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omac
12-08-2007, 12:24 PM
Providing our players are fully healthy next season, how many players away are we at both lines?

At the DEs, we have Dumerville, Engelberger, Moss, and Crowder. At DT, we have Thomas.

At the OL, we have Lepsis, Hamilton, Nalen, Myers, and Harris.

In the pre-season issue of Sporting News for last season, these were some of the ratings of the guys we picked up, and what they said about them:

Marcus Thomas was considered the top ranked DT in college. He was also in their SEC Honor Roll for Best Run-Stuffing Tackle. In the "An SEC coach says ..." section, they had this to say about Thomas .... "And that's including NT Marcus Thomas, who is just a beast". Thomas was also in their 1st Team All-American. That's how good Thomas was projected to be. Ofcourse, this was all way before he was suspended.

Moss was ranked the 6th best DE in college, and Crowder the 15th. Ryan Harris was ranked the 6th best OT. Moss and Thomas were also on their All-SEC 1st team. Crowder was on their All-Big-12 1st Team.

UFA DT Steven Harris was activated from the practice squad; the only info the magazine has about him is that he was a starter alongside Thomas for Florida, and that he has a mean streak.

So during the draft, we got some top college talent for the DL and the OL, and Thomas may turn out to be quite a steal.

Sometimes, just one player can make a huge difference, as is the case with Tennessee and Haynesworth, so I was thinking, if Jarvis Moss and Ryan Harris can be fully healthy next season, how many players would we need in the draft (or FA) for potential starters on both sides of the line? We seem to be pretty set at the DE possitions; do we only need one quality DT to go with Thomas? If at least Hamilton is healthy, how many players would we need to draft or acquire in FA to be starters for our OL?

Lonestar
12-08-2007, 01:00 PM
I think your correct on your thoughts IF they all come back healthy both lines should be pretty good.

Add to your DE list Ekuban, he was a force last year and if his A heel is healed could bring something to the table and a stabilizing presence on the DL..

We are in dire need for a Hanesworth type DT. Get him or a someone like him and this DL will be set for up wards of a decade with prudent draft reinforcements over the next few years..

It was our total lack of attention to the DL in the draft since we spent a #1 on price in 1998 that has cause the debacle we have had the past 3 years..


The OLINE should be OK with all of the newbies getting experience this year.. The weak will be culled out next year in TC and with perhaps th exception of Nalen retaking his spot I think it will look much like this weeks OLINE, maybe Harris taking either Lepsis (to move him back to RT) or replace Pears (a backup)..


Remember folks you lose or win games on the LOS..

omac
12-08-2007, 01:10 PM
Cool, so if all come back healthy next season, we might only need one quality DT? I think that's very, very achievable.

Thomas, Moss, and Crowder have so far shown a whole lot of potential. I'm hoping Steven Harris can step up bigtime out of nowhere. I'm wondering if Ryan Harris' back is still injured, and if he's contributed this season. If not, we might still have to draft for the OL.

Lonestar
12-08-2007, 01:18 PM
Cool, so if all come back healthy next season, we might only need one quality DT? I think that's very, very achievable.

Thomas, Moss, and Crowder have so far shown a whole lot of potential. I'm hoping Steven Harris can step up bigtime out of nowhere. I'm wondering if Ryan Harris' back is still injured, and if he's contributed this season. If not, we might still have to draft for the OL.


I really think one MAJOR player like Hanesworth would solve almost all the problems on Defense.. You saw the impact he had when he did not play against us they went from a top 5 run defense to schmucks allowing us to run all over them.. It also hampered the pass defense..

If I were mikey I would make an all out run on him as a FA.. I would not allow him to leave town without a signed contract..

With a multi year contract on him and all the rookies we would only need to draft a DL type every other year on day on day one. For the next decade.

omac
12-08-2007, 01:28 PM
I really think one MAJOR player like Hanesworth would solve almost all the problems on Defense.. You saw the impact he had when he did not play against us they went from a top 5 run defense to schmucks allowing us to run all over them.. It also hampered the pass defense..

If I were mikey I would make an all out run on him as a FA.. I would not allow him to leave town without a signed contract..

With a multi year contract on him and all the rookies we would only need to draft a DL type every other year on day on day one. For the next decade.

If it means not having 8 in the box to stop the run, I'm all for it. Hopefully we have the money for him; his 2007 contract is $5.5M. :cheers:

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=nfl&id=2636

http://footballsfuture.com/2008/nfl/freeagentsDL.html

omac
12-08-2007, 01:30 PM
Some OL free agents.

http://footballsfuture.com/2008/nfl/freeagentsOL.html

underrated29
12-08-2007, 01:48 PM
i think we need 2 dts. i agree we are set at de. We will need one hayneswroth type and another good dt, to rotate in. I alaso think we will need 1 major oline guy, hopefully at RT

so id say 3 for sure would plug all the holes.

Lonestar
12-08-2007, 01:51 PM
If it means not having 8 in the box to stop the run, I'm all for it. Hopefully we have the money for him; his 2007 contract is $5.5M. :cheers:

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=nfl&id=2636

http://footballsfuture.com/2008/nfl/freeagentsDL.html

From NFLPA

Haynesworth, Albert
View Stats at Players Inc Site
Player Info
Draft Info

DT (#)
Year: 2002

Tennessee Titans
Round: 1
Knoxville, TN
Position: 15
Salary History
2002 628333.00
2003 425416.00
2004 500000.00
2005 600000.00
2006 646251.00
2007 5553334.00

If we can get him at 2 mil per year and a healthy siging bonus he is worth his weight in gold. IMO

here are the rest of the DT for 2007

Player Name Position Team Compensation
Bernard, Rocky DT SS 3000000.00
Brock, Raheem DT IC 2035000.00
Brown, Tony DT TT 2093125.00
Coleman, Roderick DT AF 4000000.00
Ferguson, Jason DT DC 2000000.00
Glover, La'Roi DT SLR 3000000.00
Griffin, Cornelius DT WR 4200000.00
Hampton, Casey DT PS 1760000.00
Haynesworth, Albert DT TT 5553334.00
Jenkins, Kris DT CP 3200000.00
McFarland, Anthony DT IC 5500000.00
Robbins, Fred DT NYG 2500000.00
Robertson, Dewayne DT NYJ 4975000.00
Robinson, Bryan DT CNB 1500000.00
Rogers, Shaun DT DL 1500000.00

and here is the real money cap value
http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/playersbyposition.aspx?pos=125&order=CapValue+desc
Sort by:
Median salary
Total payroll
Top 25



