Offensive identity

[MOtorboat]

I am confused by what they’re trying to do on offense. I think they’re confused about what they’re trying to do on offense.

So, some thoughts on what it should be.

1. What Elway wants the scheme to look like, and does he really want it to look like that? What does the hire of Scangarello tell us about how these two thoughts maybe oppose each other, or validate that Elway’s comments aren’t what he alluded to.

When Kubiak was let go, or decided to leave, whichever you’re inclined to believe (I imagine the truth is in between and it was mutual), Elway made some comments about liking the schemes based in what we’ve colloquially been calling “college schemes.” I think we can assume he was speaking about Kansas City, Carolina, Los Angeles Rams, etc.

Now, they run different schemes, but those schemes all have some college spread concepts.

For example Andy Reid has combined West Coast concepts (his background is the Holmgren scheme) with spread concepts that were introduced to the pro game by McDaniels in New England about a decade ago. Reid’s scheme differs because it’s still essentially a West Coast scheme with the mesh and option concepts of the college spread. The threat of the quarterback running is more out of the passing side than the rushing side, though, which is a West Coast principle. Always be looking downfield even if the pocket is moving. This is similar to what McVey is doing in Los Angeles and now what Kingsbury is doing in Arizona. Kansas City’s offense is built on speed, and Reid has tailored his scheme to that speed, i.e. Hill, Hardman, Watkins, etc.

The flip side of that is the Carolina spread. It’s built in more of a downfield passing game and a power offense. It has elements of the Coryell passing game and the old power running game of the NFC East teams. They run true option concepts in the backfield behind pulling linemen and counter action. And the play action game is looking deep to short, rather than short to deep, like Reid’s offense (West Coast).

The question that is unanswered is: Does Elway want one of these schemes like he seemed to allude to when moving on from Kubiak? We don’t know the answer to that.

Scangarello’s hire seemed to indicate the opposite. Yes, he has a lengthy college background. Frankly, it’s hard to know too much about the scheme he ran when he was an offensive coordinator in college because he was with lower-level teams I’m not familiar with. One would assume there was some air raid/spread involved, as most colleges have run these systems for nearly 20 years now. But, the Atlanta/San Francisco Shanahan offense is quite a bit more traditional West Coast than McVey’s or Reid’s. That leads me to believe that Elway was OK with that more traditional offense. But again, we don’t know that for sure.

2. The player personnel.

The team that was assembled is a power run football team. I think that’s plain and simple. They carried (including practice squad), three tailbacks, two fullbacks and four tight ends. They only kept five wide receivers (these numbers are off the top of my head, so they may be slightly off). Then they traded one of those receivers, and now really only have one healthy impact player at the position.

The team’s best running back, Lindsay, despite being short, is a power (scheme) runner. He seems to work best when he’s behind a pulling guard or working downhill in a zone scheme. His best ability, past maybe his elusiveness, is his vision. I think he has elite vision.

Janovich is one of the best fullbacks in the game, and they carried two fullbacks initially. That screams power run scheme.

The offensive line is clearly a top unit in the league in the running game (DVOA confirms this) and brutally bad in pass blocking (also confirmed by DVOA).

So...

3. The playcalling.

Here’s the true identity question. Why are they not running more power? Lindsay only had 13 carries yesterday. They only ran the ball 16 times yesterday. Yes, there were three and outs, and that was a big problem, but they were averaging 5 yards per carry. Run the football, it’s cold and windy.

Is that not the scheme? If it’s not the scheme, I suppose that’s one thing. But that raises several questions, the most important being why isn’t Scangarello using his personnel to the best of its abilities? Why is he trying to run college concepts with a team that’s not built on the speed it takes to run them?

What do they want the offensive identity of this team to be? Starting with the front office, they need to do a better job of identifying what they want the scheme to look like and catering the personnel to that scheme, or vice versa, cater the scheme to the personnel. Right now, it’s all over the place.

[Valar Morghulis]

You have an identity that is offensive

[Shazam!]

I really want to read all that but i can't. Maybe you should do a podcast? Serious.

[MOtorboat]

You have an identity that is offensive

I don’t have time for this.

[Buff]

Elway's bias is towards the offenses he won Super Bowls in - the Mike Shanahan-style, west-coast, wide zone scheme. That's ultimately what Scangarello is trying to run.

