Who is the greatest Broncos defensive player of all time?

[BroncoWave]

With Atwater going in today, I was thinking of where he ranks all time in terms of Broncos defensive players. Feels like we have a pretty clear top 5. What do you guys think?

[chazoe60]

Man, that is tough.


I love Atwater, my favorite player of all time but I concede that Ronnie Lott and maybe Ed Reed were better overall safeties. Atwater was a beast and I love him so much, but Champ Bailey is the best overall CB that has ever played the game.

Champ was as good in coverage as Deion and one of the best tacklers in the history of the position.

My vote has to go to Champ just because he is the best at his position to ever play and I don't think I can honestly say that about any of the other guys.

[Shazam!]

Man, that is tough.


I love Atwater, my favorite player of all time but I concede that Ronnie Lott and maybe Ed Reed were better overall safeties. Atwater was a beast and I love him so much, but Champ Bailey is the best overall CB that has ever played the game.

Champ was as good in coverage as Deion and one of the best tacklers in the history of the position.

My vote has to go to Champ just because he is the best at his position to ever play and I don't think I can honestly say that about any of the other guys.

Champs peers is Revis and Sherman. Look at their stats and how many more Tackles Champ has as opposed to theirs. He has more than them both combined.

I wish Champ had a Ring!

[BroncoWave]

Man, that is tough.


I love Atwater, my favorite player of all time but I concede that Ronnie Lott and maybe Ed Reed were better overall safeties. Atwater was a beast and I love him so much, but Champ Bailey is the best overall CB that has ever played the game.

Champ was as good in coverage as Deion and one of the best tacklers in the history of the position.

My vote has to go to Champ just because he is the best at his position to ever play and I don't think I can honestly say that about any of the other guys.

I think that's who I'd have to pick as well. If Von keeps at am elite level for another few years I think he could surpass him, but Champ was just so completely dominant.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Von Miller.

[chazoe60]

I think that's who I'd have to pick as well. If Von keeps at am elite level for another few years I think he could surpass him, but Champ was just so completely dominant.

To me it just boils down to the fact that no one has ever done it as well as Champ. Champs willingness to tackle separates him from alot of the other "shutdown" corners.

But I love Atwater more than any player ever.

[BroncoWave]

To me it just boils down to the fact that no one has ever done it as well as Champ. Champs willingness to tackle separates him from alot of the other "shutdown" corners.

But I love Atwater more than any player ever.

For me personally it's neck and neck been Von and Champ, but I admittedly only caught Atwater at the end of his career.

I think ultimately the Von/Champ argument will be similar to Brady/Manning. Von will wind up being a more accomplished Bronco than Champ with his Super Bowl MVP (like Brady with his titles), but Champ was probably the better player, much like Manning in my opinion.

But yeah, I can definitely respect having Atwater right in that class as well. Wish I could have seen more of his career.

[BroncoWave]

If some of our elder statesmen in here would like to come tell us stories of Meck and Grad I'm all ears.

Joe? Dread? Where are you guys?

[slim]

I'll take Von.

[Shazam!]

Karl Mecklenberg was a stalworth of the 80s SB teams. He was never the fastest but had great instincts and was incredibly versatile. One of the few players who played all positions in the front seven.

[MOtorboat]

Champ Bailey’s 2006 was the greatest season a cornerback ever had. But Von Miller put a team on his back and won a Super Bowl. Only two or three players in history did the latter and that accomplishment includes the ring. So I voted Miller.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Champ Bailey’s 2006 was the greatest season a cornerback ever had. But Von Miller put a team on his back and won a Super Bowl. Only two or three players in history did the latter and that accomplishment includes the ring. So I voted Miller.

That’s where I’m coming from. Ive seen a lot of good defensive players, but none in a Broncos uniform who could take over games like that. He’s one of the most dominant players in the history of the game, every bit as dominant as Lawrence Taylor was.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Where are they now: Karl Mecklenburg

http://www.espn.com/abcsports/mnf/s/KarlMecklenburg.html

Karl Mecklenburg Hits Marcus Allen (1984)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zJNqN1QDNA

Karl Mecklenburg First Career Sack
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJqbrud-KTg

[BroncoWave]

Champ Bailey’s 2006 was the greatest season a cornerback ever had. But Von Miller put a team on his back and won a Super Bowl. Only two or three players in history did the latter and that accomplishment includes the ring. So I voted Miller.

