My 1st mock draft for 2008

[DenBronx]

Assuming we pick 9th. I included a summary for each propect and a couple of highlights. This is only 5 rounds. I know this is early but never too early to start looking.

Now I know Long will require moving up a couple of slots but I think a guy like this is something you build your offense with and will provide solid protection for Cutler right away. I'd rather us spend money on him than an old vet so I can see us trading a player and 4th rounder pick to get him. We should have two 4th rounders so we will trade one. Frank Okam I see as a dark horse and falling out of the 1st round. I just have a feeling he will but I could be wrong if not he would also be worth trading up to get only if it is in reach.

Round 1: Jake Long, OT, Michigan 6'7 313

Michigan is as good as school in the country at producing lineman, and Long is next in line. He was solid his first two years in the program but took a step up as a junior last year. He was named team captain on his way to earning All American and All Big 10 honors.

Thomas is the prototype left tackle. He has an excellent frame, with room to potentially add more bulk. He is a good athlete that slides well laterally in pass protection and can adjust to athletic edge rushers. In the running game he shows the ability to drive people off the ball, and the ability to block on the move.

There isn’t much to dislike about Long’s game. Maybe he isn’t an athletic freak or dominant at the point of attack on every play, but he is a complete tackle prospect.

Long could have been a Top 10 pick last season but decided to return for his senior year. As long as he stays healthy, Long should be one of the top five selections in the draft come April.

Round 2: Frank Okam, DT, Texas 6'5 320

Okam was a heralded recruit that had an immediate impact for the Longhorns in 2004. He earned Freshman AA honors after finishing the year with 22 tackles, six for loss, and two sacks. A year later as a sophomore he had 48 tackles, five for loss, and a sack on his way to earning All Big 12 2nd team honors. Last season as a junior, Okam had 37 tackles, six for loss, and two sacks.

Okam has all the athletic talents you could hope for in a defensive tackle. He has excellent size and can hold his ground at the point of attack. He can take on blocks, control running lanes, and bring down the ball carrier. He is not just a run stopper, as he is an excellent athlete that has the quickness and change of direction ability to get into the backfield and make tackles behind the line of scrimmage. Okam has the ability to play in both the 3-4 and 4-3 defense.

For all his athletic gifts, Okam has never made the big plays you would assume he would make. He will take some plays off and rely on his talent too often. He needs to learn to play with more fire on a consistent basis and he could dominate.

Okam has as much upside as any defensive lineman in this draft. His ability as a run stopper and the potential as an impact penetrator should make him one of the first three defensive tackles selected in April.

Round 4: Tom Zbikowski, S, Notre Dame

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qpUi2UUFdSI

Tom Zbikowski may be one of the elite all around athletes in college football. In 2004, he totaled 63 tackles, 2.5 for loss, with an interception. As a sophomore, he elevated himself to elite status. As a safety, he had 71 tackles and five interceptions. As a punt returner, he averaged 14 yards per return, taking two of them back for touchdowns. Also a long time amateur boxer, Zbikowski also became a pro boxer, and in his debut, won with a knockout in just 49 seconds.

Two words that describe Zbikowski the most are aggressive and tough. He is on the attack in everything he does. As a safety, he looks to lower the boom when tackling. When the ball is in the air, he goes after it as hard as the receiver does. He loves attacking the line of scrimmage to stop the run, but has fantastic ball skills to go along with it. Zbikowski is also an excellent returner, and it only enhances his value as a football player.

As aggressive as he is, Zbikowski is on the small side for a strong safety. He does not lack the attitude or toughness, but the way he tries to deliver a hit on every play, he may wear down in the NFL if he doesn’t get bigger.

Tom Zbikowski is listed as a senior, but he has a chance to return to Notre Dame for his final season of eligibility. In a deep safety at the top, he may choose to return, but he has the talent to be a playmaker in the NFL. He may only rank as a third rounder this year, but his ability as a strong safety and punt returner will be attractive to many NFL teams.

Round 5: Andre Caldwell, WR, Florida 6’1 200

http://youtube.com/watch?v=VFpCVummTZE

Caldwell caught 19 passes for 174 yards as a freshman. As a sophomore he looked like he was about to become a star when he finished with 43 catches for 689 yards and three touchdowns. He entered his junior year with huge expectations but a broken leg against Tennessee ended his season after just 10 catches for 148 yards. He was hurt early enough to receive a medical redshirt, and he came back in 2006 with a solid season. He had 57 receptions for 577 yards and six touchdowns on the year. Caldwell also ran track for the Gators in 2007, running the 100m.

Caldwell is a player that has a lot of potential left in his game, despite playing quite a bit during his career. He is a good athlete, with solid size, and very good speed. He is not afraid to cross the middle and take a hit while trying to haul in the catch. He has the ability to get down the field vertically and can make plays with the ball in his hands. Caldwell even has experience returning kicks, with a career average of over 20 yards a return.

Caldwell has been productive, but that may just be because of the offense and his natural talent. He could still use some work on running routes. He needs to come in and out of his breaks quicker and sharper and become more consistent.

Caldwell has all the skills to become a solid receiver in the NFL. He may not be the biggest or most explosive, but he has the speed, toughness, and size to make some plays in the NFL.

[underrated29]

Nice draft!

I would absolutely kill for the 1st two picks to shake out that way. Fro what i have been tuned in for, the other draft guys seem to think frank will be a 1st rdr. So probably a no to us getting both. If we do...dayyum!

Only other thing is there are no linebackers. I am going to assume that you were basing this off of the fact that we might sign one in FA. Which is cool.

But i also think that we will need to pick up another DT- whether through draft or FA. BUt overall nice job!

[BOSSHOGG30]

God please don't let the Broncos draft a wide reciever from Florida, and please don't let us draft Tom Zbikowski... because he sucks.

[CoachChaz]

If those are the picks we'll make in middle rounds...just trade them away
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[DenBronx]

Nice draft!

I would absolutely kill for the 1st two picks to shake out that way. Fro what i have been tuned in for, the other draft guys seem to think frank will be a 1st rdr. So probably a no to us getting both. If we do...dayyum!

Only other thing is there are no linebackers. I am going to assume that you were basing this off of the fact that we might sign one in FA. Which is cool.

But i also think that we will need to pick up another DT- whether through draft or FA. BUt overall nice job!



exactlly my thoughts. i was basing this as if we were to take a look at briggs or dansby. another dt would be great and possible another guard too. this is just an early mock and i'm sure will change several times depending on who we go after this offseason.

[DenBronx]

God please don't let the Broncos draft a wide reciever from Florida, and please don't let us draft Tom Zbikowski... because he sucks.


we drafted a floridian by the name of brandon marshall and he has worked out hasnt he? caldwell also returns kicks and averages over 20 yards per return. he would do fine as a 4th or 5th wr....someone to groom.

and why all the hate for zib? the guy plays on a terrible notre dame team. he hits like a ton of bricks and reminds me alot of john lynch. if lynch stays another year zib could learn from the best. have you even seen his stats? he also returns punts so he is pretty fast.

[DenBronx]

If those are the picks we'll make in middle rounds...just trade them away

gee, way to contribute to the topic. :rolleyes:

[BOSSHOGG30]

we drafted a floridian by the name of brandon marshall and he has worked out hasnt he? caldwell also returns kicks and averages over 20 yards per return. he would do fine as a 4th or 5th wr....someone to groom.

and why all the hate for zib? the guy plays on a terrible notre dame team. he hits like a ton of bricks and reminds me alot of john lynch. if lynch stays another year zib could learn from the best. have you even seen his stats? he also returns punts so he is pretty fast.

Florida Gator! sorry I wasn't specific enough.... Florida Gator receviers stink...period! Why would we want one? Better look up your history on Florida gator receivers.... might as well take a QB from Texas tech or Hawaii while we are at it.

[DenBronx]

Florida Gator! sorry I wasn't specific enough.... Florida Gator receviers stink...period! Why would we want one? Better look up your history on Florida gator receivers.... might as well take a QB from Texas tech or Hawaii while we are at it.

i dont buy into that. just like i didnt buy into that cutler was from vandy. if we would have bypassed cutler just because he was from a poor program then that would have been stupid.

[BOSSHOGG30]

i dont buy into that. just like i didnt buy into that cutler was from vandy. if we would have bypassed cutler just because he was from a poor program then that would have been stupid.

Vanderbilt isn't shooting out QB after QB each year with high expectations. Jay Cutler was rare and still unproven.

Look at Florida every year they have someone come out that everyone says will be good... yet it is rare... they do good in college, but never live up to the hype in the NFL.


Reche Caldwell
Jabar Gaffney
Ike Hilliard
Chad Jackson
Taylor Jacobs
Travis Taylor
Dallas Baker

I hear it every year... I like so and so from Florida he did really good, just look at his stats...blah blah blah.... System player 99% of the time. Yes, college players do produce well due to a system, like it or not.

[DenBronx]

Vanderbilt isn't shooting out QB after QB each year with high expectations. Jay Cutler was rare and still unproven.

Look at Florida every year they have someone come out that everyone says will be good... yet it is rare... they do good in college, but never live up to the hype in the NFL.


Reche Caldwell
Jabar Gaffney
Ike Hilliard
Chad Jackson
Taylor Jacobs
Travis Taylor
Dallas Baker

I hear it every year... I like so and so from Florida he did really good, just look at his stats...blah blah blah.... System player 99% of the time. Yes, college players do produce well due to a system, like it or not.


i'm not trying to defend gator wr's. but i was mainly looking at caldwell because he is more than just a wr...he also returns as i said earlier. my thinking was he was good value in the 5th.

[sneakers]

I already have a nickname for Okam....Okam's Razor! Named after the theory Occam's Razor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor).

I am such a dork.

[BOSSHOGG30]

i'm not trying to defend gator wr's. but i was mainly looking at caldwell because he is more than just a wr...he also returns as i said earlier. my thinking was he was good value in the 5th.

So did
Reche Caldwell
Jabar Gaffney
Ike Hilliard
Taylor Jacobs
Travis Taylor
Dallas Baker

[MOtorboat]

Now Boss, don't scare our new forum.

Boss really isn't that bad. He just really hates RBs from Cal, WRs from Florida, QBs from Hawaii and Texas Tech.

Other than that, he pretty much knows his stuff.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Now Boss, don't scare our new forum.

Boss really isn't that bad. He just really hates RBs from Cal, WRs from Florida, QBs from Hawaii and Texas Tech.

Other than that, he pretty much knows his stuff.

don't forgert wide recievers from Tennessee

[MOtorboat]

don't forgert wide recievers from Tennessee

LMAO!

Quit while you're ahead boss.

Why don't you break down the offensive tackle prospects for us.

[CoachChaz]

Yeah...but he's still a Sox fan. That has to lose brownie points somewhere
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[CoachChaz]

LMAO!

Quit while you're ahead boss.

Why don't you break down the offensive tackle prospects for us.

I hate OT's from Colorado State with names that sound like fruits.
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[G_Money]

Wide receiver is gonna be a very volatile list this year, I’m thinking. The combine is gonna mean a lot to draft position, because there are guys all over the place who can run routes and catch balls. I’m trying not to work on draft position until after the combine, because the 40 times are gonna just blow up all my work anyway.

I’m hoping the coastal schools get their guys chosen early, because there are some seriously talented wides in the schools with less pedigree. I agree with you that Andre Caldwell would be a good 5th round value, but I just can’t see him falling that far without running a couple of 4.6s or something at the combine and falling down a lot in the bowl games.

IMO you’re much more likely to see a guy like Dorien Bryant fall, or one of my personal faves Will Franklin or Jordy Nelson.

A bad time from one of those guys will drop him a couple rounds. A bad time from Caldwell won’t drop him as far, and I have him as a first day guy right now. I don’t think enough NFL people learned their lesson from Ginn (who I hated) and still think that potential + sub-par routes + return skills = first day talent.

Nelson and Bryant have KR skills as well, but they’re not as glam as Caldwell so I think they’ll last longer.

We’ll see, I guess – I’d have taken Ted Ginn Jr. in the 5th as well, so if your draft position pans out I’m not against the pick.

I’m against Big Z as a safety because he has ear-marks of a draft bust:

1) School with a big name where talent is expected
2) Down year by team masks his deficiencies (which were showing up last year too)
3) Lack of talent around him takes blame for his failures
4) Doesn’t love football, but plays it because he’s good at it (see boxing side project)

Zbikowski can run pretty well, but he overpursues like a mother, and is a huge sucker for the play-fake because he wants to run up and hit somebody. And then he’ll let a guy by him by biting on a hip fake to boot.

I just think the Archuletta comparisons are valid. He’s a useful guy in the box or on the blitz, but I think he misses too much in the box and we’ve forgotten the meaning of the word “blitz.” He can run but can’t really cover, and looks really good getting in on lots of plays…just a bit too late.

Again, in the 4th there are worse things, but I would seriously take Woodyard from Kentucky and turn that kid back into a safety before I’d grab Zib. He just looks like he’s about to max out to me.

(Aside: please feel free to keep a copy of this and mock me when he turns into the next Lynch. Just because I like talking about it doesn’t mean I’m right...)

~G

[MOtorboat]

Wide receiver is gonna be a very volatile list this year, I’m thinking. The combine is gonna mean a lot to draft position, because there are guys all over the place who can run routes and catch balls. I’m trying not to work on draft position until after the combine, because the 40 times are gonna just blow up all my work anyway.

I’m hoping the coastal schools get their guys chosen early, because there are some seriously talented wides in the schools with less pedigree. I agree with you that Andre Caldwell would be a good 5th round value, but I just can’t see him falling that far without running a couple of 4.6s or something at the combine and falling down a lot in the bowl games.

IMO you’re much more likely to see a guy like Dorien Bryant fall, or one of my personal faves Will Franklin or Jordy Nelson.

A bad time from one of those guys will drop him a couple rounds. A bad time from Caldwell won’t drop him as far, and I have him as a first day guy right now. I don’t think enough NFL people learned their lesson from Ginn (who I hated) and still think that potential + sub-par routes + return skills = first day talent.

Nelson and Bryant have KR skills as well, but they’re not as glam as Caldwell so I think they’ll last longer.

We’ll see, I guess – I’d have taken Ted Ginn Jr. in the 5th as well, so if your draft position pans out I’m not against the pick.

I’m against Big Z as a safety because he has ear-marks of a draft bust:

1) School with a big name where talent is expected
2) Down year by team masks his deficiencies (which were showing up last year too)
3) Lack of talent around him takes blame for his failures
4) Doesn’t love football, but plays it because he’s good at it (see boxing side project)

Zbikowski can run pretty well, but he overpursues like a mother, and is a huge sucker for the play-fake because he wants to run up and hit somebody. And then he’ll let a guy by him by biting on a hip fake to boot.

I just think the Archuletta comparisons are valid. He’s a useful guy in the box or on the blitz, but I think he misses too much in the box and we’ve forgotten the meaning of the word “blitz.” He can run but can’t really cover, and looks really good getting in on lots of plays…just a bit too late.

Again, in the 4th there are worse things, but I would seriously take Woodyard from Kentucky and turn that kid back into a safety before I’d grab Zib. He just looks like he’s about to max out to me.

(Aside: please feel free to keep a copy of this and mock me when he turns into the next Lynch. Just because I like talking about it doesn’t mean I’m right...)

~G

:drool:

10 characters.

[CoachChaz]

Nelson is a guy I see going in the 3rd and maybe dropping to the 4th. His stock seems to be improving in scouting circles. Bryant could easily fall because of the size factor, but NFL teams like his return potential. Franklin is the guy I see sitting there the longest. He'd be a nice 5th round pick up, but I'd prefer a guy like Monk in that slot.

I have zero love for the big Polack from ND. If we go safety in that area, I'm much more attracted to Adams or Barrett.
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Amc rebel (http://www.dodge-wiki.com/wiki/AMC_Rebel)

[BOSSHOGG30]

One #1 (ILB James Laurinaitis)
The Broncos need help on defense, and an elite linebacker like James Laurinaitis could provide a great boost to the team. The Broncos are 31st against the run, something that Laurinaitis would be able to remedy right away. With Marcus Thomas developing at DT (no surprise to anyone who knew his play at Florida), and Elvis Dumervil turning into a sack machine at DE, the addition of Laurinaitis could take the Broncos to another level against the rush. Dan Conner is another possibility if Denver decides to keep D.J. at MLB.

One#2 (DT Frank Okam)
Denver has had trouble stopping the run. D.J. Williams has plenty of speed, but he is always getting blocked. Okam will take up blockers and stuff the run and give the Broncos a nice accomplice with Marcus Thomas

Two #4 (FS Simeon Castille) & (OT Max Unger)
John Lynch and Nick Ferguson will have to be put into an old-age home soon. OK, maybe I'm exaggerating, but they'll be 37 and 33, respectively, once the 2008 season commences. Castille is a cornerback/safety prospect. He had a great 2006 season, but failed to repeat that success in 2007. This drops his stock, but I like Castilles size and speed at the safety position. He is a ball hawk type safety who isn't afraid to hit.

Max is a good OT for a team with a zone-blocking scheme. Denver needs to protect franchise QB Jay Cutler and Matt Lepsis is getting older and injury prone. Max will give the Broncos another option along with Erik Pears and Ryan Harris.

Two #5 (WR Sammie Stroughter) & (RB Xavier Omon)
Denver needs a kick returner and another receiver. Sammie fits the bill. A very explosive receiver and return specialist. He has been timed in the 4.3 range. Check out his 2006 stats: 74 catches, 1,293 yards and 5 TDs.

It seems Denver is always looking for another good runningback. Injuries have plagued the Broncos at this position, so Shanny likes to have plenty of depth. Denver will take a chance on Omon. He is the 2nd leading rusher in division II history and has the running style Denver likes with its zone blocking scheme.

Two #7 (P Mike Dragosavich) & (OLB Andy Studebaker)
Sauerbrun is in and out of trouble and Shanahan has to be upset. Denver will look to the draft to replace him. Dragosavich is a big guy with an even bigger leg.

Andy Studebacker is an intriguing prospect out of Wheaton. , Anyone who can run a 4.4 at 245 pounds, he's worth checking out.

[CoachChaz]

If Laurinitis declares and is available, I like this mock. If not...I'd go with Phillips in the first, Okam/Bryant/Moore in the 2nd.
________
Vaporizer (http://vaporizers.net/)

[BOSSHOGG30]

If Laurinitis declares and is available, I like this mock. If not...I'd go with Phillips in the first, Okam/Bryant/Moore in the 2nd.

If Laurinitis doesn't come out I go with Sedrick Ellis in the 1st and instead of DT in the 2nd I would go after LB Crable from Michigan in the 2nd.

[CoachChaz]

If Laurinitis doesn't come out I go with Sedrick Ellis in the 1st and instead of DT in the 2nd I would go after LB Crable from Michigan in the 2nd.

Ellis is growing on me, but a respected guy I know at the firm always refers to Phillips as a cross between Taylor and Reed. I know we need run stopeers, but it's hard to pass up on something like that.
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[BOSSHOGG30]

Ellis is growing on me, but a respected guy I know at the firm always refers to Phillips as a cross between Taylor and Reed. I know we need run stopeers, but it's hard to pass up on something like that.

I know I wouldn't be upset with any of those guys. Kenny is a good player and a big need... As long as it Defense in the 1st round and maybe...maybe O-line I won't get upset.

[CoachChaz]

I know I wouldn't be upset with any of those guys. Kenny is a good player and a big need... As long as it Defense in the 1st round and maybe...maybe O-line I won't get upset.

Only 2 guys I take top 10 O-line. Long and Otah. I want to see a defensive heavy draft all around.
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[haroldthebarrel]

hey cool to see you back on the draft thread coachaz.

I think this draft is a good one. We are lucky in that it is very deep at lb and Ot which we need. What about DTs in this draft?
I think a lot of that Maryland DT, what is your opinion of him?

[CoachChaz]

hey cool to see you back on the draft thread coachaz.

I think this draft is a good one. We are lucky in that it is very deep at lb and Ot which we need. What about DTs in this draft?
I think a lot of that Maryland DT, what is your opinion of him?

I love Dre Moore. But not as much as Dorsey, Ellis or Balmer. I put him in the class with Pressley, Okam and Bryant.
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Honda Wave series (http://www.honda-wiki.org/wiki/Honda_Wave_series)

[BOSSHOGG30]

I forgot about Balmer.... His stock might rise a little after the combine, but he is very good. That would be one heck of a 2nd round pick if he falls that far.

[CoachChaz]

I forgot about Balmer.... His stock might rise a little after the combine, but he is very good. That would be one heck of a 2nd round pick if he falls that far.

his weight will have alot to do with that. If he's under 300, he could drop a little, but if he's at 300 or higher, he could sneak into round 1 depending on team needs. At 6'5", he has the frame to carry alot more weight.
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[lex]

We should really load up on Tackle this draft. I dont think Long is there at 9 but if he is, that would be a good pick. We should also take someone like Cousins later and Zuttah in the 5th or so.

We devoted practically our entire draft last year to the defensive line. We have a lot of youth on the defensive line. If we are going to augment that unit, it should be by mixing in a FA vet.

Also, there was an article a few weeks ago about how DJ is finally coming on at Mike...so that would rule out Laurinaitis. Besides, Im not sold on Laurinaitis and we could pick up a quality player in Kehl later.

[BOSSHOGG30]

We should really load up on Tackle this draft. I dont think Long is there at 9 but if he is, that would be a good pick. We should also take someone like Cousins later and Zuttah in the 5th or so.

We devoted practically our entire draft last year to the defensive line. We have a lot of youth on the defensive line. If we are going to augment that unit, it should be by mixing in a FA vet.

Also, there was an article a few weeks ago about how DJ is finally coming on at Mike...so that would rule out Laurinaitis. Besides, Im not sold on Laurinaitis and we could pick up a quality player in Kehl later.

Laurinaitis is a stud! Your talking Patrick Willis quality here.... Plus if you think about it... Draft a MLB and you fix two problems on the defense. You not only upgrade OLB by moving D.J. back to weak side (where he dominated as a rookie!) but you keep a solid young, promising player at MLB.

[lex]

Laurinaitis is a stud! Your talking Patrick Willis quality here.... Plus if you think about it... Draft a MLB and you fix two problems on the defense. You not only upgrade OLB by moving D.J. back to weak side (where he dominated as a rookie!) but you keep a solid young, promising player at MLB.

Our bigger problem is the offensive line and we actually need two tackles. If we dont have a tackle, we're not going to have a quarterback.

Besides, Ive seen a lot of Ohio State games living here in Chicago and Im not as impressed with him as a lot of people seem to be. Consider that at Ohio State he has had the best of everything. Since Ohio State gets blue chip players all over the place, how do you know he is better than some other MLBs who didnt have that kind of a DLine in front of them?

[CoachChaz]

I equate Laurinitis to a young Urlacher. When you scout a player you have to look at intangibles. Little things like how he approaches situations. Yes, he will benefit from having quality players around him, but other than Jenkins and Gholston...none of them are top tier studs.

Saying Laurinitis isn't as good as advertised because of his team is like saying Glenn Dorsey is overrated because LSU has a great overall defense. I'd like to add OT's as well, but they are a little easier to come by than solid defensive players in areas of desperate need.
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[lex]

I equate Laurinitis to a young Urlacher. When you scout a player you have to look at intangibles. Little things like how he approaches situations. Yes, he will benefit from having quality players around him, but other than Jenkins and Gholston...none of them are top tier studs.

Saying Laurinitis isn't as good as advertised because of his team is like saying Glenn Dorsey is overrated because LSU has a great overall defense. I'd like to add OT's as well, but they are a little easier to come by than solid defensive players in areas of desperate need.

No its not like saying that at all. Dorsey plays on the front line of the defense. Laurinaitis relies on guys in front of him, Dorsey doesnt. And how do you know Laurinaitis is better than, say, Spencer Larsen or Beau Bell?

[BOSSHOGG30]

Our bigger problem is the offensive line and we actually need two tackles. If we dont have a tackle, we're not going to have a quarterback.

Besides, Ive seen a lot of Ohio State games living here in Chicago and Im not as impressed with him as a lot of people seem to be. Consider that at Ohio State he has had the best of everything. Since Ohio State gets blue chip players all over the place, how do you know he is better than some other MLBs who didnt have that kind of a DLine in front of them?

Are you forgetting Ryan Harris? We drafted him last year.... Denver has high hopes for him. Hamilton will probably be back and he will probably move to center. Then you have Pears, who hasn't been awesome, but he is still young and learning. Holland and Kuper are two really promising, young guards. All we need is depth on the o-line. A free agent or later round pick is our best bet at fixing what you think is a major problem.

[CoachChaz]

No its not like saying that at all. Dorsey plays on the front line of the defense. Laurinaitis relies on guys in front of him, Dorsey doesnt. And how do you know Laurinaitis is better than, say, Spencer Larsen or Beau Bell?

That makes no sense. Dorsey is more important to his team or displays his ailities better because he doesn't rely on help? I guess LSU doesn't use any stunts.

It's hard to compare the two being at 2 different positions, but many a good MLB came from a school that had a good overall defense. Don't you think DJ benefitted from playing with Vilma and vice versa? They turned out alright. How about David Harris playing on a tough Michigan defense last year?

Teams are good because they have great players...not in spite of that fact.
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[lex]

Are you forgetting Ryan Harris? We drafted him last year.... Denver has high hopes for him. Hamilton will probably be back and he will probably move to center. Then you have Pears, who hasn't been awesome, but he is still young and learning. Holland and Kuper are two really promising, young guards. All we need is depth on the o-line. A free agent or later round pick is our best bet at fixing what you think is a major problem.

You obviously didnt watch the game last night. Pears is bad, not because he is learning but because he isnt talented enough. And it would be a big mistake to pin your hopes on Ryan Harris considering how little he played this year and that it was his back that he injured. Neglecting to address tackle because you pin your hopes on Harris is like the Cubs not getting pitching for two years because they were hoping prior and Wood were going to be healthy.

[lex]

That makes no sense. Dorsey is more important to his team or displays his ailities better because he doesn't rely on help? I guess LSU doesn't use any stunts.

It's hard to compare the two being at 2 different positions, but many a good MLB came from a school that had a good overall defense. Don't you think DJ benefitted from playing with Vilma and vice versa? They turned out alright. How about David Harris playing on a tough Michigan defense last year?

Teams are good because they have great players...not in spite of that fact.

When you watch a defensive tackle stack up his guy or get penetration, he is winning a head to head matchup. When you watch a MLB freely run to the ball, its hard to know if he is better than other MLBs with dlines that arent as good.

[BOSSHOGG30]

You obviously didnt watch the game last night. Pears is bad, not because he is learning but because he isnt talented enough. And it would be a big mistake to pin your hopes on Ryan Harris considering how little he played this year and that it was his back that he injured. Neglecting to address tackle because you pin your hopes on Harris is like the Cubs not getting pitching for two years because they were hoping prior and Wood were going to be healthy.

So instead of pinning my hopes on Ryan Harris considering how little he played this year, you would rather put faith in a rookie? Oh, and Pears has had his moments, I agree is struggled this year, but he is very young, I'm not going to give up on him so fast.

[CoachChaz]

When you watch a defensive tackle stack up his guy or get penetration, he is winning a head to head matchup. When you watch a MLB freely run to the ball, its hard to know if he is better than other MLBs with dlines that arent as good.

Not if you watch other traits other than just getting to the ball easy.
________
Honda Z50M (http://www.honda-wiki.org/wiki/Honda_Z50M)

[CoachChaz]

So instead of pinning my hopes on Ryan Harris considering how little he played this year, you would rather put faith in a rookie? Oh, and Pears has had his moments, I agree is struggled this year, but he is very young, I'm not going to give up on him so fast.

I will. it kills me to watch him most of the time.
________
Gm Ultra Engine Specifications (http://www.chevy-wiki.com/wiki/GM_Ultra_Engine)

[BOSSHOGG30]

I will. it kills me to watch him most of the time.

Then move Lepsis to Right tackle or look to the free agency as I stated above... I'm not saying the O-line is perfect, but it isn't as bad as some are making it sound. Defense is far worse.

[CoachChaz]

Then move Lepsis to Right tackle or look to the free agency as I stated above... I'm not saying the O-line is perfect, but it isn't as bad as some are making it sound. Defense is far worse.

I'm content with Nalen, Kuper and Holland in the middle. After Nails is done, I think Myers can step in...but we need help at the tackle spots. Lepsis is at the end of the line and Pears makes me want to scream.
________
Honda Cb750A (http://www.honda-wiki.org/wiki/Honda_CB750A)

[lex]

So instead of pinning my hopes on Ryan Harris considering how little he played this year, you would rather put faith in a rookie? Oh, and Pears has had his moments, I agree is struggled this year, but he is very young, I'm not going to give up on him so fast.

Its called hedging your bets. Besides, we need two tackles and Harris wasnt even a first round pick and its supposed to be a better draft for tackles this year. And btw, Pears sucks and has been routinely getting beat. If we stick with him, he'll get Jay killed at some point.

[lex]

Not if you watch other traits other than just getting to the ball easy.

OK, again, how do you know Laurinaitis is better than, say, Spencer Larsen?

[BOSSHOGG30]

Its called hedging your bets. Besides, we need two tackles and Harris wasnt even a first round pick and its supposed to be a better draft for tackles this year. And btw, Pears sucks and has been routinely getting beat. If we stick with him, he'll get Jay killed at some point.

Go get Max Starks then... thing is the draft is heavy loaded with awesome defensive talent... you have to go into the off season planning everything out.

We both agree we need D-line, Linebacker, Safety, O-line, and maybe a wide out? correct?

1st step.... look at free agency and at the NFL draft.

Free Agent
Strong:
O-line
Linebacker

Weak:
Defensive Tackle
Safety
QB

NFL Draft
Strong:
Linebacker
O-line
D-line
Runningback

Weak:
Wideout
QB


Since you can't really get help for the DT and Safety positions in free agency, it might be smart to focus your top picks in the NFL draft on these positions. And considering the age of many of our offensive linemen, it probably isn't a good idea to throw in even more youth and less experience, a free agent with experience would be better for the Denver Broncos.

[BOSSHOGG30]

OK, again, how do you know Laurinaitis is better than, say, Spencer Larsen?

You do know you are talking to a professional scout right? Yes, Coach is a scout.

[G_Money]

Personally I think we've done better with 2nd day offensive picks than defensive, and as our pathetic performances against any moderately competent defense this year show we could use some upgrades to the O as well.

So if I had my way:

- 1st and 2nd round picks spent on two new defensive starters (preferrably not on the D-Line, because 1st round DL talents bust A LOT).

- majority of 2nd day picks spent on offense. RB, WR, OL. Feel free to draft a project defender, a talent that falls, or some DL depth, but I want mostly O guys here.

What about the DL? Well...honestly, we had that draft, and it was last year. If those 3 guys don't work out we're boned. I like Dre Moore and could be talked into a couple of other guys with a 2nd round pick, but none in the 1st round unless all our our LB and Safety 1st round options are gone. We're castrating Marcus Thomas with this worthless excuse for a scheme and we always knew Moss was a project - now he's just an injured project. Mario Williams was a project too and he's doing pretty well in his sophomore campaign. Judging those guys off of this year is a tough task.

Let the kids play, fill em in with whatever vets work, get better LB talent and S talent in the draft to help in the box, get a better scheme so we're not playing 60 minutes of Prevent Defense and see where that gets us.

We need to hit on a buncha guys in this draft, and IMO we'll have more luck doing that if we go offense on day 2.

~G

[CoachChaz]

You do know you are talking to a professional scout right? Yes, Coach WAS a scout.

Edited for accuracy
________
Honda Cx Series History (http://www.honda-wiki.org/wiki/Honda_CX_series)

[BOSSHOGG30]

:beer: good post G:2thumbs:

[lex]

You do know you are talking to a professional scout right? Yes, Coach is a scout.

Then he should be able to answer this question that Ive asked twice now.

[CoachChaz]

Personally I think we've done better with 2nd day offensive picks than defensive, and as our pathetic performances against any moderately competent defense this year show we could use some upgrades to the O as well.

So if I had my way:

- 1st and 2nd round picks spent on two new starters (preferrably not on the D-Line, because 1st round DL talents bust A LOT).

- majority of 2nd day picks spent on offense. RB, WR, OL. Feel free to draft a project defender, a talent that falls, or some DL depth, but I want mostly O guys here.

What about the DL? Well...honestly, we had that draft, and it was last year. If those 3 guys don't work out we're boned. I like Dre Moore and could be talked into a couple of other guys with a 2nd round pick, but none in the 1st round unless all our our LB and Safety 1st round options are gone. We're castrating Marcus Thomas with this worthless excuse for a scheme and we always knew Moss was a project - now he's just an injured project. Mario Williams was a project too and he's doing pretty well in his sophomore campaign. Judging those guys off of this year is a tough task.

Let the kids play, fill em in with whatever vets work, get better LB talent and S talent in the draft to help in the box, get a better scheme so we're not playing 60 minutes of Prevent Defense and see where that gets us.

We need to hit on a buncha guys in this draft, and IMO we'll have more luck doing that if we go offense on day 2.

~G

I'll say it again. Go to a more conventional scheme and Thomas will threaten to get double digit sack totals.
________
Babimac (http://twitter.com/SwiperboyzBabiM)

[G_Money]

I'll say it again. Go to a more conventional scheme and Thomas will threaten to get double digit sack totals.

Yep.

What Marcus is good at = Upfield movement, using his strength and surprising speed for a guy that big to rip gaps and disrupt the backfield.

What we want Marcus to do = stand in one place, don't get too far upfield, hold his gap responsibility and not pursue.

He should be getting 6-8 sacks a year, but this is the exact wrong scheme for him to play.

~G

[BOSSHOGG30]

Then he should be able to answer this question that Ive asked twice now.

Not sure... why don't you answer lex Coach? Larsen compared to the animal?

Sure speed has something to do with it....
Larsen's best forty to date... 4.85
Animanl best forty to date...4.55

Size... about the same size, but again, for the animal to run a 4.55 at 245 pounds that is pretty darn good.

Age... How old is Larsen? come on coach find out for me... He has to be old right? He has been in college since 2002.

Injury prone... Larsen... yes... Animal.... no

[CoachChaz]

So are you going to tell me that Larsen doesn't benefit from having Lionel Dotson in front of him and Nate Ness and Dominic Patrick behind him? Even Laurinitis doesn't have that kind of quality around him.

Larsen is solid and tough and has a good motor, but he lacks the size and speed I am looking for. he gets swallowed by bigger linemen and doesn't have great coverage skills.
________
TOYOTA AR ENGINE HISTORY (http://www.toyota-wiki.com/wiki/Toyota_AR_engine)

[lex]

So are you going to tell me that Larsen doesn't benefit from having Lionel Dotson in front of him and Nate Ness and Dominic Patrick behind him? Even Laurinitis doesn't have that kind of quality around him.

Larsen is solid and tough and has a good motor, but he lacks the size and speed I am looking for. he gets swallowed by bigger linemen and doesn't have great coverage skills.
Larsen played really well against Oregon and USC. I would tend to guess that however good Dotson is, USC or Oregon had someone his equal across from him. And actually, I originally said Larsen and Bell. They were just examples. But is it true that Laurinaitis doesnt get swallowed by bigger OLinemen or do they just not get to him as often? What about Goff, Bell and Leman?

[BOSSHOGG30]

Actually, I originally said Larsen and Bell. They were just examples. But is it true that Laurinaitis doesnt get swallowed by bigger OLinemen or do they just not get to him as often? What about Goff, Bell and Leman?

Laurinaitis does a good job fighting off blocks. He has the size and speed to excel at MLB. He also has a history of proving it in the college ranks. This is why teams are so high on him over the guys you mention. You do bring up one really good and important point though, It doesn't matter who you have at any of the linebacker spots... Unless you provide the linebacker protection it won't do you much good stopping the run. This is why 1st round at MLB or DT is important and then you follow that up with a MLB or DT in the 2nd round. Your are improving the middle of the trenches and playing field. This is very important. It is usually a good idea to work from the inside out.

[lex]

Not sure... why don't you answer lex Coach? Larsen compared to the animal?

Sure speed has something to do with it....
Larsen's best forty to date... 4.85
Animanl best forty to date...4.55

Size... about the same size, but again, for the animal to run a 4.55 at 245 pounds that is pretty darn good.

Age... How old is Larsen? come on coach find out for me... He has to be old right? He has been in college since 2002.

Injury prone... Larsen... yes... Animal.... no

Isnt MLB more reliant on diagnosing the play than he is 40 time?

Also, its kind of moot since the Broncos seem to be leaning toward keeping DJ at Mike, in which case you have guys like Erin Henderson and Bryan Kehl a little later.

[lex]

Laurinaitis does a good job fighting off blocks. He has the size and speed to excel at MLB. He also has a history of proving it in the college ranks. This is why teams are so high on him over the guys you mention. You do bring up one really good and important point though, It doesn't matter who you have at any of the linebacker spots... Unless you provide the linebacker protection it won't do you much good stopping the run. This is why 1st round at MLB or DT is important and then you follow that up with a MLB or DT in the 2nd round. Your are improving the middle of the trenches and playing field. This is very important. It is usually a good idea to work from the inside out.

No offense but Id rather wait for the coach to answer this. But I will say this, again, it seems problematic discerning between "not fighting through blocks" and "the line keeping the blockers off you."

[CoachChaz]

Dear Lord...how many names are you going to come up with?

Lehman is very raw. No natural athletic ability or speed. He'll never run down a back from beihind like Animal can.

Goff lacks the size and speed to play inside and piles up his stats on the weaker opponents he plays.

Bell is the mystery in this. Good size and speed, but his numbers come in the MWC. I don't care how horrible the D-line at UNLV may or may not be...if he was in the same class as Animal, his numbers would be bigger.

Hall...plain and simple, just way too slow. there are NFL linemen that can outrun him.

Moffitt...I was high on him until I saw a small, slow Ray Rice run around him, over him and through him this year.

Anyone else?
________
Toyota ur engine specifications (http://www.toyota-wiki.com/wiki/Toyota_UR_engine)

[underrated29]

I just dont see how anyone can say rb is a need right now. I could go on and on about how us not stopping the run affects our whole game plan including offensively, but for now lets jsut look at our rb scenario.

teams usually carry only 3 rbs on the roster, we carry 4-5 if you count bell and sapp.

anyway we got travis, he is a good runner, and if the offense could ever go as normally would, he will dominate. Also has to stay healthy. Plus we owe hima ton of money.

Young- excellent young back, who has AWESOME potential. Even if we drafted dmac i dont see us cutting him.

HAll- my fav over young, but the man runs a lot harder imo than young and is faster than all of them. He also serves as a kr. We also have him super cheap like we have young.

Between those 3 guys i just dont see us cutting any of them, or trading. So in my mind they are locks, plus bell and sapp. runningback would just be a waste of a pick.

Now if a good talent falls then sure, but i think any of our big 3 could be the primary guy and excel.

I do however think that we will take another undrated guy. But i just dont see it as a need whatsoever in the draft.

[CoachChaz]

No offense but Id rather wait for the coach to answer this. But I will say this, again, it seems problematic discerning between "not fighting through blocks" and "the line keeping the blockers off you."

Every MLB wants a DT or two that demand double teams, but the reality isn't there. That leaves a lineman or fullback to focus on taking the MIKE out of the play. That's where it helps to be able to fight off blocks.

Footspeed is more important than you may think. Not every play is run up the middle and MLB's have to chase plays down. it also adds a dimension to Animal that the other MIKE's don't have...pass rushing skill.
________
A RIDE FOR CINDERELLA (http://www.chevy-wiki.com/wiki/A_Ride_for_Cinderella)

[BOSSHOGG30]

Isnt MLB more reliant on diagnosing the play than he is 40 time?

Also, its kind of moot since the Broncos seem to be leaning toward keeping DJ at Mike, in which case you have guys like Erin Henderson and Bryan Kehl a little later.

Some of the best middle linebackers are also the fastest linebackers in the NFL. Speed helps you when you lack the best defensive line. You can make a mistake or take a little longer breaking free from a block and still get to your gap assignment.

Look at some of these guys biggest strengths.. you can't teach speed... you can teach diagnosing and recognizing a play.

DeMarco Ryans
Patrick Willis
Brian Urlacher
Dan Morgan
Nick Barnett

Slower guys need good support from the defensive line.

[lex]

Not if you watch other traits other than just getting to the ball easy.

This is what you originally said that prompted that question. I guess speed and athletic ability are the primary traits that help getting to the ball, no? So I was actually thinking you were talking about something less tangible which makes sense since Mike is largely a read and react position. If you have a guy who is a little slower, he can compensate by diagnosing the play a little more quickly than the guy who is a littel faster. Besides, like I said, its kind of moot since there was an article a few weeks ago about how the brass is pleased with the progress DJ has made at Mike...so we should really be talking about Laurinaitis as an OLB.


Dear Lord...how many names are you going to come up with?

Lehman is very raw. No natural athletic ability or speed. He'll never run down a back from beihind like Animal can.

Goff lacks the size and speed to play inside and piles up his stats on the weaker opponents he plays.

Bell is the mystery in this. Good size and speed, but his numbers come in the MWC. I don't care how horrible the D-line at UNLV may or may not be...if he was in the same class as Animal, his numbers would be bigger.

Hall...plain and simple, just way too slow. there are NFL linemen that can outrun him.

Moffitt...I was high on him until I saw a small, slow Ray Rice run around him, over him and through him this year.

Anyone else?

[BOSSHOGG30]

Dear Lord...how many names are you going to come up with?

Lehman is very raw. No natural athletic ability or speed. He'll never run down a back from beihind like Animal can.

Goff lacks the size and speed to play inside and piles up his stats on the weaker opponents he plays.

Bell is the mystery in this. Good size and speed, but his numbers come in the MWC. I don't care how horrible the D-line at UNLV may or may not be...if he was in the same class as Animal, his numbers would be bigger.

Hall...plain and simple, just way too slow. there are NFL linemen that can outrun him.

Moffitt...I was high on him until I saw a small, slow Ray Rice run around him, over him and through him this year.

Anyone else?

J Leman
Dan Connor
Shawn Crable
Philip Wheeler

Please...

[CoachChaz]

This is what you originally said that prompted that question. I guess speed and athletic ability are the primary traits that help getting to the ball, no? So I was actually thinking you were talking about something less tangible which makes sense since Mike is largely a read and react position. If you have a guy who is a little slower, he can compensate by diagnosing the play a little more quickly than the guy who is a littel faster. Besides, like I said, its kind of moot since there was an article a few weeks ago about how the brass is pleased with the progress DJ has made at Mike...so we should really be talking about Laurinaitis as an OLB.

There is no doubt that a slower MLB can be successful. But the Zach Thomas' of the world don't come along every day. You can always find a gem later in the draft, but I'd be happier with Animal at MLB and DJ at the WILL
________
YAMAHA FZR600 (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Yamaha_FZR600)

[G_Money]

Besides, like I said, its kind of moot since there was an article a few weeks ago about how the brass is pleased with the progress DJ has made at Mike...so we should really be talking about Laurinaitis as an OLB.

Take the best LB available.

If it's Laurinaitis, move DJ back to the Will. He hated the Sam but would go back to the weak-side and excel there.

If it's Connor or someone else, DJ can stay in the middle and you can put Connor outside.

DJ isn't good enough at MLB to work around him. You work around the draftpick, and use the fact that DJ is a great weak-side backer and is improving as a talented MLB to your advantage by not limiting your draft options ahead of time.

I'm with Coach, though - Laurinaitis inside and DJ outside is a terrific one-two punch with a pair of great players at their natural positions. Hard to beat that.

~G

[lex]

I just dont see how anyone can say rb is a need right now. I could go on and on about how us not stopping the run affects our whole game plan including offensively, but for now lets jsut look at our rb scenario.

teams usually carry only 3 rbs on the roster, we carry 4-5 if you count bell and sapp.

anyway we got travis, he is a good runner, and if the offense could ever go as normally would, he will dominate. Also has to stay healthy. Plus we owe hima ton of money.

Young- excellent young back, who has AWESOME potential. Even if we drafted dmac i dont see us cutting him.

HAll- my fav over young, but the man runs a lot harder imo than young and is faster than all of them. He also serves as a kr. We also have him super cheap like we have young.

Between those 3 guys i just dont see us cutting any of them, or trading. So in my mind they are locks, plus bell and sapp. runningback would just be a waste of a pick.

Now if a good talent falls then sure, but i think any of our big 3 could be the primary guy and excel.

I do however think that we will take another undrated guy. But i just dont see it as a need whatsoever in the draft.

We really need to dump Bell and Sapp. Its time to call it a failure. None of those guys could block. They and Johnson were all guys too slow to be running backs. We need someone who can do the basic fullback duties like blocking.

[BOSSHOGG30]

No offense but Id rather wait for the coach to answer this. But I will say this, again, it seems problematic discerning between "not fighting through blocks" and "the line keeping the blockers off you."

Sorry... thought my opinion counted for something... guess Coaches don't really have any good input anymore... Help him out Scout.

[lex]

There is no doubt that a slower MLB can be successful. But the Zach Thomas' of the world don't come along every day. You can always find a gem later in the draft, but I'd be happier with Animal at MLB and DJ at the WILL

Someoen correctly pointed out earlier that the Dline is either going to get it done or it isnt. We have a greater need at tackle and we really need two tackles. If the defensive line comes through, theyll make the LBs and DBs look better-- whoever that is. If not, it could be rough. So a lot of it rests at their feet. Its a similar situation on the offense but we already know our tackles need to be replaced...and the last thing we need is for Jay to get injured because we are solely devoted to the defense where the draft is concerned. Also, our running game could stand to be improved. Overall our stats are decent because we shred teams like Kansas City but when we face teams like Pittsburgh, Jacksonville or San Diego, our runninng game struggles. Weve won two SBs due in large part to our ability to run the football on any field against any team.

[CoachChaz]

J Leman
Dan Connor
Shawn Crable
Philip Wheeler

Please...

Already gave you Lehman...the rest are outside guys.

Connor...not much bad to say about him. he's the top OLB in the draft. he has all the combined skills of both a MLB and an OLB. I'd just like to see him add some weight and strength.

Rivers...as fast as they come and could be nasty coming off the edge. Just a little too small and hesitant.

Highsmith...Very fast and another great option as a WILL. Just need more size and strength.

Crable...Will be perfect for a 3-4 scheme as an OLB.

Adibi...Another fast WILL that needs more size to shed blocks.

Wheeler...Stock is dropping like his production did. His lack of size and speed are being displayed.

Groves...I like him alot, but he's raw. Good size and speed. Could be another DJ with the proper coaching.

Gooden...Tons of talent...no heart
________
Hotbox Vaporizers (http://www.vaporshop.com/hotbox-vaporizer.html)

[G_Money]

I just dont see how anyone can say rb is a need right now. I could go on and on about how us not stopping the run affects our whole game plan including offensively, but for now lets jsut look at our rb scenario.

teams usually carry only 3 rbs on the roster, we carry 4-5 if you count bell and sapp.

anyway we got travis, he is a good runner, and if the offense could ever go as normally would, he will dominate. Also has to stay healthy. Plus we owe hima ton of money.

Young- excellent young back, who has AWESOME potential. Even if we drafted dmac i dont see us cutting him.

HAll- my fav over young, but the man runs a lot harder imo than young and is faster than all of them. He also serves as a kr. We also have him super cheap like we have young.

We've had all 3 guys this year.

All have been injured.

None can get the yards when they matter - on 3rd-and-a-couple or on the goal-line, they come up short.

Nalen may not come back.

Hamilton is one massive concussion away from retiring.

Our Tackles are a mess, with Lepsis needing to move to RT and Pears needing to go back to a backup role.

So if you have 3 backs who can't get it done if the O-line's second-rate and are also injury-prone, do you rely on the line improving (when you have several parts to fix) or do you draft a guy who might be part of the fix himself? Remember, our blocking scheme takes a year or two to get used to - drafted linemen can't be counted on to contribute immediately, and even FAs might be less-than-100% in this scheme the first year.

I can see drafting a RB on the second day, especially if the right one falls.

In fact, I'd hope for it.

~G

[BOSSHOGG30]

Andy Studebaker

Am I the only one that even knows this guy? He isn't getting any love at all. I don't even see him ranked in most scout blogs. Are the scouts asleep or something? What's going on Coach?

[BOSSHOGG30]

We've had all 3 guys this year.

All have been injured.

None can get the yards when they matter - on 3rd-and-a-couple or on the goal-line, they come up short.

Nalen may not come back.

Hamilton is one massive concussion away from retiring.

Our Tackles are a mess, with Lepsis needing to move to RT and Pears needing to go back to a backup role.

So if you have 3 backs who can't get it done if the O-line's second-rate and are also injury-prone, do you rely on the line improving (when you have several parts to fix) or do you draft a guy who might be part of the fix himself? Remember, our blocking scheme takes a year or two to get used to - drafted linemen can't be counted on to contribute immediately, and even FAs might be less-than-100% in this scheme the first year.

I can see drafting a RB on the second day, especially if the right one falls.

In fact, I'd hope for it.

~G

Tell them about Forte

[underrated29]

We really need to dump Bell and Sapp. Its time to call it a failure. None of those guys could block. They and Johnson were all guys too slow to be running backs. We need someone who can do the basic fullback duties like blocking.



johnson was pretty good, sad to see him cut. Sapp isnt half bad though. He is strong and churns his legs when he needs to. his blocking isnt as good, but he is a cheap backup. Bell is only a fb as an excuse to keep him on the team. He is too valuable to cut and we didnt want to ttrade him until we go to see travis and young and hall in action.

I would bet that bell is either cut/traded this year if he doesnt improve his conditioning or crack the starting 3. If we dont get a FB in draft or fa then he will stay one last time. I like him, but his days are numbered, very shortley numbered.

[CoachChaz]

Someoen correctly pointed out earlier that the Dline is either going to get it done or it isnt. We have a greater need at tackle and we really need two tackles. If the defensive line comes through, theyll make the LBs and DBs look better-- whoever that is. If not, it could be rough. So a lot of it rests at their feet. Its a similar situation on the offense but we already know our tackles need to be replaced...and the last thing we need is for Jay to get injured because we are solely devoted to the defense where the draft is concerned. Also, our running game could stand to be improved. Overall our stats are decent because we shred teams like Kansas City but when we face teams like Pittsburgh, Jacksonville or San Diego, our runninng game struggles. Weve won two SBs due in large part to our ability to run the football on any field against any team.

I'll dispute this by simply asking you to take notice of the fact that the Denver D-Line sucks...yet DJ is 2nd in the NFL in tackles. A really good D-line can take production numbers away from LB's as opposed to giving it to them.

Minnesota has the number 1 run defense and Henderson is 15th in total tackles. Denver is 30th and DJ is 2nd in tackles
________
Suzuki rf series (http://www.suzuki-tech.com/wiki/Suzuki_RF_Series)

[lex]

We've had all 3 guys this year.

All have been injured.

None can get the yards when they matter - on 3rd-and-a-couple or on the goal-line, they come up short.

Nalen may not come back.

Hamilton is one massive concussion away from retiring.

Our Tackles are a mess, with Lepsis needing to move to RT and Pears needing to go back to a backup role.

So if you have 3 backs who can't get it done if the O-line's second-rate and are also injury-prone, do you rely on the line improving (when you have several parts to fix) or do you draft a guy who might be part of the fix himself? Remember, our blocking scheme takes a year or two to get used to - drafted linemen can't be counted on to contribute immediately, and even FAs might be less-than-100% in this scheme the first year.

I can see drafting a RB on the second day, especially if the right one falls.

In fact, I'd hope for it.

~G

Is that really true? Or does that only pertain to the offensive linemen that we tend to target since we tend to get a lot of guys in the lower rounds...guys like Erik "UFA" Pears?

[lex]

I'll dispute this by simply asking you to take notice of the fact that the Denver D-Line sucks...yet DJ is 2nd in the NFL in tackles. A really good D-line can take production numbers away from LB's as opposed to giving it to them.

Minnesota has the number 1 run defense and Henderson is 15th in total tackles. Denver is 30th and DJ is 2nd in tackles

Actually, I wasnt even addressing stats. I was more referring to earlier in the season when it was a constant debate over whether the LBs or the DTs were more at fault. An improved line would clean some of that up and the LBs wouldnt look as bad as often. And actually what you said supports that. And like I said, our DLine is either goind to get it done or it isnt, once they get a FA to mix in with the young guys.

[CoachChaz]

Is that really true? Or does that only pertain to the offensive linemen that we tend to target since we tend to get a lot of guys in the lower rounds...guys like Erik "UFA" Pears?

I think they go hand in hand to an extent. A 7th round guy like Eslinger played in this scheme in college and just can't figure out the NFL. But then neither can a first round guy like Foster.
________
Honda VF and VFR history (http://www.honda-wiki.org/wiki/Honda_VF_and_VFR)

[CoachChaz]

Actually, I wasnt even addressing stats. I was more referring to earlier in the season when it was a constant debate over whether the LBs or the DTs were more at fault. An improved line would clean some of that up and the LBs wouldnt look as bad as often. And actually what you said supports that. And like I said, our DLine is either goind to get it done or it isnt, once they get a FA to mix in with the young guys.

Adding a leader AND changing the scheme. The guys we have (with the exception of Moss) just aren't "designed" for Bates system.
________
GIANCARLO BAGHETTI (http://www.ferrari-wiki.com/wiki/Giancarlo_Baghetti)

[underrated29]

you make good points g, but even then who do you think would be a better fit then henry.

The man is strong as hell and can break tackles. He is very fast for a man his size. no one can run through 3-4 guys. No one. I honestly dont think if we had the bus, or LJ, lewis that they would be able to run through or even squeeze a few inches with what our line is giving them.

Especialy a second day pick. Not discounting any of them as we have seen what guys like TD and MB3 can do. But i just dont see it. And I think defense is the key to our horrible play..

Just a theory here, but does anyone know- the games where we have scored 28+ points, what was the score of the other team, or what were their rush yards?

it seems to me the games the offense was putting up some points. The defense was also doing a decent job of stopping the run. (all off of memeory)

[CoachChaz]

you make good points g, but even then who do you think would be a better fit then henry.

The man is strong as hell and can break tackles. He is very fast for a man his size. no one can run through 3-4 guys. No one. I honestly dont think if we had the bus, or LJ, lewis that they would be able to run through or even squeeze a few inches with what our line is giving them.

Especialy a second day pick. Not discounting any of them as we have seen what guys like TD and MB3 can do. But i just dont see it. And I think defense is the key to our horrible play..

Just a theory here, but does anyone know- the games where we have scored 28+ points, what was the score of the other team, or what were their rush yards?

it seems to me the games the offense was putting up some points. The defense was also doing a decent job of stopping the run. (all off of memeory)

A Travis Henry that doesn't smoke pot, stays healthy and uses a condom every once in awhile would be perfect for Denver's system. Unfortunately we have version 1.0
________
Herbalaire vaporizer (http://www.vaporshop.com/herbalaire-vaporizer.html)

[lex]

johnson was pretty good, sad to see him cut. Sapp isnt half bad though. He is strong and churns his legs when he needs to. his blocking isnt as good, but he is a cheap backup.
OK, since the fullback is a position that mostly blocks, thats not really an argument for Sapp. If he is a fullback and he cant block, he shouldnt be on the team. And Johnsons isnt really that good at blocking either. On one hand, he gets running plays blown up at the goal line because of his horrid blocking but he makes up for it by catching that PA fake pass to the FB in the flats. I guess if you like scoring touchdowns it pays to miss blocks even though thats your primary job.

[/QUOTE] Bell is only a fb as an excuse to keep him on the team. He is too valuable to cut and we didnt want to ttrade him until we go to see travis and young and hall in action.[/QUOTE]

I know, which is why Bell shouldnt be on the team next year.

[BOSSHOGG30]

I know the Pro bowl is a popularity contest, but if you look at the starting line up of both the NFC and AFC rosters you can see that lex might have a good point about drafting O-line in the 1st round.

Figured I would try to find some reason to agree with Lex at least some what instead of just throwing out my points....

Flozell Adams: 2nd round pick
Walter Jones: 1st round pick
Matt Light: 2nd round pick
Jason Peters: Undrafted
Steve Hutchinson: 1st round pick
Leonard Davis: 1st round pick
Alan Faneca: 1st round pick
Logan Mankins: 1st round pick
Andre Gurode: 2nd round pick
Jeff Saturday: undrafed

[lex]

I think they go hand in hand to an extent. A 7th round guy like Eslinger played in this scheme in college and just can't figure out the NFL. But then neither can a first round guy like Foster.

Eslinger was undersized. We knew he was a project and we drafted him in the lower rounds. Foster was a bust but that doesnt mean we should never draft another tackle in the first round ever again. Once upon a time we drafted Mike Croel with a top 5 pick and he was a bust as well. An ongoing debate that should be occurring should be whether we go after bigger guys who are mobile enough OR do we continue going after smaller guys we hope are strong enough...because thats what Eslinger and Pears are. Shanahan himself has said that its better to get bigger linemen provided they can move well enough. You have a lot of that in this draft. We should actually look at taking 3 Olinemen, including Zuttah in the later rounds since he can play every position on the line.

[lex]

I know the Pro bowl is a popularity contest, but if you look at the starting line up of both the NFC and AFC rosters you can see that lex might have a good point about drafting O-line in the 1st round.

Figured I would try to find some reason to agree with Lex at least some what instead of just throwing out my points....

Flozell Adams: 2nd round pick
Walter Jones: 1st round pick
Matt Light: 2nd round pick
Jason Peters: Undrafted
Steve Hutchinson: 1st round pick
Leonard Davis: 1st round pick
Alan Faneca: 1st round pick
Logan Mankins: 1st round pick
Andre Gurode: 2nd round pick
Jeff Saturday: undrafed

And consider that this is supposed to be a goldmine for big mobile tackles. Plus you have more polished guys like Long and guys with a ton of upside (but are pretty good now) like Jeff Otah.

[CoachChaz]

Eslinger was undersized. We knew he was a project and we drafted him in the lower rounds. Foster was a bust but that doesnt mean we should never draft another tackle in the first round ever again. Once upon a time we drafted Mike Croel with a top 5 pick and he was a bust as well. An ongoing debate that should be occurring should be whether we go after bigger guys who are mobile enough OR do we continue going after smaller guys we hope are strong enough...because thats what Eslinger and Pears are. Shanahan himself has said that its better to get bigger linemen provided they can move well enough. You have a lot of that in this draft. We should actually look at taking 3 Olinemen, including Zuttah in the later rounds since he can play every position on the line.

My issue isn't that there isn't such a thing as actual first round talent. I'm just leaning on the fact that Shanny doesn't know what the hell it looks like.
________
UNIVERSAL HEALTH WAREHOUSE (http://uhwh.com/)

[lex]

A Travis Henry that doesn't smoke pot, stays healthy and uses a condom every once in awhile would be perfect for Denver's system. Unfortunately we have version 1.0

No kidding. It sucks having that guy on the roster. I really wish Goodell would have upheld his decision. I cant even stand that guy and he's on my team. I like to call him the cockroach since hes always there when he needs you and you cant get rid of him.

[BOSSHOGG30]

I guess I have some faith in Shanny's ability to pick up good linebackers in the 1st round... I'm not so sure about o-line and d-line.

[G_Money]

Is that really true? Or does that only pertain to the offensive linemen that we tend to target since we tend to get a lot of guys in the lower rounds...guys like Erik "UFA" Pears?

Well, Foster got into the last game of the season as a rookie 1st rounder.

Our resident 3rd rounder Harris briefly saw the field because of injuries to starters, then promptly went back to the bench and is spending his year off the field rather than on it.

They adored Kuper last year - raved about him - but the kid couldn't crack a lineup either for a significant time until his 2nd year.

And Eslinger was in a zone scheme in college and never so much as sniffed the field.

I'd say the redshirt year stance for drafted OL is pretty much standard, and then we see what we're molding. '

I'm sure we'd change it for a 1st round stud...but we really aren't likely to draft one of those, are we?

~G

[CoachChaz]

I guess I have some faith in Shanny's ability to pick up good linebackers in the 1st round... I'm not so sure about o-line and d-line.

That's what I meant...I should have been more specific.
________
BUY VAPORIZER (http://vaporizer.org/)

[lex]

Adding a leader AND changing the scheme. The guys we have (with the exception of Moss) just aren't "designed" for Bates system.

What is the "Bates system"? Is it two gap or one gap? Its kind of nebulous if you try to reconcile what he says with what he puts on the field. He says its not a two gap but when you look at the personnel used for it, it looks like two gap.

[G_Money]

What is the "Bates system"? Is it two gap or one gap? Its kind of nebulous if you try to reconcile what he says with what he puts on the field. He says its not a two gap but when you look at the personnel used for it, it looks like two gap.They asked Sam Adams to explain it and he couldn't. "Looks like two gap, is actually one gap, plays kinda like 1 and a half gap" was his general rambling.

I have no idea, other than it plays more like "half gap" since there are always at least two huge holes for guys to jaunt through at will. Whatever Bates believes it is in theory is certainly not borne out on the field of play.

~G

[CoachChaz]

What is the "Bates system"? Is it two gap or one gap? Its kind of nebulous if you try to reconcile what he says with what he puts on the field. He says its not a two gap but when you look at the personnel used for it, it looks like two gap.

I don't think you could ask a question that confused me more. Not what you're asking, but the answer you are seeking. In all honesty, I sometimes have no clue what Bates is putting out there. It's suppose to be one gap, but when there is a 10 yard hole in the middle of the field and the closest LB is 10 yards downfield...one has to wonder.
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VAPOR GENIE REVIEW (http://vaporizer.org/reviews/vapor-genie)

[lex]

Well, Foster got into the last game of the season as a rookie 1st rounder.

Our resident 3rd rounder Harris briefly saw the field because of injuries to starters, then promptly went back to the bench and is spending his year off the field rather than on it.

They adored Kuper last year - raved about him - but the kid couldn't crack a lineup either for a significant time until his 2nd year.

And Eslinger was in a zone scheme in college and never so much as sniffed the field.

I'd say the redshirt year stance for drafted OL is pretty much standard, and then we see what we're molding. '

I'm sure we'd change it for a 1st round stud...but we really aren't likely to draft one of those, are we?

~G

Foster, obviously was a bust and it had nothing to do with our system. He's been struggling to see the field in Detroit too. Not sure if you can blame that on the system with him.

Harris has been injured.

Eslinger and Kuper were both 2nd day picks.

If we would have drafted Robert Gallery and not the Raiders, I wouldnt be shocked if he would have played as a rookie since he played in a ZBS in college. Also, there are some guys who are just too physically imposing in terms of strength and mobility that they might start by the end of the season...we dont usually draft those guys though.

[CoachChaz]

Foster, obviously was a bust and it had nothing to do with our system. He's been struggling to see the field in Detroit too. Not sure if you can blame that on the system with him.

Harris has been injured.

Eslinger and Kuper were both 2nd day picks.

If we would have drafted Robert Gallery and not the Raiders, I wouldnt be shocked if he would have played as a rookie since he played in a ZBS in college. Also, there are some guys who are just too physically imposing in terms of strength and mobility that they might start by the end of the season...we dont usually draft those guys though.

Why do that when there are plenty of undersized guys out there to get eaten alive by 320 pound D-linemen.
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CHEVROLET BISCAYNE (http://www.chevy-wiki.com/wiki/Chevrolet_Biscayne)

[lex]

I don't think you could ask a question that confused me more. Not what you're asking, but the answer you are seeking. In all honesty, I sometimes have no clue what Bates is putting out there. It's suppose to be one gap, but when there is a 10 yard hole in the middle of the field and the closest LB is 10 yards downfield...one has to wonder.


The way he kind of described it was that its one gap initially but once you have a foothold on that gap, you are to collapse down left or right. Thats what I got when trying to make sense out of what he said. This was an article that was out August/September.

[G_Money]

I believe we COULD get a 1st day pick on the OL that would start this coming year.

Clady at LT, for instance, has the feet and the smarts to do it.

We're just not likely to go that route.

We're far more likely to take Lichtensteiger or Legursky at C sometime around the 5th. And honestly, if that happened, I wouldn't cry about it - I like both guys.

It just won't help us next season because I expect either man to be understudy to Nalen or Hamilton.

~G

[haroldthebarrel]

we are kinda lucky in that the year we have a really bad season the positions of need are plenty in the draft.
Except for maybe dt, but those are near impossible to project anyway there are so many good lbs, ots and even a great project like Ray Rice at running back have I seen projected into the fourth.
This is a very good draft overall so as teams pushes for their needs, we should have a lot of guys falling into our laps.

[lex]

I believe we COULD get a 1st day pick on the OL that would start this coming year.

Clady at LT, for instance, has the feet and the smarts to do it.

We're just not likely to go that route.

We're far more likely to take Lichtensteiger or Legursky at C sometime around the 5th. And honestly, if that happened, I wouldn't cry about it - I like both guys.

It just won't help us next season because I expect either man to be understudy to Nalen or Hamilton.

~G

This is what Im advocating:
Otah/Loadholt/Oher
Cousins
Zuttah

I would get Zuttah because he can play all positiond on the offensive line and is good at getting out on linebackers. Also the guy competes pretty much every play. He played right tackle last year but he would most likely move to guard or center but could possibly play tackle in spot duty.

[haroldthebarrel]

The way he kind of described it was that its one gap initially but once you have a foothold on that gap, you are to collapse down left or right. Thats what I got when trying to make sense out of what he said. This was an article that was out August/September.

you wouldnt have a link to that article?

[haroldthebarrel]

I forget the names but there is also a damn good guard project from a small school that has nearly 200 knockdowns. What ive read of him, he just sounds like another Larry Allen.
Think a new Larry Allen would cure a lot of our redzone short yardage problems;)

[CoachChaz]

I'll take Cousins, Rhinehart or Nicks in the 4th, Cody Wallace in the 5th and King Dunlap in the 6th and be happy.
________
MARIJUANA (http://www.youtube.com/dispensaries)

[lex]

you wouldnt have a link to that article?

Sorry, I looked. I think it was posted over at mania.


I forget the names but there is also a damn good guard project from a small school that has nearly 200 knockdowns. What ive read of him, he just sounds like another Larry Allen.
Think a new Larry Allen would cure a lot of our redzone short yardage problems;)

Are you talking about Heath Benedict of Newberry?

[underrated29]

A Travis Henry that doesn't smoke pot, stays healthy and uses a condom every once in awhile would be perfect for Denver's system. Unfortunately we have version 1.0

youre right, but his horndog mentality doesnt affect the way he play son the field. Neither does the lettuce, unless he still smokes it as it will slow him down. the only thing is dtaying healthy. I cant say that he will or wont but other than that he is almost perfect for on field.

Maybe we could make a sign at the endzone that has a naked chick on there saying I only give it up for touchdowns. See how hard he runs through guys then.

[CoachChaz]

Sorry, I looked. I think it was posted over at mania.



Are you talking about Heath Benedict of Newberry?

He'll be playing in the Senior Bowl
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ARIZONA MARIJUANA DISPENSARY (http://arizona.dispensaries.org/)

[lex]

1) Oher/Otah/Loadholt (T)- Just give me one of the three
2A.) Boone- (T) If he declares
2B.) Dre Moore (DT)
3A.) Goff/Bell (LB)
3B.) Donnie Avery (WR)-Fast return specialist
4A.) Eric Young (G)
4B.) Caulcrick/Schmitt (FB)-One or the other. One is the better block, but the other is more explosive and athletic. Both almost 260, which would be a change for us.
5A.) B Rudd (OLB)
5B.) A Bain (G)
7) D Brooks (P)

This was someone mock over at the mane. Somehow he envisioned us getting 2 firsts and 2 thirds and I think it involved trading Foxworth...not sure, but this was his proposed mock

Here was mine for his scenario:

1) Otah/Loadholt/Oher OT
2) Erin Henderson OLB
2) Dre Moore/Frank Okam DT
3) Oniel Cousins OT
3) Steltz/Barrett S
4) Jordy Nelson WR
4) Bryan Kehl OLB
5) Jeremy Zuttah G/C/T
5) Owen Schmitt/Carl Stewart FB
7) Brian Witherspoon CB/Ret

[haroldthebarrel]

Sorry, I looked. I think it was posted over at mania.



Are you talking about Heath Benedict of Newberry?

i am pretty sure it was kerry brown from App. State or some florida club, not Uf or FS of course.

[G_Money]

This was someone mock over at the mane. Somehow he envisioned us getting 2 firsts and 2 thirds and I think it involved trading Foxworth...not sure, but this was his proposed mock

Here was mine for his scenario:

1) Otah/Loadholt/Oher OT
2) Erin Henderson OLB
2) Dre Moore/Frank Okam DT
3) Oniel Cousins OT
3) Steltz/Barrett S
4) Jordy Nelson WR
4) Bryan Kehl OLB
5) Jeremy Zuttah G/C/T
5) Owen Schmitt/Carl Stewart FB
7) Brian Witherspoon CB/Ret


Um...I like your talent listed, but there's very little I like less than people who can't fit all the guys they want into their draft board - so they just expand the board. "I know we only have 2 first day picks but I want 5 guys there so...let me just pretend I can trade my crap for a buncha picks and have a good day in CandyLand eating sugar-cinnamon clouds and dancing through raspberry waterfalls..."

I know it was his idea and not yours (so please don't take this as me railing on you in any way) but if we get more 2nd and 3rd round picks there are a couple of reasons.

1) we bundle 2nd day picks to move up
2) we trade back in the 1st from say 9th to 18th and pick up another pick or two.

Some people might say 3) we trade Javon Walker but honestly he's only worth a 2nd day pick right now, and at his price and current production maybe not even that.

Ditto Travis Henry.

I guess we could trade Dre Bly for something, if we wanted to keep Foxy instead and get a pick in the process.

But unless we trade back and/or package multiple 2nd day picks and possibly 2009 ones to move up, I don't see the extra 2nd and 3rd rounders coming.

I expect Shanny to try both.

~G

[lex]

Um...I like your talent listed, but there's very little I like less than people who can't fit all the guys they want into their draft board - so they just expand the board. "I know we only have 2 first day picks but I want 5 guys there so...let me just pretend I can trade my crap for a buncha picks and have a good day in CandyLand eating sugar-cinnamon clouds and dancing through raspberry waterfalls..."

I know it was his idea and not yours (so please don't take this as me railing on you in any way) but if we get more 2nd and 3rd round picks there are a couple of reasons.

1) we bundle 2nd day picks to move up
2) we trade back in the 1st from say 9th to 18th and pick up another pick or two.

Some people might say 3) we trade Javon Walker but honestly he's only worth a 2nd day pick right now, and at his price and current production maybe not even that.

Ditto Travis Henry.

I guess we could trade Dre Bly for something, if we wanted to keep Foxy instead and get a pick in the process.

But unless we trade back and/or package multiple 2nd day picks and possibly 2009 ones to move up, I don't see the extra 2nd and 3rd rounders coming.

I expect Shanny to try both.

~G

I hear you, in fact, I asked him about that.


Originally Posted by lex
How are we going to get a 2nd? Also, Im not feeling a lot of the picks.

I said, I'd like to add a 2nd. Many are talking about trading Foxworth, but he's obviously not worth a 2nd round pick. We have lots of options including multiple player packages and future picks in order to acquire that 2nd. Sorry you don't feel the picks, they address all of our major needs with the lone exception being safety. This is all done in good fun anyways since quite a few of those players most likely will not declare because they will make more money waiting for next years draft.

Our O-Line is terrible and that is where this draft begins with a selection of two tackles who can anchor our lines for sometime. Coming out of HS both Boone and Oher were considered elite prospects and nothing has changed. Moore is a workout warrior and was very productive versus West Virginia. He has an excellent motor and was always in the backfield. Bell/Goff, LB is a major need for us and these two have both been very productive throughout their careers, I don't know much about Bell, but I think Goff is one of the best football players on the defensive side of the ball in the SEC. Avery is quick and would be a nice return option. Young will probably go higher, he is very large and athletic, may drop due to surgery in this his senior year. Caulcrick and Schmitt are a major need on this team. We know that Schmitt is well known for his blocking, this is something I don't know about Caulcrick, but he is a great athlete and if an adequate blocker he would be amazing. Same size as Schmitt, but has a much better 40 and is a devastating short yardage runner, reminds me of Jerome Bettis. Rudd has the genes and his brother is playing quite well for Tampa. Bain is more beef for the line and I added a punter since Ernster sucks.

[DenBronx]

who do you guys see getting traded from denver this offseason?

bly?
foxy?
gold?
other?

who could we trade yet get good value in return and NOT take a such a big cap hit or none at all? who would be worth dangling to a few teams? would mike bell get us a 7th? im just interested in who we might trade and the value we could get because i think we could use more draft picks.

[Skinny]

you wouldnt have a link to that article?I believe this is the article lex was talking about:http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_6703465

[lex]

I believe this is the article lex was talking about:http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_6703465
Indeed it is. Great work, Skin.

Here is an excerpt:


So, Sam Adams, about your responsibilities as one of the starting defensive tackles in the Broncos' new two-gap scheme up front ...

Politely, the sage veteran sacked the question.

"We don't play two-gap responsibility in this defense," Adams said the other day, standing outside the Broncos' dressing room after practice.

Well, then, why are so many in the media saying that in discussions about the scheme of new defensive coordinator Jim Bates?

"Because," Adams responded, with great civility, "y'all don't know what you're talking about."

And what does Bates think?

"We're playing a one-gap defense," Bates said. "Some people can think it's two-gap, but it isn't two-gap."

[Simple Jaded]

To my knowledge, the next time James Laurinaitis runs a 4.55, it'll be his first time......

[CoachChaz]

To my knowledge, the next time James Laurinaitis runs a 4.55, it'll be his first time......

Laurinitis has run as low as a 4.47. Trust me.
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MA CONCEPT CAR (http://www.ford-wiki.com/wiki/Ford_MA_concept_car)

[BeefStew25]

Chaz, maybe it is just me, but it seems those Big-10 backers get beat to hell in the pros. Is Laurinitis durable?

[CoachChaz]

Chaz, maybe it is just me, but it seems those Big-10 backers get beat to hell in the pros. Is Laurinitis durable?

I don't know. Maybe some examples would help me see your point. I know guys like Cato June, Ian Gold, Dhani Jones, Julian Petersen, Mike Vrabel, etc. have held up over time.
________
Buy Grinder (http://www.vaporshop.com/grinders)

[BeefStew25]

I don't know. Maybe some examples would help me see your point. I know guys like Cato June, Ian Gold, Dhani Jones, Julian Petersen, Mike Vrabel, etc. have held up over time.

I just can't get Katzenmoyer out of my head. It might just be my issue. If you can convince me on Laringitis, I will follow blindly.

[CoachChaz]

I just can't get Katzenmoyer out of my head. It might just be my issue. If you can convince me on Laringitis, I will follow blindly.

I can understand your fetish with Katz. He was cute. I'll do my best to help you see just how good Laurinitis is...but I can't guarantee any longevity.
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Silversurfer Reviews (http://vaporizer.org/reviews/silver-surfer)

[BeefStew25]

I can understand your fetish with Katz. He was cute. I'll do my best to help you see just how good Laurinitis is...but I can't guarantee any longevity.

Arrington also is in my head.

Man, I get jealous of the Niners having Patrick Willis. Any SEC stud backers? Joiner from UF: where is he projected?

[CoachChaz]

Arrington also is in my head.

Man, I get jealous of the Niners having Patrick Willis. Any SEC stud backers? Joiner from UF: where is he projected?

Johnathan Goff - Vandy, Quentin Groves - Auburn, Jerod Mayo - Tennessee. That's about it.

Joiner is an SS, but his stock is currently dropping. Right now he looks like a 5th round projection.
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Toyota motor manufacturing alabama history (http://www.toyota-wiki.com/wiki/Toyota_Motor_Manufacturing_Alabama)

[BeefStew25]

Johnathan Goff - Vandy, Quentin Groves - Auburn, Jerod Mayo - Tennessee. That's about it.

Joiner is an SS, but his stock is currently dropping. Right now he looks like a 5th round projection.

Mayo...that was it....

Well, Joiner would be a good late value pick if need be. I think character issues are going to hurt him, but I think he will be fine.

What about the end from South Florida?

[CoachChaz]

Mayo...that was it....

Well, Joiner would be a good late value pick if need be. I think character issues are going to hurt him, but I think he will be fine.

What about the end from South Florida?

Which one? I think they are all too young. the only guys I see getting drafted from USF are Jenkins, CB...McKenzie, OLB...Moffitt, MLB...and Williams, CB
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Plymouth Road Runner Specifications (http://www.dodge-wiki.com/wiki/Plymouth_Road_Runner)

[BeefStew25]

Which one? I think they are all too young. the only guys I see getting drafted from USF are Jenkins, CB...McKenzie, OLB...Moffitt, MLB...and Williams, CB

I watched Moffit play this year. Obviously had a big game against West Virginia. But I didn't really like him.

[CoachChaz]

I watched Moffit play this year. Obviously had a big game against West Virginia. But I didn't really like him.

A little slow for my liking. Jenkins is really the only one fo the group that I see being a difference maker.
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[BOSSHOGG30]

WR Sammie Stroughter will be one heck of pick up for some team... I really hope it's the Denver Broncos. He is an awesome punt and kick returner and a very good receiver as well.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Sammie video's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PW5MlukcSyE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mj72V5WzW0&feature=related

[DenBronx]

Sammie video's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PW5MlukcSyE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mj72V5WzW0&feature=related

wow, this kid has all the tools. i love his ability to change directions on a dime. what round do you think he will go?

[BOSSHOGG30]

(OLB Andy Studebaker)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzH8IKSNf70

[BOSSHOGG30]

wow, this kid has all the tools. i love his ability to change directions on a dime. what round do you think he will go?

As of right now probably the 5th round

[DenBronx]

As of right now probably the 5th round

how tall is this guy? he looks short. could he play wr in the nfl or would he be just a pure returner?

[BOSSHOGG30]

how tall is this guy? he looks short. could he play wr in the nfl or would he be just a pure returner?


He isn't a #1 guy, so don't expect him to be that if you draft him, but he is a very good return guy, very fast, and hard to bring down. He is 6 ft tall and about 190 pounds. He is a good receiver. Oregon St. prefers to run rather than pass and he still caught for over 1,000 yards his junior year.

http://www.osubeavers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=24795&SPID=1952&DB_OEM_ID=4700&ATCLID=129760&Q_SEASON=2007

2007: Stroughter (straw-ter) earned Third Team Associated Press All-American honors last season as an all-purpose player and enters the year as a candidate for the Biletnikoff Award, given to the nation’s premier receiver...one of the most dangerous players in the conference as a receiver and punt returner...10th at OSU for career receiving yards with 1,351 and has a legitimate chance to finish in the top three at the school for yards...needs 35 receptions to break into OSU’s career top-10; he has 79...already owns the school record for punt returns for touchdowns with three, one short of the Pac-10 record...Rivals.com rated him eighth in its preseason receiver rankings...co-team captain. 2006: Stroughter earned Pac-10 Second Team as a receiver and punt returner...Associated Press Third Team All-American as an all-purpose player...set up OSU’s game winning drive in the Sun Bowl with a 39-yard punt return...also scored in the Sun Bowl on a 13-yard reception from Matt Moore in the first quarter...Pac-10 Offensive Player of the Week for Oct. 16 after making seven catches for 223 yards and one touchdown (80 yds) against Washington...223 yards was the second-highest number in the conference and the fourth-highest ever at OSU...also named Special Teams Player of the Week for Oct. 30 after returning a punt 70 yards for a touchdown in the win over No. 3 USC...74 receptions tied for fifth in a single season at OSU and his 1,293 receiving yards ranked fourth for a single season...accounted for a school record 470 punt return yards and a school record three punt returns for touchdowns...had an OSU first back-to-back games (EWU, BSU) with punt returns for a touchdown...second in the Pac-10 and third in the nation for punt return yards per attempt at 15.7...led the Pac-10 and was 10th in the nation for receiving yards per game at 92.4...also had an 80-yard touchdown reception in the win over No. 24 Hawai’i...one of three finalists for the inaugural Randy Moss Return Man of the Year...Sports Illustrated rated him the 13th-best receiver in the NCAA...first team Pac-10 All-Academic selection. 2005: Sammie made five receptions for 58 yards as a backup, including a career-high three grabs for 21 yards at UCLA...returned at least one punt in every game and finished the year eighth in the Pac-10 with a 6.5 average...a long punt return of 29 yards against Washington State...also had nine kickoff returns, including a 29 effort at UCLA...second team Pac-10 Conference All-Academic selection. 2004: Sammie was one of six true-freshmen to play...appeared in all 12 games...became the team’s primary punt returner over the course of the season...had a 52-yard return early in the first quarter of the Insight Bowl against Notre Dame, setting up the Beavers at the Irish 27 – OSU scored the game’s first touchdown four plays later...finished ninth in the Pac-10 for punt return yards per attempt at 7.0...also returned eight kickoffs during the middle of the season with a career-long of 37 against California.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Coach what do you know or have on my sleeper dream pick?

Andy Studebaker

[DenBronx]

he is a little like cribbs when he breaks his tackles. he doesnt seem like an ashley lelie type player that will just fall down once the wind blows by him. the thing is we have marshall who is very hard to take down and if we picked up another wr like that it would be very hard for teams to tackle these guys. is he a YAC type of wr???

[BOSSHOGG30]

he is a little like cribbs when he breaks his tackles. he doesnt seem like an ashley lelie type player that will just fall down once the wind blows by him. the thing is we have marshall who is very hard to take down and if we picked up another wr like that it would be very hard for teams to tackle these guys. is he a YAC type of wr???

17.5 yards per catch

[CoachChaz]

Coach what do you know or have on my sleeper dream pick?

Andy Studebaker

Honestly never heard the name. I'll see what I can find on him from the company site.
________
TOYOTA SPORTIVO COUPE HISTORY (http://www.toyota-wiki.com/wiki/Toyota_Sportivo_Coupe)

[BOSSHOGG30]

Honestly never heard the name. I'll see what I can find on him from the company site.

I know he runs in the 4.4 to 4.5 range and that is excellent for a guy his size. He is also strong as hell and racked up a lot of sacks as a defensive end. But when I see him play I see him as an outside linebacker in the NFL.

[CoachChaz]

I know he runs in the 4.4 to 4.5 range and that is excellent for a guy his size. He is also strong as hell and racked up a lot of sacks as a defensive end. But when I see him play I see him as an outside linebacker in the NFL.

Yeah, everything I find looks pretty decent to me. Low 40 is 4.47...high 40 is 4.64. 6th round projection, but they have him flagged with a medical question...just doesn't say why.
________
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[BOSSHOGG30]

Yeah, everything I find looks pretty decent to me. Low 40 is 4.47...high 40 is 4.64. 6th round projection, but they have him flagged with a medical question...just doesn't say why.

He sprained his foot this season and missed a few games. I really like this guy and think he is a super sleeper. Check out his video on youtube....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzH8IKSNf70

[CoachChaz]

He sprained his foot this season and missed a few games. I really like this guy and think he is a super sleeper.

The numbers are definately nice. I'd like to see him in the Senior Bowl or against any kind of competition
________
Ford Everest (http://www.ford-wiki.com/wiki/Ford_Everest)

[CoachChaz]

The guy is a stud. I'd really like to see him against a 320 pounder though
________
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[dogfish]

I don't know. Maybe some examples would help me see your point. I know guys like Cato June, Ian Gold, Dhani Jones, Julian Petersen, Mike Vrabel, etc. have held up over time.

so have shaun phillips, larry foote, na'il diggs, rosevelt colvin and napoleon harris (he sucks and he plays for the squaws, but at least he's been durable :laugh: ). . . also, the best linebacker in broncos history came from ohio state. . . . :D


honestly though, the conference a guy comes from can't possibly have any impact on his potential durability-- that's superstition in it's purest form. . . :lol:

when people say that-- for example-- florida receivers always bust in the NFL, you can point to things like the system they run, the type of players they recruit, the coaching those guys are getting in school, etc etc. . . it's like tedford QBs. . . but saying that a guy is likely to be more prone to injuries because of the conference he played in is silly. . . anyone here want to avoid SEC players because moss got hurt. . . ?



:laugh:



i've watched lauranitis quite a bit, and he's going to make a very solid pro-- linebacker in the 1st isn't my preference, but i have no doubt he'd be a good addition to the team. . .

[Retired_Member_001]

I like your first mock draft DenBronx.

I like your pick of an offensive tackle in the first round ALOT. If we managed to trade up for Jake Long (who will be a top 5 pick in my opinion) then great. Jake Long would be a building block for the rest of the offensive line.

However I disagree with Frank Okam in the second round. I would prefer to get a proven DT in FA rather than draft a DT because defensive lineman usually take one or two years to develop, we need help instantly. I would prefer a linebacker in the second (Philip Wheeler maybe).

I like the fourth round pick as well.

[MHCBill]

That's the problem... we shouldn't be looking for INSTANT help.

We cannot rebuild both lines in one year in my opinion.

Sign free agent offensive lineman. (less risk of a bust)

Draft defensive lineman. (takes time to develop, but more value)

Free agent Dline = over paying for under production

[MHCBill]

Eight guys I wouldn't be upset with with our #1 pick...

Dorsey
Jake Long
McFadden
Chris Long
Phillips
Connor
"The Animal"
Ellis

Will we get one of these eight if we pick between 9-12???

[MOtorboat]

He sprained his foot this season and missed a few games. I really like this guy and think he is a super sleeper. Check out his video on youtube....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzH8IKSNf70

Boss if he's not ready to go for the combine and can't play in any Senior games, he's going to have a tough time getting drafted. He might end up being a undrafted FA...

[BOSSHOGG30]

We will be in that perfect spot where some teams will want to trade up to get someone... I hope Denver trades back gets another 1st day pick and we can still get what we need as well as another possible starter.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Boss if he's not ready to go for the combine and can't play in any Senior games, he's going to have a tough time getting drafted. He might end up being a undrafted FA...

That's even better.... I just hope Denver has him on their radar.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Any word on the realistic future of Ian in Denver? Any chance he is trade bait in the offseason/draft day?

I think he and Foxxy could get us another day 1 pick.