When it's working effectively the run/pass/play action all work in tandem off one another -- they all look the same to the defense and it becomes difficult to defend.

If you're playing from behind and having to straight drop all the time then you're kind of dead in the water with this scheme and this offensive line. Hopefully with some better QB and o-line play, combined with more experienced players in the scheme, you can start to see some more effectiveness with the scheme. Right now they're just treading water.

[Simple Jaded]

I cringe at criticizing playcalling, for the most part, just like anyone else I know what I like and I know what I don’t like ... and I know a great playcall when I see one and a bullshit playcall when I see them. I don’t need to see trickeration, I don’t mind it but don’t need it.

But in this case it’s a worthy exercise when done in conjunction of discussing philosophy, because this playcaller can’t separate the two when need be. Philosophy is fine unless you can’t impose your will. Their philosophy is WCO, set up the passing/play action game using the run but you have to be able to pass them out of run defenses, and run them out of pass defenses ... this comes down to anticipation from the coordinator imo, not to mention personnel (especially on the OL) but let’s not get into that yet.

Back in their heyday the Broncos could set up the passing game using the run and set up the run using the passing game, everybody credits TD with making JFE a champion but it was symbiotic ... TD never happens w/o JFE. Teams had to fear both and it sure af wasn’t all play action, the Broncos could come out throwing on a team with a defense that matched up well in the running game.

Elway wants an offense like that but with more wide open trends, like the one in SF ... problem is playcalling is anticipation and this OC has a ways to go.

“Scangarello is learning too”— JFE

[MOtorboat]

Elway's bias is towards the offenses he won Super Bowls in - the Mike Shanahan-style, west-coast, wide zone scheme. That's ultimately what Scangarello is trying to run.

When it's working effectively the run/pass/play action all work in tandem off one another -- they all look the same to the defense and it becomes difficult to defend.

If you're playing from behind and having to straight drop all the time then you're kind of dead in the water with this scheme and this offensive line. Hopefully with some better QB and o-line play, combined with more experienced players in the scheme, you can start to see some more effectiveness with the scheme. Right now they're just treading water.

You can’t abandon your philosophy down 6 or down 13 as much as they did yesterday. And too many times this season, I’ve watched them need two or three yards and pull the fullback for a spread formation. Dance with the one who brought you.

[NightTerror218]

Jano was the only FB that made the 53 man. You have a useless roster spot with booker and there are 3 TE on the 53 man roster.

I think this is a fairly standard roster position-wise with the FB instead of a another WR, 3 half backs and 3 TEs. Part of the issues is the OL. Need athletic players for west coast with quick feet instead normal big road graders for a run first offense Fangio wants. I think their OL is not a fit for the offense they want to run. I feel like the OL is patch work and don’t really mesh well together scheme wise.

[Buff]

You can’t abandon your philosophy down 6 or down 13 as much as they did yesterday. And too many times this season, I’ve watched them need two or three yards and pull the fullback for a spread formation. Dance with the one who brought you.

They were loading the box daring Allen to beat them, as you'd expect. I don't think we should read too deeply into what amounts to a scheduled loss. One more reason why it made sense to wait to start Lock.

[Hawgdriver]

The question then becomes:

Was departing from the optimal strategy, based on personnel and coordinator expertise, justified by in-game tactical choices?

On 3d and 6 it's difficult to justify a run.

[Poet]

To be honest, there were reports a few weeks ago that we were running plays we hadn't even practiced. It honestly feels like we just show up and sort of do things. Sometimes it feels like Scangs is almost trying to be too smart. Other times it's like he's so dense.

Here's the part I struggle with. We're told we're doing Shanahan/WCO things, right? That's what we heard all offseason.

https://www.pressdemocrat.com/sports/9363613-181/grant-cohn-defining-kyle-shanahans

Kyle Shanahan, in his own words, doesn't run the WCO. It feels like Scangs has taken aspects of the WCO, and aspects of the Shanny offense, and just made them an awful ineffective amalgamation.

[Jsteve01]

To be honest, there were reports a few weeks ago that we were running plays we hadn't even practiced. It honestly feels like we just show up and sort of do things. Sometimes it feels like Scangs is almost trying to be too smart. Other times it's like he's so dense.

