Get Minkah!

[Ziggy]

The Broncos are losing their #1 CB next season when CHJ gets paid. He's in his 30's but he's still the best slot corner in the game which is invaluable to defenses in today's NFL. Who's waiting in the wings? Duke Dawson was a good start, but he needs some development. Yiadam might be a good 3rd corner with some more grooming. Jackson can fill in at corner, but Fangio seems to like him better at safety. The Broncos need corner help both now and in the years to come.

Enter Minkah Fitzpatrick. He's a big, fast athletic guy that can play outside corner, slot corner, safety, and linebacker in certain situations. He has the size to cover bigger receivers (6'1 202). Playing slot corner in 2018, he ranked first in completion percentage allowed, first in passer rating allowed, and ninth in coverage grade. In college, he was the highest graded slot corner in the PFF college era (2014-2018). He was known as Saban's kid at Alabama because the coach loved him so much. They couldn't keep him out of the film room and it showed in the draft. He's a high character, crazy work ethic, leader type that Elway covets.

Miami wants a first for him, but I think a second and a player would do it. He's on the second year of a rookie first round contract, meaning the team trading for him would have his rights for 4 more years. Opportunities like this one rarely come up in the NFL. Getting a stud player that was a first rounder last year is hard to do, but the door is open.

Get it done Elway!

[Cugel]

I think even Elway believes privately that this team is in rebuilding mode, not "win now" mode no matter what he says. They might need every draft pick they can get their hands on to move up to the top of the first round for Tua or Fromm next year.

We're likely to see Drew Lock this season. What if he looks terrible? Will they just roll the dice and hope he isn't another Paxton Lynch? Or will they finally bite the bullet and go out next season and get a top 3 pick QB prospect and maybe find a guy who can compete with Pat Mahomes for the next 10 years.

If the wheels continue to fall off the bus, the Broncos are likely to finish 6-10 or worse and those picks are top 10 picks. True, they will need a CB when Harris leaves next year.

But, they are likely to dump salary rather than add it, as expiring contracts and departing veterans like Derek Wolfe, Emmanuel Sanders, Harris, and possibly Von Miller add tons of cap room and the team rebuilds from scratch.

That might be unavoidable if they can't win with Joe Flacco. And do you think they can?

[dogfish]

call up and see if you can steal him with a lowball offer since they're in fire sale mode, sure. . . can't give up a 1st or a 2nd, though. . . if the rest of the season goes the way monday night did, denver could well find themselves at the top of the draft again. . . keeping their options open in case they're in range of a blue chip QB prospect is more important than adding a hybrid DB. . .

[underrated29]

We need to send them pits 3rd. But we shiukd absolutely get him. Hes worth a 2nd too. This is a homerun move. We need the agressive Elway of old. Hed make this move

[Poet]

I read yesterday that they are asking for a first round pick. I don't want to do that. He's a very fine player. I understand his frustration because he's being asked to play in roles that he can't really do. And he's on a tanking team, so he can't even 'buy in' that his 'sacrifice' is 'helping' the team.

[Shazam!]

Can he play offense

[Simple Jaded]

I can’t high five this enough.

I don’t wanna hear about rebuilding when the player we’re talking about is 24 years old and going into his second season.

[MOtorboat]

i don’t think this team should be losing draft picks.

[Hawgdriver]

i don’t think this team should be losing draft picks.

True enough, we could always use another Garrett B.

[Simple Jaded]

True enough, we could always use another Garrett B.

Or Isaac Yiadum.

Go look at Elway’s history of drafting DB’s.

It’s not good.

He should stop.

[MOtorboat]

True enough, we could always use another Garrett B.

You can’t stop drafting people because you made a bad pick.

[underrated29]

Harris is gone after this year. We wont find a cb as good as minakah in rd 2.
He also returns punts and kicks I'm pretty sure. This trade makes too much sense for us

[Simple Jaded]

You can’t stop drafting people because you made a bad pick.

Agreed, but you can trade picks for proven players, especially starters.

[Simple Jaded]

$10 says he ends up in NE for a conditional 2030 draft pick.

[Hawgdriver]

You can’t stop drafting people because you made a bad pick.

What's the point of drafting?

[Hawgdriver]

Anyway, what would you value him as?

[dogfish]

MO > the rest of y'all mu'kvckas


i don’t think this team should be losing draft picks.

no. . . they really shouldn't. . .


True enough, we could always use another Garrett B.

or another dalton risner. . .

i've been as critical of john's drafting as anyone. . . but he's on an upswing now. . .

the last two drafts have been strong. . . look at sutton balling out. . . royce is gonna be good, too. . . and i can't wait for them to get dre'mont rolling. . .



picks are always hit or miss propositions, but that doesn't mean we should give them away. . .


PROs; he's young, reasonably cost-controlled for the next three years (plus a pricey option), and he's a former high 1st with plenty of talent and lots of upside. . . and we have a striking need for promising young DBs. . .

CONs; he was good last year-- certainly not great. . . and he got his ass kicked-- then benched-- last week. . . flores learned under bill belly, and he can't wait to get rid of minkah. . . has to be considered as a red flag. . . hybrid without a true position. . .


analysis; he's absolutely worth acquiring at the right price, but don't overpay for this guy. . . we have a crying need for talented young DBs, but we have a much bigger need at QB. . . gimpy lock notwithstanding. . . gotta hoard our most valuable draft capital against the possibility of moving up for a potential franchise QB in next year's rich class. . . IF the price happens to drop into the 3rd round pick range, then there's no question you get involved. . . i wouldn't go higher than that ATM, myself. . .

