For the fans who wanted Quenton Nelson

[dogfish]

we weren't wrong on this guy, y'all. . . he just made first-team AP all-pro (https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2019/01/04/2018-ap-all-pro-team/38842777/), as a rookie. . . if he stays healthy, this is very likely the first installation of an annual tradition that will last a decade or more. . . dude has serious HOF potential at the least glorious position-- in an era that features the worst O-lines in the history of the sport. . .

i still wouldn't trade #55 for him. . . we made the right pick. . . i gotta acknowledge how monstrous nelson is, though. . . the thought that we should have taken a scrub like josh rosen or josh allen over this bad mofo is hysterical. . . all-pro, best in the league at a secondary position >>>>> total chump at a position of primary importance all day, err day, and twice on sundays. . . good on you, QN-- keep breakin' fools. . .

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Gotta love me some dog. :D

[Poet]

we weren't wrong on this guy, y'all. . . he just made first-team AP all-pro (https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2019/01/04/2018-ap-all-pro-team/38842777/), as a rookie. . . if he stays healthy, this is very likely the first installation of an annual tradition that will last a decade or more. . . dude has serious HOF potential at the least glorious position-- in an era that features the worst O-lines in the history of the sport. . .

i still wouldn't trade #55 for him. . . we made the right pick. . . i gotta acknowledge how monstrous nelson is, though. . . the thought that we should have taken a scrub like josh rosen or josh allen over this bad mofo is hysterical. . . all-pro, best in the league at a secondary position >>>>> total chump at a position of primary importance all day, err day, and twice on sundays. . . good on you, QN-- keep breakin' fools. . .

This post is horrible. If he didn't go to a team with a great QB he wouldn't matter.

The second part of your pick is probably one of the worst things I've ever read. Judging rookie QB's is absurd. The irony that you point to how great an OL can be while ignoring Rosen losing all starters on OL and nine different OL startin combinations, as well as two offensive coordinators in his rookie season is...sad. Any fan of the game can rattle off a glut of great QB's who were awful in their rookie season.

Your analysis is shoddy, regarding QB's and the value of a guard.

This thread gets an F-. Any person agreeing with it also gets an F-. Sometimes you guys really let me down.

[Poet]

This post is horrible. If he didn't go to a team with a great QB he wouldn't matter.

The second part of your pick is probably one of the worst things I've ever read. Judging rookie QB's is absurd. The irony that you point to how great an OL can be while ignoring Rosen losing all starters on OL and nine different OL startin combinations, as well as two offensive coordinators in his rookie season is...sad. Any fan of the game can rattle off a glut of great QB's who were awful in their rookie season.

Your analysis is shoddy, regarding QB's and the value of a guard.

This thread gets an F-. Any person agreeing with it also gets an F-. Sometimes you guys really let me down.

Being the intellectual powerhouse here and teaching logical application not just in general, but in football can really be exhausting. King87...you are superior. God I love you.

[Poet]

Being the intellectual powerhouse here and teaching logical application not just in general, but in football can really be exhausting. King87...you are superior. God I love you.

Thanks fam.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

This thread is winning.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

And it keeps on giving.

Can’t you all feel the love flowing like the mighty Congo River?

[Poet]

This thread is winning.

**** rookie QB's who suck!

Meanwhile...in the annals of time... a rookie John Elway is out there struggling...

It's embarrassing when a Denver fans says that shit, man. I just presume Dog was trying to troll me, and that he didn't shit the proverbial bed. That's actually less alarming.

[Al Wilson 4 Mayor]

Elway didn’t just struggle. :lol:

Of course we did have the 3 touchdown fourth quarter against Baltimore. Every Colts fan should be educated on the merits of that incident.

[Poet]

And it keeps on giving.

Can’t you all feel the love flowing like the mighty Congo River?

Oh King87, blessed thou art in Heaven...McRibbeth be thy name. They Kingdom Come. Oh stylish one, victory courses through thy veins. Knoweth the best course of action. Whatever or whichever it truly is. Spare these fools and those that lose. Let these suckers live.

[Poet]

Elway didn’t just struggle. :lol:

Of course we did have the 3 touchdown fourth quarter against Baltimore. Every Colts fan should be educated on the merits of that incident.

And a certain QB had two or three comeback wins.

Sometimes I just gotta shake my head at you guys. I can't coach you all up all the time. Enjoy the poorly thought out troll argument. I just wish you were better.

[dogfish]

**** rookie QB's who suck!

Meanwhile...in the annals of time... a rookie John Elway is out there struggling...

It's embarrassing when a Denver fans says that shit, man. I just presume Dog was trying to troll me, and that he didn't shit the proverbial bed. That's actually less alarming.

the game may have been just a tad different in 1983. . .

wake me up when your boy isn't complete hot garbage, though. . .

:D :welcome:

[Poet]

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[Simple Jaded]

t7Tm0SQT7N4

[MOtorboat]

Who is Quenton Nelson?

[Timmy!]

Nelson>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rosen.

Chubb was the right pick.

#stylenotneeded
#meandthefishberight
#ohlawd

[Simple Jaded]

https://thedraftnetwork.com/2018/12/30/2019-nfl-draft-play-profile-cody-ford/

[SmilinAssasSin27]

The only 2 QBs I wanted were gone by our pick. Allen would have been nauseating and I'm not a huge Rosen guy. Not against him, just didn't like him over the other 2. We lucked into Chubb and I have zero regret about him. That said, Nelson still woulda been sweet to see on this team.

