Practice / press conference notes - week 11 (Vikings week)

[VonDoom]

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver 6m
Fangio: Drew Lock will start practicing this week

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver 7m
Fangio said some of Drew Lock’s reps would be on the scout team. Lock’s plan is “not mapped out” because “it’s going to be determined by how he looks and what he thinks.”

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver 6m
Fangio says he wants to see “good quarterback play ... that he belongs” from Lock on the practice field

Nicki Jhabvala @NickiJhabvala 7m
Vic Fangio said it's not set that Lock will definitely come off IR. Asked what he needs to see from Lock to make the determination, Fangio said: "Good quarterback play. That he belongs."

Nicki Jhabvala @NickiJhabvala 6m
Vic Fangio said a decision will be made on WR Tim Patrick — whether to activate him or leave him on IR — later in the week.

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver 5m
Fangio: Brandon Allen can influence the decision on Lock. “That’s part of the equation, as well,” so if the Broncos win some games with Allen and do well, that could impact when Lock gets on the field.

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver 5m
Fangio on the Vikings offense: “I think it’s the best offense that they’ve had since I’ve seen them the last few years.”

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver 5m
Fangio: Ja’Wuan James’ status is “up in the air” this week

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver 5m
Fangio: There will be practice tomorrow, not a “full-blown practice,” but about 25-26 snaps for offense and defense

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver 5m
Fangio: Bryce Callahan will try and practice tomorrow

Nicki Jhabvala @NickiJhabvala 4m
Will Parks and DeMarcus Walker will practice too, Fangio said. Jeff Heuerman is a "maybe."

[Shazam!]

They're pulling a Paxton Lynch with Drew Lock. Terribly mishandling the QBs

[Nomad]

While I would like to see Lock, I hope Allen is successful.

[Nomad]

They're pulling a Paxton Lynch with Drew Lock. Terribly mishandling the QBs

You believe Lock is 100%? Why would the coaches hold back if he wasn't?

[BroncoWave]

I imagine we'll see Lock at week 13, 14 at the latest. That still gives us 4-5 games to evaluate him this year.

[turftoad]

They're pulling a Paxton Lynch with Drew Lock. Terribly mishandling the QBs

They haven’t done anything yet. He’s gonna start to practice. They want to see how he has progressed. He hasn’t practiced as of yet.
Once he practices, they have 21 days to sign him to the active roster.

[VonDoom]

They haven’t done anything yet. He’s gonna start to practice. They want to see how he has progressed. He hasn’t practiced as of yet.
Once he practices, they have 21 days to sign him to the active roster.

He should have been practicing weeks ago, considering he was throwing a football in October. Really he shouldn’t have been IR’d at all. I’m with Shazam on this one.

Maybe they think he sucks or that we picked the wrong guy (a la Lynch) but it would be nice to see him on the field at some point one way or the other. As I’ve said before, QB is our biggest issue until it isn’t. This year should have been about doing everything they could to evaluate Lock and instead it feels like they’ve gone out of their way to not play him

[Nomad]

He should have been practicing weeks ago, considering he was throwing a football in October. Really he shouldn’t have been IR’d at all. I’m with Shazam on this one.

Maybe they think he sucks or that we picked the wrong guy (a la Lynch) but it would be nice to see him on the field at some point one way or the other. As I’ve said before, QB is our biggest issue until it isn’t. This year should have been about doing everything they could to evaluate Lock and instead it feels like they’ve gone out of their way to not play him

So what's the hold up?

[Nomad]

Lock was a 1st round pick at this time last year. Broncos moved around to get him. Why would he suck?

[Krugan]

Lock was a 1st round pick at this time last year. Broncos moved around to get him. Why would he suck?

He is a project, just like every pick this group has made at qb...

I dont think he ever truly should have been considered a first round talent, but that just my 2 cents.

[MOtorboat]

Lock’s plan isn’t mapped out?

What the **** are they doing, then?

I hope he’s just politicking for the media, because if he isn’t and he’s telling the truth that’s egregious. You better have a ******* plan. I’m going to choose to say he’s just politicking publicly. Yeah, that’s it.

[Poet]

So what is the timeline with Lock's injury?

[turftoad]

Holy crap you guys are impatient! Have you seen the kid? He looks like he’s 11.
He slipped to the second round because of it.
Once he looks 13 he may get a shot! :D

[MOtorboat]

So what is the timeline with Lock's injury?

What injury?

[turftoad]

What injury?

Supposed broken thumb. If true, I get it. I broke a thumb once. Not fun.
Brees came back from his pretty quick though.

[Poet]

What injury?

Did he need to be on IR?

[MOtorboat]

Did he need to be on IR?

From a certain point of view.

[Poet]

From a certain point of view.

Which POV has the best argument?

[MOtorboat]

Which POV has the best argument?

Well, I mean, in my opinion he shouldn’t have been because he was traveling and throwing by the first week of October and they hindered his scout team reps by doing it. But that’s an opinion, not a fact.

There’s an argument to sitting young quarterbacks. I just don’t like it, and I see the IR designation as a bad excuse to sit him.

[Poet]

Well, I mean, in my opinion he shouldn’t have been because he was traveling and throwing by the first week of October and they hindered his scout team reps by doing it. But that’s an opinion, not a fact.

There’s an argument to sitting young quarterbacks. I just don’t like it, and I see the IR designation as a bad excuse to sit him.

So he didn't have to be IR'd/there was a solid reason to not IR him, and now we invented an excuse to not play him sooner because of the IR placement?

[turftoad]

Well, I mean, in my opinion he shouldn’t have been because he was traveling and throwing by the first week of October and they hindered his scout team reps by doing it. But that’s an opinion, not a fact.

There’s an argument to sitting young quarterbacks. I just don’t like it, and I see the IR designation as a bad excuse to sit him.

Have you seen our O line Mo? I get where you are coming from but why get the guy killed right off the bat?
Remember David Carr?

[MOtorboat]

Have you seen our O line Mo? I get where you are coming from but why get the guy killed right off the bat?
Remember David Carr?

I hate this excuse so much.

[turftoad]

I hate this excuse so much.

Me to but it’s kinda true. Bolles is terrible.

[Poet]

Have you seen our O line Mo? I get where you are coming from but why get the guy killed right off the bat?
Remember David Carr?

Why keep a GM who can't build an o-line in a decade?

[MOtorboat]

Me to but it’s kinda true. Bolles is terrible.

Bolles is bad in pass protection, and the line has been below league average in the passing game and above average in the rushing game, in fact, it's No. 6 in DVOA. This line isn't that Texans line. That line was allowing a sack every five attempts. The Broncos are allowing a sack every nine and is on pace to give up roughly 55-58, which is 20 sacks less than that Texan line in an era where teams are passing it way more. Carr had 444 attempts that season, the Broncos will probably have ~500 attempts.

And Carr is an outlier. He got sacked 20 times more than any other quarterback in any other season. That season was an anomaly. It's a bad excuse. That's all it is.

[Cugel]

Well, I mean, in my opinion he shouldn’t have been because he was traveling and throwing by the first week of October and they hindered his scout team reps by doing it. But that’s an opinion, not a fact.

There’s an argument to sitting young quarterbacks. I just don’t like it, and I see the IR designation as a bad excuse to sit him.

It's a fact, reported by 7News Broncos Insider Troy Renck that Drew Lock has been throwing for over a month now. He's been physically healthy enough to practice all of October. He never should have been placed on IR and he should have been taken off IR as soon as possible.

But, as with everything about the Broncos -- it all makes "sense" when you understand Elway's idiot fixation about "wining now" despite the obvious and proven fact that he doesn't have good enough talent to 'win now."

Putting him on IR (when they didn't put Bryce Callahan or Juwann James on IR neither of whom could actually play due to injury or even Ron Leary who has simply been ineffective because he's toughing it out despite chronic injury), was because Lock wasn't expected to help them win this season.

Screw the future, because Elway is always about "we're going Plan 'A!'"


By: Troy Renck

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. — Lock will begin practicing Tuesday -- much to the delight of many Broncos fans -- creating a potential path to the starting lineup in early December.

So what's next for Allen and Lock? To be determined.

If Allen posts victories in the next two games at Minnesota and Buffalo, he keeps the job. The reality is until the Broncos reach eight losses, they will view themselves as a contender. As such, coach Vic Fangio wants to win games, not focus on the development of a young quarterback. However, if the Broncos hit eight losses, it makes sense to play Lock at some point in early December, allowing for a read on the rookie before entering the offseason and preparing for the draft.

Fangio discussed the situation Monday.

"Our whole focus is to try to get to 4-6, as bad as that sounds. We’re trying to win the game we play this week. Whether that includes or doesn’t include Drew down the road remains to be seen," Fangio said. "We are going to try and get Drew as many reps as we can, and some of that will be scout team. You gotta remember this guy hasn't been in a huddle since middle August."

Will Lock be the backup this week? And is their a blueprint to follow?

"It's not mapped out because it is going to be determine by how he looks and what we think," Fangio said. "We need to see good quarterback play (from Lock). That he belongs."

"Based on the coach's explanation, I attempt to connect the dots. If the Broncos go 1-1 over the next two weeks, Allen keeps the job. Again, the magic number for a pocket change is likely eight losses. If Denver drops both games, it increases the likelihood Lock starts, if his practice sessions go well over the next few weeks." -- Troy Renck (https://www.thedenverchannel.com/sports/broncos/broncos-return-after-bye-to-face-vikings-as-questions-about-lock-persist).

What conceivable relevance does 8 losses have when the season was toast after they dropped the 4th game? No team has gotten to the playoffs after starting 0-4.

So, what's the point of trying to win meaningless games instead of building for the future? Elway's ego. He's still insisting that "we're not that far off!" If they can get to 7 wins he can say "see! We just need to strengthen a few pieces to put around Joe Flacco and then we'll compete for the division!"

So, the fan and media fixation about "when are we going to see Drew Lock!?" is just a distraction to them. That's why you kept hearing insane idiocy like "we might want to bring Theo Riddick off IR instead of Drew Lock."

Why on God's earth would they want to keep Lock on IR and promote Theo Riddick -- who is on an expiring 1 year contract?

He helps them to "win now!" :tsk:

"As Fangio explained to me last week, the Broncos could be better than 3-6, especially when looking at their point-differential (170 allowed, 149 scored), but they could not be worse. They have been walked off three times by the Bears, Jaguars and Colts. -- Troy Renck"

Only loser teams make excuses like "with a few lucky bounces we could be 5-4!" But, that's what Elway believes "we're better than our record."

[Cugel]

Every fan wants to win championships. If they can't compete with KC or New England because Flacco is mediocre, then get a better QB so you can compete.

But, that's not how John Elway thinks obviously. He's all about "win now!" even when it's pointless and even self-defeating to try and "win now!" All winning this season gets you is a worse draft pick next year.

But, what if Elway doesn't care about their draft position, because he has no plans to draft a QB at all, and just wants to win enough games so that there's not intense fan and media speculation about the Broncos "having to draft a QB."

To replace Joe Flacco -- who is Elway's guy. It all lines up people. He just wants to stick with a veteran QB like Joe Flacco for this year and next year and the year after that. Then Flacco's contract expires and so does Elway's.

That's why they are in no rush to see what they have in Drew Lock. He's just a rookie backup and you're not going to put him in there when you're trying to win games now. He doesn't give you the "best chance to win Sunday."

[Krugan]

Every fan wants to win championships. If they can't compete with KC or New England because Flacco is mediocre, then get a better QB so you can compete.

But, that's not how John Elway thinks obviously. He's all about "win now!" even when it's pointless and even self-defeating to try and "win now!" All winning this season gets you is a worse draft pick next year.

But, what if Elway doesn't care about their draft position, because he has no plans to draft a QB at all, and just wants to win enough games so that there's not intense fan and media speculation about the Broncos "having to draft a QB."

To replace Joe Flacco -- who is Elway's guy. It all lines up people. He just wants to stick with a veteran QB like Joe Flacco for this year and next year and the year after that. Then Flacco's contract expires and so does Elway's.

That's why they are in no rush to see what they have in Drew Lock. He's just a rookie backup and you're not going to put him in there when you're trying to win games now. He doesn't give you the "best chance to win Sunday."

Honestly, are they supposed to try and win or just tank? How does that promote a positive culture?

Man, i swear, there is no way to do right. Just follow the fan flow of emotions and have no structure....

[underrated29]

Why keep a GM who can't build an o-line in a decade?

Because he brought two super bowls in half a decade....most likely

[Davii]

Honestly, are they supposed to try and win or just tank? How does that promote a positive culture?

Man, i swear, there is no way to do right. Just follow the fan flow of emotions and have no structure....

Oh no Krugan, we can't have that in here. They must absolutely tank, fire everyone, and burn down the building.

So it has been written...

For the record, I feel "tanking" is exactly what creates a culture like they have in Cleveland or Cincinnati, etc. You try and win games no matter what.

I don't agree with not developing Lock sooner, but they're doing it.

[Davii]

Because he brought two super bowls in half a decade....most likely

Winning one and he won "a few" other trophies along the way as well.

[Shazam!]

Lock looked OK im preseason and his play approved in the limited time he had played

I dont think he should have even been on IR for a thumb injury that didn't need surgery.

They thought itnwas going to be Flacco all year then they got a rude awakening.

He should have been practicing immediately when Flacco was out.

[Bronco4ever]

We should have IR’ed Callahan and kept Lock inactive (Allen as backup) until Lock was healed. I’m not sure how they think Lock would progress by not practicing. We need to see Lock play at least 3-4 games this season or else the season is mostly a waste.

[MOtorboat]

Honestly, are they supposed to try and win or just tank? How does that promote a positive culture?

Man, i swear, there is no way to do right. Just follow the fan flow of emotions and have no structure....

For the record, I’m not advocating for tanking. I’m solely advocating drafting a quarterback and building around him, not trying to build this makeshift offense with a “veteran,” while the rookie sits with no reps. Lock should have been practicing the second he was even remotely healthy, which is why IR was so baffling. If he’s not even ready for that, ****, what are they doing in the scouting department?

[Davii]

For the record, I’m not advocating for tanking. I’m solely advocating drafting a quarterback and building around him, not trying to build this makeshift offense with a “veteran,” while the rookie sits with no reps. Lock should have been practicing the second he was even remotely healthy, which is why IR was so baffling. If he’s not even ready for that, ****, what are they doing in the scouting department?

No disagreement there. I think the main issue lies with the scouting. If Lock is our guy let's see it. If not, get the best QB we can get in this upcoming class and let's roll.

[Krugan]

For the record, I’m not advocating for tanking. I’m solely advocating drafting a quarterback and building around him, not trying to build this makeshift offense with a “veteran,” while the rookie sits with no reps. Lock should have been practicing the second he was even remotely healthy, which is why IR was so baffling. If he’s not even ready for that, ****, what are they doing in the scouting department?

Ill agree here, but he cant be out there right now, just not a good plan after not having reps since august.

They screwed the pouch here for sure.

[Shazam!]

But thats the thing WHY no practice since August? He shouldn't have been shelved for so long. I think Elwat and Co. thought theyd be better than 3-6 and that theyd take Tim and Theo off IR and taht woulda boosted the offense If they were closer to .500.

Very narrow thinking there staking it all on Flacco.

[Davii]

But thats the thing WHY no practice since August? He shouldn't have been shelved for so long. I think Elwat and Co. thought theyd be better than 3-6 and that theyd take Tim and Theo off IR and taht woulda boosted the offense If they were closer to .500.

Very narrow thinking there staking it all on Flacco.

Or maybe they thought the injury would take longer to heal than it did.

[Shazam!]

But thats the thing WHY no practice since August? He shouldn't have been shelved for so long. I think Elwat and Co. thought theyd be better than 3-6 and that theyd take Tim and Theo off IR and taht woulda boosted the offense If they were closer to .500.

Very narrow thinking there staking it all on Flacco.

Or maybe they thought the injury would take longer to heal than it did.

It was a sprained thumb. No surgery required. Players have come back to start for less.

[Davii]

It was a sprained thumb. No surgery required. Players have come back to start for less.

Sure, and they thought it would take longer to heal, they didn't want to carry three QBs on the 53, and they would be morons to think they could get him on the PS.

There were a few other guys (Callahan etc) they should've stashed on IR and didn't but when you can ONLY bring back two people you can't stash everyone. You keep the guys who you expect to need sooner off IR.

There are very rational thoughts to why he was on IR.

[Shazam!]

It was a sprained thumb. No surgery required. Players have come back to start for less.

Sure, and they thought it would take longer to heal, they didn't want to carry three QBs on the 53, and they would be morons to think they could get him on the PS.

There were a few other guys (Callahan etc) they should've stashed on IR and didn't but when you can ONLY bring back two people you can't stash everyone. You keep the guys who you expect to need sooner off IR.

There are very rational thoughts to why he was on IR.

So you think theres no issue with Them bringing him along as they have

[Northman]

There is being cautious and then there is coddling a young QB because you are afraid of breaking his mentality. If Lock cant handle adversity than he's the wrong guy for the job, nuff said.

[turftoad]

So you think theres no issue with Them bringing him along as they have

I myself don’t think so.
Flacco was supposed to start and play well. He started. Enough said.
That would have given Lock some time to become acclimated. Most teams would like to give time to rookies. As we all know it’s a huge jump from college to the Pro’s.
There is no perfect world I guess.

[Shazam!]

Theyre just in such a bad situation with good QBs coming out next year. Den CANNOT miss on Drafting a QB next year and by whiffing on Lock. That is a recipe for disaster.

He shoulda been activated as soon as his hand was healed and been practicing.

Keep in mind They trotted out a guy with zero starts last week...

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Is Drew Lock not mentally ready to run Broncos offense?

https://www.milehighreport.com/2019/10/30/20940596/is-drew-lock-not-mentally-ready-to-run-broncos-offense


Elway: Rookie Drew Lock 'not ready to go right now'

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001068944/article/elway-rookie-drew-lock-not-ready-to-go-right-now

[Davii]

So you think theres no issue with Them bringing him along as they have

Do you only read every third post I make?

I've said, repeatedly, that he should've been brought up sooner. However, to paint this as some massive John Elway bungle and a dumb move, etc is shortsighted at best and doesn't take into account realities at the time the initial decision was made.

[Davii]

Theyre just in such a bad situation with good QBs coming out next year. Den CANNOT miss on Drafting a QB next year and by whiffing on Lock. That is a recipe for disaster.

He shoulda been activated as soon as his hand was healed and been practicing.

Keep in mind They trotted out a guy with zero starts last week...

He couldn't be allowed to even practice until the Browns week. At that point there's almost zero chance he starts and you waste a week of decision time with the bye week coming up.

Again, rational reasons.

I feel he should've been practicing, Elway obviously disagreed. He has a rational reason for doing so.

[Northman]

Is Drew Lock not mentally ready to run Broncos offense?

https://www.milehighreport.com/2019/10/30/20940596/is-drew-lock-not-mentally-ready-to-run-broncos-offense


Elway: Rookie Drew Lock 'not ready to go right now'

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001068944/article/elway-rookie-drew-lock-not-ready-to-go-right-now


If he's not ready and Allen is than we should roll with Allen as our future and try to trade Lock for some picks. I just kind of find it hard to believe that Allen is that much more ready that Lock is at this point.

[LawDog]

If he's not ready and Allen is than we should roll with Allen as our future and try to trade Lock for some picks. I just kind of find it hard to believe that Allen is that much more ready that Lock is at this point.

Other than the fact that Allen has been practicing as QB2 all season and Lock hasn't?

[MOtorboat]

I too have issues with the second round pick not being ready to handle shit, but having no problem throwing two UDFAs at it.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

If he's not ready and Allen is than we should roll with Allen as our future and try to trade Lock for some picks. I just kind of find it hard to believe that Allen is that much more ready that Lock is at this point.

It appears that the feeling is that Lock may not be mentally ready.

[Davii]

I too have issues with the second round pick not being ready to handle shit, but having no problem throwing two UDFAs at it.

My issues are that Lock SHOULD be ready to at least practice, I also question how one could know he's not ready without letting him practice.

I take no issue with Allen or Rypien being further along mentally, they've been practicing and being coached but Lock will never "be ready" if we don't give him the opportunity to get that way

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Troy Renck
‏Verified account @TroyRenck
1h1 hour ago

#Broncos sign linebacker Malik Carney and safety Tyvis Powell to their practice squad. #Denver7

Troy Renck
‏Verified account @TroyRenck
1h1 hour ago

#Broncos QBs getting in throws #Denver7

Troy Renck
‏Verified account @TroyRenck
2h2 hours ago

#Broncos Bryce Callahan is practicing. He’s testing his foot this week after seeing a specialist. If doesn’t respond soon will be candidate for IR. Stinks. He’s a terrific player when healthy #Denver7

Troy Renck
‏Verified account @TroyRenck
2h2 hours ago

#Broncos @JawuanJames70 told me he’s not practicing today. Last Left knee injury vs Colts interrupted healing process, but it isn’t as bad as when hurt it at Oakland. Fully expects to play again soon. Just not sure when yet. He’s due some good luck. #Denver7

Troy Renck
‏Verified account @TroyRenck
2h2 hours ago

It is happening. #Broncos @DrewLock23 is practicing. #Denver7

[Northman]

It appears that the feeling is that Lock may not be mentally ready.

That was my point, we keep taking QB's who are projects and its increasingly frustrating.

[Northman]

Other than the fact that Allen has been practicing as QB2 all season and Lock hasn't?

We talkin about practice....

[spikerman]

My issue is that if they only let him play the last game or two that doesn’t tell them anything. I was in Tampa at the game a few years ago when Lynch came in for an injured Siemian. Lynch looked pretty damn good for that one game. My biggest concern is they’ll screw around and wait so long that, with a QB heavy draft class coming up, they’ll get to the draft and still have no idea if Lock can actually play or not.

[Northman]

My issue is that if they only let him play the last game or two that doesn’t tell them anything. I was in Tampa at the game a few years ago when Lynch came in for an injured Siemian. Lynch looked pretty damn good for that one game. My biggest concern is they’ll screw around and wait so long that, with a QB heavy draft class coming up, they’ll get to the draft and still have no idea if Lock can actually play or not.

Exactly.

[Poet]

We don't understand Quarterbacking.

[Krugan]

Ive been reading scouting and pre draft reports about Lock today, ive seen comparisons to Paxton Lynch at least 2 times 1 here (not real familiar with this group) https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/drew-lock

I cant imagine he was drafted to start this year, at all. He was a project from the get go....

Im not really sure that trotting him out there, on limited practice, is going to give any real useful information on him at all. Had he been practicing all along, then you can make a more solid analysis, but as it sits right now, no matter how many games he plays, your still looking at a project with minimal time in a project role.

[Northman]

We don't understand Quarterbacking.

Sadly we really dont, had Manning chose to go elsewhere we would have been on 10 plus years of bad football. We may still face that as we speak.

[Northman]

Ive been reading scouting and pre draft reports about Lock today, ive seen comparisons to Paxton Lynch at least 2 times 1 here (not real familiar with this group) https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/drew-lock

I cant imagine he was drafted to start this year, at all. He was a project from the get go....

Im not really sure that trotting him out there, on limited practice, is going to give any real useful information on him at all. Had he been practicing all along, then you can make a more solid analysis, but as it sits right now, no matter how many games he plays, your still looking at a project with minimal time in a project role.

Then in my opinion Denver should move him elsewhere and draft a QB next year who is more NFL ready. We need to get that position solidified now, not later.

[Davii]

Sadly we really dont, had Manning chose to go elsewhere we would have been on 10 plus years of bad football. We may still face that as we speak.

There's no telling what would've happened had Manning not come here. Maybe we drafted a QB higher, maybe we hit on one with a high pick, etc.

[Krugan]

Then in my opinion Denver should move him elsewhere and draft a QB next year who is more NFL ready. We need to get that position solidified now, not later.

Not going to argue that.

Just saying the idea of playing him this year is really kinda irrelevant. How can you get a good read on someone who is only just getting to practice, but needed alot to begin with.

[Northman]

There's no telling what would've happened had Manning not come here. Maybe we drafted a QB higher, maybe we hit on one with a high pick, etc.

Im not confident in that at all, nothing has shown me we would have done that personally.

[Northman]

Not going to argue that.

Just saying the idea of playing him this year is really kinda irrelevant. How can you get a good read on someone who is only just getting to practice, but needed alot to begin with.

It was always my understanding that Lock was a true first round grade, not a reach like Lynch. But, if you are correct and Lock is just another project than waiting for another 2 years only to find out he is another bust is just wasted time.

[Northman]

And, if Lock is truly a project than i think we can get used to seeing more Flacco next year. Its been Elway's MO when it comes to his pet projects.

[Davii]

It was always my understanding that Lock was a true first round grade, not a reach like Lynch. But, if you are correct and Lock is just another project than waiting for another 2 years only to find out he is another bust is just wasted time.

I say we draft the best QB we can get regardless. Nothing wrong with finding two guys that can play the position as one can be used for a nice trade if it comes to that.

[Northman]

I say we draft the best QB we can get regardless. Nothing wrong with finding two guys that can play the position as one can be used for a nice trade if it comes to that.

Its an option but we also need Oline help in the worst way. Its why if we at least played Lock this year we could see if the potential is there or not.

[spikerman]

I don’t think we can expect Lock to come in light it up. I think the team just needs to see signs that he “gets it.”

[Northman]

It isnt about winning ballgames, its about whether or not he can play the position.

[Cugel]

Then in my opinion Denver should move him elsewhere and draft a QB next year who is more NFL ready. We need to get that position solidified now, not later.

You mean as opposed to the Elway plan of:

1. Joe Flacco is the future this year and for the next 2, so renegotiate his contract so as to have more dead cap space next year if they move on from Flacco?

2. Don't play Drew Lock so we don't see what we have in him! Instead waste time with scrubs like Brandon Allen?

3. Don't draft a QB next year because they have Drew Lock, although they have no idea whether he will ever be a franchise QB?

That plan? I like your plan better. :coffee:

[Cugel]

It isnt about winning ballgames, its about whether or not he can play the position.

Exactly! What the FLIP is the point of winning games this year when it only gets you a worse draft position?

"We haven't given up on the season!"

Well, then they are criminally stupid, because after you lose the first 4 games, the season is done. Period. Nobody is making the playoffs after 0-4. You'd have to go 10-2 the rest of the way to get a wild card. And at 3-6? They'd have to win out.

There is ZERO chance of that happening, and the fact they can't understand and accept that reality is proof of negligent mismanagement.

Elway is just trying to have a winning record because of his ego, but 9-7 would be the absolute worst thing that could happen to this team.

Fortunately they are incapable of winning 6 games, so Elway is protected from his own incompetence. He might be trying to "win now" but they are getting a top 5 draft pick regardless.

[Krugan]

So being 2 games out of first in the west doesnt mean anything?

I mean really there isnt anyone in this division running away with anything....

Again, the goal is to win every game, I dont see why trying to win is a bad thing.

And secondly, with the amount of bitching about how we draft, should we not be rooting we cant **** up a high selection, by not having a high selection?

[Hawgdriver]

So being 2 games out of first in the west doesnt mean anything?

I mean really there isnt anyone in this division running away with anything....

Again, the goal is to win every game, I dont see why trying to win is a bad thing.

And secondly, with the amount of bitching about how we draft, should you not be rooting we cant **** up a high selection, by not having a high selection?

http://www.playoffstatus.com/nfl/nflpostseasonprob.html

[MOtorboat]

http://www.playoffstatus.com/nfl/nflpostseasonprob.html

“Never tell me the odds!”
-John Solo. Probably.

[Northman]

So being 2 games out of first in the west doesnt mean anything?

I mean really there isnt anyone in this division running away with anything....

Again, the goal is to win every game, I dont see why trying to win is a bad thing.

And secondly, with the amount of bitching about how we draft, should we not be rooting we cant **** up a high selection, by not having a high selection?

If you honestly can say you think we can not only get to the playoffs this year but win the SB with the squad we have than i really dont know what else to ******* say. Yes, parity exists but there is also the reality of how we stack up to teams and we are not that good despite our position in our own division. I honestly didnt think i had to point out the obvious there.

JFC some fans are just ******* completely clueless about where this team is. Sorry Kurgan, not really meaning to lash out you but i just baffled than anyone thinks we can contend for anything this year. Its just mind boggling to me.

[Poet]

I say we draft the best QB we can get regardless. Nothing wrong with finding two guys that can play the position as one can be used for a nice trade if it comes to that.

I'm conflicted between this idea and drafting a LT.

[Krugan]

If you honestly can say you think we can not only get to the playoffs this year but win the SB with the squad we have than i really dont know what else to ******* say. Yes, parity exists but there is also the reality of how we stack up to teams and we are not that good despite our position in our own division. I honestly didnt think i had to point out the obvious there.

JFC some fans are just ******* completely clueless about where this team is. Sorry Kurgan, not really meaning to lash out you but i just baffled than anyone thinks we can contend for anything this year. Its just mind boggling to me.

I think the point is missed. Im not being linear here at all, its not all or nothing. Dont over read what im saying here, its just a opinion on what or why we would still trot out whomever any given day.

You have to put the players out there that are prepared and give you the best chance to win, it really does not matter how much perception or feelings there are.

I'm sure you get that, and that's my stance.

I don't think this team is any good at all, but that being said, i still think you have to play it like you do, even if your 0 and forever.

Lastly, just because it has not happened, does not mean it cant, so, just keep playing like it is. Its the right approach.

[Poet]

You have an obligation to build the team toward success.

[Northman]

I think the point is missed. Im not being linear here at all, its not all or nothing. Dont over read what im saying here, its just a opinion on what or why we would still trot out whomever any given day.

You have to put the players out there that are prepared and give you the best chance to win, it really does not matter how much perception or feelings there are.

I'm sure you get that, and that's my stance.

I don't think this team is any good at all, but that being said, i still think you have to play it like you do, even if your 0 and forever.

Lastly, just because it has not happened, does not mean it cant, so, just keep playing like it is. Its the right approach.


Thats just it for me, even if we play Lock that isnt me believing that we arent trying or packing it in. It just means that we are ready to move onto the next stage at that position. We just cannot be afraid to let our young QB fail while out there, if we are scared of that than we will never find a franchise guy going forward. We have to let them get in there and take their lumps, and who knows? Maybe we win some games along the way.

[Poet]

We have the wrong GM for where the franchise is right now.

[Davii]

We have the wrong GM for where the franchise is right now.

He fixed it after McD. He's earned the few years he has left on his contract. If we're not in a MUCH better place at that point he should be dismissed.

I still think Ellis should bring in help, more scouts etc

[spikerman]

Elway is doing fine. He’s no worse at picking QBs than any other GM. I just wish he’d change his philosophy on playing young QBs.

[Poet]

Elway is doing fine. He’s no worse at picking QBs than any other GM. I just wish he’d change his philosophy on playing young QBs.

How many other GMs are signing Keenum and trading for Flacco? How many teams are trotting out seventh round scrubs like TS to start? He is not doing fine. The best QB he's drafted or traded for is Brock...that's not doing fine.

[Poet]

He fixed it after McD. He's earned the few years he has left on his contract. If we're not in a MUCH better place at that point he should be dismissed.

I still think Ellis should bring in help, more scouts etc

He fixed it via a once-a-decade-if-that-circumstance. He's yet to show he can fix it when there's not lightening in the bottle. He's already shitting the bed with handling Lock. IMO.

[spikerman]

How many other GMs are signing Keenum and trading for Flacco? How many teams are trotting out seventh round scrubs like TS to start? He is not doing fine. The best QB he's drafted or traded for is Brock...that's not doing fine.
Who is good at consistently picking QBs? It’s hard.

[Poet]

Who is good at consistently picking QBs? It’s hard.

When you land one you don't have to keep going back to the well. I'd say Andy Reid has a good track record with QB's. New England has found Brady, Brisset, Jimmy G, and even Cassel was a starter for awhile. How many GM's have had as many chances to find a QB as Elway?

[spikerman]

When you land one you don't have to keep going back to the well. I'd say Andy Reid has a good track record with QB's. New England has found Brady, Brisset, Jimmy G, and even Cassel was a starter for awhile. How many GM's have had as many chances to find a QB as Elway?

Let’s talk New England. I’m on record as saying I think Brady is overrated, but let’s say he’s not. Why did NE wait until the 6th round to draft him? Garroppalo and Brissett are still unknowns. If they were that smart wouldn’t Brady have been their first pick? I’m just saying it’s a crapshoot. I’d bet Elway’s success rate is on par with most GMs.

[Davii]

He fixed it via a once-a-decade-if-that-circumstance. He's yet to show he can fix it when there's not lightening in the bottle. He's already shitting the bed with handling Lock. IMO.

Doesn't matter. He fixed it. One SB championship, two AFC championships, 5 division championships, 7 playoff appearances.

VERY FEW GMs in the league can boast such performance over the same amount of time, active or not.

He has earned the right to finish his contract and keep trying.

[Poet]

Doesn't matter. He fixed it. One SB championship, two AFC championships, 5 division championships, 7 playoff appearances.

VERY FEW GMs in the league can boast such performance over the same amount of time, active or not.

He has earned the right to finish his contract and keep trying.

Of course it matters. If you can't consistently fix a problem, or THE problem and that problem is the most pressing one for a franchise, it matters. You're giving me accomplishments with Manning and the defense that was greatly bolstered because of PFM.

He had earned it this year up until the bungling of Lock. I like Elway a lot, too. But he's beholden to the franchise, not the other way around. Since PFM we had one winning record -running off of the fumes of the SB defense- and utter garbage since then. A carousel of bad QB's and listless offenses. We're going to end up in another losing season again.

[Davii]

Of course it matters. If you can't consistently fix a problem, or THE problem and that problem is the most pressing one for a franchise, it matters. You're giving me accomplishments with Manning and the defense that was greatly bolstered because of PFM.

He had earned it this year up until the bungling of Lock. I like Elway a lot, too. But he's beholden to the franchise, not the other way around. Since PFM we had one winning record -running off of the fumes of the SB defense- and utter garbage since then. A carousel of bad QB's and listless offenses. We're going to end up in another losing season again.

Elway has earned the right to not be fired. When his contract is up in a few years if we're not vastly improved he goes away.

He has earned that loyalty and opportunity.

We've had three losing seasons including this one. Big deal. If it continues you don't resign him.

[Poet]

Elway has earned the right to not be fired. When his contract is up in a few years if we're not vastly improved he goes away.

He has earned that loyalty and opportunity.

We've had three losing seasons including this one. Big deal. If it continues you don't resign him.

How do you earn the right to not be fired in a what have you done for me lately business? How do you earn the right to not be fired, via several more years on a contract when you have rebuilding results via record, but not rebuilding results via talent on the time. It's not just three losing seasons. It's three losing seasons with the same mistakes being made at QB again and again.

[Cugel]

Elway has earned the right to not be fired. When his contract is up in a few years if we're not vastly improved he goes away.

He has earned that loyalty and opportunity.

We've had three losing seasons including this one. Big deal. If it continues you don't resign him.
The Broncos haven't had back to back to back losing seasons since the old AFL days of the 1970s. He has NOT earned endless loyalty. A SB win gets you a few seasons of failure. That ends with this season.

Elway is widely expected not to want to return on another contract by people who claim to know him.

That's the point. He doesn't want to rebuild because he's not going to be here to benefit from it. By the time the Broncos have rebuilt with a new young drafted QB Elway is expected to be moving on.

Plus, Joe Ellis might be leaving too since he's expected to want to retire at some point, and the obvious point for Joe Ellis to leave would be when a new owner is appointed by the Trust, or if the Trust sells the team to a new owner.

That is expected to happen in the next couple years too, since they are grooming Bowlen's daughter to take over the team.

It all points to Elway and Ellis leaving at the same time. Could be Elway wants to stay? Maybe -- IF he's wildly successful in the mean time they might want him back.

Dude has over $150m. He doesn't have to do this stuff.

[Cugel]

How do you earn the right to not be fired in a what have you done for me lately business? How do you earn the right to not be fired, via several more years on a contract when you have rebuilding results via record, but not rebuilding results via talent on the time. It's not just three losing seasons. It's three losing seasons with the same mistakes being made at QB again and again.

You're entirely right King. These guys have their heads up their butts and don't get it.

Elway should be fired not because of past failure or even for this season's failure.

It's because he flat doesn't get it. He's failed over and over to even identify the problems let alone fix them.

He has passed on QB after QB who has gone on to have NFL success. Lamar Jackson is only the latest one.

Meanwhile he's refused to address the OL, has made questionable FA acquisitions, and has meanwhile horribly mismanaged his own FAs (why are his best two defenders other than Von on expiring contracts expected to get big FA contracts from other teams -- Chris Harris and Justin Simmons)?

Just blatant incompetence. Either they walk, dramatically weakening the defense, or else the team has to overpay. Why were these key defenders not locked up before the season -- other teams manage to do that, why not the Broncos?

He deserves to be fired because there is no realistic chance the team is going to get appreciably better under his watch.

[Davii]

"Endless loyalty"

You clearly have reading comprehension problems. There's an end, he has a contract.

[Poet]

"Endless loyalty"

You clearly have reading comprehension problems. There's an end, he has a contract.

In the very literal sense, yes you are correct here.

[Davii]

In the very literal sense, yes you are correct here.

And that's where the loyalty line is drawn. You do not fire John Elway. You don't renew his contract and you "let him retire".

IF John can't handle it you let him retire early but you do not fire a John Elway. Like it or not he has brought much of the success we're spoiled by and he has earned loyalty through that.

[Poet]

And that's where the loyalty line is drawn. You do not fire John Elway. You don't renew his contract and you "let him retire".

IF John can't handle it you let him retire early but you do not fire a John Elway. Like it or not he has brought much of the success we're spoiled by and he has earned loyalty through that.

I don't think you owe him letting him finish out his contract. I do think you owe him allowing him the option to 'retire'. There's usually a way to do things the right way.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Cugel - from one of your earlier posts - please post quotes, links, something which confirms what you stated

"Elway is widely expected not to want to return on another contract by people who claim to know him."

[Spiritguy]

update on the date and time of the game. Up to this point it's be TBD.

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. — The Broncos' Week 16 game against the Detroit Lions will kick off at 2:05 p.m. MT on Sunday, Dec. 22, the NFL announced Tuesday. https://www.denverbroncos.com/news/nfl-announces-kickoff-time-for-broncos-week-16-game-vs-lions

[VonDoom]

TV maps for this week:

https://506sports.com/nfl.php?yr=2019&wk=11

[Krugan]

The Broncos haven't had back to back to back losing seasons since the old AFL days of the 1970s. He has NOT earned endless loyalty. A SB win gets you a few seasons of failure. That ends with this season.

Elway is widely expected not to want to return on another contract by people who claim to know him.

That's the point. He doesn't want to rebuild because he's not going to be here to benefit from it. By the time the Broncos have rebuilt with a new young drafted QB Elway is expected to be moving on.


You cant honestly believe that. John Elway, doesnt want to be the best all the time everyday. Good grief...

[VonDoom]

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver 6m
Fangio on Lock: “He did OK.” Some scout team snaps yesterday, some with the regular offense today

Mike Klis @MikeKlis 6m
Fangio on Broncos attending Kaepernick workout: “I don’t know. You’d have to ask John.” #9sports

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver 5m
Bryce Callahan was “just OK, not great.” May not practice the rest of the week. Could go to IR

Troy Renck @TroyRenck 3m
#Broncos Fangio said expects Tim Patrick to play. James and Heuerman will do some drills today. But uncertain they will play #Denver7

Nicki Jhabvala @NickiJhabvala 4m
Vic Fangio asked if his priority is to win games or develop QBs: “Both.”

[Poet]

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver 6m
Fangio on Lock: “He did OK.” Some scout team snaps yesterday, some with the regular offense today

Mike Klis @MikeKlis 6m
Fangio on Broncos attending Kaepernick workout: “I don’t know. You’d have to ask John.” #9sports

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver 5m
Bryce Callahan was “just OK, not great.” May not practice the rest of the week. Could go to IR

Troy Renck @TroyRenck 3m
#Broncos Fangio said expects Tim Patrick to play. James and Heuerman will do some drills today. But uncertain they will play #Denver7

Nicki Jhabvala @NickiJhabvala 4m
Vic Fangio asked if his priority is to win games or develop QBs: “Both.”

He did ok - way to build up your young QB's confidence, coach.

We know John calls all the QB shots, don't worry.

Oh, we're going to be competitive and develop QB's? Did John give you that line?

Fangs is annoying.

[Northman]

The Kaepernick workout is hilarious.

[BroncoJoe]

The Kaepernick workout is ridiculous.

fify.

[underrated29]

He did ok - way to build up your young QB's confidence, coach.

We know John calls all the QB shots, don't worry.

Oh, we're going to be competitive and develop QB's? Did John give you that line?

Fangs is annoying.



If the kid cant handle being called ok then he does not have what it takes to be the QBotf for this team anyway.

[Northman]

If the kid cant handle being called ok then he does not have what it takes to be the QBotf for this team anyway.

Agreed.

But i guess in this day and age safe spaces are needed. Lol

[Poet]

If the kid cant handle being called ok then he does not have what it takes to be the QBotf for this team anyway.

It's not about him being able to handle it. It's about showing support for your young potential QBotF. Didn't Fangio give Flacco a lot of love earlier on in the year/offseason? So it's not like it's asking a ton.

[underrated29]

It's not about him being able to handle it. It's about showing support for your young potential QBotF. Didn't Fangio give Flacco a lot of love earlier on in the year/offseason? So it's not like it's asking a ton.

Who cares. The kid knows he has the support. They traded up for him. This is nit picky. I doubt anyone thought anything about it. If he was good to great theyd say it. He wasnt. I do not expect him to be. Not without playing and practicing for so long. He is what he is right now. A rook who hasnt played in forever. No need to blow sunshine and rainbows up his ass.

[Poet]

Who cares. The kid knows he has the support. They traded up for him. This is nit picky. I doubt anyone thought anything about it. If he was good to great theyd say it. He wasnt. I do not expect him to be. Not without playing and practicing for so long. He is what he is right now. A rook who hasnt played in forever. No need to blow sunshine and rainbows up his ass.

Yes, who cares if their boss has any belief in them? It's nit picky - I was told it was nit picky when our last coach did shit like this. I mean why show any meaningful support to a kid who hasn't practiced in awhile and is a rook...

Goodness.

[Poet]

Agreed.

But i guess in this day and age safe spaces are needed. Lol

Who said anything about a safe space?

[Northman]

Who said anything about a safe space?

It basically comes across like that. If Lock is any worth a damn as a QB he wont need to be coddled with "Man, he is fantastic" when he hasnt taken a snap in months. Im with UR, the comments made were much ado about nothing and highly doubt it affects Drew's psyche in any way. If it does, i dont want him as my QB.

[Poet]

It basically comes across like that. If Lock is any worth a damn as a QB he wont need to be coddled with "Man, he is fantastic" when he hasnt taken a snap in months. Im with UR, the comments made were much ado about nothing and highly doubt it affects Drew's psyche in any way. If it does, i dont want him as my QB.

I don't think it should. It's just annoying and seems counteractive to not big up a guy in that situation. Especially since the last coach we had did shit like that. I don't need Fangio to suck the guy's dick off, but it's not an either or thing. It's not about Lock, it's about Fangio.

[Northman]

I don't think it should. It's just annoying and seems counteractive to not big up a guy in that situation. Especially since the last coach we had did shit like that. I don't need Fangio to suck the guy's dick off, but it's not an either or thing. It's not about Lock, it's about Fangio.

Im just not sure what Fangio can really say since he and the other coaches simply have not seen Drew take any snaps in a while. The other possibility is maybe he doesnt want to create to much buzz with the fanbase knowing that we are all waiting for Drew to take the reigns to see what he has. So maybe Vic is being patient as to not create a "Tebowmania" type of scenario until Drew is truly ready to take the field. I would assume the sword cuts both ways, if Fangio comes out and says he looked polished and ready to go and we still went with Allen the fanbase and media would be questioning why he wasnt starting. Just a thought.

[Poet]

Im just not sure what Fangio can really say since he and the other coaches simply have not seen Drew take any snaps in a while. The other possibility is maybe he doesnt want to create to much buzz with the fanbase knowing that we are all waiting for Drew to take the reigns to see what he has. So maybe Vic is being patient as to not create a "Tebowmania" type of scenario until Drew is truly ready to take the field. I would assume the sword cuts both ways, if Fangio comes out and says he looked polished and ready to go and we still went with Allen the fanbase and media would be questioning why he wasnt starting. Just a thought.

I feel you. I guess if he couldn't speak to the issue he wouldn't have said it was okay. I don't need Fangio to talk about him like he's the next Marino.

[Krugan]

I feel you. I guess if he couldn't speak to the issue he wouldn't have said it was okay. I don't need Fangio to talk about him like he's the next Marino.

Not trying to to be an ass here, but its going to come off that way.

Do you think Lock needs to hear he is better than okay, or do you? Because im pretty sure this kid doesnt need daily affirmations, but im kinda getting the feeling you are in this instance.

[VonDoom]

https://twitter.com/nickijhabvala/status/1194742851982299139?s=21

[Cugel]

"Endless loyalty"

You clearly have reading comprehension problems. There's an end, he has a contract.

Most GMs do NOT get to finish their contracts any more than players do if they underperform their contracts.

5-11, followed by 6-10 followed by 5-11 again or worse is underperforming. I don't know why this is so complicated for you people. He's not doing his job.

It's not even debatable at this point. The Broncos have one of the worst records in the NFL over the last three years. And it's not getting any better. It's actively getting worse.

It used to be possible for fans to think "it's all Vance Joseph's fault! The team is not that bad, it's just really bad coaching." That excuse won't wash any more.

It's not on the coaching staff (although Fangio hasn't be great).

Mark Schlereth is right. This team lacks talent, they lack depth at almost every position; they make horrible player personnel moves (this part cannot be disputed); their FAs are busts; they can't find a franchise QB and worse refuse to commit to even seriously looking for one.

Roundup of Fangio's presser today: "There's just no sense of urgency at all in getting Lock on the field." -- Brandon Stokely.

And why is there "no sense of urgency"? Because the team "still thinks they can win now."

I didn't make up that indictment of Broncos management. It's all over the news, everywhere the Broncos are discussed. Nationally, the team is a laughing stock. NFL observers are privately shaking their heads at the dysfunction in Denver.

[Cugel]

Originally Posted by Northman View Post
Im just not sure what Fangio can really say since he and the other coaches simply have not seen Drew take any snaps in a while. The other possibility is maybe he doesnt want to create to much buzz with the fanbase knowing that we are all waiting for Drew to take the reigns to see what he has. So maybe Vic is being patient as to not create a "Tebowmania" type of scenario until Drew is truly ready to take the field. I would assume the sword cuts both ways, if Fangio comes out and says he looked polished and ready to go and we still went with Allen the fanbase and media would be questioning why he wasnt starting. Just a thought.

Of course this is correct. The question however, is "why, having drafted a QB in the second round, do you not prepare to play him in a lost season?"

And the only answer is "John Elway keeps refusing to admit the season is lost until they lose their 9th game."


Why are they afraid the fans will want Drew Lock to start? Because Elway still plans on starting Joe Flacco next season and doesn't want the fans to get their hopes of seeing Drew Lock up. If he showed any kind of progress over the course of a season, the fans would expect to see him start next year.

And Elway still intends on sticking with Joe Flacco. :tsk:

That's just plain stupid. The notion this team can do anything with Joe Flacco at QB if they just improve the OL or just improve the TEs and can somehow win like in 2015 is just flat stupid.

Anybody can look at NFL history. Once every 10 years a team wins a SB with just defense and a crap offense, with bad QB play.

The Bears did it in '85, the Ravens in 2000, the Bucs in 2002, and the 2015 Broncos. That's it. The Bears have been trying to replicate that success since 1985 with no success.

They even got back to the SB in 2005 with a pretty great defense, but lost because they had Rex Grossman and were going up against Peyton Manning.

That formula has never allowed ANY team in NFL history to repeat. It just doesn't work.

[Davii]

I can scroll with the BEST!

[Denver Native (Carol)]

#DENvsMIN: QB Drew Lock

Nov 13, 2019
Quarterback Drew Lock talks about how it felt “really good” to be back on the practice field, what he hopes to show the coaching staff to prove he’s ready to return from injured reserve and how he continues to trust the organization to make the best decision about the quarterback position.

https://www.denverbroncos.com/video/denvsmin-qb-drew-lock

#DENvsMIN: WR Courtland Sutton

Nov 13, 2019
Wide receiver Courtland Sutton talks about coming back to work after the bye week, describes Brandon Allen’s leadership on and off the field and discusses what Tim Patrick would bring to the Broncos offense if he returns on Sunday.

https://www.denverbroncos.com/video/denvsmin-wr-courtland-sutton

#DENvsMIN: RB Phillip Lindsay

Nov 13, 2019
Running back Phillip Lindsay previews Sunday’s game against the Vikings and talks about the Broncos’ attitude after their Week 9 win and the bye week.

https://www.denverbroncos.com/video/denvsmin-rb-phillip-lindsay

#DENvsMIN: QB Brandon Allen

Nov 13, 2019
Quarterback Brandon Allen talks about how he wants to improve during his second start on Sunday, what he expects from the Vikings’ defense and how OC Rich Scangarello has helped the Broncos’ young quarterbacks.

https://www.denverbroncos.com/video/denvsmin-qb-brandon-allen

[Elevation inc]

It's not about him being able to handle it. It's about showing support for your young potential QBotF. Didn't Fangio give Flacco a lot of love earlier on in the year/offseason? So it's not like it's asking a ton.

Fangio hasn't sugar coated anything for anyone since he has been here. He has been a straight shooter about players performances....he doesn't need to coddle Drew. Drew needs to be a man and earn his spot.....

[Elevation inc]

I don't think it should. It's just annoying and seems counteractive to not big up a guy in that situation. Especially since the last coach we had did shit like that. I don't need Fangio to suck the guy's dick off, but it's not an either or thing. It's not about Lock, it's about Fangio.

The last coach picked the wrong players at the wrong times...Fangio has been consistent....VJ never was.....VJ was Getting mad at players in the media calling them out then letting others perform like shit.....Fangio has been pretty consistent with everyone to include Von.....in his eyes every player on this team can do better....he says and acts as much....

[Poet]

The last coach picked the wrong players at the wrong times...Fangio has been consistent....VJ never was.....VJ was Getting mad at players in the media calling them out then letting others perform like shit.....Fangio has been pretty consistent with everyone to include Von.....in his eyes every player on this team can do better....he says and acts as much....

Eh. This is fair. Still wasn't optimal.

[Davii]

Eh. This is fair. Still wasn't optimal.

Might've been optimal. Complicated dynamic that without knowing Fangio, Lock, and their relationship personally can't be judged accurately or fairly.

[Poet]

Might've been optimal. Complicated dynamic that without knowing Fangio, Lock, and their relationship personally can't be judged accurately or fairly.

Might, but probably not.

[Davii]

Might, but probably not.

Again, you have nothing to base that on. Do you know Fangio, Lock, or have personal knowledge of their relationship?

Ever had a similar relationship?

You want Fangio to lie? Why?

If he was "ok" then he was "ok". Did you see practice? Any reason to believe what Fangio said was false? Any reason to believe Drew was "great" or "astounding"?

Maybe he was "hot trash" and Fangio WAS talking him up by saying "ok".

Or, more likely than Fangio being terrible in this regard, you're complaining without basis simply because you can.

[VonDoom]

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver 24m
Fangio: Heuerman and James were “just so-so” and are under 50 percent to play Sunday. Callahan won’t practice today and could go to IR to make room for Tim Patrick.

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver 22m
Fangio, on how much Minnesota’s offense changes without Adam Thielen: “None.” Said rookie and former CSU Ram Bisi Johnson has studied and learned from Thielen.

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver 22m
The offense had about 38 snaps yesterday, and Lock got 8-10 snaps, Fangio said.

Troy Renck @TroyRenck 20m
#Broncos Fangio encouraged by what he sees from @DrewLock23, albeit, in limited reps. #Denver7

Mike Klis @MikeKlis 1m
Von Miller on Drew Lock: “I just want to be here when he gets famous. He’s going to kill it.” #9sports

[underrated29]

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver 24m
Fangio: Heuerman and James were “just so-so” and are under 50 percent to play Sunday. Callahan won’t practice today and could go to IR to make room for Tim Patrick.

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver 22m
Fangio, on how much Minnesota’s offense changes without Adam Thielen: “None.” Said rookie and former CSU Ram Bisi Johnson has studied and learned from Thielen.

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver 22m
The offense had about 38 snaps yesterday, and Lock got 8-10 snaps, Fangio said.

Troy Renck @TroyRenck 20m
#Broncos Fangio encouraged by what he sees from @DrewLock23, albeit, in limited reps. #Denver7

Mike Klis @MikeKlis 1m
Von Miller on Drew Lock: “I just want to be here when he gets famous. He’s going to kill it.” #9sports




King, the last sentence was made for you!!!

[VonDoom]

https://twitter.com/nickijhabvala/status/1195070359818702850?s=21

[MOtorboat]

King, the last sentence was made for you!!!

Not to spoil the feels here, but Von Miller said Trevor Siemian was going to be just like Peyton Manning, Paxton Lynch was a “big-time quarterback,” said Case Keenum is “our guy,” and said Joe Flacco “looks like a Super Bowl MVP to me.”

Miller is Denver’s hype man, I’m not trusting him on quarterback evaluation.

[Northman]

Not to spoil the feels here, but Von Miller said Trevor Siemian was going to be just like Peyton Manning, Paxton Lynch was a “big-time quarterback,” said Case Keenum is “our guy,” and said Joe Flacco “looks like a Super Bowl MVP to me.”

Miller is Denver’s hype man, I’m not trusting him on quarterback evaluation.

Agreed. Its just lip service.

[Hawgdriver]

Did anyone else hear Fangio's earnest commentary and realize Lock will never be an NFL QB?

[Poet]

Did anyone else hear Fangio's earnest commentary and realize Lock will never be an NFL QB?

:shocked:

[Hawgdriver]

:shocked:

"I think he's been able to solve some of those issues, emotionally and mentally..."

When is the last time you've heard something similar about an NFL QB of note?

[Poet]

"I think he's been able to solve some of those issues, emotionally and mentally..."

When is the last time you've heard something similar about an NFL QB of note?

Derek Carr?

[Hawgdriver]

Derek Carr?

Yeah r'real?

[Poet]

Yeah r'real?

I believe Gruden had to come out and vouch for him after the crying rumors, or some shit like that? I don't know. There were comments made early on in Steve Young's career about being coachable and a better teammate or some phrasing like that. Cam was great for awhile, and Rivera was always talking about maturity and the like. Big Ben had a lot of shit early on in his career that caused his peers to talk about him, too.

****, man. I'm going to bed. :shocked:

[Hawgdriver]

That was supposed to be a f' not a r'...sweet dreams.

[Elevation inc]

Did anyone else hear Fangio's earnest commentary and realize Lock will never be an NFL QB?

I disagree, This is what developing a QB is all about....you don't kiss their ass in the NFL because they are some touted rookie. You evaluate honestly see where their strengths and flaws are and coach accordingly. I think Fangio now actually may really be what's best for Lock. I hear a coach now who thinks the lack of pressure and focus Lock was able to put into his craft, served him well and he sees progress he wanted to see.....I think were working on developing Lock the right way for a change. I actually am encouraged that were trying to develop the kid for a change.....we may actually groom a QBOTF for once......

[Elevation inc]

"I think he's been able to solve some of those issues, emotionally and mentally..."

When is the last time you've heard something similar about an NFL QB of note?

Just this year some of those same things were being mentioned about Mayfield and Darnold.....and they are in year 2 after solid rookie seasons.....doesn't really mean much....If Lock has solved them and Fangio feels as much, then were already ahead of the Lynch ordeal for example because he didn't solve them, and that was alluded to much of his first couple years here by both staffs....

[Elevation inc]

Not to spoil the feels here, but Von Miller said Trevor Siemian was going to be just like Peyton Manning, Paxton Lynch was a “big-time quarterback,” said Case Keenum is “our guy,” and said Joe Flacco “looks like a Super Bowl MVP to me.”

Miller is Denver’s hype man, I’m not trusting him on quarterback evaluation.

Von is a good team player and solider.....he says the right things as he should as the leader of this team....But your correct if you want accurate picture of where Lock is everyone should listen to Fangio and the fact Lock needs to develop and keep honing his craft back on the practice field....seems like the mental game is on track now, and he has to get back into physical game shape and keep honing his skills.....

[Cugel]

Mike Klis @MikeKlis 1m
Von Miller on Drew Lock: “I just want to be here when he gets famous. He’s going to kill it.” #9sports

:eek: :eek: You realize what Von is saying?


Von Miller Statement In Plain Language: "Uh, folks, Brandon Allen ain't gonna be starting for long because Lock is better than him. Because if Allen were better than Lock, Lock couldn't become famous next this season or next."

"Plus, the organization invested a 2nd round pick in Lock and Allen is only a 6th rounder, so whatever Fangio might think of the two he's really going to have some explaining to do to John Elway if he tries to stick with Allen instead of putting Lock in -- Elway's 2nd round pick whom they reportedly really liked back when they drafted him.

"Plus, I could totally be gone next year because my production in this Fangio defense sucks monkey balls. Really big ones. That doesn't mean I suck suddenly, it means that I'm not fitting in or I'm not producing at the level that meets expectations for whatever reason.

So, there's no point paying me $23m next year if I'm going to get 6 or maybe 8 sacks a year. I hope I'm wrong when I say that I hope I'm still around next season but seriously I could be traded this off-season. I will probably go somewhere and suddenly whatever team I go to I have an impact like Kalil Mack did in going to Chicago."

So, why again are we starting Brandon Allen when even Von can see Lock is better? Or more inevitable?

I hope I'm wrong about Von indicating he could be traded. But, why else would he say "I hope I'm still around" when Lock gets famous? Why would he not be around next year (when presumably Lock is going to 'get famous' in Von's opinion.) I mean everybody assumes Lock is going to get the chance to start (probably both later this year and next year).

Von's still under contract next year so the only reason he wouldn't be here is if they traded him. So, is he expecting to be traded?

[Krugan]

:eek: :eek: You realize what Von is saying?



So, why again are we starting Brandon Allen when even Von can see Lock is better? Or more inevitable?

I hope I'm wrong about Von indicating he could be traded. But, why else would he say "I hope I'm still around" when Lock gets famous? Why would he not be around next year (when presumably Lock is going to 'get famous' in Von's opinion.) I mean everybody assumes Lock is going to get the chance to start (probably both later this year and next year).

Von's still under contract next year so the only reason he wouldn't be here is if they traded him. So, is he expecting to be traded?

They arent starting Lock right now, because he hasnt practiced in 3 months.

Its not complicated.

[CoachChaz]

:eek: :eek: You realize what Von is saying?



So, why again are we starting Brandon Allen when even Von can see Lock is better? Or more inevitable?

I hope I'm wrong about Von indicating he could be traded. But, why else would he say "I hope I'm still around" when Lock gets famous? Why would he not be around next year (when presumably Lock is going to 'get famous' in Von's opinion.) I mean everybody assumes Lock is going to get the chance to start (probably both later this year and next year).

Von's still under contract next year so the only reason he wouldn't be here is if they traded him. So, is he expecting to be traded?

Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, we are in rebuild mode and the odds of us being a serious playoff contender again before Von is washed up are not in our favor. So, why not use him as a chip to get draft capital and accelerate the process a bit. We just have way too many holes to fix.

That said...all the draft capital in the world is useless until we have someone in place that can make solid draft decisions. So...a bit of a Catch 22

[Cugel]

I believe Gruden had to come out and vouch for him after the crying rumors, or some shit like that? I don't know. There were comments made early on in Steve Young's career about being coachable and a better teammate or some phrasing like that. Cam was great for awhile, and Rivera was always talking about maturity and the like. Big Ben had a lot of shit early on in his career that caused his peers to talk about him, too.

****, man. I'm going to bed. :shocked:

You didn't even scratch the surface! What about Ben Roethlisberger who fed some drunk chick even more drinks until she was totally hammered and then followed her into the women's room where she went to get away from him, and either had consensual sex with her or perhaps rape.

He screwed up so badly over that little incident that he had to totally change his life -- he had to grow up essentially. And this was after he's already played in 2 Super Bowls. Now he's happily married with family (I think). But, you don't see such off field problems out of him any more.

Although some ex-Steelers have criticized him as not a great teammate, a lot of that criticism can be traced back to Antonio Brown so we can discount most of it.

I don't think that saying Drew Lock lacks a certain degree of emotional maturity coming into the league is not surprising. Not everybody is suddenly Peyton Manning.

I heard Nick Ferguson (former Broncos S) on the radio talking about Manning. He said it was like Manning was the star pupil who sat at the front of the class and always had the answer to every question when they were doing the white board.

He answered every question himself while the coaches and players listened.

Lock isn't like that. He comes in and has to learn what an NFL culture really is. The amount of work and dedication it takes is way off the charts.

So, sitting back and having to study and sit not play due to injury makes Lock start to realize what Lynch never did -- this job isn't a given. You have to work your butt off learning the system and how to play QB in this league to have a chance to start. They're not going to just hand it to you on a silver platter.

And Fangio thinks that is good for Lock. He could be right. It could provide some motivation. It might well have been what was best for Lock in the long term.

Sam Darnold is a much better prospect than Drew Lock, but throwing Darnold into the game with a horrible Jets team has apparently shattered his confidence and screwed up his development. The Jets are well into the process of ruining him.

So, maybe this delay is what is best for Lock. It's hard to argue it's what is best for the organization though.

They know Brandon Allen is just a scrub. All 6th and 7th round QBs not named Tom Brady are scrubs. Are there even any exceptions starting in the NFL? I don't think so.

[VonDoom]

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver 6m
Vic Fangio: Heuerman and James are doubtful. Hamilton questionable. Callahan going to IR

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver 6m
Bryce Callahan’s season will officially end when he goes to IR. Tim Patrick will take his place on the 53-man roster, per Vic Fangio.

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver 5m
Fangio: The screw put in Bryce Callahan’s foot got bent. Caused discomfort and pain, at too high a level to play. Will have further surgery. “This time we need to make sure the screw isn’t bent — go to a better hardware store,” Fangio said.

Andrew Mason @MaseDenver 5m
Fangio said he doesn’t know when the screw got bent. The surgery he will have to put a new screw in should have him ready to go for next season, Fangio said.

[Shazam!]

I believe Gruden had to come out and vouch for him after the crying rumors, or some shit like that? I don't know. There were comments made early on in Steve Young's career about being coachable and a better teammate or some phrasing like that. Cam was great for awhile, and Rivera was always talking about maturity and the like. Big Ben had a lot of shit early on in his career that caused his peers to talk about him, too.

****, man. I'm going to bed. :shocked:

You didn't even scratch the surface! What about Ben Roethlisberger who fed some drunk chick even more drinks until she was totally hammered and then followed her into the women's room where she went to get away from him, and either had consensual sex with her or perhaps rape.

He screwed up so badly over that little incident that he had to totally change his life -- he had to grow up essentially. And this was after he's already played in 2 Super Bowls. Now he's happily married with family (I think). But, you don't see such off field problems out of him any more.

Although some ex-Steelers have criticized him as not a great teammate, a lot of that criticism can be traced back to Antonio Brown so we can discount most of it.

I don't think that saying Drew Lock lacks a certain degree of emotional maturity coming into the league is not surprising. Not everybody is suddenly Peyton Manning.

I heard Nick Ferguson (former Broncos S) on the radio talking about Manning. He said it was like Manning was the star pupil who sat at the front of the class and always had the answer to every question when they were doing the white board.

He answered every question himself while the coaches and players listened.

Lock isn't like that. He comes in and has to learn what an NFL culture really is. The amount of work and dedication it takes is way off the charts.

So, sitting back and having to study and sit not play due to injury makes Lock start to realize what Lynch never did -- this job isn't a given. You have to work your butt off learning the system and how to play QB in this league to have a chance to start. They're not going to just hand it to you on a silver platter.

And Fangio thinks that is good for Lock. He could be right. It could provide some motivation. It might well have been what was best for Lock in the long term.

Sam Darnold is a much better prospect than Drew Lock, but throwing Darnold into the game with a horrible Jets team has apparently shattered his confidence and screwed up his development. The Jets are well into the process of ruining him.

So, maybe this delay is what is best for Lock. It's hard to argue it's what is best for the organization though.

They know Brandon Allen is just a scrub. All 6th and 7th round QBs not named Tom Brady are scrubs. Are there even any exceptions starting in the NFL? I don't think so.

Not sure Darnold>Lock is a very valid argument. Lock was a an allegedly 1st round talent too and he has a much larger sample size 2 years to 4. There were many questions about Darnold coming out they seem to have bled into his time with the NYJ.

I don't think skill wise there's a huge chasm between Lock and Darnold, all im saying.

[Krugan]

Sigh, the screw isnt the only thing getting bent in this deal!

[Slick]

What a waste both Callahan and James were. Pencilled in as big FA upgrades in the offseason. Bryce hasn’t even played a snap and James maybe 20? Good grief.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Broncos’ Derek Wolfe proving there’s still plenty left in the tank at “old” age of 29

https://www.denverpost.com/2019/11/14/broncos-defensive-end-derek-wolfe-career-year/

[Hawgdriver]

What a waste both Callahan and James were. Pencilled in as big FA upgrades in the offseason. Bryce hasn’t even played a snap and James maybe 20? Good grief.

Yeah. Sua... There's a certain trend, quality of the organization, that one can infer from things.

[Poet]

Yeah. Sua... There's a certain trend, quality of the organization, that one can infer from things.

What would your inference be?

[Hawgdriver]

What would your inference be?

Dysfunction

[Poet]

Dysfunction

Big hugs.

[Hawgdriver]

Big hugs.

It would be cool to hear some behind the curtain stories from players and staff in the org right now. Get them voice-modulated, face redacted, serious journalistic tell-all.

[Poet]

It would be cool to hear some behind the curtain stories from players and staff in the org right now. Get them voice-modulated, face redacted, serious journalistic tell-all.

Plot twist - our kickers bully everyone.

[Hawgdriver]

Plot twist - our kickers bully everyone.

And Elway is totally crushing it, but Beth and Brittany's constant slap fite at the training facility has everyone all askew.

This could be the next Spinal Tap.

TwJExYWhRSU

[GEM]

How the fook did they not just send Callahan for surgery friggen months ago? Wtf is going on in dove valley?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

How the fook did they not just send Callahan for surgery friggen months ago? Wtf is going on in dove valley?

Apparently he had surgery last off season, and hurt the foot again in preseason.


Coach Vic Fangio said after practice Friday that Callahan will be placed on injured reserve and will need foot surgery to replace a bent screw that was initially installed last December.

https://www.denverpost.com/2019/11/15/broncos-cb-bryce-callahan-headed-to-surgery/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+dp-sports-broncos+%28Denver+Post%3A+Sports%3A+Broncos%29

[GEM]

Apparently he had surgery last off season, and hurt the foot again in preseason.



https://www.denverpost.com/2019/11/15/broncos-cb-bryce-callahan-headed-to-surgery/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+dp-sports-broncos+%28Denver+Post%3A+Sports%3A+Broncos%29

They've known about the bent screw since then... bent screws don't heal, they don't disappear. They should have done the surgery 2 months ago and had him well into
physical therapy. Just another boneheaded questionable move by this team. One of a growing list of questionable moves.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

This explains more


Doctors inserted a screw in Callahan's foot to promote healing last December. However, when he was stepped on during a stadium practice on July 20, Callahan never recovered as the screw broke. Taking it out and inserting a new one would have likely ended his season in August, so the Broncos tried to exhaust all options.

Callahan told Denver7 he visited multiple specialists -- "I tried everything," he said -- to find a solution. In the end, the treatments failed to ease the pain. As such, he landed on the season-ending injured reserve on Friday after never playing a snap in the preseason or regular season. He will have surgery soon.

https://www.thedenverchannel.com/sports/broncos/broncos-place-bryce-callahan-on-season-ending-injured-reserve

[Poet]

That makes me feel better a little bit. Thanks Carol.

[Nomad]

Go Broncos! Beat the Vikings!

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Lindsay took the pregame free throw on Thursday night at the Denver Nuggets game, and his teammates reacted to him coming this close to making it.

The Broncos weren’t the only NFL players at the game, though! With the Chargers in Colorado Springs for the week to prepare at elevation ahead of their Nov. 18 game in Mexico City, a few of their players were able to meet up with some of their favorite rivals. Lindsay and Von Miller hung out with Melvin Ingram, Travis Benjamin and former Bronco Jeff Holland before watching the Nuggets defeat the Brooklyn Nets.

rest, plus video and pictures - https://www.denverbroncos.com/news/thesqueeze/the-squeeze-phillip-lindsay-shoots-and-almost-scores

[GEM]

Doesn't make me feel better at all, broken and bent screws don't fix themselves over time. If you want him long term, get it fixed early and wait for him to be healthy. Now he's 2.5 months behind where he could have been. It wasn't going to get better. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out a broken screw has to come out.

[Hawgdriver]

Doesn't make me feel better at all, broken and bent screws don't fix themselves over time. If you want him long term, get it fixed early and wait for him to be healthy. Now he's 2.5 months behind where he could have been. It wasn't going to get better. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out a broken screw has to come out.

Yeah, it's super weird. I'll go benefit of doubt to Broncos for now...but super odd.

[turftoad]

Ha.... I will be attending this game!,

[turftoad]

Ha.... I will be attending this game!,

I just hope it’s close!

[MNPatsFan]

Ha.... I will be attending this game!,Tuft, are you in MN and attending the game tomorrow?

[turftoad]

Tuft, are you in MN and attending the game tomorrow?

Yes I am buddy!

[dogfish]

"I think he's been able to solve some of those issues, emotionally and mentally..."

When is the last time you've heard something similar about an NFL QB of note?

it beats touting his tallness. . .




What a waste both Callahan and James were. Pencilled in as big FA upgrades in the offseason. Bryce hasn’t even played a snap and James maybe 20? Good grief.

ain't that the damn truth. . .

[dogfish]

Ha.... I will be attending this game!,

have a beer for me. . .

[slim]

I just hope it’s close!

It won't be. Broncos roll for the first time this year!!!!

[MNPatsFan]

Yes I am buddy!Sorry, I didn't see this in time to inquire whether you might be able to meet for coffee before heading to the game yesterday. Would have been nice to be able to put a face and personality to "tuftroad". Hope you had a great time even though the Broncos unfortunately lost!:salute: