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View Full Version : Are any of these D-Cordinators over the last few years any better than Greg Robinson?



sneakers
12-12-2007, 01:30 AM
I loved watching Greg Robinson's defenses. I if he was still D-Cordinator today, he would have a field day with his blitzes with our current personnel. Or am I crazy?

Stargazer
12-12-2007, 01:49 AM
he would have a field day with his blitzes

That is never a sign of a great defensive coach. I'm not saying do no iincorporate them, but damn that is all he ever did. He's not here, and I'm glad he's gone. I'm not one of the guys willing to dump Jim Bates after only 1 season. Give this man the personnel. The defense rebuilding stage takes more than 1 offseason. I have full trust in Jim Bates. Players play for him and they love him. Right now, the personnel isn't there yet.

Lonestar
12-12-2007, 04:12 AM
I loved watching Greg Robinson's defenses. I if he was still D-Cordinator today, he would have a field day with his blitzes with our current personnel. Or am I crazy?

Yes, thanks for asking..

To have to blitz is a sign of failure in your defense.

Blitzing occasionally is good to keep the offense honest and on their toes..

If you like constant blitzing then you should follow a 3-4 team..

Although it is not blitzing there it is how it is designed..

sneakers
12-12-2007, 06:24 AM
Blitzing causes turnovers, because it doesn't allow the QB to have much time to make a decision....it doesn't mean your defense is a failure...it is a tool you use to enhance your defense. Otherwise you can have the ray rhodes approach and drop 8 defenders into coverage and let Rich Gannon have 8 seconds to look around the field and complete 20 straight passes.

Blitzing is a tool, not a sign that your defense has failed.

omac
12-12-2007, 06:30 AM
Blitzing causes turnovers, because it doesn't allow the QB to have much time to make a decision....it doesn't mean your defense is a failure...it is a tool you use to enhance your defense. Otherwise you can have the ray rhodes approach and drop 8 defenders into coverage and let Rich Gannon have 8 seconds to look around the field and complete 20 straight passes.

Blitzing is a tool, not a sign that your defense has failed.

True, but when Jrwiz says needing to blitz is a failure on your defense, I think he means your defense has to be able to create pressure without having to blitz; if your defense can't do that without blitzing, than the base defense isn't very good.

Our pass defense has actually gotten better at pressuring the quarterback without having to blitz; our problem is that our run defense needs 8 in the box to be successful.

gobroncsnv
12-12-2007, 08:12 AM
I'm trying to figure out what would be so wrong with having a good enough front four that blitzing is a luxury instead of necessity... Robinson had some decent players (Pryce, Smith, Williams, Traylor) that could make almost ANY DC look good. Look how his defenses fell apart when there was a drop-off in personnel. Now we just have to turn that around and say, "what would a Bates D look like if he had the players he needed?"
Or Coyer, for that matter. But we need to quit changing our scheme every couple of years because we don't have good enough personnel. It's time to get the right players in place and try that.

silkamilkamonico
12-12-2007, 12:39 PM
Blitzing causes turnovers, because it doesn't allow the QB to have much time to make a decision....it doesn't mean your defense is a failure...it is a tool you use to enhance your defense. Otherwise you can have the ray rhodes approach and drop 8 defenders into coverage and let Rich Gannon have 8 seconds to look around the field and complete 20 straight passes.

Blitzing is a tool, not a sign that your defense has failed.

There are only a couple defensive schemes in the NFL that uses blitzes to attack. Those schemes will get blown out by a good QB. . Other systems have to resort to blitzing because they can't get enough pressure with their rushing 4.

Any good QB will beat a good blitz, and it's something that is only effective when used in certain situations.

If you ask any of the great QB's in the NFL, they want the defense to blitz.

omac
12-12-2007, 01:52 PM
There are only a couple defensive schemes in the NFL that uses blitzes to attack. Those schemes will get blown out by a good QB. . Other systems have to resort to blitzing because they can't get enough pressure with their rushing 4.

Any good QB will beat a good blitz, and it's something that is only effective when used in certain situations.

If you ask any of the great QB's in the NFL, they want the defense to blitz.

Yeah, in one of those NFL films, Parcells was addressing his relatively inexperienced Cowboys team, saying when he gets through with them, they'll want their opponents to blitz.

Skinny
12-12-2007, 06:21 PM
I loved watching Greg Robinson's defenses. I if he was still D-Cordinator today, he would have a field day with his blitzes with our current personnel. Or am I crazy?The great thing about Robinson's Defenses, he did an exceptional job at disguising his blitzes. The job he did against 3-time MVP Brett Favre, in his prime, in S.B. XXXII was a thing of beauty.

