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View Full Version : is it time to show some love for our QB ?



T.K.O.
10-09-2009, 02:54 PM
i know there are alot of ways to look at the job orton has done so far.....some serious luck has been involved in his qb rating and win total.
but all in all if we factor in his having to learn a complex system,building chemistry with all new recievers and playing with a torn up knuckle on his throwing hand. i think he has done a heck of a good job !
this is not a "would we be better off with a different qb thread?"
this is just a place to discuss opinions on wether or not people are starting to think we might just have a pretty good qb after all.
i really like his approach to the game and he is a calm leader,he is still learning and earning the respect of his team.
i really think once his hand is healed and he has that "moment" when the light comes on as they say,you know when a player understands the system to the point where they can "just play the game" and not have to over think situations.
he will surprise people (if he has'nt already...depending on your expectations prior to the season)
he was regarded as a below average qb by most when "the deal" went down and he has already proven that to be less than accurate.
right now he is playing at a level in the top half of qb's in the league .
and again thats with a quarter of a season with the team....not too shabby i say.
and it would be highly unlikely that the whole offense doesnt improve as the season progresses.....so i say show some love for the "noodle arm","neck bearded" one !:salute:

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All NFL AFC NFC Category... Passing Rushing Receiving Kicking Field Goals Kick Returns Punting Sacks Scoring Touchdowns Tackles Interceptions Total Yards Season... 2009 2008 2007 2006 2005 2004 2003 2002 2001 2000 1999 1998 1997 1996 1995 1994 1993 1992 1991 1990 1989 1988 1987 1986 1985 1984 1983 1982 1981 1980 1979 1978 1977 1976 1975 1974 1973 1972 1971 1970 1969 1968 1967 1966 1965 1964 1963 1962 1961 1960 1959 1958 1957 1956 1955 1954 1953 1952 1951 1950 1949 1948 1947 1946 1945 1944 1943 1942 1941 1940 1939 1938 1937 1936 1935 1934 1933 1932 Season Type... Preseason Regular Season Postseason All Rookie 2nd year 3rd year 4th year 5th year 6th year 7th year 8th year 9th year 10th year 11th year 12th year 13th year 14th year 15th year 16th year 17th year 18th year 19th year 20th year 21st year 22nd year 23rd year 24th year 25th year 28th year 29th year 30th year 31st year 32nd year 38th year

Passing(Qualified* | All) Rk Player Team Pos Comp Att Pct Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD Int 1st 1st% Lng 20+ 40+ Sck Rate
1 Peyton Manning IND QB 97 137 70.8 34.2 1,336 9.8 334.0 9 3 61 44.5 80T 18 5 2 114.5
2 Philip Rivers SD QB 88 150 58.7 37.5 1,245 8.3 311.2 6 3 58 38.7 81T 16 4 10 90.6
3 Ben Roethlisberger PIT QB 104 142 73.2 35.5 1,193 8.4 298.2 5 4 59 41.5 51 14 2 10 98.1
4 Tom Brady NE QB 108 174 62.1 43.5 1,129 6.5 282.2 4 2 62 35.6 36T 9 0 4 83.7
5 Joe Flacco BAL QB 95 151 62.9 37.8 1,103 7.3 275.8 8 3 66 43.7 72T 12 1 5 94.3
6 Aaron Rodgers GB QB 77 127 60.6 31.8 1,098 8.6 274.5 6 1 47 37.0 62T 17 5 20 101.1
7 Matt Schaub HOU QB 80 129 62.0 32.2 1,047 8.1 261.8 8 3 46 35.7 72T 15 5 8 98.6
8 Eli Manning NYG QB 79 125 63.2 31.2 1,039 8.3 259.8 8 2 48 38.4 54T 18 3 2 104.1
9 Drew Brees NO QB 87 129 67.4 32.2 1,031 8.0 257.8 9 2 47 36.4 58T 13 1 4 108.4
10 Tony Romo DAL QB 76 131 58.0 32.8 990 7.6 247.5 4 4 40 30.5 80T 14 5 8 79.4
11 Jason Campbell WAS QB 81 124 65.3 31.0 963 7.8 240.8 5 5 53 42.7 59T 10 2 8 85.5
12 David Garrard JAC QB 82 138 59.4 34.5 941 6.8 235.2 5 1 42 30.4 34 10 0 7 89.1
13 Kerry Collins TEN QB 87 153 56.9 38.2 914 6.0 228.5 5 6 46 30.1 69T 7 3 5 68.9
14 Kyle Orton DEN QB 69 117 59.0 29.2 906 7.7 226.5 5 0 38 32.5 87T 13 3 6 97.7
15 Jay Cutler CHI QB 83 129 64.3 32.2 901 7.0 225.2 8 5 44 34.1 68 13 1 8 89.3
16 Matthew Stafford DET QB 79 139 56.8 34.8 894 6.4 223.5 3 6 41 29.5 64 16 2 10 65.5
17 Kurt Warner ARI QB 80 122 65.6 40.7 863 7.1 287.7 4 4 45 36.9 40 7 1 7 83.5
18 Carson Palmer CIN QB 79 137 57.7 34.2 845 6.2 211.2 6 5 45 32.8 44 10 1 9 75.2
19 Brett Favre MIN QB 85 125 68.0 31.2 837 6.7 209.2 8 1 44 35.2 43 9 1 9 104.6
20 Trent Edwards BUF QB 70 117 59.8 29.2 790 6.8 197.5 5 5 35 29.9 43T 11 1 16 76.5
21 Mark Sanchez NYJ QB 63 110 57.3 27.5 744 6.8 186.0 4 5 39 35.5 46 11 3 9 71.2
22 Kevin Kolb PHI QB 62 96 64.6 32.0 741 7.7 247.0 4 3 31 32.3 71T 8 3 3 88.9
23 Shaun Hill SF QB 66 106 62.3 26.5 700 6.6 175.0 5 1 32 30.2 50 7 1 13 93.3
24 Matt Ryan ATL QB 60 91 65.9 30.3 648 7.1 216.0 5 1 38 41.8 27 9 0 2 100.4
25 Seneca Wallace SEA QB 74 112 66.1 28.0 645 5.8 161.2 3 2 34 30.4 39T 6 0 8 82.6
26 Jake Delhomme CAR QB 54 91 59.3 30.3 601 6.6 200.3 2 7 31 34.1 32 8 0 7 54.3
27 Byron Leftwich TB QB 58 107 54.2 35.7 594 5.6 198.0 4 3 27 25.2 47 7 2 2 71.2
28 JaMarcus Russell OAK QB 43 108 39.8 27.0 506 4.7 126.5 1 4 25 23.1 57T 4 1 9 42.4
29 Matt Cassel KC QB 53 89 59.6 29.7 458 5.1 152.7 5 2 24 27.0 43 4 1 10 82.5
30 Chad Pennington MIA QB 51 74 68.9 24.7 413 5.6 137.7 1 2 27 36.5 21 3 0 6 76.0
31 Brady Quinn CLE QB 45 74 60.8 24.7 400 5.4 133.3 1 3 21 28.4 26T 3 0 10 62.9
32 Derek Anderson CLE QB 37 67 55.2 33.5 361 5.4 180.5 1 4 20 29.9 30 5 0 3 50.7
33 Marc Bulger STL QB 35 68 51.5 22.7 339 5.0 113.0 1 0 17 25.0 45 2 1 5 70.6

* To qualify for passer rating, the player must have thrown at least 14 passes/game.


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Grover
10-09-2009, 03:29 PM
Well, I wouldn't trade Kyle straight up for any of the quarterbacks listed at 25 or below on your list. How's that for some love?

T.K.O.
10-09-2009, 03:50 PM
Well, I wouldn't trade Kyle straight up for any of the quarterbacks listed at 25 or below on your list. How's that for some love?

its a start !;)

claymore
10-09-2009, 03:54 PM
its a start !;)

lol!

Slick
10-09-2009, 04:35 PM
I love that he is winning and taking care of the football. I'd really love to see him throw a few more strikes on Sundays and Mondays. He's got my support for now. I reserve the right to change my mind if his play worsens.

Day1BroncoFan
10-09-2009, 04:43 PM
I'm glad we're 4-0 but if Orton doesn't start hitting the open recievers when he has a chance we'll be paying for it sooner or later. Is it the glove? If it is the glove then maybe when he gets it off he'll be better. I think he is doing a fair job but he needs to be more accurate when he throws.

Grover
10-09-2009, 04:50 PM
Ok - here's my non-snide attempt at showing some love. :cool:


Kyle is certainly a member of this TEAM. He represents himself and the team well, cares about his teammates and is trying to do the right thing. I like him.

I'm sure he isn't satisfied with his level of play so far this season, and he's striving to get better. Let's hope the glove comes off and he starts hitting those receivers in stride a bit better than he has in the previous games. As the team is fond of saying right now, the sides are complementing one another, and Kyle IS doing his job. We're 4 - 0 and it's a total team effort with everyone playing hard.

Go Orton and Go Broncos!

topscribe
10-09-2009, 04:55 PM
I'm glad we're 4-0 but if Orton doesn't start hitting the open recievers when he has a chance we'll be paying for it sooner or later. Is it the glove? If it is the glove then maybe when he gets it off he'll be better. I think he is doing a fair job but he needs to be more accurate when he throws.

Yeah a 70% comp and 117.5 QB rating isn't worth a crap, is it?

You're right . . . must be the glove . . . :coffee:

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honz
10-09-2009, 04:58 PM
There were some pics of Orton throwing without the glove at practice today. Couple that with another week for the neckbeard to grow in and the Patriots better watch out!

Lancane
10-09-2009, 04:59 PM
Sorry...but I can not in all seriousness back Orton; I keep watching all the games that I taped up till now, and he really is a horrid quarterback, especially in the spread Denver uses.

If anyone else has film of the games Pre-Season through now, watch his mechanics; people whimpered about Cutler staring down receivers, Orton is exactly the same...if not worse, he overthrows and underthrows his receivers seven out of ten throws making the receivers adjust to his lack of ability and forces the completion more or less on the receiver. He throws into double coverage at least three out of every ten throws, something Cutler was far worse at, but Cutler could be precise and add heat to his throws and get it in there...several people thought the throw to Moreno against Dallas was a good touchdown similar to a Cutler throw, but watch the ball, it was a horrid pass but Moreno was smart enough to still grab for it because the defender was not expecting it cause of the field positioning, it should have been intercepted. Yes, Orton has a high quarterback ranking, but barely completing over 55% of his passes it would be far worse, what is making it so high is the lack of interceptions, again watch carefully and most would see that he should have about thirteen picks, he has thus been lucky so far.

For the spread to be highly successful, a quarterback needs good arm strength, not great, and tremendous accuracy, capable to throw almost every pass...more important then strength is the ability to put heat on such passes and to be able to hit the receiver in stride, whether it be a slant or even a post route. Orton's passes are slow, off the mark and what success he has had, has come from sheer dumb luck and receivers adjusting and making the plays for him; take away those plays we had in the passing game that were luck and we are more then likely 2-2 and because of the offense!

I'm cool with McDaniels as the Head Coach, and the defense and our defensive staff...but from an offensive standpoint, no matter the stats we are not even close to a championship team.

Lancane
10-09-2009, 05:01 PM
Yeah a 70% comp and 117.5 QB rating isn't worth a crap, is it?

You're right . . . must be the glove . . . :coffee:

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His completion percentage is 59.0, with a 97.7 QB rating...:confused:

honz
10-09-2009, 05:04 PM
LOL. Orton's arm is just as strong as Manning's or Brady's or Brees'. I'm telling you, arm strength is not a problem.

Day1BroncoFan
10-09-2009, 05:06 PM
Yeah a 70% comp and 117.5 QB rating isn't worth a crap, is it?

You're right . . . must be the glove . . . :coffee:

-----

I don't know where your getting your information at. I have him at 97.7 for the year and 71.1 for his career. I have his completion percent at 59.

I don't care what his percentage is when most of them are for less than a first down.

I'm talking about the passes that sail over the heads of the recievers and land on the grass in front of them. You know the ones I'm talking about... the ones that bring up 4th down. Please don't pretend you don't know what I'm talking about, it's been al over the highlights. He even admits it himself.

Nomad
10-09-2009, 05:09 PM
He'll have my love if he can beat the Chargers (without the assistance from refs) fair and square!!

Lancane
10-09-2009, 05:13 PM
LOL. Orton's arm is just as strong as Manning's or Brady's or Brees'. I'm telling you, arm strength is not a problem.

Don't know where you are getting your information from but coming out of college that was something a lot of pro scouts worried about with him was his questionable arm strength; well that and his slow release, his accuracy, especially beyond 15 yards, lack of vision in the pocket and his continual passes on the underneath route.

honz
10-09-2009, 05:14 PM
All QB's miss throws. Orton's likely get scrutinized a bit more because a lot of us have a preconceived notion that he sucks and is going to fail. Has he missed a few that he needs to be able to hit? Yes, but his struggles have been greatly over exaggerated by several members on here. Low and behold, most of them have been saying since training camp that he is a bad QB...preconceived notions.

Day1BroncoFan
10-09-2009, 05:19 PM
I don't have a preconception of Orton nor do I think he'll fail. I just know what I see on the field when he misses the reciever. A QB in the NFL should be able to hit the target with the football or...

I'm not down on Orton, I hope he tears it up. I just know what I see and am giving my opinion since that's what the OP asked for and I think he needs to work on his accuracy.

Timmy!
10-09-2009, 05:20 PM
Norton.

:heh:

Day1BroncoFan
10-09-2009, 05:21 PM
K.r.o

Lancane
10-09-2009, 05:26 PM
All QB's miss throws. Orton's likely get scrutinized a bit more because a lot of us have a preconceived notion that he sucks and is going to fail. Has he missed a few that he needs to be able to hit? Yes, but his struggles have been greatly over exaggerated by several members on here. Low and behold, most of them have been saying since training camp that he is a bad QB...preconceived notions.

My notions are not preconceived, I think yours are by the fact he wears a Bronco Jersey and there for like many fans you believe he must be good and that to be a good fan you need to support him. And sadly it does not work that way...I did not back up Travis Henry, Dre Bly and a plethura of other players because I can see the issues on all sides with each and every player. I'm a Bronco fan first and foremost...but I am also a fan of the game in whole, so I can be objective and see beyond what jersey a player wears.

honz
10-09-2009, 05:29 PM
My notions are not preconceived, I think yours are by the fact he wears a Bronco Jersey and there for like many fans you believe he must be good and that to be a good fan you need to support him. And sadly it does not work that way...I did not back up Travis Henry, Dre Bly and a plethura of other players because I can see the issues on all sides with each and every player. I'm a Bronco fan first and foremost...but I am also a fan of the game in whole, so I can be objective and see beyond what jersey a player wears.
Poor rebuttal to use my same argument against me. I have said that Orton is better than he got credit for before I ever imagined that he would be our QB someday. I thought he played extremely well for Chicago last year as his offense scored more points per game than our "explosive" offense did last year. Yes, I know our defense sucked. My only preconceived notions of Orton are from what I saw of him when he was playing for Chicago.

topscribe
10-09-2009, 05:31 PM
I don't know where your getting your information at. I have him at 97.7 for the year and 71.1 for his career. I have his completion percent at 59.

I don't care what his percentage is when most of them are for less than a first down.

I'm talking about the passes that sail over the heads of the recievers and land on the grass in front of them. You know the ones I'm talking about... the ones that bring up 4th down. Please don't pretend you don't know what I'm talking about, it's been al over the highlights. He even admits it himself.

I don't pretend anything. And I would appreciate it if you would discuss the
issues and leave the personal shit out of it.

Against Dallas, Orton had a 70% comp ratio (rounded up from 69.9 or
something like that) and a 117.5 rating. That is where I got the information
("at" is an unneeded preposition there).

So, if Orton can complete 70% of his throws with no interceptions, the ones
he misses can land in Alamogordo, New Mexico, far as I'm concerned . . .

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Slick
10-09-2009, 05:35 PM
My goodness there's some sandy 'ginas around here.

honz
10-09-2009, 05:36 PM
My goodness there's some sandy 'ginas around here.

I couldn't find my douche bag this morning.

Day1BroncoFan
10-09-2009, 05:40 PM
I don't pretend anything. And I would appreciate it if you would discuss the
issues and leave the personal shit out of it.

Against Dallas, Orton had a 70% comp ratio (rounded up from 69.9 or
something like that) and a 117.5 rating. That is where I got the information
("at" is an unneeded preposition there).

