'08 Broncos 53-man Roster

[MHCBill]

Starters in Bold - Look, there's no way to fix every hole in one year. We need another strong draft, stay healthy, better coaching, better play-calling, better schemes, etc.

Personnel is the first issue of the offseason. Resign your own players, evaluate free agents. Sign free agents. Draft. Sign udrafted free agents.

Next is coaching and schemes. I for one would like to see some changes both offensively and defensively. I thought it was telling during the broadcast X-mas eve when the announcers stated that during their meeting with Shanahan he stated that all he wants for X-mas is the Patriots and Cowboys offensive lines. That right there makes me believe priority #1 this offseason, Oline. I think it's easier to fix an Oline in free agency than with draft picks. Maybe not easier, but much much faster. We've done it before with the Oline adding many good veterans over the years, and it is the one area of a football team that you usually don't miss with when signing free agents. Hence, see below for my two additions to the Oline.

We need to get better defensively. In my opinion, primarily the trenches. Just like the Oline, however here is an area where teams tend to get burned over paying for under productive players. I think we'll need to target a DT to draft that can come in and produce during the second half of the '08 season, but unfortunately I just don't think with as many holes as we have that we can rebuild the whole Dline. Moss and Doom are not everydown lineman. Maybe Moss will be down the road, but he certainly won't be in 2008. We need to add an every-down DE and let Crowder start as the other DE. He has the best size and strength of our current crop and we need to see how well he can develop as a first and second down DE. Let Doom and Moss do what they do best and rush the QB on passing downs and situations.

Finally, the coaching-schems-playcalling need to get better. We need some new, fresh ideas throwing the ball. Better utilization of our personnel. Emphasize our strenghts and hide our weaknesses. Blitz on D!!! I'm all for rushing only four lineman, but if it ain't working do something different. Blitz. Change. Make adjustments on defense. I'm so sick and tired of watching the defense get handled and nothing changes. I want an aggressive defensive coordinator. Someone that relies on pressuring the QB. Stop the run and pressure the QB. Sounds easy, but not always is. I don't care what the talent level is, but if you have to bring 7 or 8 defenders five or six times a game then freakin' do it!!! Start dictating on defense! The only way to truly stop the run is with a big, strong, aggressive Dline. We don't have it. We're undersized and I dont' think we can totally fix that in one offseason.

So, here's my wish list for the '08 Broncos roster...

QB (2)
Jay Cutler
Patrick Ramsey

RB (6)
Andre Hall
Selvin Young
HB (Draft/Sign Rookie FA)
Cecil Sapp
Paul Smith
FB (Draft/Sign Rookie FA)

WR (5)
Brandon Marshall
Bryant Johnson (UFA - Use Walker's money)
Brandon Stokely
Glen Martinez
WR (Draft/Sign Rookie FA)

TE (4)
Daniel Graham
Tony Scheffler
Nate Jackson
Mike Leach

OT (4)
Max Starks (UFA - use Hamilton/Nalen's money)
Matt Lepsis
Ryan Harris
Eric Pears

OG (3)
Alan Faneca (UFA - one of two offseason splurges)
Montrae Holland
Chris Kuper

C (2)
Tom Nalen/Ben Hamilton (one of two won't be back)
Chris Myers

DE (5)
Jason Taylor (trade w/Miami - '08 #4 pick & '09 #3 pick)
Tim Crowder
Elvis Dumervil
Jarvis Moss
John Engleberger

DT (5)
Marcus Thomas
Frank Okam/Red Bryant ('08 #2 draft pick)
Alvin Mckinley
Kenny Peterson
Steven Harris

MLB (2)
Johnathan Goff ('08 #4 draft pick)
Nate Webster

WLB (2)
DJ Willams
Jamie Winborn

SLB (2)
Karlos Dansby (one of two offseason splurges)
Jordan Beck

CB (5)
Champ Bailey
Dre Bly
Karl Paymah
Rodney Rogers (switch to corner)
CB (Draft/Sign Rookie FA)

FS (2)
Kenny Phillips ('08 #1 draft pick)
FS (sign back-up veteran)

SS (2)
Hamza Abdullah
Steve Cargile

K (1)
Jason Elam

P (1)
Paul Ernster (maybe go in a different direction)



We will have the money to be able to do this.

Unfortunately or fortunately depending on how you look at it the following list of players will not be Broncos next year:

Lynch, Rod, Gold, Hamilton/Nalen, Javon, Henry, Ekuban, Ferguson, etc.

Time to make some changes, unfortunately I don't think one year is enough for how bad this team looks right now. Another good draft, some smart free agent signings and trades and maybe 2009 will be our year.

Patience.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Trading for Jason Taylor? No.

