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broncofaninfla
09-24-2009, 03:17 PM
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5261 (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5261)

Broncos first-round pick Robert Ayers is struggling to learn coordinator Mike Nolan's defense.

"He's acting rather than reacting," according to the Denver Post, which adds that Ayers wasn't even all-SEC. "He's lining up wrong, going to the wrong spots and seems to have no clue." Ayers has zero tackles through two weeks.
Source: Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com/sportsheadlines/ci_13403979?source=rss)

Dortoh
09-24-2009, 03:27 PM
I think he was a high potential project when we took him. While I'm certainly concerned I'm going to give it a full season and into next year before I become concerned.

NightTrainLayne
09-24-2009, 03:28 PM
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5261 (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5261)

Broncos first-round pick Robert Ayers is struggling to learn coordinator Mike Nolan's defense.

"He's acting rather than reacting," according to the Denver Post, which adds that Ayers wasn't even all-SEC. "He's lining up wrong, going to the wrong spots and seems to have no clue." Ayers has zero tackles through two weeks.
Source: Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com/sportsheadlines/ci_13403979?source=rss)


;) Well. The source is Woody Paige's mail-bag. :ranger:

honz
09-24-2009, 03:29 PM
They are quoting some hack writer from the Denver Post, not any coaches...FWIW. The fact that Ayers is on the field in important situations tells me that he isn't as bad as that Denver Post writer thinks.

broncohead
09-24-2009, 03:31 PM
I'll give him 2 seasons before I label him a bust but I said even before he was drafted that he is a 4-3 DE. I really hope he produces though

honz
09-24-2009, 03:32 PM
;) Well. The source is Woody Paige's mail-bag. :ranger:

I read that earlier today, but couldn't remember where it was from...that fact that Woody said it, well let's just say he's not the most credible football analyst.

TXBRONC
09-24-2009, 04:00 PM
I read that earlier today, but couldn't remember where it was from...that fact that Woody said it, well let's just say he's not the most credible football analyst.

Woody is right Ayers has no tackles. So there is pretty good chance that he's right in the instance. That being said it doesn't mean that Ayers wont develop into solid linebacker for us.

Dortoh
09-24-2009, 04:04 PM
IMO when you consider where he was taken he was McD's biggest roll of the dice in the draft.....yes including moving up for the mini-me nickel corner............who by the way looks like he is in position to be my first bowl of crow soup.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/3225/Eating_Crow.jpg

rationalfan
09-24-2009, 04:45 PM
perhaps it's just optimism, but i like to think of ayers in terms of some of the outside linebackers drafted by the steelers. those guys rarely start in the first year or two, but do become good players.

Lonestar
09-24-2009, 04:55 PM
I think he was a high potential project when we took him. While I'm certainly concerned I'm going to give it a full season and into next year before I become concerned.

in years past draft choices were given a couple three training camps before getting cut loose..

I do not think we have much to worry about this kid, he is making perhaps the biggest transition one can going from college to the NFL..

very few rookies make it big doing what he is trying to do this year..

Dortoh
09-24-2009, 05:12 PM
in years past draft choices were given a couple three training camps before getting cut loose..

I do not think we have much to worry about this kid, he is making perhaps the biggest transition one can going from college to the NFL..

very few rookies make it big doing what he is trying to do this year..

In the past I would agree but in todays age of free agents the win now mantra suggests you need your 1st round picks to play and play now.

Right or wrong I dont know but that is how they are judged now.

dogfish
09-24-2009, 05:17 PM
;) Well. The source is Woody Paige's mail-bag. :ranger:

ahh, the windbag's mail-bag. . . .



:uselessgarbage:

milehigh
09-24-2009, 05:19 PM
He has played Defensive end his whole life, now their asking him to play a completely new position. I will give him more than two NFL games with limited action before I make any knee jerk reactions, it's still week 3 right? Woody Paige is a descent writer but unfortunately for him he doesn't know jack about sports.

Tned
09-24-2009, 05:32 PM
I think it was Mayoc, who nailed it when he said Cutler would be the best QB in the '06 draft, said that he believes in three years Ayers will be considered the best defensive player drafted in '09.

