I wouldnt change a thing...

[Northman]

The Bronco tenacity is back! Orton may not have looked awesome but its never been about 1 player. This is a real TEAM! Love it! 4-0 baby!

[Bozo Jr.]

Absolutely! I Love this team! Balls and Character! :salute:

[Tned]

Orton has a rep as a QB that just wins. That was greatly helped by a great defense for most of his starts, and a good one last year. I think there are a lot fewer questions tonight about if the Broncos defense is 'really' that good.

[Foochacho]

I have a feeling once that glove comes off our offense is going to look alot better.

[NightTrainLayne]

Orton has a rep as a QB that just wins. That was greatly helped by a great defense for most of his starts, and a good one last year. I think there are a lot fewer questions tonight about if the Broncos defense is 'really' that good.

There's no question left. That is one HELL of a defense. Dallas didn't score after the first quarter if my memory serves. That is huge.

[girler]

Absolutely! I Love this team! Balls and Character! :salute:

I love this team's balls and character too! :love:

[honz]

I have a feeling once that glove comes off our offense is going to look alot better.

I've been saying this for weeks...once the glove comes off and the neckbeard grows in a little thicker...watch out!

[Tned]

There's no question left. That is one HELL of a defense. Dallas didn't score after the first quarter if my memory serves. That is huge.

AND, they managed that while being on the field for 20 minutes in the first half. For them to spend that much time on the field, and still be able to buckle down and shut them out the last three quarters is amazing.

[Foochacho]

I've been saying this for weeks...once the glove comes off and the neckbeard grows in a little thicker...watch out!

Neckbeard is my adopted Bronco and he is making a speedy recovery. The weather is getting colder and that is when it is time for him to shine.

[Foochacho]

AND, they managed that while being on the field for 20 minutes in the first half. For them to spend that much time on the field, and still be able to buckle down and shut them out the last three quarters is amazing.

I wanted to puke when i saw the amount of time our D was out there. Dallas has the ability to break a long one out at any time. Our offense needs to control that clokc and convert some first downs. For our d to walk out of there with only giving up 10 points is incredible.

Penalties almost killed us today.

[EastCoastBronco]

Nolan is my adopted Bronco.... it's been a long time since I've seen a D like this in Denver...

[EastCoastBronco]

P.S. The refs gave the Pats the V in Foxboro today. I think the student beats the teacher next week...Ray Lewis is right....

[SmilinAssasSin27]

That Fat A-hole on the NFLN is still bashing McD for trading Cutler, saying that he is better than Orton. Dude fails to realize that Orton still tosses INTs and Orton AND Ayers AND Alphonso Smith may just be better than Cutty...which is actually what came out of the meat of that trade.

[Tned]

I wanted to puke when i saw the amount of time our D was out there. Dallas has the ability to break a long one out at any time. Our offense needs to control that clokc and convert some first downs. For our d to walk out of there with only giving up 10 points is incredible.

Penalties almost killed us today.

The offense knows it, too. I hear Orton being interviewed on Sirius radio either Thursday or Friday and he talked about how McDaniels preaches complimentary football. The offense winning TOP, so that the defense isn't on the field too much (worked in the second half, but failed in the first half). Kickoffs and punts need to keep the opponent deep in their own territory, so the defense isn't having to defend a short field, and the offense needs to avoid turnovers that lead to a short field for the defense to defend.

Obviously, for much of the game, the offense didn't do their part, but the defense came through anyway.

[drewloc]

The offense knows it, too. I hear Orton being interviewed on Sirius radio either Thursday or Friday and he talked about how McDaniels preaches complimentary football. The offense winning TOP, so that the defense isn't on the field too much (worked in the second half, but failed in the first half). Kickoffs and punts need to keep the opponent deep in their own territory, so the defense isn't having to defend a short field, and the offense needs to avoid turnovers that lead to a short field for the defense to defend.

Obviously, for much of the game, the offense didn't do their part, but the defense came through anyway.

This defense never ceases to amaze me. One of the things that was brought up in the offseason was Nolan's tendency to draft from the back forward. He likes his secondary guys, and after a couple replays of Dallas having no one to throw to, it's easy to understand why. Not to mention that we have a terror in Doom, Ayers showed flashes tonight, Dawkins is a rabid animal, and DJ put a lickin on Williams. I'm stoked to watch the D now, this turn around is amazing. :beer:

[NightTrainLayne]

This defense never ceases to amaze me. One of the things that was brought up in the offseason was Nolan's tendency to draft from the back forward. He likes his secondary guys, and after a couple replays of Dallas having no one to throw to, it's easy to understand why. Not to mention that we have a terror in Doom, Ayers showed flashes tonight, Dawkins is a rabid animal, and DJ put a lickin on Williams. I'm stoked to watch the D now, this turn around is amazing. :beer:

Yes. In the off-season this was criticized as though Nolan ignored the front seven.

However, Nolan made his point several times that he likes building from the back to the front because if someone makes a mistake in the defensive back-field it's a touchdown. But if someone makes a mistake upfront and you have a good backfield you can recover.

I'm more than happy with what he's done.

[Simple Jaded]

That Fat A-hole on the NFLN is still bashing McD for trading Cutler, saying that he is better than Orton. Dude fails to realize that Orton still tosses INTs and Orton AND Ayers AND Alphonso Smith may just be better than Cutty...which is actually what came out of the meat of that trade.

That Fat A-hole is absolutely right, with Jay Cutler this is hands down the best team in the league and an overnight SuperBowl contender, and all that negative press that that fans have been complaining about is never an issue.

If McDaniels doesn't **** up the QB situation the hype surrounding this team would be enough to gag a maggot, and praise from the press is plentifull.......

[MOtorboat]

That Fat A-hole is absolutely right, with Jay Cutler this is hands down the best team in the league and an overnight SuperBowl contender, and all that negative press that that fans have been complaining about is never an issue.

If McDaniels doesn't **** up the QB situation the hype surrounding this team would be enough to gag a maggot, and praise from the press is plentifull.......

I might remind you that Jay Cutler is a choker. He choked three years in a row. He masterminded the worst collapse in divisional history last year.

[Slick]

That Fat A-hole is absolutely right, with Jay Cutler this is hands down the best team in the league and an overnight SuperBowl contender, and all that negative press that that fans have been complaining about is never an issue.

If McDaniels doesn't **** up the QB situation the hype surrounding this team would be enough to gag a maggot, and praise from the press is plentifull.......

Jay would have found a way to throw a few picks against the Bengals and Cowboys and we could just as well be 2-2. Dukes is crying about something that doesn't matter anymore. We can't go back in time.

[Simple Jaded]

I might remind you that Jay Cutler is a choker. He choked three years in a row. He masterminded the worst collapse in divisional history last year.

According to the announcers in the Chi/GB game, Cutler has 9 come-from-behind 4th quarter wins in 41 games? That's 25% of his games and 41% of his wins.......


Jay would have found a way to throw a few picks against the Bengals and Cowboys and we could just as well be 2-2. Dukes is crying about something that doesn't matter anymore. We can't go back in time.

Perhaps, that is of course, if those Int's don't go through the defenders hands like they have for Kyle Orton.......

[MOtorboat]

According to the announcers in the Chi/GB game, Cutler has 9 come-from-behind 4th quarter wins in 41 games? That's 25% of his games and 41% of his wins.......

So how many playoff games has he played in?

[frauschieze]

Okay, let's get this back on track guys.

:focus:

[frauschieze]

I am not ******* kidding guys.

:focus:

[drewloc]

According to the announcers in the Chi/GB game, Cutler has 9 come-from-behind 4th quarter wins in 41 games? That's 25% of his games and 41% of his wins.......



Perhaps, that is of course, if those Int's don't go through the defenders hands like they have for Kyle Orton.......

Cutler could be just as much to blame for having to play from behind too. Out of those games he came from behind in, did he throw interceptions or do anything to put them in that position in the first place?

[Slick]

Don't get me wrong Link. I miss that arm too, but I don't miss carelessness with the football.

I'm sure deep down jay probably has second thoughts about leaving Denver the way he did.

Seeing Cassel without McDaniels or the Patriot weapons tells me that jay made a mistake. Josh could have made him a better QB, and it would have been nice to see Cutler with a Mike Nolan defense. The bottom line is he didn't want to be here for whatever reason and being upset about it 4 weeks into this season seems like a waste of time and energy.

[Simple Jaded]

Don't get me wrong Link. I miss that arm too, but I don't miss carelessness with the football.

I'm sure deep down jay probably has second thoughts about leaving Denver the way he did.

Seeing Cassel without McDaniels or the Patriot weapons tells me that jay made a mistake. Josh could have made him a better QB, and it would have been nice to see Cutler with a Mike Nolan defense. The bottom line is he didn't want to be here for whatever reason and being upset about it 4 weeks into this season seems like a waste of time and energy.

You're kind of contradicting yourself, Slick, you say that Cutler would have found a way to F' it up but than say that Cutler would have been a better QB under McDaniels.

McDaniels has Kyle Orton playing mistake free, who's to say he can't get Cutler to play mistake free, after all, Cutler is playing mistake free.......

[MOtorboat]

You're kind of contradicting yourself, Slick, you say that Cutler would have found a way to F' it up but than say that Cutler would have been a better QB under McDaniels.

McDaniels has Kyle Orton playing mistake free, who's to say he can't get Cutler to play mistake free, after all, Cutler is playing mistake free.......

Nice hypothetical. We all know you're wrong, but nice hypothetical.

[Simple Jaded]

Cutler could be just as much to blame for having to play from behind too. Out of those games he came from behind in, did he throw interceptions or do anything to put them in that position in the first place?

The point MB was trying to make but failed was that Cutler chokes, I provided proof to the contrary.......if you think there is something out there that contradicts what I'm saying, perhaps you should provide it instead of providing speculation.......

[MOtorboat]

The point MB was trying to make but failed was that Cutler chokes, I provided proof to the contrary.......if you think there is something out there that contradicts what I'm saying, perhaps you should provide it instead of providing speculation.......

Worst divisional collapse in the history of the NFL.

Once again, you fail. But nice try.

[Simple Jaded]

Nice hypothetical. We all know you're wrong, but nice hypothetical.

He's playing mistake free in Chicago even without the tutoring of Josh McDaniels.......

[honz]

Our offense put up some stinkers last year too...against worse teams.

@KC 19-33
JAX 17-24
Miami 17-26
OAK 10-31
@Carolina 10-30

[drewloc]

The point MB was trying to make but failed was that Cutler chokes, I provided proof to the contrary.......if you think there is something out there that contradicts what I'm saying, perhaps you should provide it instead of providing speculation.......

I will do some research on the subject, but you were speculating too when you said that McDaniels could have fixed Jay's issues just because he works with Orton. No one knows that for sure, and no one ever will.

[Simple Jaded]

Worst divisional collapse in the history of the NFL.

