Prospects For the Defense In 2019!

[Cugel]

The off-season's now about to get going with FA and the draft. Now's a good time to sound off on what to expect from Vic Fangio's new shiny defense this year.

Some of you may have a different opinion than me so you get to sound off:

It looks like the defense should be improved over last year. In 2018 the defense was 13th in the all important Points Allowed, the only statistic that really matters, with 349 points allowed.

So, about a B to B+, not an A. They were used to being a top 10 defense, but they really declined and weren't that any more, let alone an elite defense.

So, just for that alone, Joe Woods and Vance Joseph deserved firing! So richly deserved firing as they were supposed to be defensive experts when they were hired. That was the supposed reason to hire them in the first place!

Major problem has been the loss of talent on defense since the SB.

Malik Jackson and Danny Trevathan left in FA, DeMarcus Ware retired and nobody remotely comparable replaced them. DeMarcus Walker was supposed to develop into a standout defensive tackle. He was drafted #51 of the second round in 2015.

And most of you have forgotten or never even knew he was on the team. He's a healthy scratch every game, and he's barely seen any action - he got into 10 games in 2017, but only was active in 3 games last year. ZERO impact. He's another total Elway bust.

So, there is a need at DE where Derek Wolfe ain't getting any younger or healthier. He's good when healthy, but for how much longer will he be healthy with his injury history?

They got rid of Domato Pecko so another vacancy to fill in the draft or FA.

Inside LB is in transition, losing Brandon Marshall and going to a new Fangio style defensive system like what he ran in Chicago. Mock drafts have them taking LSU LB Devin White:


2/16/19: White is your quintessential linebacker (https://walterfootball.com/draft2019ILB.php)who is a physical force against the run, covers ground in pass defense, and is a team leader who sets the tone for a violent, intimidating defense. White is worthy of being a top-16 pick in any draft class because he looks like a future difference-maker as a three-down starter in the NFL. He is a good fit for either a 4-3 or a 3-4 defense. White should be a starter quickly in his NFL career and could be a Pro Bowler early on.

If he's available they are expected to jump on him, since Fangio's defenses always feature such an elite agile LB.

Biggest other improvement is to continue the development of Bradley Chubb who had a monster year last year for a rookie with 12 sacks and 60 tackles. To continue off that trajectory puts him into elite All-Pro territory very quickly - somewhere around 15 sacks a year - that's elite. Only guys with 15 sacks last year were Aaron Donald, J.J. Watt and Chris Jones. That's the caliber of player Chubb is or should be with proper coaching and development.

So, the defense should definitely be better next year, but they need that elite inside LB. CJ Mosley is also available, but he'll cost a boat-load! At least 15m a year, and he'd probably want around Von Miller money (the market goes up every year, Von would get more if he were a FA now).


When the Baltimore Ravens drafted Mosley, they envisioned him slotting in as Ray Lewis’ replacement (https://www.milehighreport.com/2019/2/11/18218036/broncos-free-agent-target-linebacker-cj-mosley). While Mosley didn’t quite match Lewis’ 80.0-plus grades in his first four seasons, he still became a consistent leader of the Ravens’ vaunted defense. He’s placed top-35 in run-stop percentage in each of his four years, including a career-best 10.6 percent in 2018. Mosley dispelled talk that he was a liability in coverage after posting career-lows in yards allowed (408), yards per reception (9.3) and yards after the catch (190). If he doesn’t get a big contract in Baltimore, another team will certainly be willing to shell out.

Secondary is in wild transition:

Bradley Roby is gone, gone baby gone. Darian Stewart, see-ya later! Will Parks and Isaac Yiadom will be relied on. So, they already have a crying need to draft a CB and veteran depth at S wouldn't hurt either.

CB could be an early draft consideration in the first or second round.

Overall, with decent coaching instead of Vance and Joe WOoDs (whom I swear seemed to be on magic mushrooms much of the time) they should be right back in the top 10 defensively. But, they do have to fill a few holes and prepare for a future without Derek Wolfe in the next couple years.

All in all, the defensive prospects are very bright. Offensive, not so much, as we'll see shortly. :defense:

[kenoy28]

Losing Talib had a bigger impact than I expected. On the defensive side, I think a good corner, a decent safety, and Mosley need to be top FA priorities for us this year. I believe Mosley is worth every penny we'd throw at him. The draft is deep at DT/DE, so I think going for depth there should be through the draft.

For our first round pick, if Murray, Haskins, or Lock are there at our spot, we need to take them. I know that's an unpopular stance, but when you are up this high in the draft, and you don't have a decent QB on the roster, you need to roll the dice--it's such a crapshoot with QB's in the draft, and you never know when you might land the next franchise QB.

[Cugel]

The problem is that they decided not to renew Bradley Roby's contract and he was supposed to be Talib's replacement. He didn't work out so they are letting him walk. They need to find some CB talent in FA or in the draft now.

[Northman]

A lot of people in Bmore dont think Mosley is going anywhere.

[Cugel]

A lot of people in Bmore dont think Mosley is going anywhere.

Well, it's like Paradis in Denver. Re-signing top veterans is a big priority, but are they willing to pay the price?

It is hard for a team to let a player hit FA and THEN re-sign them. Usually if a team lets it get that far, then the player will get a bigger offer and be gone. Sometimes there's not the market the player anticipated and he doesn't get that bigger offer. When that happens sometimes he re-signs with his old team and sometimes not.

So, they can re-sign Mosley but he's going to get just ridiculous money. Paradis will get somewhere between $9 and $10m a year. Doubtful the Broncos pay it.

Mosley should have been re-signed last year if they wanted to keep him. Now they will have to pay top $ and that is very expensive.

[dogfish]

A lot of people in Bmore dont think Mosley is going anywhere.

he's not the only option in FA. . . kwon alexander would be a great pickup. . . KJ wright would fit, if he's healthy-- jamie collins would also work. . .

[turftoad]

Mosley is good no doubt about it. However, not as good as the way someone is going to pay him. I'm with Dog here!

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I want Mosley

[CoachChaz]

Mosley is good no doubt about it. However, not as good as the way someone is going to pay him. I'm with Dog here!

I think that is TBD. Yes, he's the best ILB option on the market, but with Alexander there and Jamie Collins just being added to the list, it is getting longer and there are options. It's not like at OG where Saffold is going to get overpaid by simply being the only reliable one on the market.

[CoachChaz]

A lot of people in Bmore dont think Mosley is going anywhere.

I read an article and cant remember where, but it showed that like 4% of free agents actually re-sign with their old team after being allowed to enter free agency.

Baltimore has about 30 mil in cap space and a desperate need at WR since they cut Crabtree and Brown is a FA. They could also use help on the edge with Suggs and Smith headed for FA. So, if the market for Mosely truly hits 10-11 mil...I just don't see them squeezing all that in.

[Cugel]

I read an article and cant remember where, but it showed that like 4% of free agents actually re-sign with their old team after being allowed to enter free agency.

Baltimore has about 30 mil in cap space and a desperate need at WR since they cut Crabtree and Brown is a FA. They could also use help on the edge with Suggs and Smith headed for FA. So, if the market for Mosely truly hits 10-11 mil...I just don't see them squeezing all that in.

You said it Coach. It's possible for teams to keep a player - they just have to re-negotiate a new deal with him the off-season before his contract expires. A refusal to do that is a refusal to commit to the player long term.

The team may feel he'll want too much money and they don't want to spend that much on him, they might want to "wait and see" what develops, thinking that there won't be that much market on a player and that they'll be able to re-negotiate with him later without risking player injury.

Or they may simply think that they can get players to re-sign for below market price without re-doing their contracts a year early. Elway is in that camp. He keeps thinking that Denver is some kind of desirable destination for FA and that he can get them to come here below market.

That works if you have Peyton Manning, and some players decide to come here to win a SB at the end of their careers. DeMarcus Ware did that and Peyton restructured his contract to stay here in Denver his last year. Etc.

But, unless you've got Tom Brady or Drew Brees or Aaron Rogers at QB nobody is coming to play for your team and take less money. Denver is not any more enticing than 20 other places a top player could play. They'll take the money.

So, I doubt we see Mosley in Denver, or back in a Ravens uniform next season. He's going to want too much $.

[Simple Jaded]

See what it takes to get Darron Lee, he’s not the player Todd Davis is but he’s the athlete Fangio wants.

[Hawgdriver]

I hope Davis has a prominent role next year and kicks major ass. Fangio would know what to do with him...hint: turning hips to chase a TE ain't it.

[CoachChaz]

I'm interested in KJ Wright on a "prove you can stay healthy" deal. Also interested in Rodney Gunter for DL depth

[dogfish]

See what it takes to get Darron Lee, he’s not the player Todd Davis is but he’s the athlete Fangio wants.


I'm interested in KJ Wright on a "prove you can stay healthy" deal. Also interested in Rodney Gunter for DL depth

i'm on board with both of these. . . still really want devin white, but i don't think he's gonna be there. . . wright is a stud if he's healthy, and lee was finally putting it together earlier this year. . . i think either one brings a more fangio-friendly skill set than the guys we currently have there. . .

[Simple Jaded]

i'm on board with both of these. . . still really want devin white, but i don't think he's gonna be there. . . wright is a stud if he's healthy, and lee was finally putting it together earlier this year. . . i think either one brings a more fangio-friendly skill set than the guys we currently have there. . .

Dog I’m talking about getting Lee regardless of who they get at 10, if White is still there I hope they jump all over that too.

Jamie Collins should be considered too, though he’s not that he used to be. Zach Brown was released too, he should’ve been their guy for the last 3 offseasons.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Reports that we have potential trade interest in Darron Lee from the Jets. May be a draft day deal pending on how things fall.

[UnderArmour]

Reports that we have potential trade interest in Darron Lee from the Jets. May be a draft day deal pending on how things fall.

Realistically, he's not going to net the Jets anything more than a 5th or a 6th rounder. The max value the Jets would get is what we gave up last year for Cravens. It would be a nice addition to the linebacker room, but it won't stop the team from drafting White or Bush.

[Simple Jaded]

Emanuel Ogbah goes to Chefs, this displeases me.

[TXBRONC]

Emanuel Ogbah goes to Chefs, this displeases me.

Don't most things displease you? :D

[Cugel]

The only Chiefs news that would please me is "Kansas City sinks into a giant underground cavern, severely impacting the Chiefs season!" :rockon:

[broncofaninfla]

Take it for what it's worth but this may be the best crop of DL and LB's that I've ever seen during this years senior bowl practice. This draft is DEEP in both positions, pass rushers galore. If Denver truly sticks with a BPA I could see the first two rounds being used on defensive players.

[underrated29]

Lets say Ed Oliver and Dev White (I like bush better) are there. Who do you take?

[TXBRONC]

Lets say Ed Oliver and Dev White (I like bush better) are there. Who do you take?

White.

[Simple Jaded]

Lets say Ed Oliver and Dev White (I like bush better) are there. Who do you take?

Oliver at 10 and Bush in the late 20’s.

Edit

I think interior pass rush is the biggest misssing piece of the SB 50 defense, they never replaced Malik Jackson.

[Freyaka]

Just added another fairly decent corner, if we can re-sign Chris Harris, we're set at corner, just need a MLB really because we can move Jackson to Safety and that helps bolster that.

[TXBRONC]

Getting interior pass rusher is certainly needed, but white or Bush seem like the safer options.

[Hawgdriver]

Getting interior pass rusher is certainly needed, but white or Bush seem like the safer options.

there's also the question of how long it will take a DT to be a difference maker vs. an ILB

[Nomad]

If a DT can cover a TE.....I'm all for it. We need someone to cover TE's.

[dogfish]

Lets say Ed Oliver and Dev White (I like bush better) are there. Who do you take?

white is right, honkies!

[Cugel]

Oliver at 10 and Bush in the late 20’s.

Edit

I think interior pass rush is the biggest misssing piece of the SB 50 defense, they never replaced Malik Jackson.

That's true. But, remember that Malik was a 5th round pick. It's not necessary to find a pass-rushing DL only in the first 10 picks, those guys are simply more developed. However, DL take a year or two to develop anyway, so whoever they get is unlikely to have a huge impact in their rookie year.

Denver could have kept Malik (he said publicly later), but refused to renegotiate him until he hit FA and then he got a huge offer of $15m from Jacksonville.

[TXBRONC]

white is right, honkies!

Who you calling honky, honky? :D

[Elevation inc]

Oliver has been rumored to have some Diva concerns among teams. Team sources say the media has overhyped his pro day a bit and that while had a good pro day, he showed some diva tendencies that caused some rumblings among team staff that had presence there. I have no issue with addressing the OL or DL at 10, and I still think Oliver would be a beast pick, especially if white is gone and we don't see a QB we want. However where there is smoke there is often fire, so its either teams wanting him to drop talking trash, or there are some personality concerns with him.

[TXBRONC]

Oliver has been rumored to have some Diva concerns among teams. Team sources say the media has overhyped his pro day a bit and that while had a good pro day, he showed some diva tendencies that caused some rumblings among team staff that had presence there. I have no issue with addressing the OL or DL at 10, and I still think Oliver would be a beast pick, especially if white is gone and we don't see a QB we want. However where there is smoke there is often fire, so its either teams wanting him to drop talking trash, or there are some personality concerns with him.

I'm all for adding to Denver's pass rush, the more the better. But I also believe Denver should draft a quarterback as long as it isn't Thorson. He sucks ass. :wave: :D

Seriously, Thorson wouldn't be my first choice for mid-round quarterback but if Denver does select him I'll root for him because he's a Bronco.

[Elevation inc]

I'm all for adding to Denver's pass rush, the more the better. But I also believe Denver should draft a quarterback as long as it isn't Thorson. He sucks ass. :wave: :D

Seriously, Thorson wouldn't be my first choice for mid-round quarterback but if Denver does select him I'll root for him because he's a Bronco.

We can no longer be friends :mad::mad::mad: :lol::lol::lol:

[TXBRONC]

We can no longer be friends :mad::mad::mad: :lol::lol::lol:

Sorry El it's just the way I see it my friend. :nod:

[CoachChaz]

Sorry El it's just the way I see it my friend. :nod:

You're not alone. With some significant development, I think Thorson can be a solid back-up and spot starter, but his arm strength, accuracy and progressions are very inhibitive.

[Cugel]

You're not alone. With some significant development, I think Thorson can be a solid back-up and spot starter, but his arm strength, accuracy and progressions are very inhibitive.

Denver doesn't need a backup and spot starter, it needs a future franchise QB who can be developed. Whoever Elway drafts I imagine they try to do what they tried with Osweiler. Develop him for a couple of years behind Flacco and then give him the starting job.

Of course Osweiler turned out to be a bust, but it worked with Jimmy Garopolo. Unfortunately, Elway keeps looking for the next giraffe who can't play so this might not work.

[Simple Jaded]

Actually Cugel, they got rid of their backup/stop starter. He gone.

[Elevation inc]

You're not alone. With some significant development, I think Thorson can be a solid back-up and spot starter, but his arm strength, accuracy and progressions are very inhibitive.

Most of his tape directly contradicts what you say about progressions and arm strength. Accuracy I could buy due to perhaps mechanics....but last 2 years over 60%..., forcing the ball, not trusting his teammates enough and turnovers are his big issues. I have seen tons of plays on film where he gets to 3rd and 4th progression with ease, but I have also seen him stare down and force throws he shouldn't have like any college QB with middle tier coaching......I'm pretty confident a good OC or Qb's coach gets to work with him he is gonna develop nicely. If he goes to Miami or something he is probably screwed lol

Anyways always love for ya Coach! We will just have to see I guess......

On a side note, newest rumor has us not taking a QB at 10, because we don't want to create controversy for Flacco, If that's true they must have seen what most of us saw from Flacco last year after Jackson was drafted.....but don't worry Flacco is a SB MVP in his prime with apparently a delicate make-up......Were good :rolleyes::rolleyes: :lol:

[Elevation inc]

Actually Cugel, they got rid of their backup/stop starter. He gone.

No we just replaced him with another one that apparently has a delicate make-up as well....Anyone see Mayock's comments.....he is doing it right. He states "Derek Carr is a franchise QB, but if there is a better player at QB in this draft then we would look at taking him, because at the end of the day you have to do what's best for the organization.....

[Elevation inc]

Denver doesn't need a backup and spot starter, it needs a future franchise QB who can be developed. Whoever Elway drafts I imagine they try to do what they tried with Osweiler. Develop him for a couple of years behind Flacco and then give him the starting job.

Of course Osweiler turned out to be a bust, but it worked with Jimmy Garopolo. Unfortunately, Elway keeps looking for the next giraffe who can't play so this might not work.

If we don't go Qb in rd 1. We did look at some guys in Thorson, Stidham, Rypien that could be developed into that franchise guy....so there is always hope, but I'm not holding my breath Elway knows what he is doing at QB anymore.....I think were just hoping Flacco can manage the game, take a couple shots and get lucky. I think Elway wants to jumpstart the defense again, and pound the ball. We got a SB that way, and he saw what NE did to the Rams last year.....I expect interior Pass rush, ILB or a trade back from pick 10

[Cugel]

Actually Cugel, they got rid of their backup/stop starter. He gone.

He proved that he was a starting caliber QB. Then Brady had a period tantrum that some dude was looking over his shoulder, and after a little chat with Bob Kraft, apparently not involving Busty Asian Beauty Massage techniques, Kraft insisted that they deal Garapolo.

Belichick said "alright. SF, would you like Garapolo for a 2nd round pick."

But, that success in developing Garapolo is exactly what the Broncos need to shoot for. They haven't been able to do it, ever.

Tommy Maddox - no.
Brian Griese - no.
Jay Cutler - uh, no.
Tim Tebow - no.
Brock Osweiler - nope
Trevor Siemian - no
Paxton Lynch - Big NOPE.
Chad Kelly - Negatory.

The Broncos have literally never been able to draft and develop a QB going back to Elway (they didn't draft him remember?).

[CoachChaz]

Most of his tape directly contradicts what you say about progressions and arm strength. Accuracy I could buy due to perhaps mechanics....but last 2 years over 60%..., forcing the ball, not trusting his teammates enough and turnovers are his big issues. I have seen tons of plays on film where he gets to 3rd and 4th progression with ease, but I have also seen him stare down and force throws he shouldn't have like any college QB with middle tier coaching......I'm pretty confident a good OC or Qb's coach gets to work with him he is gonna develop nicely. If he goes to Miami or something he is probably screwed lol

Anyways always love for ya Coach! We will just have to see I guess......

On a side note, newest rumor has us not taking a QB at 10, because we don't want to create controversy for Flacco, If that's true they must have seen what most of us saw from Flacco last year after Jackson was drafted.....but don't worry Flacco is a SB MVP in his prime with apparently a delicate make-up......Were good :rolleyes::rolleyes: :lol:

I guess I still disagree...with love for you too, bro. When I watch his games, I see a slow process through his progressions. Maybe coaching can help that, but I also just dont see a solid amount of arm strength. I'm not expecting a Drew Lock cannon, but to me he just reeks of back-up material. And I'd be good with that if we drafted him for that purpose. But in all honesty, I dont have a ton of faith in the top 4 QB's ever panning out into top 10 QB material, so my faith in anything after that is even more limited.

[Freyaka]

Denver doesn't need a backup and spot starter, it needs a future franchise QB who can be developed. Whoever Elway drafts I imagine they try to do what they tried with Osweiler. Develop him for a couple of years behind Flacco and then give him the starting job.

Of course Osweiler turned out to be a bust, but it worked with Jimmy Garopolo. Unfortunately, Elway keeps looking for the next giraffe who can't play so this might not work.

The giraffe meme is a bit tired and played out.

Current QB's 6'6 (yes, Flacco's tall...big difference is he's got some talent) 6'4, 6'2
2018 QB's Brock and Paxton 6'7, Starter Trevor 6'3, Kelly 6'2
2017 the pre-existing giraffes, kelly, Trevor and Sloter who was 6'4
2016 the Giraffes, Trevor, Manning 6'5, Sanchez 6'2, Davis 6'2

He's taken two tall guys in the draft, but most of the rest of the QB's we've had have been shorter than 6'6. This meme that Elway only goes after tall QB's doesn't hold water when held up against scrutiny. Let it go already...

[Freyaka]

He proved that he was a starting caliber QB. Then Brady had a period tantrum that some dude was looking over his shoulder, and after a little chat with Bob Kraft, apparently not involving Busty Asian Beauty Massage techniques, Kraft insisted that they deal Garapolo.

Belichick said "alright. SF, would you like Garapolo for a 2nd round pick."

But, that success in developing Garapolo is exactly what the Broncos need to shoot for. They haven't been able to do it, ever.

Tommy Maddox - no.
Brian Griese - no.
Jay Cutler - uh, no.
Tim Tebow - no.
Brock Osweiler - nope
Trevor Siemian - no
Paxton Lynch - Big NOPE.
Chad Kelly - Negatory.

The Broncos have literally never been able to draft and develop a QB going back to Elway (they didn't draft him remember?).

Elway might has well have been drafted by us. He never took a snap for any other team. 100 percent of his development was done in Denver...

[Cugel]

Elway might has well have been drafted by us. He never took a snap for any other team. 100 percent of his development was done in Denver...

Who cares? Elway was the like Andrew Luck, and obvious Hall of Fame candidate even before the draft. They were talking about him like that in 1983.

That was a long ass time ago now. The rest of that list counts too! And they were all failures of drafting and/or development.