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Kaylore
09-28-2009, 10:53 AM
I did some nerd work and looked up the Parcells coaches (including Parcells) who started 3-0 to see how the teams finished.

Parcells
'89 Giants 12-4
'90 Giants 13-3

Belichick
'93 Browns 7-9
'02 Patriots 9-7
'04 Patriots 14-2
'07 Patriots 16-0

Coughlin
'97 Jags 11-5
'98 Jags 11-5
'08 Giants 12-4

Sean Payton
'06 Saints 10-6

The worst any of those teams finished was 7-9. The best was 16-0. The average was 11.5 wins. Three of these teams reached the Super Bowl and two won.

What does it mean? Not sure. However with a good special teams coverage unit, a solid defense, a good running game and an offense that doesn't turn the ball over you will win a lot games.

To win just 7 games we only need to win 4 of the next 13 games. Not even a little hard. To win 10 games we need to win 7 of the next 13. I think we at worst finish with 9-7.

To tie Shanahan at 8-8 we need five wins, and with a harder schedule that would mean McDaniels was an upgrade.

Just something to think about.

NightTrainLayne
09-28-2009, 10:59 AM
I'm trying not to look too far ahead. I just want us to beat Dallas next week right now.

I hope McD has the team doing the same. Last thing we need is for them to start reading their own press clippings. The press was wrong all off-season, no need to pay attention to them now.

claymore
09-28-2009, 11:01 AM
I'm trying not to look too far ahead. I just want us to beat Dallas next week right now.

I hope McD has the team doing the same. Last thing we need is for them to start reading their own press clippings. The press was wrong all off-season, no need to pay attention to them now.

Im not getting my hopes up till we beat some better teams.

CrazyHorse
09-28-2009, 11:02 AM
Nolan was the real upgrade. Orton however was a downgrade.

Kaylore
09-28-2009, 11:07 AM
Nolan was the real upgrade. Orton however was a downgrade.

This how the McD haters are going to spin this. They will give no credit to McDaniels making the game plans, hiring the assistants, upgrading the scoring offense, the light years of improvement on special teams, and most of all the hiring of Mike Nolan.

I can already see in five weeks McD haters saying "Josh got lucky. This team is Nolan's team and McD is just an empty suit along for the ride."

By the way we're second in turnover differential at +6.

And way to ignore the point of my post, which is wins and our potential record.

claymore
09-28-2009, 11:16 AM
This how the McD haters are going to spin this. They will give no credit to McDaniels making the game plans, hiring the assistants, upgrading the scoring offense, the light years of improvement on special teams, and most of all the hiring of Mike Nolan.

I can already see in five weeks McD haters saying "Josh got lucky. This team is Nolan's team and McD is just an empty suit along for the ride."

By the way we're second in turnover differential at +6.

And way to ignore the point of my post, which is wins and our potential record.

Thru 3 games our offense is half as good as 08, and our defense is 5 times better.

Its not about hating McD. Its about giving Nolan the props that he is due.

CoachChaz
09-28-2009, 11:21 AM
Thru 3 games our offense is half as good as 08, and our defense is 5 times better.

Its not about hating McD. Its about giving Nolan the props that he is due.

Keep in mind, our offense doesnt HAVE to score 30 points a game right now. All they have to do is score enough to win and not make mistakes. Right now...the offense is MUCH more efficient than it was last year at ANY time. Look behind the numbers.

claymore
09-28-2009, 11:26 AM
Keep in mind, our offense doesnt HAVE to score 30 points a game right now. All they have to do is score enough to win and not make mistakes. Right now...the offense is MUCH more efficient than it was last year at ANY time. Look behind the numbers.

I see 2 out of 6 redzone scores yesterday. I know we dont HAVE to score as many points as last year. But I dont think we will keep up this record breaking pace on defense either.

This sounds harsh, but it seems like we bore the other team into letting us score.

underrated29
09-28-2009, 11:29 AM
i agree. But i am worried about our offense going against a good defense. A defense that can bring pressure. Or be stout against the run/pass.

Cincy has a pretty ok defense and they kept us to 6 pts all game. Now i didnt get to see that game and it was the first game of the year. So obviously, stuff has been getting worked out since then.

I do think that our offense will come along, just like the pats and cassell did last year. Remember they started out the first 4 games or so like crap. Then cassel got his groove on and they started to roll again.

I forsee something similiar, but until KYle gets it, and we start to open things up i remain nervous. Its not the total offense, its the ability to score when we must. Jay had that, i dont know if this team does yet.




(hope i never find out either)

Kaylore
09-28-2009, 11:32 AM
Thru 3 games our offense is half as good as 08
False.

They are ranked 9th in yardage as opposed to 2nd, That's still top ten. But more importantly they are ranked 14th in scoring, the only stat that matters, which is two spots higher than they were in '08. So they're better.

Kaylore
09-28-2009, 11:34 AM
Its not the total offense, its the ability to score when we must. Jay had that, i dont know if this team does yet.


Jay didn't have that. He was the worst redzone QB in the league leading the NFL in redzone turnovers. And as I already stated, our scoring offense is already better than last year by two spots.

MOtorboat
09-28-2009, 11:35 AM
Im not getting my hopes up till we beat some better teams.

Cincinnati just beat the defending champions...

:vroam:

And 20-point wins...back-to-back don't happen in the NFL very often, no matter who anyone is playing back-to-back.

I'm not going to jump up and down and say we're Super Bowl bound, because I doubt we are...but this isn't college football, and we're not playing the sisters of the poor. We beat the crap out of two teams, two weeks in a row.

Good football teams beat up down-trodden teams and keep themselves in games with other good teams. Right now, that looks to me like what we're doing, which would mean we're a good football team...

:knocksonwood:

claymore
09-28-2009, 11:37 AM
False.

They are ranked 9th in yardage as opposed to 2nd, That's still top ten. But more importantly they are ranked 14th in scoring, the only stat that matters, which is two spots higher than they were in '08. So they're better.

