Why were we fooled by one good game?

[Medford Bronco]

I even admit it I was fooled by the KC game

The Broncos have been up and down all season long

the last road game they were pathetic in Oak

they gave away a game vs the Bears and before that beat a Tennesse team with no Haynesworth.

you are what you are 6-8 is not good.

but when you are inconsistent on defense you will never win

I hope major changes to the defense come next season..

I do not mind the kids from FLA, Champ and DJ Williams
but the rest can go as far as I am concerened

they need a Major overhaul IMO


Oh well, now I only can root for my office pool and for Dallas for my best friend now.

[Nomad]

We can only hope Merriman stays on the sideline for the BRONCOS game because I'm very negative about the Chargers and Vikings games.

[Medford Bronco]

We can only hope Merriman stays on the sideline for the BRONCOS game because I'm very negative about the Chargers and Vikings games.

Its called honesty, even without Merriman the Broncos are going to get smoked in SD.

[rcsodak]

WHO was fooled?

You play a crappy team, you BETTER blow them out, even if your team is crappy also!

This team is bad in so many areas, I don't know where you start.

Of course, defense needs a retooling, but bringing in a bunch of new guys isn't the answer, imo. That's what got them in trouble in the first place.

And drafting heavy on the dline, is going to FURTHER the rebuilding process.

I just think denver is going to have a couple more years of mediocre records, and we might as well get used to it.

[NameUsedBefore]

That's the million dollar question. How do we beat teams like the Steelers and Titans, yet lose to Oakland and the Texans?

[Medford Bronco]

That's the million dollar question. How do we beat teams like the Steelers and Titans, yet lose to Oakland and the Texans?

those games we won were at home
the losses were on the road

simple answer. 2-5 on the road and most likely 2-6 is not good

[Requiem / The Dagda]

I'm very surprised that people actually thought we were going to be a competitive team this year, and even more surprised that after we had a half-dozen starters or quality players go down, that fans would actually think we had a shot at winning. Oh, I know it's great to root for your team and hope for the best and all - but this team wasn't going anywhere. That loss to the Lions should have put everything in perspective for any fans of this team. I'll always cheer to win, I'll always hope for a Broncos W, but Tnedator was dead right on us being the most spoiled fans in football.

I think a season like this is something we need. It'll put a lot of things into perspective, and as always - a poor record will give us higher picks and more ample opportunities to add youth and talent to the roster. This team needs more than an overhaul of just talent, but with players who have a passion for the game. You just don't see that kind of leadership, toughness and heart on this roster this year. We need people who will play each game like it's their last, not people who are playing for a paycheck and think they deserve to be there.

This game is clear evidence for myriad of problems facing this team:


Our offensive tackles are poor pass blockers, any quality player has owned Lepsis and Pears all year long. Tonight was no exception. Ryan Harris should be starting right now, but why isn't he? We need to draft another OT, and this would be the draft to do it in.

Our whole defense plays bad when the front four play terrible. Our interior defensive line is bad, and our defensive ends don't even know what "contain" means. We need some youth here, and some veteran leadership.

Brandon Marshall and Tony Scheffler are studs, but can we please get healthy, viable options besides them? Stokley and Walker would be great to have back healthy, but that's just the deal. HEALTH. Draft another young gun (doesn't have to be top two rounds, but it'd be nice to get one early) to pair with Cutler. It'll only make him better.

Linebackers are having a tough time due to porous play up front. We could use a nice young buck there too.

There's so much more to say, but I'd get bummed out typing it.

This team is in desperate need of talent, personnel, coaching and attitude adjustments. Period.

[Stargazer]

I even admit it I was fooled by the KC game

The Broncos have been up and down all season long

the last road game they were pathetic in Oak

they gave away a game vs the Bears and before that beat a Tennesse team with no Haynesworth.

you are what you are 6-8 is not good.

but when you are inconsistent on defense you will never win

I hope major changes to the defense come next season..

I do not mind the kids from FLA, Champ and DJ Williams
but the rest can go as far as I am concerened

they need a Major overhaul IMO


Oh well, now I only can root for my office pool and for Dallas for my best friend now.

I wasn't fooled by the great #'s against the Chiefs. Sure, the optimism was higher. But, look at who we played. The Chiefs are a trainwreck themselves.

[BroncoWave]

Some weeks Shanny seems like the coach of the year, and games like tonight it seems like he couldn't coach my ass how to fart.

[Medford Bronco]

Some weeks Shanny seems like the coach of the year, and games like tonight it seems like he couldn't coach my ass how to fart.

that is funny:laugh: but does Shanny make this a bad run defense

I do not think so.

Our personel on defense save for a couple of players is not good

[BANJOPICKER1]

I'm very surprised that people actually thought we were going to be a competitive team this year, and even more surprised that after we had a half-dozen starters or quality players go down, that fans would actually think we had a shot at winning. Oh, I know it's great to root for your team and hope for the best and all - but this team wasn't going anywhere. That loss to the Lions should have put everything in perspective for any fans of this team. I'll always cheer to win, I'll always hope for a Broncos W, but Tnedator was dead right on us being the most spoiled fans in football.

I think a season like this is something we need. It'll put a lot of things into perspective, and as always - a poor record will give us higher picks and more ample opportunities to add youth and talent to the roster. This team needs more than an overhaul of just talent, but with players who have a passion for the game. You just don't see that kind of leadership, toughness and heart on this roster this year. We need people who will play each game like it's their last, not people who are playing for a paycheck and think they deserve to be there.

This game is clear evidence for myriad of problems facing this team:


Our offensive tackles are poor pass blockers, any quality player has owned Lepsis and Pears all year long. Tonight was no exception. Ryan Harris should be starting right now, but why isn't he? We need to draft another OT, and this would be the draft to do it in.

Our whole defense plays bad when the front four play terrible. Our interior defensive line is bad, and our defensive ends don't even know what "contain" means. We need some youth here, and some veteran leadership.

Brandon Marshall and Tony Scheffler are studs, but can we please get healthy, viable options besides them? Stokley and Walker would be great to have back healthy, but that's just the deal. HEALTH. Draft another young gun (doesn't have to be top two rounds, but it'd be nice to get one early) to pair with Cutler. It'll only make him better.

Linebackers are having a tough time due to porous play up front. We could use a nice young buck there too.

There's so much more to say, but I'd get bummed out typing it.

This team is in desperate need of talent, personnel, coaching and attitude adjustments. Period.

How about injurys??Didnt Gold go out tonight??Hasnt our whole year been about injurys?Seems to me if we get a healthy Broncos,,we win games but a Beat up Broncos team will STINK!!!!

