What to do about defensive tackle?

[lex]

I spent a lot of time watching Dre Moore this year but Ive kind of switched gears on how to address defensive tackle. Ive kind of become a proponent of signing someone like corey williams. To add some veteran players with the youth we currently have. After going through a season where Dumervil, Crowder, Moss, and Thomas were all on a learning curve, and after down year, Id rather go FA. How do you think we should address this position that most would agree is a clear need?

[DenBronx]

i say draft one....i dont know im on the fence. they say this year is pretty deep at dt...so maybe go after one in the first...but then again look at the really good dlines in the nfl...there all built through the draft.

[dogfish]

ideally i'd say both, but i'll be pretty happy either way, as long as we take steps to address the position with some ACTUAL talent. . . corey williams is at the top of my wish list-- if we got him, i'd be perfectly satisfied to spend our two 1st day picks on an OT and a LB, and maybe look for a big-bodied run stuffer early on the 2nd day. . . but i'd also be entirely happy to see us draft a DT high, as well. . .

[Lonestar]

While getting a proven vet, unlike warren or kennedy via FA would be the best bet. The likelihood of a good team, to allow their talent to wander off are slim to none. The vast majority of teams do not let this happen. Unless they have a severe cap issue or they know something about the player. They generally bite the bullet and either match the money or resign them before allowing them out in the market place..

There is a real premium on really good DT's and as DenBronx said almost all the good DLs are built via the draft.

Unless mikey switches gear and decides to go jumbo on the OLINE, which would mean that we would have to invest day one drafts every year for the next 4-5 years to rebuild that area. I think he will continue to use other teams rejects and low draft choices to keep our OLINE fresh.

The only other major area of need in the off season is WLB and someone to replace John Lynch in the future.

Perhaps biggie DT #1, LB #2 and then FS #3 or 4 and then back to DT for backup players or rotational relief.

This should be another year to restock the Defense and sure we are gonna have some issues playing rookies but if they are talented enough and playing beside other newbies they will be building our future top 5 defense.

[broncosinindy]

We need to Draft a NT in the 1st or 2nd and get a veteran. that way we can do like we did with thomas this year. Basically give a guy the position where he can suceed. not fail

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Draft and sign.

[underrated29]

i agree get both.

If we get one of the top tier dt in fa, then id be willing to even get dt with pick #2 instead of 1. If its just a solid vet, but nothing spectacular then id be more in favor of taking dt with the 1st pick.

If we dont get dt in fa, then we got to go 1st pick and maybe 3rd pick. We really need help there. As if you didnt already know.;)

[Lonestar]

i agree get both.

If we get one of the top tier dt in fa, then id be willing to even get dt with pick #2 instead of 1. If its just a solid vet, but nothing spectacular then id be more in favor of taking dt with the 1st pick.

If we dont get dt in fa, then we got to go 1st pick and maybe 3rd pick. We really need help there. As if you didnt already know.;)

First of all We do not have a 3rd choice we gave that to someone last year to move up in the draft to get moss..

I'll climb on my soap box and say again.. The good teams with good to great DT do every thing in their power to re sign them.. It is a position that does not grow on trees.. Last resort is to slap a franchise tag on them.. I think Philly was the last to do that a year or so ago.
A Hanesworth or Stroud makes the defense as we have seen this year playing both team when they are out of the game their teams are ordinary..

Unless the team has pissed off one of them, like we did with warren. The players just flat rarely move around..

So that means a second tier DT if that or a Sam Adams type that is not the solution I have said this before and will repeat it often you build the base of your team via the DRAFT and fill in the weak spots via FA.. The difference in rookie contract vs FA contract to cap space is overwhelming..

I hope that mikey will do what is necessary to secure this defense via th draft and P/U a decent rotational backup in the latter part of the draft or via second tier DT in FA..

[underrated29]

i meant our 3rd pick jr, not a 3rd rd pick.

I dont think we will get a toptier fa either, for the same reason as you explained, but i do think we can find a solid player in fa. One that is better than adams, but subpar to haynes,stroud, or whoever else is out there.

[Lonestar]

i meant our 3rd pick JR, not a 3rd rd pick.

I dont think we will get a toptier fa either, for the same reason as you explained, but i do think we can find a solid player in fa. One that is better than adams, but subpar to haynes,stroud, or whoever else is out there.


OK thanks for the update..

I have to wonder however if any of the DTs that might make the "cut from other teams", so to speak would be any better than what we already have to back up Thomas?

They would not be allowed to leave if they were worth keeping.. I think the Brownco debacle kind proves that point..

[Retired_Member_001]

We could draft a defensive tackle...

But if we were to draft a defensive tackle we will have to prepare for ANOTHER poor year of run defense and another poor year of pass protection.

Rookie defensive lineman usually take a year or two to develop, which means we wouldn't see the kind of play we are hoping for, for another few years.

In my opinion we should draft an offensive tackle in the first round, there are plenty of examples of offensive tackles playing extremely well in their first year, and then we should sign a proven defensive tackle in Free Agency. Maybe Kris Jenkins will be up for trade? Maybe Albert Haynesworth will leave Tennessee (although not likely)? Maybe Corey Williams will be available.

Signing a proven defensive tackle in the prime of his playing career (26-27)will give us great play now and great play for a 4-5 more years. It will also allow us to draft our franchise left tackle.

[Lonestar]

We could draft a defensive tackle...

But if we were to draft a defensive tackle we will have to prepare for ANOTHER poor year of run defense and another poor year of pass protection.

Rookie defensive lineman usually take a year or two to develop, which means we wouldn't see the kind of play we are hoping for, for another few years.

In my opinion we should draft an offensive tackle in the first round, there are plenty of examples of offensive tackles playing extremely well in their first year, and then we should sign a proven defensive tackle in Free Agency. Maybe Kris Jenkins will be up for trade? Maybe Albert Hanesworth will leave Tennessee (although not likely)? Maybe Corey Williams will be available.

Signing a proven defensive tackle in the prime of his playing career (26-27)will give us great play now and great play for a 4-5 more years. It will also allow us to draft our franchise left tackle.


We have almost seasoned vets now at all positions on the DLine, all with almost a full year under their belts. They will all have the off season to study film and work on putting on weight (muscle). Working on technique with the coaches they will or should be better than they ended the season and it was pretty decent so far the past couple of games if you throw out HOU.

Dumervil is coming on strong as is Thomas, Crowder looks like force to be reckoned with.. Add in a couple of Older vets and getting Moss back and this lie should be pretty good IF they keep Bates and do not throw the baby with the bath water..

A top 10 choice could easily come in and play alot if not start. We are gonna draft somewhere between 9 and 15. two choices inside top 40 9/40, 10/41, 11/42, 12/43,13/44,14/45 or 15/46

here are 9-15 this year
9 Ted Ginn Jr. WR Ohio State Miami Dolphins
10 Amobi Okoye DT Louisville Houston Texans 11 Patrick Willis ILB Mississippi San Francisco 49ers
12 Marshawn Lynch RB California Buffalo Bills
13 Adam Carriker NT Nebraska St. Louis Rams
14 Darrelle Revis CB Pittsburgh New York Jets
15 Lawrence Timmons LB Florida State Pittsburgh Steelers

here are 16-22

16 Justin Harrell DT Tennessee Green Bay Packers
17 Jarvis Moss DE Florida Denver Broncos
18 Leon Hall CB Michigan Cincinnati Bengals
19 Michael Griffin FS Texas Tennessee Titans
20 Aaron Ross CB Texas New York Giants
21 Reggie Nelson FS Florida Jacksonville Jaguars
22 Brady Quinn QB Notre Dame Cleveland Browns


Here are the 40-46 choices last year.

