Report: Growing strife in Denver between head coach Vic Fangio and his players and staff.

[Buff]

I'm historically not a huge Jason La Canfora fan, and don't always put a ton of stock in the national stories like this... But if nothing else, some of these quotes seem to indicate a lot of tension between Fangio and the offensive assistants. Not super encouraging.

https://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora/status/1196060778652151808


"There is a negative reaction to almost every offensive play call," said one source with knowledge of the situation.

Other sources noted a disconnect between the offense and defense as well, with Fangio's "people skills," in their minds, lacking. There is almost no discussion beyond football, sources said, and that, coupled with some staff and personnel issues as well as lingering angst over an eventual sale of this franchise, has created a difficult climate around the team.


"Pretty much everyone gets treated like (crap)," said one source with knowledge of the situation, "but if anything I think it's brought the (coaches) on offense closer together."

[MOtorboat]

"There is a negative reaction to almost every offensive play call," said one source with knowledge of the situation.

I mean ...27th in total offense, 28th in the passing game, 28th in points ...

Maybe there’s a reason for that?

[Buff]

I mean ...27th in total offense, 28th in the passing game, 28th in points ...

Maybe there’s a reason for that?

Right - it strikes me as the type of thing that winning would fix, or a little bit of success on that side of the ball... So I hope it's more about that than any flawed management style. Could just be one offensive assistant having a pity party here.

[MOtorboat]

Right - it strikes me as the type of thing that winning would fix, or a little bit of success on that side of the ball... So I hope it's more about that than any flawed management style. Could just be one offensive assistant having a pity party here.

I’ve been grumbling all year about play calling, as everyone obviously knows, so I’m predisposed to agree with, reportedly, Fangio here. But when you’re bottom five in the league and the head coach isn’t happy, this isn’t on the head coach’s ******* people skills.

[Elevation inc]

The offensive staff has its feelings hurt cause Vic is probably not kissing their ass......

[NightTerror218]

To me it is fangio, he will not release The offense to let it fly. He wants a run first team and that is old school like him.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Fighting like two retards over a booger.

[UnderArmour]

Nothing credible here. If memory serves, La Canfora used to be fairly reliable with the latest on Steeler drama last year and wrote a favorable pieces painting Munchak as our front runner. Maybe this is coming from Munchak, where there seems to be a strong correlation between La Canfora coverage and where this guy is working.

Allbright refuted it and Schefter (whose inside source seems to be Elway himself) hasn't confirmed.

[spikerman]

Fangio also needs to get that 2nd half defense fixed. It’s pathetic. If any Broncos defenders are reading this, I’m not scared. You probably couldn’t come close to stopping me either.

[Simple Jaded]

Get rid of the coaches/players he doesn’t like, bye Felicia.

[Simple Jaded]

Fangio also needs to get that 2nd half defense fixed. It’s pathetic. If any Broncos defenders are reading this, I’m not scared. You probably couldn’t come close to stopping me either.

Don’t listen to Spiker, Broncos defenders, you saved the team from a huge mistake today.

[tomjonesrocks]

I liked the Fangio hire - but it’s hard not to wonder if all this pain could have been avoided simply hiring Kyle Shanahan over Vance Joseph.

Some mistakes you don’t recover from.

[Poet]

Personal skills matter...

I've noticed a trend with Fangio and how he speaks about others. I don't blame him for being upset with his coaches. But you can't treat everyone like crap and expect to allure anyone worth getting to come here.

[Jsteve01]

I liked the Fangio hire - but it’s hard not to wonder if all this pain could have been avoided simply hiring Kyle Shanahan over Vance Joseph.

Some mistakes you don’t recover from.

I agree with you 1000% on this. And all of that can be placed squarely at John's feet. as much as I've been an elway apologist for the last couple of years because his drafting acumen seems to have improved immensely, I cannot defend him on this one.

he became obsessed with Vance Joseph when Mike Brown wouldn't allow us to sign him as defensive coordinator and I've said this before, and cheek but it's reality. Mike Brown deserves a ring as much as elway does for keeping elway from hiring Vance Joseph as our defensive coordinator. John spent two years pining over the girl he couldn't have and then gave perfunctory interviews to people like Kyle shanahan when to everybody in the world knew that Joseph would be the hire.

if you just imagine that we could be three years into Kyle shanahan's tenure with Wade Phillips still as our defensive coordinator tell me how that sits with you. Phillips is still one of the premier defensive coordinators in the game and we could have one of the premier offensive minds in the game as our young head coach. This by the way is the guy who has led the niners to a 9 and 1 record in the NFC West.

[Simple Jaded]

Could have Kyle Shanatan and Scangereally? as QB Coach with Wade Phillips as DC.

[ShaneFalco]

what are you talking about? Ellis rejected Shanny Jr based soley on his last name.

[Simple Jaded]

what are you talking about? Ellis rejected Shanny Jr based soley on his last name.

We’re talking about how much smarter we are than Ellis.

[Poet]

So you have a grumpy old man as your HC. He's never been a HC before, his own playcalling has been up and down. His defenses don't get a lot of help from the offense, but the offense is saddled with a bad line, and it's not like they've been playing on a lot of short fields, either. Fangio's defenses routinely crumble at the end of the game. That guy is going to be the one taxing the ass on his own coaching staff? Leadership is accountability. If Fangio was a DC and had this many collapses and 'death by inches' his HC would be irked with him.

[Poet]

what are you talking about? Ellis rejected Shanny Jr based soley on his last name.

Link?

Ellis rejected Shanahan Sr. VJ was hired by Elway and was Elway's target.

[Jsteve01]

Link?

Ellis rejected Shanahan Sr. VJ was hired by Elway and was Elway's target.

Sayre Bedinger whose work I mostly love and who is also a friend wrote a speculative editorial piece in 2018. He even admitted in the piece that it was speculation but that you could potentially connect those dots. But he never stated that he had any solid evidence that Ellis was the reason we had chosen not to hire Kyle shanahan. I honestly can't see John elway putting up with continual undermining of his decision-making

[Poet]

I recall when we where hiring that every report was Elway loving VJ. I don't even know what the basis of speculation is? Given that Ellis stopped us from rehiring Shanahan Sr., it's hard to think that he's not the adult in the room.

[Simple Jaded]

VJ was Kubiak’s hire, imo, handpicked to replace him ... he originally wanted Leader Of Men as DC but “settled for” Wade Phillips.

We all owe the Bengals a huge debt of gratitude.

[Poet]

VJ was Kubiak’s hire, imo, handpicked to replace him ... he originally wanted Leader Of Men as DC but “settled for” Wade Phillips.

We all owe the Bengals a huge debt of gratitude.

Elway wanted VJ as our DC originally.

Bengals. Lol.

[Simple Jaded]

Elway wanted VJ as our DC originally.

Bengals. Lol.

Link?

[Poet]

Link?

The Bengals denied us VJ. https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/denver-broncos-cincinnati-bengals-vance-joseph-defensive-coordinator-012015

Elway wanted him as our DC.

https://broncoswire.usatoday.com/2017/01/03/vance-joseph-favorite-to-become-next-denver-broncos-head-coach/

VJ was almost hired back when we signed Kubiak, too.

Joseph, 44, was the team’s second choice when they hired Gary Kubiak in 2015, according to Klis. He coached under Kubiak while at the Houston Texans alongside several coaches on Denver’s current staff.



https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2017/01/07/elway-interviews-kyle-shanahan-for-broncos-job/96302856/

Elway said Monday his top offseason priority, ahead even of fixing myriad problems on offense, was keeping his defense dominant.

Elway thought VJ was going to be a brilliant defensive coach, had a history of wanting him, and focused on him.

This isn't an Ellis thing. It's an Elway thing.

[ShaneFalco]

Link?

Ellis rejected Shanahan Sr. VJ was hired by Elway and was Elway's target.

ive already link it like a million times.

Shanny Jr Interviewed with Elway and Ellis together. Elway wanted him, but Ellis held his last name against him. This was all reported by Schlereth, dmac and a few other.

[ShaneFalco]

Sayre Bedinger whose work I mostly love and who is also a friend wrote a speculative editorial piece in 2018. He even admitted in the piece that it was speculation but that you could potentially connect those dots. But he never stated that he had any solid evidence that Ellis was the reason we had chosen not to hire Kyle shanahan. I honestly can't see John elway putting up with continual undermining of his decision-making

yup, but stink flat out said on foxsports that the board held Shanny Jrs last name against him.

[Poet]

Ellis was also the one who stopped Elway from firing VJ after one season. Ellis reportedly didn't want to create more of a coaching carousel. Ellis stopped us from hiring Shanahan Sr., which would have been an unmitigated disaster. Shanahan Sr. only looked good in Washington when RG3 was healthy and in tip top form. Those two needed one another, to be honest. Shanahan Sr. is one of the finest offensive minds ever, and one of the finest head coaches I've ever seen. That being said, he shouldn't be in the NFL as a head coach anymore. Everyone but John seemed to know that.

John Elway has/was been fixated on Vance Joseph, almost to distraction. He has had some success with retreads in Kubiak, and then wanted to go that route again with a re-hire. His inclination as a GM is to invest heavily into the defense with both head coaches and draft picks, and FA pickups. Defense is his mantra, and that's fine. You can do well in the NFL with a great sustained defense.

Elway has, however, not been able to sustain a great defense. The Ravens and Steelers, two defensive teams (within the past twenty years or so) reload and find top shelf talent in random places in the draft, and usually aren't in a position to get elite top shelf talent at the beginning of the drafts because they're usually playoff bound. Point is that John Elway is just a tick below those franchises in finding defensive gems. That's not great, but it is really good.

When it comes to offense, however, he's dreadful. To the point where you can literally find fans on this site coming up with better draft theories that could/arguably should happen. That's not an exaggeration, either.

What do you do with a GM who is improving in drafting? You tend to keep him around. But, what if that same GM cannot find a QB, cannot fix a line, and cannot find a consistently decent, just decent, head coach? And what do you do when that GM refuses to completely go all-in in FA/trades or a rebuild, and instead has a half-baked approach? And what do you do when that GM just hired a HC who: needed over twenty years to get hired as a HC; cannot understand clock management/challenges; cannot find effective coaches to sit under him; has relationship and communication issues both with supporting/criticizing players and with his own staff; has a defense that collapses at the end of games consistently?

Because that's where we are at right now. None of that even references the issues we have developing QB's and our inclination to sit QB's who should be out there learning. Not to mention the fact that the HC seems to be fine with this.

I understand that people love Fangio because he's sporting a good defense. Well, the Bears lost him and some starters this offseason and their defense is still very good. Very good in a division with good offenses and a do-nothing offense. I understand that Fangio is beloved because he's supposed to be a detail oriented guy. But that's not showing up either as we get undisciplined. Badly. Almost every elite defense Fangio led had nothing short of top flight defensive rosters. You wanna look at that Niners' defense? They had arguably the best ILB tandem since the Steel Curtain. They had a bench player Ahmad Brooks who was an explosive pass rusher. They had one of the best DLmen in Justin Smith, a few Pro Bowlers in the secondary whose names escape me, and that insane pass rusher who got a DUI every other weeks. Every level of his defense had an all pro player on it/all pro caliber player on it.

The Bears defense had a pro bowler in the secondary, on the DL, Mack, and coverage LB's as well as a great DL rotation. This isn't a guy who made great defenses out of no name players, like Mike Zimmer for instance.

There is nothing special about Fangio. He has shown nothing close to even having a foundation that can be built upon as a head coach. We don't have a great GM in Elway, either. We are stuck somewhere in the middle of the pack/second Wild Card at best territory.

I want us to draft a LT and then nothing but defensive players. We will never have a great offense with Elway as our GM. He's either not going to get the right QB, or not protect the right QB because apparently John can't draft them, or sign one worth a damn that can get on the field.

I hate people who are toxic. And Fangio, the guy who has the side of the ball with the talent shouldn't be shitting on his offensive coaches who are stuck with a bad line, and an offense that has one good RB, one good WR, a fledgling TE, and nothing at QB...except for the guy Fangio and Elway refuse to put on the field. The offensive coaches as bad as they have been have been put in a failing situation. Fangio is not a leader of men, and just comes across as a frustrated and hapless coach.

Lock help us all. Lock save us. Lock will have to carry an average GM (recent history) and a bad and undeserving head coach hire (lol at this guy being a playoff winning head coach).

[Timmy!]

Ellis was also the one who stopped Elway from firing VJ after one season. Ellis reportedly didn't want to create more of a coaching carousel. Ellis stopped us from hiring Shanahan Sr., which would have been an unmitigated disaster. Shanahan Sr. only looked good in Washington when RG3 was healthy and in tip top form. Those two needed one another, to be honest. Shanahan Sr. is one of the finest offensive minds ever, and one of the finest head coaches I've ever seen. That being said, he shouldn't be in the NFL as a head coach anymore. Everyone but John seemed to know that.

John Elway has/was been fixated on Vance Joseph, almost to distraction. He has had some success with retreads in Kubiak, and then wanted to go that route again with a re-hire. His inclination as a GM is to invest heavily into the defense with both head coaches and draft picks, and FA pickups. Defense is his mantra, and that's fine. You can do well in the NFL with a great sustained defense.

Elway has, however, not been able to sustain a great defense. The Ravens and Steelers, two defensive teams (within the past twenty years or so) reload and find top shelf talent in random places in the draft, and usually aren't in a position to get elite top shelf talent at the beginning of the drafts because they're usually playoff bound. Point is that John Elway is just a tick below those franchises in finding defensive gems. That's not great, but it is really good.

When it comes to offense, however, he's dreadful. To the point where you can literally find fans on this site coming up with better draft theories that could/arguably should happen. That's not an exaggeration, either.

What do you do with a GM who is improving in drafting? You tend to keep him around. But, what if that same GM cannot find a QB, cannot fix a line, and cannot find a consistently decent, just decent, head coach? And what do you do when that GM refuses to completely go all-in in FA/trades or a rebuild, and instead has a half-baked approach? And what do you do when that GM just hired a HC who: needed over twenty years to get hired as a HC; cannot understand clock management/challenges; cannot find effective coaches to sit under him; has relationship and communication issues both with supporting/criticizing players and with his own staff; has a defense that collapses at the end of games consistently?

Because that's where we are at right now. None of that even references the issues we have developing QB's and our inclination to sit QB's who should be out there learning. Not to mention the fact that the HC seems to be fine with this.

I understand that people love Fangio because he's sporting a good defense. Well, the Bears lost him and some starters this offseason and their defense is still very good. Very good in a division with good offenses and a do-nothing offense. I understand that Fangio is beloved because he's supposed to be a detail oriented guy. But that's not showing up either as we get undisciplined. Badly. Almost every elite defense Fangio led had nothing short of top flight defensive rosters. You wanna look at that Niners' defense? They had arguably the best ILB tandem since the Steel Curtain. They had a bench player Ahmad Brooks who was an explosive pass rusher. They had one of the best DLmen in Justin Smith, a few Pro Bowlers in the secondary whose names escape me, and that insane pass rusher who got a DUI every other weeks. Every level of his defense had an all pro player on it/all pro caliber player on it.

The Bears defense had a pro bowler in the secondary, on the DL, Mack, and coverage LB's as well as a great DL rotation. This isn't a guy who made great defenses out of no name players, like Mike Zimmer for instance.

There is nothing special about Fangio. He has shown nothing close to even having a foundation that can be built upon as a head coach. We don't have a great GM in Elway, either. We are stuck somewhere in the middle of the pack/second Wild Card at best territory.

I want us to draft a LT and then nothing but defensive players. We will never have a great offense with Elway as our GM. He's either not going to get the right QB, or not protect the right QB because apparently John can't draft them, or sign one worth a damn that can get on the field.

I hate people who are toxic. And Fangio, the guy who has the side of the ball with the talent shouldn't be shitting on his offensive coaches who are stuck with a bad line, and an offense that has one good RB, one good WR, a fledgling TE, and nothing at QB...except for the guy Fangio and Elway refuse to put on the field. The offensive coaches as bad as they have been have been put in a failing situation. Fangio is not a leader of men, and just comes across as a frustrated and hapless coach.

Lock help us all. Lock save us. Lock will have to carry an average GM (recent history) and a bad and undeserving head coach hire (lol at this guy being a playoff winning head coach).

This is a lot of words to say not a lot.

[Poet]

This is a lot of words to say not a lot.

:elefant:

[Poet]

ive already link it like a million times.

Shanny Jr Interviewed with Elway and Ellis together. Elway wanted him, but Ellis held his last name against him. This was all reported by Schlereth, dmac and a few other.

What I found is that it's just speculation. We know Elway has a history wanting and pursuing Vance Jospeh.

I guess we know that Ellis stopped us from getting Shanahan Sr. But...that's probably just not being an idiot.

It's also worth mentioning the fact that Kyle couldn't have been hired during the time of the interview because the Falcons were in the playoffs. Joseph was of the last batch interviewed in Denver. https://247sports.com/nfl/denver-broncos/Article/Joe-Ellis-explains-why-Broncos-hired-Joseph-over-Shanahan-51081146/

There were also rumors that Shanahan wanted more power than John was willing to give up. He has a decent amount of power in San Francisco.

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/49ers/john-lynch-kyle-shanahan-divide-personnel-power-49ers

[Hawgdriver]

This is a lot of words to say not a lot.

I have to admit that I saw the word count and my eyes jumped about, looking for payoff. I read the ending, some leading sentences, but nothing grabbed me.

Kinger is an incisive fellow, that much is plain. But sometimes we just ramble and I wonder if that is the case here.

On the other hand, I should just buckle in and read his words. I think my impatience got the better of me, as it does from time to time.

Sorry Kinger.

[Simple Jaded]

The Bengals denied us VJ. https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/denver-broncos-cincinnati-bengals-vance-joseph-defensive-coordinator-012015

Elway wanted him as our DC.

https://broncoswire.usatoday.com/2017/01/03/vance-joseph-favorite-to-become-next-denver-broncos-head-coach/

VJ was almost hired back when we signed Kubiak, too.

Joseph, 44, was the team’s second choice when they hired Gary Kubiak in 2015, according to Klis. He coached under Kubiak while at the Houston Texans alongside several coaches on Denver’s current staff.



https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2017/01/07/elway-interviews-kyle-shanahan-for-broncos-job/96302856/

Elway said Monday his top offseason priority, ahead even of fixing myriad problems on offense, was keeping his defense dominant.

Elway thought VJ was going to be a brilliant defensive coach, had a history of wanting him, and focused on him.

This isn't an Ellis thing. It's an Elway thing.
Fake news.

[Timmy!]

I have to admit that I saw the word count and my eyes jumped about, looking for payoff. I read the ending, some leading sentences, but nothing grabbed me.

Kinger is an incisive fellow, that much is plain. But sometimes we just ramble and I wonder if that is the case here.

On the other hand, I should just buckle in and read his words. I think my impatience got the better of me, as it does from time to time.

Sorry Kinger.

King is smart, I'm just making sure he doesn't go all joel on us

[Hawgdriver]

King is smart, I'm just making sure he doesn't go all joel on us

I've gone all joel.

don't ever go all joel.

No offense joel.

[Timmy!]

I've gone all joel.

don't ever go all joel.

No offense joel.

Chemically assisted doesn't count

[Poet]

I have to admit that I saw the word count and my eyes jumped about, looking for payoff. I read the ending, some leading sentences, but nothing grabbed me.

Kinger is an incisive fellow, that much is plain. But sometimes we just ramble and I wonder if that is the case here.

On the other hand, I should just buckle in and read his words. I think my impatience got the better of me, as it does from time to time.

Sorry Kinger.

In the NBA, and in the underworld, the saying is 'Shooters shot'. Sometimes you miss. Or sometimes you give every ounce of analysis you have, and it's over kill.

[Shazam!]

Maybe the 'source' was Flacco

[BroncoWave]

Elway had some thoughts on this report

https://twitter.com/MikeKlis/status/1196234820692537344?s=19

[Poet]

Josh McDaniels agrees, John.

[Poet]

Josh McDaniels agrees, John.

Tom Coughlin almost being out of a job and having to revamp his entire approach doesn't agree, John.

And yes, ever situation is different. Sometimes it's players, sometimes it's coaches who endure the brunt of it. But if you think how you treat people in a game where almost everyone has an ego, and where your reputation is king, somehow doesn't matter...spare me. I'm not saying the reports are necessarily true, but it's pretty ******* believable.

[Elevation inc]

Tom Coughlin almost being out of a job and having to revamp his entire approach doesn't agree, John.

And yes, ever situation is different. Sometimes it's players, sometimes it's coaches who endure the brunt of it. But if you think how you treat people in a game where almost everyone has an ego, and where your reputation is king, somehow doesn't matter...spare me. I'm not saying the reports are necessarily true, but it's pretty ******* believable.

We have had bitch ass players in our LR for a long time....Kubiak was a players coach through and through....VJ was a wannabe players coach...Fangio tells it how it is doesn't play favorites and is pretty blunt about it. No doubt in this new woke generation people have some hurt feelings about being told they aren't doing very well...

[slim]

Tom Coughlin almost being out of a job and having to revamp his entire approach doesn't agree, John.

And yes, ever situation is different. Sometimes it's players, sometimes it's coaches who endure the brunt of it. But if you think how you treat people in a game where almost everyone has an ego, and where your reputation is king, somehow doesn't matter...spare me. I'm not saying the reports are necessarily true, but it's pretty ******* believable.

MO would call them established facts

[Northman]

I dont care what Fangio does so as long as he fixes the problem and starts winning games. If he cant do that it doesnt matter who he calls out and for what.

[Poet]

MO would call them established facts

The day bleeds into night fall.
And you're not here, to get me through it all.
I let your guard down, and then you pulled the rug.
I was getting kind of used to being someone you loved.

[Elevation inc]

I dont care what Fangio does so as long as he fixes the problem and starts winning games. If he cant do that it doesnt matter who he calls out and for what.

He cant control the players or injuries on the roster. He is dealing with the hand he has been given by the GM and trying to make the best of it. I am all about his type of coaching cause we have had some bitch ass players and staff for awhile now, and I hope they are getting uncomfortable.....

[Elevation inc]

Tom Coughlin almost being out of a job and having to revamp his entire approach doesn't agree, John.

And yes, ever situation is different. Sometimes it's players, sometimes it's coaches who endure the brunt of it. But if you think how you treat people in a game where almost everyone has an ego, and where your reputation is king, somehow doesn't matter...spare me. I'm not saying the reports are necessarily true, but it's pretty ******* believable.

I believe he hasn't coddled some players and staff and they are butt hurt about it......

[Poet]

I believe he hasn't coddled some players and staff and they are butt hurt about it......

What's the basis for assuming anyone wants to be coddled? The players I could see because we've heard of rifts and bickering there before. But if his coaches hate him, I'm guessing it's not a good sign.

[Northman]

He cant control the players or injuries on the roster. He is dealing with the hand he has been given by the GM and trying to make the best of it. I am all about his type of coaching cause we have had some bitch ass players and staff for awhile now, and I hope they are getting uncomfortable.....

it doesnt matter about what he can control, its about winning ballgames.

[Poet]

it doesnt matter about what he can control, its about winning ballgames.

I don't think this, if true, helps winning games. But ultimately we agree, winning cures all.

[Elevation inc]

it doesnt matter about what he can control, its about winning ballgames.

Which is why he will probably get fired next year when Elway gives him shit players and we roll out Flacco and Bolles cause we are almost there :lol:

[Poet]

Another year of Flacco? I will poop.

[Elevation inc]

I don't think this, if true, helps winning games. But ultimately we agree, winning cures all.

Winning does cure all and we haven't been good at it for about 4 years now and people are fed up I get it but more coaching flux is just going to keep making it worse....Not even shanny jr could have made Flacco what Elway was hoping for.....

[Elevation inc]

Another year of Flacco? I will poop.

Imagine how I will feel then :lol:

[Poet]

Imagine how I will feel then :lol:

You will feel like poop.

[Elevation inc]

What's the basis for assuming anyone wants to be coddled? The players I could see because we've heard of rifts and bickering there before. But if his coaches hate him, I'm guessing it's not a good sign.

What offensive assistant or player (Bolles for example) really wants to hear they aren't doing well....no one likes hearing it even if its true....there are babies all over the NFL today and in coaching its probably no different.

[Elevation inc]

You will feel like poop.

That's a understatement, don't forget how I was back in the spring when we traded for him then had the whole in his prime BS sold to us......if we go for 2.0 of that Bullshit I will go nuclear

[Shazam!]

I don't see there being any chance Flacco is here next year at all.

[Mike]

Losing stinks. Losing like they did yesterday really stinks. This is about the time players start grumbling, so Fangio does need to tread carefully or risk losing the locker room.

Coaches need to do a better job with second half adjustments and players (looking at you McAnus) have to execute. That said, this team has a lot of young talent to build on. If Denver can have a good draft and FA, I expect them to be competing next year. I am not giving up on the staff, but, man, the lack of second half adjustments is glaring.

[Elevation inc]

I don't see there being any chance Flacco is here next year at all.

I hope so but the last 4 years doesn't give me very much hope.....

[Northman]

Flacco is done. At best he is a backup next year.

[Elevation inc]

Losing stinks. Losing like they did yesterday really stinks. This is about the time players start grumbling, so Fangio does need to tread carefully or risk losing the locker room.

Coaches need to do a better job with second half adjustments and players (looking at you McAnus) have to execute. That said, this team has a lot of young talent to build on. If Denver can have a good draft and FA, I expect them to be competing next year. I am not giving up on the staff, but, man, the lack of second half adjustments is glaring.

The LR was Mess going all the way back to 2015...only reason it didn't implode then was because its Peyton manning.....But the offense vs defense thing has been going on for awhile.....so much so that some of those defensive players like wolfe and haris were talking smack coming off bad games themselves and everyone just kind of ignored it....Then VJ compounded it by trying to play both sides and constantly benching the wrong players.....

Personally I hope Fangio stomps all over that LR, they have needed an ass kicking for awhile and Kubes and VJ were never going to be those types of coaches. It remains to be seen if this is what we need but we have had back to back coaches kiss players and staffs ass, so maybe its time to go the other way with it....

Just my 2 cents.....

[Mike]

The LR was Mess going all the way back to 2015...only reason it didn't implode then was because its Peyton manning.....But the offense vs defense thing has been going on for awhile.....so much so that some of those defensive players like wolfe and haris were talking smack coming off bad games themselves and everyone just kind of ignored it....Then VJ compounded it by trying to play both sides and constantly benching the wrong players.....

Personally I hope Fangio stomps all over that LR, they have needed an ass kicking for awhile and Kubes and VJ were never going to be those types of coaches. It remains to be seen if this is what we need but we have had back to back coaches kiss players and staffs ass, so maybe its time to go the other way with it....

Just my 2 cents.....

If anyone is leaking info to the media, I would be looking at players that aren't happy with not playing currently or who were traded during the season.

[Jsteve01]

yup, but stink flat out said on foxsports that the board held Shanny Jrs last name against him.

Don't think Stink has many sources left in that building after all the criticism

[Valar Morghulis]

Fangio will be HC of the Year next year - book it

[MasterShake]

This team is still playing hard for Fangio, I don't buy it. He is working on changing the culture and we have a great young core that is a few bad series away from being 7-3. If Fangio doesn't get at least 3 seasons including this one we suck as an organization. Its nice to have an adult back in the room right now and for some reason I feel better about THIS shitty season than I have the last few and I think its because I finally think they have some direction and something to build around.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck
‏Verified account @TroyRenck
47m47 minutes ago

#Broncos Fangio was asked if needed to bring staff together and make sure they were all on same page after the CBS national report saying there was lockerroo strife and issues with coaches. His answer: "No." .... #Denver7

Also, on Troy's twitter, there is a video with this:


Troy Renck
‏Verified account @TroyRenck
10h10 hours ago

So about the report of lockerroom strife and player issues with #Broncos coach Fangio. I addressed it last night on #Denver7. Talked to 10 players yesterday. And have discussed with numerous others over last few weeks on and off record. Here’s what I have seen and know.

https://twitter.com/troyrenck?lang=en

[Shazam!]

Sanders and Flacco talking shit. Bank on it.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Sanders and Flacco talking shit. Bank on it.

I don't agree with Flacco, but in Troy's video he said something like "reported strife in the locker room and there really was with one player - Emmanuel Sanders, and he has been traded."

[MasterShake]

Sanders and Flacco talking shit. Bank on it.

My first thought was Sanders as well. Flacco just seemed openly critical once out of frustration but Sanders was brewing for awhile.

[Simple Jaded]

The day bleeds into night fall.
And you're not here, to get me through it all.
I let your guard down, and then you pulled the rug.
I was getting kind of used to being someone you loved.
Is that James Joyce?

[Timmy!]

Is that James Joyce?

Try Lewis Capaldi

[Elevation inc]

I don't agree with Flacco, but in Troy's video he said something like "reported strife in the locker room and there really was with one player - Emmanuel Sanders, and he has been traded."

I agree, I hate Flacco, but I don't think he is a source of this BS....Maybe the WR coach, Sanders and a couple assistants, maybe Bolles but I don't buy its Flacco....for all his failings he is a 12 year vet and knows better......

[Buff]

I wouldn't rule out Flacco - La Canfora is a Baltimore area guy - it stands to reason Flacco could be a source. In any case, some tension is to be expected with the season we've had -- I just hope it's not a harbinger of doom on how Fangio manages people. At this stage, we're just speculating. He needs a couple more seasons before we can judge him.

[Cugel]

I liked the Fangio hire - but it’s hard not to wonder if all this pain could have been avoided simply hiring Kyle Shanahan over Vance Joseph.

Some mistakes you don’t recover from.

That is the understatement of the century!

All this could have been eliminated if they hired Kyle Shanahan. IF and only IF they also hired they also hired John Lynch to handle player personnel in concert with Shanahan however.

If John Elway were left in charge of the draft and FA the last 4 years, the exact same result would have happened. 5-11, 6-10. We tested the theory that it was Vance Joseph not the crappy players Elway picked that was the problem.

This season explodes that myth. Fangio is clearly superior to Vance in about every way (admittedly a low bar to clear). But, the result isn't any better.

This team simply isn't good enough to win consistently, and that's 100% Elway's fault.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

That is the understatement of the century!

All this could have been eliminated if they hired Kyle Shanahan. IF and only IF they also hired they also hired John Lynch to handle player personnel in concert with Shanahan however.

If John Elway were left in charge of the draft and FA the last 4 years, the exact same result would have happened. 5-11, 6-10. We tested the theory that it was Vance Joseph not the crappy players Elway picked that was the problem.

This season explodes that myth. Fangio is clearly superior to Vance in about every way (admittedly a low bar to clear). But, the result isn't any better.

This team simply isn't good enough to win consistently, and that's 100% Elway's fault.

And this is at least your 50th version for showing your hate for Elway.

[Poet]

And this is at least your 50th version for showing your hate for Elway.

Respectfully, Carol, you're being unfair. He doesn't hate Elway just because he's critical.

[Timmy!]

Respectfully, Carol, you're being unfair. He doesn't hate Elway just because he's critical.

Like a broken record or parrot?

[slim]

Respectfully, Carol, you're being unfair. He doesn't hate Elway just because he's critical.

No. He clearly hates Elway.

[Poet]

No. He clearly hates Elway.

You don’t know what’s in his heart.

[slim]

You don’t know what’s in his heart.

We all know. It's established fact.

[Hawgdriver]

I thought Cugel was enraptured with Elway when he drafted Lynch? Perhaps Cugel is just a weathervane of sorts?

[GEM]

104.3 reported tonight that shefter is saying la canfora is full of shit. Said he may have gotten 1 snippet and completely embellished that entire piece. Shefter has spoken with players and says no truth to that article.

[Hawgdriver]

104.3 reported tonight that shefter is saying la canfora is full of shit. Said he may have gotten 1 snippet and completely embellished that entire piece. Shefter has spoken with players and says no truth to that article.

There's always someone butthurt in any organization--and often for good reason. It's just the way of things and not any kind of news.

Like that one guy on the Pats who didn't get invited to the Superbowl. It's just people in groups doing people things.

Fangio...I wouldn't mind seeing another year or two. Needs to get better, but we need continuity too.

I want to see Fangio and Scangarello with a decent QB and a decent O-line.

[Timmy!]

There's always someone butthurt in any organization--and often for good reason. It's just the way of things and not any kind of news.

Like that one guy on the Pats who didn't get invited to the Superbowl. It's just people in groups doing people things.

Fangio...I wouldn't mind seeing another year or two. Needs to get better, but we need continuity too.

I want to see Fangio and Scangarello with a decent QB and a decent O-line.

This, and I want to see if he can learn from mistakes. Scags has shown ability to improve at least.

[Davii]

And this is at least your 50th version for showing your hate for Elway.

Ctrl-c, Ctrl-v.

[Mike]

This, and I want to see if he can learn from mistakes. Scags has shown ability to improve at least.

Now about those second half adjustments....

[Elevation inc]

Now about those second half adjustments....

Its interesting for sure....Devontae Had poor coverage and let digs burn him a bit, cost us 7 points, Chris Harris and the safety didn't communicate and it cost us 7, Dawson failed in coverage on Rudolph cost us 7......21 points we gave them in the second half and we had players in position to stop all 21 points and failed to do so.....not sure any adjustment could have solved what happened....

[broncofaninfla]

All indications are this story was about as accurate as a daily news release from CNN. Integrity in media, to include sports media is dead. Second hand sources and hearsay are now considered "news", add that to this list and take anything this hack says in the future with a grain of salt.

[MOtorboat]

I want to see Fangio and Scangarello with a decent QB and a decent O-line.

Good luck with that!

[GEM]

Both CHJ and Von came out and said the report is "absolute bullshit".

Sounds like Mr. La Canfora has been outed as a gossip hound and no longer should be taken seriously. Hey, maybe TMZ is hiring.

[MOtorboat]

If it’s all just bullshit, is anyone else a little disappointed that Fangio isn’t upset at the offense?

[Krugan]

Guess im in the minority when i say i hope there are issues there.

There should be, people arent doing their jobs, it isnt getting done. People should feel uncomfortable, including Fangio and Elway and the trustees.

This is unacceptable, not only from a fan standpoint, but im doubly sure it isnt from anyone directly or indirectly related to this franchise financially.

So please, i hope he makes peoples feelings hurt, because they should...

[slim]

If it’s all just bullshit, is anyone else a little disappointed that Fangio isn’t upset at the offense?

He can be concerned about the offense without alienating the coaching staff and players.

Also, maybe he should be concerned about his defense that is consistently giving up leads in the 4th quarter?

[MOtorboat]

He can be concerned about the offense without alienating the coaching staff and players.

Also, maybe he should be concerned about his defense that is consistently giving up leads in the 4th quarter?

Well. The team does suck.

[Jsteve01]

The thing no one is talking about is that the report mentions staff not players and all the people coming to Vic's defense are players. So I'm still not sure there isn't an issue here.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Appears that some of the thoughts today are his own - interesting


Stokley and Zach: Jason La Canfora defends his article

Jason La Canfora joined Stokley and Zach to discuss his divisive article about the Denver Broncos and internal struggles.

https://1043thefan.com/2084734/stokley-and-zach-jason-la-canfora-defends-his-vic-fangio-article/

[Jsteve01]

Can you give us a synopsis Carol? Can't watch video at work.

[LawDog]

Can you give us a synopsis Carol? Can't watch video at work.

Basically said that the story came to him, that people in the organization (sounds like staff not players) reached out to him about the issues. Also weighted heavily toward the offensive staff and reacting to Fangio's manner of criticizing during the games. On the player side, it appears that La Canfora was reading more into the E Sanders situation and extrapolating that out (which may be somewhat accurate as demonstrated by Von setting up the dinner on Sunday night to nip that stuff off, IMHO). Conversation then drifted into the ownership issues and the possibility that some major changes may occur starting in 2021 -- for a variety of reasons.

Also, what the hell is with Zach wearing that purple jacket? Is he a Vikings fan?

[Hawgdriver]

Basically said that the story came to him, that people in the organization (sounds like staff not players) reached out to him about the issues. Also weighted heavily toward the offensive staff and reacting to Fangio's manner of criticizing during the games. On the player side, it appears that La Canfora was reading more into the E Sanders situation and extrapolating that out (which may be somewhat accurate as demonstrated by Von setting up the dinner on Sunday night to nip that stuff off, IMHO). Conversation then drifted into the ownership issues and the possibility that some major changes may occur starting in 2021 -- for a variety of reasons.

Also, what the hell is with Zach wearing that purple jacket? Is he a Vikings fan?

Thank you.

[Cugel]

Well. The team does suck.

The team sucks because Elway hasn't drafted well or done a good job in FA for years now.

Just look at his big FA signings this off-season: JuWuan James, 4 years $51m, Bryce Callahan (who got the long term contract instead of Chris Harris), 3 years, $21m.

Neither of them were healthy enough to play at all.

Same thing with RB Theo Riddick who got $2.1m and who is on a 1 year deal.

Then there's the extension they inexplicably gave to Joe Flacco which makes for a $13m cap hit NEXT season.

They might just as well have burned the money in a big pit.

The coaching also hasn't been great, so, if there isn't tension in the building there should be.

[Timmy!]

The team sucks because Elway hasn't drafted well or done a good job in FA for years now.

Just look at his big FA signings this off-season: JuWuan James, 4 years $51m, Bryce Callahan (who got the long term contract instead of Chris Harris), 3 years, $21m.

Neither of them were healthy enough to play at all.

Same thing with RB Theo Riddick who got $2.1m and who is on a 1 year deal.

Then there's the extension they inexplicably gave to Joe Flacco which makes for a $13m cap hit NEXT season.

They might just as well have burned the money in a big pit.

The coaching also hasn't been great, so, if there isn't tension in the building there should be.

Actually, the Broncos can cut Flacco after the season, with no real penalty. They will owe his 2019 salary, that's it, because they DIDN'T EXTEND HIM. Look. Learn. Reaaaaadddddddd.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.milehighreport.com/platform/amp/2019/11/4/20944471/mythbusting-joe-flaccos-contract-salary-cap-no-dead-money

Also, Elways last two drafts are pretty solid, even moreso if Lock pans out. Also Simmons is homegrown, as is Wolfe, and several others. Elway most certainly has his failings, nobody is going to deny it, nor abould they, but this team has a pretty solid young core. Those FA's, you mentioned, well, if we get them back next year at 100% (yes, IF) that's basically two free impact FA's before the off-season even starts, where the Broncos will pick top 10, have extra picks AND 60+ in space. I know you don't hear this on the radio, because, well, folks like you tune in for drama and heresay. However, do us all a damn favor, do a little research, state facts instead of parroting media garbage, cut delete the Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V key bind shortcut, and maybe form your own opinion, for once.

https://media.tenor.com/images/ba7272e3d3f0519d2b323949b231fb7d/tenor.gif

[Hawgdriver]

Actually, the Broncos can cut Flacco after the season, with no real penalty. They will owe his 2019 salary, that's it, because they DIDN'T EXTEND HIM. Look. Learn. Reaaaaadddddddd.


Yeah Cugel you are a dope for using the Flacco restructure as a talking point.

But the points about Riddick and Callahan stand, as a dogpile on the Watson, Stephenson, and Su'a Cravens points. Lots of abysmally misspent FA capital. It's not up for debate, it's proven to be a terrible allocation of FA capital. It's fact.


Denver just needed some cap space, and Flacco’s contract was an easy way to get it.

Uh huh. Clear up cap space for what exactly, oh great bottom feeder?

The Manning FA spend? Not too shabby.

What is my point.

Elway has significant mistakes, and while Cugel is either kind of a parrot or he's not that inventive at synthesizing, those mistakes are a huge part of where the Broncos are at this very moment.

I don't appreciate the ... insipid? ... Elway hate, but the criticism has a basis.

[Elevation inc]

The thing no one is talking about is that the report mentions staff not players and all the people coming to Vic's defense are players. So I'm still not sure there isn't an issue here.


I absolutely believe there are some offensive staff members butt hurt and probably players complaining to said staff members about the gruffness Vic has shown to them in games, and Honestly I give 2 shits about it.....were f'in sucking....if your a position coach and your players are sucking OL, TE, WR and even RB can all be talked about or your a QB coach we def have gripes there. Combine that with what has been pretty shitty play calling all year and offensive output and well lets call a spade a spade.....

[Timmy!]

Yeah Cugel you are a dope for using the Flacco restructure as a talking point.

But the points about Riddick and Callahan stand, as a dogpile on the Watson, Stephenson, and Su'a Cravens points. Lots of abysmally misspent FA capital. It's not up for debate, it's proven to be a terrible allocation of FA capital. It's fact.



Uh huh. Clear up cap space for what exactly, oh great bottom feeder?

The Manning FA spend? Not too shabby.

What is my point.

Elway has significant mistakes, and while Cugel is either kind of a parrot or he's not that inventive at synthesizing, those mistakes are a huge part of where the Broncos are at this very moment.

I don't appreciate the ... insipid? ... Elway hate, but the criticism has a basis.

The critism is founded, and completely legit. The basing it on false things is well, false.

[Cugel]

Both CHJ and Von came out and said the report is "absolute bullshit".

Sounds like Mr. La Canfora has been outed as a gossip hound and no longer should be taken seriously. Hey, maybe TMZ is hiring.

After listening to his interview yesterday, it's pretty clear that he does have good sources inside Dove Valley. The players are spouting the company line here.

It seems like the sources are not players anyway but some of Fangio's coaches. It's also possible that someone in the front office near Elway is leaking as well.

This does not mean that the problem is as dire as he indicates. But, it would be ridiculous to assume that a team can lose it's first 4 games and then go on to a 3-7 record and there's no conflicts and dispute either among the players or coaching staff and front office.

Such conflicts have abounded the last 3 years and resulted in 2 coaches leaving and Elway firing numerous assistant coaches as well.

There is just no doubt that there is serious dysfunction in Dove Valley, but that does not mean they can't get it together and adapt. But, they need significantly better players to accomplish this.

Unfortunately, the Broncos best players like Chris Harris Derek Wolfe, and Justin Simmons are not under contract for next year. IF they leave as expected, then the defense would be significantly weaker in 2020.

[spikerman]

Unfortunately, the Broncos best players like Chris Harris Derek Wolfe, and Justin Simmons are not under contract for next year. IF they leave as expected, then the defense would be significantly weaker in 2020.

”As expected” by who? Yes, there has been talk about Wolfe and CHJ, but I don’t believe I’ve seen anybody report that Simmons is thought to be leaving.

[Valar Morghulis]

”As expected” by who? Yes, there has been talk about Wolfe and CHJ, but I don’t believe I’ve seen anybody report that Simmons is thought to be leaving.

I’m not sure Harris or Wolfe would fall under the category of our best players any more either

[Hawgdriver]

I’m not sure Harris or Wolfe would fall under the category of our best players any more either

Solid starters for sure. Those are always hard to replace. But seems like keeping them would be overpaying for the performance you get.

[Gimpygod]

I’ve been grumbling all year about play calling, as everyone obviously knows, so I’m predisposed to agree with, reportedly, Fangio here. But when you’re bottom five in the league and the head coach isn’t happy, this isn’t on the head coach’s ******* people skills.
Your avatar has reached a heretofore level of awesomeness never achieved by humanity...I salute you sir and wish the Broncos had drafted baby Yoda when they had the chance!

[Gimpygod]

I have to admit that I saw the word count and my eyes jumped about, looking for payoff. I read the ending, some leading sentences, but nothing grabbed me.

Kinger is an incisive fellow, that much is plain. But sometimes we just ramble and I wonder if that is the case here.

On the other hand, I should just buckle in and read his words. I think my impatience got the better of me, as it does from time to time.

Sorry Kinger.

You should see these old timey things they called books! Many exceeded 300 pages of nothing but words..crazy. Great Wall of Text is what books should have been called amIright?!

[Hawgdriver]

You should see these old timey things they called books! Many exceeded 300 pages of nothing but words..crazy. Great Wall of Text is what books should have been called amIright?!

:shudders:

Go tell these scary stories elsewhere!

;)

[Gimpygod]

We have had bitch ass players in our LR for a long time....Kubiak was a players coach through and through....VJ was a wannabe players coach...Fangio tells it how it is doesn't play favorites and is pretty blunt about it. No doubt in this new woke generation people have some hurt feelings about being told they aren't doing very well...

But we ain’t winning, if Fangio was a straight shooter dick and we were 7-3 I would have to listen. Heck, if we were 9-1, he could be baby Hitler and I would be all “both sides people!” As to today’s athletes being overly sensitive is a non starter argument. Coaches have to win with the talent available now and not time traveling players who wear leather helmets, eat gravel and find verbal abuse invigorating. Bill Parcels was a notorious hard ass and would give LT a handy if 56 managed to make a team meeting 30 minutes late and only half drunk 🥴.

[Hawgdriver]

...and not time traveling players who wear leather helmets, eat gravel and find verbal abuse invigorating. Bill Parcels was a notorious hard ass and would give LT a handy if 56 managed to make a team meeting 30 minutes late and only half drunk ��.

dude this is poetry

[Gimpygod]

Its interesting for sure....Devontae Had poor coverage and let digs burn him a bit, cost us 7 points, Chris Harris and the safety didn't communicate and it cost us 7, Dawson failed in coverage on Rudolph cost us 7......21 points we gave them in the second half and we had players in position to stop all 21 points and failed to do so.....not sure any adjustment could have solved what happened....
The adjustments where those things are accounted for and don’t happen. All football games come down to execution on a few plays, good and smart coaches make adjustments to put their players in favorable position.

[Valar Morghulis]

Bill Parcels was a notorious hard ass and would give LT a handy if 56 managed to make a team meeting 30 minutes late and only half drunk ��.

I sure wish I played for bill parcels

[Cugel]

”As expected” by who? Yes, there has been talk about Wolfe and CHJ, but I don’t believe I’ve seen anybody report that Simmons is thought to be leaving.

Do you listen to Denver Sports Radio (104.3 The Fan and Altitude Sports)? It's reported all the time.

Simmons signed a 4 year $3m contract in 2016 which expires this season. Elway once again failed to re-sign one of his star players BEFORE their contract expired so Simmons is a FA after this year.

Simmons is expected to make the Pro-Bowl this year and he will be possibly the top FA S in the market. He is expected to get around a $14m a year contract like other top S's - From OTC OvertheCap (https://overthecap.com/position/safety/):



Kevin Byard Titans
Total Value: $70,500,000
Average per Season:$14,100,000
$30,825,000 Guaranteed
2025 UFA



Tyrann Mathieu Chefs
$42,000,000
$14,000,000
$26,800,000
2022 UFA



Landon Collins Redskins
$84,000,000
$14,000,000
$44,500,000
2025 UFA



Earl Thomas Ravens
$55,000,000
$13,750,000
$32,000,000
2023 UFA



Reshad Jones Dolphins
$48,000,000
$12,000,000
$33,000,000
2022 UFA




Simmons will get a contract somewhere north of $14m a year on the open market. Denver will have to over-pay to keep him. Doubtful Elway is willing to give him a $50m + contract.

THAT is why it is assumed that Simmons might not be back. Certainly they are not keeping all three -- Harris, Simmons and Wolfe.

Once again Elway's idiot strategy of waiting until players hit FA and THEN trying to negotiate a "Team friendly deal" keeps backfiring on him. :tsk:

[Cugel]

But we ain’t winning, if Fangio was a straight shooter dick and we were 7-3 I would have to listen. Heck, if we were 9-1, he could be baby Hitler and I would be all “both sides people!” As to today’s athletes being overly sensitive is a non starter argument. Coaches have to win with the talent available now and not time traveling players who wear leather helmets, eat gravel and find verbal abuse invigorating. Bill Parcels was a notorious hard ass and would give LT a handy if 56 managed to make a team meeting 30 minutes late and only half drunk ��.

Modern coaching: Basically this. :beer:

versus: :shots: :cheers:

And not this: :throwrock:

NFL stars make tens of millions of $. They aren't desperate so they don't take kindly to coaches abuse. Ex: Antonio Brown can be a complete and total ass-hat and get himself barred from the NFL and it will make no difference to his ability to buy his own island. He's already made so much money he doesn't really need the job, he just wants the limelight.

[Northman]

Solid starters for sure. Those are always hard to replace. But seems like keeping them would be overpaying for the performance you get.

I would throw Von in that mix as well. Way to much money for lack of production.

[Poet]

I would throw Von in that mix as well. Way to much money for lack of production.

It's true.

[Timmy!]

Do you listen to Denver Sports Radio?



https://media.giphy.com/media/QWqH7oRfHwVKwb8YDL/giphy.gif

[spikerman]

Do you listen to Denver Sports Radio (104.3 The Fan and Altitude Sports)? It's reported all the time.

Take a look at my location in the upper right-hand side of my posts. I also listen to national shows on Sirius/XM. They have all referenced Wolfe and Harris possibly leaving, but not Simmons.

[Cugel]

Take a look at my location in the upper right-hand side of my posts. I also listen to national shows on Sirius/XM. They have all referenced Wolfe and Harris possibly leaving, but not Simmons.

They talked about Simmons just yesterday.

I just showed you his contract expires. What do you think is going to happen? That he'll magically re-sign in Denver unless they are willing to give him $14m a year?

Not happening unless the Broncos are willing to pay market rate for all three players. They could re-sign one or two of them. Probably Wolfe wouldn't get a huge deal. They signed Bryce Callahan to presumably take Harris' place after this year but after his injury they could decide to pay Harris. He wanted $15m a year last year, but he won't get that as he's over 30.

[Davii]

I just showed you his contract expires. What do you think is going to happen? That he'll magically re-sign in Denver unless they are willing to give him $14m a year?

Not happening.

:lol:

[Cugel]

I’m not sure Harris or Wolfe would fall under the category of our best players any more either

Wolfe is having a resurgent season under Fangio and is playing really well, making all kinds of plays. Still he's a DL who has a significant injury history so he's unlikely to get top $. They could probably re-sign him and not break the bank.

Simmons is likely to be the most expensive to re-sign. He would also probably be the Broncos top FA target, but who knows if they are willing to pay market rate?

[Cugel]

:lol:

15424
By all means Keep laughing!

[slim]

Cugel, don't listen to these clowns.

I, for one, appreciate your never ending regurgitation of what you hear on the fan.

Keep up the good work!!

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Good article

Analyzing What it'll Cost Broncos to Re-Sign S Justin Simmons

https://www.si.com/nfl/broncos/news/denver-broncos-cost-to-re-sign-s-justin-simmons/

[Cugel]

In the end, I wouldn't expect Simmons to set the market too high, but he's going to be among the higher-paid safeties. The Broncos could get away with not making Simmons the highest-paid safety in terms of APY salary, but Simmons' agent should certainly seek at least two years' worth of fully guaranteed money.

In the end, I expect the Broncos to get a deal done shortly after the season ends, but there will be concessions made on both sides. One thing is clear, though: No matter what those concessions are, Simmons is going to be in line for a big payday.

This article presumes that the Broncos will target Simmons as their highest priority re-signing, which is probably true. They have not wanted to commit long term to Chris Harris and have injury concerns about giving a big long-term extension to Derek Wolfe.

But, if they let either player go, there is no current viable replacement who could step in and do as good a job. So, that's a problem for a team that is already very talent deficient and needs to upgrade numerous positions let alone let what talent they do have get away!

[Cugel]

Cugel, don't listen to these clowns.

I, for one, appreciate your never ending regurgitation of what you hear on the fan.

Keep up the good work!!

Just leaves you more ignorant, that's all.

DOn't pretend you can know what's going on behind closed doors unless you pay attention to what the Broncos insiders are saying.

The team almost NEVER directly tells the truth to the fans about what is actually going on. Remember when they released Paxton Lynch? "Paxton is no longer a member of the team and nothing to see here, move it along!"

They released their former first round pick and instead of admitting "boy did we screw up!" they tried to bury it and expected the media to "Rah! Rah! Go Broncos!" about the Case Keenum plan!

The Fan is one of the few Denver sports radio stations talking about the dysfunction going on behind closed doors. And these are mostly former Broncos Players who are talking about it.

[MOtorboat]

Just leaves you more ignorant, that's all.

DOn't pretend you can know what's going on behind closed doors unless you pay attention to what the Broncos insiders are saying.

The team almost NEVER directly tells the truth to the fans about what is actually going on. Remember when they released Paxton Lynch? "Paxton is no longer a member of the team and nothing to see here, move it along!"

They released their former first round pick and instead of admitting "boy did we screw up!" they tried to bury it and expected the media to "Rah! Rah! Go Broncos!" about the Case Keenum plan!

The Fan is one of the few Denver sports radio stations talking about the dysfunction going on behind closed doors. And these are mostly former Broncos Players who are talking about it.

Lol.

[Poet]

You guys are so mean to Cugel.

[slim]

You guys are so mean to Cugel.

????

I just told him how much I appreciate him???

[Poet]

????

I just told him how much I appreciate him???

Tell Cugel you love him.

[slim]

Tell Cugel you love him.

My heart belongs to another!!

[slim]

Cugel, I like you but I don't like like you

[Poet]

My heart belongs to another!!

Cugel, I'm sorry. Slim is a monster.

[MOtorboat]

You guys are so mean to Cugel.

If I want to see what DMac has to say, I’ll check out his twitter feed,

[Timmy!]

If I want to see what DMac has to say, I’ll check out his twitter feed,

Don't talk about Cugel's mesiah like that!

[Poet]

Considering how the team quit today, there might be traction to this.

[Northman]

The only friction this team sees is getting raped by opposing teams every week.

[Hawgdriver]

The only friction this team sees is getting raped by opposing teams every week.

No lube lol

[Cugel]

Don't talk about Cugel's mesiah like that!

B.S. I can't stand DMAC. He's such a fat arrogant *******.

Sometimes they are right. But, to pretend that people like Troy Renck and others who spend almost every day at Dove Valley and report about what's going on don't know what they are talking about is just stupid. They do.

ANd they talk on the radio about what people inside the building are saying off-camera. And if you want to know what's going on you pay attention.

And then there are fans who just drink the Cool-Aid every single year and swallow whatever line management is putting out.

[Cugel]

Cugel, I like you but I don't like like you

15445

[Poet]

The team quit on him. His body language is awful, I'm tired of seeing him with a pained look on his face while he's bent over with his hands on his hips.

[Simple Jaded]

Cugel is my dawg.

[sneakers]

How many super bowls have the broncos won with defensive minded Head Coaches?

[slim]

B.S. I can't stand DMAC. He's such a fat arrogant *******.

Sometimes they are right. But, to pretend that people like Troy Renck and others who spend almost every day at Dove Valley and report about what's going on don't know what they are talking about is just stupid. They do.

ANd they talk on the radio about what people inside the building are saying off-camera. And if you want to know what's going on you pay attention.

And then there are fans who just drink the Cool-Aid every single year and swallow whatever line management is putting out.

Troy Renck isn't part of the fan...fyi

[slim]

15445

You should add yourself.

No offense, my like

[Elevation inc]

B.S. I can't stand DMAC. He's such a fat arrogant *******.

Sometimes they are right. But, to pretend that people like Troy Renck and others who spend almost every day at Dove Valley and report about what's going on don't know what they are talking about is just stupid. They do.

ANd they talk on the radio about what people inside the building are saying off-camera. And if you want to know what's going on you pay attention.

And then there are fans who just drink the Cool-Aid every single year and swallow whatever line management is putting out.


Don't you know that fans always know more then the people that get paid to do the actual reporting...to quote Jaded...it's Science.....:lol:

[Simple Jaded]

Don't you know that fans always know more then the people that get paid to do the actual reporting...to quote Jaded...it's Science.....:lol:

Trust science Inc!