[Stargazer]

Our offensive tackles are poor pass blockers, any quality player has owned Lepsis and Pears all year long. Tonight was no exception. Ryan Harris should be starting right now, but why isn't he? We need to draft another OT, and this would be the draft to do it in.

Our whole defense plays bad when the front four play terrible. Our interior defensive line is bad, and our defensive ends don't even know what "contain" means. We need some youth here, and some veteran leadership.

Brandon Marshall and Tony Scheffler are studs, but can we please get healthy, viable options besides them? Stokley and Walker would be great to have back healthy, but that's just the deal. HEALTH. Draft another young gun (doesn't have to be top two rounds, but it'd be nice to get one early) to pair with Cutler. It'll only make him better.

Linebackers are having a tough time due to porous play up front. We could use a nice young buck there too.

There's so much more to say, but I'd get bummed out typing it.

This team is in desperate need of talent, personnel, coaching and attitude adjustments. Period.

Lepsis & Pears should be canned. Two micro surgeries has done him in. Maybe he'll comeback next year strong. But, it's not looking like it. He's been completely owned all season.

Interior needs to be fixed. Hopefully Thomas will continue to grow next season. The other DT. Well... Dumerville has the stats, but he's terrible against the run. Will he improve? The other end sucks. John, why the heck are you starting in this league today. Moss/Crowder must continue to grow to start NEXT season or draft another end.

LB's are having a tough time because of the front 4. BUT, Gold and Webster need to go. I'm so sick of them and they just need to go. Williams can hold the middle, but must have better LB's around him. Winborn, go back to special teams ace.

Safeties. Must improve. Lynch/Fergy/Hamza. Must draft/sign better players. There must be improvement in this area. I would love to see both Lynch & Fergy go. They're not going to be around anyway by the time this team finally turns it around. Dump them both and get it over with. Go Hamza, draft say Kenny Phillips or sign a S via free agency.

[Stargazer]

that is funny:laugh: but does Shanny make this a bad run defense

I do not think so.



He does. His hand & foot is in on personnel decisions. So Shanny should be blamed.

[Stargazer]

:tsk:
How about injurys??Didnt Gold go out tonight??Hasnt our whole year been about injurys?Seems to me if we get a healthy Broncos,,we win games but a Beat up Broncos team will STINK!!!!

So if Gold plays we win?:laugh: The Broncos pulled within 4 points. Guess what, the defense once again lays a HUGE turd.:tsk:

[Hawgdriver]

I'm very surprised that people actually thought we were going to be a competitive team this year, and even more surprised that after we had a half-dozen starters or quality players go down, that fans would actually think we had a shot at winning. Oh, I know it's great to root for your team and hope for the best and all - but this team wasn't going anywhere. That loss to the Lions should have put everything in perspective for any fans of this team. I'll always cheer to win, I'll always hope for a Broncos W, but Tnedator was dead right on us being the most spoiled fans in football.

I think a season like this is something we need. It'll put a lot of things into perspective, and as always - a poor record will give us higher picks and more ample opportunities to add youth and talent to the roster. This team needs more than an overhaul of just talent, but with players who have a passion for the game. You just don't see that kind of leadership, toughness and heart on this roster this year. We need people who will play each game like it's their last, not people who are playing for a paycheck and think they deserve to be there.

This game is clear evidence for myriad of problems facing this team:


Our offensive tackles are poor pass blockers, any quality player has owned Lepsis and Pears all year long. Tonight was no exception. Ryan Harris should be starting right now, but why isn't he? We need to draft another OT, and this would be the draft to do it in.

Our whole defense plays bad when the front four play terrible. Our interior defensive line is bad, and our defensive ends don't even know what "contain" means. We need some youth here, and some veteran leadership.

Brandon Marshall and Tony Scheffler are studs, but can we please get healthy, viable options besides them? Stokley and Walker would be great to have back healthy, but that's just the deal. HEALTH. Draft another young gun (doesn't have to be top two rounds, but it'd be nice to get one early) to pair with Cutler. It'll only make him better.

Linebackers are having a tough time due to porous play up front. We could use a nice young buck there too.

There's so much more to say, but I'd get bummed out typing it.

This team is in desperate need of talent, personnel, coaching and attitude adjustments. Period.

nice assessment, concur on all points.

[BANJOPICKER1]

:tsk:

So if Gold plays we win?:laugh: The Broncos pulled within 4 points. Guess what, the defense once again lays a HUGE turd.:tsk:

QUOTE
Hasnt our whole year been about injurys??

Guess you didnt get it!!:D
You almost sounded good though!

[omac]

I tried to watch the game, but my internet connection couldn't keep up with the feed at NFL.com; I did gather from the 1st play that the Texans had a pretty easy time scoring on the first drive.

But the way this season's gone, I don't think most people were fooled at all. We've had up and down games, and a short week to prepare and go to a pumped up Houston crowd couldn't have helped. To say this Denver team has had some personel transitions in key areas is putting it lightly. A lot of these guys haven't played together much. Also, at least in the case of the defense, they've been changing approaches mid-season, trying to find something that works.

And like I've been saying, this defense gambles a lot, and can get burned by teams that can pass well, and Houston definitely can pass well. Houston's defense is much better than their record indicates, and definitely better than ours. They've spent 2 very high draft picks on their defensive line, and the other guy was defensive rookie of the year, if I'm not mistaken.

I saw a recent interview of a defensive player from GB (he had dreadlocks), and they asked him, what was the difference between the GB defense that was so terrible, and the stout defense that GB has now. He said that the team's been together for a while and know each other and know where everyone's gonna be. I don't know how many more changes in personel or schemes that Denver will go through going into the offseason, but there will come a point where they have to decide what scheme to use, and which players to rely on, and stick with it.

Sometimes, a team just needs time to gel and mature as a unit.

If you've followed some of Houston's games, specially before their avalanche of injuries, you'd see that at the start of the season, they were a very sharp team on all 3 aspects of the game, much better than Denver, specially on defense and ST. Coming into this game, they've just beaten a tough Tampa team. Anyone who thought that Denver would have an easy time against these guys was definitely fooling themselves. Same goes for anyone who thought Denver turned the corner; they've just been patching up their weaknesses all season, and sometimes doing a pretty convincing job of it.

Anyway, congrats to Kubiak, he's building a real good team there. :salute:

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Oh, of course injuries have hurt this team. Any time you lost a half dozen starters and replace them with rookie or first-year players with little experience they're going to struggle. I think this team has performed admirably given the circumstances. If we went 7-9 or 8-8, I'd consider that a success since this team is pretty much in "limbo" right now.

It's nothing to get disappoointed about. In another year or so, with Cutler and friends meshing - with some new leaders on defense, etc. we'll be a formidable foe in the AFC again. As fans we've had the luxury of rooting for a consistent franchise who can contend (for the playoffs, not sure Super Bowl) year in and year out.

This season has put a lot of things into perspective for myself, and I'm sure a lot of you. It's hard sitting on this side of the fence. Was really too young to understand the greatness of our Super Bowl wins, and too young to understand the transition and rebuilding post-Elway. After ten years of being a fan, now I know. It's good to know too, even if it's at the expense of a few curse words, shouts and hand pounds on the desk.

I try not to worry about this team and get all caught up in the drama. I can't control how they perform on Sunday's - so I shouldn't be too attached. I'm a huge fan, but I can't sweat the small stuff. Now that we're out of the playoffs (I'd say?) we can focus on what we can do to improve this team. I sure hope the coaching staff and scouting department is looking in that direction too.

[Stargazer]

On defense, you just don't see players who teams literally fear. There's no Urlacher. There's no Ray Lewis in his heyday. There's no Reggie White. There's no, well you get the point. There are no players who will rip the heads off of the offense. There's no nasty. There's no roid rage Merriman running around.

[saddletramp]

That's the million dollar question. How do we beat teams like the Steelers and Titans, yet lose to Oakland and the Texans?

Is it possible that we just start thinking about the upcoming game before we finish the one we are playing in???

Like Oklahoma vs. Colorado?

Thats the only reason I can see why OU lost that game.

Is that a possibility?

[BANJOPICKER1]

On defense, you just don't see players who teams literally fear. There's no Urlacher. There's no Ray Lewis in his heyday. There's no Reggie White. There's no, well you get the point. There are no players who will rip the heads off of the offense. There's no nasty. There's no roid rage Merriman running around.

Dont we have some ex Cleveland fella on IR that was getting double teamed last year before he got injured??You dont think that the fact no one tosses many balls in Champs side of the field points to worry/fear??
I think a team thats just playing well together is more worrysome than a single Ray Lewis or who ever...We are not playing well together this year due to injurys...Next year!!

[TXBRONC]

That's the million dollar question. How do we beat teams like the Steelers and Titans, yet lose to Oakland and the Texans?


I guess because they were home games.

[Medford Bronco]

Is it possible that we just start thinking about the upcoming game before we finish the one we are playing in???

Like Oklahoma vs. Colorado?

Thats the only reason I can see why OU lost that game.

Is that a possibility?


if that is possibly its sad for a team that is 6-7 playing a team that it should at least take to the wire better

just not a good team that is for sure

[Requiem / The Dagda]

On defense, you just don't see players who teams literally fear. There's no Urlacher. There's no Ray Lewis in his heyday. There's no Reggie White. There's no, well you get the point. There are no players who will rip the heads off of the offense. There's no nasty. There's no roid rage Merriman running around.

I'll second this, and a part of me wants to re-hash how this defense has no identity. We have some quality players, but it all starts up front. If we're not winning the trenches, we're going to lose ball games. I'm not sure what it is, I think it's a collection of problems (with injuries, etc.) that have piled up over the season, but this team just doesn't seem to have "it" at all.

I'd expect more, especially when you have the tragic passing of two beloved friends/players who are no longer there to help you on the field. I'd think that the passings of Williams and Nash would have been an extrinsic motivator for this team throughout the season to help them play inspired football. Earlier on in the season Lynch told people in the huddle to "Honor them by the way you play the game." and by no means am I trying to be pessimistic, but they have dishonored them by playing this poorly.

I know Williams got a lot of criticism (from myself) for gambling and taking risks, and on occasion getting beat - but I will always admire the fact he brought it every down and showed emotion on the field and tried to get people into the game. You just don't see that here anymore, and I'm not sure what it is. Perhaps the passing of two teammates is enough to exhaust anyone mentally, along with the fact they're playing every Sunday.

It's just sad to see this team right now. It's like putting together pieces of puzzles that don't go together. Real tough.

[Stargazer]

I tried to watch the game, but my internet connection couldn't keep up with the feed at NFL.com; I did gather from the 1st play that the Texans had a pretty easy time scoring on the first drive.

But the way this season's gone, I don't think most people were fooled at all. We've had up and down games, and a short week to prepare and go to a pumped up Houston crowd couldn't have helped. To say this Denver team has had some personel transitions in key areas is putting it lightly. A lot of these guys haven't played together much. Also, at least in the case of the defense, they've been changing approaches mid-season, trying to find something that works.

And like I've been saying, this defense gambles a lot, and can get burned by teams that can pass well, and Houston definitely can pass well. Houston's defense is much better than their record indicates, and definitely better than ours. They've spent 2 very high draft picks on their defensive line, and the other guy was defensive rookie of the year, if I'm not mistaken.

I saw a recent interview of a defensive player from GB (he had dreadlocks), and they asked him, what was the difference between the GB defense that was so terrible, and the stout defense that GB has now. He said that the team's been together for a while and know each other and know where everyone's gonna be. I don't know how many more changes in personel or schemes that Denver will go through going into the offseason, but there will come a point where they have to decide what scheme to use, and which players to rely on, and stick with it.

Sometimes, a team just needs time to gel and mature as a unit.

If you've followed some of Houston's games, specially before their avalanche of injuries, you'd see that at the start of the season, they were a very sharp team on all 3 aspects of the game, much better than Denver, specially on defense and ST. Coming into this game, they've just beaten a tough Tampa team. Anyone who thought that Denver would have an easy time against these guys was definitely fooling themselves. Same goes for anyone who thought Denver turned the corner; they've just been patching up their weaknesses all season, and sometimes doing a pretty convincing job of it.

Anyway, congrats to Kubiak, he's building a real good team there. :salute:

A Bates defense doesn't have to gamble. They play straight up. But, with our current lineup the defense had to be changed to possibly salvage the season. Give Jim Bates the players and it will improve. Denver just doesn't have the personnel right now. Hopefully, Bates is around to see this corrected. And I think he will. Give him his men, and he'll give you a damn good defense.

I think people were snookered by that drubbing of the Chiefs. I was optimistic in creating this thread, but reality was there. I still believe there are plenty to fix on both sides of the ball, but clearly more attention & money must be vested in the defense. There are problems with the offensive line. I believe the Henry/Young combo isn't enough to get things done, but with an improved OL they should be better. This offseason the Broncos have a chance to improve the defense and fix the OL. If these are fixed, the Boncos should head to the playoffs.

[arapaho2]

That's the million dollar question. How do we beat teams like the Steelers and Titans, yet lose to Oakland and the Texans?


two words....inconsistant coaching!!!!!

no matter what anyone says about the talent we have or dont have....a great set of coaches prepares a team to get the most out of them on both sides...even a great coached team you can expect a bad game once a year ....but a poorly coached teams gets them all the time

our offense lacked any sort of imagination...nothing to counter act the aggressiveness of the texans def....

our defense cannot fathom how to get pressure..maybe a blitz or two would help jim..ya think

[omac]

Oh, of course injuries have hurt this team. Any time you lost a half dozen starters and replace them with rookie or first-year players with little experience they're going to struggle. I think this team has performed admirably given the circumstances. If we went 7-9 or 8-8, I'd consider that a success since this team is pretty much in "limbo" right now.

