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View Full Version : Is WR Brandon Marshall (remember him?) a HOFer?



sneakers
06-19-2019, 04:21 AM
970 career receptions
12351 yards
83 TD

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MarsBr00.htm

Shazam!
06-19-2019, 05:07 AM
Statistically close, but no.

Northman
06-19-2019, 06:01 AM
Doubtful.

Davii
06-19-2019, 07:44 AM
No, he's not.

Mike
06-19-2019, 08:23 AM
nope

SR
06-19-2019, 08:40 AM
Negative.

TXBRONC
06-19-2019, 12:51 PM
Statically he has the numbers to be in the conversation.

BeefStew25
06-19-2019, 03:10 PM
He doesn’t have a ring like Bennie Fowler.

TXBRONC
06-19-2019, 05:43 PM
He doesn’t have a ring like Bennie Fowler.

True, but neither does Terrell Owens.

UnderArmour
06-19-2019, 05:46 PM
Nice stats. I wonder what his postseason stats are like?

:rofl:

D1g1tal j1m
06-19-2019, 06:10 PM
Nice stats. I wonder what his postseason stats are like?

:rofl:

Ouch...

But, I don't believe he deserves a HOF calling. He was good but I never thought of him as a game changing WR. He was a big possession type WR that made tough grabs but I don't think any D Coordinators focused their schemes to stop him.

aberdien
06-19-2019, 07:34 PM
I wish because he's a cool guy and has the talent to get into the HOF. But I don't think he ever really hit his ceiling due to off-the-field issues and etc. Gotta go with a no.

FanInAZ
06-19-2019, 07:35 PM
Just about every year there's at least 1 player that have this site goes ballistic over because its believed that he didn't do near as much as those that have been waiting for years, if not decades. A disproportionate number of these players have spent a significant amount of their careers playing for the NFL's "flagship franchises" (Bears, Giants, Cowboys & Steelers). Over the course of his 13 seasons, BM has spent 3 with the Bears & 1 with the Giants. He also spent 2 seasons with the other NY franchise. None of this should matter, but as long as Gradishar & Mecklenburg are still not let in, I'm not going to buy that it doesn't.

Cugel
06-21-2019, 06:25 AM
Didn't he have one game where he caught 21 passes or something? He gets consideration, but I doubt whether he gets in anytime soon. Perhaps he can lobby the Geezer Consideration Committee in a couple of decades. Or he can go into broadcasting, make a career of that and in a decade or so, he's still in the public eye, so the voters remember him. Guys like Gradishar just became "where are they now?" when they were done, so it's hard for them to get in.

Shazam!
06-21-2019, 07:09 AM
Just about every year there's at least 1 player that have this site goes ballistic over because its believed that he didn't do near as much as those that have been waiting for years, if not decades. A disproportionate number of these players have spent a significant amount of their careers playing for the NFL's "flagship franchises" (Bears, Giants, Cowboys & Steelers). Over the course of his 13 seasons, BM has spent 3 with the Bears & 1 with the Giants. He also spent 2 seasons with the other NY franchise. None of this should matter, but as long as Gradishar & Mecklenburg are still not let in, I'm not going to buy that it doesn't.

His year with the NYG he was considered a FA bust.

BroncoWave
06-21-2019, 07:12 AM
Too much of a logjam at that position as it is, and voters will hold the attitude/off field stuff against him. I'll be pretty stunned if he ever gets in.

Davii
06-21-2019, 07:15 AM
22nd in receiving yards
22nd in TDs
19th in catches

Each of those in an era of dominant offenses, plenty of guys from earlier eras ahead of him, and many guys ahead of him NOT in the HOF.

I don't see any argument for him making it at all.

Northman
06-21-2019, 08:00 AM
Too much of a logjam at that position as it is, and voters will hold the attitude/off field stuff against him. I'll be pretty stunned if he ever gets in.

I dont think the off field stuff will effect him much. LT and Irvin had off the field issues (and Owens was a cancer on his teams). But i agree with the other stuff that his numbers just match up with a lot of guys in front of him who are not even in yet. He was a decent WR for sure but not really consider one of the greats.

BroncoWave
06-21-2019, 10:34 AM
I dont think the off field stuff will effect him much. LT and Irvin had off the field issues (and Owens was a cancer on his teams). But i agree with the other stuff that his numbers just match up with a lot of guys in front of him who are not even in yet. He was a decent WR for sure but not really consider one of the greats.

Those guys were all surefire guys though. I think the off field stuff will play in more when you're already a borderline hof guy. Can tip the scales against you.

BroncoWave
06-21-2019, 10:38 AM
And it absolutely did hurt TO. His career should have made him a no brainer first ballot guy, but they snubbed him for 3 years because of his behavior.

Jsteve01
06-21-2019, 06:11 PM
I dont think the off field stuff will effect him much. LT and Irvin had off the field issues (and Owens was a cancer on his teams). But i agree with the other stuff that his numbers just match up with a lot of guys in front of him who are not even in yet. He was a decent WR for sure but not really consider one of the greats.

I think decent understates how good he was. He was very good and dominant at times. But very good combined with the weirdness wont get him in

Cugel
06-22-2019, 07:16 PM
I think you guys understate how political the voting is. It's a club and they vote in their members. Really, Terrell Davis' decision to take a media career made him a certainty to get in eventually, even though most voters considered that he hadn't played long enough by traditional standards.

I didn't agree with that idea, for a lot of reasons we don't need to mention, but the elite writers who are HOF voters did care. They have their little club rules and one of them is you are either in the club or out of the club.

Another club rule is that one member will never publicly criticize another member or worse, the club rules. "Only people who can't get into society criticize society." -- Snobs everywhere through time.

If you are so elite they can't possibly ignore you, then fine. You get in. But, if you're marginal? There are a lot of marginal guys and their number grows every year. Do they get in or not? That's where the politics gets you in or hurts you. You could be a guy who just retired and bought a sailboat; gone. Out of sight out of mind. That guy might never get in.

Another guy gets a job on ESPN and suddenly his face is all over TV. He has no problem getting in.

spikerman
06-24-2019, 04:50 PM
And it absolutely did hurt TO. His career should have made him a no brainer first ballot guy, but they snubbed him for 3 years because of his behavior.
I disagree. I wish he hadn’t gotten in. I think the HoF should reserve spots for receivers who can catch.

BroncoWave
06-24-2019, 08:32 PM
I disagree. I wish he hadn’t gotten in. I think the HoF should reserve spots for receivers who can catch.

Huh???

BroncoWave
06-24-2019, 08:36 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/02/18/terrell-owens-dropped-passes-as-great-receivers-do/amp/


After going through all the Stats, LLC, drops data for Owens’ career, I’ve compiled these notes on Owens’ dropped passes in each of his 15 NFL seasons:

1996: Owens dropped just one pass while making 35 catches as a rookie.

1997: Owens dropped five passes and wasn’t even in the Top 50 in drops. Hall of Famer Michael Irvin was second in the NFL with 11 drops, while Hall of Famer Tim Brown was tied for fourth with nine drops.

1998: Owens dropped five passes and wasn’t even in the Top 50 in drops while catching 64.4 percent of the passes thrown to him. His teammate Jerry Rice dropped eight passes and was tied for 12th in drops while catching 54.3 percent of the passes thrown to him.

1999: Owens again dropped five passes, again wasn’t even in the Top 50 in drops, and again had better marks than Rice while playing in the same offense: Owens caught 61.2 percent of the passes thrown to him while Rice dropped nine passes and caught 54.0 percent of the passes thrown to him.

2000: Owens dropped 13 passes and was fourth in the NFL in drops. Leading the NFL in drops that year with 16 was Rod Smith, who has been discussed as a Hall of Fame candidate.

2001: Owens dropped 10 passes and was tied for fourth in the NFL. (Owens also led the league in touchdown catches.)

2002: Owens dropped 10 passes, tied for ninth in the NFL. Tied with, among others, Jerry Rice, who dropped the same number of passes while having fewer catches, fewer yards and fewer touchdowns than Owens. Hall of Famer Marvin Harrison led the NFL with 16 drops.

2003: Owens dropped 11 passes and was tied for third in the NFL. He also caught 80 passes for 1,102 yards and nine touchdowns and went to the Pro Bowl.

2004: Owens dropped seven passes. There were 17 NFL players who dropped as many or more passes than Owens while catching fewer passes that season.

2005: Owens dropped five passes, tied for 36th in the NFL.

2006: Owens led the NFL with 17 drops. This is Owens’ first year in Dallas and the one and only year when it’s legitimate to argue that he dropped an inordinate amount of passes. It’s also worth noting that he led the NFL in touchdown catches.

2007: Owens dropped 10 passes, tied for third in the NFL. He also caught 81 passes for 1,355 yards and 15 touchdowns and was chosen as a first-team All-Pro.

2008: Owens dropped 10 passes, fourth in the NFL. He also caught 69 passes for 1,052 yards and 10 touchdowns.

2009: Owens dropped nine passes and was tied for fourth in the NFL. He also led an otherwise terrible Bills passing offense with 55 catches for 829 yards.

2010: Owens was tied with Brandon Marshall for third in drops. Wes Welker was first and Reggie Wayne was second.

So did Owens drop a lot of passes? Sure, especially as his career was winding down in Dallas, Buffalo and Cincinnati. But a lot of great receivers drop a lot of passes. Is Borges going to argue that Jerry Rice, Michael Irvin, Tim Brown and Marvin Harrison should be removed from the Hall of Fame because they were all on the drops leaderboards with Owens? Is Borges going to argue that Rod Smith, Brandon Marshall, Wes Welker and Reggie Wayne don’t have good career résumés because they were all on the drops leaderboards with Owens?

When you’re knocking a player because he did a lot of bad things — dropped a lot of passes or threw a lot of interceptions or fumbled a lot — it’s important to remember that you can only be in a position to do a lot of bad things if your team is relying on you a lot, and your team is only going to rely on you a lot if you’re a good player. Brett Favre is the NFL’s all-time leader in both interceptions and fumbles, but no one disputes that he belongs in the Hall of Fame.

BroncoWave
06-24-2019, 08:51 PM
Spike, you're my boy, but to say the guy who retired 5th all time in catches, second in yards, and second in TDs shouldn't be in the hof because he "couldn't catch" is a pretty wild take. He did drop a fair amount of passes, but he was also consistently one of the most targeted WRs I'm football. Drops come with the territory.

spikerman
06-25-2019, 06:06 PM
I get it buddy. I’ve just always thought he had the worst hands I’ve ever seen for a “big time” receiver. Couple that with his poisonous attitude and I’d look past the numbers to find someone else to enshrine.

BeefStew25
06-25-2019, 06:11 PM
Spike, you're my boy, but to say the guy who retired 5th all time in catches, second in yards, and second in TDs shouldn't be in the hof because he "couldn't catch" is a pretty wild take. He did drop a fair amount of passes, but he was also consistently one of the most targeted WRs I'm football. Drops come with the territory.

That’s good point. Like you’re gonna get a lot of STD’s if you’re with a lot of women.

chanesaw
06-25-2019, 08:09 PM
I feel Rod Smith deserves it much more than him.

BroncoWave
06-25-2019, 10:25 PM
I get it buddy. I’ve just always thought he had the worst hands I’ve ever seen for a “big time” receiver. Couple that with his poisonous attitude and I’d look past the numbers to find someone else to enshrine.

I just don't think you can possibly leave out someone with his career numbers. The hof becomes meaningless if the best players aren't in it. I think the baseball Hof is a joke for that reason.

I get that he was a dick and dropped a lot of passes, but only Jerry Rice put up better stats than him in the 3 major receiving categories when he retired. The good simply outweighed the bad. To me he became a Hof lock when he played the super bowl on a broken leg and was the best player in the game.

Hawgdriver
06-26-2019, 12:59 AM
I just don't think you can possibly leave out someone with his career numbers. The hof becomes meaningless if the best players aren't in it. I think the baseball Hof is a joke for that reason.

I get that he was a dick and dropped a lot of passes, but only Jerry Rice put up better stats than him in the 3 major receiving categories when he retired. The good simply outweighed the bad. To me he became a Hof lock when he played the super bowl on a broken leg and was the best player in the game.

Yeah, TO is a headcase but slam dunk HOF player.

Then you go, what does HOF mean? Is it about the person, or the player? Because if it's about the player, as it should be, since the whole point is the sport between the whistles, then yeah.

But the person matters too, because we revere heroes, and they can't be Tyreek Hills.

Marshall is a hell of a player, it's too bad the circumstances didn't line up better...I like him more than TO for some reason, but if we are taking about 'deserves' as some sort of measure of 'did it the right way' then Rod Smith should be in there five times before either of those cats.

UnderArmour
06-27-2019, 04:25 PM
There will always be a huge "What if?" hanging over the careers of Cutler and Marshall for me. If McDaniels never got the job, and the Broncos had instead gone for a defensive candidate (Spagnolo was the hot name at the time but Ron Rivera was landing interviews), both Cutler/Marshall definitely would have had better fortunes. It is absolutely crazy to think that Brandon Marshall never once made it to the playoffs in his entire NFL career, and that Cutler did not fare too much better.

Obviously, Marshall is not a Hall of Fame player. If he had been a member of the Steelers, Colts, or Patriots for a long stretch of his career with some playoff stats, he actually would be worthy of a discussion.

Cugel
06-28-2019, 07:20 AM
There will always be a huge "What if?" hanging over the careers of Cutler and Marshall for me. If McDaniels never got the job, and the Broncos had instead gone for a defensive candidate (Spagnolo was the hot name at the time but Ron Rivera was landing interviews), both Cutler/Marshall definitely would have had better fortunes. It is absolutely crazy to think that Brandon Marshall never once made it to the playoffs in his entire NFL career, and that Cutler did not fare too much better.

Obviously, Marshall is not a Hall of Fame player. If he had been a member of the Steelers, Colts, or Patriots for a long stretch of his career with some playoff stats, he actually would be worthy of a discussion.

It's hard to imagine Cutler being any different with Steve Spagnolo or Ron Rivera. But, his alienation from his teammates didn't seem to be as great in Denver with Mike Shanahan. Shanny seemed to be able to reach him.

I've always wondered what would have happened if Pat Bowlen gave Mike 1 more year. Then McDaniels would have destroyed some other franchise.

Or if they had picked Spagnolo or someone else. The record would have been better in 2009 and 2010, so no Von Miller in 2011. They probably would have stuck with Cutler right up till 2012. On the other hand, nobody else would have been as insane with their draft picks like McMoron.

Broncos in the first and second round in 2009 had FIVE total picks, #s 12, 18, 37, 48, 64. Yet they came away with: Knowshon Moreno, Robert Ayers, Alphonso Smith, Darcel McBath and TE Richard Quinn. I don't even know how drafting that bad is possible!

UnderArmour
06-28-2019, 07:39 AM
I watch a lot of Bears games because I grew up in a Chi Sports family, and I can tell you Cutler got absolutely demolished year in and year out by terrible protection in front of him. I would go as far to say that Cutler would actually still be in the league if he had not been traded. Cutler's deal was he could win games solely on his arm... But he also lost a lot of games with his arrogance. Cutler with Hillis, Marshall, and protection with a defensive minded HC has the team back in the playoffs in 2011 and probably still beating the Steelers, but as you said no Von Miller.

Jsteve01
06-28-2019, 08:31 AM
It's hard to imagine Cutler being any different with Steve Spagnolo or Ron Rivera. But, his alienation from his teammates didn't seem to be as great in Denver with Mike Shanahan. Shanny seemed to be able to reach him.

I've always wondered what would have happened if Pat Bowlen gave Mike 1 more year. Then McDaniels would have destroyed some other franchise.

Or if they had picked Spagnolo or someone else. The record would have been better in 2009 and 2010, so no Von Miller in 2011. They probably would have stuck with Cutler right up till 2012. On the other hand, nobody else would have been as insane with their draft picks like McMoron.

Broncos in the first and second round in 2009 had FIVE total picks, #s 12, 18, 37, 48, 64. Yet they came away with: Knowshon Moreno, Robert Ayers, Alphonso Smith, Darcel McBath and TE Richard Quinn. I don't even know how drafting that bad is possible!

Jeremy Bates as well. Behind the scenes that was another piece to the drama. He loved Bates and when Mcd understandably went with his own guys. Jay was even more pissed.

Northman
06-28-2019, 10:18 AM
I watch a lot of Bears games because I grew up in a Chi Sports family, and I can tell you Cutler got absolutely demolished year in and year out by terrible protection in front of him. I would go as far to say that Cutler would actually still be in the league if he had not been traded. Cutler's deal was he could win games solely on his arm... But he also lost a lot of games with his arrogance. Cutler with Hillis, Marshall, and protection with a defensive minded HC has the team back in the playoffs in 2011 and probably still beating the Steelers, but as you said no Von Miller.

Jay's immaturity along with the circumstances of McD and so was really the tale of his career. Who knows if we had gone straight to Fox or Kubes how he may have turned out with more consistency (team wise) but a good part of that onus was on Jay as well. Jay should have had faith in this teammates in Denver to remain but instead chose to jump ship because of that arrogance.

Nomad
06-28-2019, 11:26 AM
3 pages for a simple NO. :D

UnderArmour
06-28-2019, 03:20 PM
3 pages for a simple NO. :D

Offseason is rough, and June/July are even rougher. Marshall certainly did have an impact on the league with regards to mental health, but I think what gets understated here is the impact he had on the television he broke (along with his wrist) after he slipped on a McDonald's bag. Athletes across ALL the major sports leagues surely learned to be more cautious about discarding fast food bags onto the ground after that incident.

Poet
06-30-2019, 11:19 AM
If he didn't have the mental demons he would have been. Talent wasn't an issue. And he was productive at high levels for quite some time. Just didn't have the finishing touch, so to speak.

Davii
06-30-2019, 11:18 PM
If he didn't have the mental demons he would have been. Talent wasn't an issue. And he was productive at high levels for quite some time. Just didn't have the finishing touch, so to speak.

No way to prove or disprove. Mental demons or not, he is not HOF material.

Poet
06-30-2019, 11:19 PM
No way to prove or disprove. Mental demons or not, he is not HOF material.

Based off the facts before us, no, he is not.

The rest of that is just my opinion. I like to opine. It suits me fine. It makes me kind. Opiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine!

BroncoWave
07-01-2019, 08:37 AM
No way to prove or disprove. Mental demons or not, he is not HOF material.

I think he pretty clearly had Hof talent. I don't even see how that's in dispute. His mental issues clearly hurt his career.

sneakers
07-02-2019, 06:12 AM
Didn't he have one game where he caught 21 passes or something? He gets consideration, but I doubt whether he gets in anytime soon. Perhaps he can lobby the Geezer Consideration Committee in a couple of decades. Or he can go into broadcasting, make a career of that and in a decade or so, he's still in the public eye, so the voters remember him. Guys like Gradishar just became "where are they now?" when they were done, so it's hard for them to get in.

I went to that game in Indianapolis.....the broncos lost of course, because the broncos are 0-7 with me in attendance in the stadium they are playing.

Bronco Bible
07-02-2019, 03:19 PM
970 career receptions
12351 yards
83 TD

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MarsBr00.htm

NO!!!

Cugel
07-03-2019, 02:30 PM
Jay's immaturity along with the circumstances of McD and so was really the tale of his career. Who knows if we had gone straight to Fox or Kubes how he may have turned out with more consistency (team wise) but a good part of that onus was on Jay as well. Jay should have had faith in this teammates in Denver to remain but instead chose to jump ship because of that arrogance.

That narrative bears no correspondence to the facts. Jay didn't "choose" to do anything. The very first thing McMoron did when he hit town was to decide to trade Cutler for Matt Cassel. That was already an insane idea because Cutler was worth much more in trade than Matt Cassel.

He heard initially from McMoron the typical "hi, I'm the new head coach, glad to work with you, glad you're my QB, yada-yada."

Then IMMEDIATELY, within about 1 day, McMoron was actively trying to acquire Matt Cassel from the Patriots and trade Cutler. He was lying to Cutler, lying to the media, lying to everybody in the typical arrogant Cheetriots manner. He even had his desk arranged exactly like Bill Belichick.

Then Belichick screwed McMoron and traded Matt Cassel to KC for a 2nd round pick. Now McMoron has blown all his bridges.

The fans are pissed at him because of his idiot Cutler for Cassel trade idea. He was stuck with Cutler, and had to deal with him. Cutler was pissed at him because of being lied to. There was the immediate pissing match between Cutler and McMoron where Cutler wanted to be traded.

Pat Bowlen tried to get into it, but at this point there was no way to repair that relationship. Under pressure from all sides McMoron sat down with Cutler and delivered a 20 minute monologue on how nothing was his fault. Cutler then issued a presser in which he stated what was the obvious truth -- that he had gone into the meeting expecting McMoron to mend the fences so that they could work together for the season, and then McMoron could work out a trade or whatever the next season (2010).

But, McMoron had other ideas. He was simply going to lie massively to shift all the blame to Cutler. At this point it was 100% on McMoron and ZERO percent on Cutler.

Then Cutler, being arrogant Jay decided that he wanted to get out of town. So, when Pat Bowlen called him personally and left a message he, Cutler, ignored the message, totally disrespecting Mr. B. B. was correctly angry and told McMoron to go ahead and trade Cutler.

Then multiple teams approached Denver with trade offers. I think the Jets offer was the highest (they had a high first round pick). But, McMoron had already decided that he wanted Kyle Orton as his QB so this limited him to doing business with Chicago. So, that's what he did.

Then he wasted all those picks on Knowshon Moreno, Robert Ayers, Alphonso Smith, Darcel McBath and TE Richard Quinn.

Meanwhile Cutler went on to Chicago, where they welcomed him like a hero. However, being Jay he alienated the fans and his teammates with his "I don't care attitude."

That's why I think Shanny's firing was a disaster for Cutler. It seemed like Shanahan was able to coach him and nobody else ever seemed able to reach him. IDK if that would actually have been true in future of course, because it never happened.

BeefStew25
07-03-2019, 05:35 PM
14499

JPPT1974
07-03-2019, 10:37 PM
Someone that said Rod Smith was better. Yeah but Brandon Marshall great W.R. but not H.O.F. worthy!