Once again, you fail. But nice try.

Do you ever get sick of being wrong?.......

[Simple Jaded]

I will do some research on the subject, but you were speculating too when you said that McDaniels could have fixed Jay's issues just because he works with Orton. No one knows that for sure, and no one ever will.

Call it speculation if you like, but Lovie Smith/Ron Turner have him playing mistake free in Chicago, it's not a stretch to say that a guru like McDaniels could as well, if not even better.......

[Slick]

You're kind of contradicting yourself, Slick, you say that Cutler would have found a way to F' it up but than say that Cutler would have been a better QB under McDaniels.

McDaniels has Kyle Orton playing mistake free, who's to say he can't get Cutler to play mistake free, after all, Cutler is playing mistake free.......

I do that sometimes Link.

:bandit:

I guess what I was trying to say is, yes I think Cutler would benefit from josh McDaniels, but in the same post I also realize Jay didn't want to be here. So to keep bringing up what could have been isn't really getting us anywhere.

I do think this is on topic because Northman left 'changing a thing' open to interpretation.

We can speculate for 10 more years about whether Jay was hurt hearing about trade talks on ESPN instead of hearing it from his coach, or if McDaniels said something to Jay that rubbed him the wrong way at another time. Who knows?

I'm going to side with Northman on this one. I like the direction this team is headed. I wouldn't change a thing either, even the Alphonzo Smith trade.

I think Josh knows what he has in Orton, and I don't think he'll be around for a long time. I'm sure he cringes at some of Orton's throws like we all do. If Kyle can Trent Dilfer us to the playoffs and perhaps beyond, I'll take it.

[underrated29]

That Fat A-hole is absolutely right, with Jay Cutler this is hands down the best team in the league and an overnight SuperBowl contender, and all that negative press that that fans have been complaining about is never an issue.

If McDaniels doesn't **** up the QB situation the hype surrounding this team would be enough to gag a maggot, and praise from the press is plentifull.......


I might remind you that Jay Cutler is a choker. He choked three years in a row. He masterminded the worst collapse in divisional history last year.



Lordy-

I Miss Jay, but the result of losing jay is we got knowshon and a GREAT defense. I am not thrilled with Orton, but, Orton and Knowshon and a defense is better than Jay and no defense.


MB- dont put the collapse on Jay. You know better. If our Defense played like this with Jay we would have only lost.....ZERO??? games last year...

What was the stat- if the Defense held the opposing team to under 20 jay only lost like two games....Well so far the most points against us is 10.

Had Jay had this defense you would be singing a totally different tune.....



But- on topic. Great win. I still have my reservations about the offense. The cowboys defense looked pretty good tonight even though they have struggled. However, we still arent driving for periods of time.

I would like to see us run some sweeps or counter plays. Get our RB to the edge and turn the corner. all these inside runs and none to our power bak hillis?--not impressed.

I think ORton will turn it on the next game. Just like cassell last year. He needed 4-5 games to get it going. I think Orton can do that. He overthrew some people, and threw low.

We just have to keep him free of pressure. Our LG and C were getting owned. Big fix there. Otherwise we look REALLY REALLY STRONG

less than 7pts a game against us on D!



F-YEAH!

[Simple Jaded]

I do that sometimes Link.

:bandit:

I guess what I was trying to say is, yes I think Cutler would benefit from josh McDaniels, but in the same post I also realize Jay didn't want to be here. So to keep bringing up what could have been isn't really getting us anywhere.

I do think this is on topic because Northman left 'changing a thing' open to interpretation.

We can speculate for 10 more years about whether Jay was hurt hearing about trade talks on ESPN instead of hearing it from his coach, or if McDaniels said something to Jay that rubbed him the wrong way at another time. Who knows?

I'm going to side with Northman on this one. I like the direction this team is headed. I wouldn't change a thing either, even the Alphonzo Smith trade.

I think Josh knows what he has in Orton, and I don't think he'll be around for a long time. I'm sure he cringes at some of Orton's throws like we all do. If Kyle can Trent Dilfer us to the playoffs and perhaps beyond, I'll take it.

I agree what McDaniels knows what he has in Orton, but I disagree that Orton won't be around long, Kyle Orton is here to stay.......ya.......

[drewloc]

Call it speculation if you like, but Lovie Smith/Ron Turner have him playing mistake free in Chicago, it's not a stretch to say that a guru like McDaniels could as well, if not even better.......

He has played well in their games save for one, I won't deny that, but he hasn't been mistake free in all of them. 5 INT's, and one fumble lost isn't mistake free to me. I digress though :focus:, I like the direction we are going, and hopefully we can get some more consistency on the offensive side of the ball.

[MOtorboat]

He has played well in their games save for one, I won't deny that, but he hasn't been mistake free in all of them. 5 INT's, and one fumble lost isn't mistake free to me. I digress though :focus:, I like the direction we are going, and hopefully we can get some more consistency on the offensive side of the ball.

Five interceptions?

That's just ignorant.

Now punish me for someone else's stupidity...that's how this works, lol...

[MOtorboat]

Lordy-

I Miss Jay, but the result of losing jay is we got knowshon and a GREAT defense. I am not thrilled with Orton, but, Orton and Knowshon and a defense is better than Jay and no defense.


MB- dont put the collapse on Jay. You know better. If our Defense played like this with Jay we would have only lost.....ZERO??? games last year...

What was the stat- if the Defense held the opposing team to under 20 jay only lost like two games....Well so far the most points against us is 10.

Had Jay had this defense you would be singing a totally different tune.....



But- on topic. Great win. I still have my reservations about the offense. The cowboys defense looked pretty good tonight even though they have struggled. However, we still arent driving for periods of time.

I would like to see us run some sweeps or counter plays. Get our RB to the edge and turn the corner. all these inside runs and none to our power bak hillis?--not impressed.

I think ORton will turn it on the next game. Just like cassell last year. He needed 4-5 games to get it going. I think Orton can do that. He overthrew some people, and threw low.

We just have to keep him free of pressure. Our LG and C were getting owned. Big fix there. Otherwise we look REALLY REALLY STRONG

less than 7pts a game against us on D!



F-YEAH!

Jay Cutler is responsible for the losses. That's what happens when you are a quarterback in the NFL. Sucks to be him. He's a douche. And so is anyone that defends him.

[Shazam!]

Cutler had 1 TD and 4 INTs in 3 must win games.

Please.

Denver is 4-0 without Cutler, a great defense, and on plays when Orton was running for his life he didn't throw the INT. He may have come close at times but he didn't.

People still whining about Cutler are still looking to justify their offseason rants about McDaniels.

You were wrong. Move on.

Take it like a man and enjoy these Broncos, who are good and easily better and more balanced than the 2007-8 versions so far.

[drewloc]

Five interceptions?

That's just ignorant.

Now punish me for someone else's stupidity...that's how this works, lol...

What's ignorant? He has 5 INT's this year in the regular season with the Bears, or am I missing something?

[Simple Jaded]

He has played well in their games save for one, I won't deny that, but he hasn't been mistake free in all of them. 5 INT's, and one fumble lost isn't mistake free to me. I digress though :focus:, I like the direction we are going, and hopefully we can get some more consistency on the offensive side of the ball.

Not throwing int's doesn't mean Orton has been mistake free either.......

[Mike]

Who the heck cares? Cutler is gone, ain't comin back. Denver is 4-0. Be happy people. :tsk:

[Slick]

I agree what McDaniels knows what he has in Orton, but I disagree that Orton won't be around long, Kyle Orton is here to stay.......ya.......

Cheer up my friend. It's a good day to be a Bronco fan. The situation in Boulder is much worse however. Let's be miserable about that together.

[MOtorboat]

Who the heck cares? Cutler is gone, ain't comin back. Denver is 4-0. Be happy people. :tsk:

LOL at link being happy...lol...

[Shazam!]

Link, just let it go.

You should be happy, as everyone else in Broncos nation.

McDaniels has exceeded all expectations so far.

Would you rather Denver be 0-4 and Chicago 4-0 to justify your criticism?

Be happy.

[topscribe]

Perhaps, that is of course, if those Int's don't go through the defenders hands like they have for Kyle Orton.......

I always backed Cutler as a QB. However, I have seen several times where his
passes went through the hands of defenders.

Nonetheless, if you're alluding to Orton's TD pass to Moreno today, I guess you
missed that the defender was a defensive end? Do you think it may be possible
that Orton saw a DE out there and so passed it? And when Orton did pass it,
he did so with VELOCITY.

I have seen many close passes like that thrown by other QBs. In fact, the TD
pass Elway threw at the tail end of the historical "The Drive" was inches away
from being an interception. So because it was very close does not mean it
was a bad pass. It just might have been an extremely excellent pass into a
very tight window.

Orton has thrown them before. Many times . . .

-----

[Simple Jaded]

Cutler had 1 TD and 4 INTs in 3 must win games.

Please.

Denver is 4-0 without Cutler, a great defense, and on plays when Orton was running for his life he didn't throw the INT. He may have come close at times but he didn't.

People still whining about Cutler are still looking to justify their offseason rants about McDaniels.

You were wrong. Move on.

Take it like a man and enjoy these Broncos, who are good and easily better and more balanced than the 2007-8 versions so far.

The defense gave up 112 points in those three games, it's convenient how ya'll omit that bit of info in the same post where you pimp the newly found "balanced" team.......

[drewloc]

Not throwing int's doesn't mean Orton has been mistake free either.......

True he has some stuff he can improve on, I'm happy being 4-0 though. This defense has given me hope again, I'm glad to be a fan! :salute:

[Denver Native (Carol)]

He's playing mistake free in Chicago even without the tutoring of Josh McDaniels.......

Who care - this is about the Broncos - 4 - 0

[Lonestar]

Yes. In the off-season this was criticized as though Nolan ignored the front seven.

However, Nolan made his point several times that he likes building from the back to the front because if someone makes a mistake in the defensive back-field it's a touchdown. But if someone makes a mistake upfront and you have a good backfield you can recover.

I'm more than happy with what he's done.


well when he started to do this I was thinking we have seen this crap before..

but he has won me over as knowing WTH he is doing..

I did not think we could win this game on D, and as the game wore on I was waiting for us to blow it.. I knew we were going to screw the pooch.. they could not hold back this offense.. They had been averaging 220 yards plus on the ground this year, had one of the biggest OLINE in the league...

I knew in my heart we could not hold on for 60 minutes that sooner or later someone would break a 45+ yarder..

I know that in the past we would have folded like a $15 tent in a hurricane....:laugh:

I liked what I heard about teamwork, having versatile players.. Damn I had NO idea this team could turn around like this in just a few games...:salute:

[Shazam!]

The defense gave up 112 points in those three games, it's convenient how ya'll omit that bit of info in the same post where you pimp the newly found "balanced" team.......

Yes, it is balanced. The team has a new Offensive philosophy.

You act as if the offense was some unstoppable juggernaut. It was not.

[Lonestar]

The defense gave up 112 points in those three games, it's convenient how ya'll omit that bit of info in the same post where you pimp the newly found "balanced" team.......


yes the D sucked last year but some of it was because jay put them into bad spots..

and jay put them there because the d sucked ..

catch 22

jay is gone and there is little doubt in my mind he will indeed cost them a couple of games this year.

and his improvement this year the last few games is probably more because of the play caller calling less passes than in the past.. if the running games goes south his picks will most likely go back to last years levels..


I wish he would have had the sense to stick around.. he would have been a better QB here than there.. But he chose to leave.. so I hope he wins enough games to get us a top 15 pick this year..:salute:

[Simple Jaded]

I always backed Cutler as a QB. However, I have seen several times where his
passes went through the hands of defenders.

Nonetheless, if you're alluding to Orton's TD pass to Moreno today, I guess you
missed that the defender was a defensive end? Do you think it may be possible
that Orton saw a DE out there and so passed it? And when Orton did pass it,
he did so with VELOCITY.

I have seen many close passes like that thrown by other QBs. In fact, the TD
pass Elway threw at the tail end of the historical "The Drive" was inches away
from being an interception. So because it was very close does not mean it
was a bad pass. It just might have been an extremely excellent pass into a
very tight window.

Orton has thrown them before. Many times . . .

-----

Marshall took the second TD pass off the CB's hand, something he rarely did on any of those Int's that Cutler had when forcing the ball into him, Orton had another go through Eric Wrights hands in the Cleveland game, the miracle ending in Cinnci never happens if the CB gets his pinky toe in-bounds the play before that (there was another in this game, I just can't remember offhand), Micheal Huff had another go through his hands in the endzone during the Raider game.......Now one of these wouldn't have counted because of a defensive penalty and I have no problem getting lucky, it's part of the game and it happens with all QB's, but that's exactly what it's been.

And Spencer is an OLB in Dallas' system, regardless, that ball should have never been thrown, but then again, it's a good thing it was, otherwise Denver loses.

Btw, VELOCITY, Top? It traveled 10-15 yards in the air, that's ordinary at best.......

[Shazam!]

**** Jay Cutler damn him. He didn't want to be part of my beloved team anymore, so **** him. The Broncos have moved on successfully and had a great start. I can't believe some people here are just such sore ******* losers that even when the Broncos win big they still can't be happy because of it, only because of how wrong they were when trashing the new Coach.

It's possible if Jay was still here when drives were stalling he'd press and throw his signature INTERCEPTIONS.

Enough about Jay. **** him. We have new leadership and a fantastic new Coach.

Shut up already.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

DAMN - the Broncos are 4 - 0, and all someone can post about is a QB who plays for another team - a QB who, if playing for the Broncos, could be no better than we are NOW - 4 - 0 :tsk: TOTALLY UNBELIEVABLE.

[Simple Jaded]

Yes, it is balanced. The team has a new Offensive philosophy.

You act as if the offense was some unstoppable juggernaut. It was not.

The offense had as good of talent as there is in the league, would have been even better + the RB's they have now, I'm not acting as if anything. The QB is clearly the weak link, and that's sad.......

[Shazam!]

The QB was good today and helped Denver WIN.

Link. Please. Stop it.

[Simple Jaded]

**** Jay Cutler damn him. He didn't want to be part of my beloved team anymore, so **** him. The Broncos have moved on successfully and had a great start. I can't believe some people here are just such sore ******* losers that even when the Broncos win big they still can't be happy because of it, only because of how wrong they were when trashing the new Coach.

It's possible if Jay was still here when drives were stalling he'd press and throw his signature INTERCEPTIONS.

Enough about Jay. **** him. We have new leadership and a fantastic new Coach.

Shut up already.

It's possible that you're exaggerating Cutler's not wanting to be here and his "signature INTERCEPTIONS".

Btw, I never said a ****ing thing about not being happy, nor am I wrong about McDaniels either, his incompetence cost this team dearly.......

[CraigHwk]

Cutler Who? Shanahan Who? Stop frigging bringing those scrubs up. We have a TEAM now. Anyone who is still looking to the past is a fool.

McD is the man. The Broncos are rockin and our D is shining like we haven't seen in years. Even though I still wish or O could pick it up, I think we're on track for a surprising season. Superbowl team we are not. However we're far and beyond what most people were saying we'd be.

[Simple Jaded]

The QB was good today and helped Denver WIN.
Link. Please. Stop it.

When did I say he didn't?.......

[Shazam!]

nor am I wrong about McDaniels either, his incompetence cost this team dearly.......

His 'incompetence' rebuilt the pathetic Defense and his incompetence led this team to 4-0.

[pnbronco]

AND, they managed that while being on the field for 20 minutes in the first half. For them to spend that much time on the field, and still be able to buckle down and shut them out the last three quarters is amazing.

I was thinking the same thing that all that running in camp was so paying off. Tuten has got to feel thrilled. It looked like Dallas was having a tough time from mid way in the 3rd through the 4th.

The character and guts of this team is really showing....:salute:

[Slick]

You musta pissed the midget off Link.

[Simple Jaded]

Cutler Who? Shanahan Who? Stop frigging bringing those scrubs up. We have a TEAM now. Anyone who is still looking to the past is a fool.

McD is the man. The Broncos are rockin and our D is shining like we haven't seen in years. Even though I still wish or O could pick it up, I think we're on track for a surprising season. Superbowl team we are not. However we're far and beyond what most people were saying we'd be.

With Cutler they are, that's the point in bringing him up.......

[Simple Jaded]

You musta pissed the midget off Link.

I have a way with people, that much is obvious.......

[topscribe]

Marshall took the second TD pass off the CB's hand, something he rarely did on any of those Int's that Cutler had when forcing the ball into him, Orton had another go through Eric Wrights hands in the Cleveland game, the miracle ending in Cinnci never happens if the CB gets his pinky toe in-bounds the play before that (there was another in this game, I just can't remember offhand), Micheal Huff had another go through his hands in the endzone during the Raider game.......Now one of these wouldn't have counted because of a defensive penalty and I have no problem getting lucky, it's part of the game and it happens with all QB's, but that's exactly what it's been.

And Spencer is an OLB in Dallas' system, regardless, that ball should have never been thrown, but then again, it's a good thing it was, otherwise Denver loses.

Btw, VELOCITY, Top? It traveled 10-15 yards in the air, that's ordinary at best.......

The pass went 18.43 yards in the air. Nonetheless, what does distance have
to do with velocity? It was either thrown hard, or it wasn't.

It was thrown hard.

And it was a TD, so it indeed should have been thrown.

Regarding Marshall's catch, Orton said several weeks ago that he would be
throwing just those types of passes to Marshall because, he said, Marshall
will come down with it more often than the defender.

You really need to pay attention, Link . . . :nod:

P.S. For a big Cutler fan, you surely are talking a lot about how another QB's
passes are going through defenders' hands, aren't you? :coffee:

-----

[Simple Jaded]

His 'incompetence' rebuilt the pathetic Defense and his incompetence led this team to 4-0.



There are 5 new starters on defense and 6 holdovers from Shanahans regime, clearly the difference has been Nolan, kudo's to McDaniels for bringing Nolan in, all he needed to do was fix the defense, it's fixed.......now he's got to turn water into wine with regards to the QB if he's ever going to compensate for screwing up a perfect QB situation.

[frauschieze]

As a reminder, here's the first post of the thread:


The Bronco tenacity is back! Orton may not have looked awesome but its never been about 1 player. This is a real TEAM! Love it! 4-0 baby!

:focus:

[frauschieze]

Looks as if the word "Orton" is in that post, doesn't it?

-----

Indeed. But there are other things being discussed actively that are not. If it doesn't apply to you, Top, because you are posting about the thread topic, you can disregard.

[Slick]

I wouldnt change a thing...

This is is open to interpretation.

[Simple Jaded]

The pass went 18.43 yards in the air. Nonetheless, what does distance have
to do with velocity? It was either thrown hard, or it wasn't.

It was thrown hard.

And it was a TD, so it indeed should have been thrown.

Regarding Marshall's catch, Orton said several weeks ago that he would be
throwing just those types of passes to Marshall because, he said, Marshall
will come down with it more often than the defender.

You really need to pay attention, Link . . . :nod:

-----

I try to pay as much attention to Orton as I can before he puts me to sleep.

My point about velocity is that every NFL QB should have velocity up to 10 yards, this proves he's ordinary best, it's certainly not the measure of a QB's arm strength.......

[topscribe]

I try to pay as much attention to Orton as I can before he puts me to sleep.

My point about velocity is that every NFL QB should have velocity up to 10 yards, this proves he's ordinary best, it's certainly not the measure of a QB's arm strength.......

Did you miss the part about 18.43 yards?

I'm not debating arm strength. I'm just reporting what I saw in the game and in
the highlight afterward, which I viewed probably 18-20 times.

-----

[Simple Jaded]

P.S. For a big Cutler fan, you surely are talking a lot about how another QB's
passes are going through defenders' hands, aren't you? :coffee:

-----

So you're saying Cutler's had a few of his own? This supports my original point where I said that maybe Slicks hypothetical Int's would instead go through the defenders hands, people might want to check that out.......

[topscribe]

So you're saying Cutler's had a few of his own? This supports my original point where I said that maybe Slicks hypothetical Int's would instead go through the defenders hands, people might want to check that out.......

I'm not into speculation, either. I'm into what actually happened.

Many of Cutler's passes that went through defenders' hands were because of
velocity. It gets there so fast the defender does not have time to adequately
extend his arms and open his hands.

This is what happened with Orton's pass to Moreno. The velocity foiled the
interception. See, that is something you apparently have not observed in Orton.
He can pass with tremendous velocity. I saw it last year. I saw it in the pass
that Gaffney dropped in the end zone a few weeks ago--if you remember that--
and I saw it today in the pass to Moreno.

-----

[Simple Jaded]

Did you miss the part about 18.43 yards?

I'm not debating arm strength. I'm just reporting what I saw in the game and in
the highlight afterward, which I viewed probably 18-20 times.

-----

No I didn't miss it, I'm just not swayed by it, a speed/quick out is just not a measure of velocity unless we're talking about PeeWee football.......

[Simple Jaded]

I'm not into speculation, either. I'm into what actually happened.

Many of Cutler's passes that went through defenders' hands were because of
velocity. It gets there so fast the defender does not have time to adequately
extend his arms and open his hands.

This is what happened with Orton's pass to Moreno. The velocity foiled the
interception. See, that is something you apparently have not observed in Orton.
He can pass with tremendous velocity. I saw it last year. I saw it in the pass
that Gaffney dropped in the end zone a few weeks ago--if you remember that--
and I saw it today in the pass to Moreno.

-----

He can pass with velocity in the short passing game, I've observed that much.......

[topscribe]

No I didn't miss it, I'm just not swayed by it, a speed/quick out is just not a measure of velocity unless we're talking about PeeWee football.......

Okay, so you can throw it hard only in PeeWee football.

Gotcha. :coffee:

-----

[Simple Jaded]

Okay, so you can throw it hard only in PeeWee football.

Gotcha. :coffee:

-----

Me? I can barely get my arm above shoulder level anymore.......

[Northman]

I agree what McDaniels knows what he has in Orton, but I disagree that Orton won't be around long, Kyle Orton is here to stay.......ya.......

If we keep on winning i dont care.

[Simple Jaded]

If we keep on winning i dont care.

Where did I say I would care? Not to get defensive, but people love to put words in my mouth. The thought of watching Kyle Orton play football for the next decade is underwelming, but I get by. I'm just never going to be a fan of Kyle Orton, but there have been a lot of players I didn't like.......

[Northman]

Where did I say I would care? Not to get defensive, but people love to put words in my mouth. The thought of watching Kyle Orton play football for the next decade is underwelming, but I get by. I'm just never going to be a fan of Kyle Orton, but there have been a lot of players I didn't like.......


Im not putting any words in your mouth Link. You keep making comments that McDaniels has set this franchise back by trading Cutler. I will grab the post if you like to show you. If Denver keeps winning and contending for Championships i dont care who is behind center. Right now, i see both the Bears and Denver getting what they wanted from the trade and it seems to be working for both teams. However, when you constantly come on this forum and start saying that Orton's passes arent pretty enough for you and drag Cutler into every discussion when the team is leading the division and playing well i find it very difficult to believe that your happy with the current state of the Broncos.

Either your happy to be 4-0 or your not. Im waiting to see when you actually post in a thread and say "**** yea!, we are 4-0!". Instead, you come into my thread and hijack bickering over Cutler not being here anymore and worrying more about ball velocity than wins. Do i think Jay could succeed here? Yea. But the guy wanted out and Denver needed to get something in return and thus far it has paid off with a 4-0 start. At the end of the day its all about winning, not franchise Qb's. As great as Peyton Manning is he has the same amount of Super Bowls that Trent Dilfer does. The rest is just stat filler. If your happy about the wins Denver has why not show us once in a while instead of always complaining about what we dont have?

[Simple Jaded]

Im not putting any words in your mouth Link. You keep making comments that McDaniels has set this franchise back by trading Cutler. I will grab the post if you like to show you. If Denver keeps winning and contending for Championships i dont care who is behind center. Right now, i see both the Bears and Denver getting what they wanted from the trade and it seems to be working for both teams. However, when you constantly come on this forum and start saying that Orton's passes arent pretty enough for you and drag Cutler into every discussion when the team is leading the division and playing well i find it very difficult to believe that your happy with the current state of the Broncos.

Either your happy to be 4-0 or your not. Im waiting to see when you actually post in a thread and say "**** yea!, we are 4-0!". Instead, you come into my thread and hijack bickering over Cutler not being here anymore and worrying more about ball velocity than wins. Do i think Jay could succeed here? Yea. But the guy wanted out and Denver needed to get something in return and thus far it has paid off with a 4-0 start. At the end of the day its all about winning, not franchise Qb's. As great as Peyton Manning is he has the same amount of Super Bowls that Trent Dilfer does. The rest is just stat filler. If your happy about the wins Denver has why not show us once in a while instead of always complaining about what we dont have?

Post it in your sig, it's the truth.

As far as hijacking your thread, I didn't bring Cutler up, nor am I complaining, I'm pointing out the obvious.

As far as posting "**** yea!, we are 4-0!", not gonna happen, but that doesn't mean I haven't enjoyed it every bit as much as ya'll have, I couldn't care less if you find that hard to believe.......my enjoyment does not require your involvement anymore more than your enjoyment requires mine.......

[GEM]

Post it in your sig, it's the truth.

As far as hijacking your thread, I didn't bring Cutler up, nor am I complaining, I'm pointing out the obvious.

As far as posting "**** yea!, we are 4-0!", not gonna happen, but that doesn't mean I haven't enjoyed it every bit as much as ya'll have, I couldn't care less if you find that hard to believe.......my enjoyment does not require your involvement anymore more than your enjoyment requires mine.......

Just a question....what exactly would the Broncos have to do to please you this season?

[Simple Jaded]

Just a question....what exactly would the Broncos have to do to please you this season?

Honestly? SuperBowl contention.......period. With Jay Cutler this would be the best team going and a real SuperBowl contender, imo, and because of that I refuse to lower my expectations for any reason.

With all the posturing and excuse making from McDaniels backers before the season began, I was one of the few that said that "Real fans" have every reason to hold the team to higher expectations whether us trolls believed it or not.......Did I believe they'd be this good? **** No! But Broncos fans had every reason to expect 10+ wins and the playoffs even before we realized that the defense is as good as it is.......which might just be the very best defense in the league.

SuperBowl contention or fail for Josh McDaniels and the Denver Broncos, the defense is that good, no excuses necessary.

Does this mean I believe it'll happen? Not really, what I expect and what I predict are two different things, but go figure, this negative troll expected more from this team than the "Real fans".......

[Shazam!]

Oh my God.

[Day1BroncoFan]

If it's about winning which it is then who cares what the QB's name is?

Cutler smutler, out the door and didn't say good bye so good riddance.

4-0 is sweet no matter who the QB is.

See ya in the super bowl this year cutler smutler... hope ya lose.

I wouldn't change a thing.

[Simple Jaded]

Oh my God.

You disagree? The Broncos were an 8-8 team with an already potent offense, all McDaniels needed to do was fix the defense, it's fixed, this defense is for real.

With a defense like this, why shouldn't I expect a SuperBowl run from an offensive genius like Josh McDaniels?.......

[Shazam!]

Some people just can't stand the fact they were flat out dead wrong about McDaniels, the Broncos have a legit shot at going 5-0 without Cutler, the defense is the best we've seen in years (1996 I think) and Denver is one of the hottest teams in the NFL right now, along with the Saints and Giants. I think people like this would've rather Denver been 0-4 to justify their claims. Support your team. Period.

[Shazam!]

You disagree? The Broncos were an 8-8 team with an already potent offense, all McDaniels needed to do was fix the defense, it's fixed, this defense is for real.

With a defense like this, why shouldn't I expect a SuperBowl run from an offensive genius like Josh McDaniels?.......

The Broncos offense in 2008 was no juggernaut, please stop treating it like they were the 1994 SF 49ers. Mediocre in scoring. Drives stalled. Throwing into double and triple coverage... often. Cutler made a TON of ill advised plays that the defense couldn't be blamed because they were on the sidelines. He stunk in the last three games when Denver needed a spark and did nothing when he was on the field, despite whatever the putrid defense did, he made no contribution to put this team in position to win.

Maybe McDaniels, who forgotten more about QBs than we will ever know, didnt want Jay running his offense. Maybe he didnt like Jay's style. Maybe he didnt like Jay seeming to be a selfish player. Maybe he wanted his own guy.

Jay Cutler is not John Elway, the only Broncos player who wasn't expendable, who also personally fired and hired coaches.

Please stop it now. If youre a Broncos fan worth anything, be happy they're in the position they are. McDaniels has done a fantastic job here and is on to something. The players have bought in. There is something special about these Denver Broncos and they're one of the hottest teams in the NFL, and the defense is playing in a way we haven't seen in years. Enjoy it... if you're a fan.

[Simple Jaded]

Some people just can't stand the fact they were flat out dead wrong about McDaniels, the Broncos have a legit shot at going 5-0 without Cutler, the defense is the best we've seen in years (1996 I think) and Denver is one of the hottest teams in the NFL right now, along with the Saints and Giants. I think people like this would've rather Denver been 0-4 to justify their claims. Support your team. Period.

I just said the Broncos are better than I thought they'd be and that I expect big things, where did you get that I'd rather see them 0-4?

If McDaniels doesn't **** up a perfect QB situation, this team is the best team in the league, not just "hot" now, but a real contender for a SuperBowl. You have every reason to expect as much.......

[Shazam!]

where did you get that I'd rather see them 0-4?

Because you have done nothing but whine in this thread and turn it into a Cutler love fest. It's sickening, and not only to me.

[Simple Jaded]

The Broncos offense in 2008 was no juggernaut, please stop treating it like they were the 1994 SF 49ers. Mediocre in scoring. Drives stalled. Throwing into double and triple coverage... often. Cutler made a TON of ill advised plays that the defense couldn't be blamed because they were on the sidelines. He stunk in the last three games when Denver needed a spark and did nothing when he was on the field, despite whatever the putrid defense did, he made no contribution to put this team in position to win.

Maybe McDaniels, who forgotten more about QBs than we will ever know, didnt want Jay running his offense. Maybe he didnt like Jay's style. Maybe he didnt like Jay seeming to be a selfish player. Maybe he wanted his own guy.

Jay Cutler is not John Elway, the only Broncos player who wasn't expendable, who also personally fired and hired coaches.

Please stop it now. If youre a Broncos fan worth anything, be happy they're in the position they are. McDaniels has done a fantastic job here and is on to something. The players have bought in. There is something special about these Denver Broncos and they're one of the hottest teams in the NFL, and the defense is playing in a way we haven't seen in years. Enjoy it... if you're a fan.

Wait? I thought it was Jay Cutler that didn't want to be a part of this team?

Listen, you don't need to worry about whether or not I'm a fan, I'm not the issue, the issue is what this team would be with Jay Cutler, and if you don't think McDaniels could take last years talented offense to the next level, what does that say about your fanhood?

I have no intention of stopping anything.......

[Simple Jaded]

Because you have done nothing but whine in this thread and turn it into a Cutler love fest. It's sickening, and not only to me.

That doesn't mean I'd rather see them 0-4, you're just overreacting to my whining.......

[Northman]

what I expect and what I predict are two different things, but go figure, this negative troll expected more from this team than the "Real fans".......


Well, you've pretty much already predicted failure and was wrong on that. But at least you got the troll part correct. :lol:

[Tned]

well when he started to do this I was thinking we have seen this crap before..

but he has won me over as knowing WTH he is doing..

I did not think we could win this game on D, and as the game wore on I was waiting for us to blow it.. I knew we were going to screw the pooch.. they could not hold back this offense.. They had been averaging 220 yards plus on the ground this year, had one of the biggest OLINE in the league...

I knew in my heart we could not hold on for 60 minutes that sooner or later someone would break a 45+ yarder..

I know that in the past we would have folded like a $15 tent in a hurricane....:laugh:

I liked what I heard about teamwork, having versatile players.. Damn I had NO idea this team could turn around like this in just a few games...:salute:

There aren't too many defenses that could have been on the field for 20 miinutes in the first half against that huge offensive line and a rushing attack that was putting up 200 rushing yards a game, and then go and shut them out for the last three quarters of the game.

That was very impressive. Normally, a defense that spends that much time on the field in the first half, implodes in the second half, because they are fatigued.

[Dirk]

Normally, a defense that spends that much time on the field in the first half, implodes in the second half, because they are fatigued.

It seems that the old days of a Shanny team playing hard for only 2 quarters a game are gone! Oh how I used to hate the Broncos giving up 1 to 2 quarters a game ever game to the other team. It was like they lost the wind in their sails for at least one quarter and tried to find it another quarter each game.

No MORE!! :salute: :defense:

[broncofaninfla]

Orton is getting way too much credit for our success to date. We are winning in spite of Orton and not because of him. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy we are 4-0 just not impressed with Orton or the passing offense. We've been fortunate to get by without much of a passing game to date. That won't be the case soon. We need a passing game.

[gregbroncs]

Honestly? SuperBowl contention.......period. With Jay Cutler this would be the best team going and a real SuperBowl contender, imo, and because of that I refuse to lower my expectations for any reason.

With all the posturing and excuse making from McDaniels backers before the season began, I was one of the few that said that "Real fans" have every reason to hold the team to higher expectations whether us trolls believed it or not.......Did I believe they'd be this good? **** No! But Broncos fans had every reason to expect 10+ wins and the playoffs even before we realized that the defense is as good as it is.......which might just be the very best defense in the league.

SuperBowl contention or fail for Josh McDaniels and the Denver Broncos, the defense is that good, no excuses necessary.

Does this mean I believe it'll happen? Not really, what I expect and what I predict are two different things, but go figure, this negative troll expected more from this team than the "Real fans".......
I have no doubt with Cutler in a Broncos jersey they lose that Cowboy game and probably the Bengal one as well. Orton has been great at making good choices and Cutler continually throws the ball in spots that he shouldn't. i have no idea what you saw in Cutler but what I saw was a gunslinger who thought he could make any pass no matter what the consequences if it missed. He also whined his way off of my team so **** him.

I would not change anything about this team right now. They are winning they have a QB who has not thrown an interception and has not cost his team a win (both things Cutler can not say this season). Orton's passing has been fine. I hope he is more accurate down the field when his glove comes off but for right now he has been just what this team needed.

[claymore]

I have no doubt with Cutler in a Broncos jersey they lose that Cowboy game and probably the Bengal one as well. Orton has been great at making good choices and Cutler continually throws the ball in spots that he shouldn't. i have no idea what you saw in Cutler but what I saw was a gunslinger who thought he could make any pass no matter what the consequences if it missed. He also whined his way off of my team so **** him.

I would not change anything about this team right now. They are winning they have a QB who has not thrown an interception and has not cost his team a win (both things Cutler can not say this season). Orton's passing has been fine. I hope he is more accurate down the field when his glove comes off but for right now he has been just what this team needed.
Orton makes really really bad throws as well. He has been lucky. Both TD's testerday went thru the hands of defenders.

He will either improve, or his luck will run out.

Cutler is/was way better than Orton, and you are in denial if you think otherwise.

[frauschieze]

It seems that the old days of a Shanny team playing hard for only 2 quarters a game are gone! Oh how I used to hate the Broncos giving up 1 to 2 quarters a game ever game to the other team. It was like they lost the wind in their sails for at least one quarter and tried to find it another quarter each game.

No MORE!! :salute: :defense:

Let's hear it for half time adjustments! :cheers:

[topscribe]

Orton is getting way too much credit for our success to date. We are winning in spite of Orton and not because of him. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy we are 4-0 just not impressed with Orton or the passing offense. We've been fortunate to get by without much of a passing game to date. That won't be the case soon. We need a passing game.

Right. The Broncos are winning despite Orton's average 97.7 QB rating for
the season and 117.5 yesterday. Ortonhas held the Broncos back, and they
have had to make up for him. What a silly remark. :tsk:


Orton makes really really bad throws as well. He has been lucky. Both TD's testerday went thru the hands of defenders.

He will either improve, or his luck will run out.

Cutler is/was way better than Orton, and you are in denial if you think otherwise.

Wow, are we still engaged in Cutler/Orton debates?

As for the Marshall TD, Orton explained that he intended that pass because
he knew Marshall would win that jump ball.

On the Moreno TD, Orton explained that he has known Spencer (the DE who
was covering Moreno) since high school, so he knew what he was challenging
there. Spencer did not intercept the ball because he was a DE, and because
the pass was thrown with pinpoint accuracy and tremendous velocity. As it
turns out Orton knew what he was doing. I've seen Orton do that before,
with the same kind of success.

-----

[Shazam!]

Orton makes really really bad throws as well. He has been lucky. Both TD's testerday went thru the hands of defenders.

He will either improve, or his luck will run out.

Cutler is/was way better than Orton, and you are in denial if you think otherwise.

When Denver tears NE a new one Clay, you won't be allowed on the Bandwagon. You've been officially kicked off... permanently. Unless you come with a Sam Adams six pack next week. Then... maybe.

[gregbroncs]

Orton makes really really bad throws as well. He has been lucky. Both TD's testerday went thru the hands of defenders.

He will either improve, or his luck will run out.

Cutler is/was way better than Orton, and you are in denial if you think otherwise.Cutler has more talent and a much better arm. But his head is not right. Cutler had more passes go through defender's hands per game last season than Orton has this year. Cutler continually forced balls into bad spots that hurt this team. Orton is not perfect, hello no QB is but his decision making is far superior to Cutler so far as I have seen.

The pass to Marshall is a typical NFL pass. Throw the ball short to a receiver covered 1 on 1 and let the receiver make the adjustment. It's a smart play when you trust your receiver.

The pass to Moreno was dangerous and could have been disastrous, however it was thrown where it was not picked and the receiver got the ball I don't consider that luck. It hit his receiver just perfect and was thrown hard enough that the defender was unable to make the play.

I do not regret Cutler not being here in the slightest and to argue having him makes them a contender with the mistakes he makes is silly. Cutler 5 INT's and cost his team 1 game already. Orton 0 INT's and has not made the mistakes that caused his team to lose.

[broncofaninfla]

Orton makes really really bad throws as well. He has been lucky. Both TD's testerday went thru the hands of defenders.

He will either improve, or his luck will run out.

Cutler is/was way better than Orton, and you are in denial if you think otherwise.

I agree. People on this board are giving Orton way too much credit for the teams success to date. His passing accuracy is very suspect right now, hopefully it will get better when the glove comes off. As for who is better, Orton doesn't have the skill set to take over a game, Cutler does. With 5 minutes left to go in the game and and say you are two TD's down does anybody really think Orton has the skill set to get us back in the game and or win it? Really?

[Shazam!]

This team was a game away from the Super Bowl with Jake Plummer at QB. Jake Plummer. Who was also athleticly inferior to Cutler.

Orton is no worldbeater but he has helped this team win not only by what he's done but by what he hasn't, turned the ball over.

I don't wanna hear 'Denver wins in spite of him' because that would mean he's done things to put Denver in a hole. He has not.

[Dreadnought]

I agree. People on this board are giving Orton way too much credit for the teams success to date. His passing accuracy is very suspect right now, hopefully it will get better when the glove comes off. As for who is better, Orton doesn't have the skill set to take over a game, Cutler does. With 5 minutes left to go in the game and and say you are two TD's down does anybody really think Orton has the skill set to get us back in the game and or win it? Really?

So far his tendancy is to start very badly and improve as the game continues. I hope he can improve his early game accuracy sooner rather than later. We have survived Orton's poor early throws because our defense has been superlative and the running game is producing beautifully. Both of those are testament to an improved work ethic on the team, some inspired FA aquisitions, and having cleared some abject duds off of the defensive lineup. I will happily credit McD with those things.

This trade may eventually be one that benefits both Bears and Broncos all things considered, but to try to sell Orton as equal or superior to Cutler is simply silly. Orton may well be servicable - we'll see as things progress further. The long term prospects for Denver look outstanding though, and we'll have to wait and see what long term role Orton plays in that. I think we would be a legit contender and a far better team with Cutler at QB, but that belief can't really ever be tested and doesn't matter anyway.

[gregbroncs]

I agree. People on this board are giving Orton way too much credit for the teams success to date. His passing accuracy is very suspect right now, hopefully it will get better when the glove comes off. As for who is better, Orton doesn't have the skill set to take over a game, Cutler does. With 5 minutes left to go in the game and and say you are two TD's down does anybody really think Orton has the skill set to get us back in the game and or win it? Really?
What credit. People are on here bashing on him and praising the guy who whined his way out of town. Pretty much forcing people to back the guy who has us 4-0. Most people know it is the defense that has carried us but all the McDaniels and Orton basher's want to talk about is how much better we would be if Cutler was still here. Well he's not and he won't be back. :rolleyes:

[topscribe]

I agree. People on this board are giving Orton way too much credit for the teams success to date. His passing accuracy is very suspect right now, hopefully it will get better when the glove comes off. As for who is better, Orton doesn't have the skill set to take over a game, Cutler does. With 5 minutes left to go in the game and and say you are two TD's down does anybody really think Orton has the skill set to get us back in the game and or win it? Really?

It is true Orton went through a rough stretch in the first half yesterday. In his
post-game presser yesterday, he said he still felt bad about missing Gaffney
on what would have been a sure TD.

But by games end, Orton had completed 69% of his passes. Seems that, in
talking this week about Orton's accuracy, your timing might be a bit off?

-----

[claymore]

Right. The Broncos are winning despite Orton's average 97.7 QB rating for
the season and 117.5 yesterday. Ortonhas held the Broncos back, and they
have had to make up for him. What a silly remark. :tsk:



Wow, are we still engaged in Cutler/Orton debates?

As for the Marshall TD, Orton explained that he intended that pass because
he knew Marshall would win that jump ball.

On the Moreno TD, Orton explained that he has known Spencer (the DE who
was covering Moreno) since high school, so he knew what he was challenging
there. Spencer did not intercept the ball because he was a DE, and because
the pass was thrown with pinpoint accuracy and tremendous velocity. As it
turns out Orton knew what he was doing. I've seen Orton do that before,
with the same kind of success.

-----


Cutler has more talent and a much better arm. But his head is not right. Cutler had more passes go through defender's hands per game last season than Orton has this year. Cutler continually forced balls into bad spots that hurt this team. Orton is not perfect, hello no QB is but his decision making is far superior to Cutler so far as I have seen.

The pass to Marshall is a typical NFL pass. Throw the ball short to a receiver covered 1 on 1 and let the receiver make the adjustment. It's a smart play when you trust your receiver.

The pass to Moreno was dangerous and could have been disastrous, however it was thrown where it was not picked and the receiver got the ball I don't consider that luck. It hit his receiver just perfect and was thrown hard enough that the defender was unable to make the play.

I do not regret Cutler not being here in the slightest and to argue having him makes them a contender with the mistakes he makes is silly. Cutler 5 INT's and cost his team 1 game already. Orton 0 INT's and has not made the mistakes that caused his team to lose. Im not going to argue with you guys., you are blinded with love and Hate, and I will get all kinds of personal MHS's, and negative personal comments.

[broncofaninfla]

This team was a game away from the Super Bowl with Jake Plummer at QB. Jake Plummer. Who was also athleticly inferior to Cutler.

Orton is no worldbeater but he has helped this team win not only by what he's done but by what he hasn't, turned the ball over.

I don't wanna hear 'Denver wins in spite of him' because that would mean he's done things to put Denver in a hole. He has not.

The only reason he doesn't have a pick yet is because the defenders have dropped the ball. Orton throws them in the dirt and he's playing it safe? Or he throws an almost pick and he is a good game manager? I don't get it. What happens if people shut down our running game?

[topscribe]

Im not going to argue with you guys., you are blinded with love and Hate, and I will get all kinds of personal MHS's, and negative personal comments.

I think this comment is way out of line as you apply it to me, Clay. All I have
done is to present facts and figures, and you have made general dispesions
without documentation, and you call me "blind."

And I have never, ever made a negative comment about you or to you, either
on the board or in private, except in jest. :coffee:

-----

[claymore]

I think this comment is way out of line as you apply it to me, Clay. All I have
done is to present facts and figures, and you have made general dispesions
without documentation, and you call me "blind."

And I have never, ever made a negative comment about you or to you, either
on the board or in private, except in jest. :coffee:

-----

I didnt say that they would come from you. Just in general. Im happy to be at 4-0. I just dont like our QB.

[topscribe]

The only reason he doesn't have a pick yet is because the defenders have dropped the ball. Orton throws them in the dirt and he's playing it safe? Or he throws an almost pick and he is a good game manager? I don't get it. What happens if people shut down our running game?

Let me say it once again: 69% of Orton's passes found their way into the
receivers' hands yesterday.

You're a week late in this argument . . .

-----

[Dreadnought]

I think this comment is way out of line as you apply it to me, Clay. All I have
done is to present facts and figures, and you have made general dispesions
without documentation, and you call me "blind."

And I have never, ever made a negative comment about you or to you, either
on the board or in private, except in jest. :coffee:

-----

I don't think he was directing it you by any stretch, because you've almost always made your points without getting personal on this topic.

Clay have received more than his share of cheap shots on the board over the past two months, and I can understand it getting pretty tiresome.

[Shazam!]

Yeah, some are blinded but no matter how many games the Broncos win there is something to complain about.

At this point Denver can be a Super Bowl team in January and if they lost there'd be nothing but bitching about it and 'I told you so's' rather than having enjoyed the ride.

It's really getting sickening at this point that Denver can beat New England next week and some people still would find shit to be unhappy about.

[gregbroncs]

The only reason he doesn't have a pick yet is because the defenders have dropped the ball. Orton throws them in the dirt and he's playing it safe? Or he throws an almost pick and he is a good game manager? I don't get it. What happens if people shut down our running game?
Yes you have to be a little lucky to not throw a pick through 4 games. But you also have to put yourself in less situation's where the defense can make the play. Defender's drop INT's that's why they are defender's but if you throw enough bad passes eventually you throw a pick. I have seen Orton have about 5-6 passes that could have been INT's. I also saw Cutler throw 5-6 passes per game that could have easily been picked off last year and that's the reason he threw so many.

[topscribe]

I don't think he was directing it you by any stretch, because you've almost always made your points without getting personal on this topic.

Clay have received more than his share of cheap shots on the board over the past two months, and I can understand it getting pretty tiresome.

I didn't know that. Seriously, he doesn't deserve them. Clay is a good poster
here. He and I may argue, but he is one of my best board friends here, and I
have his back in that regard.

-----

[broncofaninfla]

I didnt say that they would come from you. Just in general. Im happy to be at 4-0. I just dont like our QB.

I agree, I'm stoked we are 4-0, our defense is something special. I won't say I don't like Orton, seems like he would be cool to go out drinking with just have no faith in his ability or his skill set.

[GEM]

Orton is rated #7 in QB's. Cutler is 13.

Orton is our QB. Cutler is Chicago's.

Some may not like it, but it is what it is.

Some may never like Orton, but he is a Denver Bronco, so let's try and support him. :salute: Go Orton and Go Denver Broncos!!

[claymore]

I agree, I'm stoked we are 4-0, our defense is something special. I won't say I don't like Orton, seems like he would be cool to go out drinking with just have no faith in his ability or his skill set.

Yeah, I love the guy, I want him to be the answer. But I want an offensive attack that is based off of reality and not powered by luck.

[broncofaninfla]

Yes you have to be a little lucky to not throw a pick through 4 games. But you also have to put yourself in less situation's where the defense can make the play. Defender's drop INT's that's why they are defender's but if you throw enough bad passes eventually you throw a pick. I have seen Orton have about 5-6 passes that could have been INT's. I also saw Cutler throw 5-6 passes per game that could have easily been picked off last year and that's the reason he threw so many.


So do you think Orton has the skill set to take over a game when the running game is shut down and we need to passing game to carry us? Let's say we are several TD's down in the 4th do you think Orton has the skill set or the intangibles to pull it off for us?

[broncofaninfla]

Orton is rated #7 in QB's. Cutler is 13.

Orton is our QB. Cutler is Chicago's.

Some may not like it, but it is what it is.

Some may never like Orton, but he is a Denver Bronco, so let's try and support him. :salute: Go Orton and Go Denver Broncos!!

It's not that I even want Cutler back, I just don't have faith in Orton because of his limited skill set. As long as he is behind center for us I'm pulling for him but I still feel he is our weakest link. We are 4-0 and I am stoked about it but I want us to be even better. We have a special defense and a decent/solid running attack, we need a passing attack to go with that.

[claymore]

It's not that I even want Cutler back, I just don't have faith in Orton because of his limited skill set. As long as he is behind center for us I'm pulling for him but I still feel he is our weakest link. We are 4-0 and I am stoked about it but I want us to be even better. We have a special defense and a decent/solid running attack, we need a passing attack to go with that.

Im a Cutler fan because Vanderbilt is my college team, but I am over him being a Bronco.

[Dirk]

I still say the offense is finding it's way. They should be there by now but it's coming. I can feel it in the air!

[Shazam!]

Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson suck too with their Super Bowl rings and all.

[GEM]

It's not that I even want Cutler back, I just don't have faith in Orton because of his limited skill set. As long as he is behind center for us I'm pulling for him but I still feel he is our weakest link. We are 4-0 and I am stoked about it but I want us to be even better. We have a special defense and a decent/solid running attack, we need a passing attack to go with that.

I'm with ya. There is always room for improvement on every team. Our QB situation is what it is. Does it need improvement? HELL FREAKIN YES!!! I hope we look at other QB's when the season is over. BUT until that happens, I am behind Orton.

Everyone is guilty of bringing Cutler up. Those who hate him, those who love him. It's going to happen, but it gets sickening to listen to, know what I mean?

[Dirk]

Everyone is guilty of bringing Cutler up. Those who hate him, those who love him. It's going to happen, but it gets sickening to listen to, know what I mean?

That will probably never change. Win, lose or draw, his name will be brought up from here until the end of time. :tsk:

[claymore]

I still say the offense is finding it's way. They should be there by now but it's coming. I can feel it in the air!

Hopefully we can have a coming out party next Sunday.

[Shazam!]

Hopefully I can have a coming out party next Sunday

Edited. You will.

[topscribe]

So do you think Orton has the skill set to take over a game when the running game is shut down and we need to passing game to carry us? Let's say we are several TD's down in the 4th do you think Orton has the skill set or the intangibles to pull it off for us?

I don't know why not. He did it last year with the 27th ranked running game in
the NFL. Why couldn't he do it here with better receivers and a better O-line?
You're talking about something Orton has already done. I'm not trying to paint
Orton up as another Unitas, but when he has already displayed the skill set,
then I can say, yes, he does have it.

-----

[gregbroncs]

So do you think Orton has the skill set to take over a game when the running game is shut down and we need to passing game to carry us? Let's say we are several TD's down in the 4th do you think Orton has the skill set or the intangibles to pull it off for us?Honestly I don't know. But I believe with a QB like him we are far less likely to get behind by a few TD's and so that skill will not be needed as often as it will be with a QB like Cutler.

Cutler because of his risk taking may be better suited to getting a team back into a game but is also far more likely to be the reason they are in that situation to begin with.

Personally I would rather get to that situation less often.

[Dreadnought]

Honestly I don't know. But I believe with a QB like him we are far less likely to get behind by a few TD's and so that skill will not be needed as often as it will be with a QB like Cutler.

Cutler because of his risk taking may be better suited to getting a team back into a game but is also far more likely to be the reason they are in that situation to begin with.

Personally I would rather get to that situation less often.

The Bob Slowick defense demanded risk taking from our offense. A punt in 2007 - 2008 was little different than an interception, because whether defending a 40 or 80 yard field our defense was simply not up to the challenge - and there was no such thing as a safe lead either. Under those circumstances it was worse than useless for a QB to play safe; if there was a slim chance to keep a drive alive by a dangerous throw we'd better take it, because we couldn't afford to ever squander a scoring opportunity. Safer QB play would simply have equaled more losses the past two years.

That is clearly not the case this year, because we can actually stop people. Its even fun to watch us play defense again.

[NightTrainLayne]

The Bob Slowick defense demanded risk taking from our offense. A punt in 2007 - 2008 was little different than an interception, because whether defending a 40 or 80 yard field our defense was simply not up to the challenge - and there was no such thing as a safe lead either. Under those circumstances it was worse than useless for a QB to play safe; if there was a slim chance to keep a drive alive by a dangerous throw we'd better take it, because we couldn't afford to ever squander a scoring opportunity. Safer QB play would simply have equaled more losses the past two years.

That is clearly not the case this year, because we can actually stop people. Its even fun to watch us play defense again.

Be careful Dread. . .Step back from the ledge. ..you're only a step or two from falling for McD. :lol:

[topscribe]

Be careful Dread. . .Step back from the ledge. ..you're only a step or two from falling for McD. :lol:

Are you saying Dread is developing a man-crush? :D

-----

[gregbroncs]

The Bob Slowick defense demanded risk taking from our offense. A punt in 2007 - 2008 was little different than an interception, because whether defending a 40 or 80 yard field our defense was simply not up to the challenge - and there was no such thing as a safe lead either. Under those circumstances it was worse than useless for a QB to play safe; if there was a slim chance to keep a drive alive by a dangerous throw we'd better take it, because we couldn't afford to ever squander a scoring opportunity. Safer QB play would simply have equaled more losses the past two years.

That is clearly not the case this year, because we can actually stop people. Its even fun to watch us play defense again.This is a really good point. And something I did not consider enough. I still think he took unnecessary chances but maybe lack of confidence in the defense was a big reason why. It could also explain the meltdown in Chicago's 1st game as a carryover from the previous years.

I am still happy with the trade as we got 2 picks with Orton. In the end I don't like Cutler because of the whining he did before and after the new head coach was chosen.

[Dreadnought]

Be careful Dread. . .Step back from the ledge. ..you're only a step or two from falling for McD. :lol:

Hey, I'm thrilled with this season and being able to watch a defense take the field and actually play football. No lie - there were times the last two years I TiVo'd the game and paused it when the other team had the ball, then went through it quickly after taking a break just because watching those bums was stomach churning. I admire a lot of what we've done in 2009. I think McDaniels has done a superb job so far this season. I can be flexible, open to fresh evidence, and willing to adjust my thinking.


There is however no power on Earth that can ever convince me that trading Jay Cutler was good for the franchise - and for that I will forever blame McDaniels. It was a youthful mistake. Its also water under the bridge of course so now I have to hope this guy is successful going forward and keeps this thing on track. And so far he has done exactly that.

[claymore]

Hey, I'm thrilled with this season and being able to watch a defense take the field and actually play football. No lie - there were times the last two years I TiVo'd the game and paused it when the other team had the ball, then went through it quickly after taking a break just because watching those bums was stomach churning. I admire a lot of what we've done in 2009. I think McDaniels has done a superb job so far this season. I can be flexible, open to fresh evidence, and willing to adjust my thinking.


There is however no power on Earth that can ever convince me that trading Jay Cutler was good for the franchise - and for that I will forever blame McDaniels. It was a youthful mistake. Its also water under the bridge of course so now I have to hope this guy is successful going forward and keeps this thing on track. And so far he has done exactly that.
Zactly.

[Lonestar]

There aren't too many defenses that could have been on the field for 20 miinutes in the first half against that huge offensive line and a rushing attack that was putting up 200 rushing yards a game, and then go and shut them out for the last three quarters of the game.

That was very impressive. Normally, a defense that spends that much time on the field in the first half, implodes in the second half, because they are fatigued.


I am so totally impressed with what has been accomplished so far this year..

we have a long way to go yet this is not a completed painting..

lots of errors to correct and even when they get into the fine tune mode I bet Josh will still be telling the guys to improve. that we can get better and I suspect the TEAM will continue to work hard for this man..


I was so ready to see them fold up in the second quarter I could not almost even bear to watch..

this is not mikes team any more that is for sure..

while he had a great offense for most of his career here he certainly did not have a physical Punch them in the gut team..

Even during the Superbowl years we rarely held on to those up by 3 scores to win with the same margin.. we would get up BIG and then go into prevent on O and especially D to in some cases squeak by with a win..

I think Josh is teaching killer instinct something we have lacked for a long time..

to have a team that can turn it on when they have to is nice but I'd much rather have a blue collar group that can just keep on slugging it out all game and win going away opposed to winning by hanging on..

I suspect that is where we are headed..

[Dreadnought]

I was so ready to see them fold up in the second quarter I could not almost even bear to watch..

Tell me about it. Last year the sack/fumble by Renaldo Hill would never have happened, nor the cheap 7 points that came off of it. More likely would have been a 15 play scoring drive by Dallas and a 17-0 lead at the half. Ditto the 3rd quarter pick by Bailey to snuff out the opportunity to capitalize on Moreno's fumble, and the defensive hold that gave us the ball with 2+ minutes left, and the last stand at our own three, and on and on and on.

It was too easy for opponents to play keep-away against our defense and simply pound the ball down our throats in 7 minute scoring drives

[Lonestar]

Orton is getting way too much credit for our success to date. We are winning in spite of Orton and not because of him. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy we are 4-0 just not impressed with Orton or the passing offense. We've been fortunate to get by without much of a passing game to date. That won't be the case soon. We need a passing game.

your correct that we are winning but as for KO getting to much credit.. he has not cost us any games and in fact has won 4 so far.. and considering:

he has been playing with a glove on for the first time in his career..
had a dislocated finger, and umpteen stitches in the finger..
has not really gotten in tune with his WR's nor the WR with him..
has had to learn a completely new scheme..
did not have OUR #1 WR until regular season started..
marshall still is getting to KNOW the scheme..
Stokely was out of the game yesterday..
Eddie seems to be in sophomore slump..
the OLINE is not quite as good as thought (probably more from injury than anything else)..
OLINE learning different scheme..


I for one am looking forward to a work in progress sign all season for the O..

why anyone thought we would be good from day one is beyond me.. even with jay there would have been a learning curve..



Be careful Dread. . .Step back from the ledge. ..you're only a step or two from falling for McD. :lol:

some folks are afraid to commit yet..


Hey, I'm thrilled with this season and being able to watch a defense take the field and actually play football. No lie - there were times the last two years I TiVo'd the game and paused it when the other team had the ball, then went through it quickly after taking a break just because watching those bums was stomach churning. I admire a lot of what we've done in 2009. I think McDaniels has done a superb job so far this season. I can be flexible, open to fresh evidence, and willing to adjust my thinking.


There is however no power on Earth that can ever convince me that trading Jay Cutler was good for the franchise - and for that I will forever blame McDaniels. It was a youthful mistake. Its also water under the bridge of course so now I have to hope this guy is successful going forward and keeps this thing on track. And so far he has done exactly that.

and conversely there is no one that can ever convince me that we should have taken a QB in the draft in 2006 either.. we needed a DT or if not a DT a DE to help make the D worth a crap..

now we all know that even getting one or two of them would have helped our inept D and the coaches we had but that was what I wanted..

[Medford Bronco]

When Denver tears NE a new one Clay, you won't be allowed on the Bandwagon. You've been officially kicked off... permanently. Unless you come with a Sam Adams six pack next week. Then... maybe.

From your mouth to Gods here. I Live in NE and they would cry forever if the pupil beats the master. :beer:

It will be very hard as NE beat a great Balt team yesterday, but the Jets beat NE and we are just as good as the Jets. We shall see.

I have tremendous respect for NE but dont like em at all. :D

[Slick]

Im not going to argue with you guys., you are blinded with love and Hate, and I will get all kinds of personal MHS's, and negative personal comments.

I feel bad that people show the immaturity and give you shit via those methods Clay. It's low class. I also don't like being lumped in to a group that includes love and hate. Neither of which I get from professional football.

Greg makes a good point. It's not that we think Orton is Jesus in cleats. Some of us feel like we need to defend a guy who was a victim of circumstance. The guy makes good throws, and he makes some bad ones. He isn't turning it over whether he gets creamed like when the line imploded on him yesterday a few times.

His throw along with fantastic defense against the leagues #1 rushing attack won the game yesterday. Call it luck, call it what you want. Sometimes you make your own luck Clay. He could have checked down to a safer throw in that situation, he didn't, he threw a jump ball that Brandon made a hell of a play on, plus an outstanding run after the catch. Would you call that a lucky throw if jay had made it? Be honest with yourself.

He went from game manager to being asked to march us down and win the game. He did that yesterday. I commend him for it.

When I see you next year, I'm going to call you a douchebag. Then I will hug you, buy you a beer and a lap dance.

[Tned]

I am so totally impressed with what has been accomplished so far this year..

we have a long way to go yet this is not a completed painting..

lots of errors to correct and even when they get into the fine tune mode I bet Josh will still be telling the guys to improve. that we can get better and I suspect the TEAM will continue to work hard for this man..


I was so ready to see them fold up in the second quarter I could not almost even bear to watch..

this is not mikes team any more that is for sure..

while he had a great offense for most of his career here he certainly did not have a physical Punch them in the gut team..

Even during the Superbowl years we rarely held on to those up by 3 scores to win with the same margin.. we would get up BIG and then go into prevent on O and especially D to in some cases squeak by with a win..

I think Josh is teaching killer instinct something we have lacked for a long time..

to have a team that can turn it on when they have to is nice but I'd much rather have a blue collar group that can just keep on slugging it out all game and win going away opposed to winning by hanging on..

I suspect that is where we are headed..

Ok, so now we aren't just going to rewrite the history of the last three years, we are going to try and paint the SB years as what? Lucky - backing into SB wins? :confused:

[claymore]

I feel bad that people show the immaturity and give you shit via those methods Clay. It's low class. I also don't like being lumped in to a group that includes love and hate. Neither of which I get from professional football.

Greg makes a good point. It's not that we think Orton is Jesus in cleats. Some of us feel like we need to defend a guy who was a victim of circumstance. The guy makes good throws, and he makes some bad ones. He isn't turning it over whether he gets creamed like when the line imploded on him yesterday a few times.

His throw along with fantastic defense against the leagues #1 rushing attack won the game yesterday. Call it luck, call it what you want. Sometimes you make your own luck Clay. He could have checked down to a safer throw in that situation, he didn't, he threw a jump ball that Brandon made a hell of a play on, plus an outstanding run after the catch. Would you call that a lucky throw if jay had made it? Be honest with yourself.

He went from game manager to being asked to march us down and win the game. He did that yesterday. I commend him for it.

When I see you next year, I'm going to call you a douchebag. Then I will hug you, buy you a beer and a lap dance.
I heard this before, and heard it agian last night. Luck is being prepared when the opportunity presents itself ( or something like that). I believe in Both cases of luck we were prepared to take advantage.

Im sure Orton will wear me down and grow on me as well. But gosh damn..... It is 3 hours and 58 minutes of cussing and swearing with at the guy, and 2 minutes of I love saying I love you douche bag.

I just hope he progressively gets better. Our 3rd down percentage is terrible, lots of room for improvement. JMCD has almost won me over, and Nolan... I love that guy and the defense, love them too.

[Lonestar]

Ok, so now we aren't just going to rewrite the history of the last three years, we are going to try and paint the SB years as what? Lucky - backing into SB wins? :confused:

how many of those games did we have 2-3 TD leads on only to coast in the second half and not have to kick last minutes FGs to win or put the game out of reach..

perhaps the games are back that far at NFL.com but I think they only go back to 2001 or so..

perhaps someone with teh SUPERbowls season on DVD can check it out and then I will be glad to take back my assertions..but I remember many games that we hung on to win close when we were up by alot mid second quarter.

the team was that good they could turn it off and on at will.. but they coasted to many of those wins in the third and most of the fourth quarters..

I realize a lot of folks want to think that mike was the best ever but the guy had flaws.. I do not think he ever cared for D or having a great D just wanted to play O and out score everyone..

John won held the comeback win record for a reason with many of them on mike watch..

[pnbronco]

I feel bad that people show the immaturity and give you shit via those methods Clay. It's low class. I also don't like being lumped in to a group that includes love and hate. Neither of which I get from professional football.

Greg makes a good point. It's not that we think Orton is Jesus in cleats. Some of us feel like we need to defend a guy who was a victim of circumstance. The guy makes good throws, and he makes some bad ones. He isn't turning it over whether he gets creamed like when the line imploded on him yesterday a few times.

His throw along with fantastic defense against the leagues #1 rushing attack won the game yesterday. Call it luck, call it what you want. Sometimes you make your own luck Clay. He could have checked down to a safer throw in that situation, he didn't, he threw a jump ball that Brandon made a hell of a play on, plus an outstanding run after the catch. Would you call that a lucky throw if jay had made it? Be honest with yourself.

He went from game manager to being asked to march us down and win the game. He did that yesterday. I commend him for it.

When I see you next year, I'm going to call you a douchebag. Then I will hug you, buy you a beer and a lap dance.


Well, well put Slick. Do I think that Orton is a great QB, heck no but he has worked his tail off to do what the team has asked him to do. The day after he got traded he was here in Denver and was studying tape after tape to learn the new system. They told him he could take his time but he made a committment to the team and has nothing but work.

The man has taken so much crap for just trying to do what has been asked of him. He didn't ask for any of it, so it feels like we should defend him, plus he's a really, really nice man.

Between his work ethics, Dawkins fire and Coaches abilities I've been impressed watching this team.

[broncofaninfla]

I heard this before, and heard it agian last night. Luck is being prepared when the opportunity presents itself ( or something like that). I believe in Both cases of luck we were prepared to take advantage.

Im sure Orton will wear me down and grow on me as well. But gosh damn..... It is 3 hours and 58 minutes of cussing and swearing with at the guy, and 2 minutes of I love saying I love you douche bag.

I just hope he progressively gets better. Our 3rd down percentage is terrible, lots of room for improvement. JMCD has almost won me over, and Nolan... I love that guy and the defense, love them too.

I feel the same way.

[Dreadnought]

Its always a danger of nostalgia. The 97-98 Bronco teams were offensive forces first and foremost; they may have been among the weakest defensive teams to win Superbowls. Thats not to say they were awful, just kind of ordinary. It was on Offense those teams absolutely shined, with Elway (HOF) teamed with TD (should be HOF), arguably the best trio of pass catchers ever to play together in one unit, and an O-line that was a work of Art from Alex Gibbs. They could run, they could pass, they could even kick extra long FG's - but they were never a top notch defensive team.

[Tned]

how many of those games did we have 2-3 TD leads on only to coast in the second half and not have to kick last minutes FGs to win or put the game out of reach..

perhaps the games are back that far at NFL.com but I think they only go back to 2001 or so..

perhaps someone with teh SUPERbowls season on DVD can check it out and then I will be glad to take back my assertions..but I remember many games that we hung on to win close when we were up by alot mid second quarter.

the team was that good they could turn it off and on at will.. but they coasted to many of those wins in the third and most of the fourth quarters..

I realize a lot of folks want to think that mike was the best ever but the guy had flaws.. I do not think he ever cared for D or having a great D just wanted to play O and out score everyone..

John won held the comeback win record for a reason with many of them on mike watch..

The vast majority of his comebacks were on Reeve's watch. Yes, he had some in the later years, but nowhere near as many.

I'm just wondering when the history rewriting and shanny bashing will end.

Someone brings up Cutler in any positive light, and 10+ people jump all over him, but Shanny and Cutler bashing is ok to bring up, regardless of the thread topic? :confused:

I just think it's time to move on, or let all opinions be expressed, not just the pro-McDaniels and anti-Cutler/anti-Shanahan (this is a general frustration, as I have not seen you jump on the people that say nice things about Culer, where other 'fans' have).

Right now, people that say something positive about Shanahan or Cutler get jumped on. People that say anything critical of Orton or McDaniels, get jumped on. People that trash Cutler or Shanahan, get applauded.

I'm just all for letting history COMPLETELY go, or allowing both sides of the debate to express themselves -- currently, that is not allowed by the fan police.

/rant

[Slick]

Its always a danger of nostalgia. The 97-98 Bronco teams were offensive forces first and foremost; they may have been among the weakest defensive teams to win Superbowls. Thats not to say they were awful, just kind of ordinary. It was on Offense those teams absolutely shined, with Elway (HOF) teamed with TD (should be HOF), arguably the best trio of pass catchers ever to play together in one unit, and an O-line that was a work of Art from Alex Gibbs. They could run, they could pass, they could even kick extra long FG's - but they were never a top notch defensive team.

I liked to call them an opportunistic D. Gordon, Crockett and Braxton made timely picks during those seasons, and Alfred Williams and Neil Smith had the timely sacks when we needed them. Romo was good for running his mouth, getting into the heads of opposing players when he wasn't busy breaking Kerry Collins' jaw. That was a fun team to watch.

[Lonestar]

Well, well put Slick. Do I think that Orton is a great QB, heck no but he has worked his tail off to do what the team has asked him to do. The day after he got traded he was here in Denver and was studying tape after tape to learn the new system. They told him he could take his time but he made a commitment to the team and has nothing but work.

The man has taken so much crap for just trying to do what has been asked of him. He didn't ask for any of it, so it feels like we should defend him, plus he's a really, really nice man.

Between his work ethics, Dawkins fire and Coaches abilities I've been impressed watching this team.



had KO been a FA and wanted Big money to sign here, EH I could see folks taking shots at him..

but the kid got thrown into a really hot frying pan and has win in spite of the circumstances..

take shots at Josh if you think you have to.. but KO has done nothing but bust his ass for the TEAM and fans of DEN..

and frankly anyone taking shots at Josh right now would look pretty stupid..

[Lonestar]

Its always a danger of nostalgia. The 97-98 Bronco teams were offensive forces first and foremost; they may have been among the weakest defensive teams to win Superbowls. Thats not to say they were awful, just kind of ordinary. It was on Offense those teams absolutely shined, with Elway (HOF) teamed with TD (should be HOF), arguably the best trio of pass catchers ever to play together in one unit, and an O-line that was a work of Art from Alex Gibbs. They could run, they could pass, they could even kick extra long FG's - but they were never a top notch defensive team.

the team was great offensively no doubt about it able to turn the O on and off like a water spigot.. but then with 3-5 HOF players one would hope so..

but the defense as you put it not great.. they made some plays from time to time.. but we should have coasted to many BIG wins those years but did not..

when you get 2-4 TD leads the defense should be able to not allow them to catch up or go ahead by late in the game.. only to have Elam have to kick a late second FG to keep the win..

mike team never had a killer instinct.. IMHO.. :tsk:

Tned and I will have to agree to disagree on mike the mastermind and HOF candidacy:laugh:

[Lonestar]

I liked to call them an opportunistic D. Gordon, Crockett and Braxton made timely picks during those seasons, and Alfred Williams and Neil Smith had the timely sacks when we needed them. Romo was good for running his mouth, getting into the heads of opposing players when he wasn't busy breaking Kerry Collins' jaw. That was a fun team to watch.


but they were not remotely like the defenses of years past not many shut downs in those years..

I like what I am seeing so far this year.. and it looks alot like 1977 again..

[Tned]

Its always a danger of nostalgia. The 97-98 Bronco teams were offensive forces first and foremost; they may have been among the weakest defensive teams to win Superbowls. Thats not to say they were awful, just kind of ordinary. It was on Offense those teams absolutely shined, with Elway (HOF) teamed with TD (should be HOF), arguably the best trio of pass catchers ever to play together in one unit, and an O-line that was a work of Art from Alex Gibbs. They could run, they could pass, they could even kick extra long FG's - but they were never a top notch defensive team.

And, they were HIGH scoing first quarter teams. Dominating the first quarter and first half, to the point where Shanahan would sometimes start to run out the clock at the end of the half, or beginning of the second half.

It used to irritate me, because 'sometimes' that did let other teams in, and we would have been better off running the score up.

[Tned]

Tned and I will have to agree to disagree on mike the mastermind and HOF candidacy:laugh:

I prefer we just agree to stop using any thread, regardless of the topic, as an opportunity to bash him... ;)

[Dreadnought]

And, they were HIGH scoing first quarter teams. Dominating the first quarter and first half, to the point where Shanahan would sometimes start to run out the clock at the end of the half, or beginning of the second half.

It used to irritate me, because 'sometimes' that did let other teams in, and we would have been better off running the score up.

Exactly - it seemed like they would often have an opponent down three scores midway through the second quarter and put it in cruise control. As for letting other teams back? Remember, we were also nearly injury free those years in part because we were lucky and maybe in part because we could sit guys late. How many 4th quarters did Terrell Davis sit out on 98? Arguably it cost him the rushing record, but it theoretically guaranteed his health come post season. I'd rather have the SB trophy

[TXBRONC]

Its always a danger of nostalgia. The 97-98 Bronco teams were offensive forces first and foremost; they may have been among the weakest defensive teams to win Superbowls. Thats not to say they were awful, just kind of ordinary. It was on Offense those teams absolutely shined, with Elway (HOF) teamed with TD (should be HOF), arguably the best trio of pass catchers ever to play together in one unit, and an O-line that was a work of Art from Alex Gibbs. They could run, they could pass, they could even kick extra long FG's - but they were never a top notch defensive team.

If remember correctly Denver was first team to win a Super Bowl with defense not ranked in the top ten during the regular season in fact I think they were ranked about 15th or 16th both years.

[Northman]

I agree. People on this board are giving Orton way too much credit for the teams success to date.

You mean not turning over the ball is giving him too much credit? How bout not giving him enough credit? Seriously, you guys are just flat out embarrassing. Last year when Cutler was turning the ball over time after time in the endzone (oh, and what happened to Jay in the second Charger game? You made a statement he could bring you down from 2 TD's? lol). Oh, thats right. Its somebody else's fault that he threw those picks. When your done flip flopping on your arguement then we can talk serious football. Does JC have a stronger arm than Orton. Yes, tell me something a chimp doesnt know. But your also blowing more smoke up our asses by proclaiming JC to be a HOF before he has even gotten to a playoff game. I'll say it again, ill take a Qb who takes care of the ball and wins us ballgames over a stat guy any day of the week.

[underrated29]

How is this another Jay arguement.

Here:

This should end it all right now!!!

WE ARE CURRENTLY 17TH IN SCORING! LAST YEAR WE WERE 17TH IN SCORING!

Yet we are winning Ball Games.



WHY????




BECAUSE WE HAVE A DEFENSE!!!! WE ARE NOW A COMPLETE TEAM!!!


stop putting down jay, stop saying Orton is more efficient. They have no bearing on our team in any facet.

No, we cant score at will. But we dont have too.



WHY???


BECAUSE WE HAVE A DEFENSE!!!

DEFENSE
DEFENSE


DEFENSE.



Knock Knock..

Who's there......?






DEFENSE!


Everyone get it now. The focus is on the team, and where we changed for the better, and why we are winning. It is no where else except for the defense.



take whatever QB you want. It wont matter unless they have a defense like we do now. Without the defense you will get the same record despite your qb.

[Mike]

It also helps to not be turning the ball over. That combined with the defense is the reason the team is winning.