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Denver Native (Carol)
09-29-2009, 10:36 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_13441333?source=rss

In this quarterback-crazed town, rare is it when an autumn Monday morning comes around and the man who lines up under center isn't either the hero or the villain.

But this year, there's Kyle Orton, who has happily been neither through three games, all Denver victories.

He's been good at times, but never outstanding. He has erred, but hasn't done anything to cause serious damage. Basically, Orton has excelled at managing the Broncos' offense. Just don't label him as a "game manager," coach Josh McDaniels said, at least not when it's meant as a negative term.

"We don't ever want to talk about our quarterbacks as game managers, but you want a quarterback to be efficient," McDaniels said.

Orton arrived in Denver in April with a reputation as being, basically, the anti-Jay Cutler — a guy with average arm strength who wouldn't necessarily do anything to win games for his team but wouldn't do anything to lose a game either.

Through three games this season, that has proved mostly true.

He has completed 55.7 percent of his passes, but he is one of only three starting quarterbacks, along with Aaron Rodgers of the Green Bay Packers and Mark Bulger of the St. Louis Rams, who have not thrown an interception. Cutler, meanwhile, has thrown five, tied for the most in the league with Carolina's Jake Delhomme and Detroit's Matthew Stafford.

"We always want the guy who can go out there and be aggressive, but I like to say, 'Do the next best thing,' " offensive coordinator Mike McCoy said. "We're going to call certain plays in a game that we hopefully get the certain coverage for, but when it's not there, he's got to do the next best thing and throw the ball to . . . where if we don't get the ball, (defenders) don't."

And with the Broncos' running game ranked No. 3, at 158.7 yards per game, and the defense allowing only 16 total points, there has been little pressure in the past two games on Orton to throw for Cutler-like numbers.

"Look, we'd like to have explosive plays and do that every week," McDaniels said. "Against Cleveland we had a few of those, and some weeks they're presented to you and some weeks they're not. We're not going into each week saying, 'We're only going to throw for 140 this week. Don't do anything negative.' We're going to try to attack the defense in any way that we can."

Orton on Sunday described his performance against the Raiders — 13-for-23, 157 yards and one touchdown — as "clean." He preferred to talk about how the offensive line handled Oakland's defensive front and how the Broncos' running backs ran for more than 200 yards.

"We got off to a good start. No turnovers again, and we made plays in the passing game when we needed to," Orton said. "That was kind of the formula we wanted to take into this week, and we executed it."

McDaniels said he saw plenty of things for Orton to correct, but none of them major. Considering how disastrous the preseason began for Orton — with four interceptions in two games — worrying about improving his footwork when he stands in the pocket isn't bad.

"There's a lot of things he's got to do, and he does a lot of them well," McDaniels said. "I've never been around a quarterback that's played a game where I went, 'Wow, that was a perfect game.' "

Game managers

McDaniels might not like it when you call his quarterback a game manager, but these other quarterbacks probably didn't mind the label.

Tom Brady: McDaniels' former quarterback in New England, a sixth-round draft pick, isn't the most physically gifted quarterback, but no one can debate his production: three Super Bowl titles, two Super Bowl MVP awards and four Pro Bowls.

Ben Roethlisberger: Perhaps his gutsy performance in the Super Bowl last winter has helped change his reputation, but Big Ben has benefited from playing on a team with a stellar defense.

Bart Starr: The Hall of Famer who quarterbacked Vince Lombardi's Packers completed 57.4 percent of his passes in a 16-year career and averaged fewer than 10 interceptions a season.

Trent Dilfer: He played in the NFL for 14 seasons and quarterbacked the Ravens to a Super Bowl title in 2000 despite throwing for only 1,502 yards.

Rich Gannon: He led the Raiders to the Super Bowl in 2002. He threw only 10 interceptions that season.

Northman
09-29-2009, 10:37 AM
Uh oh. There is the Jinx.

Shazam!
09-29-2009, 10:44 AM
If we made a Frankenstein QB and put Kyle Orton's brain in Jake Plummer's body, he'd have been the best QB in the League.

