The Safest Pick in the 2019 NFL Draft

[Ziggy]

https://athlonsports.com/sites/athlonsports.com/files/shared/college-football/SEC/LSU/DevinWhite_2017_325.jpg

Devin White- MLB 6'1 240


Here's my second installment of the Safest Player in the Draft. Last year it was Quenton Nelson. This year it's a player I believe the Broncos target if they solve the QB situation via trade or free agency. Devin White is the best off the ball linebacker prospect to come out since Patrick Willis. He has that rare combination of football IQ, leadership, speed, instincts, power, and heart. Remember when Elway was asked about prospects in the 2011 draft? When they asked him about Von Miller he said that when you watch the tape of any game that he's in and one guy keeps flashing. He said that you could pick him out without seeing his number. After the draft he said that Von was one of those guys that come around once every ten years. Devin White is that same kind of prospect.

When White was going into his senior season in high school, he ran a 4.49 40. That was laser timed at Nike's The Opening, a camp for top-flight recruits. He weighed 258 at the time. He's now listed at 240, so don't be surprised if he runs in the 4.4 range at the combine. His dream was to be a college running back, but with Leonard Fournette, Darrell Williams, and Darius Guice locked into the RB spots, he was switched to LBer. White became the leader and QB of the defense. I'll post a good article on his teammate talking about his film study habits and diagnosing plays pre-snap. His work ethic is Peyton Manning-esque.

White isn't just a fast guy in shorts. He has some eye popping game speed. He hits like sledge hammer and closes like a corner. He graded out in the 90's in coverage, and is a solid blitzer. Here's some highlights.


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[Ziggy]

SPRINGHILL -- LSU sophomore linebacker Devin White's ascension this season as one of the top defenders in the SEC can be traced to where it all began, this rural town with a population of less than 6,000. Between the end of the 2016 regular season and LSU's appearance in the Citrus Bowl on New Years' Eve, players had time off. White took his opportunity to return to his hometown, tucked in the northwest corner of Louisiana and bordering Arkansas. White spent time with family and his former peewee coach and longtime mentor Shaun Houston. Houston recalled the two sitting in his living room as White gave a scouting report on LSU's bowl opponent -- Louisville and Heisman Trophy-winning quarterback Lamar Jackson. White told Houston he almost wished LSU was playing Florida State and shifty running back Dalvin Cook. Why?

"It's easier to tackle a running back than it is to tackle a dual-threat quarterback," Houston said of White's assessment. Houston reminded White, who wasn't yet starting for LSU, that he was prepared for the moment -- no matter the opponent. On White's first play with 4:54 remaining in the first quarter, he blitzed by Louisville's right guard and into the backfield. White charged at Jackson, who attempted to give him a Heisman-like stiff-arm and backpedaled. It didn't work. White corralled Jackson for a 19-yard loss and his first career sack. White took a rare moment of doubt and turned it in his favor, a sign of things to come for LSU's young linebacker.


BORN LEADER
White has led LSU in tackles in five of its six games, including 13 in last week's win at Florida after which he was named the co-SEC Defensive Player of the week.
More impressive, he is the defensive player-rich SEC's leading tackler with 62 stops, 12 more than the next closet defender. White attributes his fast start to his many conversations with LSU defensive coordinator Dave Aranda and head coach Ed Orgeron. "I feel like I'm prepared for this," White said. "I watch a lot of film with Coach Aranda. I talk with Coach O, because he's been at a lot of different programs. So I feel like a pro."

Despite being in only his second season and a first-time starter, White has morphed into a leadership role on the defense that isn't easily measured by statistics. He barks out signals during games, gets teammates properly aligned and serves as a positive voice during trying times, heady work for an underclassman. White, frustrated by LSU's loss to non-conference foe Troy earlier this season, even called out his teammates for a lack of preparation. LSU junior cornerback Donte Jackson said White has a "top two or three" football IQ among the Tigers' defenders and even compared him to Aranda. "His mental is way up; his football IQ is way up," Jackson said. "He's like a second Aranda on the field, kind of like how Duke (Riley) was last year. Duke (now with the Atlanta Falcons) knew every play. He knew what the offense was going to run before they ran it. That's how Devin is this year. "He takes a lot of positives from film. He'll come to me on a Monday, five days before the game and tell me everything about the team we're playing on Saturday. That just shows me as the captain of the defensive backs, that shows me I can trust him."

April Thomas, White's guidance counselor at North Webster, said White always possessed leadership skills. When White would walk by the school office and see teammates in trouble or making up work, he'd always offer support. "I think it was his upbringing," Thomas said. "His home life, his mom and his grandma and his family support him. They're a very supportive family, especially his mom. She's going to demand that discipline. He's going to have to stay focused, but not only that but you have to be respectful. Because if you want respect, you have to give respect. He's learned it that way."

It was the beginnings of the leadership White has shown in Baton Rouge. "He's always been a leader," Coesha White-Standokes, White's mother, said. "He's always been bigger. Even though he's younger than a lot of other people, he was always bigger so he always kind of took charge at some point."

'IT' FACTOR
White's success doesn't surprise Houston. He remembered the first time he saw White's prowess on the practice field as the 10-year-old's peewee coach. After watching White deliver a bone-jarring hit during tackling drills, Houston walked over to White-Standokes, who was standing along the fence. "I told her, 'Coesha, if this kid keeps his head on straight, he's going to write his own ticket to whatever university he wants,'" Houston said sitting his office at Webster Junior High in Minden, where he's the assistant principal. "You know special when you see it. Especially if you're someone that's been around the sport a long time. You know when someone has 'it.' And he did."

Doris White, Devin's grandmother, said as soon as she saw him on the field with Houston's peewee program, she too knew her grandson was going to be special. "They always played the league ball, but once I seen Coach Shaun convince him to get in there and he started playing, I already knew," Doris White said. "It was a done deal. When you got a mentor that sees something in a child, even before he knows, then you already know he's going to be something special."

White stood out in more ways than one as a youngster. At 5 feet 10 and 165 pounds, he towered above his peers. White-Standokes remembered having to bring Devin's birth certificate to games to prove to the parents of opposing teams her son was indeed eligible to play in the peewee league. White was well aware of his physical gifts, which at first limited his play. "When he played peewee with Shaun, he got in the habit of not tackling as hard as he was because he was so much bigger and parents would say things," White-Standokes said. "So he got to where he would just push." White eventually grew out of just pushing opponents and used his skill set to tackle and mow them over.

ON THE FAST TRACK
By the time he arrived at North Webster High School, White showed that he could make an impact on both sides of the ball. He started every game in which he played, according to Knights coach John Ware. "He came walking by and someone said, 'That's that kid,'" Ware said. "I hadn't heard about him. They said that's Devin White, he's supposed to be pretty good. I said 'Him?' because he looked like a grown man in the ninth grade. For me, as a coach, that was the hard thing. You don't see people like that very often. He had a lot of natural ability to begin with. You looked at him like a grown man, but he was still a kid at that time."

A year later, White was garnering attention from colleges across the country. After he ran a 4.47-second 40-yard dash at LSU's camp the summer before his sophomore season, he got a scholarship offer from the Tigers. Six weeks later, Alabama came calling. The attention was warranted. White rushed for 5,815 yards and 85 touchdowns in high school -- including 2,287 yards and 30 touchdowns as a junior. He also had a pair of 90-plus tackle seasons, 99 as a sophomore and 93 as a junior.

https://www.nola.com/lsu/index.ssf/2017/10/how_devin_white_became_a_leade.html

[Ziggy]

White's instincts on defense, however, stood out most to Ware. "He had the ability to make plays where there wasn't a play there to be made," Ware said. "That's when you know somebody is special. I've had a ton of them that had great instincts along the way. But (White was) someone that was always in the right spot, and you wonder how he gets there.
"He intercepted a ball in the semifinals at Amite (in 2015) and it was one of those ones where you've had a player in that spot 1,000 times, but Devin makes the play. That's what separated him, especially on the linebacker side. He reminded me in high school of (ex-LSU standout and Arizona Cardinals defensive back) Tyrann Mathieu. He just always seemed to be in the right spot." North Webster linebackers coach Johnny Brown, who doubles as the Knights' track coach, said White had the best instincts he'd ever seen. "He had a nose for the football," Brown said. "It was like having a coach on the field. He could see it before it happened."

To go along with those instincts, White possessed elite speed for his size and position. Heading into his senior season at 258 pounds, White ran a 4.49 40 timed with a laser at Nike's The Opening, a camp for top-flight recruits. He also showed off his speed -- his grandmother says that comes from his mom -- on the track, running a 10.68 100 meters in high school.
Nowadays White is listed at 6-1, 240 pounds on LSU's roster, which likely means he's even quicker to the ball. "It's unbelievable," Brown said. "He can actually misread a play and then he can recover because of his speed. You usually don't see big guys like him with the speed that he has. That makes a huge difference." Ware said White's athleticism has translated to the football field. "Some people can run, and some people can run with pads on," Ware said. "He's one of those people. He's special. You don't see somebody with a burst like that. You see people with a burst like that on a track or without pads or out there playing around. He had a natural burst with pads on that he ran as fast or faster than he did without the pads on."


PUTTING IN WORK
White's mother and grandmother haven't missed an LSU game in which White has played. Sometimes they'll make the four-hour drive back to Springhill after games. When they opt to stay in Baton Rouge, White will visit -- but only for a spell. On Sunday mornings, he's got film to study. "He knows that's a part of the game," White-Standokes said. "He knows he has to study and look at film to get better. We'll go spend the night sometimes and he'll leave and say he has to go study film. We're there, but it's just a part of preparation for him.
"He knows in order to be a leader, he has to do his job and to be the linebacker, middle linebacker, quarterback of the defense, he has to know what's going on."

Getting into the LSU football operations building early has been White's routine. He usually arrives about 8 a.m. on Sundays, an hour or two before even Aranda enters the building.
White said he'll get in film time on his own then watches more tape with Aranda. Orgeron said the extra work has paid off for White. That and White's speed, of course. "I think one of Devin's biggest things is keying and recognition, understanding his formation and plays," Orgeron said. "Although he's not perfect, there's been some times that he's missed some fits, but his ability to maybe take the wrong step or take the wrong key, but he has speed. "And when he gets there, he's so physical that he's becoming a good linebacker for us."

Being a linebacker at LSU wasn't always the plan. In fact, when White signed, he was announced as a running back. Before spring practice in 2016, Aranda went to then-coach Les Miles and lobbied to have White moved to defense. White, hesitant at first, turned to his former peewee coach for advice. "It was a tough decision for him, and I was just sitting there laughing at him," Houston said as he thought about LSU's crowded backfield. "I was like, 'Dude, it's a no-brainer.'" There are only so many carries to go around, and White's running back brethren at the time included rising juniors Leonard Fournette and Darrel Williams and rising sophomores Derrius Guice and Nick Brossette. "The thing was when I came here, I knew who was in front of me and what to expect," White said. "I just wanted to play for LSU, so I really didn't care. We had Coach Aranda and he asked Coach Miles, 'I could use this guy.' Coach Miles brought me in after me already asking him could I get on special teams because I wanted to play. I didn't want to redshirt or none of that, I wanted to contribute."
Houston, who was with White when it all began, knew his prized pupil would blossom at linebacker.

https://www.nola.com/lsu/index.ssf/2017/10/how_devin_white_became_a_leade.html

[Elevation inc]

The dude is a beast.....I would be a very happy man if he ended up in Denver with our 10th pick. Right now I have him slated to go to the Jets or Detroit(most likely), but we have a shot. There is elite defensive talent to be had at 10, if we decide wont don't want a Qb there at 10.

[Jsteve01]

Really want it to be White but if not him then there are so many excellent value defensive playerd in this draft

[Northman]

Im totally on board with White.

[MOtorboat]

I was watching some Roquan Smith last night ... Devin White is tailor made for this defense.

[Elevation inc]

Personally if We don't draft a QB at 10 and can get a player like white or even the top CB, I would be pretty happy. I think we are set to get a very good player regardless at 10....Lots of good talent at positions we could use improvement at especially CB, ILB, and the DL.

[Nomad]

I'm gonna miss watching White play for the Tigers, but I'd be happy af if the Broncos landed him. Like Inc, I have a feeling he'll land in Detroit. Blah.

[CoachChaz]

One of White or Murphy should surely be there.

[Poet]

It would be a great pick; I wouldn't complain.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I'm down

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I would love White, if we already had a QB. I’m still hoping we can pry CJ Mosley away from Baltimore in FA and draft a QB in the 1st round.

[Nomad]

Being the Broncos have the QB whisperer as OC, would you guys accept if the Broncos choose not to take a QB at #10? He does know QBs, and if none are to his liking, then what?

[Shazam!]

Being the Broncos have the QB whisperer as OC, would you guys accept if the Broncos choose not to take a QB at #10? He does know QBs, and if none are to his liking, then what?

Rypien or Grier at 2nd or 3rd would plz me greatly but i doubt they'll be available

Qb is their most pressing need.

Drew Lock baby

[Poet]

It took Lock awhile to become a 60% passer, but he had a really nice year.

I would welcome the pick.

[Nomad]

It took Lock awhile to become a 60% passer, but he had a really nice year.

I would welcome the pick.

Would you welcome Blane Gabbert?

[Poet]

Being the Broncos have the QB whisperer as OC, would you guys accept if the Broncos choose not to take a QB at #10? He does know QBs, and if none are to his liking, then what?

I'd accept it. I'd have to. I just would be irked if we did this not because of getting a great talent/willingness to trade up for one next year, but because we really do still like CK.

I doubt a Keenum commitment is present, though.

If we drafted a flat out top elite stud, that'd be awesome. But if we flub the pick I'd be sad as ****.

[Nomad]

I'd accept it. I'd have to. I just would be irked if we did this not because of getting a great talent/willingness to trade up for one next year, but because we really do still like CK.

I doubt a Keenum commitment is present, though.

If we drafted a flat out top elite stud, that'd be awesome. But if we flub the pick I'd be sad as ****.

Elway has already stated Keenum is not the answer.

[Poet]

Elway has already stated Keenum is not the answer.

This is true - but he still might be the QB next year.

IDK, Nomad. At this point I've screamed my lungs out about Keenum, QBs, etc.

Maybe we should build the most talented defense that we can, target guards, and run the ball 40 times a game. Try to go Baltimore Raven on that ass!

[Nomad]

This is true - but he still might be the QB next year.

IDK, Nomad. At this point I've screamed my lungs out about Keenum, QBs, etc.

Maybe we should build the most talented defense that we can, target guards, and run the ball 40 times a game. Try to go Baltimore Raven on that ass!

I see we need a QB, but I don't see any of these QBs worth over a player like White. But, since the Broncos does have the QB whisperer on the team, I'll accept if they feel one of these QBs will be the Broncos QBOTF, and take the Broncos back to championship level.

[Ziggy]

Rypien or Grier at 2nd or 3rd would plz me greatly but i doubt they'll be available

Qb is their most pressing need.

Drew Lock baby

Unless Grier has some character flaws, or an attitude issue I think he goes in the first.

[Poet]

I see we need a QB, but I don't see any of these QBs worth over a player like White. But, since the Broncos does have the QB whisperer on the team, I'll accept if they feel one of these QBs will be the Broncos QBOTF, and take the Broncos back to championship level.

I think you would fall in love with Haskins, Nomad. I really do.

But I'd love to have White, too. It'd be great for this defense to finally have someone like Bowman, Willis, etc. Kuechly,, Wager, etc. Just a playmaking LB who can cover, tackle, make plays, and be dynamic.

[Nomad]

I think you would fall in love with Haskins, Nomad. I really do.

But I'd love to have White, too. It'd be great for this defense to finally have someone like Bowman, Willis, etc. Kuechly,, Wager, etc. Just a playmaking LB who can cover, tackle, make plays, and be dynamic.

I've watched Haskins. I'm not as enthused as you guys, but if he becomes a Bronco, I'd definitely want him to be the best.

[Poet]

I've watched Haskins. I'm not as enthused as you guys, but if he becomes a Bronco, I'd definitely want him to be the best.

Nomad is secretly #hankering4Haskins

[Nomad]

Nomad is secretly #hankering4Haskins

No......I'm a 'don't repeat 2006' kinda guy.

[Northman]

I see we need a QB, but I don't see any of these QBs worth over a player like White. But, since the Broncos does have the QB whisperer on the team, I'll accept if they feel one of these QBs will be the Broncos QBOTF, and take the Broncos back to championship level.

There are no QB's worth more than White in this draft. Doesnt mean that teams wont reach for them but White is better overall value.

[Poet]

No......I'm a 'don't repeat 2006' kinda guy.

I graduated high school that year!

[HORSEPOWER 56]

There are no QB's worth more than White in this draft. Doesnt mean that teams wont reach for them but White is better overall value.

I don’t think anyone can say that in this day and age. Seriously. Outside of pass rushers and CBs, there are almost no defensive positions worth a 1st round pick anymore. Everything favors the offense. You must have a QB in this day and age. List the MLBs from the 4 Championship teams without looking... you can’t. Even if you could if any of them missed the game would it matter that much? Everyone here can definitely name the QBs and envies those teams for having them.

[Nomad]

I don’t think anyone can say that in this day and age. Seriously. Outside of pass rushers and CBs, there are almost no defensive positions worth a 1st round pick anymore. Everything favors the offense. You must have a QB in this day and age. List the MLBs from the 4 Championship teams without looking... you can’t. Even if you could if any of them missed the game would it matter that much? Everyone here can definitely name the QBs and envies those teams for having them.

If you want to go there, then you don't need a first round QB to win championships.

[Northman]

I don’t think anyone can say that in this day and age. Seriously. Outside of pass rushers and CBs, there are almost no defensive positions worth a 1st round pick anymore. Everything favors the offense. You must have a QB in this day and age. List the MLBs from the 4 Championship teams without looking... you can’t. Even if you could if any of them missed the game would it matter that much? Everyone here can definitely name the QBs and envies those teams for having them.

Maybe for the most part, but i think White is the exception this year. He has a Luke Kuechly or Ray Lewis type of feel about him. I definitely think he is going to be better than any QB in this draft. My opinion of course.

[Poet]

I don’t think anyone can say that in this day and age. Seriously. Outside of pass rushers and CBs, there are almost no defensive positions worth a 1st round pick anymore. Everything favors the offense. You must have a QB in this day and age. List the MLBs from the 4 Championship teams without looking... you can’t. Even if you could if any of them missed the game would it matter that much? Everyone here can definitely name the QBs and envies those teams for having them.

I'm not sure I agree with this. I think we just saw an uptick in safeties being valued in the NFL over the past few years. And I think that DT/NT's will have some first round value as well.

I'm in agreement with you regarding the QB pick, though. If we look at a QB and see a real first round talent that we can get, we should. IMO. But...White is such an outlier freak that he is worth a first rounder. If a team could redraft Patrick Willis, he'd be a first rounder. White can have that type of impact, IMO.

[Nomad]

Back to the question.....what if the Broncos feel one of these first round QBs isn't the answer? We do have the QB whisperer.

[Northman]

Back to the question.....what if the Broncos feel one of these first round QBs isn't the answer? We do have the QB whisperer.

Im fine with passing on a QB in round one. I do think we will need to take one in the 2nd or 3rd but we will also be either making a play in FA or in next years draft.

[Poet]

Back to the question.....what if the Broncos feel one of these first round QBs isn't the answer? We do have the QB whisperer.

Then you're either using the QB whisperer to patch up CK for one more year, or someone you scoop up in a trade/FA. Not sure who we'd get there.

Or, as North pointed out, maybe we bag someone in the second or third round.

[Nomad]

Guys....we're talking 1st rd. One of these QBs over White. Broncos will draft a QB in this draft.

[turftoad]

I'm not sure I agree with this. I think we just saw an uptick in safeties being valued in the NFL over the past few years. And I think that DT/NT's will have some first round value as well.

I'm in agreement with you regarding the QB pick, though. If we look at a QB and see a real first round talent that we can get, we should. IMO. But...White is such an outlier freak that he is worth a first rounder. If a team could redraft Patrick Willis, he'd be a first rounder. White can have that type of impact, IMO.

Agreed. Draft defense heavy early, White in the first, a CB in the second then whatever looks good the rest of the way. CK for one more year.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

If you want to go there, then you don't need a first round QB to win championships.

True, but it’s much more likely than say, having a first round MLB and no QB. We won a Super Bowl with a 5th round pick (Trevathan) and UDFA (Marshall) at ILB.

[Poet]

Agreed. Draft defense heavy early, White in the first, a CB in the second then whatever looks good the rest of the way. CK for one more year.

I only want this is they really don't see a QB. Defense is overrated these days. But we might have to do it.

To get to Nomad - Lock had a nice year, he has a lot of talent, and a good showing in the draft process -combine, pro day, that game where they pit the top prospects on each side - could get him there.

If Haskins is there, or if they don't want him, Murray is enticing. Jones is another guy a lot of people are high on.

I won't lie, just the prospect of knowing CK isn't the starter with a rookie QB (at least at some point in time) makes me irrationally want to draft a guy.

[Northman]

True, but it’s much more likely than say, having a first round MLB and no QB. We won a Super Bowl with a 5th round pick (Trevathan) and UDFA (Marshall) at ILB.

But we also had a huge playmaker in Von. Imagine having a MLB with the same kind of impact.

[Poet]

True, but it’s much more likely than say, having a first round MLB and no QB. We won a Super Bowl with a 5th round pick (Trevathan) and UDFA (Marshall) at ILB.

Trevathan was then paid a lot of money and is doing a great job in Chicago. On a redraft, he's probably a first round player.

This draft we will have more viable options on the pick than last time.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

The way I see it is this, the Broncos will absolutely not be drafting top 10 next year. VJ is gone and Fangio will improve this team. It’s almost a stone cold lead pipe lock. Even though the QB class next year looks better (right now) than this year, there’s little chance we’ll have a shot at any of them. Fromm, Tua, Herbert... yeah right. If we even do, we’ll have to mortgage a whole draft to move up on that risk.

Devin White looks like a great player, but he’s not a generational talent. He’s not Patrick Willis or he’d be mocked to go in the top 5 or 6. He’s not. The earliest I’ve seen him projected is actually to Denver at #10. Most mocks have him later. Just like Nelson last year, he’s a sexy pick, but the value isn’t as high any more.

Sure, Safeties are coming back in vogue right now but that’s to cover TEs. Nobody gives a shit about box Safeties anymore. Maybe Devin White is the next Patrick Willis, but maybe he’s not.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Trevathan was then paid a lot of money and is doing a great job in Chicago. On a redraft, he's probably a first round player.

This draft we will have more viable options on the pick than last time.


You can’t say that. You can’t just look back at any productive player and say, “probably a first round player”. Then every starter in the league would fit that description. That’s silly, dude.

[Poet]

The way I see it is this, the Broncos will absolutely not be drafting top 10 next year. VJ is gone and Fangio will improve this team. It’s almost a stone cold lead pipe lock. Even though the QB class next year looks better (right now) than this year, there’s little chance we’ll have a shot at any of them. From, Tua, Herbert... yeah right. If we even do, we’ll have to mortgage a whole draft to move up on that risk.

Devin White looks like a great player, but he’s not a generational talent. He’s not Patrick Willis or he’d be mocked to go in the top 5 or 6. He’s not. The earliest I’ve seen him projected is actually to Denver at #10. Most mocks have him later. Just like Nelson last year, he’s a sexy pick, but the value isn’t as high any more.

Sure, Safeties are coming back in vogue right now but that’s to cover TEs. Nobody gives a shit about box Safeties anymore. Maybe Devin White is the next Patrick Willis, but maybe he’s not.

Derwin James covered TEs, did some deep ball coverage, blitzed the QB, run blitzed, etc. Safeties right now are becoming in vogue again because out of that position on defense, arguably more than any else, you can have them be dynamic. That's all I was saying. Or trying to say.

White looks like he could be a Kuechly level player. That guy is one of the best players in the league. This isn't another nice ILB prospect, right? This guy looks like an elite ILB prospect.

Regarding the QB's, we might have to trade up now to get a guy. The Cardinals were in a similar draft spot and they moved up. The Bills moved up, too. My issue isn't moving up as the Eagles, Texans, Rams, Jets, and even the Bears don't seem to be regretting their decision to move up. It's if we CAN move up. This year a lot of teams in front of us don't need a QB, so we might be safe unless teams behind us start making trade. But next year's crop of QB's (I think Lawrence has to play two more seasons?) might be 'so good' that teams won't budge on their picks.

I want to give you a shoutout for noting that next season's crop looks better now. Two drafts ago people loved the class and then all of a sudden Mayfield, Darnold, Allen, Rosen et al couldn't play and no one liked them anymore. It's all subjective and speculative.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Maybe for the most part, but i think White is the exception this year. He has a Luke Kuechly or Ray Lewis type of feel about him. I definitely think he is going to be better than any QB in this draft. My opinion of course.


I don’t see it. I saw a great player on a good defense. He’s an excellent chase and tackle guy, but that assumes he’s untouched to the ball carrier. All of his highlights have him untouched (no block to shed) when he gets his big stops. I’m not trying to tear the guy down, but he’s not Roquan Smith or Patrick Willis. I watched most LSU games this year and he’s not. I think the team that drafts him thinking that’s what he is, will be disappointed.

[Poet]

Ray Lewis needed a DL to let him be a monster. There's that famous clip of him blowing up on the sideline going "they're doubling me," against KC when the Chiefs weren't.

He's a coverage guy, too. He doesn't need the DL for that. IDK man - I want a QB probably more than just about anyone, but I couldn't complain if we didn't go QB.

Jones is an interesting QB prospect.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Ray Lewis needed a DL to let him be a monster. There's that famous clip of him blowing up on the sideline going "they're doubling me," against KC when the Chiefs weren't.

He's a coverage guy, too. He doesn't need the DL for that. IDK man - I want a QB probably more than just about anyone, but I couldn't complain if we didn't go QB.

Jones is an interesting QB prospect.

Look, I have no doubt that White is worth a first round pick, and potentially could be great in Fangio’s defense. White should be the pick if there’s no QB. I completely feel that way. I just have a problem potentially taking him over guys like Murray, Jones, Lock, etc (I’m guessing Haskins will go first off the board at this point) while we continue next year to watch our defense make stops and our offense to struggle under Keenum to score 17 points a game because he ******* sucks.

It’s no secret that if you don’t have a franchise QB, you need to find one. I think this year might be our shot because it’s unlikely that 4 QBs come off the board in the top 10.

[Poet]

Look, I have no doubt that White is worth a first round pick, and potentially could be great in Fangio’s defense. White should be the pick if there’s no QB. I completely feel that way. I just have a problem potentially taking him over guys like Murray, Jones, Lock, etc (I’m guessing Haskins will go first off the board at this point) while we continue next year to watch our defense make stops and our offense to struggle under Keenum to score 17 points a game because he ******* sucks.

It’s no secret that if you don’t have a franchise QB, you need to find one. I think this year might be our shot because it’s unlikely that 4 QBs come off the board in the top 10.

First sentence I agree. Second sentence I agree, albeit there could be that stud DT and Greedy Williams. We are on the same wavelength.

I want a QB over defense, if the QB checks out. Right now, If we could get Haskins, I'd be ecstatic. If we could get Murray, even if it was in the first, I'd be ecstatic.

I never want to see Keenum throw a pass as a Bronco again. I think I hate him so much my life expectancy has been shortened. :lol:

[Nomad]

Weren't you a Cutler advocate, HP?

[Northman]

Weren't you a Cutler advocate, HP?

Cutler did have talent, just not much upstairs.

With all that said I just dont see Murray, Haskins, or Jones being worth first round picks despite that being where they are slated to go. Or at the very least better than some of the other QB's in this draft class. We can argue all day that we need a QBTF but none of the QB's in this draft are generational guys. I would even venture to say i think a couple of them are system guys and not much more. I just would rather get a player who i know will contribute right away this team and has a higher chance of making a difference earlier rather than later. Denver can always trade up next year if need be. This just isnt the year to do it in my opinion. Yes, i think Murray and Haskins will suck at the pro level. But again, my opinion.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Weren't you a Cutler advocate, HP?

Over Plummer? Absolutely. He actually played pretty well in Denver for his time here. I think Shanny was actually good for him and could keep his douchyness and attitude in check. Physical talent wise he was light years better than Plummer.

I’m just completely fed up watching Von and Chris Harris’ talents be completely wasted on QBs like Keenum, Siemian, Lynch, etc. We don’t have even a decent QB on this roster. It’s that sad. No starter and nobody behind him to develop. Like it or not, LSU fan or not, we must address the QB position early and often THIS YEAR. Wasting another year not even developing a QBOTF puts this team back another 2 years. Taking flyers on later round picks gets you guys like Osweiler and Siemian. Find your QB and pick him. Stop being distracted by shiny objects that look neat on paper but aren’t directly essential in winning in today’s NFL.

[Nomad]

I'm just glad you're not our GM.

[Northman]

I'm just glad you're not our GM.

Thats not really fair to HP there. He has some valid points about the organization the last 4-5 years and their desire to take projects at the most important position on the team. Where he is a bit misguided (my opinion) is the belief that the QB's in this class are definite franchise guys. None of them are in the category unfortunately. I think you and i can agree Devin White isnt a project and will immediately make an impact whereas that isnt certain with Murray, Haskins, and such. Denver needs a QB no doubt, but it doesnt mean we have to keep being stupid about it when we go to pick one. If the QB isnt there, dont reach and waste the pick. The reality is the QBOTF for us may not even be in this draft which i dont think it is.

[Nomad]

Thats not really fair to HP there. He has some valid points about the organization the last 4-5 years and their desire to take projects at the most important position on the team. Where he is a bit misguided (my opinion) is the belief that the QB's in this class are definite franchise guys. None of them are in the category unfortunately. I think you and i can agree Devin White isnt a project and will immediately make an impact whereas that isnt certain with Murray, Haskins, and such. Denver needs a QB no doubt, but it doesnt mean we have to keep being stupid about it when we go to pick one. If the QB isnt there, dont reach and waste the pick. The reality is the QBOTF for us may not even be in this draft which i dont think it is.

You make my point. Reaching for a QB, when the elite defensive talent is there, is not a smart move.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I'm just glad you're not our GM.

So you’re cool if White is on still on the the board taking say, a CB not named Greedy Williams or maybe another DL because he slid a little? I think you’re on the White train just as much because you’re an LSU fan as because you think he’d be an impact player for the Broncos. The bottom line is, until you have a QB, NOTHING and I mean NOTHING else matters. NTL showed the graphic. With the exception of 1 Flacco anomaly, every AFC SB QB was Manning, Brady, or Roethlisberger. It’s that important. Everyone says the defense won the Super Bowl in 2015. Hard to argue that, but tell me if you think we still get there had we not gone back to Manning in week 17. You think Osweiler would’ve taken us to the Super Bowl, even with that defense?

It’s all about the QB. We must get one somehow. Trade up, trade down, whatever it takes.

[Nomad]

We have Fangio......a defensive genius like Wade.

[Northman]

So you’re cool if White is on still on the the board taking say, a CB not named Greedy Williams or maybe another DL because he slid a little? I think you’re on the White train just as much because you’re an LSU fan as because you think he’d be an impact player for the Broncos. The bottom line is, until you have a QB, NOTHING and I mean NOTHING else matters. NTL showed the graphic. With the exception of 1 Flacco anomaly, every AFC SB QB was Manning, Brady, or Roethlisberger. It’s that important. Everyone says the defense won the Super Bowl in 2015. Hard to argue that, but tell me if you think we still get there had we not gone back to Manning in week 17. You think Osweiler would’ve taken us to the Super Bowl, even with that defense?

It’s all about the QB. We must get one somehow. Trade up, trade down, whatever it takes.

The only problem is i dont see a Brady, Elway, Manning, etc in this draft so why waste a draft pick?

[HORSEPOWER 56]

We have Fangio......a defensive genius like Wade.

Yep, and we still don’t have a QB. He just fielded the #1 defense in the NFL and they got bounced in the wildcard round by a 9-7 team because their offense couldn’t score over 16 points...

[Nomad]

So you’re cool if White is on still on the the board taking say, a CB not named Greedy Williams or maybe another DL because he slid a little? I think you’re on the White train just as much because you’re an LSU fan as because you think he’d be an impact player for the Broncos. The bottom line is, until you have a QB, NOTHING and I mean NOTHING else matters. NTL showed the graphic. With the exception of 1 Flacco anomaly, every AFC SB QB was Manning, Brady, or Roethlisberger. It’s that important. Everyone says the defense won the Super Bowl in 2015. Hard to argue that, but tell me if you think we still get there had we not gone back to Manning in week 17. You think Osweiler would’ve taken us to the Super Bowl, even with that defense?

It’s all about the QB. We must get one somehow. Trade up, trade down, whatever it takes.


I do love White, but I do know he is better than any QB in this draft. Being desperate won't get you quality.....like CoachChaz.....even Murphy from UW has more quality at his position than these QBs. Then again.....we have Scangarello.

[Nomad]

Yep, and we still don’t have a QB. He just fielded the #1 defense in the NFL and they got bounced in the wildcard round to a 9-7 team because their offense couldn’t score over 16 points...

Yet...Andrew Luck & Phillip Rivers are sitting on the couch. It's only 5:30 here, I can go on. I get you're desperate.

[Poet]

Yet...Andrew Luck & Phillip Rivers are sitting on the couch. It's only 5:30 here, I can go on. I get you're desperate.

Mahomes and Goff are the two brightest young QB stars in the game. They're playing tomorrow. Brees and Brady represent how getting the right QB can mean having a shot for a long, long time.

The QB whisperer might be able to get more out of some of these prospects that are a little iffy. Coaching is everything. Mahomes with Reid is godly. Not sure I'd bet on Mahomes being a bust if he had Hue Jackson, but I do know Mahomes wouldn't be the QB he is right now were Jackson his 'guy'.

Do you believe in the QB whisperer?

[Nomad]

Mahomes and Goff are the two brightest young QB stars in the game. They're playing tomorrow. Brees and Brady represent how getting the right QB can mean having a shot for a long, long time.

The QB whisperer might be able to get more out of some of these prospects that are a little iffy. Coaching is everything. Mahomes with Reid is godly. Not sure I'd bet on Mahomes being a bust if he had Hue Jackson, but I do know Mahomes wouldn't be the QB he is right now were Jackson his 'guy'.

Do you believe in the QB whisperer?

Ive termed the QB whisperer. I've already stated if they feel one of these reaches at QB are worthy of 10, then I'll accept. Last time the Broncos reached, they missed on an all pro NT.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I think the bottom line here is, we’ve missed the playoffs for 3 straight years and that’s not because of our defense. That wouldn’t have happened with a starting caliber QB. Adding White won’t change that. The offense, in particular the passing game, is our Achilles heel.

[Nomad]

I think the bottom line here is, we’ve missed the playoffs for 3 straight years and that’s not because of our defense. That wouldn’t have happened with a starting caliber QB. Adding White won’t change that. The offense, in particular the passing game, is our Achilles heel.

Why not get Flacco, then? He has shown competence. He also had Ray Lewis, and a damn fine defense.

[Northman]

I think the bottom line here is, we’ve missed the playoffs for 3 straight years and that’s not because of our defense. That wouldn’t have happened with a starting caliber QB. Adding White won’t change that. The offense, in particular the passing game, is our Achilles heel.

Then Denver should probably just draft White and either trade or pickup a playoff QB in FA. A rookie QB isnt going to change anything next year either to be honest.

[Nomad]

Then Denver should probably just draft White and either trade or pickup a playoff QB in FA. A rookie QB isnt going to change anything next year either to be honest.

Mahommes & Goff weren't day 1 starters.

[Nomad]

I get that the Broncos are desperate for a QB. It doesn't take a genius to know this. I don't love White because he was a Tiger, but I do love White because I know he is a great MLB and a position the Broncos have been lacking. Murphy or Williams would be an excellent addition to Harris. Hell.....there are some fine offensive lineman, too. I'm warming up to the Duke QB, but it's luke warm. I see a big reach for the kid from Missouri. Haskin has to find the right team to succeed, other than that, his flaws will show in the NFL.

[Poet]

Then Denver should probably just draft White and either trade or pickup a playoff QB in FA. A rookie QB isnt going to change anything next year either to be honest.

You just speed up the process by running that young QB out there. This isn't a contending team - I'm scared Elway thinks it is. Maybe someone like Foles can get us into a WC contention. But we'd still be the third best team in the division.

Nomad - regarding Goff and Mahomes - Goff started in his rookie year. Mahomes sat behind Smith, and that was great for him to learn and great for the Chiefs as they had a playoff berth.

I'm in the middle - I'd be fine with sitting a rook behind Keenum if we want to try for the playoffs, and if we're out of it, then run him out there.

[Northman]

It should be noted though that Jone's pass efficiency is actually much worse than Lock's so i dont totally understand the love affair with Jones as much as people do.

[Poet]

It should be noted though that Jone's pass efficiency is actually much worse than Lock's so i dont totally understand the love affair with Jones as much as people do.

It's the Cutliffe connection, imo.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Then Denver should probably just draft White and either trade or pickup a playoff QB in FA. A rookie QB isnt going to change anything next year either to be honest.

That’s a given. Draft a guy, let him learn for a year (preferably on the field). Then maybe, just maybe, he’ll be the long term guy next year. Or stay with Keenum, go 8-8 or 9-7, draft around 20 or so, don’t develop anyone, and start all over in 2020 with your QB search. We might have a pro bowl MLB, though.

[Nomad]

Sad thing is....White will probably be in Detroit.

[Northman]

You just speed up the process by running that young QB out there. This isn't a contending team - I'm scared Elway thinks it is. Maybe someone like Foles can get us into a WC contention. But we'd still be the third best team in the division.

Nomad - regarding Goff and Mahomes - Goff started in his rookie year. Mahomes sat behind Smith, and that was great for him to learn and great for the Chiefs as they had a playoff berth.

I'm in the middle - I'd be fine with sitting a rook behind Keenum if we want to try for the playoffs, and if we're out of it, then run him out there.

The issue here is that Goff is better than any prospect coming into this year's draft. Mahomes was a player that no one saw coming so i chalk him up there with guys like Wilson and Brady in terms of rarity. Chiefs got lucky but that doesnt mean Denver will. Yes, i think Denver will need to take a QB this year in the draft but i dont see any in the first round that are better than someone in later rounds. There just isnt that much separation in my opinion. BUT, White is the best at his particular position in this draft and a much much better prospect. As the thread title suggests you have to think about the safest pick in the first round. Doesnt mean Denver will draft White and may very well do QB but i wouldnt count on the rookie starting from day 1, and he certainly wont take Denver to the playoffs year one either. People are putting way to much stock in Fangio right now. Sure, we should do better than last year but there will still be some growing pains with a brand new HC.

[Nomad]

Goff took over for Keenum. LoL.

[Northman]

That’s a given. Draft a guy, let him learn for a year (preferably on the field). Then maybe, just maybe, he’ll be the long term guy next year. Or stay with Keenum, go 8-8 or 9-7, draft around 20 or so, don’t develop anyone, and start all over in 2020 with your QB search. We might have a pro bowl MLB, though.

I dont think here is a "might" with White. To that we just disagree, he is the best at his position coming into this draft. Im not even a LSU guy but saw some of his games and the dude is a beast bar none. You are assuming that even if Denver drafts a QB that he will take the starting job from Keenum, that simply wont happen because of Keenum's experience. Elway still considers this team a playoff caliber team and will not sacrifice the season behind a rookie. Just wont happen.

[Nomad]

That’s a given. Draft a guy, let him learn for a year (preferably on the field). Then maybe, just maybe, he’ll be the long term guy next year. Or stay with Keenum, go 8-8 or 9-7, draft around 20 or so, don’t develop anyone, and start all over in 2020 with your QB search. We might have a pro bowl MLB, though.

Elway loves Herbert, so you never know.

[Poet]

The issue here is that Goff is better than any prospect coming into this year's draft. Mahomes was a player that no one saw coming so i chalk him up there with guys like Wilson and Brady in terms of rarity. Chiefs got lucky but that doesnt mean Denver will. Yes, i think Denver will need to take a QB this year in the draft but i dont see any in the first round that are better than someone in later rounds. There just isnt that much separation in my opinion. BUT, White is the best at his particular position in this draft and a much much better prospect. As the thread title suggests you have to think about the safest pick in the first round. Doesnt mean Denver will draft White and may very well do QB but i wouldnt count on the rookie starting from day 1, and he certainly wont take Denver to the playoffs year one either. People are putting way to much stock in Fangio right now. Sure, we should do better than last year but there will still be some growing pains with a brand new HC.

A lot of people were really down on Goff and didn't think he was a top prospect. A lot of people were down on Mahomes and thought was going to be a bust or a long term project. A lot of people hated Wentz as a prospect. Some scouts didn't like Darnold.

I guess at a certain point I just see a first round QB talent wise as a first round QB. Guys who are so raw like Lynch will still be overdrafted, as was Bortles, but at the end of the day I didn't see what the massive disqualifying flaws were in last year's camp, and thus far (I reserve the right to change my mind as we get more information on the QB's) I don't see why some of these guys aren't legitimate.

It really comes down to if the guy has the talent, will he work hard, and can you coach him up? We know these guys have talent, and since we took PL even though we had concerns about his work ethic we should have learned. If we don't have the right coaches still, then we need an entire overhaul anyway, which is another rebuild no matter what.

However, as long as we get a blue chip prospect in the QB's stead, then I'm fine.

[Northman]

Elway loves Herbert, so you never know.

Which is why i think if Denver doesnt take a QB this year that they may give up some firsts for Herbert (if he likes him that much). Even if Denver falls back to 20 in the draft next year that wont mean Denver wont make a play to move up. The possibilities are endless.

[Poet]

I dont think here is a "might" with White. To that we just disagree, he is the best at his position coming into this draft. Im not even a LSU guy but saw some of his games and the dude is a beast bar none. You are assuming that even if Denver drafts a QB that he will take the starting job from Keenum, that simply wont happen because of Keenum's experience. Elway still considers this team a playoff caliber team and will not sacrifice the season behind a rookie. Just wont happen.

White is a bad, bad man.

[Poet]

Which is why i think if Denver doesnt take a QB this year that they may give up some firsts for Herbert (if he likes him that much). Even if Denver falls back to 20 in the draft next year that wont mean Denver wont make a play to move up. The possibilities are endless.

Here's the other part - if we don't go QB this year, and we don't move up for a top prospect next year, then it's all shit. But, if we can pull off a trade next year then it is okay. I'm just like you - I see the draft operating in conjunction with the rest of the franchise and the processes.

[Nomad]

Which is why i think if Denver doesnt take a QB this year that they may give up some firsts for Herbert (if he likes him that much). Even if Denver falls back to 20 in the draft next year that wont mean Denver wont make a play to move up. The possibilities are endless.

Reminds me of GNR...'Have a lttle Patience" :D

[Nomad]

I trust Elway.

[Northman]

Elway isnt perfect but its all going to come down to where Elway actually thinks we are. If we are rebuilding from the ground up, you take a QB and let Fangio build the team up for the next 3 years. If Elway thinks we are contenders than you give Fangio a guy like White while still trying to compete for a SB title. I have a feeling Elway still feels this team is still a contender.

[Poet]

I trust Elway.

Ehh...I trust logic. Sometimes he's clearly wrong, even if it takes awhile to play out. I will tell you this - it is almost an impossibility that two straight draft classes produce no worthy QB's. Especially when you factor in how QB friendly this league is.

[Poet]

Why not get Flacco, then? He has shown competence. He also had Ray Lewis, and a damn fine defense.

He's been bad as of late and never healthy. It also took him to play his best football during a contract year for him to go off. That fire is gone, or his body is unable to do that now. The Ravens drafted a QB in the first round and Flacco...threw 12 TDs, six picks, and then got hurt...again.

Flacco a handful of years ago might have been a solid option.

[Ziggy]

Give me White at 10, and Grier in the second round. Both problems solved.

[Poet]

I just saw a mock where White was taken at five.

I am getting depressed.

[Northman]

Give me White at 10, and Grier in the second round. Both problems solved.

I can live with that.

[Hawgdriver]

I see we need a QB, but I don't see any of these QBs worth over a player like White. But, since the Broncos does have the QB whisperer on the team, I'll accept if they feel one of these QBs will be the Broncos QBOTF, and take the Broncos back to championship level.

Same...

But without a QB you feel like your team is playing in the NFL B-league.

Hard to pass on White. I'd be fine if they took a shot at a QB next year or brought in a developmental prospect on some other roster for a draft pick.

Fangio took Smith/Kaepernick to the SB with Willis and Bowman. White is an excellent option if he's there.

[MOtorboat]

I just saw a mock where White was taken at five.

I am getting depressed.

He’s the type of prospect that could entice someone above Denver. He’s really good, and depending on his combine, he could get even higher. I think he’s that good.

That said, he’s so damn perfect for Fangio’s defense.

[dogfish]

Qb whining in every single thread. . . gonna be another long off-season. . .


zig, you think he's as good a prospect as kuechly?

[Ziggy]

Qb whining in every single thread. . . gonna be another long off-season. . .


zig, you think he's as good a prospect as kuechly?

Not quite. He takes a wrong step here and there and makes up for them with his athleticism. Kuechly never did that. I'd put his instincts just a notch below Kuechly. Everything else matches up though.

[TXBRONC]

Why not get Flacco, then? He has shown competence. He also had Ray Lewis, and a damn fine defense.

He his also 34 years old and has played that well since Kubiak was his offensive coordinator.

[OrangeHoof]

I concur that Devin White is the safest pick of this year's draft. #10 is traditionally higher than the top ILBs are taken however - see guys like Ray Lewis and Brian Urlacher for examples. If he's there, I still want Ed Oliver. We weren't aiming for Bradley Chubb last year either. I really believe that Oliver will be a matchup nightmare for individual OLs because of his quick first step. He's being undervalued right now because of his size and the knee injury that hampered him much of this year. Yet, he's going to be single-teamed as a pro, not double and triple teamed like he was in college. Teams can't double-team, Von, Chubb *and* Oliver. If Oliver is off the board, White or an elite corner are acceptable alternatives.

There's not a QB in this draft that is a plug-and-play Day 1 starter. The kid from Duke is closest but even he reminds me of Trubisky. Everyone still dumping on Keenum needs to understand there's a 90% chance he's going to be the starting QB on Opening Day and whomever we draft will start the year as the backup who won't be brought in until he's ready.

Everyone who preaches "best available athlete" as a drafting mantra CANNOT be choosing a QB at #10. Not even Haskins and Murray grade out that well.

[Ziggy]

Everyone who preaches "best available athlete" as a drafting mantra CANNOT be choosing a QB at #10. Not even Haskins and Murray grade out that well.

QB's always rise in value in the months leading up to the draft. Prior to the senior bowl last year, Mayfield was considered a mid first round pick at best. Don't be shocked if 5 QB's end up in the first round, with at least 3 going in the first 10 picks.

[Jsteve01]

Everyone who preaches "best available athlete" as a drafting mantra CANNOT be choosing a QB at #10. Not even Haskins and Murray grade out that well.

QB's always rise in value in the months leading up to the draft. Prior to the senior bowl last year, Mayfield was considered a mid first round pick at best. Don't be shocked if 5 QB's end up in the first round, with at least 3 going in the first 10 picks.

Thats why we cant reach.

[Elevation inc]

QB's always rise in value in the months leading up to the draft. Prior to the senior bowl last year, Mayfield was considered a mid first round pick at best. Don't be shocked if 5 QB's end up in the first round, with at least 3 going in the first 10 picks.

I agree Haskins is considered to have an elite NFL skill set that will require a bit of time, but he may go top 5. He is locked in to the top 10. Jones and Lock are doing well so far at the SB and already were considered first rd. locks. Both are going to be gone before pick 11 if they keep performing. One possibly to us. Murray is gaining traction as a mid rd. 1st rd. pick as teams are baiting bad teams into possibly taking him in hopes a guy they want falls....happens ever year. It wouldn't surprise me to see a team like Miami or Washington take Murray. Lots of GM's questioning his size and football commitment in circles at the Senior bowl though, while also talking him up lol. Grier is another name being talked about sneaking into rd 1. He did well in interviews at the SB, and his performance so far has kept him on track to go late 1st or early 2nd. Finely is currently considered to be ahead of Stidham in rd 2 at the SB.....lots of time still to go....But I would wager that in a Qb needy NFL....5 qb's in the first round is pretty damn accurate...

[Elevation inc]

Thats why we cant reach.

I really don't think Haskins or Lock in the top 10 is a reach, Jones would be to me but I could understand the move if someone did that. Murray, Grier, don't belong in rd. 1 but I'm pretty sure they are going to go in rd 1 regardless. Personally I want Haskins or Lock at QB and if not them a blue chip defensive player at CB, ILB, or DL, and then a QB in rd. 2 or 3.

[Poet]

Haskins isn't a talent reach. Murray is a talent reach. Lock might not be a talent reach. It's pretty early on to decide these guy's talent levels.

When factoring in if the team should take a guy this year, don't forget to include how likely another team is to trade spots with us if there's an elite QB prospect on the board. There seems to be an assumption that a top guy will be available to us next season.

[slim]

Haskins isn't a talent reach. Murray is a talent reach. Lock might not be a talent reach. It's pretty early on to decide these guy's talent levels.

When factoring in if the team should take a guy this year, don't forget to include how likely another team is to trade spots with us if there's an elite QB prospect on the board. There seems to be an assumption that a top guy will be available to us next season.

Why do you think Murray is a talent reach? That guy is scary good.

[Poet]

Why do you think Murray is a talent reach? That guy is scary good.

I like him but a lot of people think he's too small. If we took him at ten I wouldn't be upset, though. IDK. Maybe if his combine is that nutty I'll just say **** it, go get that young man

[Northman]

Murray is been slated as a 2nd rounder on some boards so i can see why taking him in the first would be a reach.

[CoachChaz]

For most prospects, a reach is defined by talent. In the case of Murray, it's based solely on his physical traits and how they'd hold up in the NFL. So, in his case, I think gamble is a better word to use than reach.

[Hawgdriver]

Murray is polarizing. I just want them to do their homework. The talent is there and some of the hesitation is unthinking kneejerk and brainless stereotyping without analytical justification. QB is the only position that moves Vegas odds. It's a critical position. My only fear is that our staff takes a whiff and finds the prospect a non-starter because their bias springs from a conviction that took root in the 1980s and 90s.

Joe Montana weighed 205. There are several short QBs that are considered elite.

To me it comes down to how well he can mentally process...if he's got it, take him at 10. If he's a combine athletic specimen who doesn't wow in the interviews with what's above his shoulders, pass.

[MOtorboat]

For most prospects, a reach is defined by talent. In the case of Murray, it's based solely on his physical traits and how they'd hold up in the NFL. So, in his case, I think gamble is a better word to use than reach.

And he has another option for a career. It’s a gamble in several ways.

[CoachChaz]

And he has another option for a career. It’s a gamble in several ways.

A better option...in my opinion.

That said, I think a team gambles and takes him day 2. I wouldn't be surprised if he's gone in the 1st, though.

[Hawgdriver]

A better option...in my opinion.

That said, I think a team gambles and takes him day 2. I wouldn't be surprised if he's gone in the 1st, though.

I don't get why he'd turn down 4.5m to go day 2, maybe his agent is optimistic.

[CoachChaz]

And that's part of the gamble. I think he enters the draft...sees where he goes...and decides from there. If he isn't a first rounder, then maybe he just reports to the A's. A mystery until it happens.

[OrangeHoof]

Doug Flutie was scary good in college too. Even won a Heisman. Then there's Johnny Highball. Drew Brees has made playing as an undersized QB in the NFL work but what do I know? I thought taking a kid from that QB factory in Lubbock was pure Fool's Gold. I laughed when the Chiefs took him. Who knew he'd be the NFL's first point guard?

[HORSEPOWER 56]

If White is as good as everyone says, why do people think he’ll still be there at 10?

[Ziggy]

If White is as good as everyone says, why do people think he’ll still be there at 10?

For the same reason that Kuechly was taken at 9. The MLBer position is not as high on the priority list as QB, LT, CB, and pass rushers. It has nothing to do with White. It has to do with the position he plays. There's also a fabulous MLBer that is an UDFA this year who would be a perfect fit in this defense.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

For the same reason that Kuechly was taken at 9. The MLBer position is not as high on the priority list as QB, LT, CB, and pass rushers. It has nothing to do with White. It has to do with the position he plays. There's also a fabulous MLBer that is an UDFA this year who would be a perfect fit in this defense.

So I’m guessing we’re so flush at those other positions that we can take the MLB at 10?

[Jsteve01]

For the same reason that Kuechly was taken at 9. The MLBer position is not as high on the priority list as QB, LT, CB, and pass rushers. It has nothing to do with White. It has to do with the position he plays. There's also a fabulous MLBer that is an UDFA this year who would be a perfect fit in this defense.

So I’m guessing we’re so flush at those other positions that we can take the MLB at 10?

Hp56 do you remember what Al Wilson did for this team? Or Urlacher for the Bears? Willis for the 9ers? How about Ray Lewis? Thats the type of impact you potentially get from White. It isnt that we are flush at the other positions. We just have options there. ILB has been a glaring hole since Danny T left. Now all that said. Coney or Wilson in the 2nd would be just fine with me

[CoachChaz]

I think...at least I would hope...that needs are prioritized along with depth. If top needs are MLB, CB and OL...I would say there is much more depth at CB and OL. So, take the MLB in the first and get the CB and OL later. But, Elway may see it differently. Also figure that with Munchak and Kuper in the fold, we have a better group suited to developing later round picks on the OL and you can gamble a little more there. All a guessing game until it happens.

[Shazam!]

QB going 1st IMO no other need greater than on offense

[CoachChaz]

QB going 1st IMO no other need greater than on offense

Typically, I would agree. But another swing and miss likely means Elway's job. This isn't exactly the best QB class to take that gamble with. Which is why I can see us being a big player in the Foles sweepstakes.

[Northman]

Typically, I would agree. But another swing and miss likely means Elway's job. This isn't exactly the best QB class to take that gamble with. Which is why I can see us being a big player in the Foles sweepstakes.

If thats the idea than what do they do with Case? Bench him? At his current cost?

[Valar Morghulis]

Typically, I would agree. But another swing and miss likely means Elway's job. This isn't exactly the best QB class to take that gamble with. Which is why I can see us being a big player in the Foles sweepstakes.

Foles will flame out wherever he goes next. I have never been more sure of anything.

I would rather roll with bortles, at least he'd be cheaper

[Poet]

Foles will flame out wherever he goes next. I have never been more sure of anything.

I would rather roll with bortles, at least he'd be cheaper

He's inconsistent and only succeeded with stacked teams. He was incredibly average in the postseason. I hope we don't get him. But, if we did, it would be exciting in a way. Maybe he does put it together and goes nuts like he did that one year. It would at least have real upside, unlike the CK deal.

[Northman]

Foles will flame out wherever he goes next. I have never been more sure of anything.

I would rather roll with bortles, at least he'd be cheaper


He's inconsistent and only succeeded with stacked teams. He was incredibly average in the postseason. I hope we don't get him. But, if we did, it would be exciting in a way. Maybe he does put it together and goes nuts like he did that one year. It would at least have real upside, unlike the CK deal.

Well, technically he would be coming to a very strong team and organization so......

[Valar Morghulis]

Well, technically he would be coming to a very strong team and organization so......

yeah - that was King's take - my take is he caught lightening in a bottle once, and it will never be repeated - even with OBJ, Julio Jones and AB as his 3 WRs.

[Northman]

yeah - that was King's take - my take is he caught lightening in a bottle once, and it will never be repeated - even with OBJ, Julio Jones and AB as his 3 WRs.

Perhaps but he actually still got the Eagles into the playoffs this year and helped win a SB last year. Will it last? Who knows but if its about being in the right moment at the right time i can think of worse places to end up than Denver. At this point im willing to pass on Foles and Keenum and just start a rookie but what do i know.

[Valar Morghulis]

Perhaps but he actually still got the Eagles into the playoffs this year and helped win a SB last year. Will it last? Who knows but if its about being in the right moment at the right time i can think of worse places to end up than Denver. At this point im willing to pass on Foles and Keenum and just start a rookie but what do i know.

Reference his season when they won the SB - no argument, he was amazing. This year, i think his performances were over assessed based on the year before.

I just see someone who had an Eli/Flacco postseason and will get paid big - but never perform to that level again (yes i know Eli had 2 wonderful post season runs - so maybe he is not a great example)

[Poet]

Well, technically he would be coming to a very strong team and organization so......

Is it a strong team? One corner who is good, and is coming off of injury. One proven WR. Solid line, but might have to replace some departures (I know we agree on the line), missing ILB's, bad safeties, no TE, etc. etc. etc. I think it's an average team.

[CoachChaz]

If thats the idea than what do they do with Case? Bench him? At his current cost?

When I say player, I mean investigative into the cost associated with signing him and releasing Keenum. All part of the homework I'm sure they'll do.

[Ziggy]

QB should certainly be a priority on this team, but I love the 2nd tier of QB's in this draft. I won't fault Elway for getting his guy at 10 or moving up if the price is right. If it's not, there are some gems that will go in the late first, second, and third rounds.

[CoachChaz]

QB should certainly be a priority on this team, but I love the 2nd tier of QB's in this draft. I won't fault Elway for getting his guy at 10 or moving up if the price is right. If it's not, there are some gems that will go in the late first, second, and third rounds.

Which oddly enough is probably where guys like Haskins, Lock and Jones should be going in any normal year.

Curious as to which "2nd level" QB's people like. Every year there is someone banging a drum for a Connor Cook or Hackenburg or someone of that ilk. Much like I see a lot of interesting love for mediocre guys like Stidham and Finley. Just curious what it is people see in them that scouts or followers of college football don't see.

[Ziggy]

Which oddly enough is probably where guys like Haskins, Lock and Jones should be going in any normal year.

Curious as to which "2nd level" QB's people like. Every year there is someone banging a drum for a Connor Cook or Hackenburg or someone of that ilk. Much like I see a lot of interesting love for mediocre guys like Stidham and Finley. Just curious what it is people see in them that scouts or followers of college football don't see.

Who cares if you're a scout or a "follower of college football?" Some of us watch plenty of college football but don't live for it. Yes, there are folks beating the drums for Cook or Hackenburg, but some of those same folks were beating the drum for Malik Jackson and Tom Brady. That's what makes the draft so much fun.


I can't speak for everyone, but I'm one of Stidham's fans. I also like Will Grier a lot. I don't have access to senior bowl or combine interviews, and that's really where these QB's should be separated after their tape. I don't only look at the players' production in college games. I look at the skill sets as well. There is a ton of players being held back by coaching and systems. There are also players dropping down draft boards due to size and 40 times.

[Chris Harris and Philip Lindsay approve this message.]

[underrated29]

Who cares if you're a scout or a "follower of college football?" Some of us watch plenty of college football but don't live for it. Yes, there are folks beating the drums for Cook or Hackenburg, but some of those same folks were beating the drum for Malik Jackson and Tom Brady. That's what makes the draft so much fun.


I can't speak for everyone, but I'm one of Stidham's fans. I also like Will Grier a lot. I don't have access to senior bowl or combine interviews, and that's really where these QB's should be separated after their tape. I don't only look at the players' production in college games. I look at the skill sets as well. There is a ton of players being held back by coaching and systems. There are also players dropping down draft boards due to size and 40 times.

[Chris Harris and Philip Lindsay approve this message.]




Those are my two favorites as well.

With Stidham I see a very strong arm. Maybe not Lock strong but the guy has a gun! He also reads the defense and does not lock onto his first read as much as the other QBs ahead of him. He is mobile in the pocket and can run a bit as well. He does not take too many hits and will slide which I appreciate and to me shows heads up thinking. Is the extra yard with taking a shot? Not as a QB. I also love the fact that he has a shit OL. Those guys just let the defense run right at him. He still was able to improvise, cimb the pocket or throw it away. Now he made bad decisions sometimes, but all QBs do.
It is the QBs who have all day to throw and find their guy that scare the piss out of me. That wont happen in the NFL. So if the guy can hang in there and still make drives with zero OL he will be that much more prepared for the NFL. He has the things I deem important for a QB.
1. Can read the defense
2. does not lock onto 1st read, goes through progressions
3. Strong arm to make every throw
4. Mobile enough

I do not know about his character/ personality or leadership. THat I cannot glean from watching him play. He needs to work on his footwork and he needs better touch. He throws high at times and too hard at times. His WR dropped a ton of balls too. Just a ton. The passes were not always perfect, but catch able.



Grier- I am still working on him, but this kid is super accurate. I do not know if this ankle thing is true or what but he just puts the ball right on the money, just like peyton manning. Thats about as far as I will compare him to manning, to me, he looks a lot like Matt Ryan. Strong enough arm but not crazy. Mobile in the pocket but not a run threat. Can read the defense and his progressions best amongst the QBs. If he can read the d and be dead on balls accurate like he was in College he can/will be a great QB. I do not see super start but I also see a really high floor with him. Matt ryan. I see matt ryan.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I'd be fine with Foles. He rarely turns it over or hurts his team. He is athletic enough to move in the pocket. He has had an up and down career but I prefer him to KC. He was amazing early on, had issues at a QB wasteland, won a SB and outplayed a young stud this year while getting his team to the playoffs. Average playoffs? OK...Goff threw 4 INTs vs the team he beat...who also happens to be the #1 defense in football. His game losing INT v NO was a clear drop.

The other benefit is that we can address other positions now to help him out via the draft. The draftable rookie QBs are all scabs who I have little desire to obtain. Grab Foles' replacement in 2020 or 2021...or take a mid round guy this year.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Those are my two favorites as well.

With Stidham I see a very strong arm. Maybe not Lock strong but the guy has a gun! He also reads the defense and does not lock onto his first read as much as the other QBs ahead of him. He is mobile in the pocket and can run a bit as well. He does not take too many hits and will slide which I appreciate and to me shows heads up thinking. Is the extra yard with taking a shot? Not as a QB. I also love the fact that he has a shit OL. Those guys just let the defense run right at him. He still was able to improvise, cimb the pocket or throw it away. Now he made bad decisions sometimes, but all QBs do.
It is the QBs who have all day to throw and find their guy that scare the piss out of me. That wont happen in the NFL. So if the guy can hang in there and still make drives with zero OL he will be that much more prepared for the NFL. He has the things I deem important for a QB.
1. Can read the defense
2. does not lock onto 1st read, goes through progressions
3. Strong arm to make every throw
4. Mobile enough

I do not know about his character/ personality or leadership. THat I cannot glean from watching him play. He needs to work on his footwork and he needs better touch. He throws high at times and too hard at times. His WR dropped a ton of balls too. Just a ton. The passes were not always perfect, but catch able.



Grier- I am still working on him, but this kid is super accurate. I do not know if this ankle thing is true or what but he just puts the ball right on the money, just like peyton manning. Thats about as far as I will compare him to manning, to me, he looks a lot like Matt Ryan. Strong enough arm but not crazy. Mobile in the pocket but not a run threat. Can read the defense and his progressions best amongst the QBs. If he can read the d and be dead on balls accurate like he was in College he can/will be a great QB. I do not see super start but I also see a really high floor with him. Matt ryan. I see matt ryan.

My issue with Stidham is he got worse every year in terms of rating and completion %. Not a good sign

[underrated29]

My issue with Stidham is he got worse every year in terms of rating and completion %. Not a good sign


Yep not good at all. Which is why imo he is not a lock ow/mid first rd pick. This is where things that I cannot see come into play.

Is it because talent got worse around him? I know his OL sucked, but did WR and such go too? Coaching? Poor scheme? Or is it none of those and he is just not that good of a QB?

I have no clue on that stuff. I would love it if someone did have that info. Do you know any reason why he got worse? It would sure help a ton in evaluating him. Maybe he just got the Dereck Carr/Kyle Orton jitters and now is afraid to get nailed and just throws the ball scared hes going to get smashed?

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Auburn got that shifty track star who helped Stidham on the short pass and runs. They always have talent as they always recruit very well but they never seem to be a huge passing team

[Jsteve01]

Auburn got that shifty track star who helped Stidham on the short pass and runs. They always have talent as they always recruit very well but they never seem to be a huge passing team

Stidham....he is either good David Carr or bad David Carr and i cant tell which. And that scares the shit out of me

[Northman]

None of the QB's in this draft overly wow me but they all have their own pros and cons to their game but there are a few of them i really have no problems taking a chance on if need be.

[Shazam!]

It is the unknown regardless of whether it is a 'good' Draft class or not.

Broncos are so desperate at QB right now to elevate this putrid offense. Elway and Co. put them in this mess they have to roll the dice on Lock or Grier or Rypien and see wht they can do.

I really think Lock could be the real deal.

[Nomad]

None of the QB's in this draft overly wow me but they all have their own pros and cons to their game but there are a few of them i really have no problems taking a chance on if need be.

Again....too much defensive talent to waste on a 'hope he works out' QB. I get the Broncos are desperate, but I sure hope they wait until 2nd round.

[turftoad]

It is the unknown regardless of whether it is a 'good' Draft class or not.

Broncos are so desperate at QB right now to elevate this putrid offense. Elway and Co. put them in this mess they have to roll the dice on Lock or Grier or Rypien and see wht they can do.

I really think Lock could be the real deal.

I'd rather take White. Way less of a dice roll. Then see what the new coaching staff can do with CK.

[Northman]

1-2 Rounders i would be fine with,

Lock
Grier
Daniels


Rounds 2-7,

Finley
Stidham
Rypien
Minshew
Browning

Denver will simply have to take a shot on someone at some point.

[turftoad]

Any time you chase a desperation things don't usually work out.

[Northman]

I'd rather take White. Way less of a dice roll. Then see what the new coaching staff can do with CK.

In the first i would love White no doubt about it, he is definitely the safest pick and would be an immediate impact.

[Northman]

Again....too much defensive talent to waste on a 'hope he works out' QB. I get the Broncos are desperate, but I sure hope they wait until 2nd round.

That would be my preferred strategy

[turftoad]

In the first i would love White no doubt about it, he is definitely the safest pick and would be an immediate impact.

For the next ten years!! We haven't had a true stud MLB since the great Al Wilson!

[Northman]

For the next ten years!! We haven't had a true stud MLB since the great Al Wilson!

Indeed. For all the talk of needing a QB we simply have not had a MLB worth a damn for quite a while. Its time to change that.

[Valar Morghulis]

1-2 Rounders i would be fine with,

Lock
Grier
Daniels


Rounds 2-7,

Finley
Stidham
Rypien
Minshew
Browning

Denver will simply have to take a shot on someone at some point.

Charlie Casserly said Daniel Jones was the best qb at the N v S game

[Poet]

Indeed. For all the talk of needing a QB we simply have not had a MLB worth a damn for quite a while. Its time to change that.

TE's aren't going away. Lord knows some sideline to sideline range ability in a LB would be great, too.

[Northman]

Charlie Casserly said Daniel Jones was the best qb at the N v S game

And thats fine but none of this stuff (even from scouts and draft nuts) is a slam dunk. Like all the QB's i think Daniels has some issues and having watched him play against UVA a couple of times he has some glaring issues but there are parts of his game i like. I think people tend to make too much of a big deal out of their HC but that guy is also the same one whose team got absolutely waxed by Wake Forest.

[Northman]

TE's aren't going away. Lord knows some sideline to sideline range ability in a LB would be great, too.

Exactly.

[Nomad]

For the next ten years!! We haven't had a true stud MLB since the great Al Wilson!


Indeed. For all the talk of needing a QB we simply have not had a MLB worth a damn for quite a while. Its time to change that.

I just hope White is there at #10. I have a feeling he'll have a great combine, and move up the board for some teams. But....there are still some really good talent on defense that will be there at 10. I trust Fangio will recognize that talent. I also feel a little better if the Broncos go with Lock (he's the only one at 10 I'd take) because we have the QB whisperer as our OC.

Senior Bowl today, so we'll get to see some prospects in action.

[Nomad]

TE's aren't going away. Lord knows some sideline to sideline range ability in a LB would be great, too.

Guard? :D

[Northman]

I just hope White is there at #10. I have a feeling he'll have a great combine, and move up the board for some teams. But....there are still some really good talent on defense that will be there at 10. I trust Fangio will recognize that talent. I also feel a little better if the Broncos go with Lock (he's the only one at 10 I'd take) because we have the QB whisperer as our OC.

Senior Bowl today, so we'll get to see some prospects in action.

If White isnt there i would be fine with Devin Bush from Michigan but i think he is a 2nd or 3rd round prospect.

[Poet]

Guard? :D

This man is a monster!

[Valar Morghulis]

And thats fine but none of this stuff (even from scouts and draft nuts) is a slam dunk. Like all the QB's i think Daniels has some issues and having watched him play against UVA a couple of times he has some glaring issues but there are parts of his game i like. I think people tend to make too much of a big deal out of their HC but that guy is also the same one whose team got absolutely waxed by Wake Forest.

oh - i agree.

i was more sharing casserly's opinion than arguing against anything you said!

[Nomad]

Disgusting seeing Mayock in a Raiders jacket.

[Nomad]

Anyone watching the Senior Bowl?

[Poet]

Anyone watching the Senior Bowl?

In passing.

[Nomad]

In passing.

Did you like Lock's left handed Jay Cutler toss to the TE?

[Poet]

Did you like Lock's left handed Jay Cutler toss to the TE?

I think you're warming up to a QB!

[Nomad]

I love Minshew's pornstache. :D

[Nomad]

I think you're warming up to a QB!

It was just an observation. Don't read too much into it.

[Nomad]

Minshew reminds me of Uncle Rico from Napoleon Dynamite. :D

[Nomad]

Gruden went from being Chucky to Chunky. :D

[Nomad]

I like this Hunter Renfrow kid.

[Nomad]

These QBs in this Senior Bowl are really underwhelming.

[Poet]

It's about Haskins, tbh. Murray, too.

[Nomad]

King.....I'm afraid White is gonna be gone by the 10th pick.

[Poet]

King.....I'm afraid White is gonna be gone by the 10th pick.

I've been saying that for about a week.

[Poet]

He's almost a perfect prospect. He's intelligent, and a gamer, too. ILB is still an important position, and his talent is so high that teams who don't value the position might very well take him anyway.

He's a faster Bowman.

[Nomad]

I've been saying that for about a week.

I must of missed it. I'm a little sad for him that he may be stuck in Detroit.

[Nomad]

He's almost a perfect prospect. He's intelligent, and a gamer, too. ILB is still an important position, and his talent is so high that teams who don't value the position might very well take him anyway.

He's a faster Bowman.

I'll miss watching him on Saturdays. Broncos still have a chance at getting Greedy. Geaux Tigahs!

[Poet]

I'll miss watching him on Saturdays. Broncos still have a chance at getting Greedy. Geaux Tigahs!

That would make me feel better about the secondary.

[Poet]

If we aren't going QB we just need elite playmaking ability. Bah. The draft depresses me. I'm unwell. I'll see you all in a few months I hope. Goodbye. Farewell. Remember me.

[Nomad]

That would make me feel better about the secondary.

I believe we have a really good coaching staff, and they'll give good advice to JElway. If they pick at QB, then I trust he'll be our franchise QB.

[Nomad]

If we aren't going QB we just need elite playmaking ability. Bah. The draft depresses me. I'm unwell. I'll see you all in a few months I hope. Goodbye. Farewell. Remember me.

You can't leave yet. We still have a Super Bowl to watch, and root for the Rams.

[Poet]

You can't leave yet. We still have a Super Bowl to watch, and root for the Rams.

Go C.J.!

[Nomad]

Stidham is in.

[Nomad]

I read Elway really likes the S (Nasir Adderley) who just made the pick.

[Northman]

I read Elway really likes the S (Nasir Adderley) who just made the pick.

The Raiders really like him too.

[aberdien]

Haskins or don't bother!

[Northman]

Haskins will gone soon.

[Nomad]

The Raiders really like him too.

I never heard of the guy until today.

Did any of these QBs impress you today?

[Northman]

I never heard of the guy until today.

Did any of these QBs impress you today?

The only two that stood out from the time that i watched was McSorley and Jackson. Lock and Grier looked way off which was strange because they were supposed to be a bit more polished than the other guys. But to be fair its hard for them to do much with limited game time. As far as the North's 2nd half i didnt see much but from what i heard they put on a offensive show which i missed. But all this is one reason why i dont think any QB in this draft is a slam dunk and i would still be quite happy if we got White at 10.

[turftoad]

The only two that stood out from the time that i watched was McSorley and Jackson. Lock and Grier looked way off which was strange because they were supposed to be a bit more polished than the other guys. But to be fair its hard for them to do much with limited game time. As far as the North's 2nd half i didnt see much but from what i heard they put on a offensive show which i missed. But all this is one reason why i dont think any QB in this draft is a slam dunk and i would still be quite happy if we got White at 10.
Ditto! The thread title is the safest pick in the draft not biggest chance in the draft!

[Poet]

Ditto! The thread title is the safest pick in the draft not biggest chance in the draft!

Safe picks are often what cause a slow death to a team.

[turftoad]

Safe picks are often what cause a slow death to a team.

Taking chances on QB's has been!

[Poet]

Taking chances on QB's has been!

Every pick is a chance - not having a QB is a concession on the season. Do you like conceding a season before it starts? Starting without a real QB and going .500 or maybe getting to ten wins for a WC isn't a good life. and the WC/10 win teams is pretty much the 'best' case scenario. Mediocrity is the real enemy.

[Northman]

Every pick is a chance but some chances are less risky than others. Any QB this draft is a higher risk than taking a LB who's upside is far more certain. Im ok with looking at QB's after the 1st round but any QB we take in the first (if we go that route) better be worth it because from here on out every pick we make needs to count and since most 1st rounders are day one starters its often better to go with definitives than maybe's.

[Poet]

Every pick is a chance but some chances are less risky than others. Any QB this draft is a higher risk than taking a LB who's upside is far more certain. Im ok with looking at QB's after the 1st round but any QB we take in the first (if we go that route) better be worth it because from here on out every pick we make needs to count and since most 1st rounders are day one starters its often better to go with definitives than maybe's.

All I'm saying is that people seem to think we can just get one next year. Like magically someone will trade with us, or there will be so many we'll get the third or fourth QB, but that guy will be as good as the first or second guy in most drafts. And I'm just saying that without a real guy we're hoping to get WCs and concede the division to the Chiefs.

[Northman]

All I'm saying is that people seem to think we can just get one next year. Like magically someone will trade with us, or there will be so many we'll get the third or fourth QB, but that guy will be as good as the first or second guy in most drafts. And I'm just saying that without a real guy we're hoping to get WCs and concede the division to the Chiefs.

Well, technically Denver can get one next year, or the year after. Denver can draft a QB in the first round for the next 3 years but it wont guarantee we land a franchise QB. We could end up like a laughing stock like the Lions when they drafted a WR 3 straight years before they finally got Calvin Johnson. Even if Denver doesnt draft a QB this year it wont be the end of the world. There is no guarantee that Denver has a successful season under Fangio next year. But whatever Denver does do this offseason they have to be smart choices. And to a degree they do have to be safe chocies because for every **** up it sets us back that much more.

[Poet]

Well, technically Denver can get one next year, or the year after. Denver can draft a QB in the first round for the next 3 years but it wont guarantee we land a franchise QB. We could end up like a laughing stock like the Lions when they drafted a WR 3 straight years before they finally got Calvin Johnson. Even if Denver doesnt draft a QB this year it wont be the end of the world. There is no guarantee that Denver has a successful season under Fangio next year. But whatever Denver does do this offseason they have to be smart choices. And to a degree they do have to be safe chocies because for every **** up it sets us back that much more.

The year after? Oh man....I think I just died a little. If we don't have the front office to find a real QB, nor the coaches to develop one, we have the wrong people employed. Full stop.

Look at my avatar. I did this for youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu.

[Northman]

The year after? Oh man....I think I just died a little. If we don't have the front office to find a real QB, nor the coaches to develop one, we have the wrong people employed. Full stop.

Look at my avatar. I did this for youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu.

I dont disagree, which is why i think John has to be both smart and safe with his choices because if he bombs than his job is on the line. His leash is getting shorter and shorter so i hope he does his due diligence.

[Poet]

I dont disagree, which is why i think John has to be both smart and safe with his choices because if he bombs than his job is on the line. His leash is getting shorter and shorter so i hope he does his due diligence.

If there was no QB worth taking last year, and we don't find one this year, I'll honestly think it's more about poor talent evaluation and bad coaching than anything else. I've defended JFE drafts on here for years, man.

[Northman]

If there was no QB worth taking last year, and we don't find one this year, I'll honestly think it's more about poor talent evaluation and bad coaching than anything else. I've defended JFE drafts on here for years, man.

I think Denver already struggles there but only because for some reason John believes a QB should sit for a couple of years before starting. Im not sure i agree with that mantra as other QB's have started and turned out fine. I think for their development its more important to have good coaching and supporting talent. For a young QB on a bad team it might be better to allow him to sit a bit before starting. While im fine with taking a chance on a QB or two in this draft i just dont want to reach for one because none of them scream "definitives" to me. There is no Andrew Luck or Manning in this draft for me so if we take one in a range they are expected to go than fine, but dont trade up and all that. Just let the draft play out and get the best talent available if its there.

[turftoad]

Every pick is a chance - not having a QB is a concession on the season. Do you like conceding a season before it starts? Starting without a real QB and going .500 or maybe getting to ten wins for a WC isn't a good life. and the WC/10 win teams is pretty much the 'best' case scenario. Mediocrity is the real enemy.

Yea every pick is a chance. However, reaching for a QB is more of a chance than safe. And I think this year it's going to be more of a chance at QB.
Yes they are going to rise because of the hype at the position and people around here are going to start going crazy about it and how bad we need one, etc, etc... Even if we drafted one do you really think he's going to make us that better next year or even the year after? I doubt it buddy.
I just don't see our need is that bad. Let's see what the new coaching staff can do to help CK and draft a better safe/sure thing at another position of great need like White.
CK came into a crappy coaching situation that's why they were fired, because they were crappy coaches all around.

[Poet]

Yea every pick is a chance. However, reaching for a QB is more of a chance than safe. And I think this year it's going to be more of a chance at QB.
Yes they are going to rise because of the hype at the position and people around here are going to start going crazy about it and how bad we need one, etc, etc... Even if we drafted one do you really think he's going to make us that better next year or even the year after? I doubt it buddy.
I just don't see our need is that bad. Let's see what the new coaching staff can do to help CK and draft a better safe/sure thing at another position of great need like White.
CK came into a crappy coaching situation that's why they were fired, because they were crappy coaches all around.

Why is there an assumption some of these guys are reaches? I've not seen much evidence of Haskins being a reach. Nor have I seen anything that indicates Murray as a reach other than his size. It's not hype at the position - you can't win anything without a QB. Is there a SB contending team without a top flight QB? I don't think so. If we draft one we at least get the ball moving. Also, look at the trend. The Rams, Chiefs, and Seattle all made major pickups after drafting their guy, Philly did this too, because if you land a solid one wiht potential you can take advantage of his small contract. So, in that sense, a young rookie QB who is performing is the way to go.

You need to stop it with Keenum. He had one good year on a loaded team. He was awful last year. He will, at best, be average. That's his ceiling. He's pretty worthless and it was embarrassing when Elway signed him. Toad, the top four scoring offenses made the AFCCG and NFCCGs, respectively. Keenum game managers usually flame out in the playoffs, and elite guys tend to be the ones winning SB's.

[Northman]

Why is there an assumption some of these guys are reaches? I've not seen much evidence of Haskins being a reach. Nor have I seen anything that indicates Murray as a reach other than his size. It's not hype at the position - you can't win anything without a QB. Is there a SB contending team without a top flight QB? I don't think so. If we draft one we at least get the ball moving. Also, look at the trend. The Rams, Chiefs, and Seattle all made major pickups after drafting their guy, Philly did this too, because if you land a solid one wiht potential you can take advantage of his small contract. So, in that sense, a young rookie QB who is performing is the way to go.

You need to stop it with Keenum. He had one good year on a loaded team. He was awful last year. He will, at best, be average. That's his ceiling. He's pretty worthless and it was embarrassing when Elway signed him. Toad, the top four scoring offenses made the AFCCG and NFCCGs, respectively. Keenum game managers usually flame out in the playoffs, and elite guys tend to be the ones winning SB's.

The only thing i will say about Haskins is this and why i agree with Turf about him being a "reach".

If you took Haskins and put him in the same draft with guys like Andrew Luck, Philip Rivers, Baker Mayfield, and Sam Darnold i would pretty much guarantee that Haskins would be the last one taken of that group which would probably make him a high second or low second at best.

The problem with drafts like this is that the QB's in this class are not necessarily first rounders but because the demand is always there you are going to get players like Tim Tebow, Joe Flacco, or Paxton Lynch become reaches because there isnt any real candidates available. This doesnt mean that Haskins is garbage but i dont think he is worth a top 10 pick personally. But because the demand is there he is going to be taken regardless.

[turftoad]

Why is there an assumption some of these guys are reaches? I've not seen much evidence of Haskins being a reach. Nor have I seen anything that indicates Murray as a reach other than his size. It's not hype at the position - you can't win anything without a QB. Is there a SB contending team without a top flight QB? I don't think so. If we draft one we at least get the ball moving. Also, look at the trend. The Rams, Chiefs, and Seattle all made major pickups after drafting their guy, Philly did this too, because if you land a solid one wiht potential you can take advantage of his small contract. So, in that sense, a young rookie QB who is performing is the way to go.

You need to stop it with Keenum. He had one good year on a loaded team. He was awful last year. He will, at best, be average. That's his ceiling. He's pretty worthless and it was embarrassing when Elway signed him. Toad, the top four scoring offenses made the AFCCG and NFCCGs, respectively. Keenum game managers usually flame out in the playoffs, and elite guys tend to be the ones winning SB's.
There were 4 QB's drafted in the top ten picks last heat. They were all worth it by the looks so far.
If 4 QB's go in the top ten this year, NFL teams are stupid.
Give me the safer pick this year at a position of need.

[Poet]

There were 4 QB's drafted in the top ten picks last heat. They were all worth it by the looks so far.
If 4 QB's go in the top ten this year, NFL teams are stupid.
Give me the safer pick this year at a position of need.

Mayfield and Darnold looked worthy. Rosen played on a team with two OC's, nine different OL lineups, and lost his entire starting OL. Allen for his flaws, won five games on what was labeled as one of the worst rosters in the game. You wanna know what's wild? Advanced stats barely had Keenum ahead of several of those guys, and only one QB, Mayfield, was in a better position than CK.

Mahomes, Wentz, Goff, were traded up for and had warts and a lot of critics. Right now Haskins looks like the real deal. I won't be upset if we don't go QB, but there are a lot of risks by not going QB, too. The league has changed and Keenum is garbage. It's time to acknowledge that.

[turftoad]

Mayfield and Darnold looked worthy. Rosen played on a team with two OC's, nine different OL lineups, and lost his entire starting OL. Allen for his flaws, won five games on what was labeled as one of the worst rosters in the game. You wanna know what's wild? Advanced stats barely had Keenum ahead of several of those guys, and only one QB, Mayfield, was in a better position than CK.

Mahomes, Wentz, Goff, were traded up for and had warts and a lot of critics. Right now Haskins looks like the real deal. I won't be upset if we don't go QB, but there are a lot of risks by not going QB, too. The league has changed and Keenum is garbage. It's time to acknowledge that.

if this year was last year he would be drafted behind all of those guys.

[Poet]

if this year was last year he would be drafted behind all of those guys.

I think he'd go in the middle. He's a more accurate passer than a lot of those guys, and arguably would have the best arm next to Allen. We're early in the evaluation process and yet you already think Haskins sucks, but you think Keenum is a solid option? It sounds like you went into this one with a predetermined position.

[turftoad]

I think he'd go in the middle. He's a more accurate passer than a lot of those guys, and arguably would have the best arm next to Allen. We're early in the evaluation process and yet you already think Haskins sucks, but you think Keenum is a solid option? It sounds like you went into this one with a predetermined position.

I've never said Haskins sucks. I've never seen him play in the NFL. Have you? I don't want him at 10.
And I've never said Keenum is a solid option. I've said he has had a shitty coaching staff and let's see what the new guys can do with him.

[Northman]

I think Keenum will still struggle but i can deal with him for one more year if needed. If we draft a rookie QB i hope he outplays him though.

[Timmy!]

Lets draft a guard.

[Poet]

I've never said Haskins sucks. I've never seen him play in the NFL. Have you? I don't want him at 10.
And I've never said Keenum is a solid option. I've said he has had a shitty coaching staff and let's see what the new guys can do with him.

But you've supported him before and pointed to him as the QB next year worth seeing what he can do. I don't need to see someone play in the NFL to know if he's a worthy prospect - a prospect comes before being a starter, by definition. If you don't think Haskins sucks, then why are you ruling him out already? Your logic doesn't follow.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

But you've supported him before and pointed to him as the QB next year worth seeing what he can do. I don't need to see someone play in the NFL to know if he's a worthy prospect - a prospect comes before being a starter, by definition. If you don't think Haskins sucks, then why are you ruling him out already? Your logic doesn't follow.

Because "doesn't suck" isn't quite what you are looking for with a top 10 pick?

[Poet]

Because "doesn't suck" isn't quite what you are looking for with a top 10 pick?

I don't think this highly talented QB sucks, who is clearly a first rounder, but I don't want him at ten even though it would be a massive coup for us based on projections right now, while filling the biggest void we have on the team.

That's the logic I would be forced to accept under that reading. And I think Turf is much smarter than that.

[turftoad]

But you've supported him before and pointed to him as the QB next year worth seeing what he can do. I don't need to see someone play in the NFL to know if he's a worthy prospect - a prospect comes before being a starter, by definition. If you don't think Haskins sucks, then why are you ruling him out already? Your logic doesn't follow.

I'm not ruling him out. Just think there will be a better player there. Even if we daft one of these clowns this year, Keenum will still start. For how long who knows. If he plays well, it's still his job.
And. Do you rally want me to take the time by making a list of the worthy prospects at QB in the first round that have shit the bed!?

[Nomad]

Lets draft a guard.

Hell yeah!

[Poet]

I'm not ruling him out. Just think there will be a better player there. Even if we daft one of these clowns this year, Keenum will still start. For how long who knows. If he plays well, it's still his job.
And. Do you rally want me to take the time by making a list of the worthy prospects at QB in the first round that have shit the bed!?

I can find a lot of first round busts at every position. It's a weak argument - because there are so many first round bust WRs and DTs, and corners, yet the latter two are still highly sought after.

An above average QB trumps just about every other position. Like, if we took Haskins, and he was just a top ten QB, his impact on the team dwarfs the best ILB in the game. Not even close.

[Poet]

Hell yeah!

Never accuse me of having a losing mentality when you go hell yeah to drafting a guard.

[Nomad]

Never accuse me of having a losing mentality when you go hell yeah to drafting a guard.

Big nasties are awesome.

[Poet]

Big nasties are awesome.

A great line with no QB is like having the world's best safe, that you spent all your money on, with nothing to put in it.

[turftoad]

A great line with no QB is like having the world's best safe, that you spent all your money on, with nothing to put in it.

Joe Thomas.

[Nomad]

A great line with no QB is like having the world's best safe, that you spent all your money on, with nothing to put in it.

Or you have a great line to draft your franchise QB. A strong foundation makes for a great home for our franchise QB. Munchak agrees.

[Poet]

Joe Thomas.

Wasted career. A true shame. But the idiot kept taking deals to stay in Cleveland, so the loser stayed with the losers.

[Nomad]

King....Broncos are building the team for the franchise QB. Be patience.

[Poet]

Or you have a great line to draft your franchise QB. A strong foundation makes for a great home for our franchise QB. Munchak agrees.

Most young stud QB's don't get a great line right away. And I can point to a lot of teams with great lines who never sniffed a SB. We don't have a franchise QB - you can't cite to Munchak agreeing to eschewing a QB for an OL player because he's never made that statement.

Remeber that great Oakland line? How useful were they when Carr got hurt? Remember those great Cleveland lines from 2006-2010 and the one from a few years ago? How many playoff wins were being churned out? Dallas has a great line - they're SB contenders, right? No, you never ignore the line, but it's never more important than te person they're out there to protect. Ever.

[Poet]

King....Broncos are building the team for the franchise QB. Be patience.

I look forward to the day where we go "the rest of the roster is stacked! Let's trade...oh shit..no one wants to trade Lawrence away...now we're going to trade up for a talent that is really good but not rare...which was available almost...every single...dammit."

Look at all of the pieces together my friend.

[Nomad]

Most young stud QB's don't get a great line right away. And I can point to a lot of teams with great lines who never sniffed a SB. We don't have a franchise QB - you can't cite to Munchak agreeing to eschewing a QB for an OL player because he's never made that statement.

Remeber that great Oakland line? How useful were they when Carr got hurt? Remember those great Cleveland lines from 2006-2010 and the one from a few years ago? How many playoff wins were being churned out? Dallas has a great line - they're SB contenders, right? No, you never ignore the line, but it's never more important than te person they're out there to protect. Ever.

Luck has had a career year behind a great oline. He is a once in a lifetime QB.

[Poet]

Luck has had a career year behind a great oline. He is a once in a lifetime QB.

He also had all-pro caliber years with average lines. I'll take the QB and build the line later if I'm forced. I'd rather have the talented first round QB and the second round guard than vice versa.

[Timmy!]

Fine.
2 guards.

[dogfish]

Fine.
2 guards.

we should probably take one every round, just to be sure. . . seeing as how it is the most important position on the team, and all. . .

[Nomad]

Keep trolling about guards, garbage can. :coffee:

Ragnar would of been a guard.

[MOtorboat]

Ragnar would of been a guard.

No.

[Jsteve01]

Ragnar would of been a guard.

No.

Uhtred would have been Bo Jackson

[SmilinAssasSin27]

It goes both ways. Plenty of experts feel Rodgers is, has been and always will be the best QB in the league. The OL in GB is trash. Stafford is a damn good QB. Trash OL. Ya need both.

[Poet]

It goes both ways. Plenty of experts feel Rodgers is, has been and always will be the best QB in the league. The OL in GB is trash. Stafford is a damn good QB. Trash OL. Ya need both.

Of course you need both - but one is more important than the other. And prioritizing a line over getting a QB, if one is there, is malpractice.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Of course you need both - but one is more important than the other. And prioritizing a line over getting a QB, if one is there, is malpractice.

The level of importance is where I completely disagree. Although ya need 5 to get the line...no stud QB wins a damn thing without a line. System, QB, blocking...all equally important.

[Poet]

The level of importance is where I completely disagree. Although ya need 5 to get the line...no stud QB wins a damn thing without a line. System, QB, blocking...all equally important.

I've listed this out repeatedly. No teams are winning anything and making pushes without a QB. One thing can do something without the other. The other thing doesn't matter if you don't have the other thing. Joe Thomas is probably what, a top three or four LT in his career? He played in two meaningful seasons, only when there was good QB play. A line means nothing without a QB because you can't win without a QB. Period. Doesn't mean lines don't matter.

[Poet]

For instance, it took Dallas and Oakland about one season to get a good to great line. You can usually pick up a top flight guard or two in FA. Teams convert guards to centers all the time with success. Denver cobbled together a solid line with backups and FA/trade talent this season.

Anyone up on the QB trade market?

/argument.

[turftoad]

For instance, it took Dallas and Oakland about one season to get a good to great line. You can usually pick up a top flight guard or two in FA. Teams convert guards to centers all the time with success. Denver cobbled together a solid line with backups and FA/trade talent this season.

Anyone up on the QB trade market?

/argument.
Our makeshift line did a good job in the run game, not so much for pass protection.

[Poet]

Our makeshift line did a good job in the run game, not so much for pass protection.

This is not factually accurate.

[Valar Morghulis]

Our makeshift line did a good job in the run game, not so much for pass protection.

I think we finished the season better in pass pro than we have been in years - going as far back as when Clady was good and healthy.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I've listed this out repeatedly. No teams are winning anything and making pushes without a QB. One thing can do something without the other. The other thing doesn't matter if you don't have the other thing. Joe Thomas is probably what, a top three or four LT in his career? He played in two meaningful seasons, only when there was good QB play. A line means nothing without a QB because you can't win without a QB. Period. Doesn't mean lines don't matter.

I've seen your lists. Doesnt change the fact that both sides of the argument have merit. Bad OLs don't win either.

You say Joe Thomas. I say Matt Stafford.

[Poet]

I've seen your lists. Doesnt change the fact that both sides of the argument have merit. Bad OLs don't win either.

I watched Tom Brady win a SB against Seattle with a banged up and injured line. If a line does nothing without a QB, but QBs can win with bad lines, and often make them look better than they are (see PFM's career) then what merit are you talking about?

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I watched Tom Brady win a SB against Seattle with a banged up and injured line. If a line does nothing without a QB, but QBs can win with bad lines, and often make them look better than they are (see PFM's career) then what merit are you talking about?

You think Foles sucks. SB champ...very good line. Flacco is eh. Ring. Brad Johnson has a ring. 2000 Ravens line...ish QB. Common theme is strong OL play. Again...both sides of the argument have merit. We live in a grayish world. Not all is black and white

[dogfish]

Ragnar would of been a guard.

nah. . . he's a big ego fancy boi. . . QB all the way. . .

rollo would make a hell of a tackle, though. . .

[Poet]

You think Foles sucks. SB champ...very good line. Flacco is eh. Ring. Brad Johnson has a ring. 2000 Ravens line...ish QB. Common theme is strong OL play. Again...both sides of the argument have merit. We live in a grayish world. Not all is black and white

He had one great game. He was nothing but ehh in the playoffs this go around. Can’t wait to watch him next year. Flacco is nothing but eh. He went on a hot streak. If you want outliers go ahead. But the fact you can build a line out of FA and can’t find a QB in FA pretty much seals it. Of course the fact that you’re pointing to winning aSB as a measurement of being a good QB is wrong, too.

[UnderArmour]

I think Keenum will still struggle but i can deal with him for one more year if needed. If we draft a rookie QB i hope he outplays him though.

It seems to be a financial decision. There's no way this franchise pays Keenum to not be on the roster, particularly based on the press conference rhetoric. I think it's a certainty this team takes a QB in the first two rounds, it just depends on how draft boards play out.

Daniel Jones is a carbon copy of Brock and Paxton from a measurement and athletic standpoint, so he would fit exactly what Elway has looked for in the past. If Elway hasn't changed how he evaluates QBs, Jones will be the pick.

[Nomad]

nah. . . he's a big ego fancy boi. . . QB all the way. . .

rollo would make a hell of a tackle, though. . .

I was just messin with King. Ragner would be a LB. Just think if King played football, he'd be a guard. :D

[dogfish]

Just think if King played football, he'd be a guard. :D

this is a great point!

:lol:

messin' with king is more fun than messin' with sasquatch. . . we could do a whole commercial series. . .

[Poet]

I was just messin with King. Ragner would be a LB. Just think if King played football, he'd be a guard. :D

I hate this place and only come back here because I hate myself that much more.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I really think White could be there at 10. No way he goes top 5. After that, who needs MLB help? Maybe Detroit but with Ansah a FA, pass rush is bigger priority. Buffalo must go OLine. Would a team trade up for a LB with all the DL talent up for grabs and teams positioning themselves for QBs in 2020?

[Jsteve01]

I really think White could be there at 10. No way he goes top 5. After that, who needs MLB help? Maybe Detroit but with Ansah a FA, pass rush is bigger priority. Buffalo must go OLine. Would a team trade up for a LB with all the DL talent up for grabs and teams positioning themselves for QBs in 2020?

Look at Roquan and Edmunds last year. If youre not an edge rusher you will slide a little at lb

[CoachChaz]

Look at Roquan and Edmunds last year. If youre not an edge rusher you will slide a little at lb

Roquan went at #8. And in all honesty...I think White is better.

[CoachChaz]

I really think White could be there at 10. No way he goes top 5. After that, who needs MLB help? Maybe Detroit but with Ansah a FA, pass rush is bigger priority. Buffalo must go OLine. Would a team trade up for a LB with all the DL talent up for grabs and teams positioning themselves for QBs in 2020?

Tampa Bay is where I could see him going. Gotta think Patricia would love a defensive QB in Detroit as well.

[Ziggy]

I think White might be there at 10. QB's always rise up and take top 10 spots during the pre-draft process. I also have a feeling that Gruden may go QB, which pushes the rest of the talent down one spot. Think about it. The Giants, Jags, and possibly Raiders could go QB before the Broncos are on the clock.

Miami, New Orleans, Washington, San Diego, Tennessee, New England, Pittsburgh, and the Bucs are some teams that could be looking to secure their QB of the future, either by trading up or using a late first to grab their guy.

That being said, I think that if Haskins or Lock are there at 10, Elway jumps on the opportunity. He should also have quite a bit of inside info on Daniel Jones with his Manning/Cutcliffe connections.

[Hawgdriver]

Roquan went at #8. And in all honesty...I think White is better.

How about White's leadership?

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Tampa Bay is where I could see him going. Gotta think Patricia would love a defensive QB in Detroit as well.

I thought they were pretty loaded at lb

[Nomad]

How about White's leadership?

He leads by example http://www.lsusports.net/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=5200&ATCLID=210632291 , and has been the voice of the Tiger’s defense the last 2 yrs. IMO....his strong leadership skills are unquestionable, and will definitely be missed next season for LSU.