To be fair, it's probably harder for a corner to carry a team to a title. Von's position by nature lets him wreak more havoc on a game. I think what Von did that year will make him the most revered/accomplished Broncos defender ever, but I think I'd still just slightly give Champ the nod in terms of how well he played his particular position. Really is splitting hairs between those two though.

[MOtorboat]

To be fair, it's probably harder for a corner to carry a team to a title. Von's position by nature lets him wreak more havoc on a game. I think what Von did that year will make him the most revered/accomplished Broncos defender ever, but I think I'd still just slightly give Champ the nod in terms of how well he played his particular position. Really is splitting hairs between those two though.

Yeah, I don’t disagree. It’s definitely a debate. I’m relatively sure 2006 is the year the receiver he was guarding was thrown at like 15 times and he had 9 interceptions? Someone back those stats up. That’s insane.

[BroncoWave]

Yeah, I don’t disagree. It’s definitely a debate. I’m relatively sure 2006 is the year the receiver he was guarding was thrown at like 15 times and he had 9 interceptions? Someone back those stats up. That’s insane.

This is what I found:

https://247sports.com/Board/30/Contents/Champ-Baileys-2006-Season-27336734/

Thrown at: 35 times
Completions allowed: 4
Passes defended: 21
Interceptions: 10 (1 TD)
Tackles: 98 (84 solo)

Honestly the 4 catches allowed all season might be the most impressive part of that. That's just stupid good.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

This is what I found:

https://247sports.com/Board/30/Contents/Champ-Baileys-2006-Season-27336734/

Thrown at: 35 times
Completions allowed: 4
Passes defended: 21
Interceptions: 10 (1 TD)
Tackles: 98 (84 solo)

Honestly the 4 catches allowed all season might be the most impressive part of that. That's just stupid good.

More interceptions than completions.

[dogfish]

von is the sentimental pick. . . denver draft pick, played on our most legendary defense, won a ring and a super bowl MVP. . . and he has a much more entertaining, engaging personality. . . champ is the correct pick. . . he did it at the very highest level more consistently, and for a longer period of time. . . von, as amazing as he has been, has only had one season where he was the best pass rusher in the game. . . champ was easily, hands down the very best corner in the game for a good 5-6 years, and is much higher on the all-time list at his position than von. . . champ also did it with much less help-- think what he could have done with wade philips! most of von's best years came when he was surrounded by guys like ware, talib, harris, etc-- champ in his prime had dumervil and al wilson, and some over the hill names at safety. . . champ also plays an even more difficult position, and he never receives enough credit for how he handled the transition to the no-chuck era, which saw most of the other top corners fade away before the league adjusted. . . the 2015 post-season run was effing majestic, without a doubt-- but it's not enough to overcome a career's worth of dominant play. . . also, let's not forget that champ traveled all over the field to match up with the other team's best receiver, even tight ends. . . when von gets moved around, it's to get him away from the other team's best tackle. . . champ also excelled on special teams when moron put him there, would have been a wicked punt returner if shanny had allowed it, and even petitioned to play WR. . .

i love me some 58, and we've been super lucky to watch all of these guys, but to me it's a pretty straight-forward question. . .

[dogfish]

More interceptions than completions.

it was, quite simply, the best season a corner has ever played in the NFL. . . Prime doesn't have a season like that on his resume. . .

[OrangeHoof]

I'm a Mecklenburg fan (actually a fan of all of them but particularly the "Albino Rhino" who was almost undrafted yet Joe Collier turned him into one of the best front seven players of all-time) but I am choosing Von Miller because he probably won us a Super Bowl ring that one year. Remember how he sacked, harassed and intercepted Brady in the AFC Championship then two major blow-up plays on Newton in SB50? Love the others but Von got us a ring so I will list him as greatest. I honestly can't say the others won a title practically single-handedly. Take Von out of the equation in those two games and I don't think we win either.

[Nomad]

Both my sons played corner very well, and their hero was Champ Bailey. You guys have said it all about Champ. Best move the Broncos ever made in FA.

[Hawgdriver]

This is what I found:

https://247sports.com/Board/30/Contents/Champ-Baileys-2006-Season-27336734/

Thrown at: 35 times
Completions allowed: 4
Passes defended: 21
Interceptions: 10 (1 TD)
Tackles: 98 (84 solo)

Honestly the 4 catches allowed all season might be the most impressive part of that. That's just stupid good.

wow. I didn't realize it was like that.

I know Von is LT level good and by will delivered a championship at a position that impacts every single play--but that level of play by Champ might be the best single season effort on defense by anyone to wear an NFL jersey.

[dogfish]

wow. I didn't realize it was like that.



oh, baby-- it was like that!

champ make it do what it do! he is a bad, baaaaad man. . .

:defense:

[MOtorboat]

oh, baby-- it was like that!

champ make it do what it do! he is a bad, baaaaad man. . .

:defense:

But can he play safety?

[Valar Morghulis]

Gradishar has no votes, spike can’t have voted yet as it I remember right, spike loves him some gradishar

[Valar Morghulis]

I have my own preference for greatest ever

Mister Cobble

[Shazam!]

There were so many great defensive players on the 90s Broncos SB teams that went unappreciated and was often overlooked because of TD and the offense.

Ray Crockett
Neil Smith
Romanowski
Alfred Williams
John Mobley
Steve Atwater
Dennis Smith

All ballers all gamers

[BroncoWave]

von is the sentimental pick. . . denver draft pick, played on our most legendary defense, won a ring and a super bowl MVP. . . and he has a much more entertaining, engaging personality. . . champ is the correct pick. . . he did it at the very highest level more consistently, and for a longer period of time. . . von, as amazing as he has been, has only had one season where he was the best pass rusher in the game. . . champ was easily, hands down the very best corner in the game for a good 5-6 years, and is much higher on the all-time list at his position than von. . . champ also did it with much less help-- think what he could have done with wade philips! most of von's best years came when he was surrounded by guys like ware, talib, harris, etc-- champ in his prime had dumervil and al wilson, and some over the hill names at safety. . . champ also plays an even more difficult position, and he never receives enough credit for how he handled the transition to the no-chuck era, which saw most of the other top corners fade away before the league adjusted. . . the 2015 post-season run was effing majestic, without a doubt-- but it's not enough to overcome a career's worth of dominant play. . . also, let's not forget that champ traveled all over the field to match up with the other team's best receiver, even tight ends. . . when von gets moved around, it's to get him away from the other team's best tackle. . . champ also excelled on special teams when moron put him there, would have been a wicked punt returner if shanny had allowed it, and even petitioned to play WR. . .

i love me some 58, and we've been super lucky to watch all of these guys, but to me it's a pretty straight-forward question. . .

Yeah hard to argue with any of this. Sometimes I think how good Champ really was gets lost a bit in the overall mediocrity of a lot of those teams he was on. Such a shame we could never get him a ring.

[BroncoJoe]

If some of our elder statesmen in here would like to come tell us stories of Meck and Grad I'm all ears.

Joe? Dread? Where are you guys?

RE: Meck - this says it better than I could:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEWgeU2a2dI

Also

https://www.denverbroncos.com/video/top-5-all-time-broncos-ilbs-karl-mecklenburg-17236823

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/0ap2000000285124/2014-Hall-of-Fame-nominee-Karl-Mecklenburg

[WTE]

Rahim.

[BroncoJoe]

If some of our elder statesmen in here would like to come tell us stories of Meck and Grad I'm all ears.

Joe? Dread? Where are you guys?

Same with Gradishar -


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx9onF1n1NM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWWo-f4EZww

https://www.denverbroncos.com/video/highlights-from-randy-gradishar-s-broncos-career

[Ziggy]

The only reason that Gradishar doesn't lead all the stat boards is because they didn't keep track of tackles officially during his career. When they went back over the film, they found that he averaged over 200 tackles/season. And oh by the way, 4 of those were those were 14 game seasons. Ray Lewis had 1568 tackles in 17 years. That's the highest recorded total in the history of the NFL. Gradishar had over 2000 tackles in 10 seasons. Those weren't Nate Webster/Todd Davis numbers either (8 yards past the LOS).