Signing Max Starks who isn't even starting in Pittsburgh anymore? No.

Giving out 50 million dollars to the over the hill veteran whose play has trailed off in the past two years in Alan Faneca? No.

Getting rid of Walker for Bryant Johnson? Are you kidding me? No.

If we got rid of all the big players you say we're going to, that'd throw enormous cap hits onto our money available in the off-season. There would be no possible way to afford guys like Dansby and Faneca, along with a top draft choice if we cut the people you suggested. We'd have to eat their paychecks, and it's probably not going to happen.

This just isn't plausible.

Nice effort though.

[MHCBill]

Thanks for your opinion.

What would you do?

By the way, why are so many people that in love with Javon Walker? He had a nice season last year (not pro bowl caliber) and two nice games this year.

He's hurt, expensive, and we have a new #1 in town.

Faneca's play is down, but he just made another pro-bowl? Up until Parker got hurt he was part of an oline that had the leading rusher in the NFL.

What cap hits? Lynch, Rod, and Hamilton/Nalen will retire. Walker and Henry are due large bonuses. Feguson and Ekuban are free agents.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

What would you do?

I won't be making any projections until I break down the roster and come up with my own formula to what needs need to be addressed on the team and what likely avenues we'll take to address them. Until the final draft order is set for the Broncos, etc. - I will not be making any projections. As far as roster projections go, I almost never do that.


By the way, why are so many people that in love with Javon Walker? He had a nice season last year (not pro bowl caliber) and two nice games this year.

Because he's due a bunch of bonuses that would slam against the cap if we got rid of him. The least the Broncos can do is give him another year and let him try and play to prove his worth that getting rid of a receiver - who when healthy can produce.


Faneca's play is down, but he just made another pro-bowl? Up until Parker got hurt he was part of an oline that had the leading rusher in the NFL.

It is down, any Steelers fan will tell you that. He's refusing very friendly contract offers from Pittsburgh and wants more money. He is getting to the Pro-Bowl on name basis, like a lot of other players are. Our interior line isn't our weakness either, it'd be our tackle spots. Why shell out 40-50 million for a guard who has one or two years in him at best - when you have Myers and Kuper who can both play guard, and Holland as a quality depth player?

Not to mention, you talk about scheme fits but feel that Starks would do well here? How? Sign a guy to be a starter, who lost his starting job in Pittsburgh? I don't know how that solves a thing.


What cap hits? Lynch, Rod, and Hamilton/Nalen will retire. Walker and Henry are due large bonuses. Feguson and Ekuban are free agents.

Getting rid of players like Walker, Henry, Gold, etc. by cutting them if they don't retire is going to hurt the team. It's going to cost some serious cash.

Also, who knows who will retire and who won't. It's assumed. Right now it's projected that the Broncos have around 15-19 million dollars in cap room. If they did cut lose Walker, Henry, Gold, etc. - without knowing their exact bonus amounts, it'd cut at least more than half of that away. With that said, there is no way that we could afford two large free agent contracts.

Dansby and Faneca would cost more than Graham and Henry did last year. Unless some serious restructuring goes on (outright cuts would hurt the cap, not help) and all those retirements go through, we would not have that chance. Also factor in the costs of a top ten draft choice, where Phillips is a safety and the premium tag on them is not a lot - it's also something to consider.

As far as projecting other players to add to this defense or this offense, I will reserve judgment until we find out what coaches will be here this next season and which won't. I think we'll get a better idea over the next month or so in what direction this team will head, probably not until February will we have a great idea. I was really hoping to go to Mobile this year for the Senior Bowl, but that isn't going to happen. Nonetheless, it'll be nice to hear what type of players the Broncos are looking at extensively.

I know that Offensive Tackle is already one of them.

I'll be working hard over the next month or so to get my projections going; I'm not a big free agent guesser, because that's not really a mystery. This team could use a quality free agent or two, but they have a lot of things to worry about with their players now before they can even think of going out and getting some big named fixes for the offense and defense.

The good thing is, we have a lot of players under contract. We can get the cap room, it's just a matter of who will give it to us, and how.

[MHCBill]

Good stuff.

Thanks for you insight.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Cut or trade away:
Travis Henry
Javon Walker
Ian Gold

Retire:
John Lynch
Matt Lepsis
Tom Nalen

Draft: (trade up if you have to) Glenn Dorsey or Chris Long!

Get a full back who can block and move the pile!


Free Agents or Trades: (only 2 or 3 max! Better to build team through draft)
Lance Briggs or Terrell Suggs
Bryant Johnson, Benard Berrian, Drew Carter, or Michael Clayton
Jonathon Vilma

[MileHighWrath]

I would LOVE to draft Chris Long.

I'm not so sure I share the idea of getting rid of Walker, the pack did that and, as a result, we got a new #1 last year. When healthy he's a special player and I doubt we can get much for him this off season anyway. I see him on the roster come training camp.

I would like to see some experience on the D-line for the young guys but have to be very careful not to bring in someone that's going to demand a huge paycheck, experience doesn't have to be expensive.

[omac]

Hey MHCBill, nice post, man. I don't agree with all of it, but it's got lots of nice ideas. :salute:

On receiver, I'd rather take my chances seeing if Javon is healthy than picking up Bryant Johnson. There's no way he's better than a healthy Javon, Marshall, or even Stokley. I wouldn't mind using a very late pick or maybe a ufa pickup to take some great kick return specialist from an unknown college.

I'm not too confident about the offensive guard and tackle for the Steelers. They haven't protected Roethlisburger very well this season, and for most of the season, they haven't had a lot of rushing TDs. Then again, on the protection, maybe Roethlisburger just holds the ball too darn long.

I'd rather spend for a quality DT like Haynesworth or someone mentioned Corey Williams from GB, than try to acquire another DE, even if he is the great Jason Taylor. We really have to be at least decent against the run, without needing 8 in the box. http://www.footballsfuture.com/2008/nfl/freeagentsDL.html

Based on Scott Wright's top 32 seniors, http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sub/rankings.html, there are 2 DTs and 1 LT in the top 10, so we have pretty good chances of getting a top tier offensive or defensive lineman. From 11 to 32, there are 2 DTs and 5 OTs, so we can even trade down to get them. That's not including juniors, so if we really wanted to, we could pick up a good tackle in the 1st round.

I'd keep DJ in the middle unless there's a much better proven option. DJ's been doing fine, and all signs point to him getting even better.

(added) We need a better punter than Ernster. I hope they do a lot of research in the college ranks for a kid who they can get cheap, who can really hammer it far and high.

[UnderArmour]

Cut or trade away:
Travis Henry
Javon Walker
Ian Gold

Retire:
John Lynch
Matt Lepsis
Tom Nalen

Draft: (trade up if you have to) Glenn Dorsey or Chris Long!

Get a full back who can block and move the pile!


Free Agents or Trades: (only 2 or 3 max! Better to build team through draft)
Lance Briggs or Terrell Suggs
Bryant Johnson, Benard Berrian, Drew Carter, or Michael Clayton
Jonathon Vilma

Keep dreaming.. Bernard Berrian, Bryant Johnson, Drew Carter, and Michael Clayton are all nothing special. Javon is easily better than all of them. Vilma/Briggs/Suggs probably won't happen. Too expensive and we're a pretty shitty team for any Free Agent to want to come to. Of the above, Gold is the only one I see with a realistic chance of being cut. As far as retirements go, nothing is certain.

[NameUsedBefore]

I doubt Andre Hall will be on the team next year, much less be a starter.


Anyway, it's wayyyy too early to even suggest a list like this.

[omac]

I doubt Andre Hall will be on the team next year, much less be a starter.


Anyway, it's wayyyy too early to even suggest a list like this.

I think either Selvin Young or Andre Hall will be trade bait. They've both had some great performances before their injuries. There will be teams willing to take a shot at them. Just look at Chicago; their premiere back, Benson, was primarily a disappointment; their Adrian Peterson outplayed him, but he's hardly a first choice for starter. Young or Hall could definitely crack their starting lineup.

[MHCBill]

Again, I still don't get why so many people insist that we keep Javon Walker.

He has a degenerative knee!!!

As a wide receiver in the NFL having healthy knees is important.

He is due a ton of cash next year in form of a roster bonus. Would we take a hit if we let him go? Yes, but less of a hit than him staying on the roster and playing in only five games.

I guess that is the question. Will Javon Walker have the production for the amount we are paying him? I think No. Others do.

Look, it was a good deal a couple years ago. He worked out well last year and was off to a great start this year, but then he got reinjured. Things have changed.

The notion of Marshall, Walker, and Stokely is awesome if they're all healthy, but at this point the only one that has proven himself healthy for an entire season in Brandon. I don't want to take the risk of both Walker and Stokely.

I'm not suggesting that Stokely is equal to Walker in talent, but I can't see us going into next year with two of our top three receivers as question marks for the entire year.

Thanks Javon, but it's time to let him go. Take our cap hit, and move on with Bryant Johnson who has been healthy and would be an ideal #2 receiver. He can block and go across the middle. He doesn't need to be the featured guy... look where he's coming from. He'll be a team player and a great mentor to Marshall, our true #1 receiver.

Please, let's let Javon go and move on.