Here's the part I struggle with. We're told we're doing Shanahan/WCO things, right? That's what we heard all offseason.

https://www.pressdemocrat.com/sports/9363613-181/grant-cohn-defining-kyle-shanahans

Kyle Shanahan, in his own words, doesn't run the WCO. It feels like Scangs has taken aspects of the WCO, and aspects of the Shanny offense, and just made them an awful ineffective amalgamation.

I agree with a lot of this. My concern is that you got a young play-caller who has a roster that's not built to fit what he would like to do offensive Lee. So again identity is the big question here just as Moe was saying. I think given his background that there's potential, but you have to build the roster to fit the system to a certain degree. I also think that rich would do well to follow the way Phillips model and fit his system to his personnel and stay consistent.

[Valar Morghulis]

I don’t have time for this.

There you go being offensive again

[Poet]

I agree with a lot of this. My concern is that you got a young play-caller who has a roster that's not built to fit what he would like to do offensive Lee. So again identity is the big question here just as Moe was saying. I think given his background that there's potential, but you have to build the roster to fit the system to a certain degree. I also think that rich would do well to follow the way Phillips model and fit his system to his personnel and stay consistent.

Scangs is 47/48. He's not young. I think he's inexperienced, and I think that's what you mean? Not trying to nitpick you, my friend.

[MOtorboat]

There you go being offensive again

Suck it, Euro.

[BroncoWave]

There you go being offensive again

Joeltorboat here trying to get us to read his Ted Talk.

[Valar Morghulis]

Joeltorboat here trying to get us to read his Ted Talk.

Joeltorboat, that is hilarious, I wish I could high five that post a thousand times

[MOtorboat]

I’m enjoying the people outing themselves as illiterate thinking they’re owning me.

:coffee:

[Poet]

I’m enjoying the people outing themselves as illiterate thinking they’re owning me.

:coffee:

I tried my best to contribute. I apologize, Senpai.

[Valar Morghulis]

I tried my best to contribute. I apologize, Senpai.

Same here. No pleasing some people

[MOtorboat]

Does it need a read time? Like two minutes because it’s only probably 500 words? I wrote it in less than 10 minutes!

[Poet]

Does it need a read time? Like two minutes because it’s only probably 500 words? I wrote it in less than 10 minutes!

Americans hate reading. Val's just lazy. He has so much time on his hands. FFS, he's probably on vacation!

[Valar Morghulis]

Americans hate reading. Val's just lazy. He has so much time on his hands. FFS, he's probably on vacation!

I read it. I liked it.

That does not excuse joeltorboat from mockery

Alas, I’m not on vacation.

[BroncoWave]

Does it need a read time? Like two minutes because it’s only probably 500 words? I wrote it in less than 10 minutes!

Admit it, joeltorboat is funny.

[Poet]

I'm not comfortable with calling Mo such a heinous name.

[Simple Jaded]

Does it need a read time? Like two minutes because it’s only probably 500 words? I wrote it in less than 10 minutes!

Show off.

[LawDog]

I'm not comfortable with calling Mo such a heinous name.

Would it help if it was JOELtorboat?

[Elevation inc]

Part of it is just the simple fact that Scgas is new at calling NFL plays and sometimes gets way to cute with that BS, another part is that he is trying to create his own identity using WCO and some spread concepts. We also have an offensive staff that doesn't seem to understand what kind of RB's we have. And we certainly haven't been able to adjust to the fact that Hamilton and Spencer aren't great at all at WR. Spencer can do some gadget stuff, but that's about it, and for some reason Hamilton just looks lost(maybe a confidence thing) Patrick coming back helps but gain he struggles at times to separate and he try's way to much to catch the ball with his body instead of his hands.....

We obviously know the OL is a issue and we seem to not know what to do about it.....As you alluded to we run when we shouldn't and pass when we shouldn't and use the wrong players in spots opposite of what they are best at. We tend to run routes short of first downs and call for runs that will only get us a couple despite needing 6 on 3rd down. We have very little ability to adjust at the line so what's called is pretty much ran, and if the defense is smart and waits to show their hand were pretty much caught off guard, and then left floundering call8ing plays and looks we didn't practice.

We keep Fant in more to help block then we should, and usually he gets left 1 on 1 with the best pass rusher....wtf is that.....I just think the whole staff is in over their heads. I think Azzani doesn't know what to do about the sanders thing as they were close, Our RB coach never was that great to begin with. Munchack can only do so much when your players suck that bad.....I actually expect a bit of staff turnover for sure in the off-season.....

I also cant figure out why they don't realize if they want to keep Lindsay fresh then Use him the right way in space, and let freeman run. Freeman needs carries to get momentum he is that kind of back he gets stronger with more carries. Same with Lindsay but if you refuse to use Lindsay as the Lead then use him more effectively.

Its all just a mess, we need OT help in the worst way, another WR to help open things up for Sutton, better use of our backs, Way better QB play and def more efficient play calling….

[Valar Morghulis]

Part of it is just the simple fact that Scgas is new at calling NFL plays and sometimes gets way to cute with that BS, another part is that he is trying to create his own identity using WCO and some spread concepts. We also have an offensive staff that doesn't seem to understand what kind of RB's we have. And we certainly haven't been able to adjust to the fact that Hamilton and Spencer aren't great at all at WR. Spencer can do some gadget stuff, but that's about it, and for some reason Hamilton just looks lost(maybe a confidence thing) Patrick coming back helps but gain he struggles at times to separate and he try's way to much to catch the ball with his body instead of his hands.....

We obviously know the OL is a issue and we seem to not know what to do about it.....As you alluded to we run when we shouldn't and pass when we shouldn't and use the wrong players in spots opposite of what they are best at. We tend to run routes short of first downs and call for runs that will only get us a couple despite needing 6 on 3rd down. We have very little ability to adjust at the line so what's called is pretty much ran, and if the defense is smart and waits to show their hand were pretty much caught off guard, and then left floundering call8ing plays and looks we didn't practice.

We keep Fant in more to help block then we should, and usually he gets left 1 on 1 with the best pass rusher....wtf is that.....I just think the whole staff is in over their heads. I think Azzani doesn't know what to do about the sanders thing as they were close, Our RB coach never was that great to begin with. Munchack can only do so much when your players suck that bad.....I actually expect a bit of staff turnover for sure in the off-season.....

I also cant figure out why they don't realize if they want to keep Lindsay fresh then Use him the right way in space, and let freeman run. Freeman needs carries to get momentum he is that kind of back he gets stronger with more carries. Same with Lindsay but if you refuse to use Lindsay as the Lead then use him more effectively.

Its all just a mess, we need OT help in the worst way, another WR to help open things up for Sutton, better use of our backs, Way better QB play and def more efficient play calling….

all this - but i am not sure i agree with how much of a free pass Munchak has got. Sure 72 sucks, and that must complicate things but maybe he just aint the oline messiah we expected when we hired him

[Poet]

What is the easiest offense to install/get the right talent for?

[Valar Morghulis]

What is the easiest offense to install/get the right talent for?

The one we are using - it goes, run up the gut (1 yard), roll out right (OOB), trick play (INT) or run up the gut (1 yard), run up the gut (1 yard loss), 75 yard bomb (incomplete), punt

[Elevation inc]

all this - but i am not sure i agree with how much of a free pass Munchak has got. Sure 72 sucks, and that must complicate things but maybe he just aint the oline messiah we expected when we hired him

Leary has managed to be somewhat competent coming off a hard injury, Risner is developing well, and Wilkinson while outmatched at tackle cause he is a guard, has done better then he should be doing there.....For me upgrading the tackles and moving Wilkinson inside to replace Leary when he leaves is key. The tackle position wont be set with James either its pretty clear that he brought with him his soft milking injury history from Miami, which is why they let him leave in the first place.....We are going to get shafted with dead money when we cut him end of next season.....I wouldn't be surprised at all to see him be a issue next year as well....

I don't blame john for that though he was the best Tackle on the market with some concerns and we went after him, its going to suck it didn't work out, but I get why he did it, and its better then the Donald Stephenson's of the world....although they managed more snaps by this point....lol

[Elevation inc]

The one we are using - it goes, run up the gut (1 yard), roll out right (OOB), trick play (INT) or run up the gut (1 yard), run up the gut (1 yard loss), 75 yard bomb (incomplete), punt

I'm calling Elway, your hired.....you already know our offensive playbook....

[Elevation inc]

What is the easiest offense to install/get the right talent for?

We actually have a pretty good offense base, we just suck at using it situationally being efficient with it, its part player execution, part lack of talent, and part poor QB play. Throw in a Brand new OC to the NFL at calling plays who try's to get to cute and it why were sucking....give us a better OL and QB and we have at least 3-4 of those losses be wins....even with the playcalling….

[Poet]

We actually have a pretty good offense base, we just suck at using it situationally being efficient with it, its part player execution, part lack of talent, and part poor QB play. Throw in a Brand new OC to the NFL at calling plays who try's to get to cute and it why were sucking....give us a better OL and QB and we have at least 3-4 of those losses be wins....even with the playcalling….

We have a WR, a RB, and a TE. That's not bad as a base.

But we also have a bad line, little TE depth, little WR depth, a position where it seems you need multiple playmakers, and we might, I said might, need to take a QB. I don't know if we can say 'just give us a better line' anymore than we can say 'just give us a better QB' because those things are hard to come by. I think we almost have to take a LT in the first round. I don't want anything less than a first rate talent at that position.

[dogfish]

all this - but i am not sure i agree with how much of a free pass Munchak has got. Sure 72 sucks, and that must complicate things but maybe he just aint the oline messiah we expected when we hired him

it takes time-- and some talent. . .

[Valar Morghulis]

it takes time-- and some talent. . .

Agreed, so are we giving scags and vic that courtesy too?

[Simple Jaded]

MO talked about how good this OL is at run blocking, Munchak isn’t remotely close to being an issue.

[FanInAZ]

Admit it, joeltorboat is funny.

If he doesn't like that, how about Yodorboat :D

[Simple Jaded]

We actually have a pretty good offense base, we just suck at using it situationally being efficient with it, its part player execution, part lack of talent, and part poor QB play. Throw in a Brand new OC to the NFL at calling plays who try's to get to cute and it why were sucking....give us a better OL and QB and we have at least 3-4 of those losses be wins....even with the playcalling….
Was thinking about that just now, you could make the argument that there’s more offensive core talent under contact beyond this season than on defense.

Sutton (who I was completely wrong about).
Fant
Lindsay (who I told everybody would be All-Pro).
Freeman.
Risner.

Miller.
Chubb.
A Johnson.
Maybe Walker and/or Dre’Mont Jones.

[Simple Jaded]

If he doesn't like that, how about Yodorboat :D

*Yodaclonetoboat.

[Simple Jaded]

Part of it is just the simple fact that Scgas is new at calling NFL plays and sometimes gets way to cute with that BS, another part is that he is trying to create his own identity using WCO and some spread concepts. We also have an offensive staff that doesn't seem to understand what kind of RB's we have. And we certainly haven't been able to adjust to the fact that Hamilton and Spencer aren't great at all at WR. Spencer can do some gadget stuff, but that's about it, and for some reason Hamilton just looks lost(maybe a confidence thing) Patrick coming back helps but gain he struggles at times to separate and he try's way to much to catch the ball with his body instead of his hands.....

We obviously know the OL is a issue and we seem to not know what to do about it.....As you alluded to we run when we shouldn't and pass when we shouldn't and use the wrong players in spots opposite of what they are best at. We tend to run routes short of first downs and call for runs that will only get us a couple despite needing 6 on 3rd down. We have very little ability to adjust at the line so what's called is pretty much ran, and if the defense is smart and waits to show their hand were pretty much caught off guard, and then left floundering call8ing plays and looks we didn't practice.

We keep Fant in more to help block then we should, and usually he gets left 1 on 1 with the best pass rusher....wtf is that.....I just think the whole staff is in over their heads. I think Azzani doesn't know what to do about the sanders thing as they were close, Our RB coach never was that great to begin with. Munchack can only do so much when your players suck that bad.....I actually expect a bit of staff turnover for sure in the off-season.....

I also cant figure out why they don't realize if they want to keep Lindsay fresh then Use him the right way in space, and let freeman run. Freeman needs carries to get momentum he is that kind of back he gets stronger with more carries. Same with Lindsay but if you refuse to use Lindsay as the Lead then use him more effectively.

Its all just a mess, we need OT help in the worst way, another WR to help open things up for Sutton, better use of our backs, Way better QB play and def more efficient play calling….
Ya know what’s gotta end is the Fant screens/gadget plays, they never work.

[MOtorboat]

Ya know what’s gotta end is the Fant screens/gadget plays, they never work.

You don’t carry fullbacks for gadget TE plays. If you insist on fullbacks, run the ******* football.

[Simple Jaded]

You don’t carry fullbacks for gadget TE plays. If you insist on fullbacks, run the ******* football.

Janovich isn’t exactly Howard Griffith either, if you insist on fullbacks, get a good one.