**** LeBeau, who invented the 'zone blitz', is exceptional at disguising his blitzes too.

LoyalSoldier
12-12-2007, 07:10 PM
People forget that we had problems against the run at the end of last year too. We gave up games of 105, 157, 90, 103, 129, and 153 to single runners. That isn't even counting backups!

gobroncsnv
12-12-2007, 07:31 PM
Wasn't me that forgot. Nor was it me who thought we had a decent dline last year. And Wilson was certainly not at his best. And for what it's worth, I REALLY hope we get Bates the Dline types that he needs, but that is more than we did for Coyer. Or Robinson, towards the end, for that matter

Lonestar
12-12-2007, 09:48 PM
I'm trying to figure out what would be so wrong with having a good enough front four that blitzing is a luxury instead of necessity... Robinson had some decent players (Pryce, Smith, Williams, Traylor) that could make almost ANY DC look good. Look how his defenses fell apart when there was a drop-off in personnel. Now we just have to turn that around and say, "what would a Bates D look like if he had the players he needed?"
Or Coyer, for that matter. But we need to quit changing our scheme every couple of years because we don't have good enough personnel. It's time to get the right players in place and try that.

See you have hit the nail on the head, just look at the good defenses and they do not have to have smoke and mirrors to put pressure on the QB..

Sure throwing in a blitz every so often spices it up and keeps the offense honest but having to do it almost every down like last year is a complete failure of the front four..

when you have to dedicate more the the DL to control the LOS then the LB are not able to do there job same goes for any of the DB's

The positions are call BACKERS for a reason it is not because they are constantly on the LINE.

Lonestar
12-12-2007, 09:50 PM
There are only a couple defensive schemes in the NFL that uses blitzes to attack. Those schemes will get blown out by a good QB. . Other systems have to resort to blitzing because they can't get enough pressure with their rushing 4.

Any good QB will beat a good blitz, and it's something that is only effective when used in certain situations.

If you ask any of the great QB's in the NFL, they want the defense to blitz.


Actually it takes coordination between the OLINE, RB to pickup the blitz and the QB and receivers to adjust to it. Then any good QB can beat it like e rented mule..

Your correct as it leaves someone open all the time.

Lonestar
12-12-2007, 09:53 PM
Wasn't me that forgot. Nor was it me who thought we had a decent dline last year. And Wilson was certainly not at his best. And for what it's worth, I REALLY hope we get Bates the Dline types that he needs, but that is more than we did for Coyer. Or Robinson, towards the end, for that matter


neither wanted to push it hard enough with mikey to get the players they needed..

I suspect that before Bates took the job it was understood that he would get toys to play with this year..

gobroncsnv
12-12-2007, 10:58 PM
Could be that Bates in fact made that a pre-requisite, but seems like that would be a given to ANYONE taking the job. Hard to believe, with the great drafting of LB's, Oline, and RB's that Shanny did even in those years of drought in the draft, that he couldn't get Dlinemen (or WR's for that matter) worth a crap. Seems like the corner is turning, especially the past few years.

But as a head coach and quasi-GM, this was one of his biggest weaknesses, oversights, call it what you will. I don't think he's going to try to skimp here again. We've lost way too many games because of this problem.

If it takes Bates requiring this so be it, as long as it happens. It's so frustating watching a team with a great dline, or our team last week (granted, it was the Chiefs)... and not be able to see this for US week in and week out. Consistency here brings rings and bling things.

sneakers
12-13-2007, 01:10 AM
Actually it takes coordination between the OLINE, RB to pickup the blitz and the QB and receivers to adjust to it. Then any good QB can beat it like e rented mule..

Your correct as it leaves someone open all the time.

It leaves someone open all time, but will the QB have enough time to recognize the reciever, stop, and step into the throw and get a good pass before someone his hitting him?

Pressure on a Great QB can make him look rather foolish, like someone mentioned before - Brett Favre in superbowl XXXII.

omac
12-13-2007, 01:55 AM
It leaves someone open all time, but will the QB have enough time to recognize the reciever, stop, and step into the throw and get a good pass before someone his hitting him?

Pressure on a Great QB can make him look rather foolish, like someone mentioned before - Brett Favre in superbowl XXXII.

Yeah, but very experienced QB's can recognize formations, so that when a blitz comes from a certain formation, he'll know what parts of the field are less defensed. A great and experienced QB like Manning will usually beat the blitz more times than the blitz will beat him.