[Hawgdriver]

MO > the rest of y'all mu'kvckas



no. . . they really shouldn't. . .



or another dalton risner. . .

i've been as critical of john's drafting as anyone. . . but he's on an upswing now. . .

the last two drafts have been strong. . . look at sutton balling out. . . royce is gonna be good, too. . . and i can't wait for them to get dre'mont rolling. . .



picks are always hit or miss propositions, but that doesn't mean we should give them away. . .


PROs; he's young, reasonably cost-controlled for the next three years (plus a pricey option), and he's a former high 1st with plenty of talent and lots of upside. . . and we have a striking need for promising young DBs. . .

CONs; he was good last year-- certainly not great. . . and he got his ass kicked-- then benched-- last week. . . flores learned under bill belly, and he can't wait to get rid of minkah. . . has to be considered as a red flag. . . hybrid without a true position. . .


analysis; he's absolutely worth acquiring at the right price, but don't overpay for this guy. . . we have a crying need for talented young DBs, but we have a much bigger need at QB. . . gimpy lock notwithstanding. . . gotta hoard our most valuable draft capital against the possibility of moving up for a potential franchise QB in next year's rich class. . . IF the price happens to drop into the 3rd round pick range, then there's no question you get involved. . . i wouldn't go higher than that ATM, myself. . .

I'd be ok with what amounts to a pick in the mid 40's.

[Poet]

Why does Mo get love when I said I don't think I want to give up a first?

This aggression hurts my soul!

[MOtorboat]

Anyway, what would you value him as?

A 2 1/2 year rental.

[Simple Jaded]

Oh I forgot the Broncos are great at drafting now that they draft nothing but team captains and Boy Scouts.

Sooner or later the Broncos are going to need to draft starting DB’s and Elway has flat out proved that he is not the one any team wants to do that. He sucks at it.

[MOtorboat]

Agreed, but you can trade picks for proven players, especially starters.

Don't kick the can down the road. It's not worth it.

Yes, Chris Harris is looking at a pay day next year. Yes, for a first round pick you can get a player people like for 2 1/2 years, who's going to be demanding a massive contract before that happens. But this stuff doesn't happen in a vacuum. NFL players are used cars. They depreciate the minute they came off the lot, a few keep their Blue Book value, but they rapidly decline in value.

So, what value does Minkah Fitzpatrick add to an 8-8 team? What does he add to a 6-10 team? What value does he add to a 10-6 team? If you genuinely think you're going 10-6 and you're two players short of 12-4, you add Minkah Fitzpatrick and give up a mid-20s, and hopefully 30s, draft pick. If you think you're finishing 6-10, or 8-8, and you're trading an appreciable asset (a top 5 to top 15 pick) for a depreciable asset with an expiration date, you absolutely do not do the trade.

Think of Minkah Fitpatrick as the Aqib Talib deal. Elway makes that move because he's one or two pieces short of a title. This team isn't one or two pieces short of a title. It needs too many pieces. It needs a long-term quarterback, a long-term left tackle, a long-term receiving threat. It needs help up the middle on defense. Frankly, the only major piece of a championship team Denver has is a long-term pass rusher. It's not one piece away from making a run.

You want to walk into next year's draft with chips, whether it's to move up or down or just simply make a pick, you can't afford to walk in to it multiple pieces short of making a run and zero picks.

[Hawgdriver]

A 2 1/2 year rental.

I don't have strong feelings one way or the other. If he was ILB different story.

[Simple Jaded]

Fitzpatrick is 22 years old and fits what Fangio is looking for in every single possible way ... the “Save the draft picks” argument doesn’t work here. This is a no-brainer.

[MOtorboat]

I don't have strong feelings one way or the other. If he was ILB different story.

Not even if he's a stud ILB do I make this deal.

The team isn't in position to be trading first round picks for players, at any position.

[MOtorboat]

Fitzpatrick is 22 years old and fits what Fangio is looking for in every single possible way ... the “Save the draft picks” argument doesn’t work here. This is a no-brainer.

But what does he add to a 6-10 team? Nothing. If you end up 6-10 without a first round draft pick, it's just idiotic.

[Simple Jaded]

But what does he add to a 6-10 team? Nothing. If you end up 6-10 without a first round draft pick, it's just idiotic.

He adds a Day-1 starter with All-Pro talent in the secondary, something this team wouldn’t know anything about.

Have them throw in Josh Rosen, it’s science MO.

[Hawgdriver]

Not even if he's a stud ILB do I make this deal.

The team isn't in position to be trading first round picks for players, at any position.

I feel like Fangio is missing this key ingredient in his recipe.

[Simple Jaded]

I feel like Fangio is missing this key ingredient in his recipe.

Trade for Telvin Smith.

I’m so good at this shit.

[Simple Jaded]

Trent Williams
Minkah Fitzpatrick
Telvin Smith
OJ Howard.

Who needs draft picks when you can go to the SB this year?

[MOtorboat]

I feel like Fangio is missing this key ingredient in his recipe.

We're missing a lot in the recipe.

[Hawgdriver]

We're missing a lot in the recipe.

ILB is the missing yeast in our bread recipe. Yeah, we don't have rosemary at TE, and maybe the flour can't play LT despite how much management wants to pretend the flour can play LT, but it's still flour. Personnel wise, you get ILB fixed, it comes down to offensive coaching in 2019.

[dogfish]

ILB is the missing yeast in our bread recipe. Yeah, we don't have rosemary at TE, and maybe the flour can't play LT despite how much management wants to pretend the flour can play LT, but it's still flour. Personnel wise, you get ILB fixed, it comes down to offensive coaching in 2019.

i love yer optimism. . . QB may still be a little thin, also. . .



:afraid:

[dogfish]

Fitzpatrick is 22 years old and fits what Fangio is looking for in every single possible way ... the “Save the draft picks” argument doesn’t work here. This is a no-brainer.

fangio teams have never drafted DBs high. . . don't need to when you play that much zone. . .

[MOtorboat]

ILB is the missing yeast in our bread recipe. Yeah, we don't have rosemary at TE, and maybe the flour can't play LT despite how much management wants to pretend the flour can play LT, but it's still flour. Personnel wise, you get ILB fixed, it comes down to offensive coaching in 2019.

Ironically to my argument, Elway missed those MLBs in the draft...

:whoknows:

[Timmy!]

A 1st no. A 2nd? I'd pull the trigger.

[Hawgdriver]

i love yer optimism. . . QB may still be a little thin, also. . .



:afraid:

Goes without saying homie.

[underrated29]

Here's the thing that's wrong with mo's stance......hes not going to cost a 1st.


Hes going to be a 3rd and a 6th or something like that. Hes not going to be a first or 2nd. This trade needs to happen for us in the worst way.

[Ziggy]

If you look at the original post, I said the Dolphins are asking for a first but I think a second and a player will get it done. I'm not on board with trading a first round pick for him. A second +, all day long. He's a first round prospect that has been shifted around in their D. I trust Fangio to put him in the right spot and use him correctly.

[TXBRONC]

He would be a fantastic player to have, but I don't think Denver should be forfeiting draft picks for players from other teams.

[MOtorboat]

Here's the thing that's wrong with mo's stance......hes not going to cost a 1st.


Hes going to be a 3rd and a 6th or something like that. Hes not going to be a first or 2nd. This trade needs to happen for us in the worst way.

“Dolphins steadfast price of a 1st round pick and more.” -Mort

Doesn’t sound like they’re ready to part with him for cheap.

[MOtorboat]

The Dolphins aren’t interested in your third and sixth round picks. They want your first. They traded Tunsil and Stills for two. They’re not parting with a better player for less. Or at least, I’ll be absolutely shocked if they do.

[Cugel]

Agreed, but you can trade picks for proven players, especially starters.

Problem: You couldn't pay him. There's problem #1. One problem. His dead cap hit in 2019 is $13,457,268. The Broncos would have to pay that because Miami certainly won't do that if they trade him. Any team that wants him will have to pay all that money.

Next year they could afford to pay him, since Chris Harris' salary will come off the books, but Minkah's going to move this year, not next and they don't have the money right now.

Problem #2: They will need every single pick they can get their hands on if they have to move up in the first round to get a QB next season. That is a very realistic scenario since

a. The team with Flacco might have a bad 6-10 season or something. The Broncos would be eliminated from the playoffs around week 11 and we'd have 5 weeks of Drew Lock starting - because why not? Why not see what you've got?

b. Flacco could have his arm torn off by a rampaging defensive lineman because Garrett Bolles missed another block and you'd have to start Drew Lock. That too is a fair bet to happen at some point, unfortunately.

In either case what does Drew Lock look like? Does he look like a star or another Paxton? If it's the latter, and perhaps even if it's not, Denver might want to move up and grab Tua or Fromm. And they could easily have a top 5 or certainly top 10 pick.

If the team continues to play like they did in game 1 that's virtually certain. The Rockies last year were 91-72 and just barely lost the division to the Dodgers. This year? They are 31 games back.

Sometimes teams actually regress because players you were counting on didn't come through (Juwan James come on down!)

We could be seeing that this season with the Broncos. In that case Denver will need every pick they can get next year because it's going to be a rebuilding year for sure.

[Simple Jaded]

You can’t trade dead cap, for the most part, unless it’s guaranteed salary or roster bonuses, which are exceedingly rare in rookie contracts.

But whatever.

[Simple Jaded]

fangio teams have never drafted DBs high. . . don't need to when you play that much zone. . .


No, they just pay out the ass for them in free agency.

Btw, you’re thinking of Tampa/Cover 2.

[Simple Jaded]

Also, if Fangio is another coach that doesn’t think he needs talent I will be looking forward to his departure. It’s not scheme and it never will be.

Maybe dude can win A GAME before we start excluding players that fit more than just his scheme (which is zone heavy, not exclusively zone).

[Simple Jaded]

Quick question, are we gonna pass on Tua or Herbert because Skank prefers Case Rypien types?

To me that’s grounds for firing Skank.

[Simple Jaded]

Problem: You couldn't pay him. There's problem #1. One problem. His dead cap hit in 2019 is $13,457,268. The Broncos would have to pay that because Miami certainly won't do that if they trade him. Any team that wants him will have to pay all that money.