I said 3 games.

09 thru 3 games 62 points 20.6 points a game.

08 thru 3 games 114 points 38 points a game.

We stank it up following our opening 3 game offensive performance though. I got my hopes up then too. Thats why I choose to be more reserved this year.

roomemp
09-28-2009, 11:43 AM
Thru 3 games our offense is half as good as 08, and our defense is 5 times better.

Its not about hating McD. Its about giving Nolan the props that he is due.

McDaniels deserves just as much credit for turning the D around. He is the guy who went out and brought in the personel........Remember when everyone was saying that he did not address the front 7 and brought in a long toothed secondary???? Obviously he knew what he was doing. McDaniels is also the guy who assembled the coacing staff. McDaniels is the REAL DEAL.

Traveler
09-28-2009, 11:45 AM
Even if they go 4-4 (hoping for 6-2) in home games, that would put us at the 7 win mark minimum.

claymore
09-28-2009, 11:48 AM
McDaniels deserves just as much credit for turning the D around. He is the guy who went out and brought in the personel........Remember when everyone was saying that he did not address the front 7 and brought in a long toothed secondary???? Obviously he knew what he was doing. McDaniels is also the guy who assembled the coacing staff. McDaniels is the REAL DEAL.

I for one was happy he didnt reach in the draft for defensive lineman that he didnt like.

As far as the credit..... We might as well pat Bowlen (no pun intended), Ellis etc... on the back and tell them they knew what they were doing all along.

But I choose to go to the source and say good Job Nolan!

NightTrainLayne
09-28-2009, 11:52 AM
Shanny never could bring in a top-notch Defensive Coordinator.

I'll give McD praise all day long for doing so. Being a Head Coach in the NFL is all about the staff that you surround yourself with. McD has done an exemplary job of that. For anyone to try and take that away from him and act like he just stumbled upon Nolan is fooling themselves.

roomemp
09-28-2009, 11:53 AM
I for one was happy he didnt reach in the draft for defensive lineman that he didnt like.

As far as the credit..... We might as well pat Bowlen (no pun intended), Ellis etc... on the back and tell them they knew what they were doing all along.

But I choose to go to the source and say good Job Nolan!


I see what you are saying. Bowlen does deserve a lot of credit too......That "
Senile" guy brought McDaniels in

GEM
09-28-2009, 11:55 AM
Shanny never could bring in a top-notch Defensive Coordinator.

I'll give McD praise all day long for doing so. Being a Head Coach in the NFL is all about the staff that you surround yourself with. McD has done an exemplary job of that. For anyone to try and take that away from him and act like he just stumbled upon Nolan is fooling themselves.

McDaniels was on the Vic & Gary show this morning. They asked him about the Nolan pick. He said Nolan is the only guy he had in mind, the only guy he interviewed.

He knows what he wants, he has the confidence to go get it. I am especially impressed that the fact that Nolan was a Head Coach previously didn't stand in his way.

claymore
09-28-2009, 11:56 AM
McDaniels was on the Vic & Gary show this morning. They asked him about the Nolan pick. He said Nolan is the only guy he had in mind, the only guy he interviewed.

He knows what he wants, he has the confidence to go get it. I am especially impressed that the fact that Nolan was a Head Coach previously didn't stand in his way.

If this defense is "for real"..... We are in real danger of losing Nolan next year.

Taking the worst defense "Eva" and turning them into this bunch is nothing short of a miracle.

Northman
09-28-2009, 11:58 AM
Either way, thank you McD for bringing Nolan to Denver! For once, it was nice to have a household name as a D Cordinator. Thank you!

Northman
09-28-2009, 11:58 AM
If this defense is "for real"..... We are in real danger of losing Nolan next year.

Taking the worst defense "Eva" and turning them into this bunch is nothing short of a miracle.

I dont care if we have to pay Nolan head coaching money to stay as D cordinator. You do it! :lol:

claymore
09-28-2009, 12:00 PM
I dont care if we have to pay Nolan head coaching money to stay as D cordinator. You do it! :lol:

No kidding. Hopefully he is content being a coordinator after his term in San fran as the HC.

Slick
09-28-2009, 12:02 PM
Thru 3 games our offense is half as good as 08, and our defense is 5 times better.

Its not about hating McD. Its about giving Nolan the props that he is due.

Nolan wouldn't be here if it weren't for McDaniels.

claymore
09-28-2009, 12:06 PM
Nolan wouldn't be here if it weren't for McDaniels.

Shanny wouldnt have brought him in thats for sure.

DenBronx
09-28-2009, 12:11 PM
Shanny never could bring in a top-notch Defensive Coordinator.

I'll give McD praise all day long for doing so. Being a Head Coach in the NFL is all about the staff that you surround yourself with. McD has done an exemplary job of that. For anyone to try and take that away from him and act like he just stumbled upon Nolan is fooling themselves.

well, coyer did do some good things here for us here. he is also having good success with the right personel in indy. it did help us get to the afccg so you can't say never.

but i like nolans style much much better than coyers. our defense looks like it has a mean streak or out for blood type attitude. hiring nolan and bringing in dawkins was mcdaniels best offseason moves.

DenBronx
09-28-2009, 12:14 PM
Shanny wouldnt have brought him in thats for sure.

always wondered why shanny wouldnt bring in guys like nolan, capers or a real pure 3-4 defensive coach. i also don't know if he completely lost his marbles with slowik because he had to be among the worst dc here in denver.

Slick
09-28-2009, 12:15 PM
Shanny wouldnt have brought him in thats for sure.

Mike Shanahan -"Bob just needs some more talent and another season for the players to gel."

Bowlen- "It's been real, Mike."



As far as the topic goes, I admit I was a bit skeptical about the hire, and of the Belichek coaching tree in general ( Bill Walsh stands alone in that regard), but I took a wait and see approach as many of us did. Josh took over a team with no identity, no mental toughness...a finesse team. It's amazing what he's done so far.