He did not say he would be the best player this year, but that it would take time for him to develop, learn the 3-4 and become dominant, but in time would be considered the best defensive player selected in the '09 draft.

Hopefully, he is dead on with Ayers, like he was with Cutler.

honz
09-24-2009, 05:36 PM
I think it was Mayoc, who nailed it when he said Cutler would be the best QB in the '06 draft, said that he believes in three years Ayers will be considered the best defensive player drafted in '09.

He did not say he would be the best player this year, but that it would take time for him to develop, learn the 3-4 and become dominant, but in time would be considered the best defensive player selected in the '09 draft.

Hopefully, he is dead on with Ayers, like he was with Cutler.

I'm sorry, but Jay Cutler sucks.

Superchop 7
09-24-2009, 05:41 PM
Orakpo seems to be making the transition.

MUG was all over this guy and he isn't wrong too often, so we'll see.

Slick
09-24-2009, 05:55 PM
Orakpo seems to be making the transition.

MUG was all over this guy and he isn't wrong too often, so we'll see.

What does that have to do with Ayers?

Dortoh
09-24-2009, 05:57 PM
Orakpo seems to be making the transition.

MUG was all over this guy and he isn't wrong too often, so we'll see.

You need to keep in mind even most of the "experts" had Ayers labeled as most likely a promising prospect that was raw and needed coached up. Could he be a bust you bet but in this case you cant come to that conclussion just yet.

Him not making an instant impact is not a surprise to very many IMO

Lonestar
09-24-2009, 06:00 PM
I think it was Mayoc, who nailed it when he said Cutler would be the best QB in the '06 draft, said that he believes in three years Ayers will be considered the best defensive player drafted in '09.

He did not say he would be the best player this year, but that it would take time for him to develop, learn the 3-4 and become dominant, but in time would be considered the best defensive player selected in the '09 draft.

Hopefully, he is dead on with Ayers, like he was with Cutler.

I believe he used the words "when we look back at this draft, he will be the best defensive player in it"..

the only folks that are yelling the sky is falling are woody and a few that expect everything right NOW..

Lonestar
09-24-2009, 06:02 PM
Orakpo seems to be making the transition.

MUG was all over this guy and he isn't wrong too often, so we'll see.



is orakapo playing an OLB on a team that is transitioning to a 3-4.. if he is then I guess it is a fair comparsion.. if not then lets talk apples and apples..

Bronco9798
09-24-2009, 06:09 PM
I believe he used the words "when we look back at this draft, he will be the best defensive player in it"..

the only folks that are yelling the sky is falling are woody and a few that expect everything right NOW..

When your feet are on the field and you are drafted in the 1st round you are expected to provide immediate results and contributions. He should be making an impact right now, but he's not. It goes with where he was picked.

Lonestar
09-24-2009, 06:13 PM
When your feet are on the field and you are drafted in the 1st round you are expected to provide immediate results and contributions. He should be making an impact right now, but he's not. It goes with where he was picked.

I'm glad your not the GM or HC .. or none of our players would have been picked..

some time you take someone KNOWING they are going to be a project.. and converting from DE hand on the ground going in one direction, to playing in space sometimes going back wards just might take more Than a few games..

if the coaches are not worried why are you?

Bronco9798
09-24-2009, 06:21 PM
I'm glad your not the GM or HC .. or none of our players would have been picked..

some time you take someone KNOWING they are going to be a project.. and converting from DE hand on the ground going in one direction, to playing in space sometimes going back wards just might take more Than a few games..

if the coaches are not worried why are you?

Never said I was worried. I can't find that quote in my post, sorry. It was just my opinion. Sorry you don't agree. You take projects in the later rounds. The NFL is a win now league. Your first round picks are expected to make immediate impacts, sorry if you disagree, but they are. Like me, I'm glad you found your way to the football message boards and not in the profession of coaching.

Requiem / The Dagda
09-24-2009, 06:25 PM
Off the top of my head, I remember Ayers being around a step away from the QB when Dumervil had his sacks off the edge. He isn't there yet, not even close -- but I'm not going to start dogging him. He generated some decent pressure last games. Some things don't show up in the stat sheets, but he did some solid stuff last game. FWIW, the others playing LOLB haven't been that impressive either. Our safeties have done a nice job being aggressive (in particular Dawkins) in run support and the play of Davis and Dumervil are nothing to snooze at.

Ayers is making a transition and it is going to take some time. I was never a fan of Orakpo for the sheer fact that Texas does a horrendous job of mentally preparing their players for the NFL. At the very least, we should be happy that Dumervil is making the transition well and it is assumed (by many) that Robert will be able to do so as well. The comparison someone made to the Steelers seems very apt. I think Ayers will have a Lamar Woodley like transition period in the NFL. Decent rookie outing, fantastic sophomore.

No worries at all.

Bronco9798
09-24-2009, 06:34 PM
Off the top of my head, I remember Ayers being around a step away from the QB when Dumervil had his sacks off the edge. He isn't there yet, not even close -- but I'm not going to start dogging him. He generated some decent pressure last games. Some things don't show up in the stat sheets, but he did some solid stuff last game. FWIW, the others playing LOLB haven't been that impressive either. Our safeties have done a nice job being aggressive (in particular Dawkins) in run support and the play of Davis and Dumervil are nothing to snooze at.

Ayers is making a transition and it is going to take some time. I was never a fan of Orakpo for the sheer fact that Texas does a horrendous job of mentally preparing their players for the NFL. At the very least, we should be happy that Dumervil is making the transition well and it is assumed (by many) that Robert will be able to do so as well. The comparison someone made to the Steelers seems very apt. I think Ayers will have a Lamar Woodley like transition period in the NFL. Decent rookie outing, fantastic sophomore.

No worries at all.

I'm not saying he won't develop into a good player as time goes on. I just think at where he was picked he should be making more of a contribution and hopefully he will. Right now as of week 2, the team hasn't needed him as the unit as a whole hes been playing well. I was no where close to slamming the guy or worried about him, just making an observation.

I pull and root for all the players to do well and produce. I'm a fan of the team and pull for all of them. I like Orton, a lot of people don't. I hated Cutler with a passion, but I rooted and pulled for him every week for 3 hours every week. Outside of Sundays or Mondays, I couldn't stand the guy.

Tned
09-24-2009, 06:37 PM
I'm not saying he won't develop into a good player as time goes on. I just think at where he was picked he should be making more of a contribution and hopefully he will. Right now as of week 2, the team hasn't needed him as the unit as a whole hes been playing well. I was no where close to slamming the guy or worried about him, just making an observation.

I pull and root for all the players to do well and produce. I'm a fan of the team and pull for all of them. I like Orton, a lot of people don't. I hated Cutler with a passion, but I rooted and pulled for him every week for 3 hours every week. Outside of Sundays or Mondays, I couldn't stand the guy.

Most of the 'experts' that wrote about the Broncos in the off-season expected Ayers to be an impact player this year.

Bronco9798
09-24-2009, 06:40 PM
Most of the 'experts' that wrote about the Broncos in the off-season expected Ayers to be an impact player this year.

So did I and hopefully he will. He's getting paid pretty good money to be on the field.

Requiem / The Dagda
09-24-2009, 06:41 PM
I'm not saying he won't develop into a good player as time goes on. I just think at where he was picked he should be making more of a contribution and hopefully he will. Right now as of week 2, the team hasn't needed him as the unit as a whole hes been playing well. I was no where close to slamming the guy or worried about him, just making an observation.

I pull and root for all the players to do well and produce. I'm a fan of the team and pull for all of them. I like Orton, a lot of people don't. I hated Cutler with a passion, but I rooted and pulled for him every week for 3 hours every week. Outside of Sundays or Mondays, I couldn't stand the guy.

I understand your concerns and expectations of him. I didn't like Ayers at all and after we drafted Moreno I told my buddies that I'd probably jump off the roof if we took Robert. I felt he was too raw, but you can definitely see what he can become if he puts it all together.

Hopefully he'll make the most out of the chances he has got. However, I feel that he'll learn under guys like Haggan and Dumervil for the most part this year, and then ascend in the future. Lets hope he does!

LRtagger
09-24-2009, 06:51 PM
Funny...Lets look at the other top defensive picks so far this year.

