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aberdien
10-22-2019, 07:50 PM
What should be done with him?

BroncoWave
10-22-2019, 07:53 PM
If he directs the coaches to play Lock as soon as he's eligible and he deals Harris and admits a rebuild, I'd give him one more chance to right things. If we stick with Flacco and he stubbornly acts like we're still trying to win now, I'm done with him.

I hated pretty much all his comments today though, and I'm not all that confident he'll do any of those things I listed. It's hard to admit, but it really might be just about time for him to go.

BroncoWave
10-22-2019, 07:56 PM
So I guess I'm somewhere between options 2 and 3 right now but inching ever so close to the first one.

Buff
10-22-2019, 08:00 PM
The question is: Does Joe Ellis even have the power to fire Elway? With no owner in place, it's not totally clear. I think Ellis will be really slow to fire Elway given SB50 and given Bowlen hand-picked Elway to have that job...

Also, hypothetically speaking, if Ellis did fire Elway - do we trust him to pick the next guy? I assume they'd form some GM hiring committee of old time league insiders who Ellis is connected to, Tom Coughlin/Gary Kubiak types, to tell them who to hire next. I don't love that scenario either.

I think the job is probably his at least until the ownership situation is resolved or until he decides to step down.

BroncoWave
10-22-2019, 08:06 PM
Unfortunately, it seems like Elway is a dinosaur stuck in the past as to how football was in the 80s and 90s, got lucky having Manning fall into his lap, and now is refusing to adapt. I'd love to hire an analytically driven GM, get a young coach off the Reid/Peterson tree, and move into the future. We're basically going to be stuck trying dinosaur football as long as Elway is here I fear.

Poet
10-22-2019, 08:16 PM
Unfortunately, it seems like Elway is a dinosaur stuck in the past as to how football was in the 80s and 90s, got lucky having Manning fall into his lap, and now is refusing to adapt. I'd love to hire an analytically driven GM, get a young coach off the Reid/Peterson tree, and move into the future. We're basically going to be stuck trying dinosaur football as long as Elway is here I fear.

Yep.

Simple Jaded
10-22-2019, 08:40 PM
They hired Scangarello because he wa going to bring Shanny Jr updated WCO, if Elway is stuck in the 80’s and 90’s it’s because of the notion that 8-8 is an improvement in any way/shape/form.

Northman
10-22-2019, 08:44 PM
If he directs the coaches to play Lock as soon as he's eligible and he deals Harris and admits a rebuild, I'd give him one more chance to right things. If we stick with Flacco and he stubbornly acts like we're still trying to win now, I'm done with him.

I hated pretty much all his comments today though, and I'm not all that confident he'll do any of those things I listed. It's hard to admit, but it really might be just about time for him to go.

Basically this, if John is serious about rebuilding finally instead of patchwork BS than ill give him a couple of more years. But if he is going to continue to say we are a playoff team,etc than its time for him to step down.

Poet
10-22-2019, 08:48 PM
They hired Scangarello because he wa going to bring Shanny Jr updated WCO, if Elway is stuck in the 80’s and 90’s it’s because of the notion that 8-8 is an improvement in any way/shape/form.

Crazy how the Niners, outside of their QB, have one or two players on offense that anyone knows.

UnderArmour
10-22-2019, 08:53 PM
Unfortunately, it seems like Elway is a dinosaur stuck in the past as to how football was in the 80s and 90s, got lucky having Manning fall into his lap, and now is refusing to adapt. I'd love to hire an analytically driven GM, get a young coach off the Reid/Peterson tree, and move into the future. We're basically going to be stuck trying dinosaur football as long as Elway is here I fear.

Maybe, but I don't feel the grass is always greener. Those coaching trees come with their issues too. Analytic GMs have their failures too. There is a balance.

While these are hard times, Elway has notched 2 respectable drafts in a row. This is a GM that is growing, and one who has excelled with great draft position. This is quite possibly the WORST time to fire Elway.

I'm willing to give this coaching staff and Elway 2 seasons. If they don't make the playoffs next season, Elway and Fangio both should be fired.

BroncoWave
10-22-2019, 08:55 PM
Maybe, but I don't feel the grass is always greener. Those coaching trees come with their issues too. Analytic GMs have their failures too. There is a balance.

While these are hard times, Elway has notched 2 respectable drafts in a row. This is a GM that is growing, and one who has excelled with great draft position. This is quite possibly the WORST time to fire Elway.

I'm willing to give this coaching staff and Elway 2 seasons. If they don't make the playoffs next season, Elway and Fangio both should be fired.

I'm willing to give Elway more time IF he fully commits to a rebuild. If we're trotting Flacco out the rest of this year and into the next, then bye bye Elway.

Hawgdriver
10-22-2019, 08:57 PM
Elway is a Broncos hero, but we need someone without a high likelihood of CTE/ALS symptoms (& the accompanying self-medication of the personality type) to guide the ship.

Maybe too harsh, but someone needs to say it--even if it's not 100% provable.

Love the dude. Concerned about the ship.

Results are in--Elway, minus Manning, after ten years is measurably a failure. You have to give him credit for the Manning years though.

Given the jacked up ownership situation, I hope he pulls it together. Like Buff said--given this trust structure, what's the alternative?

Poet
10-22-2019, 08:57 PM
Maybe, but I don't feel the grass is always greener. Those coaching trees come with their issues too. Analytic GMs have their failures too. There is a balance.

While these are hard times, Elway has notched 2 respectable drafts in a row. This is a GM that is growing, and one who has excelled with great draft position. This is quite possibly the WORST time to fire Elway.

I'm willing to give this coaching staff and Elway 2 seasons. If they don't make the playoffs next season, Elway and Fangio both should be fired.

You called the Flacco trade months before it happened. I thought it was insane, because it would likely be miserable. But you nailed down the thinking of JE, because you're smart as all hell. You called the shot....like a boss.

We got Flacco, and it's been miserable. What's more miserable is the restructure of Flacco's contract. We're basically married to him at this point. How is that, in and of itself, not firable given the futility before? Yeah, Elway is getting better, but does that mean his past drafts don't count? Some of the players we drafted that we thought were going to be studs from those classes haven't panned out, either.

underrated29
10-22-2019, 10:23 PM
Unfortunately, it seems like Elway is a dinosaur stuck in the past as to how football was in the 80s and 90s, got lucky having Manning fall into his lap, and now is refusing to adapt. I'd love to hire an analytically driven GM, get a young coach off the Reid/Peterson tree, and move into the future. We're basically going to be stuck trying dinosaur football as long as Elway is here I fear.

I hate this argument. Lucky? Lucky? Like 3 teams wanted manning first of all. Have the people here thought he was done.

Next- elway literally went out and built the best offense the NFL has Ever seen!!! It got them to the sb but blown out.
When manning and the offense didnt work he went out and built one of the best defenses the NFL has ever seen literally after the following year.

That is not lucky. That is not even close to lucky and manning had NOTHING to do with the second part. That is a lazy argument people post because they seem to think every team just magically moves on from a HOF qb within 3 years.


Luck has nothing to do with it. That was all Elway the whole time. 100%. And not debatable.

The colts never had the best offense in nfl history. The colts never had one of the best defenses in nfl history. So dont retort with free agents coming here for peyton. Also another false and lazy argument.

underrated29
10-22-2019, 10:26 PM
As for Elway being gone. If we go into next season without a top qb from this draft or without knowing what we have in lock, then I will start that way myself. For now, we may have our qb. If so, then we know what Elway can build and quickly.

Lock this year/high qb draft pick this year will determine how he hangs on....I feel herbert so much and I dont know if I want him.

Poet
10-22-2019, 10:30 PM
I hate this argument. Lucky? Lucky? Like 3 teams wanted manning first of all. Have the people here thought he was done.

Next- elway literally went out and built the best offense the NFL has Ever seen!!! It got them to the sb but blown out.
When manning and the offense didnt work he went out and built one of the best defenses the NFL has ever seen literally after the following year.

That is not lucky. That is not even close to lucky and manning had NOTHING to do with the second part. That is a lazy argument people post because they seem to think every team just magically moves on from a HOF qb within 3 years.


Luck has nothing to do with it. That was all Elway the whole time. 100%. And not debatable.

The colts never had the best offense in nfl history. The colts never had one of the best defenses in nfl history. So dont retort with free agents coming here for peyton. Also another false and lazy argument.



You said the Colts never once had the best offense ever, but they had PFM when he broke the TD record the first time. So they certainly had one of the absolute best offenses ever. They got blown out in the SB because of what? Manning couldn't throw the deep ball anymore and the Hawks admitted they could cheat on basically everything the offense had to do. John Elway was able to sign all those great defensive players to some nice deals for the team BECAUSE of PFM. You're not getting all those guys without PM because those guys wanted a ring. If you can't see the link between those FA signings and Manning, since Manning left when was the last time a FA gave us a discount? It's not a lazy argument so much as it's one that accounts for what happens. So sure, give JFE credit for landing Manning, but he didn't do shit after Manning.

I'm so ******* tired of sacred cows. If that GM's last name wasn't Elway so much slack wouldn't have been given. So until John can land another Hall of Famer at QB, or build a great defense without a stud QB to be a FA attraction, Wave's point stands.

Magnificent Seven
10-22-2019, 10:51 PM
I think they should fire Joel Ellis. John Elway takes over Ellis' place. Then, hire a solid GM.

dogfish
10-23-2019, 12:12 AM
Maybe, but I don't feel the grass is always greener. Those coaching trees come with their issues too. Analytic GMs have their failures too. There is a balance.

While these are hard times, Elway has notched 2 respectable drafts in a row. This is a GM that is growing, and one who has excelled with great draft position. This is quite possibly the WORST time to fire Elway.

I'm willing to give this coaching staff and Elway 2 seasons. If they don't make the playoffs next season, Elway and Fangio both should be fired.

this is sort of where i'm at. . . i don't love changing personnel and plans all the time-- continuity is extremely valuable in an organization. . . and given the ownership situation, our ability to land a top flight candidate is a legitimate concern. . . IF he can continue to draft well, then it's likely preferable to keep him in place for the moment than to go with a complete unknown, hired by ellis. . . i'd rather give elway and fangio at least one more off-season to build it, get it going in the right direction. . . they need to get munchak a workable left tackle, for one thing-- just that alone will make the offense a lot less dysfunctional. . . we're likely to be picking in the top 10-12 range next year-- maybe higher if things continue to go south. . . we're already acquiring a fat stack of extra picks, and we may get more before the deadline. . . we can also clear out a ton of cap space next year. . . that gives them every opportunity to make some serious improvements. . . ideally, i'd love for elway to stick around and see if he finally found us a real QB in lock. . .

buuuut. . . that will obviously require him to play lock. . . if he truly intends to start joe sacko again next year, then that's a gamechanger. . . there's simply ZERO upside in playing joe any further. . . you have to give yourself a chance to be competitive-- joe's not that guy anymore. . . at the game's most important position, they simply must have a better plan than these washed-up vets and journeymen. . . if flacco's the plan, that effectively means there IS no plan. . . no sober, effective plan. . .

if that's the case, then as far as i'm concerned, the franchise should move on at once. . . ellis can request assistance from the league office on putting together an advisory committee that isn't build on broncos "family", aka mike shanahan and ted sundquist. . . i will take my chances with that approach rather than roll with john any longer, if he's not freakin' serious about finding a quarterback, and building a modern offense. . .

Valar Morghulis
10-23-2019, 01:32 AM
From McDaniels to two Super Bowl appearances and the best offense and the best defense in history

He has earned at least another year

Totally acknowledge flacco and keenum and VJ are/were utter disasters and even I could see that as soon as they signed

Finding a successor to PFM has been hard, at least his efforts to find a qbotf have only tied us to those qbs for a maximum of 2 years

I just think we have been spoiled as broncos fans

Elevation inc
10-23-2019, 01:35 AM
Bringng Flacco in is where I first started to lean towards the mantra Elway may be done as a GM, Watching him spin the narrative about Flacco to the fan base then watching him restructure said QB, had me leaning more towards its time to move on and listening to his comments after getting embarrassed on national TV and having the starting QB pretty much quit on the team, Really makes me think his time is done. I love Elway I really do, but Its mind blowing how dense he is being right now.

Valar Morghulis
10-23-2019, 01:42 AM
Yeah flacco was obviously a terrible move, made infinitely worse by the contract restructure

Simple Jaded
10-23-2019, 04:01 AM
What does “IDFK” stand for?

Elevation inc
10-23-2019, 05:38 AM
What does “IDFK” stand for?

...I think it's I Don't f'in Know....

BroncoWave
10-23-2019, 05:53 AM
I hate this argument. Lucky? Lucky? Like 3 teams wanted manning first of all. Have the people here thought he was done.

Next- elway literally went out and built the best offense the NFL has Ever seen!!! It got them to the sb but blown out.
When manning and the offense didnt work he went out and built one of the best defenses the NFL has ever seen literally after the following year.

That is not lucky. That is not even close to lucky and manning had NOTHING to do with the second part. That is a lazy argument people post because they seem to think every team just magically moves on from a HOF qb within 3 years.


Luck has nothing to do with it. That was all Elway the whole time. 100%. And not debatable.

The colts never had the best offense in nfl history. The colts never had one of the best defenses in nfl history. So dont retort with free agents coming here for peyton. Also another false and lazy argument.

Yes, Elway did a nice job in closing the deal. He was lucky in that Manning was even available in the first place. But if the only way he's ever going to get good QBs here is if a HoF QB hits the market we're in trouble, because that happens just about never. As for the team he built around Manning yes that was great as well, but he's yet to show that he can get that kind of talent here without a star QB to help attract them.

That was a great run and yes Elway does get a lot of credit for that, but he can't skate by on that forever. He eventually has to do it again.

MasterShake
10-23-2019, 07:34 AM
I don't care at this point. Right now I would just like our coaching staff to be stable for more than a few years and see if we can build something with the personnel that Fangio wants and go from there. Until ownership of this team gets figured out we need stability where we can get it and I think that's a big part of the problem. Looking back its a miracle we won Super Bowl 50 so I will cling to that until we start being competitive again.

Northman
10-23-2019, 09:13 AM
From McDaniels to two Super Bowl appearances and the best offense and the best defense in history

He has earned at least another year

Totally acknowledge flacco and keenum and VJ are/were utter disasters and even I could see that as soon as they signed

Finding a successor to PFM has been hard, at least his efforts to find a qbotf have only tied us to those qbs for a maximum of 2 years

I just think we have been spoiled as broncos fans

I hate when people say this because i really dont think this is the reason for people's frustration the last 4 years. While its true finding the next franchise QB can be difficult its also been pretty telling that Denver doesnt have a very good knack for drafting QB's with promise. Most of the time we are taking guys who are projects and passing on other QB's (and sometimes players) who are rated higher and more NFL ready. But just because Denver has had more success than some other franchises does not mean people are spoiled, i think that is a lazy assumption and not at all objective in what has been going on the last few years.

Northman
10-23-2019, 09:16 AM
I don't care at this point. Right now I would just like our coaching staff to be stable for more than a few years and see if we can build something with the personnel that Fangio wants and go from there. Until ownership of this team gets figured out we need stability where we can get it and I think that's a big part of the problem. Looking back its a miracle we won Super Bowl 50 so I will cling to that until we start being competitive again.

I dont mind trying to stay with a particular coach but i would rather do it with someone who actually looks like they know what they are doing. Some coaches are meant to be HC's and some show why they never were to begin with. VJ and Fangio both look like the type of guys who just dont belong at the HC level to me.

Valar Morghulis
10-23-2019, 09:33 AM
I hate when people say this because i really dont think this is the reason for people's frustration the last 4 years. While its true finding the next franchise QB can be difficult its also been pretty telling that Denver doesnt have a very good knack for drafting QB's with promise. Most of the time we are taking guys who are projects and passing on other QB's (and sometimes players) who are rated higher and more NFL ready. But just because Denver has had more success than some other franchises does not mean people are spoiled, i think that is a lazy assumption and not at all objective in what has been going on the last few years.

I’m not sure if bengals fans won a Superbowl in the last five years and had that winning coach step down due to health concerns, they would be so quick to damn the management

One bad proven hire. VJ

We have fangio 7 games in after picking up a team that was trending down. I think he needs time to prove himself or otherwise

Northman
10-23-2019, 10:03 AM
I’m not sure if bengals fans won a Superbowl in the last five years and had that winning coach step down due to health concerns, they would be so quick to damn the management




It happened to Brian Billick and even Harbaugh has taken heat and both have won a SB.

Valar Morghulis
10-23-2019, 10:17 AM
Fair enough, we can disagree

Northman
10-23-2019, 10:20 AM
Fair enough, we can disagree

I just think that its ok to criticize the moves a team makes without it being "spoiled" as you call it. Do you feel that GB made a mistake in firing McCarthy? I just want to make sure i understand where you are coming from.

Valar Morghulis
10-23-2019, 10:25 AM
I just think that its ok to criticize the moves a team makes without it being "spoiled" as you call it. Do you feel that GB made a mistake in firing McCarthy? I just want to make sure i understand where you are coming from.

McCarthy was there for years and was given time

So I think they made the right call in getting rid of him and I think they made the right call in giving him time

IMO difference was McCarthy was wasting maybe the greatest qb to ever play the game

Valar Morghulis
10-23-2019, 10:26 AM
I just think that its ok to criticize the moves a team makes without it being "spoiled" as you call it.

For the record, so do I

I vocally hated keenum, VJ and flacco

But I’m not advocating for people to lose their jobs just yet, I think elway has earned another year to turn it round

Northman
10-23-2019, 10:28 AM
McCarthy was there for years and was given time

So I think they made the right call in getting rid of him and I think they made the right call in giving him time

IMO difference was McCarthy was wasting maybe the greatest qb to ever play the game

Ok, but its been 5 years since our SB win and we have no real direction whether it be at the coaching level or player level. There isnt any real commitment to anything that we are doing right now. Do you think fans should just suck it up and deal? It would be one thing if it looked like we had a real plan but im just not seeing it.

Buff
10-23-2019, 10:42 AM
I've come off the ledge a tad on Elway's comments yesterday - whether it's realistic or not, he can't throw in the towel on the season until we're mathematically out of contention... So through that lens, his comments on CHJ and Lock make some sense.

If the team is somehow back in wild card contention (which is preposterous because they're terrible) then it would make more sense to bring back Patrick and Theo Riddick from IR than it would to bring back a rookie QB. And obviously you wouldn't trade CHJ if they were in playoff contention.

And it also makes sense on his Sanders comments that he probably felt like Sanders forced his hand and he had to move earlier than he wanted to. Though I'd argue it may end up being a blessing in disguise because the market may have been dry be the time Elway felt comfortable giving up on the season.

Some more here -
https://www.9news.com/article/sports/nfl/denver-broncos/ready-or-not-drew-lock-must-wait/73-dcfd8317-7208-4d9c-83ed-d7b502c725b9

Valar Morghulis
10-23-2019, 10:44 AM
Ok, but its been 5 years since our SB win and we have no real direction whether it be at the coaching level or player level. There isnt any real commitment to anything that we are doing right now. Do you think fans should just suck it up and deal? It would be one thing if it looked like we had a real plan but im just not seeing it.

I think we ****** up bad with VJ

If that one mistake was fixed we would be in a better position right now...... but for me, everything bad is as a result of that one decision

I think fangio is too soon to tell if he is another VJ and if he is, then sure the lack of coach and qb is a problem.... but if lock is the answer and fangio becomes who we thought he was...... then everyone praises elway, and I think he has earned that chance

underrated29
10-23-2019, 10:58 AM
You said the Colts never once had the best offense ever, but they had PFM when he broke the TD record the first time. So they certainly had one of the absolute best offenses ever. They got blown out in the SB because of what? Manning couldn't throw the deep ball anymore and the Hawks admitted they could cheat on basically everything the offense had to do. John Elway was able to sign all those great defensive players to some nice deals for the team BECAUSE of PFM. You're not getting all those guys without PM because those guys wanted a ring. If you can't see the link between those FA signings and Manning, since Manning left when was the last time a FA gave us a discount? It's not a lazy argument so much as it's one that accounts for what happens. So sure, give JFE credit for landing Manning, but he didn't do shit after Manning.

I'm so ******* tired of sacred cows. If that GM's last name wasn't Elway so much slack wouldn't have been given. So until John can land another Hall of Famer at QB, or build a great defense without a stud QB to be a FA attraction, Wave's point stands.




They may hvae had one of the best offenses that year. It was not THE BEST OFFENSE THE NFL HAS EVER SEEN! By like a mile!! What we did will be hard to replicate for a while. As rules change and favor offenses, etc it will happen but not for a long long while.
How we lost in the SB has no bearing on the hawks or Elway. We lost. Elway recognized that and in one fell swoop decided to switch the team from NFL best offense Ever! to NFL all time defense top 5 ever. Most teams do not ever get to say in the HISTORY of the NFL did they have a top 1 offense or a top 5 defense. HISTORICALLY. you can tell me all you want about manning having great offenses as a colt. But it is not even close to what we did and you know it. History knows it. It is not a debatable fact.

Yes, a lot of those guys did come in because of manning. No disagreement. My disagreement is that people argue it was manning that brought in the those guys and made those teams and that is crap. Elway did. Manning had been in the league for like 15 years prior to coming here (I dont know how long he has been in the league). You are telling me all those years that all the free agents did not want to play with manning because he was a colt, but when he was a bronco they changed their mind? NO, Garbagio amigo! It does not fly. It cannot fly. They came here because elway rocked his face off with awesome deals and savvy negotiations.

This point is further proved by the fact that we went out and made a top 5 defense after manning was clearly done. What was it 7tds and 15 ints for manning that year? Yeah, that SB win was not manning. Manning did not build that defense. Manning had no part of it. Manning had never had a defense which is why he lost so many SB and playoffs. Elway did that. Only Elway.

Waves overall point stands and is valid. His contention that it is only because of manning and we lucked into is is not.



Yes, Elway did a nice job in closing the deal. He was lucky in that Manning was even available in the first place. But if the only way he's ever going to get good QBs here is if a HoF QB hits the market we're in trouble, because that happens just about never. As for the team he built around Manning yes that was great as well, but he's yet to show that he can get that kind of talent here without a star QB to help attract them.

That was a great run and yes Elway does get a lot of credit for that, but he can't skate by on that forever. He eventually has to do it again.

I agree he has to do it again.
But finding a QB that is actually starter material is the most difficult thing to do in football. The only time we have ever won a SB or gone to one is when we have one of those QBs. This is why teams suck for years and years....Dolphins, Jets, Bills, 9ers, Browns, Titans, Skins, Rams, Cards, etc etc. Because they dont have one.
This is why these teams are now relevant because they got their QB....Raiders, Cheifs, Browns (lol sorta), Rams, bills, Ravens, packers, pats.


All the good teams have a QB. All the bad teams do not. The middle teams have a QB just good enough to start but not good enough to win. It is a QB league. Finding one is the hardest thing to do. So I will give Elway more than 3 years to find one knowing exactly what he can do with a team when he does! That said, and as I agreed with you, if we do not find out what we have in lock or do not draft a top qb this year (I know its going to be herbert and I am scared to death of that) then we will have big big problems.

BroncoWave
10-23-2019, 11:04 AM
They may hvae had one of the best offenses that year. It was not THE BEST OFFENSE THE NFL HAS EVER SEEN! By like a mile!! What we did will be hard to replicate for a while. As rules change and favor offenses, etc it will happen but not for a long long while.
How we lost in the SB has no bearing on the hawks or Elway. We lost. Elway recognized that and in one fell swoop decided to switch the team from NFL best offense Ever! to NFL all time defense top 5 ever. Most teams do not ever get to say in the HISTORY of the NFL did they have a top 1 offense or a top 5 defense. HISTORICALLY. you can tell me all you want about manning having great offenses as a colt. But it is not even close to what we did and you know it. History knows it. It is not a debatable fact.

Yes, a lot of those guys did come in because of manning. No disagreement. My disagreement is that people argue it was manning that brought in the those guys and made those teams and that is crap. Elway did. Manning had been in the league for like 15 years prior to coming here (I dont know how long he has been in the league). You are telling me all those years that all the free agents did not want to play with manning because he was a colt, but when he was a bronco they changed their mind? NO, Garbagio amigo! It does not fly. It cannot fly. They came here because elway rocked his face off with awesome deals and savvy negotiations.

This point is further proved by the fact that we went out and made a top 5 defense after manning was clearly done. What was it 7tds and 15 ints for manning that year? Yeah, that SB win was not manning. Manning did not build that defense. Manning had no part of it. Manning had never had a defense which is why he lost so many SB and playoffs. Elway did that. Only Elway.

Waves overall point stands and is valid. His contention that it is only because of manning and we lucked into is is not.




I agree he has to do it again.
But finding a QB that is actually starter material is the most difficult thing to do in football. The only time we have ever won a SB or gone to one is when we have one of those QBs. This is why teams suck for years and years....Dolphins, Jets, Bills, 9ers, Browns, Titans, Skins, Rams, Cards, etc etc. Because they dont have one.
This is why these teams are now relevant because they got their QB....Raiders, Cheifs, Browns (lol sorta), Rams, bills, Ravens, packers, pats.


All the good teams have a QB. All the bad teams do not. The middle teams have a QB just good enough to start but not good enough to win. It is a QB league. Finding one is the hardest thing to do. So I will give Elway more than 3 years to find one knowing exactly what he can do with a team when he does! That said, and as I agreed with you, if we do not find out what we have in lock or do not draft a top qb this year (I know its going to be herbert and I am scared to death of that) then we will have big big problems.

My problem with Elway's QB whiffs isn't even that he's missed on several. Like you said, that's the hardest position to hit on and you're gonna miss way more than you hit. My problem is moreso that he seems obsessed with the tall, slow, big armed QBs who were prototypical in the 80s and 90s but not necessarily today. I'd rather he whiff on a Baker/Kyler type QB than keep going to the well with the tall guys. It's becoming as big a meme as Al Davis just drafting the fastest guy who can't do anything else.

underrated29
10-23-2019, 11:05 AM
I think we are all with you there.

Slick
10-23-2019, 11:25 AM
I’m hoping that the fact that Elway traded Sanders means John realizes his team isn’t in “win from now on” mode anymore. It’s the first step in admitting to himself that his team is officially rebuilding. Hopefully Sanders is just the beginning of him dealing vets.

Cugel
10-23-2019, 11:26 AM
If he directs the coaches to play Lock as soon as he's eligible and he deals Harris and admits a rebuild, I'd give him one more chance to right things. If we stick with Flacco and he stubbornly acts like we're still trying to win now, I'm done with him.

I hated pretty much all his comments today though, and I'm not all that confident he'll do any of those things I listed. It's hard to admit, but it really might be just about time for him to go.

I agree with everything you said, except that I have zero confidence that Elway either gets it or ever will get it. His ego demands that his organization be on top - NOW, and he hasn't got the patience to build properly through the draft even though that means a period of perhaps 2 or 3 years where you're NOT "winning now."

The Raiders, the Dolphins, the Jets, the Browns, the Cardinals all are in the process. The 49ers and Rams and Eagles went through it and emerged as solid teams.

When you lose a Hall of Fame QB like Elway or Peyton there is no way to "win now" unless you can draft an Andrew Luck. And the Broncos have never been in position to draft an obvious generational player like him.

So, I fully expect Elway is waiting to see if the Broncos can "turn things around" meaning that they win the next 2 games. Then he can stick to his imbecilic Joe Flacco is "in his prime" B.S. for another season and delay the rebuilding process he hates.

Idiot. There's no way around it. His stubborn denial of reality is just destroying the franchise.

Cugel
10-23-2019, 11:27 AM
Joel Klatt summed it up perfectly this AM on 104.3 the Fan:



"If the ball isn't out in less than 2.5 to 2.75 seconds in this west coast offense, there's a huge problem. And that problem is the QB. Of the eight sacks Flacco suffered Thursday night that were attributable to the offense, virtually every one of those sacks he held the ball for 2.75 seconds. Here's the numbers. 2.71, 2.88, 3.16, 3.27, 3.12, 3.38, 3.03. Here's the problem. He's holding the ball for 3 seconds! You can't do that! You can't even do that in college!" -- Joel Klatt (https://1043thefan.com/category/podcast_player/?a=10029992&sid=1177&n=The+Fan+Interviews)

"This league is built for 8-8. This league is built for NFL purgatory. It's built for teams that think they're good enough, but really aren't. And it plays on that vanity from an organizational perspective, of teams that think "well, we probably could make the playoffs if this or this happens. I tell you, being a wild card team in the NFL outside of a couple of years with teams with elite QBs . [ex: Steelers, Packers]. . I think being a wild card team is one of the worst things you can be. I want A's or I want F's. And I think it would be smart for Denver to start thinking about how do we become an A football team."


They need a franchise QB or any development they do with the rest of the team is completely pointless. And Joe Flacco is just flat not the answer moving forward.

John Elway hasn't admitted it yet because that would raise the question -- "why do you keep making such obvious blunders?" Everybody in the league just assumed that Flacco wasn't good enough -- except in Denver.

If Elway has to admit the Joe Flacco experiment was a disaster, like the Case Keenum experiment was a disaster, like the Paxton Lynch experiment was a disaster, like the Trevor Siemian experiment was a disaster, then who can he point the finger at?

He has to look in the mirror and admit "I just suck at my job." And he just can't do that. It would take an owner willing to pull the plug. Unfortunately for the Broncos there is no owner. Joe Ellis isn't going to fire Elway. We're just stuck in loserville for the foreseeable future. :tsk:

BroncoJoe
10-23-2019, 11:43 AM
Man, at some point, Elway must have stolen cugels lunch money.

Cugel
10-23-2019, 11:47 AM
Man, at some point, Elway must have stolen cugels lunch money.

Yes. This happened 4 times. First it was when he directed Paxton Lynch to dip his hand in my pocket. Then it was Trevor Siemian. Then Case Keesum. Then Joe Flacco. I'm tired of the Broncos taking my money for tickets and merch, having Elway tell me that they're in "win now mode" and putting the kind of product we saw on Thursday night out on the field.

If you're OK with Elway screwing you over, fine. Just keep believing in him. :coffee:

BroncoJoe
10-23-2019, 11:49 AM
Yes. This happened 4 times. First it was when he directed Paxton Lynch to dip his hand in my pocket. Then it was Trevor Siemian. Then Case Keesum. Then Joe Flacco. I'm tired of the Broncos taking my money for tickets and merch, having Elway tell me that they're in "win now mode" and putting the kind of product we saw on Thursday night out on the field.

If you're OK with Elway screwing you over, fine. Just keep believing in him. :coffee:

You poor thing. I feel sorry for you, but not for the reason you think.

Northman
10-23-2019, 12:01 PM
Yes. This happened 4 times. First it was when he directed Paxton Lynch to dip his hand in my pocket. Then it was Trevor Siemian. Then Case Keesum. Then Joe Flacco. I'm tired of the Broncos taking my money for tickets and merch, having Elway tell me that they're in "win now mode" and putting the kind of product we saw on Thursday night out on the field.

If you're OK with Elway screwing you over, fine. Just keep believing in him. :coffee:


That was actually a pretty funny rebuttal. Well done. Lol

BroncoJoe
10-23-2019, 12:32 PM
That was actually a pretty funny rebuttal. Well done. Lol

Eh. I will always have Broncos gear and tickets even if they go 0-16. I'm a fan. While it's OK to be upset with the management/player structure, I'm not one to bash the organization or it's leadership, especially since we won a multiple Superbowls due to one John Elway.

IMO, of course.

Northman
10-23-2019, 12:39 PM
Eh. I will always have Broncos gear and tickets even if they go 0-16. I'm a fan. While it's OK to be upset with the management/player structure, I'm not one to bash the organization or it's leadership, especially since we won a multiple Superbowls due to one John Elway.

IMO, of course.

FTR, i disagree with Cugal on a lot of things Bronco related. I think he is a pretentious **** but that particular comment i found funny regardless. I will always be a Bronco fan but at this moment im just really indifferent to any praise or criticism of the team including John. Part of that is also the abysmal officiating that i feel is sucking my soul and will out of enjoying football on the professional level anymore. So its just a combination of things that has me disgruntled with the NFL these days. Lol

Poet
10-23-2019, 07:02 PM
I’m not sure if bengals fans won a Superbowl in the last five years and had that winning coach step down due to health concerns, they would be so quick to damn the management

One bad proven hire. VJ

We have fangio 7 games in after picking up a team that was trending down. I think he needs time to prove himself or otherwise

But Bengals fans endured decades of losing, and if that owner even won a playoff game Vegas would lose millions.

It's not just one bad hire. It's a horrible hire, a QB carousel, a litany of bad drafts mitigated by two good ones, bungled FA moves, horrid cap decisions, and chronic issues such as OL, ILB, and TE that are never adequately fixed, on top of another hire that appears to be damned, with the only real success coming in a once in a lifetime scenario which allowed for free agents to sign here.

We just have a disagreement as to the scope of the issues, I guess. From your vantage point, if that's how you see it, I think your conclusion is logical.

From my viewpoint or vantage point, I think my conclusion is logical.

Hawgdriver
10-23-2019, 10:00 PM
I hate this argument. Lucky? Lucky? Like 3 teams wanted manning first of all. Have the people here thought he was done.

Next- elway literally went out and built the best offense the NFL has Ever seen!!! It got them to the sb but blown out.
When manning and the offense didnt work he went out and built one of the best defenses the NFL has ever seen literally after the following year.

That is not lucky. That is not even close to lucky and manning had NOTHING to do with the second part. That is a lazy argument people post because they seem to think every team just magically moves on from a HOF qb within 3 years.


Luck has nothing to do with it. That was all Elway the whole time. 100%. And not debatable.

The colts never had the best offense in nfl history. The colts never had one of the best defenses in nfl history. So dont retort with free agents coming here for peyton. Also another false and lazy argument.

PFM win loss before Elway - 75%
PFM win loss after Elway - 75%

ShaneFalco
10-23-2019, 10:17 PM
i dont get some of these comments. Im a Drew Lock fan, i watched every single Miz game, hell im still watching Miz games with kelly bryant as qb.

Drew Lock needs a year to learn the NFL, hell he was still learning to control his footwork back at Miz.

This is why the only real option is to cut flacco, and bring in a vet who actually wants to mentor Drew. The idea that we need to play Drew has long since passed. He should have started all year long if they wanted to use the year to develop him.

People just want to throw him in there and see so they can judge someone who is not ready. So they can then move on to the next QB like Herbert or Tua.

I am not for throwing Lock out there to judge him, if you do it, you do it to develop, not to make a decision on the draft and QBs. If you throw him out there, you give him the entire next year as well.

Otherwise, why did you even draft him? just to bail on him for Tua.

ShaneFalco
10-23-2019, 10:24 PM
oh and for the record with this draft, im not drafting Herbert or Tua. Im taking a tackle, maybe even two if i can. Juwan James is the injury prone guy who fails to play when he is needed, same guy who he was in Miami. Broncos need a LT and a strong backup RT. They also need someone to replace Leary.

dogfish
10-23-2019, 11:31 PM
PFM win loss before Elway - 75%
PFM win loss after Elway - 75%

fine, just go ahead and recklessly break the world with your heretical maths, and stuff!

:laugh:

Northman
10-24-2019, 07:13 AM
i dont get some of these comments. Im a Drew Lock fan, i watched every single Miz game, hell im still watching Miz games with kelly bryant as qb.

Drew Lock needs a year to learn the NFL, hell he was still learning to control his footwork back at Miz.

This is why the only real option is to cut flacco, and bring in a vet who actually wants to mentor Drew. The idea that we need to play Drew has long since passed. He should have started all year long if they wanted to use the year to develop him.

People just want to throw him in there and see so they can judge someone who is not ready. So they can then move on to the next QB like Herbert or Tua.

I am not for throwing Lock out there to judge him, if you do it, you do it to develop, not to make a decision on the draft and QBs. If you throw him out there, you give him the entire next year as well.

Otherwise, why did you even draft him? just to bail on him for Tua.

If Lock is another project than we need to move on to another QB who is more NFL ready. Not sure if i agree with your stance that Lock is a project but that is what you appear to make him sound like. I dont think he can save the season thats not why i want him out there. I want him to get out there so we can see where he is with his other intangibles. We need to see the things that he can do but if he is not ready than we took the wrong QB yet again which is a bad thing.

Cugel
10-24-2019, 09:55 AM
i dont get some of these comments. Im a Drew Lock fan, i watched every single Miz game, hell im still watching Miz games with kelly bryant as qb.

Drew Lock needs a year to learn the NFL, hell he was still learning to control his footwork back at Miz.

This is why the only real option is to cut flacco, and bring in a vet who actually wants to mentor Drew. The idea that we need to play Drew has long since passed. He should have started all year long if they wanted to use the year to develop him.

People just want to throw him in there and see so they can judge someone who is not ready. So they can then move on to the next QB like Herbert or Tua.

I am not for throwing Lock out there to judge him, if you do it, you do it to develop, not to make a decision on the draft and QBs. If you throw him out there, you give him the entire next year as well.

Otherwise, why did you even draft him? just to bail on him for Tua.

I'd agree, but clearly Elway doesn't. He's still barrelling down the "Joe Flacco just needs a few pieces around him and then next year things will be better" track.

He drafted Lock not to start, but to be Brock Osweiler to Flacco's Manning. Unfortunately the fans can see what Elway is too deluded to recognize.

The Flacco train derailed. It crashed and burned. It's a pile of smoking rubble at the bottom of the ravine.

Time for Drew Lock because we recognize that it's either Lock, or else Tua or Fromm or Herbert or somebody else next year. But, Elway flat doesn't believe that.

He doesn't do "rebuilding". For him its always "win-now", thus he refuses to see what everybody else in America saw a long time ago. This team isn't remotely capable of competing in their own division let alone making a Super-Bowl run. And that will absolutely not change as long as Joe Flacco is the Qb.

If he starts Drew Lock after the bye-week @Vikings, fine. If not, then my worst fears about Elway's blindness and arrogance will have been proved.

Cugel
10-24-2019, 09:58 AM
If Lock is another project than we need to move on to another QB who is more NFL ready. Not sure if i agree with your stance that Lock is a project but that is what you appear to make him sound like. I dont think he can save the season thats not why i want him out there. I want him to get out there so we can see where he is with his other intangibles. We need to see the things that he can do but if he is not ready than we took the wrong QB yet again which is a bad thing.

Every fan agrees with this. The need to see what Drew Lock can do is desperate. But, will they do it? Or will we only see Drew Lock for the final home games against the Lions and Raiders, and then Elway will try and screw us again next year with another dose of Joe Flacco? Or will they designate some other player to return from IR and we don't see Lock at all this season?

Why did Elway insist at his presser that they are certain to bring back Tim Patrick but not Drew Lock?

Poet
10-24-2019, 09:59 AM
SF, I agree with you on Lock. I think the only QB I would take in the first round is Tua, and that's because I think he's an elite prospect. Lock is a very, very good prospect. That being said, we should be happy to have a first round talent QB on our team that we got in the second round.

Cugel
10-24-2019, 10:06 AM
SF, I agree with you on Lock. I think the only QB I would take in the first round is Tua, and that's because I think he's an elite prospect. Lock is a very, very good prospect. That being said, we should be happy to have a first round talent QB on our team that we got in the second round.

It's interesting to see Joel Klatt who broadcasts college football arguing that in addition to Tua, he thinks Herbert has the most talent and that he'd include Washington's Jacob Eason to Fromm and Tua and Herbert. He also likes LSU QB Joe Burrow: Joe Burrow now leading Heisman watch (https://buckeyeswire.usatoday.com/2019/10/22/joe-burrow-now-leading-heisman-lsu-ohio-state-football/).

I'd say there are a number of intriguing prospects, if Elway were willing to go in the direction of drafting a QB in the first round. I doubt that he is, but we shall see.

The Glue Factory
10-24-2019, 12:18 PM
SF, I agree with you on Lock. I think the only QB I would take in the first round is Tua, and that's because I think he's an elite prospect. Lock is a very, very good prospect. That being said, we should be happy to have a first round talent QB on our team that we got in the second round.

We've got indications that Lock is not going to flame out. Just why would we take an unknown in Tua? You'd only be trading or releasing one of them which makes little sense; unless we test Lock this year and conclude he's a bum.

Hawgdriver
10-24-2019, 02:02 PM
I just saw this ESPN article by Legwold from a week ago. Worth a glance...

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27853849/for-denver-broncos-john-elway-pressure-real-mounting


Edge rusher Von Miller is now 30 years old and in his ninth season. He was the first draft pick of Elway's tenure and is the only Broncos draftee from 2011 through 2018 on the current roster who has been named to a Pro Bowl. (Running back Phillip Lindsay and cornerback Chris Harris Jr. were undrafted Pro Bowl players.)


Many in the league point to Elway's long-standing relationship with director of player personnel Matt Russell as a potential issue during the post-Super Bowl lull. The Broncos lost two important voices in the personnel department during those years: former director of college scouting Adam Peters to the San Francisco 49ers and Tom Heckert to illness.


Since Manning retired 55 games ago, Joe Flacco is the fifth quarterback to start a game for the Broncos, Rich Scangarello is the fourth offensive coordinator, and Fangio is the third head coach.

"I don't care who you are, what kind of team you had, nobody is getting through that unscathed," one rival general manager said. "Every head coach, every coordinator wants a different kind of player, so you're constantly stocking for the new guy. Can't work, won't work, never has worked.

"And if you miss on the quarterback, you're f---ed. Get all three of those things [wrong], and you have the makings of a problem none of us wants."

Hawgdriver
10-24-2019, 02:12 PM
I wanted to see what y'all thought about this quote in that article above:


Can Elway turn it around?

Barring something unforeseen on or off the field, it's unlikely that the Broncos will ever part with Elway. But if Elway can't make this work, how long will he stick around?

As another longtime associate said: "The guy doesn't need the headache. He's succeeded at everything he does. He doesn't need the money, but he won't walk away without doing everything he can to fix it. Just my opinion, but he knows what's happened -- he does -- and he'll address it, and there is no way he hasn't been harder on himself than any criticism he's gotten anywhere else. People always said, 'Hey, it's Peyton F---ing Manning,' when things got tough. Well, he's been John F---ing Elway for his whole life. This is as important to him as anything can be."

This past weekend, Elway said, "We dug the hole. We got to take it one at a time and dig out."

What do you think this 'longtime associate' means by 'he knows what happened'?

broncofaninfla
10-24-2019, 03:51 PM
I think some of the blame should be directed at Ellis. There's been several choices by Elway that were nixed by Ellis. As for Elway, there was a time people that he was as good of GM as anyone, just three years ago in fact. I have full faith he'll turn things around and return this team to the standard us spoiled fans are used to. Most GM's in the league have their share of right choices and wrong choices, right now the wrong choices are glaring but I have faith that things will swing back and the team will be the Broncos we all want them to be.

NightTrainLayne
10-24-2019, 03:53 PM
I wanted to see what y'all thought about this quote in that article above:



What do you think this 'longtime associate' means by 'he knows what happened'?


He means that Elway can see the problem(s) as well as we can. Hell, he can see them better because he's in the building.

Kubiak's health problem is really the killer imo. It forced us to change coaching staffs just two years after changing coaching staffs. Then. .. .VJ was a mistake. So another coaching change.

If Kubiak stays healthy. .. .well, we'd have a lot more continuity. As it stands we've had way too much turnover in the coaching staff, and the first domino to fall was Kubiak, and that one was nobody's fault. . .it's just the breaks.

dogfish
10-24-2019, 05:12 PM
I wanted to see what y'all thought about this quote in that article above:



What do you think this 'longtime associate' means by 'he knows what happened'?

not entirely sure what to make of it. . . obviously, JFE is aware that VJ was a garbage choice, and he has to understand that we don't have a franchise QB. . . however, if he continues to play flacco once lock is ready to go, i would argue that he does NOT, in fact, "get it". . .

Cugel
10-24-2019, 06:11 PM
I wanted to see what y'all thought about this quote in that article above:

What do you think this 'longtime associate' means by 'he knows what happened'?

And what did "happen?" Elway refused to sign Brock Osweiler before his final season. Then he was surprised that Brock got a better offer and left in FA. So, Elway was in a panic. He needed a viable future QB.

He drafted Paxton Lynch, who immediately sucked and continued to suck. He signed FA Mark Sanchez. That immediately fizzled.

He ended up starting Trevor Siemian. Then in 2017 there was the "QB competition between Siemian and Paxton." Siemian started and sucked worse.

In 2018 he refused to draft a QB because "we're not kicking Paxton to the curb." They then kicked Paxton to the curb, and signed Case Keesum. He sucked. They released him.

Then Joe Flacco became available. They signed him because he's "in his prime." He sucked and the team continued to lose.

That in a nutshell is"what happened."

Elway screwed up and has continued to screw up every personnel move. How's he going to "fix it?"

Hawgdriver
10-24-2019, 06:21 PM
And what did "happen?" Elway refused to sign Brock Osweiler before his final season. Then he was surprised that Brock got a better offer and left in FA. So, Elway was in a panic. He needed a viable future QB.

He drafted Paxton Lynch, who immediately sucked and continued to suck. He signed FA Mark Sanchez. That immediately fizzled.

He ended up starting Trevor Siemian. Then in 2017 there was the "QB competition between Siemian and Paxton." Siemian started and sucked worse.

In 2018 he refused to draft a QB because "we're not kicking Paxton to the curb." They then kicked Paxton to the curb, and signed Case Keesum. He sucked. They released him.

Then Joe Flacco became available. They signed him because he's "in his prime." He sucked and the team continued to lose.

That in a nutshell is"what happened."

Elway screwed up and has continued to screw up every personnel move. How's he going to "fix it?"

So the particular thing that happened was everything?

Cugel
10-24-2019, 06:48 PM
So the particular thing that happened was everything?

What happened was that Elway tried something. It didn't work so he made another move. That didn't work, so he tried something else. That failed so he tried again. That failed so he's on to the next thing. He's flailing.

Normally, by this point the owner would fire the GM and pick another GM who would blow up the team. Elway can't blow up the team because he chose all the players and if he blows it up he's admitting he screwed up.

Hawgdriver
10-24-2019, 06:50 PM
What happened was that Elway tried something. It didn't work so he made another move. That didn't work, so he tried something else. That failed so he tried again. That failed so he's on to the next thing. He's flailing.

Normally, by this point the owner would fire the GM and pick another GM who would blow up the team. Elway can't blow up the team because he chose all the players and if he blows it up he's admitting he screwed up.

It sounded to me like 'he knows what's happened' was talking about a particular thing, but I can see how it might be some vague, nebulous, overarching, and meaningless statement. I was hoping it meant something, but perhaps not.

Simple Jaded
10-24-2019, 08:16 PM
I wanted to see what y'all thought about this quote in that article above:



What do you think this 'longtime associate' means by 'he knows what happened'?

I take that as the condition of the product on the field in general, what this team has become, like Elway’s not convincing himself that this team is something it’s not.

Simple Jaded
10-24-2019, 08:25 PM
If Adam Peters is so great maybe Elway should do whatever it takes to bring him back.

Simple Jaded
10-24-2019, 08:34 PM
Joel Klatt summed it up perfectly this AM on 104.3 the Fan:



They need a franchise QB or any development they do with the rest of the team is completely pointless. And Joe Flacco is just flat not the answer moving forward.

John Elway hasn't admitted it yet because that would raise the question -- "why do you keep making such obvious blunders?" Everybody in the league just assumed that Flacco wasn't good enough -- except in Denver.

If Elway has to admit the Joe Flacco experiment was a disaster, like the Case Keenum experiment was a disaster, like the Paxton Lynch experiment was a disaster, like the Trevor Siemian experiment was a disaster, then who can he point the finger at?

He has to look in the mirror and admit "I just suck at my job." And he just can't do that. It would take an owner willing to pull the plug. Unfortunately for the Broncos there is no owner. Joe Ellis isn't going to fire Elway. We're just stuck in loserville for the foreseeable future. :tsk:

Sounds like Klatt has seen enough 8-8 Broncos teams to last him a lifetime, too, it’s a whirlpool of bullshit. The .500-ish records are for dreamers, people that believe the “hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard” bullshit, a team full of Josey Jewell’s will win one for the Gipper.

#barf

ShaneFalco
10-24-2019, 09:14 PM
if you are watching TNF you see why you dont throw a young qb that isnt ready out there.

Sacks. etc.

And Haskins was the "most NFL ready" qb.

Poet
10-24-2019, 09:16 PM
if you are watching TNF you see why you dont throw a young qb that isnt ready out there.

Sacks. etc.

And Haskins was the "most NFL ready" qb.

From my recollection Haskins was said to need to sit awhile.

ShaneFalco
10-24-2019, 09:17 PM
From my recollection Haskins was said to need to sit awhile.
they refereed to him as a pocket qb that was the most NFL ready out of all the qbs. that was his draft profile.

Since most of the other qbs came from systems that were not about being a pocket qb with pro style.

Poet
10-24-2019, 09:19 PM
they refereed to him as a pocket qb that was the most NFL ready out of all the qbs. that was his draft profile.

Since most of the other qbs came from systems that were not about being a pocket qb with pro style.

I recall differently because Haskins was a one year starter, but I could be wrong.

ShaneFalco
10-24-2019, 09:26 PM
high throw interception.

This is what we would see from Lock. im fine with it, people just need to be ready not to destroy the kid when he isnt ready.

Poet
10-24-2019, 09:29 PM
high throw interception.

This is what we would see from Lock. im fine with it, people just need to be ready not to destroy the kid when he isnt ready.

Exactly.

Northman
10-24-2019, 09:40 PM
high throw interception.

This is what we would see from Lock. im fine with it, people just need to be ready not to destroy the kid when he isnt ready.

I expect some troubles but i do think its important to get him out there and get a feel for what its like.

Northman
10-24-2019, 09:41 PM
if you are watching TNF you see why you dont throw a young qb that isnt ready out there.

Sacks. etc.

And Haskins was the "most NFL ready" qb.

Well, Keenum has a concussion so they didnt have a real choice. But at least Haskins is getting a feel of what to expect at the pro level.

ShaneFalco
10-24-2019, 10:01 PM
Well, Keenum has a concussion so they didnt have a real choice. But at least Haskins is getting a feel of what to expect at the pro level.

yea that is what it has to be about if they play him. Getting the feel for the NFL game, not judgement.

Simple Jaded
10-24-2019, 11:06 PM
Daniel Jones was the most NFL ready, multi year starter under the Manning’s college coach.

Cugel
10-24-2019, 11:18 PM
Sounds like Klatt has seen enough 8-8 Broncos teams to last him a lifetime, too, it’s a whirlpool of bullshit. The .500-ish records are for dreamers, people that believe the “hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard” bullshit, a team full of Josey Jewell’s will win one for the Gipper.

#barf

Basically this is all true. Elway expects the team to somehow win, despite the fact that his drafts have been horrible and his recent FA acquisitions horrible too.

Instead of re-signing Chris Harris who is actually a top 10 CB, he signed Bryce Callahan who was injured and gave him the long term deal. Fangio confirmed today that Callahan might not play all season. Just a total waste of money. And now Harris will walk at season's end unless they trade him first.

The net result is that the Broncos will be desperately looking for a #1 CB next season, along with everything else that they lack -- Franchise QB, LT, RT, C, #2 WR, TE, ILB, and DE (to replace Wolfe who also is on an expiring contract and won't be back).

Cugel
10-24-2019, 11:22 PM
Quote Originally Posted by ShaneFalco View Post
high throw interception.

This is what we would see from Lock. im fine with it, people just need to be ready not to destroy the kid when he isnt ready.

That is the most important thing. So what if he struggles early. The team isn't winning with Joe Flacco, so what difference does it make? Would he throw more picks at worse moments? Would he hold onto the ball too looooooonnng?

If he sucks he'll just be replicating the crappy performance of Joe Flacco who throws horrible picks and holds the ball so long he got sacked 9 times, except Lock won't be earning $20m a year to do it. And there will the hope that he can develop with more experience. Nobody but Elway has any hope that Flacco will be anything but mediocre at best.

Elevation inc
10-25-2019, 01:54 AM
Its really quite simple, Bench Flacco start Allen lets not even talk about Lock....maybe lock does need some time just to get back into football and game shape that's fine with me. You went into the season with Brandon Allen as your number 2 guy and said it was because he is a young guy we really like. Start him it can't be any worse then Flacco last Thursday and if it is why was he even allowed to be our number 2 then.....we need to get really f'in serious about our future and trotting out Flacco. Its just dumb.....he is performing like shit, they had no problem with Jewell and gotsis losing their starting job...why does the QB get a free pass after basically quitting on the team.....

ShaneFalco
10-25-2019, 06:22 AM
this is why, even tho its contrversial. I would cut flacco and sign kapernick for the rest of the season or play Lock to let him develop for next season.

Northman
10-25-2019, 07:25 AM
Even if Denver entertained signing Kap it would mean they still think they have a shot at the playoffs which i dont think is happening, especially since we have just traded Eman. Im totally down though with playing Lock when he is healthy. I think Joe will be here for at least another year whether as a backup or starter.

Elevation inc
10-25-2019, 07:26 AM
this is why, even tho its contrversial. I would cut flacco and sign kapernick for the rest of the season or play Lock to let him develop for next season.

We don't need to do even that! We have a number 2, The coaching staff and FO apparently likes, Flacco sucks, replace him with your number 2....its why you have a number 2 so if your number 1 sucks or cant play football, you replace them. That's what a depth chart is for.....I want Lock to play but if he aint ready he aint ready. If its coach speak so be it.

Where we catch them is don't give me coach speak if you went into the season with a number 2 you don't feel comfortable with, when Elway explained after signing Allen he felt he could come in and win games if Flacco were to go down. Flacco went down Thursday. He was done 4 years ago, but now everyone remembers why he sucks...he is done and just lost a talented wide out to boot.....he also cant hit open WR's and make his hot route....So bottom line is if Flacco sucks and you don't think Lock is ready, then play your damn number 2 QB because it cant get much worse then Flacco on Thursday.....

underrated29
10-25-2019, 11:09 AM
-- Franchise QB, LT, RT, C, #2 WR, TE, ILB, and DE (to replace Wolfe who also is on an expiring contract and won't be back).


We have the RT in James and elijah as the backup. We have the C, we have hamilton as the 2 and he could do well with sanders out. He did last year. I really like Winfree. A lot. So he could work his way up to #2 quickly. TE is fine. With fant and IRman and Butt and Fumagalie they likely wont go there early at all. ILB is a need. DE we have dremont, Walker is back and kicking ass. Shelby in his natural position is good. So not quite. Here is the list imo

(in no order)
LT, CB, CB, ILB, NT, G, WR

dogfish
10-25-2019, 03:45 PM
There is zero upside in wasting valuable reps on a scrub like Allen. Get lock in there. No one is ever ready when they haven't played before. You learn by doing, not by watching.

SR
10-25-2019, 04:13 PM
Even if Denver entertained signing Kap it would mean they still think they have a shot at the playoffs which i dont think is happening, especially since we have just traded Eman. Im totally down though with playing Lock when he is healthy. I think Joe will be here for at least another year whether as a backup or starter.

Elway would never entertain that and he's said as much. He stated, and this is loosely, that Kaep had his chance to come to Denver and blew it so that ship has sailed.

Cugel
10-25-2019, 04:24 PM
this is why, even tho its contrversial. I would cut flacco and sign kapernick for the rest of the season or play Lock to let him develop for next season.

What the hell is the point of another ageing QB like Kaepernick who hasn't even played in the NFL in 2 years instead of developing your rookie QB Drew Lock?

Either Lock is the future of the franchise, or else they need to use a top 10 pick on Tua or Fromm or Herbert or Jacob Eason. And they need to start Lock right away so we can see whether he's got promise or whether he's another Brock Osweiler.

As for cutting Flacco, what's the point? They're paying him regardless so they might as well sit him on the bench and let him be the backup in case of injury. Kaepernick is done in the NFL. He's not coming back at this point.

Cugel
10-25-2019, 04:33 PM
We have the RT in James and elijah as the backup. We have the C, we have hamilton as the 2 and he could do well with sanders out. He did last year. I really like Winfree. A lot. So he could work his way up to #2 quickly. TE is fine. With fant and IRman and Butt and Fumagalie they likely wont go there early at all. ILB is a need. DE we have dremont, Walker is back and kicking ass. Shelby in his natural position is good. So not quite. Here is the list imo

(in no order)
LT, CB, CB, ILB, NT, G, WR

You're acting as though they have all-pros at these positions and they dont. James has been a huge disappointment and the OL isn't improved. Wilkinson is strictly a backup. He isn't good enough to start in the NFL on a long term basis.

McGovern is a G, not a C. He was pressed into service at C because Elway didn't want to pay Matt Paradis, but he's not very good at it and the OL has suffered.

So, they need permanent replacements at C, LT, RT and possibly RG. They also need quality backups at these positions so if a guy goes down they aren't forced to put Garrett Bolles in there at LT!

TE is anything but "fine." Noah Fant has been totally underwhelming at his position and there's zero depth behind him. Butt has degenerative conditions in both knees that have kept him out and on IR his entire career. They will give him one last chance in training camp and the pre-season to prove he can stay healthy, otherwise they will cut him. No way they can rely on Jake Butt to be available.

Fumagalli and Heurmann have done exactly nothing. They don't have any quality TEs. Hopefully Fant improves in his second season and stops letting balls hit him in the back and get intercepted but there's no guarantee there either. They need another quality TE and preferably two just in case.

As for WRs now that Sanders is gone they have zero depth outside of Sutton. Maybe Tim Patrick can come back at some point and become valuable, but that's mere speculation at this point.

They need ILBs and depth at DL.

Simple Jaded
10-25-2019, 07:28 PM
McGovern is better than Paradis.

Simple Jaded
10-25-2019, 07:32 PM
There is zero upside in wasting valuable reps on a scrub like Allen. Get lock in there. No one is ever ready when they haven't played before. You learn by doing, not by watching.

I learned by watching porn.

ShaneFalco
10-25-2019, 07:42 PM
As for cutting Flacco, what's the point? They're paying him regardless so they might as well sit him on the bench and let him be the backup in case of injury. Kaepernick is done in the NFL. He's not coming back at this point.

the point is the message that any player who quits on the team, gets released or traded.

Nomad
10-25-2019, 07:49 PM
The Kaepernick talk is gay, and desperate. You all sound like a bunch of Tebow jerk off boys.

Poet
10-25-2019, 11:06 PM
The Kaepernick talk is gay, and desperate. You all sound like a bunch of Tebow jerk off boys.

Using the word gay as a put down is pretty lame. Desperate? I'm not advocating for CK because of the long layoff, but considering how so many here were TS and CK excuse makers, I humbly submit that you don't have any room to talk.

Simple Jaded
10-26-2019, 12:39 AM
Using gay as a put down is gay, amirite?

Simple Jaded
10-26-2019, 12:41 AM
Using the word gay as a put down is pretty lame. Desperate? I'm not advocating for CK because of the long layoff, but considering how so many here were TS and CK excuse makers, I humbly submit that you don't have any room to talk.

I bet Kap is motivated, fresh and in top shape, and you KNOW his teammates will ballz out for him. He’s probably exactly what that lockerroom needs.

Poet
10-26-2019, 01:08 AM
I bet Kap is motivated, fresh and in top shape, and you KNOW his teammates will ballz out for him. He’s probably exactly what that lockerroom needs.

He was beloved by his teammates. He never quit on a team like Joe did. At this point he's been gone too long (which is why he sued and the league settled) but if nothing else it would be exciting. Not going to happen though.

Valar Morghulis
10-26-2019, 01:44 AM
McGovern is better than Paradis.

Even if it is only you and I that believe that!!

Poet
10-26-2019, 01:47 AM
Even if it is only you and I that believe that!!

He’s the best center in the world. First ballot HoFer and our best lineman of all time.

Elevation inc
10-26-2019, 05:01 AM
There is zero upside in wasting valuable reps on a scrub like Allen. Get lock in there. No one is ever ready when they haven't played before. You learn by doing, not by watching.

The point was if he is truly not ready so be it, but the FO sold Allen as a guy they liked wether he is a scrub or not is irrelevant. He is our number 2. We just watched the starting QB quit on his team. If lock isn’t ready like they say then Allen has to be in play. It’s not about the opinion on wether or not Allen is a scrub. It’s holding Flacco accountable....so he stops thinking he is untouchable everywhere he goes when he plays like crap....

aberdien
10-26-2019, 08:30 AM
Joe is a disgrace to Broncos fans everywhere. Not a big fan of Flacco either.

Nomad
10-26-2019, 08:30 AM
Using the word gay as a put down is pretty lame. Desperate? I'm not advocating for CK because of the long layoff, but considering how so many here were TS and CK excuse makers, I humbly submit that you don't have any room to talk.

I win the high five battle. :D

BTW....Kaepernick still sucks.

Nomad
10-26-2019, 08:36 AM
Joe is a disgrace to Broncos fans everywhere. Not a big fan of Flacco either.

I’d rather Flacco than Kaepernick. Flacco was benched for Jackson, who is pretty dan good. Kaepernick was benched for Gabbert, which he sucks worse than Flacco.

King’s argument is lame, and gay.

Nomad
10-26-2019, 08:39 AM
He was beloved by his teammates. He never quit on a team like Joe did. At this point he's been gone too long (which is why he sued and the league settled) but if nothing else it would be exciting. Not going to happen though.

He quit his team when he became individualistic, and about himself.

Poet
10-26-2019, 08:40 AM
I win the high five battle. :D

BTW....Kaepernick still sucks.

You are clearly the superior man. I yield.

Poet
10-26-2019, 08:42 AM
He quit his team when he became individualistic, and about himself.

His teammates supported him and gave him an award for leadership. It’s a shame guys like Keenum were/are in the league and Kaep, a guy who at least protected the ball was ousted. It is was it is.

aberdien
10-26-2019, 08:44 AM
I’d rather Flacco than Kaepernick. Flacco was benched for Jackson, who is pretty dan good. Kaepernick was benched for Gabbert, which he sucks worse than Flacco.



King’s argument is lame, and gay.

Kaepernick deserved a second chance somewhere down the line. He was not a great QB but he was good enough in moments of his career to warrant a second chance from a second team. I don't care that much though because all of the skills he had are gone now.

Flacco is a loser and we should not defend him. He has a worse attitude than Cutler. I didn't think it was possible. He doesn't care about this team. I'll take any of our shitty QBs going back to Tebow over Flacco at this point. At least Tebow, Siemien, and Keenum tried their best.

Elway really does suck at picking QBs. Let's hope Lock has the opportunity to prove himself sooner rather than later.

Nomad
10-26-2019, 08:47 AM
His teammates supported him and gave him an award for leadership. It’s a shame guys like Keenum were/are in the league and Kaep, a guy who at least protected the ball was ousted. It is was it is.

Kaepernick is out of the league, because his quality of play does not meet his expectation of salary. If he was a good QB, he’d in the league. Hell, this league continues to let player’s like Hill play (he beat his kid), because he’s good st his position.

Nomad
10-26-2019, 08:50 AM
Kaepernick deserved a second chance somewhere down the line. He was not a great QB but he was good enough in moments of his career to warrant a second chance from a second team. I don't care that much though because all of the skills he had are gone now.

Flacco is a loser and we should not defend him. He has a worse attitude than Cutler. I didn't think it was possible. He doesn't care about this team. I'll take any of our shitty QBs going back to Tebow over Flacco at this point. At least Tebow, Siemien, and Keenum tried their best.

Elway really does suck at picking QBs. Let's hope Lock has the opportunity to prove himself sooner rather than later.

Flacco has proven to suck, you are correct. As far a as Kaepernick, you are wrong. But, I’ve seen folks that have a hard time accepting the truth. It takes time to convince oneself.

Valar Morghulis
10-26-2019, 08:51 AM
Most of the country think assaulting children is acceptable. Kneeling is different.

Opinion shapes response.

Poet
10-26-2019, 08:53 AM
Kaepernick is out of the league, because his quality of play does not meet his expectation of salary. If he was a good QB, he’d in the league. Hell, this league continues to let player’s like Hill play (he beat his kid), because he’s good st his position.

If your analysis were true he wouldn’t have had such a solid year in his last season. You know that. You also know that owners took more umbrage with his protests than what Hill did. Point being, you have won. It’s okay to bash people because of sexual orientation, and it’s okay to blackball CK. I yield. You are the winner.

Nomad
10-26-2019, 08:53 AM
Most of the country think assaulting children is acceptable. Kneeling is different.

Opinion shapes response.

Perhaps in your country.

Poet
10-26-2019, 08:55 AM
Perhaps in your country.

Don’t get so riled up my friend.

Nomad
10-26-2019, 08:55 AM
If your analysis were true he wouldn’t have had such a solid year in his last season. You know that. You also know that owners took more umbrage with his protests than what Hill did. Point being, you have won. It’s okay to bash people because of sexual orientation, and it’s okay to blackball CK. I yield. You are the winner.

Gay means lame, King. It used to mean happy.

Valar Morghulis
10-26-2019, 08:56 AM
Perhaps in your country.

Lol

Scotland is going to be one of the first countries to make assaulting a child illegal

Nomad
10-26-2019, 08:58 AM
Lol

Scotland is going to be one of the first countries to make assaulting a child illegal

It’s already illegal here, too. Congrats.

aberdien
10-26-2019, 09:00 AM
Most of the country think assaulting children is acceptable. Kneeling is different.

Opinion shapes response.

https://media2.giphy.com/media/vzpSAXf2YZnwc/giphy.gif

Valar Morghulis
10-26-2019, 09:00 AM
Gay means lame, King. It used to mean happy.

Gay means homosexual

It used to mean happy

Not it is used as a derogatory term to describe “the lesser” purely as a result of the connotations with homosexuality

Use it/don’t use it - but don’t pretend it is a harmless term that wasn’t brought into our cultural as result of our historical rampant homophobia

BroncoWave
10-26-2019, 09:00 AM
Gay means lame, King. It used to mean happy.

Then why not just say lame?

Poet
10-26-2019, 09:01 AM
Gay means lame, King. It used to mean happy.

I think it’s lame to use gay as a description. That’s all I’m saying.

I also think at this point Kaep has had his skillset erode.

Everyone get along now.

Go Sooners!

Valar Morghulis
10-26-2019, 09:01 AM
It’s already illegal here, too. Congrats.

It is legal to hit children in all 50 states

Poet
10-26-2019, 09:02 AM
I love you all.

Joe Flacco is tearing us apart!

Nomad
10-26-2019, 09:03 AM
It is legal to hit children in all 50 states

Prove it.

aberdien
10-26-2019, 09:03 AM
May we all unite in our hatred of Joe Flacco.

Nomad
10-26-2019, 09:04 AM
Then why not just say lame?

Back in my day, it meant lame. Not my fault the homos stole it.

Nomad
10-26-2019, 09:08 AM
I love you all.

Joe Flacco is tearing us apart!

I’ll compromise. Kaepernick, Flacco, Keenum, Sieimian all suck.

BroncoWave
10-26-2019, 09:11 AM
Back in my day, it meant lame. Not my fault the homos stole it.

Wrong. It was coined as a term to describe homosexual people in the 60s and 70s. There were no recorded instances of it being used to mean "lame" until the late 70s/early 80s. It's no coincidence why that was the case. Homosexual people adopted the term to describe themselves, and homophobia turned it into a slur within the decade.

Please educate yourself about things like this. You're a good dude, and I don't think you realize the negative connotations of a lot of the things you say.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7289390.stm

Nomad
10-26-2019, 09:11 AM
Back to Elway.....if he has the opportunity to draft Andrew Thomas, and does not, then he may need to step down. I do want him to always be in the Bronco organization. He has done some good things.

Northman
10-26-2019, 09:17 AM
I agree, you are all gay as **** and argue about the dumbest shit. And **** Flacco because he sucks major donkey balls (this was said in no attempt to offend any donkey's).

Nomad
10-26-2019, 09:18 AM
I agree, you are all gay as **** and argue about the dumbest shit. And **** Flacco because he sucks major donkey balls (this was said in no attempt to offend any donkey's).

I woke up in a pissed off mood. My apologies. :D

Krugan
10-26-2019, 11:02 AM
Gay, has a meaning, and can be used all in all sorts of situations, and has been for a LONG time.

If I want to call a stupid situation gay, and some homosexual gets hurt, that is on them. Its not their word.

Its pretty simple. People need to stop being so ******* uptight over language. Its speech, its not physical, its just words.

This probably doesnt belong in this area of the board....Sorry, im so over this gay pride stuff, just live and sex how ever you want too, but dont make it everyone else's information, or you open yourself up to being judged.

BroncoWave
10-26-2019, 11:12 AM
Gay, has a meaning, and can be used all in all sorts of situations, and has been for a LONG time.

If I want to call a stupid situation gay, and some homosexual gets hurt, that is on them. Its not their word.

Its pretty simple. People need to stop being so ******* uptight over language. Its speech, its not physical, its just words.

This probably doesnt belong in this area of the board....Sorry, im so over this gay pride stuff, just live and sex how ever you want too, but dont make it everyone else's information, or you open yourself up to being judged.

You can't change anyone else's actions, only your own. You might think it's the dumbest thing in the world that people get offended by a word, but it's going to happen whether you like it or not. So you can try to control your own actions and refrain from doing things that negativity impact other people, or you can be a dick and just tell people to get over it.

I don't personally take offense to any word, and I agree it can be a bit silly that others do, but I can still control what words I use because it's the polite thing to do. I curse like a sailor, but if I'm standing in a church or am around someone who I know doesn't like it, it's very easy for me to just not use those words.

I also grew up calling things that were stupid or lame "gay" all the time. Then I grew up and realized that wasn't socially acceptable and altered my vocabulary.

At this point, anyone who still INSISTS on using the word gay to mean lame isn't doing it because it's the only word they can possibly think of to convey that sentiment. They are doing it because either they know it will get a rise out of people. Which again, is your right to do. Just don't go around acting like you're the one in the right, because you aren't.

Poet
10-26-2019, 11:17 AM
I once got chewed out for making a “That QB has too many kids,” so I don’t want to hear it about not using gay as a derogative. If you dislike Kaep for arguably being disrespectful then you’d think something that is clearly disrespectful wouldn’t be treaded upon.

Joe Flacco makes me sad.

Northman
10-26-2019, 11:25 AM
You can't change anyone else's actions, only your own. You might think it's the dumbest thing in the world that people get offended by a word, but it's going to happen whether you like it or not. So you can try to control your own actions and refrain from doing things that negativity impact other people, or you can be a dick and just tell people to get over it.

I don't personally take offense to any word, and I agree it can be a bit silly that others do, but I can still control what words I use because it's the polite thing to do. I curse like a sailor, but if I'm standing in a church or am around someone who I know doesn't like it, it's very easy for me to just not use those words.

I also grew up calling things that were stupid or lame "gay" all the time. Then I grew up and realized that wasn't socially acceptable and altered my vocabulary.

At this point, anyone who still INSISTS on using the word gay to mean lame isn't doing it because it's the only word they can possibly think of to convey that sentiment. They are doing it because either they know it will get a rise out of people. Which again, is your right to do. Just don't go around acting like you're the one in the right, because you aren't.

Get over it you fag. :D

Poet
10-26-2019, 11:33 AM
Get over it you fag. :D

I don't like this post, but I also know you don't have any hate in your heart. I've made my argument, and I love you, North.

Northman
10-26-2019, 11:36 AM
I don't like this post, but I also know you don't have any hate in your heart. I've made my argument, and I love you, North.

I dont hate anyone on this board but im not afraid of being crass either. Bottom line is though i see people all the time on this board lecturing and preaching about how others should be treated, etc but those same people have said some of the nastiest things to other people on here as well. If you are going to tout being a "good" human being than practice what you preach before jumping up on a pedestal. There isnt one person on this board (except maybe Carol) that hasnt crossed the line or said nasty shit to another. I just dont like the double standards some people try to place on other members on here.

Poet
10-26-2019, 11:42 AM
I dont hate anyone on this board but im not afraid of being crass either. Bottom line is though i see people all the time on this board lecturing and preaching about how others should be treated, etc but those same people have said some of the nastiest things to other people on here as well. If you are going to tout being a "good" human being than practice what you preach before jumping up on a pedestal. There isnt one person on this board (except maybe Carol) that hasnt crossed the line or said nasty shit to another. I just dont like the double standards some people try to place on other members on here.

I'm guilty of it big time. I'm working on bettering myself. I try not to lecture too much. A big part of it is that I've represented LGBTQ communities and populaces, and I know the effect the phrase/s can have on them. I also think it falls into a line that I wouldn't cross. I don't care if someone makes fun of me for being fat, but I would care if someone mocked me for being of Arabic descent. I feel like sexuality falls into that same basic corp group.

Nomad
10-26-2019, 11:43 AM
Get over it you fag. :D

It's a different age, North, using gay or fag meant as lame. I guess that's so 80s. But, it is ok to mock the homosexuals by continually saying an individual wants to sodomize, or give oral sex to another man.

Krugan
10-26-2019, 11:48 AM
You can't change anyone else's actions, only your own. You might think it's the dumbest thing in the world that people get offended by a word, but it's going to happen whether you like it or not. So you can try to control your own actions and refrain from doing things that negativity impact other people, or you can be a dick and just tell people to get over it.

I don't personally take offense to any word, and I agree it can be a bit silly that others do, but I can still control what words I use because it's the polite thing to do. I curse like a sailor, but if I'm standing in a church or am around someone who I know doesn't like it, it's very easy for me to just not use those words.

I also grew up calling things that were stupid or lame "gay" all the time. Then I grew up and realized that wasn't socially acceptable and altered my vocabulary.

At this point, anyone who still INSISTS on using the word gay to mean lame isn't doing it because it's the only word they can possibly think of to convey that sentiment. They are doing it because either they know it will get a rise out of people. Which again, is your right to do. Just don't go around acting like you're the one in the right, because you aren't.

No, i dont use gay to this day to get a rise out of anyone, thats a pretty big assumption, I use it as I always have.

If you chose to compromise yourself to be "socially acceptable" great on you, i chose to live as i always have, and not cow tow to a minimal percentage of the world population, that feels that a word is now representative of their sexual choice. Its ******* ridiculous.

BroncoWave
10-26-2019, 11:48 AM
I dont hate anyone on this board but im not afraid of being crass either. Bottom line is though i see people all the time on this board lecturing and preaching about how others should be treated, etc but those same people have said some of the nastiest things to other people on here as well. If you are going to tout being a "good" human being than practice what you preach before jumping up on a pedestal. There isnt one person on this board (except maybe Carol) that hasnt crossed the line or said nasty shit to another. I just dont like the double standards some people try to place on other members on here.

This falls under my "you can only control your own actions* stance. Sure, everyone around you, myself included, might be giant aholes and hypocrites. Doesn't mean you can't try to better yourself. I've absolutely been a raging dbag on this board in the past, and probably still am from time to time. I try to do better, but it doesn't always happen. "Everyone else is doing it" isn't the best excuse for one's own actions.

Valar Morghulis
10-26-2019, 11:48 AM
I follow that logic if you still use the n word

Nomad
10-26-2019, 11:50 AM
We're doing a good job of getting this thread closed down, and blackholed. pun intended :D

Poet
10-26-2019, 11:50 AM
No, i dont use gay to this day to get a rise out of anyone, thats a pretty big assumption, I use it as I always have.

If you chose to compromise yourself to be "socially acceptable" great on you, i chose to live as i always have, and not cow tow to a minimal percentage of the world population, that feels that a word is now representative of their sexual choice. Its ******* ridiculous.

Ah, so if there were more gays then it'd be different. Woof, bro, woof.

BroncoWave
10-26-2019, 11:51 AM
No, i dont use gay to this day to get a rise out of anyone, thats a pretty big assumption, I use it as I always have.

If you chose to compromise yourself to be "socially acceptable" great on you, i chose to live as i always have, and not cow tow to a minimal percentage of the world population, that feels that a word is now representative of their sexual choice. Its ******* ridiculous.

Yes, having to slightly alter the vocabulary you use is such a struggle and compromise. What a hero you are for overcoming that.

Poet
10-26-2019, 11:52 AM
We're doing a good job of getting this thread closed down, and blackholed. pun intended :D

If Elway had listened to even half of my ideas we'd be in better shape. Elway is tearing us apart.

BroncoWave
10-26-2019, 11:53 AM
I follow that logic if you still use the n word

Bingo. By the logic of "I should be able to call things gay and gay people should just get over it" we should all just be able to go around using the n word right? I mean it's just a word. Black people should just get over it.

Poet
10-26-2019, 11:55 AM
Bingo. By the logic of "I should be able to call things gay and gay people should just get over it" we should all just be able to go around using the n word right? I mean it's just a word. Black people should just get over it.

I nominate that whenever the Broncos miss the boat on a good QB, or sign a bad coach, we refer to it as Elway.

Man, by not trading up for Darnold, or taking Mahomes or Watson, the Broncos were really Elway. Elwaying it up.

Nomad
10-26-2019, 11:56 AM
If Elway had listened to even half of my ideas we'd be in better shape. Elway is tearing us apart.

Elway will right the ship. I still have faith left.

Poet
10-26-2019, 11:56 AM
I dont hate anyone on this board but im not afraid of being crass either. Bottom line is though i see people all the time on this board lecturing and preaching about how others should be treated, etc but those same people have said some of the nastiest things to other people on here as well. If you are going to tout being a "good" human being than practice what you preach before jumping up on a pedestal. There isnt one person on this board (except maybe Carol) that hasnt crossed the line or said nasty shit to another. I just dont like the double standards some people try to place on other members on here.

I love you, Northman.

Nomad
10-26-2019, 11:57 AM
Bingo. By the logic of "I should be able to call things gay and gay people should just get over it" we should all just be able to go around using the n word right? I mean it's just a word. Black people should just get over it.

You and Valor already do a good job of mocking the gays by continually talking about sodomy, and oral sex with men. You both sound like hypocrites in here.

BroncoWave
10-26-2019, 11:59 AM
You and Valor already do a good job of mocking the gays by continually talking about sodomy, and oral sex with men. You both sound like hypocrites in here.

Lol nice try, but no. We're normalizing it as an ok thing to do.

Krugan
10-26-2019, 11:59 AM
I follow that logic if you still use the n word

Thats a whole different ball game. I dont use that word, never have. Although im not sure that particular word has alot of meaning left. And im really not sure why its so taboo honestly. You cant listen to rap music or a video or movie and not hear it.

BUt i dont use that word, never felt the need.

Nomad
10-26-2019, 12:00 PM
Lol nice try, but no. We're normalizing it as an ok thing to do.

Gay response.

Nomad
10-26-2019, 12:03 PM
If Elway had listened to even half of my ideas we'd be in better shape. Elway is tearing us apart.

I'm sure Davii, and the mods, are gonna see this thread and just give us all bans. :D

Poet
10-26-2019, 12:05 PM
Thats a whole different ball game. I dont use that word, never have. Although im not sure that particular word has alot of meaning left. And im really not sure why its so taboo honestly. You cant listen to rap music or a video or movie and not here it.

BUt i dont use that word, never felt the need.

You don't use that word because you've never felt the need. Mostly because you respect the societal norm of not using that word. But the logic still has to follow: that word once had a different meaning than the word has now, so under your logic you could use it and it would be fine.

I know the argument you'd have to make is that the n-word was thrust upon blacks, a minority populace, so that's the difference because you claim that gays stole the word.

https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2017/10/gay-come-mean-homosexual/

Just stop. The logic you'd have to use to justify your stance doesn't really work, and at best it would be specious and obtuse. Much like Elway's logic when he drafts/acquires Qb. Stop being so Elway.

Poet
10-26-2019, 12:05 PM
I'm sure Davii, and the mods, are gonna see this thread and just give us all bans. :D

I'm better behaved in P and R than I am out here I guess.

Nomad
10-26-2019, 12:07 PM
I'm better behaved in P and R than I am out here I guess.

You're a good guy, King. I hope the Huskers, and Bruins, win today.

Krugan
10-26-2019, 12:10 PM
Yes, having to slightly alter the vocabulary you use is such a struggle and compromise. What a hero you are for overcoming that.

As you I guess. Its all good though, i put myself out there to be judged, so feel free. Its okay to think differently and not herd follow.

Poet
10-26-2019, 12:10 PM
You're a good guy, King. I hope the Huskers, and Bruins, win today.

Go Huskers, Bruins, Tigers, Stanford, Cavs, SOOOOOOOOOOOOONERS!, Mississippi St, Aggies, Fightin' Illini, whatever Montana team I adopted, and...am I missing someone? Oh yeah, Broncos!

Nomad
10-26-2019, 12:11 PM
Go Huskers, Bruins, Tigers, Stanford, Cavs, SOOOOOOOOOOOOONERS!, Mississippi St, Aggies, Fightin' Illini, whatever Montana team I adopted, and...am I missing someone? Oh yeah, Broncos!

Geaux Tigahs!

Poet
10-26-2019, 12:11 PM
As you I guess. Its all good though, i put myself out there to be judged, so feel free. Its okay to think differently and not herd follow.

First there weren't enough gay people in existence to take over the world, and now you have an issue with the majority stance?

I need to stop. You have a good one, Krugan.

Krugan
10-26-2019, 12:12 PM
You don't use that word because you've never felt the need. Mostly because you respect the societal norm of not using that word. But the logic still has to follow: that word once had a different meaning than the word has now, so under your logic you could use it and it would be fine.

I know the argument you'd have to make is that the n-word was thrust upon blacks, a minority populace, so that's the difference because you claim that gays stole the word.

https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2017/10/gay-come-mean-homosexual/

Just stop. The logic you'd have to use to justify your stance doesn't really work, and at best it would be specious and obtuse. Much like Elway's logic when he drafts/acquires Qb. Stop being so Elway.

Thats fine, i guess. I dont use gay as slander to homosexuals. so I guess that makes my logic faulty? The word wasnt always used about sex, they adapted it and i dont agree, i guess im a bad guy.

Poet
10-26-2019, 12:13 PM
Thats fine, i guess. I dont use gay as slander to homosexuals. so I guess that makes my logic faulty? The word wasnt always used about sex, they adapted it and i dont agree, i guess im a bad guy.

I don't think you're a bad guy. Most people aren't bad. I like you Krugan. I think you're a good guy.

Nomad
10-26-2019, 12:14 PM
Mr. Elway......please find a way to draft Andrew Thomas in 2020. TIA.

Krugan
10-26-2019, 12:14 PM
First there weren't enough gay people in existence to take over the world, and now you have an issue with the majority stance?

I need to stop. You have a good one, Krugan.

What majority are you talking about? The people who are scared to just use words or those of us who really arent?

If your taking the word herd, and applying it to the majority, im not so sure you are correct. I dont think the politcal correctness boat is as full as everyone thinks. but thats just my 2 cents.

Krugan
10-26-2019, 12:27 PM
Ah, so if there were more gays then it'd be different. Woof, bro, woof.

I guess thats arguable. Fair point. I still dont feel that I should have to accept someone elses hurt over a word adapted to suit someones sexual preference. It wasnt meant to be that way.

Krugan
10-26-2019, 12:30 PM
Bingo. By the logic of "I should be able to call things gay and gay people should just get over it" we should all just be able to go around using the n word right? I mean it's just a word. Black people should just get over it.

Yes, maybe they should. Considering that the term is used indiscriminately with in the black community...

Poet
10-26-2019, 12:33 PM
What majority are you talking about? The people who are scared to just use words or those of us who really arent?

If your taking the word herd, and applying it to the majority, im not so sure you are correct. I dont think the politcal correctness boat is as full as everyone thinks. but thats just my 2 cents.

I don't think it's so much fear as it is people just going "yeah, I'm not going to use that word in that way because it's demeaning."

Poet
10-26-2019, 12:34 PM
Yes, maybe they should. Considering that the term is used indiscriminately with in the black community...

One word has the er ending and the other word has an a ending. The latter was crafted as a means of ownership of the slur.

Poet
10-26-2019, 12:37 PM
I guess thats arguable. Fair point. I still dont feel that I should have to accept someone elses hurt over a word adapted to suit someones sexual preference. It wasnt meant to be that way.

The link I posted gives a history of the word. The reality is that the history is complex. Yet, it wasn't used as a put down towards someone or something until after it was also associated with same-sex couples/people/etc. Gay people didn't claim the word. So it's meaning is complex. However, since it's meaning is now ubiqitious with what we know as gay people, there's no real gain or actual use to use it as a put down.

Krugan
10-26-2019, 12:41 PM
I don't think it's so much fear as it is people just going "yeah, I'm not going to use that word in that way because it's demeaning."

I dont see it as demeaning. I cant control others definitions of words, as i dont expect someone to accept my usage. I just do me.

If the sway with the wind crowd wants to adjust their own vocab to suit whoever is offended, sweet. Its not gonna be me. i kinda like being able to use words and not label them off limits because such and such gets bent. I guess that could go out further to other words, but again im not in situations or dealings that would lead me to believe i would ever have to use the big unusable, by pale people, N word.

Poet
10-26-2019, 12:44 PM
I dont see it as demeaning. I cant control others definitions of words, as i dont expect someone to accept my usage. I just do me.

If the sway with the wind crowd wants to adjust their own vocab to suit whoever is offended, sweet. Its not gonna be me. i kinda like being able to use words and not label them off limits because such and such gets bent. I guess that could go out further to other words, but again im not in situations or dealings that would lead me to believe i would ever have to use the big unusable, by pale people, N word.

You cannot control how society evolves with words. I agree. But, you can control what you do, and you are aware of the evolutions of words. I don't think you doing you has to entail willfully ignoring the context we have here. If you choose to use the word that way, knowing that it will have that impact, so be it. But it isn't an issue of capitulation.

Krugan
10-26-2019, 12:46 PM
The link I posted gives a history of the word. The reality is that the history is complex. Yet, it wasn't used as a put down towards someone or something until after it was also associated with same-sex couples/people/etc. Gay people didn't claim the word. So it's meaning is complex. However, since it's meaning is now ubiqitious with what we know as gay people, there's no real gain or actual use to use it as a put down.

Gay people claim it now, and use it as a symbol of pride. I use it multiple ways not associated with same sex relations. So my usage is not acceptable, because homosexuals are offended but not? Man this standard of word usage and how to be socially acceptable must be tiring as ****....

Valar Morghulis
10-26-2019, 12:48 PM
What is interesting is until very recently i used the word retard with a fair amount of regularity.

It was on this board that someone first challenged it (might even have been Joe), it wasn't really an issue in the UK, but it made me look into it more and the rejection of the word Retard, no doubt soon to be called the R word, is getting more and more widespread worldwide.

As a result of that, i am really trying to stop my automatic use of the word - which colloquailally i have used in jest to describe a silly behaviour, or a bad decision.

To get to North's earlier point, where he sees a double standard - i want to be called on that, because the chances are if no one calls me on it, i will never know (due to a plethora of self serving biases that we all have!)

Also as for this thread resulting in bans - the topic may be borderline but i think everyone conducted themselves fairly cordially

Krugan
10-26-2019, 12:51 PM
You cannot control how society evolves with words. I agree. But, you can control what you do, and you are aware of the evolutions of words. I don't think you doing you has to entail willfully ignoring the context we have here. If you choose to use the word that way, knowing that it will have that impact, so be it. But it isn't an issue of capitulation.

No but it is, in the social world we live in, if you seem to break from the path, you are shunned as if you are a leper. Which i guess now we should really look at accepting lepers into the public again and inviting them to all the buffets?

Either you are 'woke" or you are part of the problem and you need to be reconditioned or exiled(yes i get im being over the top).

Poet
10-26-2019, 12:53 PM
Gay people claim it now, and use it as a symbol of pride. I use it multiple ways not associated with same sex relations. So my usage is not acceptable, because homosexuals are offended but not? Man this standard of word usage and how to be socially acceptable must be tiring as ****....

Some gay people claim it now. After more evolutions of the word. So sure, let's work with that. Gay now means same sex couples/people. Society recognizes that. Sexuality is deeply personal, and comparable to other identifiers such as religion, national origin, ethnicity, race, etc. Knowing that, and knowing that the history of the word of gay being a put down is also present, what utility or gain is it in using the word?

If you want to make the philosophical argument that a word is a word, in a vaccuum it works but in the real world it doesn't because words are powerful. Regardless of whether you like it or not. Morever, regarding the N word, you said you have no use for the word personally? Why? Why not use it as its original usage of someone being ignorant? You won't use it ostensibly because of the backlash, and because you know its history as a racist word. You're not a racist, so why not use it that way? Is it the repercussions? Is it tiring to not use that word?



Also, because this is basic knowledge of what and how gay means and its usage, how tiring can it be?

Krugan
10-26-2019, 12:53 PM
What is interesting is until very recently i used the word retard with a fair amount of regularity.

It was on this board that someone first challenged it (might even have been Joe), it wasn't really an issue in the UK, but it made me look into it more and the rejection of the word Retard, no doubt soon to be called the R word, is getting more and more widespread worldwide.

As a result of that, i am really trying to stop my automatic use of the word - which colloquailally i have used in jest to describe a silly behaviour, or a bad decision.

To get to North's earlier point, where he sees a double standard - i want to be called on that, because the chances are if no one calls me on it, i will never know (due to a plethora of self serving biases that we all have!)

Also as for this thread resulting in bans - the topic may be borderline but i think everyone conducted themselves fairly cordially

Our offense is retarded. Look up the definition and it pretty much fits.

Again, its a word with a set definition, and it has been molded to fit a narrative, it doesnt make it a bad word...

Nomad
10-26-2019, 12:54 PM
There is a such thing as retard strength.

Krugan
10-26-2019, 12:56 PM
Some gay people claim it now. After more evolutions of the word. So sure, let's work with that. Gay now means same sex couples/people. Society recognizes that. Sexuality is deeply personal, and comparable to other identifiers such as religion, national origin, ethnicity, race, etc. Knowing that, and knowing that the history of the word of gay being a put down is also present, what utility or gain is it in using the word?

If you want to make the philosophical argument that a word is a word, in a vaccuum it works but in the real world it doesn't because words are powerful. Regardless of whether you like it or not. Morever, regarding the N word, you said you have no use for the word personally? Why? Why not use it as its original usage of someone being ignorant? You won't use it ostensibly because of the backlash, and because you know its history as a racist word. You're not a racist, so why not use it that way? Is it the repercussions? Is it tiring to not use that word?



Also, because this is basic knowledge of what and how gay means and its usage, how tiring can it be?

Again, its a word with a set definition, and it has been molded to fit a narrative, it doesnt make it a bad word...

I mean it has to be exhausting to always look for the new goal post. Ill use the above statement pretty much to fit them all. People want to move a word from here to there and back to here and over there. It has to just be tiring to try and be politically correct all the time. **** that.

Valar Morghulis
10-26-2019, 12:58 PM
Jesus lol thought I was on common ground with retard!

Poet
10-26-2019, 12:58 PM
No but it is, in the social world we live in, if you seem to break from the path, you are shunned as if you are a leper. Which i guess now we should really look at accepting lepers into the public again and inviting them to all the buffets?

Either you are 'woke" or you are part of the problem and you need to be reconditioned or exiled(yes i get im being over the top).

It depends on what you break off on the path from. If you break off of the path from eating meat, you might get light teasing but that's about it. If you break off from the path of marriage and choose to not get married with your long time partner...nothing happens. The better question is to ask why the norm is the norm? Why would I shun someone for -I don't shun anyone- using a word but not shun Val for not eating meat?

Being woke isn't the issue here. There are plenty of people who aren't woke you don't use that word that way. That's a cop out and you know it.

Let's get down to brass tacks - we (used to) say "that's so gay," because gay people are deemed different from the status quo. That's the reason that verbiage was used. It wasn't created independently of the reference to sexuality. You can either show respect to gay people and not use it that way, or not. That's your choice. But I certainly hope you have no hang ups - if being called skinny, fat, ugly, (insert anything as a put down) to you or someone you like bothers you, you're a hypocrite. If you think civility and kindness and awareness has a place in society, then you've to work out cognitive dissonance my friend.

Poet
10-26-2019, 12:58 PM
Again, its a word with a set definition, and it has been molded to fit a narrative, it doesnt make it a bad word...

I mean it has to be exhausting to always look for the new goal post. Ill use the above statement pretty much to fit them all. People want to move a word from here to there and back to here and over there. It has to just be tiring to try and be politically correct all the time. **** that.

Words evolve and have numerous meaning.

The changing of words is gradual. We don't have a 'word' meeting every month. You know better.

Poet
10-26-2019, 12:59 PM
There is a such thing as retard strength.

You're so damn provocative!

turftoad
10-26-2019, 12:59 PM
Let’s keep this about football in this thread boys!

Nomad
10-26-2019, 01:01 PM
#tankforthomas

Poet
10-26-2019, 01:01 PM
Let’s keep this about football in this thread boys!

Let's draft Tua and that LT.

Nomad
10-26-2019, 01:02 PM
Let’s keep this about football in this thread boys!

I guess it's my fault, turf. But, I can't help if society is so sensitive, and offended nowadays. But, they sure can talk about sucking ****.

Nomad
10-26-2019, 01:02 PM
Let's draft Tua and that LT.

No on Tua.

Northman
10-26-2019, 01:11 PM
This falls under my "you can only control your own actions* stance. Sure, everyone around you, myself included, might be giant aholes and hypocrites. Doesn't mean you can't try to better yourself. I've absolutely been a raging dbag on this board in the past, and probably still am from time to time. I try to do better, but it doesn't always happen. "Everyone else is doing it" isn't the best excuse for one's own actions.


Oh I dont do it because of everyone else. I just know there are greater tragedies in the world than terminology. I also dont get on soap boxes to tell everyone else they are bad human beings because of it. That's all I was getting at.

Poet
10-26-2019, 01:14 PM
Oh I dont do it because of everyone else. I just know there are greater tragedies in the world than terminology. I also dont get on soap boxes to tell everyone else they are bad human beings because of it. That's all I was getting at.

I'm too fat for soap boxes. )=

Nomad
10-26-2019, 01:15 PM
So, why do you believe Tua would be a good fit for the Broncos, King?

Krugan
10-26-2019, 01:17 PM
Words evolve and have numerous meaning.

The changing of words is gradual. We don't have a 'word' meeting every month. You know better.

They shouldnt, the have already been defined, should be the end of the story.

That being said, the broncos offense is uncommonly bad.

BTW im done, ill **** and move on.

Poet
10-26-2019, 01:18 PM
So, why do you believe Tua would be a good fit for the Broncos, King?

He's just so accurate and polished. And when I watch him play I never feel like he can't do something on the field. MO is a Qb savant and likes him. Chazoe is a QB savant and doesn't.

If we don't get him, I won't be crushed. I'd be more than happy with a LT.

Poet
10-26-2019, 01:20 PM
They shouldnt, the have already been defined, should be the end of the story.

That being said, the broncos offense is uncommonly bad.

They do, and have for all of human history. We know that they do, because gay used to mean happy, then it became sexual, then it became a description for same sex sex and a put down. You don't have to agree with the changing of the words to just choose a different word to use. We had a nice discussion, Krugan. Have a good one brochacho.

Poet
10-26-2019, 01:21 PM
They shouldnt, the have already been defined, should be the end of the story.

That being said, the broncos offense is uncommonly bad.

BTW im done, ill **** and move on.

You don't have to ****. We're just friends talking.

Nomad
10-26-2019, 01:22 PM
He's just so accurate and polished. And when I watch him play I never feel like he can't do something on the field. MO is a Qb savant and likes him. Chazoe is a QB savant and doesn't.

If we don't get him, I won't be crushed. I'd be more than happy with a LT.

If we draft Tua, that means Broncos gave up on Lock before giving him a chance. I'm all in on a LT, especially Thomas. If we keep Flacco at the helm, Broncos will have a good chance at drafting him.

Northman
10-26-2019, 01:27 PM
What is interesting is until very recently i used the word retard with a fair amount of regularity.

It was on this board that someone first challenged it (might even have been Joe), it wasn't really an issue in the UK, but it made me look into it more and the rejection of the word Retard, no doubt soon to be called the R word, is getting more and more widespread worldwide.

As a result of that, i am really trying to stop my automatic use of the word - which colloquailally i have used in jest to describe a silly behaviour, or a bad decision.

To get to North's earlier point, where he sees a double standard - i want to be called on that, because the chances are if no one calls me on it, i will never know (due to a plethora of self serving biases that we all have!)

Also as for this thread resulting in bans - the topic may be borderline but i think everyone conducted themselves fairly cordially


The only thing I will say on this is I have no need to call you out because I understand everyone is human. Plus there is a difference between intent and context.

Krugan
10-26-2019, 01:27 PM
You don't have to ****. We're just friends talking.

For sure, its refreshing to not have a conversation devolve into name calling over a difference in view point.

Not common any more. Ive had basically this same conversation with a long time friend and he wanted to go outside and throw blows, so this was ok by me. Im just not going to discuss non football in this thread, hence the ****!

Poet
10-26-2019, 01:28 PM
If we draft Tua, that means Broncos gave up on Lock before giving him a chance. I'm all in on a LT, especially Thomas. If we keep Flacco at the helm, Broncos will have a good chance at drafting him.

It’s a good argument you have.

Nomad
10-26-2019, 01:30 PM
It’s a good argument you have.

Perhaps the NFL is going to the Mahommie, Wilson, and Cardinals QB (forgot his name) types, and not your pure pocket passers like Manning & Brady.

Hawgdriver
10-26-2019, 01:55 PM
What is interesting is until very recently i used the word retard with a fair amount of regularity.

It was on this board that someone first challenged it (might even have been Joe), it wasn't really an issue in the UK, but it made me look into it more and the rejection of the word Retard, no doubt soon to be called the R word, is getting more and more widespread worldwide.

As a result of that, i am really trying to stop my automatic use of the word - which colloquailally i have used in jest to describe a silly behaviour, or a bad decision.

To get to North's earlier point, where he sees a double standard - i want to be called on that, because the chances are if no one calls me on it, i will never know (due to a plethora of self serving biases that we all have!)

Also as for this thread resulting in bans - the topic may be borderline but i think everyone conducted themselves fairly cordially

Whatever retard.

Hawgdriver
10-26-2019, 01:55 PM
:)

J/k

BroncoWave
10-26-2019, 02:12 PM
Oh I dont do it because of everyone else. I just know there are greater tragedies in the world than terminology. I also dont get on soap boxes to tell everyone else they are bad human beings because of it. That's all I was getting at.

Just giving my opinion. I don't believe I called anyone a bad human being. I don't think anyone in this discussion is a bad person.

Nomad
10-26-2019, 02:13 PM
You guys aren't following turf's orders. I am. :D:proud::saint:

BroncoWave
10-26-2019, 02:13 PM
You guys aren't following turf's orders. I am. :D:proud::saint:

I'm a bad boy.

Nomad
10-26-2019, 02:14 PM
I'm a bad boy.

isn't that a song?

Nomad
10-26-2019, 02:22 PM
I'm conflicted. I'm very staunch on not tanking a season, and always wanting wins. But at the same time, I want Thomas.

Northman
10-26-2019, 02:55 PM
Just giving my opinion. I don't believe I called anyone a bad human being. I don't think anyone in this discussion is a bad person.

I wasnt specifically talking or pointing at you or anyone else in here. Only that i notice it in the broader scheme of social exchanges in Murica.

Northman
10-26-2019, 02:56 PM
I'm conflicted. I'm very staunch on not tanking a season, and always wanting wins. But at the same time, I want Thomas.

You can staunchly want Denver to win but that doesnt mean they will listen. Lol

Nomad
10-26-2019, 02:56 PM
North.....you on board with Andrew Thomas? choo choo

Simple Jaded
10-26-2019, 09:58 PM
Kaepernick is out of the league, because his quality of play does not meet his expectation of salary. If he was a good QB, he’d in the league. Hell, this league continues to let player’s like Hill play (he beat his kid), because he’s good st his position.

He’s out of the league for political reasons, which is ironic, hypocritical and thoroughly pathetic.

Btw, you know this. The fact that Hill is in and Kap is out is on you, I wouldn’t draw attention to it.

Simple Jaded
10-26-2019, 10:01 PM
I'm conflicted. I'm very staunch on not tanking a season, and always wanting wins. But at the same time, I want Thomas.

Why?

Poet
10-26-2019, 10:07 PM
I'm conflicted. I'm very staunch on not tanking a season, and always wanting wins. But at the same time, I want Thomas.

Well, if we lose tomorrow the season is truly lost. At that point you just root for the youngings to play hard, well, and the like. Don't be conflicted. Imagine John Elway was available in this draft. It'd be worth tanking, right? Same logic applies.

Cugel
10-27-2019, 10:22 AM
Well, if we lose tomorrow the season is truly lost. At that point you just root for the youngings to play hard, well, and the like. Don't be conflicted. Imagine John Elway was available in this draft. It'd be worth tanking, right? Same logic applies.

That's what the Colts did! That's what's so funny. Even fans who didn't follow college football outside of CU like me heard about Elway all the time before the draft. The Colts will never admit they deliberately tanks for Elway, but at 0-8-1 in a shortened season they had the #1 pick all along and everybody knew it would be Elway. Did they deliberately lose? Well, they didn't deliberately WIN any games that season. We can say that. And the Colts were rumored to be greedily scouting Elway during the season.

And Elway was trying to warn the Colts not to take him, that he didn't want to play for them and would in fact prefer to play AA Baseball for the Yankees than accept the Colts. Family feud.

But, yes tanking for an obvious generational talent like Elway that everybody can see is Hall of Fame level talent can change your franchise forever.

Some people think Trevor Lawrence is that kind of talent. Some people thought that Baker Mayfield would be that kind of success and a lot more did not think that.

Andrew Luck had that obvious ability and the Colts accidentally stepped into him.

But, nobody trades up to get that obvious a player. Everybody could see Elway or Manning or Andrew Luck coming a mile away in the draft. So, whatever team has the #1 overall pick that year would automatically draft him for fear of being the team drafting Sam Bowie ahead of Michael Jordan. You don't recover from that as an organization. Nobody ever lets you forget "we could have had Jordan."

There's not really that kind of consensus generational talent in the 2020 draft. There could be another sleeper who suddenly turns into a super-nova like Pat Mahomes in there somewhere but it's not OBVIOUS who that would be at this point.

Nobody really stands out as "OMG! Can't miss Hall of Fame talent!"

TUA, Fromm, Herbert, and my current favorite, Jacob Eason:


Jacob Eason (https://walterfootball.com/draft2020QB.php)*, QB, Washington
Height: 6-6. Weight: 227.
Projected 40 Time: 4.80.
Projected Round (2020): 1-2.

10/24/19: In 2019, Eason has completed 67 percent of his passes for 1,981 yards with 16 touchdowns and three interceptions. Eason has a powerful arm that can make all the throws and stretch a defense vertically. He can throw fastballs into tight windows that beat good coverage. Eason has quality field vision to work through progressions and stands tall in the pocket. He is accurate in the short to intermediate part of the field and is able to make some beautiful throws downfield.

With his limited experience, Eason is a bit raw and needs to show some growth in instincts. As a passer, he has some things to work on, including putting more air under the ball on some passes and throwing a softer, more catchable ball. That is a common issue with big-armed quarterbacks. While Eason is not a running threat, he can move around some and his size makes him tough to get down.

Cugel
10-27-2019, 10:35 AM
The Denver Broncos must come away with one of these 4 men in the 2020 draft: Herbert, Eason, Fromm or Tua. Scout them, figure out which one you want and go get him.

That way there would be something exciting to root for on this team instead of dreading both the team on the field playing another game on Sunday because it feels like taking a beating to be a fan trying to root for this team and seeing this cac of a performance out there.

I can only watch 1/2 of the game, no more. So, I decide which half I'm going to watch, and the rest I'll just glance at to see the score. But, I'm not going to sit through 3 hours of bad football that is not just bad but really, really BORING.

My best friend won't go with me to watch Broncos games any more. He's more of a casual fan and he just has better things to do with his money than subject yourself to the Bumbling Browncos. They're the new Browns. A joke in the NFL.


"Many, get a load of what's going on in Denver? Talk about a train wreck. John Elway thought Joe Flacco was his franchise QB of the future? Didn't exactly work out. Not exactly a surprise there. But, that franchise is in total disarray."

That's what people around the NFL are starting to say about the Broncos. You're starting to see it in the media. They just think Elway is screwing up and nobody can understand why he ever thought Joe Flacco 2020 would be any different than Joe Flacco 2013-2018.

2013-18. That's a pretty good sample size of Joe Average being average at best.

So, why again was it supposed to be so much better here in Denver? :coffee:

I'm tired of this shit man.

Northman
10-27-2019, 10:48 AM
They dont need to take a QB next year especially since they have no idea what they have in Lock. They need to start improving the Oline, MLB, CB, and WR next year above all else. If any of those QB's fall to the 3rd or 4th round than go ahead and take a gamble on one. But wasting a first round pick on a QB next year would be stupid.

Elevation inc
10-27-2019, 11:11 AM
I love you all.

Joe Flacco is tearing us apart!

I warned you all lol

Poet
10-27-2019, 03:50 PM
I warned you all lol

I hated it. Hated the trade. But I hate being labeled as a negative person, even if my negativity is accurate. People hate my posts because I'm negative a lot. So I wanted to try to be happy.

I shouldn't have capitulated.

Poet
10-27-2019, 03:52 PM
John suffered for years on bad offenses with bad playcalling. He excelled even more than he did in the past once he got a good line, great weapons, and a great HC with a great offensive gameplan.

What has he done? He's not built a good line, ever. He's had some hits on offense, but never built a complete offensive arsenal. He's never hired a good offensive HC, and even if you count Kubiak as one when he was our HC our offense still sucked under him.

He has done everything opposite of what worked for him.

Hawgdriver
10-27-2019, 04:07 PM
I hated it. Hated the trade. But I hate being labeled as a negative person, even if my negativity is accurate. People hate my posts because I'm negative a lot. So I wanted to try to be happy.

I shouldn't have capitulated.

It's fine.

Enjoy the ride.

The Keenum move disgusted me when it happened. Almost physically. I had a very strong negative reaction to the news, what it said about our front office.

But I don't like to remain negative like that. So now I just root for the team to win, and don't care much about what I can't control. :lol:

Timmy!
10-27-2019, 04:11 PM
Can we plz shelf the QB talk until we see what Lock has? Seriously? An elite left tackle would be nice.

Poet
10-27-2019, 04:12 PM
It's fine.

Enjoy the ride.

The Keenum move disgusted me when it happened. Almost physically. I had a very strong negative reaction to the news, what it said about our front office.

But I don't like to remain negative like that. So now I just root for the team to win, and don't care much about what I can't control. :lol:

I should have stayed true to myself. What good is a King87 if he capitulates because he wants people to like him more?

Hawgdriver
10-27-2019, 04:13 PM
I should have stayed true to myself. What good is a King87 if he capitulates because he wants people to like him more?

He's friendlier. :)

This is what I'm trying to teach my son. No one cares that you are right. Seriously. No one cares.

But they do like you if you are likeable.

Poet
10-27-2019, 04:15 PM
He's friendlier. :)

This is what I'm trying to teach my son. No one cares that you are right. Seriously. No one cares.

But they do like you if you are likeable.

Then what's the point of having a logical brain?

Hawgdriver
10-27-2019, 04:16 PM
Then what's the point of having a logical brain?

For when it matters being right?

Poet
10-27-2019, 04:21 PM
For when it matters being right?

Word.

Poet
10-27-2019, 06:02 PM
For when it matters being right?

I guess I think being right always matters. You learn from mistakes, but it's better when you don't make any.

Simple Jaded
10-27-2019, 07:45 PM
I should have stayed true to myself. What good is a King87 if he capitulates because he wants people to like him more?

I like you better when we don’t agree.

Poet
10-27-2019, 07:48 PM
I like you better when we don’t agree.

Really? Remember when it was you and I vs the world on Keenum? It sucked watching those games, but we fought off the hateful hordes.

Simple Jaded
10-27-2019, 09:08 PM
Really? Remember when it was you and I vs the world on Keenum? It sucked watching those games, but we fought off the hateful hordes.

When we don’t agree with them, that’s even better.

Poet
10-27-2019, 09:09 PM
When we don’t agree with them, that’s even better.

Them - we scared.

Us - get a dog.

Simple Jaded
10-27-2019, 09:10 PM
Them - we scared.

Us - get a dog.

I got a dog.

Three cats.

Northman
10-27-2019, 09:10 PM
Hold up, i wasnt on board with Keenum either. Why you dolts leaving me out?

Simple Jaded
10-27-2019, 09:11 PM
Even after he’s gone he’s tearing us apart ... good riddance.

Simple Jaded
10-27-2019, 09:12 PM
At least with Flacco we can all agree that Denver has the best giraffe QB in the league.

NightTerror218
10-27-2019, 09:15 PM
I think he needs to hire a real GM. He is not a great scout. Stick to being VP but get someone who what the hell he is doing. For every awesome signing elect has 5 head scratchers. His mantra of let every free agent test the market and then sign someone who sucks to a big contract is killing us.

Hawgdriver
10-27-2019, 09:15 PM
I got a dog.

Three cats.

I got a dog, a cat, a mouse, a rat, a fly (he won't die) and a little gnat.

Poet
10-27-2019, 09:30 PM
Hold up, i wasnt on board with Keenum either. Why you dolts leaving me out?

You never hashtagged with us. )=

Simple Jaded
10-27-2019, 09:32 PM
I got a dog, a cat, a mouse, a rat, a fly (he won't die) and a little gnat.

Gnats are cool, I want a Gnat/Poodle mix ... a Gnoodle. Hypoallergenic.

Valar Morghulis
10-28-2019, 01:27 AM
You never hashtagged with us. )=

What about me......I called him a bum and compared him to orton before the season even started!

Poet
10-28-2019, 01:36 AM
What about me......I called him a bum and compared him to orton before the season even started!

You never hashtagged with us. )=

Valar Morghulis
10-28-2019, 01:44 AM
You never hashtagged with us. )=

#screwyourhsshtags
#myhateforkeenumwassostrongitpreventedmefromthinki ngclearlyandilosttheabilitytohashtag

Elevation inc
10-28-2019, 01:51 AM
Really? Remember when it was you and I vs the world on Keenum? It sucked watching those games, but we fought off the hateful hordes.

I didn't have a lot of confidence in keenum, but I was fine with the contract setup at the time because he didn't prevent us from moving onto a rookie if we were to draft one. Then we didn't, and chad Kelly messed up. This crap with Flacco is tough to swallow, but at least we went into the draft for a talented QB....Is what it is...bottom line is most of us in this forum new that the band aid formula we have been doing at QB and offense for the last 4 years wouldn't amount to shite and its held true.....Only way we get out of this on offense is if we develop a Young guy, and get innovative on offense....our defense has rounded into form for the most part....

No defense can handle their offense being that crappy for so long.....its worn on our guys and its painfully clear to see....

Elevation inc
10-28-2019, 01:56 AM
I think he needs to hire a real GM. He is not a great scout. Stick to being VP but get someone who what the hell he is doing. For every awesome signing elect has 5 head scratchers. His mantra of let every free agent test the market and then sign someone who sucks to a big contract is killing us.

I would agree, many former players have trouble evaluating their own type of player in those positions

ShaneFalco
10-29-2019, 03:59 PM
changing my vote to no.

Sounds to me like Elway has been spayed and neutered by the ownership board and Joe Ellis. To me this comes down to coaching and few bad choices elway has made in the draft.

Kyle Shannahan should be the Broncos coach. The fact the board did not allow it. And then Elway was forced to go with Fangio and Vance Joseph really bothers me more then the missed picks. How do you not allow a GM to actually pick the coach he wants?

That is something the Cowboys or Browns do. Not the Broncos.

Valar Morghulis
10-29-2019, 04:05 PM
VJ was elway’s choice

The board said no the shanny snr

ShaneFalco
10-29-2019, 04:07 PM
VJ was elway’s choice

The board said no the shanny snr

they also said no to young shanny.

https://247sports.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/Article/Kyle-Shanahan-Denver-Broncos-interview-125946215/

Shanahan reflects on Denver life, interviewing for Broncos job



There will probably be some nostalgia for San Francisco 49ers head coach Kyle Shanahan when he faces off against the Denver Broncos at Levi's Stadium on Sunday, but even though he has strong memories of the days he spent in Denver when his father was head coach, he's happy the Broncos went in a different direction when they were considering him for their head coaching job in 2017.

Shanahan's father Mike spent much of his coaching career in Denver, where he had two stints as an assistant before serving as head coach from 1995 to 2008. The Broncos gave Shanahan a four-hour interview for their head coaching job in 2017 after previous head coach Gary Kubiak retired but ultimately hired Vance Joseph, while Shanahan eventually wound up in San Francisco. Shanahan enjoyed the experience of meeting with the Broncos during the interview process and seeing some of familiar faces from when he grew up, but he doesn't have any regret over landing in San Francisco.

“It was fun to interview there," Shanahan told reporters Wednesday, per 49ers.com. "I was definitely happy how it worked out. Definitely thought it was a much better situation for myself here, not that that was my choice or anything. It was neat to interview with some of those guys, guys like John Elway and [Denver Broncos president and CEO] Joe Ellis, guys that knew me.