Position
2007 DT

Player Team Base Salary Sign Bonus Other Bonus Total Salary Cap Value
Williams, Pat Vikings $ 2,650,000 $ 3,750,000 $ 13,550,000 $ 6,750,000 $ 17,804,168
Robertson, Dewayne Jets $ 4,975,000 $ 3,000,000 $ 1,025,000 $ 6,000,000 $ 7,391,369
Sapp, Warren Raiders $ 4,800,000 $ 0 $ 100,000 $ 4,900,000 $ 6,397,000
Williams, Kevin (DT) Vikings $ 3,000,000 $ 5,500,000 $ 500,000 $ 9,000,000 $ 6,209,249
Griffin, Cornelius Redskins $ 4,200,000 $ 2,915,000 $ 0 $ 4,200,000 $ 6,166,333
Haynesworth, Albert Titans $ 5,553,334 $ 0 $ 4,680 $ 5,558,014 $ 6,046,349
Coleman, Roderick Falcons $ 4,000,000 $ 0 $ 2,520 $ 4,002,520 $ 5,920,020
McFarland, Anthony Colts $ 5,500,000 $ 0 $ 480 $ 5,500,480 $ 5,500,480
Jenkins, Kris Panthers $ 3,200,000 $ 960,000 $ 275,000 $ 3,375,000 $ 4,714,618
Bernard, Rocky Seahawks $ 3,000,000 $ 4,500,000 $ 2,400 $ 3,002,400 $ 4,502,400
Henderson, John Jaguars $ 605,000 $ 6,450,000 $ 2,600,000 $ 3,205,000 $ 4,495,000
Redding, Cory Lions $ 625,000 $ 11,000,000 $ 2,000,000 $ 13,625,000 $ 4,458,333
Thornton, John Bengals $ 3,250,000 $ 3,750,000 $ 500,000 $ 3,750,000 $ 4,375,000
Hampton, Casey Steelers $ 1,760,000 $ 2,500,000 $ 300,000 $ 4,360,000 $ 4,337,083
Smith, Shaun Browns $ 750,000 $ 0 $ 3,497,500 $ 3,000,000 $ 4,197,500
Robbins, Fred Giants $ 2,500,000 $ 0 $ 750,000 $ 3,250,000 $ 4,126,666
Dockett, Darnell Cardinals $ 510,000 $ 0 $ 3,504,800 $ 4,014,800 $ 4,014,800
Glover, La'Roi Rams $ 3,000,000 $ 3,000,000 $ 2,640 $ 3,002,640 $ 4,002,640
Tripplett, Larry Bills $ 1,685,000 $ 5,500,000 $ 1,002,280 $ 2,687,280 $ 3,787,280
Rogers, Shaun Lions $ 1,500,000 $ 0 $ 4,920 $ 1,504,920 $ 3,682,286
Ferguson, Jason Cowboys $ 2,000,000 $ 8,125,000 $ 4,440 $ 2,004,440 $ 3,629,440
Young, Brian Saints $ 2,450,000 $ 3,600,000 $ 50,000 $ 2,500,000 $ 3,400,000
Thomas, Hollis Saints $ 2,000,000 $ 3,820,000 $ 250,000 $ 5,870,000 $ 3,205,000
Sands, Terdell Raiders $ 800,000 $ 4,000,000 $ 2,000,000 $ 6,200,000 $ 3,200,000
Holliday, Vonnie Dolphins $ 800,000 $ 5,000,000 $ 1,100,000 $ 6,900,000 $ 3,150,000
Kemoeatu, Ma'ake Panthers $ 900,000 $ 1,500,000 $ 100,000 $ 2,500,000 $ 3,075,000
Patterson, Mike Eagles $ 543,750 $ 4,500,000 $ 105,520 $ 5,049,270 $ 3,020,520
Williams, Jamal Chargers $ 2,500,000 $ 2,000,000 $ 1,560 $ 2,501,560 $ 2,901,560
Stroud, Marcus Jaguars $ 1,415,000 $ 6,500,000 $ 100,000 $ 1,515,000 $ 2,815,000
Harris, Tommie Bears $ 765,000 $ 2,100,000 $ 1,324,200 $ 1,989,200 $ 2,650,450
Lewis, Damione Panthers $ 1,200,000 $ 1,500,000 $ 600,000 $ 1,800,000 $ 2,550,000
Pickett, Ryan Packers $ 1,475,000 $ 2,000,000 $ 625,000 $ 2,000,000 $ 2,500,000
Hovan, Chris Buccaneers $ 1,000,000 $ 3,500,000 $ 6,360 $ 1,006,360 $ 2,306,360
Washington, Ted Browns $ 1,150,000 $ 1,000,000 $ 650,000 $ 2,250,000 $ 2,250,000
Robinson, Bryan Bengals $ 1,500,000 $ 1,600,000 $ 100,000 $ 1,600,000 $ 2,133,334
Brown, Tony Titans $ 2,093,125 $ 0 $ 5,640 $ 2,005,640 $ 2,005,640
Ngata, Haloti Ravens $ 360,000 $ 0 $ 1,626,920 $ 6,496,920 $ 1,895,670
Meier, Rob Jaguars $ 1,095,000 $ 1,080,000 $ 1,305,280 $ 1,100,280 $ 1,860,280
Walker, Darwin Bears $ 1,400,000 $ 500,000 $ 400,000 $ 1,900,000 $ 1,800,000
Bannan, Justin Ravens $ 1,000,000 $ 3,000,000 $ 2,760 $ 1,002,760 $ 1,752,760
Franklin, Aubrayo 49ers $ 650,000 $ 0 $ 450,000 $ 3,000,000 $ 1,733,333
Bunkley, Brodrick Eagles $ 360,000 $ 0 $ 2,389,400 $ 6,790,400 $ 1,650,400
Okoye, Amobi Texans $ 285,000 $ 0 $ 4,162,500 $ 1,630,000 $ 1,630,000
Gregg, Kelly Ravens $ 800,000 $ 2,500,000 $ 1,080 $ 3,301,080 $ 1,617,746
Jackson, Grady Falcons $ 1,000,000 $ 250,000 $ 401,800 $ 1,651,800 $ 1,585,133
Reagor, Montae Eagles $ 720,000 $ 1,200,000 $ 403,360 $ 2,323,360 $ 1,523,360
Wyms, Ellis Seahawks $ 1,500,000 $ 0 $ 0 $ 1,500,000 $ 1,500,000
Castillo, Luis Chargers $ 498,500 $ 1,380,000 $ 5,520 $ 504,020 $ 1,412,520
Edwards, Ron Chiefs $ 600,000 $ 1,000,000 $ 553,960 $ 2,103,960 $ 1,353,960
Clancy, Kendrick Saints $ 1,250,000 $ 250,000 $ 200,480 $ 1,500,480 $ 1,333,813
Joseph, William Giants $ 705,000 $ 0 $ 245,000 $ 705,000 $ 1,328,774
McCargo, John Bills $ 360,000 $ 0 $ 718,720 $ 4,173,720 $ 1,316,220
Darby, Chartric Seahawks $ 1,000,000 $ 0 $ 1,440 $ 1,001,440 $ 1,268,108
Adams, Sam Broncos $ 1,000,000 $ 250,000 $ 251,200 $ 1,251,200 $ 1,251,200
Harrell, Justin Packers $ 285,000 $ 0 $ 2,512,000 $ 1,247,000 $ 1,247,000
Wilfork, Vince Patriots $ 600,000 $ 3,000,000 $ 5,160 $ 605,160 $ 1,238,494
Adams, Anthony Bears $ 750,000 $ 750,000 $ 300,000 $ 1,800,000 $ 1,237,500
Tubbs, Marcus Seahawks $ 655,000 $ 2,000,000 $ 5,280 $ 660,280 $ 1,207,780
Hoke, Chris Steelers $ 600,000 $ 1,500,000 $ 6,240 $ 2,106,240 $ 1,147,908
Boone, Alfonso Chiefs $ 720,000 $ 1,000,000 $ 200,000 $ 1,882,500 $ 1,132,500
Traylor, Keith Dolphins $ 820,000 $ 400,000 $ 50,000 $ 1,270,000 $ 1,070,000
Cody, Shaun Lions $ 435,000 $ 760,000 $ 75,000 $ 510,000 $ 1,035,000
Lake, Ant Aints $ 750,000 $ 450,000 $ 50,000 $ 1,250,000 $ 1,025,000 Scott, Ian PHL $ 650,000 $ 350,000 $ 2,280 $ 1,002,280 $ 1,002,280
Zgonina, Jef HOU $ 825,000 $ 250,000 $ 50,000 $ 1,125,000 $ 1,000,000 Cooper, Chri Cardinals $ 650,000 $ 0 $ 252,520 $ 902,520 $ 902,520
Williams, Co Packers $ 850,000 $ 96,000 $ 1,920 $ 851,920 $ 875,920
Kelley, Ethan Browns $ 850,000 $ 0 $ 5,400 $ 855,400 $ 855,400
Terrill, Craig Seahawks $ 850,000 $ 0 $ 5,280 $ 855,280 $ 855,280
Starks, Randy Titans $ 850,000 $ 0 $ 3,840 $ 853,840 $ 853,840
Anderson, Tim Bills $ 850,000 $ 0 $ 2,760 $ 852,760 $ 852,760
Edwards, D Ravens $ 510,000 $ 1,150,000 $ 5,880 $ 515,880 $ 840,880 Branch, Alan Cards $ 285,000 $ 2,000,000 $ 0 $ 2,285,000 $ 785,000
Myers, MichBengals $ 720,000 $ 100,000 $ 3,840 $ 823,840 $ 773,840
Simon, Corey Titans $ 720,000 $ 0 $ 280,000 $ 760,000 $ 740,000
Babineaux, Jon ATL $ 435,000 $ 1,150,000 $ 4,680 $ 439,680 $ 727,180 Reed, Jame Chefs $ 595,000 $ 200,000 $ 253,240 $ 798,240 $ 664,906
Moorehead, K Pant $ 600,000 $ 40,000 $ 135,000 $ 650,000 $ 650,000
Sims, Ryan Buccaneers $ 595,000 $ 0 $ 3,000 $ 598,000 $ 598,000
Warren, Gerard Raiders $ 595,000 $ 0 $ 4,000,000 $ 595,000 $ 595,000 McBride, Tk KC$ 285,000 $ 1,140,000 $ 320,000 $ 1,425,000 $ 570,000 Sopoaga, Is 9ers $ 460,000 $ 438,000 $ 105,000 $ 460,000 $ 569,500
Dvoracek, D Bears $ 360,000 $ 754,500 $ 4,680 $ 364,680 $ 553,305
Pouha, Sione Jets $ 385,000 $ 613,000 $ 5,880 $ 390,880 $ 544,130
Boschetti, Ryan Redskins $ 510,000 $ 0 $ 6,480 $ 516,480 $ 516,480
Maddox, Anthony Texans $ 510,000 $ 0 $ 6,240 $ 516,240 $ 516,240
Bradley, Jon Lions $ 510,000 $ 0 $ 1,920 $ 511,920 $ 511,920
Fields, Ronald 49ers $ 435,000 $ 189,000 $ 5,400 $ 440,400 $ 487,650 Wroten, Clau Rams $ 360,000 $ 805,000 $ 4,680 $ 279,974 $ 481,224
Garay, Antonio Bears $ 510,000 $ 0 $ 0 $ 480,000 $ 480,000
Watson, Gabe Cards $ 360,000 $ 347,500 $ 3,960 $ 363,960 $ 479,793 Klecko, Dan Colts $ 595,000 $ 40,000 $ 3,840 $ 638,840 $ 478,840
Kuehl, Ryan Giants $ 720,000 $ 40,000 $ 3,240 $ 763,240 $ 478,240
Peko, Domata CIN $ 360,000 $ 407,000 $ 5,160 $ 365,160 $ 466,910
Cofield, Barry Giants $ 360,000 $ 404,625 $ 5,040 $ 365,040 $ 466,196 Alford, Jay Giants $ 285,000 $ 718,000 $ 0 $ 1,003,000 $ 464,500
Tyler, Tank Chiefs $ 285,000 $ 525,000 $ 0 $ 810,000 $ 460,000
Mebane, Brandon Sea $ 285,000 $ 681,000 $ 0 $ 966,000 $ 455,250
Mosley, C.J. Jets $ 435,000 $ 0 $ 15,040 $ 450,040 $ 450,040
Johnson, Tank Cowboys $ 510,000 $ 0 $ 0 $ 270,000 $ 450,000
Bingham, Ryon Chargers $ 435,000 $ 0 $ 5,880 $ 440,880 $ 440,880
Wright, Mike Patriots $ 435,000 $ 0 $ 5,640 $ 440,640 $ 440,640
Reid, Darrell Colts $ 435,000 $ 2,000 $ 4,800 $ 439,800 $ 440,468
Moore, Langston Lions $ 595,000 $ 0 $ 5,400 $ 600,400 $ 440,400
Cole, Colin Packers $ 595,000 $ 0 $ 5,160 $ 600,160 $ 440,160
Jefferson, Jason Bills $ 435,000 $ 0 $ 5,160 $ 440,160 $ 440,160
Kolodziej, Ross Cardinals $ 595,000 $ 0 $ 3,480 $ 598,480 $ 438,480
Ellison, Atiyyah 49ers $ 435,000 $ 0 $ 0 $ 435,000 $ 435,000
Pitcock, Quinn Colts $ 285,000 $ 436,500 $ 0 $ 721,500 $ 430,500
Williams, Kyle Bills $ 360,000 $ 193,000 $ 3,960 $ 363,960 $ 412,210
Killings, Cedric Texans $ 720,000 $ 0 $ 0 $ 340,000 $ 409,412
Davis, Russell Giants $ 720,000 $ 0 $ 40,000 $ 677,647 $ 409,412
Montgomery, A skins $ 360,000 $ 123,475 $ 5,880 $ 365,880 $ 407,038 Soliai, Paul Dolphins $ 285,000 $ 470,000 $ 0 $ 755,000 $ 402,500
Thomas, Marcus Broncos $ 285,000 $ 428,000 $ 0 $ 713,000 $ 392,000 Jolly, Johnny Packs $ 360,000 $ 94,600 $ 5,160 $ 365,160 $ 388,810
Golston, Kedric skins $ 360,000 $ 65,575 $ 6,600 $ 366,600 $ 388,458
Brown, Kareem Patriots $ 285,000 $ 409,500 $ 0 $ 694,500 $ 387,375
Ramsey, LaJu Eagles $ 360,000 $ 73,000 $ 6,120 $ 366,120 $ 384,370
Smith, Le Kevin Pats $ 360,000 $ 71,000 $ 5,640 $ 365,640 $ 383,390
McDaniel, Tony Jags $ 360,000 $ 7,500 $ 5,280 $ 365,280 $ 367,780
Burton, Antwon Broncos $ 360,000 $ 0 $ 6,360 $ 366,360 $ 366,360
Gordon, Amon Broncos $ 360,000 $ 0 $ 6,360 $ 366,360 $ 366,360

Requiem / The Dagda
12-08-2007, 01:57 PM
Honestly? Probably the whole way short.

dogfish
12-08-2007, 03:52 PM
I really think one MAJOR player like Hanesworth would solve almost all the problems on Defense.. You saw the impact he had when he did not play against us they went from a top 5 run defense to schmucks allowing us to run all over them.. It also hampered the pass defense..

If I were mikey I would make an all out run on him as a FA.. I would not allow him to leave town without a signed contract..

With a multi year contract on him and all the rookies we would only need to draft a DL type every other year on day on day one. For the next decade.


dream recently brought it to my attention that green bay DT corey williams will be an unrestricted free agent this offseason-- as far as i'm concerned, he and not haynseworth should be our top target, the guy we go all-out to get. . . . he may not be as big a name, but he's an ascending talent who's just coming into his prime (27), and who has a much, much less checkered past than haynseworth. . . remember, stompy has had problems with immaturity and violent outbursts his whole career-- the guy has been dogged by accusations of loafing from the minute he came into the league, and he's also one blowup away from a major suspension after being suspended five games last year for what he did to gurrode. . . he's an unmotivated lardass who'll probably shut it down the minute he gets a big signing bonus. . . seriously, does anyone REALLY think it's some kind of coincidence that the guy raises his game about five notches in his contract year. . . ?

williams, on the other hand, is a guy who's made steady progress since he first got some starting time (last year, i think). . . he's a big part of green bay's stout run defense, and can also collapse the pocket-- he has 7 sacks this year to fat albert's 5, and 3 forced fumbles compared to none for haynseworth. . .

just as importnatly, i suspect he won't cost quite as much, and he'll probably work harder. . . another bonus is that he's familiar with bates' scheme because they still run it in GB-- he's proven to be effective in it, and bates knows his strengths and how to use him properly. . .

Lonestar
12-08-2007, 04:06 PM
dream recently brought it to my attention that green bay DT corey williams will be an unrestricted free agent this offseason-- as far as i'm concerned, he and not haynseworth should be our top target, the guy we go all-out to get. . . . he may not be as big a name, but he's an ascending talent who's just coming into his prime (27), and who has a much, much less checkered past than haynseworth. . . remember, stompy has had problems with immaturity and violent outbursts his whole career-- the guy has been dogged by accusations of loafing from the minute he came into the league, and he's also one blowup away from a major suspension after being suspended five games last year for what he did to gurrode. . . he's an unmotivated lardass who'll probably shut it down the minute he gets a big signing bonus. . . seriously, does anyone REALLY think it's some kind of coincidence that the guy raises his game about five notches in his contract year. . . ?

williams, on the other hand, is a guy who's made steady progress since he first got some starting time (last year, i think). . . he's a big part of green bay's stout run defense, and can also collapse the pocket-- he has 7 sacks this year to fat albert's 5, and 3 forced fumbles compared to none for haynseworth. . .

just as importnatly, i suspect he won't cost quite as much, and he'll probably work harder. . . another bonus is that he's familiar with bates' scheme because they still run it in GB-- he's proven to be effective in it, and bates knows his strengths and how to use him properly. . .

I have not issues with either of them.. I just know how bad TEN defense was when he was not playing and how good they were with him an MVP type player IMO.. I have not seen the guy from GB.

BUT Remember that the DT for the most part is a guy that is seen, but not heard from in Bates type defense. He just makes everyone around him look better than is some case than they are..

We just need a biggie guy in there that takes up major space and blockers

topscribe
12-08-2007, 05:01 PM
Providing our players are fully healthy next season, how many players away are we at both lines?

At the DEs, we have Dumerville, Engelberger, Moss, and Crowder. At DT, we have Thomas.

At the OL, we have Lepsis, Hamilton, Nalen, Myers, and Harris.

In the pre-season issue of Sporting News for last season, these were some of the ratings of the guys we picked up, and what they said about them:

Marcus Thomas was considered the top ranked DT in college. He was also in their SEC Honor Roll for Best Run-Stuffing Tackle. In the "An SEC coach says ..." section, they had this to say about Thomas .... "And that's including NT Marcus Thomas, who is just a beast". Thomas was also in their 1st Team All-American. That's how good Thomas was projected to be. Ofcourse, this was all way before he was suspended.

Moss was ranked the 6th best DE in college, and Crowder the 15th. Ryan Harris was ranked the 6th best OT. Moss and Thomas were also on their All-SEC 1st team. Crowder was on their All-Big-12 1st Team.

UFA DT Steven Harris was activated from the practice squad; the only info the magazine has about him is that he was a starter alongside Thomas for Florida, and that he has a mean streak.

So during the draft, we got some top college talent for the DL and the OL, and Thomas may turn out to be quite a steal.

Sometimes, just one player can make a huge difference, as is the case with Tennessee and Haynesworth, so I was thinking, if Jarvis Moss and Ryan Harris can be fully healthy next season, how many players would we need in the draft (or FA) for potential starters on both sides of the line? We seem to be pretty set at the DE possitions; do we only need one quality DT to go with Thomas? If at least Hamilton is healthy, how many players would we need to draft or acquire in FA to be starters for our OL?

If Hamilton and Nalen can come back healthy, the Broncos will have an
exceptional O-line, in depth and first team (although Nalen is pretty old
now, but they still will have depth, IMO).