It's nothing to get disappoointed about. In another year or so, with Cutler and friends meshing - with some new leaders on defense, etc. we'll be a formidable foe in the AFC again. As fans we've had the luxury of rooting for a consistent franchise who can contend (for the playoffs, not sure Super Bowl) year in and year out.

This season has put a lot of things into perspective for myself, and I'm sure a lot of you. It's hard sitting on this side of the fence. Was really too young to understand the greatness of our Super Bowl wins, and too young to understand the transition and rebuilding post-Elway. After ten years of being a fan, now I know. It's good to know too, even if it's at the expense of a few curse words, shouts and hand pounds on the desk.

I try not to worry about this team and get all caught up in the drama. I can't control how they perform on Sunday's - so I shouldn't be too attached. I'm a huge fan, but I can't sweat the small stuff. Now that we're out of the playoffs (I'd say?) we can focus on what we can do to improve this team. I sure hope the coaching staff and scouting department is looking in that direction too.

Very nice post, and very nice perspective.

At the start of the season, there are a lot of high hopes. As the season goes on, we see how the team really is. One thing very certain is that the defense could not get things done using Bates' scheme; they've gotten better results putting 8 in the box, but that obviously has it's own built-in problems.

I just really hope Bates knows exactly what's wrong with the defense, and does what needs to be done to fix it soon. What I wouldn't want is spending another majority of the next season tinkering and making drastic changes to schemes and personel. By this offseason, Bates should know the scheme to use, the players to acquire, and get a very early start to implementing it for next season. That way, our defense starts weak, but ends the season strong. There was no growth this season by the defense in terms of the future scheme we'll use, so that's like a wasted season in that aspect.

[Watchthemiddle]

WHO was fooled?

You play a crappy team, you BETTER blow them out, even if your team is crappy also!

This team is bad in so many areas, I don't know where you start.

Of course, defense needs a retooling, but bringing in a bunch of new guys isn't the answer, imo. That's what got them in trouble in the first place.

And drafting heavy on the dline, is going to FURTHER the rebuilding process.

I just think denver is going to have a couple more years of mediocre records, and we might as well get used to it.

Thats what I am saying. Who is WE??

I read all these giddy little posts, threads, articles on here after the game against KC, but no one really wanted to admit ( except me and a few others ) that it was ONLY KC.

I said for the Broncos to do what they did to KC against a team that mattered and they couldn't.

Lets be realistic folks...this season has been bad and played by a bad team. RC your are correct...drafting heavy on the Dline is going to further the REBUILDING process and we might need to REBUILD for a couple of years. This team needs help and the QB needs work. Once we get depth in here and Jay some more coaching and experience, then we might be consistently competitive, but until then we are going to have a lot more seasons like this one.

[Watchthemiddle]

two words....inconsistant coaching!!!!!

no matter what anyone says about the talent we have or dont have....a great set of coaches prepares a team to get the most out of them on both sides...even a great coached team you can expect a bad game once a year ....but a poorly coached teams gets them all the time

our offense lacked any sort of imagination...nothing to counter act the aggressiveness of the texans def....

our defense cannot fathom how to get pressure..maybe a blitz or two would help jim..ya think

It looks like there is no imagination because the playbook is still very vanilla for Cutler. I thought we were going to be able to open it up with him back there??:confused: Huh, not this year.

The defense ...well, who knows what they are doing. THey need to go back and learn the fundamentals of football. Stay in your lanes/assignments and learn to tackle.

[omac]

A Bates defense doesn't have to gamble. They play straight up. But, with our current lineup the defense had to be changed to possibly salvage the season. Give Jim Bates the players and it will improve. Denver just doesn't have the personnel right now. Hopefully, Bates is around to see this corrected. And I think he will. Give him his men, and he'll give you a damn good defense.

I think people were snookered by that drubbing of the Chiefs. I was optimistic in creating this thread, but reality was there. I still believe there are plenty to fix on both sides of the ball, but clearly more attention & money must be vested in the defense. There are problems with the offensive line. I believe the Henry/Young combo isn't enough to get things done, but with an improved OL they should be better. This offseason the Broncos have a chance to improve the defense and fix the OL. If these are fixed, the Boncos should head to the playoffs.

I agree with you, we need to give Bates the people he needs for his defense. Hopefully, the DEs are settled and we can just focus on DTs and some LB help; that way we don't need too many people. I didn't see the game so I don't know how the offensive line performed; I do know that in passing situations, Cutler makes them look better than they are, with his movement as well as quick release. Cleveland, NE, Indy ... they're QBs are spoiled with excellent pass protection. I don't know if the OL needs some new players, or if they just need time.

[Stargazer]

Dont we have some ex Cleveland fella on IR that was getting double teamed last year before he got injured??You dont think that the fact no one tosses many balls in Champs side of the field points to worry/fear??


You must be referring to Ekuban. And no, I'm not a buyer on him making a big difference on this defense. And I wouldn't be surprised if he's gone next season.

Champ, he plays CB. Love the guy. But, he does play CB. And you can gameplan away from him. Thouge teams have been attacking him this year, and he's been unfortunately burned a lot. Sure some of it has to do with the front 7, but he's just been flat out burned a lot this year. He is having a bad year in regards to his standards. And to make it worse he's getting older. I would like to revisit this topic next year to see if he "lost the step".

[KCL]

I wasn't fooled by the great #'s against the Chiefs. Sure, the optimism was higher. But, look at who we played. The Chiefs are a trainwreck themselves.
Exactly and that is what this post I made is about.

http://broncosforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=59443&postcount=397

[Stargazer]

I didn't see the game so I don't know how the offensive line performed; I do know that in passing situations, Cutler makes them look better than they are, with his movement as well as quick release. Cleveland, NE, Indy ... they're QBs are spoiled with excellent pass protection. I don't know if the OL needs some new players, or if they just need time.

New players. I'm not buying the more time scenario. Lepsis just makes you shake your head. He's been bad this season. If there's a DE who is good, he's going to own Lepsis. Lepsis will get another chance next year, and he should hopefully improve because of the 2nd microfracture surgery. But, if he doesn't he is as good as gone. Pears?:tsk: The interior?:tsk: With Pears and the interior, I hope it's more time. But, it's just not working out that way.

Cutler had horrible protection tonight when he passed the football. Just horrible.