Next year they could afford to pay him, since Chris Harris' salary will come off the books, but Minkah's going to move this year, not next and they don't have the money right now.

Problem #2: They will need every single pick they can get their hands on if they have to move up in the first round to get a QB next season. That is a very realistic scenario since

a. The team with Flacco might have a bad 6-10 season or something. The Broncos would be eliminated from the playoffs around week 11 and we'd have 5 weeks of Drew Lock starting - because why not? Why not see what you've got?

b. Flacco could have his arm torn off by a rampaging defensive lineman because Garrett Bolles missed another block and you'd have to start Drew Lock. That too is a fair bet to happen at some point, unfortunately.

In either case what does Drew Lock look like? Does he look like a star or another Paxton? If it's the latter, and perhaps even if it's not, Denver might want to move up and grab Tua or Fromm. And they could easily have a top 5 or certainly top 10 pick.

If the team continues to play like they did in game 1 that's virtually certain. The Rockies last year were 91-72 and just barely lost the division to the Dodgers. This year? They are 31 games back.

Sometimes teams actually regress because players you were counting on didn't come through (Juwan James come on down!)

We could be seeing that this season with the Broncos. In that case Denver will need every pick they can get next year because it's going to be a rebuilding year for sure.

https://mobile.twitter.com/FieldYates/status/1172473880293720064?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1172475286228807680&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.milehighreport.com%2F201 9%2F9%2F13%2F20862324%2Fhow-will-the-broncos-offensive-line-hold-up-against-the-bears-pass-rush

I’m just gonna put this here.

[Poet]

Quick question, are we gonna pass on Tua or Herbert because Skank prefers Case Rypien types?

To me that’s grounds for firing Skank.

We should pass on Herbert because he's awful.

But if we passed on Tua because of an idiot coordinator we should fire everyone.

[Davii]

https://mobile.twitter.com/FieldYates/status/1172473880293720064?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1172475286228807680&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.milehighreport.com%2F201 9%2F9%2F13%2F20862324%2Fhow-will-the-broncos-offensive-line-hold-up-against-the-bears-pass-rush

I’m just gonna put this here.

Lol. Literally invalidates Cugel's post.

[MOtorboat]

Don’t need to be trading for pieces. Yesterday’s game should have illustrated this even more. We don’t need pieces, we need a rebuild.

[BroncoWave]

Steelers just got him for a first rounder.

[MOtorboat]

Here's the thing that's wrong with mo's stance......hes not going to cost a 1st.


Hes going to be a 3rd and a 6th or something like that. Hes not going to be a first or 2nd. This trade needs to happen for us in the worst way.

:wave:

[Northman]

Mink coat is now a Squeeler.

[Northman]

:wave:

Maybe UR meant he "shouldnt' be a for a first. Maybe he feels that Pitt just got raped.

[Poet]

Mo just hit UR with the styledriver.

[Northman]

https://scontent.fphl2-4.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/70648381_168986184224243_1917108130592849920_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=106&_nc_oc=AQlT2MnoA_I5z-pbluXy6UPOIWPtcE55XtiCxkhGsNZeZGcQ11UeJogtSQTO76CD wL8&_nc_ht=scontent.fphl2-4.fna&oh=2cf4a70cb77de100caa257d38315f1d1&oe=5E02A21A

[Poet]

Ramsey is such a stud that I'd almost want to trade a first rounder for him. Almost.

[Northman]

Early word is the Chiefs are trying to grab him.

[Poet]

Early word is the Chiefs are trying to grab him.

**** them. **** their mullets. **** their camaro's. **** their half-toothed smiles. **** the canned ravoli that they eat. **** their empty bookcases. **** all of them.

[Northman]

**** them. **** their mullets. **** their camaro's. **** their half-toothed smiles. **** the canned ravoli that they eat. **** their empty bookcases. **** all of them.

Yea, all that. Lol

[BroncoWave]

UR had a wrong take?

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/027/475/Screen_Shot_2018-10-25_at_11.02.15_AM.png

[dogfish]

ramsey is so freaking good. . . seems like a super diva headcase, though, too. . . they don't exactly have a winning culture in jacksonville, and it's always sounded like he was part of that. . . is he better in a better environment? and if so, do we have one right now? worth going after if you think you can calm his ass down a little, but you really need to do a thorough due diligence process first. . .

and no effing way do you trade a future first right now. . . can't do it. . .

[Poet]

ramsey is so freaking good. . . seems like a super diva headcase, though, too. . . they don't exactly have a winning culture in jacksonville, and it's always sounded like he was part of that. . . is he better in a better environment? and if so, do we have one right now? worth going after if you think you can calm his ass down a little, but you really need to do a thorough due diligence process first. . .

and no effing way do you trade a future first right now. . . can't do it. . .

He's arguably the best corner in the game, and he's young. Minkah isn't worth a first. Jalen Ramsey is...**** he might be. I'm super torn.

Regarding his attitude, on one hand at his best he was their Talib. On the other...he's kind of a dick. AAARGH!

[HORSEPOWER 56]

We should pass on Herbert because he's awful.

But if we passed on Tua because of an idiot coordinator we should fire everyone.

Just think, if we draft Tua Bolles is no longer the blind side protector. That’s a plus I guess.

[Davii]

Can we trade for Trent Williams?

[Poet]

Can we trade for Trent Williams?

It would be strange to have production at LT.

[underrated29]

Minkah is not worth a first. The steel are dumb for trading for him.

Ramsey is absolutely worth a first! Without question. We wont be able to wait to see what we have in lock to make the trade. I hope he stays outside the division. Fvck the chiefs.

[MOtorboat]

Minkah is not worth a first. The steel are dumb for trading for him.

Ramsey is absolutely worth a first! Without question. We wont be able to wait to see what we have in lock to make the trade. I hope he stays outside the division. Fvck the chiefs.

I think Ramsey is the one who will go for less than a first.

[underrated29]

I think Ramsey is the one who will go for less than a first.

That would be criminal

[Poet]

I think Ramsey is the one who will go for less than a first.

Man...that'd be worth it.

[MOtorboat]

That would be criminal

It’s about monetary value, UR. Minkah has three years of control on the cheap. Ramsey has a moderate priced year this year and a $13M cap hit next year before free agency the following, plus he’s a headcase who will probably be demanding a long term contract before the year is done. A team that takes on that contract and his personality could probably get that package for less. His play vs. Fitzpatrick’s play is only a small factor.

[Elevation inc]

That would be criminal

Not really he clashes a lot with coaches and his own team mates....2nd rd. for Ramsey is Right on target. I hope it is a 2nd rd pick and we do it. If not were dumb. a GM's Job is to make our team better and we have cap space, after the Flacco contract dumbassery. At least if we get a productive player from that cap space I wont be so pissed about the dead money created for a middling QB. My guess though is we would make a Trent Williams deal before a Ramsey deal.

1st for Minkah was stupid. I wouldn't have paid that. If i was a Miami fan I would be stoked with what they have for next year. 3 first rd picks and 2 seconds....heck the pitt 1st rd pick maybe top ten since Big ben is out for year now....Not sure why Pitt was a buyer after the Ben injury

[Simple Jaded]

Ramsey will go for more than Fitzpatrick, I bet, and he’ll get paid big time. He actually isn’t as good of a fit as Fitzpatrick though, and part of his pity party is how much zone the Jagoffs are playing.

I’d still trade for Ramsey and tell Fangio to figure it the **** out, I have zero doubt that he can.

[Simple Jaded]

The discussion here is pretty indicative of where the Broncos are right now, y’all are hoping for 8-8, something around there ... yet look at the Broncos draft results when they’re not picking Top10.

Top 10
Von Miller and Bradley Chubb

Not Top 10
Sly Williams
Bradley Roby
Shane Ray
Paxton Lynch
Garett Bolles
Noah Fant

There was one more draft where Elway didn’t have a Top 10 pick, he traded completely out of round 1 and took Derek Wolfe. Although, Elway’s 2-3 rounds picks aren’t any better.

So again, tell me why we should hope they keep their No1 picks unless we’re hoping they stink?

If we’re just hoping for 8-8 why aren’t we clammering for them to make a trade?

And if you’re hoping they won’t stink and can actually make something out of this season, why aren’t you totally on board with getting 2020’s 1st round pick on the roster immediately?

And if you’re hoping for a 1st round pick outside of the Top10 what the **** are you smoking?

[MOtorboat]

To be fair, I’m not too many losses away from hoping for 4-12.

:coffee:

[Davii]

I'm hoping for 14-2. Realistically though, we pick top 10.

However, I believe Elway's last two drafts showed a lot of improvement and hopefully he continues that trend. If you're so down on Elway then it doesn't make any difference where he drafts so just turn off your TV and cry.

[Simple Jaded]

I'm hoping for 14-2. Realistically though, we pick top 10.

However, I believe Elway's last two drafts showed a lot of improvement and hopefully he continues that trend. If you're so down on Elway then it doesn't make any difference where he drafts so just turn off your TV and cry.

He’s my adopted Broncos, I’m not down on him, I’m up on reality.

Btw, showed improvement in what ... exactly?

[Simple Jaded]

I’m bringing you guys down so much yet I’m the one that expects the more out of this season.

What’s the over/under on when we see the “We need to trade Von Miller” thread?

How many of you Half-Full’s are already asking yourself that question?

[dogfish]

jags reportedly asking for two firsts, and have already gotten offers of a first plus. . . that should take us out of the running. . . jaded, it's not about hoping-- it's about reality. . . the donkeys suck right now. . . gotta hold onto next year's first, cuz blue chip QB prospects. . . science!

[Simple Jaded]

jags reportedly asking for two firsts, and have already gotten offers of a first plus. . . that should take us out of the running. . . jaded, it's not about hoping-- it's about reality. . . the donkeys suck right now. . . gotta hold onto next year's first, cuz blue chip QB prospects. . . science!

Uh huh, come January 1st I’ll be arguing with some Half-Full idiot that thinks we gotta see what we have in Case Rypien, it’ll be “Go with Rypien and trade out of the 1st round to accumulate draft picks”. Even if they get that Top 10 pick.

Jesus could literally come back to life and enter the NFL Draft and people will be inventing reasons why he’s not worth a Top 10mpick. “He won’t eat anything but fish, he’s a bust waiting to happen”.

[MOtorboat]

#tankforTua

[Simple Jaded]

#tankforTua

#He’sTooShort
#IjustDon’tLikeHisAttitude

[Poet]

Maybe we can get a fourth rounder for Lock.

[Timmy!]

It is waaaayyyyyyyy to early to cut bait on Lock. ILB and OT plz.....if Fangio can pull his head out and release the ******* hounds already. Fuuuuuuck

[Hawgdriver]

**** them. **** their mullets. **** their camaro's. **** their half-toothed smiles. **** the canned ravoli that they eat. **** their empty bookcases. **** all of them.

I'm fine with all the rest, but this was gratuitous.

*camaros.

[Poet]

It is waaaayyyyyyyy to early to cut bait on Lock. ILB and OT plz.....if Fangio can pull his head out and release the ******* hounds already. Fuuuuuuck

This is only if we continue to blow and have a very early pick. I love Lock...I basically got bashed all offseason for wanting him. But if a god tier prospect like Tua is available, it be what it be.

Hawg...**** those cars.

[underrated29]

Ive mentioned that Flacco has impressed the shit out of me. That said, if we are anything other than 2-2 entering week 5 (which I dont see anyway that happens. 0-4 baby) then we need to start lock. DAMNIT!!!! Hes on IR and cant come back til week 9? Sonofa!!!

Ok, Unless we are 7-2 or 6-3 entering week 10, regardless of how well flacco is playin....welp no. If we are 5-4 or less, we must start Lock regardless of how well Flacco is playing. We must know what he is before he dump him and draft Herbert (or any QB).

[Hawgdriver]

Hawg...**** those cars.

A bridge too far. But in the context of KC Chef Cameros, sure, **** those cars.

Baby and bathwater, that's all I'm saying Kinger.

[Cugel]

Quick question, are we gonna pass on Tua or Herbert because Skank prefers Case Rypien types?

To me that’s grounds for firing Skank.

That will be Elway's decision and nobody else's. He thinks Joe Flacco is in his prime. You remember why he refused to draft Sam Darnold or Josh Allen or even Lamar Jackson. They could have used their #5 pick to take Chubb, and still gone back into the top of the 2nd round ahead of Baltimore and grabbed Lamar Jackson.

He was asked about why he refused to draft a QB. Answer: "We're not kicking Paxton to the curb!" :rolleyes:

Hence Joe Flacco will be the Broncos QB going forward, until John Elway is not in charge any longer, or until it's such a disaster that they can no longer afford to wait. Even when the broncos are eliminated this season, don't think Elway is going to want to put Lock in because he's not.

For me that moment cannot come too soon. :coffee: But, I'm not holding my breath waiting for Joe Ellis to grow a pair.

We may get to see Drew Lock before the season is out, but for how many games? I would like to see him immediately whenever he can return from IR. That ain't gonna happen though.

[Simple Jaded]

Drew Lock should have no barring on whether or not they draft a better QB prospect.

If the Broncos went into 2020 season with Flacco, Lock and Tua l will cry tears of pure joy.

[Elevation inc]

Drew Lock should have no barring on whether or not they draft a better QB prospect.

If the Broncos went into 2020 season with Flacco, Lock and Tua l will cry tears of pure joy.

Lock and Tua yes, Flacco no....lol :lol:

[MOtorboat]

Drew Lock should have no barring on whether or not they draft a better QB prospect.

If the Broncos went into 2020 season with Flacco, Lock and Tua l will cry tears of pure joy.

Of joy? Lol.

The Broncos front office is stupid enough to draft Tua or Lawrence and start Flacco.

[Cugel]

Of joy? Lol.

The Broncos front office is stupid enough to draft Tua or Lawrence and start Flacco.

Actually, Elway is stupid enough to not draft a QB, start Flacco, and sit Lock for this year and the next two years.

That is actually the plan. In John Elway's mind, Drew Lock is his backup QB, and is never intended to start until Flacco retires like Peyton did.

Ie he's Brock Osweiler - although they hope he'll do better than Osweiler, he's essentially Osweiler. Drafted in the mid second round like Osweiler. Intended to sit for several seasons behind a veteran QB like Osweiler. Scheduled to come in and do his job if Flacco is hurt, but then they will go back to Flacco baring some miracle.

That's their plan. :coffee:

Don't ask me whether it's a good plan. :tsk:

[Cugel]

BTW: After the 2020 draft and all the hype about whether the Broncos will use their top 10 pick to move up and draft a top rated QB prospect, and then they don't do it and trade down instead and get a LT or DT or ILB or CB, Elway will be asked "why didn't you draft a QB?"

And he will say "we already have a backup QB in Drew Lock and we felt that we needed to go in a different direction. [Insert Player Name] was available and we had him rated very highly on our board, so we didn't feel like we could pass on that opportunity to draft a couple of players we felt could come in and help our roster."

Unstated in all this will be the statement: "We don't care what the fans think. Joe Flacco is our starting QB and we're happy with his performance."

You are hearing that this season already are you not? "It's not Joe Flacco's fault."

Joe actually has played pretty well considering that #72 is holding and stalling out two or three drives a game.

[Shazam!]

Lock can be traded.

[Cugel]

Lock can be traded.

Why would they trade him? You mean if they draft a top 5 QB? Don't hold your breath.

[underrated29]

Drew Lock should have no barring on whether or not they draft a better QB prospect.

If the Broncos went into 2020 season with Flacco, Lock and Tua l will cry tears of pure joy.



Is tua that much better than Lock?

[dogfish]

Is tua that much better than Lock?

fook yes!

[underrated29]

fook yes!

Really?
Like how much better? Granted I do not think Lock is all that good. I see him as a Matt Ryan type if he maxes out, but is Tua really that much better?


Actually, scratch that. Miami is going to get Tua. What QB will be in range for us (besides Herbert whom I do not see anything more than marginally better than Lock)

[Cugel]

Here's your top 5 QB prospects according to Walter Football:


Tua Tagovailoa*, QB, Alabama
Height: 6-1. Weight: 218.
Projected 40 Time: 4.70.
Projected Round (2020): 1.
9/19/19: In 2019, Tagovailoa has completed 77 percent of his passes for 1,007 yards with 12 touchdowns and zero interceptions. Alabama has faced easy opponents in Duke, New Mexico State and South Carolina.

8/15/19: Tagovailoa has a quality arm that can make any throw required in the NFL. After his heroic effort to win the 2017 season's National Championship for Alabama, Tagovailoa was even better as a sophomore, completing 69 percent of his passes for 3,966 yards with 43 touchdowns and six interceptions. He also is a good athlete with some running ability, notching five rushing touchdowns in 2018. His mobility and athleticism allow him to buy time and escape sacks. There are also times that Tagovailoa shows an ability to scramble and make throws off platform to move the chains. Tagovailoa looks like a future NFL starter and probably will be a team's young franchise quarterback come training camp of 2020.

Tagovailoa is an aggressive passer who doesn't hesitate to challenge defenses downfield. He throws a very good deep ball, showing a quality arm and an ability to place his passes well downfield. He may not have an elite cannon, but his arm looks good enough. In the pocket, Tagovailoa shows patience and doesn't panic when his first read is covered. With presence and feel, Tagovailoa has the ability to function in a vertical passing offense.

Tagovailoa is a steady passer who generally has good accuracy. He does well for the most part on his short and intermediate passes to hit receivers on the run on slants and crossing routes.

Tagovailoa has some things he can seek to improve, and he definitely has upside to develop as he gains more experience in only his second season as a starter. There are plays on which he could pull the trigger a little faster and anticipate his receivers breaking open rather than waiting an extra second. In the NFL, he won't have as much time to throw as he does at Alabama. His footwork and mechanics could use some development, but he has a very good starting point for a quarterback entering the NFL. Tagovailoa is also left-handed, and his pro receivers will need time to adjust to him as the vast majority are used to a right-handed quarterbacks. Additionally, his offensive line is going to need a very good right tackle because he will be the blind-side protector for Tagovailoa.

Justin Herbert, QB, Oregon
Height: 6-6. Weight: 225.
Projected 40 Time: 4.72.
Projected Round (2020): 1.
9/19/19: In 2019, Herbert has completed 73 percent of his passes for 868 yards with 11 touchdowns and zero interceptions.

Herbert finished Week 1 against Auburn having completed 28-of-37 passes for 242 yards with a touchdown. Herbert has all the tools to be a good NFL starter. Against Auburn, he showed his strong arm, mobility, and accuracy. But there are some uneven moments for Herbert, which stem from him having struggles when facing pressure. When he's under pressure, he loses accuracy and composure, but when he has a clean pocket, he's deadly. Improving his passing under pressure is critical for him to rise this season and to be a success in the NFL.

8/15/19: During the fall when teams were looking at the 2019 NFL Draft quarterback prospects, Herbert was said to have the best skill set and had the most positive buzz in the scouting community. Instead of declaring for the 2019 NFL Draft, however, he decided to return for his senior year.

In 2018, Herbert completed 59.4 percent of his passes for 3,151 yards with 29 touchdowns and eight interceptions. He only played in eight games during 2017, but completed 67 percent of his passes for 1,750 yards with 13 touchdowns and three interceptions. The sophomore also ran for five touchdowns. As a freshman, Herbert completed 64 percent of his passes for 1,936 yards with 19 touchdowns and four interceptions.

Herbert displays good size and a strong arm with the ability to loft in touch passes. He can drop in passes with nice ball placement that leads his receivers and beats quality coverage with the location of his passes. Given his height and size, Herbert can comfortably stand tall in the pocket and demonstrate the patience to let routes develop. Along with his arm talent, Herbert is a quality athlete who has the ability to pick up yards on the ground.

For the NFL, Herbert needs to improve in his field vision and at working through his progressions. His college offense often has him throwing to his first target or only focusing on one side of the field. Still, there is no doubt that Herbert has the skill set to start on Sundays and possesses plenty of upside to develop.

Jake Fromm, QB, Georgia
Height: 6-2. Weight: 220.
Projected 40 Time: 4.79.
Projected Round (2020): 1-2.
9/19/19: In 2019, Fromm has completed 42-of-56 passes (75 percent) for 601 yards with five touchdowns and zero interceptions.

8/15/19: Fromm completed 67 percent of his passes in 2018 for 2,749 yards with 30 touchdowns and six interceptions. Because of an injury, Fromm was pressed into the starting lineup as a freshman in 2017, but he led Georgia all the way to the National Championship that season. Fromm was an excellent game-manager, making some clutch throws while protecting the football to allow his potent rushing attack and superb defense to control games. On the year, Fromm completed 62.2 percent of his passes for 2,615 yards with 24 touchdowns and seven interceptions.

There is a lot to like about Fromm translating to the NFL. The important trait for any quarterback is accuracy, which Fromm has. He places his ball well, putting it in position for his receiver to make catches while avoiding putting the ball in danger. Fromm is a good decisiom-maker who protects the ball well and doesn't get careless or panic. He is a dangerous play-action passer who can come through with some clutch throws in crunch time.

Fromm is a confident, calm, poised, and efficient pocket passer. He stands tall in the pocket and is a consistent passer, distributing the ball to all levels of the defense. He shows good timing and precision to hit his receivers through windows in coverage while leading them to produce more yards after the catch. His calm and poised approach lends to him showing field vision in the pocket, as he will move his eyes and work off his primary read. For a young quarterback, Fromm had impressive field vision at the start of his time at Georgia. While he doesn't have a cannon, Fromm will challenge defenses vertically and isn't afraid to go downfield. With his rhythm and pocket passing, Fromm would be a good fit in a west coast offense.

Steven Montez, QB, Colorado
Height: 6-5. Weight: 235.
Projected 40 Time: 4.80.
Projected Round (2020): 1-3.
9/19/19: Some team sources feel that Montez has a chance to develop into a special quarterback prospect. Montez had an ugly first half against Nebraska, getting shut out for two and half quarters. He then caught fire to lead a massive comeback and beat the Cornhuskers 34-31 in overtime. However, Montez and Colorado fell to Air Force in overtime a week later. In 2019. Montez has completed 61 percent of his passes this season for 827 yards with six touchdowns and two interceptions.

8/15/19: Montez has good size to him and flashes at times, but NFL sources said he is all over the place and needs improvement. As a junior, he completed 65 percent of his passes for 2,849 yards with 19 touchdowns and nine interceptions. In 2017, he completed 61 percent of his passes for 2,975 yards with 18 touchdowns and nine interceptions. Montez needs to improve his accuracy and consistency.

Jacob Eason*, QB, Washington
Height: 6-5. Weight: 235.
Projected 40 Time: 4.80.
Projected Round (2020): 1-3.
9/19/19: This season, Eason has completed 69 percent of his passes for 773 yards with seven touchdowns and one interception.

8/15/19: Eason sat out the 2018 season after transferring out of Georgia. He was injured in the 2017 season opener for Georgia, and Jake Fromm remained the starter for the rest of the season. The Bulldogs didn't want to change their winning formula once Eason was healthy, keeping Eason as the backup. After the 2017 season, Eason transferred to Washington.

I know some scouts who are high on Eason, so he definitely would have received serious consideration if he had entered the 2019 NFL Draft, for which he was eligible. Eason has excellent size and a quality arm with pocket-passing potential. At Georgia, he got good experience working in an offense under a respected coordinator with Jim Chaney that correlates more to the NFL than the vast majority of college offenses being used. Kirby Smart said one of the sad parts about Eason leaving Georgia was that his growth under Chaney wasn't seen nationally. Eason completed 55 percent of his passes in 2016 for 2,430 yards with 16 touchdowns and eight interceptions.

[Cugel]

Of the 0-2 teams some of these will need QBs and might take a top 5 QB if they get the chance:

Miami obviously is tanking for Tua or possibly Fromm.

Steelers would have been a possibility depending on Roethlisberger coming back, and how Rudolph plays but they traded that pick for Minkah.

Jaguars -- Nick Foles injury leaves things in air, but they like Garner Minshew a lot. That could change though.

Bengals for obvious reasons.

Carolina could be an interesting case depending on whether Cam comes around from foot injury. He hasn't been the same since the SB and Panthers haven't been a factor either. (I haven't heard anything suggesting they would give up on Cam yet, but their season isn't going well and that team does not look good).

Obviously, Giants Jets and Cardinals have their young QBs.

That leaves the Broncos. Tick, tick, tick.

[Davii]

Actually, Elway is stupid enough to not draft a QB, start Flacco, and sit Lock for this year and the next two years.

That is actually the plan. In John Elway's mind, Drew Lock is his backup QB, and is never intended to start until Flacco retires like Peyton did.

Ie he's Brock Osweiler - although they hope he'll do better than Osweiler, he's essentially Osweiler. Drafted in the mid second round like Osweiler. Intended to sit for several seasons behind a veteran QB like Osweiler. Scheduled to come in and do his job if Flacco is hurt, but then they will go back to Flacco baring some miracle.

That's their plan. :coffee:

Don't ask me whether it's a good plan. :tsk:

When did Elway tell you this?

[underrated29]

The panthers have Grier. I doubt they will be using a top pick on a QB with im in the wings and Cam still young.

[Cugel]

When did Elway tell you this?

Have you heard all his public comments? Dude. He's told everybody. :coffee:

[Cugel]

The panthers have Grier. I doubt they will be using a top pick on a QB with im in the wings and Cam still young.

You're probably right. But, I wanted to point out those 0-2 teams because those include some of the worst teams in the NFL. Some of them are likely to want QBs if they didn't draft a top prospect in the first round in the last 2 years.

[Simple Jaded]

Is tua that much better than Lock?

Fair question but I think so.

[Davii]

Have you heard all his public comments? Dude. He's told everybody. :coffee:

No. He hasn't

[Simple Jaded]

Of joy? Lol.

The Broncos front office is stupid enough to draft Tua or Lawrence and start Flacco.

I’m stupid enough to draft Tua/TD Jesus and start Flacco.