[MHCBill]

Hey MHCBill, nice post, man. I don't agree with all of it, but it's got lots of nice ideas. :salute:

On receiver, I'd rather take my chances seeing if Javon is healthy than picking up Bryant Johnson. There's no way he's better than a healthy Javon, Marshall, or even Stokley. I wouldn't mind using a very late pick or maybe a ufa pickup to take some great kick return specialist from an unknown college.

I'm not too confident about the offensive guard and tackle for the Steelers. They haven't protected Roethlisburger very well this season, and for most of the season, they haven't had a lot of rushing TDs. Then again, on the protection, maybe Roethlisburger just holds the ball too darn long.

I'd rather spend for a quality DT like Haynesworth or someone mentioned Corey Williams from GB, than try to acquire another DE, even if he is the great Jason Taylor. We really have to be at least decent against the run, without needing 8 in the box. http://www.footballsfuture.com/2008/nfl/freeagentsDL.html

Based on Scott Wright's top 32 seniors, http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sub/rankings.html, there are 2 DTs and 1 LT in the top 10, so we have pretty good chances of getting a top tier offensive or defensive lineman. From 11 to 32, there are 2 DTs and 5 OTs, so we can even trade down to get them. That's not including juniors, so if we really wanted to, we could pick up a good tackle in the 1st round.

I'd keep DJ in the middle unless there's a much better proven option. DJ's been doing fine, and all signs point to him getting even better.

(added) We need a better punter than Ernster. I hope they do a lot of research in the college ranks for a kid who they can get cheap, who can really hammer it far and high.I'm sorry, but the Titans are not letting big Albert go anywhere.

Almost all of us agree that we need to get better in the trenches on both sides of the ball.

If I'm going to spend big free agency dollars on the lines I prefer to go Oline. Less risk than Dline. Too many times teams get burned on a Dlineman that was looking for a huge payday and then turns to crap.

When was the last time that happened with a big free agent Olineman?

Rebuild Oline through free agency and Dline through the draft.

[MHCBill]

I don't want Bryant Johnson period. He's just not that good.
What's wrong with him?

[omac]

Again, I still don't get why so many people insist that we keep Javon Walker.

He has a degenerative knee!!!

As a wide receiver in the NFL having healthy knees is important.

He is due a ton of cash next year in form of a roster bonus. Would we take a hit if we let him go? Yes, but less of a hit than him staying on the roster and playing in only five games.

I guess that is the question. Will Javon Walker have the production for the amount we are paying him? I think No. Others do.

Look, it was a good deal a couple years ago. He worked out well last year and was off to a great start this year, but then he got reinjured. Things have changed.

The notion of Marshall, Walker, and Stokely is awesome if they're all healthy, but at this point the only one that has proven himself healthy for an entire season in Brandon. I don't want to take the risk of both Walker and Stokely.

I'm not suggesting that Stokely is equal to Walker in talent, but I can't see us going into next year with two of our top three receivers as question marks for the entire year.

Thanks Javon, but it's time to let him go. Take our cap hit, and move on with Bryant Johnson who has been healthy and would be an ideal #2 receiver. He can block and go across the middle. He doesn't need to be the featured guy... look where he's coming from. He'll be a team player and a great mentor to Marshall, our true #1 receiver.

Please, let's let Javon go and move on.

I'm just not impressed with Bryant Johnson, Berrian, Clayton, or Carter. I pitty Chicago fans who have to continue watching their receivers drop the ball when it's thrown right at them. Johnson doesn't make enough plays. Carter isn't doint much in Carolina, even before Delhomme got injured. He's had one 132 yard game, and 3 40+ yard games; he's had 2 TDs all season; nothing really special.

If they decide to cut or trade Javon, then fine, but let's not waste money on ordinary players. I'd rather risk a late draft pick with potential.

[omac]

I'm sorry, but the Titans are not letting big Albert go anywhere.

Almost all of us agree that we need to get better in the trenches on both sides of the ball.

If I'm going to spend big free agency dollars on the lines I prefer to go Oline. Less risk than Dline. Too many times teams get burned on a Dlineman that was looking for a huge payday and then turns to crap.

When was the last time that happened with a big free agent Olineman?

Rebuild Oline through free agency and Dline through the draft.

I was thinking the opposite; DT is a bigger possition of need, so I'd rather get a proven quantity there if at all possible, but draft if not. The rookie Oliners from Cleveland and Arizona seem to be doing just fine, as is the one from Indy, so that makes me think that the offensive tackle possition may be a "more ready" NFL quantity from college, than a DT from college.

Every which way, I'd rather get proven veterans with lots of years left in the tank for both sides of the line, but will settle for those from the drafts if no quality ones are available.