So, if Orton can complete 70% of his throws with no interceptions, the ones
he misses can land in Alamogordo, New Mexico, far as I'm concerned . . .

-----

Personal shit... :rolleyes:

Get it right or don't get it. His rating is 97.7 like I said. If you want to only count one game you should say so in your post.

Don't get on my ass about personal shit when you take it that way top.

How about some of those bad throws end up in some other teams defensive players hands, that make you happy.

Lancane
10-09-2009, 05:42 PM
Poor rebuttal to use my same argument against me. I have said that Orton is better than he got credit for before I ever imagined that he would be our QB someday. I thought he played extremely well for Chicago last year as his offense scored more points per game than our "explosive" offense did last year. Yes, I know our defense sucked. My only preconceived notions of Orton are from what I saw of him when he was playing for Chicago.

Unfortunately, I saw him quite a bit when I stayed at my house in Mount Pleasant, both when he played at Chicago and before when he was at Purdue...but I did not see every game, and I admit there were times when he was on and did quite well. But more or less he continually had the same issues as he has had while being here. Last year he was 9-6 with a 58.5 percent completion percentage, 18 touchdowns and 12 interceptions, and 2972 passing yards...not exactly anything to brag about. Beyond the W-L and Interception numbers, he has better weapons this season and is not doing much better here numbers wise.

topscribe
10-09-2009, 05:53 PM
Personal shit... :rolleyes:

Get it right or don't get it. His rating is 97.7 like I said. If you want to only count one game you should say so in your post.

Don't get on my ass about personal shit when you take it that way top.

How about some of those bad throws end up in some other teams defensive players hands, that make you happy.
If you were truly up on Orton, you would have recognized what I meant when
you saw 117.5, so I should not have had to mention the Dallas game.



BTW, 97.7 is a good QB rating . . .


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honz
10-09-2009, 05:55 PM
He also missed a handful of games last year. These are his projected stats if he keeps up his current pace: 59%, 3,624 yards, 7.7 avg, 20 TD's...and obviously he's gonna throw some interceptions sometime.

Just for kicks, here is a mystery QB's projected stats: 64.3%, 3,604 yards, 7.0 avg, 32 TD's, 20 INT's.

And another: 62.1%, 4,516 yards, 6.5 avg, 16 TD's, 8 INT's.












The two mystery QB's are Jay Cutler and Tom Brady. I don't see a huge difference in their performances so far.

EMB6903
10-09-2009, 06:02 PM
As much as Kyle Orton has surprised me with the production hes still missed on a ton of throws and regardless of the statistics hes not playing any better then average.

I posted even before the season that Kyle Orton is going to have good statistics not because hes some great quarterback but Mcdaniels offense makes those QB stats a little misleading.

I will say Im very impressed with Ortons 0 turnovers... Hes been very good in choosing the right time to take shots down field along with not forcing many throws.

Lancane
10-09-2009, 06:04 PM
He also missed a handful of games last year. These are his projected stats if he keeps up his current pace: 59%, 3,624 yards, 7.7 avg, 20 TD's...and obviously he's gonna throw some interceptions sometime.

Just for kicks, here is a mystery QB's projected stats: 64.3%, 3,604 yards, 7.0 avg, 32 TD's, 20 INT's.

And another: 62.1%, 4,516 yards, 6.5 avg, 16 TD's, 8 INT's.












The two mystery QB's are Jay Cutler and Tom Brady. I don't see a huge difference in their performances so far.

Stats are not the epitomy of everything as I have explained before and many times over the years, because it does not account for that 'It' factor...the ability to shoulder and carry a team to victory which both Brady and Cutler do have, same with Manning, Brees and a handful of others. Game managers can rarely do that successfully, and when you watch Orton the two times we needed such it had been by sheer luck and determination of the receivers that it was successful. I credit Orton with the ability to be a game manager, but he is not a very good fit for the 'Pro-Spread' offense; hell, only two quarterbacks have found any success with the scheme: Tom Brady and Kurt Warner...

I am not here to make you believe, or to change your opinion...believe what you want, but as for me...I can not justify backing Orton when he IMHO is less then impressive, has really been lucky so far and has not shown he really can be more then a game manager.

Northman
10-09-2009, 06:06 PM
My goodness there's some sandy 'ginas around here.

Now now Slick. This isnt good behavior towards your fellow members. Remember what Frau said. :coffee:

topscribe
10-09-2009, 06:10 PM
As much as Kyle Orton has surprised me with the production hes still missed on a ton of throws and regardless of the statistics hes not playing any better then average.

I posted even before the season that Kyle Orton is going to have good statistics not because hes some great quarterback but Mcdaniels offense makes those QB stats a little misleading.

I will say Im very impressed with Ortons 0 turnovers... Hes been very good in choosing the right time to take shots down field along with not forcing many throws.

I don't have anything against this post. Orton has missed some passes . . . but
then, so have 31 other starting QBs in the league.

And, despite a superlative second half last week, I suppose that if you took
Orton's stats and run them against the other 31, Orton would land somewhere
around "average"--after all, that is what "average" is: only stats can decide
"average."

Nonetheless, with the offensive weapons Orton has to work with, and that
defense, "average" is just fine with me . . .

-----

Slick
10-09-2009, 06:10 PM
Now now Slick. This isnt good behavior towards your fellow members. Remember what Frau said. :coffee:


Let me dumb it down for you...

My goodness there's some sandy 'ginas around here.....

Translation: Wow, some of y'all are getting irritated.

JFC.

Day1BroncoFan
10-09-2009, 06:11 PM
If you were truly up on Orton, you would have recognized what I meant when
you saw 117.5, so I should not have had to mention the Dallas game.



BTW, 97.7 is a good QB rating . . .


-----

If I'm up on Orton... You don't know what I think. You can't possibly know what I think by reading a post.

I don't even try to read minds on forums. If you want me to understand what you mean, you have to say it just like I say what I mean.

Nothing I said was personal. You quoted my post with and attitude and came off on me.

I'm not questiong his rating nor have I said anything about him being a good or bad QB.

I simply stated my opinion.

Once again, I think Orton needs to work in his accuracy.

Northman
10-09-2009, 06:12 PM
Let me dumb it down for you...

My goodness there's some sandy 'ginas around here.....

Translation: Wow, some of y'all are getting irritated.

JFC.


Just let it roll off good buddy. You'll get over it. :coffee:

EMB6903
10-09-2009, 06:12 PM
right now "average" is fine.. until the defense stops giving up 6 points a game (which it will)

honz
10-09-2009, 06:15 PM
Orton did lead us on 2 huge scoring drives against Dallas, and his throw to Marshall wasn't luck. He threw it up to the big guy and let him make a play. Like I said, I already liked Orton, but I thought Orton showed Bronco fans what he was made of by allowing himself to get plastered by Ratliff as he completed a perfect throw to Royal on the drive that eventually led to us tying the game.

Grover
10-09-2009, 06:16 PM
and on a more positive note, How about them throwback uniforms? :D



EMB6903 is absolutely correct. Orton's level of play is fine given the level of our defense. But there will be a time again when Orton will need to use his arm and his smarts to win a game, and I think he will come up big again like he did in the Dallas game.

Because in case we've forgotten, we came from behind to win in that game on a 51 yard completion and run by Marshall.

honz
10-09-2009, 06:17 PM
Let me dumb it down for you...

My goodness there's some sandy 'ginas around here.....

Translation: Wow, some of y'all are getting irritated.

JFC.
LOL. Sounds like you are the one getting irritated! ;)

topscribe
10-09-2009, 06:19 PM
If I'm up on Orton... You don't know what I think. You can't possibly know what I think by reading a post.

I don't even try to read minds on forums. If you want me to understand what you mean, you have to say it just like I say what I mean.

Nothing I said was personal. You quoted my post with and attitude and came off on me.

I'm not questiong his rating nor have I said anything about him being a good or bad QB.

I simply stated my opinion.

Once again, I think Orton needs to work in his accuracy.

Of course he does. I agree.

However, let's review the reason for my original response:


I'm glad we're 4-0 but if Orton doesn't start hitting the open recievers when he has a chance we'll be paying for it sooner or later. Is it the glove? If it is the glove then maybe when he gets it off he'll be better. I think he is doing a fair job but he needs to be more accurate when he throws.

I shouldn't have to explain this, but I was only pointing out that Orton
missed his receivers in the Dallas game only 30% of the time. It surely
looked to me as if he was hitting his open receivers, with the exception of a
couple in the first half . . . but they all miss occasionally, don't they?

So what's up with that?

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Slick
10-09-2009, 06:19 PM
yeah, time for some medicine.

Northman
10-09-2009, 06:20 PM
EMB6903 is absolutely correct. Orton's level of play is fine given the level of our defense. But there will be a time again when Orton will need to use his arm and his smarts to win a game, and I think he will come up big again like he did in the Dallas game.

Because in case we've forgotten, we came from behind to win in that game on a 51 yard completion and run by Marshall.

Denver will lose this year. Anyone with a brain knows that we arent quite SB calibur yet. So the fact that we are 4-0 right now is exciting and very promising for the future. I know that doesnt sit well with the yahoo's who only want to wait for the ball to drop so they can whine some more but overall, im pretty pleased with the results. Getting a franchise Qb can be had down the road at a later date. Right now, its about the team concept and we have that and thats all that should matter right now.

Lancane
10-09-2009, 06:20 PM
right now "average" is fine.. until the defense stops giving up 6 points a game (which it will)

Exactly...and if you account for that Denver will face six of the top rated offenses in the coming weeks?...Defense can only take you so far, but if it comes to a shootout?

New England, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Indianapolis, Pittsburgh and New York are all top ten offenses, almost everyone led by a franchise quarterback who can do damage when needed. Our defense will need to be hot, and our offense will need to be highly more effective then we are now. All six of those teams are some of the best in scoring offense...

honz
10-09-2009, 06:22 PM
Denver will lose this year. Anyone with a brain knows that we arent quite SB calibur yet. So the fact that we are 4-0 right now is exciting and very promising for the future. I know that doesnt sit well with the yahoo's who only want to wait for the ball to drop so they can whine some more but overall, im pretty pleased with the results. Getting a franchise Qb can be had down the road at a later date. Right now, its about the team concept and we have that and thats all that should matter right now.

Are you saying I don't have a brain?

Post reported for personal attack.

TXBRONC
10-09-2009, 06:24 PM
yeah, time for some medicine.

I took mine this morning and I can't take anymore until tomorrow sorry. :D

Lancane
10-09-2009, 06:25 PM
Orton did lead us on 2 huge scoring drives against Dallas, and his throw to Marshall wasn't luck. He threw it up to the big guy and let him make a play. Like I said, I already liked Orton, but I thought Orton showed Bronco fans what he was made of by allowing himself to get plastered by Ratliff as he completed a perfect throw to Royal on the drive that eventually led to us tying the game.

His completion to Moreno was pure luck, as was the pass to Marshall...I have watched both nearly a hundred times and both could of been picked off, they were ill advised throws...period. Luckily, Marshall has the ability to go up and had a longer reach then the defender and as for the Moreno catch, that was all Moreno and his quick hands. Next you will say that the Stokley miracle was designed that way!

Nomad
10-09-2009, 06:26 PM
and on a more positive note, How about them throwback uniforms? :D


EMB6903 is absolutely correct. Orton's level of play is fine given the level of our defense. But there will be a time again when Orton will need to use his arm and his smarts to win a game, and I think he will come up big again like he did in the Dallas game.

Because in case we've forgotten, we came from behind to win in that game on a 51 yard completion and run by Marshall.

Here's a cool video i found at BM!!

http://www.denverbroncos.com/index.php

TXBRONC
10-09-2009, 06:27 PM
Denver will lose this year. Anyone with a brain knows that we arent quite SB calibur yet. So the fact that we are 4-0 right now is exciting and very promising for the future. I know that doesnt sit well with the yahoo's who only want to wait for the ball to drop so they can whine some more but overall, im pretty pleased with the results. Getting a franchise Qb can be had down the road at a later date. Right now, its about the team concept and we have that and thats all that should matter right now.

I agree at this point I don't think Denver is Super Bowl caliber team but they are starting to look like could possibly make the playoffs.

Northman
10-09-2009, 06:27 PM
His completion to Moreno was pure luck, as was the pass to Marshall...I have watched both nearly a hundred times and both could of been picked off, they were ill advised throws...period. Luckily, Marshall has the ability to go up and had a longer reach then the defender and as for the Moreno catch, that was all Moreno and his quick hands. Next you will say that the Stokley miracle was designed that way!


Great players make great plays. Supposedly Marshall is a top tier receiver and Moreno is a first round draft pick. I expect the stars to make those plays. I guess you dont like luck?

Northman
10-09-2009, 06:28 PM
I agree at this point I don't think Denver is Super Bowl caliber team but they are starting to look like could possibly make the playoffs.

Which to me would be a bonus considering all the drama this offseason. Time will tell.

topscribe
10-09-2009, 06:29 PM
Exactly...and if you account for that Denver will face six of the top rated offenses in the coming weeks?...Defense can only take you so far, but if it comes to a shootout?

New England, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Indianapolis, Pittsburgh and New York are all top ten offenses, almost everyone led by a franchise quarterback who can do damage when needed. Our defense will need to be hot, and our offense will need to be highly more effective then we are now. All six of those teams are some of the best in scoring offense...

I don't see Denver winning all of those games, Cane. But I don't really expect any "shootouts."

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Lancane
10-09-2009, 06:31 PM
Great players make great plays. Supposedly Marshall is a top tier receiver and Moreno is a first round draft pick. I expect the stars to make those plays. I guess you dont like luck?

No, I am fine with it...but don't credit Orton with 'greatness' when it was more or less due to the player that makes the play!

honz
10-09-2009, 06:33 PM
His completion to Moreno was pure luck, as was the pass to Marshall...I have watched both nearly a hundred times and both could of been picked off, they were ill advised throws...period. Luckily, Marshall has the ability to go up and had a longer reach then the defender and as for the Moreno catch, that was all Moreno and his quick hands. Next you will say that the Stokley miracle was designed that way!

The Moreno TD was probably a little lucky that it didn't get picked off, but I don't think the Marshall TD was luck. QB's have playmakers for a reason. No QB is going to win with you and me running around trying to make plays.

Northman
10-09-2009, 06:33 PM
No, I am fine with it...but don't credit Orton with 'greatness' when it was more or less due to the player that makes the play!

I dont think anyone has really credited him with greatness as they have taking care of the ball and at least "attempting" to make the plays necessary to win. He "allows" his playmakers to make the plays which he should get credit for.

topscribe
10-09-2009, 06:36 PM
His completion to Moreno was pure luck, as was the pass to Marshall...I have watched both nearly a hundred times and both could of been picked off, they were ill advised throws...period. Luckily, Marshall has the ability to go up and had a longer reach then the defender and as for the Moreno catch, that was all Moreno and his quick hands. Next you will say that the Stokley miracle was designed that way!

Cane, on the pass to Moreno, had it been six inches up, down, or to the right or
left of where it was, it would have been incomplete or indeed intercepted. I'm
not debating the decision to make the throw, but the throw itself was brilliant.
I saw the replay multiple times, too, and Spencer, whom Orton knew was a
DE--and knew very well, having played with him in college--had no time to
get his hands up to gather in the pass. The pass was thrown with pinpoint
accuracy and great velocity.

The pass to Marshall was intentional: Orton said so in his presser. He threw it
up, knowing that Marshall would win the jump ball over the 5-10 Newman. And
he threw it perfectly. Again, had the pass been any longer, it would have sailed
out of bounds . . . any shorter, and Newman would have intercepted it. The
throw was near perfect.



The Moreno TD was probably a little lucky that it didn't get picked off, but I don't think the Marshall TD was luck. QB's have playmakers for a reason. No QB is going to win with you and me running around trying to make plays.

See above.

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Day1BroncoFan
10-09-2009, 06:36 PM
Of course he does. I agree.

However, let's review the reason for my original response:



I shouldn't have to explain this, but I was only pointing out that Orton
missed his receivers in the Dallas game only 30% of the time. It surely
looked to me as if he was hitting his open receivers, with the exception of a
couple in the first half . . . but they all miss occasionally, don't they?

So what's up with that?

-----

What's up with that is we could have been ahead in the first half had he been accurate with his passes notwithstanding the penalties not being his fault.

