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View Full Version : Did the Broncos Err by Letting Shaquil Barrett Walk?



Cugel
10-01-2019, 10:46 AM
Elway and his brain trust never valued Barrett and drafted Bradley Chubb to replace him. Chubb is certainly a good player. But, once on a team that valued his services and knew how to use him, Barrett is emerging as a potential NFL defensive MVP, which would be a terrible indictment to Broncos management.


Shaquil Barrett Is The Difference Maker The Buccaneers Need Him To Be (https://deadspin.com/shaquil-barrett-is-the-difference-maker-the-buccaneers-1838603749)

For any team hoping to have a successful season, the one role that needs to be filled more than anything else is that of the player that just needs one moment to change a game entirely. For the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, that player is edge rusher Shaquil Barrett. Barrett has been nothing short of an absolute stud this season, and you don’t need to look much further than his sack numbers heading into Sunday’s game against the Rams to realize that.

Shaq Barrett's eight sacks in three weeks ties Mark Gastineau's 1984 mark for the most sacks through three games in NFL history.

Gastineau had 22 sacks that season, setting the NFL record that stood until Michael Strahan broke it by a half-sack in 2001.

15069
Comparing Barrett to other great sack seasons.

The numbers don’t tell the whole story. His speed with which Barrett is able to explode off the line alone should strike fear into the hearts of any opposing quarterback, but even more intimidating is the fact that he always seems to know exactly what the offense’s snap count is. In his two standout games—Weeks 2 and 3—that latter skill had each quarterback he was chasing absolutely shook to the point where their uneasiness in the pocket resulted in him racking up even more sacks.

But it was ultimately Barrett’s clutch actions today in Los Angeles that had some calling the race for Defensive Player of the Year early in favor of the Tampa Bay player. In a high-scoring back-and-forth affair, the Buccaneers had established dominance over the Rams for a majority of the game and, quite frankly, made Sean McVay’s team look quite fraudulent. Just as it looked like the visitors had put the game away early in the fourth with an 18-point lead, the Rams responded with an eight-play 75-yard drive to cut it down to 11. Quarterback Jameis Winston—who had actually looked pretty darn good this game—then regressed back to the version of himself that fans are more used to seeing and essentially handed Marcus Peters an interception just three plays later. Peters took that pick to the house, cutting the lead to five (Rams tried and failed to go for two).

BroncoWave
10-01-2019, 10:47 AM
This was already discussed at length in another thread. Barrett publicly stated that he was only going to sign somewhere that would start him. So the only way Denver was guaranteeing that would be to ship off Miller or Chubb. Short of franchising Barrett which makes him a top 5 paid defensive end in the game, there was literally nothing we could do to keep him.

Cugel
10-01-2019, 10:53 AM
This was already discussed at length in another thread. Barrett publicly stated that he was only going to sign somewhere that would start him. So the only way Denver was guaranteeing that would be to ship off Miller or Chubb. Short of franchising Barrett which makes him a top 5 paid defensive end in the game, there was literally nothing we could do to keep him.

Of course they could have drafted OG Quenton Nelson who is starring for the Colts instead of Chubb and promoted Barrett to starter in 2018.

In retrospect (and that's what we're talking here of course), that would have been a better move. Of course Barrett might not have done as well in the Broncos defensive system.

Cugel
10-01-2019, 10:54 AM
The point is that you HAD a player who turns out to be a star, as soon as he leaves your crappy defense and goes to another team? That's just terrible.

BroncoWave
10-01-2019, 10:56 AM
Of course they could have drafted OG Quenton Nelson who is starring for the Colts instead of Chubb and promoted Barrett to starter in 2018.

In retrospect (and that's what we're talking here of course), that would have been a better move. Of course Barrett might not have done as well in the Broncos defensive system.

Sure, but that's all very easy to say in hindsight. And for all we know, Barrett would be having just as bad a year in the Fangio system as Miller/Chubb, and either Miller or Chubb might also be having a career year on the current Tampa team. It's just too easy to say in hindsight we should have kept him.

BroncoJoe
10-01-2019, 10:58 AM
I'd guess Barrett's numbers won't hold up. Too many teams are now aware of him, and he'll be treated like Von moving forward. IE: double and triple teamed.

BroncoJoe
10-01-2019, 10:59 AM
I'd guess Barrett's numbers won't hold up. Too many teams are now aware of him, and he'll be treated like Von moving forward. IE: double and triple teamed.

Plus, I think he's talented, but not elite. JMO, of course.

arapaho2
10-01-2019, 11:31 AM
Of course they could have drafted OG Quenton Nelson who is starring for the Colts instead of Chubb and promoted Barrett to starter in 2018.

In retrospect (and that's what we're talking here of course), that would have been a better move. Of course Barrett might not have done as well in the Broncos defensive system.


shaq started 9 games in 2017 and had a total of 4 sacks and played 664 defensive snaps

shaq played 251 defensive snaps in 2018 and had 3 sacks.....he has played in 115 defensive snaps this season with 9 sacks

clearly the guy had talent , but I think he is just in the right defense for him

underrated29
10-01-2019, 11:37 AM
They didnt "let him walk". Dumb thread.

wayninja
10-01-2019, 12:42 PM
We should have traded Chubb, and instead of this thread, we could be discussing how dumb we were for doing that.

Timmy!
10-01-2019, 01:56 PM
I heard it on the raaaaaaaaadiooooo.

dogfish
10-01-2019, 02:03 PM
no. . .

ShaneFalco
10-01-2019, 02:22 PM
Barrett is the only player i have seen that had a first step close to Von.

guess Broncos never saw it.

The team that is now wasting a whole a season with Flucco as QB.

BroncoWave
10-01-2019, 02:43 PM
Barrett is the only player i have seen that had a first step close to Von.

guess Broncos never saw it.

The team that is now wasting a whole a season with Flucco as QB.

So your argument is we would have franchise tagged him.

Shazam!
10-01-2019, 04:09 PM
They didnt "let him walk". Dumb thread.

He wanted to start somewhere

Northman
10-01-2019, 06:20 PM
I wanted to keep Barrett, i always liked him when he came in from the bench. Denver should have probably given him a chance to start to see if he could maintain what he does but they felt they needed to draft a guy like Chubb instead. It is what it is but im happy for Shaq, he is a fun guy to watch.

ShaneFalco
10-01-2019, 07:47 PM
in madden franchise i never let Shaq walk to FA.

Therfore Shane Falco > John Elway

Im just waiting for Chad Kelly to get his shot, then you will really want to lose it over a former player on the team.

Shazam!
10-01-2019, 07:54 PM
in madden franchise i never let Shaq walk to FA.

Therfore Shane Falco > John Elway

Im just waiting for Chad Kelly to get his shot, then you will really want to lose it over a former player on the team.

In sure John Elway can spell 'therefore' though.

wayninja
10-01-2019, 08:05 PM
in madden franchise i never let Shaq walk to FA.

Therfore Shane Falco > John Elway

Im just waiting for Chad Kelly to get his shot, then you will really want to lose it over a former player on the team.

I feel you dawg. I'm still waitin' on Tebow to come back.

Tangerine
10-02-2019, 07:52 AM
If we’re talking about Tampa Bay and hindsight, what the Broncos really should’ve done is hired Bruce Arians instead of “coach sweatshirt”. Arians is on his way to turning around the Bucs just like he did with the Cardinals, he’s even starting to get Jameis to not look like a colossal bust.

Arians seemed perfect, an established coach who could’ve helped our always terrible offense, a coach who knew how to change the culture. He had even won 2 Super Bowls with the Steelers, remember at one point that was Elway’s criteria for a coach.

ShaneFalco
10-02-2019, 11:18 AM
If we’re talking about Tampa Bay and hindsight, what the Broncos really should’ve done is hired Bruce Arians instead of “coach sweatshirt”. Arians is on his way to turning around the Bucs just like he did with the Cardinals, he’s even starting to get Jameis to not look like a colossal bust.

