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View Full Version : Marshall learning to run with the ball the hard way?



lex
12-15-2007, 07:38 PM
Does anyone get the feeling that he's either going to cough up a crucial fumble or get injured during one of his episodes of freelancing with the football? I have mixed feelings. I like that we have a WR who can run with the ball but I kind of hold my breath.

DenBronx
12-15-2007, 08:39 PM
Does anyone get the feeling that he's either going to cough up a crucial fumble or get injured during one of his episodes of freelancing with the football? I have mixed feelings. I like that we have a WR who can run with the ball but I kind of hold my breath.

well, he did play a little bit of runningback so he does know how to hang onto the ball when he takes shots. i say let him keep doing it...after all its working isnt it?

Lonestar
12-15-2007, 08:55 PM
I think they commented during the game or maybe it was pregame that he practice forever making catches with his hands, they said he has some of the strongest hands they had ever seen..

Does he worry me about trying to make 5 more yards after the catch when he has 4-5 guys trying to tackle him. They also commented that he does not like to go out of bounds..

That bothers me a lot as it is a sure way of getting knee taken out or getting concussed..

silkamilkamonico
12-15-2007, 09:01 PM
I'd rather he does what he does and possibly fumble a little more frequently rather than catch the ball and get tackled by the first man like the majority of weak WR's in the NFL.

Make a play son.

Lonestar
12-15-2007, 09:04 PM
I'd rather he does what he does and possibly fumble a little more frequently rather than catch the ball and get tackled by the first man like the majority of weak WR's in the NFL.

Make a play son.

But there is a point where the law of averages kick in.. I'm not asking him to be ashely falling to the ground after the catch or immediately going out of bounds when someone is near him. But the fight he puts up when there are 4-7 defenders near him looking to take his knee out.

Pick your spots to get extra yards.. Live to fight another day

Watchthemiddle
12-15-2007, 09:13 PM
I love his style of play. He shows passion and aggresiveness. Hopefully it will rub off on his offensive teamates.

If he were ever to get hurt, I would rather it be because he is giving it his all at 110% then sand bagging it.

DenBronx
12-15-2007, 09:15 PM
But there is a point where the law of averages kick in.. I'm not asking him to be ashely falling to the ground after the catch or immediately going out of bounds when someone is near him. But the fight he puts up when there are 4-7 defenders near him looking to take his knee out.

Pick your spots to get extra yards.. Live to fight another day


well, owens has been doing it since day one. some guys are just made to produce after they catch the ball. steve smith comes to mind as well. i do see what your saying because one solid hit to the knee could end a career but that could be said with anyone playing in the nfl. marshals desire is to take it to the house every single play and i love what he said in his most recent interview, he said " yeah i got 21 catches in 2 games but id trade them for 2 wins" so this kid only wants to win...we need more spirit like that in the locker room thats for sure.

silkamilkamonico
12-15-2007, 09:15 PM
But there is a point where the law of averages kick in.. I'm not asking him to be ashely falling to the ground after the catch or immediately going out of bounds when someone is near him. But the fight he puts up when there are 4-7 defenders near him looking to take his knee out.

Pick your spots to get extra yards.. Live to fight another day

I agree, but I also think the good outweighs the bad. I'll take a couple fumbles for many more bigger runs, it's how it's averaged out now. He rarely fumbles.

Same theory applies to a gunslinging QB like Cutler. Are you going to take away his chances of going downfield in fear of him throwing an interception?

silkamilkamonico
12-15-2007, 09:17 PM
I love his style of play. He shows passion and aggresiveness. Hopefully it will rub off on his offensive teamates.

If he were ever to get hurt, I would rather it be because he is giving it his all at 110% then sand bagging it.

I agree. Making plays like he does injects life into the offense.

Also, forget the getting hurt. He can blow his knee out by running a route and cutting wrong.

His reckless style is just the way he plays the game. Let him play his game. Don't take that away from him.

DenBronx
12-15-2007, 09:18 PM
I agree, but I also think the good outweighs the bad. I'll take a couple fumbles for many more bigger runs, it's how it's averaged out now. He rarely fumbles.

Same theory applies to a gunslinging QB like Cutler. Are you going to take away his chances of going downfield in fear of him throwing an interception?

very true silk...in fact any positions. ask bailey if he likes taking risk to after an int?? if he fails he gets burned and maybe 6 points gets put up on the board but if he grabs one the it changes the game. not really the same as getting a knee busted but i love guys that have guts.

lex
12-15-2007, 09:18 PM
I agree, but I also think the good outweighs the bad. I'll take a couple fumbles for many more bigger runs, it's how it's averaged out now. He rarely fumbles.

Same theory applies to a gunslinging QB like Cutler. Are you going to take away his chances of going downfield in fear of him throwing an interception?

But its not just fumbling and all it takes is for him to blow out a knee once and it would be devastating. I agree with JRwiz. When the numbers arent there, go down. It also has been losing yards sometimes.

DenBronx
12-15-2007, 09:19 PM
But its not just fumbling and all it takes is for him to blow out a knee once and it would be devastating. I agree with JRwiz. When the numbers arent there, go down. It also has been losing yards sometimes.

yeah maybe 1 or 2 plays the whole year man....most of his plays are yards after he catches.

lex
12-15-2007, 09:20 PM
very true silk...in fact any positions. ask bailey if he likes taking risk to after an int?? if he fails he gets burned and maybe 6 points gets put up on the board but if he grabs one the it changes the game. not really the same as getting a knee busted but i love guys that have guts.

I think we all recognize that he's a gamer and we respect him tremendously for that. So we appreciate the effort but its also about being smart.

silkamilkamonico
12-15-2007, 09:20 PM
But its not just fumbling and all it takes is for him to blow out a knee once and it would be devastating. I agree with JRwiz. When the numbers arent there, go down. It also has been losing yards sometimes.

I disagree with the injury aspect. I also disagree with the not being aggressive side of it. You cannot tell a kid, who's jacked up on adrenaline and getting paid, to go down instead of trying to make a play.

I find that absurd, but to each his own.

lex
12-15-2007, 09:21 PM
yeah maybe 1 or 2 plays the whole year man....most of his plays are yards after he catches.

Dont just look at the catches though. He has also tried to freelance this way a couple of times on reverses where it wasnt as beneficial.

silkamilkamonico
12-15-2007, 09:22 PM
I think we all recognize that he's a gamer and we respect him tremendously for that. So we appreciate the effort but its also about being smart.

But if he had a smart approach to the game in terms of going down, we would not recognize him as the gamer he is. Just a big guy who does a good job at catching the ball. Brandon's game is what sets him apart from players liek Vincent Jackson and Marques Colston.

lex
12-15-2007, 09:24 PM
But if he had a smart approach to the game in terms of going down, we would not recognize him as the gamer he is. Just a big guy who does a good job at catching the ball. Brandon's game is what sets him apart from players liek Vincent Jackson and Marques Colston.

No, he's also a gamer based on how he blocks and goes after the ball. And again, JRWiz is correct to point out that he seems to do it a lot when #s arent there. He should pick his spots more.

DenBronx
12-15-2007, 09:26 PM
I think we all recognize that he's a gamer and we respect him tremendously for that. So we appreciate the effort but its also about being smart.

i think marshal is a rare breed. he is very very strong and has the size to go along with his strength. were not talking about a finese wr like harrison. were talking about a physical monster. marshal im sure doesnt like getting hit but i think in the heat of the moment he will do whatever it takes to break a big one.

heck, even shef did a pretty crazy thing last thursday but trying to jump over that guy. he wasnt going to be denied a td. i think some of the guys are so hungry to put points on the board that yeah maybe they do stupid things sometimes but alot of that will change as they get older and learn hey my body cant take unessesary shots sometimes.

what if elways career would have been ended on that helicopter play? some guys show that they are tough in thier style of play....and then we all sit at home and say wow that guys got heart....because they do.

silkamilkamonico
12-15-2007, 09:27 PM
No, he's also a gamer based on how he blocks and goes after the ball. And again, JRWiz is correct to point out that he seems to do it a lot when #s arent there. He should pick his spots more.

Vincent Jackson is a very good blocker and goes after the ball too, is he a gamer like Marshall?

"Picking his spots more" is a benefit of hindsight, and replays of looking at a play and seeing nothing's there. Marshall's making a split second decision, and I like the fact that he's trying to make a play instead of pu----g out and falling down.

DenBronx
12-15-2007, 09:29 PM
Dont just look at the catches though. He has also tried to freelance this way a couple of times on reverses where it wasnt as beneficial.

well thats just stupid play calling. i didnt like that call at all because it was so noticable that we were going to run that. shannys not been doing such a great job at fooling people lately.

lex
12-15-2007, 09:29 PM
Vincent Jackson is a very good blocker and goes after the ball too, is he a gamer like Marshall?

"Picking his spots more" is a benefit of hindsight, and replays of looking at a play and seeing nothing's there. Marshall's making a split second decision, and I like the fact that he's trying to make a play instead of pu----g out and falling down.


No, I dont care about Vince Jackson and I was talking more about that he does it when its 4 or 5 on 1.

silkamilkamonico
12-15-2007, 09:31 PM
No, I dont care about Vince Jackson and I was talking more about that he does it when its 4 or 5 on 1.

I don't care about Vince Jackson either. He's someone who falls down after the catch instead of trying to make a play like Marshall.

Lonestar
12-15-2007, 09:38 PM
I agree, but I also think the good outweighs the bad. I'll take a couple fumbles for many more bigger runs, it's how it's averaged out now. He rarely fumbles.

Same theory applies to a gunslinging QB like Cutler. Are you going to take away his chances of going downfield in fear of him throwing an interception?

When you do that you take them out of their game.. I just hope a vet like Rod can counsel him into playing smart..

silkamilkamonico
12-15-2007, 09:43 PM
When you do that you take them out of their game.. I just hope a vet like Rod can counsel him into playing smart..

I don't think we have to worry much about Marshall turning into a fumbler. He's fumbled 3 times in 111 touches.

Lonestar
12-15-2007, 09:45 PM
I don't think we have to worry much about Marshall turning into a fumbler. He's fumbled 3 times in 111 touches.

I was talking more about playing smart.. Not about fumblerooskis

I think walker is gone and Marshall just got promoted..

DenBronx
12-15-2007, 10:14 PM
I was talking more about playing smart.. Not about fumblerooskis

I think walker is gone and Marshall just got promoted..

if they release walker then i wonder if they will make a push to get cj? maybe offer cinn a 2nd rounder?

Watchthemiddle
12-15-2007, 10:25 PM
if they release walker then i wonder if they will make a push to get cj? maybe offer cinn a 2nd rounder?

Are they looking to get rid of CJ?

DenBronx
12-15-2007, 10:28 PM
Are they looking to get rid of CJ?

its been rumored then nfl network adam shef said the bengals if they cant work out a deal might look for a trade.


imo its like this anyway cj > walker


so i say make a push for him. could you imagine marshal and cj one either side with stokely in the slot?


championship. :D put em on the board.

Lonestar
12-15-2007, 10:30 PM
if they release walker then i wonder if they will make a push to get cj? maybe offer cinn a 2nd rounder?

Sorry but we do not need another number 1 WR someone already has that job locked DOWN..

I see use running this configuration Marshal, Stokely, Scheffelr as a H back type and Graham as TE. This would be almost impossible to stop IF Jay has time to get hrough more than 1-2 reads..

Factor in Rod if he comes back all we need is another WR to groom for down the road..

Stand Ablaze
12-15-2007, 10:45 PM
its been rumored then nfl network adam shef said the bengals if they cant work out a deal might look for a trade.


imo its like this anyway cj > walker


so i say make a push for him. could you imagine marshal and cj one either side with stokely in the slot?


championship. :D put em on the board.

I guess having CJ would be a nice compliment to the WR core. But do we really want Marshall learning CJ's ways? I mean you go from learning to be humble from Rod Smith then you go to learning how to do river dances after you score a touchdown with CJ. Do we really want that?

lex
12-15-2007, 10:58 PM
its been rumored then nfl network adam shef said the bengals if they cant work out a deal might look for a trade.


imo its like this anyway cj > walker


so i say make a push for him. could you imagine marshal and cj one either side with stokely in the slot?


championship. :D put em on the board.

Bad idea. In addition to what has already been said, our WRs need to block. CJ isnt exactly one of the best at this.

saddletramp
12-15-2007, 11:15 PM
Does anyone get the feeling that he's either going to cough up a crucial fumble or get injured during one of his episodes of freelancing with the football? I have mixed feelings. I like that we have a WR who can run with the ball but I kind of hold my breath.

I am with DEN, as long as it works.

omac
12-16-2007, 01:53 AM
I guess having CJ would be a nice compliment to the WR core. But do we really want Marshall learning CJ's ways? I mean you go from learning to be humble from Rod Smith then you go to learning how to do river dances after you score a touchdown with CJ. Do we really want that?

CJ is extremely talented, and immediately puts pressure into opposing defenses; that said, I agree with Stand Ablaze. I don't think CJ's personality will help the Broncos as a team.

More than just the TD celebrations, I'm thinking the reason CJ's not happy with the Bengals is because for most of this season, it's been TJ who's been the recipient of most of Palmer's TD passes. He doesn't like being on a team where he isn't the focus. What happens if Marshall gets the majority of TDs, would he then want out of Denver? I'd think so.

DenBronx
12-16-2007, 02:06 AM
yeah yeah yeah ive heard this all before 2 years ago when we had the chance to get owens you guys were crying not to get him. he led the league in tds with 13 that year and this year he has 14 with 3 games still to go. then we could have got a guy by the name of randy moss who leads the league this year with 19tds for only a 3rd rounder. both guys dramatically changed their teams for the better. dont like them as individuals well thats fine but as ive said before stats dont lie and cj produces on the field. id gladly put up with his after the td celebrations if it means we score in the red zone.

its not about looking for another #1 or #2 wr its about finding the best player we can get at wr. yeah marshal might be a #1 wr now but that doesnt mean we cant have two #1's. if walker is cut then i dont want some cast away like lelie coming in only to put up 500 yards for the year with 1 td. if thats the case then id rather us just take our chances with javon. you dont give up a bmw to get a hyundai....you give up a bmw to get a benz.

omac
12-16-2007, 02:19 AM
yeah yeah yeah ive heard this all before 2 years ago when we had the chance to get owens you guys were crying not to get him. he led the league in tds with 13 that year and this year he has 14 with 3 games still to go. then we could have got a guy by the name of randy moss who leads the league this year with 19tds for only a 3rd rounder. both guys dramatically changed their teams for the better. dont like them as individuals well thats fine but as ive said before stats dont lie and cj produces on the field. id gladly put up with his after the td celebrations if it means we score in the red zone.

its not about looking for another #1 or #2 wr its about finding the best player we can get at wr. yeah marshal might be a #1 wr now but that doesnt mean we cant have two #1's. if walker is cut then i dont want some cast away like lelie coming in only to put up 500 yards for the year with 1 td. if thats the case then id rather us just take our chances with javon. you dont give up a bmw to get a hyundai....you give up a bmw to get a benz.

You mention Owens and Moss; despite their talent, it's their character that brings them or their team down, specially with Moss. Everyone praises Moss for his performance this year in NE, but he quit on his team in Oakland. Moss decides when Moss wants to play. Put him in a winning team with a great situation and he's happy; put him in a team that could really use his help and he tanks, wanting out, and infecting the locker room with his negativity.

Players with great talent but poor character are hit and miss; put them in a tough situation and you can't predict if they'll do their best for their team.

Johnson was happier last season, because he was the focus, and TJ was just his sidekick. Now that TJ's been outperforming him, getting the majority of the TDs, Johnson is complaining and wants out. He could do the same if he were here.

Lonestar
12-16-2007, 02:56 AM
You mention Owens and Moss; despite their talent, it's their character that brings them or their team down, specially with Moss. Everyone praises Moss for his performance this year in NE, but he quit on his team in Oakland. Moss decides when Moss wants to play. Put him in a winning team with a great situation and he's happy; put him in a team that could really use his help and he tanks, wanting out, and infecting the locker room with his negativity.

Players with great talent but poor character are hit and miss; put them in a tough situation and you can't predict if they'll do their best for their team.

Johnson was happier last season, because he was the focus, and TJ was just his sidekick. Now that TJ's been outperforming him, getting the majority of the TDs, Johnson is complaining and wants out. He could do the same if he were here.


Good post..

Once again everyone is focused on flash instead of substance..

omac
12-16-2007, 03:01 AM
Good post..

Once again everyone is focused on flash instead of substance..

Thanks man. :cheers: We need guys who continue to fight when the going gets tough.

fcspikeit
12-16-2007, 03:34 AM
Dont just look at the catches though. He has also tried to freelance this way a couple of times on reverses where it wasnt as beneficial.


I was going to say this. :salute:

I love how he runs hard after the catch. But, IMO he gets a little carried away some times. The other night on the reverse he had like a 4 yard gain. He ended up running back and losing yards. Some times he needs to pick his hole and just hit it.

Here is a good example,,, Look at the way Hester returns kicks. Does he dance around up and back spinning all over the place? NO he hits his hole hard and runs through the arm tackles. When you see a guy on a punt return dance around up and back where does it get him most the time? Crushed!

Dion was the only one I have seen do any dancing and it work for him. But even with him he didn't dance as much as cut side to side.

How many long runs has Marshell broke after all the dancing around? He does better when he hits the hole hard and runs through the tackle's. IMO he is a better power runner then he is finesse. If he keeps doing it it will more then hurt the team, he will and up hurting himself!

silkamilkamonico
12-16-2007, 03:41 AM
Chad Johnson is a cancer. Please keep him away from Denver.

Poet
12-16-2007, 08:15 AM
Chad Johnson is a cancer. Please keep him away from Denver.

Oh how the uninformed speak. How is he a cancer? You realize before this year everyone in the medie loved Chad Johnson. Then this year we start losing, Mortensen reports false trade talks and BAM CJ is somehow the worst thing in the world.

I would try to become a little bit more informed about things before I spoke about them.

SR
12-16-2007, 08:27 AM
I'd take CJ and his dumbass end-zone celebrations over TO and Moss any day. He's not a cancer, nor is he bad for the LR. He's a great personality, good guy in the community, and just likes to have fun. He wants what all players his caliber want, the Lombardi.

If Denver had a chance at getting CJ, I'd go for him. You know the second he started to pull some **** he'd be out faster than you could say "Bye".

champbronc2
12-16-2007, 10:13 AM
I think they commented during the game or maybe it was pregame that he practice forever making catches with his hands, they said he has some of the strongest hands they had ever seen..

Does he worry me about trying to make 5 more yards after the catch when he has 4-5 guys trying to tackle him. They also commented that he does not like to go out of bounds..

That bothers me a lot as it is a sure way of getting knee taken out or getting concussed..
I remember the play where he made nothing out of something.:rolleyes:

He needs to watch out for that because he has gotten close to getting dropped for huge losses and has a few times.

pnbronco
12-16-2007, 11:11 AM
I remember the play where he made nothing out of something.:rolleyes:

He needs to watch out for that because he has gotten close to getting dropped for huge losses and has a few times.

I agree. He has great energy and tries to make every play work, but you have to play smart too. He did lose yards the other night. I think I read somewhere that when he was a kid he would practice hand control with wet soap. The main thing I worry about is him getting hurt. I really want to see this kid play a long time and be able to walk when he's done. The same goes for Sheff too.

SR
12-16-2007, 11:13 AM
Eddie Mac and Jeb Putzier are still walking and they've taken some of the nastiest hits I've ever seen.

pnbronco
12-16-2007, 11:18 AM
Eddie Mac and Jeb Putzier are still walking and they've taken some of the nastiest hits I've ever seen.

But Mac never played the same after he broke his leg on Sept 10 and Rod played for many more years.

SR
12-16-2007, 11:23 AM
But Mac never played the same after he broke his leg on Sept 10 and Rod played for many more years.

His leg didn't heal right is why. Who said anything about Rod?

fcspikeit
12-16-2007, 12:31 PM
yeah yeah yeah ive heard this all before 2 years ago when we had the chance to get owens you guys were crying not to get him. he led the league in tds with 13 that year and this year he has 14 with 3 games still to go. then we could have got a guy by the name of randy moss who leads the league this year with 19tds for only a 3rd rounder. both guys dramatically changed their teams for the better. dont like them as individuals well thats fine but as ive said before stats dont lie and cj produces on the field. id gladly put up with his after the td celebrations if it means we score in the red zone.

its not about looking for another #1 or #2 wr its about finding the best player we can get at wr. yeah marshal might be a #1 wr now but that doesn't mean we cant have two #1's. if walker is cut then i dont want some cast away like lelie coming in only to put up 500 yards for the year with 1 td. if thats the case then id rather us just take our chances with javon. you dont give up a bmw to get a hyundai....you give up a bmw to get a benz.


I have to admit, I was tempted to get TO but I am glad we didn't get him because he is all about "I love me some me".

Now Moss on the other hand, I can't believe we didn't go after him! A third round pick, are you kidding me? What WR are we going to draft in the 3rd round that is better then Moss? He has never bee a cancer like TO and CJ, ( I will get back to that in a sec)

Look at it this way, right now he is on pace to brake almost all of Rice's records. When he gets inducted into the HOF we will see how dumb not trading s 3rd round pick for him really was. The only receivers in the draft that were even close to him last year all went in the first round. It was worth the chance for a 3rd round pick! Even if he was a cancer to our team we would only be out a back up player or the camp fodder we normaly take in the 3rd round. Hell our 4th was higher then NE. We probably could have got him for a 4th rounder.

Back to T.O and C.J, One thing is for sure, if we had either of those guys there would be more talk about the Broncos on ESPN and such. But only because that is the team TO and CJ would be playing for. That's why I say they are a cancer. They are constantly singled out away from the team because of the antics. That don't go well with the rest of the team.

IMO Steve Smith is one of the top 3 WR in the game. Yet he never gets the air time as TO and CJ. Why is that? He brings as much or more to his team then what they do. The reason is because he isn't all about getting air time for himself after he scores.

DenBronx
12-16-2007, 12:53 PM
You mention Owens and Moss; despite their talent, it's their character that brings them or their team down, specially with Moss. Everyone praises Moss for his performance this year in NE, but he quit on his team in Oakland. Moss decides when Moss wants to play. Put him in a winning team with a great situation and he's happy; put him in a team that could really use his help and he tanks, wanting out, and infecting the locker room with his negativity.

Players with great talent but poor character are hit and miss; put them in a tough situation and you can't predict if they'll do their best for their team.

Johnson was happier last season, because he was the focus, and TJ was just his sidekick. Now that TJ's been outperforming him, getting the majority of the TDs, Johnson is complaining and wants out. He could do the same if he were here.

thats why i said aside from their antics they still produce. i think 99% of the wr's in the nfl would have been just as disgusted if they were a raider. moss i think feels like he is still in the prime of his career and wants to win a championship...most players do.

on tj, i think your right about that. he has been outperforming him but i think chad wants out for more reasons than that. his team is very inconsistant and they are far from a playoff team. he has been there for his whole career and i think he just wants to move on. chad has been injured this year by a hamstring...so thats why tj has been outperforming him.


Good post..

Once again everyone is focused on flash instead of substance..

i think im more focused on performance.

i love javon but i dont want to see what happened this year also be a problem next year. if javons knee problems cease then id take javon over anyone in the nfl....but thats hard to say.

DenBronx
12-16-2007, 01:00 PM
I'd take CJ and his dumbass end-zone celebrations over TO and Moss any day. He's not a cancer, nor is he bad for the LR. He's a great personality, good guy in the community, and just likes to have fun. He wants what all players his caliber want, the Lombardi.

If Denver had a chance at getting CJ, I'd go for him. You know the second he started to pull some **** he'd be out faster than you could say "Bye".

the only problem with cj is he likes to showboat after a td. he does not disrupt the spirit in the locker room like t.o. so thats the differance....i don't get how some guys say he is a locker room cancer because he is not! cj just loves football and sometimes he does stupid things after scoring like grabbing the camera....

...kinda like marshal threw snow...but somehow that gets swept under the rug. look when our wr's start getting into the endzone like the pats, bengals and cowboys wr's do you really wont care will you? it's their money .... not yours...so if they want to get fined then that's up to them.


Eddie Mac and Jeb Putzier are still walking and they've taken some of the nastiest hits I've ever seen.

eddie was a tough s.o.b. so was sharpe.

silkamilkamonico
12-16-2007, 01:47 PM
Oh how the uninformed speak. How is he a cancer? You realize before this year everyone in the medie loved Chad Johnson. Then this year we start losing, Mortensen reports false trade talks and BAM CJ is somehow the worst thing in the world.

I would try to become a little bit more informed about things before I spoke about them.

Yea, I want an ego like Chad Johnson shaping the young mind of Brandon Marshall.

Like I said earlier, Chad Johnson and Brandon Marshall would be the most arrogant set of WR's in the NFL, and that's the last thing that would work on a Shanahan offense, or what Denver needs.

"I would try to become a little bit more informed about things before I 'reacted' about them."

omac
12-16-2007, 01:49 PM
Look at it this way, right now he is on pace to brake almost all of Rice's records. When he gets inducted into the HOF we will see how dumb not trading s 3rd round pick for him really was. The only receivers in the draft that were even close to him last year all went in the first round. It was worth the chance for a 3rd round pick! Even if he was a cancer to our team we would only be out a back up player or the camp fodder we normaly take in the 3rd round. Hell our 4th was higher then NE. We probably could have got him for a 4th rounder.

That's a very interesting point of view, and normally, if the Broncos thought that WR was a possition in need, then that's really something to think about. But the Broncos felt they were set at WR with Javon and the emerging star Marshall, as well as a good TE catching threat in Scheffler. WR was not a possition of need, to risk a 3rd or 4th rounder on a malcontent who made it perfectly clear that he doesn't even practice when he doesn't want to. That's a huge character risk who can be a cancer to the young players, whether he plays or not.

What the Broncos felt they needed to address was their defensive and offensive line. They got Marcus Thomas in round 4, which is turning out to be a steal, and Ryan Harris in round 3 for the offensive line. Also, they traded one of their 3rd round picks to move up to get Jarvis Moss. Those were much more important moves for the team, based on necessity. Moss would be hit or miss with his character, and he even mentioned before the trades that he only wanted to play for a superbowl team. No matter, we probably wouldn't be able to get Jarvis Moss, Harris, or Thomas if we traded for Moss.

omac
12-16-2007, 02:03 PM
i think 99% of the wr's in the nfl would have been just as disgusted if they were a raider.

I have to disagree on that; a player is either a true professional, or he isn't. If a true pro like Rod Smith was with the Raiders, I'm pretty sure he'd give his best effort both in the game and in practice.


i think chad wants out for more reasons than that. his team is very inconsistant and they are far from a playoff team. he has been there for his whole career and i think he just wants to move on.

If that's the reason, I guess that's alright; a change of scenery from a team that keeps getting down on themselves is probably good. I still think it's more of him wanting to be the focus, but I could be wrong. One thing he has over Moss; he doesn't tank, he plays hard, whether he wants to be on the team or not.

fcspikeit
12-16-2007, 02:18 PM
the only problem with cj is he likes to showboat after a td. he does not disrupt the spirit in the locker room like t.o. so thats the differance....i don't get how some guys say he is a locker room cancer because he is not! cj just loves football and sometimes he does stupid things after scoring like grabbing the camera....

...kinda like marshal threw snow...but somehow that gets swept under the rug. look when our wr's start getting into the endzone like the pats, bengals and cowboys wr's do you really wont care will you? it's their money .... not yours...so if they want to get fined then that's up to them.

We clearly disagree with the affect the TD celebrations have on the team. If for no other reasons it affects the team negatively because of all the people that share my opinion. Rather the players agree with the show boating or not, It takes the talk off of the team and off of football. It causes division because some players just don't like it. Those players hate it when all they see from the highlights are so and so dancing after scoring a TD.

For example, I play in a lot of Volleyball tournaments. I am very competitive, I make a lot of noise when my team does something big. Just yesterday my brother and I were double blocking and got a couple roof tops in a row. With each one we made more noise. On the second one we were both flexing and screaming in each others face. To the point everyone in the gym was watching our game. After I would crush a 1 (Quick set in the middle) I beat my chest and screamed some more :)

I have played with players who don't like this, I never play with them again. I am all in all the time, with me its all about winning. If someone on my team is emberised by me it is hard to play as a team.

That is just an example because its not really the same as doing a dance after a TD. I don't do it to get attention, it is more uncontrollable excitement then anything else.

Marshall throwing snow is not the same as CJ running over to the camera. Marshall was having fun like when GB does the lambough leap or TD saluting. It wasn't saying all eyes better be on me because I am the show.

Lonestar
12-16-2007, 04:45 PM
I have to admit, I was tempted to get TO but I am glad we didn't get him because he is all about "I love me some me".

Now Moss on the other hand, I can't believe we didn't go after him! A third round pick, are you kidding me? What WR are we going to draft in the 3rd round that is better then Moss? He has never bee a cancer like TO and CJ, ( I will get back to that in a sec)

Look at it this way, right now he is on pace to brake almost all of Rice's records. When he gets inducted into the HOF we will see how dumb not trading s 3rd round pick for him really was. The only receivers in the draft that were even close to him last year all went in the first round. It was worth the chance for a 3rd round pick! Even if he was a cancer to our team we would only be out a back up player or the camp fodder we normaly take in the 3rd round. Hell our 4th was higher then NE. We probably could have got him for a 4th rounder.

Back to T.O and C.J, One thing is for sure, if we had either of those guys there would be more talk about the Broncos on ESPN and such. But only because that is the team TO and CJ would be playing for. That's why I say they are a cancer. They are constantly singled out away from the team because of the antics. That don't go well with the rest of the team.

IMO Steve Smith is one of the top 3 WR in the game. Yet he never gets the air time as TO and CJ. Why is that? He brings as much or more to his team then what they do. The reason is because he isn't all about getting air time for himself after he scores.

But you also have to remember that Moss was a raider and I doubt that al davis would have given him up to us for any draft choice..

That said he was a cancer on their team and not been a great player in MIN after Dante was hurt.. So while NE took a chance on him, it was a HUGE one, one taht Mikey would not have done espocially at what davis would have wanted IMO.

Lonestar
12-16-2007, 04:47 PM
That's a very interesting point of view, and normally, if the Broncos thought that WR was a possition in need, then that's really something to think about. But the Broncos felt they were set at WR with Javon and the emerging star Marshall, as well as a good TE catching threat in Scheffler. WR was not a possition of need, to risk a 3rd or 4th rounder on a malcontent who made it perfectly clear that he doesn't even practice when he doesn't want to. That's a huge character risk who can be a cancer to the young players, whether he plays or not.

What the Broncos felt they needed to address was their defensive and offensive line. They got Marcus Thomas in round 4, which is turning out to be a steal, and Ryan Harris in round 3 for the offensive line. Also, they traded one of their 3rd round picks to move up to get Jarvis Moss. Those were much more important moves for the team, based on necessity. Moss would be hit or miss with his character, and he even mentioned before the trades that he only wanted to play for a superbowl team. No matter, we probably wouldn't be able to get Jarvis Moss, Harris, or Thomas if we traded for Moss.


Also great points

Again everyone focused on flash and not substance..

fcspikeit
12-16-2007, 05:16 PM
Also great points

Again everyone focused on flash and not substance..

Jr, it isn't just flash when a guy has the Currier #'s that moss has :listen:

He has produced a lot of substance compared to even the best WR's of all time!

You could be right about Davis though? I thought they wanted a third rounder from us for him? Or did the talks never get that serious?

Lonestar
12-16-2007, 05:28 PM
Jr, it isn't just flash when a guy has the Currier #'s that moss has :listen:

He has produced a lot of substance compared to even the best WR's of all time!

You could be right about Davis though? I thought they wanted a third rounder from us for him? Or did the talks never get that serious?

He would have been worth a 3 or 4 but again with our per se run first offense how long do you think he would have been happy and not causing issues on this team..

Just because he has lit it up this year with Brady does not mean at all he would have done it with Jay.. Those two OLINES are light years apart.. and we all know that Moss is more of a deeper pattern guy than we have had time to throw to this year..

