Strange chemistry bubbling in Denver

[TXBRONC]

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2009/10/15/strange-chemistry-bubbling-in-denver

Strange chemistry bubbling in Denver
Posted Oct. 15, 2009 @ 12:53 p.m.
By Tom Danyluk

Cedric Hardman was an end rusher, a 49er sacker, who took his jollies from busting up the quarterback. And he loved jawing about them. Joe Theismann was a whiner; and Dan Fouts — you could flatten his nose to his face and he'd still beat you; and the one he pitied most was Archie Manning, who spent every Sunday in the shark tank, fighting off the fins and the teeth and counting his stitches.

And as I watched the Denver Broncos play New England last Sunday I thought about something else Hardman said — about a so-so passer who helped the Baltimore Ravens win a championship years ago, pretty much by not screwing things up.

"The common denominator of all great teams, no matter what the sport," Hardman said, "is chemistry. A glaring example of that occurred when Brian Billick had the nerve to think his system was so great that he didn't need to invite his own quarterback, Trent Dilfer, back the year after winning the Super Bowl.

"I don't know what's wrong with these damn people, messing with Dilfer. The boy had won the last 15 or 18 games he'd started, and Billick wouldn't even invite him back the next season. They talked about what Dilfer couldn't do, but they didn't talk about what he could do — and that was win, dammit! That's the bottom line.

"Rule No. 1: Don't mess with chemistry!"

And in Denver a Dilfer-ish quarterback named Kyle Orton gunned down the Pats with a pair of late 90-plus-yard drives, and a shocking Broncos defense wiped Tom Brady off the second-half scoreboard, and when it was over you couldn't help but sense something special was brewing out there — chemistry.

You can feel it with these Broncos. The tumblers are clicking. They're somehow getting the tips and the breaks and the bounces, and they're stacking them up in the win column.

How did they get here, and so quickly? When you eyed their late-summer roster it was pure hodgepodge, a shish-kabob team … trade here, free agent there, rookies over here … then all the tension with the new head coach. 5-11, maybe 6-10 was the coming forecast.

Instead, a mysterious alchemy went to work. What gives?

"I guess we're lucky. The altitude — who knows?" said DRE Vonnie Holiday (three tackles and forced a Brady fumble), a Miami reject. "It was amazing going into [the Pats] game, listening to the prognosticators saying we're the underdogs once again in our house after beating Dallas last week. … We feel like we've got a good team here. We're doing some good things. The guys in the locker room believe; the coaches believe; guys believe in each other and are fighting."

Orton believes he finally has the right coaching to drill into his strengths — that's Josh McDaniels and a new offensive coordinator, Mike McCoy.

"This is a great offense I can thrive in," says Orton, "that is really suited well for me. You've got to think, you've got to handle the operation correctly and then you've got to be accurate.

"Mike is a good mix with Josh because Josh is certainly intense and sometimes can be in your face a little bit. … I like that, but Mike is a very calming factor. He's played and he knows the position."

Orton was a low-level bomber at Purdue (522 yds. vs Indiana … 385 at Notre Dame), winging it around in the frenzy of the Joe Tiller scheme. It stirred enough attention to earn him a mid-round draft slot.

But Orton's had to scale things back to survive in the pros. Nothing fancy. The arm strength — just OK. He won't force things over the middle, and he won't cut you up deep.

But he won't turn it over either (one interception this season), and that's been the glue in holding the Broncos together thus far. It's also called self-preservation.

"The way I evaluate a quarterback," says McDaniels, "is wins, production, taking care of the football, helping your team do what it needs to do."

Chemistry — you won't hear McDaniels throw the word around much. His mantra is preparation — and picking the right guests for the party.

Former Cowboys coach Jimmy Johnson, who won back-to-back titles in Dallas, echoes the mindset.

"Everybody talks about chemistry of a football team and experience and leadership," says Johnson. "Well, what wins in this league is talent. And what wins in this league is individuals that don't make mistakes."

So you grab some good players and you coach the hell out of them and sometimes it still won't come together, e.g., San Diego, Dallas, the Coughlin Giants … with Shockey and Strahan and Tiki. Flop clubs.

Maybe there really is a third leg to all of this, the relationship biz?

"Oh, I believe very much in team chemistry … or espirit de corps … or karma … whatever you want to call it," says Dick Vermeil, former head coach of the Eagles, Rams and Chiefs. "I tried to cultivate that when I was coaching. You want your players to look out for one another, to care for each other, not letting the other guy down. It mainly happens on teams that are enjoying success, but I've seen losing ones develop it as a way to get through adversity. Everyone pulling together. The collective goal.

"Another way to say it is 'psychological momentum.' One year with the Chiefs we won nine straight. We won games we had no business winning. It was incredible. We'd just find ways to do it. Our players just expected to win."

Vermeil says sometimes it only takes a shot of new blood to make a difference on a club.

"In Denver you've had coaching changes, new coordinators," says Vermeil. "So right away a new level of enthusiasm gets created. Expectations change, there's a different way of doing things. That can energize a team. Then you start looking for guys that fit your profile. You keep the ones that do, and whoever doesn't buy into it — you eliminate.

"Over the years we passed over many talented guys in the draft because someone I knew on the college staff would say, 'Coach, he won't fit. Skip him. He won't fit in your program.' "

So far, Orton fits the Denver formula, and as he filled out the postgame questionnaire, he whipped the word "great" around the room in describing his team's big day — great talent, great line, great kick, etc.

Well, it's not a great club — yet. Orton's a swell story, and the running game is trying, and that defense — second in the league — has a head start on everybody.

But it's been chemistry that's held it all in place, the juice that's lifted a dead-look team onto a fast track toward the playoffs. Players caring. The right fit.

Trent Dilfer would raise a glass to that.

[gobroncsnv]

I guess I agree in some ways, but Dilfer won by staying out of the way. I think Orton's game, especially this last week, plays a larger role in our victories thus far. (Then again, wasn't it our Mr Sharpe who caught a tipped ball from Dilfer to win a playoff game for the Crows in their SB year???) Whatever, I'll take the wins however they come.

But the chemistry angle this article takes is SPOT ON!

[Shazam!]

McDaniels sucks...

[T.K.O.]

McDaniels sucks...

is that why everyone is willing to work so hard for him?

[Shazam!]

I can't wait to see the reaction if the Broncos win on MNF. Oh my God.

[T.K.O.]

I can't wait to see the reaction if the Broncos win on MNF. Oh my God.

if?....dude dont miss the bus.
the broncos are the "team to beat " in the afc.......nfl!

[Day1BroncoFan]

I can't wait to see the reaction if the Broncos win on MNF. Oh my God.

Sports writers will be jumping out of windows and landing on the Broncos band wagon. :coffee:

[WARHORSE]

The Chigger boards are throbbing with desperation.

Theyre so afraid of losing this monday.

I told them the reason they were all so desperate was the fact that this would be a signaling of a changing of the guard.

Meaning......they had squandered a roster chock full of talent under the guidance of Norv "I dont know what Im doing on sundays" Turner. The team is reaching 'turnover' time. The roster has surpassed its peak.

Its not just a sounding off either. If LT doesnt run........then what hes done is run his course.

They dont know how to use him. Hes not the same back, but hes still got legs.

If they cut him, I would sign him in a heartbeat.

Hes still got explosion. I just think his last couple years of injury has gotten into his head. He doesnt run the same. He runs full bore into the line. That has never been his style. He always approached the line 3/4 speed, then gunned it when the hole developed. Hes not doing that, and his line sucks.

[frenchfan]

is that why everyone is willing to work so hard for him?As I've often said here, talent is one thing but not the whole story...

I didn't know too much about Orton (I can't watch many games here sadly) before he came here... All I knew was his record, and his "reputation".

Well... Let me tell you what I think now about our QB :
- He has a decent arm (sure not a canon ala Jay).
- He is smart and knows how to not make mistakes
- He can win games ! :eek: :D

To be honest, it's obvious that he is not as talented as some NFL QB, but what I really like about him is his attitude, his work ethic and his leadership... Yeah, I'd bet that almost everyone in the team likes him... He praises his teammates for their work and their attitude and don't take the glory for himself... He's smart enough to understand he wouldn't be great without the guys around him... Guess what... I think that motivates all the players of our team...
Kyle will also benefit of McD's tutoring and system... Good news too...

I think that next year he will be with us with a bigger contrat, but I'm pretty sure Broncos organization could deal about the $ because IMO both sides have a win in that way...
Broncos will have a QB who knows how to run McD's system and with leadership and chemistry
Orton will have something he wouldn't have with any other NFL teams...

Damn... I love sport psychology :D

[broncogirl7]

Monday night's game will be very huge for the fan-base and the fence-sitters.
I will admit that I was pretty pissed at McDaniels in the beginning for all the changes and the loss of Cutler. I am being swayed to see things from McDaniels eyes and the look of pure joy and love of the game we got from him when we beat the Patriots was incredible!

[broncofaninfla]

The Broncos seem to have a lot of things going for them right now. Momentum, motivation, chemistry, drive, talent, talent, scheme and luck. I add luck because for whatever reason, the ball seems to be bouncing our way so far this year....the football gods seem to like us this year, lets hope that continues. It's been an exciting ride so far and all signs point towards it getting even better as the season progresses. The biggie for me is that this team is improving with each week. Each week we seem to be getting better. That's HUGE. You see that in championship teams and we are starting to have that type of potential. Way too early to say that but I like the way things are going. Not just the 5-0 record but how we are getting better and gaining momentum with each week.

[TXBRONC]

The Broncos seem to have a lot of things going for them right now. Momentum, motivation, chemistry, drive, talent, talent, scheme and luck. I add luck because for whatever reason, the ball seems to be bouncing our way so far this year....the football gods seem to like us this year, lets hope that continues. It's been an exciting ride so far and all signs point towards it getting even better as the season progresses. The biggie for me is that this team is improving with each week. Each week we seem to be getting better. That's HUGE. You see that in championship teams and we are starting to have that type of potential. Way too early to say that but I like the way things are going. Not just the 5-0 record but how we are getting better and gaining momentum with each week.

I don't believe there is such a thing as luck, because things happen throughout a game that have to do with human error.

[broncofaninfla]

I don't believe there is such a thing as luck, because things happen throughout a game that have to do with human error.

I agree for the most part, I was mainly refferring to the tipped balls ending up in our receivers hands.

[Lonestar]

Had that tipped balled not been tipped most likely marshall would have caught it and stepped out of bounds just like the drew it up to happen.

Then they would have done the same thing a couple more times till they kick a FG. The end result is the same a denver win.

But it was tipped to Stokely because he was running the route he was supposed to. IIRC they had 5 wr running a GO route.

Pay me now or pay me later.

I like the TEAM Mc Kid has put on the field, he was mocked by many for his many moves this year and hated by some for one and almost another one.

He who laughs last laughs BEST.

The guy had a vision that he sold to Pat during his interview. We are seeing what he had in mind NOW. The scary thing is they are able to change each week with new toys being featured each week.

As the players get more comfortable in the scheme change we will continue to get better and better.

I wonder what we will morf to this week. :D

[OldschoolFreak]

WARNING-POTENTIAL MINEFIELD-CUTLER COMMENT COMING-PLEASE SKIP IF YOU CAN"T HANDLE IT.

I've been really annoyed lately by the national punditry's consensus position that yes, Orton is working out just fine but "just imagine how good the Broncos would be if they had Cutler". That's pure BS in my opinion and Vermeil and this article in general prove that. With Cutler here this would have been a completely different team, period. And we don't know if that would have been better or worse. My sense is it would actually have been worse--here's why.

Despite Cutler's big arm, I believe his confidence/arrogance are such that not only would this team not have been better, it would actually have been worse because his tendency to force the issue would have kept us from winning games. Forget the game manager moniker, what Orton did in the Pats game is play PERFECTLY to the script. Any variance from that and we lose. That means not taking chances and waiting for opportunities but pouncing when those opportunities are there. Which is exactly what he did. I think Cutler get's frazzled when we're down 10 early and throws a pick six or fails to throw it away, hangs too long in the pocket, gets sacked, and fumbles.

This is not a shot at Cutler--I loved him as a Broncos QB. It's more just a realization that the speculation of the Broncos being better with him this year is just that, speculation. He might very well have better physical abilities than Orton but that doesn't mean he's necessarily a better fit for this team.

I'm all for chemistry and winning and for whatever reason (and no, I'm not putting the blame exclusively on Cutler) we have not had that for some time--right now we have it. To say that we'd be EVEN better with a different QB is pure conjecture--we might very well be worse, despite the better arm talent.

[LTC Pain]

.......To be honest, it's obvious that he is not as talented as some NFL QB.......

Exactly how are you figuring this??? Whatever you're seeing as Orton's "obvious" lack of talent, I'm not seeing pal. Results-based performance is one way to assess talent and so far Kyle is spot-on. Coach McDaniels alluded to this very fact in a couple of press conferences referencing Kyle's play. You saying Orton has an "obvious" lack of talent in comparison to other NFL QBs smacks of Kyle's success being a by product of the system he's playing in or luck or the frickin rotation of the earth. Sorry, disagree with that BS as well.

[broncofaninfla]

There was also the Gaffney tipped ball catch a couple of weeks back as well.

[T.K.O.]

There was also the Gaffney tipped ball catch a couple of weeks back as well.

there have also been a few critical drops and penalties......point being if you look at ortons rating and int. # he has helped alot more than hurt !:salute:

[broncofaninfla]

there have also been a few critical drops and penalties......point being if you look at ortons rating and int. # he has helped alot more than hurt !:salute:

Good point. Things have been going our way so far this season. :beer:

[Lonestar]

Sometimes you make your own breaks something we have not done in quite some time.


Sent via Blackberry by altell.

[SOCALORADO.]

Exactly how are you figuring this??? Whatever you're seeing as Orton's "obvious" lack of talent, I'm not seeing pal. Results-based performance is one way to assess talent and so far Kyle is spot-on. Coach McDaniels alluded to this very fact in a couple of press conferences referencing Kyle's play. You saying Orton has an "obvious" lack of talent in comparison to other NFL QBs smacks of Kyle's success being a by product of the system he's playing in or luck or the frickin rotation of the earth. Sorry, disagree with that BS as well.

Orton is the real deal.
These last few games are perfect examples of the simple fact that if you take a solid player and put him in a situation that he is familiar with, and surround him with some talent, he will thrive everytime.
Orton played the spread offense at Purdue. He knew it and put up HUGE #s there.
Then he went to running what may have well equated to the wishbone in CHI. He had to constantly improvise and make on the fly adjustments, while being scrutinized for everything he did. Horrible situation, and one Cutler with his super natural physical abilities, will have to use every ounce of them to be successful. Until they get him some real recievers.
Orton reminds me of Jim Kelly.
Guy looks, and has the same style of play as him, and in the spread, he really plays like him. Fast and to the point, looking to make a huge play, but smart enough to know that if its not there, to check down, and make a completion.
A true system QB.
Also, a true leader. I watched him on HBO NFL show, and they had highlights of him after each drive against NE, he would go up to his guys and rally them. Total team guy. Just like Kelly. TEAM 1st. 110%,Do your job, kinda guy.
Just like Kelly.
I think by the end of the season, he will have around
27 TDs 7 INTs 3300 yards
What is he on pace for? Anyone know?

