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Poet
09-26-2009, 12:48 AM
http://profootball.scout.com/2/902979.html


"Russell's league-worst 35.2% completion rate is pathetic. All other 31 starters have completed at least 50% of their throws. The Raiders need to trade for Arizona's Matt Leinart, Miami's Chad Henne or one of the Vikings or Eagles backups to salvage their season."

This guy is literally one of the worst starting quarterbacks in the NFL. His contract is huge, but not as huge as his gut. My god, look at his completion percetange.
I feel bad for the guy because as far as I can tell he's classy and handled the fame of that win over ND which caused his draft stock to sky rocket. That being said he was only drafted so high because of that one single game.

Oakland, believe me when I tell you this, your franchise is in the shitter for at least 4 more years.

FanInAZ
09-26-2009, 01:07 AM
:D Your "friend" isn't going to be happy with you dissing his "greatest QB ever." :D

Poet
09-26-2009, 01:13 AM
:D Your "friend" isn't going to be happy with you dissing his "greatest QB ever." :D

Russell is the greatest overpaid, overweight, overrated, and overcelebrated player in the game. The fact that ANYONE celebrates him in a positive light is sad.

Reidman
09-26-2009, 03:13 AM
Watch him have a career day against us...happens every time..

shank
09-26-2009, 04:50 AM
Watch him have a career day against us...happens every time..

**** you. i'm hoping that, given the context, that comment won't be against eh COC. we are a new team in 09 reidman :salute:

;)

Northman
09-26-2009, 12:53 PM
Considering Brady Quinn and Palmer are better Qb's than Russell i think we will be ok. Its the Faider D im worried about.

topscribe
09-26-2009, 01:29 PM
Watch him have a career day against us...happens every time..

It used to seem that way, for sure. But, considering the Raiders' porous O-line
and the Broncos' veteran secondary, I don't expect the Raiders to do too much.

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Dreadnought
09-26-2009, 02:59 PM
It used to seem that way, for sure. But, considering the Raiders' porous O-line
and the Broncos' veteran secondary, I don't expect the Raiders to do too much.

-----

That second game last year was more an indictment of bob Slowick and our safeties than an endorsement of JaMarcus Russell, as in "Yes, Slowick can make even this stiff look like a pro football player."

Poet
09-26-2009, 03:45 PM
That second game last year was more an indictment of bob Slowick and our safeties than an endorsement of JaMarcus Russell, as in "Yes, Slowick can make even this stiff look like a pro football player."

I think floppy would have been a better choice of words.:D

Dreadnought
09-27-2009, 06:27 PM
JaMarcus did not disappoint. He is the worst, bar none. Thank the Lord, and I hope the Raiders keep trying to work this project for years to come

Dirk
09-27-2009, 06:28 PM
Wow....JR is terrible....nuff said.

Devilspawn
09-27-2009, 06:38 PM
He sucks. I never said he was good but I'm not using the lack of receiving threats anymore.

Poet
09-27-2009, 06:46 PM
He sucks. I never said he was good but I'm not using the lack of receiving threats anymore.

He is really bad. But McFadden will be one of the best RBs in the game soon. I'd bet money on that.

Devilspawn
09-27-2009, 06:57 PM
He is really bad. But McFadden will be one of the best RBs in the game soon. I'd bet money on that.
We have pieces.

Louis Murphy and Chaz Schillens can be a nice combo.

Zach Miller is the truth.

Bush and McFadden are a nice change of pace duo.

It's that Al Davis gameplan. I saw Chad Pennington pick apart the Chargers secondary today. Boring? Yes. Results? Yes.

No comment on Heyward Bey. I saw that nice tackle Patrick Swayze had on him prior to the pick!! He's not even half of what James Jett was.

The best thing is that all of them are young, so there's time (aside from Russell). I made a comment to a friend of mine who's an Eagles fan, that I wouldn't be surprised if McNabb is here soon. We did it with Marinovich to Hoss.

Poet
09-27-2009, 06:59 PM
At least you dodged the Crabtree bullet. DHB will probably just suck but he is a decent guy. Crabtree is a TO personality with no results.

McFadden is going to be a top three RB in my opinion. Bush is a good RB and I often think that he could be a player who you use to make a trade.

You have pieces, you're not THAT far off, it's really Davis that is killing your team.

JaMarcus Russell is really bad though. He truly reminds me of Akili Smith. I'm not trying to be mean, I actually like him as a player.

EMB6903
09-27-2009, 07:03 PM
Raiders not only passed on Crabtree while taking DHB they passed up on a very explosive player in Percy Harvin who has been playing great while in Minnesota.

and I dont know what you see in Mcfadden, maybe youre still caught up in his college days but he has done absolutely nothing to show me hes cabable of becoming a top 3 or even top 10 RB in this league.

I see a high runner who has fumble issues when watching Darren Mcfadden play.

ursamajor
09-27-2009, 07:15 PM
Raiders not only passed on Crabtree while taking DHB they passed up on a very explosive player in Percy Harvin who has been playing great while in Minnesota.

It doesn't matter who the Raiders drafted @ Wideout. Look at who would be "throwing" them the ball.

Day1BroncoFan
09-27-2009, 07:17 PM
JaMarcan't is probably OK as a person but he sucks as a QB.

frauschieze
09-27-2009, 07:17 PM
I still giggle every time someone calls him a quarterfat. :lol:

Poet
09-27-2009, 07:44 PM
Raiders not only passed on Crabtree while taking DHB they passed up on a very explosive player in Percy Harvin who has been playing great while in Minnesota.

and I dont know what you see in Mcfadden, maybe youre still caught up in his college days but he has done absolutely nothing to show me hes cabable of becoming a top 3 or even top 10 RB in this league.

I see a high runner who has fumble issues when watching Darren Mcfadden play.

I see a guy who knows he has to carry his team who makes great cuts and moves. Trust me, he has his issues but he's a hoss.

dogfish
09-28-2009, 01:33 AM
and I dont know what you see in Mcfadden, maybe youre still caught up in his college days but he has done absolutely nothing to show me hes cabable of becoming a top 3 or even top 10 RB in this league.

I see a high runner who has fumble issues when watching Darren Mcfadden play.

yea, i don't know where king's coming from on this one. . . his 3.6 YPC and 1 TD to 4 fumbles so far this year aren't exactly dominating stats. . . . to this point, he hasn't shown that he can be a top fifteen back in the NFL, let alone top three. . . . in 16 NFL games, he's gone over 50 yards twice! so he's fast, big deal. . . .

Dirk
09-28-2009, 07:26 AM
At this point, they might as well put the back ups in and see how they do. They couldn't be any worse.

Sorry Spawn, but until they give up on Russell you are going to have lonnnnnnnnnng seasons.

EMB6903
09-28-2009, 06:40 PM
I see a guy who knows he has to carry his team who makes great cuts and moves. Trust me, he has his issues but he's a hoss.

He makes great cuts and moves? so does Reggie Bush.... Mcfadden hasnt proven he can run in between the tackles nor become a 3 down back in this league yet... how many break out games has he had so far? 2?

as far as production goes running backs like Chris Johnson, Matt Forte, Steve Slaton, Johnathon Stewart, and Felix Jones all have out played Mcfadden, and all were selected after.

Trust me... the Raiders have no future.

Reidman
09-28-2009, 06:47 PM
Watch him have a career day against us...happens every time..

Wow, guess I couldn't have been further off the mark..(no pun :D)

61yds...are you kidding me..!?

Poet
09-28-2009, 07:29 PM
He makes great cuts and moves? so does Reggie Bush.... Mcfadden hasnt proven he can run in between the tackles nor become a 3 down back in this league yet... how many break out games has he had so far? 2?

as far as production goes running backs like Chris Johnson, Matt Forte, Steve Slaton, Johnathon Stewart, and Felix Jones all have out played Mcfadden, and all were selected after.

Trust me... the Raiders have no future.

The comparison between him and Bush isn't really fair and you know that. He can run through the tackles, he's shown that he can if you count game last season.


Also, just because they are better now doesn't mean that they will be better backs later. Joseph Addai was at one point a better back than Maurice Jones Drew.

http://www.nfl.com/players/darrenmcfadden/profile?id=MCF084974

Please tell me how his production is bad.

Here's Steve Slaton's production. http://www.nfl.com/players/search?filter=steve+slaton&category=name&playerType=current

http://www.nfl.com/players/jonathanstewart/profile?id=STE770966 Nice YPC, too bad it doesn't mean much with 20 carries.

Here's Forte's stellar production.

http://www.nfl.com/players/mattforte/profile?id=FOR645404

Yeah, Chris Johnson is better so far.

And please spare me about Felix Jones. He's had all of 43 career carries.

McFadden will be fine.

shank
09-28-2009, 07:46 PM
i'll give you this, king; mcfadden is a better quarterback than russel, that we can be sure of.

Dreadnought
09-28-2009, 09:07 PM
i'll give you this, king; mcfadden is a better quarterback than russel, that we can be sure of.

Thats setting the bar pretty low. I think the Raiders would be taking a positive step bringing back Todd Marinovich if/when he's finished dealing with his recent meth bust. Or they could call Cleo Lemon

Poet
09-28-2009, 09:13 PM
Thats setting the bar pretty low. I think the Raiders would be taking a positive step bringing back Todd Marinovich if/when he's finished dealing with his recent meth bust. Or they could call Cleo Lemon

Tavaris Jackson wouldn't even play for the Raiders.

Dreadnought
09-28-2009, 09:48 PM
Tavaris Jackson wouldn't even play for the Raiders.

A man's gotta have his pride. Without that he is nothing.

Poet
09-28-2009, 09:53 PM
A man's gotta have his pride. Without that he is nothing.

Besides, at least Jackson has some hope for being a converted special teams player. I guess they could use JaMarcus as a....

Uh....surely they could....

Erm.....

Cough.....

Wow....

He's THAT bad!

WOW!

HE'S THAT BAD!

CrazyHorse
09-28-2009, 10:00 PM
I bet Russell has a Stronger Arm than Elway...

Poet
09-28-2009, 10:24 PM
I bet Russell has a Stronger Arm than Elway...

I can think of like maybe 5 guys who I could believe had close to his strength.

Jay Cutler obv! :lol:

ursamajor
09-29-2009, 02:40 AM
Boller has a stronger arm than Russell

Overtime
09-29-2009, 12:27 PM
Boller has a stronger arm than Russell


I'll make it official.

RYAN LEAF is better than JeMarshmallow Russell.

FanInAZ
09-29-2009, 12:31 PM
I'll make it official.

RYAN LEAF is better than JeMarshmallow Russell.

Which of those two should feel more insulted to be mentioned in the same sentence as the other?

Day1BroncoFan
09-29-2009, 12:33 PM
Can anyone name a QB that isn't better than JaMarcan't?

I think not.

:pound:

Poet
09-29-2009, 12:36 PM
Which of those two should feel more insulted to be mentioned in the same sentence as the other?

JaMarcus. At least he isn't a terrible human being.

topscribe
09-29-2009, 01:20 PM
JaMarcus. At least he isn't a terrible human being.

Well said . . .

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EMB6903
09-29-2009, 01:43 PM
The comparison between him and Bush isn't really fair and you know that. He can run through the tackles, he's shown that he can if you count game last season.


Also, just because they are better now doesn't mean that they will be better backs later. Joseph Addai was at one point a better back than Maurice Jones Drew.

http://www.nfl.com/players/darrenmcfadden/profile?id=MCF084974

Please tell me how his production is bad.

Here's Steve Slaton's production. http://www.nfl.com/players/search?filter=steve+slaton&category=name&playerType=current

http://www.nfl.com/players/jonathanstewart/profile?id=STE770966 Nice YPC, too bad it doesn't mean much with 20 carries.

Here's Forte's stellar production.

http://www.nfl.com/players/mattforte/profile?id=FOR645404

Yeah, Chris Johnson is better so far.

And please spare me about Felix Jones. He's had all of 43 career carries.

McFadden will be fine.


You are basing Slaton and Fortes numbers based on 3 games this year or their ENTIRE career? if so that is retarded and a reach.

Slaton had 1000+ yards last year in limited action, and wasnt Forte among the top 5 in overall yards from scrimmage last year?

WHAT HAS MCFADDEN DONE?

not close to what these 2 have accomplished in this league

so as of right now even as bad as Slaton is playing this year...

Slaton~~~~>Mcfadden

Forte~~~~> Mcfadden

Stewart~~~~>Mcfadden

Chris Johnson~~> Mcfadden

the only 1 that is even an argument is Felix Jones but only because he hasnt had that many reps in this league yet... But its obvious who has shown to be the more explosive player when they get the ball

Felix has looked MUCH better then Mcfadden

my opinion isnt going to change over 3 games, esspecially when both were so good a season ago while Mcfadden was still getting "adjusted"

EMB6903
09-29-2009, 01:46 PM
I'll make it official.

RYAN LEAF is better than JeMarshmallow Russell.

Actually Ryan Leaf was more talented then a lot of "1st round busts"

talent wasnt the problem with Leaf, it was his pissy/sensitive attitude.

Overtime
09-29-2009, 03:03 PM
Which of those two should feel more insulted to be mentioned in the same sentence as the other?

Ryan Leaf should feel more insulted, because Leaf had talent. his problem was his attitude and his me me me selishness and lack of maturity.


Actually Ryan Leaf was more talented then a lot of "1st round busts"

talent wasnt the problem with Leaf, it was his pissy/sensitive attitude.

yep. JeMarshmallow is just a big dumb bonehead who found an owner dumb enough to con an entire coaching staff into drafting his sorry ass, and paying him megamillions to put up the worst qb #'s of any pro qb to ever play at least 16 games.

Leaf was just a schnoz bag with a temper, and no ability to harness his behavior and allow his talent to do all the talking on the field.

Simple Jaded
09-29-2009, 06:38 PM
Long Live JaMarcus Russell.......Long Live Al Davis. Heres to these two having GaySex and somehow producing future Raider QB's and GM's. :beer:.......

Poet
09-29-2009, 07:18 PM
You are basing Slaton and Fortes numbers based on 3 games this year or their ENTIRE career? if so that is retarded and a reach.

Slaton had 1000+ yards last year in limited action, and wasnt Forte among the top 5 in overall yards from scrimmage last year?

WHAT HAS MCFADDEN DONE?

not close to what these 2 have accomplished in this league

so as of right now even as bad as Slaton is playing this year...

Slaton~~~~>Mcfadden

Forte~~~~> Mcfadden

Stewart~~~~>Mcfadden

Chris Johnson~~> Mcfadden

the only 1 that is even an argument is Felix Jones but only because he hasnt had that many reps in this league yet... But its obvious who has shown to be the more explosive player when they get the ball

Felix has looked MUCH better then Mcfadden

my opinion isnt going to change over 3 games, esspecially when both were so good a season ago while Mcfadden was still getting "adjusted"

Hold on, your first line of argument defeats your entire argument. You go on and on about how they outpeformed McFadden...but they are still young in their careers.

You're a homer whose bias blinds him. They were better than he was last year and are currently worse than he is. Sorry, just because he wears the silver and black doesn't mean he blows, it just means that you're the Denver Broncos version of Oakland Raider.

EMB6903
09-29-2009, 08:18 PM
Hold on, your first line of argument defeats your entire argument. You go on and on about how they outpeformed McFadden...but they are still young in their careers.

You're a homer whose bias blinds him. They were better than he was last year and are currently worse than he is. Sorry, just because he wears the silver and black doesn't mean he blows, it just means that you're the Denver Broncos version of Oakland Raider.

currently worse? says who? You are going to try and tell me Matt Forte is currently worse then Darren Mcfadden because of 3 weeks? is Matt schaub a better QB currently then Tom Brady over 3 weeks? how about Kurt Warner? Big Ben? Mcfadden has fumbled 4 times this year while losing it twice, Forte, Slaton or Stewart havent done much this year but dont try and say that Mcfadden is currently better like hes done anything special this year... Hes done SQUAT.

But Im not stupid enough to base my judgement on 3 games.. esspecially the first 3 of the season.


you should know you can certainly tell a lot more in a overall season then 3 weeks.

here comes the homer insults because thats all you have, you cant pull up game logs of Mcfadden to prove me wrong, all you have is Im a homer and "mcfadden makes great cuts" LOL, How is his blitz pick up? patience? ball security? durability? how does he run between the tackles, Or how is he inside the 20, how is his YAC?


He does make great cuts though..


Mcfadden has fumbled the rock 4 times this year, 2 fumbles have been lost.... In the 16 games that hes played in hes only posted 1 100+ yard game... while having only 2 games where he rushed over 50 yards.

Darren Mcfadden= 16 games, 154 carries, 4.2 yards per carry 647 yards rushing, 5 touchdowns, 35 receptions, 333 yards recieving, 7 fumbles, 4 lost.

Johnathon Stewart= 207 carries, 4.5 yards per carry, 935 yards rushing, 10 touchdowns, 15 receptions, 115 yards receiving, 3 fumbles, 1 lost.

Matt Forte= 375 carries, 1388 yards rushing, 3.7 yards per carry, 12 touchdowns, 74 receptions, 550 yards, 2 fumbles, 1 lost.

Steve Slaton= 306 carries, 1400 yards rushing, 4.6 yards per carry, 10 touchdowns, 9 receptions, 99 yards, 6 fumbles, 3 lost.

Chris Johnson= no need to post his stats

Felix Jones= 51 carries, 478 yards rushing, 9.4 average, 5 touchdowns, 3 receptions, 30 yards, 0 fumbles lost..... Felix almost has the same ammount of rush yards as Mcfadden in 100 less attempts.... LOL

Its obvious whose statistics are among the worst in this group... having posted the worst rushing numbers along with the most turnovers.

Like I said earlier, Im no homer and Im far from being one. I picked Denver to finish 5-11... just because I dislike a player doesnt mean I dont recognize how good they are, Ive said it before and I will say it again, Nnamdi is clearly the best Cornerback in the league, that isnt even an argument, Hes also a top overall player in this league,.. I just dont think Mcfadden is any good... and I dont need to hear ESPN announce it before I believe it... sure he was good in college and was a great college prospect coming out... But that means jack shit right now and thats what you need to realize, it doesnt take years for RB's to get adjusted in this league, they should be instant impacts and Mcfadden has yet to become an impact... look at his statistics, hes done NOTHING in this league, as of right now there are 4 RB's in his class alone that have had more productive careers then he has.


Micheal Bush is the better RB of the two and the one that should be starting.


Since Im a clueless homer I would love for you to tell me WHY Mcfadden is so good? why is he going to be a top 3 back in this league?

what I see in Mcfadden while watching him play?

extremely explosive, good reciever out of the backfield, a nightmare to stop in open field, mediocre blocker at best, High Runner, stiff hips, not a 3 down back, no patience, dances at the LOS, tries to bounce it outside way too much, it worked in college.. not in the pro's.... now lets see why you think hes such a special talent?

Bronco Warrior
09-29-2009, 08:37 PM
At least you dodged the Crabtree bullet. DHB will probably just suck but he is a decent guy.

You realize that if Crabtree went to Oakland then he would had the slot for the money Crabtree wants and with Al Davis there would have been no dispute. and Crabtree has 5 times the resume on the field as DHB..that's part of the problem.

And have you met Crabtree or Darius Heyward Bust? How do you know they are or are not nice guys? Crabtree has some bad info or his holdout would be over.
I can see that Clayton influence showing through..nice job!

Bronco Warrior
09-29-2009, 08:42 PM
a nightmare to stop in open field....

Dhttp://www.broncosforums.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=104&pictureid=862awkins thinks...Not so much!

Poet
09-29-2009, 11:26 PM
EMB, you're killing me. McFadden had a good rookie year and is currently playing better than most of guys you said are better than he is. Basically he is currently superior to most of those players, so if he sucks then most of those guys suck too. But it's ok.

McFadden runs a tad bit high. So does Adrian Peterson. Hell, they said the same thing about Walter Payton. McFadden has great speed and his power is really underrated. Is his blocking great? No. Is it passable? Yes. His vision is good and I don't think he dances too much. I htink that his offensive line blows. I've seen him hit the hole with authority plenty of times.

And there have been plenty of RBs who fumble the ball a lot who have or had great success. Adrian Peterson fumbles a lot. So did Tiki Barber. Willie Parker has had a good career and he has fumblitis. It's a correctable problem.

OH and Warrior, you're killing me. Michael Crabtree is a piece of crap. He was asked to leave Cleveland when he visited there because of his bad attitude and his primma donna character. If you ever watch an interview of his you'll see that he is arrogant and lacks class.

I have yet to hear anything negative about DHB, and he conducts himself like a pro. He doesn't have a past with the law or anything like that and coming into the draft I kept reading positive things about him as a player, a teammate, and a person.

As far as that John Clayton thing goes, that thread was hysterical. At the time Clayton read that most of Bronco Nation agreed with him. Now I see so many people who were in the "THE SKY IS FALLING OMG12!!!1" camp bagging on him. I disagreed with him but his reasoning is always sound. He's a great reporter, a great writer, and he's correct more often than not. If you can't see that then you're a little on the slow side, sorry.

EMB6903
09-29-2009, 11:40 PM
Mcfadden is not having a good year...4 fumbles in 3 games isn't much to get excited about... The guys I've mentioned are in the same class and have been more productive then mcfadden.... There is nothing you can argue about that.... Mcfadden did not have a good year last year based on where he was picked... A rb that's picked in the top ten should produce immedietly...whatever though.... I can't argue with somebody who thinks rushing over 50 yards twice in 16 career games is good... That's not even average...that's horrendous...mcfadden has been a huge bust so far and to say otherwise is foolish

Poet
09-29-2009, 11:55 PM
Mcfadden is not having a good year...4 fumbles in 3 games isn't much to get excited about... The guys I've mentioned are in the same class and have been more productive then mcfadden.... There is nothing you can argue about that.... Mcfadden did not have a good year last year based on where he was picked... A rb that's picked in the top ten should produce immedietly...whatever though.... I can't argue with somebody who thinks rushing over 50 yards twice in 16 career games is good... That's not even average...that's horrendous...mcfadden has been a huge bust so far and to say otherwise is foolish

Uh... I have an idea, let's look at those guys and what they have done THIS Year. My god, he's had some fumbles, that doesn't exactly take away everything from him. Those guys you keep talkinga bout are worse then he is this with WITH his fumbles. I gave you a nice list of players who have or had fumble issues who were good players, or are good players.

No one in this world is going to agree with you that he is a bust. And no, just because you're a high pick doesn't mean you should produce immediately. That's just you tacking on some bullshit to try to prove your point. You are wrong. Point blank wrong. McFadden was good his rookie year, and is outperforming most of the people on that list you gave me.

EMB6903
09-30-2009, 07:58 AM
Nobody is going to agree with me that hes a bust?

He was the #6 overall pick in the NFL draft as a RB and only has piled up 2 50+ yard games, Knowshon already has that in 3 weeks.


Can you tell me what Mcfadden has done in this league? what games did he stand out in?

THIS YEAR Matt Schaub has put up better numbers then Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger, Carson Palmer, Jay Cutler, and Kurt Warner... does that mean they are better? lol @ basing any judgement off 3 games.. thats as dumb as it gets.

Darren Mcfadden's amazing statistics that you speak of THIS YEAR....

Darren Mcfadden= 41 carries, 146 yards, 3.6 yards per carry, 1 touchdown, 4 fumbles.

LMAO!

Dreadnought
09-30-2009, 08:33 AM
Nobody is going to agree with me that hes a bust?

He was the #6 overall pick in the NFL draft as a RB and only has piled up 2 50+ yard games, Knowshon already has that in 3 weeks.


Can you tell me what Mcfadden has done in this league? what games did he stand out in?

THIS YEAR Matt Schaub has put up better numbers then Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger, Carson Palmer, Jay Cutler, and Kurt Warner... does that mean they are better? lol @ basing any judgement off 3 games.. thats as dumb as it gets.

Darren Mcfadden's amazing statistics that you speak of THIS YEAR....

Darren Mcfadden= 41 carries, 146 yards, 3.6 yards per carry, 1 touchdown, 4 fumbles.

LMAO!


You have a valid point on the fumbles, no question. Tatum Bell, a supposed "fumbler" had a total of ten in his career. His worst year, 2006, saw him cough up the ball 5 times on 233 carries and 24 catches. Overall he had 10 fumbles in 569 career carries plus 71 catches. That works out to a fumble every 64 touches.

McFaddin now has 7 in just 16 career games and 154 carries plus 35 catches. In short he's fumbling at once per 27 touches, or 237% above the rate Tatum Bell fumbled at. That is not a good indicator.

Overtime
09-30-2009, 08:46 AM
Nobody is going to agree with me that hes a bust?

He was the #6 overall pick in the NFL draft as a RB and only has piled up 2 50+ yard games, Knowshon already has that in 3 weeks.


Can you tell me what Mcfadden has done in this league? what games did he stand out in?

THIS YEAR Matt Schaub has put up better numbers then Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger, Carson Palmer, Jay Cutler, and Kurt Warner... does that mean they are better? lol @ basing any judgement off 3 games.. thats as dumb as it gets.

Darren Mcfadden's amazing statistics that you speak of THIS YEAR....

Darren Mcfadden= 41 carries, 146 yards, 3.6 yards per carry, 1 touchdown, 4 fumbles.

LMAO!

I'll agree with you McFaddywack is a bust. He's a modern day Greg Hill.

nothing exceptional, few flashes of brilliance, but not much else really.

dogfish
09-30-2009, 09:55 AM
king, please tell me anything mcfumble has done to show that he is or ever will be a good NFL back. . . right now he's 30th in the league in rushing yards, and 38th in YPC (only counting RBs with 20+ carries). . . he has one TD in three games. . . he didn't do shit last year, either. . .

and don't blame the line, either-- last year that same line was good enough to rank tenth in both total rushing yards and yards per carry, with the same shit talent at QB and equally terrible receivers. . . .

so tell me what he's done to be considered anything besides a below-average NFL back. . . not what he did in college, not his supposed skillset or what you think he MIGHT do at some point, but what he's actually done, in terms of real production. . . because right now he's averaging 50 yards per game and 4.2 per carry for his career, and that shouldn't impress anybody. . .

that's not to say that he can't ever possibly be successful, but most good tailbacks show it within their first year or so, and to this point he simply has not shown any signs of being the special player that some had him projected as and that his draft slot should warrant. . . .

Poet
09-30-2009, 10:32 AM
The gist of it is this; barely what, a quarter into the season a talented RB who has shown flashes of brilliance is struggling on the worst team in football. A team that sports a QB who has a career day if he completes 48 % of his passes. A team that lacks a quality WR, has a pourous offensive line and sucks at defense.

You point to fumbles, which I can easily show you is not the end of a RB. I gave you names like Adrian Peterson (the best back in the NFL), Tiki Barber (a guy who had several great years and was considered to be dominant), Willie Parker, who has had a strong career and puts up good yardage.

You then point to a lot of other young backs. But when we break down their numbers most of them are struggling as well. McFadden had a good rookie year. Was he impressive? No. Did he show that he could play football? I would like to have him on my team.

http://www.nfl.com/players/darrenmcfadden/gamelogs?id=MCF084974&season=2008

That would be his game logs for his rookie year. You keep asking me why he hasn't done anything, well look at the amount of carries he's gotten. He's pretty impressive when you consider he plays on a team that can't throw the ball and refuses to let him carry the load.

Then you look at him this year, http://www.nfl.com/players/darrenmcfadden/gamelogs?id=MCF084974&season=2009

Through three games he's unimpressive. Wow, just like...everyone else on that list that EMB tried to use. They have him 17 carries, 12 carries, and then 12 more carries.

So basically what your argument boils down to is this; he hasn't been a world beater but I can't really say that he's awful, he's had some issues fumbling the ball but so have a lot of backs and it's a correctable issue, but he had a terrible game against my team and I hate his team so he sucks. Oh yeah, maybe if I provide a bullshit list about backs how are better than he is but are currently struggling just as much if not more I can try to prove something...


Nope, sure can't.

Dreadnought
09-30-2009, 11:03 AM
Adrian Peterson - one fumble per 50.5 touches

Tiki Barber - one fumble per 52.8 touches

Willie Parker - one fumble per 80.5 touches.

King, it looks like McFaddin is in a whole nother world so far as ball security goes. I'm not prepared to say he's a bust yet, and it looks to me like he's a pretty good runner (I'll take 4.2 YPC most any time) but you can't deny that he's got a big time problem here

Poet
09-30-2009, 11:07 AM
Adrian Peterson - one fumble per 50.5 touches

Tiki Barber - one fumble per 52.8 touches

Willie Parker - one fumble per 80.5 touches.

King, it looks like McFaddin is in a whole nother world so far as ball security goes. I'm not prepared to say he's a bust yet, and it looks to me like he's a pretty good runner (I'll take 4.2 YPC most any time) but you can't deny that he's got a big time problem here

That's for their careers, Dread. But both those players had several big years of fumbling the ball. Doe he have a problem holding onto the ball? Yeah. Is it going to stay a problem for him? I doubt it.

Bronco Warrior
09-30-2009, 12:11 PM
He's a great reporter, a great writer, and he's correct more often than not. If you can't see that then you're a little on the slow side, sorry.

And just when I though..from the rest of the response that while wrong..you weren't delusional..then this...lol! Clayton couldn't pick a winner in a one horse race..which is funny cause 10 years ago that was his "beat" lol!

And because I disagree with a youngster who thinks he is a sportswriter I'm slow? Don't follow so maybe I better get my Helmet and droolbib!:confused:

Bronco Warrior
09-30-2009, 12:13 PM
And McFadden isn't even the second best back outta ARKANSAS last year! Jones = Hillis> Darren McBuster

Medford Bronco
09-30-2009, 12:26 PM
Russell is the greatest overpaid, overweight, overrated, and overcelebrated player in the game. The fact that ANYONE celebrates him in a positive light is sad.

McDonalds probably celebrates him:lol:

Bronco Warrior
09-30-2009, 12:41 PM
Breaking News: Fox Reality has offered J. Russel a Spot on a celebraty spinoff of "BIGGEST LOSER". It is schedualed to include Flozelle Adams and " Bling Bling Boy" From the Cartoon Series "Johny Test". Russel has declined the offer stating... "I would hate to ruin my reputation by associating my name with anything remotely related to the word "LOSER"!

EMB6903
09-30-2009, 01:26 PM
So basically what your argument boils down to is this; he hasn't been a world beater but I can't really say that he's awful, he's had some issues fumbling the ball but so have a lot of backs and it's a correctable issue, but he had a terrible game against my team and I hate his team so he sucks. Oh yeah, maybe if I provide a bullshit list about backs how are better than he is but are currently struggling just as much if not more I can try to prove something...

He sucks because he hasnt done squat in this league.... 1 100 yard rushing performance, and 2 games where he reached 50+ is HORRIBLE for a 6th overall pick who has played in 16 games, you can type the bullshit that I hate Mcfadden and think he sucks because Im a Broncos fan and he plays for the Raiders but thats not the case... I tell it like it is and so far Mcfadden has been a BUST.

the players Ive mentioned like Forte, Stewart, Johnson, and Slaton have been productive and consistent in this league before.. throughout an entire season... Mcfadden has yet to put together a couple good games... It isnt even an argument, as of right now Mcfadden is at best the 5th best RB in that class REGARDLESS OF 3 GAMES THIS YEAR. and that doesnt even include Felix Jones who I think is much more of a playmaker.

Poet
09-30-2009, 06:35 PM
He sucks because he hasnt done squat in this league.... 1 100 yard rushing performance, and 2 games where he reached 50+ is HORRIBLE for a 6th overall pick who has played in 16 games, you can type the bullshit that I hate Mcfadden and think he sucks because Im a Broncos fan and he plays for the Raiders but thats not the case... I tell it like it is and so far Mcfadden has been a BUST.

the players Ive mentioned like Forte, Stewart, Johnson, and Slaton have been productive and consistent in this league before.. throughout an entire season... Mcfadden has yet to put together a couple good games... It isnt even an argument, as of right now Mcfadden is at best the 5th best RB in that class REGARDLESS OF 3 GAMES THIS YEAR. and that doesnt even include Felix Jones who I think is much more of a playmaker.

He's put up good production on a team that doesn't use him right. My god, look at the actual numbers. Stare at them, read them, fondle them kindly you silly man. Look at the attempts he is given. When he's given the ball he does well.

The Felix Jones thing is funny. I wouldn't want Jones on my team because he can't stay healthy. He's had a grand total of 51 carries in his CAREER. It's not even comparable to McFadden because Run DMC doesn't get many carries due to his owner and coach being dumb; Felix Jones barely carries the ball because he's busy imitating Mr.Glass from Bruce Willis' "Untouchable".

All of those guys on your list produced, so did DMC. DMC produced with a lot less opportunities, they produced with many ones. They are good, but he's better than they are this year. Clearly they must all suck. :rolleyes:

Or, you're just being a silly homer. Yup, you're just being a silly homer.

Done.

EMB6903
09-30-2009, 06:48 PM
He's put up good production on a team that doesn't use him right. My god, look at the actual numbers. Stare at them, read them, fondle them kindly you silly man. Look at the attempts he is given. When he's given the ball he does well.

The Felix Jones thing is funny. I wouldn't want Jones on my team because he can't stay healthy. He's had a grand total of 51 carries in his CAREER. It's not even comparable to McFadden because Run DMC doesn't get many carries due to his owner and coach being dumb; Felix Jones barely carries the ball because he's busy imitating Mr.Glass from Bruce Willis' "Untouchable".

All of those guys on your list produced, so did DMC. DMC produced with a lot less opportunities, they produced with many ones. They are good, but he's better than they are this year. Clearly they must all suck. :rolleyes:

Or, you're just being a silly homer. Yup, you're just being a silly homer.

Done.

lol @ "on a team that doesnt use him right" you know you are a situational runningback when you have to be used a certain way to produce in this league...

Can you tell me why you think Darren Mcfadden is better then Matt Forte, Chris Johnson, Johnathon Stewart, Felix Jones and Steve Slaton? what has he done to put him ahead of these RB's in 3 weeks? 1 touchdown? 4 fumbles? those numbers dont seem so appealing to me.

If you were going by the first three games to judge whose better (absolutely retarded) then Felix Jones is better then Darren Mcfadden. because he has better numbers throughout the first 3 games of the season.. right?

The Oakland Raiders have a real runningback in Michael Bush who doesnt get the rock nearly as much as he should...

How in the hell does Knowshon have as many 50+ yard games as Mcfadden does in 14 less games?

T.K.O.
09-30-2009, 07:05 PM
i think mcfadden and bush combined for 23 yrds against the broncos?if thats the case we either have the best run D in the league or they both are kinda suckin it up!

Poet
09-30-2009, 07:06 PM
lol @ "on a team that doesnt use him right" you know you are a situational runningback when you have to be used a certain way to produce in this league...

Can you tell me why you think Darren Mcfadden is better then Matt Forte, Chris Johnson, Johnathon Stewart, Felix Jones and Steve Slaton? what has he done to put him ahead of these RB's in 3 weeks? 1 touchdown? 4 fumbles? those numbers dont seem so appealing to me.

If you were going by the first three games to judge whose better (absolutely retarded) then Felix Jones is better then Darren Mcfadden. because he has better numbers throughout the first 3 games of the season.. right?

The Oakland Raiders have a real runningback in Michael Bush who doesnt get the rock nearly as much as he should...

How in the hell does Knowshon have as many 50+ yard games as Mcfadden does in 14 less games?

Knowshon is a better back?

McFadden doesn't get many touches when he's proven he can carry the rock. I'm sorry that he plays for the worst team in the NFL? I don't think McFadden is or isn't better than those guys. I think most of them will be good backs. I think Slaton and Forte will end up fizzling out because I can't see them holding up in the NFL. That goes double for Forte. I just think that McFadden will be a good back. I think he has a strong chance at being an elite back.

You keep going on about Felix Jones. Out of those entire guys on the list he's the one I would want the least. He's always hurt. That's why I know you're just being a homer. You're telling me that an injury prone player is worse than Run DMC right after telling me that it doesn't matter DMC is outperforming so many guys on that list THIS YEAR.

EMB6903
09-30-2009, 07:29 PM
First off.. quit saying "run DMC" is outperforming anybody this year.. he hasnt "outperformed" any starting Runningback in this league.. Slaton and Forte might be playing as bad as Mcfadden.... but none of them have put up any legit numbers to where you could say one is outperforming the rest.

playing for the Raiders doesnt give him the excuse to fumble 7 times in 16 career games... and if hes as good as you think, which hes not it shouldnt matter what team hes playing for...Im pretty sure you havent seen many Raiders games since Mcfadden arrived in Oakland and you are just living off his college success... I mean there couldnt be any other reason to say something as dumb as "Mcfadden is going to be a top 3 back in this league" because he hasnt done much to make anybody whose actually watched him play believe that hes cabable of becoming one of the best RB's in the league.

I get it though.. Im just a homer who hates the Raiders..

and yes Knowshon is better then Darren Mcfadden... I mean you like to go by the first 3 games of the year to judge a players success...Knowshon has the better numbers so far.

so something we can both agree on is....

Knowshon~~~>Darren.

Poet
09-30-2009, 07:32 PM
i get it though.. Im just a homer who hates the raiders..


So something we can both agree on is....

knowshon~~~>darren.

qft.

dogfish
09-30-2009, 09:07 PM
First off.. quit saying "run DMC" is outperforming anybody this year.. he hasnt "outperformed" any starting Runningback in this league.. Slaton and Forte might be playing as bad as Mcfadden.... but none of them have put up any legit numbers to where you could say one is outperforming the rest.

playing for the Raiders doesnt give him the excuse to fumble 7 times in 16 career games... and if hes as good as you think, which hes not it shouldnt matter what team hes playing for...Im pretty sure you havent seen many Raiders games since Mcfadden arrived in Oakland and you are just living off his college success... I mean there couldnt be any other reason to say something as dumb as "Mcfadden is going to be a top 3 back in this league" because he hasnt done much to make anybody whose actually watched him play believe that hes cabable of becoming one of the best RB's in the league.

I get it though.. Im just a homer who hates the Raiders..

and yes Knowshon is better then Darren Mcfadden... I mean you like to go by the first 3 games of the year to judge a players success...Knowshon has the better numbers so far.

so something we can both agree on is....

Knowshon~~~>Darren.

if he's a top-three type of back, he should be dominating already, forcing them to play him by kicking ass whenever he's out there. . . tomlinson started on a chargers team that was just as bad as these raiders, and he was dope pretty much from the get-go. . . barry sanders was a legend on mostly bad teams, or at least on teams that would have been terrible without him. . . if mcfadden's such a stud, he should already be showing it. . . . he's not, and saying so has nothing to do with what team he plays for-- just what he's done on the field. . .

shit, i have no problem admitting that guys like asomugha and zach miller are good players, and they wear the same silver and black. . . mcfumble just isn't anything particularly special. . . king, let me know when he does something to prove otherwise. . . .

T.K.O.
09-30-2009, 09:38 PM
this is a broncos forum.......mcfadden just got shut down by the broncos....how is he better than knowshon? who just made mcfadden look like a 7th rounder!

Dreadnought
09-30-2009, 11:10 PM
In any event, I don't think anyone is saying McFaddin is a bum here, just varying degrees of whether or not he's any good. I think he's pretty good, King thinks better than that, EMB and Dogfish not so much...Can we all agree though that JaMarcus Russell is possibly the worst QB to start on purpose in the last 40 years of the NFL? That much at least is blindingly obvious.

Poet
09-30-2009, 11:20 PM
In any event, I don't think anyone is saying McFaddin is a bum here, just varying degrees of whether or not he's any good. I think he's pretty good, King thinks better than that, EMB and Dogfish not so much...Can we all agree though that JaMarcus Russell is possibly the worst QB to start on purpose in the last 40 years of the NFL? That much at least is blindingly obvious.

You know how when you watch a funny comedian you prepare yourself to laugh really hard once he or she gets going? Like that moment just before that awesome punch line that you know is going to have you rolling on the floor?

I feel like that every single time he drops back to pass.

Devilspawn
09-30-2009, 11:22 PM
if he's a top-three type of back, he should be dominating already, forcing them to play him by kicking ass whenever he's out there. . . tomlinson started on a chargers team that was just as bad as these raiders, and he was dope pretty much from the get-go. . . barry sanders was a legend on mostly bad teams, or at least on teams that would have been terrible without him. . . if mcfadden's such a stud, he should already be showing it. . . . he's not, and saying so has nothing to do with what team he plays for-- just what he's done on the field. . .

shit, i have no problem admitting that guys like asomugha and zach miller are good players, and they wear the same silver and black. . . mcfumble just isn't anything particularly special. . . king, let me know when he does something to prove otherwise. . . .
You do know that Tomlinson carried the ball 339 times in his rookie year for a mere 3.6. That is EXACTLY 3xs as many carries as McFadden's 113, who had a better average per carry.

You do know that Tomlinson played AFTER Ryan Leaf, not with him.

Meanwhile McFadden...

And you do know that in his rookie year, Tomlinson's Chargers were 5-11, losing their last 9. Same record as Oakland in McFadden's rookie year.

He may have been special from the get go, but the person on his team with the second most carries was Flutie with 71... which were actually scrambles.

Oh did I mention that Fargas was the featured back last year?

Was it also mentioned that Drew Brees was Tomlinson's QB his sophomore season?

Meanwhile McFadden...

Overtime
09-30-2009, 11:27 PM
haha, Brian Billick is even piling on JeMarshmallow.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d81309e9a&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true


NFL Network analyst Brian Billick was asked during his weekly chat what he would do with Raiders QB JaMarcus Russell if he were head coach.

"I've not seen much in the play of Russell over the last three weeks to indicate any expectation for improvement. If he were a rookie, and just now playing in his third game, you could make some case for the lack of his productivity. But being in his third year in the league, and given that lack of productivity, I'm not sure what you're hanging your expectations on for improvement.

"The unknown part of the equation is that if you don't have anyone behind him to put in, that changes the price of poker in this game."

Bronco Warrior
09-30-2009, 11:28 PM
In any event, I don't think anyone is saying McFaddin is a bum here, just varying degrees of whether or not he's any good. I think he's pretty good, King thinks better than that, EMB and Dogfish not so much...Can we all agree though that JaMarcus Russell is possibly the worst QB to start on purpose in the last 40 years of the NFL? That much at least is blindingly obvious.

I ain't Skeered..I'll say it "McFadden is a bum! He is the third best back to come outta Arkansas last year."

Fullback turn Sledgehammer Hillis had a much better YPC than he did and was hurt half the season and got comprable yardage rushing and receiving and Moreno will make him look like a college free-agent this year let alone the savior of the Raiders backfield as he was hailed..lol!

Every 1st rounder Alziemers Davis has taken in the last 5 years..(will say Hudff might have a chance to not be) has been a bust..and not just a small disappointment! Gallery (Perrenial All Pro LEft Tackle,) Michael Huff- (Dominant Saftey), Russel (..the second coming of the QB Almighty), McFadden...(best college back to come along in a decade , the next marcus allen)....DHB (Greased lightning in a can with velco hands) I hope Al keeps making those great picks for the next decade! LMAO!

Devilspawn
09-30-2009, 11:33 PM
I ain't Skeered..I'll say it "McFadden is a bum! He is the third best back to come outta Arkansas last year."

Fullback turn Sledgehammer Hillis had a much better YPC than he did and was hurt half the season and got comprable yardage rushing and receiving
So why does Hillis have 4 yards this season if he's the second best back out of Arkansas?

Shazam!
09-30-2009, 11:43 PM
Sorry, but this isn't about McFad, this is about JaMarcus, who is a bust. He sucks. Awful.

dogfish
10-01-2009, 12:04 AM
You do know that Tomlinson carried the ball 339 times in his rookie year for a mere 3.6. That is EXACTLY 3xs as many carries as McFadden's 113, who had a better average per carry.

i know that LT was GOOD enough to command a fulltime starting gig right from the get-go, and proved right away that he was a durable and dependable workhorse-- even on a bad team. . .

339 carries, 59 catches-- over 1,500 combined yards and 10 TDs. . . . who cares if his yards per average wasn't very good? the guy was an obvious stud right out of the gate, just like peterson-- just like edge james back in the day. . . that's the kind of guy mcfadden was supposed to be, and he very clearly isn't. . .


You do know that Tomlinson played AFTER Ryan Leaf, not with him.

and you do know that those chargers still lost enough games to have the top pick in the draft, right? they were plenty bad, even without leaf. . .


Meanwhile McFadden...

also started on a shitty team-- and has shown no signs of doing anything to turn them around the way you want top ten picks to. . .


And you do know that in his rookie year, Tomlinson's Chargers were 5-11, losing their last 9. Same record as Oakland in McFadden's rookie year.

sure, but it wasn't because tomlinson wasn't productive. . .


He may have been special from the get go, but the person on his team with the second most carries was Flutie with 71... which were actually scrambles.

Oh did I mention that Fargas was the featured back last year?

so mcfadden being unable to beat out the son of huggie bear is a good thing? yea, not so much IMO. . . fargas isn't terrible, but he's a league-average at best back-- a real stud RB would have taken his job about three days after getting into camp. . . .


Was it also mentioned that Drew Brees was Tomlinson's QB his sophomore season?

no. . . you mean the drew brees that threw as many picks as TDs and had a 76.9 passer rating? the drew brees that was worse the next year, bad enough that they spent their top pick on another QB? oh, you mean that drew brees? what's your point? don't tell me he was loosening up the defense for LT-- brees didn't do shit until '04. . .

besides, we aren't comparing LT's sophmore season to mcfadden, and i really don't think you want to. . .

wanna compare adrian peterson's second season, or will that be too depressing when you realize you guys could've had him instead of off the markus russell?

:D

shiiiit-- in fairness to mcfadden, we should probably be comparing his performance so far to the likes of the immortal jamaal charles or benjarvus green-ellis, rather than beasts like LT and all day. . .


Meanwhile McFadden...

is still nothing special. . .


i can do this all day, spawn. . . spin or analyze it however you want, and at the end of the day the guy still only has two games with over 50 rushing yards-- not exactly the second coming of eric dickerson. . . .

Poet
10-01-2009, 12:28 AM
Dogfish, do you understand the concept of carries? Look at what he's been given to work with. My god, you make it sound like he carries the ball 25 times a game and sucks. A shitty franchise is mismanaging a player.

As far as the entire SD and Oak thing goes, Tomlinson wasn't special in his rookie year at all going by the standards of some here because he had 8 fumbles But they let him play because they knew that they had to give him a real shot. Meanwhile Oakland is failing miserably and not even giving DMC a real shot to succeed.

dogfish
10-01-2009, 12:46 AM
Dogfish, do you understand the concept of carries? Look at what he's been given to work with. My god, you make it sound like he carries the ball 25 times a game and sucks. A shitty franchise is mismanaging a player.

As far as the entire SD and Oak thing goes, Tomlinson wasn't special in his rookie year at all going by the standards of some here because he had 8 fumbles But they let him play because they knew that they had to give him a real shot. Meanwhile Oakland is failing miserably and not even giving DMC a real shot to succeed.

so, he's such a stud back but he can't even earn significant carries? yea, i don't buy it. . . tom cable actually looks like a halfway competent coach, and i'm pretty sure he wants to win just like any other coach-- if mcfadden is good, wouldn't cable feed him the ball?

i understand the concept of carries quite well-- do you understand the concept that playmakers get the ball, from high school right on up?

Poet
10-01-2009, 01:21 AM
so, he's such a stud back but he can't even earn significant carries? yea, i don't buy it. . . tom cable actually looks like a halfway competent coach, and i'm pretty sure he wants to win just like any other coach-- if mcfadden is good, wouldn't cable feed him the ball?

i understand the concept of carries quite well-- do you understand the concept that playmakers get the ball, from high school right on up?

Name one worse team from the ownership to the coaches in the league than the Raiders. Tell me. When he's gotten the ball he produces pretty well. Look at what he does with he carries and tell me that he isn't any good. You can't. He isn't getting the ball enough and you know it.

For the last time, here we go.

http://www.nfl.com/players/darrenmcfadden/profile?id=MCF084974

http://www.nfl.com/players/michaelbush/profile?id=BUS277873

Oakland has decided that they want to play like the Giants and have a RBBC.

Last year Michael Bush rushed for 421 yards with a 4.4 YPC.

That same year DMC rushed for 499 yeards with a 4.4 YPC.

Bush got 95 carries. DMC got 113.

The Raiders also ran Justin Fargas a lot. He started 14 games with them and rushed for 853 yards. He had 218 carries. http://www.nfl.com/players/justinfargas/profile?id=FAR068315

Oakland had THREE backs that got a decent chunk of carries. Now why don't you go ahead and tell me why he didn't put up a ton of numbers? Oh, because he wasn't given the opporunity to. Derf, wow, it's almost like I've been telling you tards the same thing time after time. This time I literally had to post the link and I hope that you and the rest of the slow boys can keep up.

So, let's have a quick recap. He wasn't given the rock as much as the other rookies that EMB keeps drooling over and he still played well and is better than they are so far this year. So in comparison to so many other young backs he's not really being outdone. Throw that argument out.

Then we go to the next argument that he has fumbling issues. He's not great at ball security but he had one terrible game against you guys and last year he had four fumbles over the year. Not good at all, but it's correctable. So we throw that one out.

Uh-oh, it gets worse. He still has that great talent, he's still produced when he's given the chance, and he's catching more hell here for having a bad game against the team that this message board promotes. Yeah, why am I not surprised that so many morons are pilling in to drop a bunch of bullshit arguments?

I know that YOU know better. Stop being ******* stupid.

Devilspawn
10-01-2009, 01:27 AM
i know that LT was GOOD enough to command a fulltime starting gig right from the get-go, and proved right away that he was a durable and dependable workhorse-- even on a bad team. . . 339 carries, 59 catches-- over 1,500 combined yards and 10 TDs. . . . who cares if his yards per average wasn't very good? the guy was an obvious stud right out of the gate, just like peterson-- just like edge james back in the day. . . that's the kind of guy mcfadden was supposed to be, and he very clearly isn't. . .
That's the word, workhorse.

Who's job did Tomlinson take in 2001? Terrell Fletcher. Or was it Jermaine Fazande? I'll give the casual fan time to google those names.

Fargas, while not the best of backs, was a favorite. He managed over 1000 yards, while not overly impressive, it's something that COULD be built on. Now as a coach, do you sit a 1000 yard back for an unknown just because he was taken 7th, or do you add him to the mix, something San Diego couldn't do because who the hell mixes with Terrell Fletcher and Jermaine Fazande.

Yeah let's sit Fargas and his workhorse 1000 yards because this new guy commands it in training camp and he commanded it in high school and college. We might as well sit all vets and replace them with rookies who can hopscotch tires with the best of them.

Didn't Nnamdi tell you to THINK before you post. ;)

And remember, McFadden wasn't needed by Oakland. They could've taken their chances with the mix of Fargas and another unproven, Bush and drafted, oh I don't know, Ryan Clady. But WHO drafts the speedy flashy guy again?

Now who's to say McFadden doesn't surpass Tomlinson's yards if given the same amount of carries? It's all speculation at this point since McFadden wasn't brought in as a feature back like Tomlinson and Edge, who had 256 more carries than McFadden, when comparing rookie years.

I won't even get into Manning/JaMarcus, Harrison/Whoever. Don't act like these aren't laughable comparisons.



and you do know that those chargers still lost enough games to have the top pick in the draft, right? they were plenty bad, even without leaf. . .
A bad as Oakland? They went 5-2 prior to that 9 game losing streak. They were plenty competitive in most of those losses. The next year, they fought the Raiders for first place in December. Aren't there dozens upon dozens of posts and threads here questioning the Raiders competitiveness for lone plays, much less games?


no. . . you mean the drew brees that threw as many picks as TDs and had a 76.9 passer rating? the drew brees that was worse the next year, bad enough that they spent their top pick on another QB? oh, you mean that drew brees? what's your point? don't tell me he was loosening up the defense for LT-- brees didn't do shit until '04. . .
Compare Drew Brees then to JaMarcus now. Heck, compare Peyton Manning, who had Marshall Faulk's 324 carries as a featured back with his 26 TDs and 28 INTs and 71.2 QB rating in his rookie year.

That's my point. Any questions?


wanna compare adrian peterson's second season, or will that be too depressing when you realize you guys could've had him instead of off the markus russell?
Are you seriously telling me Peterson puts up 1700 yards on the Raiders and McFadden puts up, oh let's say 700. But to be fair, you have to give Peterson 14 carries per game and McFadden 23 per. Oh wait wait, McFadden gets Minnesota's o-line. Then he gets the slight improvement in whoever the Vikings QB is and the improvement of having a capable wideout.

And he loses Al Davis.

And since you just the guy Off The Markus Russell, you reminded me that this is a thread about a QB who's currently challenging Ryan Leaf for the biggest bust label of all time. Yeah, let's throw Adrian Peterson in.


i can do this all day, spawn. . . spin or analyze it however you want, and at the end of the day the guy still only has two games with over 50 rushing yards-- not exactly the second coming of eric dickerson. . . .
You can do it all night if it suits you, but you'll be arguing with yourself. I never played the OR card with McFadden, but people proclaim he's a bust just because he's not Peterson, Tomlinson or any past great who were featured backs should get some feedback.

McFadden at this point has only been a TRUE featured back for 1 game. Barring injury to Bush and Fargas, that scenario down the road is unlikely for two weeks in a row, if that. We'll see. The guy has flaws, but a bust? No.

dogfish
10-01-2009, 02:04 AM
Name one worse team from the ownership to the coaches in the league than the Raiders. Tell me.

cleveland is just as bad, and kansas city doesn't look any better. . .


When he's gotten the ball he produces pretty well.

career 4.2 YPC average, with more fumbles than touchdowns-- looks more like tatum bell than eric dickerson. . .


Look at what he does with he carries and tell me that he isn't any good.

i already told you what i think he is-- a league average back, at best, which is exactly what his production says he is. . . . a committee back who hasn't done anything to make the coaches give him more carries-- the kind of guy you can get in the 4th round any year. . .


You can't. He isn't getting the ball enough and you know it.

well, if he's good enough to be a top three back in the league, why won't they give him more carries?

blame it on the coaches! blame it on the line. . . blame it on al davis-- or jamarcus, or roger goodell. . . or obama, or aliens. . .

last year, fred jackson had comparable stats to mcfumble. . . i guess he could be a top three back too, if he could just get more carries. . . . right?

seriously, what's the difference between them other than mcfadden being a high pick with a great college career?



For the last time, here we go.

http://www.nfl.com/players/darrenmcfadden/profile?id=MCF084974

http://www.nfl.com/players/michaelbush/profile?id=BUS277873

Oakland has decided that they want to play like the Giants and have a RBBC.

Last year Michael Bush rushed for 421 yards with a 4.4 YPC.

That same year DMC rushed for 499 yeards with a 4.4 YPC.

Bush got 95 carries. DMC got 113.

The Raiders also ran Justin Fargas a lot. He started 14 games with them and rushed for 853 yards. He had 218 carries. http://www.nfl.com/players/justinfargas/profile?id=FAR068315

Oakland had THREE backs that got a decent chunk of carries. Now why don't you go ahead and tell me why he didn't put up a ton of numbers? Oh, because he wasn't given the opporunity to. Derf, wow, it's almost like I've been telling you tards the same thing time after time. This time I literally had to post the link and I hope that you and the rest of the slow boys can keep up.


blah, blah, and more blah-- chester taylor ran for 1,200 yards in '06, how long did it take AD to take his job?

brad childress is one of the biggest idiots in the league, and even he was bright enough to give the stud back the damn ball. . . .



So, let's have a quick recap. He wasn't given the rock as much as the other rookies that EMB keeps drooling over and he still played well and is better than they are so far this year. So in comparison to so many other young backs he's not really being outdone. Throw that argument out.

yes, please do throw it out-- why the hell should i defend his arguments?


Then we go to the next argument that he has fumbling issues. He's not great at ball security but he had one terrible game against you guys and last year he had four fumbles over the year. Not good at all, but it's correctable. So we throw that one out.

no, don't throw it out. . . more fumbles than touchdowns for his career-- how many other top three backs can you say that about?

shit, how many top fifteen backs can you say that about?



I know that YOU know better. Stop being ******* stupid.

know better my ass-- he's an average back until he proves otherwise, and no amount of spin will change that. . . i know he was a good college back, if that's what you mean, but i said before that draft that he wasn't a special NFL prospect, and so far he's done NOTHING to prove me wrong. . . so post all ya want, and then get back to me when this guy does something that makes him any better than any other committee back in the league. . . .

right now he's on pace for about 800 yards and maybe 5 TDs-- look up the numbers from the top three backs last year, and tell me how that stacks up. . . .

:salute:

EMB6903
10-01-2009, 08:10 AM
Dogfish, do you understand the concept of carries? Look at what he's been given to work with. My god, you make it sound like he carries the ball 25 times a game and sucks. A shitty franchise is mismanaging a player.

As far as the entire SD and Oak thing goes, Tomlinson wasn't special in his rookie year at all going by the standards of some here because he had 8 fumbles But they let him play because they knew that they had to give him a real shot. Meanwhile Oakland is failing miserably and not even giving DMC a real shot to succeed.

Do you understand the concept of earning carries? Fumbling the ball as much as he does is probably why he doesn't get the ball as much as you think he should.

Poet
10-01-2009, 09:02 AM
Do you understand the concept of earning carries? Fumbling the ball as much as he does is probably why he doesn't get the ball as much as you think he should.

He had 3 fumbles last year. What a staggering number!!!! Yes, he fumbles a good chunk per carry, but if you're telling me that you aren't goign to play a guy who deserved to be drafted where he was the because he has a fumbling issue I'm going to call you crazy. You have a lot invested in a first round pick, you have to give them the opportunity to rectify the situation.

Dogfish, Cleveland isn't as bad a Oak and KC isn't there yet.

Since when is a 4.2 average bad? You can keep pointing to him having an easily correctable problem all you want, that doesn't change anything. You can tell me that he hasn't earned his carries, and that's silly. You give the guys you draft a chance to play especially if they are a first round pick.

dogfish
10-01-2009, 10:20 AM
He had 3 fumbles last year. What a staggering number!!!! Yes, he fumbles a good chunk per carry, but if you're telling me that you aren't goign to play a guy who deserved to be drafted where he was the because he has a fumbling issue I'm going to call you crazy. You have a lot invested in a first round pick, you have to give them the opportunity to rectify the situation.

