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DenBronx
01-04-2019, 07:25 PM
Are we not going to talk about this?


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2813968-john-elway-says-broncos-might-explore-potential-von-miller-trade-in-offseason

John Elway Says Broncos Might Explore Potential Von Miller Trade in Offseason
MIKE CHIARI
JANUARY 4, 2019

DENVER, CO - DECEMBER 15: Von Miller #58 of the Denver Broncos in action during the game against the Cleveland Browns at Broncos Stadium at Mile High on December 15, 2018 in Denver, Colorado. The Browns defeated the Broncos 17-16. (Photo by Rob Leiter via Getty Images)
Rob Leiter/Getty Images
Denver Broncos general manager John Elway isn't ruling out the possibility of trading superstar pass-rusher Von Miller this offseason.

According to Jon Heath of USA Today's Broncos Wire, Elway didn't label Miller as untouchable when asked about potentially trading him during the team's end-of-season press conference: "I think we're going to visit all that. I think we have to look at all the possibilities and get an evaluation of that."

Miller enjoyed one of the best seasons of his career in 2018 with 48 tackles, 14.5 sacks, four forced fumbles and one interception en route to being named a Pro Bowler and Second Team All-Pro.

DenBronx
01-04-2019, 07:30 PM
For the record, I think this would be a nail in the coffin for Elway. Miller is a once in a generation player that few teams get a chance to have. I do not like this move and I think if Elway does this the fan base would be more divided then the Plummer/Cutler wars.

We are not the raiders. You don’t trade a star pass rusher for a draft pick. Only trade that would make sense is a straight up trade for Aaron Rogers. Anything else is dumb.


Also Von Millers mom just let Elway have it on Twitter.

13498

Poet
01-04-2019, 07:36 PM
Elway doesn't want a real rebuild, is the assumption we're going off of because he's said so, but that was a year ago. So, assume that's still true and it would probably take a massive haul for Von. One so big no team would actually send.

Assume it's not true, then we are doing a full blown rebuild.

Splendid. Hope the haul is enough.

Davii
01-04-2019, 08:02 PM
If Elway were to trade Miller for anything short of a top 5 QB in the game (not draft, top 5 in the league) he'd be a fool and it might precipitate his departure.

FanInAZ
01-04-2019, 08:17 PM
Or maybe Elway doesn't want to make any statements that would aid other teams by giving them a shred of even the most inconsequential intel. If I was Elway, I'd love if I could dupe Gruden waist his time trying to figure out to make something happen that I know for a fact isn't going to happen. I'd also take Von aside to explain what I'm up to & why. Then I'd swear him to secrecy about the whole matter. But nothing that I just type will be given serious consideration by anyone who's turned anti-Elway because they'd rather focus on inventing evidence supporting their desire to get rid of him.

aberdien
01-04-2019, 08:54 PM
https://media1.tenor.com/images/ddb6775cb26a90894315ae71c0c3ea95/tenor.gif?itemid=4470750

Poet
01-04-2019, 08:57 PM
https://media1.tenor.com/images/ddb6775cb26a90894315ae71c0c3ea95/tenor.gif?itemid=4470750

We rebuilding and he's going to be on the decline, albeit a slow one.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-04-2019, 09:06 PM
Much ado about nothing. Zero indication that ne wants to deal him. People just pulled what would make a good story amd ran with it. "Anyone is tradable and we always look to improve" is coach speak 101.

Hawgdriver
01-04-2019, 09:09 PM
Mama Von pissed! She's got some points, too.

But you only trade Von if it's objectively best for the team, and even then, it should be slightly better than that because Von is awesome to have on your team.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-04-2019, 09:11 PM
This is the most overblown bullshit load of gotcha reporting I’ve seen. End of year presser they ask about trading Von... why? 100% clickbait. Unless Elway immediately says, “no ******* way!!!”, something no GM in the league who has half a brain says, he’s immediately the villain. Elway said “we’ll look at everything”. He didn’t say, “we’re looking to move Von” but that’s how people are writing it and now Von’s mom is talking shit on Twitter.

Why would we trade Von? We have plenty of cap space, we have the #10 overall pick, and nobody is gonna trade a top QB in their prime for him - I’m talking Andrew Luck (the only thing that would be if equal value). It just won’t happen. But now the media jackasses feel the need to stir up shit for no reason and start trade rumors when none exist. It pisses me off. I can guarantee that Elway isn’t seriously considering trading Von but he can’t say that, either. No GM deals in absolutes.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-04-2019, 09:14 PM
This is the most overblown bullshit load of gotcha reporting I’ve seen. End of year presser they ask about trading Von... why? 100% clickbait. Unless Elway immediately says, “no ******* way!!!”, something no GM in the league who has half a brain says, he’s immediately the villain. Elway said “we’ll look at everything”. He didn’t say, “we’re looking to move Von” but that’s how people are writing it and now Von’s mom is talking shit on Twitter.

Why would we trade Von? We have plenty of cap space, we have the #10 overall pick, and nobody is gonna trade a top QB in their prime for him - I’m talking Andrew Luck (the only thing that would be if equal value). It just won’t happen. But now the media jackasses feel the need to stir up shit for no reason and start trade rumors when none exist. It pisses me off. I can guarantee that Elway isn’t seriously considering trading Von but he can’t say that, either. No GM deals in absolutes.

Therefore...no GMs are Sith.

Nomad
01-04-2019, 09:23 PM
Sucks to hear the Broncos are entertaining this. Von is the face of the Broncos.

aberdien
01-04-2019, 09:37 PM
Von Miller’s mom isn’t happy with John Elway
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/01/04/von-millers-mom-isnt-happy-with-john-elway/


“I think we’re going to visit all that,” Elway said. “I think we have to look all the possibilities and get an evaluation of that. One thing that has to happen is we have to play better. Our great players have to play better, too. Again, when we’re going around and trying to assess blame — which we don’t, we’re trying to find solutions not assess blame. We’re trying to evaluate what went on and then find solutions. One of the solutions is that we’re going to need our core guys to play better. Von, he had a good year this year. Can Von play better? Yeah, I think Von can play better. That’s part of the new thing when that comes in with the next coach.”

Wrote Miller’s mom in response on Instagram: “Not because he’s my Son but, he’s the main reason Denver won the Super Bowl. Von’s NOT the problem the problem is Elway … EVERY QB he’s brought in was a fluke!! He wants to halfass pay the vets but wants them to perform at a high caliber. He has no clue on drafting at any position. He needs to work on an offensive line & QB. Trading Von isn’t the answer but best of luck with that. Elway has wasted more money on QBs than ANY TEAM IN THE NFL. I get it it’s easier to blame Von but it’s NOT HIM. #WhatupDallas #SendJerryJobysNumber.”

Von’s father spoke to Klis about the situation.

“We would much rather Von spend the rest of his career in Denver, but we don’t have any control over it. And his mom feels the same way. With all honesty, we’re Denver fans for life. We’re Denver parents for life. But that’s the only control we have.”

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-04-2019, 10:32 PM
People though the Cowboys were crazy for trading Walker.
Von will be thirty this year. Are his best days behind him? How many elite years does he have left, 2-3?
I don’t want to see Von traded, but when you’re 6-10 you can’t take chips off the table, especially if they’re not quarterbacks and they’re 30. If someone wants to make the offer of a lifetime you at least listen to the offer..
We just remodeled our great room and we love it. We’ve talked about retiring in this house and spending our golden years here, but if someone offered me 10% more than what it was worth I would listen to the offer.
Elway is no dummy. He didn’t say Von was on the trading block. He said, guess what we suck! Nothing is off the table and Von isn’t a 30 year old quarterback, he’s a 30 year old linebacker. Most linebackers are done by the age of 30-32.

Poet
01-04-2019, 10:41 PM
People though the Cowboys were crazy for trading Walker.
Von will be thirty this year. Are his best days behind him? How many elite years does he have left, 2-3?
I don’t want to see Von traded, but when you’re 6-10 you can’t take chips off the table, especially if they’re not quarterbacks and they’re 30. If someone wants to make the offer of a lifetime you at least listen to the offer..
We just remodeled our great room and we love it. We’ve talked about retiring in this house and spending our golden years here, but if someone offered me 10% more than what it was worth I would listen to the offer.
Elway is no dummy. He didn’t say Von was on the trading block. He said, guess what we suck! Noting is off the table and Von isn’t a 30 year old quarterback, he’s a 30 year old linebacker. Most linebackers are done by the age of 30-32.

If we didn't take two firsts for him, maybe a second or two, we'd be negligent.

Northman
01-04-2019, 10:42 PM
This is the most overblown bullshit load of gotcha reporting I’ve seen. End of year presser they ask about trading Von... why? 100% clickbait. Unless Elway immediately says, “no ******* way!!!”, something no GM in the league who has half a brain says, he’s immediately the villain. Elway said “we’ll look at everything”. He didn’t say, “we’re looking to move Von” but that’s how people are writing it and now Von’s mom is talking shit on Twitter.

Why would we trade Von? We have plenty of cap space, we have the #10 overall pick, and nobody is gonna trade a top QB in their prime for him - I’m talking Andrew Luck (the only thing that would be if equal value). It just won’t happen. But now the media jackasses feel the need to stir up shit for no reason and start trade rumors when none exist. It pisses me off. I can guarantee that Elway isn’t seriously considering trading Von but he can’t say that, either. No GM deals in absolutes.

Sometimes its better to say "We are not moving Von" so i can kind of understand the concern especially after Von said he wanted to be a Bronco for life.

Poet
01-04-2019, 10:43 PM
Sometimes its better to say "We are not moving Von" so i can kind of understand the concern especially after Von said he wanted to be a Bronco for life.

It doesn't really matter. I mean it does, because we're men. But it doesn't because another Bronco was told he'd be a Bronco for life before being traded/not given a chance to restructure.

It's a business and a cruel one at that. I'd not mind it - a full blown rebuild would be beautiful.

Northman
01-04-2019, 10:47 PM
People though the Cowboys were crazy for trading Walker.
Von will be thirty this year. Are his best days behind him? How many elite years does he have left, 2-3?
I don’t want to see Von traded, but when you’re 6-10 you can’t take chips off the table, especially if they’re not quarterbacks and they’re 30. If someone wants to make the offer of a lifetime you at least listen to the offer..
We just remodeled our great room and we love it. We’ve talked about retiring in this house and spending our golden years here, but if someone offered me 10% more than what it was worth I would listen to the offer.
Elway is no dummy. He didn’t say Von was on the trading block. He said, guess what we suck! Nothing is off the table and Von isn’t a 30 year old quarterback, he’s a 30 year old linebacker. Most linebackers are done by the age of 30-32.

But had Walker won a SB with the Cowboys? What if Reeves had traded Elway before Shanahan came along? Personally you've already invested the money into the player and he is the current face of the franchise so i would be pretty disappointed if we traded him because it just sounds like desperation at this point. The reason we are where we are as a franchise right now is directly because of John and his decision with coaches and QB's. I cant imagine John surviving trading Von especially when so many fans backed him when Reeves was entertaining the idea of replacing him way back when.

Northman
01-04-2019, 10:48 PM
It doesn't really matter. I mean it does, because we're men. But it doesn't because another Bronco was told he'd be a Bronco for life before being traded/not given a chance to restructure.

It's a business and a cruel one at that. I'd not mind it - a full blown rebuild would be beautiful.

DT never had the impact that Von did, Von was SB50 MVP for a reason.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-04-2019, 10:56 PM
But had Walker won a SB with the Cowboys? What if Reeves had traded Elway before Shanahan came along? Personally you've already invested the money into the player and he is the current face of the franchise so i would be pretty disappointed if we traded him because it just sounds like desperation at this point. The reason we are where we are as a franchise right now is directly because of John and his decision with coaches and QB's. I cant imagine John surviving trading Von especially when so many fans backed him when Reeves was entertaining the idea of replacing him way back when.

I would also be disappointed if we traded Von.

Trading Elway compared to Von is apples & oranges because Von is not a quarterback.

I will reiterate, I would be disappointed if we trade Von. However he shouldn’t be off the table, not at the age of 30. Listening to offers is smart.

Poet
01-04-2019, 11:03 PM
DT never had the impact that Von did, Von was SB50 MVP for a reason.

The point is that DT was/wasn't what Von Miller. It's just that it's a business and executives will do whatever they think is best. Even if it isn't. Von's great play doesn't insulate him from this, IMO.

Northman
01-04-2019, 11:04 PM
The point is that DT was/wasn't what Von Miller. It's just that it's a business and executives will do whatever they think is best. Even if it isn't. Von's great play doesn't insulate him from this, IMO.

Maybe, but it would certainly affect me as a fan that i do know. I would lose faith in this entire franchise if he traded him away no question.

Poet
01-04-2019, 11:07 PM
Maybe, but it would certainly affect me as a fan that i do know. I would lose faith in this entire franchise if he traded him away no question.

Even for three first rounders? I'm not fan policing you - I'm just shocked I guess. I remember when my father sat me down and he said "Boy, listen. You're a commodity. Everyone is a commodity. They'll throw you away. Also, you're fat and stupid."

Oh, dad. We had the best times.

Northman
01-04-2019, 11:09 PM
Even for three first rounders? I'm not fan policing you - I'm just shocked I guess. I remember when my father sat me down and he said "Boy, listen. You're a commodity. Everyone is a commodity. They'll throw you away. Also, you're fat and stupid."

Oh, dad. We had the best times.

Lol, Denver isnt getting 3 first rounders. Just not going to happen.

Poet
01-04-2019, 11:10 PM
Lol, Denver isnt getting 3 first rounders. Just not going to happen.

It was just a hypo, you big bully.

Northman
01-04-2019, 11:11 PM
Even for three first rounders? I'm not fan policing you - I'm just shocked I guess. I remember when my father sat me down and he said "Boy, listen. You're a commodity. Everyone is a commodity. They'll throw you away. Also, you're fat and stupid."

Oh, dad. We had the best times.

Keep in mind i would have lost my shit had they traded Elway back in the day. Some players are just off limits in my opinion and Von is one of those. Again, Elway sounds like he is in desperation and its not a good look. Denver can easily keep Von and fix the few things that need fixing without giving away our best player. Just a huge no no for me as a fan.

Poet
01-04-2019, 11:13 PM
Keep in mind i would have lost my shit had they traded Elway back in the day. Some players are just off limits in my opinion and Von is one of those. Again, Elway sounds like he is in desperation and its not a good look. Denver can easily keep Von and fix the few things that need fixing without giving away our best player. Just a huge no no for me as a fan.

See, I don't disagree with this, either. Elway was a physical monster. Even on his last days he had plus side athleticism. Trading him when Reeves wanted to do so is insane. Von is one, but he's 30. I think that's the deciding factor for me. These are the best conversations, because it's a possibility, maybe, theoretical, and makes you think.

I appreciate your ability to do these things. Even if you're a big ole viking bully picking on a defenseless prince.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-04-2019, 11:17 PM
It was just a hypo, you big bully.

#hypo. I like it.

Dapper Dan
01-04-2019, 11:18 PM
I'd trade Von for Stafford and re-sign Barrett. But that's just me. Our FO likes to drink too.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-04-2019, 11:23 PM
He's not being traded.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-04-2019, 11:24 PM
But had Walker won a SB with the Cowboys? What if Reeves had traded Elway before Shanahan came along? Personally you've already invested the money into the player and he is the current face of the franchise so i would be pretty disappointed if we traded him because it just sounds like desperation at this point. The reason we are where we are as a franchise right now is directly because of John and his decision with coaches and QB's. I cant imagine John surviving trading Von especially when so many fans backed him when Reeves was entertaining the idea of replacing him way back when.


He's not being traded.

You’re being traded.

Dapper Dan
01-04-2019, 11:25 PM
He's not being traded.

WTF are we gonna do until September?!?!

Also, I miss you, Ass. I miss you like we miss Malik the freak.

Dapper Dan
01-04-2019, 11:26 PM
You’re being traded.

Al Wilson is one of my all time favorites. And for that, I love you. #nohomo

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-04-2019, 11:28 PM
But had Walker won a SB with the Cowboys? What if Reeves had traded Elway before Shanahan came along? Personally you've already invested the money into the player and he is the current face of the franchise so i would be pretty disappointed if we traded him because it just sounds like desperation at this point. The reason we are where we are as a franchise right now is directly because of John and his decision with coaches and QB's. I cant imagine John surviving trading Von especially when so many fans backed him when Reeves was entertaining the idea of replacing him way back when.


Al Wilson is one of my all time favorites. And for that, I love you. #nohomo

I was heartbroken when we moved on from Al.
Do you remember how old he was when his body started to break down?
Let’s also talk about Navarro Bowman, or Demarcus Ware, or the list goes on and on.

Dapper Dan
01-04-2019, 11:32 PM
I was heartbroken when we moved on from Al.
Do you remember how old he was when his body started to break down?
Let’s also talk about Navarro Bowman, or Demarcus Ware, or the list goes on and on.

First major anything I ever went to was a Broncos/Brown game in Cleveland in 2006. I remember being about 5 feet from him. He was trying to take off it gloves but had trouble with the tape. I'll never forget that. My dad took me. We never went anywhere. This was literally the only sporting event we ever went to. My dad never took me places. It warms my hear when I see you take your kid places. It means a lot. What may seem like a waste of money can be a lifetime memory. All I remember is the feeling of being there. All my dad remembers is the price. You're a good man, Al. Keep doing you.

BeefStew25
01-04-2019, 11:34 PM
I think Von’s next contract will be very team friendly.

But I say this. Belichick isn’t emo about any player. It’s hard. But he’s not. Imagine sucking the emotion out of any decision.

Dapper Dan
01-04-2019, 11:36 PM
I think Von’s next contract will be very team friendly.

But I say this. Belichick isn’t emo about any player. It’s hard. But he’s not. Imagine sucking the emotion out of any decision.

I can't remember if I met you in 2015 or not.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-04-2019, 11:36 PM
But did Bill B ever ship anyone of Vons caliber?

Dapper Dan
01-04-2019, 11:37 PM
But did Bill B ever ship anyone of Vons caliber?

Negatory Big Ben.

Cugel
01-04-2019, 11:40 PM
It would be a horrible trade and Elway would deserve all the criticism he's taking.

Let's take a look at the Kalil Mack trade by comparison and we can see exactly WHY it would be an insane idea.

First of all the Raiders don't have to care what their fans think. They are done with Oakland. They pissed all over their fan base with the decision to move to Las Vegas. They can burn down the franchise and then rebuild it in Vegas and not care.

Is Denver in position to tell all the fans to get stuffed for a move that might (but in all likelihood would NOT pay off) in maybe 3 years? No.

Even so, the trade was TERRIBLE for Oakland. Of course they FAILED to get equal value for Mack! Denver would never get equal value for Von either.

The Bears gave up their 1st round pick in 2019, plus their 1st rounder in 2020, plus a 3rd rounder in 2020 and a 6th rounder in 2019. But they also gave UP a 2nd round pick in 2019 and a conditional 5th rounder in 2020.

Sandy Clough tells why this sucks for Oakland. What team would trade for Von? Answer: a team like the Bears that feels that it is one elite pass rusher away from competing for championships. The bears got Mack, then suddenly went to 12-4 and currently have the 28th pick of the draft.

NO top 10 team is going to trade for Von because they need everything and can't afford to give up so much draft capital unless it's for a QB.

Meanwhile the Raiders finished 4-12 and have the 4th pick of the draft.

SO - in 2019 the Bears give up their #28 pick (maybe worse if they go to the SB). That is worth 660 points.

Then in 2020, the Bears give up their 1st rounder. We don't know what that is worth, but a 1st round pick in 2020 is considered by NFL teams to be equal to a 2nd round pick in 2019. Such trades happen from time to time (McMoron traded a first in 2010 for a 2nd in 2009 - turned out to be Darcel McBath).

The present trade value of that pick is the 28th pick of the 2nd round (2019) and is worth - 290 points. 290 + 660 = 950 points = the 17th pick of the 1st. Mack was the 5th pick of the draft in 2014.

It is likely that the Bears will be good again in 2020, while the Raiders are still lucky to win 8 games. So, the Bears get Oakland's high 2nd round draft pick in 2020 and give up their own low 1st round. The difference if the teams records remained the same in 2020 would be about 110 points = to the first pick of the 4th round.

So, Oakland got royally screwed. Completely hosed. They essentially traded Mack for a mid first round pick. Plus a 3rd or 4th rounder in 2020.

They don't care because they were TRYING TO TANK now in order to get picks they could use when they are in Vegas in 2 years. They don't have to win anything right now and they won exactly 4 games.

The same thing would happen if the Broncos traded Von. They would have to trade him to a team that is one pass rusher away from the SB. Then Denver gets the 28th pick or something!

HORRIBLE trade for the Raiders. It would be a horrible trade for Denver.

And this doesn't even include the fact that you can't necessarily get a player equal to Von Miller even with the #1 pick of this year's draft. He's a Hall of Famer.

Go ahead Elway. Put your feet in cement shoes with this if you dare. But, nobody is ever going to forgive you if it doesn't work out. And it almost certainly won't work out.

(They would not get a veteran franchise QB out of the deal, it would be for a draft pick so let's not discuss that).

LawDog
01-04-2019, 11:40 PM
But did Bill B ever ship anyone of Vons caliber?

Well, he would have if Robert Kraft hadn’t pulled the “owner” card over tom brady.

LawDog
01-04-2019, 11:42 PM
Also, can we at least get past the playoffs before we start the off season stupidity?

BeefStew25
01-04-2019, 11:42 PM
I can't remember if I met you in 2015 or not.

Did you have a tramp stamp?

Dapper Dan
01-04-2019, 11:42 PM
Did you have a tramp stamp?

No. That’s pudge.

BeefStew25
01-04-2019, 11:42 PM
But did Bill B ever ship anyone of Vons caliber?


Seymour on the backside.

BeefStew25
01-04-2019, 11:43 PM
Well, he would have if Robert Kraft hadn’t pulled the “owner” card over tom brady.


The right play prolly would be to keep Jimmy G.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-04-2019, 11:45 PM
Well, he would have if Robert Kraft hadn’t pulled the “owner” card over tom brady.

Do we really believe that?

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-04-2019, 11:45 PM
First major anything I ever went to was a Broncos/Brown game in Cleveland in 2006. I remember being about 5 feet from him. He was trying to take off it gloves but had trouble with the tape. I'll never forget that. My dad took me. We never went anywhere. This was literally the only sporting event we ever went to. My dad never took me places. It warms my hear when I see you take your kid places. It means a lot. What may seem like a waste of money can be a lifetime memory. All I remember is the feeling of being there. All my dad remembers is the price. You're a good man, Al. Keep doing you.

Thank you for the kind words Dan, I appreciate it.
I took my oldest to a Denver game for his 13th birthday. It was a great time. My wife and I were talking about it just yesterday and the fact my next oldest will be 13 in four months. My wife is encouraging me to do something similar with him. We haven’t figured out what I’m going to do with him but it should be a blast.

BeefStew25
01-04-2019, 11:46 PM
Do we really believe that?

I do 100%. BB is non emo.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-04-2019, 11:47 PM
Seymour on the backside.

He's the 1. Forgot about him.

BeefStew25
01-04-2019, 11:50 PM
He's the 1. Forgot about him.

Two number ones. Think about that. It would be hard to say no.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-04-2019, 11:52 PM
Two number ones. Think about that. It would be hard to say no.

Depends on the team. They would have to suck. And the pick would have to be in thia draft.

And oh yeah...not happening

Northman
01-04-2019, 11:52 PM
Well, he would have if Robert Kraft hadn’t pulled the “owner” card over tom brady.

Which is why we can be glad Bowlen didnt allow Reeves to do that to Elway.

NightTrainLayne
01-04-2019, 11:53 PM
Even for three first rounders? I'm not fan policing you - I'm just shocked I guess. I remember when my father sat me down and he said "Boy, listen. You're a commodity. Everyone is a commodity. They'll throw you away. Also, you're fat and stupid."

Oh, dad. We had the best times.


You're not really all that fat.

LawDog
01-04-2019, 11:53 PM
Do we really believe that?

Garapolo for a 2nd round pick? In the middle of the season? Sumthin sure was going on.

BeefStew25
01-04-2019, 11:54 PM
Which is why we can be glad Bowlen didnt allow Reeves to do that to Elway.

Elway wasn’t 39.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-04-2019, 11:57 PM
You're not really all that fat.

I hope you’ve never said this to your wife.

Poet
01-05-2019, 12:00 AM
You're not really all that fat.

Six feet tall. 350 pounds. But my big ass arabic cheeks hide the facial fat, and because my mom's side of the family is nothing but big ole farm boys, my broad shoulders help.

I'm a sloth monster beast, though. My body's already breaking down. I figure when I'm out of school I can manage it then.

BeefStew25
01-05-2019, 12:02 AM
Six feet tall. 350 pounds. But my big ass arabic cheeks hide the facial fat, and because my mom's side of the family is nothing but big ole farm boys, my broad shoulders help.

I'm a sloth monster beast, though. My body's already breaking down. I figure when I'm out of school I can manage it then.

I think it’s an act.

Poet
01-05-2019, 12:04 AM
I think it’s an act.

I'm not sending you nude, bro. God I see right through you.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-05-2019, 12:05 AM
Two number ones. Think about that. It would be hard to say no.

Ashley Lelie, Willie Middlebrooks, Deltha Oneal, Garrett Bolles, Knowshon Moreno, Robert Ayers, Sylvester Williams, Paxton Lynch, George Foster, Jarvis Moss, Tim Tebow, Shane Ray... pick any two that you’d trade for Von. That’s what I thought. Our only first round picks in the past decade plus some that are/were worth a damn were Clady, Chubb, DT, and Von himself (two of which were top 5 picks). Draft picks are one of the dumbest things to value in reality. Oh they’re exciting to have, until your team drafts a terrible player with a high pick. I don’t trust our team with picks right now. They’ve had 1 good draft out of the last 5 or 6. Let’s not get hasty.

Trading proven all pros is like trading players for lotto tickets. You almost NEVER get the same return on your investment.

Poet
01-05-2019, 12:10 AM
Ashley Lelie, Willie Middlebrooks, Deltha Oneal, Garrett Bolles, Knowshon Moreno, Robert Ayers, Sylvester Williams, Paxton Lynch, George Foster, Jarvis Moss, Tim Tebow, Shane Ray... pick any two that you’d trade for Von. That’s what I thought. Our only first round picks in the past decade plus some that are/were worth a damn were Clady, Chubb, DT, and Von himself (two of which were top 5 picks). Draft picks are one of the dumbest things to value in reality. Oh they’re exciting to have, until your team drafts a terrible player with a high pick. I don’t trust our team with picks right now. They’ve had 1 good draft out of the last 5 or 6. Let’s not get hasty.

Trading proven all pros is like trading players for lotto tickets. You almost NEVER get the same return on your investment.

Okay, so why are we assuming the first rounders suck? O'Neal went on to have several pro bowl seasons, FWIW. Moreno had an all pro caliber season with Manning and then got hurt and retired. Ayers, for all his flaws, has been a long term NFL starter. Shane Ray had a great rookie season, got hurt, and then got in VJ's dog house.

Draft picks are dumb? Well, remember when we built a team built on draft picks, supplemented it with great defensive players and a HoF QB? Where are all the...great FA's and HoF Qb's at? By the time this team is a contender again Von Miller will just be a shell of himself.

It's about value.

BeefStew25
01-05-2019, 12:11 AM
Ashley Lelie, Willie Middlebrooks, Deltha Oneal, Garrett Bolles, Knowshon Moreno, Robert Ayers, Sylvester Williams, Paxton Lynch, George Foster, Jarvis Moss, Tim Tebow, Shane Ray... pick any two that you’d trade for Von. That’s what I thought. Our only first round picks in the past decade plus some that are/were worth a damn were Clady, Chubb, DT, and Von himself (two of which were top 5 picks). Draft picks are one of the dumbest things to value in reality. Oh they’re exciting to have, until your team drafts a terrible player with a high pick. I don’t trust our team with picks right now. They’ve had 1 good draft out of the last 5 or 6. Let’s not get hasty.

Trading proven all pros is like trading players for lotto tickets. You almost NEVER get the same return on your investment.

Leave out the good picks.

I’m not saying no. I’m just saying.

aberdien
01-05-2019, 12:17 AM
Having veteran leaders on both sides of the ball is an important asset. Especially when they're all-time great talents. Treating your players with respect is important too in the long run. Von won us a SB. He can stay as long as he wants to stay. I pity those who prefer the Belichick way of refusing to acknowledge reasonable human emotions in sports. Keep being emotionless dorks.

#TeamEmo

aberdien
01-05-2019, 12:19 AM
First major anything I ever went to was a Broncos/Brown game in Cleveland in 2006. I remember being about 5 feet from him. He was trying to take off it gloves but had trouble with the tape. I'll never forget that. My dad took me. We never went anywhere. This was literally the only sporting event we ever went to. My dad never took me places. It warms my hear when I see you take your kid places. It means a lot. What may seem like a waste of money can be a lifetime memory. All I remember is the feeling of being there. All my dad remembers is the price. You're a good man, Al. Keep doing you.

Speaking of getting me in my feels

Poet
01-05-2019, 12:22 AM
Seymour on the backside.

Jamie Collins when he meant something. That great pass rusher, too. Went to Arizona. Chandler Jones, I think? He will send some great players elsewhere. But when he signs a star player, it's always to a deal that he can live with. Vince Wilfork is one of the few Patriots to ever see three contracts.

BeefStew25
01-05-2019, 12:27 AM
Jamie Collins when he meant something. That great pass rusher, too. Went to Arizona. Chandler Jones, I think? He will send some great players elsewhere. But when he signs a star player, it's always to a deal that he can live with. Vince Wilfork is one of the few Patriots to ever see three contracts.

He was gonna trade gronk until the meathead threatened retirement.

Poet
01-05-2019, 12:33 AM
He was gonna trade gronk until the meathead threatened retirement.

Gronk's dumb but he's not dumb dumb. He saves all his money and only spends whatever is lesser money that year - salary or endorsement money. He bangs porn stars but never gets them pregnant because he's snipped.

NightTrainLayne
01-05-2019, 12:36 AM
Gronk's dumb but he's not dumb dumb. He saves all his money and only spends whatever is lesser money that year - salary or endorsement money. He bangs porn stars but never gets them pregnant because he's snipped.

Seriously? He's had a vasectomy so he doesn't have to worry about paternity? Is that for real?

BeefStew25
01-05-2019, 12:40 AM
Seriously? He's had a vasectomy so he doesn't have to worry about paternity? Is that for real?

It’s a brilliant plan. :)

Poet
01-05-2019, 12:41 AM
Seriously? He's had a vasectomy so he doesn't have to worry about paternity? Is that for real?

It's what his friend Mojo Rawley has said.

NightTrainLayne
01-05-2019, 12:50 AM
It’s a brilliant plan. :)


It's what his friend Mojo Rawley has said.

I find that profoundly sad. Beef's snipped, but he had a couple of kids first. If you want to talk about selfish. . .wow.

BeefStew25
01-05-2019, 12:53 AM
I find that profoundly sad. Beef's snipped, but he had a couple of kids first. If you want to talk about selfish. . .wow.

1) baby batter on ice
2) reversal


He’s fine.

Poet
01-05-2019, 12:56 AM
I find that profoundly sad. Beef's snipped, but he had a couple of kids first. If you want to talk about selfish. . .wow.

If a person doesn't want kids, I think it's a fair thing to do.

NightTrainLayne
01-05-2019, 01:00 AM
If a person doesn't want kids, I think it's a fair thing to do.

I'm old enough now that I know many people who didn't want kids earlier in life who now truly regret that decision.

Poet
01-05-2019, 01:01 AM
I'm old enough now that I know many people who didn't want kids earlier in life who now truly regret that decision.

Adoption is a more moral choice, regardless of a loaded gun or blanks.

BeefStew25
01-05-2019, 01:05 AM
I'm old enough now that I know many people who didn't want kids earlier in life who now truly regret that decision.

He’s just a kid. He’s fine.

Poet
01-05-2019, 01:06 AM
If you think about it, trading Von is like booting a college kid out, so you can make room for an infant...or something. ****. I got nothing.

NightTrainLayne
01-05-2019, 01:09 AM
If you think about it, trading Von is like booting a college kid out, so you can make room for an infant...or something. ****. I got nothing.

Meh. One of my best friends is a confirmed bachelor who won't ever have any children. Different strokes for different folks.

aberdien
01-05-2019, 01:12 AM
Meh. One of my best friends is a confirmed bachelor who won't ever have any children. Different strokes for different folks.

Let me know if you find any hot latinas in their late 20s looking to have some mixed babies.

Poet
01-05-2019, 01:13 AM
Let me know if you find any hot latinas in their late 20s looking to have some mixed babies.

Share some with - I just wont' tell them I'm snipped...oh...that's what NTL was talking about.

NightTrainLayne
01-05-2019, 01:24 AM
Let me know if you find any hot latinas in their late 20s looking to have some mixed babies.

Dude. My wife is a total matchmaker. I'll put her on the case if you want. . .but you may have to trek to The City.

Poet
01-05-2019, 01:25 AM
Dude. My wife is a total matchmaker. I'll put her on the case if you want. . .but you may have to trek to The City.

If she's such a great matchmaker how'd she end up with you?

I'm just kidding, truly. You have a wonderful family. Please don't shoot me.

aberdien
01-05-2019, 01:27 AM
Dude. My wife is a total matchmaker. I'll put her on the case if you want. . .but you may have to trek to The City.

Just get her to hook me up with that chick from Roma. Should be easy!

Poet
01-05-2019, 01:29 AM
Just get her to hook me up with that chick from Roma. Should be easy!

:eek:

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-05-2019, 02:49 AM
Having veteran leaders on both sides of the ball is an important asset. Especially when they're all-time great talents. Treating your players with respect is important too in the long run. Von won us a SB. He can stay as long as he wants to stay. I pity those who prefer the Belichick way of refusing to acknowledge reasonable human emotions in sports. Keep being emotionless dorks.

#TeamEmo

This post gets a D+ due to the lack of a gif.

Magnificent Seven
01-05-2019, 03:12 AM
If they decided to trade Vonster.... I would be super pissed.

MOtorboat
01-05-2019, 05:25 AM
So, I don’t want Von traded by any means. But you don’t rule anything out, ever.

#joshmcdanielsisagoddamnhero

DenBronx
01-05-2019, 07:47 AM
So now Elway is back pedaling?

13499

HORSEPOWER 56
01-05-2019, 08:48 AM
So now Elway is back pedaling?

13499

So much ado about nothing. A couple of us figured it was just the media stirring shit up. Of course he GM isn’t going to absolutely commit publicly to any player (if he’s smart) and will always listen to offers, but the idea that Elway is actively shopping him is absolutely false.

atwater27
01-05-2019, 10:27 AM
Keep in mind i would have lost my shit had they traded Elway back in the day. Some players are just off limits in my opinion and Von is one of those. Again, Elway sounds like he is in desperation and its not a good look. Denver can easily keep Von and fix the few things that need fixing without giving away our best player. Just a huge no no for me as a fan.i hear what you are saying, but you have to stare reality in the face here. We ain’t gonna win shit with Keenum. If you don’t have a GOOD QB in today’s NFL, you suck. The QBs in this draft aren’t exactly heralded. We don’t have the first 9 picks anyways even if there was. The free agent QB market is garbage. The possibility of us getting a team changing qb rests only in the trade market. And the only blue chippers we have are Von and Harris. So yeah, it would be great if Von retired a Bronco, I love him. But he will retire on a team that hadnt made the playoffs his last 5 seasons if we don’t find a GOOD signal caller. Not sure he will even stick around for that.

BroncoJoe
01-05-2019, 10:36 AM
Nothing but white noise here.

Denver Native (Carol)
01-05-2019, 10:53 AM
So much ado about nothing. A couple of us figured it was just the media stirring shit up. Of course he GM isn’t going to absolutely commit publicly to any player (if he’s smart) and will always listen to offers, but the idea that Elway is actively shopping him is absolutely false.

So true, and the media JERK who started this issued an apology -


Mike Klis Retweeted
Jon Heath
‏ @ByJonHeath
16h16 hours ago

I apologize for a post on BW today about John Elway's response to a question about possibly trading Von Miller. While Elway did say the team will "look at all the possibilities," he did not seem to imply that it was a likely possibility and he did not bring up the topic himself.

UnderArmour
01-05-2019, 11:00 AM
i hear what you are saying, but you have to stare reality in the face here. We ain’t gonna win shit with Keenum. If you don’t have a GOOD QB in today’s NFL, you suck. The QBs in this draft aren’t exactly heralded. We don’t have the first 9 picks anyways even if there was. The free agent QB market is garbage. The possibility of us getting a team changing qb rests only in the trade market. And the only blue chippers we have are Von and Harris. So yeah, it would be great if Von retired a Bronco, I love him. But he will retire on a team that hadnt made the playoffs his last 5 seasons if we don’t find a GOOD signal caller. Not sure he will even stick around for that.

This team is a good coaching staff away from winning the division next year. The Broncos dominated the division under Manning, sure, but remember that Tim Tebow won a playoff game for this franchise as part of a defense/run-first philosophy. That model still works in the NFL, and many of the "franchise QBs" that we're seeing are nothing more than illusions of the guy having a strong roster behind him. Von is an impact player, and a top 20 player in the league. The only reason you let him walk is because of cash, which Elway and Ellis are going to gladly spend on Von for marketing reasons. Pass rushers have staying power, and it's frankly possible that Von plays into his late 30s.

Why would you trade away a guy who is going to be around for another 8 years, playing at a high level, and is going to one day represent the franchise in Canton?
Anyone suggesting Von be traded away is an idiot. The Raiders traded Khalil away because their owner is broke, not for football reasons. From a football standpoint, it makes zero sense to let a pass rusher walk out your door.

BroncoWave
01-05-2019, 11:01 AM
I think Von’s next contract will be very team friendly.

But I say this. Belichick isn’t emo about any player. It’s hard. But he’s not. Imagine sucking the emotion out of any decision.

And now the Pats have just about zero talent to show for it. BB the GM has lost a step.

Nomad
01-05-2019, 11:03 AM
Glad to hear it was fake news

Nomad
01-05-2019, 11:50 AM
Von's Mom was some pissed off. Damn! LoL.

aberdien
01-05-2019, 11:51 AM
I feel like Elway could have just said "no we don't plan on trading Von Miller" and prevented all of this hullabaloo.

Nomad
01-05-2019, 11:53 AM
I feel like Elway could have just said "no we don't plan on trading Von Miller" and prevented all of this hullabaloo.

You think if he ever sees Von's Mom coming down the hallway that he'll try to avoid her by hiding behind a plant? :D

UnderArmour
01-05-2019, 11:55 AM
What stood out to me:

https://www.9news.com/article/sports/nfl/denver-broncos/mike-klis/von-millers-mom-explains-her-social-media-post-always-will-protect-and-defend-my-son/73-0ef9202b-5d9c-4f8b-8b38-42670d971dae

Afterwards, Gloria Miller contacted 9NEWS with this statement:

"The post earlier to my private account AFTER getting the trade timer/alert was from a MOTHER'S perspective which with me is, and always will be, to protect my Son.

"During the year, Vance (Joseph) made several references to Von being the issue or Von's playing being the reason the team lost particular games.

"Being fed up with the coaches blaming Von, I, being the mother I've been for almost 30 years, stood up for my son. Von can't rush the QB, stop the RB and cover the WR/TE, get the interception and score all by himself. He's one player on that team. So that's why I posted what I did to my social media page.''

Mama Miller mom wanted VJ fired too...

aberdien
01-05-2019, 11:57 AM
You think if he ever sees Von's Mom coming down the hallway that he'll try to avoid her by hiding behind a plant? :D

https://media.giphy.com/media/DxsAlO1bgIuJy/giphy.gif

aberdien
01-05-2019, 11:58 AM
VJ calling out Von is an all-time stupid coaching decision.

Al Wilson 4 Mayor
01-05-2019, 11:58 AM
I feel like Elway could have just said "no we don't plan on trading Von Miller" and prevented all of this hullabaloo.

But what we have left to talk about, the left guard for the Colts?

Northman
01-05-2019, 12:01 PM
Von's Mom was some pissed off. Damn! LoL.

Dont blame her, i would be to.

BeefStew25
01-05-2019, 12:43 PM
And now the Pats have just about zero talent to show for it. BB the GM has lost a step.

Except total depth in non sexy positions.

BeefStew25
01-05-2019, 12:43 PM
VJ calling out Von is an all-time stupid coaching decision.


The offsides stunt couldn’t be ignored.

UnderArmour
01-05-2019, 12:56 PM
The offsides stunt couldn’t be ignored.

Instead of pulling him after the first two times, VJ waited until the team was in the red zone. VJ showed his incompetence by waiting as long as he did, and doing it where he did it. It's all well and good to discipline your team, but get it straightened out immediately not when your team needs to make a play.

MOtorboat
01-05-2019, 01:13 PM
And now the Pats have just about zero talent to show for it. BB the GM has lost a step.

The last time the Patriots didn’t play in the AFC Championship was 2010 and they’re the two seed again this season. Let’s hold off on the Belicheck doesn’t have it anymore until he actually doesn’t have it.

Gimpygod
01-05-2019, 02:49 PM
Even for three first rounders? I'm not fan policing you - I'm just shocked I guess. I remember when my father sat me down and he said "Boy, listen. You're a commodity. Everyone is a commodity. They'll throw you away. Also, you're fat and stupid."

Oh, dad. We had the best times.

Wise dad open to earnest dialogue, check. Damn it King, every time I think I have found the root of your neurosis you throw back the curtain revealing a perfect upbringing... don’t worry am still on the case! Full disclosure I am not a psychiatrist but I did stay at a Holiday Inn. Fuller disclosure it was a Best Western and we just drove by without stopping. :elefant:

Poet
01-05-2019, 03:14 PM
Wise dad open to earnest dialogue, check. Damn it King, every time I think I have found the root of your neurosis you throw back the curtain revealing a perfect upbringing... don’t worry am still on the case! Full disclosure I am not a psychiatrist but I did stay at a Holiday Inn. Fuller disclosure it was a Best Western and we just drove by without stopping. :elefant:

Oh, baby.

Gimpygod
01-05-2019, 03:59 PM
I do 100%. BB is non (HUMAN)emo.

*editor’s corrected for accuracy!

Gimpygod
01-05-2019, 04:21 PM
I'm old enough now that I know many people who didn't want kids earlier in life who now truly regret that decision.
What if, hypothetically, you cannot get a woman interested in your baby batter even if it was pineapple flavored, cured acne and granted wishes? For a friend you understand cuz I am wheels deep 24/7/365... sigh

Cugel
01-05-2019, 05:01 PM
I feel like Elway could have just said "no we don't plan on trading Von Miller" and prevented all of this hullabaloo.

He wanted to entertain offers. I have no doubt he will listen to all offers. It's just futile and stupid to think that such a deal could be good for the Broncos.

All he has to do is look at the Kalil Mack deal and see what a disaster that has been for the Raiders. Obviously the only teams that would trade for Von would be teams with a solid core who think Von is the ONE PIECE they need to cement their SB dreams. NOT top 10 teams like the Cardinals, 49ers, Jets, Raiders, Bucs, Giants?

Hell no. Those teams need to draft a bunch of players to strengthen their rosters. They can't afford to trade multiple picks for one guy. Von isn't going to put them on track to win a SB.

Teams that would be interested in Von would be teams like the Bears and Cowboys were this year.

Now Oakland is getting the #28 pick (Bears) and the #24 pick (Cowboys) for Mack and . Those two picks together don't equal in value what they gave up in Mack, who was the 5th pick of the draft and turned out to be an elite player. He had a better season than Miller. 5th pick = 1700 points. 28 pick = 660 points.

1700 - 660 = 1100 points. The Raiders actually LOST value.

Next year it's worse. The Raiders will still suck, and the Bears will still be good so the Bears give up their late 1st round pick for a high 2nd rounder, giving the Raiders barely any value.

Same is true for the Cowboys who look like they will probably be in the playoffs again next year. Amari Cooper Trade Looking Like a Real Bargain Now for Cowboys (https://insidethestar.com/amari-cooper-trade-looking-like-a-real-bargain-now-for-cowboys/)


"I highly doubt there would've been a WR of Cooper's caliber in the back end of the first-round in next year's draft. There certainly wouldn't have been one who could do what #19 has done since arriving in Dallas. It could be argued he's the reason things turned around and why the Cowboys are in the playoffs right now."

They love that trade in Dallas. How would you like to see headlines like that next year "Broncos trade of Von Miller is looking like a real Loser now that team X is in the playoffs."

Of course the Raiders don't care. They peed all over their fans by moving to Vegas. But, it wasn't a great deal for Oakland.

BroncoWave
01-05-2019, 05:37 PM
Except total depth in non sexy positions.

Let's see how that works out for them in the playoffs.

BroncoWave
01-05-2019, 05:51 PM
The last time the Patriots didn’t play in the AFC Championship was 2010 and they’re the two seed again this season. Let’s hold off on the Belicheck doesn’t have it anymore until he actually doesn’t have it.

He's still a great coach. That's when they are still having the success they are with such an average roster.

Poet
01-05-2019, 05:52 PM
He's still a great coach. That's when they are still having the success they are with such an average roster.

That weak ass division, plus Brady is still pretty damn good, doesn't hurt, either.

BroncoWave
01-05-2019, 06:55 PM
That weak ass division, plus Brady is still pretty damn good, doesn't hurt, either.

True. I just don't see how people can defend what BB has put around Brady recently though. Dude has nothing to work with. Take Brady off that team they aren't sniffing the playoffs.

Rick
01-05-2019, 07:00 PM
The value for Von makes it pointless to trade him.

We wouldn't get more than a first and a mid rounder.

Poet
01-05-2019, 07:00 PM
True. I just don't see how people can defend what BB has put around Brady recently though. Dude has nothing to work with. Take Brady off that team they aren't sniffing the playoffs.

I don't disagree with this. The Cooks trade was...baffling. He and Brady never clicked but the threat and production was there.

Poet
01-05-2019, 07:04 PM
The value for Von makes it pointless to trade him.

We wouldn't get more than a first and a mid rounder.

We ain't making the playoffs with him.

BeefStew25
01-05-2019, 07:28 PM
Instead of pulling him after the first two times, VJ waited until the team was in the red zone. VJ showed his incompetence by waiting as long as he did, and doing it where he did it. It's all well and good to discipline your team, but get it straightened out immediately not when your team needs to make a play.

I don’t disagree with that. In the presser after what’s he supposed to say? This was 89% on Von

UnderArmour
01-05-2019, 10:05 PM
I don’t disagree with that. In the presser after what’s he supposed to say? This was 89% on Von

"We talked about it. We handled it internally."
I've never seen Belichick go after one of his guys in the press the way VJ went after Von. There were many instances where he threw players under the bus. Good leaders don't do that. VJ honestly cared too much about his media relationships, and not enough about the football team. He probably knows he doesn't have much of a future in the NFL, but maybe ESPN or NFL Network will hire him as an analyst.

Simple Jaded
01-05-2019, 10:42 PM
For the record, I think this would be a nail in the coffin for Elway. Miller is a once in a generation player that few teams get a chance to have. I do not like this move and I think if Elway does this the fan base would be more divided then the Plummer/Cutler wars.

We are not the raiders. You don’t trade a star pass rusher for a draft pick. Only trade that would make sense is a straight up trade for Aaron Rogers. Anything else is dumb.


Also Von Millers mom just let Elway have it on Twitter.

13498
She ain’t wrong.

Simple Jaded
01-05-2019, 10:46 PM
This is the most overblown bullshit load of gotcha reporting I’ve seen. End of year presser they ask about trading Von... why? 100% clickbait. Unless Elway immediately says, “no ******* way!!!”, something no GM in the league who has half a brain says, he’s immediately the villain. Elway said “we’ll look at everything”. He didn’t say, “we’re looking to move Von” but that’s how people are writing it and now Von’s mom is talking shit on Twitter.

Why would we trade Von? We have plenty of cap space, we have the #10 overall pick, and nobody is gonna trade a top QB in their prime for him - I’m talking Andrew Luck (the only thing that would be if equal value). It just won’t happen. But now the media jackasses feel the need to stir up shit for no reason and start trade rumors when none exist. It pisses me off. I can guarantee that Elway isn’t seriously considering trading Von but he can’t say that, either. No GM deals in absolutes.

Uh Oh let me guess, “Fake News”?

:rolleyes:

BeefStew25
01-06-2019, 12:45 AM
"We talked about it. We handled it internally."
I've never seen Belichick go after one of his guys in the press the way VJ went after Von. There were many instances where he threw players under the bus. Good leaders don't do that. VJ honestly cared too much about his media relationships, and not enough about the football team. He probably knows he doesn't have much of a future in the NFL, but maybe ESPN or NFL Network will hire him as an analyst.

Let’s just agree you’re wrong.

Poet
01-06-2019, 02:38 AM
"We talked about it. We handled it internally."
I've never seen Belichick go after one of his guys in the press the way VJ went after Von. There were many instances where he threw players under the bus. Good leaders don't do that. VJ honestly cared too much about his media relationships, and not enough about the football team. He probably knows he doesn't have much of a future in the NFL, but maybe ESPN or NFL Network will hire him as an analyst.

That was how he tried to motivate players.

Jsteve01
01-06-2019, 08:54 AM
That was how he tried to motivate players.
Ie calling out DT in the media with zero relationship and not even one practice under his belt.

As to the Von scenario. If it were an effort thing or a conduct thing then have at it Vance, but dont pile on when your best player just had a bad day.

Poet
01-06-2019, 10:43 AM
Yarp

UnderArmour
01-06-2019, 10:50 AM
Let’s just agree you’re wrong.

I'm not wrong though. There's a reason DT, Talib, and other veteran players don't share this "leader of men" enthusiasm players currently on the team do. VJ frequently threw people under the bus instead of owning it himself.

A good coach is going to deflect the criticism and the blame, but instead VJ openly magnified criticisms towards his players and staff.

Northman
01-06-2019, 11:55 AM
I'm not wrong though. There's a reason DT, Talib, and other veteran players don't share this "leader of men" enthusiasm players currently on the team do. VJ frequently threw people under the bus instead of owning it himself.

A good coach is going to deflect the criticism and the blame, but instead VJ openly magnified criticisms towards his players and staff.

Yep.

Cugel
01-06-2019, 06:19 PM
Kalil Mack is looking like a pretty good addition to that Bears defense today. They are smothering the Eagles offense. Let's not hear any more B.S. that in the "modern NFL" that defense can't win championships.

Less and less does it look like the should consider trading Von.

BroncoWave
01-06-2019, 06:34 PM
I'm not wrong though. There's a reason DT, Talib, and other veteran players don't share this "leader of men" enthusiasm players currently on the team do. VJ frequently threw people under the bus instead of owning it himself.

A good coach is going to deflect the criticism and the blame, but instead VJ openly magnified criticisms towards his players and staff.

You'll have to excuse Beef, he has a strange infatuation for VJ.

Simple Jaded
01-06-2019, 08:56 PM
Broncos should look into trading for Carson Wentz, if the Eagles have any self-awareness they know which QB to trade.

Having said that, there’s no way in hell I keep Foles over Wentz.

aberdien
01-06-2019, 08:57 PM
I'd rather have Stafford than Wentz.

Cugel
01-06-2019, 08:59 PM
Broncos should look into trading for Carson Wentz, if the Eagles have any self-awareness they know which QB to trade.

Having said that, there’s no way in hell I keep Foles over Wentz.

Well they dont, they will keep Wentz.

UnderArmour
01-06-2019, 09:02 PM
I'd rather have Stafford than Wentz.

Martha Ford won't allow it.

Simple Jaded
01-06-2019, 09:06 PM
Well they dont, they will keep Wentz.

Who the **** asked your sources?

UnderArmour
01-06-2019, 09:11 PM
The actual trade cost for Wentz would start at 2 first round picks, and likely have to include a player of value as well. It's not happening. Foles will be traded.

Simple Jaded
01-06-2019, 09:34 PM
The actual trade cost for Wentz would start at 2 first round picks, and likely have to include a player of value as well. It's not happening. Foles will be traded.

Foles can opt out, the only way they keep him is to commit to him.

Davii
01-07-2019, 12:21 AM
Foles can opt out, the only way they keep him is to commit to him.

Correct.

Either the Eagles or Foles can walk away. He has one year. If the Eagles exercise the option it's 20 million. If they don't it's a 10 million dollar cap hit.

If they exercise the option Foles can block it and repay a 2 million dollar portion of his signing bonus.

Valar Morghulis
01-07-2019, 03:58 AM
I honestly think Foles will not succeed anywhere outside of Philly in the limited role he currently has.

He has been clutch, i will give him that - but the Foles train ends the second he leaves Philly

Cugel
01-07-2019, 04:09 AM
Foles can opt out, the only way they keep him is to commit to him.

There is zero chance they would commit to him after the drafted Wentz. If they were equal, which they are not, they would still keep Wentz because he's much cheaper. Foles earned $13.6m this year and Wentz, $7.5.

DenBronx
01-07-2019, 05:21 AM
The actual trade cost for Wentz would start at 2 first round picks, and likely have to include a player of value as well. It's not happening. Foles will be traded.

2 first for Wentz would be well worth it. What player we would have to trade on top of that...who knows. Definitely wouldn’t be Von. Who else do we have that’s trade worthy? Wolfe? CHJ?

Philly won’t trade Wentz but they should still take phone calls and if they do ...Elway better be on the other end.

HORSEPOWER 56
01-07-2019, 09:41 AM
2 first for Wentz would be well worth it. What player we would have to trade on top of that...who knows. Definitely wouldn’t be Von. Who else do we have that’s trade worthy? Wolfe? CHJ?

Philly won’t trade Wentz but they should still take phone calls and if they do ...Elway better be on the other end.

Is he really worth it? We have the #10 overall pick. Is he really that much better than Haskins, Lock, Jones, Murray, etc? Like another first and a second/player better? I’m not so sure. He looked great last year before being hurt. This year, before being hurt again, he looked remarkably average. Just because he was everyone’s lovechild last year doesn’t mean he’s top 10 in the league. He really doesn’t have the body of work yet. He’s not much more than Foles before him, or Matt Cassell in NE, or even Case Keenum in Minnesota.

Philly squeaked back into the playoffs this year based on Foles not losing the last 3 games. They probably weren’t getting in if Wentz had not gotten hurt. This is my opinion of course, but in the Philly games I saw this year, Wentz didn’t look good.

BeefStew25
01-07-2019, 01:35 PM
I'm not wrong though. There's a reason DT, Talib, and other veteran players don't share this "leader of men" enthusiasm players currently on the team do. VJ frequently threw people under the bus instead of owning it himself.

A good coach is going to deflect the criticism and the blame, but instead VJ openly magnified criticisms towards his players and staff.

Maybe they are loser players.

BroncoWave
01-07-2019, 01:43 PM
Maybe they are loser players.

Yep, everyone else sucks but VJ.

UnderArmour
01-07-2019, 01:43 PM
Maybe they are loser players.

They got rings. VJ doesn't.
They're won playoff games. VJ was part of a 2011 and 2012 Texans staff that beat the Bengals, but those are his only playoff wins in his career. Every other season? No playoff wins.

VJ is definitely the loser, but he tricked the Broncos into hiring him, so I guess we're the losers.

BeefStew25
01-07-2019, 01:43 PM
Yep, everyone else sucks but VJ.

Who said that?

BeefStew25
01-07-2019, 01:43 PM
They got rings. VJ doesn't.
They're won playoff games. VJ was part of a 2011 and 2012 Texans staff that beat the Bengals, but those are his only playoff wins in his career. Every other season? No playoff wins.

VJ is definitely the loser, but he tricked the Broncos into hiring him, so I guess we're the losers.

Munchak is a winner.

UnderArmour
01-07-2019, 01:46 PM
Munchak is a winner.

Hall of Famer. I'd take him over VJ any day of the week. He is mediocre, but he would fall on the sword for his guys and handle business in house.

BeefStew25
01-07-2019, 01:57 PM
Hall of Famer. I'd take him over VJ any day of the week. He is mediocre, but he would fall on the sword for his guys and handle business in house.

I don’t have a gripe with player management of his at all. His in game coaching was the issue.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-07-2019, 04:09 PM
I honestly think Foles will not succeed anywhere outside of Philly in the limited role he currently has.

He has been clutch, i will give him that - but the Foles train ends the second he leaves Philly

I would take Foles in a heartbeat if we have the right OC who will play to his strengths. He has shown he has the arm and he isn't overly careless with the ball. He doesn't wither in big moments. He's agile enough to evade pressure and run for a 1st down or 2. We have RBs who are better than what Philly has and we have a Jeffrey clone at WR. I'd also take Sanders and Hamilton over Phillys current crop. Our oline would need to improve, but it was coached up a bit this year. Add a piece and continue to evolve.

Not against a round 1 QB, but Foles would allow us to address some other needs while winning games.

UnderArmour
01-07-2019, 06:20 PM
I don’t have a gripe with player management of his at all. His in game coaching was the issue.

The two go hand-in-hand. Not pulling Von out of the game after the first, or at least the second offsides showed a lack of player management. Whining about it to the press after the 4th time like "Oh! I'm asserting myself as head coach! I drew the line at 4 offsides penalties!!! Look at how in control of this football team I am!" How oblivious can a head coach be? Not to mention the Ravens game where the team showed no discipline whatsoever.

Guy couldn't manage. Guy couldn't coach (at least on Sundays). Guy isn't a winner. I'm sure he's a nice guy though.

MOtorboat
01-07-2019, 07:34 PM
I just can’t see Elway making a quarterback move (outside of the draft) this offseason because of how much they owe Keenum.

Simple Jaded
01-07-2019, 11:42 PM
Correct.

Either the Eagles or Foles can walk away. He has one year. If the Eagles exercise the option it's 20 million. If they don't it's a 10 million dollar cap hit.

If they exercise the option Foles can block it and repay a 2 million dollar portion of his signing bonus.

I heard that they could franchise tag him, I’m not sure about that though.

Simple Jaded
01-07-2019, 11:44 PM
There is zero chance they would commit to him after the drafted Wentz. If they were equal, which they are not, they would still keep Wentz because he's much cheaper. Foles earned $13.6m this year and Wentz, $7.5.

Yup.

Keenum.

Dead money.

Burp.

Fart.

Northman
01-08-2019, 01:01 PM
Myles Garrett wants Von in Cleveland. This is what happens when your GM leaves the door open when discussing your franchise player.

https://dawgpounddaily.com/2019/01/06/cleveland-browns-myles-garrett-wants-get-von-miller-cleveland/?fbclid=IwAR13Xv8gs9n67625-SwzXQXnbRuBz2BflvIYaktu075NAXYmZMo49SZoBog

MOtorboat
01-08-2019, 01:02 PM
Myles Garrett wants Von in Cleveland. This is what happens when your GM leaves the door open when discussing your franchise player.

https://dawgpounddaily.com/2019/01/06/cleveland-browns-myles-garrett-wants-get-von-miller-cleveland/?fbclid=IwAR13Xv8gs9n67625-SwzXQXnbRuBz2BflvIYaktu075NAXYmZMo49SZoBog

Because great players don’t ever talk about playing with other great players?

BroncoJoe
01-08-2019, 01:03 PM
Myles Garrett wants Von in Cleveland. This is what happens when your GM leaves the door open when discussing your franchise player.

https://dawgpounddaily.com/2019/01/06/cleveland-browns-myles-garrett-wants-get-von-miller-cleveland/?fbclid=IwAR13Xv8gs9n67625-SwzXQXnbRuBz2BflvIYaktu075NAXYmZMo49SZoBog

Good grief. What team or player wouldn't want to play with Von?

Elways comments are still a nothing-burger.

BeefStew25
01-08-2019, 01:17 PM
Myles Garrett wants Von in Cleveland. This is what happens when your GM leaves the door open when discussing your franchise player.

https://dawgpounddaily.com/2019/01/06/cleveland-browns-myles-garrett-wants-get-von-miller-cleveland/?fbclid=IwAR13Xv8gs9n67625-SwzXQXnbRuBz2BflvIYaktu075NAXYmZMo49SZoBog

Based upon the CBA, we must now trade Von to CLE for a fifth rounder.

Northman
01-08-2019, 01:36 PM
Because great players don’t ever talk about playing with other great players?

No, because it wouldnt even come up if Elway had just said NO, we aint trading the guy. Lol

Northman
01-08-2019, 01:36 PM
Based upon the CBA, we must now trade Von to CLE for a fifth rounder.

Damn, i was hoping for a 7th.

Poet
01-08-2019, 01:42 PM
Why would the CBA give Myles so much power? Strange caveat, that.

Cugel
01-09-2019, 12:02 PM
I just can’t see Elway making a quarterback move (outside of the draft) this offseason because of how much they owe Keenum.

That's basically the problem. Keenum is due $21m if they keep him, and a dead cap hit of $10m if they don't (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/denver-broncos/case-keenum-10079/).

So, if they signed another veteran like Foles it would cost them somewhere close to $25m and now they're spending more money than Aaron Rogers gets for "not Aaron Rogers" level play.

Would Foles be any good in a new system with Denver's OL, and no TEs? Probably not.

Adam Schefter thinks they will keep both QBs and it makes sense: Why not? Foles is under contract for $20m right now, and Wentz is only earning $7. Unless someone is willing to offer them a 1st round pick, I don't see Foles moving anywhere.

CoachChaz
01-09-2019, 12:18 PM
The only move for a QB that makes sense in talent and money is a deal for Wentz. Yes...I know it won't happen...but if you dealt them a 1st rounder, Von and some other picks, you might get a deal done. Aside from that, nothing of any value will help. So...Keenum is our guy in 2019.

Elevation inc
01-09-2019, 01:37 PM
The only move for a QB that makes sense in talent and money is a deal for Wentz. Yes...I know it won't happen...but if you dealt them a 1st rounder, Von and some other picks, you might get a deal done. Aside from that, nothing of any value will help. So...Keenum is our guy in 2019.

I'm not sure why people are so shocked we will be going into next year with Case Keenum, from a financial standpoint it is the right call for the franchise. If we draft a couple guys smartly to develop and challenge and push him then we have a back-up option should he perform how he did for most of this year. That's what we lacked this year, most of us here feel that had chad Kelly not been a tool box he would have had his shot to start prior to our wins over Pitt, SD, and Cincy. Who knows how things would have gone there. Maybe we would have continued to lose or not. I think people discount how big the losses of sanders and Harris were as well.....