[Watchthemiddle]

[/FONT]
Exactly and that is what this post I made is about.

http://broncosforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=59443&postcount=397

:laugh:

Speaking of my post about winning against someone that matters...also thanks for agreeing with me KC.

WHo would have ever thought that the Broncos and the Chiefs would BOTH have the seasons they have had. :confused:

[omac]

You must be referring to Ekuban. And no, I'm not a buyer on him making a big difference on this defense. And I wouldn't be surprised if he's gone next season.

Champ, he plays CB. Love the guy. But, he does play CB. And you can gameplan away from him. Thouge teams have been attacking him this year, and he's been unfortunately burned a lot. Sure some of it has to do with the front 7, but he's just been flat out burned a lot this year. He is having a bad year in regards to his standards. And to make it worse he's getting older. I would like to revisit this topic next year to see if he "lost the step".

I'm not sure if Champ has lost a step, or if it's because of the injury and he's not fully recovered. Either way, he's doing way too much, trying to help out against the run, and having very little help against the pass. That's partly because of the 8 in the box gambling defense.

[silkamilkamonico]

I'm not sure if Champ has lost a step, or if it's because of the injury and he's not fully recovered.

The injury has a lot to do with it surely. It's just a replay of 3 seasons ago when he struggled with his hamstring.

A CB isn't going to be as effective as he can be if he doesn;t have 2 healthy legs to run on.

It's that simple.

[Hawgdriver]

It's like putting together pieces of puzzles that don't go together. Real tough.

That yours? If so, that's good stuff.

[Stargazer]

[/FONT]
Exactly and that is what this post I made is about.

http://broncosforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=59443&postcount=397

I hate to say this, though this does not benefit the Broncos and I'm sure you know this already, Carl needs to go. I mean just kicked to the curb and go. No, really he needs to be shipped via federal express to China with no insurance. Get him the hell out of KC and your team has the chance of becoming something one day. Though of'course I hope he stays in KC for a LONG TIME.:laugh:

[Requiem / The Dagda]

That your's? If so, that's good stuff.

Yeah, I thought I'd try and be cool with some crazy words. . . but honestly. . . that's what it feels like.

[KCL]

:laugh:

Speaking of my post about winning against someone that matters...also thanks for agreeing with me KC.

WHo would have ever thought that the Broncos and the Chiefs would BOTH have the seasons they have had. :confused:

well I couldn't disagree..thats for sure.I was thinking that yes you blew the
Chiefs away but its not like no other team hasn't...:tsk:

Yea KC and Denver both need lots of changes....I mean both teams lost to
the Raiders....THE RAIDERS...:rolleyes:

[Stargazer]

The injury has a lot to do with it surely. It's just a replay of 3 seasons ago when he struggled with his hamstring.

A CB isn't going to be as effective as he can be if he doesn;t have 2 healthy legs to run on.

It's that simple.

He had a better season that year with the bum hamstring then he is having now. Not super great, or great. But, he did all right that season. He was younger then. Unfortunately, nowadays age does enter the equation and the possibility of losing a step when it comes to CB's.

[KCL]

I hate to say this, though this does not benefit the Broncos and I'm sure you know this already, Carl needs to go. I mean just kicked to the curb and go. No, really he needs to be shipped via federal express to China with no insurance. Get him the hell out of KC and your team has the chance of becoming something one day. Though of'course I hope he stays in KC for a LONG TIME.:laugh:

Your not telling me anything I don't know!;)

[silkamilkamonico]

He had a better season that year with the bum hamstring then he is having now. Not super great, or great. But, he did all right that season. He was younger then. Unfortunately, nowadays age does enter the equation and the possibility of losing a step when it comes to CB's.

No he didn't.

He already has as many tackles, as many interceptions, and as many PD's as he did that year, and he still has 3 games to go.

Surely he hasn't been beat for TD's this year as much as he was in 2004. The dudes playing hurt and still playing well for an NFL corner, and he's playing better than 2004.

[Stargazer]

Your not telling me anything I don't know!;)

Nothing personal, I hope he's there another decade.:cool:

[KCL]

Nothing personal, I hope he's there another decade.:cool:

He probably will be...:mad:

[omac]

well I couldn't disagree..thats for sure.I was thinking that yes you blew the
Chiefs away but its not like no other team hasn't...:tsk:

Yea KC and Denver both need lots of changes....I mean both teams lost to
the Raiders....THE RAIDERS...:rolleyes:

It could be much worse ... I mean, we could be Miami or, even ... Atlanta ... :D

Atlanta's gone through way too much hurting this year.

[Stargazer]

No he didn't.

He already has as many tackles, as many interceptions, and as many PD's as he did that year, and he still has 3 games to go.

Surely he hasn't been beat for TD's this year as much as he was in 2004. The dudes playing hurt and still playing well for an NFL corner, and he's playing better than 2004.

It's not the stats. Just from a game watching perspective. He's just not the same guy this year. Yes, he's banged up. But, just watching him play he's just not the same guy.

Cornerbacks will change just like that on you. Like I said, I want to see him next year to see if he did "lose that step" or was it because he was banged up this season. The Champ this season just doesn't look like the Champ in the past.

[silkamilkamonico]

It's not the stats. Just from a game watching perspective. He's just not the same guy this year. Yes, he's banged up. But, just watching him play he's just not the same guy.

Cornerbacks will change just like that on you. Like I said, I want to see him next year to see if he did "lose that step" or was it because he was banged up this season. The Champ this season just doesn't look like the Champ in the past.

O think it's the position he plays.

Like what was stated, Denver has the Pro Bowl secondary, and the horrid front 7. Houston has the horrid secondary, and the stud front 7. Which defense looked far more effective?

Bailey is great, but unfortunately he plays a position that's impacted by the play of another. If the front 7 sucks, he's goona struggle. It's been the flow of his play ever since he came to Denver.

[KCL]

It could be much worse ... I mean, we could be Miami or, even ... Atlanta ... :D

Atlanta's gone through way too much hurting this year.

KC might as well be Miami...:laugh:

[BroncoAV06]

One thing to remember is time. Drafting young talent and infuseing it in much needed places will be nice but again will just have to watchthe growing process with those players. Can not hope that another draft class will turn us around, right track maybe but not jump to another level.

Thought that way with this draft class on d-line some. It will depend on if the young players now take there game to the next level and like mentioned before we get some leadership.

On paper this team looked real good before the season, easy to see why people had high hopes and yes we expect to win. I agree that this is a reality check for fans, I thought last season was frustrating.

Was really hoping for a strong finish to the season, still could happen but like many SD and a Vikings team fighting for a playoff spot just is not nice to look forward to. See what happens with all the days off, came out good after the bye against the Steelers but has this team lost all confidence after this game?