[BroncoWave]

This post is horrible. If he didn't go to a team with a great QB he wouldn't matter.

The second part of your pick is probably one of the worst things I've ever read. Judging rookie QB's is absurd. The irony that you point to how great an OL can be while ignoring Rosen losing all starters on OL and nine different OL startin combinations, as well as two offensive coordinators in his rookie season is...sad. Any fan of the game can rattle off a glut of great QB's who were awful in their rookie season.

Your analysis is shoddy, regarding QB's and the value of a guard.

This thread gets an F-. Any person agreeing with it also gets an F-. Sometimes you guys really let me down.

I mean, dog posted it, so yeah.

[UnderArmour]

Honestly, as this thread implies, Nelson would have been a fantastic pick too. The economics of it though make pass rushers a better choice. Once Nelson's rookie deal expires, he'll command tackle money. It's hard to re-sign guys like Nelson because every other team wants to steal him at a traditionally lower-priced position, so boundaries get pushed. Pass rushers though? You know exactly what you're going to pay if the guy is elite, which is Miller/Suh/Mack money.

Still outrageous, but I'd rather a team spend $1 million per sack than devote $15 million APY on a Guard that no longer gets the same push anymore. Allen Faneca comes to mind.

[aberdien]

Imagine Lindsay running behind a line led by Nelson.

[UnderArmour]

Imagine Lindsay running behind a line led by Nelson.

Imagine having a defensive coordinator not scared to use the double-teams that Von commands to creatively generate pressure from other places, and a head coach that empowers him to do so.

[G_Money]

Those of us who said Nelson would be great have been right. Those who wanted Chubb have also been right about his talent.

The goal is not to be 2% more right, the goal is to get a Pro-Bowler, even an All-Pro with a top-5 pick and Chubb is on that track. Chubb in a Fangio defense would be... basically spectacular. More spectacular, if you wanna get specific. Denver's still gotta fix the OL though, while they also free Chubb and Von up to do more damage. Last year's draft (and UDFA class) looks to be a productive one. Now Elway just has to do that again, with the big uglies.

Which means he'll probably go cornerback in the first.

[Cugel]

This post is horrible. If he didn't go to a team with a great QB he wouldn't matter.

The second part of your pick is probably one of the worst things I've ever read. Judging rookie QB's is absurd. The irony that you point to how great an OL can be while ignoring Rosen losing all starters on OL and nine different OL startin combinations, as well as two offensive coordinators in his rookie season is...sad. Any fan of the game can rattle off a glut of great QB's who were awful in their rookie season.

Your analysis is shoddy, regarding QB's and the value of a guard.

This thread gets an F-. Any person agreeing with it also gets an F-. Sometimes you guys really let me down.

Seriously dude? You high fived your own post? That is just so sad. Like a boy who has a birthday party and nobody came, and he's sitting there singing "happy birthday to me!" and blowing his little paper horn alone.

[Poet]

Seriously dude? You high fived your own post? That is just so sad. Like a boy who has a birthday party and nobody came, and he's sitting there singing "happy birthday to me!" and blowing his little paper horn alone.

Usually I'm a year ahead of the curve here and by the time everyone else catches up I can't even celebrate being right. The logic displayed, and I'm being kind to call it logic, was so pathetic and so shitty I was going to take a massive shit on it. The fact that a Broncos fan would write off QB's as rookies while loving John Elway also shows some combination of absurdity, lack of historical knowledge, or just lack of decent thinking.

I simply gave the response that was warranted. The fact that it led me to just putting another person on ignore is a bonus.

[aberdien]

Seriously dude? You high fived your own post? That is just so sad. Like a boy who has a birthday party and nobody came, and he's sitting there singing "happy birthday to me!" and blowing his little paper horn alone.

You need to humble yourself and acknowledge the beauty of the self-high five.

[Simple Jaded]

High fixing yourself is lame.

[Poet]

You need to humble yourself and acknowledge the beauty of the self-high five.

Cugel is old, fam.

[Northman]

High fixing yourself is lame.

Why dont you get to stepping and fix me some dinner.

[Poet]

Old men who aren't innovative and have no style hate the self-hi-five.

The next coaching hire should bother old people, or old mentality people, who want to draft guards and just want to run the diggity damn ball all the time.

Denver has lost its nuts and dangle. Time to get them back. **** the Cowards! We march forward!

[TXBRONC]

Great, Nelson the kind of season that a lot people thought he would. I'm sure there were fans from every team in NFL that thought he was going to be great. I would have been happy to have him on the team. The guy Denver selected was seen in the same kind of light except he plays on defensive side of the ball. Congratulations to Nelson but so what?

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Great, Nelson the kind of season that a lot people thought he would. I'm sure there were fans from every team in NFL that thought he was going to be great. I would have been happy to have him on the team. The guy Denver selected was seen in the same kind of light except he plays on defensive side of the ball. Congratulations to Nelson but so what?

There is only so much to talk about right now. That's what

[Simple Jaded]

Why dont you get to stepping and fix me some dinner.

Damn!

[TXBRONC]

There is only so much to talk about right now. That's what

There are plenty of things to talk about.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I've been back in the board for 10 days. It's basically 3 discussions in 5 different threads.

[Simple Jaded]

I've been back in the board for 10 days. It's basically 3 discussions in 5 different threads.

This is when the action moves to the draft/free agent forum.

[UnderArmour]

I've been back in the board for 10 days. It's basically 3 discussions in 5 different threads.

I have so much dislike for the job that Vance Joseph did that maybe I'll make it go into 10 threads.

[dogfish]

Great, Nelson the kind of season that a lot people thought he would. I'm sure there were fans from every team in NFL that thought he was going to be great. I would have been happy to have him on the team. The guy Denver selected was seen in the same kind of light except he plays on defensive side of the ball. Congratulations to Nelson but so what?

nelson's my boy, that's what. . .

[TXBRONC]

nelson's my boy, that's what. . .

I guess this would better fit in other teams discussion forum.

[Simple Jaded]

I guess this would better fit in other teams discussion forum.

It’s relevant the way the thread title is worded.

[Cugel]

Everybody predicted Nelson would be great. He was considered the safest pick in the entire NFL draft as a "can't miss" player. He's proven to be exactly that.

But, obviously nobody just picks players by how good they are at their position without thinking about their position.

In order of difficulty in finding players: 1. QB, 2. elite pass rushing DE. 3. OT. 4. CB. 5. G or TE or S or LB or C.

That's why Cubb instead of Nelson.

[CoachChaz]

I don't think it ever came down to Nelson or Chubb. Those of us that wanted Nelson, likely said so with the assumption that Chubb would be off the board. When he was still there...it was a no brainer.

[Tbolt]

Conventional wisdom had the Browns taking Chubb. He wasn't supposed to last until our pick. We got lucky with that. Nelson is what he is, great at a position that doesn't rate a premium pick.

Also, Rosen is hot garbage. His flame out has already begun. King87 is an idiot for backing that guy. I don't care how many players were hurt, Rosen is flat out awful. Flashed nothing. The other 4 QB's all showed something, even Allen who was thought to have the highest ceiling but lowest floor. The funny thing is, Rosen was supposed to be the 'safe' QB pick. All I see is Brady Quinn.

[TXBRONC]

It’s relevant the way the thread title is worded.

I don't agree, it still nothing to do with Broncos. I won't make waves about it.

[Cugel]

Conventional wisdom had the Browns taking Chubb. He wasn't supposed to last until our pick. We got lucky with that. Nelson is what he is, great at a position that doesn't rate a premium pick.

Also, Rosen is hot garbage. His flame out has already begun. King87 is an idiot for backing that guy. I don't care how many players were hurt, Rosen is flat out awful. Flashed nothing. The other 4 QB's all showed something, even Allen who was thought to have the highest ceiling but lowest floor. The funny thing is, Rosen was supposed to be the 'safe' QB pick. All I see is Brady Quinn.

Chubb was an elite pass rushing & run stuffing DE in college which is the hardest position in the NFL to fill after QB and before LT. It's harder to find big men who are elite athletes, so there are just a lot more great CBs than DEs.

Should the Broncos have taken Josh Allen? We'll see in a couple of years. So far he's looked reasonably good. But, the Broncos had Chad Kelly at that point so they had a developmental Qb and Case Keenum was already penciled in as the starter last April and hadn't utterly sucked yet. So, they passed on a Qb.

As for Josh Rosen, he looks like hot garbage in his rookie year, but it's too early to declare him a bust after one season. Not looking good so far though.

As for Nelson he was the safest pick in the draft but plays a position that is not as important as QB, DE/DT, LT or CB. Those are the positions along with elite RB that teams will draft in the top 10.

So, it wasn't a bad move for Indy to draft Nelson since their OL was horrible for years and they have Andrew Luck to keep healthy. The Broncos just screwed up in drafting Bolles instead of Ramcyzk who now is headed to his first pro bowl.

Bolles is headed for the trash pile - or maybe he should switch to defense since he's great at tackling. :coffee:

[Simple Jaded]

They made a big deal of Trevor Lawrence doing veteran things last night, and rightfully so ... Rosen has been doing those same things since his freshman season too.

[Poet]

Wouldn't have minded making that trade that the Jets did to move up for Darnold.

[BroncoJoe]

They made a big deal of Trevor Lawrence doing veteran things last night, and rightfully so ... Rosen has been doing those same things since his freshman season too.

Did Rosen win a National Championship?

[Poet]

These people need more experience being wrong, I’m wrong all the time, it’s liberating.

We just need to heal.

[Simple Jaded]

Did Rosen win a National Championship?

Why no, Joe, he did not. But that’s not the veteran things they were pointing out.

[Simple Jaded]

Joe, did you ever win a National Championship? If not then you’re hot garbage, apparently.

[BroncoJoe]

Why no, Joe, he did not. But that’s not the veteran things they were pointing out.

Elway never won one either.

I just don't like the kid. I hope he proves me wrong.

[BroncoJoe]

Joe, did you ever win a National Championship? If not then you’re hot garbage, apparently.

Well, no Jaded. But, I do a lot of veteran things.

[Simple Jaded]

Elway never won one either.

I just don't like the kid. I hope he proves me wrong.

I don’t actually care, he’s not a Broncos so I have no skin in this ... but I love his talent and hate the blatant biases surrounding his criticism.

[BroncoJoe]

I don’t actually care, he’s not a Broncos so I have no skin in this ... but I love his talent and hate the blatant biases surrounding his criticism.

I actually have zero reason not to like him, other than he's not a Bronco.

And the fact he kind of looks like Wave. :couch:

[Simple Jaded]

You don’t have any reason to not like him but you don’t like him. Reasonable.

I bet Wave pulls all the hotties though.

[BroncoWave]

I actually have zero reason not to like him, other than he's not a Bronco.

And the fact he kind of looks like Wave. :couch:

I showed my wife a picture of him and she didn't see it.

[Simple Jaded]

I showed my wife a picture of him and she didn't see it.

Wives tell the sweetest lies.

[BroncoWave]

I bet Wave pulls all the hotties though.

At least one!

[Timmy!]

Will somebody buy King and Jaded a Rosen jersey already before they start making out?

[BroncoWave]

Will somebody buy King and Jaded a Rosen jersey already before they start making out?

Like, just one jersey for them to share?

[Simple Jaded]

Will somebody buy King and Jaded a Rosen jersey already before they start making out?

There’s enough Jaded to go around ... What are you wearing?

[Poet]

Like, just one jersey for them to share?

This seems flawed. Heavily flawed.

[BroncoJoe]

You don’t have any reason to not like him but you don’t like him. Reasonable.

I bet Wave pulls all the hotties though.

I have my reasons. Just not reasonable.

As to wave....

[Poet]

Nelson would have been dope if we had a QB.

He will be a great guard, one of the best ever. But the best guard ever barely fits in the top 100 players of all time. At least when you rank position impact. Or, in other words, Kyle Long is one of the best players in the league when he's healthy. Next to Mack, he's Chicago's best player, or at least was before the injuries piled up.

He's about their 8th most important player.

[Ziggy]

I'm a little late jumping in here but if you want to see how the Nelson hype unfolded during the pre-draft process, here's good thread to look through. I'll be putting up the second installment of safest pick in the draft sometime today.

http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php/607468-The-Safest-Pick-in-the-2018-NFL-Draft?highlight=safest+pick

[Freyaka]

I'd still rather have Chubb...

[Ziggy]

I'd still rather have Chubb...

If both stay healthy, Nelson will be a hall of famer. Chubb may or may not be, but there's far more of a premium on his position. Both look to be great picks early on.

[Freyaka]

If both stay healthy, Nelson will be a hall of famer. Chubb may or may not be, but there's far more of a premium on his position. Both look to be great picks early on.

I'd have been ok with either, but one is a Bronco, the other isn't. I hate playing the "oh man, we could have had this player game" Chubb's a Bronco, as a Bronco, unless he's a total pile of garbage, I will support him. Nate "Celebration Station" Webster comes to mind....screw that guy!

[TXBRONC]

If both stay healthy, Nelson will be a hall of famer. Chubb may or may not be, but there's far more of a premium on his position. Both look to be great picks early on.

If Chubb plays at this level for another 10 years I have very little doubt he'll be in the Hall of Fame too.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

I’ve just got to say because this thread keeps popping up - I watched the KC/Indy playoff game and Nelson was completely ineffective. KC put tons of pressure on Luck and they just brought the pressure around him. I saw several plays where he blocked absolutely nobody, stood there with his hands out like a traffic cop because they chose to overload the other side, then he didn’t even help out the tackle on his side so Luck got hit.

Several times when they did line up on him square, the DT would drive him into the pocket like he was Max Garcia or something. I didn’t watch any Indy games except this one this year, but I will say that I wasn’t impressed by him at all and it more than solidified the decision to take Chubb over him in my mind. He might be a HOFer some day, but if you can just occupy him with your worst Dlinemen and rush the other gaps with your better ones, you can completely neutralize him.

Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if he was an all pro based more on name recognition than skill. Like Mike Iupati who was the other most hyped guard ever and was/is just okay at Guard but got lots of name recognition and problem/all pro nods thanks to the Mayocks and Kipers of the world. I know most wont agree with me, but it is what it is.

[Nomad]

So...you're saying he is not perfect, and played like a rookie in a big game. :coffee: I guess those excuses are only good for QBs.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

So...you're saying he is not perfect, and played like a rookie in a big game. :coffee: I guess those excuses are only good for QBs.

No, I’m saying I don’t get the love and adoration for him. Especially because he’s a non-Bronco in the Broncos Talk forum. This should’ve been in the other teams forum to start with. People want to act like he is the reason for Indy’s turnaround. Let’s be honest here, Indy’s turnaround was because Luck came back, not because they drafted a guard with the #6 overall pick. Indy’s record would’ve been the same with or without Nelson.

[Nomad]

No, I’m saying I don’t get the love and adoration for him. Especially because he’s a non-Bronco in the Broncos Talk forum. People want to act like he is the reason for Indy’s turnaround. Let’s be honest here, Indy’s turnaround was because Luck came back, not because they drafted a guard with the #6 overall pick. Indy’s record would’ve been the same with or without Nelson.

I haven't read where he is the sole reason for Indy's success. As Ziggy stated, some believed he would have been a great/safe pick, and his body of work over the season proved right. Rookie All Pro.....you can't dismiss that. I haven't read where anyone said, "I wish I had Nelson over Chubb." I would say their HC is the reason for the turnaround.

[Nomad]

HP....Luck did a hell of a job, and I'm not discounting him. It's a combination of things that the Colts had the significant turnaround this year. I don't love Nelson, but knew he would be a difference maker with his talent, and make everyone around him better. Colts are gonna be really good in years to come, if Reich keeps them on this path. Here's an article to describe their season....... https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jan/13/colts-plan-to-build-off-foundation-from-historic-t/

As far as why this is in Broncos Talk, I don't know.

[Cugel]

Nelson would have been dope if we had a QB.

He will be a great guard, one of the best ever. But the best guard ever barely fits in the top 100 players of all time. At least when you rank position impact. Or, in other words, Kyle Long is one of the best players in the league when he's healthy. Next to Mack, he's Chicago's best player, or at least was before the injuries piled up.

He's about their 8th most important player.

This is basically true, but as the Colts found out, having drafted a great QB in Luck does no good if he's constantly on IR because your OL is crappo. They finally figured that out and their offense was vastly improved in consequence.

"The Broncos OL has been not good for the last 10 years." -- Mark Schlereth.

They drafted Bolles instead of Ramczyk who is starting in the NFC Championship game this weekend. They drafted Ty Sambrailo who flamed out. Aside from that it's been and endless succession of trying to get better play out of a series of misfits and castoff OL because they were always chasing other areas of weakness.

This year they finally signed Mike Munchak who is one of the top OL coaches in the NFL, but he's going to need some decent players to go along with.

They need to decide whether to re-sign Matt Paradis, and we don't even know if Paradis wants to return to a rebuilding team. The rest of the OL is forgettable and replaceable. Bolles has regressed in his second season, and his 12 penalties helped mightily in contributing to the Broncos OL being among the most heavily penalized units in football. He's got to cut that out. The second most penalized Broncos OL? Connor McGovern with 4 holding calls. That's not good, but pales in comparison to Bolles, the tackling machine.

We'll see if Munchak can improve this bunch, but he's highly regarded all over the league as a great OL coach so we'll see.

[Cugel]

If Chubb plays at this level for another 10 years I have very little doubt he'll be in the Hall of Fame too.

That is true. And it would allow them to trade Von Miller next off-season if they need to move up and get a franchise QB in the top 5 when there will be multiple candidates.

[Freyaka]

That is true. And it would allow them to trade Von Miller next off-season if they need to move up and get a franchise QB in the top 5 when there will be multiple candidates.

Alright DMAC....

[Elevation inc]

That is true. And it would allow them to trade Von Miller next off-season if they need to move up and get a franchise QB in the top 5 when there will be multiple candidates.

Lol we haven't even played next year and were already planning for next years draft in the top 5, I love the craziness of the off-season....

[TXBRONC]

That is true. And it would allow them to trade Von Miller next off-season if they need to move up and get a franchise QB in the top 5 when there will be multiple candidates.

No.

[Freyaka]

No.

As bad Cugel takes go...this was right up there.

[Cugel]

Alright DMAC....

I sent DMAC a text in which I stated that it was only due to his "painful imbecility" that he favored trading Von Miller to move up in the draft. He wants to do that THIS YEAR!

There's no Andrew Luck in this draft. Von Miller for a QB who might turn out to be the next Andrew Luck, or Pat Mahomes, or perhaps Jared Goff or Carson Wentz? Yes. That would be worth trading Von if you get a QB who can compete with Mahomes in this division.

The Broncos need that next great QB or we will become the New York Jets or Buffalo Bills or Miami Dolphins of the AFC West. We'll be trapped in a division where KC is winning 12 games every year like Brady does for the Patriots and you barely have sniffed a division title since before Janet Jackson led the best SB halftime show ever!

Think about what the Broncos fate will be if Mahomes actually IMPROVES over his rookie season. Most QBs do get better with experience. Are you telling me he can't? That he's had his career season in his very first NFL season?

Cause I'm not buying that. As much as I hate the Chefs I am impressed with Mahomes' play and I really don't like it. It's not right that the Chefs should have a great QB.

To avoid the fate of Buffalo or the Jets or Dolphins would be worth it. They acquire a top 10 pick and package that with their other #1 pick to move up to the first or second pick of the draft and get a franchise QB? Yes. I'd do that.

To do that THIS year when there's no true QB prospect worth that top 10 pick? Hell no!

[Cugel]

Are you guys going to tell me that right now you wouldn't trade Von Miller for Jared Goff or Carson Wentz or Andrew Luck or Pat Mahomes? Any of them for Von? Yes. Yes, I would definitely do that since QB is so important.

IF you would trade for one of those guys, then you should be willing to trade for a draft pick to select the next Goff or Wentz or Mahomes. If you are convinced he's in the 2020 draft then it damn well better be the Broncos who gets him!

[Poet]

The thing with Goff is that he struggles without his running game and has the second best offensive coach in the game today. We might not be getting what we see on TV. Von Miller for Mahomes would be wonderful for us.

[Nomad]

Von Miller is a Bronco. I want him to remain a Bronco.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

No way I want Wentz.

And proven commodity vs confidence in a draft pick is a huge difference.

[Nomad]

No way I want Wentz.

And proven commodity vs confidence in a draft pick is a huge difference.

You wonder if he can play a whole season healthy.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

You wonder if he can play a whole season healthy.

I do

[Poet]

Nelson really carried the Colts to...shit that was almost all Andrew Luck. And then they...lost because....of Andrew Luck...

****! Guards are so impactful!

[Nomad]

Nelson really carried the Colts to...shit that was almost all Andrew Luck. And then they...lost because....of Andrew Luck...

****! Guards are so impactful!

Nelson made a huge impact creating an oline that wouldn't get Luck killed, and plenty of time for Luck's outstanding passing rating.. Keep trying to dismiss him, King.

[Poet]

Nelson made a huge impact creating an oline that wouldn't get Luck killed, and plenty of time for Luck's outstanding passing rating.. Keep trying to dismiss him, King.

Put him on the Jaguars and then how much does he matter? That's the point - he's a tertiary piece. Always will be. He can be the best guard in the league and still will be less impactful than just an above average LT.

I've no doubt he's going to be a great player. He probably IS the best guard...but he's a guard. Guards don't win games.

[Nomad]

I bet Mike McGlinchey misses his counterpart that made him better than what he is.

[Nomad]

Nelson > Rosen......that is all.

[Poet]

I bet Mike McGlinchey misses his counterpart that made him better than what he is.

What does Nelson, people who like Nelson, exercise, snow, and Tom Brady all have in common?

[Poet]

Nelson > Rosen......that is all.

Valid points about football > a rude Uncle who likes to troll :D

[TXBRONC]

As bad Cugel takes go...this was right up there.

We all have bad takes from time to time. Some more than others but nevertheless we all have them. :nod:

[Poet]

Guards don't win playoff games.

Big time QB's do.

**** you Nelson! :lol:

[Cugel]

No way I want Wentz.

And proven commodity vs confidence in a draft pick is a huge difference.

I have to laugh. That's a pure fan, no sense at all.

Obviously the Rams would never consider trading Goff, but if some huge brain seizure struck Les Snead and the Rams decided to trade Goff, or if Eagles GM Howie Roseman went insane and decided to trade Wentz, then John Elway would swallow hard and trade Von Miller in an instant.

It would never happen. QB > LB in this league.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I have to laugh. That's a pure fan, no sense at all.

Obviously the Rams would never consider trading Goff, but if some huge brain seizure struck Les Snead and the Rams decided to trade Goff, or if Eagles GM Howie Roseman went insane and decided to trade Wentz, then John Elway would swallow hard and trade Von Miller in an instant.

It would never happen. QB > LB in this league.

Has zero to do with fandom. Has everything to do with the value of the assets in question. Von is known commodity. You don't deal that for hopes and dreams. I personally don't like Wentz's inability to stay on the field. Our asset generally stays healthy and dominates. The other is oft injured and was easily replaceable by a subpar player

But feel free to keep laughing

[Poet]

Has zero to do with fandom. Has everything to do with the value of the assets in question. Von is known commodity. You don't deal that for hopes and dreams. I personally don't like Wentz's inability to stay on the field. Our asset generally stays healthy and dominates. The other is oft injured and was easily replaceable by a subpar player

But feel free to keep laughing

I don' think Wentz is a hope and dream. And even if he is, it's not in totality. And a known commodity sometimes has less potential in context. Even an above average QB is doing more for a team than an elite defensive player. And at worst Wentz is an above average QB.

[Nomad]

All Pro Quetin Nelson.....congrats.

[Poet]

All Pro Quetin Nelson.....congrats.

If we drafted him I was going to buy you his jersey. I know you love him.

[Nomad]

If we drafted him I was going to buy you his jersey. I know you love him.

I love him even more since you hate him. :D

[Poet]

I love him even more since you hate him. :D

That was a given. I bet you'd like it if he punched me. :lol:

[Nomad]

That was a given. I bet you'd like it if he punched me. :lol:

no. I would never wish harm upon you.

[Poet]

no. I would never wish harm upon you.

You should - I'm a garbage man...wait...that's not my occupation. You know what I mean.

But we're celebrating tonight!

[UnderArmour]

They ought to give Nelson OROY over Baker and Barkley. I doubt it happens though.

Elway was never going to take Nelson, even if the Browns had taken Chubb at 4. I think even absent the trading partner in Buffalo, Elway would have gone with Ward over Nelson. It's even possible Elway had Mike McGlinchey above Nelson on his board.

[Freyaka]

Are you guys going to tell me that right now you wouldn't trade Von Miller for Jared Goff or Carson Wentz or Andrew Luck or Pat Mahomes? Any of them for Von? Yes. Yes, I would definitely do that since QB is so important.

IF you would trade for one of those guys, then you should be willing to trade for a draft pick to select the next Goff or Wentz or Mahomes. If you are convinced he's in the 2020 draft then it damn well better be the Broncos who gets him!

That's not the way it works... Von Miller is a known quantity... Goff, Wentz, Luck, Mahomes, they are all known quantities as well. The "next Goff, Wentz, ect..." is a crapshoot. You could draft a QB every year for the next 20 years with the top draft pick and your choice of every QB and never find them...

No chance in hell I'd trade miller for anything less than a PROVEN star and even then I wouldn't trade Von.

[DenBronx]

How in the hell did this thread gain so much steam?

Would anyone actually rather have Nelson over Chubb?

[UnderArmour]

How in the hell did this thread gain so much steam?

Would anyone actually rather have Nelson over Chubb?

It's the offseason, so that's why. Consensus was nobody really wanted Nelson over Chubb, rather the point of the thread was that Nelson warranted the draft value.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I don' think Wentz is a hope and dream. And even if he is, it's not in totality. And a known commodity sometimes has less potential in context. Even an above average QB is doing more for a team than an elite defensive player. And at worst Wentz is an above average QB.

Draft picks man. Draft picks.

[Poet]

Draft picks man. Draft picks.

Also positional value. The best player in a draft could be a kicker, no one should be drafting that highly. I just watched the four top scoring offenses make the championship games. One of them has a dominant defensive player. All of them have QB's. In fact, two teams had wiley veterans and two teams had young upstarts.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Also positional value. The best player in a draft could be a kicker, no one should be drafting that highly. I just watched the four top scoring offenses make the championship games. One of them has a dominant defensive player. All of them have QB's. In fact, two teams had wiley veterans and two teams had young upstarts.

So you would deal Von for a pick?

[Poet]

So you would deal Von for a pick?

Oh, multiple. But above I think Cugel was talking about swapping for someone like Wentz. Which we would be crazy to not do.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Oh, multiple. But above I think Cugel was talking about swapping for someone like Wentz. Which we would be crazy to not do.

My initial comment was a response to the idea of Wentz or a high pick.

No to Wentz due to inability to stay healthy

No to a top pick which is a hope and a dream

[BroncoWave]

If we were offered Wentz for Von straight up, it would be really difficult to say no. I love Von and want him to retire a bronco, but every player has a price, and that would be a tempting offer.

[Poet]

My initial comment was a response to the idea of Wentz or a high pick.

No to Wentz due to inability to stay healthy

No to a top pick which is a hope and a dream

Well, Wentz is a great QB and defense isn't doing it in this league, and we aren't getting to the playoffs with Von....

If you can't nail down top draft picks the problem isn't with the picks its the front office. Ironically, everyone last year was telling me how we shouldn't take QBs because there were so many great draft picks who were surefire. This year I'm already hearing how we shouldn't take a QB (from some posters) because of all the great defensive talent. Then it somehow turns into hopes and dreams with picks.

More so than ever, it is a QB driven league. No steps to deal with a lack of QB = sad times.

[Nomad]

Speaking of Wentz......I saw this coming when he took a seat, and Foles started playing again. https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/01/21/unnamed-eagles-begin-to-push-back-against-carson-wentz/

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I don't think it's as simple as you want it to be. The top defenses also made it into the playoffs and both games yesterday needed OT to reach the #s you referenced. The first 2 rounds saw some good D and the 4 teams who moved on had been rested. In this area of offensive friendly rules, I don't think 25 points is a high # st all. If not for a tipped FG...Chicago would have made things very interesting. Much like Philly did.

[Poet]

Speaking of Wentz......I saw this coming when he took a seat, and Foles started playing again. https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/01/21/unnamed-eagles-begin-to-push-back-against-carson-wentz/

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25817202/philadelphia-eagles-defend-carson-wentz-report-selfish-qb

They always want to tear down a bright young star.

[Poet]

I don't think it's as simple as you want it to be. The top defenses also made it into the playoffs and both games needed OT to reach the #s you referenced. In this area of offensive friendly rules, I don't think 25 points is a high # st all.

The Rams had an average defense. The Patriots defense was mocked for most of the year. The Bears lost. The vaunted Eagles defense lost. Of course one entire side of the ball is important, and of course scoring went down some in the playoffs like it always does. But I sure do see huge offensive numbers. I sure do see elite QB play. I sure do see rules favoring the defense. I sure do see every indication that offense is the way of the NFL.

[Nomad]

That's not the way it works... Von Miller is a known quantity... Goff, Wentz, Luck, Mahomes, they are all known quantities as well. The "next Goff, Wentz, ect..." is a crapshoot. You could draft a QB every year for the next 20 years with the top draft pick and your choice of every QB and never find them...

No chance in hell I'd trade miller for anything less than a PROVEN star and even then I wouldn't trade Von.

As we witnessed yesterday, a strong defense keeps a Mahommes & a Brees in check. Granted.....NO got robbed, they still had a chance to win the game. But, the Rams defense came through. Same could be said for the Patriots. There were no shootouts, though they do look good in the regular season.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

13595
13595

[Poet]

As we witnessed yesterday, a strong defense keeps a Mahommes & a Brees in check. Granted.....NO got robbed, they still had a chance to win the game. But, the Rams defense came through. Same could be said for the Patriots. There were no shootouts, though they do look good in the regular season.

The Chiefs scored 30 points after a bad first half. The bad first half was more about a young QB being lost than a great Patriots defense. The Rams scored 26 points. The average winning score in the NFL for a winning team is 29 points. In the playoffs. Where defenses were allowed to play yesterday.

Embrace the evolution of the game.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Aside from last week's AFC games...this whole playoffs has shown strong D. Didn't NE get 14 points after a game losing INT? A Michael Dean Perry moment is the only thing that got NE to the 25 point total you referenced.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

The Chiefs scored 30 points after a bad first half. The bad first half was more about a young QB being lost than a great Patriots defense. The Rams scored 26 points. The average winning score in the NFL for a winning team is 29 points. In the playoffs. Where defenses were allowed to play yesterday.

Embrace the evolution of the game.

So when scoring is down....its poor O, not good D? I'm done. You can't help but make excuses for any points against your made up arguments

[Poet]

So when scoring is down....its poor O, not good D? I'm done. You can't help but make excuses for any points against your made up arguments

It's well known that scoring goes down in the playoffs a tad. Usually it's higher than three points. Do a thought exercise here - if great offenses sometimes have a drop in scoring (one game with LA and NO but not KC and NE) that is about a FG, how worse do you think it would be for teams with bad offenses?

Several times in both games the announcers noted that the refs were really letting the teams play. What does that tell you? The rules get relaxed on defense a bit. If you want to chalk that up to improved defense, go ahead. The logic doesn't follow.

[Poet]

Aside from last week's AFC games...this whole playoffs has shown strong D. Didn't NE get 14 points after a game losing INT? A Michael Dean Perry moment is the only thing that got NE to the 25 point total you referenced.

So aside from about half the games?

Let's see here - The Chiefs scored 31 points against the Colts, a team lauded for defense. The Rams dropped 30 on the Cowboys, a team lauded for it's defense. The Patriots dropped 41 against the Chargers. And the Saints played a rough game and only had 20 points, and had a rough game last night and only had 23. The Chiefs and the Patriots lit up the scoreboard.

[TXBRONC]

I agree with SA. It's not that Wentz doesn't have talent, but it would be foolish to trade Von for quarterback can't stay healthy. His talent doesn't do you bit a good if he ends up missing huge portions of the season.

[Nomad]

I agree with SA. It's not that Wentz doesn't have talent, but it would be foolish to trade Von for quarterback can't stay healthy. His talent doesn't do you bit a good if he ends up missing huge portions of the season.

You at the link from PFT on the other page, the Eagles locker room agrees.

[BroncoWave]

You at the link from PFT on the other page, the Eagles locker room agrees.

I don't really put a lot of stock into anonymous quotes. For all we know, those were from players who didn't feel like they were getting the ball from him enough or something.

[Poet]

I don't really put a lot of stock into anonymous quotes. For all we know, those were from players who didn't feel like they were getting the ball from him enough or something.

The fact that team leaders instantly spoke out here pretty much kabooshes the point. The fact that the Eagles are picking Wentz is telling, too.

[TXBRONC]

The fact that team leaders instantly spoke out here pretty much kabooshes the point. The fact that the Eagles are picking Wentz is telling, too.

Yeah it tells you the Eagles have quite a bit invented a top five pick they took just a few short years ago.

[Poet]

Yeah it tells you the Eagles have quite a bit invented a top five pick they took just a few short years ago.

A guy who was leading the MVP charge and came back and was having a damn fine season. That team is about winning - if they thought Wentz wasnt' the best route they'd take action.

BUt it's a gooooooooooood daaaaaaaaaaay baaaaaaaaaaaaaaby!

[Nomad]

The fact that team leaders instantly spoke out here pretty much kabooshes the point. The fact that the Eagles are picking Wentz is telling, too.

It doesn't take a genius to know Eagles have many dollars invested into Wentz, and no other team would take on that contract. Eagles just better hope they find a solid backup at QB. Foles may flop the next team he goes to, but he knows that Eagles playbook, and plays at the next level for them. Wake me when Wentz gets to that point.

[BroncoWave]

Imagine some anonymous broncos players came out against Von. Would you guys suddenly be screaming "trade Von!", or would you just dismiss them as bad teammates/cowards? Ultimately, if you already liked or disliked a player, something like this isn't going to change your mind. You'll just use it to affirm the narrative you already believe in.

[TXBRONC]

A guy who was leading the MVP charge and came back and was having a damn fine season. That team is about winning - if they thought Wentz wasnt' the best route they'd take action.

BUt it's a gooooooooooood daaaaaaaaaaay baaaaaaaaaaaaaaby!

Ok and that in no way invalidates my point.

[BroncoJoe]

You could argue, probably successfully, that the Broncos got to and won SB50 because of Von.

Elite defensive players CAN and have win SB's for their teams.

[Nomad]

Isn't that why there is a conversation about Wentz in Broncos Talk, because some fans would entertain a trade of a SB MVP/ALL PRO/Team Captain Von Miller for an 'almost MVP' can't stay healthy QB? Granted, Wentz's 2017 season was going great, but I don't believe he'll be that same QB because of health issues that will plague him.

[Nomad]

King....Wentz needs someone like Quetin Nelson blocking for him. :D

[TXBRONC]

It doesn't take a genius to know Eagles have many dollars invested into Wentz, and no other team would take on that contract. Eagles just better hope they find a solid backup at QB. Foles may flop the next team he goes to, but he knows that Eagles playbook, and plays at the next level for them. Wake me when Wentz gets to that point.

There are several things that are true.

One, Wentz has talent and has shown he can play in this League when healthy but that's the problem he hasn't been able to stay healthy.

Two, he was a top five pick just three years go so the Eagles have quite a bit invested in him so their not going to give up on him.

Three, even setting aside the monetary investment have in Wentz a lot of teams won't trade a known commodity like a Von Miller for a guy who has yet to prove he stay on the field.

Four, as much of a quiche as it is "a player's best ability is his availability" is still accurate.

[Poet]

King....Wentz needs someone like Quetin Nelson blocking for him. :D

I love this post.

[Cugel]

I agree with SA. It's not that Wentz doesn't have talent, but it would be foolish to trade Von for quarterback can't stay healthy. His talent doesn't do you bit a good if he ends up missing huge portions of the season.

Well, don't worry about it, because the Eagles would never trade Wentz for anybody, including Von, so it won't happen.

[TXBRONC]

Well, don't worry about it, because the Eagles would never trade Wentz for anybody, including Von, so it won't happen.

I'm not worried in at all.