[Ricky]

This team needs to address both lines. Free agency, draft, whatever, they both need fixed.

[UnderArmour]

What's wrong with him?

I deleted it because I wanted to do a bit more research, so I did. He reminds me a lot of Nate Burleson. I just don't think he's much of an upgrade over even Stokely.

[MHCBill]

I'd rather risk a late draft pick with potential.
Like Darius Watts potential...

Like Dominik Hixon potential...

Like Chris Cole potential...

Like Triandos Luke potential...

Like Wesley Duke potential...

Like Chris Cole potential...

Like Brian Clark potential...

Like David Kircus potential...

No thanks, I'll take Bryant Johnson with his veteran experience as my #2 receiver. He stays healthy and blocks like a mother!!!

[MHCBill]

This team needs to address both lines. Free agency, draft, whatever, they both need fixed.AGREED!!!!!!

[MHCBill]

I was thinking the opposite; DT is a bigger possition of need, so I'd rather get a proven quantity there if at all possible, but draft if not. The rookie Oliners from Cleveland and Arizona seem to be doing just fine, as is the one from Indy, so that makes me think that the offensive tackle possition may be a "more ready" NFL quantity from college, than a DT from college.

Every which way, I'd rather get proven veterans with lots of years left in the tank for both sides of the line, but will settle for those from the drafts if no quality ones are available.
I agree somewhat, but typically to get a rookie starter offensive lineman you usually need to pick them in the top 10 of the draft. Maybe we could do that this year, but again I would rather take less risk on the free agent market and go after offensive line there instead of defensive line.

Look, no matter what we will not be able to fix both lines in one off-season.

Pick your poision.

[omac]

Like Darius Watts potential...

Like Dominik Hixon potential...

Like Chris Cole potential...

Like Triandos Luke potential...

Like Wesley Duke potential...

Like Chris Cole potential...

Like Brian Clark potential...

Like David Kircus potential...

No thanks, I'll take Bryant Johnson with his veteran experience as my #2 receiver. He stays healthy and blocks like a mother!!!

Brandon Marshall was taken in the 4th round (not very late, I know, but still much later than a guy like Ted Ginn or Dwayne Bowe). Rod Smith was undrafted.

Bryant Johnson is just plain ordinary; he doesn't make enough big plays when he's given the opportunity. Compare him to Stokley, and he looks real bad; Stokley makes a lot of big plays.

But like I said, use a late pick, or even try through ufa, but don't spend free agent money on an ordinary player.

[BOSSHOGG30]

I think you guys are over looking some important facts in some of the wide recievers listed.

Bryant Johnson, Drew Carter and Michael Clayton may not be the best catching wide outs or even well known guys on the field, but Denver already has their #1 guy. If you can't see what Brandon Marshall is becoming then something is wrong. Denver needs a #2 guy that won't cost a lot and you also have to remember that Denver likes to run the football. When looking at potential canidates to replace an injury prone Walker, you want to consider these factors. Michael Clayton is one of the best blocking wide outs in the entire NFL. Johnson is really good in that area too. Neither guy has blazing speed, but they have good hands and excellent options for our run attack. Drew Carter is a blazer and a sleeper. You don't hear much about him because of Steve Smith. Same can be said with Johnson and Clayton because they have teams that feature, Boldin, Fitzgerald, and Galloway. It's hard to be popular when you are the #2 or #3 guy. Don't over look these guys just because they aren't super stars, yet.

[omac]

I think you guys are over looking some important facts in some of the wide recievers listed.

Bryant Johnson, Drew Carter and Michael Clayton may not be the best catching wide outs or even well known guys on the field, but Denver already has their #1 guy. If you can't see what Brandon Marshall is becoming then something is wrong. Denver needs a #2 guy that won't cost a lot and you also have to remember that Denver likes to run the football. When looking at potential canidates to replace an injury prone Walker, you want to consider these factors. Michael Clayton is one of the best blocking wide outs in the entire NFL. Johnson is really good in that area too. Neither guy has blazing speed, but they have good hands and excellent options for our run attack. Drew Carter is a blazer and a sleeper. You don't hear much about him because of Steve Smith. Same can be said with Johnson and Clayton because they have teams that feature, Boldin, Fitzgerald, and Galloway. It's hard to be popular when you are the #2 or #3 guy. Don't over look these guys just because they aren't super stars, yet.

Those are good points, specially about the blocking, but with the quality of Denver's receiving corps now, I wouldn't rate any of those receivers higher than a 3 on the depth chart, 4 if Javon plays. Blocking is good, but receivers need to be relied on to catch the ball and make plays, and that bunch has just been pretty inconsistent. Stokley has proven himself much better than any of them. So if they're asking #4 or #3 type money, then okay, but if they're asking for #2 type money, I'd say better that we pass on them. I really wouldn't trust Bryant Johnson or Berrian in a #2 slot with the Broncos.

[Stargazer]

If Walker is cut, I would definately like to see Denver bring Bryant Johnson in.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Those are good points, specially about the blocking, but with the quality of Denver's receiving corps now, I wouldn't rate any of those receivers higher than a 3 on the depth chart, 4 if Javon plays. Blocking is good, but receivers need to be relied on to catch the ball and make plays, and that bunch has just been pretty inconsistent. Stokley has proven himself much better than any of them. So if they're asking #4 or #3 type money, then okay, but if they're asking for #2 type money, I'd say better that we pass on them. I really wouldn't trust Bryant Johnson or Berrian in a #2 slot with the Broncos.

Bryant Johnson #3 reciever in Arizona
44 catches 518 yards, and 2 touchdowns
Not bad for a #3 guy.

Benard Berrian (with bad QB's)
67 catches 920 yards, and 4 touchdowns
You wouldn't trust this guy as a #2 guy in Denver?

Drew Carter #3 guy in Carolina (with bad QB's)
36 catches 458 yards, and 4 touchdowns

[BroncoWave]

NO NO NO to Taylor! Getting him would make absolutely no sense. We are fine at defensive end. We need to be filling holes. What sense would it make to pour a bunch of cash into a position we are already fine at. Ekuban, Moss, Dumervil, Crowder, and Engleberger will be more than sufficient. We need DTs, not DEs.

[topscribe]

Like Darius Watts potential...

Like Dominik Hixon potential...

Like Chris Cole potential...

Like Triandos Luke potential...

Like Wesley Duke potential...

Like Chris Cole potential...

Like Brian Clark potential...

Like David Kircus potential...

No thanks, I'll take Bryant Johnson with his veteran experience as my #2 receiver. He stays healthy and blocks like a mother!!!

What? What's this deal with #2 receiver? Marshall or Walker will be #2
because Marshall or Walker will be #1 . . . possibly more like 1a and 1b. You
have heard of Brandon Stokley, haven't you? And then Glenn Marinez has
shown the capabilty of being a good depth receiver.

WR is the LAST area of concern on the team. DT and LB are the concerns
now. I don't care if the Broncos get 150 yards rushing and Cutler gets 300
yards passing and 3 TDs every game if the Broncos are going to give up the
same.

It will be 6-10 again next year unless the Broncos get defensive help. :coffee:

-----

[TheSportsGuru]

Keep dreaming.. Bernard Berrian, Bryant Johnson, Drew Carter, and Michael Clayton are all nothing special. Javon is easily better than all of them. Vilma/Briggs/Suggs probably won't happen. Too expensive and we're a pretty shitty team for any Free Agent to want to come to. Of the above, Gold is the only one I see with a realistic chance of being cut. As far as retirements go, nothing is certain.

Walker is better when he is actually on the field. That is nothing close to a sure thing right now....

[BOSSHOGG30]

You guys don't understand the severity of Javon Walker's knee injury do you...

Cswil... please report to this thread and explain to everyone just how sever this injury is and could be...

[CoachChaz]

This is contingent on the possible release/trade of Walker.
________
Alzheimer's disease advice (http://www.health-forums.org/alzheimer-s-disease/)

[topscribe]

You guys don't understand the severity of Javon Walker's knee injury do you...

Cswil... please report to this thread and explain to everyone just how sever this injury is and could be...

Doesn't make any difference. The Broncos were explosive without Walker, too.

However, they could not stop the run with or without him. :noidea:

-----

[Requiem / The Dagda]

The Broncos need more receiving targets, they have three quality receivers when healthy, but lack other options - and long-term longevity, unless Walker is that guy. It wouldn't hurt in the least to get a receiver in round four or so that can return kicks as well and be a sub-package guy on offense. Injuries are a part of the game. There's a reason why people are skeptical about the future of some of the players above.

Who thought Green Bay would take another receiver when they had Jennings and Driver last year? Now they have three good receivers, with a bunch of other solid options. Teams build up on offense and allow their quarterbacks to do good things. Look at Indianapolis, Green Bay, New England, Cincinnati's, etc. all as examples. It doesn't have to be a first day need, and it probably won't be - but if there is value there, the team will look for it.

There is nothing wrong with Denver going for a Darius Reynaud in round four or five to help this team. It's that sort of optimism that lead teams to overlook needs, and it certainly was overlooking what we had this year due to the injuries. Thankfully, Marshall stepped up, but the fans and posters on this board have earned the right to question everyone outside him, and for good reason.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Another thing to add on the Javon Walker talk... If he was in Denver's plans, wouldn't he be going to off season work outs with Scheffler, Cutler, and Marshall? Only makes sense to me. Doesn't look to good for Walker in Denver anymore. The knee and doesn't seem to be Cutler's boy anymore.

[sanluis]

Denver needs a healthy O-line and a D-line. It doesn't matter how good your corners are if your front can't stop the run or put any pressure on the QB.I told you this long ago. If you can't control the line of scrimmage you lose!

[Tned]

Next is coaching and schemes. I for one would like to see some changes both offensively and defensively. I thought it was telling during the broadcast X-mas eve when the announcers stated that during their meeting with Shanahan he stated that all he wants for X-mas is the Patriots and Cowboys offensive lines. That right there makes me believe priority #1 this offseason, Oline. I think it's easier to fix an Oline in free agency than with draft picks. Maybe not easier, but much much faster. We've done it before with the Oline adding many good veterans over the years, and it is the one area of a football team that you usually don't miss with when signing free agents. Hence, see below for my two additions to the Oline.


I hadn't had a chance to check this out until now, so I am going to chime in on one thing and then read the rest of the thread.

When it comes to coaching and specifically, offensive coaching, here are some thoughts. Our team is half pregnant. This is something we know isn't possible, but if it was, it wouldn't be a good thing. What I mean is that we are stuck in the middle, in an offensive purgatory.

Shanahan brought heimerdinger on last year, supposedly to bring a new dimension to the offense. As a result, the team reduced the amount of bootlegs that they ran, tried to go to more spread formations, shotgun formations, etc. Both before and after Cutler took over.

This year, we started the year with a non-Shanahan (or maybe it was non-Kubiak) offense. The team didn't focus on misdirection, whether it be with cutback or bootlegs, but instead called more traditional play action, when play action was used, and lots of straight drop back passing.

The reason this is offensive purgatory, is that the Broncos still have an offensive line that is capable of the zone blocking WITH misdirection play calling. Shanahan was known for running a relatively small number of plays from a great number of different looks/formations, but the key to them were misdirection. Get the defense flowing and over pursuing and then create the big run or pass on the back side with a cutback or play-action bootleg/rollout to the backside of the play.

This is key, because the small offensive linemen could zone block effectively with coordination, speed and leverage to move/slide the defenders out of the way, rather than truly over power them. This combined with a playside, playside, backside type rhythim to the play calling would keep the defense guessing and often over-pursuing or being required to commit defenders to cover the backside for cutbacks or bootlegs, thus opening up the defense for big plays.

The problem is that while Shanahan hasn't changed the makeup of the offensive line, he (or his coaches) changed the play calling, and went to more of a 'traditional' drop back passing game.

If you look back to when the offense started to rack up some points at mid-season, it coincided with putting more bootlegs and misdirection back into the play calling. However, we were doing it behind an even more makeshift line, with Nalen and hamilton out and people being moved around to cover them.

So, Shanny's comment about the Pats and Cowboys lines are telling, not just because they are good lines, but because they would fit the current trend in his play calling. He needs to get this team pregnant or decided it's not, but not be in that middle ground. Not call plays like he has the Pat's offensive line, but still have the smallest one in the league.

He has to get bigger on the line, and guys capable of straight drop back pass blocking, or he needs to go back to a 'misdirection' style offense where they don't run exotic plays, but what they run they run well and 'cover' by running them out of new formations each week, and focus on the rhythm of a small number of plays creating misdirection and then big plays as a result of defensive over pursuing.

[underrated29]

i didnt read all the posts, but where did anyone say his knee is DEGENERATIVE?

i have heard all the td, courtney brown comparisons, that doesnt mean he or his knee is the same. I want proof that it is getting worse and will continue to get worse and not get better. Because right now i just dont believe it.

Walker is a number 1 wr. Imo is better then brandon. Dont get carried away here let me explain.
Both can block, edge to brandon.
Both got good hands toss up here imo.
Both can run across the middle and take hits edge to brandon for toughness. Both can run the deep go edge to javon for better speed and break off of db. Both can run with the ball edge brandon.
Both run good routes edge javon.
One can cause trouble one can get in trouble.

so they are pretty even, however walker has been around longer and is barely just barely a smarter player. So edge to him.

If you had randy moss on your team and he got hurt, then had a 88 catch 1100+yard 7-10 td season. Then got hurt again would you just cut him. NO. because then man is good. But because he hasnt been in the light the whole time everyone gets down on him.

He will be here next year and he is way to good to let go. I still agree that we need another wr though.