Dogfish, Cleveland isn't as bad a Oak and KC isn't there yet.

Since when is a 4.2 average bad? You can keep pointing to him having an easily correctable problem all you want, that doesn't change anything. You can tell me that he hasn't earned his carries, and that's silly. You give the guys you draft a chance to play especially if they are a first round pick.

see, i agree with a lot of what you're saying here. . . . so, YOU tell ME why he isn't getting more carries, sincve you seem to think that his play and his ability deserve it. . .

are you really telling me that mcfumble has top three potential, but bush is so good that he's getting close to half of the workload? because that's silly. . . tell me with a straight face that bush could go to minny and get half AD's carries!

:lol::lol:


or even go to carolina, replace J-stew and get close to half of deangelo's touches (edit: i mean close to half of the team's total carries, an even split-- not half as many). . . wouldn't happen. . . stewart's a better back than bush, and a first round pick himself, and he still doesn't get half the carries. . . .

think bush could get half of steven jackson's carries? i don't. . . .

and FTR, i never once said that 4.2 is bad, or that mcfadden is a bust. . . i've said, many times now in this thread, that he is a LEAGUE AVERAGE type of back, possibly with more upside than most. . . . a decent committee back-- a guy that can do what fred jackson does. . . . is a guy like that worth a top ten pick? as of right now he's nothing special, and i will continue to say it until he does something to prove otherwise. . . .

MOtorboat
10-01-2009, 10:24 AM
:focus:

JaMarcus Russell sucks.

Poet
10-01-2009, 10:29 AM
I'm saying McFadden is a monster talent who should get more carries than he's getting. That's what I'm pointing out. No, I dont think he could go to Minnesota and steal carries from Adrian Peterson. I don't think any RB could go into Minnesota and take carries from AP. What ******* relevance does that have? Wow, DMC isn't as good as AP. Clearly this means he sucks. :lol:

When did you become such a ******* moron Dog? Did you drink yourself into retardation or did you fall and hit your head? Do I think he could go to Carolina and contend for carries? Since that team actually has its head on straight when it comes to RBs yes I think he could go there and take carries from both of their RBs.

dogfish
10-01-2009, 06:54 PM
I'm saying McFadden is a monster talent who should get more carries than he's getting. That's what I'm pointing out. No, I dont think he could go to Minnesota and steal carries from Adrian Peterson. I don't think any RB could go into Minnesota and take carries from AP. What ******* relevance does that have? Wow, DMC isn't as good as AP. Clearly this means he sucks. :lol:

When did you become such a ******* moron Dog? Did you drink yourself into retardation or did you fall and hit your head? Do I think he could go to Carolina and contend for carries? Since that team actually has its head on straight when it comes to RBs yes I think he could go there and take carries from both of their RBs.


geez dude, i didn't know you got so pissy when someone fails to bow to your opinion. . . oh well, i'm not wasting my time taking weak personal shots at you. . .

let me know when mr. "monster talent" cracks the top twenty on the league rushing yards list. . . .

:welcome:

EMB6903
10-01-2009, 06:54 PM
Since when is a 4.2 average bad?

4.2 average isnt bad... it certainly isnt anything to brag about, esspecially when you look at little hes carried the ball..

first round picks that are RB's should produce immidietely, top 10? should put up pro bowl type numbers from the start.

Mcfadden has one good game in his entire NFL career.

also.... Johnathon stewart is bigger stronger, and just as fast as Dmac... hes also a better pure rb... a much better football player.

King, honest question... how many games have you seen Mcfadden play? one? you have said nothing but ignorant comments since arguing Mcfadden.. Im really starting to think you are talking out of your ass... or just arguing to argue, one or the other... either way you are an idiot if you think Mcfadden is a top 15 rb in this league much less top 3.

Poet
10-01-2009, 07:19 PM
4.2 average isnt bad... it certainly isnt anything to brag about, esspecially when you look at little hes carried the ball..

first round picks that are RB's should produce immidietely, top 10? should put up pro bowl type numbers from the start.

Mcfadden has one good game in his entire NFL career.

also.... Johnathon stewart is bigger stronger, and just as fast as Dmac... hes also a better pure rb... a much better football player.

King, honest question... how many games have you seen Mcfadden play? one? you have said nothing but ignorant comments since arguing Mcfadden.. Im really starting to think you are talking out of your ass... or just arguing to argue, one or the other... either way you are an idiot if you think Mcfadden is a top 15 rb in this league much less top 3.

Stewart is just as fast and is as strong as Dmac?

I said I think he has a shot at being a top 3 back. All you're doing is showing me that you really really suck at reading comprehension. I've seen him play plenty of times.

I swear to god I've never had to hold anyone's hand in a football argument as much as I've had to hold yours. Please tell me that your dad beat you when you were a kid, that would explain your brain damage and flat out retardedness.

He produces when he touches the ball.

shank
10-01-2009, 07:55 PM
He produces when he touches the ball.

that's the thing... he doesn't.. not like you're saying. like dogfish is saying, he produces: like an average NFL back.

:confused:

58 backs averaged 4.2+ YPC in 2008. how is that elite production when he touches the ball?



tatum bell had better stats across the board last season (after celling cell phones most of the season) than DMC has so far THIS season.

Poet
10-01-2009, 08:01 PM
that's the thing... he doesn't.. not like you're saying. like dogfish is saying, he produces: like an average NFL back.

:confused:

58 backs averaged 4.2+ YPC in 2008. how is that elite production when he touches the ball?

How many of them carried the ball as often as he did? How many of them faced a lot of stacks boxes like he did because his QB couldn't throw the ball very well?

4.4 average for 500 yards isn't exactly bad when you look at his circumstances and he's an elite talent. Why wouldn't I expect him to keep improving? He's shown flashes of brilliance when he doesn't get the ball a lot. Last year he averaged 8.7 carries a game. Exactly why would you expect big rushing numbers out of that amount of production. The production he gives for his carries is good. It's Oakland mismanaging him.

FanInAZ
10-02-2009, 01:33 AM
Shouldn't this thread be titled: "Worst offense in history" beings that no one has actually talked out their QB for days?

EMB6903
10-04-2009, 09:46 PM
Darren Mcfadden 6 carries for -3 yards today?

Slaton had 80+ overall yards and 2 touchdowns....

Matt Forte 12 carries 121 yards rushing 1 touchdown.

King- make me laugh... tell me Mcfadden is still a better runningback then Forte and Slaton.

Poet
10-04-2009, 09:48 PM
Darren Mcfadden 6 carries for -3 yards today?

Slaton had 80+ overall yards and 2 touchdowns....

Matt Forte 12 carries 121 yards rushing 1 touchdown.

King- make me laugh... tell me Mcfadden is still a better runningback then Forte and Slaton.

But this year's stats didn't matter when McFadden was outplaying them?

Dreadnought
10-04-2009, 09:48 PM
In fairness to McFadden the Texans were playing nine in the box. Nine. Thats what JaMarcus can do for you. He made even the fluffy bunny Texan defense look tough.

Poet
10-04-2009, 09:50 PM
JaMarcus is to good QB play as I am to healthy eating.

Dreadnought
10-04-2009, 09:59 PM
JaMarcus is to good QB play as I am to healthy eating.

I actually picked that one of the early games to watch. Laughing at the Raiders never gets old. That is the most flaccid and sorry excuse for an offense I can remember. I think Garcia was right, a lot of those guys are mailing it in and waiting for their paychecks

EMB6903
10-04-2009, 10:10 PM
But this year's stats didn't matter when McFadden was outplaying them?

talk to me at the end of the season... Mcfadden isnt going to outplay either of the two.

and as of right now, both currently have better stats then mcfadden.

so going off your logic...

Forte, Slaton~~~~~~>Mcfadden, right?

Poet
10-04-2009, 10:46 PM
EMB, when McFadden was outplaying them the stats now didn't matter. Now you're coming at me with "the stats now matter". You don't see an issue with that? You're also trying to use stats on a guy who plays on the worst team in the NFL that Dread just pointed out played against nine in the box. But, somehow he's bad.

To be honest I doubt that Slaton or Forte would be able to do anything in Oakland. No, I don't think either of them will end up being the better back. Especially Slaton. Could I be wrong? Yes. But, is my opinion based off of my hatred of an arch rival? No. Will I be a huge hypocrite like you? No. Sure, as of this moment right now they are both "better" than McFadden is.

Nevermind that he produces when he gets the ball. Nevermind that his main issue is easily correctable and Oakland mismanages him. He had SIX carries.

Clearly it's his fault that he got six carries. You got me.