In the DL, they need two decent DTs. I believe Thomas and Harris have
great upside, and Peterson has been doing a good job. They need depth
there.

Add a real good WLB (draft?), and I believe we will see an entirely different
team out there.

-----

omac
12-08-2007, 06:16 PM
If Hamilton and Nalen can come back healthy, the Broncos will have an
exceptional O-line, in depth and first team (although Nalen is pretty old
now, but they still will have depth, IMO).

In the DL, they need two decent DTs. I believe Thomas and Harris have
great upside, and Peterson has been doing a good job. They need depth
there.

Add a real good WLB (draft?), and I believe we will see an entirely different
team out there.

-----

So when you say we need 2 decent DTs, do you mean we might have them already in Thomas and Harris, or we need 2 more either from the draft or FA; and if we do need 2 more, is that 2 more for starters or for backup depth?

topscribe
12-08-2007, 06:31 PM
I think your correct on your thoughts IF they all come back healthy both lines should be pretty good.

Add to your DE list Ekuban, he was a force last year and if his A heel is healed could bring something to the table and a stabilizing presence on the DL..

We are in dire need for a Hanesworth type DT. Get him or a someone like him and this DL will be set for up wards of a decade with prudent draft reinforcements over the next few years..

It was our total lack of attention to the DL in the draft since we spent a #1 on price in 1998 that has cause the debacle we have had the past 3 years..


The OLINE should be OK with all of the newbies getting experience this year.. The weak will be culled out next year in TC and with perhaps th exception of Nalen retaking his spot I think it will look much like this weeks OLINE, maybe Harris taking either Lepsis (to move him back to RT) or replace Pears (a backup)..


Remember folks you lose or win games on the LOS..

Well no, if Lepsis can recover his health completely, you don't replace him
until he's just too old. I heard from more than one source that he was
playing at a Pro Bowl level before he was injured. But he is getting up there
in years, so Harris might be a good candidate to groom into the position.
The Broncos need someone bigger than Lepsis or Harris at RT, however.

I still have hopes Pears grows into the position. True, he has absolutely
stunk at times, but we must understand he is a second-year player in a
very young line that has never before played together.

An analogy to this line's situation might be right here in Tucson at the
University of Arizona. The O-line was so bad . . . one of the worst I had
ever seen . . . that the likes of Chris Henry couldn't get any rushing yards,
and the QB suffered two or three concussions from repeated pummeling.

However, as the second half of the season came around, the line started
jelling, and the offense came alive, with many more passes completed, the
QB who replaced the first one suffering no injuries, and Henry's runs making
the highlight reels every week.

So I really believe we need to give this O-line time. We do have some good
young men with potential in there, and Pears might be one of them?


You're spot on with Ekuban, though. I believe he is exactly what Denver
needs at LDE. He was a run-stopping fool in the second half last year.

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topscribe
12-08-2007, 06:32 PM
So when you say we need 2 decent DTs, do you mean we might have them already in Thomas and Harris, or we need 2 more either from the draft or FA; and if we do need 2 more, is that 2 more for starters or for backup depth?

Well hopefully, depth, of course. But then, they will all compete for the job.

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omac
12-08-2007, 06:36 PM
Well hopefully, depth, of course. But then, they will all compete for the job.

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Cool, that means we're not that far off players-wise, providing everyone comes back healthy next season. :cheers:

topscribe
12-08-2007, 06:43 PM
Cool, that means we're not that far off players-wise, providing everyone comes back healthy next season. :cheers:

We really aren't, IMO. I've seen so much gloom and doom . . . you know,
the Broncos going to have to replace half the team before the "elite" teams
consider them more than a bye week. So who would that be? Crowder? Moss?
Ekuban? Thomas? D.J.? Champ? Bly? Hamza? Lynch? I think we would be
talking even how good Webster is if he didn't have to contend with all those
free blockers the DL is supposed to pick up.

But the biggest reason they can't pick them up, IMO, is youth and jelling.

Assuming everyone comes back healthy, I believe Denver is maybe three
players away from become a force again: two DTs and a WLB.

Maybe I'm all wet. But I have seen much too much impatience with our
youths out there.

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omac
12-08-2007, 06:53 PM
We really aren't, IMO. I've seen so much gloom and doom . . . you know,
the Broncos going to have to replace half the team before the "elite" teams
consider them more than a bye week. So who would that be? Crowder? Moss?
Ekuban? Thomas? D.J.? Champ? Bly? Hamza? Lynch? I think we would be
talking even how good Webster is if he didn't have to contend with all those
free blockers the DL is supposed to pick up.

But the biggest reason they can't pick them up, IMO, is youth and jelling.

Assuming everyone comes back healthy, I believe Denver is maybe two
players away from become a force again: DT and WLB.

Maybe I'm all wet. But I have seen much too much impatience with our
youths out there.

-----

Yeah, a lot of people are saying the Broncos are playing without heart, or underachieving; yet this is a pretty young group, and this team has a ton of injuries. I really think this team plays hard and does their best, but because of the injuries, rookies and other inexperienced players, or even former practice squad guys or players cut from another team, are being expected to perform at the level of veterans who've been playing alongside each other for years.

I also say give them a chance to get healthy and to gain experience working together as a team.

Retired_Member_001
12-08-2007, 07:04 PM
I think on the offensive line we are a LT, RG and a RT away from having a good offensive line.

I think on the defensive line we are a DT and a DT for depth away from having a good defensive line.

The defensive line is only one major move away from being good. All we really need is a big man in the middle to go along with Marcus Thomas and I think we are there. Jarvis Moss showed tremendous ability when he was playing, hopefully next season he picks up where he left off. Tim Crowder is also showing promise and Dumervil is a Pro Bowl defensive end in my opinion. Marcus Thomas is also looking good. So it's really a new DT and another for depth untill the defensive line is good.

As for the offensive line, we need a replacement for Lepsis. Lepsis is old and weak now, and we need someone better protecting our franchise Quarterback's blind side. We also need a replacement for The Saints Reject (aka Montrae Holland) and George Foster (aka Erik Pears).

That's just my opinion.

dogfish
12-08-2007, 07:14 PM
one small point i'd like to make-- ekuban is a free agent after this year, so it's far from a lock that he'll be part of our rebuilt line going forward. . . achilles injuries can be even more devestating than ACL tears, and older players who suffer them frequently fail to ever fully recover their explosiveness-- and with ekuban there's a fair chance that they may not know until well into the offseason. . . unless he's running full speed when free agency starts, i'd say there's a good chance we may dip into FA to add some veteran depth at end-- it should be just that, though-- depth-- as crowder, moss and dumervil should be ready to form a very solid rotation at DE. . .

i also think that mckinley and peterson are pretty adequate as rotational tackles if we can add one stud DT to start next to thomas. . .

TXBRONC
12-08-2007, 11:07 PM
one small point i'd like to make-- ekuban is a free agent after this year, so it's far from a lock that he'll be part of our rebuilt line going forward. . . achilles injuries can be even more devestating than ACL tears, and older players who suffer them frequently fail to ever fully recover their explosiveness-- and with ekuban there's a fair chance that they may not know until well into the offseason. . . unless he's running full speed when free agency starts, i'd say there's a good chance we may dip into FA to add some veteran depth at end-- it should be just that, though-- depth-- as crowder, moss and dumervil should be ready to form a very solid rotation at DE. . .

i also think that mckinley and peterson are pretty adequate as rotational tackles if we can add one stud DT to start next to thomas. . .


Ekuban has one thing in his favor, by the time camp starts it will be very close to a year since his injury. So he has plenty of time to recover if indeed he is able to do so as you pointed out.

Simple Jaded
12-08-2007, 11:45 PM
The Broncos need more pass rush from the ends, so a DE is still a definite need, imo....

They also need THREE DT's!!! They have McKinley and Thomas, neither of whom have proven they can be a starter....In a perfect world, they'd go after Haynesworth AND Corey Williams!....Maybe even Kris Jenkins if he's cut to make room for Peppers huge contract.

The Broncos need one OT! They need Jordan Gross, he and this system are a perfect match, I think! Apparently Harris is the LT of the future and Pears could be the 3rd back up......If an Elite tackle is there when the Broncos pick, they should take him!!!

I'm actually ok with the guards, I really like Kuper. And I'm one of the few like Holland's play quite a bit.

I would really like to see a different answer to the Tom Nalen's Replacement question, but that's just me....We'll see after the Chargers game coming up, if Myers gets beat like he did against Shaun Rogers, he should be relegated to utility role, imo.

Am I forgetting anybody?:D

Of course this is all assuming the Broncos have no intention of scraping the Mini-me Offensive Line philosophy...Which they never will......

dogfish
12-09-2007, 12:26 AM
The Broncos need one OT! They need Jordan Gross, he and this system are a perfect match, I think!


yea, gross would be a good addition-- you're right that he's a good fit in the ZBS, and he's a far, far superior athlete to eric pears. . . i'm not saying that pears can't continue to grow and develop, but he'll never have feet like gross. . . .