Arians seemed perfect, an established coach who could’ve helped our always terrible offense, a coach who knew how to change the culture. He had even won 2 Super Bowls with the Steelers, remember at one point that was Elway’s criteria for a coach.

yup coaching matters so much in the NFL these days.

And a coach that can develop QBs. Denver still doesnt have a coach like this.

Shazam!
10-02-2019, 11:31 AM
If we’re talking about Tampa Bay and hindsight, what the Broncos really should’ve done is hired Bruce Arians instead of “coach sweatshirt”. Arians is on his way to turning around the Bucs just like he did with the Cardinals, he’s even starting to get Jameis to not look like a colossal bust.

Arians seemed perfect, an established coach who could’ve helped our always terrible offense, a coach who knew how to change the culture. He had even won 2 Super Bowls with the Steelers, remember at one point that was Elway’s criteria for a coach.

yup coaching matters so much in the NFL these days.

And a coach that can develop QBs. Denver still doesnt have a coach like this.

Everyone was initially pleased with the hire.

ShaneFalco
10-02-2019, 11:32 AM
like it even brings me back to Paxton.

Who was supposed to develop Lynch?

We draft these guys and expect them to develop themselves or something. Ill never understand it.

Cugel
10-02-2019, 11:42 AM
yup coaching matters so much in the NFL these days.

And a coach that can develop QBs. Denver still doesnt have a coach like this.

Elway hates developmental QBs. That's why they never started Paxton even though he was the #1 pick. (Admittedly he sucks, but that wouldn't have stopped Elway from starting him if he hadn't been addicted to the "win now!" Mantra.)

That's why instead of drafting a QB in the 2018 draft he signed Case Keesum. That's why he signed Joe Flacco.

Rookie QBs need time to develop, which means you are NOT going to "win now!" Instead you will tank for a year or two while you acquire a bunch of draft picks and develop with younger players.

Just like the Browns did. Just like the Raiders are doing. Just like the Cardinals did. Etc. The Eagles and Rams were terrible for a couple of years until they could move up in the draft and get Carson Wentz and Jared Goff.

It's just rare to go from a Hall of Fame QB to a new franchise QB immediately. Only the Colts transition from Peyton to Andrew Luck comes to mind, and they screwed that up by not protecting Luck.

ShaneFalco
10-02-2019, 11:47 AM
well Lock is kind of a developmental qb, this is what i dont get.

the kid needs a mentor, he has arm talent but really needs help on footwork and reading defenses, taking snaps out of shotgun.


And im a Lock fan, i watched all his college games. But he is kind of a project qb with one of the best arms i have seen in a while.

ShaneFalco
10-02-2019, 11:51 AM
Also w Arians, he basically handed off the offense, to Byron Leftwich, you know that former QB?

Thats what i really want. A former QB , that can coach, and develop the young guy.

Cugel
10-02-2019, 11:55 AM
like it even brings me back to Paxton.

Who was supposed to develop Lynch?

We draft these guys and expect them to develop themselves or something. Ill never understand it.

Lynch was a panic move after Brock Osweiler left.

Plan A was -- Peyton retires, move Osweiler into the starting lineup.

Plan B -- Osweiler left so Elway drafted Paxton and signed the Butt Fumbler from the Jets to start until Paxton would be "ready". Butt Fumbler Sanchez immediately sucked and was cut in training camp so .. .

Plan C -- Since Paxton was sucking and Butt Fumbler was cut, start Trevor Siemian in 2016.

Plan D -- Since Trevor was sucking and injured try and "develop" Paxton. Plan D ran into the fact that they had a bunch of SB veterans who were ready to compete for championships right now and they couldn't stand the mistakes a raw rookie like Paxton made.

So 2017 Plan E -- the "QB competition" between Paxton and Trevor -- won by Trevor of course since he was the veteran. Then Trevor sucked and was hurt. Paxton came in and sucked and cried. They signed Osweiler back again. He sucked.

So, 2018 -- Sign a VETERAN who can give them a chance to "win now." Enter Case Keesum. Then he sucked and the team won 6 games. By now the SB 50 defense was gone losing Malik Jackson, DeMarcus Ware, TJ Ward, Aqib Talib, Danny Trevathan and Wade Phillips.

But, Elway persisted! He fired VJ and hired Fangio to rebuild the defense to "win now!" And since you need a veteran QB to win now, he signed Joe Flacco to win with mediocrity and a stellar defense.

Only now the offense is below average and the defense is ranked 15th in yards and 17th in points allowed. Average. Hence the 0-4 start.

Which takes us up to now. Elway can no longer avoid the "rebuilding process." Emannuel Sanders, Von Miller, Chris Harris, Derek Wolfe and others could and should be traded to free up cap space and acquire draft picks.

Time to start Drew Lock and "Develop" the hell out of him for as long as possible.

There is no NOW so time for the future. Will Elway do that? Probably not. :coffee:

BroncoWave
10-02-2019, 12:05 PM
I liked the Fangio hire at the time because Elway was zigging when the rest of the league was zagging. In a choice between the best defensive coach available or hoping to get the best out of 6 or 7 offense coaches out there, the decision made total sense.

And I'm still not giving up on him but man, if we're going to hamper the offense to win with defense, the defense needs to be way better.

Buff
10-02-2019, 12:06 PM
One time I used "err" correctly and NTL tried to correct me.

Hawgdriver
10-02-2019, 12:29 PM
Everyone was initially pleased with the hire.

Don't tell me what to think!

Hawgdriver
10-02-2019, 12:39 PM
One time I used "err" correctly and NTL tried to correct me.

15073

Tangerine
10-02-2019, 01:02 PM
I liked the Fangio hire at the time because Elway was zigging when the rest of the league was zagging. In a choice between the best defensive coach available or hoping to get the best out of 6 or 7 offense coaches out there, the decision made total sense.

And I'm still not giving up on him but man, if we're going to hamper the offense to win with defense, the defense needs to be way better.

I doubt any realistic fans are saying they should move on from Fangio, perhaps my comments above were a bit harsh. They’ve already had 4 different HCs in 6 years which is pure insanity by itself, getting yet another HC isn’t going to solve anything. They picked him and have to make it work with Fangio.

They just seem to lack a general direction. Everything about this team points to rebuilding, over half the starters have less than 3 years experience with a couple rookies starting, new coaches, new system ect. But then they pickup Flacco’s old butt and restructure his contract making it harder to cut him, yes he hasn’t played terrible I guess, but it just doesn’t fit. Elway needs to pick a direction and stick with it.

BroncoWave
10-02-2019, 01:08 PM
I doubt any realistic fans are saying they should move on from Fangio, perhaps my comments above were a bit harsh. They’ve already had 4 different HCs in 6 years which is pure insanity by itself, getting yet another HC isn’t going to solve anything. They picked him and have to make it work with Fangio.

They just seem to lack a general direction. Everything about this team points to rebuilding, over half the starters have less than 3 years experience with a couple rookies starting, new coaches, new system ect. But then they pickup Flacco’s old butt and restructure his contract making it harder to cut him, yes he hasn’t played terrible I guess, but it just doesn’t fit. Elway needs to pick a direction and stick with it.

Yeah, "win from now on" needs to die a firey death. The team needs to rebuild. Time to commit to it.

Hawgdriver
10-02-2019, 01:10 PM
I doubt any realistic fans are saying they should move on from Fangio, perhaps my comments above were a bit harsh. They’ve already had 4 different HCs in 6 years which is pure insanity by itself, getting yet another HC isn’t going to solve anything. They picked him and have to make it work with Fangio.

They just seem to lack a general direction. Everything about this team points to rebuilding, over half the starters have less than 3 years experience with a couple rookies starting, new coaches, new system ect. But then they pickup Flacco’s old butt and restructure his contract making it harder to cut him, yes he hasn’t played terrible I guess, but it just doesn’t fit. Elway needs to pick a direction and stick with it.

Instead of Win Now aiming at Win from Now On...we've become Lose Now sliding into Lose from Now On. Because we are slow to recognize...

gregbroncs
10-03-2019, 09:54 PM
They screwed up when they let Trevathan go. Kept Brandon Marshall instead that was a huge mistake. Barrett wasn't going to stay.