.

He's no Elvis Dumervil.

MadMax
10-22-2009, 12:52 PM
Don't know if OP is still following this but I couldn't help engaging in a little schadenfreude, get ready for a whole lot more Paymah! :shocked: :shocked:


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/10/22/winfield-apparently-wont-go/
When the Minnesota Vikings line up against the pass-happy Steelers (that should work really well once the weather turns in Pittsburgh), the Vikings most likely won't have cornerback Antoine Winfield.

The Pro Bowler is in a walking boot due to a sprained foot, and the Minneapolis Star Tribune suggests that he's an "extreme long shot" for Sunday's game.

Also, linebacker Ben Leber defended cornerback Karl Paymah, who was torched repeatedly after replacing Winfield during Sunday's wide-left win over the Ravens.

"It was a tough position to put any corner in last week," Leber said. "Backups get marginal reps during the week and to ask these guys to come in and play at a high level is a tough thing to do. No doubt they have to do it. This is our first real test with [Winfield] not being in the lineup so it still remains to be seen."

Paymah, nickel back Benny Sapp, and rookie Asher Allen are the candidates to replace Winfield at left cornerback. It's believed that starter Cedric Griffin will remain on the right side.

Buff
10-22-2009, 01:08 PM
I don't know why I happened to remember this guy's comments, but when Paymah first signed with the Vikings and I read the story on ProFootballTalk, I remember reading this guy's response and thinking, "That is a spot-on analysis."

Here is his scouting report on Paymah:


Paymah has 3 INTs in 4 years in the league. He was given every opportunity to beat out Dre Bly (the slowest corner in the league last year) and he couldn’t do it. He was then passed on the depth chart by a rookie free agent, Josh Bell as well as 4th round draft choice, Jack Williams who is generously listed at 5’8” 160. He will be in the Vikings Press Guide under the heading “looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane.” His only value is as an outside gunner on special teams. That’s it. He’s not a nickel CB, and he’s not a dime CB. He’s the eighth guy you bring in with the prevent at the end of the half or end of the game prior to the 50+ yard desperation throw, where you have 8 DBs and 3 D-lineman on the field. While he has very good size and speed for a corner, he’s a liability in man to man coverage. Twice the Broncos tried to convert him to safety and he just floundered. Just ask yourself, If this guy has four years in league and he still hasn’t figured it out enough to be any more than the 4th or 5th CB on the Denver Broncos defense, just how much help is he going to be.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/03/14/vikes-will-pay-paymahs-rent/#comments