Elway: No Broncos are on the trading block --SANDERS TRADED

[Northman]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27824915/john-elway-says-no-broncos-trading-block-slump


"We're trying to win football games," Elway said. "So, no one from our side is on the trading block. We're going to try to continue to win football games."
EDITOR'S PICKS

Elway said he's frustrated that it has taken so long to turn around Denver's dive and reiterated a point he made this summer to The Associated Press that his job isn't enjoyable right now -- but he stressed he has no plans to walk away before fixing the team he led to two Super Bowl titles as a Hall of Fame quarterback and another as a front-office executive.

"I think the hardest thing about losing is you get in a situation to where something bad happens in a game and you say, 'Here we go again,' and that is a very tough thing to break," Elway said. "That's what we've got to get out of. I think it's hurt us a couple of times. But we went out and got one last week, and so we've got to continue to stay positive with it and work our way through it."

[MOtorboat]

:whoknows:

[Valar Morghulis]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27824915/john-elway-says-no-broncos-trading-block-slump

I wonder how 1-5 changes things on Monday !?

[Shazam!]

How bout 3x4 by Fri morning

Id think that changes everything dramatically

[Valar Morghulis]

How bout 3x4 by Fri morning

Id think that changes everything dramatically

I imagine that would solidify Elway's position. My point was highlighting the transient nature in the veracity of elway's comment

[WTE]

I wonder how 1-5 changes things on Monday !?

Emmanuel Sanders will be a Patriot by Tuesday.

[Valar Morghulis]

Emmanuel Sanders will be a Patriot by Tuesday.

He sure hopes so!

I love him, I wish we had more success with him

[Simple Jaded]

Exactly, at this point they should be trying to acquire available talent, unless 8-8 is actually the goal.

[Davii]

Exactly, at this point they should be trying to acquire available talent, unless 8-8 is actually the goal.

It'd be an improvement.

[Cugel]

The time to have traded away their veterans on expiring contracts was back in March when teams would offer maximum value for them. Now Sanders, Wolfe, Harris have negligible value. I heard Sandy Clough stating last night that Harris wouldn't even get them a 4th round pick in return at this point of the season.

They missed the boat if they were going to get real value for their players and might just as well let their veterans play out their contracts and then walk. If they win one of the next 2 games Elway will continue to be deluded into thinking this team can make some kind of playoff run.

To get into the playoffs would require 10-6, so they'd have to go 8-2 the rest of the way. Not totally impossible, but for this team which is averaging about 17 points a game? No way.

8-8 is totally worthless. Not good enough to compete, not bad enough to get a good draft pick. :tsk:

[Timmy!]

The time to have traded away their veterans on expiring contracts was back in March when teams would offer maximum value for them. Now Sanders, Wolfe, Harris have negligible value. I heard Sandy Clough stating last night that Harris wouldn't even get them a 4th round pick in return at this point of the season.

They missed the boat if they were going to get real value for their players and might just as well let their veterans play out their contracts and then walk. If they win one of the next 2 games Elway will continue to be deluded into thinking this team can make some kind of playoff run.

To get into the playoffs would require 10-6, so they'd have to go 8-2 the rest of the way. Not totally impossible, but for this team which is averaging about 17 points a game? No way.

8-8 is totally worthless. Not good enough to compete, not bad enough to get a good draft pick. :tsk:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azdwsXLmrHE

[Simple Jaded]

It'd be an improvement.

Yay improvements!

I’m going to make this the best mediocre season of your life, my gift to you.

[Davii]

Yay improvements!

I’m going to make this the best mediocre season of your life, my gift to you.

Continuous improvement is a thing.

How many teams have gone from 4-12 or worse to Super Bowl champs in one season?

I'll hang up and wait for the very low number.

[Simple Jaded]

Continuous improvement is a thing.

How many teams have gone from 4-12 or worse to Super Bowl champs in one season?

I'll hang up and wait for the very low number.
Not arguing that, just saying 8-8 is bullshit.

I’d argue that .500-ish isn’t an improvement but understanding it requires you to go somewhere you’ve never been. I get it, I thought the same way before getting a taste of Champion-ness.

[Simple Jaded]

Seriously, **** .500-ish.

Y’all can have it, I want more.

Keep that in mind while you brand me a loser.

[Davii]

Seriously, **** .500-ish.

Y’all can have it, I want more.

Keep that in mind while you brand me a loser.

You won't go from 1-15 to 12-4. Won't happen. 8-8 must happen at some point. If it continues that's a problem. I want more, but this team won't get it. I don't care if we lose from here on out. That won't bring us success next year, but it better bring a vast improvement over the pile we've seen this year.

[Elevation inc]

Seriously, **** .500-ish.

Y’all can have it, I want more.

Keep that in mind while you brand me a loser.


Nothing wrong with calling it how it is and wanting more.....I'm with you time to burn it down because what we have been attempting to do since 2015 isn't working we cant even obtain 8-8......

[Poet]

Nothing wrong with calling it how it is and wanting more.....I'm with you time to burn it down because what we have been attempting to do since 2015 isn't working we cant even obtain 8-8......

Flacco is going to take us to the playoffs next year. I feel so bad for him. He's so good and we're so bad we're mitigating his elite play.

[ShaneFalco]

R Wilson has like worst line in NFL, doesnt seem to bother him to the point he is just chucking balls out of bounds.

[Elevation inc]

R Wilson has like worst line in NFL, doesnt seem to bother him to the point he is just chucking balls out of bounds.

that's because he is a elite QB in the running for MVP lol...we can only dream of that....

[Poet]

R Wilson has like worst line in NFL, doesnt seem to bother him to the point he is just chucking balls out of bounds.

Different types of QB. Mobile vs pure pocket passer.

[Elevation inc]

Different types of QB. Mobile vs pure pocket passer.

Our pure pocket passer doesn't do a very good job of even passing from the pocket.......but of course everyone will say its all the OL, but ignored that for Brock, Trevor and case who dealt with many of the same crap players....lets not forget Bolles has been our LT since 2017 and we paired him on the other side with Menelik Watson and Donald Stephenson. So while Flacco might have had more talent at one point then any of those 3...its long past been snuffed out....he had one throw during the game that Fant dropped that was a elite QB pass, and 1 he shouldn't of thrown but got lucky to Courtland, but I actually give him props for it because he took a shot right after the fumble for a TD return, and I liked the kahunas he had in doing so. that's QB 1 shit......the problem is he is good for about 1 or 2 a game of those plays and its been about every other game when it happens.....that in no way shape or form is solid QB 1 play.....the dude is done its only a matter of time before he is out of the league.....If we don't move on from him at years end...I don't expect John to be in Office much longer its that noticeable to the rest of the NFL and now opposing D-coordinators...what we have at QB, for some reason its taken many here months to see it, and most of the Denver organization and fan base felt fine with him.....


KC just laid the blue print....shut down the run game, blitz and pressure Flacco, and he is done.....we have heard that same thing from opposing defenses since manning left with all of our Qb's.....shut down the run, make the offense have to pass to beat us, defenses know they cant with any of our QB's, so if we can make some plays on D we got Denver beat.....pretty much what's been going on for about 4 years now.....

[Poet]

Man...I haven’t trolled in so long.

[Northman]

Seriously, **** .500-ish.

Y’all can have it, I want more.

Keep that in mind while you brand me a loser.


Im not branding you a loser, mediocrity sucks. Hell, we are hardly even that anymore. :lol:

[Elevation inc]

Man...I haven’t trolled in so long.

I Kinda liked it to be honest....I either figured you were trolling, drunk, high or in such a rage you weren't thinking clearly.....:lol:

[Davii]

Flacco gets Indy. After that the Lock train BETTER be leaving the ******* station and we better be benching people for shit play. I don't care if the backup is worse, maybe they can improve, ****wads like Bolles have shown they will NOT grow or improve at all.

[Krugan]

We cant flush it all right now, and honestly who is going to pay top dollar for fire sale items?

That being said, when you have this much fail, you should be starting at the top and fixing those issues first, then finding your value for players that maybe have gotten to complacent. Ownership NEEDS to be settled to get the foundation stable, before anything really changes, that has to happen.

[Hawgdriver]

We cant flush it all right now, and honestly who is going to pay top dollar for fire sale items?

That being said, when you have this much fail, you should be starting at the top and fixing those issues first, then finding your value for players that maybe have gotten to complacent. Ownership NEEDS to be settled to get the foundation stable, before anything really changes, that has to happen.

Précisément.

[Simple Jaded]

You won't go from 1-15 to 12-4. Won't happen. 8-8 must happen at some point. If it continues that's a problem. I want more, but this team won't get it. I don't care if we lose from here on out. That won't bring us success next year, but it better bring a vast improvement over the pile we've seen this year.

It can happen, the trick isn’t going from 1-15 talent to 12-4 talent, the trick is going from 1-15 culture to 12-4 culture ... that’s why trading for established NFL talent is important imo.

If the Broncos did have an aging core .500-ish wouldn’t be so disgustipating, they’re not an up-and-coming team. You’re talking about the Browns situation here ... the Broncos aren’t that, they don’t do 0-16, they will never stockpile talent like the early Rivers era Chargers.

The Broncos need to try to avoid .500 by trades and FA, that’s who they are, that’s who they’ve always been.

As is so common throughout Broncos history, this Broncos team needs quality, not quantity.

[Nomad]

What's this?
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/broncos-reportedly-to-listen-to-emmanuel-sanders-trade-calls-receiver-open-to-deal/

[Denver Native (Carol)]

It Doesn’t Sound Like Emmanuel Sanders Wants To Be In Denver Anymore

https://boston.cbslocal.com/2019/10/18/emmanuel-sanders-patriots-trade-rumors-denver-broncos-nfl/

[Nomad]

It Doesn’t Sound Like Emmanuel Sanders Wants To Be In Denver Anymore

https://boston.cbslocal.com/2019/10/18/emmanuel-sanders-patriots-trade-rumors-denver-broncos-nfl/

Ouch! I'm sure every player on a struggling team wants to go to the Patriots, rather than making their team better with their talents.

[Elevation inc]

It Doesn’t Sound Like Emmanuel Sanders Wants To Be In Denver Anymore

https://boston.cbslocal.com/2019/10/18/emmanuel-sanders-patriots-trade-rumors-denver-broncos-nfl/


Can’t blame him if we can sneak a 2nd or 3rd pick it’s worth it....

[Northman]

It Doesn’t Sound Like Emmanuel Sanders Wants To Be In Denver Anymore

https://boston.cbslocal.com/2019/10/18/emmanuel-sanders-patriots-trade-rumors-denver-broncos-nfl/

Dont really blame him. This team has no real plan or direction.

[Northman]

Ouch! I'm sure every player on a struggling team wants to go to the Patriots, rather than making their team better with their talents.

He would probably be fine with staying here if Denver was at all competent.

[Elevation inc]

He would probably be fine with staying here if Denver was at all competent.

He is prob tired of playing with shite at QB.....

[Simple Jaded]

It Doesn’t Sound Like Emmanuel Sanders Wants To Be In Denver Anymore

https://boston.cbslocal.com/2019/10/18/emmanuel-sanders-patriots-trade-rumors-denver-broncos-nfl/

Bye Felicia.

[Nomad]

Bye Felicia.

Thanks, Cube. :D

[Simple Jaded]

Thanks, Cube. :D

“Fake ass Suge Knight!”

[Nomad]

“Fake ass Suge Knight!”

:laugh:

[MOtorboat]

Can’t blame him if we can sneak a 2nd or 3rd pick it’s worth it....

Maybe a conditional fifth, tops. He’s a 10 game rental.

[Poet]

Thank you for what you've done.

Now get the **** out. Remember all the times you clamored to keep TS in the lineup, or to sign Case Keenum? This is what you get for endorsing that garbage and being an active voice advocating for not rebuilding. You could be on a good team right now if you hadn't been shortsighted. But you were. Now you want to leave? Man ****. I'll miss you when you've been gone awhile, but until then ****.

[Nomad]

Play for the Broncos. Make the Broncos better with your talents.

[MOtorboat]

What’s the comp pick for Sanders? Fourth rounder? Fifth rounder?

[UnderArmour]

What’s the comp pick for Sanders? Fourth rounder? Fifth rounder?

It would depend on the amount he got signed for, and the amount of free agents we signed. A 4th or a 5th would be the most likely outcome, because I don't see him making bank in free agency at this stage in his career.

Sanders is definitely gone on Tuesday. Question is where. 49ers, Packers, Bills, Colts, Jags, Seahawks, Cowboys, and Titans could all be in the market. AJ Green and Sanu are also possible targets for these teams though, so who knows? Broncos at worst will get a 5th, at best a 3rd rounder.

[MOtorboat]

It would depend on the amount he got signed for, and the amount of free agents we signed. A 4th or a 5th would be the most likely outcome, because I don't see him making bank in free agency at this stage in his career.

Sanders is definitely gone on Tuesday. Question is where. 49ers, Packers, Bills, Colts, Jags, Seahawks, Cowboys, and Titans could all be in the market. AJ Green and Sanu are also possible targets for these teams though, so who knows? Broncos at worst will get a 5th, at best a 3rd rounder.

Green would almost have to be a trade and sign. He’s a rental and he’s going to get a second or third round comp for the Bengals, so to get value they’d probably need the other team to sign him to an extension. That’s complicated in season. Sanu is under contract for two seasons, so that might bode well for Denver getting a third for Sanders, who, coming off a bunch of injuries and as a rental would be the easiest to get on the market. We’ll see if John can leverage that. I think he needs to go, he’s clearly been unhappy for a couple seasons.

[UnderArmour]

Green would almost have to be a trade and sign. He’s a rental and he’s going to get a second or third round comp for the Bengals, so to get value they’d probably need the other team to sign him to an extension. That’s complicated in season. Sanu is under contract for two seasons, so that might bode well for Denver getting a third for Sanders, who, coming off a bunch of injuries and as a rental would be the easiest to get on the market. We’ll see if John can leverage that. I think he needs to go, he’s clearly been unhappy for a couple seasons.

Highest available comp pick is a 3rd round pick, so it would be similar to the Golden Tate scenario last season where the Eagles were comfortable giving up a 3rd knowing they could either re-sign him or get a compensatory pick back. A team acquiring AJ Green could safely do so knowing that they will be in line to get a possible 3rd or 4th round pick back when he leaves in free agency.

The same applies for Emmanuel, except the compensatory pick won't be a 3rd. A team could acquire him, knowing that if he walks in free agency, they will be in line to get a pick back down the road. Both players status as rentals actually somewhat works in favor of their trade values.

[Nomad]

Elway aint tradin nothin. You guys are overthinkin it.

[Poet]

Elway aint tradin nothin. You guys are overthinkin it.

He's not a very good GM, unfortunately.

[Nomad]

He's not a very good GM, unfortunately.

Don'chu be talkin bout Elway like dat!!

15180

[BroncoWave]

Elway aint tradin nothin. You guys are overthinkin it.

Wanna bet? Sanders is definitely gone by the deadline.

[Poet]

Don'chu be talkin bout Elway like dat!!

15180

Flacco, TS, CK, PL, and Brock (not a total failure but neither a success, either) are his GM legacy just as much as PFM.

I just can't think that's acceptable.

[Davii]

Flacco, TS, CK, PL, and Brock (not a total failure but neither a success, either) are his GM legacy just as much as PFM.

I just can't think that's acceptable.

Taken as a whole his career as a GM is impressive. He hasn't delivered lately and that's what matters most. His legacy will be how he handles where we are now. Will he continue down the same path until he's fired or will he bring in some help, turn it around, and go out on top?

We shall see. What I do know is your talk of his legacy is premature.

[Northman]

Apparently Shefter has confirmed the John is looking to trade Eman by next Thursday.

[Northman]

https://www.milehighreport.com/2019/10/20/20923547/the-broncos-are-fielding-calls-for-emmanuel-sanders

https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2019/10/20/20923446/nfl-trade-rumors-chris-harris-jr-eagles-broncos-philadelphia-news-garry-cobb-linebacker-guarantee

[Poet]

Taken as a whole his career as a GM is impressive. He hasn't delivered lately and that's what matters most. His legacy will be how he handles where we are now. Will he continue down the same path until he's fired or will he bring in some help, turn it around, and go out on top?

We shall see. What I do know is your talk of his legacy is premature.

Well, he signed PFM, and won a SB. He gets a lot of credit for PFM, and the FAs he got after PFM. But until recently he was horrible at drafting. And we've sucked for awhile. I'm just frustrated with so many of his decisions, and if he really isn't looking to get more draft capital after that drubbing we just took, it's over. But, the reports Northman linked make me feel a little better...even if the Flacco restructure is horrifying.

I think I'm mad at him more because he knows better. He's a very talented person, and that includes his business savvy and intellect. Some of these things were just obvious blunders. Some of them I get. I defended his earlier drafts, and to an extent I still do. I loved his last two drafts. I'm just grumpy.

[Magnificent Seven]

Not with the patriots. I hope not!

[Davii]

Not with the patriots. I hope not!

I hope not as well.... BUT it's time for a rebuild.

[Magnificent Seven]

I hope not as well.... BUT it's time for a rebuild.

Eagles, Panthers, and Niners are interested in Sanders.

[Cugel]

NFL rumors: Broncos likely to trade WR Emmanuel Sanders before deadline (https://www.9news.com/article/sports/nfl/denver-broncos/mike-klis/broncos-notes-sanders-expected-to-be-traded/73-41ec9afb-5570-4702-a259-98c58b64ac7a)

9News is reporting that Sanders is being actively shopped for trade and that he's likely to be dealt before the trade deadline.

[Elevation inc]

Sanu Just went to NE for a 2nd rd. pick, We are getting at least a 3rd for Sanders if not a 2nd. Pretty sure NE wanted Sanders but I don't think we want to trade him to a AFC team. Or Elway is just that stubborn and thinks we still have a chance. Hopefully we send Sanders to SF or another NFC team for a 2nd rd. pick...

[Davii]

Sanu Just went to NE for a 2nd rd. pick, We are getting at least a 3rd for Sanders if not a 2nd. Pretty sure NE wanted Sanders but I don't think we want to trade him to a AFC team. Or Elway is just that stubborn and thinks we still have a chance. Hopefully we send Sanders to SF or another NFC team for a 2nd rd. pick...

I hope it's that he doesn't want to help the Pats, be the most respectable move of the season so far.

[dogfish]

NFL network reporting that sanders has been traded to the niners. . . no mention of the compensation. . .

[Ziggy]

NFL network reporting that sanders has been traded to the niners. . . no mention of the compensation. . .

Sanders and a fifth for a 3rd and 4th. Great value IMO.

[Northman]

Good fit for Eman, hope he does well there and has a good chance at another ring.

[dogfish]

Sanders and a fifth for a 3rd and 4th. Great value IMO.

yea-- that works. . . and IF we trade chris, we should get another third, if not a second-- he's sure as hell worth more than gareon conley, age difference notwithstanding. . . i'd still rather sign him to an extension-- but if he's not interested, send him to philly for a two. . . then come back next year with a fat stack of draft chips, and find us some more guys like sutton and risner. . .

[Bronco4ever]

I love Sanders, but that’s pretty good returns for that trade. I’m happy that he’ll be on a winning team. He deserves it.

[BroncoWave]

Wanna bet? Sanders is definitely gone by the deadline.

Good thing you didn't take this bet nomad. :D

[dogfish]

I love Sanders, but that’s pretty good returns for that trade. I’m happy that he’ll be on a winning team. He deserves it.

he had a damn fine run here. . . no one should be butthurt about this-- it's best for all parties at this point. . . gonna miss watching him play, but he's not on our timeline right now. . . let him play for a contender-- it's time for us to develop the young guys. . . they need to bring tim patrick back from IR, and forget about riddick. . . if they want another scatback, bring muhammed up from the PS, and cut or trade booker. . .

[BroncoWave]

Thank God we didn't give him to the Pats. Well done, Elway.

[VonDoom]

This was inevitable recently so I’ve come to terms with it already. Love that dude and wish him nothing but the best

[Timmy!]

A 3rd and moving up 10ish draft spots or so. Meh, not horrible, better than a comp pick. I hope Sanders does well in SF.

Now get a 3rd or better for Harris already. Moar picks!!!

[wayninja]

It Doesn’t Sound Like Emmanuel Sanders Wants To Be In Denver Anymore

https://boston.cbslocal.com/2019/10/18/emmanuel-sanders-patriots-trade-rumors-denver-broncos-nfl/

There literally isn't a single thing in this article that even alludes to the fact that he doesn't/didn't want to be in Denver.

[WTE]

Thank God we didn't give him to the Pats. Well done, Elway.

We wanted the much bigger WR in Sanu all the time. We have enough 5' 10" WR's already.

[Buff]

Sanders will go down as one of the great free agent acquisitions in franchise history. Guy did nothing but produce the whole time he was here.

And also remember that he screwed over the Chiefs in the process of signing with the Broncos, which I will always respect.

[MasterShake]

Good for Sanders and good for the Broncos. Dude played out of his mind here and was always pretty classy even during the last few lean years. Just hope we can turn this into good picks and a better team. Sucks to see him go but I am happy for him and happy for the Broncos for moving on and admitting they are rebuilding. That is the first step in moving in the right direction.

[D1g1tal j1m]

Sanders gave us everything he had while he was here. It was a great run and I am glad he is going to a contender.

I expect the flood gates to open and seeing more veterans moved out. If only anyone would take Flaccno for a ham sandwich...

[Magnificent Seven]

Did Broncos win this trade?

[Hawgdriver]

Did Broncos win this trade?

I wouldn't say 'won'. They get what looks to be the #95 pick in the draft for Sanders, about 40 'points' using Rich Hill draft value model. They give up a high 5th for a low 4th--say 5-10 spots, about 2 points of draft value. So, 42 points, the equivalent of the 93d pick in the draft.

It's better than nothing, but the conversion rate on a #93 pick to starter is shaky. For purposes of moving up in the first round, it's enough capital to jump from #5 to #4, or maybe even #3. Could jump from #4 to #3, but not to #2. Could jump from #35 or so (first pick in 2d round) to about #25. (Using just the value from this trade, not other picks)

https://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart-Rich-Hill.asp

Hate to say it, but the trade looks great if the 49ers really blow the rest of their season, and I don't like that position...

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Michael Spencer
‏Verified account @MichaelCBS4
1m1 minute ago

Elway says Tim Patrick will be back after the bye week.
First time someone within the organization has said that.
#4Broncos @CBSDenver

Michael Spencer
‏Verified account @MichaelCBS4
2m2 minutes ago

Elway when asked if Emmanuel expressed a desire to be traded: "Yes, he did...Emmanuel had issues and we had issues."
"We were able to get the value that we thought was fair."
#4Broncos @CBSDenver

Michael Spencer
‏Verified account @MichaelCBS4
3m3 minutes ago

Elway on whether or not he anticipates any more deals: "Possibly. Don't know yet. We'll see how it goes."
He says they have not received in any interest in Chris Harris Jr. recently.
#4Broncos @CBSDenver

Michael Spencer
‏Verified account @MichaelCBS4
1h1 hour ago

Caught Emmanuel Sanders as he was leaving the #Broncos facility. #4Broncos @CBSDenver #BroncosCountry

[wayninja]

Any chance Elway trades himself?

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Nicki Jhabvala
‏Verified account @NickiJhabvala
13m13 minutes ago

When asked if he can explain what he means when he said "what happened with the Tennessee game," Elway said: "Nope. Not getting into that."


Nicki Jhabvala
‏Verified account @NickiJhabvala
16m16 minutes ago

John Elway: "I think eventually with what happened after the Tennessee game and where we were and the value we were getting for him, decided it was the best thing for our team to trade him."

[wayninja]

Gotta love elway bringing up "what happened with the Tennessee game", then not wanting to get into it.

[Buff]

Jesus. When did we get so dysfunctional?

[wayninja]

Jesus. When did we get so dysfunctional?

You know when.

[BroncoWave]

Elway on whether or not he anticipates any more deals: "Possibly. Don't know yet. We'll see how it goes."
He says they have not received in any interest in Chris Harris Jr. recently.
#4Broncos @CBSDenver




This is almost certainly a lie. And an odd lie at that. I'd think he'd want to give teams the impression that there is a lot of interest in him.

[Buff]

This is almost certainly a lie. And an odd lie at that. I'd think he'd want to give teams the impression that there is a lot of interest in him.

It's almost like he's being petulantly defiant today with everything going so poorly and everyone criticizing him --

- We traded Emmanuel Sanders because he's an *******.
- No offers for CHJ.
- Maybe we will or maybe we won't bring Lock off of IR.

Like, wtf man?

[BroncoWave]

It's almost like he's being petulantly defiant today with everything going so poorly and everyone criticizing him --

- We traded Emmanuel Sanders because he's an *******.
- No offers for CHJ.
- Maybe we will or maybe we won't bring Lock off of IR.

Like, wtf man?

Yeah, he made a nice deal in the Sanders trade but otherwise he's acting bizarre today.

Like, seriously? Sanders helped you win a title and has been a consummate professional and performer and you're going to shit on him on the way out? Eff off with that shit.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

IF DMac, Tyler and Nick are correct, they are speculating that Emmanuel was upset because he was not targeted in the first half in the Tennessee game, and he removed himself from the rest of the game. If this is true, I respect John for not mentioning it, and for anything else that many have happened.

[Buff]

Yeah, he made a nice deal in the Sanders trade but otherwise he's acting bizarre today.

Like, seriously? Sanders helped you win a title and has been a consummate professional and performer and you're going to shit on him on the way out? Eff off with that shit.

It was terrible. And even if he hadn't received a single offer for CHJ - lie to us and drum up a market for him. And how is it even under consideration that they wouldn't bring Lock off of IR? He's like, "oh yeah Tim Patrick is for sure coming off IR - but Lock? Ehhh we don't know. We may want to see how Flacco performs in weeks 12-17."

[Buff]

IF DMac, Tyler and Nick are correct, they are speculating that Emmanuel was upset because he was not targeted in the first half in the Tennessee game, and he removed himself from the rest of the game. If this is true, I respect John for not mentioning it, and for anything else that many have happened.

Fair enough - I suppose if he quit on the team then that would change the perspective. Of course - it also underscores how terribly dysfunctional the whole organization has become - but you can't condone that if true.

[wayninja]

IF DMac, Tyler and Nick are correct, they are speculating that Emmanuel was upset because he was not targeted in the first half in the Tennessee game, and he removed himself from the rest of the game. If this is true, I respect John for not mentioning it, and for anything else that many have happened.

But, like, he did mention it, which has the direct result of this "speculation" coming out.

[Poet]

We have a losing culture in Denver. We are in trouble.

I do like the trade though.

[Dapper Dan]

DT never quit on us.

[Poet]

DT never quit on us.

It’s telling John is only thus far willing to trade offensive players. I think it’s easier for him.

[Buff]

DT never quit on us.

Did you see him drop that ball on MNF last night? Felt just like old times.

[BroncoWave]

Fair enough - I suppose if he quit on the team then that would change the perspective. Of course - it also underscores how terribly dysfunctional the whole organization has become - but you can't condone that if true.

Even if that's true, it's still beneath Elway to sling that dirt on the way out. You run the franchise. Be the professional.

[Poet]

Did you see him drop that ball on MNF last night? Felt just like old times.

Shush.

[Edmonton Bronco Fan]

It's a start. Now Harris. And then Wolfe. And then Elway.... he can go start up another used car dealership or something.

Manny was always one of my favorite Broncos. A consummate professional and somebody who always gave it 100%. Will miss him.

[underrated29]

Did you see him drop that ball on MNF last night? Felt just like old times.

I didnt see him dive for any balls. Old times indeed.

[underrated29]

Even if that's true, it's still beneath Elway to sling that dirt on the way out. You run the franchise. Be the professional.

manny requested a trade. Elway honored that. Also got us some pics (more than a comp would have been) and freed up cap space. Whats the problem?

[BroncoWave]

manny requested a trade. Elway honored that. Also got us some pics (more than a comp would have been) and freed up cap space. Whats the problem?

Elway taking a veiled shot at him on the way out.

[LawDog]

Even if that's true, it's still beneath Elway to sling that dirt on the way out. You run the franchise. Be the professional.

Not taking a position on Elway, but he wasn't slinging shit. He answered a question, said both sides had issues. Felt trade was in best interest of team at this point, and wouldn't get into specifics of what issues were. That's pretty damn professional...

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Not taking a position on Elway, but he wasn't slinging shit. He answered a question, said both sides had issues. Felt trade was in best interest of team at this point, and wouldn't get into specifics of what issues were. That's pretty damn professional...

Great post

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Elway: Trading Sanders to 49ers was 'the best thing for our football team'

https://www.denverbroncos.com/news/elway-trading-sanders-to-49ers-was-the-best-thing-for-our-football-team

[wayninja]

Again, I'm done with Elway. As long as he's here, I'll just doubt anything said about the best interest of the football team. Sometimes the best thing you can do for someone/something else is to walk away.

[BroncoWave]

Not taking a position on Elway, but he wasn't slinging shit. He answered a question, said both sides had issues. Felt trade was in best interest of team at this point, and wouldn't get into specifics of what issues were. That's pretty damn professional...

He didn't have to mention that there was an issue in the Tennessee game at all. He gave the media plenty to dig up just by throwing that out there. And he gets to look "professional" while doing it.

[MOtorboat]

It was terrible. And even if he hadn't received a single offer for CHJ - lie to us and drum up a market for him. And how is it even under consideration that they wouldn't bring Lock off of IR? He's like, "oh yeah Tim Patrick is for sure coming off IR - but Lock? Ehhh we don't know. We may want to see how Flacco performs in weeks 12-17."

Salary restructure. Doubt Lock plays this year. Flacco probably starts next year too. Rinse. Repeat.

[BroncoWave]

Salary restructure. Doubt Lock plays this year. Flacco probably starts next year too. Rinse. Repeat.

If Lock doesn't play this year I'm 100% on board the fire Elway train.

[Edmonton Bronco Fan]

Elway's statement is disgusting and devoid of anything other than his egotistical self serving crap.

Manny was "nice" and did a "good job". What a soulless husk of an executive we have.

[ShaneFalco]

let me get this straight. Sanu went for a 2nd, but we only got a 3rd and 4th lol

[BroncoWave]

let me get this straight. Sanu went for a 2nd, but we only got a 3rd and 4th lol

Sanu is under contract next year, Sanders isn't. Teams aren't paying a premium for a 9 game rental. Plus, that second round pick will likely be 64th overall. That's not much different than a 3rd and 4th.

[MOtorboat]

let me get this straight. Sanu went for a 2nd, but we only got a 3rd and 4th lol

Because Sanu is under contract for next year and Sanders isn’t. Sanu was always going to draw a bigger haul.

[MOtorboat]

If Lock doesn't play this year I'm 100% on board the fire Elway train.

I’m basically there now.

[ShaneFalco]

Sanu is a scrub compared to Sanders.

[Cugel]

Quote Originally Posted by Buff "And how is it even under consideration that they wouldn't bring Lock off of IR? He's like, "oh yeah Tim Patrick is for sure coming off IR - but Lock? Ehhh we don't know. We may want to see how Flacco performs in weeks 12-17."

They get 2 and only 2 IR players they can designate to return. Elway knows that the fans will crucify him if he doesn't bring back Drew Lock and it's just a totally wasted season, but he doesn't care.

His idiot ego trumps everything. He's still on the Joe Flacco train. Only that train fell off the track and crashed into a ravine and burned on Thursday night.

I think the Colts game is going to be a wakeup call though. He's still holding out hope that "we can get this turned around this season."

Rather like a man who has his dumpster catch on fire, and tries to put it out and salvage all the partially burned trash that in the dumpster.

However, despite Elway's intransigent idiocy, it's not going to work. This team is not going to win in Indy or at Buffalo. They are going 2-7 on their way to whatever miserable record of 6-10 or worse they wind up with. They might not deal Chris Harris, but they damn well better activate Drew Lock.

If not, then Elway better get used to watching about 20,000 no shows for the remaining home games.

[Cugel]

Here's a question for those of you with tickets to the Lions or Raiders games in December.

Assume that the record at this point is perhaps 3-11 or something. They have 2 winnable games against the Lions and Raiders.

Will you go to those games? Or will you try and sell your tickets?

[chazoe60]

We should use the money we saved by trading ES to resign Simmons because that dude is easily the best player on this team.

[Davii]

Sanu is a scrub compared to Sanders.

Go read their posts again, let it soak in.... Mo and BW are 100% correct.

[MOtorboat]

Sanu is a scrub compared to Sanders.

He has more yards and more touchdowns the last three seasons. And Sanu was a No. 3 while Sanders was a No. 1.

[Dapper Dan]

Lynch in charge. Shanahan running the team. The niners are everything the broncos could have been.

[Dapper Dan]

Did you see him drop that ball on MNF last night? Felt just like old times.

Not as often as Elway has dropped the ball in the offseason.

[BroncoWave]

Lynch in charge. Shanahan running the team. The niners are everything the broncos could have been.

Guess we should really savor and appreciate those Manning years. We might not see anything like that again for a long long time.

[Nomad]

WoW! I guess Elway fooled me. I didn't think he'd do it. SF is a pretty good team.

Best of luck to Sanders. Thanks for being a Bronco.

[tomjonesrocks]

I’m surprised at my disinterest in this move. I liked Sanders - was a very good/borderline great receiver for the Broncos. Certainly no ill will.

Midway into the 3rd year of a terrible product on the field though emotionally I’m just not that invested. However, I can hope I’m moving up on the season ticket list...

Happy trails Emmanuel -

[tomjonesrocks]

Guess we should really savor and appreciate those Manning years. We might not see anything like that again for a long long time.

Took 17 years to get another SB win after 33. Even if Elway gets fired as GM he went to 2 SB’s, winning one. That’s still going to be legendary in the rear view mirror.

I kind of wish he’d “step away to spend time with family” while Manning is still looking for work. Assume more of a figurehead role if he’s unwilling to totally step away. If Manning succeeds, Elway is a hero for owning his failures and willing transition to continued success. If Manning failed, everyone would say “Elway was under-appreciated in hindsight”.

[BroncoWave]

I'm not sure if Manning is the answer either. We all love the guy, but he'd be a total crapshoot running a team for the first time.

[Simple Jaded]

So, they’re trying to win games but trading their best offensive weapon? What could go wrong?

Having said that ... bye Felicia.

[Simple Jaded]

Not as often as Elway has dropped the ball in the offseason.

Shots fired!!!!!!!

Dapper has left the tube!

Brace for impact.

[Simple Jaded]

Salary restructure. Doubt Lock plays this year. Flacco probably starts next year too. Rinse. Repeat.

MO is right, imo, Elway keeps going out of his way to say they’re still trying to win games and I believe him, so barring injury, starting Lock at any point this season just doesn’t fit that narrative.

[Poet]

Elway is scared to rebuild and I don't know why. But he's clearly afraid of it.

[Simple Jaded]

Should be adding players if you’re trying to win games, I’m not saying ... I’m just saying.

[Simple Jaded]

Elway is scared to rebuild and I don't know why. But he's clearly afraid of it.

Winning in the short term is more important to Elway than building methodically, no win is meaningless. I am so over that see-through faded bullshit.

#EightAndEightIsOverrated

[Poet]

Winning in the short term is more important to Elway than building methodically, no win is meaningless. I am so over that see-through faded bullshit.

The Flacco restructure that early, before we knew what we had with this team...that's enough to be firable.

I'm so sick of it man. I got shouted down for calling for a rebuild after the SB, and I said the only reason to put it off was if you were going to reload with guys like Campbell or Whitworth. We did the opposite. We hit 9-7 off of the fumes of that defense. It was downhill ever since. Rebuilds are like credit card bills, you can delay them for so long but eventually you pay the price. The rebuild could very well be over if we had just done it already.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Very interesting stuff. Here is one thing - much more


“Yes, he did,” the Broncos general manager said when asked if Sanders requested a trade.

After the press conference, the timing of that request was revealed.

Mike Klis
‏Verified account @MikeKlis
6h6 hours ago

Per sources, Sanders met with coach Vic Fangio last Monday and general manager John Elway last Tuesday and let them know if team could get value in return, he would be open to trade. Elway let Sanders know he would try to accomodate. Given this, Elway got nice value. #9sports

full article - https://1043thefan.com/2084172/did-the-broncos-trade-emmanuel-sanders-because-he-quit-on-the-team/?show=comments

[Poet]

Better trade Flacco then. We literally watched him quit on the team. While he was on the field.

[Davii]

I'm not sure if Manning is the answer either. We all love the guy, but he'd be a total crapshoot running a team for the first time.

Great, proven, GMs aren't really available.

[Poet]

Great, proven, GMs aren't really available.

You and me, buddy. Let's tag team this shit.

[BroncoWave]

Great, proven, GMs aren't really available.

Sure, but there are probably plenty of young hungry assistant GMs out there looking for their shot to run a team. I think I'd rather go that route than hope that Manning can do it.

[Northman]

Salary restructure. Doubt Lock plays this year. Flacco probably starts next year too. Rinse. Repeat.

If this team is beyond out of the playoff picture and Lock doesnt play a down John definitely needs to go. He's lost his ******* mind when it comes to Flacco right now.

[Davii]

Elway is scared to rebuild and I don't know why. But he's clearly afraid of it.

No he's not.

How long does he plan on doing this?

How long would a rebuild take?

Is it worth it to him? Does he have time to see it through?

[Northman]

Better trade Flacco then. We literally watched him quit on the team. While he was on the field.

Yep, if quitting on your team draws that much ire from JE than Flacco is the poster child for it. Problem is, no team wants a quitter like Flacco at this point.

[Davii]

Sure, but there are probably plenty of young hungry assistant GMs out there looking for their shot to run a team. I think I'd rather go that route than hope that Manning can do it.

Lynch is doing a good job. He tutored under Elway. Why not think the same could happen?

[Poet]

Lynch is doing a good job. He tutored under Elway. Why not think the same could happen?

Because going for a retread/returning hero is kind of the Bronco's mantra, and man I feel like it needs to stop.

[BroncoWave]

Lynch is doing a good job. He tutored under Elway. Why not think the same could happen?

I wouldn't hate it, just a little gunshy about replacing one QB legend GM with another.

[Davii]

Because going for a retread/returning hero is kind of the Bronco's mantra, and man I feel like it needs to stop.

Not disagreeing with you, there's no surefire solution though. If there were everyone would be doing it.

Not to mention it will be hard to find a worthwhile candidate willing to work with our ownership hole, etc.

[Poet]

Not disagreeing with you, there's no surefire solution though. If there were everyone would be doing it.

Not to mention it will be hard to find a worthwhile candidate willing to work with our ownership hole, etc.

I feel you, Davii.

[dogfish]

Great, proven, GMs aren't really available.

true. . . there is one interesting guy out there, though. . . scot mccloughan, who helped build the harbaugh niners, and the super bowl seahawks. . . he was part of the browns front office for the mayfield draft, and is now running a private scouting firm. . .

other names that could be worth consideration. . . george kokonis and vincent newsome with baltimore, omar khan in pittsburgh, adam peters from san francisco. . . nick caserio in new england is also considered a rising star. . . i want freaking nothing to do with anyone from that organization, though. . .

[Poet]

How many GM's were great GM's before they were given the chance?

It's madness to expect this front office to change its ways. We got blown out by a team with their backup QB in. The QB our GM thinks is so wonderful and in his prime quit on the team. I just see sad times ahead. Buckle up my boys.

[Poet]

No he's not.

How long does he plan on doing this?

How long would a rebuild take?

Is it worth it to him? Does he have time to see it through?

Yeah, he is. He's had ample opportunity to rebuild and he hasn't. That's a fact.

He's had at least three years since the SB. So he's had time. A rebuild typically takes between two and four years. If it's not worth it to him to do his job right, then he should leave. By not rebuilding, he's not done his job well. He's had the time to see it through, too.

[LawDog]

Hypothetically, Elway stays as Pres of Football Shit and gives up GM Stuff, who then is out there to be GM? Mike Shannahan? Seriously, who?

[Elevation inc]

This is almost certainly a lie. And an odd lie at that. I'd think he'd want to give teams the impression that there is a lot of interest in him.

To be fair if were honest with ourselves, Harris has had a pretty bad year so far except for the Chargers game and a little better in the Tennessee game. Perhaps teams have noticed as well.

[MOtorboat]

Hypothetically, Elway stays as Pres of Football Shit and gives up GM Stuff, who then is out there to be GM? Mike Shannahan? Seriously, who?

There are ALWAYS GM candidates. There are plenty of underlings all over the league ready to get their shot. Stop thinking these guys aren’t replaceable.

[Elevation inc]

Yep, if quitting on your team draws that much ire from JE than Flacco is the poster child for it. Problem is, no team wants a quitter like Flacco at this point.

The NFL and especially the ravens already knew last year flacco was done, we were the only idiots to think we could change him....That's how Denver operates rather build a team the right way we just put band-aids on and think magical things will happen as a result.....

[dogfish]

We should use the money we saved by trading ES to resign Simmons because that dude is easily the best player on this team.

not sure about all that, but they definitely need to make him the next priority for an extension. . . git 'er done!




If this team is beyond out of the playoff picture and Lock doesnt play a down John definitely needs to go. He's lost his ******* mind when it comes to Flacco right now.

yea. . . if he still views joe as any sort of long term answer. . . man, i can't even!



If it's not worth it to him to do his job right, then he should leave.

agree with this part, for sure. . . if he won't rebuild around a young QB, then he needs to be replaced with someone who will. . . this "trying to win now" with garbage QBs, sub-par coaches and a crap O-line has to stop. . . that's not a plan. . .

[dogfish]

Hypothetically, Elway stays as Pres of Football Shit and gives up GM Stuff, who then is out there to be GM? Mike Shannahan? Seriously, who?

#McCloughan2020

[Elevation inc]

Lynch is doing a good job. He tutored under Elway. Why not think the same could happen?

Lynch is doing similar things Elway did early (making bold moves to push for a ring), Lynch will be good. Elway has had a good run, The restructure, and refusal to see Flacco for what he is is mind-blowing right now....it really is probably time to move on from Elway. Bowlen Loved Elway, we love Elway but there is no way in hell, Bowlen would tolerate heading for our worst 3 year stretch since 1970-1972.....Something has to give.....

[MOtorboat]

#McCloughan2020

...Joe Douglas, Eliot Wolf, George Paton, Mike Borganzi, Joe Hortiz...

There’s plenty of GM candidates.

[wayninja]

There are ALWAYS GM candidates. There are plenty of underlings all over the league ready to get their shot. Stop thinking these guys aren’t replaceable.

If we are going to let a pizza delivery guy be our punter....

[Valar Morghulis]

It’s not Elway’s fault..... it’s those damn football gods

Elway is but a man, a demigod at best, this is his Herculean tribulations, he is but Sisyphus....oh the cruel gods

[Poet]

I’m a big ole fan of accountability.

John has none. Who puts the fire to him?

[Elevation inc]

We need Brittany Bowlen to get her shit together to hold some people accountable.....:lol:

[Simple Jaded]

Hypothetically, Elway stays as Pres of Football Shit and gives up GM Stuff, who then is out there to be GM? Mike Shannahan? Seriously, who?

I like Scot McCloughan for anything but picking QB’s.

[Poet]

How drunk does John (allegedly) get?

[Hawgdriver]

There are ALWAYS GM candidates. There are plenty of underlings all over the league ready to get their shot. Stop thinking these guys aren’t replaceable.

Do we want the replacememt the 'process' would generate?

Maybe we do. Maybe the process works.

[Hawgdriver]

How drunk does John (allegedly) get?

I'll take the heat for throwing out that garbage rumor. That's all it is. There are some tmz and other clips where John is sauced, but who doesn't get lit every now and then.

This is my crackpot theory, ok...Farve, Kosar, lots of these dudes from this era are prone to CTE/ALS. You think QB, no big deal, right? Ken Stabler, autopsied stage 3. That dude didn't play near as much as Elway.

Then there's the fix you get from playing NFL ball. When that's gone there's a tendency to replace it.

These factors often lead to mental health issues.

I don't know that any of this is more than rank speculation. Just don't know one way or the other, but see some things and let intuition run free.

So it's an unknown but real probability that's just flapping around out there.

[The Glue Factory]

I'll take the heat for throwing out that garbage rumor. That's all it is. There are some tmz and other clips where John is sauced, but who doesn't get lit every now and then.

This is my crackpot theory, ok...Farve, Kosar, lots of these dudes from this era are prone to CTE/ALS. You think QB, no big deal, right? Ken Stabler, autopsied stage 3. That dude didn't play near as much as Elway.

Then there's the fix you get from playing NFL ball. When that's gone there's a tendency to replace it.

These factors often lead to mental health issues.

I don't know that any of this is more than rank speculation. Just don't know one way or the other, but see some things and let intuition run free.

So it's an unknown but real probability that's just flapping around out there.

Lest we forget that Elway was the most sacked QB in NFL history when he retired.

[wayninja]

If only we could sack him one last time.

[LawDog]

There are ALWAYS GM candidates. There are plenty of underlings all over the league ready to get their shot. Stop thinking these guys aren’t replaceable.

Who said anything about irreplaceable? Read my post again. I'm asking for names of these "underlings" all over that you all think would be a good fit as GM of the Broncos.

[LawDog]

...Joe Douglas, Eliot Wolf, George Paton, Mike Borganzi, Joe Hortiz...

There’s plenty of GM candidates.

Follow up question, what is it about these guys that you like?

[wayninja]

Follow up question, what is it about these guys that you like?

They don't have a brand loyalty stranglehold over the city in which they (potentially) operate?

[LawDog]

They don't have a brand loyalty stranglehold over the city in which they (potentially) operate?

Like John Lynch in SF?

[wayninja]

Like John Lynch in SF?

Just like anyone who isn't a legendary sports icon for the particular market.

[BroncoWave]

Just like anyone who isn't a legendary sports icon for the particular market.

If we do get rid of Elway eventually, I'd definitely want to bring in someone with no ties whatsoever to the Denver good old boys club. That's my one hangup with Manning, that he'd also get the hero worship and hang around longer than he should. If we're going to start over, I want to find the smartest, hungriest young assistant GM we can get and start a new culture here. The more we try to cling to the past, the worse I think it's going to get.

[Valar Morghulis]

If we do get rid of Elway eventually, I'd definitely want to bring in someone with no ties whatsoever to the Denver good old boys club. That's my one hangup with Manning, that he'd also get the hero worship and hang around longer than he should. If we're going to start over, I want to find the smartest, hungriest young assistant GM we can get and start a new culture here. The more we try to cling to the past, the worse I think it's going to get.

What if PFM was the youngest, hungriest most intelligent candidate......... would you bite your nose off to spite your face.......?

You probably would you hideous bugger

[MOtorboat]

Follow up question, what is it about these guys that you like?

They’re finding talent for winning teams.

[MOtorboat]

Do we want the replacememt the 'process' would generate?

Maybe we do. Maybe the process works.

This is similar to the “we don’t need draft picks because our GM sucks” argument. Of course you need draft picks. You don’t stop acquiring picks because you made bad ones before. And if you continue to make bad draft picks you change the people who are making the decisions on the draft picks. There’s always risk, but when you stop taking risks just for continuity, despite being a bad football team, then you get the situation that the Browns, the Jets and the Raiders have been in. Cleveland, for their part, took a risk and is trying the moneyball approach with Paul Depodesta. That’s even riskier than what I think Denver should do, and that’s just find a solid up-and-coming GM candidate and let him hire his scouts.

[ShaneFalco]

Should have traded Sanders to Indy for Chad Kelly. Would have made more sense

[BroncoWave]

Should have traded Sanders to Indy for Chad Kelly. Would have made more sense

You have a sickness.

[Buff]

Should have traded Sanders to Indy for Chad Kelly. Would have made more sense

Except that you don't have to offer compensation for practice squad players. Guy could be had by all 31 other GMs right this very second. #vacuumtube

[dogfish]

Should have traded Sanders to Indy for Chad Kelly. Would have made more sense

well, yea. . .



except for the part where you don't trade for a guy that you don't want. . .


especially when he's a loser who you already got rid of. . .

[Davii]

well, yea. . .



except for the part where you don't trade for a guy that you don't want. . .


especially when he's a loser who you already got rid of. . .

And you don't have to trade for him. Like Buff pointed out, he's on the practice squad, all ANY team that wants him has to do is sign him

[underrated29]

And you don't have to trade for him. Like Buff pointed out, he's on the practice squad, all ANY team that wants him has to do is sign him

No. We trade Gawdammit!

[slim]

And you don't have to trade for him. Like Buff pointed out, he's on the practice squad, all ANY team that wants him has to do is sign him

Why do the Colts have their best QB on the PS?

That seems strange.

[atwater27]

I heard (and this probably isnt breaking news), that Elway took deep personal offense to Emmanuel Sanders tongue in cheek criticism of Joe Flacco and traded him for daring to question his epic QB evaluating skills.

[Simple Jaded]

I'll take the heat for throwing out that garbage rumor. That's all it is. There are some tmz and other clips where John is sauced, but who doesn't get lit every now and then.

This is my crackpot theory, ok...Farve, Kosar, lots of these dudes from this era are prone to CTE/ALS. You think QB, no big deal, right? Ken Stabler, autopsied stage 3. That dude didn't play near as much as Elway.

Then there's the fix you get from playing NFL ball. When that's gone there's a tendency to replace it.

These factors often lead to mental health issues.

I don't know that any of this is more than rank speculation. Just don't know one way or the other, but see some things and let intuition run free.

So it's an unknown but real probability that's just flapping around out there.

My wife is a nurse who’s hospital unit took care of Janet during her cancer scare, he was always Hammered Wan Kenobi when he’d visit.

[Poet]

My wife is a nurse who’s hospital unit took care of Janet during her cancer scare, he was always Sober Wan Kenobi when he’d visit.

Wait...you convinced someone with a knowledge and science and math to marry you?

I...I....there's hope!

[Simple Jaded]

Wait...you convinced someone with a knowledge and science and math to marry you?

I...I....there's hope!

Dude ... I got game for days.

#PEMDAS

[Poet]

Dude ... I got game for days.

#PEMDAS

:beer:

[Cugel]

6 teams reportedly interested in trading for Chris Harris, but the Broncos asking price is reportedly too high. 104.3 The Fan.

[ShaneFalco]

well, yea. . .



except for the part where you don't trade for a guy that you don't want. . .


especially when he's a loser who you already got rid of. . .

it doesnt make any sense, but it still makes more sense then trading for flacco last season

[SR]

Wait...you convinced someone with a knowledge and science and math to marry you?

I...I....there's hope!

My wife is a nurse too!

[SR]

Dude ... I got game for days.

#PEMDAS

I know what PEMDAS means. Scoring points left and right today. My math skillz are strong.

[ShaneFalco]

i hope elway doesnt trade for andy dalton today

[SR]

i hope elway doesnt trade for andy dalton today

I wouldn't put it past him.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

6 teams reportedly interested in trading for Chris Harris, but the Broncos asking price is reportedly too high. 104.3 The Fan.

No, I was listening to The Fan also, and they did not know any of the details. They were speculating if the asking price was too high, or if what they were being offered was too low.

and there is this:


Mike Klis
‏Verified account @MikeKlis
38m38 minutes ago

Lions were only team that made offer for Chris Harris Jr. Their offer was not as good as 3rd-round pick. Eagles expressed interest in Harris but never got to point of making an offer. By keeping him, Broncos figure to get 3rd compensatory draft pick for Harris in 2021. #9sports

[BroncoWave]

Should have traded him a month ago. Everyone who needed a CB got one the last few weeks and CHJ lost value. This was a miss by Elway.

[Buff]

Should have traded him a month ago. Everyone who needed a CB got one the last few weeks and CHJ lost value. This was a miss by Elway.

He was never going to fetch more than a 3rd even if it was for 75% of the season as opposed to a 50% season rental. The compensatory pick was always the play.

[BroncoWave]

He was never going to fetch more than a 3rd even if it was for 75% of the season as opposed to a 50% season rental. The compensatory pick was always the play.

He probably could have gotten a third before the market dried up. Even a late third would be slightly better than a comp pick.

[BroncoWave]

Also banking on a comp pick comes with risk. If he shreds his ACL he might not get a good enough contract to get us a third round comp pick.

[Northman]

Should have traded him a month ago. Everyone who needed a CB got one the last few weeks and CHJ lost value. This was a miss by Elway.

Harris will probably leave at season's end anyway because i doubt Denver will give him a big contract with his age being what it is.

[underrated29]

Should have traded him a month ago. Everyone who needed a CB got one the last few weeks and CHJ lost value. This was a miss by Elway.

Im not sure. I thought it was. BUt apparently we are either dead set on getting that 3rd as a comp or are going to make him a sick offer! Which he deserves for the years he was underpaid.

[Cugel]

Lions offered "less than a third round pick" -- Altitude Sports 92.5 reports -- and they were the only ones who made a hard offer. Philly was in extended discussions but never made an offer.

The Broncos are expected to get a 3rd round compensatory pick in 2021 once he's signed by another team as a FA. If the offer from the Lions was a 5th then they shouldn't have traded him. So, Elway was right on this on.

I'm kicking him around generally, but he gets a pass on this one. They needed to get a 2nd for him if they were going to deal him. NO B.S. 4th or 5th round offers! Stupid Lions and Eagles. :mad:

[BroncoWave]

Lions offered "less than a third round pick" -- Altitude Sports 92.5 reports -- and they were the only ones who made a hard offer. Philly was in extended discussions but never made an offer.

The Broncos are expected to get a 3rd round compensatory pick in 2021 once he's signed by another team as a FA. If the offer from the Lions was a 5th then they shouldn't have traded him. So, Elway was right on this on.

I'm kicking him around generally, but he gets a pass on this one. They needed to get a 2nd for him if they were going to deal him. NO B.S. 4th or 5th round offers! Stupid Lions and Eagles. :mad:

A third rounder still would have been better than a comp pick, because even the 32nd pick in the third round is higher than the best comp pick. And you eliminate the risk of his value dropping and not netting us that 3rd round comp pick we were expecting.

I just have a hard time believing that at no point over the last month could he have gotten a 3rd for him.

[Poet]

If a team is going to pony up for a high level corner, the Lions/Darius Slay is going to be more attractive than CHJ.

Yikes!

[Simple Jaded]

The Broncos did nothing ... that’s an 8-8 organization.

[Simple Jaded]

I know what PEMDAS means. Scoring points left and right today. My math skillz are strong.

Not that PEMDAS.

Please
Excuse
My
Dope
Ass
Swag

[Traveler]

CHJ wants to determine his worth in FA. Should the Broncos pay him? Or would that type of money be better spent on someone like Byron Jones, the CB from DAL if he becomes available?

[Simple Jaded]

CHJ wants to determine his worth in FA. Should the Broncos pay him? Or would that type of money be better spent on someone like Byron Jones, the CB from DAL if he becomes available?

I’ll go with Jones.

[Simple Jaded]

I’ll go with Jones.

And Harris.

[Simple Jaded]

The Broncos should’ve called the Jets and took Bell off their cap for a 2nd round pick, ala Brent/Browns and Talib/Phins ... I bet Gase would’ve taken the bait.

[Davii]

The Broncos should’ve called the Jets and took Bell off their cap for a 2nd round pick, ala Brent/Browns and Talib/Phins ... I bet Gase would’ve taken the bait.

Why?

[MOtorboat]

The Broncos should’ve called the Jets and took Bell off their cap for a 2nd round pick, ala Brent/Browns and Talib/Phins ... I bet Gase would’ve taken the bait.

https://media.giphy.com/media/wYyTHMm50f4Dm/giphy.gif

[BroncoWave]

That would have been a fine move if Bell didn't have so much guaranteed money next year. That kind of trade really only works if you can get rid of the contract after this season.

[MOtorboat]

That would have been a fine move if Bell didn't have so much guaranteed money next year. That kind of trade really only works if you can get rid of the contract after this season.

Why would you trade for a rental at 2-6?

[BroncoWave]

Why would you trade for a rental at 2-6?

You're trading for the second round pick.

[MOtorboat]

You're trading for the second round pick.

I’m confused. You think the Jets would trade Le’veon Bell and a second to Denver for ... cash?

[BroncoWave]

I’m confused. You think the Jets would trade Le’veon Bell and a second to Denver for ... cash?

We'd send back a lower pick. It's the exact same thing the Texans did, trading Brock and a 2 to Cleveland for a lower pick. You're doing it to dump a bad contract for cap relief.

[MOtorboat]

We'd send back a lower pick. It's the exact same thing the Texans did, trading Brock and a 2 to Cleveland for a lower pick. You're doing it to dump a bad contract for cap relief.

I don’t think that’s a trade the Jets were looking to make, though.

[BroncoWave]

I don’t think that’s a trade the Jets were looking to make, though.

Probably not, but it does seem like salary dump trades have slowly been making their way into the NFL from the NBA. It's possible the Jets are regretting that contract now.

[Poet]

Bell still looks like he's a pretty solid RB, but he's not what he was. He's also a RB. Investing in a RB isn't a great idea. IDK.

Let's just eat some mother ******* cake.

[MOtorboat]

Probably not, but it does seem like salary dump trades have slowly been making their way into the NFL from the NBA. It's possible the Jets are regretting that contract now.

Maybe, but I don’t really understand why Denver would want to take on the dead money. Or deal with a malcontent at a position they’re actually decent at.

[BroncoWave]

Maybe, but I don’t really understand why Denver would want to take on the dead money. Or deal with a malcontent at a position they’re actually decent at.

In the fantasy world where this trade happens, I don't think Bell actually ever plays here. They just cut him and eat the cap hit for the second round pick. If you're fully committing to a total rebuild, it's probably feasible since you'd probably have a lot of guys on rookie contracts going forward and could afford to absorb the cap hit.

[Davii]

Probably not, but it does seem like salary dump trades have slowly been making their way into the NFL from the NBA. It's possible the Jets are regretting that contract now.

I'm SURE they're regretting it. I highly doubt they're regretting it that much and I'm certain we'd regret it if we were to make such a trade.

[Poet]

I'm SURE they're regretting it. I highly doubt they're regretting it that much and I'm certain we'd regret it if we were to make such a trade.

Bell is one of my favorite RBs in recent memory. But good lord they paid big money to a guy who hadn't played awhile. And to a RB. Who the **** pays a RB these days? The Cowboys? Ugh.

[BroncoWave]

I'm SURE they're regretting it. I highly doubt they're regretting it that much and I'm certain we'd regret it if we were to make such a trade.

Like I said, if we were to make such a trade, it wouldn't be to play Bell. We'd basically be trading short term cap space for a second round pick with building for the future in mind.

[Davii]

Like I said, if we were to make such a trade, it wouldn't be to play Bell. We'd basically be trading short term cap space for a second round pick with building for the future in mind.

It wouldn't be short term though.

[BroncoWave]

It wouldn't be short term though.

Pretty much all his cap hit is this year and next. 25 mil this year, 17 next year, then 4 and 2 the last 2 years. It's really front loaded. So if you're committed to rebuilding next year you could probably absorb that hit.

[Poet]

I deem both arguments to have merit and am undecided in this hypothetical.

I am also going to eat a late lunch now.

Thank you for your concern.

- Abe Lincoln.

[Simple Jaded]

Most of Bell’s remaining guaranteed money is roster bonuses, a trade at deadline would’ve saved them $7 M in cap space but left them with $2 M in dead money.

Broncos could then cut Bell designated Post June 1st in 2020 and save $500.000 with a $15 M dead cap hit.

Broncos have a bagillion dollars in cap space in ‘20.

[Poet]

Most of Bell’s remaining guaranteed money is roster bonuses, a trade at deadline would’ve saved them $7 M in cap space but left them with $2 M in dead money.

Broncos could the cut Bell designated Post June 1st in 2020 and save $500.000 with a $15 M dead cap hit.

Broncos have a bagillion dollars in cap space in ‘20.

I'd rather spend that money on lineman, tbh.

I'd rather spend it on an established TE or a WR, too. RB is a decent position for us.

I disagree with you, which means I'm probably wrong.

[MOtorboat]

Most of Bell’s remaining guaranteed money is roster bonuses, a trade at deadline would’ve saved them $7 M in cap space but left them with $2 M in dead money.

Broncos could then cut Bell designated Post June 1st in 2020 and save $500.000 with a $15 M dead cap hit.

Broncos have a bagillion dollars in cap space in ‘20.

Oh just stahp.

[Simple Jaded]

Oh just stahp.

MO I’m playing chess and Elway is playing tic-tac-toe.

[MOtorboat]

MO I’m playing chess and Elway is playing tic-tac-toe.

Nah.

[Simple Jaded]

I'd rather spend that money on lineman, tbh.

I'd rather spend it on an established TE or a WR, too. RB is a decent position for us.

I disagree with you, which means I'm probably wrong.

The Broncos have more space than the Jets, they can absorb the hit and still make moves.

[Simple Jaded]

Nah.

Be reasonable!

[Hawgdriver]

Someone said part of Elway's issue is his jealously over his legacy as the Broncos QB. Rookie records, etc. Jealous when it comes to Brock, Lock, etc. Weird theory and super personal. But I know the personality type, and that kind of egoism isn't unusual.

[Poet]

The Broncos have more space than the Jets, they can absorb the hit and still make moves.

Why absorb it for a position that's not a need. To be honest, we've gotten some decent production out of our backs with lousy QB's, declines at WR, and horrendous line play, and shoddy TE play. Why bother adding a big name and top dollar at that position? I'd like to see our RB's produce with even one of those things fixed. I bet it'd be pretty sweet.

[Simple Jaded]

Why absorb it for a position that's not a need. To be honest, we've gotten some decent production out of our backs with lousy QB's, declines at WR, and horrendous line play, and shoddy TE play. Why bother adding a big name and top dollar at that position? I'd like to see our RB's produce with even one of those things fixed. I bet it'd be pretty sweet.

I don’t care if they keep him, probably best not to.

[Northman]

Someone said part of Elway's issue is his jealously over his legacy as the Broncos QB. Rookie records, etc. Jealous when it comes to Brock, Lock, etc. Weird theory and super personal. But I know the personality type, and that kind of egoism isn't unusual.

Im actually starting to warm up to that more and more. I hate to believe it but its really the only thing that makes any kind of sense at this point.

[Northman]

Bell still looks like he's a pretty solid RB, but he's not what he was. He's also a RB. Investing in a RB isn't a great idea. IDK.

Let's just eat some mother ******* cake.

Why would you want a player who gets suspended every other game for smoking weed? Horrible idea...

[BroncoWave]

This last page or two shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what was being suggested in this hypothetical Bell trade. No one wants to trade for Bell to play him. It's to take whatever pick the Jets would give us to absolve his contract. If we're truly committing to tearing this thing down and rebuilding, a 15 mil cap hit next year, in a year we're not trying to compete anyway, would be completely worth this hypothetical draft pick the Jets would send with him. We'd never actually play Bell. We'd trade for him and just cut him immediately. This isn't that difficult. Jaded gets it.

[Northman]

Well, except that John says we are competing every year. The rebuild fantasy is just in your heads, not the reality of the situation.

[Poet]

This last page or two shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what was being suggested in this hypothetical Bell trade. No one wants to trade for Bell to play him. It's to take whatever pick the Jets would give us to absolve his contract. If we're truly committing to tearing this thing down and rebuilding, a 15 mil cap hit next year, in a year we're not trying to compete anyway, would be completely worth this hypothetical draft pick the Jets would send with him. We'd never actually play Bell. We'd trade for him and just cut him immediately. This isn't that difficult. Jaded gets it.

Ah - an NBA trade. I gotcha now.

[BroncoWave]

Ah - an NBA trade. I gotcha now.

Right. It's exactly what the Texans did sending Brock to Cleveland and the Rams sending Talib to Miami.

[Poet]

Right. It's exactly what the Texans did sending Brock to Cleveland and the Rams sending Talib to Miami.

I gotcha. I just spaced on it I guess.

[Cugel]

Default

This last page or two shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what was being suggested in this hypothetical Bell trade. No one wants to trade for Bell to play him. It's to take whatever pick the Jets would give us to absolve his contract. If we're truly committing to tearing this thing down and rebuilding, a 15 mil cap hit next year, in a year we're not trying to compete anyway, would be completely worth this hypothetical draft pick the Jets would send with him. We'd never actually play Bell. We'd trade for him and just cut him immediately. This isn't that difficult. Jaded gets it.

That's the brilliant move the Cleveland Browns made in trading for Brock Osweiler, getting a 2nd round pick from the Texans to take his salary off their books, and then dumping Osweiler and keeping the pick for cash.

If the team is going to be dramatically under the cap because they are not signing ageing veterans then perhaps it could be a viable strategy.

But, Cleveland only had so much room under the cap because they are a shithole team that was not spending most of their cap before (no FAs ever wanted to go there) so they had a ton of money they weren't spending.

The Broncos are always tight up against the cap and will probably re-sign several high priced veterans for next season.

For instance, Justin Simmons' rookie deal is expiring and the Broncos will have to compete with every other team to re-sign him (Elway always waits for some reason and it always costs him more), but the Broncos are high on Simmons and will make it a priority to re-sign him.

So, that will eat up a chunk.

Next year Ron Leary is expected to make $8m on his contract but his dead cap hit is now $875k so there is no way Ron Leary will be back at $8m.

He's been injured his entire time and a busted investment like so many other Elway FA decisions. So, throw in Broncos who won't be returning like Chris Harris $12m, Derek Wolfe $10.9m, Emannuel Sanders $6m.

But, they will need to try again and find a serviceable RT in FA because JuWuan James is getting paid $13m next year to sit on IR all season. He's never going to be healthy and that's another Elway bust.

But, it's also a problem because they have to replace Garrett Bolles -- Elway's 2nd worst 1st round BUST second only to Lynch. He simply cannot stay at LT and Fangio will sit him as soon as they feel they have any option -- which won't be this season with James on IR.

So, they will need to be very active in FA just to fill gaping holes in the starting lineup where FA veterans are departing and they don't have anybody to fill in.

So, they'll need: #1 CB, #2 CB because Bryce Callahan was another of Elway's brilliant decisions -- he's never healthy and they have to pay him $12m rather than pay Chris Harris. Elway decided to give the money it would take to re-sign Chris Harris to Bryce Callahan. As a result Harris is leaving at the end of the year so the Broncos have a GIANT HOLE to fill on the defense.

Incredibly stupid decision on Elway's part again.

But, the bottom line is that the team won't have any extra cash to spend on veteran players they don't absolutely need. They will need all their money to fill various holes.

The Broncos will not have enough draft picks to replace all the departing players this year. So, they will be active in FA (not for the highest priced veterans though).

[Hawgdriver]

Im actually starting to warm up to that more and more. I hate to believe it but its really the only thing that makes any kind of sense at this point.

All kinds of crazy theories come out when a team is doing so poorly.

[Simple Jaded]

Well, except that John says we are competing every year. The rebuild fantasy is just in your heads, not the reality of the situation.

Yeah but the cash poor/dysfunctional ownership dynamics are very real, Broncos would struggle to use that much cap space in one offseason ... whether or not they’re “competing” they still have cap space to burn and they’d have another premium pick to hasten the actual “competing”.

[Simple Jaded]

First glance, the 2020 FA pool isn’t very good, might not wanna bust your nut on FA’s even if you could.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001039710/article/top-25-free-agents-in-2020-two-quarterbacks-lead-way-for-now

Most of these guys have already been extended, the two that’d help the most, Whitehair and Scherff are done.