Tyson Jackson - 2 tackles, 0 sacks
Aaron Curry - 8 Tackles, 0 sacks
BJ Raji - 0 Tackles, 0 sacks
Aaron Maybin - 1 Tackle, 0 sacks
Brian Orakpo - 2 Tackles, 0 sacks
Malcolm Jenkins - 4 Tackles, 0 pass defensed, 0 ints
Brian Cushing - 18 tackles, 0 sacks
Larry English - 2 Tackles, 0 sacks
Robert Ayers - 0 Tackles, 0 sacks
Peria Jerry - 1 Tackle, 0 sacks
Vontae Davis - 1 Tackle, 0 pass defensed, 0 ints
Clay Matthews - 3 Tackles, 1 sack
Evander Hood - 0 Tackles, 0 sacks

So, as you can see...Ayers isn't too far behind any of the other 2009 first round picks. Cushing is the only one who has made a huge impact on his defense...a defense that has given up 55 points in the first two games. I wouldn't necessarily give up on Ayers just yet. Yea he looks lost, but he is learning a new position...he has still shown flashes that he can be a great player. It will take time.

LRtagger
09-24-2009, 06:55 PM
Orakpo seems to be making the transition.


The transition to what, exactly? He's not playing a new position, so I'll assume you mean the transition to the NFL.

He was good in the preseason, but he has 2 tackles and 0 sacks playing beside the best tackle in the league getting doubled on every play.

Tned
09-24-2009, 07:00 PM
The transition to what, exactly? He's not playing a new position, so I'll assume you mean the transition to the NFL.

He was good in the preseason, but he has 2 tackles and 0 sacks playing beside the best tackle in the league getting doubled on every play.

I was under the impression that Orakpo was a DE in college and LB in the NFL. I haven't watched any Redskin games, so I don't know if they stuck with the plan to play him at LB, or if they have been playing him at DE, his natural position.

LRtagger
09-24-2009, 07:00 PM
I was under the impression that Orakpo was a DE in college and LB in the NFL. I haven't watched any Redskin games, so I don't know if they stuck with the plan to play him at LB, or if they have been playing him at DE, his natural position.

He is playing DE in a 4-3...at least that is where I saw him in the preseason. Haven't watched regular season.

Tned
09-24-2009, 07:02 PM
He is playing DE in a 4-3

In the OTA's and I believe early in camp, he was working as an LB, so that is proabably why Chop assumed he made a position transition. That had been the talk all offseason. They apparently scrapped that plan for some reason.

Tned
09-24-2009, 07:04 PM
He is playing DE in a 4-3...at least that is where I saw him in the preseason. Haven't watched regular season.

Per Rotoworld:


Brian Orakpo-LB- Redskins Sep. 14 - 8:50 am et

Redskins rookie Brian Orakpo started Sunday's opener at strong-side linebacker but finished with just two tackles.

The prized rookie simply didn't have a big impact on the game. Orakpo lined up on the edge often but wasn't able to bother Eli Manning at all. Expect better games in the future as he continues to learn how to play with his hand up.
http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/playerpages/player_previousnews.aspx?sport=NFl&id=5215

LRtagger
09-24-2009, 07:07 PM
Just checked their depth chart and he is listed as a SAM, but just watching a few clips of their D I see him sometimes lined up at DE. Either way, 2 tackles and 0 sacks is not exactly blowing Ayers out of the water...especially considering Orakpo is starting and Ayers is not.

LRtagger
09-24-2009, 07:09 PM
Per Rotoworld:

Yep, my mistake, what I remembered seeing of him in preseason was at DE...but like I said, he does not seem to be transitioning any better than Ayers.

I hi-5'd Chop for being right and me being wrong :balloons:

milehigh
09-24-2009, 07:15 PM
Orakpo seems to be making the transition.

MUG was all over this guy and he isn't wrong too often, so we'll see.

Orakpo is playing the DE in the 4-3, what does that have to do with Ayers?

shank
09-24-2009, 07:20 PM
Orakpo seems to be making the transition.

MUG was all over this guy and he isn't wrong too often, so we'll see.

MUG loved ian gold. :coffee:

Kaylore
09-24-2009, 08:29 PM
FWIW before last game McDaniels mentioned in one of his press conferences that Ayers had a good week of practice and is coming along. I don't remember him being out of position in the game, and as Req pointed out, he was getting decent pressure. Two games into the season I'm not even a little worried. In fact if he wasn't even playing I still wouldn't be worried.

shank
09-24-2009, 09:13 PM
FWIW before last game McDaniels mentioned in one of his press conferences that Ayers had a good week of practice and is coming along. I don't remember him being out of position in the game, and as Req pointed out, he was getting decent pressure. Two games into the season I'm not even a little worried. In fact if he wasn't even playing I still wouldn't be worried.

IIRC he was just behind doom gettin to the qb on doom's back to back sacks.

jhildebrand
09-25-2009, 12:01 AM
Ayers will be fine. Look at Tyson Jackson the #3 overall pick. He has 1 tackle! And he has the familiarity of having a former linemate on the line with him in Dorsey.

Mario Williams was talked about the same way as Ayers is now. The problem is players need time to develop especially when you consider the state of our line to begin the season and the number of changes the team is making i.e. 3-4 from 4-3

FanInAZ
09-25-2009, 12:31 AM
He has played Defensive end his whole life, now their asking him to play a completely new position. I will give him more than two NFL games with limited action before I make any knee jerk reactions, it's still week 3 right? Woody Paige is a descent writer but unfortunately for him he doesn't know jack about sports.

At least he provides good comic relief on "Around the Horn."

FanInAZ
09-25-2009, 12:36 AM
I'll give him 2 seasons before I label him a bust but I said even before he was drafted that he is a 4-3 DE. I really hope he produces though

I've always heard it said that it take 3-4 years before you say that someone is a bust. In any case, its ridiculous to call any player a bust after just 2 games.

TXBRONC
09-25-2009, 09:16 AM
IIRC he was just behind doom gettin to the qb on doom's back to back sacks.

I had forgotten he was on the field at that time. Anyway, that would mean Ayers was having to deal with Joe Thomas since Dumervil is the LOLB.

shank
09-25-2009, 10:43 AM
I had forgotten he was on the field at that time. Anyway, that would mean Ayers was having to deal with Joe Thomas since Dumervil is the LOLB.

on the first of doom's back-to-back sacks, ayers bullrushed thomas and pushed him straight back into the quinn as doom took him down.

on the second sack, ayers stunted and rushed against the LG, and pushed him straight back as well. both plays, he got there just after doom made the play.

if it wasn't for doom, this thread probably wouldn't exist.

TXBRONC
09-25-2009, 11:02 AM
on the first of doom's back-to-back sacks, ayers bullrushed thomas and pushed him straight back into the quinn as doom took him down.

on the second sack, ayers stunted and rushed against the LG, and pushed him straight back as well. both plays, he got there just after doom made the play.

if it wasn't for doom, this thread probably wouldn't exist.

What that shows is that in both instances Ayers was able to help put pressure on the quarterback.

underrated29
09-25-2009, 11:28 AM
Man i cant even imagine what this place or this thread is going to be like once we lose a game.

People are already calling out ayers and such. Man when we lose it will probably be fire josh, scrap the whole team. Phonzie,ayers,know are a waste. We need to totally scrap this thing out and start over anew.


You people are crazy.

You know how i have proof of this?

JR- the infinite synic. Is telling you guys are off and jumping the gun to early. If JR is saying it then you know there is something wrong.


No offense JR.

TXBRONC
09-25-2009, 01:04 PM
Well lets hope losses don't come for awhile.

Kaylore
09-25-2009, 03:06 PM
I rewatched every snap of Ayers. He only comes in on third down and plays DE. At first he didn't even look like he had a decent bull rush. Things got a bit better as the game wears on. It will take some time before we see him much because if they're only bringing him on passing downs and then only to rush the passer then that means it will be awhile before they ask him to do much more. However at least he's on the field and he seems like he could have a decent spin move he's developing.

Tempus Fugit
09-26-2009, 12:12 AM
It's 2 games into a rookie season and people are already bagging on a player? Fantasy football and the internet are killing fans' common sense.