40 John Beck QB Brigham Young Miami Dolphins
41 Chris Houston CB Arkansas Atlanta Falcons
42 Tony Ugoh T Arkansas Indianapolis Colts
43 Drew Stanton QB Michigan State Detroit Lions
44 Sidney Rice WR South Carolina Minnesota Vikings
45 Dwayne Jarrett WR USC Carolina Panthers
46 LaMarr Woodley LB Michigan Pittsburgh Steelers

47-55
47 David Harris ILB Michigan New York Jets
48 Justin Durant OLB Hampton Jacksonville Jaguars
49 Kenny Irons RB Auburn Cincinnati Bengals
50 Chris Henry RB Arizona Tennessee Titans
51 Steve Smith WR USC New York Giants
52 Brian Leonard RB Rutgers St. Louis Rams
53 Eric Wright CB Nevada-Las Vegas Cleveland Browns
54 Turk McBride DE Tennessee Kansas City Chiefs
55 Josh Wilson CB Maryland Seattle Seahawks


With this years positions of interest in red. I know that every year is different but look how the DT went 10-13-16 nada after 16..



Amobi Okoye
Tackles Interceptions Fumbles
G GS Total Solo Ast Sck SFTY PDef Int Yds Avg Lng TDs FUM Lost
14 12 30 22 8 5.5 --

Adam Carrikker
Tackles Interceptions Fumbles
G GS Total Solo Ast Sck SFTY PDef Int Yds Avg Lng TDs FUM Lost
14 14 27 18 9 2.0 1 1


Justin Harrell
Tackles Interceptions Fumbles
G GS Total Solo Ast Sck SFTY PDef Int Yds Avg Lng TDs FUM Lost
5 0 9 4 5 0.0



A big drop off in this case after 13.

Not saying this happens year after year but the likelihood of a top player coming and starting or playing a lot drops off at a certain point.

[Skinny]

Both. If it was just 1 DT and we had a high Draft pick, considering who was available at that pick, you could get a good prospect. But i think we need at the least 2 good DT's to hopefully see the improvements we would like to see at the DT position.

[Lonestar]

Both. If it was just 1 DT and we had a high Draft pick, considering who was available at that pick, you could get a good prospect. But i think we need at the least 2 good DT's to hopefully see the improvements we would like to see at the DT position.

Actually one quality SAM Adams type, when he was young would do it.. the other one would be icing on the cake and would allow for depth and rotational work.

He could be a work in progress to bring along slowly with a top notch guy next to him every plat that make a huge difference.

In fact McKinney might be good enough to grow( 20 pounds) into that backup spot. So one Biggie DT early and one later if there is one worth taking..

[dogfish]

Both. If it was just 1 DT and we had a high Draft pick, considering who was available at that pick, you could get a good prospect. But i think we need at the least 2 good DT's to hopefully see the improvements we would like to see at the DT position.

no question that's the ideal scenario, but i honestly think one GOOD DT would make a huge improvement-- especially if it's a FA with some experience who can come in and play at a high level right away. . . thomas has shown enough this year that i feel pretty confident that he's going to grow into a quality starter. . . and i think mckinley and kenny peterson are adequate as 3rd and 4th tackles in a rotation-- they're not going to blow anyone away, but rotational guys generally don't. . . i'd love to be 3 or 4 deep with talented tackles, but at this point i'll be pretty happy if we can get to 2 deep. . . might not be a bad idea to take a flier on a developmental type towards the end of the 2nd day, but i really think we have too many other holes that need filling to invest our limited resources in more than one potential starting DT. . .

we really need to find another OT and at least one good OLB this offseason as well, and those are just the most immediate needs. . . we should certainly have the money to sign one impact free agent (we'll see who we get off the books, and how creative we get with restructuring contracts), and you generally count on your 1st day picks to become solid players. . . that's three potential impact players added to the lineup unless you get a little lucky on the 2nd day of the draft-- i myself would preferably like to see DT, OT and OLB addressed with those additions. . .

[Lonestar]

no question that's the ideal scenario, but i honestly think one GOOD DT would make a huge improvement-- especially if it's a FA with some experience who can come in and play at a high level right away. . . thomas has shown enough this year that i feel pretty confident that he's going to grow into a quality starter. . . and i think mckinley and kenny peterson are adequate as 3rd and 4th tackles in a rotation-- they're not going to blow anyone away, but rotational guys generally don't. . . i'd love to be 3 or 4 deep with talented tackles, but at this point i'll be pretty happy if we can get to 2 deep. . . might not be a bad idea to take a flier on a developmental type towards the end of the 2nd day, but i really think we have too many other holes that need filling to invest our limited resources in more than one potential starting DT. . .

we really need to find another OT and at least one good OLB this offseason as well, and those are just the most immediate needs. . . we should certainly have the money to sign one impact free agent (we'll see who we get off the books, and how creative we get with restructuring contracts), and you generally count on your 1st day picks to become solid players. . . that's three potential impact players added to the lineup unless you get a little lucky on the 2nd day of the draft-- i myself would preferably like to see DT, OT and OLB addressed with those additions. . .


I agree here is a current list of 2008 contracts the base salary. We are currently about 19.7 under the cap total



DBs
Bailey, Roland CB DB 7,500,000.00
Bly, Dre' CB DB 1,000,000.00
Reid, Lamont CB DB 445,000.00
Cargile, Steve S DB 445,000.00
Lynch, John S DB 2,000,000.00

DL
Birdine, Larry DE DB 370,000.00
Carrington, Paul DE DB 445,000.00
Crowder, Tim DE DB 370,000.00
Dumervil, Elvis DE DB 445,000.00
Engelberger, John DE 1,330,000.00
Hall, Carlos DE DB 605,000.00
Mallard, Josh DE DB 520,000.00
McKinley, Alvin DE DB 1,330,000.00
Moss, Jarvis DE DB 370,000.00
Peterson, Kenny DE DB 605,000.00

Harris, Steven DT DB 370,000.00
Thomas, Marcus DT DB 370,000.00

LB
Beck, Jordan LB DB 445,000.00
Gold, Ian LB DB 2,750,000.00
Green, Louis LB DB 850,000.00
Holdman, Warrick LB 1,000,000.00
Webster, Nate LB 780,000.00
Williams, D.J. LB DB 850,000.00
Winborn, Jamie LB DB 800,000.00

OLINE
Compensation
Alexander, P.J. OL DB 605,000.00
Hamilton, Ben OL DB 2,810,000.00
Harris, Ryan OL DB 370,000.00
Holland, Montrae OL DB 900,000.00
Kuper, Chris OL DB 445,000.00
Lepsis, Matt OL DB 450,0000.00
Mustard, Chad OL DB 605,000.00
Nalen, Tom OL DB 1,900,000.00
Nienhuis, Doug OL DB 445,000.00
Snell, Isaac OL DB 445,000.00

QB
Cutler, Jay QB DB 647,500.00
Hackney, Darrell QB DB 370,000.00
Ramsey, Patrick QB DB 700,000.00

RB
Bell, Mike RB DB 445,000.00
Hall, Andre RB DB 370,000.00
Henry, Travis RB DB 730,000.00
Smith, Paul RB DB 750,000.00
Young, Selvin RB DB 370,000.00

TE
Graham, Daniel TE DB 700,000.00
Leach, Mike TE DB 730,000.00
Scheffler, Tony TE DB 445,000.00

WR
Jacobs, Taylor WR DB 605,000.00
Marshall, Brandon WR DB 445,000.00
Martinez, Glenn WR DB 445,000.00
Smith, Rod WR DB 1,500,000.00
Stokley, Brandon WR DB 830,000.00
Walker, Javon WR DB 2,100,000.00

other weasels
Ernster, Paul P/K DB 445,000.00

[DenBronx]

why is ben hamilton getting paid close to 3 million? i didnt see myers contract on their either. i thought we we 16 million under the cap for next year? i'm sure that will fluxuate a few times this offseason.

[Lonestar]

why is ben hamilton getting paid close to 3 million? i didnt see myers contract on their either. i thought we we 16 million under the cap for next year? i'm sure that will fluxuate a few times this offseason.


