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WARHORSE
10-15-2009, 04:31 AM
This cat is the one analyst that actually looked at what DENVER did in the offseason. He called some people out, and I loved it.
It was written sept. 9


Are You Kidding Me? ESPN.com Denver Broncos Preview Out of Touch with Reality


It would appear as though most of ESPN's NFL analysts have forgotten that football is an 11-on-11 sport.

In what would be the biggest waste of seven minutes of my life, I endured the ESPN.com official Denver Broncos 2009 season preview.

This preview was not only irrational, it was downright pathetic, and not just because I disagree.

Scouts Inc.'s Jeremy Green had one of the more intriguing comments on the Broncos' 2009 prospects: "This is not a very good team, but in the AFC West that is enough for second place. The Broncos have concerns at quarterback, along the D-line, and in the secondary."

Concerns in the secondary? Does this guy have the first clue what he is talking about?

Broncos fans do not even need me to go into detail here to explain this comment, but for those who are not in the know, the Broncos have one of the more formidable secondaries in the entire NFL.

In fact, the preview goes on to say that the Broncos' biggest offseason addition was the signing of Andre' Goodman to pair with Champ Bailey.

Another comment I found particularly disturbing was one by Paul Kuharsky: "Offseason debacle leaves team in position to struggle. The Broncos undid a high-flying offense while not doing near enough to fix a bad defense."

Yes. Because the Broncos do not have Jay Cutler, they have "undid" a high-flying offense.

Also, not doing "near enough" to fix their bad defense? Might I offer a little wisdom here:

Three new starters on the defensive line
Three new starters at linebacker
Three new starters in the defensive backfield
First-round pick used on DE/OLB Robert Ayers
Three picks in first two rounds used on defense
Brought in Mike Nolan, a defensive guru
Switched defensive schemes
Just because the Broncos did not break the bank for every available defensive free agent or draft pick does not mean they did not do enough to fix their defense.

The comment that prompted this article was one that was written by James Walker.

"Any hope of the Broncos having a successful season was shipped to the Windy City."

It really is sad that this man was compensated to give this kind of an opinion.

It was also sad that second-year tackle Ryan Clady was given a grade of 79 out of 99 by Scouts Inc. I am not sure who justified this ranking, though it means nothing, but you have to give the guy credit where credit is due.

Clady allowed half a sack on 620 pass attempts and only had three penalties all of last season. He was the most dominant offensive lineman in the NFL, by far. There is really no disputing it.

I will give this preview some credit, though. They did state that Denver's "strengths" were along the offensive line, with their offensive weaponry, and in their defensive backfield.

But is this preview really justifiable? Let us take a look at Denver's 2009 roster compared to the 2008 team that went 8-8, and you tell me if this year's squad is better.



Offense

Quarterback

Kyle Orton vs. Jay Cutler

Advantage: Cutler

Even the most anti-Cutler Broncos fan will tell you that Cutler is the better player than Orton.

Despite the fact that many believe Orton is fully capable of being an excellent field general for the team, Jay Cutler is an elite talent. He has not proven it in terms of wins and losses, but his skill set is one of the best in the NFL.

Consensus: The Broncos clearly downgraded at the quarterback position, but not to the point where they will have to hand the ball off every play. Kyle Orton is a very capable, smart NFL quarterback.

ESPN 1, Sayre 0



Running Back

Knowshon Moreno, Correll Buckhalter, Peyton Hillis, LaMont Jordan vs. Selvin Young, Michael Pittman, Andre Hall, etc.

Advantage: Moreno, Buckhalter, Hillis, Jordan

The Broncos' 2008 group of running backs was makeshift. Not a single back that was on Denver's active roster at the start of last year (save for Hillis) is currently on an active 53-man roster.

Denver's new group of backs is versatile, tough, and just downright better than they have had since Clinton Portis roamed around the Mile High City.

Consensus: The Broncos undoubtedly upgraded at the running back position. Plain and simple.

