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View Full Version : For the love of god can someone tell me...



Northman
09-20-2009, 05:25 PM
What is going on with Prater? Dammit!

Tned
09-20-2009, 05:28 PM
I don't know, but I am guessing some how someone will blame it on Marshall.

camdisco24
09-20-2009, 05:38 PM
Bad day. He nailed two huge kicks last week so im not giving up on him.

LRtagger
09-20-2009, 05:38 PM
I don't know, but I am guessing some how someone will blame it on Marshall.

Nope McDaniels will get the blame for not bringing in kicking competition.


If I had to guess.

Northman
09-20-2009, 05:45 PM
Bad day. He nailed two huge kicks last week so im not giving up on him.

If they were 50 yarders i would be more leinant. Inside the 40 should be more consistent than he is showing. Still a lot of football to be played but im starting to lose faith. You have to reward your defense for playing tough and if we are going to rely on FG's for most of the year you have to make them. Should be 26-6 right now.

LRtagger
09-20-2009, 05:53 PM
If they were 50 yarders i would be more leinant. Inside the 40 should be more consistent than he is showing. Still a lot of football to be played but im starting to lose faith. You have to reward your defense for playing tough and if we are going to rely on FG's for most of the year you have to make them. Should be 26-6 right now.

how about 27-6?? :D

Slick
09-20-2009, 05:53 PM
Carol said the wind in Denver is bad today.

Northman
09-20-2009, 05:54 PM
how about 27-6?? :D

Its great, but it should be 33-6. :D

Shutdown
09-20-2009, 06:58 PM
The wind was really BAD! I don't blame Prater at all. They were good kicks but the wind just carried them away.

Granted it's something that needs to be worked on because you never know when your going to have wind but overall not his fault.

Bronco Bible
09-20-2009, 07:04 PM
I am by no means a kicker, but it seems to me when he missed kicks last year & this year,it seems like he does not adjust to the conditions jmo

T.K.O.
09-20-2009, 07:06 PM
matt was inconsistant down the stretch last year and may have given mcD reason to bring in a couple kickers this week today.....wind or no wind ,if we had lost by 1-5 points today it would have been on prater

Northman
09-20-2009, 07:13 PM
matt was inconsistant down the stretch last year and may have given mcD reason to bring in a couple kickers this week today.....wind or no wind ,if we had lost by 1-5 points today it would have been on prater

Just ask the Steelers how much 2 FG misses mean. A lot of people make excuses when you win the game anyway but they are important because somewhere along the line we will need him to come through for us in tough conditions.

Shutdown
09-20-2009, 07:14 PM
matt was inconsistant down the stretch last year and may have given mcD reason to bring in a couple kickers this week today.....wind or no wind ,if we had lost by 1-5 points today it would have been on prater

I totally get where your coming from. I would just argue that it is something that can be worked on and probably wasn't something that was worked on much. Definitely a mistake by someone. I guarantee it is something that will be one of the main priorities this next week.

Davii
09-20-2009, 07:17 PM
I totally get where your coming from. I would just argue that it is something that can be worked on and probably wasn't something that was worked on much. Definitely a mistake by someone. I guarantee it is something that will be one of the main priorities this next week.

The man is a professional. He shouldn't need to work on kicking in wind at this point in his career. He should already know how to adjust for the wind.

I mean, what do you think he does during practice? He kicks. That's about it. Does he need a massive wind tunnel to know to adjust for the wind?

He better get his act together. Both sides of the ball played great today, both showed improvement from last week. Our special teams took a step back today, and even then, it was only on the foot of Prater.

There is no excuse for missing those two kicks. Wind or not. One I can see, two from medium range? No.

SR
09-20-2009, 07:47 PM
I'm not going to bring the gavel down on Prater yet. Both of his kicks had a hook to them, but the wind pushed them and he BARELY missed both of them. The first one was missed by a couple of inches and the second one from maybe a foot. He should have made them both, and would have in ideal conditions, but I'm not going to say it's time to find a new kicker.

Davii
09-20-2009, 07:51 PM
I'm not going to bring the gavel down on Prater yet. Both of his kicks had a hook to them, but the wind pushed them and he BARELY missed both of them. The first one was missed by a couple of inches and the second one from maybe a foot. He should have made them both, and would have in ideal conditions, but I'm not going to say it's time to find a new kicker.

I'm not ready to bring down the gavel on him yet either, but he better get his act together... I don't think McD is as forgiving of 6 points being left on the field as we are. Win or lose.

SR
09-20-2009, 07:53 PM
I think you're right. I'm sure McD will be in his ear in practice all week. Had we lost or it been a lot closer, it would have been on Prater. Your game should NEVER be lost because of a kicker.

I'll give you that much.

Superchop 7
09-20-2009, 08:39 PM
Personally. I would get Vanderjagt in here to work with him rather than screw with his head. He just needs to work on his swing.

Buff
09-20-2009, 08:49 PM
The wind was a non-issue... Especially kicking in the closed end of the stadium--he just missed them.

Tned
09-20-2009, 09:02 PM
The wind was a non-issue... Especially kicking in the closed end of the stadium--he just missed them.

That's not accurate. The flags on the goal post were sideways, the wind was blowing VERY hard. They were short enough that he should have made them, but the wind was blowing hard and took what would have been slight hooks and swung them hard left as the wind got hold of them.

http://www.broncosforums.com/downloads/games/2009week2/week2prater1.JPG

http://www.broncosforums.com/downloads/games/2009week2/week2prater2.JPG

Buff
09-20-2009, 09:10 PM
That's not accurate. The flags on the goal post were sideways, the wind was blowing VERY hard. They were short enough that he should have made them, but the wind was blowing hard and took what would have been slight hooks and swung them hard left as the wind got hold of them.

http://www.broncosforums.com/downloads/games/2009week2/week2prater1.JPG

http://www.broncosforums.com/downloads/games/2009week2/week2prater2.JPG

Ok, so maybe it wasn't a "non-issue." Any wind has to be accounted for I suppose. But it was not blowing VERY hard as you describe. It was a little breezy, but it really should not have been enough to affect his kicks--especially on the North end of the stadium.

Tned
09-20-2009, 09:16 PM
Ok, so maybe it wasn't a "non-issue." Any wind has to be accounted for I suppose. But it was not blowing VERY hard as you describe. It was a little breezy, but it really should not have been enough to affect his kicks--especially on the North end of the stadium.

Well, the video and announcers seemed to tell a different story.

I agree, that he should have compensated, and if he didn't have a hook, the wind wouldn't have carried it, but it was worse than 'breezy'. If you DVR'd the game, you might want to go back and rewatch. The times are shown in my screen shots. The first was at the end of the 2nd quarter, the second one was in the 3rd quarter.

Buff
09-20-2009, 09:19 PM
Well, the video and announcers seemed to tell a different story.

I agree, that he should have compensated, and if he didn't have a hook, the wind wouldn't have carried it, but it was worse than 'breezy'. If you DVR'd the game, you might want to go back and rewatch. The times are shown in my screen shots. The first was at the end of the 2nd quarter, the second one was in the 3rd quarter.

I'll give it a look... But I was sitting in section 526 and don't recall it being enough to throw off an NFL kicker inside of 40 yards.

Requiem / The Dagda
09-20-2009, 09:19 PM
Prater sucks. Crosby should have been drafted years ago.

Slick
09-20-2009, 09:22 PM
Buff's a homer.

Buff
09-20-2009, 09:25 PM
I actually like Prater--he's got a hell of a leg... But I still don't know how Crosby lasted until the 6th round and was the 2nd kicker drafted... Dude was a can't miss prospect.

Prater really has to stop missing FG's inside of 40. Inexcusable.

rcsodak
09-20-2009, 09:26 PM
The man is a professional. He shouldn't need to work on kicking in wind at this point in his career. He should already know how to adjust for the wind.

I mean, what do you think he does during practice? He kicks. That's about it. Does he need a massive wind tunnel to know to adjust for the wind?

He better get his act together. Both sides of the ball played great today, both showed improvement from last week. Our special teams took a step back today, and even then, it was only on the foot of Prater.

There is no excuse for missing those two kicks. Wind or not. One I can see, two from medium range? No.

Davii, I'd say special teams was FANTASTIC today! Holding the best returner in the league to pedistrian numbers? There's NO WAY that happens with last year's personnel/coaching.

Prater miss-hit on those kicks it looked like. Instead of the ball flipping ass-over-tea-kettle, it looked to be almost cattywumpus, thus catching more wind.

He needs to decide whether he's going to kick the ball, or aim it. When he's kicking extra pts, he slams that ball through the uprights. I'm thinking if he'd have done that on the FG attempts, he MAY have had better results...



....but what do I know. I just play a kicker on TV.

rcsodak
09-20-2009, 09:28 PM
Personally. I would get Vanderjagt in here to work with him rather than screw with his head. He just needs to work on his swing.

LMAO!

Bringing in Vanderjagt WOULD be screwing with his head...... :D


I don't think an unemployed-alcoholic is quite the answer. :confused:

Buff
09-20-2009, 09:28 PM
Davii, I'd say special teams was FANTASTIC today!

They did do a great job bottling up Cribbs... I was impressed. But 2 missed FG's and a fumble on the opening kick return doesn't exactly amount to a fantastic day for special teams.

Requiem / The Dagda
09-20-2009, 09:29 PM
Prater and Hillis are the special teams losers of the week.

Tned
09-20-2009, 09:30 PM
I'll give it a look... But I was sitting in section 526 and don't recall it being enough to throw off an NFL kicker inside of 40 yards.

Don't get me wrong, on those length kicks, he needs to adjust, even if it means starting it at the right goal post or even outside of it (if he is going to kick a hooking ball), but the wind was definately a factor. You can tell in the ball flight. The started straight with the slight hook, and then just dove left, which is what happens when the ball is hooking in the same direction as the wind.

Buff
09-20-2009, 09:33 PM
Don't get me wrong, on those length kicks, he needs to adjust, even if it means starting it at the right goal post or even outside of it (if he is going to kick a hooking ball), but the wind was definately a factor. You can tell in the ball flight. The started straight with the slight hook, and then just dove left, which is what happens when the ball is hooking in the same direction as the wind.

Fair enough, it may have had more of an effect than I gave it credit for... I just thought the descriptions of a very windy stadium were inaccurate. It was a breezy day and the gusts never amounted to much... Definitely not enough to give Prater a pass on those kicks.

Tned
09-20-2009, 09:40 PM
I actually like Prater--he's got a hell of a leg... But I still don't know how Crosby lasted until the 6th round and was the 2nd kicker drafted... Dude was a can't miss prospect.

Prater really has to stop missing FG's inside of 40. Inexcusable.

Also, maybe you were protected in the stands. I just started ripping the game to PC, so I can burn a DVD to keep the game, and about five minutes into it when there was a penalty, the wind was whipping Ortons shirt, the Refs shirt as he made the call, and they showed a Browns coach (long haired guy that used to be with the raiders) and his hair was whipping all over the place.

Buff
09-20-2009, 09:46 PM
We can agree to disagree, but I was there and I'm telling you the wind was pretty much negligible. Maybe someone else who was there today can chime in with their opinion.

Denver Native (Carol)
09-20-2009, 10:08 PM
I just talked to my son, who sits in the lower part of the south stands, and he said both missed attempts were on the north end. He said on the first miss, Prater kicked it normal and the wind took it left, but on the second miss, he said Prater purposedly kicked it to the right, and the wind still took it too far to the left. My son said that the wind on the field in the north end was so bad that Prater probably needed to kick it 20 feet to the right and let the wind bring it back.

Buff
09-20-2009, 10:13 PM
I just talked to my son, who sits in the lower part of the south stands, and he said both missed attempts were on the north end. He said on the first miss, Prater kicked it normal and the wind took it left, but on the second miss, he said Prater purposedly kicked it to the right, and the wind still took it too far to the left. My son said that the wind on the field in the north end was so bad that Prater probably needed to kick it 20 feet to the right and let the wind bring it back.

I really didn't think it was that bad, but it sounds like he was closer than I was... It may have been a different story on field level, as Tned said.

honz
09-20-2009, 10:19 PM
Prater likely hooked both a bit and with the wind blowing like it was it really doesn't matter how far right you aim. Just judging by how it works in golf as I've never kicked a football high enough to be effected by the wind!

Northman
09-20-2009, 10:27 PM
NFL pro's are paid to make the FG's. Are they ever perfect? No, but i think the excuses are silly here.

Denver Native (Carol)
09-20-2009, 10:53 PM
NFL pro's are paid to make the FG's. Are they ever perfect? No, but i think the excuses are silly here.

Don't think the wind is an excuse - there have been many FGs which were not good because of wind.

Lonestar
09-20-2009, 11:03 PM
having not seen the game I find it a little funny that his is being held to the same standards that Jason was, even though Jason had 12-14 years experience kicking and this kid has 1.08 years..

mile highs winds can be tricky and it is hard to learn about there winds kicking practice ones at Dove Valley..


As long as he does not fade at the EOY I can live with him missing a couple windy game kicks from outside the 30..

hopefully our O will fix the FG issue by scoring TD's..

shank
09-20-2009, 11:12 PM
i wasn't happy at the time, and i'm not happy now that prater missed those kicks, but i'm not going to jump down his throat because of it either. i'm still a fan of his. i still feel really confident in him every time he steps up to make a kick, i don't know why.

the whole 'he's a professional' argument is ok, but that just doesn't work all the time. if buff and carol's son had such different opinions of the wind, maybe the winds really were crazy and unpredictable... maybe they were very different on the field than they were off the ground, making it a tough call for prater to make in how much to account for it...

even if they weren't all that unpredictable, pro athletes aren't perfect. lebron james misses free throws. tiger woods misses short puts.


i think we're also overlooking how good prater was on kickoffs today. arguably the browns best weapon was very limited in his chances today because of prater's good kickoffs. even when they weren't too deep to allow a return, they were high enough to give coverage time to get there and stop cribbs for short returns.

Northman
09-21-2009, 05:04 AM
Will one of you morons show me where i said im giving up on the kid? Seriously.

Elevation inc
09-21-2009, 05:10 AM
Will one of you morons show me where i said im giving up on the kid? Seriously.


LOL...you forget the slightest difference of opinion to the board police is grounds for immediate fan bashing....:lol:


dont worry, wind was a issue i think, lets hope he recovers next sunday

Northman
09-21-2009, 05:14 AM
LOL...you forget the slightest difference of opinion to the board police is grounds for immediate fan bashing....:lol:


dont worry, wind was a issue i think, lets hope he recovers next sunday


I dont think they are bashing but i think there is a difference between a slight wind and a hurricane. Prater isnt new to Denver and should know how to adjust his kicks by now. I would say to chalk it up to a bad day instead of blaming the wind. If he cant handle a windy day than he wont survive come winter when the shit really hits the fan.

RyanC
09-21-2009, 02:49 PM
Hey all-

I'm new here, so hello.

I thought I would mention, I live right down the street from the stadium and it wasn't just windy, it was gusty. So I could see it being hard to tell how much to compensate because it was changing all the time.

Not making excuses, he should have hit the 2nd one. But I can see where it would be tough when the wend speed isn't consistent.

NightTrainLayne
09-21-2009, 03:15 PM
We can agree to disagree, but I was there and I'm telling you the wind was pretty much negligible. Maybe someone else who was there today can chime in with their opinion.


I really didn't think it was that bad, but it sounds like he was closer than I was... It may have been a different story on field level, as Tned said.

It was not a windy day overall in Denver.

We tail-gated all morning, and before and after the game wind was not an issue at all.

That being said, maybe the direction of the wind caused it to swirl inside the stadium. I did notice several times that the wind flags on the poles were opposite of the observed wind direction in our section, and not only that, but looked to be a lot stronger.

I think that the wind was swirling, and being accelerated by the shape of the stadium causing Prater to mis-judge it.

Day1BroncoFan
09-21-2009, 03:21 PM
Hey all-

I'm new here, so hello.

I thought I would mention, I live right down the street from the stadium and it wasn't just windy, it was gusty. So I could see it being hard to tell how much to compensate because it was changing all the time.

Not making excuses, he should have hit the 2nd one. But I can see where it would be tough when the wend speed isn't consistent.

:welcome:

Welcome to the board and thanks for the info.

Tned
09-21-2009, 03:22 PM
Hey all-

I'm new here, so hello.

I thought I would mention, I live right down the street from the stadium and it wasn't just windy, it was gusty. So I could see it being hard to tell how much to compensate because it was changing all the time.

Not making excuses, he should have hit the 2nd one. But I can see where it would be tough when the wend speed isn't consistent.

When I was looking at video to take the screen shots, the flags were whipping. One second they were straight down, the next they were blowing straight across, or one was flat and one was straight across.

GEM
09-21-2009, 03:24 PM
The man is a professional. He shouldn't need to work on kicking in wind at this point in his career. He should already know how to adjust for the wind.

I mean, what do you think he does during practice? He kicks. That's about it. Does he need a massive wind tunnel to know to adjust for the wind?

He better get his act together. Both sides of the ball played great today, both showed improvement from last week. Our special teams took a step back today, and even then, it was only on the foot of Prater.

There is no excuse for missing those two kicks. Wind or not. One I can see, two from medium range? No.

I can't lump the Special Teams in with Prater right now. They shut Cribbs down. That's amazing looking at what we have dealt with on Special Teams the last few years.

TXBRONC
09-21-2009, 03:30 PM
How do we know he didn't attempt to compensate for the wind? Tiger Woods is the best golfer in the world and I have seen him slice three consecutive tee shots.

Lonestar
09-21-2009, 03:38 PM
Hey all-

I'm new here, so hello.

I thought I would mention, I live right down the street from the stadium and it wasn't just windy, it was gusty. So I could see it being hard to tell how much to compensate because it was changing all the time.

Not making excuses, he should have hit the 2nd one. But I can see where it would be tough when the wind speed isn't consistent.


welcome to the forum and a good numero uno post.

if it is gusting left to right and my guess that it was... that could make a 4-8 foot difference over 30+ yards..

and reading the wind at ground level and the top of the goal posts are also factors to deal with..

Considering he has had less than a years game experience in this stadium I for one are not worried about it..

TXBRONC
09-21-2009, 03:42 PM
welcome to the forum and a good numero uno post.

if it is gusting left to right and my guess that it was... that could make a 4-8 foot difference over 30+ yards..

and reading the wind at ground level and the top of the goal posts are also factors to deal with..

Considering he has had less than a years game experience in this stadium I for one are not worried about it..

I agree we shouldn't get worried just.

Actually Jr Prater kicked for us the entire '08 season.

Lonestar
09-21-2009, 03:50 PM
I agree we shouldn't get worried just.

Actually Jr Prater kicked for us the entire '08 season.

OK slightly more than on season, that being one game at Mile High..

9 games +preseason to get used to winds that happen there.. Now I have not been in invest co but MHS was a bitch to kick at with winds being totally different on each end..

We allowed for misses by Jason Elam that kicked there for along time.. having a couple of misses early in year one does not bother me much..

If they were really wide by 10 yards or short then I'd be concerned.. and just as a side comment Jason later in his career did not kick the 40+ yarders with great consistency either..


like Jake and jay and a half dozen other QB trying to live up to the legend on John prater is following another HOF Bronco that many thought walked on water also..

I'll give him a break on this..

T.K.O.
09-21-2009, 03:58 PM
I'll give him a break on this..

i will as well,but if we had lost the game by oh say 4 points,i would probably not ;)

Tned
09-21-2009, 04:03 PM
Per the wind. In McDaniels presser today, in the final question, when he is asked about the kicking game, he talks about several things they can learn from todays game (some on kickoff and returns), and also Prater's kick.

As I don't have a transcript, I will try and type this correctly:

"The wind was very strong coming towards our bench ... If you're going to get that tremendous cross wind, sometimes it's hard to feel good about starting it way outside the post and hoping the wind is going to bring it back in. You know, those of you in this room that are good golfers... you probably understand that more than I do, but. No, you have to start it out a little bit wider and then you have to count on the wind to do something wtih the ball. You know, emm, we did once or twice there, and then we missed a couple left, where we started it too far to the middle. When there is a significant wind, which yesterdays wind was significant, I thought, in the kicking game at least, umm, we have to adjust to it."

Ok, I might have missed an umm or two, but that is pretty close to verbatim of what McDaniels said regarding the missed FG's.

Tned
09-21-2009, 04:05 PM
P.S. He started off that answer by saying he was a kicker. That response above was the second to the last question. The last question, he was asked if he would have made those kicks. He got a big smile on his face, laughed and said, "ahhh, ahh, I'm not saying that" and then laughed and walked off.

I only typed up the response about the FG, but it was a good presser and worth listening to.

nevcraw
09-21-2009, 06:05 PM
Prater is a solid kicker in the making, yesterday wind and all changed nothing for me, he will be a good kicker for us.. I'm sure Elam has missed 2 in a game..

topscribe
09-21-2009, 06:08 PM
The wind was really BAD! I don't blame Prater at all. They were good kicks but the wind just carried them away.

Granted it's something that needs to be worked on because you never know when your going to have wind but overall not his fault.

The wind was strong, but it wasn't swirling. It looked as if Prater did not allow for
the wind. I remember on Prater's second kick I was muttering, "Aim for the right
upright! Aim for the right upright?"

Sure enough, the kick sailed wide left . . . with the wind.

Hopefully, Prater learned something about kicking in the wind . . .

-----

Tned
09-21-2009, 06:20 PM
The wind was strong, but it wasn't swirling. It looked as if Prater did not allow for
the wind. I remember on Prater's second kick I was muttering, "Aim for the right
upright! Aim for the right upright?"

Sure enough, the kick sailed wide left . . . with the wind.

Hopefully, Prater learned something about kicking in the wind . . .

-----

On the second one, he was on the far right hash mark. Using the golf analogy McDaniels brought up, which is one of the best for comparing ball movement, there is nothing worse than being on the far right, and kicking a hook. In golf, they teach you if you hit a slice, to setup on the far right side of the tee box, and aim left to use the 'whole' fairway. If you hit a draw/hook (what Prater kicks), setup on the far left side of the tee box.

So, the one on the right hash mark was much tougher, when you consider the right to left wind, and the fact he kicks a hook, but you have to adjust.

OldschoolFreak
09-21-2009, 06:36 PM
Sure, two misses in rough conditions is not the end of the world. I'm just concerned about the mental aspect because the kid definitely lost confidence and fell apart down the stretch...Hopefully he brushes it off and doesn't let it get into his head.

The kickoffs and subsequent bottling of Cribbs were a thing of beauty though!

rcsodak
09-22-2009, 12:14 AM
Per the wind. In McDaniels presser today, in the final question, when he is asked about the kicking game, he talks about several things they can learn from todays game (some on kickoff and returns), and also Prater's kick.

As I don't have a transcript, I will try and type this correctly:

"The wind was very strong coming towards our bench ... If you're going to get that tremendous cross wind, sometimes it's hard to feel good about starting it way outside the post and hoping the wind is going to bring it back in. You know, those of you in this room that are good golfers... you probably understand that more than I do, but. No, you have to start it out a little bit wider and then you have to count on the wind to do something wtih the ball. You know, emm, we did once or twice there, and then we missed a couple left, where we started it too far to the middle. When there is a significant wind, which yesterdays wind was significant, I thought, in the kicking game at least, umm, we have to adjust to it."

Ok, I might have missed an umm or two, but that is pretty close to verbatim of what McDaniels said regarding the missed FG's.

WOw.....no lip smacking?

I'm impressed! ;)

rcsodak
09-22-2009, 12:16 AM
Didn't Elam miss an extra point already?

Tned
09-22-2009, 08:09 AM
Didn't Elam miss an extra point already?

Was that before or after he set the record for consecutive PAT's without a miss?