[Simple Jaded]

The Broncos screen game is pathetic, all the way around, they routinely go for negative yards.

[MOtorboat]

Janovich isn’t exactly Howard Griffith either, if you insist on fullbacks, get a good one.

This won’t go over well.

[Simple Jaded]

This won’t go over well.

People don’t trust science.

[elsid13]

First of all good thread Mo.

I think the team is caught in transition phase and is still trying to figure out what the offense identity is. I think Elway wants to be a base 21/22 personnel grouping with outside zone running game. He looks at SF/LA Rams/Minnesota/GB and see that effective offense that can control the clock and help win games. It also fits with idea that Vic is defense guy that will play it old school - run the ball, control the clock, play smart defense, beat the opponent down.

Kyle Shanahan has evolved his father/Kubick’ WCO/ZBS system in two important ways. First he and Turner are willing to allow the running back to stay wide in outside zone, they don’t force the cut back that was a staple of Gibb’s system. Second unlike Mike, Kyle is focused on explosive pass plays. More posts, deep cross, mesh and 9 routes. Mike’s offense focused more on slants and cross plays. Traditional 90s WCO passes that treated the pass as long hand off. Kyle’s pass system has a lot in common with modern spread system, especial his use of TE and RBs as part of the passing game.

That why they brought in Scags, to get the evolved WCO/ZBS system. Problem is they struggled getting it installed with the players they have. Especially the QBs. I think they do have the personnel to run it, thought I am not sure Lindsay is best fit for outside zone runner.

[Hawgdriver]

You don’t carry fullbacks for gadget TE plays. If you insist on fullbacks, run the ******* football.

I agree from the statistical perspective--the season-end distribution of personnel groupings and play selection should reflect the distribution of your talent-adjusted 53.

But I'm coming more and more to the notion that any success at the NFL level is more about mental execution and disguise rather than personnel mismatches and physical execution.

Quick definitions:

Mental execution - knowing the play and the concept behind the play. Even more--knowing how the play is countered and common defensive assignments and wrinkles. Knowing how to counter those should they develop. The ability to process these things prior to the snap and set up basic conditional assignments (if-then responsibilities). Ultimate ability--enough reps and exposure to instantly zero in on the critical weakness for a massive exploit.

Disguise - acting so that true intent is unknowable. could be formation. More likely is early development of play--e.g., play action, screens. On the individual player level it's making your defending/(attacking) think you really want one thing but you are just setting them up for an easy leverage opportunity. Running the same play a couple times but then adding a wrinkle to make it a chunk play. Throwing to your FB (who can reliably catch it).

Personnel mismatches - both in terms of 11 v 11 and also 1 on 1. Faster/stronger, etc.

Physical execution - creating leverage at critical points of failure/attack. Getting the ball to where it's meant to be thrown. Etc.

I was watching a replay of the Saints v. Panthers game and it came to me. How important disguise is--this mental side of the coin--disguise and mental execution.

Then I get mad at the Broncos, really depressed and mad.

[MOtorboat]

I agree from the statistical perspective--the season-end distribution of personnel groupings and play selection should reflect the distribution of your talent-adjusted 53.

But I'm coming more and more to the notion that any success at the NFL level is more about mental execution and disguise rather than personnel mismatches and physical execution.

Quick definitions:

Mental execution - knowing the play and the concept behind the play. Even more--knowing how the play is countered and common defensive assignments and wrinkles. Knowing how to counter those should they develop. The ability to process these things prior to the snap and set up basic conditional assignments (if-then responsibilities). Ultimate ability--enough reps and exposure to instantly zero in on the critical weakness for a massive exploit.

Disguise - acting so that true intent is unknowable. could be formation. More likely is early development of play--e.g., play action, screens. On the individual player level it's making your defending/(attacking) think you really want one thing but you are just setting them up for an easy leverage opportunity. Running the same play a couple times but then adding a wrinkle to make it a chunk play. Throwing to your FB (who can reliably catch it).

Personnel mismatches - both in terms of 11 v 11 and also 1 on 1. Faster/stronger, etc.

Physical execution - creating leverage at critical points of failure/attack. Getting the ball to where it's meant to be thrown. Etc.

I was watching a replay of the Saints v. Panthers game and it came to me. How important disguise is--this mental side of the coin--disguise and mental execution.

Then I get mad at the Broncos, really depressed and mad.