ESPN 1, Sayre 1



Wide Receiver

Brandon Marshall, Eddie Royal, Brandon Stokley, Jabar Gaffney, Kenny McKinley, Brandon Lloyd vs. Brandon Marshall, Eddie Royal, Brandon Stokley, Darrell Jackson, Clifford Russell

Advantage: Marshall, Royal, Stokley, Gaffney, McKinley, Lloyd

Last year's group was not much different than the 2009 group, but the additions of McKinley, Lloyd, and Gaffney give the Broncos excellent depth at this position. The Broncos signed a few journeymen last year because of injuries to Stokley and Royal, and their lack of depth showed.

Consensus: Upgrade. No real debate there.

ESPN 1, Sayre 2



Tight End

Daniel Graham, Tony Scheffler, Richard Quinn vs. Daniel Graham, Tony Scheffler, Nate Jackson

Advantage: Graham, Scheffler, Quinn

The only difference here is the third tight end. Quinn is in some trouble right now, but on the field he is a superior prospect than Jackson, who was a converted wide receiver.

Consensus: Though only slightly, the Broncos upgraded at the tight end position this offseason.

ESPN 1, Sayre 3



Offensive Line

Ryan Clady, Ryan Harris, Ben Hamilton, Chris Kuper, Casey Wiegmann, Tyler Polumbus, Seth Olsen, Russ Hochstein, Brandon Gorin vs. Ryan Clady, Ryan Harris, Ben Hamilton, Chris Kuper, Casey Wiegmann, Kory Lichtensteiger, Tyler Polumbus

Advantage: 2009 Group

The Broncos' starting offensive line is exactly the same as last year, but the depth has been significantly upgraded. Russ Hochstein, Seth Olsen, and Brandon Gorin were brought in to back up Denver's offensive line and are far more capable than what the Broncos had in 2008.

Consensus: Along with experience from 2008 and upgrades in 2009, this unit has been upgraded overall.

ESPN 1, Sayre 4

WARHORSE
10-15-2009, 04:32 AM
Defense

Defensive Line

Kenny Peterson, Ryan McBean, Ronald Fields, Vonnie Holliday, Marcus Thomas, Chris Baker vs. Elvis Dumervil, Marcus Thomas, Ebenezer Ekuban, John Engleberger, Kenny Peterson, Jarvis Moss, Tim Crowder, DeWayne Robertson

Advantage: Peterson, McBean, Fields, Holliday, Thomas, Baker

While this is a tough position to compare to last year, the change of scheme and increase in overall girth gives the 2009 unit the advantage.

Last season, Denver defensive linemen averaged roughly 6'3", 275 lbs. This year, they average 6'4", 300 lbs. That alone will help the linebackers greatly.

Consensus: The Broncos' defensive front appears much more tough, formidable, and capable of stopping the run in the preseason, but I will be fair and wait to pass judgment until they get it done in the regular season. Wash.

ESPN 1, Sayre 4



Linebackers

D.J. Williams, Andra Davis, Elvis Dumervil, Mario Haggan, Wesley Woodyard, Spencer Larsen, Robert Ayers, Jarvis Moss, Darrell Reid vs. D.J. Williams, Boss Bailey, Jamie Winborn, Nate Webster, Wesley Woodyard, Spencer Larsen, Mario Haggan

Advantage: Williams, Davis, Dumervil, Haggan, Woodyard, Larsen, Ayers, Moss, Reid

Again, the Broncos simply did what was needed to upgrade these positions. The hybrid linebackers could struggle in coverage at first, but that is a problem that can be fixed through experience.

Consensus: Improvement.

ESPN 1, Sayre 5



Cornerbacks

Champ Bailey, Andre' Goodman, Alphonso Smith, Jack Williams vs. Champ Bailey, Dre' Bly, Karl Paymah, Jack Williams, Josh Bell

Advantage: Bailey, Goodman, Smith, Williams

The Broncos upgraded this position greatly this offseason by adding Goodman and Smith. The only thing they lack is pure depth. On the top end, they are among the best in the league.

Consensus: Upgrade.