Orton hasn't been killing the Broncos, moving the offense and spreading the ball around. Can't ask for more. He's improved week to week and he'll get better especially with Marshall as time goes on.

Cannot complain thus far, espoecially if the Broncos split or win the next two. I think they will.

FanInAZ
09-29-2009, 10:46 AM
If we made a Frankenstein QB and put Kyle Orton's brain in Jake Plummer's body, he'd have been the best QB in the League.

That would make another Elway

Shazam!
09-29-2009, 11:06 AM
That would make another Elway

Plummer had nowhere near the arm strength Elway, even at 42.

claymore
09-29-2009, 11:09 AM
That would make another Elway

I think Trent Dilfer is a more accurate of a comparison.

Dortoh
09-29-2009, 11:15 AM
I think as long as he continues to only throw short passes over the middle this trend will continue.

silkamilkamonico
09-29-2009, 11:46 AM
I think as long as he continues to only throw short passes over the middle this trend will continue.

Unfortunately yes. Those plays are money only because of matchup problems that Denver exploits, but I still don't like Orton, and I tried. I tried giving him the benefit of the doubt but he leaves way too many plays out on the field, IMHO.

T.K.O.
09-29-2009, 11:52 AM
Unfortunately yes. Those plays are money only because of matchup problems that Denver exploits, but I still don't like Orton, and I tried. I tried giving him the benefit of the doubt but he leaves way too many plays out on the field, IMHO.

take a deep breath and repeat after me.....3 and 0.....3 and 0.....
we will get better and yes we will lose a game here and there but we will be a far cry from the 3-13 ,4-12 predictions many fans and "experts" pegged us at.....so its ok to enjoy the ride now!
the broncos are the best team in the afcw right now.....i dont mean the team with the best record,i mean the best TEAM !:salute:

Dortoh
09-29-2009, 11:54 AM
take a deep breath and repeat after me.....3 and 0.....3 and 0.....
we will get better and yes we will lose a game here and there but we will be a far cry from the 3-13 ,4-12 predictions many fans and "experts" pegged us at.....so its ok to enjoy the ride now!
the broncos are the best team in the afcw right now.....i dont mean the team with the best record,i mean the best TEAM !:salute:

You sir are correct but Orton still sucks IMHO of course

silkamilkamonico
09-29-2009, 11:55 AM
take a deep breath and repeat after me.....3 and 0.....3 and 0.....
we will get better and yes we will lose a game here and there but we will be a far cry from the 3-13 ,4-12 predictions many fans and "experts" pegged us at.....so its ok to enjoy the ride now!
the broncos are the best team in the afcw right now.....i dont mean the team with the best record,i mean the best TEAM !:salute:

We're 3-0?

We're 3-0 because we have a great team that's playing well together. I'm not hating on the guy, he's done a great job. I just hope he isn't the long term answer for QB in Denver, or our offense is always going to be limited to a certain degree, IMHO.

Denver Native (Carol)
09-29-2009, 12:05 PM
Unfortunately yes. Those plays are money only because of matchup problems that Denver exploits, but I still don't like Orton, and I tried. I tried giving him the benefit of the doubt but he leaves way too many plays out on the field, IMHO.

I don't think there has ever been a QB who has scored every time the offense was on the field - so I guess ALL QBs leave way too many plays out on the field.

silkamilkamonico
09-29-2009, 01:23 PM
I don't think there has ever been a QB who has scored every time the offense was on the field - so I guess ALL QBs leave way too many plays out on the field.

A good majority of those QB's make plays throughout the course of the game as well. Orton doesn't. The system makes plays for him. Nothing wrong with that, but I'd like a QB that can be the focal point of our team image, much in the sense of guys like Brees, Manning, Brady, Rivers, McNabb, Roethlesberger, and Warner.

Orton simply isn't that guy, IMO. Just personal preference.

TXBRONC
09-29-2009, 02:31 PM
I don't think there has ever been a QB who has scored every time the offense was on the field - so I guess ALL QBs leave way too many plays out on the field.

It isn't about scoring every time the offense is on the field. It's what's happening in the red zone. If Denver is going beat the better teams in the League they have to make sure the score touchdowns in the red zone. As I have mentioned before the Colts beat the Dolphins while only having the ball for a total of 15 minutes.

WARHORSE
09-29-2009, 02:38 PM
Im wondering what this offense would look like in Simms hands.................Brandstaters?


Would our record be the same?


I hope those guys are getting reps too, just in case.

Bronco Warrior
09-29-2009, 02:45 PM
With the exception of the "Deflection" highlight which in reality was grossly underthrown ball to an open Marshall and a headup play by St. Stokely, Orton hasn't made any highlight reels or got us on plays/ or game of the week! Has he?

TXBRONC
09-29-2009, 02:49 PM
Im wondering what this offense would look like in Simms hands.................Brandstaters?


Would our record be the same?


I hope those guys are getting reps too, just in case.

I would bet Brandstater isn't getting any rep in practice and I'll bet Simms only getting a few at best. There just isn't enough time each week to give the back ups practice snaps.

Bronco Warrior
09-29-2009, 03:01 PM
One of them is running the Scout team most likely Brandstater. The kid showed he could excell and improve with very little rep time. Simms is getting maybe a third of the first team reps...McD isn't stupid.

TXBRONC
09-29-2009, 03:09 PM
One of them is running the Scout team most likely Brandstater. The kid showed he could excell and improve with very little rep time. Simms is getting maybe a third of the first team reps...McD isn't stupid.

That's seems to be common place for every team in the League. Your starter has to get the majority of the reps during the week so that he's prepared to play on Sunday.

The Glue Factory
09-29-2009, 04:27 PM
I think Trent Dilfer is a more accurate of a comparison.

Let's put Orton's brain in Cutler's body then. Elway threw a lot of interceptions too. Just not as many as Cutler.

Bronco Warrior
09-29-2009, 07:06 PM
Let's put Orton's brain in Cutler's body then. Elway threw a lot of interceptions too. Just not as many as Cutler.

Actually if you compare their first two years plus the partials they played as rookies..Elway 6 (more games) as a rookie he threw half the TDS and almost twice the INTS (over 50) as Cutler. But that's all moot now isn't it?!

Simple Jaded
09-29-2009, 07:21 PM
Kyle Orton is a "Game Manager" in the most negative possible meaning, if the best thing you can say about a QB's play is that he hasn't had an Int, he is a "Game Manager".......

NightTrainLayne
09-29-2009, 09:14 PM
Kyle Orton is a "Game Manager" in the most negative possible meaning, if the best thing you can say about a QB's play is that he hasn't had an Int, he is a "Game Manager".......

Who said that not having an interception is the best thing that can be said about Orton's play so far?

That's a rhetorical question.

Lonestar
09-29-2009, 09:22 PM
We're 3-0?

We're 3-0 because we have a great team that's playing well together. I'm not hating on the guy, he's done a great job. I just hope he isn't the long term answer for QB in Denver, or our offense is always going to be limited to a certain degree, IMHO.


limited to winning? That works for me..

we do not need a howitzer on the field to win consistently.. nice to have but they tend not to be winners.. force way to many balls..

Lonestar
09-29-2009, 09:26 PM
With the exception of the "Deflection" highlight which in reality was grossly underthrown ball to an open Marshall and a headup play by St. Stokely, Orton hasn't made any highlight reels or got us on plays/ or game of the week! Has he?

I guess you were not here debating that "grossly under thrown " ball but there is one here that puts that thought pretty much to rest..

had the safety not tipped it it would have been on track to Marshall's GUT..

now you may never want to believe (your prerogative) that but after looking at it most on here do..

CrazyHorse
09-29-2009, 09:34 PM
Well...Brett Favre's lone interception wasn't his fault. It was a deflected pass.
Sorry I just had to put that out there.

Simple Jaded
09-29-2009, 09:35 PM
Who said that not having an interception is the best thing that can be said about Orton's play so far?

That's a rhetorical question.

That's the first thing anybody talks about, that's practically the only thing people talk about (Besides his win/loss record), if they had better things to say they probably would have.......

Simple Jaded
09-29-2009, 09:42 PM
I don't know how other people see it, but that pass to Marshall at the end of the Cinci game was picture perfect, an absolutely horrible pass, but picture pefect, because imo, if it were even remotely close to anything that could be considered accurate the Broncos lose that game.......

Superchop 7
09-30-2009, 03:55 PM
One of three without an arm. One of three that don't step into their throws. One of three that can't checkdown. One of three with happy feet.

Just sayin.

T.K.O.
09-30-2009, 04:03 PM
orton might be the perfect qb for this system......i realize some will find a way to bash him even though he has a higher qb rating and more W's than the chosen one.....but i still think we could be in alot worse shape with another qb.....one that throws picks when we need "a game manager".
ortyon is playing exactly the way his coach is asking him to play.
we have had 4? missed field goals and couldnt punch it in from the 1 yd line last week. none of that being ortons fault,thats at least 20 points left on the field that orton put us in position to get....why arent people whining about that instead of tagging orton as a "no arm"?

T.K.O.
09-30-2009, 04:05 PM
One of three without an arm. One of three that don't step into their throws. One of three that can't checkdown. One of three with happy feet.

Just sayin.

undefeated as a bronco.....why wouldnt his feet be happy?:beer:

claymore
09-30-2009, 04:15 PM
Let's put Orton's brain in Cutler's body then. Elway threw a lot of interceptions too. Just not as many as Cutler.

I know you guys love Orton. And I love him because he is a Bronco....

But I still need to see more before I buy off on him being the long term guy. Which he very well may be.

It is unfair of me to say that I dont like the QB of my team when he has won a 100% of his games, and hasnt turned the ball over.

But..... His processor looks maxed out. And he seems like he is scared to make a play.

Im a firm believer in repitition, and doing it good slow, before you try it fast. So.... I have considerable hope, but Im not convinced I want Ortons brain in Cutler smokin hot bod.

Dean
09-30-2009, 05:41 PM
Just wondering after reading these posts what your opinion in this situation would be. If the running game is not being productive and the defense allowed the opponents a two TD lead, do you think that Orton could bring us back in a quarter of play?

I have serious doubts that he could shoulder the load but we may get a chance to see in the next five games.

If the defense and rushing attack can continue picking up wins, I am all for it.

Simple Jaded
09-30-2009, 05:46 PM
Orton's brain in Cutler's body wouldn't be a complete waste of time, they have the same career Int percentage and it would still result in the same amount of mistakes, but Cutler makes mistakes by forcing the ball into his receivers, Orton makes mistakes to save the lives of innocent puppies.......

T.K.O.
09-30-2009, 07:31 PM
cutler has made alot more mistakes this year (so far) and the bears would be 1-2 maybe 0-3 if not for opposing kickers missing fg's
at the same time we have left many points on the field with missed kicks and the inability to punch it in with our "rushing attack"
so i would say orton has been carefull with the ball and also mcd himself said that he called the 3rd and 4th quarters extremely conservatively.the last 2 weeks.
combined with the fact that marshall is just getting his bearings in the offense and kyle has played with a glove on an injured hand ....i say give him a couple more weeks to impress those ofyou who arent impressed with a qb who has only won since putting on a broncos jersey!

TXBRONC
09-30-2009, 08:20 PM
Just wondering after reading these posts what your opinion in this situation would be. If the running game is not being productive and the defense allowed the opponents a two TD lead, do you think that Orton could bring us back in a quarter of play?

I have serious doubts that he could shoulder the load but we may get a chance to see in the next five games.

If the defense and rushing attack can continue picking up wins, I am all for it.

I agree this is the million dollar question. If we're down by two scores going into the 4th quarter can Orton pull it out because the game will be definitely riding on his shoulders in that kind of situation.