[ChampWJ]

It could be much worse ... I mean, we could be Miami or, even ... Atlanta ... :D

Atlanta's gone through way too much hurting this year.

I'm a Falcons fan too, and this has been a tough year for both of my teams. Still, I'm really bothered by the fact that the Broncos only sit 2.5 games higher than Atlanta in the standings. That's really stunning considering the gap in the talent levels of each franchise.

[omac]

KC might as well be Miami...:laugh:

Nah, Edwards has a plan .... not sure if it's the right plan :laugh: ... but seriously, Cameron doesn't look like he knows how to handle an NFL team. At the very least, Edwards has that leadership. Your defense has to jump to an elite level, though, in order to realize his plan. KC lost a ton of offense from Vermeil to Edwards, but they have gotten better at defense.

Another franchise that seems to have wasted another 3 years rebuilding for nothing is SF; they should've been finally seeing results this season, but they look as bad or even worse than the previous seasons. If they fire Nolan, they'll start rebuilding from scratch again.

[Stargazer]

O think it's the position he plays.

Like what was stated, Denver has the Pro Bowl secondary, and the horrid front 7. Houston has the horrid secondary, and the stud front 7. Which defense looked far more effective?

Bailey is great, but unfortunately he plays a position that's impacted by the play of another. If the front 7 sucks, he's goona struggle. It's been the flow of his play ever since he came to Denver.

I will be VERY interested to watch his performance next year.

[KCL]

Nah, Edwards has a plan .... not sure if it's the right plan :laugh: ... but seriously, Cameron doesn't look like he knows how to handle an NFL team. At the very least, Edwards has that leadership. Your defense has to jump to an elite level, though, in order to realize his plan. KC lost a ton of offense from Vermeil to Edwards, but they have gotten better at defense.

Another franchise that seems to have wasted another 3 years rebuilding for nothing is SF; they should've been finally seeing results this season, but they look as bad or even worse than the previous seasons. If they fire Nolan, they'll start rebuilding from scratch again.

yes he has a plan...You play to win the game...:rolleyes:

[Lonestar]

We can only hope Merriman stays on the sideline for the BRONCOS game because I'm very negative about the Chargers and Vikings games.

as bad as this team can be, they won't need merriman..

Time to play the scrubs so we don't get Jay killed..

[omac]

yes he has a plan...You play to win the game...:rolleyes:

I think his plan is a little long term. He's too nice though; he was saying he'd understand if the fans didn't go to their final homegame this season. Fire them up! :cheers:

[Lonestar]

You must be referring to Ekuban. And no, I'm not a buyer on him making a big difference on this defense. And I wouldn't be surprised if he's gone next season.

Champ, he plays CB. Love the guy. But, he does play CB. And you can gameplan away from him. Thouge teams have been attacking him this year, and he's been unfortunately burned a lot. Sure some of it has to do with the front 7, but he's just been flat out burned a lot this year. He is having a bad year in regards to his standards. And to make it worse he's getting older. I would like to revisit this topic next year to see if he "lost the step".

In most cases where he has been burned he has been focused on shutting down the run FIRST and allowing the WR get past him.

Since the DL can't stop a runner someone has to..

[pnbronco]

The injury has a lot to do with it surely. It's just a replay of 3 seasons ago when he struggled with his hamstring.

A CB isn't going to be as effective as he can be if he doesn;t have 2 healthy legs to run on.

It's that simple.

Champ is hurt and has not had the time he needs to heal. He offered to go in on Special Teams in Chicago. Also he is still hurting from Darrent. Darrent was like a kid brother to him. Can any of us imagine what last years players are really feeling? These guys sat in meeting together, went over plays together, walked on the field together, ate meals together. Every part of their job reminds them of the friend they lost. I know that Champ is a professional but he is also a person. I talked to Darrent a few times after the games and the kid just got under your skin. So when the season started I really thought that they would end up about 8-8 because of the 2 deaths. So you throw in all the injuries to key players and they have a bad season. So time to put on my orange colored glasses for next year and hope that no else gets hurt this year.

[Tned]

Oh well, now I only can root for my office pool and for Dallas for my best friend now.

About the same here. Office pool (although I picked the Broncos, so gave up a point to the field) and Dallas for nearly everyone at work who roots for Dallas.

[KCL]

I think his plan is a little long term. He's too nice though; he was saying he'd understand if the fans didn't go to their final homegame this season. Fire them up! :cheers:

It must be like the 5 yr plan that Peterson had almost 20 yrs ago. :doh:

[Mike]

It must be like the 5 yr plan that Peterson had almost 20 yrs ago. :doh:

I honestly don't know how Hunt can put up with Peterson. Loyalty is all well and good...but there is such a things as too much loyalty. A change has to be made.

[Mike]

So, once again, I felt that the team was hurt by the playcalling. This has been a trend this year.

Some things that I noticed...

- Coaches once again seemed to be unprepared...the game plan just stunk. Or maybe Houston just seemed really well prepared and Denver suffered by comparison?

- When will the coaches learn that our o-line is not good enough to allow us to run spread formation?

- I know Champ is having an off year...but why do we insist on not putting him on the other teams #1 WR?

- Graham proved his worth last night. I still don't think he is worth the amount we paid him. But there is no doubt that the running game and pass blocking suffered without him.

- Stokely was missed. Hard to imagine that Stokely has been more of a playmaker this year than Walker.

- Sign Marshall to an extension ASAP. It's gotta be a priority. The kid is a playmaker.

- Why did they abandon Young so fast? Even his poor runs were no worst than Henry's. Henry just does nothing for me. Bleh.

- Defense, oh defense. When will you learn to tackle? Fundamentals.

- I think that DJ Williams has come a long way this year.

I am sure that there is more...I just can't remember it all.

[Nomad]

So, once again, I felt that the team was hurt by the playcalling. This has been a trend this year.

Some things that I noticed...

- Coaches once again seemed to be unprepared...the game plan just stunk. Or maybe Houston just seemed really well prepared and Denver suffered by comparison?

- When will the coaches learn that our o-line is not good enough to allow us to run spread formation?

- I know Champ is having an off year...but why do we insist on not putting him on the other teams #1 WR?

- Graham proved his worth last night. I still don't think he is worth the amount we paid him. But there is no doubt that the running game and pass blocking suffered without him.

- Stokely was missed. Hard to imagine that Stokely has been more of a playmaker this year than Walker.

- Sign Marshall to an extension ASAP. It's gotta be a priority. The kid is a playmaker.

- Why did they abandon Young so fast? Even his poor runs were no worst than Henry's. Henry just does nothing for me. Bleh.

- Defense, oh defense. When will you learn to tackle? Fundamentals.

- I think that DJ Williams has come a long way this year.

I am sure that there is more...I just can't remember it all.