[TXBRONC]

Orton is the real deal.
These last few games are perfect examples of the simple fact that if you take a solid player and put him in a situation that he is familiar with, and surround him with some talent, he will thrive everytime.
Orton played the spread offense at Purdue. He knew it and put up HUGE #s there.
Then he went to running what may have well equated to the wishbone in CHI. He had to constantly improvise and make on the fly adjustments, while being scrutinized for everything he did. Horrible situation, and one Cutler with his super natural physical abilities, will have to use every ounce of them to be successful. Until they get him some real recievers.
Orton reminds me of Jim Kelly.
Guy looks, and has the same style of play as him, and in the spread, he really plays like him. Fast and to the point, looking to make a huge play, but smart enough to know that if its not there, to check down, and make a completion.
A true system QB.
Also, a true leader. I watched him on HBO NFL show, and they had highlights of him after each drive against NE, he would go up to his guys and rally them. Total team guy. Just like Kelly. TEAM 1st. 110%,Do your job, kinda guy.
Just like Kelly.
I think by the end of the season, he will have around
27 TDs 7 INTs 3300 yards
What is he on pace for? Anyone know?

Right now he is on pace for about 3900 passing, 22 touchdowns, and 3 interceptions.

[The Glue Factory]

Right now he is on pace for about 3900 passing, 22 touchdowns, and 3 interceptions.

And we were worried about giving up a 4,000 yd passer in Cutler? :rolleyes:

\sarcasm off

[SOCALORADO.]

Right now he is on pace for about 3900 passing, 22 touchdowns, and 3 interceptions.

And i had put 3500 yards at 1st, but then thought that might be too high!
We'll see.
Another aspect to Orton is the fact that everyone in CHI, i mean everyone, really liked Orton, and had his back, all through the locker room. All the guys there were bummed he was leaving. So that says something about this guy when it comes to the lockroom.
total team guy. I think if he can just continue to play the way he has been, we may have found ourselves Jim Kelly all over again.
The tough, SOB aspect of Kelly is still to be determined though, so we will wait and see.

[horsepig]

As I've often said here, talent is one thing but not the whole story...

I didn't know too much about Orton (I can't watch many games here sadly) before he came here... All I knew was his record, and his "reputation".

Well... Let me tell you what I think now about our QB :
- He has a decent arm (sure not a canon ala Jay).
- He is smart and knows how to not make mistakes
- He can win games ! :eek: :D

To be honest, it's obvious that he is not as talented as some NFL QB, but what I really like about him is his attitude, his work ethic and his leadership... Yeah, I'd bet that almost everyone in the team likes him... He praises his teammates for their work and their attitude and don't take the glory for himself... He's smart enough to understand he wouldn't be great without the guys around him... Guess what... I think that motivates all the players of our team...
Kyle will also benefit of McD's tutoring and system... Good news too...

I think that next year he will be with us with a bigger contrat, but I'm pretty sure Broncos organization could deal about the $ because IMO both sides have a win in that way...
Broncos will have a QB who knows how to run McD's system and with leadership and chemistry
Orton will have something he wouldn't have with any other NFL teams...

Damn... I love sport psychology :D

Frenchie, you just put into coherent words what I've always loved about the Broncos. I've watched this team for more years than I'd like to admit to. Even in the old days of the HC going into the south stands to fight fans for the ball after extra points this team has had a "way" of getting the fans really involved.

For Christ's sake, Dan Reeves won more games on his and Elway's "refusal to lose" attitude than was even remotely reasonable. As a fan I love going to a game knowing that our guys are gonna give it their all and can win any given game. That's what it is all about.

The Broncos have almost always had that comaraderie, that special esprit decorps, that makes you want to pull for them. We are very lucky as a fan base to have such an organization to follow.

[frenchfan]

Exactly how are you figuring this??? Whatever you're seeing as Orton's "obvious" lack of talent, I'm not seeing pal. Results-based performance is one way to assess talent and so far Kyle is spot-on. Coach McDaniels alluded to this very fact in a couple of press conferences referencing Kyle's play. You saying Orton has an "obvious" lack of talent in comparison to other NFL QBs smacks of Kyle's success being a by product of the system he's playing in or luck or the frickin rotation of the earth. Sorry, disagree with that BS as well.Well... First of all, where did I say Orton wasn't a good QB? (especially in McD's system)

Well, could you say Orton is as gifted as Elway, Marino, Cutler, Peyton? :confused:
My answer is no.
BTW, would you have picked Orton in the 1st round? That's where "talent" speaks... If so, that's your choice, but I don't think many people would agree with you.

Don't get me wrong... Every NFL QB is talented for sure (except may be Russel ;) :laugh: ). But some are really above in term of pure "talent"...
IMO, Kyle doens't belong to this category.

That doesn't mean Kyle can't be a great QB... Take Brady for example... Is he as gifted as the guys I've named before? My answer is no... And BTW, the fact he was a back-up in college an fell low in the draft proves that almost everyone were thinking like me... But he was allowed to play in a scheme that uses his qualities at his bests... He works hard and shows how good he is... How cool and smart he is... It seems Orton is a great deal for us... I was really impressed by his game against NE for sure.

Last, try to read many of my posts where I was talking about talent and work... To me, "talent" is good but is not the whole thing... You can be "less gifted" but be a better player... That comes with smartness, work ethic and leadership... And guess what I was praising about Kyle? His work ethics, his smartness and his leadership...
Also just read all the posts where I was defending Orton as good choice for us ;)

So please, don't confuse "talented" player with good player... Because there is BS too.
There are talented players who turned into busts (remember Ryan Leaf or Jeff George?... You can't say those guys didn't have a greater potential than Orton... Sorry... But Kyle is far better player than they were).

I really have no problem (since the deal, not only because we are 5-0 ;)) with Kyle as our QB. I like the guy and I really enjoy the way he is playing right now... I think we can win some SB with him for sure.

Peace.

Go Broncos :defense:

[Shazam!]

If Kyle Orton's brain was in Jay Cutler's or even Jake Plummer's body we'd have a Frankenstein monster of the best QB of alltime. The guy plays smart and safe, something we haven't been used to seeing.

[frenchfan]

Frenchie, you just put into coherent words what I've always loved about the Broncos. I've watched this team for more years than I'd like to admit to. Even in the old days of the HC going into the south stands to fight fans for the ball after extra points this team has had a "way" of getting the fans really involved.

For Christ's sake, Dan Reeves won more games on his and Elway's "refusal to lose" attitude than was even remotely reasonable. As a fan I love going to a game knowing that our guys are gonna give it their all and can win any given game. That's what it is all about.

The Broncos have almost always had that comaraderie, that special esprit decorps, that makes you want to pull for them. We are very lucky as a fan base to have such an organization to follow.Thanks for the compliment :beer:

Yeah, that's why football is a team sport... You don't win all by yourself (except John sometimes :D)... In fact, you need someone to make a block for you, to catch the ball and so on...
Elway, as great as he was, was a great TEAM player first IMO... You can see that when he gave his body to his team on a famous play of a certain SB ;) :D ...
What was the result? The team was inspirated and as a fan, I knew we had momentum then. Elway didn't have a great game (statistically) but made the key plays... He was smart enough to let Davis run because he knew that was the key...
To me, team spirit (or chemistry) is very important... A big part of the success of a team.

And yes, I fully agree with your last sentence... All I want about my Broncos is not winning every game... But to fight to death in every games... to give eveything you have on the field.
That's one thing I was mad about those last years... not the fact we didn't go to the playoffs ;)

Go Broncos :salute: :defense: