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View Full Version : Detroit media likes a Von for Stafford trade



Jsteve01
01-12-2019, 09:10 AM
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2019/01/11/detroit-lions-matthew-stafford-trade-denver-broncos/2548321002/

I have to admit. Im intrigued. Stafford is only 31 and a QB shelf life is much longer

HORSEPOWER 56
01-12-2019, 09:15 AM
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2019/01/11/detroit-lions-matthew-stafford-trade-denver-broncos/2548321002/

I have to admit. Im intrigued. Stafford is only 31 and a QB shelf life is much longer

If there was any other way than losing Von, I’d be all over it. How about the #10 overall pick and Keenum?

I’d love to have Stafford here, but having a smothering defense and brutal pass rush is vital. We have to play Mahomes and that offense 2x per year. We need a defense that can match up. I still might do it, though...

Shazam!
01-12-2019, 09:28 AM
I saw that. No thanks.

Not at the expense of Von.

I want Denver to actually get a QB through the Draft.

GEM
01-12-2019, 10:13 AM
Stafford's up there in age. He's not put his team on his back and won a SB. Nah. Maybe a younger guy, but not all that high on Stafford. Once Megatron retired, he's done jack squat.

NightTrainLayne
01-12-2019, 10:14 AM
No thanks. Stafford's already hit his ceiling, and it ain't high enough to be worthy of trading Von.

Dapper Dan
01-12-2019, 10:20 AM
I guess now my name is Denver Media.

aberdien
01-12-2019, 11:13 AM
Detroit media can go **** itself

tomjonesrocks
01-12-2019, 11:16 AM
I guess it would depend if you’d rather have Von and Lock or Stafford and whatever pass rusher you’d draft at 10.

Don’t think Fangio took this job to trade Von though.

Nomad
01-12-2019, 11:19 AM
It would be a d*ck move even considering Von going to Detroit. Who would want to play there?

Northman
01-12-2019, 11:30 AM
Stafford's up there in age. He's not put his team on his back and won a SB. Nah. Maybe a younger guy, but not all that high on Stafford. Once Megatron retired, he's done jack squat.

Yea, i think Stafford is a good QB but not a great QB. He's more in the Romo vein which is fine but i woudlnt trade Von for him.

Nomad
01-12-2019, 11:35 AM
All this 'trade Von' nonsense....where is it stemming from? DenBronx had a thread, too.

aberdien
01-12-2019, 11:38 AM
All this 'trade Von' nonsense....where is it stemming from? DenBronx had a thread, too.

People have no respect for our legends!

TXBRONC
01-12-2019, 12:14 PM
I would rather not.

Buff
01-12-2019, 01:41 PM
Stafford not a winner. He is the NFC version of Philip Rivers. Hard pass.

Dapper Dan
01-12-2019, 03:09 PM
People have no respect for our legends!

Nothing is sacred here!

Dapper Dan
01-12-2019, 03:09 PM
Stafford not a winner. He is the NFC version of Philip Rivers. Hard pass.

Wait. You wouldn’t take Phillip Rivers?

Poet
01-12-2019, 03:14 PM
You'd be swapping strength for strength. I guess maybe Chubb could take over but then you're not in possession of another pass rusher. Both Ray and Barrett are gone, most likely.

It wouldn't do much other than MAYBE make Denver a WC contender.

If we are trading Von, we better be getting first round picks out of it. Trading Von = rebuild.

Dapper Dan
01-12-2019, 03:42 PM
You'd be swapping strength for strength. I guess maybe Chubb could take over but then you're not in possession of another pass rusher. Both Ray and Barrett are gone, most likely.

It wouldn't do much other than MAYBE make Denver a WC contender.

If we are trading Von, we better be getting first round picks out of it. Trading Von = rebuild.

Then use that pick to get a shitty QB. Awesome.

Poet
01-12-2019, 03:45 PM
Then use that pick to get a shitty QB. Awesome.

That's assuming a conclusion.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-12-2019, 03:56 PM
Trading Von would be a bad idea and I really don’t support it, but Stafford would be a nice get and no matter what anyone thinks, he’s a more important piece than Von. He is an elite passer. He’s played on a sorry team with no running game and no real defense for a long time. He would make our offense much better. Stafford is a top talent who’s been wasting it in Detroit.

Trading Von does create a hole, but we’re could re-sign Barrett to play opposite of Chubb and have some money to spend in FA. We’d still have the #10 overall pick to use on a guy like Devin White an the QB problem would be solved for another 5-6 years with no rookie development and no risk of busting like a draft pick. It’s an interesting thought.

Poet
01-12-2019, 03:59 PM
You're trading an all-pro defensive player for a pro bowl QB. I don't know, man. If we did it it just would seem like we're trying to cut corners.

Nomad
01-12-2019, 04:00 PM
You're trading an all-pro defensive player for a pro bowl QB. I don't know, man. If we did it it just would seem like we're trying to cut corners.

We agree, friend.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-12-2019, 04:01 PM
You're trading an all-pro defensive player for a pro bowl QB. I don't know, man. If we did it it just would seem like we're trying to cut corners.

Oh I know, and I hate the idea of losing Von, but that’s the big kicker. Does Detroit become a better team with Von and without Stafford? I doubt it. Do we become a better team with Stafford, even without Von? Undoubtedly.

Poet
01-12-2019, 04:03 PM
Oh I know, and I hate the idea of losing Von, but that’s the big kicker. Does Detroit become a better team with Von and without Stafford? I doubt it. Do we become a better team with Stafford, even without Von? Undoubtedly.

We do in theory. But if you're trading Von you want to hit on the picks that you should be getting so you get a QB for 10-15 years, and not 3-5 like Stafford.

Poet
01-12-2019, 04:07 PM
We agree, friend.

When we draft Haskins this will all be behind us. I believe.

Nomad
01-12-2019, 04:10 PM
When we draft Haskins this will all be behind us. I believe.

We'll get our QB.....for the defense.....Devin White. We all know Elway loves Herbert. It'll be next year....you'll get your QB.

Poet
01-12-2019, 04:16 PM
We'll get our QB.....for the defense.....Devin White. We all know Elway loves Herbert. It'll be next year....you'll get your QB.

Who knows if Herbert is good again? Locker looked like the top pick, regressed in his last college year, and then tanked in the NFL.

If there's a guy we think is legitimate, next year's class is irrelevant. We might take White, since we have a HC who values the position, and I'd be happy. But if they had a round one grade on a QB they can get, and they don't, they've failed.

Nomad
01-12-2019, 04:19 PM
Who knows if Herbert is good again? Locker looked like the top pick, regressed in his last college year, and then tanked in the NFL.

If there's a guy we think is legitimate, next year's class is irrelevant. We might take White, since we have a HC who values the position, and I'd be happy. But if they had a round one grade on a QB they can get, and they don't, they've failed.

A lot of QBs look good in college, and tank in the NFL. No different for Haskins, Lock, or Jones having the same possibility. White would be a for sure pick, then again, I see many mocks having the Lions taking White. Poor guy to be on such a lousy team.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-12-2019, 04:32 PM
We do in theory. But if you're trading Von you want to hit on the picks that you should be getting so you get a QB for 10-15 years, and not 3-5 like Stafford.

Maybe, but 5-6 years of Stafford would be more beneficial than 3-4 of Von, IMO. Picks themselves are a crapshoot. No draft pick is guaranteed. Von has what, 3 years left on his contract? So a max of 3 years he’ll still be a Bronco. We won’t sign him to a big contract at 33-34 years old. He’ll start getting year to year deals like Ware did at that point and it won’t be from us because his money will go to Chubb’s second contract.

Make no mistake, I love Von and want him to retire as a Bronco, but a franchise QB is, in fact, more important. I think we’re at a crossroads. If we’re lucky, we can draft a franchise QB and restore this franchise to greatness with the new coaches we’re hiring and a new outlook. Unfortunately, I have a feeling we’re gonna have to find our future QB in another way.

Poet
01-12-2019, 04:56 PM
Maybe, but 5-6 years of Stafford would be more beneficial than 3-4 of Von, IMO. Picks themselves are a crapshoot. No draft pick is guaranteed. Von has what, 3 years left on his contract? So a max of 3 years he’ll still be a Bronco. We won’t sign him to a big contract at 33-34 years old. He’ll start getting year to year deals like Ware did at that point and it won’t be from us because his money will go to Chubb’s second contract.

Make no mistake, I love Von and want him to retire as a Bronco, but a franchise QB is, in fact, more important. I think we’re at a crossroads. If we’re lucky, we can draft a franchise QB and restore this franchise to greatness with the new coaches we’re hiring and a new outlook. Unfortunately, I have a feeling we’re gonna have to find our future QB in another way.

This is a quality post, HP. I'll take it under consideration. Because your point has merit.

Jsteve01
01-12-2019, 05:00 PM
We just need to get creative.

DenBronx
01-12-2019, 05:20 PM
All this 'trade Von' nonsense....where is it stemming from? DenBronx had a thread, too.

I had a Stafford thread but I don’t recall ever saying trade Von for Stafford. I was thinking straight up draft picks for Stafford. He would be much better than what we have now.


Aaron Rogers though? Hmmm

Timmy!
01-12-2019, 05:41 PM
oh **** all that noise.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-12-2019, 06:27 PM
Which spot would be easier to replace? Rush OLB or QB? I wouldn't do it, but if you believe Stafford is that legit...it's actually kind of a no brainer when emotion is removed.

DenBronx
01-12-2019, 07:07 PM
Detroit would have to trade us THEIR 1st Rounder, plus Stafford AND take Keenum off of our hands.

Stafford for Von isn’t a fair trade. And still...I wouldn’t want Von to be traded. No way Vic takes this job knowing Von gets traded.

Northman
01-12-2019, 07:10 PM
Which spot would be easier to replace? Rush OLB or QB? I wouldn't do it, but if you believe Stafford is that legit...it's actually kind of a no brainer when emotion is removed.

If you would have asked me 3-4 years ago about Stafford i might have felt that. But i really dont think he is the kind of guy to carry a team when it needs them to. Too hot and cold as a player.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-12-2019, 07:16 PM
If you would have asked me 3-4 years ago about Stafford i might have felt that. But i really dont think he is the kind of guy to carry a team when it needs them to. Too hot and cold as a player.

And that's what it comes down to....your opinion of MS. If you think he is a franchise guy...no brainer. Draft MLB and sign Detroit's FA pass rusher to go with a Stafford trade.

I'm personally not convinced he is that guy though.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-12-2019, 07:17 PM
If you would have asked me 3-4 years ago about Stafford i might have felt that. But i really dont think he is the kind of guy to carry a team when it needs them to. Too hot and cold as a player.

And that's what it comes down to....your opinion of MS. If you think he is a franchise guy...no brainer. Draft MLB and sign Detroit's FA pass rusher to go with a Stafford trade.

I'm personally not convinced he is that guy though.

Buff
01-12-2019, 08:27 PM
Wait. You wouldn’t take Phillip Rivers?

No. (http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/609266-Philip-Rivers-is-a-born-loser) I especially don't want to trade our franchise player for some aging QB who has never won a single thing.

BroncoNut
01-12-2019, 08:38 PM
Von gets held all day, it's the NFL way; sadly, so I take that into consideration in assessing his real value as a pass rusher, certainly towards the downside. But even with that, Stafford would be no more than a stop gap/ would bring a division championship at best. Bfd. I say no

BroncoWave
01-12-2019, 09:42 PM
Hard pass.

Poet
01-12-2019, 09:43 PM
Hard pass.

Like, if we went Von for Stafford, and got a first and some seconds...or something like that, sure.

But why would they do that?

It just feels wrong.

GEM
01-12-2019, 10:22 PM
Yea, i think Stafford is a good QB but not a great QB. He's more in the Romo vein which is fine but i woudlnt trade Von for him.

Yea, unless there were some picks thrown in for us with Stafford, no thanks. That's trading generational player for a decent player. It reeks desperation with most likely low payoff for us.

Cugel
01-12-2019, 10:36 PM
You'd be swapping strength for strength. I guess maybe Chubb could take over but then you're not in possession of another pass rusher. Both Ray and Barrett are gone, most likely.

It wouldn't do much other than MAYBE make Denver a WC contender.

If we are trading Von, we better be getting first round picks out of it. Trading Von = rebuild.

Drafting a QB = Rebuild. Trading one high priced veteran earning $18m for a franchise QB is Reboot.

Since Stafford is 31, getting him would mean "we are all in on winning a SB right now. We're not going to rebuild for the future by drafting a QB and maybe he'll be great in 3 years, i.e. 2021. I'll be gone then. I want to win right NOW."

If Fangio thinks they can compete in the division with Matt Stafford, then they will absolutely do it in a flash. But, unless the Lions/Stafford relationship is a lot worse than anything I've heard, then they would never trade him.

Poet
01-12-2019, 10:37 PM
Drafting a QB = Rebuild. Trading one high priced veteran earning $18m for a franchise QB is Reboot.

Since Stafford is 31, getting him would mean "we are all in on winning a SB right now. We're not going to rebuild for the future by drafting a QB and maybe he'll be great in 3 years, i.e. 2021. I'll be gone then. I want to win right NOW."

If Fangio thinks they can compete in the division with Matt Stafford, then they will absolutely do it in a flash. But, unless the Lions/Stafford relationship is a lot worse than anything I've heard, then they would never trade him.

Drafting a QB is not always a rebuild. The Steelers with Ben, Flacco with the Ravens, the Texans with Watson. Neither of those teams were trying to blow up their roster.

Cugel
01-12-2019, 11:35 PM
This is the best part of this proposal. Reading their evaluation of Case Keenum. Get a load of this bit:


"So here’s what I propose: The Lions should trade Stafford and a third-round pick to Denver for Miller and Keenum. Stafford and Miller’s cap numbers are similar this year. The two-year, $36-million contract Keenum signed last year is trickier, though Denver would get significant cap relief by trading him and the Lions wouldn’t be tied to him long term. Because of the structure of Stafford's contract, it would behoove the Lions to make the trade after June 1, when the cap hit for dealing him becomes more amendable.

And before you send me hate mail about Keenum and how terrible he is, did you think he was terrible last season, when he threw the Minnesota Miracle pass to Stefon Diggs? Or when he led the Vikings to the NFC title game? Has he been terrible while posting a 6-3 career record against the NFC North?

Keenum’s biggest problem this season was that he didn’t have Pat Shurmur to call the offense and get the most out of him. With the Lions, that wouldn’t be a problem. The Lions could promote or keep quarterbacks coach George Godsey, who was Houston’s QB coach in 2014 when Keenum played well and led the Texans to two late-season wins.

More: Lions offensive coordinator: Hackett, Sarkisian reportedly candidates

In fact, Keenum might be exactly what the Lions need in their desire to be a ball-control offense as part of Patricia’s philosophy of complementary football. Keenum hasn’t come close to Stafford’s gaudy yardage numbers, but their statistics in meaningful categories like completion percentage, interception rate, yards per attempt and passer rating are similar.

“And teams that can run the ball, stop the run, control the game towards the end of the season are really, I think, the teams that will have the most chance to win,” Patricia said last week.

The Lions don’t need a gunslinger like Stafford to run their hum-drum offense. It’s like asking a Ferrari to tow an apple cart in first gear. Stafford needs to open the throttle. He’s a stallion that needs to run free. Maybe even a Bronco set loose in greener pastures."

So, this guy thinks that the Lions would be just fine with Case Keenum as their QB if they could get Von Miller. Sadly, I do not believe that this delusion is shared by the Lions GM.

There is no way that the Lions could watch Case Keenum's tape for 2018 and decide "Yeah. We'd be just fine with this dude as our starting QB in 2019! Let's just trade Matt Stafford!"

You have to admit that if you were the Lions you would not touch Keenum. You would conclude, like every Broncos fan, that Keenum had a career year in MN with some very good TEs to throw to. Then he came to Denver and regained the level of SUCK that he had successfully maintained before with the Rams. So, this remains just some media internet dude who covers the Lions saying something stupid on the internet.


So, how could a trade like this work for them?

dogfish
01-13-2019, 05:39 PM
f*$! that. . .

UnderArmour
01-13-2019, 05:45 PM
Elway isn't trading Von.
Martha Ford would never sign off on trading Stafford.

tripp
01-14-2019, 02:59 PM
I'd be all over that trade. I don't see Von retiring as a Bronco, and the way I see it, we're wasting his prime with a shit team that's rebuilding. Rather trade him and bring in a *good* QB. I always felt Stafford was hindered because of coaching.

BroncoWave
01-14-2019, 03:02 PM
I'd be all over that trade. I don't see Von retiring as a Bronco, and the way I see it, we're wasting his prime with a shit team that's rebuilding. Rather trade him and bring in a *good* QB. I always felt Stafford was hindered because of coaching.

Von is a known Super Bowl MVP commodity for us. I'm not trading that for a guy who maybe could be a winning QB with the right coaching, which we might not even have. No thanks.

tripp
01-14-2019, 03:07 PM
Von is a known Super Bowl MVP commodity for us. I'm not trading that for a guy who maybe could be a winning QB with the right coaching, which we might not even have. No thanks.

What good is it paying a pass rusher that kind of money when we have a shit offense?

HORSEPOWER 56
01-14-2019, 03:15 PM
Lots of folks in here selling Stafford short. How often do you hear anything out of Detroit about anyone other than Stafford now that Megatron is retired? You don’t because that team sucks shit. They’re essentially the same 0-16 team they were before Stafford but with a QB that keeps them near a .500 record these days.

Worst Oline (makes ours look good), no running game (among last in league for years), mediocre to poor defense. Few offensive weapons that, believe it or not, Stafford actually makes look better than they are (like PFM did for his receivers- throwing them open).

Stafford is a top 10 talent level QB playing on a team that rivals the Browns of the last decade coaching and talent wise. If he came here, he would instantly be the 3rd best QB the Broncos have ever had, without ever playing a snap.

dogfish
01-14-2019, 03:43 PM
What good is it paying a pass rusher that kind of money when we have a shit offense?

having a good defense, that's what's good about paying von. . . we need to find a capable rookie-scale QB, that's the best model for opening a championship window. . . not trading for an older stat machine who's never won anything, and has a massive contract. . . the seahawks with wilson, eagles with wentz/foles-- hell, the steelers with rapenstein. . . that's our path to another title. . . you don't go get vic fangio, then immediately give away his best weapon. . . makes no sense. . .

tripp
01-14-2019, 03:44 PM
having a good defense, that's what's good about paying von. . . we need to find a capable rookie-scale QB, that's the best model for opening a championship window. . . not trading for an older stat machine who's never won anything, and has a massive contract. . . the seahawks with wilson, eagles with wentz/foles-- hell, the steelers with rapenstein. . . that's our path to another title. . . you don't go get vic fangio, then immediately give away his best weapon. . . makes no sense. . .

So let's roll with Keenum and have another season like last year. Thank god for those 10+ sacks he got us though.

Finding a capable rookie-scale QB is apparently harder than it looks. Case Keenum was/is our best option at QB, that tells you all you need to know about the QB market. Von Miller's contract is insane for a player that isn't a QB tbh.

dogfish
01-14-2019, 03:57 PM
So let's roll with Keenum and have another season like last year. Thank god for those 10+ sacks he got us though.



in fairness, stafford and a sub-par defense hasn't exactly been wildly successful, either. . . but thank god for those 4,000 yards he got them, amirite?


*shrugs*


all cheap sarcasm aside, i just don't subscribe to the idea that exchanging pieces is the best way to build a team. . . i want to see us ADD to our talent, not just shuffle it around. . . i know finding a QB is tough, but it's not some impossible feat. . . wilson, goff, mahomes, wentz, watson, mayfield and more have come out of recent drafts. . . darnold is a stafford clone. . . you need to have a good offensive scheme with smart people running it, and be able to put talent around a young QB, and you can make it work. . . denver can't let lynch scare them off of drafting another QB-- he was a bust, you learn from it and move on. . . maybe next time, do a little research on his personality and work habits-- like, find out if he actually possesses either. . .

we all want what we want, and it doesn't mean any of us are necessarily right or wrong. . . i want a tough defense with a talented young QB-- i just think it's the best way to go, for both the short and the long term. . .

:defense:

tripp
01-14-2019, 04:07 PM
in fairness, stafford and a sub-par defense hasn't exactly been wildly successful, either. . . but thank god for those 4,000 yards he got them, amirite?


*shrugs*


all cheap sarcasm aside, i just don't subscribe to the idea that exchanging pieces is the best way to build a team. . . i want to see us ADD to our talent, not just shuffle it around. . . i know finding a QB is tough, but it's not some impossible feat. . . wilson, goff, mahomes, wentz, watson, mayfield and more have come out of recent drafts. . . darnold is a stafford clone. . . you need to have a good offensive scheme with smart people running it, and be able to put talent around a young QB, and you can make it work. . . denver can't let lynch scare them off of drafting another QB-- he was a bust, you learn from it and move on. . . maybe next time, do a little research on his personality and work habits-- like, find out if he actually possesses either. . .

we all want what we want, and it doesn't mean any of us are necessarily right or wrong. . . i want a tough defense with a talented young QB-- i just think it's the best way to go, for both the short and the long term. . .

:defense:

yup agree to disagree.

I hate seeing our defense go to waste because our offense can't get it together. I'm just happy VJ is gone.

GEM
01-15-2019, 12:38 AM
How do you think that defense is going to look without Von? :lol: Did you like Chubb this season? Say thanks to Von commanding double and triple teams.

dogfish
01-15-2019, 12:46 AM
How do you think that defense is going to look without Von? :lol: Did you like Chubb this season? Say thanks to Von commanding double and triple teams.

precisely. . . our team's whole identity right now is built around the defense, which is in turn built around our pair of edge rushing terrors. . . we just brought fangio in to maximize those guys, not to trade one of them. . . all due love and respect to my guy chris harris, but him and chubb aren't enough foundational pieces to keep this defense at a top level, let alone to make them truly elite again. . .

i think it's a totally moot point, in any case. . . detroit media aside, they ain't trading him. . . FTR, i would certainly entertain the idea of a package centered around the #9 pick for MS if they did make him available-- but trading #58 is a non-starter after getting vicious vic as our HC. . .

Davii
01-15-2019, 11:04 AM
Why would we trade a multiple all-pro, SB MVP, most likely first-ballot hall of Famer for someone that isn't that?

Von carried this team to a SB. That defense worked because of Von. Ware got left in single coverage, our secondary could play super tight coverage with very little fear of a QB getting enough time to throw the ball, etc...

Get us a QB, yes, but not at the expense of what is our strength.

Freyaka
01-16-2019, 09:56 AM
I really like Stafford, I'd love to have him here, but if they think they can get Von Miller in exchange for Stafford, well they can go forth and multiply with themselves....

Freyaka
01-16-2019, 09:59 AM
So let's roll with Keenum and have another season like last year. Thank god for those 10+ sacks he got us though.

Finding a capable rookie-scale QB is apparently harder than it looks. Case Keenum was/is our best option at QB, that tells you all you need to know about the QB market. Von Miller's contract is insane for a player that isn't a QB tbh.

There is more than one way to skin a cat...Trading one of the top 5 players in franchise history ain't it tripp. I'd rather trade some picks for Foles than make this trade for Stafford.

Freyaka
01-17-2019, 02:30 PM
Lots of folks in here selling Stafford short. How often do you hear anything out of Detroit about anyone other than Stafford now that Megatron is retired? You don’t because that team sucks shit. They’re essentially the same 0-16 team they were before Stafford but with a QB that keeps them near a .500 record these days.

Worst Oline (makes ours look good), no running game (among last in league for years), mediocre to poor defense. Few offensive weapons that, believe it or not, Stafford actually makes look better than they are (like PFM did for his receivers- throwing them open).

Stafford is a top 10 talent level QB playing on a team that rivals the Browns of the last decade coaching and talent wise. If he came here, he would instantly be the 3rd best QB the Broncos have ever had, without ever playing a snap.

Stafford would be amazing with our team. We have the talent he needs. You are right, he single handedly wills that team to be as competitive as possible. They wouldn't be winning games without him.

That said, still wouldn't trade Von for him.