ESPN 1, Sayre 6



Safeties

Brian Dawkins, Renaldo Hill, Josh Barrett, Darcel McBath, David Bruton vs. Marlon McCree, Marquand Manuel, Calvin Lowery, Vernon Fox, Josh Barrett

Advantage: Dawkins, Hill, Barrett, McBath, Bruton

The Broncos' 2008 unit was an absolute joke.

Consensus: Upgrade, by far.

ESPN 1, Sayre 7



Specialists

Matt Prater, Brett Kern, Lonie Paxton vs. Matt Prater, Brett Kern, Mike Leach

Advantage: Neither

This one is a wash. Both Paxton and Leach are great long snappers.

ESPN 1, Sayre 7



So, ESPN, it would appear to me that the Broncos have upgraded significantly from their team in 2008 despite losing Jay Cutler. The schemes and culture of this team have changed drastically, but this is the NFL, and these players are going to have to be able to pick things up quickly.

For a team that featured over a dozen rookie performers in 2008 starting at one point, this seasoned, more veteran team would appear to have a much better chance at eight wins than last year's squad did.

Northman
10-15-2009, 05:44 AM
Nice. The Walker comment had me laughing as well. Im glad this called those guys on it.

SoCalImport
10-15-2009, 05:52 AM
Unless the guy picked a number at random to rank Clady I can't imagine a scenario that results in a "79" ranking (I'm guessing out of a possible 100). What complete retard made that assessment for Scouts Inc. AND how the hell does it not get caught by someone before publishing?
That kind of ineptitude by "professionals" is incredible.


"Just because the Broncos did not break the bank for every available defensive free agent or draft pick does not mean they did not do enough to fix their defense."

My thoughts exactly going into ota's when folks were pissed about the defense.

frenchfan
10-15-2009, 06:36 AM
"Just because the Broncos did not break the bank for every available defensive free agent or draft pick does not mean they did not do enough to fix their defense."

My thoughts exactly going into ota's when folks were pissed about the defense.I agree... BTW, didn't we draft 2 defenders with 2 "1st" round (considering the trade for A.Smith)?

How can people come in and say we didn't do anything to fix our D? You can dislike the choices, but the truth is we spent 2 1st rounders for our D.
Then, we took Nolan and some players (I will insist on the word "players" instead of "names") who fitted McD and Nolan's plan...
Goodman for Bly... bad choice???? :confused:
Bringing Dawkins was a steal IMO... And even if you argue he's not in his prime, he's really better than whoever we had last year...
Same about Hill...

I was concerned about the DL though... We took "no names" players again, but it seems they were well evaluated after all...
To be honest, to me, it was risky and I didn't really understand the plan there... But I trusted the coaches... After all, I'm not coaching in the NFL ;)

Last, it's true football is a TEAM sport... SO you can downgrade at a position but upgrade the whole team... I still would like to see Cutler with a Broncos jersey, but I can't complain about Orton & co this year...
We have a D... We have a QB that finally can win some games and who knows how to manage a game... We have better ST.... And now we can win close games against good teams... Not bad if you ask me... :salute:

Go Broncos
:defense:

Shazam!
10-15-2009, 08:25 AM
More proof why I don't even bother with ESPN shit.

Though I'll give credit when it is due, on Mike and Mike they asked John Clayton if Denver was for real and the answer was a resounding yes.

Wait... wait, wait. So this would mean McDaniels really does know a thing or two about the NFL?

NightTrainLayne
10-15-2009, 09:46 AM
Everyone, (including a bunch of Bronco fanatics) was blinded by Cutler and his importance to the entire team. As this article pretty well establishes we upgraded at every other spot on the team, and now, as everyone can see Orton is a servicable and winning QB.

Cutler's great. I hope he continues to do well in Chicago. But we can win with what McD has put together here, and some of the pieces we picked up out of that trade are going to help us do that now, and in the future.

Brand
10-15-2009, 10:57 AM
Wait... wait, wait. So this would mean McDaniels really does know a thing or two about the NFL?


But...But.....He's younger than some of the players..........

