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TXBRONC
12-17-2007, 09:29 PM
I have heard it meantioned in here that some thought Walker might be gone. According to this report by Rasizer that may not be the case.

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=319425

Broncos Team Report
Posted: December 16, 2007
Lee Rasizer
For Sporting News

PERSONNEL ANALYSIS

WR Javon Walker is scheduled to take up more than $7 million in salary cap room next season and also is due a pricey offseason option bonus. But cutting him may be cost-prohibitive to the Broncos, who would wind up with a lot of "dead money" on their 2008 cap. Walker, who's coming off knee surgery, insists he'll be 100 percent next season and that he shouldn't have to rework his contract .since he was injured. A healthy Walker, Brandon Marshall and Brandon Stokley would form a dangerous outside trio. Walker's ability to get deep opens up the field for the other two wideouts underneath. Like Marshall, Walker is a threat after the catch. ...

WLB Ian Gold's knee injury could give Jamie Winborn an opportunity to show if he's a long-term option. Winborn signed late and spent his first couple months learning all three linebacking spots in a defense that changed after his arrival. The team liked Winborn enough to give him a two-year contract extension. The play at outside linebacker has been consistently subpar this season, so Winborn will be closely scrutinized. He has the speed the Broncos want at the position.

SCOUTING REPORT

CB Dre' Bly is a gambling playmaker, and teams use that aggressiveness against him by employing double moves. But Bly also can turn and run extremely well and has good recovery speed. He has stuck his nose in the running game more often than expected. Though inconsistent pressure by the front four has affected Bly's overall production in the passing game, he can cover a team's best receiver; that allows the Broncos to keep fellow CB Champ Bailey on the same side of the field at all times.

2008 BREAKOUT PLAYER

DE Jarvis Moss' rookie year was doomed almost from the start. He suffered a knee injury in August, and that seemed to dull the quickness he showed early in camp. He later suffered a broken ankle which ended his season. Moss honed his run-stopping skills enough to become more of an early-down end than a pass-rushing specialist. With the Broncos in desperate need of productive linemen, Moss could grow into a solid pass-rushing bookend to E Elvis Dumervil if his rehabilitation goes smoothly and he can go full-bore in the off-season conditioning program.

Stand Ablaze
12-17-2007, 10:00 PM
Thanks for the info. :salute:

I really do hope that Walker can be 100 percent next year. I also want to see more of Jarvis next year, he looks like he has potential to be a big pass rusher and a run stopper.

And my goodness, could you imagine how good our corners could be if the front four could stop the run and put constant pressure on the QB?

Krugan
12-17-2007, 10:58 PM
Thats the issue though. It will take mega bucks or some very serious luck in the draft to fix the front SEVEN.

Its not just the front 4 that is the problem, its the LB'ers as well.

To much to fix with to little to play with. One of those big contracts on offense is going to have to be cut back.

Nothing against Walker, but I dont see that he has even come within yards of his pay scale.

Claiming he shouldnt take a paycut due to injury comes off to me that there is already been talks withing the orginization about his pay.

And a good thing that is.

Lonestar
12-18-2007, 12:05 AM
Thats the issue though. It will take mega bucks or some very serious luck in the draft to fix the front SEVEN.

Its not just the front 4 that is the problem, its the LB'ers as well.

To much to fix with to little to play with. One of those big contracts on offense is going to have to be cut back.

Nothing against Walker, but I dont see that he has even come within yards of his pay scale.

Claiming he shouldnt take a paycut due to injury comes off to me that there is already been talks withing the orginization about his pay.

And a good thing that is.

Actually it is ONE LB that is the problem and we might already have the piece in place in the new guy..

As for DL we are on player at DT away from being pretty damned solid IF the other pieces comeback healthy.. Moss and Ekuban We lack the one biggie DT that eats blockers..

and some depth there but if we have biggie DT or Thomas on the DL with each other or rotate the backup in to spell them and do not have injuries up the kazoo like this year we have a real solid base DL for a decade ore more IF mikey is smart en ought to sign them before they get away.. They will have to redraft from time to time to keep some youth in there...

