Envisioning Kubiak as Offensive Coordinator

[Jsteve01]

As much as I'm reluctant to admit it sometimes I can be carried along with the general flow of thought in a community. So I will admit much apprehension even at the notion that Kubiak would be the current offensive coordinator given the failures of that offense at the end of his tenure. That said as I sit here this morning having coffee overlooking Tampa Bay oh, a few things come to mind.

First off Kubiak has always been supremely successful as an offensive coordinator. That is undebatable. The last real Vision that we have of him coordinating an offense was with the Ravens. A season in which as mentioned before Joe Flacco had the best of his career. And an unknown running back became a pro bowler. That unit was balanced, unpredictable, dominating at times, explosive when needed, and able to control the clock at will.

I think the apprehension that we all have at this point is related to the two years with Manning. On a perceived ineffectiveness on Kubiak's part. More so even an inability on his part to someho generate cohesiveness with the great Peyton Manning. I find it funny that we're willing to overstate all of Gary's deficiencies in that relationship and yet in a vacuum will mention that Peyton's physical abilities had deteriorated immensely, and understate all the deficiencies in the context of that relationship. As well as roster deficiencies.

My second thought was regarding the 2005 13- 3 Broncos. People talk about Shanahan helping Plummer reinvent himself. I would like to submit that given the problems that Shanahan and Plummer had at a personal level and plummer's regression after Kubiak left that most of the growth that we saw with Jake Plummer was as a direct result of his relationship with Kubiak, Kubiak ability to tutor and Mentor him effectively, and a scheme that played to all of Plummer's strengths. It's no wonder that he failed under Heimerdinger when all of the boot action all of the pocket movement that had made him so effective in the previous season was removed from the offense after Kubiak left for Houston.

I'd also like to submit that if that team had had more than Al Wilson who masked deficiencies at every level of the defense, then they could have beaten the Steelers. And potentially beaten the Seahawks in Super Bowl. That's a lot of would have could have should have. But even with our deficiencies in the secondary which I think were greatly overstated as a result of Joe Woods ineptitude, this roster is much more talented then the team in 2005.

I think with Plummer and Keenum we can see a direct correlation. Both are plus athletes obviously Jake was more so a plus athlete. But if you look at what case did effectively in Minnesota last year, it was when Schirmer moved the pocket for him. When they allowed him to play outside the pocket he was at his best. Do I view him as the long-term franchise quarterback solution? Probably not. But I do think that given his usual ability to protect the football combined with a more creative Gary Kubiak and understated offensive weapons could provide a huge shot in the arm for the team next year.

Add to that that we have a legit defensive Mastermind taking over as head coach and I think that there is huge potential for this team to make a big leap next year.

Lastly there's this trend of thought that you can't teach an old dog new tricks, and yet in our own Division I see Andy Reid redefining himself and redefining what we thought of it as the West Coast offense. There's been a huge skepticism that because somehow Elway had obsessed with college spread Concepts but now that we have Kubiak as offensive coordinator that all of that interest has just been thrown by the wayside. Do we think that someone as intelligent and humble as Gary Kubiak couldn't bring himself to reinvent or expand upon the offensive framework that he's worked with for his entire career just like Doug Pederson and just like Andy Reid have done? I don't see that in Gary Kubiak. I see a guy that has always gotten the most out of the people that played for him when he was an offensive coordinator. I see a guy who took 2 years off and regained some juice and remembered his first love was always as a coordinator. So as I always do at this time of the year I admit but when it comes to my Broncos after initial gut reactions I'm typically inordinately optimistic. But I do think that there's something to this idea that Elway and Kubiak have both taken from what they've seen in the league and what they've seen in college over the past few years and are willing to try and combine that and some sort of mad potion with the Evil Genius that is Vic fangio

[Jsteve01]

Oh and all the krap about klint and nepotism is just silly. See Wade and Kyle and Rex and Elway and then tell me kids cant learn from pops

[Davii]

Oh and all the krap about klint and nepotism is just silly. See Wade and Kyle and Rex and Elway and then tell me kids cant learn from pops

See: Kyle Shanahan

[TXBRONC]

Oh and all the krap about klint and nepotism is just silly. See Wade and Kyle and Rex and Elway and then tell me kids cant learn from pops

I just blew it off. Bitching about nepotism while wanting Wade Philips and Kyle Shanahan whose starts were because of their dads is inconsistent.

[NightTerror218]

I think Kubiak can do much more for keenum then what we saw this year.

Excited to see Lindsey and Freeman in Kubiak system

[Shazam!]

I can def see Kubes trying to make Case Plummer-esque which would be a massive improvement and the dedication to the run game with all the excellent Backs.

I am very optimistic about next season but will they be all in with Case trying to up his game or will Elwy try to get Flacco

[turftoad]

I think Kubiak can do much more for keenum then what we saw this year.

Excited to see Lindsey and Freeman in Kubiak system

I think we will see a little more time share under Kubs.

[Dreadnought]

Great, well-reasoned post. Would read again :salute:

[Cugel]

"As much as I'm reluctant to admit it sometimes I can be carried along with the general flow of thought in a community. So I will admit much apprehension even at the notion that Kubiak would be the current offensive coordinator given the failures of that offense at the end of his tenure."

I would have stopped this post right there. I remember the Kubiak offense in 2015-16 and it wasn't pretty. I suppose there's a possibility that something major will change and the season could turn out great, but I'll have to see it to believe it.

[Shazam!]

2015 - Broken down Manning

2016 - Trevor Simien

A terrible OLine

They won a Championship and had a winning record the following year

Whats the problem?

[Poet]

2015 - Broken down Manning

2016 - Trevor Simien

A terrible OLine

They won a Championship and had a winning record the following year

Whats the problem?

When he was hired all I heard was "oh he is going to fix the line and get us a running game!" The team won with little help from his side of the ball.

Then it was "Oh, he likes TS a lot he's going to coach him up," and the team won on the back of the defense.

What exactly did he contribute as a head coach? He was pretty much a nothing burger at least when it came to the offense. Are we going to ignore how 'great' his playcalling here was, too?

Now before the homers get all pissy, calm the hell down. It was a point that needed to be made.

I personally, am going to take the Davii approach. The Davii approach is that Elway is interested in college offensive scheme integration. What that precisely means, who knows, but with the incorporation of that around the league, it's a good sign JE has taken notice of it. The Davii approach is that hopefully Kubiak has as well because it's what is expected next season. So, we might get something fresh from Kubiak. I am hoping that Kubiak will have a little bit of a renaissance. The talent as a coach is there - he needs to shake it up. We can appreciate him without these half-supported arguments.

[nevcraw]

When he was hired all I heard was "oh he is going to fix the line and get us a running game!" The team won with little help from his side of the ball.

Then it was "Oh, he likes TS a lot he's going to coach him up," and the team won on the back of the defense.

What exactly did he contribute as a head coach? He was pretty much a nothing burger at least when it came to the offense. Are we going to ignore how 'great' his playcalling here was, too?

Now before the homers get all pissy, calm the hell down. It was a point that needed to be made.

I personally, am going to take the Davii approach. The Davii approach is that Elway is interested in college offensive scheme integration. What that precisely means, who knows, but with the incorporation of that around the league, it's a good sign JE has taken notice of it. The Davii approach is that hopefully Kubiak has as well because it's what is expected next season. So, we might get something fresh from Kubiak. I am hoping that Kubiak will have a little bit of a renaissance. The talent as a coach is there - he needs to shake it up. We can appreciate him without these half-supported arguments.

Not just Davii there King! I’ll have to return the Arby’s Meatsweats and stack of VIP cards I had For ya if this oversight continues.

[BeefStew25]

Pretty entitled for a bengals fan.

[Poet]

Pretty entitled for a bengals fan.

We're all entitled to history, Mr. Wellington.

[BeefStew25]

We're all entitled to history, Mr. Wellington.

Please list your perfect hire with OC’s. Names. Go.

[Poet]

Please list your perfect hire with OC’s. Names. Go.

I'm not doing a back and forth with you because you want to play the who a real fan is game. I'm sorry that a thought higher than "we won with him so he must be good," is so enticing to you.

I failed you, Beef. You're the victim here.

Lakers will end up a six seed, btw.

[BeefStew25]

I'm not doing a back and forth with you because you want to play the who a real fan is game. I'm sorry that a thought higher than "we won with him so he must be good," is so enticing to you.

I failed you, Beef. You're the victim here.

Lakers will end up a six seed, btw.

My broader point is I think you’d complain if we reserected Lombardi. I’m not being a better fan on this. I’m being fan police.

[Poet]

My broader point is I think you’d complain if we reserected Lombardi. I’m not being a better fan on this. I’m being fan police.

He's getting credit for accomplishments to bolster his case. If that's being done, the merits of the claim are desering. In this same thread I said I was taking Davii's approach, which is one of caution but optimism.

If I was entitled, if I thought I was deserving of a team I follow winning all the time, I doubt I'd hitch my wagon to a team coming off a SB, that was known to lose free agents because of the cap, with no QBotF, drafting a rookie QB. FFS, how many fans don't post here because we suck. At least I show up in the gameday threads and watch. At least I can name most of the roster on any given Sunday.

Considering I take the time to actually know something about the team and not just go rah-rah go Broncos...it's only fair to say I'm one of the very best fans. ;)

[Jsteve01]

See: Kyle Shanahan

Maybe i didnt explain well but in my original post i meant kyle shanahan when i said kyle. Also wade phillips rex ryan and i forget who the other guy was haha

[Poet]

Oh and all the krap about klint and nepotism is just silly. See Wade and Kyle and Rex and Elway and then tell me kids cant learn from pops

Bringing back Wade, Kubiak multiple times,..Kubiak's son...yeah, no favorites over here.

[Jsteve01]

I would have stopped this post right there. I remember the Kubiak offense in 2015-16 and it wasn't pretty. I suppose there's a possibility that something major will change and the season could turn out great, but I'll have to see it to believe it.

My response to that would be that perhaps koobs like many others is not truly a big picture guy. He benefited from having a once-in-a-lifetime defense and Wade Phillips as his defensive coordinator., but I will say this is team loved him and would go to the wall for him. As I stated in my post the original thrust was the last time we saw him as an offensive coordinator was in 2014 in Baltimore and it was the best that that team it ever seen on offense. Joe

[Poet]

Lmao you are going to mke your atand on that? Well the ladt time it gave us a superbowl in 2 seasons and a truly genrational defense....so ok.

Yeah...I'm going to make my stand on nepotism and favorites on nepotism and favorites. Nepotism doesn't always fail...I have examples but they go into P and R. Also, your mocking lmao is quite rude. I don't care for your tone, Steve. You're a rude dude with attitude and it's putting me in an Unkingly mood. :D

[TXBRONC]

I would have stopped this post right there. I remember the Kubiak offense in 2015-16 and it wasn't pretty. I suppose there's a possibility that something major will change and the season could turn out great, but I'll have to see it to believe it.

Yeah the offense of 2015 struggled because physically depleted Manning running for half the season and the playoffs.

[Jsteve01]

Lmao you are going to make your stand on that? Well the last time it gave us a superbowl in 2 seasons and a truly genrational defense....so ok.

And my point was nepotism or no. The 4 coaches i mentioned would exemplify the potential positive to employing someone who had a very good coach as a parent

[Poet]

And my point was nepotism or no. The 4 coaches i mentioned would exemplify the potential positive to employing someone who had a very good coach as a parent

Great - except nepotism isn't just limited to children. You upset me, Steve. I thought you were my dude. And you broke my heart. My diggity damn heart.

[Jsteve01]

Yeah...I'm going to make my stand on nepotism and favorites on nepotism and favorites. Nepotism doesn't always fail...I have examples but they go into P and R. Also, your mocking lmao is quite rude. I don't care for your tone, Steve. You're a rude dude with attitude and it's putting me in an Unkingly mood. :D


Youre rather sensitive tonight amigo. I never troll you, but when i style i always do it with the prerequisite evidence to back my play. The coaches i mentioned are all superb and have the numbers to back it

[Poet]

Youre rather sensitive tonight amigo. I never troll you, buy when i style i always do it with the prerequisite evidence to back my play. The coaches i mentioned are all superb and have the numbers to back it

Styling is dead, Steve. You hurt me.

Kubiak came off of a nice OC season, but nothing great. He had bombed out in Houston. He won a ring here on a stacked team, and coasted on the defense the next season. At no point did our offense ever look great, or even good under him.

Phillips was a star.

Klint Kubiak...eh...would be happier with someone who isn't the son of a coach that gets nothing but latitude here. Just don't call it what it isn't. As soon as you went "nepotism or no," the discussion was pretty much over. :salute:

[Jsteve01]

Great - except nepotism isn't just limited to children. You upset me, Steve. I thought you were my dude. And you broke my heart. My diggity damn heart.
Being your dude doesnt mean we always agree. On this we obviously do not. My point was substantiated with valid examples of coaches kids who have succeeded. Having a coach as a dad myself i can tell u that although often they get special treatment, just as often they are held to a higher standard.

[Poet]

Being your dude doesnt mean we always agree. On this we obviously do not. My point was substantiated with valid examples of coaches kids who have succeeded. Having a coach as a dad myself i can tell u that although often they get special treatment, just as often they are held to a higher standard.

You mocked me with your "LMAO," and it is one of the harshest moments in board history. Let's hope it's Shanahan Jr. and not Austin Rivers.

[Jsteve01]

Styling is dead, Steve. You hurt me.

Kubiak came off of a nice OC season, but nothing great. He had bombed out in Houston. He won a ring here on a stacked team, and coasted on the defense the next season. At no point did our offense ever look great, or even good under him.

Phillips was a star.

Klint Kubiak...eh...would be happier with someone who isn't the son of a coach that gets nothing but latitude here. Just don't call it what it isn't. As soon as you went "nepotism or no," the discussion was pretty much over. :salute:

As i previously stated. Kubes has always excelled in a coordinator role. He benefited from wade and a generational defense. Neither of which detracts from my proposition which is of course his track record at coordinator

[Jsteve01]

You mocked me with your "LMAO," and it is one of the harshest moments in board history. Let's hope it's Shanahan Jr. and not Austin Rivers.
I will edit my post to retract the lmao kinger. I value your brotherhood that much

[Poet]

I will edit my post to retract the lmao kinger. I value your brotherhood that much

I'm delicate today, Steve. I'm sorry. My heart is heavy, and not just due to clogged arteries.

[Jsteve01]

I'm delicate today, Steve. I'm sorry. My heart is heavy, and not just due to clogged arteries.
Im sorry man.

[Poet]

Im sorry man.

Let me hold you. You're beautiful.

[Jsteve01]

Let me hold you. You're beautiful.
Heavy love

[Hawgdriver]

Kubiak is not my ideal hire, but I actually have confidence in him being a value add. He's still got juice. He's like a solid 3 in a playoff team rotation. I think he's the perfect pairing with Keenum, but I'd like to see them incorporate more simulation and analysis into their prep regime once they settle on their scheme (which should begin to tilt toward what college O-linemen do best). Honestly, if they do that, this team could be a '19 SB favorite and ready to unseat KC. The defense is real (once they solve TE/ILB and get another CB).

[Dreadnought]

Kubiak is not my ideal hire, but I actually have confidence in him being a value add. He's still got juice. He's like a solid 3 in a playoff team rotation. I think he's the perfect pairing with Keenum, but I'd like to see them incorporate more simulation and analysis into their prep regime once they settle on their scheme (which should begin to tilt toward what college O-linemen do best). Honestly, if they do that, this team could be a '19 SB favorite and ready to unseat KC. The defense is real (once they solve TE/ILB and get another CB).

I'm inclined to agree. Keenum may not be optimal, but prior history says he can play well if used properly...something we absolutely did not do in 2018. Kubes may be just the right guy to do that. This being the case we can work on fixing some of the other stuff that's broken on this team (LT, ILB, CB) without wasting a first round pick on some reach at QB, or wasting even more picks to move up for a guy who is still a reach. We need another Paxton Lynch like a hole in the head

[Tned]

I'm inclined to agree. Keenum may not be optimal, but prior history says he can play well if used properly...something we absolutely did not do in 2018. Kubes may be just the right guy to do that. This being the case we can work on fixing some of the other stuff that's broken on this team (LT, ILB, CB) without wasting a first round pick on some reach at QB, or wasting even more picks to move up for a guy who is still a reach. We need another Paxton Lynch like a hole in the head

We need a high upside QB for the future. Even if Case returns to MN form next year, we really don't want him to be our future QB, even if he is the best now QB option. Beyond that, look at our backup QB. With Kelly going off the reservation and Lynch gone, we have no future QB prospect with even the hope of taking over the reigns.

I have no idea what the answer is, just pointing out the obvious problem (possibly current, but definitely future) we have at QB.

[Freyaka]

I think Kubiak can do much more for keenum then what we saw this year.

Excited to see Lindsey and Freeman in Kubiak system

I've been tooting that horn since the middle of the season.

[Valar Morghulis]

Kubiak plays to strengths, granted but he's no magician. Which is what it would take to get keenum marginally above serviceable

You need a different metric to grade kubiak, otherwise he will be deemed a miserable failure.

Keenum is that bad, he could kill kubes reputation as a good coordinator

[Cugel]

2015 - Broken down Manning

2016 - Trevor Simien

A terrible OLine

They won a Championship and had a winning record the following year

Whats the problem?

I suppose it's a question of perspective. Kubiak wasn't a terrible head coach, at least not compared with VJ.

But, the offense was pretty flat. True, having a turn-style OL and Trevor Siemian didn't help, and that was Elway's fault. But, the offensive scheme wasn't great either.

I think it's probable that Kubiak is going to have to incorporate some new concepts into his offense to take advantage of the new NFL passing rules. Problem is they don't have the QB to do that.

So, I expect the offense to be pretty much what it was this year, pedestrian and boring and low scoring. The defense could be better, we'll see.

But, unless they rebuild the OL nothing will improve. And we know Case Keenum ain't the answer - unless the question is "what are 50 ways to suck at QB?"

[Freyaka]

Kubiak plays to strengths, granted but he's no magician. Which is what it would take to get keenum marginally above serviceable

You need a different metric to grade kubiak, otherwise he will be deemed a miserable failure.

Keenum is that bad, he could kill kubes reputation as a good coordinator

He turned Joe Flacco into a QB who actually got MVP consideration...Joe Flacco... He made Justin Forcett a one year star at RB....He made Matt Fricken Schaub fool the league into thinking he was anything more than a sub par QB... I think you forget these things all because he and Manning didn't mesh well together.

[Valar Morghulis]

He turned Joe Flacco into a QB who actually got MVP consideration...Joe Flacco... He made Justin Forcett a one year star at RB....He made Matt Fricken Schaub fool the league into thinking he was anything more than a sub par QB... I think you forget these things all because he and Manning didn't mesh well together.

My post was not to damn kubiak.... It was to protect him. Keenum is worse than flacco and schaub

I never mentioned running backs

Everyone seems to be getting back on some weird keenum train because we have an OC that will roll him out of the pocket several times a game.

Keenum sucks. He had nice stats in Minnesota, but the reality is he sucked there as well. The post season was too big for him, his td record was pedestrian at best and all his other flaws were still there.

I don't think it's fair to believe kubes or anyone else is going to get anything out of him that is meaningful. Best we can hope for is to play to his limitations. Of which there are many. That's not something to form a source of optimism.

Again, this is not to decry kubes, it's to caution the willfully ignorant optimism that his return will change keenum significantly

[TXBRONC]

My post was not to damn kubiak.... It was to protect him. Keenum is worse than flacco and schaub

I never mentioned running backs

Everyone seems to be getting back on some weird keenum train because we have an OC that will roll him out of the pocket several times a game.

Keenum sucks. He had nice stats in Minnesota, but the reality is he sucked there as well. The post season was too big for him, his td record was pedestrian at best and all his other flaws were still there.

I don't think it's fair to believe kubes or anyone else is going to get anything out of him that is meaningful. Best we can hope for is to play to his limitations. Of which there are many. That's not something to form a source of optimism.

Again, this is not to decry kubes, it's to caution the willfully ignorant optimism that his return will change keenum significantly

I don't think that even with Kubiak's help that Denver will get that much more out of Keenum. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think Kubiak is going to be there for the guy who will replace Keenum.

[Freyaka]

My post was not to damn kubiak.... It was to protect him. Keenum is worse than flacco and schaub

I never mentioned running backs

Everyone seems to be getting back on some weird keenum train because we have an OC that will roll him out of the pocket several times a game.

Keenum sucks. He had nice stats in Minnesota, but the reality is he sucked there as well. The post season was too big for him, his td record was pedestrian at best and all his other flaws were still there.

I don't think it's fair to believe kubes or anyone else is going to get anything out of him that is meaningful. Best we can hope for is to play to his limitations. Of which there are many. That's not something to form a source of optimism.

Again, this is not to decry kubes, it's to caution the willfully ignorant optimism that his return will change keenum significantly

I don't think Keenum is as bad as people think he is... He's not a great QB, he's not a long term solution, but he is a QB who is above average when put in situations that move him outside the pocket. Kubiak's offense is designed around that. He will play far better in a Kubiak offense.

He's not going to make you want to abandon your desire for a better option, but he's also not going to make you want to throw your remote at your TV 2-3 times per game.

[Valar Morghulis]

I don't think Keenum is as bad as people think he is....

Well this issue means we will never agree on this matter

[TXBRONC]

Well this issue means we will never agree on this matter

I think he's a transitional player/a place holder if Keenum was really anything more than that he would have gotten a long deal than he did.

[Northman]

If you have to make so many accommodations just to get your QB to be successful than thats a huge problem. I keep seeing people say "well if you do this and this he will have success". No, just no. You want to be able to have a QB who can do things on his own, you want a QB who can make plays on his own. If you have to dumb everything down than he becomes one dimensional and that is exactly what you DONT want out of your QB. We dont want a one trick pony at the most important position on the team. Yes, i get it. Keenum will be here next year regardless but just because we have to dumb everything down for him to be successful wont mean we will have success. That is just absurd. Denver will still need to think long term and with a QB who is the total package. Keenum is definitely a place holder but we wont be going anywhere anytime soon with him at the helm, its going to be a couple of more years before this team is ready to make a playoff run.

[Freyaka]

If you have to make so many accommodations just to get your QB to be successful than thats a huge problem. I keep seeing people say "well if you do this and this he will have success". No, just no. You want to be able to have a QB who can do things on his own, you want a QB who can make plays on his own. If you have to dumb everything down than he becomes one dimensional and that is exactly what you DONT want out of your QB. We dont want a one trick pony at the most important position on the team. Yes, i get it. Keenum will be here next year regardless but just because we have to dumb everything down for him to be successful wont mean we will have success. That is just absurd. Denver will still need to think long term and with a QB who is the total package. Keenum is definitely a place holder but we wont be going anywhere anytime soon with him at the helm, its going to be a couple of more years before this team is ready to make a playoff run.

No one is trying to tout him as our now and future QB.... But he's what is here. And there are things that can and likely will be done in 2019 to make him better. That's not a ringing endorsement of him...It's just saying there are things that will make him better and Kubiak who is going to be here will help him be better...

No one is saying "don't draft a QB" Please Jesus Elway draft a QB. But Keenum will likely be here next year. It's ok to recognize that he'll be able to be functional in a Kubiak offense. That's all I'm saying...


Not sure why this is holy sacrilege to you and Val...

[Freyaka]

Apparently saying that Keenum can be salvaged for one season while we find a QB is the equivalent of kicking someone's dog.

[Valar Morghulis]

Apparently saying that Keenum can be salvaged for one season while we find a QB is the equivalent of kicking someone's dog.

Yes. It's the exact same thing.

[Northman]

No one is trying to tout him as our now and future QB.... But he's what is here. And there are things that can and likely will be done in 2019 to make him better. That's not a ringing endorsement of him...It's just saying there are things that will make him better and Kubiak who is going to be here will help him be better...

No one is saying "don't draft a QB" Please Jesus Elway draft a QB. But Keenum will likely be here next year. It's ok to recognize that he'll be able to be functional in a Kubiak offense. That's all I'm saying...


Not sure why this is holy sacrilege to you and Val...

Why you mad? If you disagree than fine. Im just laying out my own views on the guy which dont include saying "he is better than he is". To that we simply disagree and your assessment of him working best out of the pocket makes him a one dimensional QB. This is what ultimately failed Plummer as well. if you dont have a QB who can consistently throw from the pocket than that creates a huge issue for this offense no matter who the OC is. Do you really think that Denver is going to be able to substain rolling Keenum out of the pocket and not expect defenses to figure it out? And im not even sure if thats an accurate assessment anyway since this past year i saw him throw plenty of passes into the dirt and into the stands when he did roll out. Keenum is exactly who i thought he was when we signed him, he got lucky one year and rode the team around him but was unable to elevate them when it mattered most in the postseason. Im ok with Keenum being here one more year, there are no other real options at this point unless Denver wants to trade him and a pick for Foles or something. But im also going into all this with the understanding that we wont be ready to make any real push for at least another couple of years. Keenum is servicable, but he isnt "better" than we have seen. He just isnt and outside of one year his track record has proven that. But by all means, if you think he is better than knock yourself out.

[Northman]

I remember the Plummer years so vividly, early on Jake had a LOT of success with the rollouts and his biggest victim was the Chiefs which always filled me with glee. But towards the end of Jake's run i knew that his one trick pony show was coming to an end when the Chiefs simply were not falling for that rollout any longer. If Kubes has actually taken the 2 years to learn anything i hope it is more than rolling Keenum out every other play because it simply will not work if that is going to be his crutch. Even Flacco could throw from the pocket which helped when Kubes was in Bmore. If Keenum is going to have any success in Denver under Kubes he is going to have to make plays from the pocket AND from the bootleg. If he cant, than we might as well plug in a rookie or a guy like Hogan if they can do both.

[TXBRONC]

If you have to make so many accommodations just to get your QB to be successful than thats a huge problem. I keep seeing people say "well if you do this and this he will have success". No, just no. You want to be able to have a QB who can do things on his own, you want a QB who can make plays on his own. If you have to dumb everything down than he becomes one dimensional and that is exactly what you DONT want out of your QB. We dont want a one trick pony at the most important position on the team. Yes, i get it. Keenum will be here next year regardless but just because we have to dumb everything down for him to be successful wont mean we will have success. That is just absurd. Denver will still need to think long term and with a QB who is the total package. Keenum is definitely a place holder but we wont be going anywhere anytime soon with him at the helm, its going to be a couple of more years before this team is ready to make a playoff run.

It's not about Keenum, about the next guy who is probably someone that they draft.

[Northman]

It's not about Keenum, about the next guy who is probably someone that they draft.

And thats fine but if we do that than just plug that guy in and let him take his lumps now. Let Keenum ride the bench in case the young guy gets hurt or banged up.

[TXBRONC]

No one is trying to tout him as our now and future QB.... But he's what is here. And there are things that can and likely will be done in 2019 to make him better. That's not a ringing endorsement of him...It's just saying there are things that will make him better and Kubiak who is going to be here will help him be better...

No one is saying "don't draft a QB" Please Jesus Elway draft a QB. But Keenum will likely be here next year. It's ok to recognize that he'll be able to be functional in a Kubiak . offense. That's all I'm saying...


Not sure why this is holy sacrilege to you and Val...

Ok but that doesn't mean the move to Kubiak as o.c. has anything to do with Keenum or that it will make him adequate starter for entire season or that he'll even be the starter when the season kicks off.

[TXBRONC]

And thats fine but if we do that than just plug that guy in and let him take his lumps now. Let Keenum ride the bench in case the young guy gets hurt or banged up.

I agree, if it looks the guy they get far enough along to adequately handle the job. At this point not knowing whom Denver is going to draft. If we take some earlier first or second round, they might easily be the starter day one. Someone taken in the 3rd round beyond more than likely not someone who can start right away. I really hope Denver does draft someone who can immediately.

[Tned]

If you have to make so many accommodations just to get your QB to be successful than thats a huge problem. I keep seeing people say "well if you do this and this he will have success". No, just no. You want to be able to have a QB who can do things on his own, you want a QB who can make plays on his own. If you have to dumb everything down than he becomes one dimensional and that is exactly what you DONT want out of your QB. We dont want a one trick pony at the most important position on the team. Yes, i get it. Keenum will be here next year regardless but just because we have to dumb everything down for him to be successful wont mean we will have success. That is just absurd. Denver will still need to think long term and with a QB who is the total package. Keenum is definitely a place holder but we wont be going anywhere anytime soon with him at the helm, its going to be a couple of more years before this team is ready to make a playoff run.

Keenum had one good year in his career. It was always a long shot that he could duplicate (or improve) in Denver. Like you say, the Broncos need a long term answer at QB. I'm not sure they are going to find it in the first round of next year's draft, so I'm not sure where that leaves us after next year.

[dogfish]

I'm inclined to agree. Keenum may not be optimal, but prior history says he can play well if used properly...something we absolutely did not do in 2018. Kubes may be just the right guy to do that. This being the case we can work on fixing some of the other stuff that's broken on this team (LT, ILB, CB) without wasting a first round pick on some reach at QB, or wasting even more picks to move up for a guy who is still a reach. We need another Paxton Lynch like a hole in the head

don't kid yourself, old friend. . . he's a poor man's plummer. . . best case scenario, you may hide the warts for a while. . . then they'll get exposed at the worst possible moment. . . he's not a championship-level guy. . . the broncos need to draft another one, and soon. . . we don't let george foster and willie middlebrooks stop us from taking more talent at those positions, and it has to be the same way with lynch. . . i do agree with you on no first rounder this year-- but that's only because i want them to take one next year, when the class is predicted to be much stronger. . .

[NightTrainLayne]

don't kid yourself, old friend. . . he's a poor man's plummer. . . best case scenario, you may hide the warts for a while. . . then they'll get exposed at the worst possible moment. . . he's not a championship-level guy. . . the broncos need to draft another one, and soon. . . we don't let george foster and willie middlebrooks stop us from taking more talent at those positions, and it has to be the same way with lynch. . . the donkeys need to take another QB, and soon. . . i do agree with you on no first rounder this year-- but that's only because i want them to take one next year, when the class is predicted to be much stronger. . .


Unless Kyler Murray drops to us .. ..

[NightTrainLayne]

:) :)

[dogfish]

Unless Kyler Murray drops to us .. ..

hell no!

[Jsteve01]

don't kid yourself, old friend. . . he's a poor man's plummer. . . best case scenario, you may hide the warts for a while. . . then they'll get exposed at the worst possible moment. . . he's not a championship-level guy. . . the broncos need to draft another one, and soon. . . we don't let george foster and willie middlebrooks stop us from taking more talent at those positions, and it has to be the same way with lynch. . . the donkeys need to take another QB, and soon. . . i do agree with you on no first rounder this year-- but that's only because i want them to take one next year, when the class is predicted to be much stronger. . .


Unless Kyler Murray drops to us .. ..

He isnt wilson. He is 2 inches shorter and 30 lighter. And I was campaigning for Russ the year that we drafted Osweiler. So I have no aversion to small fish quarterbacks. But Wilson at least showed at Wisconsin that he could be effective from a Pro Set and with the offensive lineman that they had that were bigger than 2/3 to the offensive lines in NFL you kind of knew what you were going to get.

[Tned]

don't kid yourself, old friend. . . he's a poor man's plummer. . . best case scenario, you may hide the warts for a while. . . then they'll get exposed at the worst possible moment. . . he's not a championship-level guy. . . the broncos need to draft another one, and soon. . . we don't let george foster and willie middlebrooks stop us from taking more talent at those positions, and it has to be the same way with lynch. . . i do agree with you on no first rounder this year-- but that's only because i want them to take one next year, when the class is predicted to be much stronger. . .

I think Plummer was light years ahead of Keenum's performance.

[GEM]

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1083833447842488320

What?!?

[Freyaka]

Booo!!!

[BeefStew25]

Mods please lock

[BroncoWave]

Mods please lock

I thought you were a mod?

[BeefStew25]

I thought you were a mod?

I clocked out at five.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

So, uh /thread?

[Poet]

Now it's time to do that moon walk!

[dogfish]

wonder if elway ixnayed dennison. . .

[Buff]

wonder if elway ixnayed dennison. . .

The only thing that doesn't make sense about this theory is that surely Elway would have broached that topic in the months leading up to this if he wanted Gary back?

Or maybe they just said they'd wait until they had a HC in place to hammer out the specifics?

From a timing standpoint - it'd make more sense that Fangio was the one that intervened, since this news came out 24 hours after he was officially hired and he was pumping the brakes on the news in yesterday's press conference. (Whereas Elway has been telling everyone in the media that Gary was coming back).

[BeefStew25]

Yeah I think Vic put this in motion.

[Poet]

Yeah I think Vic put this in motion.

God bless him.

[Jsteve01]

Yeah I think Vic put this in motion.

If Dennison was going to be part of the deal than i dub him Saint Vic. I have never been able to stand Dennison I remember complaining after the Super Bowl runs about how in the world a guy who had been a horrible special teams coordinator got to take over the most important unit on our team and ruin it. Dennison has never done anything well for any team. It drives me freaking crazy

[BeefStew25]

If Dennison was going to be part of the deal than i dub him Saint Vic. I have never been able to stand Dennison I remember complaining after the Super Bowl runs about how in the world a guy who had been a horrible special teams coordinator got to take over the most important unit on our team and ruin it. Dennison has never done anything well for any team. It drives me freaking crazy

Show me on the doll where Dennison touched you.

[Poet]

Show me on the doll where Dennison touched you.

It might be fairer to ask the QB's on the team that.

[Tned]

I was trying to warm up to Kubiak being back wth all the talk of two years of him evolving his scheme, but I have to say I'm glad he isn't going to be OC.

[Poet]

I was trying to warm up to Kubiak being back wth all the talk of two years of him evolving his scheme, but I have to say I'm glad he isn't going to be OC.

I love you, Kanyeezy.

[Tned]

I love you, Kanyeezy.

Right back at ya, Kimmie. Your caboose is a bit big for my taste, but your rack makes up for it.

[Cugel]

The more I hear on the radio about the details of this supposed deal with Fangio, Kubiak and Elway about Kubiak coming back to be OC, the less sense it makes to me.

Fanzio seems to have been the deciding blow. It seems to have come down to Kubiak just assuming that he would "of course" bring back "his guys" including RICO. And Elway and Ellis were like

Elway: "Whoa! We didn't agree to that Gary! We fired that ass-clown for a reason you know! I know he's your guy and all, but we're not sure about bringing him back. What do you think about this Vic, about bringing back Rick Dennison to be one of your assistants? "

Fangio: "Well, now. I think I would like to pick my own assistants. I've been in the NFL for 30 years now and I know about everybody, and I have my own ideas about who I might like to bring on, and who to keep in their current positions. I've known Gary for years now and I feel comfortable with him coming on board as an offensive coordinator, but I think I know some candidates who might be a better fit in the offense we're trying to create than RICO. So, my gut instinct would be to say "no", I would prefer not to bring in Rick Dennison."

Elway: "Well, there you have it! 2 to 1 against the "bring back RICO plan." I'm afraid our answer to that would be a "Noooooooo. Not so much."

Kubiak: "I'm outta here!" [Exits Stage Right]

Elway: [Silence][Aside to Fangio] "Why do I get the feeling that we may have just dodged a bullet on this one?"

Fangio: "You know John? I know what you mean. I think we might just have."

Joe Ellis: "I didn't get to vote! I'm running this organization, and I should get to vote! I vote Hell NO! No-go RICO!"

Elway: "I was holding you in reserve Joe. As a trump card in case it was needed to break a tie, then I could call on you to cast the ultimate deciding vote to shoot down the RICO plan, but it wasn't even needed as it turns out."

Ellis "Hmmmnn. Yes I see. And Gary is still under contract to help us with our offensive scouting for the draft for 1 more year. Good! Glad to see you handling these things delicately John. No need to ruffle Gary's feathers any further here. We've got a draft to prepare for after all, and Gary was instrumental in our not screwing that up totally last year, unlike the steady bollocking we took in the 2015-17 drafts. Those were a real bitch!"

Elway: "Tell me about it! I screwed up soooo badly in not drafting Ramcyck! I just can't admit it publicly."

[nevcraw]

Show me on the doll where Dennison touched you.

It’s easier to show on the doll where he didn’t touch him