:laugh:


Naysayers have to naysay, I guess. Seems Bowen knew what he was doing.......

honz
10-15-2009, 11:21 AM
I'm sorry, but Jay Cutler sux.

WARHORSE
10-15-2009, 03:11 PM
Jamie "I love to express the importance of my opinion on you" Dukes also was giving it to Rod Smith when they had Rod on as a guest.


Every time Rod said, "Jamie, they havent played a game yet", Dukes would say, "Yeah BUT.................you cant tell me........yada-yada-yada............yada-yada-yada........"


The NFL Network needs to be replaying those quotes from all the naysayers on there like DUKES.


Jeremy "I hate the BRONCOS" Green is another punk.

I heard Colin Cowherd the other day talk about Denver has the exact same defensive players as they did last year, and all they did was change coaches......................................anoth er ignorant statement from someone who didnt do his homework.


The fact is, the BRONCOS did address the defense in the offseason.....BIG TIME.



The BRONCOS have a big fat knuckle sandwich waiting for Monday Night, for all those vegas oddsmakers who have the CHIGGERS favored.

Just one more pundit to punch in the mouth.:salute:

BCJ
10-15-2009, 03:46 PM
Here is the video shown on the mane. You got to love Rod Smith for his brains. They need to replay these so the "experts" can try to back peddle. Seems Stinky already is by saying he meant the 2007 front 7, not the 2009. Yeah, right!
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=85591&highlight=jamie+dukes

gobroncsnv
10-15-2009, 06:34 PM
I heard Colin Cowherd the other day talk about Denver has the exact same defensive players as they did last year, and all they did was change coaches......................................anoth er ignorant statement from someone who didnt do his homework.
:

Cowherd's last name came from what his brains consist of... or....


He's just kinda stupid.

EMB6903
10-15-2009, 06:35 PM
im one of the "haters" that projected Denver would win no more then 6 games, but that isnt because of just Jay Cutler....Denver switched offensive, and defensive schemes, new rookie head coach, entire new coaching staff, and 50% of our roster from last year was gone.

Day1BroncoFan
10-15-2009, 06:53 PM
I think the exspurts keep chosing against us because they are waiting for the "I told you so" moment to come. They said we will be a losing team this season and are waiting for the first lose to come so they can say "I told you this would happen". In the mean time they keep picking us to lose because they can't really the I told you so if they pick us to wil and we lose. That would make them look stupid... Oh wait...

BCJ
10-16-2009, 12:55 AM
im one of the "haters" that projected Denver would win no more then 6 games, but that isnt because of just Jay Cutler....Denver switched offensive, and defensive schemes, new rookie head coach, entire new coaching staff, and 50% of our roster from last year was gone.

This is why I thought we would improve on last year. Nolan>Slowick for coaching. Dont even start on the defense scheme and players compared to last year but hey, if you want Wilborn and Josh Barrett, fine with me. I think they are over at the UFL.

WARHORSE
10-16-2009, 01:01 AM
The worse thing Shanahan did was just plug players in each off season on the defensive side.

In the secondary, we signed players that couldnt tackle, and it showed.

Winborn, Webster, the M & M safeties, Dre Bly, Boss Bailey.



But what Josh did, could never have been done under Shanahan because Bowlen would never have forked over 100 mil to overturn the defense.



I heart Josh McDaniels.:coffee:

shank
10-16-2009, 01:04 AM
totally.

SoCalImport
10-16-2009, 04:16 AM
But what Josh did, could never have been done under Shanahan because Bowlen would never have forked over 100 mil to overturn the defense.



What makes you so sure about that, War?
After last years late season collapse and Defensive horror show there was still no indication that Shanny was going to be out of a job.
It wasn't until (by all accounts that I've read) he stated that Slowik was going to remain the defensive coordinator that Mr.Bowlen decided to make the change.
That to me indicates that Pat would have backed any reasonable plan to fix things on the defensive side of the team. Considering the state of things on that side of the ball the only "reasonable" thing would've been to change everything. Get a real DC while Keeping the players that could still help, ala: Champ, Dumerville, DJ...
If Mike had presented a plan to get it done then I think Bowlen would've backed it and Shanny'd still be the HC.

That being said. I'm very happy that Shannahan is not running the team anymore. The franchise needed to move on.

SoCalImport
10-16-2009, 04:26 AM
im one of the "haters" that projected Denver would win no more then 6 games, but that isnt because of just Jay Cutler....Denver switched offensive, and defensive schemes, new rookie head coach, entire new coaching staff, and 50% of our roster from last year was gone.

Exactly right. I don't hold any grudge against those that looked at what changes had taken place in the offseason and didn't think much of the Broncos chances in 09. the odds were heavily staked against this team winning much this year, as they would've been for any team going through a complete overhaul.
I've been a "lets wait and see" fan, myself, but I can understand where the projections for wins v. losses were coming from.
What I hated was the doom and gloom, "Bowlen's flushed it all away" stance. It's pretty lame to make judgments on a rebuild like ours even if this season wasn't going well, as long as there are signs of improvement. It's call "the big picture"

btw. Cowherd and Dukes are both awful.

Elevation inc
10-16-2009, 05:43 AM
What makes you so sure about that, War?
After last years late season collapse and Defensive horror show there was still no indication that Shanny was going to be out of a job.
It wasn't until (by all accounts that I've read) he stated that Slowik was going to remain the defensive coordinator that Mr.Bowlen decided to make the change.
That to me indicates that Pat would have backed any reasonable plan to fix things on the defensive side of the team. Considering the state of things on that side of the ball the only "reasonable" thing would've been to change everything. Get a real DC while Keeping the players that could still help, ala: Champ, Dumerville, DJ...
If Mike had presented a plan to get it done then I think Bowlen would've backed it and Shanny'd still be the HC.

That being said. I'm very happy that Shannahan is not running the team anymore. The franchise needed to move on.


there was a article that came out a couple of days ago stating just this, some in the orginization felt the seeds for his dissmal were planted after our 31-10 blowout to the measely raiders at HOME!!!!! and after reading the article i went back and looked for the video of his final presser in the archives, and went he states emphatically no to slowik being dismissed you can hear the snickers throught the media room.

shannys pride was the final axe in ten years filled with so so decisions....

WARHORSE
10-17-2009, 09:48 AM
What makes you so sure about that, War?
After last years late season collapse and Defensive horror show there was still no indication that Shanny was going to be out of a job.
It wasn't until (by all accounts that I've read) he stated that Slowik was going to remain the defensive coordinator that Mr.Bowlen decided to make the change.
That to me indicates that Pat would have backed any reasonable plan to fix things on the defensive side of the team. Considering the state of things on that side of the ball the only "reasonable" thing would've been to change everything. Get a real DC while Keeping the players that could still help, ala: Champ, Dumerville, DJ...
If Mike had presented a plan to get it done then I think Bowlen would've backed it and Shanny'd still be the HC.

That being said. I'm very happy that Shannahan is not running the team anymore. The franchise needed to move on.

I think that because Shanahan had already had a number of off season aquisitions that plainly alluded to incompetence when choosing players on the defensive side of the ball.

Bowlen said the buck stopped with him, and hes a business man first.

No way, imo, that he gives Shanny an open wallet under those circumstances.

I believe McDaniels laid out defensively what was wrong with the Broncos to where Bowlen could see it plainly. Not only defensively, but offensively and concerning STs.

But MOSTLY, defensively.

I believe thats why the Goodmans were let go too.

McDaniels pointed out the fact that no one could tackle in our defense last year.

If no one remembers, we got raped by the Pestriots last year with Cassell at the helm.

Looking at the meticulous manner that Josh prepares our team, Im sure McDaniels illustrated the reasons why to Mr. Bowlen he was able to do that.

He attacked our weakness.............everything. But most of all, he just ran the ball hard.


Imo, no way Bowlen cracks the wallet to the tune of 100 mil? Why you say? Cause Im not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I ask myself......If I were in Bowlens shoes.........would I give Shanny that deck of cards?


The answer is no.


But thats just me...... :D