Becuase that is what he is supposed to earn..

I suspect that meyers may not be under contract next year..
this is what they made this year.. according to USA today
http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/playersbyposition.aspx?pos=122&order=Nickname


contract bonuses**********salary cap value
Lepsis, Matt $ 3,150,000 $ 00000 $ 200,000 $ 6,350,000 $ 5,850,000
Nalen, Tom $ 1,450,000 $ 3,000,000 $ 556,360 $ 2,006,360 $ 3,655,860
Hamilton, $ 2,750,000 $ 3,500,000 $ 150,000 $ 2,800,000 $ 3,500,000
Holland, Mon $ 595,000 $ 00000000 $ 250,000 $ 845,000 $ 1,000,000
Harris, Ryan $ 285,000 $ 805,000 $ 0000000 $ 1,090,000 $ 486,250
Myers, Chris $ 435,000 $ 0000000 $ 6,240 $ 441,240 $ 441,240
Kuper, Chris $ 360,000 $ 155,000 $ 6,360 $ 366,360 $ 405,110
Pears, Erik $ 360,000 $ 0000000 $ 6,480 $ 366,480 $ 366,480
Snell, Isaac $ 0 $ 0 $ 0 $ 254,118 $ 0
Alexander, $ 0 $ 0 $ 0 $ 360,000 $ 0


http://www.nflpa.org/Resources/ActivePlayerSearch.aspx?id=37457

UFA in 2008
Myers, Chris
View Stats at Players Inc Site
Player Info
Draft Info

OL (#)
Year: 2005

Denver Broncos
Round: 6

Miami, FL
Position: 26

Salary History

2005 230000.00
2006 350000.00
2007 435000.00

[AFGAHNI_BATTLE_DONKEY]

we need to draft one in the first round.
unless we have to reach for one dont get a DT in the first. I just think we should get the best available player in the first round unless its a CB or QB or even WR.

[Bronco9798]

We need DT's that can penetrate and cause some disruption in the backfield. I hate the gap scheme Bates deploys. I would hope he learned from the Adams debacle. Most of the DT's he persuaded Shanny to bring in were horrible. I just don't buy into his antiquated scheme. I want some athletic DT's that can sack a QB.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Pending on where we end up picking, we'd be dumb to pass on the only legit Safety in the draft in Kenny Phillips. I think DT can wait. We need to get the LB corps fixed as well and there is too much talent to pass on. There are a number of solid DT prospects that can be taken in the mid/late rounds. I'd also try to sign Corey Williams from GB or Randy Starks from Tennessee.

I want my first 3 to be Kenny Phillips, Jon Goff, MLB, Vanderbilt and Beau Bell, OLB, UNLV.

[Bronco9798]

I'd prefer to sign a decent FA or two at the DT position. We can't expect a rookie to come in and be a saviour next season. Not happening. You can't draft a rookie and expect him to be NFL ready in one season.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I'd prefer to sign a decent FA or two at the DT position. We can't expect a rookie to come in and be a saviour next season. Not happening. You can't draft a rookie and expect him to be NFL ready in one season.

where's the salute button?

[Lonestar]

where's the salute button?

Right next to the Post number, the little yellow bugger..

[Astrass]

I wouldn't mind an FA as long as he isn't over the hill. We don't need to waste our time on another has been.

[Bronco9798]

We have no choice but to sign A FA DT somewhere this off-season.

[dogfish]

I wouldn't mind an FA as long as he isn't over the hill. We don't need to waste our time on another has been.

oh c'mon. . . ted washington is out there, and keith traylor might be too. . . maybe we can get big daddy to report this year. . .


:laugh:

[broncosinindy]

First of all We do not have a 3rd choice we gave that to someone last year to move up in the draft to get moss..

I'll climb on my soap box and say again.. The good teams with good to great DT do every thing in their power to re sign them.. It is a position that does not grow on trees.. Last resort is to slap a franchise tag on them.. I think Philly was the last to do that a year or so ago.
A Hanesworth or Stroud makes the defense as we have seen this year playing both team when they are out of the game their teams are ordinary..

Unless the team has pissed off one of them, like we did with warren. The players just flat rarely move around..

So that means a second tier DT if that or a Sam Adams type that is not the solution I have said this before and will repeat it often you build the base of your team via the DRAFT and fill in the weak spots via FA.. The difference in rookie contract vs FA contract to cap space is overwhelming..

I hope that mikey will do what is necessary to secure this defense via th draft and P/U a decent rotational backup in the latter part of the draft or via second tier DT in FA..

the pick went to Minnesota for Thomas. not moss.

[Lonestar]

the pick went to Minnesota for Thomas. not moss.
thanks for your input..
we traded up to get to moss I thought it was this years 3 not sure where it went then. perhaps someone can tell us..

[Broncolingus]

Where's the "both" selection?

I don't think Denver is 'one-playa' away on either line...I think it's going to take at least two years (unless lucky) to build a quality defensive line...probably via both FA and draft.

I don't really care about perennial All-Pros (although, that’d be nice), just a group that plays well together, can plug the gaps, generate some CONSISTENT pressure on the QB, and can stand up to 60-minutes of football (and a WHOLE season) with the more physical teams in the league – oh yeah, like San Diego.

Yes, a tall order, but one you have to fill if you want to be playing for SBs…

[Lonestar]

Where's the "both" selection?

I don't think Denver is 'one-playa' away on either line...I think it's going to take at least two years (unless lucky) to build a quality defensive line...probably via both FA and draft.

I don't really care about perennial All-Pros (although, that’d be nice), just a group that plays well together, can plug the gaps, generate some CONSISTENT pressure on the QB, and can stand up to 60-minutes of football (and a WHOLE season) with the more physical teams in the league – oh yeah, like San Diego.

Yes, a tall order, but one you have to fill if you want to be playing for SBs…

With eh influx of newbies at DE this past two year and a older vet or two I think were set there for a awhile barring injuries..
Same with Thomas getting alot of playing time this year.

If they pay attention over the off season and hit th weight room hard and watch game film and work with the DL coaches this group ins gonna be OK for next year will they play at all pro levels of course not but by playoff next year they have had 15-30 games under their belt and playing to together they should be peaking..

Getting one Hanesworth TYPE DT should just about SET this group in stone, Drafting another STUD DT will make this group special over the next decade or more IF Mikey will keep them together. He will have to dedicate a TOP choice every third year or so for another stud. to keep them fresh and hungry.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Sedrick Ellis please

[CoachChaz]

Sedrick Ellis please

Most boards seem to have him going to us.
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[MHCBill]

We need bigger, stronger, more aggressive lineman on both sides of the ball.

Offense is fine with skill positions, even running back. I hope Andre Hall becomes the feature back with Selvin getting 10-12 carries a game.

We have one great linebacker and 3/4ths of a good secondary.

We need to get substantially better in the trenches. Chances are that won't happen in one year. We need to build. My opinion, Oline free agency... Dline draft.

Start drafting huge DT's that are in the 320-335 range and DE's that go 280-295. Stop the run and let Moss and Doom go after the QB on passing downs.

[DallasChief]

Do the Browns have anyone they'd trade you?

[Broncolingus]

We need bigger, stronger, more aggressive lineman on both sides of the ball.

Offense is fine with skill positions, even running back. I hope Andre Hall becomes the feature back with Selvin getting 10-12 carries a game.

We have one great linebacker and 3/4ths of a good secondary.

We need to get substantially better in the trenches. Chances are that won't happen in one year. We need to build. My opinion, Oline free agency... Dline draft.

Start drafting huge DT's that are in the 320-335 range and DE's that go 280-295. Stop the run and let Moss and Doom go after the QB on passing downs.

Ditto, keep speed and athleticism, but get the physicality back…

What about Nalen?

Yes, he’s ‘small,’ but dude is inhumanly strong…he’s an exception and he's proved he can play the physical part too.

Most ‘smaller’ linemen just aren’t like that…

[Rex]

We need bigger, stronger, more aggressive lineman on both sides of the ball.

Offense is fine with skill positions, even running back. I hope Andre Hall becomes the feature back with Selvin getting 10-12 carries a game.

We have one great linebacker and 3/4ths of a good secondary.

We need to get substantially better in the trenches. Chances are that won't happen in one year. We need to build. My opinion, Oline free agency... Dline draft.

Start drafting huge DT's that are in the 320-335 range and DE's that go 280-295. Stop the run and let Moss and Doom go after the QB on passing downs.

Yeah. Speaks volumes about the quality of S on the roster when everyone got excited about Abdullah.

[dogfish]

thanks for your input..
we traded up to get to moss I thought it was this years 3 not sure where it went then. perhaps someone can tell us..



this year's 3rd rounder went for thomas-- we traded one of last year's 3rds to move up for moss (we had two last year because of the lily trade). . .

[broncosinindy]

thanks for your input..
we traded up to get to moss I thought it was this years 3 not sure where it went then. perhaps someone can tell us..

No worries. i sure would have loved to have 2 3rounders this year to go along with our 2 4ths and 5ths

[SmilinAssasSin27]

If I were Shanny, I'd keep my eye on Dre Moore of Maryland. If we need to tarde into round 3 for him, do it.

[CoachChaz]

If I were Shanny, I'd keep my eye on Dre Moore of Maryland. If we need to tarde into round 3 for him, do it.

If he's available that long. Depending on how quickly guys like Dorsey and Ellis are snatched up, the next group of Bryant, Okam, Balmer and Moore could be gone by the end of the 2nd or early 3rd.
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[BOSSHOGG30]

My dream draft would be to get Chris Long or Glenn Dorsey, but I don't see that happening so I would like to see Denver draft Sedrick Ellis in the 1st round. I would like to see Simeon Castille out of Alabama brought in as a safety. He is projected to go anywhere from the 2nd to 4th round. Wheeler would be my ideal fix for SAM linebacker. I would leave D.J. at middle and draft my sleeper WILL linebacker out of Wheaton, Andrew Studebaker. The rest of my picks would be used for O-line depth and another runningback for depth as well. I really like Sammie Stroughter and Rafael Little as kick returners, so both of them would be ideal picks.

[CoachChaz]

My dream draft would be to get Chris Long or Glenn Dorsey, but I don't see that happening so I would like to see Denver draft Sedrick Ellis in the 1st round. I would like to see Simeon Castille out of Alabama brought in as a safety. He is projected to go anywhere from the 2nd to 4th round. Wheeler would be my ideal fix for SAM linebacker. I would leave D.J. at middle and draft my sleeper WILL linebacker out of Wheaton, Andrew Studebaker. The rest of my picks would be used for O-line depth and another runningback for depth as well. I really like Sammie Stroughter and Rafael Little as kick returners, so both of them would be ideal picks.

I'm liking that Studebaker kid more an more. Ellis would be nice, but having two athletic DT's would be useless in a bates system. It sickens me to see Thomas' talent go to waste like it is.
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[BOSSHOGG30]

Doesn't look too bad on paper anyways

Crowder, Ellis, Thomas, Dumervil
Studebaker, D.J., Wheeler
Champ, Bly
Castille, Abdullah

[CoachChaz]

Doesn't look too bad on paper anyways

Crowder, Ellis, Thomas, Dumervil
Studebaker, D.J., Wheeler
Champ, Bly
Castille, Abdullah

While rotating Moss in there as well.
________
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[BOSSHOGG30]

Quentin Groves is another good looking OLB project he will go higher in the draft and is probably the safer pick, but I still like Studebaker and think he is worth the later round pick. Since Denver still has Winborn and Webster it wouldn't hurt us to gamble on Studebaker either as a future WILL linebacker.

[CoachChaz]

Quentin Groves is another good looking OLB project he will go higher in the draft and is probably the safer pick, but I still like Studebaker and think he is worth the later round pick. Since Denver still has Winborn and Webster it wouldn't hurt us to gamble on Studebaker either as a future WILL linebacker.

I like Groves, but I'm really liking Studebaker's motor (no pun intended). I would like to see motre coverage stuff from him. He'd definately be a project.
________
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[BigDaddyBronco]

Sedrick Ellis please

If Bates is back and they are eventually going to use his system is Ellis a fit?

He seems to small for Bates system.

If Bates is gone then Ellis would be my pick as well.

If Bates is back then the Broncos need to look at guys like Okam and Red Bryant.

[CoachChaz]

If Bates is back and they are eventually going to use his system is Ellis a fit?

He seems to small for Bates system.

If Bates is gone then Ellis would be my pick as well.

If Bates is back then the Broncos need to look at guys like Okam and Red Bryant.

Exactly. We are already wasting Thomas...why do the same with Ellis?
________
MONTANA DISPENSARIES (http://montana.dispensaries.org/)

[G_Money]

I'd rather not spend any more high draftpicks on DL, to be honest.

1) Bates is wasting them.

2) How do we know we don't already have the makings of a good DL with what we currently have, BECAUSE Bates is wasting them? On paper Thomas, McKinley, Peterson, Crowder, Moss, Dumervil...it looks like an okay like, so why is it an abomination on the field? I'd rather fix the scheme first instead of drafting yet more DL who will look terrible if we keep Bates.

3) DL is a horribly risky pick, and we can't afford to miss with our 1st day picks. We need 2 picks, 2 good starters.

Get a safety and a LB and a new scheme, see how that improves the D, and then fix the holes in the 2nd year of a new system.

We went through 16 guys on the DL this year didn't we? Drafting more guys for that meat grinder won't make it better. I'd shore up everything BUT the DL (unless we're drafting depth) and then see what last year's draft reaps us.

If they still suck in '08, at least we'll have better LBs and Safeties and an improved offense to help compensate.

If we throw more draftpicks at it and it still sucks, we're right where we were this year - more DL upgrades as well as issues at several other positions.

~G

[BigDaddyBronco]

I think drafting DT's in the first or second round is risky, but it is almost impossible to find a Pro Bowl type of DT in the 2nd day. Decent safeties and LB's can be found at any time.

I know we could create a list of failed DT's in the 1st round, but look at the pro bowlers this year.

Kevin Williams - 1st Rd 2003 (9th pick)
Pat Williams - undrafted in 1997
Tommie Harris - 1st Rd 2004 (14th pick)
Albert Haynesworth - 1st Rd 2002 (15th pick)
Vince Wilfork - 1st Rd 2004 (21st pick)
Jamal Williams - undrafted in 1998

So either sign a rookie FA or draft one in the 1st round. Hey maybe there is a DT with the last name Williams. Hmmmm?

[CoachChaz]

I think drafting DT's in the first or second round is risky, but it is almost impossible to find a Pro Bowl type of DT in the 2nd day. Decent safeties and LB's can be found at any time.

I know we could create a list of failed DT's in the 1st round, but look at the pro bowlers this year.

Kevin Williams - 1st Rd 2003 (9th pick)
Pat Williams - undrafted in 1997
Tommie Harris - 1st Rd 2004 (14th pick)
Albert Haynesworth - 1st Rd 2002 (15th pick)
Vince Wilfork - 1st Rd 2004 (21st pick)
Jamal Williams - undrafted in 1998

So either sign a rookie FA or draft one in the 1st round. Hey maybe there is a DT with the last name Williams. Hmmmm?


Lorenzo Williams from Mizzou.
________
TRICHOMES (http://trichomes.org)

[Hawgdriver]

We could draft a defensive tackle...

But if we were to draft a defensive tackle we will have to prepare for ANOTHER poor year of run defense and another poor year of pass protection.

Rookie defensive lineman usually take a year or two to develop, which means we wouldn't see the kind of play we are hoping for, for another few years.

In my opinion we should draft an offensive tackle in the first round, there are plenty of examples of offensive tackles playing extremely well in their first year, and then we should sign a proven defensive tackle in Free Agency. Maybe Kris Jenkins will be up for trade? Maybe Albert Haynesworth will leave Tennessee (although not likely)? Maybe Corey Williams will be available.

Signing a proven defensive tackle in the prime of his playing career (26-27)will give us great play now and great play for a 4-5 more years. It will also allow us to draft our franchise left tackle.

Agreed. The top DTs, Dorsey and Ellis, will be off the board early. There's a big gap before the next DT, who looks to be NC's Kentwan Balmer. However, the OT field is relatively richer, with the Broncos in excellent position to scoop up SC's Sam Baker, who would be a great fit (on paper) with out system.

I wouldn't be opposed to the Broncos using that pick on a LB or a S like Sam Jenkins (who would convert from corner).

Ideally, the Broncos would land a top tier DT in FA and draft Red Bryant in the second to take a chance on a potential high-caliber big-body run stuffer.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Any way we can pry back Mike Myers from Cincy? I always liked him. Not a star, but a solid player w/ good character.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Myers was cut, struggled at stopping the run in Cincy.

[broncosinindy]

I'd rather not spend any more high draftpicks on DL, to be honest.

1) Bates is wasting them.

2) How do we know we don't already have the makings of a good DL with what we currently have, BECAUSE Bates is wasting them? On paper Thomas, McKinley, Peterson, Crowder, Moss, Dumervil...it looks like an okay like, so why is it an abomination on the field? I'd rather fix the scheme first instead of drafting yet more DL who will look terrible if we keep Bates.

3) DL is a horribly risky pick, and we can't afford to miss with our 1st day picks. We need 2 picks, 2 good starters.

Get a safety and a LB and a new scheme, see how that improves the D, and then fix the holes in the 2nd year of a new system.

We went through 16 guys on the DL this year didn't we? Drafting more guys for that meat grinder won't make it better. I'd shore up everything BUT the DL (unless we're drafting depth) and then see what last year's draft reaps us.

If they still suck in '08, at least we'll have better LBs and Safeties and an improved offense to help compensate.

If we throw more draftpicks at it and it still sucks, we're right where we were this year - more DL upgrades as well as issues at several other positions.

~G

1.Exactly how is jim bates ruining anyone? please elaborate that is a braod statement that to me carries no weight please explain

2. We have some young guys at DE but we have alot of questions as far as DT is concerned. it is a MASSIVE hole. and what we have at the position right now just is not getting it done.

3. ANY pick you make is going to be a risk. there is almost no way to tell if a guy is gonna boom or bust. Vince young going over Cutler? Adrian Peterson going after Calvin johnson? Dwight Freeney at #11 the draft is a crapshoot bro nothing more

Well we ran two defenses this year. How many other defenses are out there? and even if we do change yet again what is the chance that they will have any more success then we had last year.

if we dont draft Dline where it is such a glaring need that it has burnt a hole in my eyeballs. anyone that cannot see that or chooses to ignore it like the broncos have the last couple of years is in for a rude awakeing


I dont get your reasoning on your last thought there is NO sure fire draft pick or certain person to draft.

[CoachChaz]

1.Exactly how is jim bates ruining anyone? please elaborate that is a braod statement that to me carries no weight please explain

2. We have some young guys at DE but we have alot of questions as far as DT is concerned. it is a MASSIVE hole. and what we have at the position right now just is not getting it done.

3. ANY pick you make is going to be a risk. there is almost no way to tell if a guy is gonna boom or bust. Vince young going over Cutler? Adrian Peterson going after Calvin johnson? Dwight Freeney at #11 the draft is a crapshoot bro nothing more

Well we ran two defenses this year. How many other defenses are out there? and even if we do change yet again what is the chance that they will have any more success then we had last year.

if we dont draft Dline where it is such a glaring need that it has burnt a hole in my eyeballs. anyone that cannot see that or chooses to ignore it like the broncos have the last couple of years is in for a rude awakeing


I dont get your reasoning on your last thought there is NO sure fire draft pick or certain person to draft.

All season we ran Bates system and other variations of Bates system. Either way, that system is set up to use large DT's to control gaps so that LB's and DE's can make plays. Our most promising DT right now (Marcus Thomas) does not in any way fit that mold. Thomas is a playmaking DT who excels at getting penetration (think Warren Sapp), not a guy who just holds up the line so the backers can get in (think Sam Adams).

Therefore, drafting another guy in the mold of Thomas (Dorsey or Ellis) would be a waste because their talents would never be used in Bates' system.
________
Michigan medical marijuana dispensaries (http://michigan.dispensaries.org/)

[Lonestar]

1.Exactly how is jim bates ruining anyone? please elaborate that is a braod statement that to me carries no weight please explain

2. We have some young guys at DE but we have alot of questions as far as DT is concerned. it is a MASSIVE hole. and what we have at the position right now just is not getting it done.

3. ANY pick you make is going to be a risk. there is almost no way to tell if a guy is gonna boom or bust. Vince young going over Cutler? Adrian Peterson going after Calvin johnson? Dwight Freeney at #11 the draft is a crapshoot bro nothing more

Well we ran two defenses this year. How many other defenses are out there? and even if we do change yet again what is the chance that they will have any more success then we had last year.

if we dont draft Dline where it is such a glaring need that it has burnt a hole in my eyeballs. anyone that cannot see that or chooses to ignore it like the broncos have the last couple of years is in for a rude awakeing


I dont get your reasoning on your last thought there is NO sure fire draft pick or certain person to draft.


Your correct about the draft being a crap shoot but the lower you pick the less chance of someone going belly up..

Have there been bust in the top 10 sure nough, but there are alot more after
25 also..

Mikey until last year (2006) has not been known for making good choices . I called it DAFTING.

When mikey is on the clock NO one knows what is gonna happen..

[Hawgdriver]

All season we ran Bates system and other variations of Bates system. Either way, that system is set up to use large DT's to control gaps so that LB's and DE's can make plays. Our most promising DT right now (Marcus Thomas) does not in any way fit that mold. Thomas is a playmaking DT who excels at getting penetration (think Warren Sapp), not a guy who just holds up the line so the backers can get in (think Sam Adams).

Therefore, drafting another guy in the mold of Thomas (Dorsey or Ellis) would be a waste because their talents would never be used in Bates' system.

For the sake of argument, let's say we draft Okam (or acquire a big body type through FA), who I think is more of a big body. Would it be workable to have MT and Okam up front? One 'attacker' and one 'stuffer'? That is, one guy that demands double teams and another that doesn't hold up under DT but can make big plays against a single blocker? Of course a lot depends on the talent of those two, but I'm curious if this is a workable personnel situation. I would think we would also need to improve the LBs to get the full benefit.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Fank Okam scouting report

Strengths: Possesses a massive frame. Is tall with exceptional bulk. Has good mobility when his legs are fresh. Will flash the ability to overpower offensive linemen at the point of attack. A space-eater that requires lots of double-team attention versus the run. Ideal for a two-gap scheme. Displays the ability to disengage, find the ball and disrupt in the backfield. Can occasionally be effective as a bull-rushing pass rusher.

Weaknesses: Effort is far too inconsistent. Gives up on plays too easily and takes far too many plays off. He will dominate an offensive lineman one down and get pushed around by the same player the next down. Doesn't protect his legs very well and leaves his feet too frequently. His anticipation skills are marginal; he gets too many late jumps and will jump offside too often. Needs to show better overall discipline. Not very productive as a pass rusher. Lacks the explosive initial quickness and closing burst to consistently penetrate. Stamina and conditioning are clearly problems. He wears down quickly and he's hardly on the field very long as it is.

Overall: Okam has played in 37 games (26 starts) during his first three seasons (2004-'06), recording 108 total tackles, 17 tackles for loss, and five sacks. He missed one game in 2006 due to injury. Okam's upside is nearly limitless. In addition to a massive frame, he flashes the mobility and power to dominate the interior. However, much like Michigan's Alan Branch, who dropped out of this year's first round, Okam's motor is too inconsistent. He needs to turn it up a notch and play with more fire in order to maximize his draft stock, which easily could reach top-10 heights. As it stands right now, though; we believe Okam is one of the most overrated prospects in the 2008 class.

[CoachChaz]

For the sake of argument, let's say we draft Okam (or acquire a big body type through FA), who I think is more of a big body. Would it be workable to have MT and Okam up front? One 'attacker' and one 'stuffer'? That is, one guy that demands double teams and another that doesn't hold up under DT but can make big plays against a single blocker? Of course a lot depends on the talent of those two, but I'm curious if this is a workable personnel situation. I would think we would also need to improve the LBs to get the full benefit.

To run Bates system to it's fullest potential, ideally you'd like to have two plugs. 2 big 320 pound guys. Once the DE's mature and LB's improve, then I think we'd be alright with one big guy and then Thomas. All speculation to be honest.
________
Suzuki tc305 (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Suzuki_TC305)

[broncogirl7]

I think we go for Glenn Dorsey and Sedrick Ellis. D-line needs a major overhaul.

[BOSSHOGG30]

To run Bates system to it's fullest potential, ideally you'd like to have two plugs. 2 big 320 pound guys. Once the DE's mature and LB's improve, then I think we'd be alright with one big guy and then Thomas. All speculation to be honest.

So you are saying take Busari Raji & Nate Robinson

[CoachChaz]

I think we go for Glenn Dorsey and Sedrick Ellis. D-line needs a major overhaul.

I disagree. Dumer has come around with 20 sacks in 2 years, Crowder is very promising and I think a healthy Moss will be nice, too. Thomas is solid in this system and better in a conventional system and McKinley played well at times too. We may need another stud piece in the middle, but after that it's just a matter of letting them mature. This is the price you pay when 4 guys in your rotation have no more than 2 years experience.
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DAIMLER DAVOS (http://www.ford-wiki.com/wiki/Daimler_Davos)

[Hawgdriver]

Another Okam report (projected as a #40-#55 pick):

Seems like he fades too much.



Overview

Okam might be the most potentially dominant defensive lineman in the country. At 6-feet-5, 315 pounds, he has rare quickness off the snap and his great size and strength make him an imposing figure in the middle.
Commanding double- and sometimes even triple-teams, Okam's play provided opportunities for defensive ends Tim Crowder and Brian Robison to enjoy career highs in 2006. Like former UT stars Shaun Rogers and Marcus Tubbs, Okam has the natural ability to be an NFL difference-maker, he only needs to answer questions about his consistency to be drafted as such.

Analysis

Positives: Prototype size for the position. Surprising quickness off the snap. Can gain an instant advantage due to his burst off the line. Great strength at the point of attack. Potentially a dominant run stuffing presence in the middle. Commands double-teams on nearly every play. Recognizes double-teams and can split them due to his athleticism and strength. Good lateral quickness to shuffle down the line and remain in the play. Developing moves as a pass rusher, showcasing an improved swim and spin.

Negatives: Inconsistent. Gets too high off the snap, negating his size and strength advantage. Tires quickly and isn't the same player in the second half that he is in the first. Lacks sustained quickness and isn't able to make big plays behind the line of scrimmage consistently enough when opportunities are presented. Isn't a consistent pass-rush threat.

[CoachChaz]

So you are saying take Busari Raji & Nate Robinson

Not at all. but, if the system works, then you can have big, fat DT's that look alot netter than what they really are.
________
Yamaha Mu-Series Specifications (http://www.yamaha-tech.com/wiki/Yamaha_MU-series)

[CoachChaz]

Another Okam report (projected as a #40-#55 pick):

Seems like he fades too much.

Pretty much describes the perfect DT for this system
________
Dodge razor history (http://www.dodge-wiki.com/wiki/Dodge_Razor)

[Hawgdriver]

Any talk about Kentwan Balmer? There aren't too many big bodies coming out this year, all I see are Red Bryant and Okam over 320. Although Balmer is listed as 298, you might think his 6'5" frame could accommodate a bit more sand in the pants.



Overview


There are few positions NFL scouts are more willing to gamble high-round draft picks on than defensive linemen. In Balmer, there certainly is reason to gamble.

Blessed with rare overall athleticism for a man his size, Balmer has enjoyed a breakout senior campaign in 2007 after struggling with consistency throughout his previous years with the Tar Heels. Though statistics can be manipulated to make ridiculous arguments, there is no denying Balmer's improvement as a senior from seasons past. Over the 2005 and 2006 seasons, a span in which Balmer played in 21 games, the big defensive tackle accumulated 33 tackles, 7.5 tackles for loss and 3.5 sacks. Through the first seven games of the 2007 season, Balmer had already racked up 40 tackles, including 5.5 tackles for loss and half a sack.

As his numbers indicate, Balmer isn't a natural pass rusher, lacking the burst off the snap to generate much pressure up front. He does possess good size at the point of attack to fend off double-team blocks. He reads the action quickly and, after being voted a permanent team captain this season, has played with a sense of urgency. He has pursued with passion this season, making many of his tackles down the line of scrimmage.

Scouts will have to determine if Balmer's breakout campaign is the result of the light finally going on or if he is motivated by the dollars of a big rookie contract. To find out, teams will likely be forced to use a high-round selection come April.



Analysis


Positives: Rare combination of size and overall athleticism -- especially in terms of his straight-line speed and flexibility. ... Has really matured as a senior, earning permanent team captain honors. ... Role as a leader has apparently paid off as he looks like a different player on film in 2007. ... Flashes quickness at the point of attack. ... Recognizes the action and pursues down the line hard. ... Protects his knees and will go airborne to make the play. ... Good strength at the point of attack to eat up double-teams and allow opportunities for his teammates. ... Reliable open-field tackler with rare agility for a man his size. ... Could be on the verge of realizing his potential.

Negatives: Has struggled with consistency in the past. ... Considered a bit of an underachiever until his senior year. ... Lacks the burst off the snap to generate a consistent interior pass rush. ... Some question if his breakout senior year is motivated by the promise of NFL money and how he'll respond once he gets the big paycheck.

[Hawgdriver]

Pretty much describes the perfect DT for this system

Might thought exactly...let's rewind the clock to 2006! :rolleyes:

[CoachChaz]

Any talk about Kentwan Balmer? There aren't too many big bodies coming out this year, all I see are Red Bryant and Okam over 320. Although Balmer is listed as 298, you might think his 6'5" frame could accommodate a bit more sand in the pants.

Balmer is a project. With the right coaching he could be a really good player. Should be able to add some weight to his frame, but I expect him to end up more in the Richard Seymour build and style
________
Cavalier (http://www.chevy-wiki.com/wiki/Chevrolet_Cavalier)

[Lonestar]

I disagree. Dumer has come around with 20 sacks in 2 years, Crowder is very promising and I think a healthy Moss will be nice, too. Thomas is solid in this system and better in a conventional system and McKinley played well at times too. We may need another stud piece in the middle, but after that it's just a matter of letting them mature. This is the price you pay when 4 guys in your rotation have no more than 2 years experience.


I tend to agree with you here..

I think one stud in the draft in the 315-330 range and then one filler to rotate in and out to spell the starters will fill this DL out quite nicely..

I think any or all of them would be able to collapse the pocket or at least not allow the DE to pressure the QB up into the pocket to be sacked by the DT's

Right now we do not have that we have DE putting on pressure and the QB escaping up the middle.

[Lonestar]

Another Okam report (projected as a #40-#55 pick):

Seems like he fades too much.

Name a few that do not.

Unless we are willing and fortunate enough to get Hanesworth via trade or FA we are not going to have the perfect DT..

I can not believe that TEN will allow him to get free..

[SmilinAssasSin27]

There are a umber of hogs we could draft in hopes that they end up like either of the Minnesota DTs and be content w/ plugging holes and taking blockers.

Ahtyba Rubin, DT, Iowa State 6'3" 326

Jason Shirley, DT, Fresno State 6'5" 330

Frank Morton, DT, Tulane 6'2" 331

Henry Smith, DT, Texas A&M 6'3" 315

[EMB6903]

Denver definately needs a Defensive tackle, Im just not a big fan of drafting one in the top 15, a position thats filled with underachievers and so many high drafted defensive tackles are BUSTS... Isnt Pat Williams a FA this year, that or Terdell Sands, hes most likely done in Oakland... theres a guy named albert haynesworth I wouldnt mind either... Price tag on him will be outragous though, I like both Ellis and Dorsey.. but they are top 10 picks and Okam isnt first round worthy if you ask me. rather go out and get some speed offensively or fix up that Oline... if we go defense Linebacker or Safety, Phillips most likely will be there when Denver chooses.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Corey Williams is prolly the best FA DT out this season. Haynesworth will get franchised.

Albert Haynesworth, UFA, Tennessee Titans
Haynesworth came into the season determined to have a great year and he showed up. He has six sacks, 40 tackles, and he has constantly applied pressure up the middle— allowing other defensive linemen to have an even greater impact themselves. While quarterback Vince Young struggled for much of the season, Haynesworth led a defensive unit that contributed significantly to the Titans potential playoff run. The Titans will find it hard to let Haynesworth leave via free agency, as it would create a sizable hole to fill. The defensive tackle will command big dollars on the market.

Corey Williams, UFA, Green Bay Packers
A starting defensive tackle for a rejuvenated and strong Green Bay team, Williams has helped the Packers become one of the better defensive units around. Williams has been able to tally seven sacks—matching his 2006 total—along with 32 total tackles and three forced fumbles. He has been very disruptive and will receive very strong interest as a free agent this upcoming offseason.

Other Free Agent Defensive Linemen
Jordan Carstens UFA Carolina Panthers
Ebenezer Ekuban UFA Denver Broncos
Sam Rayburn UFA San Francisco 49ers
Paul Spicer UFA Jacksonville Jaguars
Randy Starks UFA Tennessee Titans
Renaldo Wynn UFA Washington Redskins

[BOSSHOGG30]

Balmer plays with the attitude we need to add to our defense.... he play with a mean streak.

[Lonestar]

Corey Williams is prolly the best FA DT out this season. Haynesworth will get franchised.

Albert Haynesworth, UFA, Tennessee Titans
Haynesworth came into the season determined to have a great year and he showed up. He has six sacks, 40 tackles, and he has constantly applied pressure up the middle— allowing other defensive linemen to have an even greater impact themselves. While quarterback Vince Young struggled for much of the season, Haynesworth led a defensive unit that contributed significantly to the Titans potential playoff run. The Titans will find it hard to let Haynesworth leave via free agency, as it would create a sizable hole to fill. The defensive tackle will command big dollars on the market.

Corey Williams, UFA, Green Bay Packers
A starting defensive tackle for a rejuvenated and strong Green Bay team, Williams has helped the Packers become one of the better defensive units around. Williams has been able to tally seven sacks—matching his 2006 total—along with 32 total tackles and three forced fumbles. He has been very disruptive and will receive very strong interest as a free agent this upcoming offseason.

Other Free Agent Defensive Linemen
Jordan Carstens UFA Carolina Panthers
Ebenezer Ekuban UFA Denver Broncos
Sam Rayburn UFA San Francisco 49ers
Paul Spicer UFA Jacksonville Jaguars
Randy Starks UFA Tennessee Titans
Renaldo Wynn UFA Washington Redskins

Good job HOWEVER rarely does a GOOD DT get on the free market unless they have someone in reserve. When they do get loose you have a 5-6 team bidding war..

A stud DT as a rookie can have a huge impact..

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Green Bay drafted Justin Harrell w/ their #1 last year. Corey Williams may be expendable.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

http://www.packers.com/team/players/williams_corey/

Corey Williams 6'4" 313

W/ Harrell being their #1 in 2007 draft Williams won't get the big money from GB. It'd be really nice to be able to land him and focus elsewhere in the draft.

Williams was a 6th round draft pick. Ryan Pickett, their other DT was undrafted. W/ so many DT busts, I'd hate to use our #1 when history shows DTs are very obtainable later on.

[broncosinindy]

All season we ran Bates system and other variations of Bates system. Either way, that system is set up to use large DT's to control gaps so that LB's and DE's can make plays. Our most promising DT right now (Marcus Thomas) does not in any way fit that mold. Thomas is a playmaking DT who excels at getting penetration (think Warren Sapp), not a guy who just holds up the line so the backers can get in (think Sam Adams).

Therefore, drafting another guy in the mold of Thomas (Dorsey or Ellis) would be a waste because their talents would never be used in Bates' system.

I disaggree. they are differant schemes slowiks and bates. Bates plays gaps. with linebackers playing a gap. Slowik uses his linebackers to free lance. Actually as mug would say he is a "quasi-DT which is ok at both but great at neither. Thomas did have the frame to add weight to get what bates wanted. I'm sorry but as i seen it this year. MT was better at clogging and playing the run then he did at penetrateing which he couldnt do. the jury is still out on him and this all could change but that is what i noticed his first year

Actually i would compare at this poitn MT to Gerrard Warren. there roughly the same size with warren probably weighing 10 lbs more and have the same skill set. Both came into the leauge and were supposed to be UT. Warren did ok at this just never at a all star leval. i think well see a Gerrard warren in MT.

[broncosinindy]

Your correct about the draft being a crap shoot but the lower you pick the less chance of someone going belly up..

Have there been bust in the top 10 sure nough, but there are alot more after
25 also..

Mikey until last year (2006) has not been known for making good choices . I called it DAFTING.

When mikey is on the clock NO one knows what is gonna happen..

You cannot blame shanahan alone for those picks.

[broncosinindy]

To run Bates system to it's fullest potential, ideally you'd like to have two plugs. 2 big 320 pound guys. Once the DE's mature and LB's improve, then I think we'd be alright with one big guy and then Thomas. All speculation to be honest.The problem with our backers is that they didnt play gap discipline very well at all. they have been career free lancers and the change in philosphy killed them

[broncosinindy]

There are a umber of hogs we could draft in hopes that they end up like either of the Minnesota DTs and be content w/ plugging holes and taking blockers.

Ahtyba Rubin, DT, Iowa State 6'3" 326

Jason Shirley, DT, Fresno State 6'5" 330

Frank Morton, DT, Tulane 6'2" 331

Henry Smith, DT, Texas A&M 6'3" 315

Add Pat sims to your list as well as marcus harrison rom arkansas adn it looks like terrance taylor could enter the draft as well

[Skinny]

Would you take Sedrick Ellis at #12 indy??

I think i would ...

[Lonestar]

You cannot blame shanahan alone for those picks.

NOPE, but he is the man with the buck stops here on his desk..

Who else are you willing/wanting to blame?

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Would you take Sedrick Ellis at #12 indy??

I think i would ...

I'd be giddy. I do want KP at Safety, but Ellis would also please me.

[Bronco9798]

Drew Boylhart January 2008

Sedrick Ellis DT USC

STRENGTHS
Sedrick has excellent quickness and natural strength to play more than one position on the defensive line for the team that drafts him. His mental strength and stamina could make him a star in his first year at the next level. Sedrick is a smart player and does not get fooled twice in a game with the same play. He does a great job rushing the passer and a solid job stuffing the run. Sedrick puts all his effort into every play and his biggest strength is his athletic ability that will allow the team that drafts him to use him in multiple schemes and positions.

NEEDS TO IMPROVE
Sedrick for the next level is a multi-position player who is a little small for the DT position and might not have the pure pass rushing speed to be a DE for the next level. What you see is what you get physically when you evaluate Sedrick. He will have to improve at the next level by using good work ethic, brains and instincts. I have no doubt he will be able to accomplish this.

TALENT BOARD ROUND 1
Sedrick can play in a number of different types of defensive schemes and positions because of his natural athletic talent, quickness and strength. He could be used as a DE in a 3-4 or a DT in a 4-3 defense. He is a better fit for the teams that use a 1-gap attack style of defense; however, I believe in a 4-3, 2-gap system, he could be a very good strong side DE. Now some people are going to suggest that he does not have the body type for that position, but it’s not about body type – it’s about making plays and Sedrick can make plays. Teams like the Bears, Steelers, Bills, Colts, Giants, Jets, and a number of other teams should have this kid high on their radar screens. He reminds me a lot of John McCargo (DT Buffalo Bills), who is starting to make plays this year after breaking a foot his rookie year. Before John broke his foot, he was making plays all over the field. Sedrick is this type of player that needs a defense that will allow him to use his quickness off the snap of the ball to disrupt. But trust me, using him as a DE on rushing downs and then moving him inside on passing downs would allow this kid to impact right away. Sedrick is a leader and the type of player who will play every down; he has the stamina and work ethic to be used as an every down player.

[Skinny]

I'd be giddy. I do want KP at Safety, but Ellis would also please me.Yeah, i'd be happy with either of those two at #12.

Ellis is the DT i've wanted from the git go. I would be happy with Okam too, in the 2nd round or another big bodied run stuffer over a penetrating type DT.

What do you think about the Safety class in the 09' Draft ... pretty good, deep??

Ever seen Emanuel Cook play??

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I dunno about Okam. The talent is there...the mentality and killer instinct doesn't seem to be.

I dunno about the 09 safeties yet. The kid from Florida State should be a stud, and he's smart. He'll likely be on my short list for next year. I really haven't seen too much of Cook, but I'm not excited about his gun charge.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

MYRON ROLLE, Safety, Florida State:

At Florida State: All-America candidate who will start for the second consecutive season at the all-important rover position...ranked as the No. 8 strong safety in college football and a pre-season all-ACC second team selection by the Sporting News...a member of the Bednarik Award watch list...a 2007 preseason All-ACC second team selection by Athlon Magazine...his defensive presence takes on an added dimension with the relative inexperience at the linebacker position...could also see playing time at free safety...Florida State's leading returning tackler entering the 2007 season...a solid open field tackler who is smart enough to get himself into the correct positions to make plays...very aggressive and confident and is a strong coverage player...received scholarship offers from 57 schools before deciding on Florida State...has the entire package -- size, speed, athleticism, toughness and versatility to go along with one of the strongest minds of any college football player...spent part of the summer of 2007 in London as part of Florida State's International Programs...one of the most academically advanced players in college football history, Rolle has already earned nearly enough credits to be a senior entering his second season.

Freshman Year (2006): First team Freshman All-American and the ACC Defensive Rookie of the Year by The Sporting News...Freshman All-American first team by The American Football Coaches' Association and College Football News...Freshman All-America second team by Rivals.com...finished fifth in the voting for ACC Rookie of the Year honors by the Atlantic Coast Sports Media Association...All-ACC Honorable Mention by the ACSMA...played in 12 of Florida State's 13 games and started the final 10 games of the season including the Seminoles' victory over UCLA in the Emerald Bowl...began pre-season practice with the goal of becoming a starter and was inserted into the starting line-up in week four against Rice...moved into the starting line-up after starter Anthony Houllis was lost for the season because of a knee injury...finished third on the team in tackles with 77 including 5.5 tackles for minus yardage...finished 17th overall and as the ACC's leading tackler among freshman with a 6.4 tackles per game average ...tied for second on the team with five pass break-ups with a careerhigh two coming against Florida...earned his career-high of 11 tackles in Florida State's victory over Western Michigan...recorded his first career quarterback sack against Virginia and totaled a career-high two tackles for minus yardage against the Cavaliers in the Seminoles' 33-0 victory...had 1.5 tackles for minus yardage against Maryland, one against Western Michigan and 0.5 for loss against Florida...first career interception came in Florida State's victory over UCLA in the Emerald Bowl.

High School: Graduated from The Hun School in January of 2006 - a full semester ahead of his graduating class and immediately enrolled at Florida State...was named the ACC's preseason defensive newcomer of the year by The Sporting News and proved the publication correct by winning the award at the end of the season...listed as the conference's No. 1 impact newcomer by Athlon Sports...the No. 1 ranked player nationally on ESPN's 150 for 2006 after a senior season where he totaled 112 tackles including 14 tackles for minus yardage... listed as the No. 1 athlete in the nation and No. 1 prospect in the state of New Jersey according to Rivals.com...rated as a five-star player and 11th overall prospect in the nation by Rivals.com... rated as the seventh overall recruit in the nation and No. 1 defensive back by Scout.com...named to the 2006 EA Sports All-American first team defense...a Parade All-American and one of 16 finalists for the 2006 Parade All-America High School Football Player of the Year Award... received three out of a possible three stars from PrepStar Magazine and was named the No. 3 overall prospect on the magazine's Top 100 Dream Team...named the New Jersey Prep Defensive Player of the Year by the Newark Star Ledger as a junior after registering 83 tackles (19 for loss), six sacks and four interceptions...totaled 112 tackles - including 14 for minus yardage - as a senior...represented the East team in the U.S. Army All-American Bowl...roomed with Clemson's C.J. Spiller at the Army All-American game...named the National Defensive Player of the Year by the Touchdown Club of Columbus, Ohio...a versatile athlete, he lined up at safety, cornerback, wide receiver and running back during his high school career...played four years of varsity basketball during his high school career...named MVP of the Nike Camp at the University of Miami prior to his senior season...chose Florida State over Florida, Oklahoma, Michigan, Penn State, Miami and Texas.

Personal: Born Oct. 30, 1986...majoring in exercise sciences and plans to attend medical school...will enter the fall three hours shy of being a senior academically...his father graduated with a master's degree in finance from Miami...played the lead role in his school's production of "Fiddler on the Roof" as a senior...the youngest of five brothers...wants to become a Rhodes Scholar like his good friend and former Seminole track and field star Garrett Johnson...2007 Arthur Ashe first team sports scholar...won the 2006 Watkins Award, awarded to high school students on the basis of academic achievement, athletics and involvement in the community.

[Skinny]

Yeah, the Carolina fans were'nt jumping up and down with glee either ...

[SmilinAssasSin27]

From what I hear, dude can play. Again, only saw 1 SC game this year and it was vs LSU...kinda sloppy all around.

[Skinny]

Rolle ...
Personal: Born Oct. 30, 1986...majoring in exercise sciences and plans to attend medical school...will enter the fall three hours shy of being a senior academically...his father graduated with a master's degree in finance from Miami...played the lead role in his school's production of "Fiddler on the Roof" as a senior...the youngest of five brothers...wants to become a Rhodes Scholar like his good friend and former Seminole track and field star Garrett Johnson...2007 Arthur Ashe first team sports scholar...won the 2006 Watkins Award, awarded to high school students on the basis of academic achievement, athletics and involvement in the community.
Sounds like a good kid ...

I've seen him play a couple times this season. Against Miami* and Clemson. He's a player ...

Cook is a player on the feild, and wants to be a playa off. He has a chance to fix it and make it right. Like Boyd did ... we'll see ... i'm not holdin my breathe ...

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I've watched him and Kenny Phillips a lot because they were both down to Tennessee and their respective schools when they were deciding on colleges. I wanted to see what UT missed out on.