Stargazer
12-18-2007, 02:03 AM
I have heard it meantioned in here that some thought Walker might be gone. According to this report by Rasizer that may not be the case.



Dead money or not in '08, Walker definately is 50/50 in returning to the Broncos. This all depends on whether the Broncos will pay the bonus. If not, they cut him & dead money is on the books for '08. Walker insist he'll be 100% for 2008? I don't blame him for saying that. He wants that roster bonus & salary for '08. If Denver cuts him, they avoid the bonus & have to deal with the dead money in '08. It can & possibly will happen.

Skinny
12-18-2007, 07:41 AM
If i'm Mikey i take no chances on Walkers injury. We just don't know, if Walker does come back, that he's even going able to play 100% healthy for 16 games. If you don't, your handcuffing the strength of this team ... the Offense.

As Barney Fife says ... 'Nip it in the Bud!'

Dean
12-18-2007, 07:55 AM
If i'm Mikey i take no chances on Walkers injury. We just don't know, if Walker does come back, that he's even going able to play 100% healthy for 16 games. If you don't, your handcuffing the strength of this team ... the Offense.

As Barney Fife says ... 'Nip it in the Bud!'

You don't see Barney Fife quoted much in respect to football. . .or in regards to much of anything else. ;) We are showing our age.

TXBRONC
12-18-2007, 08:18 AM
Thats the issue though. It will take mega bucks or some very serious luck in the draft to fix the front SEVEN.

Its not just the front 4 that is the problem, its the LB'ers as well.

To much to fix with to little to play with. One of those big contracts on offense is going to have to be cut back.

Nothing against Walker, but I dont see that he has even come within yards of his pay scale.

Claiming he shouldnt take a paycut due to injury comes off to me that there is already been talks withing the orginization about his pay.

And a good thing that is.

I don't think the entire front seven is broke. McKinley has proven to be a solid player, Peterson seems to be doing ok and Thomas is really starting to come along. At this point it looks like we will need at least one new defenisve tackle, a linebacker or two and some youth in the secondary to go along with Abdullhah.

Krugan
12-18-2007, 08:27 AM
Actually it is ONE LB that is the problem and we might already have the piece in place in the new guy..

As for DL we are on player at DT away from being pretty damned solid IF the other pieces comeback healthy.. Moss and Ekuban We lack the one biggie DT that eats blockers..

and some depth there but if we have biggie DT or Thomas on the DL with each other or rotate the backup in to spell them and do not have injuries up the kazoo like this year we have a real solid base DL for a decade ore more IF mikey is smart en ought to sign them before they get away.. They will have to redraft from time to time to keep some youth in there...

Well, in my eyes, its more than one LB. Webster is a decent energy guy, but is not a starter. Gold is past his prime, or at least he seems to have lost what he had from years ago. DJ is a solid player and has potential,but not as a MLB.

If your hanging your hat on Winborn, well I see speed and special teams, but he got beat like the dead horse that played Thursday, in his coverage.

Your also assuming that the 3 rookies on the line are going to mold into something. Its possible we might have found something good in this last draft, but that book is still far from written. Ekuban may or may not be able to return and fill a need, im not counting on him to be a savior, although I do believe he would have had an impact, even a minor one, on this years team had he been healthy.

Its just a different view point, I dont see this defense as having enough talent.

Tned
12-18-2007, 08:31 AM
I have heard it meantioned in here that some thought Walker might be gone. According to this report by Rasizer that may not be the case.


I think Shanahan has struggled enough in his 13 odd years in Denver putting two very good wide receivers on the field, and has never had three. Considering Marshal's emergence and Stokley proving there is gas left in the tank, if they believe Walker's knee won't be a chronic problem, I think he would love to have a one-two punch of Walker and Marshall, with Stokely the best number 3 WR that Shanny has had while in Denver. Add Scheffler, and it would likely be the best 4 receiver (3 WR + TE) group he has ever had in Denver. Individually, Scheffler isn't as great as Sharpe, but as a group, being able to run 3 WR + TE formations, the Broncos have been struggling for quite a few years now to even field two quality receiving options.

Mike
12-18-2007, 09:12 AM
Individually, Scheffler isn't as great as Sharpe, but as a group, being able to run 3 WR + TE formations, the Broncos have been struggling for quite a few years now to even field two quality receiving options.

Provided they fix the o-line enough to pass protect for the formation. No matter how good the WR/TE are without good pass protection none of it matters. I have said it and will keep saying it. Your lines are the heart of the team.

IMO both the o-line and d-line have to be a priority be it FA or draft. LB and safety after that.

underrated29
12-18-2007, 12:34 PM
I HAVE been saying it for a while, we will not cut walker. he will be here next year unless we trade him. And if we trade him it will be for something VERY VERY GOOD!!

Why would you cut the guy? You still have to eat his cap, but he wont be playing for you. On top of that he is a top 10 wr when healthy. On top of that we traded a 2nd rd pick for him, why would we waste it for 1 year rental? On top of that Healthy or not, you would take the chance that he can come back healthy since you are going to be paying him anyways. On top of that, his value is not as high right now, so cutting/trading is just not a good idea.


I think we need 3-4 good players on the front defensive 7. I would like 1-2 dt's. One rookie pimp, and another rookie pimp or a solid vet, but nothing major, jsut solid. THen we can get a pimp rookie lb, and another mid round pick lb with some upside. IF we can stop the run, the rest of the defense will be playing better. It like running on one leg, we are ok, but not very fast. IF we can stop the run, we will have our 2 legs back and can run a WHOLE lot faster, even if we arent the fastest yet.

silkamilkamonico
12-18-2007, 12:51 PM
DJ is a solid player and has potential,but not as a MLB.

DJ has acclimated to the MIKE position nicely, and is now a leader among tackle in the NFL, and that's with him not getting any help whatsoever from the responsibilities of the DT's. DJ has played all LB positions in the NFL, and the organization can't seriously expect to throw him around to different positions and be a Pro Bowl type player.

If he is a problem, then Denver has major problems. We don't have the cap to fix the front 7 via free agency, and that's with players restructuring. Their only other option would be to blow it up, and i think the first place to start would be Champ Bailey and Dre Bly. They make an awful lot of money for playing a non-impact position, or a position that's dictated by the play of another, in their case the front 7.

Lonestar
12-18-2007, 01:22 PM
Well, in my eyes, its more than one LB. Webster is a decent energy guy, but is not a starter. Gold is past his prime, or at least he seems to have lost what he had from years ago. DJ is a solid player and has potential,but not as a MLB.

If your hanging your hat on Winborn, well I see speed and special teams, but he got beat like the dead horse that played Thursday, in his coverage.

Your also assuming that the 3 rookies on the line are going to mold into something. Its possible we might have found something good in this last draft, but that book is still far from written. Ekuban may or may not be able to return and fill a need, I'm not counting on him to be a savior, although I do believe he would have had an impact, even a minor one, on this years team had he been healthy.

Its just a different view point, I don't see this defense as having enough talent.


Let me try this again the last one disappeared from my screen..

MY contention is that the DL fixed with ONE really top notch First day DT coupled with the base DL we drafted last two years, will give this team a superb DLine for a decade or more with prudent drafting of replacements or upgrades for other non drafted DL guys currently on the roster..

We would need ONE drafted or FA (UNLIKELY because great DTs are rarely allowed to leave their current teams) DT and one more rotational guy to be coupled with Thomas to anchor the middle.. Perhaps one more for Development purposes and Emergency replacements.

LB is set with DJ at the MLB spot he will grow into it after a good learning season not only learning the position but making calls. He is a better tackler than Al Wilson was the past few years if not ever.. Al like to lay the wood but often the good runners would bounce off and gain more yardage after his hits..

DJ needs to spend the Off season in the film room and working with an Al Wilson type to finish off his learning the job. 139 tackle so far this year lead the team by over 50/ Not exactly what you are looking for from a kid that has been thrown to the wolves learning a new spot calling plays a behind a horrendous DLINE.

Gold is loser that IMO should have never been resigned especially at the price he got.. He has never been able to shed blockers.. EVER his forte was chasing down from behind and either making the tackle or forcing them out of bounds..

Winborn IMO has be brought in to take his spot.

The SAM spot can be a draftee but we do not need to spend a top pick on it as shown by placing DJ there the past two years it WAS a waste of talent..

I'm not saying it is not important but it is the least important of the three spots..

Having Ekuban back would be icing on the cake a seasoned VET to help the newbies but if he is not back there are plenty of other other in the multitude of DEs we already have on the squad should be sufficient to back up Engelberger (while not a hotshot is steady) Moss, Crowder and Dumervil with McKinney and Thomas as valuable DT's a rookie could come in a play alot.

Fixing the DLine should be priority one as most knowledgeable folks know that the games are most often won or lost on the LOS..

It matters not having two great CB's if they are going to have to cover forever.. they are not able to chuck the WR at the LOS or inside 5 yards of the LOS to disrupt timing patterns.. They have to play run first and pass second and we have all seen Champ and more so Bly burnt because of double moves..

having control of the LOS means Lynch can play the middle of the field not as a 4th LB. Once the WR and Te have fear of going over the middle again fewer passes will be caught there..A lot more short armed attempts made there with the ball falling to the turf or tipped for picks..

TO sum it up fix the DL and almost everything else falls into line and everyone looks better..

Lonestar
12-18-2007, 01:32 PM
Provided they fix the o-line enough to pass protect for the formation. No matter how good the WR/TE are without good pass protection none of it matters. I have said it and will keep saying it. Your lines are the heart of the team.

IMO both the o-line and d-line have to be a priority be it FA or draft. LB and safety after that.


Overall It think your correct.

But unless mikey make a wholesale shift to a true Pass blocking OLINE look for piecemeal fixes there for ever..

He has been totally wedded to the smaller faster smarter OLINE type and he would have to spend top picks for at least the next three drafts to re-do the OLINE. I think even you will admit that..

Top quality OLT are at a premium as either rookies or especially FA's...

I have advocated for a long time since at least before foster was DAFTED that this OLINE needs to get huge Or at least they need to go JUMBO inside the 5 really red zone.. The defenses KNOW we are not gonna run the ball inside th 5 this team is way to finesse to do so.

Lonestar
12-18-2007, 01:35 PM
I HAVE been saying it for a while, we will not cut walker. he will be here next year unless we trade him. And if we trade him it will be for something VERY VERY GOOD!!

Why would you cut the guy? You still have to eat his cap, but he wont be playing for you. On top of that he is a top 10 WR when healthy. On top of that we traded a 2nd rd pick for him, why would we waste it for 1 year rental? On top of that Healthy or not, you would take the chance that he can come back healthy since you are going to be paying him anyways. On top of that, his value is not as high right now, so cutting/trading is just not a good idea.


I think we need 3-4 good players on the front defensive 7. I would like 1-2 DT's. One rookie pimp, and another rookie pimp or a solid vet, but nothing major, just solid. Then we can get a pimp rookie lb, and another mid round pick lb with some upside. IF we can stop the run, the rest of the defense will be playing better. It like running on one leg, we are OK, but not very fast. IF we can stop the run, we will have our 2 legs back and can run a WHOLE lot faster, even if we aren't the fastest yet.


Topscribe is that you?

anyway that is top post

Tned
12-18-2007, 07:11 PM
Provided they fix the o-line enough to pass protect for the formation. No matter how good the WR/TE are without good pass protection none of it matters. I have said it and will keep saying it. Your lines are the heart of the team.

IMO both the o-line and d-line have to be a priority be it FA or draft. LB and safety after that.

This is a very good point. Currently, we barely have a good enough line for the misdirection/playaction/bootleg offense, when you add a lot of shotgun and spread formations, the line simply can't protect Cutler.