I understand trying to buck tendencies and using motion and misdirection are probably three of the most important aspects of play design and playcalling in today’s NFL. But at the same time, I think spread and gadget plays in short yardage situations are now the Broncos tendencies and I they need to just line it up to the strength of their personnel rather than trying to spread it out in short yardage. The failed TE plays stick in my mind a little here, but they’ve also gone shotgun 11 and 12 personnel on third down too when they just needed a yard. They do have a full scheme built around that TE shovel pass play that’s so stuck in my head, but I’ve only seen that set of plays really work in one game to any success. Anyway, everyone sees Andy Reid succeeding with it, and I get it, he’s doing some cool shit. But our personnel is way different than his.

And you know, the NFL has great players, and sometimes the other team just makes a play. It’s just so pervasive this season for Denver that I think it’s bigger than “the other team has better players.”

[Nomad]

Jano was the only FB that made the 53 man. You have a useless roster spot with booker and there are 3 TE on the 53 man roster.

I think this is a fairly standard roster position-wise with the FB instead of a another WR, 3 half backs and 3 TEs. Part of the issues is the OL. Need athletic players for west coast with quick feet instead normal big road graders for a run first offense Fangio wants. I think their OL is not a fit for the offense they want to run. I feel like the OL is patch work and don’t really mesh well together scheme wise.

This post should have more high fives.

[Simple Jaded]

Jano was the only FB that made the 53 man. You have a useless roster spot with booker and there are 3 TE on the 53 man roster.

I think this is a fairly standard roster position-wise with the FB instead of a another WR, 3 half backs and 3 TEs. Part of the issues is the OL. Need athletic players for west coast with quick feet instead normal big road graders for a run first offense Fangio wants. I think their OL is not a fit for the offense they want to run. I feel like the OL is patch work and don’t really mesh well together scheme wise.


This post should have more high fives.

You (supposedly) need those quick/athletic OL to run outside ZBS and the stupid waggle off of the stretch zone, you don’t need it for WCO ... very few WCO still use undersized OL anymore.

Also, considering how good the Broncos are in the running game I say **** those pansy-ass bed wetting “athletic” lineman, they’re best left in the past.

[MOtorboat]

Watching the Bills draft a quarterback and completely install an offense around him and then cater to their personnel is, well, cool and frustrating at the same time.

[Simple Jaded]

The best OLman they’ve drafted in forever says hi.

[Simple Jaded]

Watching the Bills draft a quarterback and completely install an offense around him and then cater to their personnel is, well, cool and frustrating at the same time.

Maybe Broncos run same shit for Lock, I think I’m ready.

[MOtorboat]

Maybe Broncos run same shit for Lock, I think I’m ready.

Let’s do it.

[Simple Jaded]

Let’s do it.

I’ll call John, see what’s up.

[Poet]

Watching the Bills draft a quarterback and completely install an offense around him and then cater to their personnel is, well, cool and frustrating at the same time.

He's getting better.

[MOtorboat]

He's getting better.

His TD/INT is 13/2, with 1,688 yards passing on 62 percent completion percentage in his last 8 games. The yardage isn’t spectacular, but on that pace it’s a 3,000 yard season with 26/4. He’s been really good.

[Poet]

His TD/INT is 13/2, with 1,688 yards passing on 62 percent completion percentage in his last 8 games. The yardage isn’t spectacular, but on that pace it’s a 3,000 yard season with 26/4. He’s been really good.

Solid analysis!

[Jsteve01]

Scangs is 47/48. He's not young. I think he's inexperienced, and I think that's what you mean? Not trying to nitpick you, my friend.

It's exactly what I mean and no offense taken. He could be 85 but if it's his first run designing, implementing and calling plays then he's young in his position.

[Poet]

It's exactly what I mean and no offense taken. He could be 85 but if it's his first run designing, implementing and calling plays then he's young in his position.

I gotcha.

[Nomad]

Scangs is 47/48. He's not young. I think he's inexperienced, and I think that's what you mean? Not trying to nitpick you, my friend.

Whoa, now. I beg to differ. He is still a young man. :D

[dogfish]

Agreed, so are we giving scags and vic that courtesy too?

yes. . .

[Poet]

Agreed, so are we giving scags and vic that courtesy too?

When your defensive genius DC turned coach schemes your best pass rusher out of the game you have don't have to be generous.