We need to have the basics down pat before we worry about the icing.. IMHO

Again I doubt that al davis would have given him up to Mikey at any cost..

fcspikeit
12-16-2007, 05:41 PM
He would have been worth a 3 or 4 but again with our per se run first offense how long do you think he would have been happy and not causing issues on this team..

Just because he has lit it up this year with Brady does not mean at all he would have done it with Jay.. Those two OLINES are light years apart.. and we all know that Moss is more of a deeper pattern guy than we have had time to throw to this year..

We need to have the basics down pat before we worry about the icing.. IMHO

Again I doubt that al davis would have given him up to Mikey at any cost..


I doubt his #'s would have been as good with us.

But the Pat's weren't always a pass happy team. They only are now because they have the team to do it (Mostly because of Moss).

That is the great thing about Belacheck,,, He allows his team to play to their strength. Makes his system work for his players. Shanahan on the other hand needs players to fit into his system.;)

You could be right about Davis? As I said, I thought they talked and he wanted a third round pick for him?

Lonestar
12-16-2007, 05:53 PM
I doubt his #'s would have been as good with us.

But the Pat's weren't always a pass happy team. They only are now because they have the team to do it (Mostly because of Moss).

That is the great thing about Belacheck,,, He allows his team to play to their strength. Makes his system work for his players. Shanahan on the other hand needs players to fit into his system.;)

You could be right about Davis? As I said, I thought they talked and he wanted a third round pick for him?

Brady is as we speak and much better QB than Jay is and their OLINE is not comparable either.

SO while he would have helped a bit the potential for issues IMO out weighed getting even IF davis would have traded to us..

Poet
12-16-2007, 06:08 PM
Yea, I want an ego like Chad Johnson shaping the young mind of Brandon Marshall.

Like I said earlier, Chad Johnson and Brandon Marshall would be the most arrogant set of WR's in the NFL, and that's the last thing that would work on a Shanahan offense, or what Denver needs.

"I would try to become a little bit more informed about things before I 'reacted' about them."

Chad Johnson is not even remotely arrogant. You realize that he is joking right? Interview after interview the guy has said that all joking aside he is not the best WR in football because his team is not a yearly playoff participant.

I would try to become more informed about things before I talked about them.

fcspikeit
12-16-2007, 06:43 PM
Brady is as we speak and much better QB than Jay is and their OLINE is not comparable either.

SO while he would have helped a bit the potential for issues IMO out weighed getting even IF Davis would have traded to us..

I agree that its hard to complain when your the top WR on the best team in football that is 14 - 0 or 13 - 1 (T.O.)

If they were playing for a team that was 6 - 8 they might be singing a different tune. Not that I blame them though. Who wants to play for a losing team if you don't feel the team is doing all it can to win. So far T.O. has not been proven wrong about Mcnabb and we all know Davis's ego is even stronger then his desire to "just win baby"

If they second guessed Shanahan's play calling he wouldn't take it. So with the coach we have and system we run they probably wouldn't fit in vary well here.

Even with all that said,, If we could have got him for a 4th rounder pick I say it's worth the risk! We could have always used him for trading material, I hear GB wanted him ;)

silkamilkamonico
12-16-2007, 08:21 PM
Chad Johnson is not even remotely arrogant. You realize that he is joking right? Interview after interview the guy has said that all joking aside he is not the best WR in football because his team is not a yearly playoff participant.

I would try to become more informed about things before I talked about them.

Chad Johnson not even remotely arrogant is a joke statement.

Barry Sanders was "not even remotely arrogant". LT is "not even remotely arrogant". Darrell Jackson is "not even remotely arrogant". Andre Johnson is "not even remotely arrogant". And I'm supposed to somehow think Chad Johnson belongs in that group of "not even remotely arrogant" players?

There goes that argument.

Poet
12-16-2007, 08:30 PM
Chad Johnson not even remotely arrogant is a joke statement.

Barry Sanders was "not even remotely arrogant". LT is "not even remotely arrogant". Darrell Jackson is "not even remotely arrogant". Andre Johnson is "not even remotely arrogant". And I'm supposed to somehow think Chad Johnson belongs in that group of "not even remotely arrogant" players?

There goes that argument.

1. making claims or pretensions to superior importance or rights; overbearingly assuming; insolently proud: an arrogant public official.

Straight out of dictionary.com CJ does not make claims to superior importance or rights. His TD celebrations are a joke, very few people actually take offense to them. His claims of being a great WR are true, the guy is going to the HOF when his career is over, deal with it. He says it as a joke, there is not a mean or arrogant bone in his body.

So somehow the guy that sleeps at the stadium all night watching game tape is a cancer. I guess the guy that Carson Palmer and Marvin Lewis say is the hardest worker on the team is a cancer. I guess the guy that the team rallies around is a cancer. Newsflash, you can joke around and do a little celebration in the endzone and not be arrogant.

broncosfanscott
12-17-2007, 01:44 AM
I absolutly love the way that Marshall plays the game and wouldn't want him to change at all because it is easier to get injured when you are trying not to as opposed to just playing. The kid is a gamer and it is those yards after the catch that make Marshall who his is.

champbronc2
12-17-2007, 06:24 AM
I agree. He has great energy and tries to make every play work, but you have to play smart too. He did lose yards the other night. I think I read somewhere that when he was a kid he would practice hand control with wet soap. The main thing I worry about is him getting hurt. I really want to see this kid play a long time and be able to walk when he's done. The same goes for Sheff too.
Sheff gets rocked way too often :laugh:

SR
12-17-2007, 06:46 AM
1. making claims or pretensions to superior importance or rights; overbearingly assuming; insolently proud: an arrogant public official.

Straight out of dictionary.com CJ does not make claims to superior importance or rights. His TD celebrations are a joke, very few people actually take offense to them. His claims of being a great WR are true, the guy is going to the HOF when his career is over, deal with it. He says it as a joke, there is not a mean or arrogant bone in his body.

So somehow the guy that sleeps at the stadium all night watching game tape is a cancer. I guess the guy that Carson Palmer and Marvin Lewis say is the hardest worker on the team is a cancer. I guess the guy that the team rallies around is a cancer. Newsflash, you can joke around and do a little celebration in the endzone and not be arrogant.

CJ is as arrogant as they come...hate to break it to you. That's his big downfall. His end zone celebrations stem from his arrogance. It's not a bad thing, but it's not necessarily a good thing either. You don't see the all time greats like Jerry Rice, Cris Carter, etc, celebrating like that when they catch a TD. They might have spiked the ball or sometimes done some little thing, but they never did some of the stuff "Ocho Cinco" does. Like I said, it might not be a bad thing, but some of the coaches in this league don't want that kind of "me first" personality on their team.

And FWIW, he hasn't done squat to deserve HOF type praise. There are at least a half dozen recievers in the league that are better than him either statistically or skill wise.

Poet
12-17-2007, 09:14 AM
CJ is as arrogant as they come...hate to break it to you. That's his big downfall. His end zone celebrations stem from his arrogance. It's not a bad thing, but it's not necessarily a good thing either. You don't see the all time greats like Jerry Rice, Cris Carter, etc, celebrating like that when they catch a TD. They might have spiked the ball or sometimes done some little thing, but they never did some of the stuff "Ocho Cinco" does. Like I said, it might not be a bad thing, but some of the coaches in this league don't want that kind of "me first" personality on their team.

And FWIW, he hasn't done squat to deserve HOF type praise. There are at least a half dozen recievers in the league that are better than him either statistically or skill wise.

In this day and age he is not arrogant. This is a new NFL, and a new day. The guy is not arrogant, not even remotely so. Does the say that he is a great WR? Sure, does he say it with a smile on his face? Did he or did not not stop up when the Bengals where on a skid? He is a business first type of guy. Very few people can outwork Chad Johnson. How many guys sleep at the stadium all night watching film? Chad Johnson gets praise from his teammates for his worth ethic. Chad Johnson sings the praise of his teammates too. All this "CJ is a cancer and a distraction crap" started this year when he was yelling at Carson Palmer at the end of the first half of the patriots game. What I find funny about that is that I have seen Carson Palmer up in CJs face before yelling. So why isn't Carson Palmer the "cancer"? Until this year no one had a problem with CJ barring a few sportswriters here and there. Celebrating a touchdown does not make one arrogant. HAVING FUN and JOKING does not make one arrogant. Hell, in half of his big TD celebrations he has celebrated with other people or for other people. How about the one with Peter Warrick where they acted like they where taking pictures of each other? Or the one where he stuck up for his friend T.O? Yeah, he is sure a me first guy huh? He is such a "me first" type of guy that he will play hurt or take a massive shot over the middle any day of the week. People has these huge misconceptions about CJ and if they watched Bengal games and saw how he played they would get it. But they don't and when ESPN loves CJ they love CJ, when ESPN has beef with CJ then they have beef with CJ.

You point out the Ocho Cinco stuff, guess what that was? A joke. If anyone seriously thinks that CJ thinks he is the best WR ever or the best player in the NFL then they are either A. talking out of their arse, B. uninformed, or C.follow so little Bengal football that they have no clue at all in the slightest as to what they are saying.

CJ is on a hall of fame career SR. He is the only WR to ever lead his conference in yardage four times in a row. That is a massive accomplishment that is rarely mentioned. He averages 90 catches a year and about 1300 yards with about 8 TDs a year. He is a clutch performer for us and plays in the toughest defensive division year in and year out. As far as skill wise goes who? You got TO, Randy Moss and Marvin Harrison, then who else? Steve "I cannot play an entire year healthy and is injury prone"Smith? CJ puts up monster stats year after year after year after year. Go look at his stats, then pull up a lot of other Wideouts stats. The guy has been killing secondaries his entire career.

SR
12-17-2007, 10:02 AM
In this day and age he is not arrogant. This is a new NFL, and a new day. The guy is not arrogant, not even remotely so. Does the say that he is a great WR? Sure, does he say it with a smile on his face? Did he or did not not stop up when the Bengals where on a skid? He is a business first type of guy. Very few people can outwork Chad Johnson. How many guys sleep at the stadium all night watching film? Chad Johnson gets praise from his teammates for his worth ethic. Chad Johnson sings the praise of his teammates too. All this "CJ is a cancer and a distraction crap" started this year when he was yelling at Carson Palmer at the end of the first half of the patriots game. What I find funny about that is that I have seen Carson Palmer up in CJs face before yelling. So why isn't Carson Palmer the "cancer"? Until this year no one had a problem with CJ barring a few sportswriters here and there. Celebrating a touchdown does not make one arrogant. HAVING FUN and JOKING does not make one arrogant. Hell, in half of his big TD celebrations he has celebrated with other people or for other people. How about the one with Peter Warrick where they acted like they where taking pictures of each other? Or the one where he stuck up for his friend T.O? Yeah, he is sure a me first guy huh? He is such a "me first" type of guy that he will play hurt or take a massive shot over the middle any day of the week. People has these huge misconceptions about CJ and if they watched Bengal games and saw how he played they would get it. But they don't and when ESPN loves CJ they love CJ, when ESPN has beef with CJ then they have beef with CJ.

You point out the Ocho Cinco stuff, guess what that was? A joke. If anyone seriously thinks that CJ thinks he is the best WR ever or the best player in the NFL then they are either A. talking out of their arse, B. uninformed, or C.follow so little Bengal football that they have no clue at all in the slightest as to what they are saying.

CJ is on a hall of fame career SR. He is the only WR to ever lead his conference in yardage four times in a row. That is a massive accomplishment that is rarely mentioned. He averages 90 catches a year and about 1300 yards with about 8 TDs a year. He is a clutch performer for us and plays in the toughest defensive division year in and year out. As far as skill wise goes who? You got TO, Randy Moss and Marvin Harrison, then who else? Steve "I cannot play an entire year healthy and is injury prone"Smith? CJ puts up monster stats year after year after year after year. Go look at his stats, then pull up a lot of other Wideouts stats. The guy has been killing secondaries his entire career.

that is the definition of arrogant! Jesus dude...pull your head out. I didn't say that he's not a good reciever and I didn't say that him being arrogant makes him a cancer. I didn't say anything about Ocho Cinco, I just used the term in a sentence. You're reading too far in to things. Also, get ready for a lesson. Ready?

Chad Johnson has been in the league for seven years. You say he's HOF material. He hasn't accomplished jack compared to what HOF recievers have. But yet, in your mind, Terrell Davis who SET MULTIPLE NFL RECORDS isn't a HOF running back. You're inconsistent, have no clue what the hell you're talking about half the time, and are a total contradiction. Get your **** straight or quit talking football.

silkamilkamonico
12-17-2007, 01:08 PM
Chad Johnson has had 6 big seasons. That's hardly HOF numbers in this day and age. He'll likely get there if he continues to play like this for a few more seasons, but he needs a few more. Torry Holt has 8 straight 1000 yard seasons. IS he an automatic HOF? Holt also has a SuperBowl win. Does Chad Johnson even have a playoff win?

Chad will get there, but to say he's a HOF now is absurd.

How many celebration penalties does the guy have in his career compared to other WR's? I don't know, I'm curious......

Skillwise, Johnson isn't tops in the NFL. Top WR's in the NFL don't get tackled by gusts of wind. He's more like a Marvin Harrison in which he's a great route runner and hands. Let's just hope it's not very windy out though.

SR
12-17-2007, 01:51 PM
If CJ wants a goal in the NFL, it should be to learn how to play like Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, Terrell Owens, Andre Johnson, Lee Evans, and other big, physical WRs that get yards after the catch and after contact.

He is a hell of a WR though and I'd love him on my team any time, unless of course he is a downgrade, which is possible if Javon can get healthy. If Javon and Marshall can both stay healthy, there wouldn't be many tandems in the NFL that are as lethal as those two on the same field together.

Stand Ablaze
12-17-2007, 02:40 PM
If CJ wants a goal in the NFL, it should be to learn how to play like Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, Terrell Owens, Andre Johnson, Lee Evans, and other big, physical WRs that get yards after the catch and after contact.

He is a hell of a WR though and I'd love him on my team any time, unless of course he is a downgrade, which is possible if Javon can get healthy. If Javon and Marshall can both stay healthy, there wouldn't be many tandems in the NFL that are as lethal as those two on the same field together.

Don't forget about Stokley in the slot. ;)

SR
12-17-2007, 02:43 PM
Don't forget about Stokley in the slot. ;)

Sheesh. Silly me. ;)

Poet
12-17-2007, 08:42 PM
that is the definition of arrogant! Jesus dude...pull your head out. I didn't say that he's not a good reciever and I didn't say that him being arrogant makes him a cancer. I didn't say anything about Ocho Cinco, I just used the term in a sentence. You're reading too far in to things. Also, get ready for a lesson. Ready?

Chad Johnson has been in the league for seven years. You say he's HOF material. He hasn't accomplished jack compared to what HOF recievers have. But yet, in your mind, Terrell Davis who SET MULTIPLE NFL RECORDS isn't a HOF running back. You're inconsistent, have no clue what the hell you're talking about half the time, and are a total contradiction. Get your **** straight or quit talking football.

Saying that you are arrogant with a smile on your face joking aside and then give credit to a lot of WRs who you say are better than you is not arrogant. I posted the definition of arrogance a few posts up. I would familiarize yourself with the definition if I where you.

He is hall of fame material, look at the pace at which the guy is on. And as far as records go leading your conference in receiving yards four times in a row is a record. And a mighty fine record to have at that. Terrel Davis had a short but brilliant career. Chad Johnson is going to end up in the top ten in almost every single statistical category for a WR of all time. As far as total contradiction goes I am arguing that the way he does it does not make him arrogant.

I have not been saying that Chad Johnson could retire right now and get into the hall of fame, I am saying that when his career is done and over at the end of the day his numbers will put him into the hall of fame. And when you pull up his stat sheet and look at where he is going to end up it is pretty damn hard to disagree with me.

Poet
12-17-2007, 08:47 PM
If CJ wants a goal in the NFL, it should be to learn how to play like Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, Terrell Owens, Andre Johnson, Lee Evans, and other big, physical WRs that get yards after the catch and after contact.

He is a hell of a WR though and I'd love him on my team any time, unless of course he is a downgrade, which is possible if Javon can get healthy. If Javon and Marshall can both stay healthy, there wouldn't be many tandems in the NFL that are as lethal as those two on the same field together.

I will give you that Chad Johnson is not very good with the yards after the catch. However, Everyone on that list of yours could easily strive to be as consistent year after year after year like CJ, barring Terrel Owens of course.

And yes, with Javon Walker, Brandon Marshall, Stokely and that Tight End whose name Schfeller (I have no clue how to spell it) you would have a sick receiving core.

Poet
12-17-2007, 08:50 PM
Chad Johnson has had 6 big seasons. That's hardly HOF numbers in this day and age. He'll likely get there if he continues to play like this for a few more seasons, but he needs a few more. Torry Holt has 8 straight 1000 yard seasons. IS he an automatic HOF? Holt also has a SuperBowl win. Does Chad Johnson even have a playoff win?

Chad will get there, but to say he's a HOF now is absurd.

How many celebration penalties does the guy have in his career compared to other WR's? I don't know, I'm curious......

Skillwise, Johnson isn't tops in the NFL. Top WR's in the NFL don't get tackled by gusts of wind. He's more like a Marvin Harrison in which he's a great route runner and hands. Let's just hope it's not very windy out though.

Does Chad Johnson play on a team that is not consistently the laughing stock of the NFL? Does Chad Johnson play on a team with defense? Does Chad Johnson play on a team where arrests and suspensions depleted the team? Does Chad Johnson play defense? The answer to all of those questions except the third are no. Here is another question for you guys, does Chad Johnson do his job extremely well? Yes he does, if he keeps it up barring injury will he have HOF numbers? Yes, yes he will.

Top WR's catch the ball and make plays. The best WR in this era has been Marvin Harrison in my opinion, although you could make an argument for Randy Moss or TO. His job is to catch the ball and chew up yardage, and he does. What you are doing is nitpicking, and it is not working.

Hawgdriver
12-17-2007, 10:13 PM
Does anyone get the feeling that he's either going to cough up a crucial fumble or get injured during one of his episodes of freelancing with the football? I have mixed feelings. I like that we have a WR who can run with the ball but I kind of hold my breath.

That's a really good point. I always hate a returner or a receiver that unsuccessfully tries to turn every routine play into highlight material when all you need is solid yardage. B. Marsh has shown some incredible talent for converting simple receptions into mega-YACs. The play last game that we're all thinking about--the one that started with the "B. Marsh shiver" stiffarm--showed that he might be trying to do too much.

I think every now and then even the best WRs take risks to gain extra yardage. So far, B. Marsh hasn't been making many mistakes when he takes risks. In fact, he's been exceptional so far, overall, especially when you think about how inexperienced he is.

I'm hoping we have a long time to watch B. Marsh take risks on the field. If his first full season is any indication, he's got a knack for taking chances that pay off. And you have to love the electricity and power he brings every time he touches the ball. Heck, every time the ball is snapped, when you think about his desire to pancake DBs!!

DenBronx
12-18-2007, 01:24 AM
http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

MARSHALL MELTDOWN IN DENVER?

There's a rumor making the rounds that Broncos receiver Brandon Marshall got into a verbal altercation with one or more members of the coaching staff on Monday, and then stormed out of the facility.

The talk is that Marshall at one point challenged the team to "cut me."

We're in the process of confirming (and/or debunking) this rumor. But, hey, we've got a Live Blog to do.

The tall, speedy Marshall caught 11 passes for 107 yards in the team's most recent game, last Thursday night against the Texans




man i hope this isnt the beggining of the end. money usually solves alot of issues especially if your team isnt anywhere near a superbowl contender. i just hope this isnt true. marshal isnt the first to come down on the staff....looks like the locker room is starting to devide. guys on this team just want to win. id like to see some leaders step up so blow ups dont happen. someone needs to put these young guys in check.

Stargazer
12-18-2007, 02:13 AM
Does anyone get the feeling that he's either going to cough up a crucial fumble or get injured during one of his episodes of freelancing with the football? I have mixed feelings. I like that we have a WR who can run with the ball but I kind of hold my breath.

To answer your question. No. Not at all. I am very happy with the ball in his hands.

Stargazer
12-18-2007, 02:16 AM
We're in the process of confirming (and/or debunking) this rumor.


Oh boy.:tsk:

Baby TO is the next TO!:laugh:

omac
12-18-2007, 04:23 AM
http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

MARSHALL MELTDOWN IN DENVER?

There's a rumor making the rounds that Broncos receiver Brandon Marshall got into a verbal altercation with one or more members of the coaching staff on Monday, and then stormed out of the facility.

The talk is that Marshall at one point challenged the team to "cut me."

We're in the process of confirming (and/or debunking) this rumor. But, hey, we've got a Live Blog to do.

The tall, speedy Marshall caught 11 passes for 107 yards in the team's most recent game, last Thursday night against the Texans




man i hope this isnt the beggining of the end. money usually solves alot of issues especially if your team isnt anywhere near a superbowl contender. i just hope this isnt true. marshal isnt the first to come down on the staff....looks like the locker room is starting to devide. guys on this team just want to win. id like to see some leaders step up so blow ups dont happen. someone needs to put these young guys in check.

Lots of sensationalism on that site. When a more credible site reports it, then it's something to think of.

silkamilkamonico
12-18-2007, 01:01 PM
Lots of sensationalism on that site. When a more credible site reports it, then it's something to think of.

Where there's smoke there's fire. I'm sure it didn't go quite down like that, but something must have happened for them to write a story, they aren't going to reach with something like that.

I'm going to be seriously PO if something happens with Marshall. Denver has been waiting for a passionate player like him, and it wouldn't surprise me if any of this is true Shanahan went out and traded him.

Hawgdriver
12-18-2007, 01:20 PM
http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

MARSHALL MELTDOWN IN DENVER?

There's a rumor making the rounds that Broncos receiver Brandon Marshall got into a verbal altercation with one or more members of the coaching staff on Monday, and then stormed out of the facility.

The talk is that Marshall at one point challenged the team to "cut me."

We're in the process of confirming (and/or debunking) this rumor. But, hey, we've got a Live Blog to do.

The tall, speedy Marshall caught 11 passes for 107 yards in the team's most recent game, last Thursday night against the Texans




man i hope this isnt the beggining of the end. money usually solves alot of issues especially if your team isnt anywhere near a superbowl contender. i just hope this isnt true. marshal isnt the first to come down on the staff....looks like the locker room is starting to devide. guys on this team just want to win. id like to see some leaders step up so blow ups dont happen. someone needs to put these young guys in check.

Confrontation and argument are often healthy, and a sign of clear communication. If this rumor is true, let's hope the passion of both Brandon and the coaching staff is tempered by the fact that they need each other for success of the team.

I have no problem with some tempers rising and some heated words.

It can get ugly when both sides are convinced that the other is impeding the team's success...or personal success. I see B. Marsh as a central player in the success of the team, so it raises the question: what's it all about?

It's the dual edged sword to many great players--when too much (success) is not enough. It keeps driving them, but it never satisfies. The cultivated players can keep their hunger and dissatisfaction 'under wraps' from fans and coaches, but they all feel the same way inside. It's like the very passion that is the jewel and the source creates its own destruction.

It's weird, I want Brandon to conform, but I kinda understand, too.

My biggest hope is that this doesn't turn into a TO thing. Ugh.

Lonestar
12-18-2007, 01:44 PM
Confrontation and argument are often healthy, and a sign of clear communication. If this rumor is true, let's hope the passion of both Brandon and the coaching staff is tempered by the fact that they need each other for success of the team.

I have no problem with some tempers rising and some heated words.

It can get ugly when both sides are convinced that the other is impeding the team's success...or personal success. I see B. Marsh as a central player in the success of the team, so it raises the question: what's it all about?

It's the dual edged sword to many great players--when too much (success) is not enough. It keeps driving them, but it never satisfies. The cultivated players can keep their hunger and dissatisfaction 'under wraps' from fans and coaches, but they all feel the same way inside. It's like the very passion that is the jewel and the source creates its own destruction.

It's weird, I want Brandon to conform, but I kinda understand, too.

My biggest hope is that this doesn't turn into a TO thing. Ugh.


This kid has come a long way in a short time. My concerns are some moron agent whispering in his ear..
Also I could see some frustration of setting a record by the first play in the second quarter to not getting a look the rest of the game.

Something smells in DEN.

Would hope they can contain this and not let it get public as we all know what happens then.

Hawgdriver
12-18-2007, 01:57 PM
Would hope they can contain this and not let it get public as we all know what happens then.

Good point. If Brandon enables this to become public, then he'll have betrayed the team and lose our confidence. That was really what did TO in... If it never got public, he would have been fine. B. Marsh has a responsibility to keep it among the brothers. We all know that competitive teams can be a cauldron of stress, passion, and frustration, so let's not act surprised when a player acts like a human being. But it's when it becomes a media event that it turns into a distraction from the team's priority of getting results on the field.

Lonestar
12-18-2007, 02:03 PM
Good point. If Brandon enables this to become public, then he'll have betrayed the team and lose our confidence. That was really what did TO in... If it never got public, he would have been fine. B. Marsh has a responsibility to keep it among the brothers. We all know that competitive teams can be a cauldron of stress, passion, and frustration, so let's not act surprised when a player acts like a human being. But it's when it becomes a media event that it turns into a distraction from the team's priority of getting results on the field.

ashley went from hero to moron it two chats with a reporter..
and from a solid #2 on great team to NOWHERE on a bottom dweller in two years..

Hopefully Marshall will have someone whisper in his ear about this..

Poet
12-18-2007, 02:07 PM
ashley went from hero to moron it two chats with a reporter..
and from a solid #2 on great team to NOWHERE on a bottom dweller in two years..

Hopefully Marshall will have someone whisper in his ear about this..

What was the deal with Ashley Leleigh? He looked like he was going to be a beast and then..........he became a Falcon?

Lonestar
12-18-2007, 02:15 PM
What was the deal with Ashley Leleigh? He looked like he was going to be a beast and then..........he became a Falcon?

While he was out at the pro bowl and started talking to a DEN reporter about wanting a new contract.. Then he denied the report and then it got heated. It went downhill fast.. Walker was acquired and ashley traded in almost a heartbeat..

He kept think he was the #1 WR in DEN.. and wanted to be paid for it.

Please if I have something out of sequence here please let me know..


BTW he was never gonna be a beast all he could do was stretch the field.. he had NO YAC. He was a bad fit in DEN with existing personnel..

As it was plain to everyone he failed in ATL as well as in SFO..

SR
12-18-2007, 02:17 PM
People are making too big a deal out of B-Marsh's tangent. A team that is not used to losing in any way, shape, or form and people are pissed off. It'll blow over.

Lonestar
12-18-2007, 02:20 PM
People are making too big a deal out of B-Marsh's tangent. A team that is not used to losing in any way, shape, or form and people are pissed off. It'll blow over.

Lets hope so things are heated but something is a foot with them cutting Todd today. There is gonna be a lot of blood letting in mikeyville..

Mikey will be the last man standing, and I'm not all that sure is the right thing to happen.

SR
12-18-2007, 02:23 PM
Todd being cut had nothing to do with Marshall.

I'm sure, if what happened with Marshall is even true, it will blow over. Professional athletes are passionate people. When things don't go well, tempers flare and that passion to win comes out. Marshall is young and naive. We've got guys like Lynch, Bailey, Rod, Nalen, etc, who are or have all been some of the top players at their positions at one point in time in their career to help keep some of these young, arrogant kids grounded.

DenBronx
12-18-2007, 03:53 PM
Confrontation and argument are often healthy, and a sign of clear communication. If this rumor is true, let's hope the passion of both Brandon and the coaching staff is tempered by the fact that they need each other for success of the team.
I have no problem with some tempers rising and some heated words.

It can get ugly when both sides are convinced that the other is impeding the team's success...or personal success. I see B. Marsh as a central player in the success of the team, so it raises the question: what's it all about?

I think that Brandon was a little ticked off that we lost another game. It seems like this team mid season was content to just roll over and take their medicine. Brandon justs wants to win and he wants to win now. I think his passion for the game might have boiled into the locker room during practice. It seems like a few of the coaches/staff are mellon collie about losing.

But....I'd look into paying Marshall really soon if I were Denver just to keep him happy and in Denver. This kids a star and the team needs to continue to build and not regress.

Lonestar
12-18-2007, 04:07 PM
Todd being cut had nothing to do with Marshall.

I'm sure, if what happened with Marshall is even true, it will blow over. Professional athletes are passionate people. When things don't go well, tempers flare and that passion to win comes out. Marshall is young and naive. We've got guys like Lynch, Bailey, Rod, Nalen, etc, who are or have all been some of the top players at their positions at one point in time in their career to help keep some of these young, arrogant kids grounded.


I think it is just the tip of the iceberg..
I think your wrong about Todd being cut being a separate issue.

There is got to be a real **** storm going on in dove valley with getting there butts kicked by HOU a former QB for DEN with all their ex den players and staff.

I think Pat is asking some real hard questions and You have to believe that when or IF someone commented to Marshall that changes are gonna be made. He no doubt said something to the effect, I was all world in the first half and did not get a look after the first catch in the second half what more do you want out of me?

There is gonna be a lot of blood letting happen this off season after the HOU game. Just showed how wrong thing have got to be in DEN right now..

DenBronx
12-18-2007, 07:04 PM
I think it is just the tip of the iceberg..
I think your wrong about Todd being cut being a separate issue.

There is got to be a real **** storm going on in dove valley with getting there butts kicked by HOU a former QB for DEN with all their ex den players and staff.

I think Pat is asking some real hard questions and You have to believe that when or IF someone commented to Marshall that changes are gonna be made. He no doubt said something to the effect, I was all world in the first half and did not get a look after the first catch in the second half what more do you want out of me?

There is gonna be a lot of blood letting happen this off season after the HOU game. Just showed how wrong thing have got to be in DEN right now..


This season is by far the biggest dissapointing one that I can remember. Everything looked good on paper on who we got from the players to the coaches and you could tell even in preseason that something was severly off. The lack of leadership and chemistry problems on this team are by far one of the biggest problems.

I do see a house cleaning coming but I think Shanahan has to turn this ship around. I love the guy but I think he really needs to evaluate having Heimerdinger, Slowik and Bates. This team is in a really bad state right now from special teams and defense to offensive struggles in the redzone. I can see Shanahan cutting Todd for more than just off field issues though. This is just the beggining...This offseason might be just as busy as last offseason to figure this all out.


I wonder who is on the fence?

Hope J-Walk can recover fully. I hate us to lose him but I'd fully expect the Broncos to release him if he does not take a pay cut.

Lonestar
12-18-2007, 07:42 PM
This season is by far the biggest dissapointing one that I can remember. Everything looked good on paper on who we got from the players to the coaches and you could tell even in preseason that something was severly off. The lack of leadership and chemistry problems on this team are by far one of the biggest problems.

I do see a house cleaning coming but I think Shanahan has to turn this ship around. I love the guy but I think he really needs to evaluate having Heimerdinger, Slowik and Bates. This team is in a really bad state right now from special teams and defense to offensive struggles in the redzone. I can see Shanahan cutting Todd for more than just off field issues though. This is just the beggining...This offseason might be just as busy as last offseason to figure this all out.


I wonder who is on the fence?

Hope J-Walk can recover fully. I hate us to lose him but I'd fully expect the Broncos to release him if he does not take a pay cut.

Everyone but Jay.

I know that Bates is a good DC, just needs to be given players to work the scheme. They thought they had theose wide bodies in Kennedy and Warren. Only to find out they had no heart to play his style.. I think had DEN known that up front, they would have found another DT in the draft or FA..

silkamilkamonico
12-18-2007, 10:35 PM
We're watching the Broncos organization go down the drain right before our very eyes.

I bet 2 years down the road we won't even recognize the team that we have today because it will be filled with an entirely different roster.

Lonestar
12-18-2007, 11:32 PM
We're watching the Broncos organization go down the drain right before our very eyes.

I bet 2 years down the road we won't even recognize the team that we have today because it will be filled with an entirely different roster.

the last two drafts will be here along with DJ, Champ and bly. But beyond that it is anyones guess..

silkamilkamonico
12-18-2007, 11:56 PM
Sources have confirmed the Marshall incident, and apparently it was the WR coach that was involved. Bates's son.