Day1BroncoFan
09-28-2009, 12:16 PM
I have noticed a difference in the three wins we have this year as compared to the three wins we started with last year, notwithstanding the miracle play. We have won the last two games decisively with power as opposed to last year by last minute field goals and such.

Northman
09-28-2009, 12:18 PM
I just really like the intensity and the excitement the players show right now. It will be interesting to see how we play the next few weeks but even if we lose i expect us to be competitive and not get blown out which is a step in the right direction.

Requiem / The Dagda
09-28-2009, 12:19 PM
Nolan was a fantastic decision by Josh that should be continuously applauded. I know I've repeated this several times, but I cannot tell you how much that Marques Douglas (a former player who Nolan had let follow from Baltimore to SF, etc.) glowed about Nolan when I interviewed him last Spring. Seriously, he had so many good things to say about Mike as a coach I couldn't even write them all down.

Marques Douglas is an average player in the NFL, but it is clear to see that his best seasons in the NFL came under the tutelage of Mike Nolan. The thing I remember the most vividly was Douglas saying how the players essentially can define their roles. Nolan strongly encourages feedback from all players, especially veterans in order to make the changes necessary to succeed.

Nolan has an athletic group of players on the defensive front that he'll be able to tool with and develop. He knows exactly what he needs to make his scheme work, and he's doing it. I don't think anybody would have thought (even the biggest of us homers) that Nolan would be on the path for a top five or ten defense when the season started.

I don't care if people think the Bengals, Browns and Raiders weren't worthy opponents. Any time you can hold three teams to a total of 16 points and one touchdown scored through the first several weeks is a good thing. I'm pleasantly surprised by the performance of our DL, and especially our front 7. If the Broncos can keep this up, and fine-tune some of the intricacies regarding their offense (in particular, red zone) -- this is going to be a tough team to beat.

Is that Dallas game at Mile High? If so, I expect tens of thousands of Broncos fans to creep in there and cheer their asses off hoping that their team can get to 4-0. That'd be absolutely huge. Like Josh said, he has never been a part of a losing team in his life. He'll be the first to admit that it was his fault if that is where the team ends up. However, it looks like he's talking the talk and walking the walk.

This 2009 Denver Broncos team is one of the funnest and most interesting I've got to see play, granted I've only been a fan for a little over a decade. I'm seriously so enthusiastic about where this team is heading and where it can go.

GO BRONCOS!

Traveler
09-28-2009, 12:22 PM
McDaniels was on the Vic & Gary show this morning. They asked him about the Nolan pick. He said Nolan is the only guy he had in mind, the only guy he interviewed.

He knows what he wants, he has the confidence to go get it. I am especially impressed that the fact that Nolan was a Head Coach previously didn't stand in his way.

Might have to call BS on McDaniels. If I recall correctly, he was supposedly making overtures to Dom Capers too.

There was some media speculation that he would land both, but weren't sure who would get the DC position. I'm just glad Capers deceded to go elsewhere. McDaniels gets major props for choosing Nolan!

DenBronx
09-28-2009, 12:24 PM
Mike Shanahan -"Bob just needs some more talent and another season for the players to gel."

Bowlen- "It's been real, Mike."



As far as the topic goes, I admit I was a bit skeptical about the hire, and of the Belichek coaching tree in general ( Bill Walsh stands alone in that regard), but I took a wait and see approach as many of us did. Josh took over a team with no identity, no mental toughness...a finesse team. It's amazing what he's done so far.

i have to agree with you. we were really soft on defense. it was embarassing to watch, especially when we played the chargers. no intensity at all and anyone could run on us any given sunday.

guys like dume are excelling and we are built to stop the run now. i can see why we concentrated now so heavily on the secondary because nolan already knew who and how he was going to use the front 3.

orton isnt the worlds most flashy qb but one thing to note is that he plays to win. he doesnt like turning over the ball. i dont recall a denver qb really throwing it away when there was nothing there. cutler, plummer and even griese seemed to force things way too much and that lead to lots of ints. i think that explains why ortons winning percentage is so high. he lets the defense do the job and trys again on the next drive.

we also have been doing good punting/field position and kicking.

Slick
09-28-2009, 12:30 PM
i have to agree with you. we were really soft on defense. it was embarassing to watch, especially when we played the chargers. no intensity at all and anyone could run on us any given sunday.

guys like dume are excelling and we are built to stop the run now. i can see why we concentrated now so heavily on the secondary because nolan already knew who and how he was going to use the front 3.

orton isnt the worlds most flashy qb but one thing to note is that he plays to win. he doesnt like turning over the ball. i dont recall a denver qb really throwing it away when there was nothing there. cutler, plummer and even griese seemed to force things way too much and that lead to lots of ints. i think that explains why ortons winning percentage is so high. he lets the defense do the job and trys again on the next drive.

we also have been doing good punting/field position and kicking.

We're just going to have to accept who Orton is, Josh has, it's time for some of the fans to do that as well.

Northman
09-28-2009, 12:32 PM
It was funny reading the Raiders forums last night. Most of them talked about before the game that they wanted to see the Faid stomp a mudhole in our asses but it turned out that we did the stomping. Considering McD was new to not only the team but the rivalry between Denver and Oakland it was nice to see that he had the team prepared and executed perfectly. And consider this, if McD can get us back to owning homefield and we win out at home (tough job i know) that would give us 10 wins which would be outstanding in his first year.

DenBronx
09-28-2009, 12:37 PM
We're just going to have to accept who Orton is, Josh has, it's time for some of the fans to do that as well.

orton is a game manager. those types of qb's work very well when you have a stout defense. like baltimore and tampa had when they won superbowls.

but i do want to see what we can do in the next 6 games. i think we can beat dallas and that will do alot for the moral of the team.

