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honz
09-28-2009, 12:06 AM
"Denver rookie HC Josh McDaniels doesn't have a grasp on how to build a team." -John Clayton, 4/23/09

"DIVISION FINISH: 4 Face it, the Broncos are a mess. They could be a three- or a four-win team if Kyle Orton struggles, the running game gets off to a slow start and Brandon Marshall continues to pout and be immature. To add to things, the defense that gave up 28 points a game is trying a completely new scheme. Ouch." -John Clayton, 9/6/09

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn156/ammccray/Picture11.png

:laugh:

Kapaibro
09-28-2009, 12:12 AM
well he is right about the 3 wins so far!

Poet
09-28-2009, 12:14 AM
In Clayton's defense....he's the best sportswriter in regards to football and he's almost always right.

FanInAZ
09-28-2009, 12:18 AM
It looks like there is also a good chance of him missing on Cincy and the Jets as well. 3 of the 4 division winners are currently in 2nd place of their respective divisions. 2 of his 4 cellar dweller are among those 3 division leaders. He's being paid how much for these golden nuggets?

sneakers
09-28-2009, 12:18 AM
That reminds me of:

"That's why [they] keep picking number two every year," -Mel Kiper Jr. after the Colts picked Marshall Faulk in the 1994 NFL draft.

(I think he wanted the colts to pick Trent Dilfer instead)

Poet
09-28-2009, 12:24 AM
It looks like there is also a good chance of him missing on Cincy and the Jets as well. 3 of the 4 division winners are currently in 2nd place of their respective divisions. 2 of his 4 cellar dweller are among those 3 division leaders. He's being paid how much for these golden nuggets?

He's being paid a lot of money for being a great reporter who gets a ton of insider information and being a great writer.

I'm not attacking you FIA, I like you as a poster, but think of it this way; how many predictions do these writers have to make? Think of the law of averages for a second. These guys write like minimum 4 articles a week not counting blogs and TV/radio appearances. They can be wrong 20 times a week and still be right most of the time.

Being a sportswriter is a hard job. When you're right it's always "well duh, everyone knew that." When you're wrong it's "well duh, how could you not see it."

Trust me, John Clayton is the golden standard when it comes to the NFL and reporting and journalism in general.

If I was a tenth as good as he is I'd be one of the better sports journalists in the world.

Shazam!
09-28-2009, 12:24 AM
I hardly ever pay any attention to what the 'experts' and 'analysts' have to say. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

G Money and some of our other residents here are as good as any one of those jackasses.

Besides, ESPN has become nauseating to me. Not Clayton particularly though, I used to get a laugh at him and Salisbury jawing at each other.

Poet
09-28-2009, 12:27 AM
I hardly ever pay any attention to what the 'experts' and 'analysts' have to say. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

G Money and some of our other residents here are as good as any one of those jackasses.

Besides, ESPN has become nauseating to me.

Shazam!, I agree.

Most of the TV analysts are jokes. I can tell you that a lot of the writers in newspapers in general use them as examples as what NOT to do.

Now, the writers on ESPN.com are fantastic. The AP writers are fantastic. Those are guys and gals that I try to emulate in my writing.

Guys like Dogfish and G Money are very knowledgeable and are skilled writers. They go off of less information than the "analysts" on ESPN television have and are usually right.

Guys like Mike Ditka and Keyshawn Johnson make me sad. On the other hand, guys like Tom Jackson and Mark Schlereth are very good.

It's a mixed bad. Adam Schefter is a monster, though.

honz
09-28-2009, 12:28 AM
This thread is intended for bashing John Clayton only. Clayton apologists are not welcome in here. You disrespect the Broncos, you shall feel the wrath.

Poet
09-28-2009, 12:29 AM
This thread is intended for bashing John Clayton only. Clayton apologists are not welcome in here. You disrespect the Broncos, you shall feel the wrath.

I'm not a Clayton apologist, I just live in reality. I could point out that at the time of that writing MANY posters here thought Clayton was being liberal with his win prediction.

honz
09-28-2009, 12:35 AM
I'm not a Clayton apologist, I just live in reality. I could point out that at the time of that writing MANY posters here thought Clayton was being liberal with his win prediction.
I'm just messing around. Clayton has always rubbed me the wrong way and listening to him bash and mock Denver all offseason long got quite old after a while...it feels good to see his blind hate get shoved back into his face. He has yet to address the Broncos "surprising" start in any of his columns yet after he couldn't say enough bad about them this offseason.

FanInAZ
09-28-2009, 12:36 AM
Sorry, that last post wasn't done writing that last post when I accidentally sent it.

Poet
09-28-2009, 12:37 AM
I'm just messing around. Clayton has always rubbed me the wrong way and listening to him bash and mock Denver all offseason long got quite old after a while...it feels good to see his blind hate get shoved back into his face. He has yet to address the Broncos "surprising" start in any of his columns yet after he couldn't say enough bad about them this offseason.

I don't think he was trying to knock your team. He's generally a good writer in regards to objectivity.

I won't tell you that you're wrong about him eating crow.

studbucket
09-28-2009, 12:38 AM
If John Clayton is the golden standard, then I don't want any part of the standard.

I haven't like him for years. He's a beat reporter from Seattle masquerading as someone who can analyze and break down football games. He just simply doesn't give any good analysis, predictions, or prognostications.

He can report, that's why he got his job, and that's what he should keep doing. He's only made himself look less and less intelligent every year and by the "cryptkeeper" and other comments from his colleagues, it's obvious he isn't real well respected.

FanInAZ
09-28-2009, 12:38 AM
Maybe it didn't send after all. I hate the fact that I can't turn off this touch pad on my new laptop. It causes me a lot of problems.

Northman
09-28-2009, 12:39 AM
In Clayton's defense....he's the best sportswriter in regards to football and he's almost always right.


He is good but Berman is better. He said it best when he states "thats why they play the game".

I understand Clayton's scepticism though. Most of the country felt or still feels the same way. Either way, im glad so far they are wrong.

honz
09-28-2009, 12:40 AM
I've never been able to get past that smug little smirk he always has on his face.

Shazam!
09-28-2009, 12:40 AM
has always rubbed me the wrong way and listening to him bash and mock Denver all offseason long got quite old after a while...

Kind of like some of the 'Broncos fans' here all offseason long who thus far have been dead wrong. Reading about our Coach all day being called McDumbass and McDouchebag and how he had a master plan to destroy the Denver Broncos got really old.

Poet
09-28-2009, 12:43 AM
If John Clayton is the golden standard, then I don't want any part of the standard.

I haven't like him for years. He's a beat reporter from Seattle masquerading as someone who can analyze and break down football games. He just simply doesn't give any good analysis, predictions, or prognostications.

He can report, that's why he got his job, and that's what he should keep doing. He's only made himself look less and less intelligent every year and by the "cryptkeeper" and other comments from his colleagues, it's obvious he isn't real well respected.

Ironically I've found that his predictions and break downs are almost always right.

I remember him always being on the money in regards to the ENTIRE mike vick situation. I recall him being very good at that playoff scene and the division winner scene.

The guy is a monster. The cryptkeeper remark is in jest about his..sickly appearance. Yeah, he looks old as ****. But he's usually right.

FanInAZ
09-28-2009, 01:14 AM
He's being paid a lot of money for being a great reporter who gets a ton of insider information and being a great writer.

I'm not attacking you FIA, I like you as a poster, but think of it this way; how many predictions do these writers have to make? Think of the law of averages for a second. These guys write like minimum 4 articles a week not counting blogs and TV/radio appearances. They can be wrong 20 times a week and still be right most of the time.

Being a sportswriter is a hard job. When you're right it's always "well duh, everyone knew that." When you're wrong it's "well duh, how could you not see it."

Trust me, John Clayton is the golden standard when it comes to the NFL and reporting and journalism in general.

If I was a tenth as good as he is I'd be one of the better sports journalists in the world.

I just got done checking the "Historical Player" database @ NFL.com I couldn't find John Clayton's name in there. So apparently, he has no actual football experience. The only apparent qualification that he had when applying for the job. He went to journalism classes. Is ability to get the inside scope is the result of his press pass, not his knowledge of the game.

Maybe its a personal issue that I've had as a security officer having all knowing collage educated geniuses telling me how to do a job that they've never done themselves. The post orders many of them come up with are as ridiculous as the questions that many journalism school trained locker-room reporters come up with. The kind of post orders that are drawn up by an actual security professional are as different are easily distinguishable from those of the all knowing collage educated geniuses. In the same manner, the predictions and questions asked by a former players and/or coaches are easily distinguishable from those of the journalism student. No one is perfect, but I put much more stock in the insight of those who have actually played and/or coached the game. Their inside information is the kind they can't teach in schools.

As far as me as a rank and file fan, I realize that I don't have the in side understanding that former players and/or coaches have. That is why I wait to see how the results before throwing them under the bus. Example, I'm very critical of owners like Al Davis, Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder because they have all spent many years establishing reputations of being 2 bit tyrants. Coach McD on the other hand had no such track record. He did thing that were very unorthodox that had me very concerned. However, I gave him the benefit of the doubt and will continue to do so unless the actual result of his decisions leave no doubt. This also seems to be the position that most former players and/or coaches take as well. To bad they don't teach that in journalism school.

silkamilkamonico
09-28-2009, 01:21 AM
He can report, that's why he got his job, and that's what he should keep doing. He's only made himself look less and less intelligent every year and by the "cryptkeeper" and other comments from his colleagues, it's obvious he isn't real well respected.

The cryptkeeper comment came from Sean Saulsbury, who was fired, and who was least respected by all of his piers, and who actually sent a cell phone pick of his ---- to a coed btw.

Clayton is arguably the most respected, and most well rounded reporter out there. And he is almost always right. Unfortunately for his opinion on Denver, he was wrong. It happens.

broncophan
09-28-2009, 06:00 AM
"Denver rookie HC Josh McDaniels doesn't have a grasp on how to build a team." -John Clayton, 4/23/09

"DIVISION FINISH: 4 Face it, the Broncos are a mess. They could be a three- or a four-win team if Kyle Orton struggles, the running game gets off to a slow start and Brandon Marshall continues to pout and be immature. To add to things, the defense that gave up 28 points a game is trying a completely new scheme. Ouch." -John Clayton, 9/6/09

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn156/ammccray/Picture11.png

:laugh:

He still may not be that far off......looking at our remaining schedule.....:confused:

Dirk
09-28-2009, 06:27 AM
"Denver rookie HC Josh McDaniels doesn't have a grasp on how to build a team." -John Clayton, 4/23/09

"DIVISION FINISH: 4 Face it, the Broncos are a mess. They could be a three- or a four-win team if Kyle Orton struggles, the running game gets off to a slow start and Brandon Marshall continues to pout and be immature. To add to things, the defense that gave up 28 points a game is trying a completely new scheme. Ouch." -John Clayton, 9/6/09

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn156/ammccray/Picture11.png

:laugh:

Well a lot of so called experts wrote the Broncos off this year. Here's to egg on their face! :beer:

Dirk
09-28-2009, 06:28 AM
Maybe it didn't send after all. I hate the fact that I can't turn off this touch pad on my new laptop. It causes me a lot of problems.

I'm not sure what type of laptop you have, but usually you can go to the manufacturers website and download the touchpad software which will allow you to turn it off. That is what I do when I get a new Dell laptop for work.

I hate the touch pad!

gregbroncs
09-28-2009, 07:34 AM
I'm not sure what type of laptop you have, but usually you can go to the manufacturers website and download the touchpad software which will allow you to turn it off. That is what I do when I get a new Dell laptop for work.

I hate the touch pad!Or on mine I was able to turn the sensitivity so low that it might as well be off. You pretty much can't move the mouse with it anymore.

Tned
09-28-2009, 07:58 AM
He is good but Berman is better. He said it best when he states "thats why they play the game".

I understand Clayton's scepticism though. Most of the country felt or still feels the same way. Either way, im glad so far they are wrong.

When ESPN did their round table a few days before the season started, that had Scheffter, Clayton, Mortensen and someone I am drawing a blank on, Clayton stuck to his three win prediction, with the Broncos being the worst in the west with KC and Oak being good for about 4 wins.

However, the other three, all said something to the effect "Broncos could surprise some people. They all were saying the Broncos could be somewhere around .500. Likely not make the playoffs, but would surprise many people who think the Broncos were going to be a real bad team.

studbucket
09-28-2009, 08:23 AM
I guess I'll just have to agree to disagree with some of you.

I haven't read a Clayton article in 3-4 years, and every time he has come on ESPN to talk about something, I change the channel.

I didn't start hating after this article, I haven't thought Clayton brought anything to ESPN for several years.

Thnikkaman
09-28-2009, 09:18 AM
King, do you admire Clayton's writing style or his actual analysis? As an analyst, Clayton does about as good a job of predicting football as I do predicting powerball numbers. He has his job because his articles are easy to read, and tend to go with the current trends of the NFL. He tends to not offer anything ground breaking.

If Bill Simmons wanted Clayton's job, he could have it easily.

CoachChaz
09-28-2009, 09:24 AM
Well, if we ONLY win the remaining games that we "should" win (OAK, KC twice, WAS)...we'll have 6 wins. That's about where most of us that are realists projected it. But surely we can steal another one or two from the "other" guys. 8-8 isnt a ridiculous notion

Thnikkaman
09-28-2009, 09:27 AM
Well, if we ONLY win the remaining games that we "should" win (OAK, KC twice, WAS)...we'll have 6 wins. That's about where most of us that are realists projected it. But surely we can steal another one or two from the "other" guys. 8-8 isnt a ridiculous notion

Coach, I trust your analysis more than John Clayton. Where do you see us really?

studbucket
09-28-2009, 09:53 AM
Well, if we ONLY win the remaining games that we "should" win (OAK, KC twice, WAS)...we'll have 6 wins. That's about where most of us that are realists projected it. But surely we can steal another one or two from the "other" guys. 8-8 isnt a ridiculous notion

8-8 is what I've been feeling from this team all along. I never expected us to win the division, but all of the doom and gloom about a top 5 or 10 pick had me really frustrated.

Tned
09-28-2009, 10:02 AM
Well, if we ONLY win the remaining games that we "should" win (OAK, KC twice, WAS)...we'll have 6 wins. That's about where most of us that are realists projected it. But surely we can steal another one or two from the "other" guys. 8-8 isnt a ridiculous notion

Early in training camp, when I did the game-by-game projection, I came up with a 3-0 start, but 7-9 finish.

That was mostly based on the perceived strength of the opponent based on last year. Now, teams like Washington, don't look anywhere near as strong, and the Broncos 'appear' to be much better than expected. Hence the problem with doing projections so early -- especially on a team with a new coaching staff and schemes and 50% roster turnover and nearly that turnover in starting players.

Now, that prediction aside, I didn't really know what to expect, and figured a lot depended on our schedule. If the NFC East + AFC North + Indy + New England all turned out to be as tough as they 'could' be, the Broncos could play well, and win 4-6 games (hard to imagine them winning less than 4 with some of the weak teams on the schedule). On the other hand, how often does a schedule turn out to be as hard or easy as it looks on paper when the schedules are released? Look at Miami: from crap to division winner to 0-3 start.

So, I saw this team as capable of winning anywhere from 4-10 games (based on the schedule), with the number probably somewhere in the middle of that range -- 6-8.

Now, I am very excited with what I have seen, so it is hard for my mind to not go to 10-12 wins right now. However, CLE and OAK suck, and Palmer was rust after not playing much or at all in preseason, so it is really hard to know what we really have. That said, our defense really looks like they are for real. Now, will the big plays and defensive turnovers continue? Hopefully, yes, as Nolan's teams are known for that.

If you look at the remaining schedule, Dallas, NE, Pitt, Bal, Giants, Indy and Philly will all be VERY tough games. Even when these teams struggle (as NE, Pitt and Dallas have done) they are tough teams. While Washington is 0-3, they may very well have the ship righted by week 10. San Diego? They have looked good and bad, but they typically get up for us.

So, the Broncos should beat KC x 2, Oak and Washington, hopefully win at least one of the next two home games, lets say splits with SD, odds are lose to Ind, Philly and Bal at home (all tough teams and tough at home)

That would put us at 9 wins. If we split the other two games in Denver (Pit and NYG), then we would be up to 10 wins. Splitting those games will be no mean feat, but I would say it looks 'possible' right now (assuming the Broncos look like they are for real over the next two weeks).

So, IMO, at this point, seeing the Broncos get to the 9-10 game range looks possible, with 7 or 8 wins probably.

MasterShake
09-28-2009, 10:17 AM
Who cares? A lot of writers have Baltimore in their top 5 even we are both 3-0 under similar circumstances. We both blow the Browns out of the water, but when Baltimore does it its "IMPRESSIVE". When we did it, well, we should have beaten an "EASY TEAM".

The Ravens and the Broncos both beat pretty horrible teams from the AFC West (The Chiefs and Raiders Respectively), and IMO we both beat teams that are actually pretty good (San Diego and Cincinnati).

The difference that these so called "experts" seem to forget is that 52% of the Broncos roster is brand new. We lost franchise caliber QB and installed a whole new defensive scheme. Compare that to a pretty similar team that they had last year in the Ravens and the Broncos are just that much more impressive. Not only that, our new D is making the vaunted Baltimore defense look like a pop warner team so far.

I know Denver is beginning a brutal stretch (in what I think doesn't look so bad anymore since NE, SD, and DAL have shown chinks in their armor) and they have a lot to prove to the media, but they are already blowing my expectations out of the water. If they can keep up the intensity on defense and the offense keeps improving, I see no reason not to be 5-1 by the bye week.

We may not be the most talented team in the AFC right now, but we are playing with the most confidence. Well, when no one is expecting you to win but dismisses it when you do, who wouldn't be confident? I hope teams and the media keeps ignoring us as we quietly have a great season. Or at least a better than expected season. :salute:

WARHORSE
09-28-2009, 10:51 AM
in clayton's defense....he's the best sportswriter in regards to football and he's almost always right.


wrong.

honz
09-28-2009, 11:19 AM
8-8 is what I've been feeling from this team all along. I never expected us to win the division, but all of the doom and gloom about a top 5 or 10 pick had me really frustrated.

You mean a Seahawks top 5 pick? ;)

studbucket
09-28-2009, 11:23 AM
You mean a Seahawks top 5 pick? ;)

Yep, specifically that. How were were "giving up" such a good pick.

pnbronco
09-28-2009, 12:28 PM
Who cares? A lot of writers have Baltimore in their top 5 even we are both 3-0 under similar circumstances. We both blow the Browns out of the water, but when Baltimore does it its "IMPRESSIVE". When we did it, well, we should have beaten an "EASY TEAM".

The Ravens and the Broncos both beat pretty horrible teams from the AFC West (The Chiefs and Raiders Respectively), and IMO we both beat teams that are actually pretty good (San Diego and Cincinnati).

The difference that these so called "experts" seem to forget is that 52% of the Broncos roster is brand new. We lost franchise caliber QB and installed a whole new defensive scheme. Compare that to a pretty similar team that they had last year in the Ravens and the Broncos are just that much more impressive. Not only that, our new D is making the vaunted Baltimore defense look like a pop warner team so far.

I know Denver is beginning a brutal stretch (in what I think doesn't look so bad anymore since NE, SD, and DAL have shown chinks in their armor) and they have a lot to prove to the media, but they are already blowing my expectations out of the water. If they can keep up the intensity on defense and the offense keeps improving, I see no reason not to be 5-1 by the bye week.

We may not be the most talented team in the AFC right now, but we are playing with the most confidence. Well, when no one is expecting you to win but dismisses it when you do, who wouldn't be confident? I hope teams and the media keeps ignoring us as we quietly have a great season. Or at least a better than expected season. :salute:

What he said, well put MS.....:salute:

I really liked the part where you talked about beating the Browns, you're so right about the double standard. I had the season at 6-10 and I so hope that I'm wrong. It's great to see them get better each week, but who knows how it will all play out, as they say that's why they play these games. I just hope other teams see us like as the team to overlook.

Give me G and Kaylore any day of the week over those "paid never played the game or coached experts". Totally understand where you are coming from AZ, been there often myself.

Poet
09-28-2009, 12:34 PM
wrong.

Your awesome reasoning skills leaves me speechless.

Bronco Warrior
09-28-2009, 11:30 PM
In Clayton's defense....he's the best sportswriter in regards to football and he's almost always right.

So retarded a statement I can't even type! Clayton is less accurate than a blind man at a skeet shoot! Child Please!


He's being paid a lot of money for being a great reporter who gets a ton of insider information and being a great writer.

Trust me, John Clayton is the golden standard when it comes to the NFL and reporting and journalism in general..

Clayton is the Golden Shower standard more like it!

If I was a tenth as good as he is I'd be one of the better sports journalists in the world.

Don't worry at this rate you will be a tenth as good!


Now, the writers on ESPN.com are fantastic. The AP writers are fantastic. Those are guys and gals that I try to emulate in my writing.


That is obvious lol! Getting your football info from ESPN is like getting nutritional information from Chuck E. Cheese! Even Shefter has turn into a little Turd!