Great analysis! I'm not a big fan of Henry and I didn't support him coming to the BRONCOS. Shanahan has some house cleaning to do in the offseason with players and coaches. I know there is always money involved but I'm sure he can figure it out being the coach and whatever his other title is.

[ChampWJ]

So, once again, I felt that the team was hurt by the playcalling. This has been a trend this year.

Some things that I noticed...

- Coaches once again seemed to be unprepared...the game plan just stunk. Or maybe Houston just seemed really well prepared and Denver suffered by comparison?

- When will the coaches learn that our o-line is not good enough to allow us to run spread formation?

- I know Champ is having an off year...but why do we insist on not putting him on the other teams #1 WR?

- Graham proved his worth last night. I still don't think he is worth the amount we paid him. But there is no doubt that the running game and pass blocking suffered without him.

- Stokely was missed. Hard to imagine that Stokely has been more of a playmaker this year than Walker.

- Sign Marshall to an extension ASAP. It's gotta be a priority. The kid is a playmaker.

- Why did they abandon Young so fast? Even his poor runs were no worst than Henry's. Henry just does nothing for me. Bleh.

- Defense, oh defense. When will you learn to tackle? Fundamentals.

- I think that DJ Williams has come a long way this year.

I am sure that there is more...I just can't remember it all.

In defense of Henry and Walker, both had serious injuries that derailed their seasons. Henry is still suffering from a partially torn PCL, and Walker has been having knee issues all season and probably should have been shut down for a more intensive surgery/rehab. Both players are admittedly not close to 100% and neither one thinks they will be until next season. I think Walker is used right now more as a decoy.

[Medford Bronco]

well I couldn't disagree..thats for sure.I was thinking that yes you blew the
Chiefs away but its not like no other team hasn't...:tsk:

Yea KC and Denver both need lots of changes....I mean both teams lost to
the Raiders....THE RAIDERS...:rolleyes:

KCL sorry as well as we both suck the Bronx and Chiefs

I think Herm needs to go as well. IMO
I would bring back Marty before Hermie that is for sure

Mr Clock Managment is truely clueless IMO

Croyle might be decent next season but the o line is not the same
since the retirement of Shields and Roaf, two of the best when in their prime.

hey Oak is not that bad ;)

we could be the Fins, 49ers, or even J E T S for suckiness.

so Den/KC will get better as their Qbs mature.

good luck on Sunday :salute:

[silkamilkamonico]

Henry is still suffering from a partially torn PCL, and Walker has been having knee issues all season and probably should have been shut down for a more intensive surgery/rehab. Both players are admittedly not close to 100% and neither one thinks they will be until next season. I think Walker is used right now more as a decoy.

I'm not a big Henry fan, but he does have the same injury that has sidelined Reggie Bush for the rest of the season.

[KCL]

I honestly don't know how Hunt can put up with Peterson. Loyalty is all well and good...but there is such a things as too much loyalty. A change has to be made.

Chiefs fans have been wondering the same thing for years.I guess the Hunt
bros who have taken over since Lamar passed away seem to be satisfied
with filling the stadium.That seems to be their only concern...IMO.

Of course Lamar Hunt was pretty partial to Carl too and has kept him
with the Chiefs for way too long.

[KCL]

KCL sorry as well as we both suck the Bronx and Chiefs

I think Herm needs to go as well. IMO
I would bring back Marty before Hermie that is for sure

Mr Clock Managment is truely clueless IMO

Croyle might be decent next season but the o line is not the same
since the retirement of Shields and Roaf, two of the best when in their prime.

hey Oak is not that bad ;)

we could be the Fins, 49ers, or even J E T S for suckiness.

so Den/KC will get better as their Qbs mature.

good luck on Sunday :salute:

Thanks Med...the Chiefs season was lost before it even began.I have always
said and thought that the Chiefs should of given LJ his walking papers and spent the money on a line.Pay him all that money and now look at him.

I really wish Priest would of worked out : (

The team needs a MAJOR overhaul.New line or a better one and I think
Croyle could develope into a good QB.

Our secondary sucks! Law is way past his prime and is slow and cannot
keep up with the younger receivers.Replace him and Surtain.

Get a new OC....Solari calls the worst plays.:mad: I don't see Herm
leaving anytime soon.

[topscribe]

So, once again, I felt that the team was hurt by the playcalling. This has been a trend this year.

Some things that I noticed...

- Coaches once again seemed to be unprepared...the game plan just stunk. Or maybe Houston just seemed really well prepared and Denver suffered by comparison?

On both sides of the ball, the Broncos have 1st and 2nd year players who have never played together.
We should have realized, and should still realize, they were going to be inconsistent.

- When will the coaches learn that our o-line is not good enough to allow us to run spread formation?

You are right. They aren't good enough . . . yet. But nothing worked last night.

- I know Champ is having an off year...but why do we insist on not putting him on the other teams #1 WR?

I fully believe Champ's "off year" is borne of a quadriceps injury that will not heal fully until he's off it for a few months.
But he is still better than anyone else the Broncos have, so you are right.

- Graham proved his worth last night. I still don't think he is worth the amount we paid him. But there is no doubt that the running game and pass blocking suffered without him.

When the game is planned largely around his blocking and he goes down, so much for the game plan.
The difference this week vs. Mario, as opposed to last week vs. Jared Allen, also showed Graham's worth.

- Stokely was missed. Hard to imagine that Stokely has been more of a playmaker this year than Walker.

Walker is suffering much from the same problem as Champ: He has to heal.
We won't see the real Javon until next year. And now that may be the case with Stokes.

- Sign Marshall to an extension ASAP. It's gotta be a priority. The kid is a playmaker.

Marshall is the most dominant, explosive receiver I have seen on the Broncos since Lionel Taylor.

- Why did they abandon Young so fast? Even his poor runs were no worst than Henry's. Henry just does nothing for me. Bleh.

If anyone is fixing to abandon Young over yesterday, their elevator may not be going all the way to the top.

- Defense, oh defense. When will you learn to tackle? Fundamentals.

We may see some more players ushered out the door after this year. Both Lynch and Champ seemed to imply lack of effort.

- I think that DJ Williams has come a long way this year.

D.J. will be a star at the position beginning next year, IMO.

I am sure that there is more...I just can't remember it all.
-

This was such a good post, I had to leave some comments (in red, of course). :beer:

-----

[rcsodak]

It's not the stats. Just from a game watching perspective. He's just not the same guy this year. Yes, he's banged up. But, just watching him play he's just not the same guy.

Cornerbacks will change just like that on you. Like I said, I want to see him next year to see if he did "lose that step" or was it because he was banged up this season. The Champ this season just doesn't look like the Champ in the past.
He hasn't lost a step, good grief!

He's being told to play press coverage, and he has ALWAYS done better being off the wr and reading the qb.

You people and "losing steps".... :tsk:

[Kapaibro]

I don't feel fooled.

I felt like last week we saw what our team will truely be capable of.

[rcsodak]

I honestly don't know how Hunt can put up with Peterson. Loyalty is all well and good...but there is such a things as too much loyalty. A change has to be made.

Little hunt has only been running the team since just recently, so not sure how "loyalty" can be brought into the picture.

[rcsodak]

... as we both suck the Bronx and Chiefs


um, speak for yourself......:confused:

[Requiem / The Dagda]

He hasn't lost a step, good grief!

He's being told to play press coverage, and he has ALWAYS done better being off the wr and reading the qb.

You people and "losing steps".... :tsk:

Actually, Champ has been playing off the receivers (as well as Bly) and have been getting caught looking in the backfield more than Champ and Bly are suffering because they're pressing up close and playing man to man. Green Bay has aggressive corners that can do that, Denver doesn't have that aggressive physical mentality, so you see a lot of zone coverage being done by the Denver defense. They're not getting beat deep, they're getting beat on the short, middle and underneath patterns because of a tremendous amount of zone coverage. When they get beat deep, it's because they're doing there little "peek-a-boo" game instead of JAMMING the receivers at the line which is required when you're having a Cover 2 over the top and you're supposed to playing your man.

It all comes down to execution, and so far these players on defense have sucked this year.

I'm not worried about those guys, because if they had a decent amount of pressure - they'd be doing much better, but they need to stop taking as many gambles and just do what the scheme asks of them instead of playing pick 'em up football out there.

[topscribe]

Actually, Champ has been playing off the receivers (as well as Bly) and have been getting caught looking in the backfield more than Champ and Bly are suffering because they're pressing up close and playing man to man. Green Bay has aggressive corners that can do that, Denver doesn't have that aggressive physical mentality, so you see a lot of zone coverage being done by the Denver defense. They're not getting beat deep, they're getting beat on the short, middle and underneath patterns because of a tremendous amount of zone coverage. When they get beat deep, it's because they're doing there little "peek-a-boo" game instead of JAMMING the receivers at the line which is required when you're having a Cover 2 over the top and you're supposed to playing your man.

It all comes down to execution, and so far these players on defense have sucked this year.

I'm not worried about those guys, because if they had a decent amount of pressure - they'd be doing much better, but they need to stop taking as many gambles and just do what the scheme asks of them instead of playing pick 'em up football out there.

You're kidding, of course. Champ made his living, and achieved first team
All-Pro, in press coverage. As I said, Champ is likely playing with that
quadriceps injury.

I wonder just how many people around here have actually played football.
If you have an injury, you don't play as well. Is it that hard to imagine?
Javon has an injury. Henry has an injury. And I'd bet the farm that Champ is
playing through the injury in question.

They're not going to be as good as usual. :confused:

-----

[rcsodak]

I watched champ last night and he pressed ALOT!!!!

And even though he's "lost a step" as some suggest, he was still able to play the peekaboo, and lose the receiver, like in a certain 20+yd play.

He's acknowledged he's a better corner playing off the wr. That can't be disputed. It also can't be disputed that bates likes his corners pressing most of the time.

Playing him in a weak position, along with a dline that puts NO pressure on the qb is just ASKING for trouble.

[KCL]

Little hunt has only been running the team since just recently, so not sure how "loyalty" can be brought into the picture.

Plenty...he learned from his dad.See my earlier post.

[Lonestar]

You're kidding, of course. Champ made his living, and achieved first team
All-Pro, in press coverage. As I said, Champ is likely playing with that
quadriceps injury.

I wonder just how many people around here have actually played football.
If you have an injury, you don't play as well. Is it that hard to imagine?
Javon has an injury. Henry has an injury. And I'd bet the farm that Champ is
playing through the injury in question.

They're not going to be as good as usual. :confused:

-----

Add to the fact they have no confidence in the DL actually doing their job against the run.
There was one play in particular that illustrated it.

Champ was laying off about 5 yards he was looking back at the QB to see if it was run and the receiver ran by him and caught one for a modest gain before Champ recovered. There was deep coverage on the play by the safety. But you could read Champ head motion watching the WR go to his left while he looked back into the backfield it was a split second but enough to get separation.

WHY because Champ has to play RUN first. Period or they run all over us..

[topscribe]

Add to the fact they have no confidence in the DL actually doing their job against the run.
There was one play in particular that illustrated it.

Champ was laying off about 5 yards he was looking back at the QB to see if it was run and the receiver ran by him and caught one for a modest gain before Champ recovered. There was deep coverage on the play by the safety. But you could read Champ head motion watching the WR go to his left while he looked back into the backfield it was a split second but enough to get separation.

WHY because Champ has to play RUN first. Period or they run all over us..

Very good point.

-----

[Requiem / The Dagda]

You're kidding, of course. Champ made his living, and achieved first team All-Pro, in press coverage. As I said, Champ is likely playing with that quadriceps injury.

No, I'm not kidding.


I wonder just how many people around here have actually played football.
If you have an injury, you don't play as well. Is it that hard to imagine?
Javon has an injury. Henry has an injury. And I'd bet the farm that Champ is
playing through the injury in question.

Classic, the "have you ever played football" toss again? This has nothing to do with the injuries. It should be acknowledged that a player will perform worse when having injuries, but that's not the whole point about adjusting their own play that deviates from the scheme and has cost us on more than one occasion.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

WHY because Champ has to play RUN first. Period or they run all over us..

Well, that's what happens when you're switching into a Cover 2 system. Cornerbacks are supposed to play the run well. Minnesota is a testament to that, but then again, they have built their defensive line (ends are suspect) and it helps a ton.

[topscribe]

No, I'm not kidding.



Classic, the "have you ever played football" toss again? This has nothing to do with the injuries. It should be acknowledged that a player will perform worse when having injuries, but that's not the whole point about adjusting their own play that deviates from the scheme and has cost us on more than one occasion.

I'm just going by what is apparent.

Anyway, I think JR made the most cogent point in the thread. CBs are having
to overplay the run and cover WRs, too. When the front seven gets to the
point where they can be halfway decent in stopping the run, I think we'll
be amazed at how much our secondary has improved.

-----

[silkamilkamonico]

I'm just going by what is apparent.

Anyway, I think JR made the most cogent point in the thread. CBs are having
to overplay the run and cover WRs, too. When the front seven gets to the
point where they can be halfway decent in stopping the run, I think we'll
be amazed at how much our secondary has improved.

-----

I agree.

If that's not the case, then our WR's couldn't get much separation on Houston's backup secondary. They aren't playing the run, they're playing their defender.