Like I said though, I'm looking at his performance since he's been a Bronco and he misses recievers just like he did in the first half. If we get behind by more than 10 points can he bring us back?

I don't see anything wrong with asking him to hit what would be and easy pass down the middle to Royal and one in the end zone for 6.

TOP is another key issue. Our defense was on the field for 6 minutes longer than the opposing defense. Over the course of a game/season, that wears them down. Our 3 down % in that game was 20, some of that is because of bad throws.


I'm just worried if he keeps throwing like this int's will be coming. You base your point on one game, I'm looking at the season.

Lancane
10-09-2009, 06:37 PM
I don't see Denver winning all of those games, Cane. But I don't really expect any "shootouts."

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Nor do I Top, because if we are put in that situation I believe it will be a loss for this team. The defense is good, but no defense can stifle every great offense, no one has ever done that...and with that said, there is a first for everything...lol.

I think we have good chance to beat New England and Philadelphia, but New York, Pittsburgh, Baltimore and Indianapolis are going to be much harder IMHO to beat, particularly when we play them and what will be on the line at that point in the season, or how well they relatively play during those months.

Lancane
10-09-2009, 06:41 PM
Cane, on the pass to Moreno, had it been six inches up, down, or to the right or
left of where it was, it would have been incomplete or indeed intercepted. I'm
not debating the decision to make the throw, but the throw itself was brilliant.
I saw the replay multiple times, too, and Spencer, whom Orton knew was a
DE--and knew very well, having played with him in college--had no time to
get his hands up to gather in the pass. The pass was thrown with pinpoint
accuracy and great velocity.

The pass to Marshall was intentional: Orton said so in his presser. He threw it
up, knowing that Marshall would win the jump ball over the 5-10 Newman. And
he threw it perfectly. Again, had the pass been any longer, it would have sailed
out of bounds . . . any shorter, and Newman would have intercepted it. The
throw was near perfect.

-----

Believe that if you want Top...but any starting quarterback is going to tell you it was intentional if he can. I don't see a starting quarterback with luck say, "Well I meant to do this, but this happened?"...lol.

Orton's accuracy is below average among winning starting quarterbacks and he just happened to find a heater when needed and be completely accurate?...sorry Top, I don't buy it one bit.

Northman
10-09-2009, 06:43 PM
What's up with that is we could have been ahead in the first half had he been accurate with his passes notwithstanding the penalties not being his fault.




Funny. I think Cowboy fans would be saying the same considering they were a "contender" as opposed to us.

topscribe
10-09-2009, 06:47 PM
What's up with that is we could have been ahead in the first half had he been accurate with his passes notwithstanding the penalties not being his fault.

Like I said though, I'm looking at his performance since he's been a Bronco and he misses recievers just like he did in the first half. If we get behind by more than 10 points can he bring us back?

I don't see anything wrong with asking him to hit what would be and easy pass down the middle to Royal and one in the end zone for 6.

TOP is another key issue. Our defense was on the field for 6 minutes longer than the opposing defense. Over the course of a game/season, that wears them down. Our 3 down % in that game was 20, some of that is because of bad throws.


I'm just worried if he keeps throwing like this int's will be coming. You base your point on one game, I'm looking at the season.

I see your user name is "Day1"Broncofan. So I assume, then, you remember
some of John Elway's first halves? As I have explained elsewhere, I remember
wondering whether I was ever going to see a complete game out of him.

All QBs have bad spells in games. The key is, Orton got it together in the
second half and completed 8 out of 10 from there.

Orton has done fairly well, and I expect him to get better. I predicted he
would break out after the bye this year because he and the rest of the
offense had to become orientated with each other. If so, and if the defense
keeps it up, we have a playoff team in the making . . .

-----

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Lonestar
10-09-2009, 06:48 PM
I love that he is winning and taking care of the football. I'd really love to see him throw a few more strikes on Sundays and Mondays. He's got my support for now. I reserve the right to change my mind if his play worsens.


Hmm you have never been a fair weather fan before, this is not like you..

we all hope he improves as EVERYONE gets more comfortable with the scheme and each other.. no, make that Expect them all to improve..

I susepct that is what your trying to say..

Bronco Warrior
10-09-2009, 06:52 PM
Wwwhen Orton can complete a tough pass over 30 yards or scramble for a long first down or go air-borne for 7 I'll love up on Orton like a 1,000 dollar Call girl! lol!

Lonestar
10-09-2009, 06:52 PM
Sorry...but I can not in all seriousness back Orton; I keep watching all the games that I taped up till now, and he really is a horrid quarterback, especially in the spread Denver uses.

If anyone else has film of the games Pre-Season through now, watch his mechanics; people whimpered about Cutler staring down receivers, Orton is exactly the same...if not worse, he overthrows and underthrows his receivers seven out of ten throws making the receivers adjust to his lack of ability and forces the completion more or less on the receiver. He throws into double coverage at least three out of every ten throws, something Cutler was far worse at, but Cutler could be precise and add heat to his throws and get it in there...several people thought the throw to Moreno against Dallas was a good touchdown similar to a Cutler throw, but watch the ball, it was a horrid pass but Moreno was smart enough to still grab for it because the defender was not expecting it cause of the field positioning, it should have been intercepted. Yes, Orton has a high quarterback ranking, but barely completing over 55% of his passes it would be far worse, what is making it so high is the lack of interceptions, again watch carefully and most would see that he should have about thirteen picks, he has thus been lucky so far.

For the spread to be highly successful, a quarterback needs good arm strength, not great, and tremendous accuracy, capable to throw almost every pass...more important then strength is the ability to put heat on such passes and to be able to hit the receiver in stride, whether it be a slant or even a post route. Orton's passes are slow, off the mark and what success he has had, has come from sheer dumb luck and receivers adjusting and making the plays for him; take away those plays we had in the passing game that were luck and we are more then likely 2-2 and because of the offense!

I'm cool with McDaniels as the Head Coach, and the defense and our defensive staff...but from an offensive standpoint, no matter the stats we are not even close to a championship team.


then don't..

I stopped reading after that remark.. perhaps there was something worth reading in it but it was lost after a bronco fan saying he/she can not back their QB..

topscribe
10-09-2009, 06:53 PM
Believe that if you want Top...but any starting quarterback is going to tell you it was intentional if he can. I don't see a starting quarterback with luck say, "Well I meant to do this, but this happened?"...lol.

Orton's accuracy is below average among winning starting quarterbacks and he just happened to find a heater when needed and be completely accurate?...sorry Top, I don't buy it one bit.

Okay. Then tell me. On the Moreno pass, what would have happened if:

1. The pass was 6 inches to the left
2. The pass was 6 inches to the right
3. The pass was 6 inches up
4. The pass was 6 inches down
5. The pass was not thrown as hard as it was

On the Marshall pass, you tell me what would have happened if:

1. The pass was 6 inches longer
2. The pass was 6 inches shorter

Let's add the pass to Royal. Now we have three accurate heaters to consider.
And that one was with a pass rusher in his face.

Now, go listen to Orton's presser and see whether he was a liar. He was
completely truthful about the Moreno pass. Why wouldn't he be truthful about
the Marshall pass? The trouble is, from your remark, you obviously don't know
a lot about Orton . . .

-----

topscribe
10-09-2009, 06:54 PM
Wwwhen Orton can complete a tough pass over 30 yards or scramble for a long first down or go air-borne for 7 I'll love up on Orton like a 1,000 dollar Call girl! lol!

The pass to Marshall went about 34 yards in the air . . .

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dogfish
10-09-2009, 06:54 PM
time to show him some love? IMO, not really. . .

he's played well enough for us to win games, which he deserves some credit for, but with the performance of our defense and running game most starters at this level would be winning games. . . obviously you have to like the lack of turnovers, but other than that i haven't seen anything to get particularly excited about. . . when he gets going he can make some decent plays, but when he's cold he can look really bad-- like the first part of the dallas game, when he was tossing ducks. . . you can't complain too much as long as the W's are piling up, but if we start losing you can bet his play will be coming under very close scrutiny. . .

ultimately, he he has a slow release, very inconsistent accuracy, very little mobility and an arm that's nothing special. . . this is quite obviously pure speculation on my part and i'm not trying to pass it off as anything else, but after seeing mcdaniels screaming at him on the sidelines multiple times, i kinda have the feeling that josh hasn't exactly been thrilled with his performance to this point. . . i'm wondering if he's rethinking his decision that orton was the guy he wanted running his offense. . . . we'll see how it goes from here. . . maybe orton will make some strides as his finger heals completely, and as he has more time to completely assimilate the reportedly-complex offense and establish better timing with his receivers. . .

but if he continues playing at the level he has been, i suspect we'll be looking for a new quarterback in the offseason absent a deep playoff run-- and maybe even if we do make one. . . after all, there are plenty of guys who can manage to win games when you're giving up an average of six points and running for 150 yards per game, and plenty of guys who can minimize turnovers when you don't need them to throw for more than 225 yards and 1.25 TDs per game. . . that's not intended as a knock on orton, he's done what he has to-- just an observation that his production is pretty replaceable, especially in an offense that has a reputation for generating QB production and is absolutely loaded to the gills with talent at every level. . .

Lonestar
10-09-2009, 06:58 PM
Yeah a 70% comp and 117.5 QB rating isn't worth a crap, is it?

You're right . . . must be the glove . . . :coffee:

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actually in the second half when it counted he was 18 of 20 or 90%..:salute:

not bad for a newbie QB on a new TEAM learning a new scheme with the #1 WR just showing up in game 4 after being almost inactive the first couple of games.

Could it be a glass half full or many folks looking at a 90% second half as bad..

really not sure what some supposed fans expectations are..

Day1BroncoFan
10-09-2009, 06:58 PM
I see your user name is "Day1"Broncofan. So I assume, then, you remember
some of John Elway's first halves? As I have explained elsewhere, I remember
wondering whether I was ever going to see a complete game out of him.

All QBs have bad spells in games. The key is, Orton got it together in the
second half and completed 8 out of 10 from there.

Orton has done fairly well, and I expect him to get better. I predicted he
would break out after the bye this year because he and the rest of the
offense had to become orientated with each other. If so, and if the defense
keeps it up, we have a playoff team in the making . . .

-----

-----

The key is "he has done fairly well". he has done enough to win... barely. Don't get me wrong, I like Orton and his work ethics and all that whole bit. I just want him to stop wasting oppurtunities with bad passing. With the worst of our schedule coming up, this Sunday would be a great time for him to "gel".

WHat I've seen are some missed passes and some really close to int's passes. Those could be the difference in the game. If we expect to go to the superbowl (maybe not this year but ever) with him as the QB he will have to start hitting those throws. Ultimately, that's what I am wanting is a superbowl win. Isn't that what you want? If he can't do then what?

Bronco Warrior
10-09-2009, 07:02 PM
34 yards? Not hardly..and it was underthrown Marshall had to wait for it and got get it..if not it was a pick. Atleast it wasn't 7 yards under thrown like the Deflection pass, the last time they threw it so I guess that is getting better. If he leads Marshall he scores on continuation not having to zigzag and break tackles to get there. Somebody pull up the actual tape and give me a yards from scrimmage to Brandon and if it's more than 30 yards I'll call it close enough and give him a 100 dollar callgirl worth of lovin'!

topscribe
10-09-2009, 07:03 PM
The key is "he has done fairly well". he has done enough to win... barely. Don't get me wrong, I like Orton and his work ethics and all that whole bit. I just want him to stop wasting oppurtunities with bad passing. With the worst of our schedule coming up, this Sunday would be a great time for him to "gel".

WHat I've seen are some missed passes and some really close to int's passes. Those could be the difference in the game. If we expect to go to the superbowl (maybe not this year but ever) with him as the QB he will have to start hitting those throws. Ultimately, that's what I am wanting is a superbowl win. Isn't that what you want? If he can't do then what?

You're going to see more of those "close to int" passes. It's called throwing into
tight windows . . . something Orton does. He did a lot of it last year, with all of
12 interceptions.

Personally, I believe a lot of these worries about Orton have been manufactured
right here on these boards . . .

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Bronco Warrior
10-09-2009, 07:04 PM
Glass half full? I say Glass half empty w Orton but it's still a 4-0 glass either way!! :salute:

Northman
10-09-2009, 07:05 PM
If he leads Marshall he scores on continuation not having to zigzag and break tackles to get there.

Oh wow, like that really dampened the excitement that day. Good grief :lol:

Bronco Warrior
10-09-2009, 07:05 PM
12 ints on a third of the attempts that Culter did and he didn't have 24 ints. Orton won't throw 12 this year though..if he does he will be on the bench muttering "my bad...my bad!"

Bronco Warrior
10-09-2009, 07:08 PM
Oh wow, like that really dampened the excitement that day. Good grief :lol:

Of Course it didn't Woulda been less exciting if Orton didn't put all the passes in the dirt and we had been up by 20 also! It isn't about HAPPY it's about should we love up on Orton or not and I'm not that inclined yet. He has never been a play-maker...I'll take the wins and be happy but that doesn't mean Orton is the bomb!

TXBRONC
10-09-2009, 07:12 PM
34 yards? Not hardly..and it was underthrown Marshall had to wait for it and got get it..if not it was a pick. Atleast it wasn't 7 yards under thrown like the Deflection pass, the last time they threw it so I guess that is getting better. If he leads Marshall he scores on continuation not having to zigzag and break tackles to get there. Somebody pull up the actual tape and give me a yards from scrimmage to Brandon and if it's more than 30 yards I'll call it close enough and give him a 100 dollar callgirl worth of lovin'!

I don't know about that 34 yards in business, to me that's meaningless if it's even accurate. But in Orton's defense he intentionally made it a jump ball.

Northman
10-09-2009, 07:12 PM
He has never been a play-maker..

Nope. Your right. He's just a winner.

Day1BroncoFan
10-09-2009, 07:16 PM
You're going to see more of those "close to int" passes. It's called throwing into
tight windows . . . something Orton does. He did a lot of it last year, with all of
12 interceptions.

Personally, I believe a lot of these worries about Orton have been manufactured
right here on these boards . . .

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I got it from watching the games on TV and seeing the highlights. I'm pretty sure those bad passes were just that. Time will tell on the int's being int's or near int's. I have never watched Orton play until this year so I have no idea of him. His passer rating of 71.1 while with the bears isn't much to brag about and nither is his completion percentage of 55.3.

He is playing better for the Broncos than he did for the bears so far.

I hope you're right about him.

Bronco Warrior
10-09-2009, 07:19 PM
like I said even the glass half empty it's still a 4-0 glass! Side note Cutler is 13-1 (overtime first play TD Farve to Jennings) when D holds under 21..Orton has had that kinda D his whole career.

topscribe
10-09-2009, 07:22 PM
12 ints on a third of the attempts that Culter did and he didn't have 24 ints. Orton won't throw 12 this year though..if he does he will be on the bench muttering "my bad...my bad!"

Actually, Orton's INT to ATTEMP ratio was virtually identical to Cutler's: IIRC,
one's was 2.8%, whereas the other's was 2.9%. (I don't remember which was
which.)

However, if you go back to Orton's first eight games, before his high ankle
sprain, Orton absolutely blew away Cutler in that department with a 1.7.

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Northman
10-09-2009, 07:22 PM
like I said even the glass half empty it's still a 4-0 glass! Side note Cutler is 13-1 (overtime first play TD Farve to Jennings) when D holds under 21..Orton has had that kinda D his whole career.

So then you admit that we are ok with Orton. Glad you finally came around. :beer:

Bronco Warrior
10-09-2009, 07:27 PM
So then you admit that we are ok with Orton. Glad you finally came around. :beer:

Sure we're OK You ok with that?

Bronco Warrior
10-09-2009, 07:39 PM
Actually Cutler threw one every 34.2 pass attempts and Orton every 38.7 attempts.but throw in Ortons 6 fumbles and 27 sacks he was more of a liability than Cutler ever was. Which I could live with if he had the stats, yards, rushing yards and arm-strength of Cutler! But hey good luck to the guy we got..spilt milk and all that stuff!!

topscribe
10-09-2009, 07:46 PM
Actually Cutler threw one every 34.2 pass attempts and Orton every 38.7 attempts.but throw in Ortons 6 fumbles and 27 sacks he was more of a liability than Cutler ever was. Which I could live with if he had the stats, yards, rushing yards and arm-strength of Cutler! But hey good luck to the guy we got..spilt milk and all that stuff!!

Now you are getting into some very unreliable statistics. You know that Denver's
O-line was day-and-night superior to Chicago's. That is a major factor in the
sack totals, and the fumbles, too, since many of the QB's fumbles come when
he is trying to pass.

Now, unless you can figure out when Orton was supposed to block for himself,
I would rather stick with reliable figures . . .

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Bronco Warrior
10-09-2009, 07:50 PM
Our Line is the Bomb!! :salute:

Day1BroncoFan
10-09-2009, 07:57 PM
Orton is the greatest QB ever. I hope he stays just the way he is right now. Why would he need to change anything? His stats are good enough.

topscribe
10-09-2009, 08:13 PM
34 yards? Not hardly..and it was underthrown Marshall had to wait for it and got get it..if not it was a pick. Atleast it wasn't 7 yards under thrown like the Deflection pass, the last time they threw it so I guess that is getting better. If he leads Marshall he scores on continuation not having to zigzag and break tackles to get there. Somebody pull up the actual tape and give me a yards from scrimmage to Brandon and if it's more than 30 yards I'll call it close enough and give him a 100 dollar callgirl worth of lovin'!

What you do is check how far down the field the pass went. Then you check
how far across the field it went. Then you have the figures you need to
calculate the hypotenuse, which is the actual distance in the air. Hard
math is not debatable.

All the rest of your post is pure speculation. I'm not interested in speculation.

P.S. Your remark about the "deflection pass"--which I infer you mean the pass
in the Cincinnati game--indicates to me that you are more interested in
putting Orton down than in facts. Just like the jump ball to Marshall this last
Sunday, if that pass had been six inches longer, it would have sailed out of
bounds . . . six inches shorter, and Hall would have intercepted it. In fact,
the pass was a pretty good one, and had Hall not had the hops to make a
spectacular play, it would have been a completion.

The only thing I had against that pass is that Orton could have put just a
little more arch into it so it would drop more vertically into Marshall behind
Hall. But it was on the mark, regarding its intended target.

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Bronco Warrior
10-09-2009, 08:33 PM
two yards down the field and Marshall runs straight to the endzone..any shorter and NEWMAN does intercept it. 6 inches higher and Marshal grabs it but may or may not have ended up out of bounds. Thrown right, 2-5 yards deeper downfield hitting him in stride and Marshall strolls in! And I don't give a damn about hypotenuse that isn't what anybody means when they say 30 yards. Lobby the league to figure passing hards that way..or how about for a first down!

Tned
10-09-2009, 08:50 PM
I love that he is winning and taking care of the football. I'd really love to see him throw a few more strikes on Sundays and Mondays. He's got my support for now. I reserve the right to change my mind if his play worsens.

Pretty much where I am at.

The 59% or so completion percentage, just doesn't cut it.

In 2008, 20 QBs had a completion percentage of 60%+, Orton was not one of them. He had a 59% completion percentage, like he does this year (it was brought up after the 20-29 performance against Dallas.

In 2007, 24 QBs were 60%+.

In 2006, 18 QBs were 60%+.

It isn't like in the 80's or 90's, when a 55%-60% was a good completion percentage.

This year, there are 18 QBs with a 60%+ completion percentage.

I am very happy with his lack of turnovers, but considering the time he is getting in the pocket, he has to start hitting the open receivers. I am hoping that the finger is causing the problems, but his history points to that not being the cause.

LoyalSoldier
10-09-2009, 08:55 PM
What you do is check how far down the field the pass went. Then you check
how far across the field it went. Then you have the figures you need to
calculate the hypotenuse, which is the actual distance in the air. Hard
math is not debatable.

All the rest of your post is pure speculation. I'm not interested in speculation.

P.S. Your remark about the "deflection pass"--which I infer you mean the pass
in the Cincinnati game--indicates to me that you are more interested in
putting Orton down than in facts. Just like the jump ball to Marshall this last
Sunday, if that pass had been six inches longer, it would have sailed out of
bounds . . . six inches shorter, and Hall would have intercepted it. In fact,
the pass was a pretty good one, and had Hall not had the hops to make a
spectacular play, it would have been a completion.

The only thing I had against that pass is that Orton could have put just a
little more arch into it so it would drop more vertically into Marshall behind
Hall. But it was on the mark, regarding its intended target.

-----
Well if we want to get into super technical math. ;)

I calculate he released the ball on about the 11 yard line and it traveled up to roughly the 34 yard line. A difference of 23. Now using the standard measurements of a NFL football field half the width of the field is 80 feet(26.7 yards) and the distance from the sideline to the top of the numbers is 9 yards or 27 feet. The ball was tipped at about half this distance so 4.5 yards from the sideline thus giving us a X total of 22.2 yards. Use the p-therom and you get a total distance of about 32 yards.

To find the average velocity I recorded the time it took from the throw to the tip and subtracted my own reaction time. I got about 2.2 seconds. So he threw the ball at an average velocity of 14.5 Yard/Sec or 29.7 MPH.

And if you would really like me to I can start applying even more physics equations to this, but it is my friday and I just got done with a long lab report on the Dipole moment of ortho-dichlorobenzene.

Have fun with that information.

Bronco Warrior
10-09-2009, 08:57 PM
Yeah what Tned said!

Bronco Warrior
10-09-2009, 09:01 PM
Loyal: That just funny stuff!!

LoyalSoldier
10-09-2009, 09:02 PM
Loyal: That just funny stuff!!

Kind of sad when I think about it. I am performing these calculations in my free time.

Damn you school for ruining my football time! :lol:

Bronco Warrior
10-09-2009, 09:07 PM
LOL...Football cut into my school time...thank god!! I hated math!!

Tned
10-09-2009, 09:09 PM
All QB's miss throws. Orton's likely get scrutinized a bit more because a lot of us have a preconceived notion that he sucks and is going to fail. Has he missed a few that he needs to be able to hit? Yes, but his struggles have been greatly over exaggerated by several members on here. Low and behold, most of them have been saying since training camp that he is a bad QB...preconceived notions.

It isn't an over-scrutiny by fans thing.

NFL Network spent a lot of time in their AFC Playbook on the Broncos/Pats game, and the Broncos in general. Almost all of it very flattering about the broncos, and especially the D. However, they also did a segment on how many open receivers Orton has missed, and how he is going to have to improve in that area for the Broncos offense to succeed.

Also, as we have saw in the McDaniels "Mic'd" film, McDaniels clearly wasn't pleased with some of Orton's mistakes, as he snapped at him "my bad isn't good enough anymore" or something like that.

There may be reasons for his missed throws (finger injury, still learning the offense and recievers), but the fact is that he is subpar in all categories except turnovers right now. As long as the defense can hold quality teams to 10 or fewer points, then the Broncos will still be in a good position to win, but it is unlikely that they will be able to keep up those numbers against NE, SD, NYG and Phil. The offense is going to have to step up at some point, and that will start with Orton.

LoyalSoldier
10-09-2009, 09:12 PM
As I said the ball went ABOUT 34 yards in the air.



Now, if whether it was 34 or 32 yards, that constitutes about 34.

As for the rest of your display, ask me if I care. :coffee:

The guy said that he would like to see Orton complete a "tough pass over 30
yards." I simply revealed the distance of that pass. What is the big deal about
that? Why is it that people insist on trolling a simple remark that should have
been long forgotten? :tsk:

-----

Woah just calm down. I only calculated the information. I didn't say a word about it. I was just taking your comment about the the hypotenuse and running with it.

It was suppose to be some what of a joke that I am going through all of this trouble for no good reason.

TXBRONC
10-09-2009, 09:14 PM
Woah just calm down. I only calculated the information.

I didn't say a word about it? I was just taking your comment about the the hypotenuse and running with it.

Maybe it's a lack of fiber. :D

topscribe
10-09-2009, 09:15 PM
Woah just calm down. I only calculated the information.

I didn't say a word about it? I was just taking your comment about the the hypotenuse and running with it.

Sorry. Knee-jerk. I just don't know why it has been developed into such a big
deal. But, going back and looking at your figures, I must say I enjoyed the
second look.

-----

LoyalSoldier
10-09-2009, 09:20 PM
It's just a deal with me and math. I didn't read hardly any of the posts here and just happen to see your post at the end. I read "hypotenuse" and the math switch in the back of my head flipped on. What can I say? I'm about to get a BS in both Math and Chemistry. :lol:

topscribe
10-09-2009, 09:58 PM
two yards down the field and Marshall runs straight to the endzone..any shorter and NEWMAN does intercept it. 6 inches higher and Marshal grabs it but may or may not have ended up out of bounds. Thrown right, 2-5 yards deeper downfield hitting him in stride and Marshall strolls in! And I don't give a damn about hypotenuse that isn't what anybody means when they say 30 yards. Lobby the league to figure passing hards that way..or how about for a first down!

You're right about what would have happened, had Marshall kept running and
Orton led him down the field. Marshall had Newman badly beaten, and the only
reason it was a jump ball was because Marshall stopped.

According to Orton's presser, I got the impression that what they did was what
they intended to do. But I can see where Orton could have waved Marshall on
and turned what might have been a simple hook into a fly. Marshall would have
been all by himself at that point.

I hope they have since discussed that in the film room. I'm sure they have . . .

-----

Lancane
10-09-2009, 10:03 PM
Okay. Then tell me. On the Moreno pass, what would have happened if:

1. The pass was 6 inches to the left
2. The pass was 6 inches to the right
3. The pass was 6 inches up
4. The pass was 6 inches down
5. The pass was not thrown as hard as it was

On the Marshall pass, you tell me what would have happened if:

1. The pass was 6 inches longer
2. The pass was 6 inches shorter

Let's add the pass to Royal. Now we have three accurate heaters to consider.
And that one was with a pass rusher in his face.

Now, go listen to Orton's presser and see whether he was a liar. He was
completely truthful about the Moreno pass. Why wouldn't he be truthful about
the Marshall pass? The trouble is, from your remark, you obviously don't know
a lot about Orton . . .

-----

Really Top, is that the best you have? Really?...

Orton has been questioned about his arm strength and the heat of his throws by some of the most respective analytical minds in the sport; he is inconsistent putting heat on most of his throws, but still he has been known to throw a good tight spiral now and then with some zip; a bigger problem is his accuracy which has always been questionable, let alone his field of vision - during his pro career he has never had tremendous accuracy, part of why Chicago was not satisfied with him in all the years he was there. Even at Purdue he barely broke the 60.0 completion ratio and in a spread offensive system...there is a reason Top why he was drafted in the 4th Round while the likes of Couch and Smith, even Tebow will likely go higher...because he was rather insignificant as a spread quarterback at the collegiate level.

So you're telling me that a quarterback that has overthrown and underthrown his receivers by near 20% suddenly could add zip on two passes needed and perfectly on target? The odds are very unlikely...but then again Top, you and I argued about Plummer and Griese for years, and like I said...believe what you want Top, I am not here to change your mind, you can not change mine and that's that.

broncophan
10-09-2009, 10:05 PM
then don't..

I stopped reading after that remark.. perhaps there was something worth reading in it but it was lost after a bronco fan saying he/she can not back their QB..

LOL.....I can remember a helluva lot of people around here..saying the same thing a few years ago when youknowwho was the qb and the team was 7-4 and the defense was giving us a chance to win almost all those games.....before they ran out of steam.....

I would be happy if Orton keeps doing what he's doing.....no stupid to's to give the opposing team a short field.....I would think our defense and coaching staff feel the same way.

Lancane
10-09-2009, 10:09 PM
then don't..

I stopped reading after that remark.. perhaps there was something worth reading in it but it was lost after a bronco fan saying he/she can not back their QB..

Fans don't have to back the quarterback of their team...blind faith has nothing to do with fan loyalty to a team, which you well know.

broncophan
10-09-2009, 10:15 PM
Fans don't have to back the quarterback of their team...blind faith has nothing to do with fan loyalty to a team, which you well know.

The only way I would have any problem backing a qb for the broncos is if he was a thug like Vick....or something similar to that.....other than that, I agree.......fans should back their qb.......imo

topscribe
10-09-2009, 10:18 PM
Really Top, is that the best you have? Really?...

Orton has been questioned about his arm strength and the heat of his throws by some of the most respective analytical minds in the sport; he is inconsistent putting heat on most of his throws, but still he has been known to throw a good tight spiral now and then with some zip; a bigger problem is his accuracy which has always been questionable, let alone his field of vision - during his pro career he has never had tremendous accuracy, part of why Chicago was not satisfied with him in all the years he was there. Even at Purdue he barely broke the 60.0 completion ratio and in a spread offensive system...there is a reason Top he was drafted in the 4th Round while the likes of Couch and Smith, even Tebow will likely go higher...because he was rather insignificant as a spread quarterback at the collegiate level.

So you're telling me that a quarterback that has overthrown and underthrown his receivers by near 20% suddenly could add zip on two passes needed and perfectly on target? The odds are very unlikely...but then again Top, you and I argued about Plummer and Griese for years, and like I said...believe what you want Top, I am not here to change your mind, you can not change mine and that's that.

Right. There's a reason why Orton was drafted in the 4th round. What was
the reason, then, that Brady was drafted in the 6th round? Unitas in the 9th
round? Starr in the 17th round? What was the reason Couch went so high?
Where is he now? Why was Ryan Leaf selected overall #1, before Peyton
Manning? I get so tired of hearing "there's a reason he was drafted in the
_____ round." I would like to hear about that from TD, Shannon Sharpe, Rod
Smith, Karl Mecklenburg, et al.

While you are on this "believe what you want" kick, how much do you actually
know about Orton? I saw several of his games last year, reviewed 64 clips,
and read all I could about him. I know, therefore, that it wasn't "suddenly"
that he could add zip to passes. The velocity he showed to Moreno, I have
seen before. And so has everyone else by now, at least everyone who has
not set his mind on how bad Orton is.

Oh, BTW, I have never argued with you, or anyone else, about Griese. I did
back Plummer, our last winning QB . . . before Orton. And the last QB to lead
the Broncos to the playoffs, which he did three years in a row.

Wow, I must know what I'm talking about . . . :coffee:

-----

Bronco Warrior
10-09-2009, 10:19 PM
http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=104&pictureid=895
Here is a High Tech quality diagram of the Play in question! rofl. And on this planet when we say 10, 20, 30 yards it means line of scrimmage to any point on a line paralell to the line of scrimmage the designated distance! Not GeekSpeak (no offense Loyal)! Like that was a gain of 34 yards...you don't get credit for actual distance the ball travels or the actual measurement of the path the runner took to gain X amount of yards gain. A WR quick screen might be 15 yards sideways along the line of scrimmage..but hey he threww it more than ten yards...first down right?

topscribe
10-09-2009, 10:23 PM
http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=104&pictureid=895
Here is a High Tech quality diagram of the Play in question! rofl. And on this planet when we say 10, 20, 30 yards it means line of scrimmage to any point on a line paralell to the line of scrimmage the designated distance! Not GeekSpeak (no offense Loyal)! Like that was a gain of 34 yards...you don't get credit for actual distance the ball travels or the actual measurement of the path the runner took to gain X amount of yards gain. A WR quick screen might be 15 yards sideways along the line of scrimmage..but hey he threww it more than ten yards...first down right?

Wow, that issue is really important to you, isn't it?

-----

Bronco Warrior
10-09-2009, 10:23 PM
Every game I watched of Orton last year his defense and Special teams scored more than he did with his arm. Ever wonder why he couldn't beat out Grossman or Griese unless one of them was hurt? Those are two fine QB's to have to sit behind and learn from right?

Bronco Warrior
10-09-2009, 10:24 PM
wow, that issue is really important to you, isn't it?

-----

it's a freaking joke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

LoyalSoldier
10-09-2009, 10:34 PM
I give Orton all the credit in the world for at least being a QB who isn't accident prone. I admit that even though Orton isn't a world beater, he is a lot better than some of the other options we could have ended up with.

He seems to know his limitations which is a good sign.

Bronco Warrior
10-09-2009, 10:38 PM
I give Orton all the credit in the world for at least being a QB who isn't accident prone. I admit that even though Orton isn't a world beater, he is a lot better than some of the other options we could have ended up with.

He seems to know his limitations which is a good sign.

I'll give him that...just wish his limitations didn't seem to always come with a "My Bad" and a shrug!

Lonestar
10-09-2009, 10:43 PM
I'll give him that...just wish his limitations didn't seem to always come with a "My Bad" and a shrug!

and just how do you KNOW they do or don't ..

form the ONE response to a mic'd up coach.

man this forum is getting ........... again..

topscribe
10-09-2009, 10:56 PM
Every game I watched of Orton last year his defense and Special teams scored more than he did with his arm. Ever wonder why he couldn't beat out Grossman or Griese unless one of them was hurt? Those are two fine QB's to have to sit behind and learn from right?

I have seen this argument a few times already, and I believe it is the stupidest
one in the entire debate.

Orton beat out Grossman last year in preseason. (Griese was already gone.)
Orton then went on to start eight straight games. Here are his achievements
through those eight games:

1,669 yards
10 touchdowns
4 interceptions (5 games without an interception)
143 completions
230 attempts
62.2 completion percentage
7.26 per attempt
4-3 team record
91.4 QB Rating

However, Orton incurred a high ankle sprain early in the eighth game, so
Grossman took over for the rest of that game and the ninth game. Orton then
took his job back, high ankle sprain and all, and finished the season playing on
that injury.

Here is what Frank Schwab or the Colorado Springs Gazette wrote about
those first seven games:


Few people remember how good Orton was over his first seven starts last season. He was efficient and in games three through seven threw for at least 199 yards every outing. The Bears lost by three points at Carolina (the second best team in the NFC last year), lost in overtime to Tampa Bay (the Buccaneers scored 10 points in the final 3:11, including a touchdown with seven seconds left, to tie) and lost on a last-second field goal at Atlanta after a heinous decision to squib kick after Orton completed what should have been the game-winning touchdown with 11 seconds left. The Bears were 4-3 with three excruciating losses to good teams, and Orton was a big reason for their success.

(Retrieved from BroncoTalk.com (http://broncotalk.net/2009/07/7108/broncos-buzz/kyle-orton-hope-fully/))

During the second half of 2008, Orton's numbers went down (although he still
did some good things), which was understandable, considering the severity of
the injury on which he was playing. The first seven games are representative
of what he could do when healthy (with a bad O-line, bad receivers, the #27
ranked running game, and #30 ranked pass defense, BTW).

-----

topscribe
10-09-2009, 11:13 PM
Here is an interesting post from over on Broncos Country (http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showpost.php?p=2954120&postcount=1):


Playing quarterback for the Denver Broncos means everything you do is going to be under the microscope.

We have a lot of Orton defenders and a lot of Orton bashers around here. So, which side is right? When I break down a quarterback's performance, I look at how he performs in the clutch. Let's take a look at Orton's situational stats.

***These numbers are for the ENTIRE SEASON through week 4, not any singular game***

Kyle Orton in the first half:
50.7 completion percentage, 5.5 yards per attempt, 347 yards, 78.9 QB rating

Pedestrian by all accounts. I think we can all agree on that.

Now let's look at his second half numbers:
70.8 completion percentage, 11.6 yards per attempt, 559 yards, 123.5 QB rating

Those numbers are impressive no matter how you look at it, even if you don't count the Immaculate Deflection (which I do, because every QB gets lucky sometimes).

Let's break that down further. Here are his numbers for the 4th quarter:
73.9 completion percentage, 15.7 yards per attempt, 144.7 QB rating

Those are borderline ridiculous.

How about the 4th quarter, when the difference in score is less than 7 points?
78.9 completion percentage, 16.9 yards per attempt, 153.8 QB rating

Yeah, that's eye-popping. Orton has been getting it done in crunch time.

Let's look at this from a different perspective, though.

Here are Kyle Orton's numbers when the Broncos are ahead:
55.7 completion percentage, 7.4 yards per attempt, 79.5 QB rating

This makes sense. When the Broncos are winning, Kyle Orton is more likely to be conservative. He's going to use his checkdowns, hit his running backs out of the backfield, and throw the ball away under pressure.

We would expect him to play a little better when the score is tied, and that's what he does:
58.3 completion percentage, 6.8 yards per attempt, 106.8 QB rating

Nothing to write home about, but certainly well above average.

And how about when the Broncos are trailing?
65.6 completion percentage, 9.0 yards per attempt, 125.7 QB rating

His numbers have the arc you would expect a winner's numbers to have. He plays alright when we're ahead, well when we're tied, and great when we're behind.

What does this mean for Orton bashers?
It means Orton bashers need to give the man a little credit. He has been playing well when it matters most. He hasn't turned it over yet and his clutch stats far exceed his normal stats. Oh, and we're 4-0.

What does this mean for Orton defenders?
It means that you're right for sticking up for the guy, but we also have to recognize that he needs to be good ALL THE TIME and not just in certain situations. Kyle Orton needs to play better in the first half, so that we aren't in a position to NEED big plays in the second. And he needs to continue to play well with the lead so that we don't let teams back into games.

Bottom line?

The bottom line is that Kyle Orton has been playing well when it matters most, and we've been winning football games BECAUSE of it and not in SPITE of it. But you're crazy if you think that he can't improve, and we're going to need him to improve as this schedule gets tougher.

-----

Bronco Warrior
10-09-2009, 11:25 PM
I have seen this argument a few times already, and I believe it is the stupidest
one in the entire debate.
--

You would but it doesn't change the facts. Orton had a great running game and a defense that shut down opposing offenses and scored points and gave him a short field...ST did too.

Fact: Cutler when D hold to 21 or less 13-1..that one loss was overtime and the Offense never got to touch the ball! Orton's defense averaged 19 point a game last year and ORton was still 9-7 and 3 of those were against Detroit (2) and the Rams. The Bears scored an average of 26.5 points a game but Orton's arm accounted for 18
td passes in 14.5 games for a whopping 7.448 points a game.. and rushed for 3 more..that brings him to a whopping 8.7 points a game. Wwhere did the other 18 points a game from? Orton barely outscore Robbie Gould at 7.4 points a game! Sounds like Orton was the reason they won to me!!

topscribe
10-09-2009, 11:29 PM
You would but it doesn't change the facts. Orton had a great running game and a defense that shut down opposing offenses and scored points and gave him a short field...ST did too.


Right.

Chicago's "great" running game ranked #27 in the league in YPA (Denver's was #2).

Chicago's pass defense ranked #30 in the league. Shutdown, indeed.

-----

Bronco Warrior
10-09-2009, 11:35 PM
I think there is plenty of room to improve. The facts are that he puts a ton of balls in the dirt and way off target, With the talent we have a receiver they have to be WAY off target to not give them a real chance to get them..which they have grabbed alot of crap off the turf for catches. I love the Broncos as much as you Topscribe but I don't have to put my head in the sand and be happy that we have an average QB that is doing the minimum to not lose? Let see how he does when he actually has to put up significant numbers for us to win.

Bronco Warrior
10-09-2009, 11:38 PM
Defense 11th in PPG at 19! Offense 26.2 a game Orton 8.7 a game! Facts! again Cutler 13-1 with a Defense that holds under 22 points.

topscribe
10-09-2009, 11:43 PM
Defense 11th in PPG at 19! Offense 26.2 a game Orton 8.7 a game! Facts! again Cutler 13-1 with a Defense that holds under 22 points.

Cutler? How did Cutler get into this? You want a Cutler/Orton debate? You
need to approach someone else with this. I'm not into Cutler/Orton debates.


I think there is plenty of room to improve. The facts are that he puts a ton of balls in the dirt and way off target, With the talent we have a receiver they have to be WAY off target to not give them a real chance to get them..which they have grabbed alot of crap off the turf for catches. I love the Broncos as much as you Topscribe but I don't have to put my head in the sand and be happy that we have an average QB that is doing the minimum to not lose? Let see how he does when he actually has to put up significant numbers for us to win.

Had you been talking about an "average" QB, I would have had no argument
with you. You weren't talking about an "average" QB. You were talking about a
bum. I believe Orton is at least an "average" QB.

You can accuse me of burying my head in the sand all you want, but the fact
is, I am the one who has been documenting my arguments all along, as opposed
to the "duh, Orton sucks" crowd.

And so your comment here is very similar to how the whole issue got started.
So we have run a full circle. Ready for another round? I'm not.

I'm outta here . . . :coffee:

-----

Day1BroncoFan
10-09-2009, 11:55 PM
Here is an interesting post from over on Broncos Country (http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showpost.php?p=2954120&postcount=1):


Bottom line?

The bottom line is that Kyle Orton has been playing well when it matters most, and we've been winning football games BECAUSE of it and not in SPITE of it. But you're crazy if you think that he can't improve, and we're going to need him to improve as this schedule gets tougher.


-----


top, this is what I've been trying to say. Thank you for proving my point.

dogfish
10-09-2009, 11:56 PM
I give Orton all the credit in the world for at least being a QB who isn't accident prone.


yea, good point-- at least he hasn't tripped over his dog, fallen down in TD's driveway or broken his foot getting off the couch yet. . . .

honz
10-10-2009, 12:06 AM
yea, good point-- at least he hasn't tripped over his dog, fallen down in TD's driveway or broken his foot getting off the couch yet. . . .

...or have diabetes...

:behindsofa:

NameUsedBefore
10-10-2009, 12:11 AM
This will be unpopular but I think Orton is getting by the skin of his teeth. In every game he's had a few INTs bizarrely dropped by the opposing defense. Is he winning? Yeah, but I can't imagine that sort of luck is going to work all season.

Reidman
10-10-2009, 12:37 AM
Not trying to turn this thread into a QB debate, just making a point...


Regular Season Games Passing Rushing Fumbles
WK Game Date Opp Result G GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck SckY Rate Att Yds Avg TD FUM Lost

Cutler 2008
1 09/08 @ OAK W 41-14 1 1 16 24 66.7 300 12.5 2 0 0 0 137.5 5 9 1.8 0 -- --
2 09/14 SD W 39-38 1 1 36 50 72.0 350 7.0 4 1 1 9 109.6 2 6 3.0 0 1 0
3 09/21 NO W 34-32 1 1 21 34 61.8 264 7.8 2 1 0 0 93.3 1 7 7.0 0 -- --
4 09/28 @ KC L 19-33 1 1 29 49 59.2 361 7.4 1 2 1 9 71.9 2 6 3.0 0 1 0



Orton 2009
1 09/13 @ CIN W 12-7 1 1 17 28 60.7 243 8.7 1 0 3 16 100.7 1 3 3.0 0 -- --
2 09/20 CLE W 27-6 1 1 19 37 51.4 263 7.1 1 0 0 0 83.5 2 0 0.0 0 -- --
3 09/27 @ OAK W 23-3 1 1 13 23 56.5 157 6.8 1 0 0 0 92.1 1 -1 -1.0 0 -- --
4 10/04 DAL W 17-10 1 1 20 29 69.0 243 8.4 2 0 3 22 117.5 3 0 0.0 0 1 0

About the only difference I see is yardage totals and TO's. The formula is simple. Stop giving the other team chances to score and you can win games. Orton has done that by protecting the ball. I think the difference here is he is not willing to throw the ball for the sake of making a play. If it's not there he gets rid of it, which to me is about as smart and mature a play as a QB can make...

LoyalSoldier
10-10-2009, 02:05 AM
Not trying to turn this thread into a QB debate, just making a point...


Regular Season Games Passing Rushing Fumbles
WK Game Date Opp Result G GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck SckY Rate Att Yds Avg TD FUM Lost

Cutler 2008
1 09/08 @ OAK W 41-14 1 1 16 24 66.7 300 12.5 2 0 0 0 137.5 5 9 1.8 0 -- --
2 09/14 SD W 39-38 1 1 36 50 72.0 350 7.0 4 1 1 9 109.6 2 6 3.0 0 1 0
3 09/21 NO W 34-32 1 1 21 34 61.8 264 7.8 2 1 0 0 93.3 1 7 7.0 0 -- --
4 09/28 @ KC L 19-33 1 1 29 49 59.2 361 7.4 1 2 1 9 71.9 2 6 3.0 0 1 0



Orton 2009
1 09/13 @ CIN W 12-7 1 1 17 28 60.7 243 8.7 1 0 3 16 100.7 1 3 3.0 0 -- --
2 09/20 CLE W 27-6 1 1 19 37 51.4 263 7.1 1 0 0 0 83.5 2 0 0.0 0 -- --
3 09/27 @ OAK W 23-3 1 1 13 23 56.5 157 6.8 1 0 0 0 92.1 1 -1 -1.0 0 -- --
4 10/04 DAL W 17-10 1 1 20 29 69.0 243 8.4 2 0 3 22 117.5 3 0 0.0 0 1 0About the only difference I see is yardage totals and TO's. The formula is simple. Stop giving the other team chances to score and you can win games. Orton has done that by protecting the ball. I think the difference here is he is not willing to throw the ball for the sake of making a play. If it's not there he gets rid of it, which to me is about as smart and mature a play as a QB can make...

One other difference I see scores of 14, 38,32,33 compared to 7, 6, 3 ,10. Amazing what a defense can do isn't it?

dogfish
10-10-2009, 02:07 AM
Not trying to turn this thread into a QB debate, just making a point...


Regular Season Games Passing Rushing Fumbles
WK Game Date Opp Result G GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck SckY Rate Att Yds Avg TD FUM Lost

Cutler 2008
1 09/08 @ OAK W 41-14 1 1 16 24 66.7 300 12.5 2 0 0 0 137.5 5 9 1.8 0 -- --
2 09/14 SD W 39-38 1 1 36 50 72.0 350 7.0 4 1 1 9 109.6 2 6 3.0 0 1 0
3 09/21 NO W 34-32 1 1 21 34 61.8 264 7.8 2 1 0 0 93.3 1 7 7.0 0 -- --
4 09/28 @ KC L 19-33 1 1 29 49 59.2 361 7.4 1 2 1 9 71.9 2 6 3.0 0 1 0



Orton 2009
1 09/13 @ CIN W 12-7 1 1 17 28 60.7 243 8.7 1 0 3 16 100.7 1 3 3.0 0 -- --
2 09/20 CLE W 27-6 1 1 19 37 51.4 263 7.1 1 0 0 0 83.5 2 0 0.0 0 -- --
3 09/27 @ OAK W 23-3 1 1 13 23 56.5 157 6.8 1 0 0 0 92.1 1 -1 -1.0 0 -- --
4 10/04 DAL W 17-10 1 1 20 29 69.0 243 8.4 2 0 3 22 117.5 3 0 0.0 0 1 0

About the only difference I see is yardage totals and TO's.


:listen: that, and the 9 TDs to 5, and the fact that jay was asked to throw 34 more times. . . and oh yea, 26 points given up by the defense instead of 117. . . . :lol:

:doh:


sorry bro, but IMO there's really no comparison between this year and last-- the teams are so different, it really is apples and oranges. . . having watched all of the games, i will say that i think we would have started 1-3 instead of 3-1 if we'd had orton last year, because no way in hell do i see him winning a shootout against an offense led by either brees or rivers. . .

and don't tell me we only got in a shootout in those games because jay's turnovers gave the other team so many easy points-- one turnover in each game doesn't exactly lead to 30+ points!


doesn't matter anyway. . . cutler's in chicago and orton's here-- for now, at least. . . i wouldn't bet any money on him being here next year. . . we'll see. . . .

broncofaninfla
10-10-2009, 09:56 AM
As long as Orton is our QB I'll be pulling for him BUT our passing game is CLEARLY the weakest aspect of our team and Orton is the man throwing the balls.....just sayin.......

Northman
10-10-2009, 10:05 AM
Its all about winning.

Ravage!!!
10-10-2009, 10:19 AM
This will be unpopular but I think Orton is getting by the skin of his teeth. In every game he's had a few INTs bizarrely dropped by the opposing defense. Is he winning? Yeah, but I can't imagine that sort of luck is going to work all season.

Well.. I agree with you, but as I said in the past with former QBs... we can't count "almost INTs".... its just not fair. I heard this all last season too, he "almost" had another INT.

But you are DEAD on. In fact, the two games we had that had the unbelievable last minute TDs came from passes that should have been ints. So we have been living off the skin of our teeth.

THAT is the good thing about having a defense that keeps you in the game. A lucky play (or two) can make the difference between a win and loss. Last year, our defense was giving up 30+ points... you need more than just the lucky play.

Ravage!!!
10-10-2009, 10:21 AM
One other difference I see scores of 14, 38,32,33 compared to 7, 6, 3 ,10. Amazing what a defense can do isn't it?

yeah.. I remember MO on here telling a few of us that we would much rather have a Cutler and lose 41-42 with huge stats than win 14-13. Uhmmm.. NOO

I want the offense that can put up the 41 points matched with the defense that can let us win with 14 (like we have right now). :beer:

yay for defense

Ravage!!!
10-10-2009, 10:23 AM
Its all about winning.

Not if you are talking about the individual positions.. then you talk about individual performance.


I guess I could say. DAMN its a good thing we spent the money for that high dollar LS, cause its all about the winning!!

skycoyote
10-10-2009, 10:24 AM
Has anybody else heard that Orton throws real well in practice and then kinda chokes in the games? I heard that out of Chicago once and at the Dallas game Troy Aikman was talking about how Orton was throwing real well in practice.

Ravage!!!
10-10-2009, 10:26 AM
Not trying to turn this thread into a QB debate, just making a point...


Regular Season Games Passing Rushing Fumbles
WK Game Date Opp Result G GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck SckY Rate Att Yds Avg TD FUM Lost

Cutler 2008
1 09/08 @ OAK W 41-14 1 1 16 24 66.7 300 12.5 2 0 0 0 137.5 5 9 1.8 0 -- --
2 09/14 SD W 39-38 1 1 36 50 72.0 350 7.0 4 1 1 9 109.6 2 6 3.0 0 1 0
3 09/21 NO W 34-32 1 1 21 34 61.8 264 7.8 2 1 0 0 93.3 1 7 7.0 0 -- --
4 09/28 @ KC L 19-33 1 1 29 49 59.2 361 7.4 1 2 1 9 71.9 2 6 3.0 0 1 0



Orton 2009
1 09/13 @ CIN W 12-7 1 1 17 28 60.7 243 8.7 1 0 3 16 100.7 1 3 3.0 0 -- --
2 09/20 CLE W 27-6 1 1 19 37 51.4 263 7.1 1 0 0 0 83.5 2 0 0.0 0 -- --
3 09/27 @ OAK W 23-3 1 1 13 23 56.5 157 6.8 1 0 0 0 92.1 1 -1 -1.0 0 -- --
4 10/04 DAL W 17-10 1 1 20 29 69.0 243 8.4 2 0 3 22 117.5 3 0 0.0 0 1 0

About the only difference I see is yardage totals and TO's. The formula is simple. Stop giving the other team chances to score and you can win games. Orton has done that by protecting the ball. I think the difference here is he is not willing to throw the ball for the sake of making a play. If it's not there he gets rid of it, which to me is about as smart and mature a play as a QB can make...

Funny though.. I LIKE having a QB that is willing to make plays. You can't gain big things without taking chances downfield. Thats the difference btween the average and the REALLY good....


**edit** Right now, with our defense playing as it is, it works. Absolutely. No need for big plays when the defense (right now) is keeping the other team to such low points. Thats the difference between this year and last.... and also makes me a bit concerned for when we DO get behind in points and need those points put on the board in a hurry.

Northman
10-10-2009, 10:34 AM
yeah.. I remember MO on here telling a few of us that we would much rather have a Cutler and lose 41-42 with huge stats than win 14-13. Uhmmm.. NOO

I want the offense that can put up the 41 points matched with the defense that can let us win with 14 (like we have right now). :beer:

yay for defense


Such a shame the Qb didnt want to stay here. He could of been all world.

Ravage!!!
10-10-2009, 10:40 AM
Such a shame the Qb didnt want to stay here. He could of been all world.

:lol: its a shame alright.....

broncobryce
10-10-2009, 10:48 AM
Here's what I think. Cassel was not very good at all last year at first. Then as the season went along he got better and better. I think the same thing will happen with Orton. Also, I think Orton will take more chances when he needs to, like if we are down 10 or so. He keeps the game within reach and takes the chance when he needs to. That's smart, and that's why he's 25-12, while our good buddy is now what 20-21?

Ravage!!!
10-10-2009, 10:55 AM
actually.. its our defense that is keeping the opposing team within reach, and if we are going to compare records to "our good buddy".. lets see how our QB does if/when we give up 30+ points in 15 out of 32 games. That 'old buddy' was 13-1 whe the opposing team scored 3 TDs or less.

I know the INT thing is a real popular knock..but we sure weren't saying that about him his second season.. only tthe season where we lose 7 RBs, throw the ball 616 times, and give up 30+ points in NINE friggin games of the year. :lol:


I like how our defense is keeping our QB in the game. I MUCH prefer THAT than the alternative or having to watch opposing teams walk through us like they did last year. I'm just saying, as of RIGHT NOW, our current QB has not shown the ability to make those big passes and plays without some UNBELIEVABLE luck.

Let the defense keep rocking, and our luck keep pouring. :beer:

Northman
10-10-2009, 11:01 AM
I know the INT thing is a real popular knock..but we sure weren't saying that about him his second season.. only tthe season where we lose 7 RBs, throw the ball 616 times, and give up 30+ points in NINE friggin games of the year. :lol:




You must have some serious memory loss then. There were plenty of people giving him grief over his inconsistent play in his second season as well.

broncobryce
10-10-2009, 11:05 AM
actually.. its our defense that is keeping the opposing team within reach, and if we are going to compare records to "our good buddy".. lets see how our QB does if/when we give up 30+ points in 15 out of 32 games. That 'old buddy' was 13-1 whe the opposing team scored 3 TDs or less.

I know the INT thing is a real popular knock..but we sure weren't saying that about him his second season.. only tthe season where we lose 7 RBs, throw the ball 616 times, and give up 30+ points in NINE friggin games of the year. :lol:


I like how our defense is keeping our QB in the game. I MUCH prefer THAT than the alternative or having to watch opposing teams walk through us like they did last year. I'm just saying, as of RIGHT NOW, our current QB has not shown the ability to make those big passes and plays without some UNBELIEVABLE luck.

Let the defense keep rocking, and our luck keep pouring. :beer:

I agree, but I think Orton deserves some credit for not turning the ball over. We lead the league in turnover differential if I remember correctly, and that is a major factor in win total. It helps to not give the other team the ball in our territory, or getting a turnover instead of field goal or touchdown.

Northman
10-10-2009, 11:21 AM
The really sad thing about a lot of this is the unfair criticisms for Orton just because he isnt a John Elway or top tier QB.

I mean, here is a guy who didnt ask to be traded and when it happened he took it in stride and is being the consumate team player. He goes out every week just doing what is asked of him yet some people will only complain because he doesnt put up big numbers or doesnt have a pretty pass. Yea, eventually his shortcomings might cost us some games but did we really think we were winning the SB this year? I didnt. And im not sure if Kyle will be the longterm answer but for now ill gladly take a guy who isnt crying to the media or comparing himself to past HOF Qb's. Instead, we have a guy who is humble and appreciative that he can play in the NFL and shows he wants to win and is doing everything within his power to help achieve that for the team and fans.

Ravage!!!
10-10-2009, 11:22 AM
I agree, but I think Orton deserves some credit for not turning the ball over. We lead the league in turnover differential if I remember correctly, and that is a major factor in win total. It helps to not give the other team the ball in our territory, or getting a turnover instead of field goal or touchdown.

I do. As I said, its good to have a defense that keeps us close, so that when we DO have those lucky plays at the end of the game... we can come out with a win.

Northman
10-10-2009, 11:23 AM
yOu must have some SERIOUS reading comprehension problems, because I said INTs... *Pointing to the post that YOU quoted*

:lol:

Uh, inconsistent play would include INTs.

Ravage!!!
10-10-2009, 11:27 AM
The really sad thing about a lot of this is the unfair criticisms for Orton just because he isnt a John Elway or top tier QB.

I mean, here is a guy who didnt ask to be traded and when it happened he took it in stride and is being the consumate team player. He goes out every week just doing what is asked of him yet some people will only complain because he doesnt put up big numbers or doesnt have a pretty pass. Yea, eventually his shortcomings might cost us some games but did we really think we were winning the SB this year? I didnt. And im not sure if Kyle will be the longterm answer but for now ill gladly take a guy who isnt crying to the media or comparing himself to past HOF Qb's. Instead, we have a guy who is humble and appreciative that he can play in the NFL and shows he wants to win and is doing everything within his power to help achieve that for the team and fans.


No...whats sad is that you can't differentiate the difference between criticizing HIM and criticizing his PLAY. I think Orton as a guy, is a great guy. I don't know him personally, but feel he's a pretty good man.

But that has NOTHING to do with the comments about the PLAYER on the field.

Can YOU say the same thing about your criticisms on Cutler? I know for a fact that you can't.

So your entire post is based on a hypocritical notion that we should treat him differently because he didn't ask to be traded. (just for the record, again, since you have shown to have some comprehension issues.... the media made the comparisons to Cutler's arm and Elway's.... not him.)

Northman
10-10-2009, 11:28 AM
Can YOU say the same thing about your criticisms on Cutler? I know for a fact that you can't.




Explain. This ought to be good.

Northman
10-10-2009, 11:30 AM
(just for the record, again, since you have shown to have some comprehension issues.... the media made the comparisons to Cutler's arm and Elway's.... not him.)

Ooops. Hope this doesnt hurt your pride.


-- Cutler on his arm vs. John Elway's: "I have a stronger arm than John, hands down. I'll bet on it against anybody's in the league. Brett Favre's got a cannon. But on game days, there's nobody in the league who's going to throw it harder than I am at all."

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2008-10-09/jay-cutler-i-have-stronger-arm-elway

Ravage!!!
10-10-2009, 11:33 AM
Explain. This ought to be good.

North.. this ought to be good? Seriously?

you ar saying the ONLY complaints you have had on cutler is his play ON the field? really? Are you drunk this morning?

You can't read what I'm saying, you can't even remember what YOU've said..... now you actually asking me to explain how I can possibly come up with proof that criticize Cutler outside the football field??? Really???

Ravage!!!
10-10-2009, 11:38 AM
Ooops. Hope this doesnt hurt your pride.



http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2008-10-09/jay-cutler-i-have-stronger-arm-elway

doesn't hurt my pride... what were the questions asked at the interview?

I said it then, and I'll say it once again.......

Comparing your arm strength is NOT comparing your QB'ing ability :lol: I still dont' get the complaints on this? I'm a HUGE HUGE HUGE Elway fan. I have his jersey in FRAMEs' in My living room along with tens of other signed stuff in MY house. The reason I became a Bronco fan was because I was a 12 yr old QB and followed Elway to the Broncos.

So I still don't see the 'comparisons' to Elway, and only see the comparisons to one's arm strength. :laugh: The questions then were asking him for a response, and he gave it. I know I know.. you would PREFER him to give the standard answers...

But let me guess, that would be criticizing his stuff OFF the field, right??? :lol::lol::lol:

Northman
10-10-2009, 11:42 AM
North.. this ought to be good? Seriously?

you ar saying the ONLY complaints you have had on cutler is his play ON the field? really? Are you drunk this morning?

You can't read what I'm saying, you can't even remember what YOU've said..... now you actually asking me to explain how I can possibly come up with proof that criticize Cutler outside the football field??? Really???


Why would you even try to make that arguement? Im talking about everything with the Qb's. Why should his off the field antics not be noted? Is the mental aspect of a Qb not important? I never just talk about a QB's performance on the field because its not the only thing that relevant to a good Qb. Why it is you think that im only going to focus on one aspect of a QB is a head scratcher. I even pointed out that in his second season he was inconsistent and thats not even including his attitude issues. Ive been just as objective with Jay as i have been with Kyle. If there is someone who is lost in the conversation its you my friend.

Northman
10-10-2009, 11:44 AM
doesn't hurt my pride... what were the questions asked at the interview?

I said it then, and I'll say it once again.......

Comparing your arm strength is NOT comparing your QB'ing ability :lol: I still dont' get the complaints on this? I'm a HUGE HUGE HUGE Elway fan. I have his jersey in FRAMEs' in My living room along with tens of other signed stuff in MY house. The reason I became a Bronco fan was because I was a 12 yr old QB and followed Elway to the Broncos.

So I still don't see the 'comparisons' to Elway, and only see the comparisons to one's arm strength. :laugh: The questions then were asking him for a response, and he gave it. I know I know.. you would PREFER him to give the standard answers...

But let me guess, that would be criticizing his stuff OFF the field, right??? :lol::lol::lol:


OMG. Dude, he was asked how his arm strength was compared to ELWAY's. Thats a direct comparison dude. Good grief. It doesnt get pointed out any clearer than that. :lol:

Ravage!!!
10-10-2009, 11:49 AM
OMG. Dude, he was asked how his arm strength was compared to ELWAY's. Thats a direct comparison dude. Good grief. It doesnt get pointed out any clearer than that. :lol:

Right.. did you read the post? Because thats a DIRECT comparison to Elway's arm.... not Elway the QB. Where did you get I said anything different? :confused:

Northman
10-10-2009, 11:53 AM
Right.. did you read the post? Because thats a DIRECT comparison to Elway's arm.... not Elway the QB. Where did you get I said anything different? :confused:

Seriously.. north. You REALLY need to work on your reading comprehension. It is REALLY REALLY bad.

Uh, Elway's arm is part of the Qb. Im reading just fine dude. Just because he didnt say he was a better overall QB than John Elway does not mean he didnt compare himself to John. Nice try though.

Ravage!!!
10-10-2009, 12:00 PM
Uh, Elway's arm is part of the Qb. Im reading just fine dude. Just because he didnt say he was a better overall QB than John Elway does not mean he didnt compare himself to John. Nice try though.

Uh.. actually. Thats not true. I can say I can bench press more than Arnold Swarchenegger, but that doesn't mean I believe I'm a better body builder than Arnold Swarchenegger. Does it make my statement any less true because I 'bragged' that I could bench more than Arnold? No. But I'm guessing because I made that statement, that you would come and throw Arnold's body building trophies in my face. Even if I was a body builder, I wouldn't be saying that I was BETTER than Arnold, only that I could bench-press more.

Its a direct comparison's to Arnold's BENCH PRESS marks. Just as this was a DIRECT comparison to Elway's arm. Thats NOT the same thing as comparing himself to Elway simply because its using Elway's arm strength as a bench mark.. in which, Cutler was asked DIRECTLY about.

So again... yes he said his arm was stronger than Elway's... I don't get the big deal.....as it was in no way suggesting he was a better QB because of it. I don't care if a guy thinks/says/believes his arm is stronger.

Northman
10-10-2009, 12:02 PM
So again... yes he said his arm was stronger than Elway's... I don't get the big deal.....as it was in no way suggesting he was a better QB because of it. I don't care if a guy thinks/says/believes his arm is stronger.

I guess i could agree since that comment was hardly something i worried about the most. Jay says a lot of things that i can only laugh at and that was only one of them.

Lonestar
10-10-2009, 12:20 PM
The really sad thing about a lot of this is the unfair criticisms for Orton just because he isnt a John Elway or top tier QB.

I mean, here is a guy who didnt ask to be traded and when it happened he took it in stride and is being the consumate team player. He goes out every week just doing what is asked of him yet some people will only complain because he doesnt put up big numbers or doesnt have a pretty pass. Yea, eventually his shortcomings might cost us some games but did we really think we were winning the SB this year? I didnt. And im not sure if Kyle will be the longterm answer but for now ill gladly take a guy who isnt crying to the media or comparing himself to past HOF Qb's. Instead, we have a guy who is humble and appreciative that he can play in the NFL and shows he wants to win and is doing everything within his power to help achieve that for the team and fans.



you nailed it on this one..
he did not ask to be involved was happy in chicago and the players were happy with him..
he came to a team that was in total shambles worst defense in the league.
melted down for a playoff berth on both sides to the LOS
a completely new offense for everyone BUT Josh and Gaffney
including the coaches that are supposed to teach it..
a #1 WR that did not grace the practice field till TC and then got suspended because he proved to everyone he did not want to be here..

while Josh was be nice about it, does anyone really think Marshall really knows the full playbook yet?

folks the facts are they have had 4 games at real NFL speed, anyone that really thinks they can get all the timing and route running precision that this Scheme requires in 4 games is sadly asking for more than can happen..

IF we do not see more connections made by mid season after the BYE week then perhaps Y'all have something to whine about..

before the season started the KO haters non stop whined about losing Jay, now that we are 4-0 all they have to whine about is nit picking stuff. like him only being 18-20 (90% for those that are math challenged) in the last half of the last game against a quality opponent..

it gets old folks, especially when you really have nothing to bitch about other than jay is bear....

Ravage!!!
10-10-2009, 12:25 PM
Hmmmm.. Irony at its BEST. SOmeone telling us its 'old'... how man "Daft" comments do we have to mention.

Tned
10-11-2009, 06:44 PM
Now it's time. This is the first time he put the team 36-49 330 2 TD's (one of those incompletions was the hail mary INT at the end of the half).

That's a 107.1 QB rating if you discount the hail mary, and 96.5 including the hail mary INT.

Great job by Orton, responding when our running game was shut down.

Bronco Warrior
10-11-2009, 07:31 PM
I said if Orton threw over 300 yards two TDs and less than 2 pics in a game I would love up on him like a 1,000 dollar hookers! Come here Kyle sugar! Let daddy make you feel all better! LMAO!!

broncobryce
10-11-2009, 08:02 PM
Once again, a solid MISTAKE FREE game by Orton. He outplayed Tom Brady folks. (I didn't say he was better.) That is huge, and the man deserves a bottle of liquor courtesy of the haters. Go on Kyle, pick whichever bottle you want.

T.K.O.
10-11-2009, 08:07 PM
i hate to say " i told ya so".....no wait..... i LOVE to say "I TOLD YA SO !":beer::elefant::D

TXBRONC
10-11-2009, 08:08 PM
There is no denying Orton has a terrific game.

broncobryce
10-11-2009, 08:12 PM
Dogfish, can you please post that shit of Kyle raising a bottle of Jack? I think it's appropriate after this win.:beer:

Watchthemiddle
10-11-2009, 08:14 PM
Orton sees the big picture and thus why he is OUR QB and 5-0.

topscribe
10-11-2009, 08:25 PM
This pass was about 65 yards in the air:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/new-england-patriots/09000d5d813522e1/Randy-Moss-INT

So much for "noodle-arm." :coffee:

-----

Grover
10-11-2009, 08:25 PM
I'm really happy for Kyle and the Broncos today. The glove came off of Orton's throwing hand, and he stepped up BIG with a great game. Our defense played well and held them to zero points in the second half, overcoming two huge and painful mistakes by the special teams. But this win belongs to the Offense and Prater. Orton didn't make any huge/dumb mistakes (cough Cutler cough) and was zipping the ball on target all day long. Great game!

Superchop 7
10-11-2009, 08:27 PM
Orton sucks......period.

broncobryce
10-11-2009, 08:29 PM
Orton sucks......period.

:laugh: 26-12

Bronco Warrior
10-11-2009, 08:34 PM
Heaving it with a 5 yard run up on it isn't the same as 60 yards on a rope moving in the pocket. let's not start in about arm strength and ruin the Orton love; cause we had a QB that could throw a 65 yd lazer on the run off his back foot!

topscribe
10-11-2009, 08:36 PM
Heaving it with a 5 yard run up on it isn't the same as 60 yards on a rope moving in the pocket. let's not start in about arm strength and ruin the Orton love; cause we had a QB that could throw a 65 yd lazer on the run off his back foot!

Wow. You just don't give up, do you?

Can you get yourself to leave Cutler out of a conversation about Orton?


-----

broncobryce
10-11-2009, 08:38 PM
Heaving it with a 5 yard run up on it isn't the same as 60 yards on a rope moving in the pocket. let's not start in about arm strength and ruin the Orton love; cause we had a QB that could throw a 65 yd lazer on the run off his back foot!

LMFAO....You mean Elway?

topscribe
10-11-2009, 08:39 PM
LMFAO....You mean Elway?

Nah. He means the QB with a stronger arm than Elway . . .

-----

broncobryce
10-11-2009, 08:40 PM
That Royal pass should have been a touchdown too, that was PI!!

horsepig
10-11-2009, 08:50 PM
I am extremely pleased with Orton's play. You don't get to this level with a "noodle".

The guy right now is exactly what Reeves wanted Elway to be.

Bronco Warrior
10-11-2009, 08:54 PM
Wow. You just don't give up, do you?

JR has a travel agency. I'm sure he can get a relatively inexpensive one-way ticket to Chicago for you . . . :tsk:

-----

Hey Orton played balls out and I have eaten my crow on about 5 threads including my Crow Cafe'..just tring to say that Orton throwing a hailmary doesn't mean he has a strong arm..it was just that a heave with a 5 yard running start and clearly said not to get into cause it would turn out like this. so who isn't giving up?:tsk:

Bronco Warrior
10-11-2009, 08:56 PM
I am extremely pleased with Orton's play. You don't get to this level with a "noodle".

The guy right now is exactly what Reeves wanted Elway to be.

He definately showed more zip and better mechanics every day! Never will have the rocket arm no matter what the Crushes hope it to be so, BUTTTTTTTTT he didn't miss wide open receivers as he had all season! Props to Orton! AWESOME GAME!!!

topscribe
10-11-2009, 08:58 PM
Hey Orton played balls out and I have eaten my crow on about 5 threads including my Crow Cafe'..just tring to say that Orton throwing a hailmary doesn't mean he has a strong arm..it was just that a heave with a 5 yard running start and clearly said not to get into cause it would turn out like this. so who isn't giving up?:tsk:

Why don't you just ignore my posts? You just like pissing matches too much.

Better yet, I will ignore yours . . . :coffee:

-----

Watchthemiddle
10-11-2009, 09:13 PM
Hey Kyle, we need a 90 yard drive and a TD. Done. Now we need a 98 yarder and a TD. Done. Now we need a game winning OT drive. Done!

KO on halftime of Sunday night game.

girler
10-11-2009, 09:21 PM
I am ready show Orton some love. As soon as he shows up here, I'll show him everything I got. ;) He can decide if I wear the striped socks or not. :D

Bronco Warrior
10-11-2009, 09:24 PM
Why don't you just ignore my posts? You just like pissing matches too much.

Better yet, I will ignore yours . . . :coffee:

-----

Cool! Since I'm not the one that starts the stuff :tsk: and it will definately be your loss not mine ;)

Day1BroncoFan
10-11-2009, 10:03 PM
Orton has done what he needed to do. He was on target and congratulations on a fantastic game to him.

Glove no glove, way different.

:salute:

I'm just sad he got the hail mary int to end his streak.

Great game Kyle.

broncobryce
10-11-2009, 10:08 PM
The guy was brilliant. The corner blitz from his left when he rolled right and hit Royal for a 1st down? Awesome. When he was backpedaling and hit Royal with a laser for another first in crunch time? F'n spectacular. You can't deny either one. That shit was phenomenal play by the QB. Give the man credit. Oh wait, I guess you are.:salute:

horsepig
10-11-2009, 10:30 PM
Just how in the He double hackey sticks can anybody criticize Homer, I mean Orton for this performance/

j3phr3y
10-11-2009, 10:40 PM
Interesting stat from ESPN
Orton vs. 5 or more pass rushers this week:
Cmp-Att 13-17
Yds/att 7.2
TD-Int 2-0
Passer rating 134.9

Lonestar
10-11-2009, 10:42 PM
Interesting stat from ESPN
Orton vs. 5 or more pass rushers this week:
Cmp-Att 13-17
Yds/att 7.2
TD-Int 2-0
Passer rating 134.9

wow..

just wow

Bronco Warrior
10-11-2009, 10:43 PM
That's impressive! Great blitz pick up too obviousl!!

T.K.O.
10-12-2009, 12:46 PM
orton's only pick being a "gimme"....basically a hail mary or a punt>
it shows that he was willing to sacrifice his unblemished int. #s for a shot....another selfless move by the guy who now has a 97+ passer rating and 7 tds to go with his undefeated status as a bronco and an amazing 18-2 home record as a starter.
he may not set any td records this year but he is on pace for 22-26 td's and maybe 4-8 picks.....its looking more and more like we got the deal of a lifetime for ....whats his name!
and that 98 yard drive....well,lets just say he proved you dont need a cannon arm to put together a bigtime drive !:beer:

Bronco Warrior
10-12-2009, 01:06 PM
and that 98 yard drive....well,lets just say he proved you dont need a cannon arm to put together a bigtime drive !:beer:

Can't argue with that :woot: but it helps :rofl:

Even with a Red Ryder BB gun you can still shoot somebody's eye out!

topscribe
10-12-2009, 03:10 PM
orton's only pick being a "gimme"....basically a hail mary or a punt>
it shows that he was willing to sacrifice his unblemished int. #s for a shot....another selfless move by the guy who now has a 97+ passer rating and 7 tds to go with his undefeated status as a bronco and an amazing 18-2 home record as a starter.
he may not set any td records this year but he is on pace for 22-26 td's and maybe 4-8 picks.....its looking more and more like we got the deal of a lifetime for ....whats his name!
and that 98 yard drive....well,lets just say he proved you dont need a cannon arm to put together a bigtime drive !:beer:

How true. Montana, Brady, and Peyton Manning all have proved that. Kurt
Warner is in the conversation as a possible HOF, and he doesn't have a cannon
arm. Even Drew Brees and Philip Rivers don't have the Elway/Favre/Cutler type
of arms, but they do all right.

Now, Orton has done it three times in the last two years: a 97-yarder last
year, and now 95- and 98-yarders this year.

But it helps not to have a weak arm. From Orton's 74-yard throw in high
school and the 65-yarder yesterday, and the velocity we witnessed in some
of his throws, we now know he doesn't have that, either, don't we?

-----

T.K.O.
10-12-2009, 05:02 PM
How true. Montana, Brady, and Peyton Manning all have proved that. Kurt
Warner is in the conversation as a possible HOF, and he doesn't have a cannon
arm. Even Drew Brees and Philip Rivers don't have the Elway/Favre/Cutler type
of arms, but they do all right.

Now, Orton has done it three times in the last two years: a 97-yarder last
year, and now 95- and 98-yarders this year.

But it helps not to have a weak arm. From Orton's 74-yard throw in high
school and the 65-yarder yesterday, and the velocity we witnessed in some
of his throws, we now know he doesn't have that, either, don't we?

-----

preaching to the choir,brother !
i have spent alot of time over the past 5 months telling people orton is not "noodle arm"
he was actually said to have one of the stronger arms coming out of college.
at any rate hi can definately get the ball there...he just has to improve his ability to know where "there " is and he can be a top qb.....(i mean consistantly for those who were about to say he already is)
i have been rooting for orton since the trade (if you could'nt tell by my username)
i was also a cutler fan but in the end i dont care that much who is at qb .....im a broncos fan and right now....a damn proud and happy one !

Bronco Warrior
10-12-2009, 05:21 PM
One Heave with a 5 yard run up that looked more like a punt in it's trajectory isn't the same as a 60 yarder that could actually has a chance to hit a receiver on target! I can heave a 70 yard bomb but I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it over about 35 with authority..maybe that's why I played DB not QB! Functional arm strength is a whole different animal. ORton played great and his mechanics seem to be getting better under Josh but he is still not a guy with anything close to a "Strong" arm!

Bronco Warrior
10-12-2009, 05:23 PM
For the record Peyton does have a gun! And Brees has more than his share of arm strength!

Lonestar
10-12-2009, 05:26 PM
One Heave with a 5 yard run up that looked more like a punt in it's trajectory isn't the same as a 60 yarder that could actually has a chance to hit a receiver on target! I can heave a 70 yard bomb but I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it over about 35 with authority..maybe that's why I played DB not QB! Functional arm strength is a whole different animal. ORton played great and his mechanics seem to be getting better under Josh but he is still not a guy with anything close to a "Strong" arm!

I guess that you have not figured it out yet we do not have to have a rocket arm to be 5-0. that consistent play is needed more than forcing the ball into tight spots..

I could care less if he can throw it more than 30 yardsDONWfield with authority.. I jsut like the 65+% in the second half when it counts..

I will quote someone else..


Now tell me Orton can't win games for us.
Just heard an interesting stat about Kyle in the 4th quarter this year.

QB rating of over 130

25 of 36 passing.

3 TD's no int's

Has thrown for over 400 yards.

Now tell me he can't win games for us.

he so far is a winner.. I'll be happy with that..

T.K.O.
10-12-2009, 05:31 PM
QB KYLE ORTON
On what gave him confidence to direct the game-tying and game-winning drives

"I just looked across the huddle to see the guys in the huddle with me: great offensive line, great talent at wide receiver, great tight ends, great running backs. If we execute and play the way that we should, it should be tough to stop us."

On his performance

"I am happy that we won, and (my performance) was a great part of it. I feel like I played well. You beat a team like New England, a good team like this, it takes all 53 guys in the locker room and it takes all 60 minutes of the game to do it. Coming in down 10 points at halftime, we had had some drives that stalled: fumble, missed field goal, some missed opportunities. To rally and battle back the way we did in the second half is a testament to all the guys in the locker room, for sure."

On his joke to the offense before the 98-yard touchdown drive

"I think the drive before when we went 98 yards, we had gone 95 (the previous drive), so I just looked over to people and said, ‘We have already done 95, so we might as well go do 98.' Those are two big-time drives in the second half. Then the drive in overtime was great, and (K Matt) Prater nailed a great kick."

On not wearing a glove on his throwing hand during the game after wearing one the first four weeks of the season

"I am so happy to be done with it and have all that stuff behind me. I was able to throw the ball with a lot of confidence and throw the way that I wanted it. It was great."
On WR Brandon Marshall's touchdown to end the 98-yard touchdown drive

"We knew that he had one-on-one coverage on the backside, and we figured that (New England's cornerback) had to respect his vertical, the fade. We thought that he could get off, so I was going to come back and get the ball to him as quick as possible. The corner didn't really have a lot of help at all for the tackle, and we thought that we would have a good chance to catch and run. That is exactly what we got, and he made a great move after the catch and scored."


On his completion to WR Jabar Gaffney off of a deflection

"That was a little lucky. You need a little luck in a game like this. Jabar made a heck of a play. I saw him going up, and I thought he was going to try to bat it down and he made the catch for the first down. It was great. I don't know how it got tipped. I thought we had a completion. We got a little lucky."

On Marshall knocking down a pass that was deflected at the line of scrimmage

"That was very smart. Like I said, when you play a good football team like New England, it is always good if you can get a couple bounces."

On if it seems as if the issues with Marshall happened a long time ago

"It does because we worked so hard throughout the week. We have worked so hard since we have been here that it seems like a million years ago since I got traded and came to Denver. We have got a long way to go. We have got a lot of improving to do. Just like last week, we were a better football team from Week 4 to Week 5, and hopefully, we will put the work in Wednesday, Thursday and Friday and be better from (Week) 5 to (Week) 6."

On what the win meant to Head Coach Josh McDaniels

"I am sure it meant a little something extra to him. How could it not? He has been around that team for a long time and had a lot of good years with them and did a lot of incredible things. To be able to beat them at home and establish home field (advantage) like we have-the fans were great. We have got a good thing going right now."

On New England QB Tom Brady's complements of his play

"I appreciate that. I certainly don't put myself in his class. He is probably the best quarterback to ever play this game. He has got the rings to show it. I have spent a lot of time watching Tom on film since I have been here. If I can just get my game to a fraction of where he is at, I will be a pretty good player."

On beating Brady

"I didn't beat him. Our team beat the New England Patriots. I didn't beat him. That is just how it goes."
On WR Eddie Royal's game

"I was real happy for Eddie. He has worked extremely hard. I don't know the reason why we weren't able to get him the ball the first three or four games. We knew it was coming. He continued to grind and work and run his routes hard. It was great to see Eddie have such a good game."

On winning at home

"It means a lot because it was such a big game for us. I look at home games as must win. I don't care who you play. In this league, I feel you have got to go 9-0 or 8-1 (at home) if you are going to make the playoffs. Playing at home, our fans have been so great and the electricity in the stadium was so great that you know we just had to have it. When we got (the ball) in overtime, we had to win. There was no question about it."

On running the Wildcat formation

"New England is the type of team that they are just going to give you a different look every single time. We thought that we could kind of settle them down just a little bit and get them into some looks that we could tell what was going on. It worked for the most part. We were able to get some-we liked to do it on first down and keep us in phase and get some completions and get the chains moving. It worked for the most part. They did a nice job of adjusting to it later on in the game, so we kind of got away from it."

On the possibility of receiving a pass out of the Wildcat formation

"I will catch it. I don't know how far I could run. I will catch it for sure."

On what Marshall does to a defense

"It has got to be tough for the opposing defense to try to focus on one guy. You can double Brandon and leave Eddie (Royal) and Jabar (Gaffney) and (TE) Tony (Scheffler) and our backs. You could leave everybody one-on-one. It is tough to do. I am sure we will see some adjustments. Brandon has just played incredible games. He is such a talent. It is hard to pinpoint one guy and try to take him away because we have got everybody else that can do the same thing."

On frequently passing to Royal on third-and-short

"A lot of times he was man-to-man on the backside. We loved the matchup. He was running great routes all day and really doing a good job on his one-on-one matchups and getting open. We tried to take advantage of that as much as possible."

On RB Knowshon Moreno remaining confident after his fumble

"Nobody wants to fumble. Obviously, he doesn't want to fumble. Our offense doesn't want to fumble. We would like to play turnover free. It happens. We have to move on. He is certainly a competitor. He is going to try to make up for that fumble with some special runs."

On throwing his first interception of the season on a Hail Mary to end the first half

"That is a bad way to throw a pick, but that is alright. (We) took a chance at the end of the half."

On Offensive Coordinator Mike McCoy's influence on his game

"Mike is a good mix with (Head Coach) Josh (McDaniels) because Josh is certainly intense and sometimes can be in your face a little bit, which is good. I like that, but Mike is a very calming factor. He has been around (the game) for a long time. He has played (quarterback) and knows the position. It is always nice to have another guy that has been there and played the position at this level. (He) is kind of a calming factor as well."

On two fourth-down penalties keeping New England's fourth-quarter drive alive

"I think that was right after we went on the long drive. I think we had a chance to get the ball at the 50-yard line and had a couple of the penalties. What a great job by the defense to get back on the field, stop them again, get back on the field and stop them again and give us the ball back. I thought we were in trouble when we had a couple of those penalties because if you give that offense too many chances, they are going to make you pay. Our defense stepped up big."

On driving down the field in overtime to set up the game-winning field goal

"We all got together and said we have got to do it. It is now or never and we went on that drive."

On if McDaniels' approach to this game differed from previous games

"It was an intense week of work just because we were facing such a good football team. They create so many problems and difficulties in your preparation. It was a grind of a week for the coaches for sure and for the players. It was great to see it pay off."

On McDaniels comment that he didn't misread the defense all day

"I am going to go back and see. It certainly felt like this was the best I have seen the field and the most prepared I have been. (I was) able to take the game plan and actually execute it the best. I should, and it should be the same next week and the week after. The more I am in this system, the more comfortable I should be, along with everyone else."

On why he is more comfortable with the offense

"Offensively, we want to play well every week, but it is still a process. Everybody is learning and everybody is learning to play together. There is a new situation that comes up in each game, and we can go back and look through it. Hopefully, we will be a better offense next week than we were this week and I will be a better quarterback."

On McDaniels firing up the crowd at the end of the game

"I didn't see that. Hopefully, somebody has got it on tape."

On the offense's final drive of the first half

"We had the sack. We were there close to midfield and had the sack. That certainly hurt us, and we weren't able to go do the things that we wanted to do. When you play an offense like New England, it is also on the offense when it comes down to the last two minutes of the half to make sure that they don't get the ball back and have a chance to score on you as well. It is kind of a two-sided deal."

On the magnitude of the game at San Diego next Monday night

"Bigger than this one. No question about it. You have got to win in your division. It is going to be a tough game. They are a tough team, and (we are) going to San Diego. (It is a) Monday night (game). It is about as big as it gets. Hopefully, we can show up and play well."



its official....i like this guy better than cutler now!

honz
10-12-2009, 06:33 PM
And keep this in mind...the neck beard is still filling in week by week.

topscribe
10-12-2009, 07:11 PM
And keep this in mind...the neck beard is still filling in week by week.

:lol: You're an idiot.

-----

T.K.O.
10-12-2009, 08:22 PM
DENVER -- It was a game that had all the Tom Brady hallmarks: a game-winning drive in overtime, accurate, clutch passing, clock-eating scoring marches, and a quarterback, exuding confidence, telling jokes in the huddle to keep his team loose.

Only it wasn't the Patriots quarterback delivering the punch lines. Surprisingly, it was Broncos quarterback Kyle Orton.





so this week he did his best brady impression....maybe next week he will pull off a convincing "elway"......

RyanC
10-13-2009, 09:56 AM
I'm believing. If Orton takes at knee right before the half, his rating is 125 in that game, and average 103.8 for the season.

Which means the top 5 QB's in the league are Payton, Eli, Drew, Brett, and then Orton. Even without changing the stat's to reflect what actually happend, he's still in the top 10.

Cutler will make some nice highlights, but I'll take the W's over the highlight anyday. Not to mention that Orton will never demand a 100M contract, and we will never have cap problems because of him. Plenty of cap space, low cost of winning, good consistant QB who can win games and never looses them, and a guy who plays, preaches and lives TEAM football?. . .this isn't how you build a SB team, this is how you build a dynasty.

Bronco Warrior
10-13-2009, 10:09 AM
FOR the reocord! I have said Orton stepped up big time this game and his mechanics are alot better...and I Love that he has us 5-0...AND that for the first time this year we won BECAUSE of his play not inspite of it! I have conceeded that you don't have to have a cannon to lead a game winning drive..just that it helps! like I said "even with a Red Rider BB gun you can still shoot someones eye out!"
Parden me if I don't sit at his feet and Worship Orton's arm strength :rofl:

Also neckbeards count for the "Sampson Effect" (all longhairs know about it ;) ) Notice Hamilton cut his hair and now he is getting manhandled, Clady cut his dreads and gave up a sack for the first time in his career! Coincidence? Keep growing that dirt squirrel under your chin Orton..I for one will stop mocking it! It might be helping his arm strength!

Lonestar
10-13-2009, 10:22 AM
I'm believing. If Orton takes at knee right before the half, his rating is 125 in that game, and average 103.8 for the season.

Which means the top 5 QB's in the league are Payton, Eli, Drew, Brett, and then Orton. Even without changing the stat's to reflect what actually happend, he's still in the top 10.

Cutler will make some nice highlights, but I'll take the W's over the highlight anyday. Not to mention that Orton will never demand a 100M contract, and we will never have cap problems because of him. Plenty of cap space, low cost of winning, good consistant QB who can win games and never looses them, and a guy who plays, preaches and lives TEAM football?. . .this isn't how you build a SB team, this is how you build a dynasty.


it was how they did it in NE and I see Josh following that model all the way..

although I think unless he has a melt down this year KO will get a nice reasonable contract to play in DEN.. he is playing way better than I suspect anyone but KO and Josh knew he could.

if we have a diva that feels they need gazillion dinaros to PLAY a game. he will be allowed to mosey on down the pike as a RFA and high tender.. if someone wants to pay them and give us a #1 and 3 pick in the next draft then so be it.. he will find players that want to play Mc Kid ball..

just like they do in NE.. most if not all of their players take Patriot discounts for the privilege of playing their for one of the best franchises.. and accumulating hardware for their hands..

RyanC
10-13-2009, 11:20 AM
Exactly.

A true leader in the modern NFL isn't just a guy who leads on the field, it's a guy who understands that if you take the pay cut, you will make it back in endorsements. I hope and expect Orton's contract after this season to make news because of how low it is relative to Rivers, Cutler (the one he will get), the Mannings, Roethlesburger, etc.

If he proves to be a leader in that respect, look for our boys to be in the hunt every year, because the McD gamble will have payed off big time. It's not just a cap thing, it's a culture of winning thing.

Look at Brady, he may not make what Rivers does on his salary, but how many more ads does he have at any given time than Rivers? 30 years from now Tom Brady will be able to make 7 figures easy as a speaker. Nobody will want to an old washed-up Jerk who never showed class and true leadership to come tell their company how to run it into the ground.

T.K.O.
10-13-2009, 11:31 AM
the funny thing is oakland is paying russell about 3/4 million $ a game to suck ass......orton is making about $ 60,000 if i guessed correctly.
thats crazy....i wonder if orton has any performance bonuses in his deal? if not he's getting ripped off!
matt cassel gets about 5 times what orton makes....:mad:

Lonestar
10-13-2009, 11:37 AM
the funny thing is oakland is paying russell about 3/4 million $ a game to suck ass......orton is making about $ 60,000 if i guessed correctly.
thats crazy....i wonder if orton has any performance bonuses in his deal? if not he's getting ripped off!
matt cassel gets about 5 times what orton makes....:mad:


I suspect he does have some performance stuff in his OLD BEARS contract.. but it will not give him what he will get as a FA.. Although under the current rules he may be a RFA.. not sure on that..

If he continues to improve this year and is in the top TEN in most stats. there is little doubt in my mind that Josh will give him a new good to great contract.. not top 5 money but really good money.. I believe that KO will give a home town "Josh Mc Daniels" discount for the privilege of playing under him..


afterall he was his savior getting him out of Chicago..

topscribe
10-13-2009, 11:48 AM
I don't know whether this has been posted. So I'll do it here. If it has, ignore it.


All hail the Horseshoe
Cold, Hard Football Facts for October 12, 2009

(Ed. note: See our stat-filled report from the CHFF Week 5 first-response team here.)

In a game-of-the-week that lived up to the hype on an otherwise abysmal Sunday for the NFL, Josh McDaniels took the blinders off the Horseshoe and watched as he paced the Broncos to a 20-17 victory over the Patriots.

OK, that’s a couple of awkward horse metaphors. But it’s no less true.

And, as the only site in America that didn’t rip the Broncos for dumping Jay Cutler in favor of Kyle Orton (he’d be the Horseshoe), we take a certain amount of gridiron glee in Denver’s 5-0 start and in its gut-check, come-from-behind victory over the seemingly unbeatable forces of Bill Belichick, Tom Brady and the Patriots.

We thought that Orton would prove his value as a game-manager this year if paired with a good defense. In fact, here are our exact words from our pre-season Iciest Issues: “If the Broncos can make big strides in improving that defense, they may find the game-manager type in Orton is a perfect match.”

The Broncos have made big strides on defense. Orton has played smart, game-manager style football (7 TD with just 1 INT in 2009). The Broncos do stand at 5-0 and, more impressively, they’re the only team in the NFL with three wins against Quality Teams. If that’s not a perfect match, we don’t know what is.

But to his credit, Orton was more than just the proverbial “game manager” against the Patriots. In fact, he was a major factor in the victory, with a career performance that should solidify him in the eyes of the pigskin public as a legit No. 1 QB. It was a victory for the Broncos. It was a victory for Orton. And, natch, it was a victory for the Cold, Hard Football Facts.

Here’s why:

The Broncos trusted Orton with the ball

Orton on Sunday posted career highs in attempts (48) and completions (35) with 330 yards (four shy of his career best), 2 TDs and 1 INT (that’s a 96.7 passer rating, for those of you keeping score at home).

More important than the physical performance, however, was the psychological one. McDaniels essentially said, “Sure, I’m a newbie NFL head coach and nobody thinks you’re any good, Kyle. And, sure, we’re playing against the most successful coach-QB combo of our time and nobody outside Denver thinks we can win. But I have faith that you can get the job done.”

Orton got the job done.

Orton came through in the clutch

The Broncos scored 13 second-half points (the Patriots scored 0) to overcome what was a 17-7 deficit at intermission.

On Denver’s game-tying drive in the fourth, it was all Orton: 10 of 12 plays were passes. He completed six for 76 yards, including an 11-yard scoring toss to Brandon Marshall.

In overtime, he made good on his first four attempts, moving the ball from his own 20 into New England territory, before a series of runs led to Matt Prater’s game-winning 41-yarder.

The Patriots never touched the ball in overtime, while Orton made the big plays late when Brady, Randy Moss, Wes Welker & Co. did not.

Orton copied the old Tom Brady playbook

Back when Brady was a Super Bowl-winning quarterback, before he became fixated on Moss and Welker, and before Patriots fans became fixated in big passing numbers, he spread the ball among his entire field of weapons better than any quarterback in the game. It wasn’t uncommon to see days when virtually every eligible guy on the team, seven, eight, nine guys, caught a pass from Brady.

Orton found six different receivers in this game, including nine pass receptions by Brady’s old teammates from the spread-it-around days, Jabar Gaffney and Daniel Graham.

Orton saw the field well. He took few chances. He consistently found the open receiver (including seven catches out of the tight end position and four receptions by rookie RB Knowshon Moreno). And he put points on the board when needed. It was a classic performance by a guy who doesn’t have the arm strength of Favre or the pedigree of Peyton, but who somehow finds ways to win the game.

He’s now a Brady-esque 26-12 (.684) as an NFL starter.

Orton overcame the doubters

About 75 percent of the pigskin public, prognosticators and “pundits” expected a New England victory.

In fact, the hackery was evident everywhere. In Eric Wilbur’s blog at Boston.com, every single “expert” except the Cold, Hard Football Facts predicted a New England victory. Old friend Pete Prisco even anticipated a two-touchdown Patriots blowout.

It was a curious phenomenon:
A look at the data, at the Cold, Hard Football Facts, revealed that Denver was a better team and a surer bet to win.
A look at the data, at the Cold, Hard Football Facts, also revealed that the Patriots were still struggling to find their groove. In fact, most “pundits” and observers admitted as much about the Patriots.
Those two pieces of evidence tell us one thing: the faith the pigskin “pundits” and public had in a New England victory was not so much a belief in the Patriots as it was a disbelief in the Broncos.

The disbelievers must believe know. They can no longer critique the schedule or the quarterback or the coach. At least for now, the Broncos are the team to beat in the AFC. They’re 5-0, like the Colts. But, unlike the Colts, the
Broncos have actually been tested this season.

* Denver is the only team in the NFL with three wins over Quality Teams
* Indy is the only team in the NFL that’s yet to face a single Quality Team

A few words on “game managers” and "luck"

When discussing Orton, it pays to keep in mind that the phrase “game manager” is not an insult in the eyes of the Cold, Hard Football Facts. The term is used derisively elsewhere. But it should not be. In fact, “game manager” is the highest form of praise. Give us a game manager over a gunslinger every day of the week.

Put most simply, humble "game managers" cause victories while big-armed "gunslingers" cause heart attacks.

Bart Starr was a game manager. Joe Montana was a game manager. Tom Brady, Denver’s victim on Sunday, was a game manager and still is when he's at his best. All three are counted by any objective measure as three of the best and most successful QBs in the history off the game.

Now, we’re not saying Orton is as good as Starr, Montana and Brady. He’s not. But you know the tools on the inter-webs. You make one comparison of unlike objects, and people extrapolate out to make the statement something it wasn’t.

All we’re saying is this: Orton is a game manager and has been successful so far, as evidenced by his aforementioned 26-12 record as a starter, no matter what the stat sheet says.

As for his status as "the Horseshoe," it's simply a reference to the fact that good fortune has seemed to follow Orton whether at Chicago or now in Denver. The fortuitous bounce of the last-second Week 1 win over Cincinnati prompted one CHFF reader to call Orton “the luckiest player in football” and, as a result, we dubbed him the Horseshoe.

(Yes, we realize it will cause confusion when the Horseshoe heads to Indy to face the Horseshoes on Dec. 13 ... kind of like when the Saskatchewan Roughriders used to face the old Ottawa Rough Riders in the imagination-challenged CFL).

In any case, lucky quarterbacks don't win consistently in the NFL. They might win once. But not every week.

When the ball bounces your way time and again, however, as it has many times for Orton, there’s something more to it. The trend becomes a part of who you are.

And right now, Orton is not just lucky. He's playing extremely well as the legit leader of the most battle-tested 5-0 team in football.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2892_All_hail_the_Horseshoe.html

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T.K.O.
10-13-2009, 11:48 AM
ORTON IS UP FOR FED EX AIR player of the week at nfl.com......GO VOTE !:salute:

topscribe
10-13-2009, 11:53 AM
ORTON IS UP FOR FED EX AIR player of the week at nfl.com......GO VOTE !:salute:

Here is the link (http://www.nfl.com/partner?partnerType=players-air-and-ground&season=2009&seasonType=REG&week=5).

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Lonestar
10-13-2009, 12:14 PM
Here is the link (http://www.nfl.com/partner?partnerType=players-air-and-ground&season=2009&seasonType=REG&week=5).

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well since he is up against manning, that was a lost vote.:mad:

but a vote none the less.

T.K.O.
10-13-2009, 12:25 PM
well since he is up against manning, that was a lost vote.:mad:

but a vote none the less.

thats why i voted 3 times.....:D

Lonestar
10-13-2009, 12:48 PM
thats why i voted 3 times.....:D

I just figured out I could vote more than once and redid it 6 more times..

but then some jackass in INDY will vote 28 times for his QB..


be sure to vote and vote often folks we need to get this kid some love..