In January 2008, he was voted by a panel of former NFL players and coaches to Pro Football Weekly 's All-Time 3-4 defensive team. In 1981, SPORT magazine named Gradishar one of the Top 5 hardest He was named Defensive Player of the Year in 1978. He was a 7 time pro bowler when pro bowls meant something. He was twice named first team all-pro.

Gradishar is still the greatest defensive player I've ever seen in a Broncos uniform. His film was the definition of "always around the ball." It's a crime that he's not in the Hall of Fame.

[spikerman]

Anybody who didn’t vote for Gradishar is likely too young to have seen him play.

[BroncoJoe]

Both Gradishar and Meck should be in the HOF. Zero question.

But, if I had to only choose one, it'd be Gradishar. Dude was the best LB during his playing days, hands down.

[Nomad]

Anybody who didn’t vote for Gradishar is likely too young to have seen him play.

I was 10 yrs old when he retired, so I don’t remember. You’re not much older than me, are you spiker?

[spikerman]

I was 10 yrs old when he retired, so I don’t remember. You’re not much older than me, are you spiker?
About 5 or 6 years I would guess.

[Nomad]

About 5 or 6 years I would guess.

You’re old. :D

[spikerman]

You’re old. :D

I’m experienced.

[Northman]

As much as i love all of them and as much as i love the Assassin the flat out best defensive player i have ever seen which also coincides with the best SB performance i have ever seen is Von Miller. On the biggest stage ever he showed why he is the current franchise and absolutely destroyed the Panthers offense.

[Poet]

Oh....this is fun.

[Nomad]

As much as i love all of them and as much as i love the Assassin the flat out best defensive player i have ever seen which also coincides with the best SB performance i have ever seen is Von Miller. On the biggest stage ever he showed why he is the current franchise and absolutely destroyed the Panthers offense.

You are right about Von Miller that year, and that SB. He was a one man wrecking crew. But, Champ is my favorite out of the ones mentioned. Probably because I played the position, and really appreciate his talent. I wish I was an ounce as good as Bailey was.

As far as Gradishar, I would have to watch highlights. I do appreciate Meck, though.

[Northman]

Champ was great and his INT in the playoff game against Brady was legendary. Just too bad we couldnt finish that year off with a Championship. But Von took that 2015 season to the bank and closed the deal even when i had my doubts.

[Nomad]

Champ was great and his INT in the playoff game against Brady was legendary. Just too bad we couldnt finish that year off with a Championship. But Von took that 2015 season to the bank and closed the deal even when i had my doubts.

You are not wrong.

[Nomad]

Same with Gradishar -


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx9onF1n1NM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWWo-f4EZww

https://www.denverbroncos.com/video/highlights-from-randy-gradishar-s-broncos-career

Yep. Definitely wish I could of seen him play live (I may of, but I don't remember). I was one yrs old when he was drafted, and 10 when he retired. During that time, all I remember is my Dad watching the Oilers, and Earl Campbell. Next time I talk to my Dad, I'll ask what he thought of Gradishar because I know the Oilers played the Broncos quite often during that time.

[Canmore]

wow. I didn't realize it was like that.

I know Von is LT level good and by will delivered a championship at a position that impacts every single play--but that level of play by Champ might be the best single season effort on defense by anyone to wear an NFL jersey.

He was quite simply amazing...2006...the shame of it is that Jason Taylor won Defensive Player of the Year with 14 sacks. Champ finished second.

[Poet]

Champ had the best regular season run.

Von had the best postseason run.

Atwater's play style impacts his effectiveness in the current setting/s.

Gradishar is hardest to quantify.

[spikerman]

Yep. Definitely wish I could of seen him play live (I may of, but I don't remember). I was one yrs old when he was drafted, and 10 when he retired. During that time, all I remember is my Dad watching the Oilers, and Earl Campbell. Next time I talk to my Dad, I'll ask what he thought of Gradishar because I know the Oilers played the Broncos quite often during that time.

https://www.denverbroncos.com/video/highlights-from-randy-gradishar-s-broncos-career

[Nomad]

Sad thing is, Atwater and Grdishar would be handcuffed in today's NFL. JMO, of course.

[Poet]

I wonder if Gradishar would style with the King.

[Nomad]

https://www.denverbroncos.com/video/highlights-from-randy-gradishar-s-broncos-career

You to Gradishar is probably what my sons were to Champ Bailey. They were probably 7 & 8 yrs old when watching Champ.

[spikerman]

Sad thing is, Atwater and Grdishar would be handcuffed in today's NFL. JMO, of course.

Nah, Gradishar wasn’t a huge hitter. He was more of a sure tackler.

[Nomad]

Nah, Gradishar wasn’t a huge hitter. He was more of a sure tackler.

I stand corrected.

[BroncoWave]

Oh....this is fun.

Great thread.

[Hawgdriver]

He was quite simply amazing...2006...the shame of it is that Jason Taylor won Defensive Player of the Year with 14 sacks. Champ finished second.

I wouldn't call it a shame that Taylor won, he had a great year too. But I didn't realize Champ allowed 4 completions. That's just ... from another planet. The 10 picks, or 9 picks, cool. But 4 receptions. I can't compute that. And he was a stud against the run, I remember how technical he was in the run game.

Champ shoulda won...that's the best year ever for a CB. When the game was becoming / had become pass friendly.

[Poet]

**** Jason Taylor and **** the voters.

[Fire Bronc]

A case can be made for any of these players, but for me, Gradishar was the most consistently dominant. Aside from being a tackling machine, he was great in coverage as well with 20 career picks. Stats can be deceptive depending on the era that the player played in. Another that could probably be added to the list, but may be the most overlooked Bronco is Louis Wright. He was a shut down corner before the term was even coined. Often considered the best corner in the game when he played.

[Hawgdriver]

This is my favorite 2020 thread so far.

[BroncoWave]

This is my favorite 2020 thread so far.

I'm awesome.

[Canmore]

I wouldn't call it a shame that Taylor won, he had a great year too. But I didn't realize Champ allowed 4 completions. That's just ... from another planet. The 10 picks, or 9 picks, cool. But 4 receptions. I can't compute that. And he was a stud against the run, I remember how technical he was in the run game.

Champ shoulda won...that's the best year ever for a CB. When the game was becoming / had become pass friendly.

Four!!!

[chazoe60]

I can really only comment on Champ, Von and Meck. I never got to see Gradishar play, at least not that I can remember.

I find it absolutely disgusting that Gradishar is not in the Hall. I've done a lot of reading and investigation and it seems like Randy's best attribute was his head. He was the smartest player on the field and that is why he had so many tackles.

I get the feeling that I would answer this poll with his name had I been fortunate enough to actually watch him play.

[Simple Jaded]

I just remembered Gradishar being called the best goaline/short yardage LB in the game.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Champ was a great player but teams just had to avoid his side of the field. Inspite of how great he was he never played on a defense that was more than good, in fact he played on what was the worst defense the Broncos ever fielded.

[Hawgdriver]

Champ was a great player but teams just had to avoid his side of the field. Inspite of how great he was he never played on a defense that was more than good, in fact he played on what was the worst defense the Broncos ever fielded.

Uh huh.

This year the best CB for the Broncos had 1 Int and 6 PD. Simmons had better stats: 4 Int and 15 PD.

Guess what Darrent Williams's numbers were?

I guess my point is that even though the Broncos D wasn't enough to stand up to Reggie and Peyton, they were a year off a likely SB berth and scrapping for postseason triumph. Too bad they moved on from Jake Plummer during the draft and ruined it. I wonder if Mike would have still gone with Cutler if he knew Cutler was Cutler.

[The Glue Factory]

But Von Miller put a team on his back and won a Super Bowl.

So much for the "No Fly Zone"

[Poet]

So much for the "No Fly Zone"

He was hitting Cam before they were able to press the WR.

[atwater27]

There is a lot of talk on here that Champ is the best corner ever. But I can’t go there because Rod Woodson is the best corner to ever play. His tackling ability, size speed combo, instincts, ball skills and leadership were off the charts. Then his transition to safety later in his career made him the best at that position as well. God could not have crafted a better defensive back.

[Dreadnought]

Mecklenberg played every defensive position save for DB (even NT), could do them all effectively, could play the run, defense the pass, and (especially) rush the passer. He was unique, a seriously dominant player, and a Nightmare to game plan against, and he could attack and disrupt an offense from all over the field. Gradishar was a much better pure run stuffer, Von maybe the best pass rusher in NFL history not named Lawrence Taylor (and I would argue even that) but Meck was amazing in his day, a truly unique talent

[Tned]

Champ Bailey’s 2006 was the greatest season a cornerback ever had. But Von Miller put a team on his back and won a Super Bowl. Only two or three players in history did the latter and that accomplishment includes the ring. So I voted Miller.

What I loved about Champ was how focused he was on sniffing out the run and stopping the run. The last few years, with his speed going, he wasn't as capable, but for a while, he was so fast, he could play the run first, and if it was play action, he had the speed to catch back up and make the play. But, if it was a run, or screen pass, he stuck his head in there and made the tackle. Pretty sure when he separate his shoulder and had to start wearing the strap to keep his arm from getting too high, it was from stopping the run. He was an elite cover cornerback that played the run like a safety.

So, I probably lean towards Champ over Von. Von has been taken completely out of the game by double teaming him, Champ took away one side of the field from the other team's offense, and allowed us to roll extra coverage to the other side.

[dogfish]

Von maybe the best pass rusher in NFL history not named Lawrence Taylor (and I would argue even that)

deacon jones and reggie white want a word. . . lol. . .

[Hawgdriver]

deacon jones and reggie white want a word. . . lol. . .

I thought Reggie White was more of a destroyer of linemen than pass rusher. Maybe that's the same thing.

[Poet]

I thought Reggie White was more of a destroyer of linemen than pass rusher. Maybe that's the same thing.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WhitRe00.htm

In my eyes he is the best defensive player ever. He was an elite pass rusher, top three all-time. He's also one of the greatest run stoppers on the DL, ever. Regardless of position or formation.

For an anecdotal take -- I know Bears fans who think the guy was shorted with just eight all-pro first teams. In that he racked up 12 sacks or more 10 separate times.

I was watching highlights of this guy, in like 1988, lining up DT and running by a ******* guard. More agile than Suh, more explosive than Paige, stronger than Donald or Atkins, more tenacious than Randle. More versatility than Watt and more athletic than Deacon Jones. This man was the perfect defensive player. In today's era his 12 a year average would be about 15, and the sack record would easily be his.

If the rules treated offensive and defense fairly you could pick this guy after the top two QB's.

He...he was better than us. He wasn't a human being...he was something more...

[dogfish]

I thought Reggie White was more of a destroyer of linemen than pass rusher. Maybe that's the same thing.

198 career sacks, and he got them in the golden era of NFL tackles. . . kingsley's right-- he was a top-3 all time defender, regardless of position. . .

[Hawgdriver]

198 career sacks, and he got them in the golden era of NFL tackles. . . kingsley's right-- he was a top-3 all time defender, regardless of position. . .

He also made my point for me--he was more than just a pass rush specialist. He was a disruptive force that would not, could not be denied. Von is also great in run and in coverage (I assume), but he is a pass rush specialist much like LT. More quick twitch than tactical nuclear weapon.

[Poet]

I wasn’t trying to correct anyone...I just...really like Reggie White.

[slim]

I just remembered Gradishar being called the best goaline/short yardage LB in the game.

This is what I remember most about him. He really did have a uncanny ability to fill the hole and smoke some fools on the goal line.

[BroncoWave]

This is what I remember most about him. He really did have a uncanny ability to fill the hole and smoke some fools on the goal line.

I trust you more than anyone on filling holes and smoking dudes.

[slim]

I trust you more than anyone on filling holes and smoking dudes.

Don't sleep on Dave!

[JPPT1974]

Present Von Miller
Past Atwater or Mecklenberg

[D1g1tal j1m]

Champ shut down one side of the whole field during his prime, no one did it better.

[Jsteve01]

I think that's who I'd have to pick as well. If Von keeps at am elite level for another few years I think he could surpass him, but Champ was just so completely dominant.

But Von was never at any point the best pass rusher in the league. Champ all day. His 2006 season is the best ever by a corner. So good as to be ridiculous. Thrown at 35 times, allowed 4 yep 4 catches, defended 21 balls, had 10 int, 6 picks inside the 10 and 3 in the endzone. Tossed in 98 tackles for good measure. I love Von Steve and Al meck and Randy but Champ man wow

[Dean]

Champ was everything his name would imply. However, Gradishar played in a different era. Offenses were run oriented and you lived or died off of whether you could stop the run game and force the opposition to pass. From sideline to sideline, if you were a ball carrier you had better be aware of where Gradishar was because he had shed whatever blocker were assigned to him and he was coming in a bad mood. In goal line and short yardage he took over the game. No one did it better.

[tomjonesrocks]

Champs peers is Revis and Sherman. Look at their stats and how many more Tackles Champ has as opposed to theirs. He has more than them both combined.

I wish Champ had a Ring!

Sherman got absolutely smoked in this last SB. He gave up 77 yards and a TD and Mahomes had a perfect passer rating against him. That’s now part of his legacy - along with being a real ass his whole career.

He’s is (was?) elite - but I don’t think he’s in Champ / Deion company.

[NightTerror218]

Has to be champ. GOAT at his position. Miller is another HOFer but I don’t think best at his position ever.

[Simple Jaded]

But Von was never at any point the best pass rusher in the league. Champ all day. His 2006 season is the best ever by a corner. So good as to be ridiculous. Thrown at 35 times, allowed 4 yep 4 catches, defended 21 balls, had 10 int, 6 picks inside the 10 and 3 in the endzone. Tossed in 98 tackles for good measure. I love Von Steve and Al meck and Randy but Champ man wow

Say what, say what?

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Say what, say what?

Thats just cray-cray.

[BroncoWave]

Say what, say what?

Depending on what metric you use, it's not the most crazy thing to say. He's never led the league in sacks.

[Jsteve01]

Depending on what metric you use, it's not the most crazy thing to say. He's never led the league in sacks.


Thats just cray-cray.

I love Von and if we want to discuss who was the best all-around strong-side 4-3 linebacker in the league then we can do that. But Von has never had as dominant as season as a pass-rusher as champ did as a cornerback.

[Northman]

I love Von and if we want to discuss who was the best all-around strong-side 4-3 linebacker in the league then we can do that. But Von has never had as dominant as season as a pass-rusher as champ did as a cornerback.

Just out of curiosity where did you find the info on how many times Champ was thrown at? And does it give a list of every DB who had passes thrown their way? Thats something that hasnt been answered yet in here and i would like to compare it to other DB's that year.

[sneakers]

a hof cornerback can only cover someone for so long if there is no pass rush, but a good pass rush can make cornerbacks look better than they are

[Poet]

But good corners can also cause coverage sacks.

Get styled on, feet protector.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I love Von and if we want to discuss who was the best all-around strong-side 4-3 linebacker in the league then we can do that. But Von has never had as dominant as season as a pass-rusher as champ did as a cornerback.

I won’t disagree with that. I would still choose Von over Champ.

[Poet]

Champ is the better positional player, but Von is the more impactful player and better physical talent.

[MasterShake]

Champ helped the Broncos defeat the Patriots in 2005 when they were at peak power, but Von almost single handedly won us a Super Bowl... but its hard to dismiss how impactful Atwater was in Super Bowl 32 but if we want to say a defensive player won us that it was Mobley on that final 4th and 6. I voted for Champ because he brought us game after game of top notch play for several seasons whereas the others shined in moments, even Super Bowls, but didn't have the longevity that he showed. I'm still pissed that Super Bowl 48 NEVER HAPPENED because it would've been nice to see Champ get his ring. It really is a shame that cancelled that Super Bowl. It was the only one in history that was just never played. Damn shame.

[Nomad]

Champ helped the Broncos defeat the Patriots in 2005 when they were at peak power, but Von almost single handedly won us a Super Bowl... but its hard to dismiss how impactful Atwater was in Super Bowl 32 but if we want to say a defensive player won us that it was Mobley on that final 4th and 6. I voted for Champ because he brought us game after game of top notch play for several seasons whereas the others shined in moments, even Super Bowls, but didn't have the longevity that he showed. I'm still pissed that Super Bowl 48 NEVER HAPPENED because it would've been nice to see Champ get his ring. It really is a shame that cancelled that Super Bowl. It was the only one in history that was just never played. Damn shame.

Well said, Shake.

[Simple Jaded]

I’m glad we can all agree that it’s Von Miller.

#Kumbaya

[spikerman]

I’m glad we can all agree that it’s Von Miller.

#Kumbaya

He’s at least one level below Gradishar.

[Simple Jaded]

He’s at least one level below Gradishar.

Well said, glad it’s unanimous.

[Buff]

Von Miller, Super Bowl MVP. Has as many All Pro selections as Champ already, is an 8x Pro Bowler, will likely surpass Champ's Pro Bowl selections, and would be a first ballot HOF'er if he retired today.

Davii, go ahead and close this one down.

[turftoad]

It’s Simon Flecther’s Birthday today. He was always one of my favorite defensive player.

[broncofaninfla]

It's an opinion piece and each name could be argued but being an old guy and watching every one of these guys play and the consistent impact they had on games I'd have to go with Gradishar or Miller with the slight edge going with Gradishar. Gradishar didn't seem to disappear like Miller does from time to time. Regardless every name on this list absolutely deserves to be in the HOF.

[Poet]

I still love this thread!

[BroncoWave]

Von Miller, Super Bowl MVP. Has as many All Pro selections as Champ already, is an 8x Pro Bowler, will likely surpass Champ's Pro Bowl selections, and would be a first ballot HOF'er if he retired today.

Davii, go ahead and close this one down.

I think it's hard to compare Von and Champ due to the nature of their positions. A pass rusher is able to be involved in and wreak havoc on every play. A CB can really only make plays if the ball is thrown his way.

I think Von has made a bigger impact than Champ (largely helped by the nature of his position), but Champ was better and more consistent at his own position.

[Buff]

I think it's hard to compare Von and Champ due to the nature of their positions. A pass rusher is able to be involved in and wreak havoc on every play. A CB can really only make plays if the ball is thrown his way.

I think Von has made a bigger impact than Champ (largely helped by the nature of his position), but Champ was better and more consistent at his own position.

I think Pro Bowls and All Pro selections help measure objectively because they are being compared to other players at their position -- how dominant were they compared to their peers?

So if they are already even in All Pro selections, and will likely be even in Pro Bowl selections by the time Von retires -- then I'm inclined to let the Super Bowl MVP be the tie breaker.

Also, to your point, Von plays a more impactful position so he gets a bit of an edge there too... For all those reasons, Von gets my vote.

[BroncoWave]

I think Pro Bowls and All Pro selections help measure objectively because they are being compared to other players at their position -- how dominant were they compared to their peers?

So if they are already even in All Pro selections, and will likely be even in Pro Bowl selections by the time Von retires -- then I'm inclined to let the Super Bowl MVP be the tie breaker.

Also, to your point, Von plays a more impactful position so he gets a bit of an edge there too... For all those reasons, Von gets my vote.

That's pretty surprising that Champ only got 8 all pro selections. I wonder if the fact that he just didn't get thrown at and didn't have gaudy starts hurt him there. I'd have to dig in further on that.

[Poet]

Eight is a ton, imo. There's voter fatigue with the same names, unless that name is a huge media darling/big market star.

This is just going off of memory, but I recall during Champ's prime years that a lot of attention shifted to INT's, and you saw some fluctuations in all-pro voting of good corners having career INT years.

[slim]

It’s Simon Flecther’s Birthday today. He was always one of my favorite defensive player.

Did you know he opened a hot dog joint in Denver after he retired?

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Did you know he opened a hot dog joint in Denver after he retired?

Really? What’s it called?

[BroncoJoe]

Really? What’s it called?

I don't know if he still owns it (he actually bought an existing business, slim!), but he does have a BBQ place in Ft. Morgan.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

I don't know if he still owns it (he actually bought an existing business, slim!), but he does have a BBQ place in Ft. Morgan.

I looked it up, it looks like it closed a couple of years ago.