Dean
11-10-2009, 11:12 PM
Unfortunately, the last two weeks have answered my question. I have to admit that he hasn't been given much of a chance to win a game. He does not appear to have permission to throw the ball down the field.:tsk: Spread offense dink and dunk won't keep 8 and 9 in the box from containing both the run and the pass.

Denver Native (Carol)
11-10-2009, 11:39 PM
Unfortunately, the last two weeks have answered my question. I have to admit that he hasn't been given much of a chance to win a game. He does not appear to have permission to throw the ball down the field.:tsk: Spread offense dink and dunk won't keep 8 and 9 in the box from containing both the run and the pass.

Today Nate Jackson was a guest on FM104.3TheFan, and he basically said the same thing - i.e. - Nate said that it's not that Kyle can not throw the ball downfield, the game plans do not call for him to do that. I think it is time that they open it up.

TXBRONC
11-11-2009, 09:58 AM
Today Nate Jackson was a guest on FM104.3TheFan, and he basically said the same thing - i.e. - Nate said that it's not that Kyle can not throw the ball downfield, the game plans do not call for him to do that. I think it is time that they open it up.

Yeah it doesn't have to be bombs away. If they do it a few times a game that will help to keep defenses honest.

Dortoh
11-11-2009, 10:07 AM
I think as long as he continues to only throw short passes over the middle this trend will continue.

Unfortunatly I was once again incorrect

Denver Native (Carol)
11-11-2009, 01:52 PM
Kyle finished his part of today's press conference a little bit ago, and said that there were a couple of times in Monday night's game that throwing it downfield was called - but they did not get the looks they wanted.

To me, it is certainly better to not throw it, if the other team's defense is not right for it, rather than put it up for grabs - just to be doing it.

TXBRONC
11-11-2009, 02:03 PM
Kyle finished his part of today's press conference a little bit ago, and said that there were a couple of times in Monday night's game that throwing it downfield was called - but they did not get the looks they wanted.

To me, it is certainly better to not throw it, if the other team's defense is not right for it, rather than put it up for grabs - just to be doing it.

Well then I guess they better figure out away taking some shots down field so that can loosen up the defense a bit.

Ravage!!!
11-11-2009, 02:12 PM
Kyle finished his part of today's press conference a little bit ago, and said that there were a couple of times in Monday night's game that throwing it downfield was called - but they did not get the looks they wanted.

To me, it is certainly better to not throw it, if the other team's defense is not right for it, rather than put it up for grabs - just to be doing it.

This is somthing I've wondered about as well. Is it that Orton is SOOO careful with the ball, and afraid to throw the INT, that the 'looks' he gets just simply makes him want to check down and throw the easy check a lot?

I think there is a line of being 'too' careful with the ball and just being afraid to put the ball downfield.

Northman
11-11-2009, 05:05 PM
This is somthing I've wondered about as well. Is it that Orton is SOOO careful with the ball, and afraid to throw the INT, that the 'looks' he gets just simply makes him want to check down and throw the easy check a lot?

I think there is a line of being 'too' careful with the ball and just being afraid to put the ball downfield.


Well, if in the next game he throws a lot down the field and gets a lot of interceptions you will know your answer.

Ravage!!!
11-11-2009, 05:25 PM
Well, if in the next game he throws a lot down the field and gets a lot of interceptions you will know your answer.

heh.. well.... I don't think he will throw a lot of INTs in Washington. But then, Washington isn't exactly a team I would use as a measuring stick of any sorts

The Glue Factory
11-11-2009, 09:40 PM
This is somthing I've wondered about as well. Is it that Orton is SOOO careful with the ball, and afraid to throw the INT, that the 'looks' he gets just simply makes him want to check down and throw the easy check a lot?

I think there is a line of being 'too' careful with the ball and just being afraid to put the ball downfield.

I wouldn't have a problem if he throws it up for grabs to Marshall in one-on-one coverage. Then again, how much time has Orton had to wait on someone getting beyond 10 yards the last two weeks?