[omac]

Bryant Johnson #3 reciever in Arizona
44 catches 518 yards, and 2 touchdowns
Not bad for a #3 guy.

Benard Berrian (with bad QB's)
67 catches 920 yards, and 4 touchdowns
You wouldn't trust this guy as a #2 guy in Denver?

Drew Carter #3 guy in Carolina (with bad QB's)
36 catches 458 yards, and 4 touchdowns

Johnsons' played #2 for quite a few games this season, with injuries to Fitzgerald and Boldin. A few of those times, he's been outshined by their #4. And when you watch him play, he just doesn't make enough plays. Same goes for Berrian; for a #2, he's just so unreliable, even when the ball's thrown right at him. Carter usually gets 10 to 30 yards a game; he's had 3 games where he went over 40, one game where he went 132 yards. For the most part, he's definitely ordinary, and at best #3 material, which is why he is a #3 in their depth chart. No way would I want him as a #2.

Like I've said, pay those guys #4 or #3 money and that's okay, but paying them #2 money despite them being very inconsistent is a waste. No way should any of them crack the #2 spot here. Most of those guys couldn't even crack the #2 spot on their team, so why would we want any of them to be a #2 here?

For #2 money, I'd rather get a good #2 receiver. A good #2 is one who could fight for the #1 spot, like Marshall was coming into this season; like TJ Houshmanzadah. A good #3 is one who could fight for the #2 spot. A bad #2 is a #3 who couldn't win the #2 spot, which most of those guys are.

[omac]

The Broncos need more receiving targets, they have three quality receivers when healthy, but lack other options - and long-term longevity, unless Walker is that guy. It wouldn't hurt in the least to get a receiver in round four or so that can return kicks as well and be a sub-package guy on offense. Injuries are a part of the game. There's a reason why people are skeptical about the future of some of the players above.

Who thought Green Bay would take another receiver when they had Jennings and Driver last year? Now they have three good receivers, with a bunch of other solid options. Teams build up on offense and allow their quarterbacks to do good things. Look at Indianapolis, Green Bay, New England, Cincinnati's, etc. all as examples. It doesn't have to be a first day need, and it probably won't be - but if there is value there, the team will look for it.

There is nothing wrong with Denver going for a Darius Reynaud in round four or five to help this team. It's that sort of optimism that lead teams to overlook needs, and it certainly was overlooking what we had this year due to the injuries. Thankfully, Marshall stepped up, but the fans and posters on this board have earned the right to question everyone outside him, and for good reason.

I don't mind this at all; I like this option more than paying for a free agent #2 or #3 receiver, but I'd rather we get a receiver even later than round 4. Most resources for this coming draft should be focussed on both sides of the line.

[aberdien]

Let's do what the Patriots did...get a good o-line and d-line and work around them.

[Npba900]

I know we need help on the O line and D-line, but if I had to choose for 2008, I would choose that Denver concentrates to upgrade the O line via free agency. In other words, Denver needs to use the same format that was used to bring Habib, Zimmerman, and Schelreth into the mix, which eventually allowed TD to have those monster seasons and was key to our SB runs. Denver needs to sign Faneca, Starks, Goss, in that order. Lepis has retired, Harris is coming off back injury and un proven; Why risk Cutler's Health with playing behind another unproven O line in 2008?

Fans have short memories, back in the 1995 season, Denver finished 7-9, brought in veteran O lineman for the 1996, finished 13-3 and then the next two season won two connsecutive Super Bowls!

Denver's future and franchise QB needs O line help! After watching him getting Tee'd off on for most of the season in 07, question is the law of averages says you QB can get hurt b/c of a porous O-line. In 2008, lets protect the future (Jay Culter) by upgrading the O-line. We already have a talented group of receivers (Marshall, Stokely, Scheftter) and hopefully Walker! So imagine if in 2008, Cutler has Brady or Manning type protection to throw behind!

Upgrading the O line with "Faneca, Starks, and Goss" should vastly improve Denver's Red Zone consistency and scoring. Also, Denver needs to add bigger athletic lead blocking FB's to further improve our run scoring capability in the Red Zone.

With Cutler getting more time to throw (like Manning & Brady), the Broncos can put up points and take early leads. To protect those leads, Denver will need a lead block FB to supplement the upgraded O-line to convert 3rd and short to keep the clocking going in the 4th Qtr.

Meanwhile, Denver can continue to rebuild the Defense thru the draft. Shanahan's goal for 2008, should be to make the offense a scoring threat of lets say 30 to 37 points per game; while the rebuilding Defense is sproradically giving up 25 to 28 points per game. Now in 2009 or 2010, the Defense should no longer give up 25 to 28 points per game and should be a top 5 Defense to go along with a top 5 offense.