Slick
09-28-2009, 12:44 PM
orton is a game manager. those types of qb's work very well when you have a stout defense. like baltimore and tampa had when they won superbowls.

but i do want to see what we can do in the next 6 games. i think we can beat dallas and that will do alot for the moral of the team.

He's going to have to take some risks at some point in the season, we all know this. You can't simply manage games all season. At some point, we'll be losing late, and throwing a ball away won't be an option. Whatever happens in that situation, I think the team is behind him, it looks like there's chemistry between the guys, something we haven't seen in forever.

I think we can beat Dallas too. Nolan's defenses force turnovers, and Romo loves to give the ball away. If Barber is still out, even better.

MileHighWrath
09-28-2009, 12:46 PM
Is the O better or worse? Is the D better or worse? Is the team improving every week? Are the 3 wins quality enough to be able to gauge what the rest of the season holds for the Broncos?

While I'll admit these are good questions and I would love to KNOW the answers right now I am still having a great deal of difficulty knowing what I am going to watch from one week to another. So far the trend seems obvious; outstanding D, solid to competent O, very good Special Teams, good turnover ratio.

None of this, however, can effect the fact that the Broncos are, 3-0 and lead their division.

Let's face it, Dallas comes into Mile High on Sun. Should the Broncos deliver yet another win, there will still be those "realistic" Denver fans that will poo poo the W and say, well Romo sucks and Dallas is over rated, just wait until NE stomps on Denver, then let's see how good this 4-0 team really is. Should they beat NE, "realistic" fans will say, well Brady is off this year and their D is going through transition, wait until they get beat by SD next week. Then we'll see just how bad this 5-0 team really is.

Why does it take a loss to make such determinations? I understand that the fade is one of the 2-3 worse teams in the league and perhaps the browns are right there with them. Some luck against the bungholes delivered a win but cinci has scored large points against "quality" teams since (54 in 2 games).

Rather than dish out negativity or reserve any praise until they get a "quality" win I'll just do this:

UNDEFEATED DENVER BRONCOS 3-0
W O O H O O! ! !

and love every minute of it.

Bring on those cowgirls and let's see how "God's team" fairs at altitude against the D O O M of Denver's D.

The rest of you can worry about all that other stuff, I'm having fun.

Tned
09-28-2009, 12:56 PM
I'm trying not to look too far ahead. I just want us to beat Dallas next week right now.

I hope McD has the team doing the same. Last thing we need is for them to start reading their own press clippings. The press was wrong all off-season, no need to pay attention to them now.

He seems like the kind of coach that is going to let the team know that if they look ahead, they will lose.

Everything about him screams take care of the little things, take care of this week, and let the big thing and season take care of itself.

Tned
09-28-2009, 12:57 PM
Might have to call BS on McDaniels. If I recall correctly, he was supposedly making overtures to Dom Capers too.

There was some media speculation that he would land both, but weren't sure who would get the DC position. I'm just glad Capers deceded to go elsewhere. McDaniels gets major props for choosing Nolan!

The press speculated that because of the NE ties, but I don't recall him every talking about Capers. It might have been pure speculation in the press. Not sure.

underrated29
09-28-2009, 12:58 PM
i also don't know if he completely lost his marbles with slowik because he had to be among the worst dc here in denver.


WRONG!!!!!


He was the worst DC in the history of Football!!!!

hehehe


(but its true!!)
:salute:

MadMax
09-28-2009, 01:07 PM
Nolan has done a damn fine job (almost too good, I fear we might soon have to start sending trucks full of money to his house every week to keep him). But... McDaniels said something right after we hired him that really stuck with me he said something about how the defense wasn't the only problem last season, that we had way to many 2 minute possessions that ended in a field goals. I had wondered the same thing, Cutler was so good at racking up gobs of yardage that even decent length drives never gave our defense any rest.

Fast forward to today we kicked what three FG's? But even the drives ending in a FG I don't think any one of them lasted less than five minutes. So McD deserves credit for coming up with gameplans that help both sides of the ball perform. And it feels much more like a team, when we lose I think we will see people own up to their own shortcomings instead of throwing the defense under the bus like last year.

(Yes and Nolan deserves a ton of credit but we need to dig up some dirt on that guy or im telling you TRUCKLOADS of money)

TXBRONC
09-28-2009, 01:08 PM
The press speculated that because of the NE ties, but I don't recall him every talking about Capers. It might have been pure speculation in the press. Not sure.

This is correct from what I remember.

DenBronx
09-28-2009, 01:09 PM
well fantasy experts say this; if a defense plays good the first 3 to 4 weeks then its almost a gaurantee they will be that good the rest of the year. if we play like this against dallas then i'm positive we will continue this throughout the season.

DenBronx
09-28-2009, 01:10 PM
WRONG!!!!!


He was the worst DC in the history of Football!!!!

hehehe


(but its true!!)
:salute:

i just dont understand why shanny was willing to lose his job over this bum.

claymore
09-28-2009, 01:17 PM
i just dont understand why shanny was willing to lose his job over this bum.

7 Million a year to sit at the house? Id do it. !

DenBronx
09-28-2009, 02:23 PM
7 Million a year to sit at the house? Id do it. !

i thought he would get full pay as long as he was actively looking for another job with the nfl. i dont recall shanny ever job hunting since he was canned.

claymore
09-28-2009, 02:32 PM
i thought he would get full pay as long as he was actively looking for another job with the nfl. i dont recall shanny ever job hunting since he was canned.

Yeah, all I know is he is getting paid as we speak. Im sure he doesnt have to take any job offered, there has to be some lattitude.

T.K.O.
09-28-2009, 02:38 PM
Yeah, all I know is he is getting paid as we speak. Im sure he doesnt have to take any job offered, there has to be some lattitude.

he has 3 years left on his contract and can stay home and make 6.8 mil a year until then if he wants,but he has made it known he will seek a hc job in 2010(will be the cowboys if wade doesnt get deep in the playoffs)
although his phone might be ringing from washington today.
he doesnt have to look for a job the 20+mil is gaurenteed from bowlen,unless he gets another job before the contract is up:salute:

claymore
09-28-2009, 02:45 PM
he has 3 years left on his contract and can stay home and make 6.8 mil a year until then if he wants,but he has made it known he will seek a hc job in 2010(will be the cowboys if wade doesnt get deep in the playoffs)
although his phone might be ringing from washington today.
he doesnt have to look for a job the 20+mil is gaurenteed from bowlen,unless he gets another job before the contract is up:salute:

An uncapped year in Dallas? Shannahan will be in heaven. How Ironic for Wade.

Nomad
09-28-2009, 04:34 PM
An uncapped year in Dallas? Shannahan will be in heaven. How Ironic for Wade.

Nolan has been great and I'm anxious to see what he can do against the so-called elite teams of the NFL (which is any team out east according to many sports pundits!

Anyway, I'm sure Jerry has contacted Shanny and put him on standby (he cover Denver's payout) because if they lose tonight and we all know they'll lose next Sunday, Jerry's patience will have all but ran out!;)

Bozo Jr.
09-28-2009, 06:36 PM
False.

They are ranked 9th in yardage as opposed to 2nd, That's still top ten. But more importantly they are ranked 14th in scoring, the only stat that matters, which is two spots higher than they were in '08. So they're better.

Oh!!!.... someone just got served!

Bozo Jr.
09-28-2009, 06:38 PM
Jay didn't have that. He was the worst redzone QB in the league leading the NFL in redzone turnovers. And as I already stated, our scoring offense is already better than last year by two spots.

OMG Served again!!! Go get 'em Kaylore! :salute:

Tned
09-29-2009, 07:35 AM
False.

They are ranked 9th in yardage as opposed to 2nd, That's still top ten. But more importantly they are ranked 14th in scoring, the only stat that matters, which is two spots higher than they were in '08. So they're better.

After week 3, the Broncos are now 1st in total defense and scoring defense. 2nd in passing defense and 7th in rushing defense.

claymore
09-29-2009, 07:58 AM
Thru 3 games our offense is half as good as 08, and our defense is 5 times better.

Its not about hating McD. Its about giving Nolan the props that he is due.


False.

They are ranked 9th in yardage as opposed to 2nd, That's still top ten. But more importantly they are ranked 14th in scoring, the only stat that matters, which is two spots higher than they were in '08. So they're better.

Oh!!!.... someone just got served!

I said 3 games.

09 thru 3 games 62 points 20.6 points a game.

08 thru 3 games 114 points 38 points a game.

We stank it up following our opening 3 game offensive performance though. I got my hopes up then too. Thats why I choose to be more reserved this year.


Jay didn't have that. He was the worst redzone QB in the league leading the NFL in redzone turnovers. And as I already stated, our scoring offense is already better than last year by two spots. In order to make that comparison you need to wait until the season is played out. But comparing 3 games to 3 games, we are far and away worse on offense, and far and away better on defense.

Tned
09-29-2009, 08:02 AM
After week 3, the Broncos are now 1st in total defense and scoring defense. 2nd in passing defense and 7th in rushing defense.

My bad, for some reason I was thinking Kaylore was talking defense. Early morning, sleepy post.

MOtorboat
09-29-2009, 08:11 AM
In order to make that comparison you need to wait until the season is played out. But comparing 3 games to 3 games, we are far and away worse on offense, and far and away better on defense.

Far and away...huh...two 20-point victories and we are far and away worse on offense...

Sounds like someone has a completely Jay-skewed version of things.

claymore
09-29-2009, 08:16 AM
Far and away...huh...two 20-point victories and we are far and away worse on offense...

Sounds like someone has a completely Jay-skewed version of things.Yes, that is 18 points less a game MO. Against scrub teams. (Cinci is up in the air)

MOtorboat
09-29-2009, 08:19 AM
Yes, that is 18 points less a game MO. Against scrub teams. (Cinci is up in the air)

Yet we won by 20...we scored 20 more points than our opponents. We didn't have to score any more.

If you take a look at the the second and third games of last year we HAD to score in the 30s to win the games. Sure...I would have loved to beat the Raiders 31-3 or 37-3...but the point is...this year we don't have to...so saying we're decidedly worse on offense is just skewed.

If we had any semblance of a defense last year, we don't have to score 39 or 34 in week 2 or 3 last year, and we probably wouldn't have.

Personally...I'll take the sustained drives and time of possession over a 39-38 win.

claymore
09-29-2009, 08:28 AM
Yet we won by 20...we scored 20 more points than our opponents. We didn't have to score any more.

If you take a look at the the second and third games of last year we HAD to score in the 30s to win the games. Sure...I would have loved to beat the Raiders 31-3 or 37-3...but the point is...this year we don't have to...so saying we're decidedly worse on offense is just skewed.

If we had any semblance of a defense last year, we don't have to score 39 or 34 in week 2 or 3 last year, and we probably wouldn't have.

Personally...I'll take the sustained drives and time of possession over a 39-38 win.
I said we were 5 times better on defense. Thats the thing, people only argue with you if you say something mildly negative about the Broncos.

We have yet to prove we can have a sustained drive against a good team. The best team we played thus far was Cinci. We made it to the redzone zero times.

So zero percent Red Zone Efficiency against the 16th ranked defense, and 40% against the 23rd and 30th ranked defense.

Im not overly confident.

MOtorboat
09-29-2009, 08:53 AM
I said we were 5 times better on defense. Thats the thing, people only argue with you if you say something mildly negative about the Broncos.

We have yet to prove we can have a sustained drive against a good team. The best team we played thus far was Cinci. We made it to the redzone zero times.

So zero percent Red Zone Efficiency against the 16th ranked defense, and 40% against the 23rd and 30th ranked defense.

Im not overly confident.

Red zone offense has to improve, yes, but we are not markedly worse on offense this year, yet we are better on defense. Our offense was so atrocious in the red zone last year...I mean bottom-of-the-league atrocious.

Another stat to chew on. 8th in TOP through three games this year. All of last year, we were 25th in the league in TOP. We have a better TOP by 1:30 this season over last year's first three games...and that's with all those fantastical points.

(P.S. We are No. 1 on defense...beat the teams you should beat handily, stay in the games that are tough...we've done that...and we're 3-0)

Bronco Warrior
09-29-2009, 10:36 AM
Ok..here is the deal. I'm not sure what the Parcells comparison is all about. the truth is that Bellicheat offspring don't have a winning record overall ON ANY LEVEL! Wiess has even stunk it up @ Notre Dame. The Bellicheck way doesn't work anywhere outside Foxburough without videotape steroids and defensive signals in Brady's ear.

Having said that I think that Josh has become his own man.... and it was a rough road..and will break out of the mold of nasty sweatshirted anything to win mold of his mentor! Damn I think I'll save the rest for a new thread..lol!

I said the day after the scheduale came out we go 10-6 minimum and that will win the west going away but I see more like 11+ wins now since many of the losses I had figured look easily winable now including the Pitt, @Indy, and @ SD.

claymore
09-29-2009, 10:48 AM
Red zone offense has to improve, yes, but we are not markedly worse on offense this year, yet we are better on defense. Our offense was so atrocious in the red zone last year...I mean bottom-of-the-league atrocious.

Another stat to chew on. 8th in TOP through three games this year. All of last year, we were 25th in the league in TOP. We have a better TOP by 1:30 this season over last year's first three games...and that's with all those fantastical points.

(P.S. We are No. 1 on defense...beat the teams you should beat handily, stay in the games that are tough...we've done that...and we're 3-0)

We are far worse on offense in the first 3 games. We are far better on defense Thru the first 3 games. Thats all I said. Its proven statistically, and on the scoreboard.

Argue all you want. You cant unprove the fact that we are scoring almost less than 18 points a game less, agains worse teams.

TXBRONC
09-29-2009, 10:50 AM
Ok..here is the deal. I'm not sure what the Parcells comparison is all about. the truth is that Bellicheat offspring don't have a winning record overall ON ANY LEVEL! Weiss has even stunk it up @ Notre Dame. The Bellicheck way doesn't work anywhere outside Foxborough without videotape steroids and defensive signals in Brady's ear.

Having said that I think that Josh has become his own man.... and it was a rough road..and will break out of the mold of nasty sweatshirted anything to win mold of his mentor! Damn I think I'll save the rest for a new thread..lol!

I said the day after the schedule came out we go 10-6 minimum and that will win the west going away but I see more like 11+ wins now since many of the losses I had figured look easily winnable now including the Pitt, @Indy, and @ SD.

I agree that right now Pitt, Indy, SD, and for that matter NE look beatable but one the thing we can't do against them is leave points on the field. Two weeks ago the Colts offense had the ball for 15 minutes the entire game and still won.

MOtorboat
09-29-2009, 10:57 AM
We are far worse on offense in the first 3 games. We are far better on defense Thru the first 3 games. Thats all I said. Its proven statistically, and on the scoreboard.

Argue all you want. You cant unprove the fact that we are scoring almost less than 18 points a game less, agains worse teams.

So...now its about points...

It was about yards when we were the "No. 1" offense in football last year...now...now that its Orton...it's points. :rolleyes:

9th in offense by the way. 9th vs. 2nd...that is not decidedly worse. No matter how you argue it, we have the 9th ranked offense in football.

(You know, because its about yards, not points...:rolleyes:)

Bronco Warrior
09-29-2009, 11:01 AM
We are far worse on offense in the first 3 games. We are far better on defense Thru the first 3 games. Thats all I said. Its proven statistically, and on the scoreboard.

Argue all you want. You cant unprove the fact that we are scoring almost less than 18 points a game less, agains worse teams.

So far the offense and the defense are opposite ends of the saying "No guts No Glory!". Nolan's Gang is a herd of wild horses that he has somehow got all running in the same direction. The Offense is a plow-horse leading a team of thoroughbred race horses! The wagon is more often than not gonna get there but it is a serious waste of talent especially our Receivers! Gonna stop now before I ramble! :rant:

Denver Native (Carol)
09-29-2009, 11:02 AM
Points - all I care about points is if the Broncos have 1 more point than their opposition when the game is over.

claymore
09-29-2009, 11:04 AM
So...now its about points...

It was about yards when we were the "No. 1" offense in football last year...now...now that its Orton...it's points. :rolleyes:

9th in offense by the way. 9th vs. 2nd...that is not decidedly worse. No matter how you argue it, we have the 9th ranked offense in football.

(You know, because its about yards, not points...:rolleyes:)

Its never been about yards. I dont know what your talking about.

We are the 14th ranked in points. Which is worse than I gave us credit for.

Im sure we are ranked pretty low in our redzone percentages too.

Bronco Warrior
09-29-2009, 11:47 AM
Might have to call BS on McDaniels. If I recall correctly, he was supposedly making overtures to Dom Capers too.

There was some media speculation that he would land both, but weren't sure who would get the DC position. I'm just glad Capers deceded to go elsewhere. McDaniels gets major props for choosing Nolan!

Bowlen and Nolan have history..and he has been on nolan's speed-dial since he got fired in SF> Ever wonder why Bowlen went against expectations and went offensive with the HC? ..cause he had Nolan ready to go! There has even been speculation that he was who Bowlen wanted to hire that cause the lover's spat between the two. Here's how the shanny meeting went- "You are hiring Nolan" and shanny said No I'm no.......... Huh? I'm fired?"

The first question in the HC interviews "Will you hire Nolan as DC?" And Joshie said "Can I make it look like my idea?"

Bronco Warrior
09-29-2009, 11:55 AM
And for the record...Walsh was the biggest fraud in NFL History and "Bill Walsh invented the 'West Coast Offense" is the great NFL Lie!!
http://www.trojanfootballanalysis.com/wp/wordpress/?p=178

Another fact: Bill Walsh's successful coaches in his tree....like Holmgren,Reid Shannahan, Gruden, Mooch...and the list goes on all came through Holmgren (BYU QB Coach) and/or the HOLGREN Tree. Holmgren, Reid got thier coaching starts at BYU under LaVell Edwards ( the actual inventor of both the West Coast (and the spread!http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaVell_Edwards) Throw in Chow and Billick (Not in Walsh/Holmgren trees) and you have the truth behind the Walsh Myth and who was the true Genius lol!

T.K.O.
09-29-2009, 12:07 PM
We are far worse on offense in the first 3 games. We are far better on defense Thru the first 3 games. Thats all I said. Its proven statistically, and on the scoreboard.

Argue all you want. You cant unprove the fact that we are scoring almost less than 18 points a game less, agains worse teams.

and if we give up 23 fewer points and get 18 fewer....let me get a compulater.:confused:....oh thats a good thing!:D

when orton is taking a knee at the opponents 20 rather than jay scrambling to get last minute points it does bring down the total a bit,the fact is we could have scored more against the raiders and missed several fg's so the point total would be alot closer to last years.not to mention when the d gives up 5.3 points a game you play a completely different style of O,so we have no idea what this team is capable of doing in a "shoot out"
this offense is better than you think they are doing their job,they just dont look so flashy doing it.

drewloc
09-29-2009, 12:24 PM
Its never been about yards. I dont know what your talking about.

We are the 14th ranked in points. Which is worse than I gave us credit for.

Im sure we are ranked pretty low in our redzone percentages too.

You can't argue that we score less, because we do, it's in the writing. That said though, our average margin of victory is 5 points higher than last year, and that to me shows a more complete team. You give a little and take a little. I feel like we have more balance this year, and it is showing. We don't have to score over 30 points to win. We had to last year.

Day1BroncoFan
09-29-2009, 12:45 PM
If you want to talk about the offense based on point production then ask the question of how many points did last years offense give to the opponents by TO's compared to this years offense.

Just sayin... I don't really know but we had a lot of turnovers last year.

claymore
09-29-2009, 12:48 PM
You can't argue that we score less, because we do, it's in the writing. That said though, our average margin of victory is 5 points higher than last year, and that to me shows a more complete team. You give a little and take a little. I feel like we have more balance this year, and it is showing. We don't have to score over 30 points to win. We had to last year.

My original post was "we are half the team on offense, and 5 times the team on defense thru 3 games"

And it got turned into this.

We have imposed our will 2 of the worst teams in the league. Now we get to see if we are good starting Sunday.

Traveler
09-29-2009, 12:49 PM
Bowlen and Nolan have history..and he has been on nolan's speed-dial since he got fired in SF> Ever wonder why Bowlen went against expectations and went offensive with the HC? ..cause he had Nolan ready to go! There has even been speculation that he was who Bowlen wanted to hire that cause the lover's spat between the two. Here's how the shanny meeting went- "You are hiring Nolan" and shanny said No I'm no.......... Huh? I'm fired?"

The first question in the HC interviews "Will you hire Nolan as DC?" And Joshie said "Can I make it look like my idea?"

Everything you said is pure speculation too.

MOtorboat
09-29-2009, 12:50 PM
And for the record...Walsh was the biggest fraud in NFL History and "Bill Walsh invented the 'West Coast Offense" is the great NFL Lie!!
http://www.trojanfootballanalysis.com/wp/wordpress/?p=178

Another fact: Bill Walsh's successful coaches in his tree....like Holmgren,Reid Shannahan, Gruden, Mooch...and the list goes on all came through Holmgren (BYU QB Coach) and/or the HOLGREN Tree. Holmgren, Reid got thier coaching starts at BYU under LaVell Edwards ( the actual inventor of both the West Coast (and the spread!http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaVell_Edwards) Throw in Chow and Billick (Not in Walsh/Holmgren trees) and you have the truth behind the Walsh Myth and who was the true Genius lol!

Besides the fact that I don't know what this has to do with Parcells' coaching tree...there a number of inaccuracies here. I don't have the time to spend showing you all of the inaccuracies, but there are many.

The Spread and the West Coast Offense are two different offenses. The Spread comes from the old Portland State coaches and Jerry Glanville and Walsh was the creator of the West Coast Offense, whether Lavelle Edwards decided to throw it 90 times a game, or whatever...its more of a vertical passing game like the Air Coryell offense, anyway.

Secondly, Shanahan does not come through Edwards in any way. He is a Walsh disciple through Seifert, not through Holmgren. While Holmgren was at BYU, Shanahan was with the Broncos.

Sure, were there some influences from Edwards offense that came into the West Coast through Holmgren? Sure...but that was already 10 years after Walsh won a Super Bowl with the West Coast Offense.

Bronco Warrior
09-29-2009, 01:20 PM
The Spread and the West Coast Offense are two different offenses. The Spread comes from the old Portland State coaches and Jerry Glanville and Walsh was the creator of the West Coast Offense, whether Lavelle Edwards decided to throw it 90 times a game, or whatever...its more of a vertical passing game like the Air Coryell offense, anyway..

I love it when the ignorant make noises! the QB that Walsh has as OC was Virgil Carter from where? BYU..and he copied the BYU offense to try to use Carters skills- FACT! And the west coast is using the short timing passing game to make up for the lack of a running game among other things..why do you think Walsh wanted Young..a BYU QB so badly!


Secondly, Shanahan does not come through Edwards in any way. He is a Walsh disciple through Seifert, not through Holmgren. While Holmgren was at BYU, Shanahan was with the Broncos..
And his next stop was qb coach in SF UNDER Holmgren as OC. And when he came back to Denver he switched Elway to he "West Coast" offense check those facts also!


Sure, were there some influences from Edwards offense that came into the West Coast through Holmgren? Sure...but that was already 10 years after Walsh won a Super Bowl with the West Coast Offense.

Fact BYU started running the offense later know as the West Coast in the early 70's long before Walsh started toying with it in Cinci and then in SF. Get your facts straight!

The old BYU passing game of the 1970’s, 1980’s and 1990’s was a remarkable achievement for its time. Today a 300 or 400+ yard passing game is quite common in college football but 30+ years ago it was exceedingly rare. Back when it was accepted conventional wisdom to run the ball and pass mainly on 3rd down and long BYU stood conventional wisdom on its head and passed the ball on any and all downs regardless of where they were on the field. Just as Bill Walsh was tinkering in the NFL with shorter routes and precision pass plays based upon perfectly timed execution BYU already was doing a version of the same thing in college football.
I decided to throw the football, not just the normal 10 or 15 times a game but 35 to 45 times per game on any down from our own end zone to the opponents end zone. The only success we had ever had at BYU was when Virgil Carter was our quarterback (in the mid 1960’s) and we threw the ball.

The BYU pass offense is based on a timing system. We design the quarterback drops, route depths, and protection schemes so that the quarterback can throw the ball in a specific timed sequence. If the defense and coverage will not allow us to execute our rhythm or timing, then we convert our attack with route adjustments. We want to throw the ball upfield by attacking the vertical seams created by coverage and the horizontal seams created by using our running backs in a flare-flood control concept. By doing this we can still be a ball control offense and take advantage of what the defense is giving us.

We have five basic tenents in our passing game. First, we must protect the quarterback. Second, we want to play ball control football, primarily with the forward pass. Third, it is important to incorporate an effective running game with the passing attack. Fourth, we will take what the defense gives us. Fifth, we as coaches must constantly KISS the offense (Keep It Simple Stupid). — LaVell Edwards, “The Football Coaching Bible“

OWNED! Don't come with out your facts

Bronco Warrior
09-29-2009, 01:23 PM
http://www.trojanfootballanalysis.com/wp/wordpress/?p=178 actually read this articles and then feel the fool as you should!

MOtorboat
09-29-2009, 01:39 PM
And the west coast is using the short timing passing game to make up for the lack of a running game among other things.

You contradict Edward's philosophy quoted in the article with this statement. Just so you know.


And his next stop was qb coach in SF UNDER Holmgren as OC. And when he came back to Denver he switched Elway to he "West Coast" offense check those facts also!

He was hired in Denver, because Reeves wanted to emulate with Elway what Walsh was doing with Montana, WHILE Holmgren coached at BYU and before Holmgren and Shanahan worked together.


Fact BYU started running the offense later know as the West Coast in the early 70's long before Walsh started toying with it in Cinci and then in SF. Get your facts straight!

Once again contradicting your own statements. FYI, Walsh was toying with the West Coast Offense in the 60s. He was in Cincy from 68-75.


We want to throw the ball upfield by attacking the vertical seams created by coverage and the horizontal seams created by using our running backs in a flare-flood control concept. By doing this we can still be a ball control offense and take advantage of what the defense is giving us.

We have five basic tenents in our passing game. First, we must protect the quarterback. Second, we want to play ball control football, primarily with the forward pass. Third, it is important to incorporate an effective running game with the passing attack. Fourth, we will take what the defense gives us. Fifth, we as coaches must constantly KISS the offense (Keep It Simple Stupid). — LaVell Edwards, “The Football Coaching Bible“

Just the part you forgot to read. Much of which is not what is commonly considered the West Coast Offense.

Did Lavelle Edwards develop a potent passing attack at BYU? Yes. Was it the West Coast Offense? No.

MOtorboat
09-29-2009, 01:40 PM
Again...since Parcells and his disciples don't run any semblance of the West Coast Offense at all, we've quickly made this thread about something it was not intended to be about.

For that, I apologize on behalf of Bronco_Warrior.

claymore
09-29-2009, 01:51 PM
Quick someone call me a jackass. :ostrich:

Bronco Warrior
09-29-2009, 02:19 PM
As Coach Edwards indicates the BYU offense actually got its start in the mid 1960’s when LaVell Edwards was offensive coordinator and Virgil Carter was his quarterback. Virgil was the first in a long string of BYU QB’s to set passing records and move onto the NFL. In an amazing twist of fate Virgil Carter was drafted by the Chicago Bears but eventually wound up in Cincinnati with Bill Walsh as his offensive coordinator. Virgil could not throw a very deep ball so Walsh was forced to concentrate on what Virgil could do well - throw shorter timed routes like he had at BYU. Later on at San Francisco Walsh also recruited Mike Holmgren the QB coach at BYU from 1982-85 to join his staff on the 49ers.
Do you actually ever read anything but your own dribble? try actually reading the article before you make more of a fool of your football knowledge. OR Try the Football Bible

Also Walsh was hired in SF in '79 more than ten years after LaVell developed the offense....a nd the article and the FACTS clearly state that Walsh copied what Carter had be in at BYU to form the offense. And Shanahan went from Denver to oakland to Denver to SF As OC Replacing Holmgren at the head of that ffense and then to Denver as HC and brought the West Coast to Denver. Take shanny out of it if you want..you can't deny Holmgren was the only real branch of the Walsh tree and he owes it to Edwards.

Bronco Warrior
09-29-2009, 02:21 PM
It was said that Walsh's tree had had success and I contended it was not walsh but Edwards that cause it!

On that point stick your headf in the sand and deny but you are owned!

MOtorboat
09-29-2009, 02:28 PM
It was said that Walsh's tree had had success and I contended it was not walsh but Edwards that cause it!

On that point stick your headf in the sand and deny but you are owned!

Yes...and we all said...:rolleyes: