View Full Version : If Brandon Allen Makes This Looks So Easy...
OrangeHoof
11-04-2019, 09:05 AM
...why did we stick with Fucco for so long?
Was it the Browns' defense? I thought Cleveland's D was above average.
Even without Sanders, the offense had a decent day. Sutton was good. Lindsey was good. Fant was terrific.
Maybe this is "the year of the Allen".
I think we should dump Fucco at the end of the year and go with Allen and Lock.
BroncoWave
11-04-2019, 09:12 AM
I think Fangio being a first time head coach didn't want to make waves in benching Elway's hand picked guy, especially with no other player on the roster who had ever thrown a pass in the NFL. It felt like his hands were kinda tied. Flacco getting hurt definitely saved him from having to make that decision.
wayninja
11-04-2019, 10:15 AM
It's almost as if Flacco isn't very good.
http://giphygifs.s3.amazonaws.com/media/CH0fzClj8QCDS/giphy.gif
Northman
11-04-2019, 10:38 AM
...why did we stick with Fucco for so long?
Was it the Browns' defense? I thought Cleveland's D was above average.
Even without Sanders, the offense had a decent day. Sutton was good. Lindsey was good. Fant was terrific.
Maybe this is "the year of the Allen".
I think we should dump Fucco at the end of the year and go with Allen and Lock.
Lmao
Easy? Nah man. People are reading far too much into yesterday.
1) Allen's throw to Sutton was WAY off if not for the spectacular catch by Sutton. If that is picked, people would be losing their shit.
2) The Browns are not anywhere near what the expectations are and only further proves having a bunch of big names doesnt guarantee success. The Raiders are doing quite fine without Antonio Brown being there.
3) Congrats to Fant for finally catching a pass and the watching Brown defenders blow tackles like they did all day yesterday. I guess its a good thing that Noah finally stepped up after half a season.
4) Lindsay finally had one of his better games of the year yesterday. Prior to that he has had only 2 games where he was remotely close to 100 yds.
5) The oline still has a ton of problems and on one of Allen's sacks he actually started to fall into a fetal position before the defenders even got there. But, you could chalk that up to his first game.
6) Defensively we finally closed out a game by stopping them on 4th down twice.
7) After being called out by the former QB its only expected that Scags had to try something different and thus got a little more creative in his playcalling especially with the wildcat call.
I think people need to be careful about reading to much into the win yesterday. If not for the Browns being totally inept they may have not won the game.
dogfish
11-04-2019, 11:07 AM
it wasn't easy. . . but having a QB with mobility was a huge plus-- that's the kind of player this offense is designed around. . . a statue like flacco behind a bad O-line was a recipe for disaster. . . i just hope it's a lesson learned for elway and fangio going forward. . . no more pocket sloths!
Northman
11-04-2019, 11:09 AM
it wasn't easy. . . but having a QB with mobility was a huge plus-- that's the kind of player this offense is designed around. . . a statue like flacco behind a bad O-line was a recipe for disaster. . . i just hope it's a lesson learned for elway and fangio going forward. . . no more pocket sloths!
Then Elway must be approaching things the wrong way which means he is probably a bigger problem than we even know. He was all in with Flacco and it costed us half a season.
wayninja
11-04-2019, 11:17 AM
Then Elway must be approaching things the wrong way which means he is probably a bigger problem than we even know. He was all in with Flacco and it costed us half a season.
Don't sell him short, it cost us the full season.
Valar Morghulis
11-04-2019, 11:45 AM
Allen is a bum who had a mediocre day
That’s great for him, and the play calling was kind to him, but he only completed 12 passes.
He will be pulled by the middle of the third quarter next time he plays.
NostraVal says it will be so, and it will be so.
Northman
11-04-2019, 11:48 AM
Allen is a bum who had a mediocre day
That’s great for him, and the play calling was kind to him, but he only completed 12 passes.
He will be pulled by the middle of the third quarter next time he plays.
NostraVal says it will be so, and it will be so.
Im not sure he will be pulled as there is no real other option there right now but yea, he got lucky that we played the Browns yesterday.
Northman
11-04-2019, 11:53 AM
We have the Vikings, Bills, Chargers, Texans, and Chiefs next. I think those games will be a lot more accurate about where we are with the rest of the team post Flacco.
underrated29
11-04-2019, 11:59 AM
Lmao
Easy? Nah man. People are reading far too much into yesterday.
1) Allen's throw to Sutton was WAY off if not for the spectacular catch by Sutton. If that is picked, people would be losing their shit.
2) The Browns are not anywhere near what the expectations are and only further proves having a bunch of big names doesnt guarantee success. The Raiders are doing quite fine without Antonio Brown being there.
3) Congrats to Fant for finally catching a pass and the watching Brown defenders blow tackles like they did all day yesterday. I guess its a good thing that Noah finally stepped up after half a season.
4) Lindsay finally had one of his better games of the year yesterday. Prior to that he has had only 2 games where he was remotely close to 100 yds.
5) The oline still has a ton of problems and on one of Allen's sacks he actually started to fall into a fetal position before the defenders even got there. But, you could chalk that up to his first game.
6) Defensively we finally closed out a game by stopping them on 4th down twice.
7) After being called out by the former QB its only expected that Scags had to try something different and thus got a little more creative in his playcalling especially with the wildcat call.
I think people need to be careful about reading to much into the win yesterday. If not for the Browns being totally inept they may have not won the game.
Allen is still not very good. However, and this is not to debate your post as much as offer my thoughts in agreement and against some of it, or at least explain what I saw which may or may not support your stance.
1. The thing with the pass to sutton was the fact that Allen actually threw it! Sutton was not open when Allen let the ball fly. It was not a very good pass. However, Sutton is the 80/20 guy. (holy shit the catch!!! He left his feet at like the 3 yard line and landed with the ball 5 yards into the endzone WTFFFFF- WOW!!!) Joe would not throw that pass, the few times he does he does not allow sutton to try and come down with it. He throws it into the second row of the stands.
So while the pass was not on target like it should be, he threw the pass, which is what our offense has lacked. the QB actaully throwing the pass and letting the guy make a play!
2. The browns didnt really blow tackels as much as fant let his sack hang low for a play and kicked some ass! He dropped the S right away. Then with his speed and size he shook off the rest and they couldnt catch him. That was not about the browns blowing it. That was about Fant blowing them out.
3. We are as inept as the browns except we do not have the talent like they do across the board (1st rd pick overall QB, odell high first rd, landry (1st or did he go 2nd rd), Njoku 1st rd, Chubb was a 1st rd talent)....We had a 6th rd qb, udfa rb, 2nd rd wr, 5th rd wr, 1st rd te.......And we did ok. I still do not think Allen will be as good as he looked there, but I think aside from the best defenses out there we likely would have had a similar result......Just wish we could get lock out there. Allen will likely suck ass big time against the vikings in 2 weeks. Then he will also be owned by whomever we play next. Which is perfect because that will be locks time to shine and people wont call for BA when lock sucks for a bit while he learns.
dogfish
11-04-2019, 11:59 AM
Then Elway must be approaching things the wrong way which means he is probably a bigger problem than we even know. He was all in with Flacco and it costed us half a season.
Don't sell him short, it cost us the full season.
this was always going to be a transition year. . . all new coaches plus a mediocre roster rarely ever adds up to a playoff team. . . we were never winning 10-12 games this year, not with any of the options we had available at QB. . . do i wish they'd played it different, and started lock sooner? yea, sure. . . i'm okay with where we're at now, though-- all i really want this year is to see progress, and the development of young players. . . let vic and skanks get their feet under them, so we can come out of the gate strong next year. . . the reps we're getting for guys like bausby and harris, purcell, johnson, reed, hollins, etc are invaluable. . . as long as they don't try foisting flacco's sorry ass off on us next year, i won't call this a lost season. . . it's a building season, and it was necessary, however painful it is to watch. . .
Denver Native (Carol)
11-04-2019, 12:04 PM
The Denver Broncos entered Week 9's home tilt vs. the Cleveland Browns in a precarious position. Quarterback Brandon Allen would make his first NFL start and play his first snap in a regular-season game, with the reeling Broncos trying to recover from a 2-6 start.
It was hard to predict what to expect.
What unfolded, however, was eye-opening and perhaps answered once and for all the question as to what was really holding back the Broncos' offense in the first half of the season — the play-calling or the QB play? The Broncos rolled over the Browns 24-19, leading from the first quarter and never looking back.
Allen went 12-of-20 (60%) for 193 yards and two touchdowns. He finished with a QB rating of 125.6 in his first-ever NFL game.
rest - https://www.si.com/nfl/broncos/news/denver-broncos-rich-scangarello-answers-the-bell-in-week-9-with-brandon-allen-under-center/
Northman
11-04-2019, 12:06 PM
So while the pass was not on target like it should be, he threw the pass, which is what our offense has lacked. the QB actaully throwing the pass and letting the guy make a play!
Some great points as always but my issue with this is that a week or so ago Flacco thew a pass that was a little behind the receiver. YET, it hit the receiver in both his hands but the receiver let it go through his hands for a INT. Some on the board put Flacco on full blast because the pass was not perfect. Now, im with you in that we have receivers that need to step up and make plays (much like Sutton did) when the opportunities arise. But if we are going to condemn one QB for inaccurate throws than we need to be consistent and fair across the board with our criticisms. The one thing that will help Allen more is that he is younger and more mobile than Joe, no question about it. Joe also had a huge tendency to hold onto the ball to long and for a guy who has been in the league as long as he has those are dumb mistakes he should not be making.
The important thing for me though going forward with this team basically comes down to this:
1. How does Brandon take command of the offense and how is his leadership.
2. How does the rest of the team respond, do they have faith in Allen to step their game like yesterday defensively.
3. Will Scags continue to move in more creative direction with his playcalling.
Northman
11-04-2019, 12:09 PM
this was always going to be a transition year. . . all new coaches plus a mediocre roster rarely ever adds up to a playoff team. . . we were never winning 10-12 games this year, not with any of the options we had available at QB. . . do i wish they'd played it different, and started lock sooner? yea, sure. . . i'm okay with where we're at now, though-- all i really want this year is to see progress, and the development of young players. . . let vic and skanks get their feet under them, so we can come out of the gate strong next year. . . the reps we're getting for guys like bausby and harris, purcell, johnson, reed, hollins, etc are invaluable. . . as long as they don't try foisting flacco's sorry ass off on us next year, i won't call this a lost season. . . it's a building season, and it was necessary, however painful it is to watch. . .
Actually, my biggest issue is trading for Joe in the first place. i can live with a rebuild so as long as that is what you are going to do. But, when John got Flacco he did little else to surround him with veteran players to match the mantra that Elway has been peddling about competing for championships. Its the thing i was talking about the other day about John not committing to one thing or another and trying to ride the fence without putting all the pieces in place to do so.
Northman
11-04-2019, 12:10 PM
A 24-19 win is not "rolling" over the opponent. Lol
dogfish
11-04-2019, 12:14 PM
Actually, my biggest issue is trading for Joe in the first place. i can live with a rebuild so as long as that is what you are going to do. But, when John got Flacco he did little else to surround him with veteran players to match the mantra that Elway has been peddling about competing for championships. Its the thing i was talking about the other day about John not committing to one thing or another and trying to ride the fence without putting all the pieces in place to do so.
no doubt. . . i'm just crossing my fingers that he was paying attention yesterday, and quits with that bullshit already. . . IF he will commit to building around a young QB-- and can find an adequate left tackle-- then i'm cautiously optimistic about our direction going forward. . .
Northman
11-04-2019, 12:16 PM
This guy who responded to the article Carol posted really hit it on the head.
Erick Trickel
It wasn't just the QB or the play-calling. It was both. Had a player-caller who didn't let the QB make adjustments, called a game to the strengths of what he did have as good play-callers do, went away from plays that worked, got too cute a lot, and called designed dump-offs on 3rd down.Meanwhile, the QB lacked the mobility to fully run the offense, held the ball and missed open receivers.
It was a bad match from the start between the two and destined to fail. Good to see that Scangarello really made some adjustments with how he called the game. Denver needed that. If he didn't improve, then there had to be a serious discussion about firing him and Denver needed offensive stability.
underrated29
11-04-2019, 12:32 PM
Yep Flacco holds the ball waaaaaaay too long. He is too imobile. He does not give his WR a chance. We all knew he sucks and why, but it was cool to see a QB who did do those things and how much better we looked. Depsite being a 6th rd QB who really, honestly, does kinda suck.
So if we can get lock in (who hopefully doesnt kinda suck) and he does those few things that Allen did that Flacco did not....We may finally be on our way.
MOtorboat
11-04-2019, 02:27 PM
I’m all in on the Jarrett Allen train!
Valar Morghulis
11-04-2019, 02:33 PM
I’m all in on the Jarrett Allen train!
I like Keith better
MOtorboat
11-04-2019, 02:36 PM
I like Keith better
Who is Keith?
Valar Morghulis
11-04-2019, 02:39 PM
Who is Keith?
Lily’s dad
I thought we’re just getting on the train of other famous people with the surname Allen
Perhaps you just want Jarrett to run through you like a train?
MOtorboat
11-04-2019, 02:52 PM
Lily’s dad
I thought we’re just getting on the train of other famous people with the surname Allen
Perhaps you just want Jarrett to run through you like a train?
Jarrett is our quarterback, sir.
Valar Morghulis
11-04-2019, 02:53 PM
I thought he was a basketball player and quarterback was called Brandon
MOtorboat
11-04-2019, 02:54 PM
I thought he was a basketball player and quarterback was called Brandon
I don’t know what you’re talking about.
Valar Morghulis
11-04-2019, 02:56 PM
I don’t know what you’re talking about.
I am gonna teach you a lesson in manners young man
MOtorboat
11-04-2019, 03:05 PM
I am gonna teach you a lesson in manners young man
I think I am older than you.
The Glue Factory
11-04-2019, 03:28 PM
A 24-19 win is not "rolling" over the opponent. Lol
Ordinarily I'd agree with you, but upon further review...
Scoring first and never trailing in the game is the 2019 Broncos equivalent of rolling an opponent.
Cugel
11-04-2019, 06:58 PM
...why did we stick with Fucco for so long?
Was it the Browns' defense? I thought Cleveland's D was above average.
Even without Sanders, the offense had a decent day. Sutton was good. Lindsey was good. Fant was terrific.
Maybe this is "the year of the Allen".
I think we should dump Fucco at the end of the year and go with Allen and Lock.
Welcome to the "Official Dump Flacco Bandwagon!" :wave:
It used to be quite lonely on the wagon, but now it's crowded as hell! :geezer:
Cugel
11-04-2019, 07:09 PM
t wasn't just the QB or the play-calling. It was both. Had a player-caller who didn't let the QB make adjustments, called a game to the strengths of what he did have as good play-callers do, went away from plays that worked, got too cute a lot, and called designed dump-offs on 3rd down.Meanwhile, the QB lacked the mobility to fully run the offense, held the ball and missed open receivers.
It was a bad match from the start between the two and destined to fail. Good to see that Scangarello really made some adjustments with how he called the game. Denver needed that. If he didn't improve, then there had to be a serious discussion about firing him and Denver needed offensive stability.
I'm happy if the coaches can have some success -- enough so that Elway can keep Fangio as the HC and keep the assistants in place.
You just can't have success with a constant carousel of coaching changes every season. And the Broncos have gone through three complete coaching staffs plus each head coach had usually 2 assistants or more as some assistants were replaced before the head coach was fired (Fox, Kubiak, Vance Joseph).
So, regardless of the futility of the Flacco era, we need to keep Fangio and his assistants and have them be successful. There has to be someone in charge for the long term so that they can start identifying the kind of players they need to win, and start finding players like that.
No more coaching changes for a while. :coffee:
Cugel
11-04-2019, 07:12 PM
We got rid of Vance Joseph! Let's rest on our laurels for a bit. Give Fangio the benefit of the doubt. He hasn't had a QB or a lot of help at the WR or TE positions, and his OL is beyond horrible -- not his fault, Elway's fault.
I just hope that a 3-13 season doesn't make them think of getting rid of Fangio.
Oh god, please get rid of the old man.
Valar Morghulis
11-05-2019, 12:50 AM
I think I am older than you.
Time to role play....... you’ll enjoy it
MOtorboat
11-05-2019, 12:53 AM
Time to role play....... you’ll enjoy it
Do you want “cheap hooker” or “classy escort?”
Valar Morghulis
11-05-2019, 01:01 AM
Do you want “cheap hooker” or “classy escort?”
We will agree the finer details after a few qualudes
Val doesn't pay them to have sex. He pays them to leave...this mortal coil.
Elevation inc
11-05-2019, 03:10 AM
Yep Flacco holds the ball waaaaaaay too long. He is too imobile. He does not give his WR a chance. We all knew he sucks and why, but it was cool to see a QB who did do those things and how much better we looked. Depsite being a 6th rd QB who really, honestly, does kinda suck.
So if we can get lock in (who hopefully doesnt kinda suck) and he does those few things that Allen did that Flacco did not....We may finally be on our way.
No this isn't true :lol: only a few of us truly knew....:beer:
Elevation inc
11-05-2019, 03:11 AM
Welcome to the "Official Dump Flacco Bandwagon!" :wave:
It used to be quite lonely on the wagon, but now it's crowded as hell! :geezer:
Your not wrong. For the record I like having people on this bandwagon its no longer as lonely as it used to be....
Simple Jaded
11-05-2019, 05:38 AM
Hate to be the dick (Again) but y’all are getting way ahead of yourselves with getting rid of Flacco, he’s still the odds on favorite to start the ‘20 season ... and it’s not even much of a race at this point.
Might wanna wait til the season is over before you crown another scrub QB.
Besides, we still have to see what we got in Case Rypien.
Elevation inc
11-05-2019, 07:40 AM
Hate to be the dick (Again) but y’all are getting way ahead of yourselves with getting rid of Flacco, he’s still the odds on favorite to start the ‘20 season ... and it’s not even much of a race at this point.
Might wanna wait til the season is over before you crown another scrub QB.
Besides, we still have to see what we got in Case Rypien.
Rypien is a PS player at best, and is only on our 53 at the moment by luck. Allen didn't wow anyone yesterday he just played within the confines of how this offense should run, and had mobility to make some key plays. Vikings game will be a true test. Cant wait till Flacco is gone he was a NFL starter till about 2014, then he began to suck....and still showed he sucks. Nothing anyone has seen all year has proven that he should be the guy to run this offense. He didn't even know how to throw to his best WR's on the team at the time in Sanders and Sutton when they were wide open in the endzone and he saw it. He got scared and threw the ball 3 times out the back of the end zone 40 yds. cause he is a little bitch of a QB who also quit in the KC game on his team.
He is a whiny little Malcontent QB, who isn't very good anymore and has become injury prone to boot....
But you my guy jaded and on this topic we may just have to agree to disagree :lol:
Simple Jaded
11-05-2019, 07:42 AM
Rypien is a PS player at best, and is only on our 53 at the moment by luck. Allen didn't wow anyone yesterday he just played within the confines of how this offense should run, and had mobility to make some key plays. Vikings game will be a true test. Cant wait till Flacco is gone he was a NFL starter till about 2014, then he began to suck....and still showed he sucks. Nothing anyone has seen all year has proven that he should be the guy to run this offense. He didn't even know how to throw to his best WR's on the team at the time in Sanders and Sutton when they were wide open in the endzone and he saw it. He got scared and threw the ball 3 times out the back of the end zone 40 yds. cause he is a little bitch of a QB who also quit in the KC game on his team.
He is a whiny little Malcontent QB, who isn't very good anymore and has become injury prone to boot....
But you my guy jaded and on this topic we may just have to agree to disagree :lol:
You agree with me on everything but Flacco, **** Rypien.
OrangeHoof
11-06-2019, 11:56 PM
I'm interested in dumping Fucco's contract as much as Fucco himself. Why pay this dude Manning money for less than half of Manning production?
Simple Jaded
11-07-2019, 08:10 AM
I'm interested in dumping Fucco's contract as much as Fucco himself. Why pay this dude Manning money for less than half of Manning production?
This illustrates just how ****** up the NFL is, just because you’re a FA it doesn’t mean you should reset the QB market.
Btw, Flacco beat PFM to get that contract, just saying.
Elevation inc
11-07-2019, 08:53 AM
This illustrates just how ****** up the NFL is, just because you’re a FA it doesn’t mean you should reset the QB market.
Btw, Flacco beat PFM to get that contract, just saying.
No he beat Rahim Moore for it.... :laugh:....Had Rahim Moore made that play...the entire Course of the NFL could have changed.....that's crazy to think about how big that one missed play caused.....In fact Denver is still paying for it by bringing Flacco here :tsk:
Northman
11-07-2019, 09:14 AM
Manning had his chance in OT and went all Cutler with his Int.
Cugel
11-07-2019, 09:16 AM
Do you want “cheap hooker” or “classy escort?”
How about Chauffeur Julio and the Countessa?
Simple Jaded
11-07-2019, 09:17 AM
No he beat Rahim Moore for it.... :laugh:....Had Rahim Moore made that play...the entire Course of the NFL could have changed.....that's crazy to think about how big that one missed play caused.....In fact Denver is still paying for it by bringing Flacco here :tsk:
He outplayed PFM.
Cugel
11-07-2019, 09:32 AM
No he beat Rahim Moore for it.... :laugh:....Had Rahim Moore made that play...the entire Course of the NFL could have changed.....that's crazy to think about how big that one missed play caused.....In fact Denver is still paying for it by bringing Flacco here :tsk:
I never thought of that but you're right. Flacco parlayed that improbable SB win into a huge contract, and then threw 22 INTs in 2013. After that it was mediocrity from there on out -- until they got tired of his act in Baltimore and shipped him out.
And Elway being an egotistical idiot just swallowed the whole "Joe Flacco beat us 7 years ago! He's still in his prime!" I'm not sure how Joe Flacco in 2018 -- 12 TDs and 6 Ints = "in his prime!" But, whatever.
The whole think in retrospect is so strange. Nobody in the NFL was buying the whole Joe Flacco experiment. Elway has just doubled down and doubled down on a losing hand.
Why is Drew Lock not ever practicing? "They have a plan!" An Elway plan to start Lock in the last 2 games of the season!
Of course this will permit Elway to trot out Joe Flacco or some other veteran retread for 2019 because he's always in "win now!" mode and "Lock isn't ready!"
And he won't be given a chance to "get ready" either. Because that would commit Elway to the dreaded "rebuilding team" model he hates.
And he hates it because it clashes with his ego "I'm a winner!" He simply doesn't have the humility to admit "I have to start from scratch, learn from my mistakes and move on."
Simple Jaded
11-07-2019, 09:50 AM
QB’s play well into their 40’s so saying Flacco was entering his prime was accurate ... from a certain point of view.
#TheseArentTheDroidsYoureLookingFor
Elevation inc
11-07-2019, 09:51 AM
He outplayed PFM.
There is a case you could make for that, Flacco was 18 of 34 for 330 yds and 3 TD's. 70 of those yds were on the Rahim moore play including that 3rd TD......Peyton had had 290 yds and 3td's but threw 2 picks. Flacco's QBR rating was 65 and Peyton's 56. take away that last play and they are damn near even for QBR calculation.
Flacco basically heaved a ball in the air praying to the heavens....I'm not so sure outplayed is the right term. Beat Peyton yes, but he got lucky to do it.
Also lets not forget the lucky 59 yarder to Torrey Smith On Champ.....
Elevation inc
11-07-2019, 09:54 AM
What's really Funny is after Flacco got paid after he had his worst year in the reg season, followed by one of his top 2 years in reg season, then a 4 mediocre years up till now, which will be 5 counting this one.
Elevation inc
11-07-2019, 09:55 AM
QB’s play well into their 40’s so saying Flacco was entering his prime was accurate ... from a certain point of view.
#TheseArentTheDroidsYoureLookingFor
:tsk: :laugh:
Elevation inc
11-07-2019, 10:09 AM
Manning had his chance in OT and went all Cutler with his Int.
yeah everyone was pissed about that, but on 3rd and 3 from their own 30 with only 41 second and we had a TD lead........Rahim moore f'ed it up.....
Cugel
11-07-2019, 10:24 AM
QB’s play well into their 40’s so saying Flacco was entering his prime was accurate ... from a certain point of view.
#TheseArentTheDroidsYoureLookingFor
Sure. I'm a lot older than that and I'm in my prime! That's what she said! :laugh:
But, Joe's prime, 6 TDs 5 Ints in 2019, 2018: 12 TDs 6 Ints, 2017 his last full season: 18 TDs 13 Ints, 2016: 20 Tds 15 Ints.
It just don't get any more mediocre than that! He's the NFL version of the Mendoza Line (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mendoza_Line).
Cugel
11-07-2019, 10:28 AM
And it's totally not true to say "Qbs play well into their 40's." Wrong. Tom Brady plays well into his 40's. Nobody else does though. Peyton Manning sure fell off a cliff and so did Eli. It's not looking like Phillip Rivers is going to "play well into his 40's" the way his play has declined this season. Flacco sure isn't going to be in the NFL at 40.
He might not find a team when he's 35.
Brady's just the freak outlier. Drew Brees at 39 might possibly play well into his 40's but he's not there yet.
Simple Jaded
11-07-2019, 11:22 AM
And it's totally not true to say "Qbs play well into their 40's." Wrong. Tom Brady plays well into his 40's. Nobody else does though. Peyton Manning sure fell off a cliff and so did Eli. It's not looking like Phillip Rivers is going to "play well into his 40's" the way his play has declined this season. Flacco sure isn't going to be in the NFL at 40.
He might not find a team when he's 35.
Brady's just the freak outlier. Drew Brees at 39 might possibly play well into his 40's but he's not there yet.
This is John Elway’s plan, surely you’ve heard it from the horses mouth by now.
OrangeHoof
11-08-2019, 12:49 AM
It just don't get any more mediocre than that! He's the NFL version of the Mendoza Line (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mendoza_Line).
No, Fucco is more like an aging .250 hitter. The Mendoza line is for players who can barely keep a job.
Brian Hoyer could be the NFL's Mendoza Line.
Gimpygod
11-16-2019, 10:17 PM
QB’s play well into their 40’s so saying Flacco was entering his prime was accurate ... from a certain point of view.
#TheseArentTheDroidsYoureLookingFor in the last 100 years, 19 quarterbacks out of over 1000 played to the age of 40 or beyond. Only one person got “well into his 40’s” George Blanda at 48... was this a troll post? I am fine if it was because you have seemed more knowledgeable over the years than this statement indicates.
Cugel
11-17-2019, 12:23 PM
Then Elway must be approaching things the wrong way which means he is probably a bigger problem than we even know. He was all in with -- in order -- Osweiler, Butt-fumbler Sanchez, Lynch, Siemian, Lynch, Osweiler, Lynch, Keesum, and Flacco, and now Brandon Allen -- and it costed us three and a half seasons of futility and failure.
There. I've fixed it for you. :coffee:
Cugel
11-17-2019, 12:27 PM
No, Fucco is more like an aging .250 hitter. The Mendoza line is for players who can barely keep a job.
Brian Hoyer could be the NFL's Mendoza Line.
I'm talking only about STARTING NFL QBs. If you include backups, then yes, Brian Hoyer is about the Mendoza Line, and Flacco's well above the Mendoza line.
But, among established starters he's about statistically the NFL worst for the last 5 years.
And since he's passing himself off as a "former SB MVP" starting QB you don't get to compare him with Brian Hoyer or Josh McCown, Josh Johnson (Eagles), or Matt Schaub (holy crap! Matt Schaub is still in the league? Yes. Somehow Matt Shaub is still around.) Apparently Drew Stanton is too. Who knew?
You can only compare Flacco with actual starting QBs. And then, yes, he is that bad. :coffee:
Cugel
11-17-2019, 12:40 PM
Normally a Mendoza Line QB doesn't start for you. But, Elway being Elway, in Denver he does.
Is Flacco really better than a backup QB?
Is he better than Teddy Bridgewater in NO, who has 9 TDs 2 INTs and a 99 passer rating?
How about Ryan Tannehill with a 104 passer rating, 9 TDs 2 INTs, and a 71% completion percentage? No and no. :coffee:
Simple Jaded
11-17-2019, 06:18 PM
Normally a Mendoza Line QB doesn't start for you. But, Elway being Elway, in Denver he does.
Is Flacco really better than a backup QB?
Is he better than Teddy Bridgewater in NO, who has 9 TDs 2 INTs and a 99 passer rating?
How about Ryan Tannehill with a 104 passer rating, 9 TDs 2 INTs, and a 71% completion percentage? No and no. :coffee:
Those are NFL starters too and if they were in Denver people would still be screaming for Brandon Rypien.
Neither one of those QB’s has the rah rah bullshit enthusiasm.
SmilinAssasSin27
11-17-2019, 06:32 PM
There are very few seasons that I would have selected Flacco over Hoyer. Hoyer has some bad luck with timing for his injuries, but has played pretty damn well at times, often outplaying the guys he replaced. Their career passer ratings are separated by less than 2 points...and Flacco had a consistent coach, system and RB/TE friendly dump off talent.
Allen is a nice backup QB.
Simple Jaded
11-17-2019, 09:51 PM
Allen is a nice backup QB.
I don’t hate Brandon Allen.
I don’t hate Brandon Allen.
His arm isn't a mockery of modern QBing. Not great, but it's not a rag.
BroncoWave
11-17-2019, 10:05 PM
I don’t hate Brandon Allen.
But you're supposed to hate everyone! This isn't the jaded I know!
But you're supposed to hate everyone! This isn't the jaded I know!
This is how bad our Qb position has become, Wave. This is Jaded adopting. He's a broken man.
Simple Jaded
11-17-2019, 10:33 PM
But you're supposed to hate everyone! This isn't the jaded I know!
I’m getting old Wave, I’m getting feels.
MOtorboat
11-17-2019, 10:36 PM
I’m getting old Wave, I’m getting feels.
That’s the hemorrhoids, bro.
Simple Jaded
11-17-2019, 10:38 PM
That’s the hemorrhoids, bro.
That’s no shit.
The struggle is real.
Simple Jaded
11-17-2019, 10:39 PM
I’m probably gonna start Metamucil.
Jsteve01
11-17-2019, 11:13 PM
I’m probably gonna start Metamucil.
Do it bro Marietta gives your poop a lovely comfortable jello retexture. Embrace the fiber
Simple Jaded
11-17-2019, 11:37 PM
Do it bro Marietta gives your poop a lovely comfortable jello retexture. Embrace the fiber
Sold! You had me at “jello”.
Elevation inc
11-18-2019, 02:01 AM
Allen is a backup spot starter like most of us thought.....
Slick
11-18-2019, 11:29 AM
At least he gets rid of it instead of taking sacks.
Valar Morghulis
11-18-2019, 11:53 AM
The last 2 games have been better than any 2 consecutive games since the superbowl season - this qb is a big part of the reason for that.
i want them to start Lock ASAP though, as whilst i like what Brandon has done, he is Matt Schaub and we kinda know that, we need to know if Lock is Matt Schaub to we can either build on him, or bin him
The last 2 games have been better than any 2 consecutive games since the superbowl season - this qb is a big part of the reason for that.
i want them to start Lock ASAP though, as whilst i like what Brandon has done, he is Matt Schaub and we kinda know that, we need to know if Lock is Matt Schaub to we can either build on him, or bin him
Schaub was really good for awhile. I always liked that guy.
I agree on Lock, though. Time to let the young man suffer, I mean learn!
Simple Jaded
11-18-2019, 10:44 PM
Flacco will be the 2020 Denver Broncos starting QB.
Flacco will be the 2020 Denver Broncos starting QB.
If that's true Elway should be fired.
Simple Jaded
11-18-2019, 10:53 PM
If that's true Elway should be fired.
He’s the best QB Denver has had since PFM, it’s not even debatable.
He’s the best QB Denver has had since PFM, it’s not even debatable.
Good point - Elway should be fired yesterday.
Northman
11-18-2019, 10:56 PM
Flacco will be the 2020 Denver Broncos starting QB.
Highly highly doubtful.
NightTerror218
11-18-2019, 11:07 PM
Highly highly doubtful.
Can save $20 mil by cutting him lose
Northman
11-18-2019, 11:11 PM
Can save $20 mil by cutting him lose
That is true but the other issue is the offense is not geared toward him at all. That much has been proven since Allen has come in and the playcalling. So unless Fangio goes with another OC next year who can cater more to Flacco's strengths than i think we will be moving on from him or at best he sits behind Lock or even Allen.
Simple Jaded
11-18-2019, 11:13 PM
Highly highly doubtful.
Hey I’m fine if they cut him tomorrow, I just see it completely opposite to everybody else.
He’s the best QB on the roster and it’s not even close, plus, the NFL isn’t as infatuated with one-read/run QB’s as Broncos fans seem to be.
Simple Jaded
11-18-2019, 11:14 PM
That is true but the other issue is the offense is not geared toward him at all. That much has been proven since Allen has come in and the playcalling. So unless Fangio goes with another OC next year who can cater more to Flacco's strengths than i think we will be moving on from him or at best he sits behind Lock or even Allen.
If this offense NEEDS Allen then I hope there is a new OC.
Northman
11-18-2019, 11:15 PM
Hey I’m fine if they cut him tomorrow, I just see it completely opposite to everybody else.
He’s the best QB on the roster and it’s not even close, plus, the NFL isn’t as infatuated with one-read/run QB’s as Broncos fans seem to be.
Im not enamored with any of them (except for Lock because i have not seen him yet) but Joe is clearly not going to work here, not with we have seen this year prior to his injury.
Northman
11-18-2019, 11:16 PM
If this offense NEEDS Allen then I hope there is a new OC.
Im just saying, i think it may be Lock and then Allen next year.
Simple Jaded
11-18-2019, 11:18 PM
Im not enamored with any of them (except for Lock because i have not seen him yet) but Joe is clearly not going to work here, not with we have seen this year prior to his injury.
Sure he can work here, or anywhere else that has a good OL. He’s an NFL starter.
Northman
11-18-2019, 11:20 PM
Sure he can work here, or anywhere else that has a good OL. He’s an NFL starter.
The line isnt the entire problem though, there were times he had time and held onto the ball to long. He might have more experience than the other guys but i wouldnt be to quick to say he is the best Qb based on that.
Simple Jaded
11-18-2019, 11:23 PM
Im just saying, i think it may be Lock and then Allen next year.
We can only hope.
Could be 100% but that’s assuming the Broncos have made the right choice (twice) at the QB position, something we’re both saying they haven’t done yet. Because that means Lock beat Flacco out.
I doubt, and hope they do not, move on from Flacco (unless something unforeseen, ie trade/FA) before the two compete in TC.
Northman
11-18-2019, 11:24 PM
We can only hope.
Could be 100% but that’s assuming the Broncos have made the right choice (twice) at the QB position, something we’re both saying they haven’t done yet. Because that means Lock beat Flacco out.
I doubt, and hope they do not, move on from Flacco (unless something unforeseen, ie trade/FA) before the two compete in TC.
Well, seeing how this season is going for LA the Chargers may be moving on from Rivers.
Simple Jaded
11-18-2019, 11:25 PM
The line isnt the entire problem though, there were times he had time and held onto the ball to long. He might have more experience than the other guys but i wouldnt be to quick to say he is the best Qb based on that.
Clearly Flacco is part of the problem but what’s easier to find, a QB with NFL starter talent AND the mobility Flacco lacks ... or a LT that doesn’t get 4 holding penalties a game?
Simple Jaded
11-18-2019, 11:25 PM
Well, seeing how this season is going for LA the Chargers may be moving on from Rivers.
Bring it.
He’s struggling too though.
Northman
11-18-2019, 11:27 PM
Clearly Flacco is part of the problem but what’s easier to find, a QB with NFL starter talent AND the mobility Flacco lacks ... or a LT that doesn’t get 4 holding penalties a game?
Well there is ZERO doubt we need to be moving on from Bolles or at least move him. Im all on the OL train in round one next year.
Simple Jaded
11-18-2019, 11:31 PM
Well there is ZERO doubt we need to be moving on from Bolles or at least move him. Im all on the OL train in round one next year.
Totally agree, 1st, 2nd and 3rd round for all I care. This OL Shit has gone on long enough.
I’m just thinking toward the 2021 QB class, stacked.
2020 is all about figuring out if they need a QB in 2021, but Flacco/Lock/2021 will need a better OL regardless.
Simple Jaded
11-18-2019, 11:32 PM
If Denver still goes QB in 2020 1st round I won’t mind a bit.
Northman
11-18-2019, 11:34 PM
If Denver still goes QB in 2020 1st round I won’t mind a bit.
I would rather wait for Lawrence. Keep stocking draft picks and use them to move up and grab his ass.
Elevation inc
11-19-2019, 01:49 AM
Hey I’m fine if they cut him tomorrow, I just see it completely opposite to everybody else.
He’s the best QB on the roster and it’s not even close, plus, the NFL isn’t as infatuated with one-read/run QB’s as Broncos fans seem to be.
Jaded I understand why you feel that way....But he isn't that player anymore.....he just isn't.....
Elevation inc
11-19-2019, 01:50 AM
If Denver still goes QB in 2020 1st round I won’t mind a bit.
Yeah its not a bad thing to have to much QB talent.....
Valar Morghulis
11-19-2019, 02:38 AM
Schaub was really good for awhile. I always liked that guy.
I agree on Lock, though. Time to let the young man suffer, I mean learn!
Schaub has a good 18 months in Kubes system
He could never carry a team
He was interception prone
He was limited in every way
I have no idea how this boards most vocal qb and kubes critic can argue that schaub was good. Case semen Was basically schaub
The king wants Matt schaub ...... because he likes the guy lmao
Schaub has a good 18 months in Kubes system
He could never carry a team
He was interception prone
He was limited in every way
I have no idea how this boards most vocal qb and kubes critic can argue that schaub was good. Case semen Was basically schaub
The king wants Matt schaub ...... because he likes the guy lmao
I suppose we just have radically different views.
Schaub took his team to the playoffs, and he had a great/good defense and a strong running game. That being said, I think Denver fans can appreciate how even those things can come up short when you have no QB. So sure, he wasn't pulling a Russell Wilson or Aaron Rodgers, but he wasn't a young Big Ben/Joe Flacco where he was asked to do next to nothing, either.
He was not really INT prone during his prime years. Schaub was solid because he had a 1.5 to 1 TD to INT ratio, which wasn't awful at the time.
Regarding limitation, I disagree. He was immobile, but he had a good pocket awareness and he could throw the ball downfield. He didn't possess an Elway arm, but he wasn't Chad Pennington.
I don't see any comparison between MS and TS. One guy had three seasons where he threw for over 4k yards and once led the league in passing. TS was a bottom tier production QB. One guy had a legitimate NFL arm and another guy could barely throw an out route. One guy was a third round pick and was viewed as intruiging enough for Houston to trade for him. The other guy was a seventh round pick by the same coach. You can't reconcile that, Val. Moreover, TS has a 59% on completions. MS has a 63/64% on that stat. TS rarely threw the ball down the field and MS could throw some bombs from time to time, which makes TS' low percentage even more appalling.
Schaub was at times considered to be a top 10-12 QB. No one thought that about TS. One guy has had some playoff success. The other guy couldn't even get a top five defense into the playoffs. They had the same coach, too.
Valar Morghulis
11-19-2019, 04:07 AM
That was beautifully put.
I’m not sure he ever won a play off game though, and Robert Griffin has had success “in his prime”
My thought is if we wanted average talent game managers we should have stuck with any of our post manning qbs .... but since we are looking for something else, Allen needs to go in place of lock and of lock is going to have rg3 or schaub level talent..... let’s swing again
That was beautifully put.
I’m not sure he ever won a play off game though, and Robert Griffin has had success “in his prime”
My thought is if we wanted average talent game managers we should have stuck with any of our post manning qbs .... but since we are looking for something else, Allen needs to go in place of lock and of lock is going to have rg3 or schaub level talent..... let’s swing again
He has one or two wins. RG3 had a lot of success for one year. Crazy what one injury will do to him. I'm not saying that I want Brandon Allen as our starting QB. I'm just saying that prime Schaub was really good for awhile. He wasn't great. But having prime Schaub would be akin to having a legitimate Pro Bowl QB. That's all. I don't think Allen is even Schaub level good. On that I should have been clearer, because the lack of that statement lead to the inference of 'hey, Allen's good enough potentially, we ride.'
I want Lock to get a good chance on the field. And if we have to take a Qb in the first round, guns blazing.
Valar Morghulis
11-19-2019, 04:22 AM
Gotcha
we disagree on schaub but agree on Allen
Alles klar
Here's the hot take - Schaub made/saved Kubiak and not the other way around. Kubiak got good production out of MS, because MS was good. Kubiak got average production out of Joe Flacco, because at the time Joe Flacco was average. TS sucked and Kubiak got sucky production out of him. Kubiak never elevated anything.
Elevation inc
11-19-2019, 04:37 AM
That was beautifully put.
I’m not sure he ever won a play off game though, and Robert Griffin has had success “in his prime”
My thought is if we wanted average talent game managers we should have stuck with any of our post manning qbs .... but since we are looking for something else, Allen needs to go in place of lock and of lock is going to have rg3 or schaub level talent..... let’s swing again
All of this and then some....TS was below Avg., and needed everything around him to go right to even sniff success. Case was subpar and so was Flacco.....The end result is I would have rather had the cheaper Sub par QB then the 18 mil a year subpar QB regardless of their arm strength.....Its all a wash now....hopefully we do the right thing get Lock ready to play, start him ride the rest of the way with him and determine if were back to the drawing board in next years draft and FA......
Valar Morghulis
11-19-2019, 05:22 AM
All of this and then some....TS was below Avg., and needed everything around him to go right to even sniff success. Case was subpar and so was Flacco.....The end result is I would have rather had the cheaper Sub par QB then the 18 mil a year subpar QB regardless of their arm strength.....Its all a wash now....hopefully we do the right thing get Lock ready to play, start him ride the rest of the way with him and determine if were back to the drawing board in next years draft and FA......
Fair!
BroncoWave
11-19-2019, 06:59 AM
I would rather wait for Lawrence. Keep stocking draft picks and use them to move up and grab his ass.
Like half the league is going to be trying to get Lawrence. Banking that we'll be the team is a risky as hell strategy. I'd rather roll with what we got and build elsewhere.
Elevation inc
11-19-2019, 07:09 AM
Like half the league is going to be trying to get Lawrence. Banking that we'll be the team is a risky as hell strategy. I'd rather roll with what we got and build elsewhere.
Agreed, and to be honest Lawrence really isn't having a great year this year either.....the hype train slowed down for me a bit that's for sure......
Like half the league is going to be trying to get Lawrence. Banking that we'll be the team is a risky as hell strategy. I'd rather roll with what we got and build elsewhere.
It will be comparable to the atmosphere of when Luck was up for grabs. If TL has a big season and is still seen as the godly prospect of gods, the asking price would be so high that it would be impossible.
Northman
11-19-2019, 09:04 AM
Like half the league is going to be trying to get Lawrence. Banking that we'll be the team is a risky as hell strategy. I'd rather roll with what we got and build elsewhere.
Agreed, and to be honest Lawrence really isn't having a great year this year either.....the hype train slowed down for me a bit that's for sure......
It will be comparable to the atmosphere of when Luck was up for grabs. If TL has a big season and is still seen as the godly prospect of gods, the asking price would be so high that it would be impossible.
Except most of the league is already getting their #1 QB's. I like our chances!
OrangeHoof
11-19-2019, 09:16 AM
Flacco is an immobile QB who can't escape the rush. Since our OL is still subpar when it comes to pass-blocking, we need a guy who can escape the rush. I'm not sure that's a strong suit of Lock either but he seems more escapable than Flacco. As we watch Jackson, Wilson and Watson make chicken salad out of chickens--t on a regular basis, Broncos fans notice that as soon as somebody breaks through the line, Denver's play is essentially over with Flacco at QB.
The Glue Factory
11-19-2019, 09:55 AM
I suppose we just have radically different views.
Schaub took his team to the playoffs, and he had a great/good defense and a strong running game.
*cough*Tebow*cough*
Simple Jaded
11-20-2019, 01:40 AM
Jaded I understand why you feel that way....But he isn't that player anymore.....he just isn't.....
He was that player just 20-some days ago.
Simple Jaded
11-20-2019, 01:42 AM
Agreed, and to be honest Lawrence really isn't having a great year this year either.....the hype train slowed down for me a bit that's for sure......
He’s back on track now.
Elevation inc
11-20-2019, 01:43 AM
He was that player just 20-some days ago.
:tsk: he was that player for a few brief moments per game and that was about it.....you could say that about half the scrub QB's in the NFL that are starting......from opening game to 20 days ago he was choking in the redone and 3rd down constantly while throwing hail Mary's from the 10 yd. line out the back of the end zone on 3 consecutive plays cause he saw a different colored jersey 5 yds away.....:lol:
Simple Jaded
11-20-2019, 01:48 AM
Best QB on the team, legit NFL starter ... so he can’t run option ... Lamar Jackson can’t read a defense.
6 of one/half dozen the other. A starter is a starter.
Elevation inc
11-20-2019, 01:50 AM
Best QB on the team, legit NFL starter ... so he can’t run option ... Lamar Jackson can’t read a defense.
6 of one/half dozen the other. A starter is a starter.
your science detection is broken....:lol:
Jsteve01
11-20-2019, 05:14 PM
Here's the hot take - Schaub made/saved Kubiak and not the other way around. Kubiak got good production out of MS, because MS was good. Kubiak got average production out of Joe Flacco, because at the time Joe Flacco was average. TS sucked and Kubiak got sucky production out of him. Kubiak never elevated anything.
You're forgetting Plummer who had his best seasons under Kubes and then regressed horribly when he left. But I get your point. Elway was also much more efficient under Kubes and Griese had a very good start to his second year as a starter prior to getting hurt.
Cugel
11-20-2019, 09:33 PM
I want Lock to get a good chance on the field. And if we have to take a Qb in the first round, guns blazing.
Obviously Elway does NOT want to take a QB in the first round. He wants Joe Flacco, or some other veteran QB. Young QBs make mistakes and don't help you to "win now."
For this reason, I don't expect them to draft a QB with their top 10 pick next year either. And it doesn't appear that Drew Lock will start more than maybe the last two games this season because "he's not ready."
Of course he'll never "get ready" if they don't start him and when better than when you have a lost season. But, Elway never gets it through his thick head that his team is toast until they get a star Qb.
He's still trying to "win now" right up till they lose their 8th or 9th game of the season. Then there will be further excuses not to start Drew Lock.
You're forgetting Plummer who had his best seasons under Kubes and then regressed horribly when he left. But I get your point. Elway was also much more efficient under Kubes and Griese had a very good start to his second year as a starter prior to getting hurt.
Let's be honest - it was Shanahan's show. That's why Kubiak couldn't get an elite year out of anyone but John, and Shanahan had elite years out of multiple QB's. Also, Kubiak could no longer update his offense, which is why John refused to keep him on. Well, that and Kubes penchant for wanting us to keep his old coaches, who we had already fired once.
Valar Morghulis
11-22-2019, 06:01 AM
Shots fired
Cugel
11-22-2019, 09:56 AM
Let's be honest - it was Shanahan's show. That's why Kubiak couldn't get an elite year out of anyone but John, and Shanahan had elite years out of multiple QB's. Also, Kubiak could no longer update his offense, which is why John refused to keep him on. Well, that and Kubes penchant for wanting us to keep his old coaches, who we had already fired once.
Elway sat down with Shanahan after VJ's first disastrous season. It was obvious to everybody that VJ in way over his head and Elway wanted to fire him. So, after a conversation they agreed Shanahan would come back and be the coach, but Elway would still be GM and pick the players.
Shanny told Elway there was no way Joe Ellis would agree to hire him back but Elway was convinced he could convince Joe. He was wrong. Ellis vetoed the move and told Elway that he could fire VJ if he wanted, but they would have to interview a bunch of coaching candidates and not just anoint Elway's pick.
That's when Elway famously decided to "sleep on it" and after a night of reflection decided to keep VJ for 1 more year. :tsk:
All this was reported by numerous sources on the radio (104.3 the Fan) and Altitude Sports).
I blame Joe Ellis on that one. But, clearly Elway could have started a coaching search rather than keep VJ, but he seems to have been miffed at Ellis' shooting down his decision to hire Shanahan back and just said "screw it! We're keeping VJ and give it one more shot." :tsk:
Cugel
11-22-2019, 09:59 AM
Frankly, re-hiring Shanahan might have worked. Shanny wasn't a bad coach, he was a bad GM. His teams consistently won 7-9 games a year, but only had 1 playoff win over 10 seasons. That would be a big improvement over the current team.
And in DC he was constantly undermined by idiot owner Dan Snyder who had picked RGIII and wanted him to start while Shanny wanted Kirk Cousins.
Snyder would fly RGIII around on his private jet and they'd have player to owner discussions after games behind Shanny's back. It was an impossible situation.
So, they fired Shanahan so RGIII would have a clear lane to be their starter -- and he pooped his shorts and had to be released. That's one seriously dysfunctional team -- far worse than the Broncos.
Northman
11-24-2019, 05:29 PM
This thread didnt age well.
Simple Jaded
11-24-2019, 06:45 PM
your science detection is broken....:lol:
Trust me, Inc, trust science.
Let's be honest - it was Shanahan's show. That's why Kubiak couldn't get an elite year out of anyone but John, and Shanahan had elite years out of multiple QB's. Also, Kubiak could no longer update his offense, which is why John refused to keep him on. Well, that and Kubes penchant for wanting us to keep his old coaches, who we had already fired once.
No. Kubes is the OC that all OCs aspire to be.
You should be ashamed of your opinion and your inability to appreciate greatness
No. Kubes is the OC that all OCs aspire to be.
You should be ashamed of your opinion and your inability to appreciate greatness
It's been a long time since Kubiak had 'produced' greatness.
It's been a long time since Kubiak had 'produced' greatness.
Define "long time"
Define "long time"
Well, in 10 combined seasons as a head coach he won 10 or more games three times. The last time he did that his offense was awful, he didn't let his QB play out of the shotgun, and his team won on the back of the defense. So I'd start after that season, my friend.
Well, in 10 combined seasons as a head coach he won 10 or more games three times. The last time he did that his offense was awful, he didn't let his QB play out of the shotgun, and his team won on the back of the defense. So I'd start after that season, my friend.
So you are starting the season after he won the SB?
Good Lord....I hope you are drunk.
So you are starting the season after he won the SB?
Good Lord....I hope you are drunk.
I said greatness he produced. He produced. Not greatness he was present for.
I said greatness he produced. He produced. Not greatness he was present for.
I don't agree with your opinion of Kubes.
You should maybe take another look at his career as an OC. I mean with open eyes and no preconceived ideas. I think you will be surprised.
Simple Jaded
11-24-2019, 11:10 PM
Kubes would be ideal if we didn’t have to have the garbage that comes with him, Dennison and scrub OLmen.
I don't agree with your opinion of Kubes.
You should maybe take another look at his career as an OC. I mean with open eyes and no preconceived ideas. I think you will be surprised.
I am familiar with his career. We don't have to agree, though. I can only feud with one brother at a time, Slim. And right now I cannot feud with you.
I am familiar with his career. We don't have to agree, though. I can only feud with one brother at a time, Slim. And right now I cannot feud with you.
I am not interested in feuding either, but facts are hard to ignore.
I pray I never hate you like I hate MO
I am not interested in feuding either, but facts are hard to ignore.
I pray I never hate you like I hate MO
My opinion is based on facts. It's also not tainted with nostalgia. Or sentiment to a nice time in history, because I wasn't apart of the team's fanbase during those times.
My opinion is based on facts. It's also not tainted with nostalgia. Or sentiment to a nice time in history, because I wasn't apart of the team's fanbase during those times.
I will always question the "facts" presented by a lawyer...they are often opinion, spun into "fact".
Do not disparage Kubes based on your personal bias, I will not have it.
I will always question the "facts" presented by a lawyer...they are often opinion, spun into "fact".
Do not disparage Kubes based on your personal bias, I will not have it.
I'm not a lawyer, Slim. You know this. I'm just a loser who had to take time off from school. Because he's a fat, stupid, albeit handsome, loser.
I'm about to extend you an olive branch, though.
Elevation inc
11-25-2019, 11:08 AM
Kubes would be ideal if we didn’t have to have the garbage that comes with him, Dennison and scrub OLmen.
Exactly...in fact had Kubes been willing to innovate just a bit and change his staff up a bit...he would be our OC right now, instead of scags who is seemingly in over his head....I get the loyalty portion from Kubes with his ex staff, but the reality is most of his staff cant cut it anywhere else without him....that's a job performance thing and he seems unable to realize that much like Shanny did with good O'L Bob Slowik....
Shazam!
11-25-2019, 11:21 AM
How can any Broncos fan hate Kubes idk smh
They were a few left turns from Kirk Cousins, Kubes and Shanny.
How can any Broncos fan hate Kubes idk smh
They were a few left turns from Kirk Cousins, Kubes and Shanny.
Last year Cousins threw 30 TDs, 10 INts, completed 70 percent of his passes, for 4,300 yards. That's a pretty ******* nice year.
Kubiak hasn't had a good season with his offense in quite some time.
Shanahan bombed after RG3 got hurt. He wasn't doing so great his last few years in Denver, either.
Going backwards isn't the answer, either.
Shazam!
11-25-2019, 11:30 AM
How can any Broncos fan hate Kubes idk smh
They were a few left turns from Kirk Cousins, Kubes and Shanny.
Last year Cousins threw 30 TDs, 10 INts, completed 70 percent of his passes, for 4,300 yards. That's a pretty ******* nice year.
Kubiak hasn't had a good season with his offense in quite some time.
Shanahan bombed after RG3 got hurt. He wasn't doing so great his last few years in Denver, either.
Going backwards isn't the answer, either.
Howd Kyles team look in SF running that archaic offense?
Elevation inc
11-25-2019, 11:38 AM
How can any Broncos fan hate Kubes idk smh
They were a few left turns from Kirk Cousins, Kubes and Shanny.
I don't hate him but that doesn't mean we cant be critical....
Howd Kyles team look in SF running that archaic offense?
Do you realize that Kyle's version is updated? Be honest.
https://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2019/06/01/kyle-shanahans-evolving-position-less-offense/
Read that. If you think that's what Kubes was doing, you're wrong. It's an update in philosophy. At LA, another twist on the offense is using larger lineman like Whitworth for instance, on the line. It's not reinventing the wheel. It's updating it. Elway booted Kubes because Kubes didn't want an update. That was made clear in the link I posted in the other thread, and was reported at the time that we didn't give kubes the offer.
One of the biggest frustrations I have with how we remember Kubiak is that we gloss over his failings and give him credit for team success that was almost solely predicated on the other side of the ball.
He used to be an innovator. He's not that anymore. Maybe he could innovate his schemes again, but that'd be a new thing for him. It's not bashing him. Facts are facts.
TXBRONC
11-25-2019, 12:13 PM
Allen is a backup spot starter like most of us thought.....
I never thought he would go on big win streak.
This is the most depressing thing I have seen in awhile.
https://www.espn.com/blog/denver-broncos/post/_/id/34431/broncos-average-4-8-inches-per-play-over-final-five-drives
"Early on it was kind of OK, considering the conditions and the defense we were going against," Fangio said. "At some point there, we stopped moving it totally, and they kind of smothered us; so it was a problem, obviously, and one we have to get rectified somehow."
Yes, the Broncos' final five possessions on Sunday -- from the time McManus made the 3-pointer until quarterback Brandon Allen threw an incompletion with 7:15 to play -- ended in three-and-outs. Those last five possessions amounted to a total of 15 plays for a combined 2 net yards -- or an average of roughly 4.8 inches per play.
Our FO and HC don't think it's 'imperative' to get Lock out there.
Shazam!
11-25-2019, 12:28 PM
One of the biggest frustrations I have with how we remember Kubiak is that we gloss over his failings and give him credit for team success that was almost solely predicated on the other side of the ball.
He used to be an innovator. He's not that anymore. Maybe he could innovate his schemes again, but that'd be a new thing for him. It's not bashing him. Facts are facts.
King those are your OPINIONS not facts
Shazam!
11-25-2019, 12:32 PM
Last i checked Minnesota has a better offense than theyve had in years top 10 in nearly every meaningful category and Cousins is having a career best year.
Kubes had nothing to do with that nahhh #rolleyes
Last i checked Minnesota has a better offense than theyve had in years top 10 in nearly every meaningful category and Cousins is having a career best year.
Kubes had nothing to do with that nahhh #rolleyes
Kubiak isn't even their offensive coordinator. Last season Cousins threw 30 TDs, only ten INTs, 4,300 yards, and completed 70 percent of his passes. Do you really mean to tell me that Kubiak, as an assistant coach, is the reason for another great year from Cousins? The same Kubiak who put Peyton Manning in the pistol offense and out of the shotgun? The same Kubiak whose offensive performance and playcalling were decried his two seasons here as head coach?
Is there any reason for that other than you want it to be true?
Because if you have a reason other than his last name, I'd love to hear it.
Valar Morghulis
11-25-2019, 12:43 PM
Kubiak isn't even their offensive coordinator. Last season Cousins threw 30 TDs, only ten INTs, 4,300 yards, and completed 70 percent of his passes. Do you really mean to tell me that Kubiak, as an assistant coach, is the reason for another great year from Cousins? The same Kubiak who put Peyton Manning in the pistol offense and out of the shotgun? The same Kubiak whose offensive performance and playcalling were decried his two seasons here as head coach?
Is there any reason for that other than you want it to be true?
Because if you have a reason other than his last name, I'd love to hear it.
Dalvin Cook is making Rick Dennison look like a genius!
King those are your OPINIONS not facts
Except for the fact (lol) that everyone was in wide agreement during his last stint here that his scheme was a carbon copy of past years. Except for the fact that Kubiak didn't want to make updates/changes to his scheme.
https://apnews.com/8279309f867041fbada645b77df6a62e
Kubiak had wanted to bring back some of the assistant coaches who have followed him throughout his coaching career along with dusting off schemes that were successful in another era but don’t fit with the Broncos’ quest to modernize their approach
Shazam, you could have just admitted that you didn't know something. It's okay to admit that, man. We're all friends here.
Shazam!
11-25-2019, 12:46 PM
Im well aware of the events that led up to it King. I don't need a briefing.
Kubiak offense cant be worse than what were seeing here. Like yesterday.
Im well aware of the events that led up to it King. I don't need a briefing.
Kubiak offense cant be worse than what were seeing here. Like yesterday.
So you actively chose to be wrong because you like Kubiak? Everyone knows he doesn't update his offense. Everyone knows he got booted because of it. Everyone knows that his offenses sucked his last time here. Everyone knows this. So how does he get magical credit for a productive QB, Cousins, who was productive before him? Let alone as a guy who isn't even the OC?
I have an idea - instead of always going to the past for answers, and relive past glories, why not...bring in some new blood? It's inevitable, anyway.
When your innovative coordinator needs to "modernize" his offense, you might have a problem. When his offenses have been meh or bad in recent memory, you do have a problem.
Shazam!
11-25-2019, 01:03 PM
He got 'booted' because Fangio didn't want Kubiak shaping HIS Coaching staff. Too many cooks in the kitchen.
He got booted because Fangio didn't want Kubiak shaping HIS Coaching staff. Too many cooks un the kitchen.
And the fact that he wouldn't modernize his offense. As evidenced by the link from AP.
Shazam!
11-25-2019, 01:32 PM
The Link states philosophy and STAFF it was the single biggest reason Fangio would be chopoed off at the knees
Cugel
11-25-2019, 01:35 PM
YOu know, if we could be confident that Elway would draft a QB with the top 5 pick, I'd be fine with starting Brandon Stinkin' Allen for the next five games and make sure to lose every single one.
But, the idiot Elway plan seems to be: "Don't start Drew Lock, because the fans might become enthusiastic about him starting and expect him to start next season, and that's not the plan! The plan is to trot out so aged has-been or never-was QB like Joe Flacco, or perhaps Nick Folles is still "in his prime" or perhaps Teddy Bridgewater can be persuaded to dust off his crippled knees and come to Denver.
"Then Drew Lock will need to take a back seat and I need to control the public narrative -- which is 'Drew Lock isn't ready!' " so that the fans don't riot when I do something they hate -- like put out another mediocre veteran QB in a desperate attempt to salvage my reputation." -- John Elway
Hence Drew Lock cannot start because he's "not ready" and he can never GET ready because Elway doesn't want the fan base to commit to him they way they started to do with Kyle Sloter. "I have to get rid of fan favorites I don't want to play." :tsk:
Cugel
11-25-2019, 01:40 PM
The decision to bring back Kubiak to be the OC that led to conflict when he wanted to bring back Brian Periani and Rick Dennison has been well documented.
Clearly, Joe Ellis played a leading role in this behind the scenes, just as Joe Ellis refused Elway's request to bring back Mike Shanahan to coach when he wanted to fire VJ after VJ's first season.
We don't know why Ellis was so opposed but clearly Elway was fine with firing Brian Periani and didn't want him back either (supposedly he was even more of a sticking point than Rick Dennison). Kubiak insisted and that was that -- the Broncos and Kubiak parted ways immediately thereafter and Kubiak went to MN.
Shazam!
11-25-2019, 01:59 PM
The decision to bring back Kubiak to be the OC that led to conflict when he wanted to bring back Brian Periani and Rick Dennison has been well documented.
Clearly, Joe Ellis played a leading role in this behind the scenes, just as Joe Ellis refused Elway's request to bring back Mike Shanahan to coach when he wanted to fire VJ after VJ's first season.
We don't know why Ellis was so opposed but clearly Elway was fine with firing Brian Periani and didn't want him back either (supposedly he was even more of a sticking point than Rick Dennison). Kubiak insisted and that was that -- the Broncos and Kubiak parted ways immediately thereafter and Kubiak went to MN.
They wanted Munchak
The Link states philosophy and STAFF it was the single biggest reason Fangio would be chopoed off at the knees
And PHILOSOPHY is updating your scheme and making it more modern, like LA and SF have done. Modernize their approach, offensive scheme, OC.
"After firing head coach Vance Joseph two weeks ago, Elway said he wants to modernize the Broncos’ schemes."
If we have a difference in philosophy, and I want a modern offense, and you don't, what does that mean about your scheme? At best you can argue that in Elway's opinion the scheme wasn't modern.
Shazam!
11-25-2019, 02:07 PM
The Staff was the biggest problem King and the real reason hes not here anymore. They didn't assume he wanted to bring his whole staff back. Cant do that to Fangio.
I dont know what you're not seeing here.
This is all old news anyway i have no idea why its still an issue.
The Staff was the biggest problem King and the real reason hes not here anymore. They didn't assume he wanted to bring his whole staff back. Cant do that to Fangio.
I dont know what you're not seeing here.
This is all old news anyway i have no idea why its still an issue.
But that's only HALF of what's been reported on it. Kubiak doesn't update his offense. It's a big reason why he got booted. The fact that he wants all his old boys as coaches also hints at him not being a guy who changes things. You can't change what's been reported over and over and over again, and you can't change that fact. That's why wanting to bring him back makes no sense. It's why looking at as a guy who could fix our issues doesn't make sense. It's just nostalgia.
Shazam!
11-25-2019, 02:27 PM
Everything was fine until he wanted to bring back assistants that were essentially dismissed. Fangio wanted to shape his staff and they really wanted Munchak... Not Dennison. Cant let Kubiak shapr Fangios staff for him... Then Kubiak shoulda been Coach not Fangio.
I believe if Elway knew he would lose Kubiak he would have never gave the job to Fangio but thats just me.
Everything was fine until he wanted to bring back assistants that were essentially dismissed. Fangio wanted to shape his staff and they really wanted Munchak... Not Dennison. Cant let Kubiak shapr Fangios staff for him... Then Kubiak shoulda been Coach not Fangio.
I believe if Elway knew he would lose Kubiak he would have never gave the job to Fangio but thats just me.
Right, that's part of it. But you can't ignore the other part of what was reported, Shazam.
Shazam!
11-25-2019, 02:52 PM
Everything was fine until he wanted to bring back assistants that were essentially dismissed. Fangio wanted to shape his staff and they really wanted Munchak... Not Dennison. Cant let Kubiak shapr Fangios staff for him... Then Kubiak shoulda been Coach not Fangio.
I believe if Elway knew he would lose Kubiak he would have never gave the job to Fangio but thats just me.
Right, that's part of it. But you can't ignore the other part of what was reported, Shazam.
Neither can you King. Everything was fine until talk of Dennison and Co. Kubiak was insistent on bringing in his whole offensive staff, they wanted Munch. Kubes wanted to bring in guys Denver essentially FIRED and not pay a whole other Staff off the books.
Neither can you King. Everything was fine until talk of Dennison and Co. Kubiak was insistent on bringing in his whole offensive staff, they wanted Munch. Kubes wanted to bring in guys Denver essentially FIRED and not pay a whole other Staff off the books.
I'm not ignoring that part of it. I willfully acknowledge it. It's even part of the content that I quoted from the AP article. But my point is that pining over a guy who won't/can't update his offense is a waste of time, and it would be a bad move. We would still have a bad offense with Kubiak. We had a bad offense with Kubiak for two years. It's the same offensive style under him, that's the point. And we still have a bad line, that he can't fix, and still have bad QB talent, that he can't fix.
Shazam!
11-25-2019, 03:43 PM
Neither can you King. Everything was fine until talk of Dennison and Co. Kubiak was insistent on bringing in his whole offensive staff, they wanted Munch. Kubes wanted to bring in guys Denver essentially FIRED and not pay a whole other Staff off the books.
I'm not ignoring that part of it. I willfully acknowledge it. It's even part of the content that I quoted from the AP article. But my point is that pining over a guy who won't/can't update his offense is a waste of time, and it would be a bad move. We would still have a bad offense with Kubiak. We had a bad offense with Kubiak for two years. It's the same offensive style under him, that's the point. And we still have a bad line, that he can't fix, and still have bad QB talent, that he can't fix.
There are si many reasons why the offense was what it was during Kubes two years but it was nowhere as bad as it is now.
The offenses you speak of was not as bad as now.
I think the talent drain was huge after SB50. Four new Starters on OLine alone was a disaster and when they really spiraled down the toilet on the Line.
There are si many reasons why the offense was what it was during Kubes two years but it was nowhere as bad as it is now.
The offenses you speak of was not as bad as now.
I think the talent drain was huge after SB50. Four new Starters on OLine alone was a disaster and when they really spiraled down the toilet on the Line.
Kubiak was sold to us as a guy who would fix our line and our running game. He did neither in two years. He also put Manning in the pistol, when Manning is a shotgun QB. His last year here we had a bottom five offense.
Jsteve01
11-25-2019, 04:12 PM
So kinger and this is not a sarcastic question. Because I'm not a huge kubiak fan at this point either. but why is he having success in Minnesota? Is it that Kirk cousins is an elite quarterback and dalvin cook is that good?
So kinger and this is not a sarcastic question. Because I'm not a huge kubiak fan at this point either. but why is he having success in Minnesota? Is it that Kirk cousins is an elite quarterback and dalvin cook is that good?
He's not having huge success in MN. He's not even the OC. Last year, with no Kubiak, Cousins threw for 30 TDs, 10 Ints, 4,300 yards, and completed 70 percent of his passes. Those are Pro Bowl numbers. Cousins has another good season and attributing it to Kubiak is like attributing any new assistant coach to any other established good QB's success.
Let's be honest, the issue with Cousins was never production, it was winning. I guess Kubiak, an assistant head coach is the reason why Cousins is playing well and the Vikings are back in playoff contention again? It's not the fact that they still have a loaded roster, an easier schedule this year, and have an established top level head coach in Zimmer?
Jsteve01
11-25-2019, 04:30 PM
He's not having huge success in MN. He's not even the OC. Last year, with no Kubiak, Cousins threw for 30 TDs, 10 Ints, 4,300 yards, and completed 70 percent of his passes. Those are Pro Bowl numbers. Cousins has another good season and attributing it to Kubiak is like attributing any new assistant coach to any other established good QB's success.
Let's be honest, the issue with Cousins was never production, it was winning. I guess Kubiak, an assistant head coach is the reason why Cousins is playing well and the Vikings are back in playoff contention again? It's not the fact that they still have a loaded roster, an easier schedule this year, and have an established top level head coach in Zimmer?
I'm being completely honest. I haven't followed them closely this year. But I know that cousins is playing at even higher level than he was last year. I don't have any insight I'm just looking at a top 8 offense kind of quarterback who looks better now than he did in 2018.
NightTrainLayne
11-25-2019, 04:34 PM
It is kind of strange how anything positive that happens around Kubiak is to somebody else's credit, while any negatives reside solely on his shoulders.
Valar Morghulis
11-25-2019, 04:40 PM
It is kind of strange how anything positive that happens around Kubiak is to somebody else's credit, while any negatives reside solely on his shoulders.
I know what you mean, but in this case Kubes was the play caller for two terrible broncos offenses
He is not the OC or the QB coach in minny
So I sort of agree with king......... just without the extreme anti Kubes vitriol
I'm being completely honest. I haven't followed them closely this year. But I know that cousins is playing at even higher level than he was last year. I don't have any insight I'm just looking at a top 8 offense kind of quarterback who looks better now than he did in 2018.
Competition/schedule is easier. Expectations are lower since the missed the postseason last year. For the OC position, they fired DeFilipo last year and had some success with the interm OC, Stefanski. Stefanski is now their OC full time.
Kubiak is an assistant coach.
I know what you mean, but in this case Kubes was the play caller for two terrible broncos offenses
He is not the OC or the QB coach in minny
So I sort of agree with king......... just without the extreme anti Kubes vitriol
I don't have vitriol towards GK. Now TS and Keenum, oh baby!
It is kind of strange how anything positive that happens around Kubiak is to somebody else's credit, while any negatives reside solely on his shoulders.
Yeah, like when his team won a SB with his great offe...
Or when the Vikings offense is sporting great QB production sin...last year...and how the OC then and now should give him cre...
If anything I'm simply giving credit in more appropriate places.
Our offenses sucked with him and he put PFM out of the shotgun and into the Pistol.
Then he goes to a team with a productive QB and somehow as an assistant coach, not even the OC, he's supposed to get the credit?
No. I won't stand for such foolery.
Shazam!
11-25-2019, 04:49 PM
Kubiak isnt just an assistant hes assistant HC... Lets not pretend he doesnt have a big role.
Kubiak isnt just an assistant hes assistant HC... Lets not pretend he doesnt have a big role.
I'm sure he's much more vital to the OC who got a lot out of Cousins last year and this year.
This reeks of working backwards and trying to find a way to give Kubiak credit. If Cousins had always sucked and then Kubiak shows up and there's a change, then sure. But the exact opposite is at play.
If you all want to drool over a guy booted because he wanted his old crew and didn't want to update his offense, go ahead.
Thank god his defensive prowess won us a Supe....dammit that still doesn't work!
Shazam!
11-25-2019, 05:00 PM
Kubiak isnt just an assistant hes assistant HC... Lets not pretend he doesnt have a big role.
I'm sure he's much more vital to the OC who got a lot out of Cousins last year and this year.
This reeks of working backwards and trying to find a way to give Kubiak credit. If Cousins had always sucked and then Kubiak shows up and there's a change, then sure. But the exact opposite is at play.
If you all want to drool over a guy booted because he wanted his old crew and didn't want to update his offense, go ahead.
Thank god his defensive prowess won us a Supe....dammit that still doesn't work!
Your hate him like he did nothing good in Denver for years its weird.
Valar Morghulis
11-25-2019, 05:01 PM
In World War One..... trench warfare was all the rage, we won that bad boy , ergo all future wars must be in trenches
Krugan
11-25-2019, 05:13 PM
I'm sure he's much more vital to the OC who got a lot out of Cousins last year and this year.
This reeks of working backwards and trying to find a way to give Kubiak credit. If Cousins had always sucked and then Kubiak shows up and there's a change, then sure. But the exact opposite is at play.
If you all want to drool over a guy booted because he wanted his old crew and didn't want to update his offense, go ahead.
Thank god his defensive prowess won us a Supe....dammit that still doesn't work!
Just cause im trying to get a grasp on where you are coming from, when did you become a bronco fan?
NightTrainLayne
11-25-2019, 05:15 PM
Yeah, like when his team won a SB with his great offe...
Or when the Vikings offense is sporting great QB production sin...last year...and how the OC then and now should give him cre...
If anything I'm simply giving credit in more appropriate places.
Our offenses sucked with him and he put PFM out of the shotgun and into the Pistol.
Then he goes to a team with a productive QB and somehow as an assistant coach, not even the OC, he's supposed to get the credit?
No. I won't stand for such foolery.
I am reminded of a long-running argument I had at BroncosFreak circa 2007. The argument at the time being that Kubiak did it all, and Shanahan just basked in the glory of Kubiak's hard work. That Kubiak was responsible for all of the game-planning and play-calling (certainly he was the play-caller at the end), and Shanny was just a figurehead. The best evidence of this was how mediocre the Broncos became after Kubiak went to Houston.
I argued that Shanahan deserved more of the credit. That you couldn't just pin all the negative on Shanny, while all positives went to others (in this case Kubiak & Bobby Turner etc.).
I'm not trying to argue Kubiak is the next Bill Belichik. Far from it. He has his weaknesses and warts. But I'm also not going to pretend that the team won Super Bowl 50 in spite of their Head Coach.
Kubiak saved the season with the Oz and PFM calls.
That doesn’t mean he was killing it. And I’m sorry. It’s not hate.
Hawgdriver
11-25-2019, 06:12 PM
Just cause im trying to get a grasp on where you are coming from, when did you become a bronco fan?
How does this have anything to do with the grasp you need on his argument? This seems more like a poke than anything. You've been posting the last three or four years on and off, you should know.
Krugan
11-25-2019, 06:50 PM
How does this have anything to do with the grasp you need on his argument? This seems more like a poke than anything. You've been posting the last three or four years on and off, you should know.
It matters in historical references, your response seems more like a poke then anything else. But by all means assume context as you see fit, as did I.
Ive been a member for 12 years, if you want to get technical. Sensitive people anymore.
Also was asking as he has also been a member for awhile, i wasnt sure when he started rooting here and how versed he was in history with Kubiak. So for my personal understanding it was a legit question...
Shazam!
11-25-2019, 08:03 PM
No one says Kubiak is Bellichick. But anyone hating on Kubes may as well hate Elway Shanahan TD and anyone else. He is Bronco through and through.
To say he was along for the ride in 2015 having nothing to do with this teams success in spite of a broken Manning is delusional.
Hawgdriver
11-25-2019, 08:38 PM
It matters in historical references, your response seems more like a poke then anything else. But by all means assume context as you see fit, as did I.
Ive been a member for 12 years, if you want to get technical. Sensitive people anymore.
Also was asking as he has also been a member for awhile, i wasnt sure when he started rooting here and how versed he was in history with Kubiak. So for my personal understanding it was a legit question...
In that case I hope you accept my apology for being a complete jerk!
Shazam!
11-26-2019, 05:24 AM
Yeah, like when his team won a SB with his great offe...
Or when the Vikings offense is sporting great QB production sin...last year...and how the OC then and now should give him cre...
If anything I'm simply giving credit in more appropriate places.
Our offenses sucked with him and he put PFM out of the shotgun and into the Pistol.
Then he goes to a team with a productive QB and somehow as an assistant coach, not even the OC, he's supposed to get the credit?
No. I won't stand for such foolery.
I am reminded of a long-running argument I had at BroncosFreak circa 2007. The argument at the time being that Kubiak did it all, and Shanahan just basked in the glory of Kubiak's hard work. That Kubiak was responsible for all of the game-planning and play-calling (certainly he was the play-caller at the end), and Shanny was just a figurehead. The best evidence of this was how mediocre the Broncos became after Kubiak went to Houston.
I argued that Shanahan deserved more of the credit. That you couldn't just pin all the negative on Shanny, while all positives went to others (in this case Kubiak & Bobby Turner etc.).
I'm not trying to argue Kubiak is the next Bill Belichik. Far from it. He has his weaknesses and warts. But I'm also not going to pretend that the team won Super Bowl 50 in spite of their Head Coach.
When the late Mike Heimerdinger (sp?) replaced Kubiak there was a notable drop in production and changes of the offense. Jake Plummer played his best under his guidance his first 3 years here and his play dropped too
But Kubiak knows nothing about offense or QBs. Nahhhhh...
When the late Mike Heimerdinger (sp?) replaced Kubiak there was a notable drop in production and changes of the offense. Jake Plummer played his best under his guidance his first 3 years here and his play dropped too
But Kubiak knows nothing about offense or QBs. Nahhhhh...
I think Kubiak used to be the man.
No one says Kubiak is Bellichick. But anyone hating on Kubes may as well hate Elway Shanahan TD and anyone else. He is Bronco through and through.
To say he was along for the ride in 2015 having nothing to do with this teams success in spite of a broken Manning is delusional.
What does that have to do with his offensive prowess right now? The offense was awful with Kubiak. As a head coach he was okay, but not when it came to the offense.
This is NOT a hard concept, and honestly it functions as a strawman. It also serves and demonstrates the notion that much of the Kubiak support is rose colored glasses viewing.
After several pages of debate, the point I made has STILL not been touched. You can't credit him offensively as his last stint as HC. You can't credit him for Cousins' success. You can't refute the fact that has been reported by various outlets that he doesn't/wont update his offense, or that he wants to constantly use his old coaches, too.
Shazam!
11-26-2019, 06:58 AM
No one says Kubiak is Bellichick. But anyone hating on Kubes may as well hate Elway Shanahan TD and anyone else. He is Bronco through and through.
To say he was along for the ride in 2015 having nothing to do with this teams success in spite of a broken Manning is delusional.
What does that have to do with his offensive prowess right now? The offense was awful with Kubiak. As a head coach he was okay, but not when it came to the offense.
This is NOT a hard concept, and honestly it functions as a strawman. It also serves and demonstrates the notion that much of the Kubiak support is rose colored glasses viewing.
After several pages of debate, the point I made has STILL not been touched. You can't credit him offensively as his last stint as HC. You can't credit him for Cousins' success. You can't refute the fact that has been reported by various outlets that he doesn't/wont update his offense, or that he wants to constantly use his old coaches, too.
Bro his problem was his hard stance on bringing in his Guys undermining Fangio.
You hating on Kubiak is petty and sounds ridiculous. No one here is calling him a genius.
Bro his problem was his hard stance on bringing in his Guys undermining Fangio.
You hating on Kubiak is petty and sounds ridiculous. No one here is calling him a genius.
How many times can you ignore what was reported? It was more than one thing. I responded to people who wanted Kubiak to come back with reasons why it's good he didn't come back. Moving on from someone who isn't doing the job well isn't wrong, even if you hire someone else who isn't getting the job done. It just means you keep working to find the right guy.
It's not hate. If criticism is hate than we are a soft society.
Shazam!
11-26-2019, 07:15 AM
Bro his problem was his hard stance on bringing in his Guys undermining Fangio.
You hating on Kubiak is petty and sounds ridiculous. No one here is calling him a genius.
How many times can you ignore what was reported? It was more than one thing. I responded to people who wanted Kubiak to come back with reasons why it's good he didn't come back. Moving on from someone who isn't doing the job well isn't wrong, even if you hire someone else who isn't getting the job done. It just means you keep working to find the right guy.
It's not hate. If criticism is hate than we are a soft society.
You're doing the same thing you accuse me of doing. It was primarily a staff issue and his INSISTENCE on Pariani, Dennison and Co. Fang was publicly down with it. But whatever.
You dint go taht far back to have been there when they were winning 97-98 with Gary improving Elways game in his last years. i guess tahts where much of the appreciation for him lies in the ole days. Its not a criticism.
But to say he had nothin to do with 2015 Season is disingenuous at best and a lie at worst.
You're doing the same thing you accuse me of doing. It was primarily a staff issue and his INSISTENCE on Pariani, Dennison and Co. Fang was publicly down with it. But whatever.
You dint go taht far back to have been there when they were winning 97-98 with Gary improving Elways game in his last years. i guess tahts where much of the appreciation for him lies in the ole days. Its not a criticism.
But to say he had nothin to do with 2015 Season is disingenuous at best and a lie at worst.
Okay, so let's walk through this again. The articles post TWO reasons for why he is not back. TWO. One of them is he wants to bring back his old coaches. Which is a problem. Which also speaks to what, what does it speak to when you won't update your staff and want the same old guys who have failed? Think about that. The SECOND reasons, actually the first if we're going in order, but whatever, is what? A reluctance to NOT update his scheme. You can't pick one of the two and act like that's the only reason. I'm sorry, that's not how that works.
I don't care what happened in 97-98. That's ancient history. It doesn't speak to what happens now. If that's the case, **** it, install the old WCO from the 80's with no updates. I'm sure that'll work out great, right?
His contributions in 2015 were not based on his 'offensive playcalling' or prowess. His offenses sucked. We won the SB on defense. We won the SB because Kubiak is a good, if not great, leader of men. He made tough calls on QB's playing. That's not the same thing as running an effective or even decent offense.
What's happening in this thread is people are pointing to either ancient history to support Kubiak, pointing to Minnesota/Cousins playing well even though it has little to do with Kubiak as Cousins was productive before him, for YEARS, and the SB win. None of those things speak to his ability to run a good offense in 2019. The 90's don't matter. Cousins and Minny have been productive offensively before Kubiak, and Kubiak isn't even the OC, and being a head coach with a bad offense and winning with defense doesn't mean you're still a good offensive mind.
Shazam!
11-26-2019, 08:39 AM
You're doing the same thing you accuse me of doing. It was primarily a staff issue and his INSISTENCE on Pariani, Dennison and Co. Fang was publicly down with it. But whatever.
You dint go taht far back to have been there when they were winning 97-98 with Gary improving Elways game in his last years. i guess tahts where much of the appreciation for him lies in the ole days. Its not a criticism.
But to say he had nothin to do with 2015 Season is disingenuous at best and a lie at worst.
Okay, so let's walk through this again. The articles post TWO reasons for why he is not back. TWO. One of them is he wants to bring back his old coaches. Which is a problem. Which also speaks to what, what does it speak to when you won't update your staff and want the same old guys who have failed? Think about that. The SECOND reasons, actually the first if we're going in order, but whatever, is what? A reluctance to NOT update his scheme. You can't pick one of the two and act like that's the only reason. I'm sorry, that's not how that works.
I don't care what happened in 97-98. That's ancient history. It doesn't speak to what happens now. If that's the case, **** it, install the old WCO from the 80's with no updates. I'm sure that'll work out great, right?
His contributions in 2015 were not based on his 'offensive playcalling' or prowess. His offenses sucked. We won the SB on defense. We won the SB because Kubiak is a good, if not great, leader of men. He made tough calls on QB's playing. That's not the same thing as running an effective or even decent offense.
What's happening in this thread is people are pointing to either ancient history to support Kubiak, pointing to Minnesota/Cousins playing well even though it has little to do with Kubiak as Cousins was productive before him, for YEARS, and the SB win. None of those things speak to his ability to run a good offense in 2019. The 90's don't matter. Cousins and Minny have been productive offensively before Kubiak, and Kubiak isn't even the OC, and being a head coach with a bad offense and winning with defense doesn't mean you're still a good offensive mind.
Youre talking like he is a consultant or quality control. He is Asst HC and if you think he isnt directly involved in game planning and running the offense, of course he is. We saw it like last week in the box.
Your hate of him is totally irrational. Look at the Broncos offense. Has hit rock ****in bottom. Kubiak here couldnt possibly be WORSE.
Youre talking like he is a consultant or quality control. He is Asst HC and if you think he isnt directly involved in game planning and running the offense, of course he is. We saw it like last week in the box.
Your hate of him is totally irrational. Look at the Broncos offense. Has hit rock ****in bottom. Kubiak here couldnt possibly be WORSE.
He's an assistant coach. He's not even the OC. I'm sure he does something. But you really need to acknowledge the fact that he didn't come in and fix Kirk Cousins. Kirk Cousins, if nothing else, has always been a productive QB. This notion that "omfg the savior of the Vikings is Kubiak and his offensive prowess," is based on nothing but his name.
I don't hate him. I don't understand why people conflate hate with criticism.
"I attack ideas not people," Justice Scalia. I'm attacking your idea of Kubiak as a guy who would fix our woes. Sure, he might be better than what we have, but that doesn't mean he's right for the job.
Shazam!
11-26-2019, 09:51 AM
Youre talking like he is a consultant or quality control. He is Asst HC and if you think he isnt directly involved in game planning and running the offense, of course he is. We saw it like last week in the box.
Your hate of him is totally irrational. Look at the Broncos offense. Has hit rock ****in bottom. Kubiak here couldnt possibly be WORSE.
He's an assistant coach. He's not even the OC. I'm sure he does something. But you really need to acknowledge the fact that he didn't come in and fix Kirk Cousins. Kirk Cousins, if nothing else, has always been a productive QB. This notion that "omfg the savior of the Vikings is Kubiak and his offensive prowess," is based on nothing but his name.
I don't hate him. I don't understand why people conflate hate with criticism.
"I attack ideas not people," Justice Scalia. I'm attacking your idea of Kubiak as a guy who would fix our woes. Sure, he might be better than what we have, but that doesn't mean he's right for the job.
...because your criticism is unwarranted THATS why. All he did here was Win.
Minny offense is higher than any point statistically in every category. So is Cousins.
And youre not a Judge either lol
...because your criticism is unwarranted THATS why. All he did here was Win.
And youre not a Judge either.
No, my criticism is based on fact.
I know I'm not a judge. The quote was applicable to what is happening here because you said I hate him.
Northman
11-26-2019, 09:54 AM
Kubiak had his flaws, i think he was always a better OC than HC but thats just a random opinion. Glad he got a SB ring but that was also on the back of a alltime great defense which is a rarity.
Shazam!
11-26-2019, 09:54 AM
...because your criticism is unwarranted THATS why. All he did here was Win.
And youre not a Judge either.
No, my criticism is based on fact.
I know I'm not a judge. The quote was applicable to what is happening here because you said I hate him.
Hate is strong. How about disdain?
Hate is strong. How about disdain?
No. I have disdain for bad people. I don't even has disdain for Vance Jospeh. I just thought he was a bad coach.
I think Kubiak is an average HC with some pluses to his category. I think at one point in time he was one of, if not, the best offensive minds running. That time is now in the past. I'm critical of him. I think he's a pretty flawed offensive mind these days. Based on the aforementioned arguments I've presented in this thread, based on the facts I've presented in this thread.
BroncoJoe
11-26-2019, 10:28 AM
Neither of you are going to back down, so just S.T.F.U. already.
BroncoJoe
11-26-2019, 10:47 AM
King, how do you explain the fact (since you like to bring that word up...) that the Vikings were ranked 19th in points scored last year compared to 8th this year? Yards and other stats are fine, but scoring points is FAR better.
Read Kubiak's bio here:
https://www.vikings.com/team/coaches-roster/gary-kubiak
King, how do you explain the fact (since you like to bring that word up...) that the Vikings were ranked 19th in points scored last year compared to 8th this year? Yards and other stats are fine, but scoring points is FAR better.
Read Kubiak's bio here:
https://www.vikings.com/team/coaches-roster/gary-kubiak
You should have read earlier in the thread as that was explained. Easier schedule, stable coordinator having an entire year. Why would a guy who isn't even a coordinator get credit for that? Because he turned up the next year? It's not because, I don't know, the offensive line is healthier? The health of Cook?
I want the justification of Kubiak being responsible. Defend the assumption.
I know what his bio is, Joe.
aberdien
11-26-2019, 11:23 AM
I don’t want him to be my coach anymore, but to not give him any credit at all for Minnesota is silly.
Northman
11-26-2019, 11:24 AM
King, how do you explain the fact (since you like to bring that word up...) that the Vikings were ranked 19th in points scored last year compared to 8th this year? Yards and other stats are fine, but scoring points is FAR better.
Read Kubiak's bio here:
https://www.vikings.com/team/coaches-roster/gary-kubiak
You should have read earlier in the thread as that was explained. Easier schedule, stable coordinator having an entire year. Why would a guy who isn't even a coordinator get credit for that? Because he turned up the next year? It's not because, I don't know, the offensive line is healthier? The health of Cook?
I want the justification of Kubiak being responsible. Defend the assumption.
I know what his bio is, Joe.
Great arguments by both of you.
Valar Morghulis
11-26-2019, 11:26 AM
King, how do you explain the fact (since you like to bring that word up...) that the Vikings were ranked 19th in points scored last year compared to 8th this year? Yards and other stats are fine, but scoring points is FAR better.
Read Kubiak's bio here:
https://www.vikings.com/team/coaches-roster/gary-kubiak
Dalvin cook
Simple Jaded
11-26-2019, 03:32 PM
The OC is calling plays in Minnesota.
NightTrainLayne
11-26-2019, 03:44 PM
Vikings head coach Mike Zimmer on hiring Kubiak: "It’s probably the best thing that’s ever happened to me since I’ve been here." (https://www.vikings.com/news/vikings-gary-kubiak-impact-on-offense-has-been-felt-all-over)
Simple Jaded
11-26-2019, 03:57 PM
Vikings head coach Mike Zimmer on hiring Kubiak: "It’s probably the best thing that’s ever happened to me since I’ve been here." (https://www.vikings.com/news/vikings-gary-kubiak-impact-on-offense-has-been-felt-all-over)
Good news is this means it’ll be harder for Elway to bring him and his Ty Sambrailo’s back when Skank is fired.
Vikings head coach Mike Zimmer on hiring Kubiak: "It’s probably the best thing that’s ever happened to me since I’ve been here." (https://www.vikings.com/news/vikings-gary-kubiak-impact-on-offense-has-been-felt-all-over)
I would expect him to post something like "man what a ******* stiff, I lost a bet and hired him."
It's not the second year of a system, or OC continuity, or an elite RB being healthy, or the OL having more continuity, or an easier schedule, or a productive QB...it's Kubiak!
NightTrainLayne
11-26-2019, 04:37 PM
I would expect him to post something like "man what a ******* stiff, I lost a bet and hired him."
It's not the second year of a system, or OC continuity, or an elite RB being healthy, or the OL having more continuity, or an easier schedule, or a productive QB...it's Kubiak!
Right. Kubiak can't possibly have a positive impact anywhere around him. I get it.
Cugel
11-26-2019, 04:48 PM
Good news is this means it’ll be harder for Elway to bring him and his Ty Sambrailo’s back when Skank is fired.
Ain't no way he wants to come back now. That ship sailed.
Right. Kubiak can't possibly have a positive impact anywhere around him. I get it.
I'm simply asking for what the link is between him and the offense. I've offered far more direct evidence towards the improved offense, albeit one that has only improved, to paraphrase Joe, in redzone offense.
It's not my fault the Kubiak Krew cannot substantiate their claims. Nor is it my fault that the Kubiak Krew is apparently in denial that Kubiak was let go for two reasons: first and most importantly, he wouldn't update his offense; secondly, he wanted to bring his bad coaches back for one last ride. Neither one of those things speaks well of him in 2019. Because the claim is that it's bad that we don't have Kubiak, made by Shazam and possibly others, I can only point to this evidence, as well as the refutation of the claims about Kubiak in MN because, well, there's nothing to support the claim.
Logic and reason have to matter. Going "hey Kubiak coaches at a place with a good offense," and giving him a lot of credit, when he's not even the OC there, makes no sense. Especially within the context that MN has. I'm sure Kubiak can help out with consulting, and clock management, and even challenges. But I'm talking about offense.
The claims in Kubiak's favor aren't tailored to reality, nor the situation.
In short, it's not my fault you're all at fault.
But I love all of you.
Simple Jaded
11-26-2019, 04:53 PM
Ain't no way he wants to come back now. That ship sailed.
Let’s hope so.
Simple Jaded
11-26-2019, 04:55 PM
I’d take Kubes right here/right now if I get to pick his players.
I’d take Kubes right here/right now if I get to pick his players.
Kubes will not abide. Kubes demands his OL coach have a big say regarding OL.
Shazam!
11-26-2019, 04:57 PM
Right. Kubiak can't possibly have a positive impact anywhere around him. I get it.
I'm simply asking for what the link is between him and the offense. I've offered far more direct evidence towards the improved offense, albeit one that has only improved, to paraphrase Joe, in redzone offense.
It's not my fault the Kubiak Krew cannot substantiate their claims. Nor is it my fault that the Kubiak Krew is apparently in denial that Kubiak was let go for two reasons: first and most importantly, he wouldn't update his offense; secondly, he wanted to bring his bad coaches back for one last ride. Neither one of those things speaks well of him in 2019. Because the claim is that it's bad that we don't have Kubiak, made by Shazam and possibly others, I can only point to this evidence, as well as the refutation of the claims about Kubiak in MN because, well, there's nothing to support the claim.
Logic and reason have to matter. Going "hey Kubiak coaches at a place with a good offense," and giving him a lot of credit, when he's not even the OC there, makes no sense. Especially within the context that MN has. I'm sure Kubiak can help out with consulting, and clock management, and even challenges. But I'm talking about offense.
The claims in Kubiak's favor aren't tailored to reality, nor the situation.
In short, it's not my fault you're all at fault.
But I love all of you.
Youre so off on this issue its not even funny. But whatever.
Valar Morghulis
11-26-2019, 04:57 PM
I’d take Kubes right here/right now if I get to pick his players.
I am sure elway would go for that, he’s been trying to get you in the scouting department for some time
Youre so off on this issue its not even funny. But whatever.
Don't dwell in the past.
NightTrainLayne
11-26-2019, 05:00 PM
The claims in Kubiak's favor aren't tailored to reality, nor the situation.
I haven't made any claims not rooted in reality. I can't speak for others. I only came into this discussion when I felt that you were going way overboard in your criticism of Kubiak. Probably some of that was hyperbole, and I should have just ignored it as such.
I didn't whine or cry or lose any sleep when we parted ways with Kubiak. I think it was for the better.
But I'm not going to pretend that he's not a tremendous coach with a lot of talent for leading NFL players. You can do a lot worse in hiring coaches in the NFL than Gary Kubiak to say the least. He's be the best head coach the Broncos have had in over 10 years. Better than Fox, better than VJ, better than McDaniels. Jury's still out on Fangio, but I suspect you'd rank him higher than Fangio based on your posts and arguments.
Simple Jaded
11-26-2019, 05:01 PM
I am sure elway would go for that, he’s been trying to get you in the scouting department for some time
My schedule just popped wide open, I should have my people contact his people.
Valar Morghulis
11-26-2019, 05:02 PM
My schedule just popped wide open, I should have my people contact his people.
I wouldn’t sweat it, they will be in touch.
Your post was like a bat signal
I haven't made any claims not rooted in reality. I can't speak for others. I only came into this discussion when I felt that you were going way overboard in your criticism of Kubiak.
I didn't whine or cry or lose any sleep when we parted ways with Kubiak. I think it was for the better.
But I'm not going to pretend that he's not a tremendous coach with a lot of talent for leading NFL players. You can do a lot worse in hiring coaches in the NFL than Gary Kubiak to say the least. He's be the best coach the Broncos have had in over 10 years. Better than Fox, better than VJ, better than McDaniels. Jury's still out on Fangio, but I suspect you'd rank him higher than Fangio based on your posts and arguments.
I couldn't have gone overboard. What I was saying was based on truth. His best merits these days are more suited for HC than OC/playcaller.
When your OC, or potential OC, balks at updating his offense, and balks at not having his coaches, failed ones at that, you have big issues. Those two reasons in and of itself are good reason to not want him as your OC.
The conflation of the issue with HC and OC confuses the issue further.
But I clearly take this as a message that NTL now hates me, and wants me to die. ;)
Simple Jaded
11-26-2019, 05:03 PM
Kubes will not abide. Kubes demands his OL coach have a big say regarding OL.
**** him.
Simple Jaded
11-26-2019, 05:04 PM
Oh snap!
He can’t judge talent ... period. Dennison is his Slowik.
Valar Morghulis
11-26-2019, 05:06 PM
Dennison is his Slowik.
Oh man this is sooooooo accurate in my view
He can’t judge talent ... period. Dennison is his Slowik.
Why do you think Kubiak loves QB's like Keenum? I think he sees himself in them.
Simple Jaded
11-26-2019, 05:12 PM
I love Kubes but we’re getting carried away with nostalgia, his ego is always getting in the way. Just like Shanatan, they think their system is the real talent ... it’s not.
The stretch zone isn’t a “system”, btw, get over yourself Kubes. His best work lately is in Minn and B-more where the GM makes the personnel decisions. I think we can all agree his offense didn’t win shit in ‘15 to ‘17. And if PFM doesn’t fit your system then the problem is your system.
Simple Jaded
11-26-2019, 05:12 PM
Why do you think Kubiak loves QB's like Keenum? I think he sees himself in them.
Ego, he thinks the system is the talent.
Simple Jaded
11-26-2019, 05:15 PM
That’s always been an issue for me, ever since Shanatan/Griese ... fool me once/shame on you.
If Skank stands up and says “I really like this Brent Rypien” I would fire him on the spot.
Valar Morghulis
11-26-2019, 05:16 PM
That’s always been an issue for me, ever since Shanatan/Griese ... fool me once/shame on you.
If Skank stands up and says “I really like this Brent Rypien” I would fire him on the spot.
You mean case rypien
Simple Jaded
11-26-2019, 05:16 PM
You mean case rypien
Yes, Trevor Keesum.
https://www.vikings.com/news/gary-kubiak-role-with-minnesota-vikings
They show Kubiak some love in the article, obviously. But read this and tell me what screams "Kubiak is the reason the Vikings are great again?"
In short, Kubiak said it’s his job to be a sounding board for Stefanski, who is entering his first full season as an offensive coordinator. It was revealed Thursday that Stefanski will call plays from the sideline on game days while Kubiak will offer a bigger perspective from the booth.
The argument is over.
Simple Jaded
11-26-2019, 05:17 PM
This is why Kubiak can’t have personnel input, he’s in over his head.
NightTrainLayne
11-26-2019, 05:19 PM
Good Lord. I don't even want to be in the argument, but jeez.
Kubiak is far from perfect.
But are you guys really going to try to argue that Kubiak's biggest problem is his ego? Really? That's just patently ridiculous.
I'm done. I'm not vested enough to worry about it, and I'm sure not changing your mind.
This is why Kubiak can’t have personnel input, he’s in over his head.
Real talk - if there was a HoF for assistant coaches, his work earlier in his career would make him a no-brainer for inclusion. He was the mother ******* man.
NightTrainLayne
11-26-2019, 05:20 PM
https://www.vikings.com/news/gary-kubiak-role-with-minnesota-vikings
They show Kubiak some love in the article, obviously. But read this and tell me what screams "Kubiak is the reason the Vikings are great again?"
In short, Kubiak said it’s his job to be a sounding board for Stefanski, who is entering his first full season as an offensive coordinator. It was revealed Thursday that Stefanski will call plays from the sideline on game days while Kubiak will offer a bigger perspective from the booth.
The argument is over.
Wow! Look at his EGO! He can't get out of his own big head's way!
Good Lord. I don't even want to be in the argument, but jeez.
Kubiak is far from perfect.
But are you guys really going to try to argue that Kubiak's biggest problem is his ego? Really? That's just patently ridiculous.
I'm done. I'm not vested enough to worry about it, and I'm sure not changing your mind.
Earlier I laid out arguments that haven't been rebutted, let alone refuted. It was that old school King...a throwback to when I wasn't a useless POS.
Now you begrudge Jaded's hyperbole while pointing out a flaw in Kubiak? I've left it mostly tailored to him as an OC in modern times.
You're just not being fun or reasonable right now!
Valar Morghulis
11-26-2019, 05:21 PM
Real talk - if there was a HoF for assistant coaches, his work earlier in his career would make him a no-brainer for inclusion. He was the mother ******* man.
He should get in for the way he turned the vikes around
Wow! Look at his EGO! He can't get out of his own big head's way!
Now this is the NTL I know and love.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.4 Release Candidate 2 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.